Slashdot Mirror
Review of SuSE 8.1 Professional
Gentu writes "SuSE 8.1 is out and it seems to be the main competitor of Red Hat 8. OSNews has the review of its Professional version. The new SuSE 8.1 seems to be sleekier and more powerful than ever." Eugenia, as usual, isn't shy about saying what she doesn't like. There's a review on Linuxlookup.com as well.
It's odd that RH, SuSe and Mandrake compete with each other more than their common enemy.
--fetch daddy's blue fright wig, i must be handsome when i release my rage
I've used several versions of both including RH 8 and my opinnion is that while RedHat makes a great server build SuSE has always had the edge in developing the workstation distro.
When I used SuSE, I thought that it was a great workstation, but I still prefer Redhat for a server OS. Too bad all of the different distributions (Redhat, Suse, Debian, etc) can't work together and make one useful and simple OS.
I don't understand why SuSE is only now coming out with Linux 8.1, and Red Hat only just came out with Linux 8.0. Meanwhile, Slackware came out with Linux 8.0 an entire year ago. Why do all the commercial companies find it so hard to keep up? I guess in some sense the open model really is better.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
Sleekier?
What in the fuck does "sleekier" mean? :)
Obilgatory "I'm gonna get modded down," comment so I get modded up.
To be honest, many of the recent "improved" install tools require the user to think exactly like the programmers did in order to use the installer properly. Otherwise, most of them require a bit of unnecessary trial and effort to get your install right.
Knowing that the new install tool is tricky, I'll still stick with SuSE. It's stable and intuitive without the use my way and like it that redhat tends towards or the I work great if I decide to work of mandrake.
If linux ever intends to become a mainstream (read: NON GEEK) OS, it needs to become dependable, easy to use and easy to install. For example, why did it take me almost 3 days to hack my way to using my qwest dsl connection without having to boot into windows? DSL is a standard technology now, you should be able to use it easily.
Does anyone know where one can find rpms
:-)
for SuSE 8.1? I know that lots of people
with SuSE 8.0 and older would like to upgrade.
The rpms are GPL'ed so where can they be downloaded?
+5 karma to the one who gives a FTP or similar
That screenshot looked really nice -> much nicer than the RH8 screenshots I saw last week, I'm thinking about trying it (I haven't used linux since RH5). but the prices are confusing me. is it still possible to download a bootable disk image for free that I can burn and install from? any urls?
If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
Of course, the LSB will fix all of this, including the bad relationships between the companys. Redh^H^H^H^H The LSB project says this is possible by the "Agree or shutup" (tm) method.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
SuSE has an ftp installation... so if you don't want to buy the CD, you have to download their installation manager and boot to that. then you can select the packages you want, etc. via ftp.
So I just got done installing Suse 8.0 and while doing the online update, I decided to see what's new on slashdot. Guess what the first article I see is.
I used SuSE 8.0 for a while. It's certainly not a distro for the clock speed/memory challenged computers. I have tried Redhat 7.3 too. Every one of these commercial distros bothered me in some way. They were doing some neat stuff, but mostly the problem lay in the fact that "not everything works". But, may be in 5 years, things would improve a lot and I would buy a 20 Ghz machine with enough memory.
it should fit on a single floppy.
.*or* you can have the one with all the doodads. What's more, to get all the doodads you want you might even have to have *two* of big mothers, each for a special range of abilities.
Look, you can have the slim and sexy Swiss Army knife. .
That's just the way it is. I canna change the laws of physics Cap'n.
KFG
SuSE just doesn't have enough CDs. I want SuSE to install every utility for every OS I can, at least in theory, emulate. I also want all optional features enabled and support for every language and file format just in case. I'm talking something like a 20GB minimum install, and SuSE just isn't there yet. Maybe next release, though.
I have already loaded it onto my laptop.
For some reason the advanced power management doesn't work, (it did with 8.0). Also, although the wireless stuff recognizes my wireless card, there are links missing for it to make in internet connection. Too bad. Also its hard to put Latex on the computer anymore, you have to hunt it down, and emacs did not install automatically.
I don't know...
Sigh.
"However, if SuSE fix some of the issues they have, get rid or redesign that package manager, license the Web Fonts, add some more GUI settings panels for wireless support, FTP & HTTP servers, better integration with Windows, fix some of their untested or buggy applications they include in their CDs, modify Star Office and GTK+ application to look more as their primary Qt platform and other such details, I believe that Red Hat's 'empire' in the Linux world will be in jeopardy."
Does that mean she likes it, or not?
If Slashdot stopped posting every form of content that somebody whined about... there wouldn't be any content. I'd rather listen to an article that may be biased than sombody bitching about an article that may be biased. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.
If not for slashdot, I would never have heard of many things I now find useful today, despite the bitching of some people about the posts.
SuSE has always been pretty sleeky, but I can't wait to see the increased sleekiness!
Use Ctrl-C instead of ESC in Vim!
No DVD problems to report like the reviewer encountered. However, the software configuration in the install is still quite poor (no change from 8.0 from what I can see). It did a fair job on hardware but I still had to hit Sax2 to properly configure my monitor.
That said, once installed, it has a nicely polished KDE desktop. I like the icon choice but default "curved" windows I just don't like, back to KDE 2 window decoration it goes. I do like the changes the made to the Yast character mode interface, much easier to navigate. I'm also a little disappointed that it shipped with 2.4.19 instead of 2.4.20.
Overall, not bad but non-techs would require a small amount of hand holding trying to install this release from scratch. The DVD has a very complete collection of software on it that is relatively up to date. It a nice tool to have handy when you're on the road.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
I bought SuSe 8.0 and found the version of KDE it installs is annoyingly slow on a K6-300.
I gather it was a new major release of KDE, if I get 8.1 is it likly to be faster?
And , no, I'm not willing to put up with the horrible UI's of all the other window managers.
Nor am I going to manually install a new version of KDE, my time is worth more than a boxed set of CD's
I'd go back to SuSe 6.4 but it dosn't have automatic update so I'd have to spend three days reading security bullitens and manually patching to get in into a safe state to connect to the internet, a default install gets hacked by a script kid within a day.
Oh and a hint that might save a few people some time. I loaned SuSe 8.0 to a couple of people who wanted to try out linux on old machines, they found that SuSe arn't joking about the 64MB RAM minimum spec, the installer just falls over.
... is that little funky green lizzard thing they have as a "mascot".
YaST2 and SaX2 can be better, but even as they are today blow most of Red Hat's preference panels away. On the other hand Red Hat's XFT font properties are no match to any other Linux distribution so far, while Red Hat has good integration for Qt and GTK+ toolkits, something that SuSE doesn't.
This is very important! People keep bitching about Anti-Aliased Font support, well why is RedHat the only including an advanced utility? Fonts are 99% of your visual aspect of your desktop, good looking fonts make a BIG difference. (side note, Mosfet Liquid engine/theme is a must..)
I'm a SuSE (sparc64), Mandrake (x86) user. Mostly because Mandrake had the better font support. I've switched over to RedHat 8.0 due to the XFT font support.
BTW, I shouldnt have to recompile the desktop to have decent font support. So dont keep saying "Compile yourself". If I wanted a source based, compile everything yourself distribution, I would use Gentoo. (Gentoo doesnt include all the custom applications for preferences.)
I have to agree with the reviewer's sentiment that they should have included Gnome in SuSE. While KDE is pretty good for newbies from the Windows and Mac world, it's still missing the eye-candy that even basic Gnome 2.x has. Of course this is all my opinion, and highly subjective. But, I will say that if you happen to be a fan of the Gnome environment, you're going to feel a bit restricted by KDE. Some major features are missing in KDE:
-themeable login manager
-flexible bitmap themes that allow you to tweak window behavior into something that you want
-granular control over the look-and-feel of the environment (multiple toolbars, drag and drop launchers, etc...)
-a more standarized approach to where binaries go: '/usr/local/bin' rather than '/opt/kde' (Of course it would be better if things were more like '/usr/local/kde', but thene again I compile everything I use.)
If the only thing you do with your computer is read e-mail, browse the web, word processing, and balancing your checkbook, then KDE should fit nicely. But if you like to express yourself creatively and customize your system for ease of use, KDE is not going to make you too happy.
RedHat's Blue Curve approach is probably a little stronger than SuSE's version of KDE. I've only seen screenshots, but it's much prettier.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
I think this Eugenia distros instalations chat irrelevant.
The OSes have more important aspects than installations. Anyway, the OS is installed ONE time, but used MANY times...
Why in hell she rates an OS by its installations process?
:sarcasm start: I use these Distro's all the time and I cant decide which one I like best! WOOWWW! Pretty installer :), ooohhh, i can click there!, aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh wont work on my P166, never mind, will install windows on that :) :sarcasm end:
When is everyone gonna learn? Use slack :)
Gentoo [gentoo.org] is an excellent distribution where everything goes fast :)
Except my SBLive card, which goes no where {grumble grumble grumble} God knows what I've done to foobar it up.
Otherwise, yes, Gentoo makes your machine go mucho fast (well, faster).
First she complains about the installer not making enough decisions, then she complains about SaX making decisions.
In reality, the installer DOES make all decisions. All it does (and that was obviously confusing Eugenia) is SHOW these decisions to you and allow you to change it. But it doesn't force you to do anything at all.
What's wrong with that? The below-average complete moron (which everybody seems to be targetting these days.) just presses "Install" and it installs without any need to configure anything. On a computer with one clean harddrive or partition, the install should work just fine with the default settings.
Hell, even Eugenia was able to install the damn thing, so it's dumbed down enough.
Also, unlike Eugenia sais, SuSE comes with CDs *AND* DVD, not "or".
It can't be denied that the subject of this site is related to news, but I still do not believe that Slashdot bills itself as a "news site." The biggest part of slash is its discussion, not its news posting feature.
The real question is, if there's other sites out there that are so much better for what you need, why bother staying here at all?
This is getting to be a real annoyance. I don't want to have to download (7x650) 4.550 GB of data just to try out the latest linux distro. Some people aren't even able because they're either on a modem or have capped broadband. Personally, I'd like to see all distros cut down to three:
1 CD to install the OS. This would be the only cd necessary to install the operating system. With just this one cd, the user would be able to install their chosen distro of GNU/Linux and get a graphical desktop with some very basic apps (I'm picturing basically everything on the accessories menu on windows).
Up to 2 cds of apps - an office suite, dev tools, games, whatever. After using the single OS install disc, the user would then be able to pop an apps cd into the system and choose what they want.
No source cds. I'm not saying that distro makers shouldn't provide source code to the binaries that they distribute (they should!) and I'm certainly not saying that source is useless (it's not!). I'm just saying that making ISOs of source packages available for download is a great way to waste bandwidth for users and mirror sites that don't bother to mark them as non-essential to the process of 'getting something working'. Windows doesn't have a loop device to check out isos before they're burned, so newbies from windows can't help but be confused. (Yes, I know about Daemon Tools. Does everyone else?)
It would eliminate bloated 2GB default installs and cd swapping. Sure, there wouldn't be a (start|hat|k|foot|swirl) menu that takes up 10MB of space on disk just for the items it contains, but that's probably a good thing.
I'm not bashing suse or RH or any of the other GNU/Linux distros. I'm just saying that the default install/CD bloat is way out of hand and this would be an easy way to solve it. The way I see it, it's a no-brainer like replacing "scary" printk's during kernel startup with a booting progress bar (by default).
Let's face it, friends:
Distros save you cooking the cuisine but therefore give you fastfood. You can't have both. And SuSE is the best darn distro I've ever seen - making the best job of offering a fastfood cuisine compromise.
It's that simple.
For instance: the documentation simply 0wnz RedHat and all the rest - and a dead tree is something good to hold on to when your box won't budge and you haven't been told the "man 'your one-word question here'" trick yet.
SuSEs YaST got me so far with me knowing nothin' 'bout Linux, I would have found it silly to give up again.
Shure this automatic stuff tends to be a pain a year later when your "/usr/lib/java ->jsdk1.4.1" gets changed to "/usr/lib/java ->jsdk1.1.2" every time you fire it up once again, but when you are ready to notice the fault in some distros config I guess you're ready for Debian.
I'm not buying SuSE anymore, as I am not buying any Distro anymore. I'm expierenced enough to get Gentoo or Debian rolling from scratch and if anything it's them getting a donation.
But for n00bs like I was one once, I know no better way to turn to Linux and *never* look back on Windows again than SuSE. This company has earned itself a solid reputation for a reference grade quality Linux distribution and every word of it is true. If you're thinking of giving Linux a try, try SuSE.
I can only recommend it.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I, for one, think you'd have to try pretty hard to find SuSE's installation difficult. She complains about the problems for newbies, but this is SuSE 8.1 Professional. Yes, it's for professionals.
Having said that, I think the installer is wonderful for newbies. I like the fact that you get a summary (which is like a web page, as Eugenia said), and you can drill down as deep as you want to customize it. If you like the defaults that the installer has chosen, you can click OK and go right to the installation. I can't imagine why a linear progression through a wizard would be preferable.
If you honestly have a hard time installing SuSE, then I just can't imagine what kind of installer you'd find easier. (I guess that's why I don't design installers.)
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
I have been a RH user since 4.2 and a KDE user since before their first 1.0 release. I just bought RH 8.0 and the tweeking of KDE that they have done irks me to no end. I have just started to look at it, but it appears that you can't simply change themes back to the KDE default to recover the KDE 3 look and feel. Would anyone like to share their experience with how they recovered the KDE 3 look? I know it must be simple but I haven't had time to probe into it much. Sorry for the OT post.
Unless your ISP's firewall does not allow active ftp.
kind of ...
... a bummer
I have to agree with the reviewer's sentiment that they should have included Gnome in SuSE.
At least in the German version of SuSE 8.1 Pro I got here they include GNOME, both 1.x and 2. You can choose both GNOMEs and truckloads of GNOME packages on install, and you can also decide later if you want to have kdm or gdm as your login manager. You can also directly log into a GNOME 2 session from the kdm they preinstall. How much more GNOME support does one need ?
You don't need to rely on your distro's font support. It can be easily replaced with a hack that's somewhere on the net. Do a Google search for "Xft hack."
Don't let such a simple thing as fonts make you choose which distro to use.
The author of the package manager emailed me a few weeks back and told me that this is a tool only for professionals and experienced users
LOL...
Come on, grab ARCHIVES.gz from the first CD, use zgrep and rpm to install. Yast2 is the worst, I have ever seen/used. Using SuSE since their first distro (4.2).
When the next official X release comes out with support for XFT2 and the next official qt release comes out with support for it, then SuSE will put them in the supplementary version of your favorite mirror. SuSE does not ship beta versions of core componentes like glibc or X.
SuSE has been antialiased (XFT1) for more than a year now, KDE3 offers a good way to install fonts, I do not know what is missing exactly. I think Eugenia did not know about kcmfontconfig. No problem here (SuSE-8.0).
Moritz
"Unfortunately, this has been the trend with too many reviewers - they look at the superficial stuff, and make up their minds based on whether the colors are pretty, and this passes as in-depth journalism."
I agree. Someone taking the review seriously, and having no basis of comparison, would think that SuSE was a terrible distribution. Also, it is somewhat irrelevant that the distribution doesn't install well at the resolution used by 24" monitors.
I also agree with this: "It was thinking (if you can call it that) like this that gave us the dot.bomb crash."
It wasn't the reviewer's best work.
Just select the K menu and select control panel. Select the default theme. After that find the sytles menu. From their select kde default instead of bluecurve. Last click on the upper left hand Window title bar on any running program. I am not a on a linux machine currently but I believe you can change the Window decoration on one of the settings by right mouse botton clicking it and selecting docarations. Browse and find the default kde2. This will get rid of the bluecurve default titlebar. You may want to keep the default font since the orignal kde ones are ugly as hell.
The only problem I noticed is the default kpanel is gone and replace with the gnome one. I know this because I played around with some of the settings and they are almost identical to the gnome panel. Also you may need to download the default icons from kde's website.
Doing all of these will bring back %95 of the kde desktop back.
What really annoys me more then the gui is the exclusion of apache1.3x and perl 5.6!
Do you have any perl cgi scripts that access a mysql database? Your SOL. Redhat included the older gcc 2.9.5x compiler but not the older perl or apache. And no, perl is not fully source compatible with perl 5.6 like the perl mongers say it is.
I am learning perl programming from a college level book called "How to Program Perl" by Dietel and Dietel. Many cs majors have used their c and c++ books. I tested all the example programs and noticed alot of problems. Particularly with return statements, threading, mysql access, and cgi since mod-perl has not been fully ported to apache2 yet. The return statement problems seems to be caused by some changes in default scoping rules. I can easily changes these but I want to learn how to program and not learn how to deal with perl 5.8. Everything else can not be ported. I do not mind the newer versions of apache and perl being included. I would just like the older ones installed optionally as well as gcc. Apache 2.x is not ready for anything besides static webpages.
In other words avoid this release if your an internet developer.
On the other hand my gripe with suse is that their distro's have always been buggy and not as reliable as redhat or debian.
For my games which require low latency sound(sucks on w2k), and low ping times I will stick with redhat. I have noticed ping times cut in half in some circumstances and my scores are higher due to low latency for sound. I am already dead before I hear the rocket sometimes under w2k. For software development, I will stick with Windows2k.
http://saveie6.com/
There is no point crying about all the tiny features that don't work in Suse. First of all, each distribution has a different way of doing things, which is nice as it shows that we have freedom of choice.
So when reviewing a distribution you need to look at it objectively from the value it gives you. People who have been using yast or yast 2 before are very effective in using it and working around the querks, just like many Linux user are beter with the bash or bourne shells than Windows users.
Secondly, most people are not interested in hearing the same old problem stories, after the authors keeps throwing all sorts of weird and exotic hardware-software combinations at the distro. For my part I am interested how well it works on normal PCs, eg. Dell Optiplex, Poweredge, Compaq Proliant servers, etc... I am sure in Germany (where Suse is located) there are many strange monitors that are 2 years old that are not auto-detected by RedHat et al! So saying that a particular monitor is not on the hardware list constitutes hardware compatibility issues is pretty daft(the same could be said about any linux system).
Also - graphical user interfaces are purely a matter of personal taste. If you don't like KDE, please use Gnome. It is no secret that Suse is KDE biased, so please do not blame them if you don't like the looks. It cannot be that difficult to download a theme or customize the desktop to fit your private preferences?
So at the end of the day, what value does Suse add?
- Grub substitutes Lilo, a necessary evolutionary step
- CUPS printing as default brings it up to the current state of the art
- XFS file system introduced already in 8.0 brings reliable journaling and ACLs for those people who do not like patching kernels and using ReiserFS or EXT3
- Apache, Samba, Bind and other standard apps precompiled with workable configurations
If you are a pro, you do not have to use these SUSE RPMs or yast, but instead you will compile these servers yourself anyway.
Overall Suse is not perfect, but neither are the other distros. Most problems are a matter of personal preference, but these problems also happen with other distros. The point is that Suse gets the job done, and once you take of your red hat and learn doing it the other way, you can actually get a nice result.
I know SuSE doesn't distribute it but does anyone else?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Thanks for the info. I think I am just going to uninstall my redhat KDE packages, download the latest KDE packages from kde.org and compile them myself. That's probably the best way to make sure my KDE install is the "real" KDE.
All well and good. Yet, in the end, you've substantiated nothing. You could not produce this magical post. You can't prove that the intent of slash is for news rather than discussion. Your statement is just as baseless as mine. I refer to it as a discussion site because that is how I view it. In my case, the articles are rarely what I'm after. The reason being that I have often already read them on other, more effecient, news sites. However Slashdotters end up producing much more reference material than these, I guess in your world, "competing" news sites. That is what I'm after, as I prefer not to take information at face value.
Undoubtedly you have your own internalized rationalizations which lead you to believe (and proclaim) that the discussion here is useless, and that this is a poor excuse for a news site. While I can accept that, I can't understand why you feel the need to hang around under such circumstances. If it's just to start petty flame wars and further degrade the conversation here, that's all well and good. I just hope you realize that, in the end, you've accomplished nothing.
Have fun stroking your ego manifest.
In the meantime I'll continue associating with my populist mob for, as we know, everyone on slashdot agrees on everything. I admire your convition, yet pity your endeavor.
Hmm, thanks! I was just now wondering why the SuSE boot CD would stop at "trying to connect to FTP".
Of course, SuSE 8.1 isn't on the FTP sites yet.
Anyone going to be offering (3rd party) ISOs for download anytime soon?
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I think only the "ProSuite" version of Mandrake includes StarOffice 6.0 and it's a far cry from free at $200.
I don't a ton of experience with Mandrake but from what I've seen it makes a greater effort to feel more "windows-like" at least terms of menus and configuration panels than SuSE. This should make newbies feel far more comfortable. I use SuSE because Yast makes remote management very easy (esp. remote upgrades) and because they offer a DVD based distribution for much less than the other distros. If you want to install and walk away, I'd probably go with Mandrake. If you're going to be maintaining the box, I'd go with SuSE.
As for learning curve, the two are virtually identical for day-to-day use.
OpenOffice has worked perfected on almost all the MS-Office docs I've thrown at it. There's the occasional oddly (but still legible) rendered page but it hasn't ever refused to work on anything for me so far. I image macro heavy docs might be a sticky point. If MS-Office is a must, I'd recommend using Win4Lin and Win98 on top of Linux. It's great for the occasional win-only crud that pops up. Otherwise, Codeweavers' Crossover Office works pretty well too. I purchased Win4Lin after Crossover and I prefer to keep my windows apps nice and isolated like Win4Lin allows me to even though it's a little resource hungrier.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
So perhaps the fact that she clearly didn't have the DVD is the reason she chose not to use it?
> KDE3 offers a good way to install fonts
Sad that KDE3's font installer is broken due to RedHat changes and missing adaptations to it.
Of course Gnome2 is included, read the package lists: Personal, Professional.
wasnt that the woman wo "reviewed" SuSE's new install manager from a few screenshots and told everybody it sucks?
Because it had to much options?
And because it could color newer versions in the package list?
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
I was about to post something sarcastic about this, too, but apparently it's a real word.
If you really have to use Redhat, do as intended and use GNOME. Redhat has no competence regarding KDE configuration, in fact they fired their only dedicated KDE developer, who provided the KDE release packages in his spare time!
Redhat is not an option for me, I am in love with KDE since 0-Beta2. GNOME just feels slimy and hacked together to me.
Moritz
You can get service packs on cd if you want to pay shipping and handling. I'm more worried about the latest "version" of windows update in which the "No information is sent to microsoft during this transaction," notice is absent. Those are just updates, though - akin to running up2date or apt-get dist-upgrade. The possibility that I was referring to above is one in which Microsoft distributes cds that, by themselves, are incapable of installing windows and must connect to the internet to download very large key components, just like gnu/linux ftp installs.
No matter what you do, you'll always be living in both a microcosm and a macrocosm. Nevermind that though, let's get on with the issue at hand.
1 - "...really intelligent people aren't leaving gems of wisdom here..." Are you berating your own post? Oh, wait, of course not. Realists never include themselves in any sociological equations. Now perhaps I enjoy John Carmack's posts merely because I've succumbed to a sheep-like nature. However, I still enjoy them, I'm still going to return.
2 - "You also spelled efficient and conviction wrong..." And I note that you've taken the liberty of inventing a few words yourself. I'm not sure if you realize but it is, in fact, real life (and real jobs) that keeps some of us from scrutinizing our own posts. Perhaps the reason many slashdotters don't analyze their own words to such a severe degree is because they don't take their conversation to be of such dire importance. Seriously, you accuse me of putting so much stock into the comments posted here when I, myself, rate them as just a step above "convenient." In juxtapose, your statement would lead one to believe that you route an incredible amount of energy (though not necessarily an enormous amount of time) to your own posts. Disregard words, and juxtapose our actions, and one would be given the impression that the comments here are of far greater importance to you, rather than I. Your karma "whoreing" is another testament to this theory.
3 - "which is how you refer to my experience to of Slashdot - baseless" You misread my post, great one. Try again.
4 - "cruft" Just wanted to show you where I got the idea that you invent words.
5 - "And here is the direct link..." Can't argue with you on this point. But I'm afraid that you're still not understanding the idea behind my previous posts. My point is that we're both speaking with conjecture. Your failure to realize this leads me to believe that you're not so much a realist as much as you are a mere pessimist.
6 - "So you see, you are arguing, and commenting with a very small subset of people." Doesn't it stand to reason that this place would be a greater pain in the ass for both of us were there more people posting? I wish you would stop complaining about this.
7 - "You think you get good and fresh info from Slashdot comments in general..." I believe the statement was "...Slashdotters end up producing much more reference material..." I usually end up following links posted to smaller sites which go into greater depth on the various subjects.
8 - "I personally post good stuff when I'm not trolling..." I generally do good things when I'm not doing bad things too (yes, that would be me mocking you). Then the rest of your post goes on about how easy it is to karma whore, and why you troll, etc. etc. I don't really care. It's been said many times, and I believe anyone that's been here for a reasonable amount of time knows, that manipulating your karma is easy to do. I don't manipulate my karma, personally. If I really cared about it I'd be posting anonymously right now. If I really cared about this little fight of ours you can bet I'd be posting in HTML format and linking to material to back up my side of the argument as well. But you see, the discussion here isn't as important to me as it is, apparantly, to you. It's just my primary interest here on Slashdot.
Oh my god. I stand corrected. Wow, I hate it when I think I'm all cool and smart for bashing someone else's grammar and then it turns out they were using real words all along.
Plenty of options - perhaps the review copies were only distributed on CD for some reason, perhaps Eugenia asked for the CD version (not everybody has a DVD drive, she may have wanted to do the CD install in order to get a feel for what the average user will go through)...I could come up with good possibilities all day.
Eudaemonic research proceeded with the casual mania peculiar to this part of
the world. Nude sunbathing on the back deck was combined with phone calls to
Advanced Kinetics in Costa Mesa, American Laser Systems in Goleta, Automation
Industries in Danbury, Connecticut, Arenberg Ultrasonics in Jamaica Plain,
Massachusetts, and Hewlett Packard in Sunnyvale, California, where Norman
Packard's cousin, David, presided as chairman of the board. The trick was to
make these calls at noon, in the hope that out-to-lunch executives would return
them at their own expense. Eudaemonic Enterprises, for all they knew, might be
a fast-growing computer company branching out of the Silicon Valley. Sniffing
the possibility of high-volume sales, these executives little suspected that
they were talking on the other end of the line to a naked physicist crazed
over roulette.
-- Thomas Bass, "The Eudaemonic Pie"
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...