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Search Engines Take Their Time Disclosing Paid Links
An anonymous reader says "This CNN.com article talks about how most search engines have not disclosed the difference between a paid ad and an 'objective' result. The one exception of course is every geek's favorite search engine, Google. Once again, hooray for Google!"
We mentioned the FTCs Mandate
that search engines be clear about who's paying for what. Apparently
all the non-google engines are on vacation ;)
Are you worse off for it?
I have been pwned because my
nyeh nyeh
eleven plus two / twelve plus one
I've had a disappointing monday.
no pr0n at all!
Claim this FP with a pr0n. A good straight one!
-DFW - Banned!
404 File Not Found
The requested URL (articles/02/07/15/140226.shtml?tid=95) was not found.
If you feel like it, mail the url, and where ya came from to pater@slashdot.org.
5th post
It's not like they're required by law to do it.
Yet.
Beta sux! Join the Slashcott! http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4760465&cid=46173047
... of a law we just don't need. why does it take the FCC to mandate such a thing, let the market decide. Google is already the defacto search engine, not just because of its tech. but also because of the way it does ads and not being "sold out" as far as search placement goes. why does the government feel this kind of thing requires legislation? if people want a search engine which doesn't sell search result positions, they'll use one. if they don't care, they won't. what's the big freaking deal. save the legislative branch for getting rid of all the stupid laws, not passing new mandates.
MORTAR COMBAT!
is this really a suprise? part of the idea behind what some of the search engines have done with paid-for ads has been to keep the user unaware that they are being targeted. of course, if you are smart enough, you could probably pick the paid-for ads out of the list.
-jh
Teoma also distinguishes between paid/not paid
I have heard several people say that this FCC mandate is a good thing, yet often those same people talk about how governments can't and shouldn't regulate the internet. What is the difference between this and other forms of censorship? What is the difference between telling altavista that they must disclose paid links and telling somebody that they must put up a rating for "child protection" software.
How do you fuck over Slashdot? Fuck the sponsors. Take ThinkGeek.com, which sells massively overpriced items, sometimes 30-40% overpriced. For example the Cappuccino compact PC, currently selling for approx. $1040 plus shipping and handling. At pricewatch.com, the same item is listed for $749 + $15 shipping and handling.
The lesson here?
Don't buy anything at ThinkGeek, they are a ripoff!!!!
--JismTroll, once again posting at zero
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This here's google country. We don't need your kind.
Slashdot them out of buisness! Follow these instructions.!
Search on paid sites with terms like
bulk email
email marketing
opt in safe lists
and so on.
Click on all the paid links. Then do it once every 24 hours. If all the slashdotters do this then a tremoundus 'slashdot effect' will cost the spammers potentionally millions of dollars! Do it now! Spread the word!
I think that search engines really get users on credibility.
I know that with Google, I won't get popups, not too many banners, no porn ads.
More importantly, getting what you search for is important. I know with google, I can find anything almost, and their Cache and Translate features really help out. I know with confidence that Google will give me the results I want.
So, why are these other Engines killing their credibility by jumping on this bandwagon, and not telling the users what they are getting? Less people will use it, and the service will die.
In addition: Check out this.. It's google's beta of their answer service. Ask a question, and Pay for the answer. Kinda cool if you have a complex or hard to find problem.
Tibbon
tibbon.com
www.gewgle.com follows regulations as well... But then again, it just uses google's search :)
Well, the story link is taking forever to load, so while I wait to read it I tell you people bout the new search engine I found:
http://www.alltheweb.com
Not as fast as google here, but returned me some good links. It makes paid links go on a "sponsored links" session just like google.
Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
http://www.morroida.com.br
So, If a porn site pays enough money, the next time i search the words how-to linux I'll be bombarded with pictures of penguins in sex postions. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
First, you have to know, not fear, know that someday you are going to die
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- poopbot: for all your crapflooding needs
nbzPRQ4jwS
I will pay a moderator $20 to mod this up to 5, Insightful
But would you mod up this for money?
For I has decided that I would never use any other search engine than Google. I dont know what I would do if they go out of business (touch wood).
But seriously, I have never found any of the other search engines out there who could hold a candle to google.
Have you searched for anything on Ask Jeeves recently ?? All it does is split up your question and show you links based on each word. Terrific!
Its hightime they all decided to splurge some cash on them pigeons.
Rapid Nirvana
You would know that it is the FTC not the FCC, you cock.
Well, I was pretty sure that Teoma clearly labels the paid results at the top of their results pages, but when I went to confirm, there was no server there! I guess you're right-- they must be on vacation.
From my experience, there are three things that you will find no matter what you search (ok a few exceptions).
1) Linux (ya!!!!)
2) Sex (or porn, or something freaky like that)
3) Programming (or scripting, something technical based like that, but mainly programming)
Let's test it out. Whitehouse- porn. Imaging- linux, porn, programming. Games- programming, sex, linux. Etc...
Tibbon
tibbon.com
Search engines have been doing this behind the average surfer's back since search engines first came about. I remember when I was registering websites with a service that allowed you to register you site on almost every engine on the planet, you had a free option or a pay option. Since the business I was working for wanted to really get their e-business every advantage they could, we chose the pay option. Low and behold, for each of the keywords associated with the website, the business' website would be in the top five websites.
I don't know what the big deal is. This is so common in adveertising that it goes largely unnoticed by the average joe. Just look at your local yellow pages; do you really think that that pizza slut down the roaqd got that half page ad as a public service?
Why is it that everytime something like this makes it to the internet there is a major uproar, when it has existed in some other form in our society for what seems to be a long, long time...
Get over it, advertising on the internet is here to stay, and more and more creative forms will appear as the years go by, just like in any other media. If you don't like the advertising, that's fine, go ahead and move to china. Advertising is a huge part of the capitalist system and if you don't like it, as congress has pointed out through their actions time and time again, that's really too bad, you're just going to have to deal with it...
BTW this is TheBahxMan (A.K.A TweeKinDaBahx) posting anonymously because the slashteam has decided that fascism, rather than democracy, is now the law of the land. Thank you Adolf Hitler for all that you have taught us.
Yahoo, although it's format is more limited than Google, also distinguishes between their "sponsored" in the directory listing. However, a lot of the time, many of the top "sponsored" sites are the same that are in the "cool links" category. As a consumer, I'm happy if they just tell me that the search result is due to the fact that a company paid to camp on my keywords.
moc.elgoog.www
This whole "debate" ignores a basic truth about the web. Put simply, there is a whole lot of cr*p out there.
A few companies have put great, useful sites together (Amazon comes to mind...note they're one of the few sites to turn a profit...coincidence?). But for every gem you will find hundreds of ugly, useless pages designed by high school kids between games of Quake and rounds of marijuana smoking.
When I'm searching for something, one of the best ways to seperate the cream from the crop, as it were, is using a simple rule of thumb: if a site's owner is not willing to invest a few dollars to get it listed in the major search engines, then he has probably not put in enough effort to the site as a whole, and I shouldn't bother.
For this reason, I love Google. I always ignore the general results and go straight to the sponsors, who by definition have some confidence in their own worth. If a search engine were created that only listed paid advertisers, then it would replace Google, not only for myself, but for most sensible web users.
In short, this is nothing to get upset about. Search providers that list advertisers in their top search results are doing their users a favor, and should be celebrated with open arms.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
I still love google as well, but Teoma is decent and fast. Like Google, they don't shove banner ads down your throat, and the prominantly display sponsored links. They also have some cool unique features to refine your search to relavant areas, rather than you having to manually choose the narrowing keywords yourself. Give em a gander.
Is it fair to call yourself a search engine if you're really just an Ad database? What if a company offers their site as a search engine, but actually only retrieves relevant Advertisement-links frmo their own paid sponsor database, and never searches the rest of the web?
I think we need an official definition of 'Search Engine.' Just like a product can't be certified as "100% Grade-A Beef" without meeting some set standards of ingredients and production process, a 'search engine' should have to meet certain standards as well. Isn't it false advertising if they say they search the web but really search their own Ad databases?
For now, it'd be useful if each search engine had an About page which describes the type of search they do; be it a monthly crawl, a live search of popular sites or info services, free and paid submitted links, etc, or any combination.
The only question that should be debated in congress is where the responsibility lies for user-education, sort of a consumer responsibilty clause or free speech thing. Should the sites tell you, or should you figure it out yourself?
$8.95/mo web hosting
Where can i get a taco snotting?
He said, head over to slashdot and get moderated down to -1, if your a underage male taco will come over to your house.
If not, just wipe your nose with your cock when you ejaculate.
Paid moderation, I offer $15 for this to be moderated up to 5, insightful
Be Patriotic, Smoke Amerikan grown marijuana, not treasonous imports !!!!
Courtesy of About 420
Connotative Use/Meaning
420 is a phreak s (and not just a hippie s) favorite number for a
variety of reasons, or maybe for no reason at all, but colloquially
the number says pot -- let s smoke pot, or someone s smoking
pot, or gee, i really like pot, or time to smoke pot, either by
time (4:20 a.m. or p.m.), date (April 20th), or otherwise (e.g. State
Route 420). April 20th at 4:20 is marked by annual events in
Mount Tamalpais, CA (an informal gathering); Marin Conty, CA
(the 420 Hemp Fest); Ann Arbor, MI (the Hash Bash); and
Washington, D.C. (buildup towards the July 4th Smoke-In).
Original Source(s)
Conventional wisdom: The most common tale is that 420 is the
police radio code or criminal code (and therefore the police call)
in certain part(s) of California (e.g. in Los Angeles or San
Francisco) for having spotted someone consuming cannabis
publicly, i.e. pot smoking in progress; that local cannabis users
picked up on the code and began celebrating the number temporally
(esp. 4:20 a.m., 4:20 p.m., and April 20); that the number became
nationally popularized in the late 1980s and, more ferverently, in
the early- to mid-1990s; and is colloquially applied to a variety of
relaxed and/or inspired contexts, including not only pot
consumption but also a good time more generally (in contrast to
the drug war surrounding).
Conventions are legends: 420 is not police radio code for
anything, anywhere. Checks of criminal codes (including those of
the City of San Francisco, the City of Los Angeles, Los Angeles
County, the State of California, and the federal penal code) suggest
that the origin is neither Californian nor federal (the two best
guesses). For instance, California Penal Code 420 defines as a
misdemeanor the hindrance of use (obstructing entry) of public
lands, and California Family Code 420 defines what constitutes a
wedding ceremony (Marco). One state does come close: The
Illinois Department of Revenue classifies the Alcoholic Liquor Act
under Part 420, and the Cannabis and Controlled Substances Tax
Act are next, under Part 428. (RB 5/19/99)
True story?: According to Steven Hager, editor of High Times,
the term 420 originated at San Rafael High School, in 1971,
among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres who
called themselves the Waldos. The term 420 was shorthand for the
time of day the group would meet, at the campus statue of Louis
Pasteur, to smoke pot. ``Waldo Steve, a member of the group who
now owns a business in San Francisco, says the Waldos would
salute each other in the school hallway and say ``420 Louis! The
term was one of many invented by the group, but it was the one
that caught on. ``It was just a joke, but it came to mean all kinds of
things, like `Do you have any? or `Do I look stoned? he said.
``Parents and teachers wouldn t know what we were talking about.
The term took root, and flourished, and spread beyond San Rafael
with the assistance of the Grateful Dead and their dedicated cohort
of pot-smoking fans. The Waldos decided to assert their claim to
the history of the term after decades of watching it spread, mutate
and be appropriated by commercial interests. The Waldos contacted
Hager, and presented him with evidence of 420 s history, primarily
a collection of postmarked letters from the early 70s with lots of
mention of 420. They also started a Web site, waldo420.com. ``We
have proof, we were the first, Waldo Steve said. ``I mean, it s not
like we wrote a book or invented anything. We just came up with a
phrase. But it s kind of an honor that this emanated from San
Rafael. Maria Alicia Gaura for the San Francisco Chronicle,
4/20/00 p. A19; and thanks to Noah Cole for the submission
Alternate explanations
There are a variety of other explanations, all much more interesting
than police code, and many plausible. Some are more likely uses
of the 420/hemp connection rather than sources of it, such as the
score for the football game in Fast Times at Ridgement High,
42-0.
Known Myths: It isn t police code (see above). There are 315
chemicals in marijuana, not 420. And although tea time in
Amsterdam is rumored to be 4:20, it is actually 5:30 (Gerhard
den Hollander).
Sixties Songs: For instance, Bob Dylan s famous Rainy Day
Women #12 and 35 is a possible reference, or source --
12x35=420. And Stephen Stills wrote (and Crosby Stills Nash
& Young performed) a song 4+20 (first recorded 7/16/69,
released on Deja Vu 3/11/70) about an 84-year-old
poverty-stricken man who started and finished with nothing.
(Thanks to Sherry Keel 12/6/98.) Dylan aslo mentions 4 and
20 windows in The Balland of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest
(on John Wesley Harding).
Older Verse: But 420 in poetry is older than that - Greg
Keller notes the old nursery rhyme line, four and twenty
black birds baked in a pie. Revelation 5:14 (in the King
James Version of the Christian Bible) reads, And the four
beasts said A-Men. And the four and twenty elders fell down
and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. (Travis
Spurley 2/15/99) And in Midnight s_Children, Salman
Rushdie wrote, Inevitably, a number of these children failed
to survive. Malnutrition, disease and the misfortunes of
everyday life had accounted for no less than four hundred and
twenty of them by the time I became conscious of their
existence; although it is possible to hypothesize that these
deaths, too, had their purpose, since 420 has been, since time
immemorial, the number associated with fraud, deception and
trickery. (Comet 2/14/98) Comet s best guess is that this
refers to something in Indian mythology or numerology, since
the book is set in India and frequently involves Indian history,
culture, and religion. Given the high interest in Eastern
religion among the phish/dead community, this seems a likely
origin of 420 s current significance.
Temporal Significance: Hands on analog clock at 4:20 look
like position of doobie dangling from mouth Larry in
Tuscan and Alex Mack 5/19/99). Disruptive students are out
of detention and safetly away from school by 4:20, also
rumored to be the time that you should dose to be peaking
when the Dead went on stage Hart. The Waldos were a
group of teens back in the 70 s that lived in San Rafael, CA.
420 was the way they talked about pot in front of teachers,
non-smoking family members etc. Also it was the time of day
they could just go relax, and get baked. (PhunkCellar)
Jamaicans purportedly worked till 4 then walked home then
lit up. They would talk 420 like our parents talked about after
5. That s when partying began Larry in Tuscan). Albert (not
Abbie) Hofmann supposedly first encountered LSD at 4:20
p.m. on 4/19/1943 (Bart Coleman citing Storming Heaven by
Jay Stevens, recommended by Mickey Hart in Planet Drum).
Surrealist painter Miro was born April 20, 1893. And
www.filmspeed.com says the propoganda film Reefer
Madness has a copyright date of April 20, 1936 (i.e. 4/20).
(Patrick Woolford)
Misc: Could be that it comes from hydroponics, the practice
of cultivating plants in water often used by indoor marijuana
cultivators, since 4 is used for H on a calculator (420/H20).
(Nick Lowe 3/30/00) The number 80 (eight) is quatre vingt
(pronounced cah-truh vahn), meaning four (times} twenty.
Dan Nijjar 1/27/00 (No connection yet between the number
80 and pot. A quarter pound is roughly 120 grams, rounding
quarter-ounces to 7.5.) The titanic was supposed to arrive
4/20/1912. (Thanks to RB.) Perhaps the heavy use of vt420
terminals in the Berkeley area is to blame? (BTW, 420 in
binary code is 110100100.)
Ubiquitous?
Now there s a 420 Pale Ale. One of the late-97/early-98 Got
Milk ads featured a character eating cookies without milk and
then passing a sign that reads Next Rest Area 420 miles (as Ross
Bruning). Reportedly, all of the clocks in the movie Pulp Fiction
are stuck on 4:20. Shirts with the number 420 on the red-and-blue
interstate highway shield (Interstate 420?) have show up on the
sitcom Will and Grace (Paul Risenhoover 5/14/99) and in several
videos. UPS labelling software has a 420 postal code legend for
next-day/2-day deliveries (which is how Phish tickets are sent).
(Jack Lebowitz 10/3/98) MTV s 1997 Viewer s Choice Award (for
the MTV Video Awards) was decided by calls to
1-800-420-4MTV. And by May of 1998, the number was
appearing in so many ads (eg Copenhagen 5/14/98 Rolling Stone
p54, Corvette p55 5/98 Car & Driver) that its presence is
presumed to be intentional. Many songs are around 4 minutes 20
seconds long (since many songs fall between 2:30 and 5:30),
including for example Pink Floyd s A Great Day for Freedom (on
The Division Bell, 1994), the Foo Fighters My Hero, and
Smokin from Boston s first album. There have also been some
420 references on The Simpsons. In the re-run episode aired on
April 20th, 1999 at a special time (probably in honor of those
college students staying in the holiday spirit
Flanders that Barney s birthday is April 20th. Also, the jackpot sign
in one part of the casino says $420,000. There are a couple less
concrete ones, but these two have to be legit, especially since they
decided to air THAT particular episode on 4/20/99. (Submitted by
Matt Meehan 4/21/99) And (as of Fall 99) the 60 free minutes that
Working Assets Long Distance offers, at the 7 cents per minute
rate, is $4.20 free. There s even a band named 420, and another
names . In the first fifteen pages of Karel Capek s novel War with
the Newts, a man diving under wonder stayed down for four
minutes and twenty seconds. Grant Garstka 1/6/00 At the
suggested retail price ($3.96) and Michigan (6%) sales tax, a deck
of Uno cards costs $4.20. Nic Boris 4:20 marks the first downbeat
of the drums in Led Zeppelin s epic Stairway to Heaven. (Dan
Harris) The bill authorizing force after the World Trade Center
attacks of 9/11/01 passed 420 to 1, and news reports in following
months noted many times that there are (or were then, anyway) 420
airports in the U.S. Allan Morris And don t forget that Adolf Hitler
was born on April 20, macabely celebrated (or at least
referenced) via the Columbine High School shootings.
Phish-related Occurances
Whatever the origin, the number appears frequently... For the
summer 1997 tour, TicketMaster service charges were $4.20. In
the Fall 1997 Doniac Schvice Dry Goods section, a limited edition
Pollack poster printed on 100% hemp is order number 420P. The
Great Went was 420 miles from Boston (former home of Phish).
The official logo includes 4 gills and 20 bubbles (Gringo
11/12/98). As of 6/15/97, including covers and originals, Phish
had performed a total of 420 songs (thought its 486 by 4/24/98).
(David Steinberg). Lawnboy is 420megs of memory. Patrick
Walker Phish s The Vibration of Life underlies a whirling loop
with Seven Beats per second (which makes 420 beats per minute.)
Trey has used the altered line woke up at 4:20 in Makisupa
Policeman, which also often indirectly celebrates 420ing, e.g. by
mention of goo balls. One of the funniest shirts around takes light
jabs at both the 4:20 phenomenon and the rumored evolution
(collapse?) of the Phish.Net (especially rec.music.phish) from
being Gamehendge to Flamehendge, and beyond. The first day of
the Great Went started at 4:20 (with Makisupa Policeman. (The
second day started late, at 4:37.) Noah Cole The first single from
Slip Stitch and Pass was played on WBCN 10/14/97 at 4:20 pm.
An uproar at 12/31/96 can be heard on tape during the 2001, in
response to an enormous digital clock (which was counting down
to midnight) reaching 11:55:40 and reading -4:20. (Yoda)
During the 9-12-00 2001, Trey hits the first riff right at 4:20 into
the intro jam. (Cal 2/25/01) Some mail order tickets for the 1997
New Year s run were in section 420. The first Mass Pike toll
leaving Oswego was $4.20. (Camille Heath ) And the standard
shipping for The Phish Companion through Amazon was
originally $4.20.
420 Shows: Phish performed on April 20 in 1989, 1990, 1991,
1993, and 1994. The first day of the Great Went started at 4:20,
although that was called a soundcheck by Trey after three songs.
The Jazzfest Harry Hood 4-26-96 started at about 4:20 reported by
Trevor. At Big Cypress, David Bowie was playing at 4:20 a.m.
And the one event during the hiatus (10/8/00 - ?) featuring all
four members - for Jason Colton s wedding - was 12/1/01, 420
from: http://www.phish.net/faq/n420.html:
Here is a snip from an article just written called Google's Integrity:
"This means that with PageRank-sorted results, to be better linked is more important than to contain the search therms -- even though the search therms ultimately have to be there.
"A hypothetical high-PageRank page that contained the most popular search therms in the title could appear very often in the top 10 pages. We might call this a catch-all page.
"This is significant because a badly linked page, perhaps a new page, might be popular within the community of pages with the same topic, but eclipsed by the score of an extremely well linked page (linked from pages not containing the word) that also happens to contain the word."
Read more...
How to Download YouTube Videos
There's search engines other then google? That's news to me.
You mean other search engines besides Google still exist? I have been using Google for so long I can't remember the last time I used another.
heck.... a lot of my forum posts on various boards are "Google it" when a poster asks a simple question.
- HeXa
Pretty much. Yahoo is a distant second from the last polls I saw. Kinda makes me a bit worried that we have all our eggs in one basket, but I think this and most other of their actions have shown them to be worthy of our trust.
For now.
Although some people have trully altruistic motivations to do things for free (such as GPL'd software) everybody requires at least some kind of income in order to survive and have time to develop and offer free software/search engines/whatever... If you are getting pertinent results, even if they are a bit skewed due to payed "links , you are still beter off than searching for a site unaided. It hasn't bothered me at all. After all it's a business, just like any other, or would people prefer subscription based search engines?
please excuse my apathy
Damn, everything they do is awesome. Have they ever been evil at all?
I mean when you search for something like "decorrelated linear transform" and get the first 10 links to volvo/gm/ford/toyota and that stupid X-cam thingy you can be fairly certain they are doctored results.
If the search engine you use doesn't return real links, guess what, just guess, oh common guess,
USE A DIFFERENT SEARCH ENGINE!
There are plenty out there [hint: you can probably do a search for them!]
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
You're telling me that search engines get paid to list certain sites higher than others? All these places that have no revenue other than advertisements are doing this and have been all along? Whoooooaaaaaa...I smell a Microsoft conspiracy.
Never argue with a man carrying a water buffalo
"The Palladium was a famous theater in London and another in Hollywood, and the name choice makes more and more sense to me as the story develops about Microsoft's computer security initiative of the same name. It certainly felt like theater, for example, when I received this week a very careful message on the subject from inside Microsoft. It's rare that I hear from any of the troops in Redmond, and the writer's message is an interesting one that made me think a lot -- not just about Palladium, but about the whole power structure behind the protection of intellectual property rights and just where Microsoft fits in. Frankly, I think we're being played for fools. The message follows (with my addition of capital letters where needed).
As a long time reader and watcher, I've always respected your insight. But you should know that you're pretty far off the mark with your recent Palladium commentary. It's basically content creator (be that ISV or copyright holder) driven only, and Microsoft only provides the infrastructure to let that happen. Obviously, I cannot comment on internal issues, but this public interview sums it up pretty accurately [cites a URL that you'll find is the first "I Like It!" entry this week]. Especially the following (an interview with Palladium product manager Mario Juarez published in Digital ID World):......
But hey, this is just Microsoft you say. Microsoft doesn't envision anything so diabolical. And I agree with that statement simply because I don't see Microsoft as a company having much vision at all. That's why it is possible for Palladium to be devised exactly as Mr. Juarez says, from the bottom up for purely altruistic reasons. In fact, I am sure that is how it happened. But then one day somebody near the top of Microsoft realized that what they had was a way of taxing the world, and suddenly, Palladium became strategic for Microsoft.
Now maybe I am a crackpot. And if I am, then you'll be able to take apart everything I have just written, point by point, showing how crazy it is. Please do. I'm waiting.
And I'm still waiting.
As a footnote here, I did a Google search on my writer from Microsoft, and found that he had submitted comments to the Department of Justice asking that Microsoft be dealt with leniently in the penalty phase of the current anti-trust trial. While the writer described himself to the DOJ as an "entrepreneur," he did not identify himself as a Microsoft employee. How entrepreneurial of him! I wonder how many of the positive comments received by the DOJ came from such closeted Microsoft people?
Now back to Palladium. One aspect of this story that really amazes me is the role of the recording, broadcasting, and film industries, which are accorded far more prestige than I think they deserve or that they would receive from Microsoft on a normal day. This is a company, remember, that is consistently acused of stealing intellectual property and has been found guilty of doing so. There is no respect for intellectual property rights that I can see there. Beyond Bill Gates's extensive video collection of Audrey Hepburn movies, I don't think the movie business makes much difference to Microsoft. It's all about the money."
see also: the horrors of becoming involved in some phony payper stock markup bookFUDging FraUDs, & ill eagle hostage ransom liesense scams
see also: VA Lairy et AL
Speaking of Google, did anybody else see an ad on Slashdot linking to the Google Appliance. It seems like Google is trying to figure out a way to actually make money. Shocking!
But even here Google shines. No graphics, and NO BLINKING...argh. I don't know if one can praise Google enough.
I'm not surprised at all. If I can't find what I'm looking for in Google I assume its not there or I need to be more specific. With yahoo, unless what you are looking for has its own term-matching domain name, the whole first page is paid. If you hang out on the internet long enough, you can catch the "append search term - lather - repeat" links pretty easy.
Knowing that google is the best out there, why do other users continue to use services like Yahoo and MSN search? Why subject themselves to the pain of never finding what you are looking for?
The answer: business. How many portals and default home pages send you to a paying search site unless you explicitly change the setting? How many searches does MSN get out of the new versions of IE by default?
They exploit us geeks!
Apparently all the non-google engines are on vacation ;)
You mean there are other search engines?!
--
I've had to create 4 new accounts trying to avoid karma... dammit!
"Apparently all the non-google engines are on vacation"
I'm assuming you mean "engineers?" (Of course, the engines may as well go on vacation, too. It's not like anyone actually uses AltaVista/Yahoo/etc.)
Berry and Browne (computer science, U. of Tennessee) discuss key design issues in information retrieval about which their computer science peers and mathematicians may be clueless, yet have much to offer. Details of computational methods for automated indexing are relegated to sidebars, so as not to intimidate those who have not ventured beyond introductory level calculus and algebra. Annotates suggested further readings in addition to the bibliography. SIAM is the Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics.
Come on, I dare ya!
It's the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission not the FCC (Federal Communications Commission).
The FTC handles trade, commerce, tariffs, advertising and business practices.
The FCC handles radio & telephone communications policies, standards and practices.
Beta sux! Join the Slashcott! http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4760465&cid=46173047
its amazing what running an honest business can do for you (Google), which just happens to work out nicely in the current market... hmm.. I wonder if others will catch on
Jesus saves souls and redeems them for valuable cash prizes
Wouldn't it be even more worrying if the reverse happened. If a search engine was paid to NOT display certain links? The internet is supposed to be this free haven of information, but the only way to find anything is through someone elses search engine, most of wich apparantly for money are willing to be selective in their searches.
Just how much would bill pay to have a links to bug tracking lists sorted at the bottom?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
This is the old question of doing business with Integrity. It looks like for many companies it is more efficient to spend marketing dollars on building a good image while maintaining business practices which would shame a used car salesman.
... and is currently the number one in the world of web search engines.
On the other hand, Google builds their entire model on integrity...
- Indicated paid links
- Ad words shown are based on user's interest
- The main service, fast and accurate web search, remains #1 priority and revenue model is built as a helpful supplement to rather than an obstacle to meaningful results.
Meanwhile statistics show that users close pop up windows before they load, and almost never click on ad banners.
For once, statistics are correct.
We'll all be doomed if the rumors of Yahoo buying Google (last paragraph) turn out to be true!
Just go to lycos.com an type palm.
You will see:
SPONSORED SEARCH LISTINGS (i) MORE
1. Buy Handheld Palms Online at Dell.com - Dell4me is your online superstore for PDAs. Our products are organized into easy-to-find categories so you can save time and money. Dell -
now wouldn't that be a new low
we can rebuild this sig. we have the technology
"It's important for people to know whether or not their search results are being bought by big business," said Gary Ruskin, the group's executive director.
how is this harming consumers? the very notion of profit is evil to these people.
I agree ideally integrity should/will lead to long term success and stability. Many corporations have build substantial businesses by making a good quality product year after year. That is where I invest my money BTW.
However when company execs can make a fortune quickly by hyping stock and making good quarterly returns they do. Why slog away year after year and have a good stable business, when you can make just as much in a few years bending the rules and acting irresponsibly?
Here comes the flood!
Of course, the amusing thing is that according to the previous story, "The FTC said it will send the letter to AltaVista, AOL Time Warner, Direct Hit Technologies, iWon, LookSmart, Microsoft and Terra Lycos." That means that Google never got a letter telling them to comply. Of course, they already complied anyway.
What?
In the last few weeks I've noticed a disturbing trend when using google. I'll search for something using keywords, and the page that google spits back is 50% full of links to third-tier sites that read "Advance search for [your keywords]". If you go to those pages they are full of ads and do not have the information you're looking for. It looks like someone found an unfortunately effective way to poison google's results.
don't get me wrong, i find them to be a fairly decent company, but i'm waiting to get an email saying my books aren't going to ship unless i pay an extra $1,000,000,000 S&H fee
Check out Google Labs.. ./ the voice search.
It's got some pretty cool things, but let's not
Tibbon
tibbon.com
indeed
Dear moderator: Please be gentle.
(standard disclaimer, flamebait, karma to burn, yadda yadda...)
The yellow pages (commercial phone directories) have been doing this since forever. If you want a big ad for your business in the directory that everyone uses to look up businesses in their area, you pay for it. Pay for your listing - people see it. Why should search engines be any different? They're not public services, they're businesses. This isn't 1995, when altavista was just some research project or something. People need search engines, companies provide the service, and they have to pay for it somehow. I don't see the problem.
That being said, Google kicks ass, and I'd love to see more companies use their model, or at least their sense of utility and aesthetics.
Bush: Economy Hung Over, Basically Sound
..
Mon 12:36pm ET
President Bush said on Monday the U.S. economy was suffering from a "hangover" after a 1990s "economic binge" but was fundamentally strong despite the slide in stocks to nearly five-year lows...
Bush May Shatter Fund-Raising Record
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) -- President Bush was on track to demolish his own record for a single fund-raising appearance today, drawing $4 million for Alabama's financially lagging Republican gubernatorial candidate, Rep. Bob Riley. Bush also traveled here to talk about corporate responsibility; Corporations can donate to political candidates in Alabama, a practice that is against federal law.
now witch is IT george. we're broke? or just most of US? not you, or ill eagle father william, write?
thanks for your support encouragemeNT, butt eye voted for the other guise
It's nice that the FTC mandated distinguishing paid results from metasearches, but the worst problems with search engines are phony metatags. Frequently searching for CDs, MP3, Music, or anything other than porn brings back a porn site at the top of results. It's deception. I could mention an offender which I got delisted by writing letters, but that would only give them free advertising. The FTC should treat use of phony metatags an act of fraud, and respond accordingly.
The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
No, it doesn't. Most of you will get tired of it. Serves you right, for criticizing us, who always chose to troll as Anonymous Cowards.
a) The biggest problem by SE's has been over looked. That is Inktomi, Fast, AskJeeves/Teoma, and Altavista "paid inclusion" or the cloaked "trusted feeds" where pages are paid for to be in the database. There is no disclosure to the public, that the link they are clicking on has been paid for to be in the database. b) Google Take another look. Adwords boxes on the right are easily id'd as advertising. However, the Top Premimum sponsors are very difficult to determine that they are paid advertisements. I think it is more difficult for a user to determine that those are ads than any of the other current search engines. The word "sponsor" is at the right over top of the Adwords boxes and looks like the column header over there. It's a trick ad. Just because the color is different is no indication to the user that the link is paid for. In fact, the color makes people think the se has returned them and colored them because they are highest ranked. Googles premium sponsor is the most obfuscated one on the net and the worst of any of the current search engines.
Lately using Google I've been more annoyed to find advertisements at the top of the results list when I have been searching for a quoted string.
Try searching for the following quoted string: "building your own electric car"
and the first link returned today is for autoweb.com. Now, if Autoweb had a resources for building an electric car I would have no problem with their paid ad showing up. Hell, make it first on the list and make animated arrows to it if you like.
BUT you see, autoweb has nothing on the page about ELECTRIC cars, much less about BUILDING a car of any type. No, all they have is a paid advert that hits on the word CAR.
Come to think of it (yep) I just tried "Baby you can drive my car" and there they were. Top-o-the list.
Here's more; you can't even defeat the advert buy specifically trying to exclude the ad by "-buy" or even "-autoweb".
Please GOOGLE gods, return to the good old days where a quoted string only returns sites that have the entire quoted string.
I just checked All the Web and Yahoo and they have sponsored links. So maybe it is more than just Google doing this.
I've just recently listed my company on google's Ad Words Select, and personally - I prefer to have google list us as a sponsored link.
The clarification that we are paying to be there encourages click-through's from people *looking* for products & information rather than free-information.
Otherwise, we would be paying for clickthrough's from people that really don't want to see our stuff ; and that's just bad for everybody.
Annoying people with results they don't want can only be bad for business.
Ace
Google is profitable. They earn half their money from ads and whatnot, half from licensing with corporations.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. There are other search engines besides Google? Why?
-Valiss
One of the big problems with slashdot creaming over google all the time (such as dismissing alltheweb's crawl size) is that Google pays for banners on slashdot. Do we have a conflict of interest?
It looks to me like all of Google's normal results are perfectly relevent. It's not their fault if Autoweb wants to advertise themselves under "car", and they wind up showing irrelevent adds. It's Autoweb's fault for not picking more detailed keywords.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
You're not searching for ads, you're searching for content, who cares what ads you get.
Reading Yahoo!'s statement regarding their "sponsored links", it actually shows that it's quite limited. For your site to be listed, you have to already be listed in Business & Economy, clearly show who you are, have your site in English, no 404's or irrelevant links and should be visible by all web browsers. So, in reality, you're just paying to have your site listed at the top. Just looking at the criteria, most of the criteria ensure that the sites themselves are well designed and not deceptive, so in this case, this could actually help consumers. Read the fine print here.
Obligatory cache of page, just in case.
Tim ODonnell (trying to be the most
I want to know which of those yellow page entries are paid for, damnit!
Perfectly relevant? Not hardly.
When I say I only want results matching the exact phrase "building your own electric car" then only give me those results which contain the *exact* phrase. Vendors meeting those specifications are welcome, but just matching on one word is very bad.
Google giving me a match for just CAR out of that phrase is nearly the equivalant of them giving me an advertisement for a Cheese vendor. After all, some people who "build their own electric car" might also "eat cheese".
Supply and demand will take hold here as people going to a search site get frustrated with paid, un-identified links, and take their "business" elsewhere. Make no mistake of it, you are a customer when on any web page, and if you don't get what you want, go elsewhere!(Or just go to google)
This is a good idea they are chasing.
Any idea, though, what happens with answered questions? If I paid for the research to be done, someone else shouldn't be able to get it for free.
It somewhat reminds me of "The Circuit" from the Greg Mendel trilogy.
The difference here is the asker sets the price.
I think this service could have more merit if there was some kind of feedback mechanism, or a bid/ask type mechanism.
I could see a question I know how to answer, but I'm sure not going to do it for the $5 the people ask. Researchers should have to compete for answers, and then someone should correlate it all and make sure everyone gets paid.
Why the -1? The AC was just trying to make a humorous comment.