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Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 Released
emissary47 writes "The Debian Project is pleased to announce the release of Debian GNU/Linux version 3.0. Debian GNU/Linux is a free operating system, which now supports a total of eleven processor architectures, includes KDE and GNOME desktop environments, features cryptographic software, is compatible with the FHS v2.2 and supports software developed for the LSB. The Release Notes are available here."
In other news... Hell has frozen over, pigs are flying, and the Chicago Cubs have won the World Series.
Can any of the Debian insiders comment on what the future of Debian looks like?
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
I can't wait 'till Debian releases a stable version of Debian GNU/HURD ;)=
c0w goes moo.
Uhh, we did tell them. In the announcement.
It is official, woody is released.
Please stop trolling. Check out these links if your mom and dad haven't already pulled the plug:
0 02 /debian-devel-announce-200207/msg00011.html: //www.debian.org/News/2002/20020719e bian.org/releases/woody/releasenotes
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2
http
http://www.d
Debian appears to me to be very well thought out in comparison to other distributions. Everything seems to be done in a calm reasonable manner with the exception of my constant kick/banning from #debian on openprojects. Other distributions may throw in candy for the kiddies that is not ready but debian waits and in turn creates quality. Please discuss.. I cant wait for gnome2 to leave experimental and hit sid. Jonathan Taylor
Can't you kids do a proper slashdotting these days? It won't work unless we all pull together!
Carousel is a lie!
I like the balance of distos. Some like Redhat allow you to try the latest and greatest, while Debian goes for the tried and tested. Linux has a distro for everyone!! This is consumer choise, where it proves that you don't need to be upgrading every year to boost MS's profits while subjecting you as a beta tester for a "final release."
OK, this may be a Stupid Question, but, the announcement said that, "As always, Debian GNU/Linux systems can be upgraded painlessly, in place, without any forced downtime."
How do you upgrade the kernel without a reboot?
There are numerous reasons why KDE 3, Xfree86 4.2, Gnome 2, Openoffice, Mplayer, et al are not ready for Debian primetime. They are all outlined in the developer mailing lists, if you bothered to read them, and most stem from the fact that Debian developers do not release software that only builds on i386 or with certain 'golden' compiler releases.
In the meantime, installing from unofficial sources takes no more effort than adding lines to your apt sources.list. This information can be found at http://www.debianplanet.org if you were so inclined to look.
One of the problems is that Debian stable has to run on many different architechtures and XFree 4.2 doesn't yet run on all of them.
8 days ago, it will be the biggest birthday present for me. What makes me almost cry is, a Debian mirror I maintain can't join this celebration due to hardware error :(
(because it's getting Slashdotted like mad)
The Debian Project is pleased to announce the release of Debian GNU/Linux version 3.0. Debian GNU/Linux is a free operating system, which now supports a total of eleven processor architectures, includes KDE and GNOME desktop environments, features cryptographic software, is compatible with the FHS v2.2 and supports software developed for the LSB.
With the addition of the IA-64 (ia64), HP PA-RISC (hppa), MIPS (mips, mipsel), and S/390 (s390) architectures, Debian GNU/Linux now supports a total of eleven architectures. It now runs on computers ranging from palmtops to supercomputers, and nearly everything in between, including the latest generation of 64 bit machines.
This is the first version of Debian to feature cryptographic software integrated into the main distribution. OpenSSH and GNU Privacy Guard are included in the default installation, and strong encryption is now present in web browsers and web servers, databases, and so forth. Further integration of cryptographic software is planned for future releases.
For the first time, Debian comes with the K Desktop Environment 2.2 (KDE). The GNOME desktop environment is upgraded to version 1.4, and X itself is upgraded to the much improved XFree86 4.1. With the addition of several full-featured free graphical web browsers in the form of Mozilla, Galeon, and Konqueror, Debian's desktop offerings have radically improved.
This version of Debian supports the 2.2 and 2.4 releases of the Linux kernel. Along with better support for a greater variety of new hardware (such as USB) and significant improvements in usability and stability, the 2.4 kernel provides support for the ext3 and reiserfs journaling filesystems.
Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 features a more streamlined and polished installation, which is translated into numerous languages. The task system has been revamped and made more flexible. The debconf tool makes configuration of the system easier and more user friendly. Debian GNU/Linux can be installed from CD, or from the network and a few floppies. It can be downloaded now, and will soon be available on CD-ROM from numerous vendors.
Upgrades to Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 from earlier releases are automatically handled by the apt package management tool. As always, Debian GNU/Linux systems can be upgraded painlessly, in place, without any forced downtime. For detailed instructions about installing and upgrading Debian GNU/Linux, please see the release notes.
This is the first release of Debian that is compatible with version 2.2 of the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard (FHS). Debian GNU/Linux now also supports software developed for the Linux Standard Base (LSB), though it is not yet LSB certified.
Current Debian users may be interested to know that this release of Debian supports build dependencies, to aid in building packages from source, and apt pinning, to ease partial upgrades to our testing or unstable branch. This release of Debian features aptitude as an alternative for the venerable dselect program, which will make it easier to select packages. About four thousand new software packages were added to the distribution in Debian GNU/Linux 3.0.
To make a pun demonstrates the highest understanding of a language
Add these to your sources.list and be thankful for all the good things Debian _has_ that other distributions _don't_. ;)
deb http://kde3.geniussystems.net/debian ./ ./
deb-src http://kde3.geniussystems.net/debian
niko
Obviously you are a moron. I should leave it at that but I will defend debian so that others will not be turned off to the best distro because of the incredibly small size of your pen.. cough intellect. The reason for this is because gnome2, kde3 are not ready to be in a linux distro... Watch a mailing list and watch the bug reports... that stuff crashes often.. Are we microsoft? I think not. The debian ppl want there base to be stable. Thats why when you install woody (Debian 3) you are installing the stable version of debian. There is also Sarge(testing) that has newer stuff that has proven to be pretty stable and Sid(unstable) which I am running which has the newest stuff. Before you bash it try it and figure out what is offered by the Debian Project in a whole not just the release of this version. Jonathan Taylor
I have been working with a variety of distributions out there and have come to the conclusion that, if you want it to work and work well, the Debian is probably the most trusted distribution out there. If you want bells and whistles, then you need to go someplace else.
On thing I have to mention here. If Debian merged with GenTOO, then there would be no stopping them! Optimal package compiles coupled with the best package management system AND the BEST PACKAGE MANAGERS out there. Now that would be cool!
I have to hand it to the Debian folks. They have an excellent policy that puts quality and reliability in front of everything else. I can trust this distribution to work on machines that I can't even access directly.
And when I see how many of our customers are still running solaris 2.6 and 2.7, Debian release times just don't worry me anymore...
Try NetBSD... safe,straightforward,useful.
Considering the name "Debian" came from "Deb" and "Ian", I'm of the opinion that it should be pronounced as such. "Dehb-ee-un". Then again, we may just be wading into Holy War territory, like "Li-nucks" vs. "Lie-nucks" vs "Lee-nucks" (who actually says the last?).
It's deh, like Deborah.
"Debian GNU/Linux systems can be upgraded painlessly, in place, without any forced downtime." How do you upgrade the kernel without a reboot?
Reboot != downtime. If you're running a high-availability server cluster, you can bring your spare machine up and have it do the job of each server in your rack until you upgrade your cluster to Debian 3. If you're running a workstation, reboot your machine over coffee break, or pull out your Game Boy Advance and play Tetanus On Drugs. Otherwise, I don't think a reboot at 3 A.M. California time is going to affect many users, especially if planned a week in advance.
Will I retire or break 10K?
- Vorbis 1.0
- Perl 5.8.0
...and now Debian 3.0
REPENT, REPENT, THE END IS NIGH!News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
What is this sarge (testing) directory in ftp debian/dists directory. :)
Pixels keep you awake!
Debian 3.0 Woody comes with KDE 2 and XFree86 4.1 while 3 and 4.2 are out respectively. This is a bit sad, seeing that even CygWin and FreeBSD have more up-to-date versions in their releases.
Release processes do take time, and Debian woody's started long before KDE3 or XFree86 4.2 were released. It is not the policy of the Debian team to drop everything mid-release-prep and package the latest version of some package, regardless of how significant it may be. If that was the case, releases would take a great deal more time.
If you want to see the process go faster, feel free to step up and help out.
Since you're posting this sort of troll, you probably already know the truth of things, but in case you don't, I'll fill you in.
Debian GNU/Linux releases for 11 architectures, and aims to stable on all of them. Most distros concentrate on one or two (gentoo is no exception), and those one or two tend to be x86 and if you're lucky PPC. They also tend to cater to people that are in the latest-greatest-p6-123123MHz-gamer crowd.
It's important to realize that with Debian, users of non-standard architectures are not second class citizens like they are on other distros. If I install Debian Stable on a machine that Debian claims to support, I can be relatively sure that the system will run smoothly and without issue. This is much more than any other distro out there can say.
When you say that XF4.2 and KDE3 are stable, you mean they are stable on the intel architecture, something no one debates. But being stable on intel is useless to the Debian release crew if it doesn't compile on Alpha, SPARC, HPPA, and any of the other supported architectures.
Another thing that non-Debian users seem to have a very hard time with is the notion of Stable, Testing, and Unstable. When you use some other linux distro, a release is very important because the lack of a central repository and coordination of packages makes partial upgrades a royal pain in the butt. This is fondly called RPM hell. Actually, it has nothing to do with the RPM package format, which isn't really that much worse than the DEB format, but rather the way APT handles package dependencies and such.
A Debian user can keep his system up to date over a reasonable net connection, and I'd venture that most desktop debian users don't much care when something releases, because they don't track stable. Because stable needs to be stable on 11 architectures, it is nearly always behind -- but it's as stable as a rock. If you run x86 and want the lastest version of everything, stable is not for you. In that case, it doesn't matter when Debian releases.
If you're a newbie, track testing, because it's more stable than unstable but has a lot of pretty new packages. If you're adventurous and want the bleeding edge, track unstable. Despite its name, it's still more stable than say, Mandrake.
Hopefully, you're less ignorant now than you were before. If not, then you're beyond help.
that's why there's stable, testing and unstable.
I am currently not obliged to divulge that information as it might compromise the agents in the field
They're trying to make their traffic less bursty
by maximizing the number of people who are too
busy to upgrade tonight.
Yes, we have no girlfriends because we enjoy messing with computers. But those people who choose a different hobby, like cars, skateboarding, or reading books have women waiting in line, right?
What does it matter what my hobby is? What matters is how you prioritize.
Guys with families mess with computers, but given a choice between paying for an anniversary gift and buying the latest phatness in computer gaming, most of them would choose the earlier.
Ok, I'm responding to a Troll, but I think this is the attitude of a lot of people here who aren't into everything posted here.
Releasing a peice of software on a friday afternoon, and we all celebrate. This is pretty geeky. [snip] Good call, Debian! Clearly NONE OF YOU GUYS HAVE GIRL FRIENDS. geeeeeze.
;)
/m
Why are you posting here then? Geek.
"Lee-nucks" (who actually says the last?).
I do!
My other account has a 3-digit UID.
I'm happy that debian finally took kde2 to their release, but i'm wondering why can't they put kde3 in unstable... you have to download it from another site...
And with stable, i don't want all new and cool stuff that i want in my desktop machine (i run testing in my desktop), because stable is like it says STABLE, and that what people (i for one) want to have in my server.
The problem in the world today is communication. Too much communication - Homer Simpson
"Honey, I can't. I have to be with Debbie this FRIDAY NIGHT."
:) ... in all honesty, she thinks it's really cool that i use a distribution so closely resembles her name
since my fiance is named debbie, i can get away with this
09
Cygwin is only for architectures that Windows supports, which also happens to be the most common, so of course it isnt a big deal to release early.
Just realize that Debian's XFree86 team does much more than package it and distribute. They are the ones porting it over, not RedHat, Mandrake, SuSE, Cygwin and FreeBSD.
Sorry if Debian doesn't fit your time frame, its not meant to fit anyones. It's meant to be done when its done, and thats the beauty in it. If you can't deal with that, either use unstable or use another distro.
P.S. - Unstable isn't as dangerous as people make it out to be. My unstable box has been running for over 250 days, and I update every day or two. If that is considered 'very risky' then what does that say about other distro's who claim to be stable? So don't say that we just use unstable as an excuse for slow package releases.
I am running KDE 3.0.2 and X4.2 and running Debian unstable, btw :)
Big thanks goes out to the Debian developer's, congratulations!!!!
-topside
What? You're surprised that Debian developers and users are geeks? What planet did you say you came from again? :)
In any case, note that the Debian developers finished in time to head off to the movies/restaurants/clubs (especially those of us on the left coast). It's the Debian users who are now faced with confronting their true geek natures.
> since my fiance is named debbie, i can get away with this :) ... in all honesty, she thinks it's really cool that i use a distribution so closely resembles her name
;-).
I imagine Ian Murdoch's girlfriend felt the same way
I'll kill you.
finally my woody is stable!
~ a low user id is no indication I have a clue what I'm talking about.
You can easily produce a Michelin/Chevrolet instead. Producing a reasonably featured Linux distribution without using a large amount of GNU software is somewhat more difficult. Do you really want to port BSD libc to Linux?
"Mandrake" /me runs for cover, skillfully dodging the incoming rotten tomatoes.
"The dead do not shoo-bop-aloo-bah." -- Kai, 'Lexx'
and I just burnt Debian isos two days ago! Guess I just spent a dollar on some fancy looking coasters.
You're only as smart as your brain.
Please don't moderate this troll up further. None of those programs is only buildable on x86. None of those programs needs a "golden" compiler (whatever that is). The parent is simply lying.
Got friends?
Outside the little 'world' called the US, a lot of people probably do.
With Conectiva, you have the benefits of apt-get, with up-to-date packages. Best of both worlds. Better yet, you can ask for support around the internet without having to read endless rants on why it's really GNU/linux and all that shit...
Rhymes with orange. No, wait, rhymes with cynics. Lynics, rhymes with Lynicks.
--Giving to trolls for the benefit of us all
The release notes for x86 indicate that the thing
;)
ships with 2.2.20, with an optional 2.4.x for the bleeding-edgers, with (as explanation) a catty remark about the Debian developers not considering 2.4 a 'stable' branch.
Admittedly, I prefer Debian for the work that I do mainly because of the stability. But really -- 2.4 has been utterly reliable since ~2.4.14. Isn't this just a little paranoid? C'mon, folks, the thing is solid! I mean, the VM subsystem hasn't been completely re-written in *months*!
- undoware.ca
I simply don't buy it. It's not like the Debian people are writing the programs. All they are doing is compiling them and packaging them, which doesn't take much time in the grand scheme of things. So this "dropping everything mid-release" sounds like a bunch of nonsense. If you want to see progress check out Gentoo.
Got friends?
Now I can't joke about Stale Potatos & Frozen Woodys
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
What do you think a version number on any software means? Do you think microsoft released 2000 windows? (actually it may have... but that's not the issue here lol)... Cheers...
There is no KDE3 in Unstable yet because everyone has been waiting patiently for Woody to be released. Just wait a little bit, and it will start to appear. Along with Gnome 2, I expect.
The end result, with no disrespect intended to the many people who worked in creating the GNU software, is just "Linux", since GNU is an accessory. Indispensable, like tyres are to a car, but accessory nevertheless
If something is indispensable, it's not an accessory. And unlike tires, much of the GNU software is not replacable out of the box. There's no libc that can replace the GNU libc on Linux; libc4 and libc5 are both based on the GNU libc and don't provide all the nessecary functionality for a modern system. Linux compiles only with GCC; besides which, there's no other free C/C++ compiler that can compile most of the complex code that usually comes with Linux. The linker and binutils are in the same boat. Bash cannot be replaced on Debian; too much stuff depends on its features (for better or worse.)
Frankly, the name of the operating system in question is Debian GNU/Linux. While Linux versus GNU/Linux in general can be debated, Debian has taken a position on that matter, and for the name of our OS, that's what matters.
Has anyone tried this yet? I'm currently using SuSE 8.0, and I'd like to know if anyone 'in the know' would recommend a switch...
"If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards."
I agree. I dunno why the parent post is at -1, but it's exactly what I experienced. I started using Mandrake about a year ago. I got used to the enviroment a bit, and really started liking it.
.tar.gz from the net. Sadly, I think it is the easiest option for a installing a lot of the software out there. Tracking down endless lists of dependencies on rpmfind, only to be confused over which of the 10 different similairly named RPMs to pick from is simply not that fun.
:(. Needless to say, it was back to Mandrake for me.
:(. I've heard it said that the install is so bad because you only have to go through it once, but failing at the install one time makes the system unusable.
I was used to the pain of RPM dependencies, and after the initial install of Mandrake (which is done internally completely by RPM), I wouldn't use RPMs much by myself. When installing new software, I'd first check the software manager (which has a nice search for non-installed stuff on the Mandrake CDs), and failing that, go directly for a source
I heard about how great apt-get was. So I figured I'd try to install Debian 2.2. Ouch... not a good idea. I did manage to get it installed.. kind of. Running windowmaker (used KDE almost exclusively in Mandrake, and never anything other than KDE and GNOME) at 640x480 with 256 color on a monitor that supports 1280x1024 because my year old GeForce 3 wasn't supported with the old version of X shipped with Debian. It would have been ok if I had an internet connection, I'd installed the Nvidia drivers a couple times, but I couldn't even figure out how to get the net connection working. No netconf..
One can't experience the greatness of apt-get if they can't make it through the install
I'm halfway through a 56k download of woody. damn it. damn it. arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
-
Drill Sarg: Whats your name scumbag?!?!? Private: Sir, private woody, sir! Drill Sarg: BULLSHIT! From now on your name is private STABLE!!! Do you like that name ?!?!?!?! Private: Sir YES Sir!!! Drill Sarg: Well there's one thing you won't like private stable, they don't serve gcc 2.96 and KDE3 on a daily basis in my mess hall!!!!! Private: Sir, yes, sir!!!!
It's not like the Debian people are writing the programs. All they are doing is...
Did I just hear someone volunteer to help with the next Debian release?
The dogcow says "Moof!"
I simply don't buy it.
I frankly don't care what you "buy" or not.
When Debian releases, they release for more platforms than anyone else: x86, Alpha, PowerPC, Sparc, 68K, ia64, etc. etc.
When Debian releases "stable", they have done enough testing that you can really count on it to be stable.
The above items take some time. Stabilizing a new version of XFree86 in particular takes time, since the XFree86 guys only test on x86.
All they are doing is compiling them and packaging them, which doesn't take much time in the grand scheme of things.
Why don't you join the Debian team and show them how it's done? Since you're such an expert and all. After all, I'm sure the Debian guys are all idiots, just wasting time for no reason, and with someone like you on board they can get releases out in no time at all.
By the way, new stuff shows up in Debian's "unstable" branch very quickly, because just compiling and packaging stuff doesn't take all that long in the grand scheme of things. It's Debian's stable branch that is legendary for taking a long time to update.
If you want to see progress check out Gentoo.
I'm glad you like it. But Gentoo and Debian are not the same thing; both have pluses and minuses compared to each other.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Alright... I know about this testing stuff and how long has woody been on but KDE 2.2 ? I mean come on, Redhat 7.3 was released before this one and it came with KDE 3.
This is supposedly a major upgrade (2.2 -> 3.0) you'd think the least one can get things like the latest desktops. Not all of us use Linux as servers only.
However, there can't have been much demand for it, because development ceased back in 2000.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Well, that obviously depends on whether you're talking about "Linux" or "Lunix", of course.
I know one's not supposed to feed the trolls, but bugs DO get fixed in the stable version. But unlike some other distributions, that just toss in a new package, that *might* break some functionality on a server, Debian backports the bug-fix. The version is the same, but the bugs - and ONLY the bugs - are fixed.
Its not quite as simple as just packaging the programs.
They have to be packaged for and run perfectly on the 11 different hardware architectures that debian supports.
And the debian packages do more than just package these programs - they generally have to adjust the code in these programs (if you used debian and another distro you would notice how much more stable these packages are in debian than in other distros).
Plus all these developers are doing this voluntarily - so I think they are doing a great job speedwise with releases.
when everything is working perfectly.. BREAK SOMETHING before something else FUCKS up!
I originally planned to put Debian on this new computer, but I didn't want to wait forever for 3.0. On the DAY that I finish getting Gentoo installed, Debian 3 is released. Figures.
Well, gentoo is cool so far.
-- Fester
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows."
Great work team. We /. because we love you. I can't wait to be able to try this out.
I do security
just 1h after i finished downloading RC7.....
Surely the 3.0 release is a hoax - they can't possibly have a stable release that includes the *current* stable kernel _and_ the latest XFree.
11*43+456^2
One can't experience the greatness of apt-get if they can't make it through the install
The first time I tried debian (I think this was Debian 1.3?), I got hopelessly confused by the installation and went back to redhat 4.2 and was much happier.
When 2.0 came out, I decided to give it another try, and struggled through the installation, and finally ended up with a nice system. But great as apt-get was, I felt it wasn't worth the pain.
Then I figured out the painless way to install debian: go through the installation and install the bare minimum that you absolutely need (this means no X!). Then once you've got that running, which is quick and easy, use apt for everything else you use. This has the side benefit that there's no wasted space on your drive.
That depends on how you define "is" and "replaceable" and "out of the box". It's true that libc and gcc are indispensable to Linux as it is now, but they are, definitely, replaceable and other libraries or compilers could be used.
My point was that Linux is totally independent from GNU; it needs libraries and compilers, true, but these could come from Borland, Microsoft, Watcom, Symantec, etc, etc. In the same way, GNU does not depend on Linux. Before Linux existed, I used GNU under MS-DOS, with DJGPP. But I didn't call it "MS-DOS/GNU".
I believe in free software, and I think we should care about "advocacy", that is, presenting to the world the best things free software can do for us. And, frankly, this constant bickering on why it should be really "GNU/Linux" shows the worst of free-software users: childish ranting, always ready for a flame war. It's worse than Microsoft marketing, they, at least, have something to gain by their exagerations and distortions.
Have you ever tried to use apt-get to testing, not even asking to go for the unstable. I had ATI Radeon (not the most supported of cards) working fine without a problem a year ago after I go my machine on the net. I didn't even need to start X until after I was able to upgrade to all of the latest stuff.
The whole point of Debian is that if you want stability, it's rock stable. But if your hardware is too new to have stable drivers, you have to sacrifice some stability and use the "testing" or "unstable" versions.
Doesn't Lee-nus or did he Americanise his pronunciation?
Debian 3.0 Woody comes with KDE 2 and XFree86 4.1 while 3 and 4.2 are out respectively.
Big deal. Pretty soon, both the XFree86 and the KDE 3 situations will be rectified. So we've had to wait a bit longer. It's well worth it in my opinion since Debian makes installation and upgrade of all this software incredibly easy compared to ANY other operating system. If you want to go out and use something inferior, that's your own business. Eventually Debian gets current and once it leaps these major release hurdles, they stay current.
This is a bit sad, seeing that even CygWin and FreeBSD have more up-to-date versions in their releases. Just think of how much effort it took Cygwin to port the packages to Windows before packaging them, for example -- yet despite this their releases are far more timely.
The *BSD ports system is basically a nice way of organizing sources for programs. Very little effort is needed to add something to the system (this includes figuring out deps). So, it's not that big of a deal to see Debian lag behind BSD. Try again.
As for Cygwin, I'm trying to imagine how hard it is. Well, it just isn't. In the past few days, I've installed a lot of programs from source on Cygwin at work. None of them ever complained about not being in a real "unix" environment. Your statement clearly indicates that you've missed the whole point of Cygwin. Cygwin is designed such that it is not supposed to be hard to make packages of "unix" software for it. Duh.
The Debian packagers claim that there is a lot of intricacy involved in the packaging, and i'm sure there is, but I don't buy that people should have to use older software with known bugs, several months after the upstream authors have released their software.
Yes, it is infact intricate. Debian supports 11 platforms. Some are little endian, other big. Some are CISC, others MIPS. Some software (serpent cipher for example) only work on machines with certain endianness. As a result, this makes a dependency nightmare for the package maintainers. I'd like to see anyone else take on the job the Debian people have assumed and do 10% the quality of work.
As for using older software... well, fine, don't buy it then. It's well known in the IT world that you stick with the tried and true until the bleeding edge stops bleeding. A lot of shops know better than to jump right onto the latest version bandwagon because doing so destroys a potential resource of great value: watching other people fail in doing so. Knowing what your problems are when using software is better than using software and not knowing what problems you'll have. Again, duh.
Why bother.
actually... windows 2000 is windows nt version 5. windows me is version 4.9 of the 9x kernel. i have no idea what the hell winxp is. just a piece of crap in my opinion. but you're right... version number means nothing, it's just relative to the other releases of a single piece of software by a single company. aol seems to increase it's versions by 1 whole number everytime they make a slight change, debian makes big changes when they change their version number. i remember when 2.2 was release, i had originally thought woody was 2.3, but it's now 3.0, big jump, but there's probably enough changes to warrant the big jump.
please me, have no regrets.
All those thinking of downloading the iso's you should do yourself a favour and have a look at jigdo.(1)
Jido downloads individual packages from mirrors and assembles the iso on you computer.
As someone who tried to download potato iso via a modem and use rsync to (attempt to) fix it up, i unreservedly recommend jigdo.
Its pretty easy to use as well.
1: http://home.in.tum.de/~atterer/jigdo/
It's true that libc and gcc are indispensable to Linux as it is now, but they are, definitely, replaceable and other libraries or compilers could be used.
Linux can be replaced with a BSD kernel (using Linux compatibility mode) in far less time than any libc or C/C++ compiler could be changed to do the job that GNU libc and GCC does.
Linux is totally independent from GNU
The only compiler that can compile Linux is GCC. That's a pretty strong dependency there.
this constant bickering on why it should be really "GNU/Linux"
There was no bickering here until you brought it up. If Debian wants to call their operating system Debian GNU/Linux, I hardly see how it's any buisness of yours.
Actually in the sound clip I got it sounds like Lee-Nooks
Wherever you go, there you are!
Release of Debian 3.0 is great news.
But those of us who have been regularly checking their web site in anticipation will be surprised, because the number of release-critical bugs has increased lately, and stands at 186 as I type.
Check for yourself - up from a low point of under 100 a month ago.
Back to the release notes: we understand Debian likes to be eccentric, but isn't it silly to provide the release notes in Catalan? The total number of speakers of Catalan, worldwide, is far less than the number of native Chinese speakers in New York (or even in Queens). And less than the number of native German speakers in Paraguay. The release notes are not provided in either Chinese or German.
I use Mozilla for all my web browsing, except when I use lynx for speed. It hasn't crashed on me in a month or so, and it seems to render all sites well. Of course I have no idea what they're "supposed" to look like on IE, but watch me not care.
Apparently, the KDE3 guys are waiting for GCC3 to be put into the unstable branch before they proceed with KDE3. I have no idea why GCC3 is delayed though :-p
I was in the shower when this was announced. This is one of those moments you will tell your kids about in the future. Go Debian!
And as we all know (except for the magazines) the branches of debian are like this compared to other distros:
Now all that's left to say is, I wonder what they'll do when then run out of Toy Story characters to name the releases after? Or if they switch, what they'll switch to?
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
When Debian releases, they release for more platforms than anyone else: x86, Alpha, PowerPC, Sparc, 68K, ia64, etc. etc.
It's nice and all, but what's the point ?
90% of the userbase is on x86 (guesstimate), not recognizing that is stupid and arrogant.
They could have released 3.0 on x86 first, and on all other platforms later.
If Linux had the same anal policies as Debian, we'd still be at 1.0.
By the way, new stuff shows up in Debian's "unstable" branch very quickly
*cough*...Xfree 4.2...*cough*...kde 3...*ok I feel better now*
I admire the ideals of the Debian people, but if they didn't have extremly practical tools like apt-get, most users wouldn't give a crap about this dist.
I'm told Debian comes from two first names--Deborah, and Ian. So Dehbyahn, or Dehbiun, or maybe something else depending on how you like to say Ian.
I want my Cowboyneal
Is anyone else going to get really really blasted simply because Woody is finally released? Or am I just weird like that?
Oh well, either well, congrats to the Debian team and here's toasting to you.
actually... windows 2000 is windows nt version 5. windows me is version 4.9 of the 9x kernel. i have no idea what the hell winxp is
Win XP is 5.1, IIRC
Michael
There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
that is the question.
/ release- notes/ch-upgrading.en.html
From
http://www.debian.org/releases/woody/i386
3.3 Preparing Sources for APT
The recommended method of upgrading is to use apt-get directly
3.5 Upgrading using apt-get (not recommended)
Which one is it?
Can anyone please explain?
Perhaps not any business of mine, but "Linux" is a registered trademark, and it's not owned by any "Debian" (whatever that might be). And, since Mr. Linus Torvalds, the owner of the Linux trademark, has gracefully let the free software community use his trademark, I don't think it correct that this "Debian" bunch of talibans kidnap the good Linux name by attaching to it other signatures.
What would you say if someone claimed it should really be "MICROSOFT/Debian", and started posting obnoxious spam everywhere insisting it should be called so?
5.1.2600 to be precise
Weigh that against the inordinate amount of time it takes to compile hundreds of friggin programs, for most of which it doesn't really matter if they're 2% faster.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Is anyone else going to get really really blasted simply because Woody is finally released? Or am I just weird like that?
I've been looking for a good excuse all afternoon. Thanks.
Exceeding the recommended torque is not recommended.
Is this a kind of joke?
Most of available to download gnome packages will fail to build with such old Gnome.
That is the last thing saying me - you do right staying with Redhat, which v 8.0b works just fine.
Less is more !
No, Debian only backports security fixes as a matter of policy. Other bugfixes do get backported by the maintainers of their respective packages; read the changelogs. They just don't have a special team dedicated to the task like the security fixes do.
You mean similar to the hacked-together patched-up broken "GCC 2.96" that's been part of RedHat for the past four releases?
If you're going to issue an update to fix a bug, it's better to issue a backport that incorporates only the bugfix (released from upstream, remember, so not exactly "sketchy") than to issue a whole new version that includes changes totally unrelated to the bug.
Don't you mean the Boston Red Sox? When they win the World Series, you KNOW Hell hath frozen over! --M
That's true, but the "stable" branch is mostly useful on things like servers, and who puts a top-of-the-line 3D accelerator in a server? "Unstable" really isn't very unstable at all; yes, individual programs break from time to time, but don't think you'll have things break down on you on a regular basis.
I run unstable most of the time, and I boot Windows about once every week or two to play games. Between those reboots, I'm running XFree86 4.1 at 1600x1200 on nvidia's drivers, running xmms, Gaim, Galeon, xchat, LimeWire, VMware, and myriad useful panel applets, for days straight. In the background I have Apache, SSH, CUPS, scanlogd, OpenAFS, fetchmail, samba, and a few others. Occasionally I'll fire up Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament. Last night my panel crashed randomly and then restarted with everything in its place, and honestly, that's the only crash I can remember experiencing all summer.
What happened to subject line troll?
As my father lik@(munch munch)...
Haha, you posted a response to a signature!
You're offtopic.
neener neener
As my father lik@(munch munch)...
Umm... I am pretty sure msdos is pretty easy to crash.
or.
It may not crash as a single user OS where one does not fudge around. Debian stable is meant to be a stable multiuser platform that can run all sorts of services. And it is supposed to be stable.
Again if you want more just install sarge or sid like everyone else.
jon.
Yeah, this new Debian release kicks ass! Now the Debian users can have all the great software that was in RedHat 2 versions ago. Whee!!
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
Wow! So cutting edge! Suse 8 had KDE 3 ages ago, now Slackware 8.1 is out and has it, and we should be excited that Debian has finally come out with support for a now quite obsolete version of KDE.
The day that Suse or Slackware provides working binaries for 10,000 packages on 11 architectures it might actually be relevent to make comparisons like this.
Not to mention that the point of this statement was that KDE is being included in Debian for the first time, since last time Debian made a release it was illegal to distributed KDE linked with QT. Not that any other distros gave a shit about what was legal, and even more amusing was that everyone accused Debian of being biased against KDE, a claim that was dispelled by Debian's instant willingness to include KDE once the license on QT changed...
Americanizing it would make it Lye-nucks, and he sure didn't say it like that in the audio clip I heard.
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
Hope this isn't modded as flamebait.
If I had modpoints, it probably would be.
Why? Because I feel confident that you know about stable/testing/woody, and therefore you probably know that getting Debian with the latest-and-greatest software is as easy as making a few modifications to the sources.list and running an apt-get dist-upgrade. You don't even really have to know what to put in your sources.list, there are hundreds of them floating around online. You can just pick and choose the parts you want.
Heaven forbid Debian's "default" release be meticulously stable. Shouldn't they include more cutting-edge software as opposed to the tried-and-true stuff? Wait, that doesn't make any sense. That's like arguing that distributions should ship with every desireable service enabled. Personally, I'm glad Debian doesn't ship with "iffy" software. If I want to take that risk, I'll spend two minutes adjusting my system to suit me.
-- "Complacency is a far more dangerous attitude than outrage." -Naomi Littlebear
3am California time is in the middle of the average working day in the UK.
If you have a lot of users in other time zones, then rotate the scheduled downtime through all the time zones.
Will I retire or break 10K?
You hear me! Use the beta version of the PGI ISO, the graphical user-friendly autohardware detecting installer for Woody. Check out the website here, and the ISOs are at the first link (only 100MB download for the entire ISO).
Debian truely is the one true Linux distro. Its non-commercial, and developed by an open free internet community. Not only that, but Debian is superior to every other Linux distro. It is stable, easy to maintain, and it runs on any useful piece of computer hardware - no matter what platform that hardware is. Support Debian by simply spending the time to install and use it for your main Linux installation.
I'm not unhappy because XFree86 4.2 is not in Debian stable. I'm not even unhappy because it is not in testing. I'm unhappy because XFree86 4.2, after 6 months, is not even in unstable. That's just bogus.
4.2.99.1? Forget about it.
and my friend with broad band -just- finished downloading the previous stable release for me! 6 CDs... (3 binary, 3 source). release often, eh?
Question
http://www.ironfroggy.com/
Anyway, my post did point out the obvious. The obvious, however, is something most slashdotters are often unaware of.
-- Ken Kinder ken@_nospam_kenkinder.com http://kenkinder.com/
This is better than a Star Trek TNG All weekend marathon!
> Maybe not yet Gnome 2, but especially XFree
> 4.2 is solid enough.
I've been wondering that for long as well, until I see this page...
http://people.debian.org/~branden/sid/
Well, we already have build for hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, powerpc and sparc. Well... 7 architectures... but we need 11...
Let's say "good job" to Branden rather than continuing to blame Debian for trying to get a semi-finished product "XFree 4.2" into a shape that is reasonable to be included into the main archive.
Hi Guys,
;)
I own a Sun Blade 100, which I guess is a real basic entry level Sun box in that it has an IDE harddrive, and onboard ATI graphics. I have upgraded the HDD to a 40GB IBM Deskstar and it currently has 256MB RAM. Would Debian run ok on this? I have wanted to try out debian for ages but never really got around to downloading it - seeing as they do it for Sparc, my Sun Blade would be an ideal donor as Solaris drives me up the wall
"Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
Plus the fact that testing has a serious security problem (security updates won't show up until about two weeks after they are packaged since they have to go through unstable first).
No, the package maintainer can assign a priority to a package. Default priority uploads will move to testing after a couple of weeks in unstable, but security uploads are normally assigned the highest priority, and should appear within a day or two. Just enough time to make sure it won't actually eat your system.
And ogg vorbis 1.0 too!
Somehow you seem to have missed the point that you are the one bickering about calling it GNU/Linux. You claimed that you hate this bickering.
1. Why did you start it.
2. Why are you STILL doing it?
To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
It comes from the names of our founder and his girlfriend. Debra and Ian.
;-)
But dont pronounce it Deb-ian!
Instead imagine this beautyfull extremly atractive young lady called Debi. A girl with so many suiters and worshipers that they have formed a cult, and by all are known as: "Debians".
I am a Debian too.
KDE really cool debian GNU/ addition. HPPA really cool thing too! debian kicks ass! crypto cool too!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually it is. It is just named differently.
All the important fixes in XFree 4.2 (was there anything but fixes?) have been ported to the version of XFree 4.1 in Debian Woody.
"For the first time, Debian comes with the K Desktop Environment 2.2 (KDE). The GNOME desktop environment is upgraded to version 1.4, and X itself is upgraded to the much improved XFree86 4.1. With the addition of several full-featured free graphical web browsers in the form of Mozilla, Galeon, and Konqueror, Debian's desktop offerings have radically improved."
Why does Debian always come with such old stuff? Fine, maybe KDE 2.2 is more stable than 3 but still...
The only thing keeping me from not using Debian is the oldish software... I'm talking about my workstation, for servers Debian is great.
An interesting fact about Debian is that a lot of the software is supported on more platforms by Debian, than they are by the upstream authors. XFree86 is one example of this, I'm sure there are others.
IIRC, some of the Debian architectures are not even supported by XFree86. Overfiend (the Debian XFree86 maintainer) does the porting himself.
My point was that Linux is totally independent from GNU
That might be an interesting point if Debian looked anything like a bare Linux kernel.
Cheers,
Daniel
(yes, IHBT..)
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
> I'm not unhappy because XFree86 4.2 is not in Debian stable. I'm not even unhappy because it is not in testing.
> I'm unhappy because XFree86 4.2, after 6 months, is not even in unstable. That's just bogus.
Well, it has been in experimental for over a month.
See http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2002/debian-d evel-200204/msg01343.html
for some idea of the challenges of maintaining
X for Debian.
Also check out the Debian changelog for X (/usr/share/doc/xserver-xfree86/changelog.Debian.g z).
It may give you some idea of how much effort it took
to fine-tune 4.1.
On the other hand, why am I wasting time on an asshole who derides others' work as "bogus"?
(Disclaimer: I work with Branden Robinson, the maintainer for X in Debian, so I have some appreciation for the amount of work he puts into X.)
I've been known to put a bit of work into X myself, so calling me an "asshole" is probably not productive.
OTOH, perhaps I misunderstand the Debian software distribution model. The way I always thought it was supposed to work, the downstream maintainer dumps things into unstable ASAP so that folks can start using them. Then they work on getting them ready for inclusion in testing.
I've never heard of "experimental" as a standard part of the Debian distribution process for an incorporated package. Indeed, I note that Branden has had to put together his own set of mirrors to distribute his experimental XFree86 release. IMHO his acknowledgedly valuable time and energy would have been better spent by letting the standard Deb mirroring process take care of this, by making 4.2 the unstable build at that point. But again, perhaps there is something I am missing about the process.
I understand that building X for Deb is a lot of work. And "bogus" was a poorly chosen word for the frustration I'm feeling: my apologies. But I am, to choose a better word, frustrated.
I install Debian on others' boxes frequently (a few times a week lately). For a substantial fraction of those installs over the last 6 months, I have had to build X from XFree86.org source to get folks' video cards working properly. And for 5 of those months, I didn't even have the option of trying an experimental 4.2 build out of Branden's home directory.
For my own home boxes, I long ago put holds on most of the x-related packages and just build XFree86 from CVS when it seems like I need to. That's part of my frustration: I know that Branden's work is helping XFree86 to work a lot better for folks on non-x86 platforms and with unusual problems. But I am not (and I think many others are not) in this situation, and I've generally had awfully good luck with XFree86 top-of-tree. I wish someone would Deb that regularly: I wish I had time to do it, or that I could find someone willing whom I could help.
So yes, I apologize for the pejorative tone of "bogus". But no, I'm not willing to drink "a nice cup of shut the f*** up" at this point. I and others have real problems; it is increasingly difficult for us to support other Debian users and our own X-related work.
anthony towns has posted a fairly detailed `retrospective' on th release of woody and an `introspecitve' on th future release of sarge here