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Build a Macintosh From Scratch
An anonymous reader writes "MacOpz has posted a great step-by-step tutorial on building your own G4-based Macintosh from scratch. This article includes where to get parts, what modifications must be performed, and tons of photographs. A must-read for anyone that wants a Mac but doesn't want to pay Apple prices."
wow, i wonder what the commercial applications of this are. dek take a pic :)
The problem is that when you sum up everything, you end up with something _more expensive_ than just buying it from Apple.
Oh and of course you also have to purchase MacOS.
{{.sig}}
I feel that many more people would use OSX if they could experiment with it without buying expensive hardware. Building your own mac is a step in the right direction, perhaps an open architecure. I know I would love to try OS X, as I feel it is far superior to windows from what I have seen. But I will never pay the $$ needed to try it. Oh well, I guess KDE will do.
If you add up the costs listed, it ends up cheaper than pre-built boxes from apple...
Really.. I swear..
I live in a giant bucket.
You can follow other people's progress here:
p c&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=4820959925
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=t
--- I do not moderate.
So couldn't a computer manufacturing company, who has these parts for ultracheap, start making Macs and selling them? Or possibly making Macs that run Linux, Windows, BeOS, whatever...
Oops!
Plant apple seed in ground.
Add water and fertilizer at regular intervals.
Remove weeds at regular intervals.
Eventually, you'll have an Apple.
RomSteady - I came, I saw, I tested. GamerTag: RomSteady / http://www.romsteady.net
It is a violation of the EULA for Mac OS to run it on any non-Apple-branded hardware. This goes for things like MOL too.
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
because lots of people (like me) prefer to use a mac after we discovered how great they actually run
it's not our fault that the only provider of hardware to run the OS charges really high prices
Paying to build a Mac from scratch? That's like buying parts and building a Fiat.
How does one build a Windows computer, and do you need to pay Microsoft even if you install Linux on it?
"The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
As a professional who relies on my Macintosh to generate income, the supposed "price premium" of Apple hardware over a build-it-yourself amounts to a half day's billing.
Add the time to build eating into billable hours, and it would come out as an expensive proposition.
There are lots of reasons to build a machine yourself- better control over the parts, getting a custom config that you can't easily buy, and saving money. I wager that most people's reason to buy a Mac- it works, out of the box, to make us money- is not really compatible with those ideals.
I do agree with one sentiment addressed in the story, and that's avoiding the outlandish prices Apple charges for standard parts such as RAM and hard disks. Most savvy Mac users buy base configs and then load up the RAM and HD's via cheaper, third party suppliers.
Marc Siry || interactive media professional, motorcycle enthusiast ||
How to build a PC:
1)Buy your stuff
2)Take your stuff out of the box
3)Plug in connectors where they fit
4)Turn on your new computer!
"Hey brother Christian with your high and mighty errand / your actions speak so loud I can't hear a word you're saying"
Glad to see someone is extending this brilliant principle to the Mac world.
Pay the fuck up!
Isn't the whole point of a mac the shinny case?
Despite their abhorrent control of the computing industry, I do not believe that my Micro$oft has gone quite so far as to control all manufacturers of all computer components to the extent of requiring windows on every computer.
However, if look at it from the angle that some hardware won't work on anything but windows, I guess you could see this as being true to some extent (depending on how rabid you are in the microsoft paranoia department). Luckily, as I'm sure some Linux type would be sure to tell me, this problem (typically driver-based) is steadily being eliminated by all those hard-working Open Sourcers out there.
"Hey brother Christian with your high and mighty errand / your actions speak so loud I can't hear a word you're saying"
OS X is a chance for the clones to come back: This German vendor is selling OS X compatible Umax clones with G4 CPUs for EUR 729+.
Fortunately, Dell worked around it by shipping boxes with a linux variant installed.
It's not paranoia if everyone is actually out to get you."Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
actually they used freedos, not a linux variant
The PC Case is just ugly. I'm considering to buy an iMac, partly because of it look, seriously. I'm a hardcore programmer. But Mac's look is just irresistible. I think the Unix core make it a partical machine for coding (besides web browsing, etc).
uh.. read the article. it's not 'building a g4 from scratch' so much as 'getting an apple mobo & other random g4 parts off ebay and mounting them in a pc case with some noisy fans', primarily because "it's impossible to use a Zip drive, CD-ROM, and DVD-ROM together in the same machine with any G4 that Apple has ever shipped".
this is a glorified case-mod project for a specific end use, not 'building a g4 from scratch'.
apple frequently dumps older systems at the education stores. about 5 monthes ago, stanford had G4/533/CD-RW/40GB + 17 inch LCD for 1249 (that is 350 added to the screen). other examples are 899 (same time) for iBook 600/DVD. all new machines.
Actually the base OS, darwin is . So it isnt "completely closed source".
Does anyone have any information on building a PC from scratch?
TomsHardware.com recently ran an article (with pictures) on how to build a PC yourself. It's really quite simple though. I have an abnormal fear of tools yet I've been building my own computers for 10 years. If you can install your own video card, you can build a computer.
It's a PC user's sentiment. Or a hobbyist who just wants to build a Mac. I might consider it. Of course, it would probably be smarter just to get a really low-end system from Apple and upgrade parts from Ebay. But hey, I'm a stupid PC user, so what do I know?
Danish != nationality
No, but as a matter of fact, you don't need to pay Microsoft whether you run Windows or not. At least, not if you purchase it as parts and assemble it yourself.
The reason why it's making so many headlines is because a "mainstream" Unix-based OS is finally emerging, vindicating all of us Linux/BSD geeks who loved Unix for all this time. MacOS X makes an okay Unix, but has a great GUI. Something the free desktop projects should think about emulating... oh, wait, they already are.
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
Ouch, given that an Athlon XP 2000+ can be had for under $100, it sounds like you're still paying Apple prices.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
StrongARMs are highly integrated chips. One piece gets you all sorts of stuff up to things like LCD controllers. They're not exactly upgradable and usually not a do-it-yourself project to build one from scratch.
However if you do still feel like building a StrongARM based machine from scratch (very difficult, I hope you're into board fabbing and have the gear to solder lots of exotic surface mount components), you might want to check out the LART.
If starting from something premade is OK with you, there's an excellent developer community for Linux on iPAQs at handhelds.org. The iPAQ has a huge expansion bus that you could probably use to do neat things with. Of course some hardware hacking would still be required. You can probably get one with a broken batt and/or screen off eBay pretty cheap.
Another option for a premade unit is the Lucent/Phillips IS2630 screenphone (Shannon). There's a project to run Linux on them called TuxScreen. Unfortunately they don't have any more of them for sale, but you might be able to find someone who bought more than one or who is done with theirs that's willing to sell you one. This is a pretty sweet phone, and there's lots of docs on modding it, but it's sure not a PC.
I was looking at this picture of the backside of the logic board with some interest, having never seen the insides of a modern Mac before. I couldn't help but notice that one of the chips on this board, the middle of the three largish square ICs, appears to be made by Intel (there is a very distinctive large, lowercase i to the left of some other illegible text, which is one of Intel's trademarks). Its impossible to tell what it is from the picture. Is it a PCI bridge? The ethernet controller? You would think Apple would not be keen on using Intel components whenever possible, but then I guess any corporation is going to put profit first. Does anyone know what it is?
"(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
Now if he'd started from some non-Apple PPC motherboard, that would be more impressive.
5) Install appropriate pirated version of window
6) Install *NIX after realizing what shit windows is
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Now, if they had used some generic PowerPC motherboard and got it to boot OS X, that would be news. This isn't.
Seems pretty tinkerable to me, what's missing?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
From what I see of it, apparently he drilled his board in order to mount it. BAD IDEA!!! I'm willing to bet that there are solder traces that are under the board that you can't see. Cut one, and you can kiss the board goodbye - and if you're unlucky, you might've even killed other components in your system.
And uh - not to troll, but where does the "cool" part come in? From what I see, he eBayed for parts, spent more than you would've direct from Apple, and loaded it in an ATX case. Uh, yay?
--pi
Actually it is the consumer's fault. If Mac lovers had pushed for clones, and not let them get pulverised in court, then there would be a suitible market.
Unfortunately, Macs are the Beta of the computer world. Good at what they do, but mainstream shumcks don't demand them.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
OSX for x86 I know its a pipe dream, I wonder if enofe people petition apple to release it for a rather high price, say 400$ so there not loosing money on hardware sales, I know I would pay 400$ for OSX if it ran on any (or just about any) x86 box
Seriously folks, he quotes a G4/400 at $800. And over at Ars, they quote one at $1000. I don't know about anyone else, but I bought mine on eBay - UPGRADED - for about $750. Go to www.baucomcomputers.com and see for yourself!
This makes it more expensive to build your own, crappier version of a system that isn't that expensive to begin with. Unless you are a whiny Linux apologist.
Whew, watch this get modded to 0 in the blink of an eye!
***
"or modify a PC power supply to power your Mac"
anyone seen any instructions for this?
The last thing Apple wants to do is encourage and enable people to "experiment" with OSX on non-Apple hardware. You've noticed, I suspect, that Apple has never marketed an x86 version of any of its operating systems That's because Apple is hardware company, not a software vendor. Sure, they write their own OS, but it is precisely the tight integration of that proprietary OS with proprietary hardware that maintains the "uniquesness" of the Mac. Whether or not that uniqueness is worth the price is a matter of opinion, but the approach does ensure that only company that builds Macs is Apple.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
As far as your request for an ATX based StrongARM board, there seem to be plenty of options out there, all you have to do is choose a vendor your comfortable with, it looks like.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
How, exactly, might "Mac lovers" have prevented Apple from defeating the clone manufacturers in court? Sales figures and market share are irrelevant if you been caught infringing trademark and copyright and violating license agreements.
Interesting use of the word "beta", too.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
...merely put some Apple parts in a PC case. Can you say case mod? As for the price, you can buy a used G4- AGP for $800 easy, so this saves you no money, and if your time is worth money you lose. As for his assertation that you can't put a DVD, CD, and Zip in and Apple cased, wrong, Hell my 9600 had all those and 3 SCSI drives inside. So big whoopdeee dooo for this guy. For the money I'll just buy the new dual 867.
All that modularity is there because it reduces manufacturing costs, not because someone wants to sell to the homebrew crowd. It enables the Dells of the world to build more boxes faster and cheaper. It also allows them to cut costs by purchasing generic components. I doubt there's enough money in selling parts into the home-built market to sustain any but the most specialized vendors.
That this is at all possible is due to the open architecture designed into the original PC by the IBM team in Boca Raton.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Dude! The lines you just posted will be my new sig. Thanks!
Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
Beta refers to the VCR, not the "testing".
Plus MS, Symantec, and others have been caught violating copyrights, and nothing was done. Why? Consumers still support them massively.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Indeed, every thing there's just no source code anywhere
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Wow, this is so exciting... first a PC board in a Mac case, now a Mac board in a PC case.
How long before someone takes a G4 Mac, removes the logic board from it, puts it back, and put up detailed step-by-step photos on a Web site showing what he or she has accomplished?
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
>> Beta refers to the VCR, not the "testing"...
Oh, that. Oops.
No one has ever successfully marketed a Mac clone that would run an Apple OS and successfully defended itself against the inevitable Apple lawsuit. If you want to build a homebrew Mac in your basement, they don't care. If you put it in a pretty box and start selling it by the thousands, they'll roll all over you.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
I don't understand why a bunch of people want to run OS X anyway. It's proprietary and completely closed source. If you're a serious graphics designer, sure, I can see your reason for wanting OS X.
But, slashdot geeks... I can't understand why they'd want something that removes all kinds of ability to tinker and has a shitty EULA. The OS may be a step up from Windows, but the EULA is almost as shitty.
I'm a /. geek. I'm here running Moz 1.1 on my OSX 10.2 dual G4 500. I love this machine. I ran OS/2 and NT for years. When I didn't have the hardware for a decent machine, I put Linux on it and got a few extra miles. Last year, I was the recipient of a used Mac, the mecca of my class of geek. What did I want? I wanted UNIX class stability and speed (and that familiar command line from 7 years of *nix use). I wanted main stream apps, natively.
To me, a non-programmer sort, Linux adds little value. There's some geek value I can pretend to have when I apt-get the Debian box under my control, or wget/make config/make install my Slackware server, but there's something great to running Office, Starcraft/Warcraft, Bloatus Notes and then drop to a shell that uses sane commands (ipconfig, ls, etc.). And if there's an update, Software Update takes care of that for me.
Oh, and I don't care about an EULA. Like the rest of America, I just click through and never read them.
No wonder it's faster and cheaper. Probably has no built-in facilities for wireless either.
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
It is worth remembering that a lot of folks don't have much interest in all the open source/free software wrangling and use Linux because it is essentially Unix. For them, t's just a good Unix clone that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
mmm freedos. sounds like a crunchy, crispy, cheesy snack.
-=chuckles=- Oh look, its a Hackintosh(old Computer Shopper reference for you guys). Still more cost effective than buying a Mac, though not by much, the beauty lies in the customization options.
Wogs "Freedom's just another word for having nothing left to lose."
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
There fine, unless you outside the US.
All the macs i've ever seen in the UK have US keyboards.
Uk
" = shift+2
@ = shift + ' (where the " is on a US keyboard)
£ = shift + 3
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
- it could use a standard ATX power supply
- USB fits in the USB spot, Firewire goes in the serial spot and sound fits sound or include a custom back plate
- have a AMR style modem and Network card
- sell at a fairly low cost with a bit of a premium, like say $300-$400 with CPU
This is something I would definately doToo many zeros, not enough ones
"they bug out when opening many apps"?!?
Windows likes to BSOD, but if your processor is causing issues, then you either need a bigger heat sink or have bad RAM.
Processor reliability is independent of number of applications (assuming overheating doesn't occur).
Maybe an unstable OS is what you meant to blame?
Anyone care to compare the value of this project should put a $$ sign on their TIME and then check out used macs selling on places like http://www.Craigslist.org.
/768 MB Ram /30 GB HD/CD RW & Zip Drive/17" Flat Tube sony monitor Trintron 200ES
,2 USB ,Modem ,Ethernet, Pro keyboard and optical mouse , ,Firework MX ,OFFICE X ,Toast 5.1.3,Quark 5 :Final Cut pro 3,Cleaner 5,After Effect 5.5
Unless you are in school and po or your time is just not worth a lot of money (or you have more time than money), this project is not cost effecient. Cool for sure though.
Check out this posting from Craigslist for a system for $1000
Powermac G4 450 AGP
450 mhz PowerPC
16 MB Video Card
768 MB Ram
super fast Internal CD RW 24x Write 12x Rewirte
100 MB ZIP Drive
30 GB Hard Drive
2 Fire wire
It is in mint conditon .
17" Flat tube(not flat panel) sony Trinitron is included
OS X.2 jaguar and OS 9.2.2- installed
Other software installed :
Photoshop 7,illustator 10,Freehand 10,Dreamweaver MX
Flash Mx
Video Editing software
Call or email me if you have any questions 415-xxx-3332
$1000 Firm
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
Step One: Buy 3 Used Buicks ....
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Amazingly, the lowest end Gateway Profile 4 comes with an integrated ethernet port (with a modem optional) and the other two base models have both standard. Perhaps you should have checked it out yourself.
Come play Heroes of Might and Magic Mini online.
From the article:
Furthermore, water cooling projects for the overclockers become more of a reality.
Aren't PowerPC chips basically un-overclockable? From what I understand, something about the chip design makes it either impossible to overclock it, or makes the speed gained from overclocking it negligble.
c-hack.com |
7) ????
8) Profi... just kidding.
You call me a "Mac user" like you think it's some kind of insult. It's not. "Anonymous Coward" is an insult. You seem to be one of those.
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
It is a violation of the EULA for Mac OS to run it on any non-Apple-branded hardware.
I really don't care. I simply ignore EULAs. In fact, I make it a point to not even read them (and I note that Microsoft does not even require that you scroll to the end of the EULA before clicking "I Agree.") I don't violate copyright law by pirating software, but the EULAs are filled with unreasonable crap that just gets my blood boiling.
So, if Apple, Microsoft, or any other vendor wishes to sue me for violating their EULA, bring it on. I'm tired of the bullshit. You make a product and I buy it. It's not a "license to use" and I'm not playing that game any more.
No question the older boxes have serious limits on bus speed. My point was that it's cheaper to buy an 8600 just to get the case, power supply, floppy, mouse, and CD drive then it is to buy the parts separately.
You'll end up with a near-server class case and power supply (complete with flip-open side, anchored cable harness, etc.) and a bunch of devices for the cost of an inferior case bought alone. Of course, getting the guts of a whole other Mac, in effect, for free, is a fun bit of icing on the cake.
As for the used parts pricing and those implications, oh dear. Please don't get me started on that. Let's just say that since the resale value of the Newton IP alone (even given a licence that only allows sales in the developing world) would be worth more to the right buyer than, say, the entire Visor corporation shows that Apple still makes a regular habit of sticking their head WAY up where the sun don't shine.
Rustin
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
Not only is it only about upgrading old Mac motherboards, but even the linked page says it's about building your own G4 from scratch. The only part of this that's not a simple "upgrade your old Mac to run OS X" is that it mentions using regular ATX cases. I can't see why you would want to do that unless you were doing a cool case mod.
Pardon me for yawning, but been there done that about to replace a Linux box with one. And the only reason I did it is I already had an old Power Computing Mac that was already sufficiently upgraded. I'm now debating whether it's worth upgrading my $60 thrift store Power Wave.
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
I'm curious, how often do you feel your PC? Mine just sits on the floor chuging away. I guess if you're into the tactile pleasures of handling your computer the Mac may be the way to go. For the rest of us who are interested in Price:Performance the PC still leads the way.
This is about as comparable to building a Mac from scratch as making a meal from scratch is to tearing the platic from the pudding, poking holes over the remaining items and microwaving for 6 minutes. (Do you think I eat too many microwave meals)
No-one builds computers from scratch any more, they just assemble off the shelf parts with idiot-proof keyed connectors.
These lamoid "new generation" hackers don't know what "from scratch" means. They should try wire-wrapping or resist ething your own board some time. I'll bet they couldn't build a simple countdown timer with LED output from scratch if their life depended on it. Computer from scratch; humf.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
Just to check, we all noticed that they're still using a fair number of apple aprts, right? Its not like its parts made by somebody else, he's just scavangeing parts from other sources than apple for apple stuff.
Mod point free since 2001
Dont start this again...
..HORRIBLE hardware support, think about how insane it would be to port the os to x86 then support ALL THE freakin cheapo hardware...
If you want to software get the whole package, they are not more expensive if you add it all up... in fact the ibooks are VERY well priced for cheap laptops, the higher end apples, are insanly high priced though...
Ever try NeXTSTEP for Intel?
I dont own a mac yet (tibook for college soon) but, I can tell you that other then macos my reasons for going apple are the whole package, the support, the community, the well done everything,
and the analness of steve jobs...
wtf is up with my reply title, i never wrote that???!? WTF
I couldn't afford an Apple II, so I bought the
little spiral bound manual. It thoughtfully
included a full schematic (with part numbers),
and the full Boot and Bios Rom listings! I think
it was the Rom code that tipped me over the edge
into the project of building my own.
I wire wrapped the circuits, and hand programmed
byte by byte the 5 Roms (2705s, if I recall). One
for Bios, and 4 for Apple Basic. Memory chips
were the most expensive components at the time.
And it worked! Noisy circuitry, I almost had to
position my hands like I was playing a therimin
to get it to have a clean display.
Super of Apple to do 'open source' before it was cool!
My. Bitter much?
OK, in order,
Also some of the apps you mentioned are very processor intensive. Which ones? I only mentioned two and I've done heavy work on both on setups much smaller than the ones that I mentioned. (though, then again, I also did tabloid layouts in Quark XPress on an SE so perhaps I'm just insane.)
Until Motorola gets off its ass...[blah,blah,blah]I agree that Moto's lost its mojo. That's exactly why Apple is fighting to get control over this AltiVec thing and switch to both multi-CPU standard and IBM as primary chip source. Personally I'ld prefer to see them do a hostile takeover of Motorola and personally DESTROY EVERY EXECUTIVE THERE but that's just me and perhaps I'm a tad vindictive.
[rant that consumers are stupid and fall for this MHz baloney] And where precisely did I disagree with that? Though as it happens I think that that is starting to lose power as a generation of buyers comes in that is far more tech-literate.
They have also had a history of sticking it to the dev's. Yes, they do. Including friends of mine and to me as an IT guy who stood up for them and got screwed. Again, where exactly did I say otherwise?
[blah, blah, apple are assholes, their tech is cool, company is untrustworthy, more Apple screws devs, some distorted perception re cloning] Yeah. So what? I'ld rather be with a, what is that, " bussness"?"busness"? that is reliably profitable so they won't go the way of DEC, Amiga, etc., etc., etc.
["I'm a gamer; I NEED power.] Bully for you. I don't know what thread you *think* you're in but this is one about building low-cost, scratch-built boxes and that was what I wrote about.
Some of my family will buy a computer [for] wizo bango software [from] best buy.[they make foolish choices and it pisses me off] I'm sorry and I feel your pain. Users suck, especially when they sit at the dinner table and blame *you* for *their* cluelessness. But again, isn't this a thread about purchasing by folks who solder for fun?
Thanks for the links though. You're most welcome. I hope that they come in useful.
Rustin
Oh, BTW, I apologize to everybody out there for my universally sour tone these days. Sometimes starting a company on no money really isn't fun at all and I'm afraid that you folks are getting some bleedthrough. I will try to give a little more thought in the future to giving my posts a lower arrogant asshole factor (AAF? perhaps a new mod variable).
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
By the way, Linux will work exactly same way (or even better ) as it will run on PPC. Either way, Sparc, Alpha or PPC, no need to buy any proprietary OS, especially that crappy Mac OS * :)
Less is more !
Cupertino, CA
15 September 2002
Dear Slashdot Editors:
Your article on building Macintoshes is a threat to the valuable intellectual property rights of our client, Apple Computer. You are hereby ordered to cease and desist publication of this article, or face legal action.
All your Mac are belong to us.
Sincerely,
I. Will Cheatham, Esq.
Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe, P.A.
Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
Oh lord. Now you're done it. Somewhere within a year, we're gonna see a new Darwin group calling themselves the Johnny A.'s or the JA Consortium or JohnA L0pht or something.
And it will all be your fault.
I hope that you're sorry.
In very other words, cool metaphor; I like it. Other people probably do too.
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
great GUI? What is so great in Aqua? I've tried it and did not find any thng better than I have in Gnome 2. It's even worse as it's not X11 - I hate GUI without remote access. We live in the internet age - both win32 and Mac OS (X) looks like old legacy dinos.
Less is more !
Can I use electromechanical relays?
"The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
And it costs nearly zero. It's called software emulation. I have an old PDP 11 and a Vax 1180 as well as a Univac 1180/82E running Octal around here somewhere. Oh and again it's in software.
Honestly if you build something out of used/junk parts it's because you need a cheap limited purpose server to do some mindless task quietly in the corner. Not that this is bad thing. I have a house full of Frankenclones for routers, firewalls, mail servers and so on.
Quick question. Are you perhaps under the impression that Apple is still selling the disk-shaped mouse? That's been gone for years.
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
LOL :), I like the fact that they're using an Intel heatsink,,, sure, they might have a mac,, but to anyone who looked in the side of the case, it'd sure as hell look like a wintel PC,, (case, heatsink, etc.) what's the point of having an apple if ya can't show it off??
Reece,
I checked this book out from our local library a while back. It details how to build a 'catalog Mac' of the 68k variety. You still need some genuine Apple parts, though.
You might try Alibris - the author is Bob Brant.
They have a few copies for sale-- most of them overpriced, IMHO, since they deal with such outdated hardware. You might get inspired by it, but I doubt you'd actually want to build the machines he covers in the book.
"Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
Okay, I'm a bit pissy. Even a lot pissy. But if you think that this only merits a 1, well, I'm just glad that I'm shifting my focus to my own site soon.
Enjoy my refs while you can, Malda and co. 'cause in two months or so I'll be gone, gone, gone.
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
If you're going to put quotes around it, at least get the sentence right.
Ben Franklin said in 1784, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (That's the most reliable one I can get out of Google.
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
Even swapping out the CD-ROM drive is a massive chore IMHO.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Or a very stupid troll.
I'm writing this on a three year old G3 laptop. It came with a modem, USB, Firewire, audio in and out, video out and 10/100 ethernet. In three years all I've had to add is extra memory.
And then there is usability. Once you have spent extra to get your Mac to be hardware comparable to the PC, it is still useless for most application situations. The Mac excels in a few niches, but if you want to "think different" and do more with the machine, get a PC.
You're right. That useless MS Office application. And that useless Photoshop application. And all those useless programming environements. And all that useless video editing software. And audio software.
To quote a friend of mine, you're not even a moron. You're a moroff.
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
I simply ignore EULAs. In fact, I make it a point to not even read them
n g-an-amateur-pr0n-site-ware, etc.
That's where, most of the time, the publisher divulges if a product contains adware, spyware, i'm-taking-all-your-honeymoon-pictures-and-starti
As this may be the only place you can read about those things (before Ad-Aware catches up), if they're not obviously listed as installation options, you'd be better off going through it.
Get off my launchpad!
Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think BeOS can run on a G3 or G4 except through emulation like VPC. Apple never gave Be what it needed for that generation of processors.
"Form should follow function...unless it's just plain ugly."
'Twere sarcasm.
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
More to the point -- seriously, how long before Apple tries to shut them down for recreating (reverse-engineering?) the Mac without a license??
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
...DO NOT follow this guy's instructions! He ended up making a total mess, and risked frying his CPU.
While it's improbable, it is possible that spreading thermal paste on anything other than the CPU core could cause the system to short circuit. The author at macopz got the adhesive all over the freaking CPU, which could lead to problems down the road. Please read Arctic Silver's instructions if you've never applied thermal paste before. This guy DOES NOT know what he's doing, at least when it comes to installing processors.
A few times when I've built my own PC's from scratch I did so because I wasn't quite satisfied with the quality of all parts offered in any given pre-built system.
One of the reasons to buy a Mac though is the build quality and cohesive selection of parts. (More true of the laptops than the desktops, but still).
I have no desire to build my own mac because I'm happy enough with how they've already built them!
And like others have said if you're just after a cheap system to play with buying used will probably be about as cheap as scrounging components, plus it will probably look a lot better...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Well for starters there's this
and this
or these
these too
this too along with this
and this
Had enough yet?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Damn, shoulda hit preview. Maybe it should be a requirement, no more post button, you have to hit preview
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
You go to the "fastestest" option, and strip it down.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
What's so interesting in fitting a Apple motherboard into a PC case? At least it's not building a Mac G4 from scratch.
:(
To do so, you'd have to find a generic "no-name" ppc74xx-compatible motherboard.. I think Motorola made some test boards for 8xxx series (with RapidIO) and the Amiga boom last year promised some new PPC motherboards too. Too bad none are shipping consumer products alike the x86 mobos.
Anyway, the "article" was quite misleading.
A "Case Mod" != "Build a Macintosh From Scratch"
you mean entirely out of money!
| - | - |
Directly from the article:
"The first thing to do is to prepare the thermal cooling solution. I used a little Arctic Silver that I had around and put about half a pea sized amount on the top of the CPU."
So yeah, it is Arctic Silver. And those metal heatsinks only come in contact with the CPU core.
Good lord, haven't these people ever heard of FireWire? All of those devices have FireWire versions - hell, you could probably put all three of them on one port, run them all simultaneously, and see no performance hit over having them in the case.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
No, I am thinking of the "pill shaped" mice (for lack of a better term) where the button is the mouse.
They are approximately the right shape, though they don't feel particularly comfortable to me, but the fact that I can't rest my hand on it without clicking sucks.
I suppose many people probably wouldn't have a problem with them, but I am particulary picky about input devices, if I had a choice I wouldn't use anything other than the Logitech optical MouseMan wheel. Unfortunately, they don't make it any more, and I don't particularly care for the new model.
Actually, with all of the new Macs the developer tools are on the harddrive in a package. It only takes a double click.
sin(6cos(r)+5A)
I bought an 8500 off ebay for around $75.
First, the 8500 was designed by a drunk. This is not an easy machine to rip apart.
Second, after downloading Stuffit and trying to run it, I get an application error message. I have been unable to run XPostFacto because I can't even get Stuffit working.
Third, after moving some of the DIMMs around (thinking Stuffit's problem is RAM-related), the system won't boot at all.
Fourth, even if I did get Stuffit working, XPostFacto requires the existence of a MacOS 9 partition; you cannot natively install OSX only (it plays a trick and moves the root directory from the CD to disk filesystem). I bought a 9gig Micropolis SCSI drive to solve this problem, not that it's been much use.
This pile of junk is sitting on my kitchen floor until I have time to deal with it, which may be never.
Well, I'll be a monkey's distant cousin. You're right. :-) (For my fellow clueless: check in
"/Applications/Installers/Developer Tools".) And here I was, wondering when I'd remember to haul my Developer's tools disk into work (or wait for all bazillion megs of software to download from Apple) to get those up and running on my new G4. Now, you'd think that would get more prominently mentioned somewhere...
Of course, the Developer Tools get even more interesting when you realize that you can use Interface Builder with Perl (using CamelBones and with Ruby using the RubyCocoa stuff, and probably with Python using a tool taht I haven't tried to look up yet.
Life is just grand.
Babar
I can certainly see where mouse preference is a personal thing, but just to make sure...
You do know the tension of the mouse click is adjustable on the bottom? I have a friend who could not use the mouse as shipped, but wasn't aware that the mouse click force was hardware adjustable.
These people have looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined.
"There is no way that a 1GHz G4 competes with an Athlon MP 2000, and most of the other components are comparable."
Would you say your Athlon MP 2000 (which runs around 1500 MHz) is comparable to an Intel Pentium 4 2000? If you do, then you must concede the possibility that the PowerPC G4 1000 may likewise be comparable.
If the Athlon can overcome a 33% clock speed deficit, the PowerPC may be able to overcome a 50% clock speed deficit.
[Quoting TotallyUseless]
5 81 79&SaveKCWindowURL=http%3A%2F%2Fkbase.info.apple.c om%2Fcgi-bin%2FWebObjects%2Fkbase.woa%2Fwa%2FSaveK CToHomePage&searchMode=Expert&kbhost=kbase.info.ap ple.com&showButton=false&randomValue=100&showSurve y=true&sessionID=anonymous|148075579
/
Re:EULA violation (Score:1)
by TotallyUseless (tot@m[ ]com ['ac.' in gap]) on Monday September 16, @03:13PM (#4267833)
(User #157895 Info | http://www.shiner.com/)
There are no Mac boot roms, at least not on the hardware. None. At all.
[End Quote]
I'll paste the info from the TIL article.
What is iMac Firmware Update?
iMac Firmware Update is based on customer feedback, and increases the reliability of iMac booting. It is being provided to every iMac customer as preventive maintenance. The iMac Firmware update upgrades the Open Firmware boot ROM code using a simple application downloadable from Apple's web site.
2. Dual-image boot ROM
The iMac Firmware update installs a second boot ROM image within the flashable ROM. Should there ever be a future firmware update, the second image serves as a backup should the firmware update fail. Although a firmware update failure is highly unlikely, providing the second image would allow the iMac to start up.
Flashable ROM - Does that sound like hardware to you? Hmmm I think it does.
There's a little button on all macs that when you press it allows you to access the open firmware boot ROM - it's pretty cool - you should try it sometime.
Anywho the open firmware boot ROM must be present for Mac OS to boot - you aren't allowed to copy them & sell them.
That's why there aren't any clones - otherwise you could install Mac OS on ANY motorola based hardware & it would run. But you can't.
Why? Boot ROM!
Anyway her'e the apple TIL article before I forget
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=
AND here's a link to some non apple PowerPC based hardware that won't run Mac OS because there ISN'T a boot ROM.
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/briQ
___________________________
I'm not a geek, but I play one on TV.
I'm pretty sure this guy is actually using Apple hardware, he's just not buying it from Apple. The MB he uses if I'm correct is what Apple uses, the CPU is an upgrade which is fine under the EUL I think.
revolution
Speaking of Mac lovers
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed