John Carmack, Rocket Boy

will_edit_for_food writes "Space Future has an interview with John Carmack (of Doom and Quake fame) about his new company Armadillo Aerospace and their plans to build a passenger-carrying vehicle for space tourism." Carmack's involvement with unconventional rocketry is well-known, but this interview offers a glimpse into the details of Armadillo's approach to the skies.

Comments

GPL FP

[egg troll]

Three generations of rockets down the road, John will GPL the specs for the first rocket!

Ahha!

[Latent IT]

We straightened the bent frame by wedging it between the trailer and Joseph's tractor, and running a floor jack under the middle until it straightened out. Russ gave it a quick paint job.

Holy cow, I didn't know Carmack was such a farm boy. ;p

Where's my Doom III?

[death00]

Maybe if he stopped screwing around with this Doom III might actually get out the door before the Mars landing.

Re:Where's my Doom III?

[qubit64]

I imagine that at this point it's not so much the programming that is going to take the most time, it's the content... (Maybe I'm wrong, I have nothing to base this comment on, or any comment on this for that matter. It's just something I recall from somewhere. Maybe a dream?)

Re:Where's my Doom III?

[liquidflare]

Seriously, where the fuck is it. WHy doesn't carmack stick to what he is good at.

Re:Where's my Doom III?

[Anonymous Coward]

I want to know where he got the ideas for the effects in Doom and Quake. Working in industry, the game layouts mirror that of an industrial plant. When I fire up the games, I swear I'm at work, punched on the clock and ready for action, but armed to the teeth. Working late nights, sometimes its like a trip: the walls just blend into the game as I nod off into sleep.

Re:Where's my Doom III?

[DrVxD]

> WHy doesn't carmack stick to what he is good at.
Because he's made a load of cash from doing "what he's good at", and is now enjoying that cash. He started Armadillo primarily because he thought it would be cool, not to make money out of it. If he makes money out of it too, then that'll be cool. But mostly, he's just a boy playing with his toys. He doesn't need to finish Doom 3 - the guy could retire today and never worry about having to feed himself. But I suspect he'll finish D3 - "when it's done", because he still enjoys that too.

Re:Where's my Doom III?

[Will_Malverson]

Dude, I'd much rather have cheap space access than yet another FPS.

Re:Where's my Doom III?

[tunah]

First person shooter or Frame per second? :D

Re:Where's my Doom III?

[Anonymous Coward]

Funney Posting Shitface - like you

Re:Where's my Doom III?

[joshua404]

Seriously, where the fuck is it. WHy doesn't carmack stick to what he is good at. Why don't you take some of your own advice? I'm sure there's a vacant alley somewhere in need of a bum begging to suck cock for quarters.

Hmmm

[BlackCobra43]

I wonder if he'll send some marines off to Mars one day,just to see.....

Regarding John Carmack

[Anonymous Coward]

I never knew he was Darwin Awards fodder. To think he'd rather privatize space travel! He must not have obtained enough vicarious adrenaline rushes from his own games.

BFG

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen what Carmack can do with the BFG - I'm not about to ride one of those into orbit!

I'll belive it when I see it.

[autopr0n]

from the site:

We straightened the bent frame by wedging it between the trailer and Joseph's tractor, and running a floor jack under the middle until it straightened out. Russ gave it a quick paint job.

I don't doubt that Carmack is a smart guy, but these guys are basically garage tinkerers. I wouldn't really want to fly into space on a vehicle that used duct tape as an integral part of the craft. Even if these guys can build something capable of propelling someone into space, I wouldn't want to actually be on it until the design had been worked out by real engineers.

Aside from some of the computer control stuff, I doubt they are really doing all that much innovated (well, aside from cost saving measures :P). I'm sure they're having a lot of fun though :)

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

About 2 million duct tapes are used when doing preps for each shuttle mission. We have such a large order that 3M has it's own division set out for us. Ductape is an intergrial (no joke) part of all space research. Oh I'm at NASA btw.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

No one wants to use an operating system written by hackers and teenage kids to run the internet too...

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm just a contractor, dont really work for them, but this goes through our company so I know that as well.

But a scary case might be, instead of using 3m, they have gone to a cheaper malaysian brand about 6 months back, I don't know the reason and I'm probably not the best person to be talking about this.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

And the Wright brothers were "just bicycle mechanics". Its people like this who will give us cheap space access long before NASA or any other government agency does.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[SheldonYoung]

Real engineers get stuff done, the rest are just posers.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Reality Master 101]

You do know that they're talking about one of the experimental landers, right? Just out curiosity, exactly how would YOU have fixed it? Do you think they should order another one out of the catalog? Start the engineering teams rebuilding one from scratch?

Sheesh, cut him some slack.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[RocketGeek]

This attitude of people being "real" engineers, and others being perceived as garage tinkerers is not only arrogant and misguided, it is what holds non governmental spaceflight back.

I've seen supposed "real"engineers, in fact some with degrees from Universities such as Oxford, and supposed space engineering backgrounds, blow up rocket motors through simple and avoidable mistakes. Then again, I've seen non engineers, working without much funding (the supposed garage tinkerers), build comparable rocket motors that quite literally blow the "real" engineers efforts away in terms of reliability and robustness.

The difference, is those without the attitude, and without the government/big business mentality, seem to have a better overall grasp of how the systems go together, not always, but in my experience, generally enough that it is noticeable. There's also another facet those you refer to as garage tinkerers have that I tend to see missing in many "real" engineers in space related disciplines; it's called common sense.

As for your duct tape remark, and your comment on real engineers working out designs. I take it you've never been in one of the older space capsules ? It's always so easy to be an armchair expert when you have the benefit of ignorance to back you up. I would not, if I were you, ever go inside a Vostok or a Soyuz capsule, because if your comments above are anything to go by, you'd have a fit.

When I worked professionally in the space industry on a project in Russia, I was amazed at the simplicity of the early manned space capsules. Technology has moved on sufficiently now, that people such as John Carmack (who is far from a garage tinkerer) could develop a manned capsule to match those, of that I have no doubt.

I can't wait until John Carmack gets something manned flying. It will be like DC-X all over again. All these nay saying supposed "real" engineers suddenly changing their tune and saying "well I thought it would work actually, but I didn't say anything". Yeah right.

Armadillo Aerospace will succeed where others have failed, precisely because they don't have the attitude so prevalent in large aerospace engineering projects.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[WolfWithoutAClause]

The saying about rocket science is true: "Rocket science ain't rocket science anymore".

Forget innovation. There's all the tech we need already worked. We need the economics to work out- launching a lot does wonders for the economics. Launch every day and twice on tuesdays and the costs come down- that's the big secret. That's why the Space Shuttle costs so much: they don't/can't launch enough.

Carmack is smart enough to do this stuff- he doesn't need professional engineers, but he can/will get them as he needs to. But rockets aren't hard.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[D_Fresh]

Yeah, you're probably right. I know at least a dozen guys on my block alone who are designing and building single-stage-to-orbit manned launch vehicles. Nothing good ever came out of garage tinkering, anyhow.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually most OSS programmers are 30, and live with their mum.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Grax]

Technicians get stuff done. Engineers just think up the stuff that needs doing.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[seann]

your right
Nothing good ever came out of garage tinkering, anyhow.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Carmack is a garage tinkerer. Deal.
2. The guy was a tard for bitching about duct tape. Seriously a tard.
3. Real engineers are almost always more disciplined and knowledgeable than garage anything. Your claims to the contrary will require significant evidence.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to see Woz make a G4 with his soldering iron. Maybe you can solve the expense problem of high-energy physics with your soldering iron?

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[khallow]

Whatever. Real technician/engineers get the damn thing built. Are you happy now?

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[CoolVibe]

"Grey tape has a lot of uses. We use it for almost everything"

That's a quote from a real astronaut, although I don't remember which one... heck, if NASA uses it, I might just be able to justify my excessive use of it at work as well to whoever complains at work :)

So what's the difference between NASA's duct tape, and the "normal" type I use?

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Grax]

Sure. I was not unhappy before.

I'd rather be the engineer than the technician. The engineer gets a lot more creative control.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

are you sure it's not his left?

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[CableModemSniper]

So what's the difference between NASA's duct tape, and the "normal" type I use?

Branding?

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[RocketGeek]

As another post has pointed out, originally, the likes of Apple and HP were garage start ups. I can deal with it, what's your issue ?

You are lucky if you've never come across "real" engineers who do louse up. There seems to be this arrogance that many have, this air of superiority. That's not only an observation from me (I'm a physicist by background, and yes, I have worked on a number of space missions, I just choose not to have the air of superiority that many in the industry adopt towards the so called "garage tinkerers" - a term that does many a great dis-service), but by friends who are engineers and work in their spare time on what is sneeringly called garage tinkering on rocketry, who are equally sick of the arrogant attitude espoused by engineers who spend more time in front of monitors than actually bending metal.

It's one thing to read books like Rocket Propulsion Elements, or Spacecraft Propulsion Analysis and Design, but it's a totally different exercise to get out there and test, like Armadillo Aerospace are doing.

The one whose claims require significant evidence is you. If these "real" engineers you refer to are so good, what happened to the likes of X-33, the X-30 NASP etc ? Why have Mars missions loused up because of metric/imperial confusion ? Why didn't the release system on missions that failed have a very simple, very low gain transmission system to at least enable mission controllers to know whether heat shields or descent probes separated ? What about the louse up with the first launch of Ariane 5 ? Gosh, that's a lot of discipline and knowledge shown there. Yes, these are a minority rather than a majority, but it shows that stupidity is not a trait for "real" engineers or their acolytes to confer on anyone else.

"Real" real engineering doesn't depend on wearing a suit and working for a large multinational aerospace conglomerate, and being able to run 6DOF sims on supercomputers, it depends on good engineering practice. That is not dependent on the size of the organisation, it could be any size organisation, it could be operating out of a large aerospace production line or a shed. What is important is approach.

You may also benefit from reading up about the early development of rocketry. The early work was carried out frequently by people not quite as knowledgable as you think, but with a more open mind to trying things out, and more an emphasis on testing than pontificating, that's for sure. The level of discipline required then differed little if at all from that employed by many garage level groups today. I take it you have tested hardware yourself, haven't you ? You've been at a launch pad when something unexpected goes wrong and you have to do some hack to get the vehicle in the air ?

Personally, I prefer the build a little, test a little, incremental engineering approach. It works for Armadillo, it works for the group I work with, it works for many other "garage" style groups, and small companies. And the longer some maintain an air of superiority, and that rocket engineering is all so hard and requires big aerospace engineering conglomerates and insecure people with bit attitude problems, the more stupid they will look when the smaller, nimbler groups make monkeys of them.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Your roll of duct tape only cost $2.00.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[bsartist]

So what's the difference between NASA's duct tape, and the "normal" type I use?

About $150 a roll.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

You know the end of the world is close at hand when people are running around trying to correct properly-worded grammar.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

build comparable rocket motors that quite literally blow the "real" engineers efforts away

Is it so fucking hard to learn how to use the word "literally" in a correct manner?

Literally is the opposite of metaphorically.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

There are a lot of different Duct Tape formulations, the difference between the professional stuff (theoretically used by HVAC contractors) and the cheap stuff is pretty dramatic.

I would guess that NASA's tape is virtually the same as the professional stuff, just marked up to ridiculous extremes due to the manufacturer having to amortize all the insane-ass testing they require.

Can't expect to get something for $10/roll when you require the manufacturer to spend millions on testing (without the necessary sales volume to drop the per-roll price down to something reasonable)...

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[e-gold]

At NASA's previous incarnation (NACA?) one rocket's component was a wife's hairpin. This was before lots of money...

Also, http://www.heronaerospace.com/ if you contact 'em has interesting stuff about Gerald Bull's gun in extra-large form being used to propel humans(!) into space, and I know the CEO, he's only a bit nuts ;) and knows his physics. Not that I want to be first person to try it...
JMR

Maybe this will lead to that space-sex-tourism/prostitution business I keep wanting to own someday...

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[NeMon'ess]

unbunch your panties. the proper response is 'touché'

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Literally is literally the opposite of metaphorically.
Literally is metaphorically antipodal to metaphorically.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Bingo Foo]

Oh my god. It's worse than I thought. Your journal is pure tripe. Demonstrably, capitalism has succeeded a bazillionfold better than communism. What makes you think that there is any merit in providing everybody with the same material wealth in the first place? Do you honestly believe that wealth is a conserved quantity? What makes you think there will be any material wealth to dirstribute for long if it is given at the government's gunpoint? Why is it that Marxism/Communism can only exist when it is enforced in oppressive authoritarian dictatorships? What makes you think that your "modified" scheme will work when Marxism/communism has failed spectacularly everywhere it has been implemented?

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Saeger]

It's this same institutional arrogance that explains why NASA throws away a perfectly good space station component on every Shuttle mission.

A real "hacker" would have recognized the huge value in boosting the external tanks a tiny bit further so they could make orbit and be repurposed later.

--

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[autopr0n]

Yeah, you're probably right. I know at least a dozen guys on my block alone who are designing and building single-stage-to-orbit manned launch vehicles. Nothing [apple.com] good [hp.com] ever [nps.gov] came out of garage tinkering, anyhow.

Would you trust your life to an Apple 1?

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[NeMon'ess]

I'm updating my journal entry which is almost a copy of this post. Its very early in the morning where I am and this might be just as bad as my first entry, but I believe this is better. If you want to reply you can use the journal entry.

If you really read my journal you know I'm not initially or ever advocating "providing everybody with the same material wealth". Instead I would have the wealthy nations provide more food, birth control, and education to the poorer countries than currently happens.

Why is it that Marxism/Communism can only exist when it is enforced in oppressive authoritarian dictatorships? Because human nature causes most people to think only of themselves, their immediate friends, family, and about two generations of children ahead. Eventual great grandchildren will have to fend for themselves, as will the rest of the state/country/world. Consider the socialist properties of the Canadian health care system and several semi-socialist countries in northern Europe. I admit my ignorance about the details, but in general the haves pay a lot of taxes so the have-not get much more decent health care, and in the N.Euro. countries, education, and housing. These are not authoritarian dictatorships.

Remember when a lot of electronics were made in Japan, but as Japan became a first world country the factories moved to Taiwan and China? Same with clothing and shoes to Mexico, China, and Indonesia? What do you think will happen if eventually every country in the world raises itself to first world status? Where will Americans get cheap Nikes? Prices could double or triple as labor costs increase. How many middle-class Americans will pay for the equivalent of $200 Nikes? What will happen to Nike's bottom line? Just as poor Chinese and Mexicans today can get flip-flops and clothes for a fraction of American prices, so will the majority of the middle class in the future. Instead of brand name clothing, it will be as generic and cheap as possible.

This works for clothing, but what about electronics and other luxury items? I envision a mother-board going for $300 by today's prices because labor costs in Taiwan will cost the same there as in the USA. So there are massive layoffs in entertainment / electronics companies. All the out of work people will not be able to afford services putting others out of work and causing a global recession. Labor prices will drop in response and possibly there is a balance that can be achieved. At what cost though? The middle class as we know it in America is priced out of many luxury items and services, so for the same amount of work, a dollar doesn't go as far.

Here's where I start talking about the environment. The earth has 6,000,000,000 people living on it. Many educated people who make their living studying the effects of humanity on the planet think that is too many for the earth to remain in its present condition. If those six billion people all want to live a lifestyle like that of the average American, it would take eight earths to provide that much and still keep the nature and population balance. So either our planet ends up striped clean of all biodiversity and resources, at which point the six billion people go to war over what has been acquired, or some serious efforts are made to reduce the population and waste being generated. One way to reduce the population is with birth control. Half the people on this earth follow a religion that generally frowns on this. Another option is by education and feeding the people living now. In every nation where the standard of living improved, birthrates went down as families no longer needed huge families to work the fields, or help work in factories to support the family. Parents no longer felt they needed as many children caring for them in old age, and having large families became recognized as a financial burden. This is why if you look at paragraph two you see "I would have the wealthy nations provide more food, birth control, and education to the poorer countries than currently happens."

How to pay for these three things? Not an easy question and I'm no economist. I'm still in college and I wouldn't have posted that journal entry if I didn't want it ripped to shreds so I could learn more. I admit I want to turn some heads and get more people to think how I think about this topic, but I will gladly listen to anyone who can offer different future scenarios. Tell me why capitalism will educate the poor counties and save the planet before humans overrun earth like locusts. I see parts, not all, of socialism as the best solution to this problem. When it comes to reducing waste I am much less certain than I was when I wrote the first journal entry. Capitalism is excellent for finding a balance between supply and demand, but how is it possible to cut out the fat and waste? If companies quit competing against each other and instead worked together, huge marketing costs would be saved and prices could be lower for goods, but the marketing industry would lose jobs, not to mention companies wouldn't put as much into R&D. Innovation slows, and if profit is capped too low people won't work as hard because there won't be the same amount of gain. Like I said earlier, though, six billion people would require eight earths to let them drive SUVs, have 50" wide-screen TVs and bathe in scented oil from The Body Shop. It seems to me if six billion people want equality there are going to be many sacrifices ahead. Capitalism doesn't seem well suited for this job, but representative democratic socialism just might be.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[D_Fresh]

You're still missing the point. Of course I wouldn't trust my life to an Apple I, just like I wouldn't put the SR-71 prototype into production without building a second version or race in the latest experimental Mclaren. Just because the research takes place in a garage-equivalent and bends metal with trucks and elbow grease doesn't make it any less valid. The glamor of the finished product always masks the sweat, cursing, and unglamorous methods that went into its creation. But it's people like you that motivate companies to keep their betas under wraps - if you don't understand the creation process, then the road to innovation and genius is paved with what appears to be scary, duct-taped crap. Try to grow an imagination.

BTW, stupid error in my original comment - this is not a single-stage-to-orbit vehicle at all, just a pod that takes a man straight up into space and straight back down. SSTO is much harder!

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[D_Fresh]

RocketGeek, I totally agree with you. The kind of anti-tinkering prejudice exhibited by some posters about this story is astounding to me. Although not an engineer by training (or really by nature) myself, I've worked closely with them and understand the ethos quite well. Tinkering isn't a marginal activity, it's the heart and soul of what it means to be an engineer. The lack of imagination that the skeptics are showing is incredible - is it so hard to believe that a bunch of guys in a warehouse could eventually (note that word) build a ship that takes men into space?

This is why I was so excited when "Junkyard Wars" became popular - it glorifies the engineers (at least the mechanical ones) in a way that is clearly needed, based on the nudniks who disparage Armadillo's efforts. We need more high-profile shows that go into serious detail about the creation process behind major engineering efforts - I'm talking actual series here, instead of one hour about how the Hoover Dam got built. I'd watch an Engineering Channel for hours on end if it existed. For example, I'd love to hear about all the setbacks and bugs they encountered when programming the computers for the first Apollo missions!

Go to Armadillo's web site and read some of their weekly reports on their progress - these guys are totally serious, and they know their stuff. What they don't know, they've learned, from the ground up - they started with very simple engines bolted to test racks, and they even dribbled peroxide onto various materials to test how they reacted (note to self: no leather shoes!). Along with the other small rocket companies, they're creating a new space culture that is unbelievably exciting - you watch, this is not a blip - more companies like this will spring up. This is the beginning of a whole new private space industry - at last the general public has the technology available to launch thing Very High. :)

To all the philistines, I've said it before - try to grow an imagination. It could prove useful someday.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[RocketGeek]

It's hard to know how to use the word "literally" when one is probably happier writing in Perl than in English, yes :-)

Sorry, I'll try and write in a more correct form next time, or at least use words in a correct context :-)

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[crawling_chaos]

I would suggest that you read any of the accounts of the early space program, particularly the debacle of the first launch of Mercury-Atlas 1. NASA's real engineers put people into space using a lot of "a wing and prayer" techniques. As for duct tape, Apollo 13 would never had made it home without it. It was integral to the jury rigged adapter to fit the CM Lithium Hydroxide canisters into the LM system, since the "real engineers" hadn't bothered to spec the same carts for both systems, despite the fact that the LM Lifeboat was in fact a recognized mission mode. Tom Kelly's pretty hard on himself for that decision in his book on moon lander development.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[ealar dlanvuli]

This brings up a good point, is it possible to complete *any* construction/engineering project without any duct tape?

I'd venture to guess negative, but if someone can prove that it's possible to build anything w/o the use of the holy matter, please do so :)

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[anarchima]

"...originally, the likes of Apple and HP were garage start ups."

There is a significant difference between a couple of people designing a craft for space flight and a couple of people designing a personal computer. Hopefully, the computer will not explode on start :P

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[nucrash]

Real Engineers, like the ones I work with. Like one who invited me over to his house to help him figure out why an iMAC couldn't connect to the internet. Only after I arrived to find out that the overpaid oaf first tried jumping on the net with another computer already connected to the ISP on that same phoneline, as well as the phone cord going from the RJ-11 port on the iMAC to a RJ-45 jack on the NIC, instead of to the wall. I think I would rather leave my life in the hands of some farm boy. He would probably remember to put life support onboard.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Pii]

Why is it that Marxism/Communism can only exist when it is enforced in oppressive authoritarian dictatorships? Because human nature causes most people to think only of themselves, their immediate friends, family, and about two generations of children ahead.

Exactly... Marxism/Communism is an unworkable system because it runs contradictory to human nature. Why not let the discussion end there? People are not programmed to show the same amount of concern for a complete stranger as they would a family member, or a friend. That's simply how we work.

Also, don't fool yourself into believing that you, as a self-proclaimed socialist, are any different from a marxist. You're not. Individual rights are cast aside by socialists and marxists. Some would argue that it's a matter of degree. I make no distrinctions... You are either for, or against, individual rights. Once you cross the line, you've chosen, and that's where you are.

You concede that Capitalism provides an excellent mechanism for balancing supply and demand, but you fail to recognize that it also seeks to minimize waste (In that it is more expensive to be wasteful, than not to be. Inefficiency is penalized in Capitamism, in the form of increased costs of production.). Take two companies providing an identical product, selling for an identical price as an example. Which of them will win out in the end? The one which can best utilize it's materials, minimizing the costs. They will be more profitable, and have the means to drive the other out of the marketplace.

Getting back to human nature, which economic system allows people the highest degree of freedom? Which allows the individual the greatest amount of personal choice? Which economic system demands the least amount of sacrifice?

I realize that from a detached perspective, such as that of a student engaged in scholarly pursuits, these questions seem somewhat less than noble, and that the "people must adjust their lifestyles for the greater good" position seems a perfectly reasonable stance. The reality is that only Capitalism respects the rights of the individual, and that "the greater good" is a myth used by those who seek power to influence those that are ruled.

We have seen the devastating results of socialism/marxism in practice. It results in the mismanagement of resources, including both raw materials, the means of production, and the application of labor. There is never going to be a 5 year plan that can successfully anticipate the needs of the moment. While capitalism cannot predict those needs either, it is certainly far more dynamic in responding to those needs once they are revealed.

Understand that the only "equality" that we should strive for is equality of opportunity. Beyond that, you'd like to see equality of outcome, and that is something that is never going to happen.

We, as people, are not equal. Some people are smarter than others. Some are stronger. Some are faster. Some are more creative.

These countless differences in people ensure that the various outcomes of our lives will vary tremendously. Capitalism allows people to make the best use of their individual, disparate talents, allowing us to be rewarded based on how useful our talents are to those seeking them. Beyond that, what else could be hoped for?

With that as a backgound, socialist schemes don't hold much appeal. If I put my talents to good use, and I can afford better health care than someone else, should I not be entitled to it? Health care, just like anything else, is a limited resource. Shouldn't price determine the allocation of that resource just as it does in any other market?

If not price, what else should be used? Need? Who determines the person in greater need? Is there a panel of experts? A single arbiter? Would there be a board of appeals? Is a street person more "needy" than someone that runs a company?

If there is some central controlling authority, is there any way to ensure that their influence isn't bought? How can we prevent corruption, or the playing of favorites?

You can't. It all comes back to the fact that socialism/communism is inherently unsuited to human nature. Life isn't fair, and people will never truly be equal. Capitalism makes the best of a bad situation, while allowing people the greatest amount of freedom, and opportunity, and for that reason, it is the best possible economic system for humankind.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[WNight]

On the subject of capitalism... I always find it amusing how die-hard capitalists insist that it's all fair labour that keeps them where they are, and then they insist on police protection and restrictive laws protection their business. Paid for, by the taxes of the lower classes.

If it was really a free, open market, they'd have to watch out for those they screwed over.

So really, these uber-independant capitalist businessmen can only thrive in an situation where they're being supported by the public.

IMHO I think a socialism, as currently practiced, is the only reasonable way in the long-term. Even if people should all succeed on their own merits, you can't expect the same of children. Schooling, nutrition, and the like are all very important. I'm not ready to damn the child because their parents are bad with money. If I dislike a welfare state I'd rather proactively make sure it doesn't perpetuate instead of just complaining about it. If that means I pay 50% tax instead of 25% and can live in a world where I won't get mugged to pay for someone's food, I'm okay with it.

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[NeMon'ess]

Thank you for replying. I forgot from my basic economics class how capitalism does penalize waste and that is a good thing. How do you feel about social services and programs such as welfare? Like you say I support giving every person equal opportunity. I may not have said it clearly or at all in my posts, but I'm under no illusions that all people are equal. If in my utopian future some people don't want to take part, then they don't get all, some, or any of the benefits. I don't know which.

To me welfare is good if it helps children have equal opportunity, and it gives parents a chance to get their life on track. As many states in the USA are doing, those benefits end after 5 years if the parent doesn't get on with their life. Thats fair to some degree.

What do you think of semi-socialist policies in Canada and northern European countries giving basic equal health care paid for by the upper classes?

Do you think my concerns about the environment are wrong? My figures off? Since we're both presumably concerned about the next two generations ahead of us, something ought to be done to help the planet and the lives of future generations, or are your grandchildren set for life already?

Re:I'll belive it when I see it.

[Pii]

Welfare programs have a couple of major strikes against them:

First, they are funded through taxes, which is a clever way of taking money from the people that are actually out there earning it, and giving it to those that aren't.

Second, the programs simply don't work.

Understand that there is a difference between welfare and unemployment. Unemployment is not taxpayer funded... It is paid by employers and employees (Paid by the employer, but the cost has a direct relation to the salaries that employees earn).

Unemployment insurance does what you described above. It helps people get through while looking for work.

Welfare, on the other hand, is not funded by the individuals that receive its assistance. You mention that some States have placed caps on welfare benefits. That represents a reform of the welfare system. It's a step in the right direction, and in the States where such a limitation exists, a greater percentage of the participants are able to get off the program, and become self-sufficient.

That fact alone speaks volumes about the net-effect of Johnson's "War on Poverty." Government subsidies do more harm than good. Entitlement programs victimize the very people that they are intended to help.

Earlier in America's history, there were no government entitlement programs. Instead, when a person or family needed help, they turned to friends, family, local charities, or other organizations in their community. Assistance came from people they knew, with names, and faces. There was a sense of obligation not only to return to self-sufficiency, but to repay the debt of gratitude in some way, because the help had come from the community.

Today, assistance comes to the mailbox, or is directly deposited into a bank account. There is little shame in it. There is nobody to say "thank you" to, nor is there any reason to feel a sense of shame.

I'll never forget watching a program like 60 minutes, or some such program, interviewing a person on public assistance. The lady was in Wisconsin, back when Tommy Thompson had just become Governor, and had implemented the 5 year welfare limitation. The lady was very angry... She actually referred to her benefits as her "salary," as though she had earned it. I have had a job since the age of 13. I worked all through high school, and all of my adult life. I cannot tell you how much it angered me to hear this lady upset that she was finally going to have to find a way to pay her own way through life.

But I don't want to turn this into a diatribe about some lady in Wisconsin...

All of the issues you raise untimately leave me flat because they are all forms of wealth redistribution. Welfare... National Health Care... Food Stamps... Blah, blah, blah...

Nothing in this life is free. Someone is paying. I am perfectly willing to pay my own way through life. Further, if there's something that I want, or even something that I need, I have no right to demand that you, or anyone else pay for it. The moment I try, or have the government do my bidding, then I have forfeit my own property rights.

Once you do that, you have mothing left. If you have no right to property, you have no freedom at all. Your labor can be seized... You can be conscripted into the military, or some other "publically worthwhile" cause. They can dictate what you read, or see, or listen to.

The point is that once you allow government to cross the line, they can redefine the line repeatedly, whenever "the masses" demand it.

That is the fundamental difference between a "Democracy" an a "Republic."

In a Democracy, government can undertake any activity, so long as it has the support of the majority. It is, in essence, mob rule.

In a Republic, there are limitations on what a government can undertake, no matter what popular opinion may be at the moment. A government has a Charter, and it may not exceed the limits of that charter.

It is for that reason that a Republic is the only form of government worthy of consideration for a people that ascribe the rights theory.

Now bringing it around to your questions about the environment, sure, I want my children to be able to grow up in a world with fresh air, and clean water, and I want that for their children as well.

Does that mean that I think the only way to get there is by placing artificial limits on the quality of life for people in the United States, or anywhere else in the world? Of course not.

The answer lies not in turning back the clock. It lies in making the breakthroughs that allow us to elevate the rest of the world to our standard of living, and do so in such a way as to ensure the long term survival of the species.

It means ending the witch hunt against nuclear power, which remains the most efficient, and cleanest means of meeting our energy demands. It also means finding a better way to manage the waste that is produced. We need to begin testing the second generation of nuclear power... Why haven't we built a pebble-bed reactor? No possibility of melt-down... Dramatically reduced amount of waste material... Same amount of power output.

These things should be popping up all over the place until we can find a safe way to harness fusion power.

Also recognize that they age of oil is coming to a close. Fuel-cells will be taking off 10 years from now. They'll be fairly common 15 years from now.

The problems we face environmentally have solutions. We need to refine the solutions that we've already uncovered, and we need to discover the solutions that yet remain. Don't hamstring humanity in the interim...

It's very easy for the "have-nots" or the "have-lesses" to cry foul, and demand that first world nations abandon centuries of human progress. Our ancestors worked hard to provide the foundation upon which we stand. I don't think it's time to jump off.

Besides, there's an asteroid coming in 2019. Bask in excess while you can. The sky is falling!

HP engines.....

[digitallis]

Interesting that they want to use HP engines. Last I checked, these were smaller engines used simply for course correction. (aren't the OMS engines on the Shuttle hydrogen peroxide?) The logistics of a directed hypergolic reaction outside of the microgravity of space must be an interesting on as well. (How they plan to get enough of the stuff to take off....)

FOr that matter, I don't see any plans for an orbital insertion vehical/stage. The site isn't very clear on the business plan.

Re:HP engines.....

[Anonymous Coward]

The OMS is hydrazine based IIRC.

Re:HP engines.....

[Will_Malverson]

Hydrogen Peroxide + Kerosene, or possibly something else. A pure H2O2 engine has as its exhaust a 50/50 mixture of water and O2. Because of all that really hot O2, you can put just about anything combustible in the chamber and it will burn.

Re:HP engines.....

[WolfWithoutAClause]

Actually, Hydrogen Peroxide is an ok/poor fuel on its own, but mixed with a hydrocarbon like Kerosene it's probably capable of making orbit in a single stage.

In some ways it's better than LOX- it's 'specific impulse density' is slightly higher than LOX. This means you get more kick per unit volume of tank (although it is heavier too). However, since rockets are mostly tanks, it's not a silly fuel.

In normal applications HP ("HTP") is used for attitude jets because it is a 'storable propellent'. This means that you can put it in a tank and leave it there for over a year without any big issues. LOX evaporates. Also HTP is a monopropellent, so it's fairly easy to work with.

The Space Shuttle uses storable propellent for its OMS engines, although not HTP. Some russian rockets use HTP as a fuel to run their turbopumps IRC.

Re:HP engines.....

[sconeu]

HP engines aren't any good since Carly took over. THey should use IBM engines instead.
</HUMOR>

As required by the Americans with Disabilities Act, HUMOR tags have been added for the humor impaired.

Re:HP engines.....

[qubit64]

So if I'm bored some day I go pick up some hydrogen peroxide, mix it with kerosene, and make some sort of remote detonation device and head over to the other side of the beach?

Re:HP engines.....

[WolfWithoutAClause]

Nah. Stuff you get over the counter is at the very most 70%; probably more like 35%, but in any case its loaded with stabilisers and topped up with water. The stuff for rocketry has no stabilisers, and no water, it's also very difficult to get hold of- almost no one will sell it to you.

Anything below 72% has too much water in it to react well, it gives you damp steam with some O2 mixed in. It will burn Kero, but not well.

Re:HP engines.....

[Will_Malverson]

So if I'm bored some day I go pick up some hydrogen peroxide, mix it with kerosene, and make some sort of remote detonation device and head over to the other side of the beach?

Well, maybe. The "Hydrogen Peroxide" you can buy at the drug store is 97% water and 3% H2O2.

But, let's say that you can find someone to sell you some High Test Peroxide (usually around 85%, but sometimes up to 97% H2O2). They're going to be incredibly unstable once you mix them -- a standard rule of H2O2 safety is to not put it in any container that's ever had hydrocarbons in it.

Re:HP engines.....

[qubit64]

Okay that's the answer I was looking for. Essentially, no, unless I want to lose my eyebrows. (Or worse)

Re:HP engines.....

[Anonymous Coward]

The hydrogen peroxide you get at the store is 3% hydrogen peroxide, rest water, and maybe a bit of salt (so saline solution, eh.) 30% H2O2 will melt your skin off faster than any acid you could hope to find. It's shipped in very thick plastic container (brown to keep the UV out of it, makes H2O2 turn to water + oxygen really fast), with about 3" of solid styrofam packing around it, then a cardboard box. It's very serriously nasty stuff, and at concetrations of more than 35% will turn to water on it's own, given enough vibration, heat or sunlight.

Re:HP engines.....

[WolfWithoutAClause]

Yeah, but they do sell stronger stuff for some limited applicability- I think you can buy the 35% stuff in small bottles for bleaching wood.

The 30+% H2O2 is not quite as bad as you say; it is better than most acids, but you don't mess around with it- it certainly can kill you. I heard of one guy that got covered with the stuff- he was hosed down, ripped off all his clothes and got hosed down some more; and he was completely OK, except he was a bit white for a few days (as was everyone else around him, but for a different reason! ;-)

Rocket Jump

[red5]

Space tourism. w00t!

Just so long as it doesn't involve a rocket jump.

Re:Rocket Jump

[Soul-Burn666]

It can also be a grenade jump with quad damage.
OR he can just change sv_gravity to -10 or something until you reach space.

Actually, I'm not sure it's possible. I've tried that using the Quake engine and always found out that even tho it looks like space, it's just a wallpaper stuck to cube.

I guess real astronauts use NoClip cheats...

Carmack's Junkard Wars

[Thenomain]

You know, I like Junkyard Wars, but I wouldn't want to risk my life to it.

The post 'cause it's slashdotted.

[Mifflesticks]

Other/Other - None 8 August 2002
The Armadillo Rocketeers

You'll believe an armadillo can fly

In Mesquite, Texas, a small group of technicians and enthusiasts is quietly working to open space to the general public. Armadillo Aerospace is one of a growing number of start-up ventures attempting to accomplish what NASA and the big aerospace companies refuse to do: send paying passengers from all walks of life into space to find their destiny or to have a bit of fun.

Computer games guru John Carmack started Armadillo Aerospace to fill the void--literally and figuratively--left by space agencies and defense conglomerates.

"I first got bit by the space bug about two and a half years ago," says Carmack, "largely due to the Space Frontier Foundation's CATS prize."

The CATS (Cheap Access To Space) Prize was offered to the first private group to build and launch a simple unpiloted rocket to the edge of space (100 kilometers, roughly 62.5 miles). The CATS Prize competition lasted only a limited time, and as no team reached the desired altitude, the prize was never awarded. But several teams made significant progress in high-altitude rocketry in the attempt.

"I didn't have the skills to actually compete at the time," says Carmack, "but I funded the last year of work for two of the teams (JP Aerospace and SORAC) while I was building my knowledge base. When I was ready to start pursuing my own projects, I contacted the local high-power rocketry society to see if there were any local people interested in working at the high end of experimental rocketry."

With that, Carmack began assembling his team. Through the aforementioned high-power rocketeers, he met Phil Eaton, who had been working with Russ Blink on experimental hydrogen peroxide rockets. Eaton brought in Neil Milburn and Joseph LaGrave. Carmack then drafted his Ferrari mechanic, Bob Norwood, to help out. Today, Armadillo Aerospace includes two more members and, according to their web site (www.armadilloaerospace.com), an armadillo named Widget. The staff (except, presumably, Widget) got to work not only on designing but also building rocket vehicles.

Recently, Armadillo Aerospace has built and flown several small, unpiloted vertical takeoff and landing ( VTVL) craft for low-altitude testing. The Armadillo team has chosen to start their development program using simple hydrogen peroxide rockets, not too different from the propulsion system used in the "rocket belt" jet packs of the 1960s. This simplifies development while the team uses the landers to perfect their flight control system.

"Our entire three-axis, stabilized propulsion system is less complicated than a single one of XCOR's LOX/alcohol engines," says Carmack, who is an investor in XCOR and supports their work. But, Carmack says, "we are taking complimentary directions to space."

Armadillo is now developing a piloted lander scaled up from the smaller craft. "I would not expect anyone to go higher than about 50 feet with it," says Carmack. "In theory, it could build up about 100 m/s velocity if flown flat out, but that would be a bad idea, given the lack of streamlining."

The X-Prize, the US$10 million award for the first private team to send paying passengers on a sub-orbital spaceflight, then do it again two weeks later, is Armadillo Aerospace's ultimate goal--one that John Carmack thinks he may have a shot at winning. But the team first plans to cut its teeth on several additional vehicles. "Our first streamlined tubular vehicle will be flying soon (unmanned)," says Carmack, "but it will only go a few thousand feet high. The next vehicle will be a manned vehicle aimed at breaking the low altitude time-to-climb record. After that will probably be a vehicle aimed at a single-man space shot. Then it will be time for an X-Prize vehicle."

The program reflects a conservative build-and-test strategy for winning the X-Prize. "The teams that think they are going to build an X-Prize vehicle on their first try are kidding themselves," warns Carmack. "Mistakes will be made, and it is much better to make mistakes with smaller vehicles than larger vehicles."

Each vehicle teaches Armadillo Aerospace what to do and what not to do in building and flying a tourist rocketship, from perfecting the attitude control system to selecting the right design for the landing gear. "We hope to be proving our laser altimeter based auto-hover and auto-land soon," says Carmack.

While development of the interim vehicles is underway, Armadillo's engineers are already designing the X-Prize vehicle. "We have already gone through two prospective designs," says Carmack, "so there is a high likelihood that what we are currently thinking is not what we will be building in 2004."

The vehicle will most likely be vertical takeoff and landing, and it will probably use hydrogen peroxide and kerosene, though Armadillo is also working with other propellant combinations. "We have not nailed down exactly what combination of parachute / rocket thrust / rocket rotor will be used for descent," says Carmack. "We will be learning a lot with our upcoming test vehicles."

The 2000's are an exciting time for commercial spaceflight. The dream of access to space for everyone is becoming reality. And Armadillo Aerospace plans that one of the pioneering companies to open this new frontier will include on its staff an armadillo called Widget.

AB 8 August 2002

Yes, I am a karma whore

Isn't this illegal?

[Anonymous Coward]

If not then it ought to be. Same goes for regular small model rockets available at hobby shops and other places. It's dangerous and should be outlawed.

Re:Isn't this illegal?

[Mr2cents]

If not then it ought to be. Same goes for regular small model rockets available at hobby shops and other places. It's dangerous and should be outlawed.

Are you serious? When did 'dangerous' become 'illegal'? And when did you get to decide what's dangerous and what not? Is crossing the road illegal? It can be quite dangerous you know!

Anyway, I've visited some amateur rocket launches and I can tell you safety measures are strict. When you know what can go wrong, you have the key to make it safe, wheither it's about crossing the road or handling explosives. (I've still got all my fingers!)

Re:Isn't this illegal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is crossing the road illegal?

In some places, yes.

Re:Isn't this illegal?

[RocketGeek]

No it's not illegal. Neither, sadly, is making stupid remarks like "If not, then it ought to be".

Exactly what insightful analysis did you use to come to the conclusion that it is dangerous and should be outlawed ?

Re:Isn't this illegal?

[WolfWithoutAClause]

If not then it ought to be. Same goes for regular small model rockets available at hobby shops and other places. It's dangerous and should be outlawed.

The FAA has taken jurisdiction of the 'problem'. You can't launch anything without a license. That goes for aeroplanes too; and the commonality is pretty close, provided they are manned. The rocket community takes safety very seriously. Incidentally, the government has banned launches by American citizens anywhere in the world without a launch license; but launch licenses are available for people that can show they know what they are doing.

Bottom line- no it's not dangerous; the FAA are very paranoid.

Re:Isn't this illegal?

[Anonymous Coward]

speed limits are there for a reason...

Re:Isn't this illegal?

[khallow]

I think the original poster wasn't serious. There's a lot of good things about rocketry that justify the danger. Further, as you remark on, these guys take themselves seriously.

Re:Isn't this illegal?

[zapfie]

Um, crossing the road IS illegal in some places, usually where it is dangerous. Try running back and forth across a highway a few times, and see how the police react.

To your other point, dangerous becomes illegal when it begins to threaten others or their property. Simple as that.

Re:Isn't this illegal?

[Mr2cents]

Of course, but launching Estes rockets isn't allowed everywhere either. I know I cannot launch those at the fields near my house because airplaines fly over at less than 300 meters. It's pretty logical.

Re:Isn't this illegal?

[dbretton]

Are you serious? When did 'dangerous' become 'illegal'?

When 'dangerous' can imply harm and injury to others, and sometimes yourself. It is illegal, in most states, for a citizen to discharge a firearm in public. It is illegal to drive recklessly.

Is crossing the road illegal? It can be quite dangerous you know!

Yes, it can be quite dangerous. And yes, it is illegal in many areas. It is called jaywalking. Crossing a busy intersection became a very dangerous activity, so some smart people got together and identified and marked areas on the road where people may cross the road with a mitigated risk. These areas are called 'crosswalks' (insert Dr. Evil finger quotes). A pedestrian in one of these 'crosswalks' (finger quotes) has the right of way, and motorists must yield to the pedestrian.

Anyway, getting back to the original post. Yes, it is illegal to run off and launch a craft into sub-orbital space. Why? Because it is dangerous. What if some yahoo decided to launch his garage rocket from his backyard, which is located next to LAX (Los Angeles airport)? He could hit something or kill someone! Not a good idea.

These rocket-heads have to acquire the appropriate permissions and clearances before firing off their garage rockets. At the least, I would assume that they need to get FAA clearance, which would involve providing them with a launch and flight plan. In addition, they would probably have to get clearance from the local authorities for both the launch and landing sites. They would also probably have to pay out of pocket expenses to have fire and ambulance personnel available, yadda yadda yadda

-D

Re:Isn't this illegal?

[zapfie]

Agreed.. the original parent to your post was pretty stupid to say model rockets should be outlawed in general.

A Rocket Scientist?!?

[Jagasian]

So his day job involves being one of the world's best software engineers... and in his spare time he is a rocket scientist? Someone tell God to spread the smarts around, ok? Maybe the Joe-sixpacks and Soccer-moms could get a little?

Re:A Rocket Scientist?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

If i'm not mistaken, Offspring's singer has a PhD in Nuclear Physics.

Re:A Rocket Scientist?!?

[Soul-Burn666]

In his spare time??
Have you even played Quake online in your life?? The weapon dominating 90% of time is the rocket launcher, and guess who engineered it into the game...

Re:A Rocket Scientist?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, rocket launcher and lightning gun, yes.
And that's the way it should be, look at Quake3 for a big example of a way NOT to design a game.
Overbalanced weapons are LAME.

Re:A Rocket Scientist?!?

[Jagasian]

The most used weapon in Quake online professional duels is the lightning gun. Second most used weapon is the rocket launcher. So get your facts straight. Weapon balance might sound like a good idea, but in fact, it sucks.

Re:A Rocket Scientist?!?

[Soul-Burn666]

Many of the games are in pro-q3tourney4 (Vertical Limit II) which doesn't even HAVE the LG. And if you want to get YOUR facts straight, you should know the RG is used more than the LG. RG is used more than RL in maps without LG.

The CATS Prize?

[ArsSineArtificio]

Presumably to be award to those on their way to destruction, or possibly those who have no chance to survive make their time.

Re:The CATS Prize?

[Anonymous Coward]

Better not name it that; we'd be ticked off if someone set up them the bomb...

directions to space

[kyras]

But, Carmack says, "we are taking complimentary directions to space."

I hope those directions are up.

Re:directions to space

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually "up" is the wrong direction to go. If you only go up you'll come back down again.

If you want to get into orbit, you basically have to go "across" to increase you speed relative to the ground.

If you look at any space launch you'll see (after the initial ascent) the rocket flying more horizontally than vertically.

Re:directions to space

[NeMon'ess]

not if the orbit is geostationary. just keep going 90 degrees away from the planar-tangent of the launch pad.

Re:directions to space

[Bingo Foo]

not if the orbit is geostationary. just keep going 90 degrees away from the planar-tangent of the launch pad.

Nope. The best path to geosynchronous orbit is not a straight line. You conserve fuel and pick the desired longitude by beginning with an elliptical orbit.

I'm a liberal/socialist, no commie tho. Help me. Read my journal.

So in addition to your misunderstanding of physics, you don't get human nature, economics, or spelling? At least you recognize that you need help. That's the first step.

Why not call it...

[Valar]

the BFR (big f-ing rocket).

Hey! Maybe....

[Salad Shooter]

John Romero will for a failing space flight program based in Dallas to compete with Caramack!

I wonder if Romero can tuck all that hair inside a space helmet?

So what? this technology is already available!

[skrew]

Quad rocket jumping on DM3, you can take the whole map with you...except of course, they won't survive the jump! hahaa

Re:So what? this technology is already available!

[Yarn]

Sure you will, just grab the pent' first.

launch procedure

[tabby]

1 - Look down at your feet
2 - Jump and fire rocket at same time ...
3 - ???
4 - PROFITS!!!
(sorry couldn't resist)

Re:launch procedure

[Anonymous Coward]

at least do it right you jackass, 1 is idea, 2 is ???, 3 is profit (not profits)

I.E.

1 - Look down at your feet as you jump and fire rocket at same time ...
2 - ???
3 - PROFIT!!!

get it right!

Re:launch procedure

[Anonymous Coward]

Tabby's post was funnier. Jackass.

Re:launch procedure

[Anonymous Coward]

none of them are funny. that joke is so fucking old now and has been for a while. some idiot moderator will probably mod it up though.

Re:launch procedure

[zephc]

for warp travel, the 3-step plan:

1. matter/anti-matter reaction
2. ???
3. ship goes fast!, err, PROFIT!

Re:launch procedure

[Anonymous Coward]

i wasnt trying to be funny, jackass. i was just pointing out that he was a dumbass who cant get a fucking 3 step plan correct from a southpark episode.

Re:launch procedure

[tabby]

you can all bite me.

jeez some people are touchy

Re:launch procedure

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, your post is funniest. (dick)

The George Lincoln Rockwell interview

[Anonymous Coward]

I have only been able to find four songs on George Lincoln Rockwell and
his Hatenanny Records label. "Ship Those Niggers Back" and "Non-violent
Niggers" were performed by Otis and the Three Bigots. Here is an
interesting bit of GLR's Playboy interview concerning one of these songs:

PLAYBOY: Is mail-order hate literature your main source of income?

ROCKWELL: That, plus initiation fees from new members; plus small
donations from those who believe in what we're trying to do; plus the
proceeds from special events like one of our "hate-nannies."

PLAYBOY: What are they?

ROCKWELL: Big musical jamborees. We hold them on patriotic holidays.

PLAYBOY: Would you give an example of a hate-nanny lyric?

ROCKWELL: Sure. Remember, you asked for it: "Ring that bell, shout for
joy ... white man's day is here ... Gather all those equals up ... Herd
them on the pier ... America for whites ... Africa for blacks ... Send
those apes back to the trees ... Ship those niggers back ... Twenty
million ugly coons are ready on their pier ... America for whites ...
Africa for blacks ... Ring that bell, shout for joy ... The white man's
day is here ... Hand that chimp his ugly stick ... Hand that buck his
spear ..." That's just the first part of that song. Do you want to hear
more of it?

PLAYBOY: No, we get the general idea.

Joint effort?

[Kaz Riprock]

Armadillo Aerospace...not to be confused with Brian Walker, the OTHER backyard rocket guy.

Maybe these two should sit down and just *talk* about rocketing to outer space in a tin can built for two.

At least Walker isn't advocating that someone *else* sit in his fuel-powered deathtrap.

Re:Joint effort?

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah but walker is a dyslexic retarded fuckhead who doesnt know what 2+2 is. Carmack is a genius programmer with money, ideas, math skills, and can read. Id be proud to ride on carmacks rocket (shh that isnt meant to be sexual), i wouldnt even want to be near walkers,itll probably explode and kill all the viewers and him.

Re:Joint effort?

[enneff]

Perhaps you should do some research, or even read Slashdot more often. In a Slashdot Interview, Walker mentioned his meeting John Carmack, etc.

Personally, I'd trust myself with Carmack's work over this Walker guy's any day. Carmack is methodical, intelligent, observant, and based on the news archive at Armadillo very careful.

Re:Joint effort?

[Kaz Riprock]

Nothing that I wrote precludes them having met in the past. When you assume, you make an ASS out of U not ME.

The point is that even the careful, methodical, intelligent, observant among us aren't appropriately skilled to strap people in for money and toss them into the stratosphere.

This is Major Tom to Ground Controooollll....

MOD parent DOWN, karma whore loser

[Anonymous Coward]

the article is not slashdotted, as least check through a proxy before you post a mirror. Just cause your network connection is fucked doesnt mean everyones is, I read the article and i dont like having to see it again and waste time downloading your post.. karma whore, mod parent down

why?

[skydude_20]

because he secretly knows that the story line in Quake(II mostly) isn't fake, and that he knows we need a to hurry up with any kind of space flight systems development for hope of beating the aliens many years from now

Re:First mental feeb post

[Anonymous Coward]

This is slashdot.

We all know Carmack is doing it..

[Anonymous Coward]

so he can be the first gamer in space. "w00t.. quad rocket jump rail from space!" He'll play for 5 minutes then realize his arm gets too sore from holding down the mouse against the pad in zero G.

then he'll create a new company to create devices for the masses who wants to lan from space.

chuckle

[Vodak]

cramck just wants to use the phrase

"TO THE MOON ALICE!"

The part I'm most pleased about...

[DarkHelmet]

Is not quite so much what he can achieve through this company, but what the project contributes to his first love: gaming.

From a programming standpoint, Quake 3 is a marvel, but I wouldn't exactly call it a marvel in game physics. The game relies mostly on characters within bounding boxes. There isn't much interaction with the environment other than shooting at objects, jumping, or falling.

From a physics standpoint, the most impressive things about the Quake series is most likely its lighting. Even though this is a pre-calculated lightmap, radiosity isn't really a simple thing.

Trespasser was years ahead of Quake in this area. Boxes would shatter, and each pieces of wood would scatter everywhere. Too bad the game didn't do much else right.

Doom 3 is supposed to be worlds better. Enemies are supposed to be able to fall down steps, more interaction, etc.

Remember that the Graphics Engine for Doom was done a while back, around the time he started Armadillo Airspace. Think about what's left for him to explore. AI and Game Physics are two big regions.

I'm expecting Doom 3 to be a lot of things that all other Id games weren't. AA plays a big part of my expectations.

Re:The part I'm most pleased about...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to add a few points. Chrysler used to make great automobiles. Then Toyota made better ones. Sometimes when I order a big mac the lettuce has fallen out of the bun. Then I ask myself, why didn't I just make Kraft Dinner? But seriously, I read the article and decided that someday I would like an optical mouse from Logitch. This would really make it easier to play Counterstrike. I am especially excited about Counterstrike with antialiasing.

Re:The part I'm most pleased about...

[James Foster]

Boxes did not shatter in Trespasser.
Pieces of wood and the crates in the game were seperate things, and they did not become each other.

Trespasser had impressive physics, only if you could see past the bugs. The bugs were the worst part of Trespasser. The physics especially was riddled with bugs. Quake's physics was primitive, but it was quite solid. [except for bunny hopping...]

Re:The part I'm most pleased about...

[Soul-Burn666]

In the game Red Faction, there was the most impressive physics I've seen yet in a First Person Shooter with the world changing when you shot it (until some depth :(( ). Lets say there was a door and rock around it, why opening the door, if u can blast your way around it :). You could shoot a pillar and it would fall correctly (well, 95% of the time). It was possible and cool, but sadly for the game, it wasn't used enough.

On a side point, the quake engine "exploits" which allowed StrafeJumping, BunnyHopping, RampJumping, etc.. is one of the things that actually made it more popular for hardcore gamers, it gave them an advantage which needed much skill to perform. In fact, they knew it was like that in the Q2 engine and even made it easier in the Q3 engine. Rumors say it won't be like that in Q4 tho.

Onboard Railguns?

[infonography]

Well I can hope can't I?

Re:Hillary's Amerika is closer than you think

[Anonymous Coward]

So, I don't normally feed the trolls, but just out of curiosity are you a lone deranged nutcase or are you a Republican infowar attack robot? I mean, in the middle of the Shrub-led total attack on everything America ever stood for, the gutting of the Constitution in favour of a police state, and the replacement of an internationally responsible nation with vastly empowered international thuggery, the falling away of allies left and right, and the destruction of just about everything that people ever admired about America, how is it that you can in good conscience attack the Democrats for "plotting" the kinds of things that Dubya and his cronies are actually doing right now?

People need to start calling out the Republicans on this nonsense. Just because you can wrap yourselves in the flag doesn't mean you know what the fuck it's for. Republicans have regularly raped everything that actually means anything in America, and appear to think they're immune to criticism just because they sing the Stars and Stripes while they do it. New flash chums - you're the actual traitors to the republic. The Empire may be your creation, but the fathers of the country would vomit on your principles.

Sounds like a job for Art Bell

[Anonymous Coward]

John should get in touch with rocket entrepreneur Art Bell. Promoting John Carmack's venture could really use the help of Art Bell He has an excellent track record of publicizing unorthodox space ventures. And Art Bell is one of the few venues which will reach a larger audience than Slashdot! For those unfamiliar with Art Bell, he hosts a nightly radio show which is heard worldwide. It is devoted to space exploration and "midnight" engineering.

Those were the days

[Corbin Dallas]

I remember building model rockets back in the 8th grade. Mine wasn't the best painted, and it's fins weren't perfectly straight, but it flew and I had a lot of fun. I guess I needed this article to remind me of that. Thanks John ( and Slashdot ).

So, anyone have any links for someone looking to get into amature rockets?

Re:Those were the days

[jeboyer]

So, anyone have any links for someone looking to get into amature rockets?

I'm not sure what you classify as amatuer, but the two biggest "consumer" (essentially for stuff you can buy commercially) organizations for model and high-power rocketry are

National Association of Rocketry

Tripoli Rocketry Association

Re:Those were the days

[Anonymous Coward]

Amateur rocktery is alive and well. For over 5 years, aRocket is the general amateur rocketry group. You will find Carmack and hundreds of others often posting to the aRocket Forum.

Re:Hey! Maybe....

[Anonymous DWord]

It's ok, he got a haircut. The question is, can he tuck all that ego inside a space helmet?

Oh ,the bitterness!

[Junks Jerzey]

I know I'm going to get modded down for this, but it has to be said:

1. Enough with the negativity about this kind of thing being better left to the professionals. Do you really think that the professionals can do any better? It's not like NASA has been pounding out the new rocket designs. You have to give Carmack credit in that he's experimenting and moving forward rather than getting bogged down in bureacracy and corporate politics.

2. DOOM 3 shouldn't even be mentioned here. It's not like there's any kind of real overlap between rocketry and game development. I love the guy who seems to think that Carmack will now understand physics better so he can put it to good use in DOOM 3. Bizarre.

Re:Oh ,the bitterness!

[guybarr]

Enough with the negativity

rocketry is DANGEROUS, caution and skepticism are not negative, they are an asset. (you don't want the thing dropping on bystanders head, right ? )

about this kind of thing being better left to the professionals.

Of course the R&D team should be made primarily of prefessionalists (see above). But except for carmack and, perhaps, Widget the armadillo, my guess is most of the team IS made of professionalists.

Do you really think that the professionals can do any better?

again, in such areas only professionals can do any good, but they should work in an environment encouraging both real progress and methodical, rational QA.

You have to give Carmack credit in that he's experimenting and moving forward

no disagreement from me, any man making such a move deserves my respect.

good luck for his team and the others (serious) teams working on such projects. Their success are the human race's .

He's really just trying to...

[i.r.id10t]

... recruit some Space Marines to go fight the Strogos for him or something...

It sounds to me like...

[detritus.]

Maybe Commander Keen has finally gone to John's Head....

Billy Blaze, eight year-old genius, working diligently in his backyard clubhouse has created an interstellar starship from old soup cans, rubber cement and plastic tubing. While his folks are out on the town and the babysitter has fallen asleep, Billy travels into his backyard workshop, dons his brother's football helmet, and transforms into...

COMMANDER KEEN--defender of Earth!

In his ship, the Bean-with-Bacon Megarocket, Keen dispenses galactic justice with an iron hand!

This is disturbing

[Mr. Grimm]

Am I the only one who doesn't think the guy who made games about demons coming from a space base should be the one helping to fund tourist space shuttle trips?

Direct Quote From the Web Site:

[mark_space2001]

Cut and paste from the web site:

/.'d

Too many users... blah blah blah

Try again in a few minutes...

-xian@idsoftware.com

lol!

anyone can be a rocket scientist

[lingqi]

Someone tell God to spread the smarts around, ok?

Come on -- I can be twice the rocket-scientist he is, given enough dough. It's not the smarts that needs to be spread around (I would wager that many /.ers are capable of exactly what Carmack is doing, if not more), it's rather the tens of millions of disposable income that he has but we do not that's keeping us from similar (possibly - make that undoubtedly - better rocket projects)

for most of us -- by the time we have a tenth of that amount of money, we will have kids, family, and retirement to think about. Time, energy, and ambition all have gone down -- when you are worried about your teenage children and the abundance of E in raves, spare-time rocket-building take a backseat. Young + have money for an expensive hobby does not make you a good rocket-scientist by any means (even though i admire his spirit and all)

Re:Hey! Maybe....

[CoolVibe]

Romero also likes slow moving lifts... Won't a rocket ascend too fast for him? He might get giddy and complain about level design a lot. ;)

Better than nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

beats reading about new dvd standards or which os everybody is using.

Re:Better than nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

Another comment, same guy. People disagree with this project but come on, we have only one life I think we are all entitled to do whatever the hell we want to do with it.

Hmm

[ShooterNeo]

I think ole Carmack may have taken the concept of "rocket jumping" a little too far....

`Unconventional rocketry'?

[tuxedo-steve]

You mean, like, stomach-mounted rocket launchers? :)

wtf does carmac know about rockets?

[xshader]

in all versions of quake, rockets never really followed any real physics. they always flew at a constant speed, no matter how fast you were running (flying) while you launched them. doesnt he know the speed of the rocket should be rocket thrust speed + speed of person at time of launch?

Re:wtf does carmac know about rockets?

[crazney]

Did it occur to you that Carmack doesnt actually right the games, he writes the engines. The physics behind individual objects (rockets for example) would be coded by the game-creator.. not the engine-creator.

Re:wtf does carmac know about rockets?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maye its a little much to expect high performance and accurate rocket physics from a high performance game engine.

Or, as the somebody else pointed out, Carmack might have just made the engine and somebody else designed the rocket lancher and rockets.

Or maybe its because anyone who isn't a fuckhead with a large, dead animal up his ass doesn't give a shit.

Re:wtf does carmac know about rockets?

[Anonymous Coward]

Then tell me who is the "Game creator" at Id if not Carmack?

Re:wtf does carmac know about rockets?

[enneff]

David you idiot. Carmack wrote the Quake-C and other ingame code for Quake, Quake2, and Quake3, including the rocket physics.

I personally think that it would be retarded to add player movement to rocket movement, and it would remove a lot of the fun from the games.

Re:wtf does carmac know about rockets?

[xshader]

i think it would add more depth to the game, and make it more dynamic to play.

how would it remove fun from the game, when the game just gets more "real" and closer to how a rocket would actually fly?

Re:wtf does carmac know about rockets?

[Anonymous Coward]

In reality, a gun can kill a person with one shot. In reality, a shotgun has recoil. In reality, railguns don't exist (at least, not the kind that kill people.) In reality, people don't respawn.

Quake3 isn't a "real" game. CounterStrike or RTCW are pseudo-real games. Go bug Valve and Gray Matter.

Re:wtf does carmac know about rockets?

[xiana]

We experimented with adding the player velocity to the rocket velocity way back in QuakeWorld, and it just randomized play too much, and didn't quite look or feel right.

-Xian

Re:wtf does carmac know about rockets?

[Anonymous Coward]

doesnt he know the speed of the rocket should be rocket thrust speed + speed of person at time of launch?

No it woudn't be, as all the initial momentum transferred to the rocket by the person would be lost to air resistance quite quickly so although the initial launch speed would be slightly faster the rockets forward speed would quickly come to an equilibrium of the the the momentum provided by the engine relative to the drag through the air

Of course in space assuming no significant gravity you would be more correct, though I don't know many people hand launching rockets in space!

Re:wtf does carmac know about rockets?

[xshader]

why make doom2 after doom? why make quake2 after quake1? isn't it cus the graphics are more "realistic"? isnt that the whole point?

Re:wtf does carmac know about rockets?

[matts.nu]

Did you actually finish RTCW? There are plenty of sci-fi guns and strange creatures there, just like in any Doom/Quake game.

CS is pseudo-real.

Re:wtf does carmac know about rockets?

[WNight]

I imagine it's like localized damage. I coded a simple (height of the shot on the bounding box) damage routine for Q1 and it played well in developer test, but when users got to it they found it felt very random. Someone would run into a room and spray nails around. Two people would take a few and be moderately hurt, one guy would take a single nail and fall over dead just because he got it in the head.

More realistic I suppose, but for weapons that aren't aimed precisely it just didn't seem right.

Maybe with railguns / sniper rifles, if you could balance the gameplay issues of insta-hit, one-shot-kill...

Idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

"your" = posessive form of "you"
"you're" = "you are"

Pigs can learn to operate joysticks, yet human beings still can't figure this out. Morons.

That's kinda cool

[kosipov]

I think it is an interesting symbolism that Carmack is involved in design of rockets for cheap access to space.

In many science fiction books there are two trends for the near future (there are a lot more but these are two major ones). Distopia is typically presented by heavily cybernetic society where the humanity is not really concerned about space. The other trend, is diametrically opposite with humanity focused on space exploration.

Carmack is in a sense a protagonist of future distopia as a designer of cybernetic worlds that are becoming increasingly important to our society (graphics acceleration business, success of 3D animation, even the debates over the impact of the violence in video games). People like Carmack working on rockets is a sign that our future does not have to be a choice between space and cyberspace.

Re:That's kinda cool

[Anonymous Cow herd]

Distopia is typically presented by heavily cybernetic society where the humanity is not really concerned about space. The other trend, is diametrically opposite with humanity focused on space exploration.

I don't really think that these two are mutally exclusive in most of sci fi... the reason one or the other doesn't focus heavily in a book is generally because the other is highlit more importantly, by the focus of the store, while the other is taken "for granted". Or both are. Or one or the other doesn't exist (or sufficiently advanced, etc.. etc..).

Re:The myth of the holoacaust

[Anonymous Coward]

What about the filmed piles of bodies, then? Or the thousands upon thousands of Jews alive today who lost their parents and siblings in the holocaust? Or the war criminals who admitted to many of the atrocities?

Idiot.

One of these days, John....

[balthan]

BANG! ZOOM! Right to the moon!

The Difference

[namtog]

There is a big difference in "grey" tape. The most common type is duct, not duck, tape. This is what you find at your local hardware store. Yes, it has many uses.

Then there is gaffers tape, a much higher quality product. And, as you might guess more expensive.

Comments

[Tuna_Shooter]

Ya know it seems to me that jealousy of John's success at doing what we all would LIKE to be doing seems a prime motive for most of these comments posted on this topic.

Re:Comments

[Anonymous Coward]

>jealousy of John's success at doing what we all would LIKE to be doing

You won't get rich or famous by bitchin' on SlashDot. Perhaps the people here prefer bitching.

I'm a critic. You're a critic. Move along. Nothing to see.

Leave it to the pros?

[Pedrito]

Who are the pros? NASA? These guys can't get their metric/English units converted properly in their software. I doubt Carmack would make that mistake. The European Space Agency? They put the wrong software in an Arianne rocket which ended in its destruction.

Seems to me there's plenty of room for "non" professionals in the field because the pros are making plenty of stupid moves.

Kind of reminds me of my boss. Our software has a wide range of applications but he wants to stick to areas where we have "niche knowledge." Well, the fact is, we won't get "niche knowledge" in other niches unless we actually apply it to other areas. Want to become a pro? You gotta be a novice first. Kudos to Carmack.

To hell with NASA

[Julian Morrison]

NASA is the problem - go read Kings of the High Frontier to understand the solution.

Re:Rocket's Brown Glare

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to ask, why was this writen?

Dosen't it disturb you writing this stuff?

Where are the Joke Posts?

[dbretton]

All of the /. joke posters must be home alone, chugging beers until their world becomes a haze of barley and hops and passes out.

Why do I say this? Because there are NO Carmack/Quake/Rocketry jokes.

Like:

New Poll:
Name of Carmack's first rocket:

FragFest
Pineapple Express
HAB (High Altitude Bastard)
RJ-101
BFR (Big F*n Rocket)
Doom-ed
CowboyNeal!

Or... "I hope that he leaves /noclip on with these rockets!"

Or... "What's the code to turn godmode on in his rocketship?"

Or... "Will he call the rockets that crash WADs?"

Or... "To Hell with outfitting the ship with a BFG, I'll be happy if he puts in a BFP (Big F*n Parachute)."

Or... "If the ship's AI is the same as the Quake bots, then I think I'll stick to driving"

Or... "Will a little network jack icon appear just before you crash and die?"

OT: Sig response.

[EastCoastSurfer]

I personally want to show up on E's Wild On, but hey thats just me ;)

"English" measurements?

[Type-IIa]

Don't blame the English, who converted to metric measurements, along with the rest of the civilised world, 50 years ago. The only thickos left using Imperial measurements are the Yanks, who persist despite the glaringly obvious disadvantages, supposedly because they think it's a commie plot. Typical Dumbasses.

Re:"English" measurements?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hah. The eurocunts can't even get a man into space. We have probes that have left the solar system

Best programmer flame war

[cardshark2001]

I remember the subject of who was the best programmer or type of programmer coming up many times on slashdot. I remember that many said Carmack for quake 3. I'm not sure I agree, but I also remember people saying that Carmack had nothing on the NASA guys, and to them he was some ignorant rube.

Well, if Carmack gets his rocket into space, I think we need to see a NASA guy build the fastest texture mapped 3d engine. To be sure.

The engine is done already

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember watching an interview with Carmack, made on the last game show. He said the engine is done, and I guess he is now just waiting for the rest of the gang to finish the monsters and the levels and all the other art. Now that is what really takes time.

H2O2 affects on skin

[HopeOS]

I work with H2O2 regularly and I can tell you from experience that concentrations of 50% and down are comparatively benign. Concentrations of 30% and 50% will give you a nasty white rash if you come in contact with them. The rash forms within about 10 seconds of contact, faster if the concentration is higher. The rash last for anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour and then goes away. Meanwhile, the skin remains tender for some time afterwards.

Concentrations exceeding approximately 74% require more care and consideration, both in storage and handling.

-Hope