Slashdot Mirror
Doom 3 Alpha Leaked
Alex_Ionescu writes "The Doom 3 E3 Demo Alpha has leaked to the public. It looks promising, altough I'm only getting 12FPS on a Radeon 7500. Did anyone else have the chance to play it and could post their FPS? Here are some sites with more information and screenshots: here , here, here, and finally here. "
is this a 'bad' leak? or was it done on purpose or what?
This looks really nice... but will there be any hardware avalible that can play it?
*ducks*
My potato gun was confiscated by the United Nations. They said I wasn't allowed to have weapons of mash destruction.
...News for Nerds, 0-Day Warez!
NO CARRIER
According to this site, the demo was leaked by an ATI employee.
Shame on them...
Start the reactor!
:P
Um.. Crap, I can't play it, I only have a Matrox G400.
Maybe they leaked the alpha on purpose because they knew practically no one can play it. Well unless of course you just stare at the ground the entire game.
Looks really cool though, do we get a chainsaw again?
R4NT.com - A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
I got a copy from other places and trust me you guys arnt missing much. When id says 'alpha' they mean it.
AZTEK
I wonder if this story has anything to do with the ad at the top of it for a Radeon 9700...
for those who don't want to bother with the mirror site and just download from newsgroups..
:-)
alt.binaries.games.worms is offering the Doom III Alpha copy..
there will be plenty of reposts.. so take your time
"The ones who dont do anything are always the ones who try to pull you down" -- Henry Rollins
My machine is a p4 2.4 w/ a 64mb Radeon 8500. I have 512 megs DDR. Running at 800x600, medium detail, with bumpmapping enable, I am averaging around 20-25 FPS.
Try killing any and all non essential processes running in the background. Also, try killing and multiple monitors (just unclick the "extend my desktop...", you dont have to pull other cards out).
Some fo you /.ers make no sence at all.
--LordKaT
I should add that that is where I read it could be downloaded. I haven't tried it for myself.
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
One possibility of what will happen is what seems common to me when things are leaked. People play it, and they like/dislike a certain feature. Then when it's taken out/changed, they complain, when they never would have seen it (or missed it) otherwise. When people get to play something like this, they seem to think that it's their game.
Another possibility is that people play it and think it's the best game ever (and when it changes, complain, as above). If this doesn't happen, then the other extreme does, and that one seems a bit common to me. People play it, it's got lots of problems (it's an internal alpha, what do you expect) and so they say it's terrible, etc when the work on it is no where near complete. So when it DOES come out, alot of these people have already made up their minds.
I do think that this is news, and I'm glad it made it onto slashdot, but I DON'T think that slashdot should be posting mirrors to the leaked alpha (I know they'd show up in the comments but still...)
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
And in other news (TOTALLY UNRELATED) today, sales of high end Nvidia and ATI cards goes up by 1000%.
My photolog
since this alpha seems to be heavily optimized for the R300 aka ATI9700 (or more precisely: not optimized AT ALL for any other card) it might have been leaked on purpose so the FramesPerSecond-Whores (hello Kyle Bennett) out there run to the shops to get theit 9700 to play the shiny new Doom3.
or maybe it was leaked just in time for the NV30 to demonstrate that it does kick the 9700's butt in Doom3. sure it was leaked by an ATI employee?
keep it simple.
http://www.thegameclans.com/doom3pics/high%20res/s hot0054.jpg
Do those urinals have CAMERAS strategically attached to them????? Creepy...
No! It's a fake!
Except I have it on my machine, and was playing it earlier...
the only people who can run it are the weirdos who buy $400 video cards every four months
I can run it up to 40 FPS on my radeon 8500 if I drop all the detail and resolution. At 800x600, on medium detail with bump mapping enabled, I am getting 20-25. Not good, but playable.
Has anyone noticed that the links in this article are ILLEGAL? And not just controversial, civil-disobedience, megacoprs-bought-the-law-to-oppress-us "illegal", but violation-of-NDA and warez-illegal? I thought at least the Slashdot editors were smarter and more ethical than this.
What? Run. Run. Run. Shoot. Shoot. Shoot. Shoot. Kill. Kill. Grab ammo. Grab ammo. Change weapons. Shoot. Shoot. Feel Asshole go from O to . after going down a dark and lonely hall way to find a million imps waiting on the other side.
This isn't good gameplay?
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
This was faked
Taken from HTGK, no word on it's validity, but still interesting:
"Xian> ATI leaked it
Xian> oh we will. We are hoping our rep gets fired.
Xian> John sent them a flame mail yesterday basically saying "This has hurt our relationship"
Xian> haha, no
Xian> not really
Xian> they sent us a development laptop with a full build of Unreal Warfare on it
Xian> yep
Xian> Well, we deleted it
Xian> that's a whole can of worms we don't want to get into
Xian> yeah, well, ATI has clearly violated our NDA
Xian> we thought about that.
Xian> but, no
Xian> ATI is on our shitlist right now
Xian> we are not dealing with them until further notice
Xian> no, it's not public chiQ
Xian> We know ATI leaked it. We watermark all releases
Xian> Squiggle: ATI has a relaxed policy about pre-release software. Remeber, they gave us a laptop that had Unreal Warfare loaded on it 3 months ago
Xian> They don't seem to care about strict enforcement of NDA's
Xian> on a positive note, people seem to *REALLY LIKE* the leaked shit"
"Upon attaching the waterblock to my penis, I began to notice that I know nothing about computers." -- JRockway
> I have a GF4 MX on a duron 800 and I was getting 7 FPS
I'm not surprised. Carmack has already stated that you should not buy a GeForce 4MX for doom.
were you expecting to see a sig here? perhaps you'd rather see the inside of an ambulance!
I don't believe slashdot posted this. Isn't it considered piracy in the worst form? Now EVERYONE on the planet will be after a copy (as ever 1/2 the world was not after it already). Sucked that JC's labor of love is exposed to the world in such an incomplete state.
:)
I will get off my moral high horse now and look for a copy
What are the odds on /. taking this story down by 8am tomorrow morning? I mean, really, did they check to see if Id intentionally leaked this?
What is music when you despise all sound?
You're right. A link is a link, right? Maybe I should consider some links to kiddie porn on my site. After all, they'd just be links, right?
Nope, this is wrong. There's no way Slashdot should be linking to warez.
Unreal alpha also leaked before it was released. It also required twice as much memory and processor power than the final version.
I wouldn't draw any conclusions about the 3D-engine efficiency before the final version is released.
Yesterday we cried because games and game studios fail. Today we rejoice because an up-coming game has been leaked. We want to have our cake and eat it too. This mentality is a good part of the reason our types aren't taken seriously.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
To get the leaked doom alpha running a little smoother or your POS system. Open the "doomconfig.cfg" in wordpad (not notepad, as it can screw things up sometimes). Scroll to the bottom of the file, and work your way up changing the following settings:
seta r_ext_compress_textures "1" seta r_colorbits "16" seta r_depthbits "16" seta r_mode "3" seta r_fullscreen "1" seta r_shadows "0" seta r_useStandardGL "1"
This should get your fps up a little bit, but you will lose some very nice eye candy!
Will winex run it?
Or am I going to have to install that leaked version of Longhorn after all?
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
You can rebind the keys with standard quake 3 commands. Try this:
bind w _forward
bind s _back
bind a _moveleft
bind d _moveright
There's also a flashlight in the game that is missing a texture. You can copy flashlight2.tga to flashlight3.tga and it will work. Framerate drops significantly when you use it.
bind e flashlight
It's a shame that Slashdot actually links to this software. Id software and John Carmack have been very supportive of the community, ignoring reverse engineering even though their licenses don't allow it and giving a lot of information about the technologies. All you should NEED until the game is released are screenshots and the movies. So don't spoil it for you and others.
Keep in mind that this version is the same version used at the E3 presentation, which means it was optimized for a Radeon 9700, which has been boasting some pretty impressive fps scores. I get only about 20 fps on my Geforce4ti/4200 (128mb version), and my framerate drops below 5 when more than 1 monster is on the screen.
If you want the demo, don't use filesharing apps...they've been too unreliable for the file. Try doin a search on packetnews for IRC channels that host the file (I got mine at addictz.net #datavault).
Sigs are for losers
The graphical jump on Doom3 from ANYTHING out right now is 10 fold. You can go play your Warcraft 3 all you want, but it doesnt look ANYTHING like Doom3. This is as real as we've gotten so far, and you better upgrade because it's going to set the bar for every new game on the market like Doom and Quake both did. If you dont like games, best stay away from whats going to happen in the next year.
Are you smokin? Poorly written game? You fucking twit.
ID *IS* the company that pushes FPS technology to it's fullest. Carmack is a fucking Genius. Unreal is nothing more than a DoomMeToo. Ever since wolfenstien3d (i'm talkin 286 here, not RTCW) People wanting to play ID games have been buying, upgrading their home pc's for years. It's a completely new scene (6-7 year old scene?)
aS FAR A ps2 being beefier than a top of the line PC, don't make me chuckle. Shit's gonna be emulated soon nuff. NV30 will run circles around the PS2 graphics stuff without even breaking a sweat.
Your crappy NTSC Tv at the most can display at a resolution of 720x480, while any PC can do resolutions way beyond that. Also to note, your TV refreshes at 60hz, so at the most it could only spit out 60 FPS on a tv.
Computers with monitors will go beyond the resolution, and beyond the framerate of the PS2. Modern SGI monitors can refresh at 150, so as long as the video card can keep up with the refresh rate, it can spit out 150fps.
Use "comment sense" before you make stupid comments like that and I wont have to kill you.
System:
AMD T-Bird 1400, 512 mb ddr, Creative GF4 Ti4200.
Windows 2000 with Service Pack 3.
30.82 NVIDIA Detonator Drivers.
Running at 640x480x32, I average at 30 fps when using low quality settings. When there's heavy action on screen, the framerates drop below 5. The intro "map e3\intro" is absolutely jaw dropping, albeit beit pretty slow on my machine. After watching the intro and playing around with the 3 included maps, I have no wonders that people at E3 were complaining that "Stop showing us the pre-rendered stuff, show us the engine" to which ID employees responded with something along the lines of "Well, this *IS* the engine". My knowledge of English is not good enough to be able to express how impressive this thing is. The scary atmosphere, lighting, shadows, creepy noises. ID did it all right. This is far from the "real thing", as it's only an Alpha of the engine that was shown months ago and the full game is still months off. Still. Two Words: My GOD.
P.S: I hear that this thing also has Multiplayer and the Editor included as well, but you have to hack around to get them to work.
No, it just means that Slashdot took a really long time reporting this. Even some German news site I visit to get up-to-date information about ISPs listed the story earlier. Oh well.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
LOL
U getting a % on the bandwidth sold to these guys ?
beauty is only a light switch away
Second, high frame rateproduces a realistic sense of motion. Even though the integration time of your retina isn't particularly fast, higher update rates give an more convincing illusion of continuous time. Movies and television can get away with 24 fps and 60 fps (fields) respectively because the images displayed have motion blur built into them. Games don't have that advantage, so they have to "fill in the gaps" with high frame rate.
(And yes, I work in the game industry so I know these things. At Activision, the difference between Battlezone running in software at 30 fps versus Battlezone running with hardware acceleration at 60+ fps was astonishing.)
Remember its only in alpha stage, and in no way is the code even closed to being optimized.
Here's a hint. Why don't you not click on the links to the screenshots and videos, or not download the leaked version. Sheesh.
Me? I didn't share anything with anyone, I'm a different person than the original poster. :)
But anyway, the point is probably that Slashdot is supposed to be fast about posting news, and that in this case it was quite slow. That doesn't hurt anybody per se, it does "hurt" people who rely on Slashdot as their only source of "News for Nerds", or at least if would if this was some kind of highly relevant story.
I don't really see why you're making such a big thing out of it, nobody ever said the fact that Slashdot isn't always the first site ro report things was some kind of earth shattering insight. *shrug*
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
DON'T DO IT!!
Hey i'm on it right now with 150 other people all saying the same thing...
The parent doesn't deserve mod points because there IS no doom 3 here. Completely useless utter nonsense dog dick crap. SO MOD THE PARENT DOWN
kthnx bye.
> I have heard that the human eye can only detect things at ~30 frames per second
> - so why all this push to make things run at 150 fps?
> Can you really notice the difference above a certain amount?
It's an expontential fall-off.
Doubling the frame rate does not make the video look twice as smooth.
i.e.
10 -> 20, very noticable
20 -> 40, smooth, but getting hard to tell.
30 -> 60, you will be hard pressed to notice the difference (but it IS possible)
That said, there is a reason you want the game to run a high frame rate. If you're game runs at rock-solid 30 fps, and then 12 guys show up on screen tanking your frame rate by 20, you'll really notice the visual lag. However, if you're frame rate is 150+, with the 12 guys on screen, you won't even notice the frame rate decrease.
Cheers
--
Philosophy is a game with objectives but no rules.
Mathematics is a game with rules but no objectives.
I second this, the parent (of the parent) has no friggin' clue what he is talking about. No doom3 here, tried it. Its a hit and miss and a big waste of time, designed only to get you to dload dc++, which is a project that he is a member of. Mod the parent (of the parent) down.
Occam's razor is the blind faith in the natural selection of least resistance and in universal oversimplification. -- EF
I click in to read this article and I see a banner ad at the top from ATI for a Radeon 9700.
Anyway, I do like to know about stuff as early as possible, which is one of the reasons why I visit Slashdot. The other being I enjoy (sometimes) the discussion of news stories on Slashdot. At the same time I realise Slashdot makes a poor single source of news, among lots of other things because it's not always very fast to report stuff. If speed isn't of any importance to you, that's your prerogative, of course, but I doubt it really isn't.
Note that I don't see the whole issue with the kind of
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
I get 150 fps in 1600x1200x32 with detail high on my Commodore VIC 20. Glad they also support older machines.
I was wondering when this was finally gunna show up on slashdot. .plan. Like A lot of people, I even forked over the money for a total system upgrade just so I'll be able to get decent framerates (Althon2000, Geforce4 Ti4400, 512mb ddr2700)
Doom 2 is probably my favorite game EVER in terms of hours spent enjoying it, and I've been looking forward to Doom 3 ever since John Carmack mentioned the idea in his
Anyway, of course I was really excited when people on efnet started mentioning an alpha being leaked, and I managed to get ahold of it that night. So I loaded it up, and played it for a few minutes.. and closed it and deleted it. Yes, it looks great. Very promising. But really, it's not worth the download. There are only 3 levels, and you can tell that even those aren't polished yet. From playing it, I learned that it's a beautiful game and awesome engine, and it's going to be fun as hell. But anyone can see that just by looking at the screenshots that have been around forever. This alpha is more of a spoiler than anything else. Instead of going out and trying to get your hands on it, you'd be better off to just wait for the real game to come out.
It might give their competition some idea of what they're going to have to compete with. If ID had some secret killer feature it's not a secret anymore.
I can imagine the atmosphere at iD headquarters near Dallas right now;
John - "Damn bastards, the ATI folk. They leaked the alpha."
Xian - "We've got to punish ATI somehow for this."
John - "I know, I'll cripple performance on ATI cards. I'll just insert a sleep() function call here and half the framerate when I detect an ATI card. That will teach them."
Xian - "Excellent."
Revolution = Evolution
Actualyl i doubt ASCII White could go over 50 fps. Doom 3 requires video card power NOT CPU/RAM bandwidth. Super computers are mad for crunching large numbers quickly but are not designed for real-time creation of frames for a game. Maybe if you had one machine with a Radeon 9K it would work but even tthen still probably not because the latency to get the calculations back from the other comps would be too much.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
So your AGP card in one node can directly access the RAM fo computers across the network? WTF r u talking about. Your thinking of the 1x/2x/4x/8x measurement. What that tells us is the amount fo bandwidth the the system ram. And if you look at some benchmarks its not as big of a factor as internal RAMDAC. I dont play games i code them in OpenGL. Maybe if you would do more than skim Tom's and Anand you could find this stuff out.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
I checked it out and it is easily a debug build. There debug symbols are intact as well as linking to OutputDebugString. Therefore, it is HIGHLY unoptimized, so don't even count on getting any decent FPS.
These are linked on some of the many different threads relating to this story, but for those of you in a rush and not wanting to look around.
:
/. - I am sure it must be reassuring for him and the id team to see how much people are wanting (and enjoying) this game but he must be pretty pissed about the whole affair!
Admittedly this will make the game look nowhere as amazing as it currently does, but these two tweaks (which you can enter on the console) worked wonders for me...
r_useStandardGL 1 - the default is set to '0' - using this toggle will disable the bump mapping.
r_shadows 0 - the default is set to '1' - using this toggle will disable the dynamic shadows which, whilst looking amazing, melt your computer.
Some other things worth noting that I have discovered... if you edit the 'runact.cfg' (which if you have downloaded this leaked copy, you will know you have to exec - and it takes about 5 minutes loading up textures and stuff) - if you comment out the bottom three of the top 4 'exec' statements to read like
exec activate_demo1
#exec activate_demo2
#exec activate_demo3
#exec activate_intro
That 'exec runact.cfg' takes a hella lot less time and the game seems to run as normal.
One last thing.. should we even be talking about this? I know that John Carmack reads
"Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
Source Of The Leak
John- "One more thing..."
Xian- "Yes?"
John- "I've got missles."
Xian- "Oh really...."
John- "The aerospace tests are going
better than planned."
Xian- "Excellent! I'll get ATI's address."
Wow. That's pretty kickass.
Since Quake 1 I've always used the right mouse button as 'forward' since it was the most popular method at the time.. but nowadays people tend to use W as forwards, and right mouse as secondary weapon.
I'm guessing Doom 3 won't have secondary weapons, so the right mouse forward thing can come back.
Good, cuz I tried playing Quake 3 using W as forwards and I couldn't get it.
mogorific carpentry experiments
I got the editor to work after messing around with it for a bit. I had to use GTKRadient to create an empty project, then I copied the project file into the doom/base/scripts dir. Now it starts up and loads and I can play around with it. Only problem is that it is difficult to edit when your resolution is at 640x480 =(
posting this story was a moral thing for slashdot to do, it's still the biggest news event in gaming for quite a while. Can't expect the press to not spread the news.
Badgers? Badgers! We don't need no stinkin' Badgers!
Must be just a coincidence, from what I've seen ATI seems to have upped their internet advertising alot recently. They have a huge obtrusive popup on gamedev.net, and of course there's that banner right up at the top of the page I'm viewing right now.
If I wasn't so trusty this would definitely smell like some marketing chicanery.
(OK I'm not that trusty, here's my conspiracy theory: ATI's next gen cards are out now but doom 3 isn't out yet. They leak the doom3 alpha to get high end consumers thinking about doom3 cards at a time when they still have the lead against NVidia. Throw in some 9700 ads all over the web to make sure people know where to get their high end cards.)
Nah, couldn't be.
In reality though, one node would have more than enough RAM to hold all the scene info, RAM that could be written to by many nodes, freeing your disply node to simply render. You're right though, I'll take a faster RAMDAC over AGP 16x anytime (for the next few years at least).
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
Pavlov?
Reminds me of a dog...
"Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
Im not saying you cant get it to run on ASCII White computers. I dont know if you can or not but i woudl believe it if someone did. I am saying that you would recieve no benefit from running it on the single node and no single node can get 150 fps on Doom 3.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
You appear to be correct (Random Access Memory Digital-to-Analog Converter). I guess I meant faster RAM and faster clockspeeds as compared to faster system-to-card bandwidth.
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
Next time, at least leak the Linux version and only that. Bet that'd get the "most-people-converted-to-Linux-in-one-day" record?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
If it's so fake, could you kindly explain to me why I have a copy of it on my hard-drive and have played it? If it's fake, what was I experiencing when I was trying it out? Was my brain put into some sort of hallucination?
Get it through your obviously thick skull; if so many people have it (myself included), then it's obviously not fake.
Maybe, before he leaked it, he patched the game so that it was artificially crippled to only run at 12 FPS so that it will spur demand for ridiculously fast video cards.
Hey, I can wear my tinfoil conspiracy hat once in a while, can't I?
pi = 3.141592653589793helpimtrappedinauniversefactory7
ID *IS* the company that pushes FPS technology to it's fullest.
Right, their technology has always been top of the line. Now when it comes to storyline, gameplay, replayability, creativity and the other elements of a great game, that varies a lot and is usually in the medium segment.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
If I didn't know it, and I read it, it's news. Just because it's not news to YOU doesn't make a damn bit of difference to anybody who's NOT YOU.
Nonsense.
Your rhetoric is nothing short of dazzling.
Thank you.
best... line... evar:
.omg. i almost died.
my dad is watching me play, and i shoot one of the monsters with the shotgun... and dood looks dead... and my dad goes:
"SHOOT HIS ASS IN THE HEAD, AND IN THE CHEST!!! --- I BET HE HAS DUAL PROCESSORS!!!"
Slashdot did not link to any warez. It is Slashdot's policy that all posts are owned by their posters. Slashdot cannot and should not stop you from posting a link to kiddie porn in your next comment. But, since you own the comment, you might expect a knock on your door if you do.
A link is a link. Period. It's a shame some judges can't understand that. If you post a link to something on someone else's site, you can't stop them from putting kiddie porn in that location. You would think that a person such as yourself, who's website is what it is would understand that. All it would take for you go to go to jail is one little slip up right? Just post one illegal thing that someone doesn't like and your done.
BEGIN RANT
Law about links are idiotic. Yeah you could check every link on your site once every five minutes to make sure they don't point to anything illegal, but that's just stupid.
This is why the current kiddie porn laws are stupid in the first place. All you need is a little bit of kiddie porn, email it to someone, and call the cops. Them having downloaded those images to their PC even if they put them right in their trash folder is enough to convict them. They still have the images on their pc and tha's all the law requires. It's ridiculous.
END RANT
Life is too short to proofread.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Really you expect anyone who's vagely interested in Doom3 isn't going to try it out? Yes, it's not an official demo like the Quake3 demo that I played for almost a year before the retail hit the stores. But it's pretty darned impressive (graphics, detail, and sounds), and well worth the download. From playing this alpha version, I've realized that my system is woefully inadequate to play this game smoothly (is anyone's?). Looks like I need to budget a complete new system within 1 year.
Not providing a link and just out of curiosity I wanted to have a look at how wide-spread this leaked Doom already is.
Result: eMule found 156(!) sources for it on the 'net in less than 8 minutes.
Seems it's really leaked..
42. Easy. What is 32 + 8 + 2?
IMAX does both, not only is it a huge frame, (70mm sideways, I think that is around 4x the resolution of 35mm, maybe more, I forget) but it also runs at 60fps.
Don't think so. IMAX is 24fps. You're probably thinking of Douglas Trumbull's process, Showscan, which does run at 60fps and as a result is supposed to be almost indistinguishable from reality. Not that I've ever seen it, though...
This just in! Slashdot has made the Drudgereport! I wonder if the barrage of new traffic will be too much for the new servers to bear....
All the computers that data goes through to get to you on the internet have a "functional role" is publishing everything you read. Not a huge one but it's there. It's just my opinion that the buck should stop with the person who is actually hosting the data. Google will give me links to the DeCSS code if I want them, but it would be ridiculous and very bad for the internet to hold them responsible for it. It would as be trivial for me to trick Google into linking to my site when it didn't have the DeCSS code and the adding it after it gets indexed. I could even just block their ip range from accessing that file, so they couldn't tell if they were linking to something illegal or not. You can see how quickly it would become nearly impossible to make sure you were following the law.
I am also very sad to tell you that different people get treated differently, so chances are you would get a diffrent treatment than 2600 did. You might care to note that this site : http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/ is still up.
As far as intent goes, I don't like the idea of a "thought crime" at all. If the guys at 2600 don't like copyright law, that should be their choice. They have to follow copyright law, but they should be able to speak out against it, as well as point out its idiocy in certain cases.
Life is too short to proofread.
Now I enjoy FPS as much as the next guy. I was hooked on Doom I/II more than anyone else I knew at the time. And when I first looked at the screenshots of this game I was shocked at the quality of the rendering, how much more realistic the scenes were than other 3D FPS games I've seen. It looked like it would be a fantastic game. But then I saw a few other screenshots of guys getting blown away, with their intestines hanging out, the various bullet wounds and blood splatter on the wall, and I felt a little uncomfortable. Everyone wants to see their games look more realistic, but where do we draw the line? Do we want to see every bullet hole? Every organ? Fingers, partial heads, various limbs and appendagest all being blown off? There seems like there's a point where this begins to be unhealthy.
Now I'm not saying everyone playing this game will turn into serial killers, or anything like that. I'm not saying it's going to be the downfall of our generation. Blowing up monsters, aliens, various creatures, 'bad guys' etc has been a big part of my life, and those games have all been fun without needing highly detailed portions of their remains scattered around the level.
I guess my question is, are other people turned off by more realistic, graphic gore? Will FPS games quest for more realistic games turn to be their downfall, or will they start to modify them so, although the texture & enemies look more realistic, the actual shooting will be less intense? Or will they include an option where the user can choose to play ultra-graphic violent mode, or a more toned down version appropriate for younger players?
Looking for a computer support specialist for your small business? Check out
No, this was not leaked on purpose.
Yes, we are upset about it, and it will have some impact on how we deal with some companies in the future, but nothing drastic is going to change in terms of what support is going to be available.
Making any judgements from a snapshot intended for a non-interactive demo is ill advised.
John Carmack
Uhhm no...
Thresh won carmacks ferrarri years ago. A fully decked out ferrari is worth more than you or I make in a year combined.
I played with him at the first major lan event called fragfest, held by dennis racine and dave allision, this was like years and years ago. Check out http://fragfest.com for more info.
I played him there, and also on the only doom online service at the time, called dwango (acronym for doom wide area network gaming online or something like that. Thresh was also buds with Usurper, who did the whole spaceorb sponsership scene (fuck u spaceorb) and slayer, we got free time on his dwango, which was based out of santa clara I think.
Anyways, go to any gamehouse, there's cash prizes and tournaments all the time. It's sad that you're one of those people who see video games as "just for fun" when the skill it takes to play some of them can be so competitive leagues, ladders and matches need to be created to see who's best.
Yeah dude, and you're trying to insinuate that i'm delusional. Why don't you roll a fat blunt and chill homie. Sheeit.
I'm particularly aware of this because the PS2 game I'm working on tends to run at 30 fps in the game shell, but occasionally hits 60.
If your game engine is fill-rate bound and running at a solid 40 to 50 fps, and it's being displayed on an interlaced display (such as a standard television set), you can go 60 fps real easy: just render the odd scanlines in odd frames and the even scanlines in even frames. That's what Tobal No. 1 (PSX virtua fighter clone) and Ehrgeiz (Tobal with textures) do. But it still won't help if your engine is T&L bound.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Those people, it can be assumed, will download the full version whether or not the alpha is released. Which means that the alpha release is irrelevant to piracy for those folks.
So again, my statement that Id doesn't lose out on this still stands.
...
Games are made so people buy them and play them. People find a free copy of an unreleased, highly anticipated, much hyped game. You expect people to not download it out of respect? You think people, after playing those 3 levels in the leaked alpha, aren't going to go out and buy the game?
I think you're the one that needs to get a grip.
Karma: Dyn-o-mite!(mostly affected by Jimmy Walker reading your comments)
I agree that the intent is different. It's just my opinion that intent shouldn't matter. (obviusly not the judge's in the decss case)
Take the google example, chances are someone there has though at the fact that their search engine indexes some things that are illegal. one might even be able to find an internal email on the subject. With that email, one could allege that since they know some of the things they index are illegal and didn't do anything about it, they willfully aided copyright infringement. One could make this argument, but I don't think one could win. But it gives and example of why I think intent should not matter.
I think arguing over intent is silly. It should be either okay to link to something or illegal. Anything else leaves too much ambiguity.
I understand the state the law is in currently, I just think it's a lousy state to be in.
Life is too short to proofread.
look at his posting history. it's the guy.
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
Come on NineNine... you're smarter than that.
First off, this "alpha" is 6 months old now... a helluva lot of coding and optimization can happen in 6 months. And the game isn't due out for another year still. By that time a PC that can run it will be extremely reasonable.
Besides, a $2k PC isn't required. I could build a PC that could handle it for under $1000 (no monitor). Most of that cost is in the video card, because the video card is now considerably more complex than the CPU. But an ATI Radeon 9700 will be selling for at or under $100 by the time this comes out - which cuts 20-30% of the price right there.
The PS2 can't handle a game of the graphical complexity that Doom3 will be. D3 is written for graphics chips that are two generations beyond what the PS2 is. Try doing dynamic lighting, bump mapping, curved surfaces, and high poly counts on a PS2... you can't. It's not made to handle it. Oh... and then do that at 1024x768 with 4x anti-aliasing and ansiotropic filtering... no, you don't need that kind of thing on the PS2 because the resolution is so damn poor (somewhat less than 640x480 and interlaced at that). And you're wondering why it's hardware intensive? WC3 is pretty, but it's not designed to push the limits of the hardware - Doom3 is.
Finally, remember that id software is only partially a game company nowadays. I suspect they make a rather sizeable portion of their profit from licensing - $1M + royalties for the latest and greatest engine and support. Doom3 may not be everyone's FPS cup of tea, but it's likely that one of the games based off the engine will do exceptionally well, as Half-Life did with Q1, CS with Q2, and RtCW with Q3.
Or perhaps interested in these brilliant gems of wit and wisdom?:
you are very bright
Shut up
Quiet tards
> Those games have demos you could have played for free and that were provided by the software makers.
Except that in many cases, the demos are old and not representive of gameplay. The Quake3 demo, for example, was based on Quake3 1.11 (I beleive). The current build of Quake3 is 1.32, and has had many tweaks over the ages.
Can you tell the difference between a monitor refresh rate of 60Hz and a monitor refresh rate of 100Hz?
I thought so.
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PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658
What's eatin' you, pal? Who's twisting your arm to buy Doom3? "Poorly desgined new graphics features", and I suppose you can do better?
I'm pretty confident that Id will release something before the game is out, as they always have in the past. You'll be able to test the finished thing and then decide if you want to buy the game or not. I cannot envision why it should bother you the least that people have high hopes for Doom3 and are eager to try it out, unless you're upset because your hardware can't keep up.
Something a wise man once told me: No matter how smart you are, never make fun of people who are happier than you are. They must be doing something right.
A witty
What Doom 3 really requires is what 3D cards give it: Very, very fast basic operations like matrix multiply and floating-point table interpolation, memory fast enough to move the textures and various color, Z, stencil, etc buffers around, the relatively simple shader execution engine, and a bit of general-purpose CPU for running the game logic and GL control code.
ASCI White is good at none of those things. It is a massively parallel computer designed for tasks that require very large amounts of general-purpose CPU. Running a single program thread on a single node is not very impressive; running a few thousand threads on all of its nodes at once makes it the fastest computer in the world.
I suppose that if someone bothered to make a version of Doom 3 that replicated itself across all of White's processors, rendered 3072 16x16 tiles at once, and recombined them into a 1024x768 frame, it would run pretty fast. But there still probably wouldn't be enough memory bandwidth between the nodes to run much faster than a decent desktop CPU connected to a Radeon 9700 over AGP 8x.
And that is exactly the reason why iD is pissed at a leak. Alpha software, even beta software, is just that: it's not finished, it's not polished, it's not optimised. It's not even feature rich, let alone feature complete.
Normal people, who have even a passing interest in software, any kind of software, know that. You on the other hand are just a troll who has no clue. You're complaining about low frame rates for a game which hasn't been optimised yet. The guys at iD are just happy to have stuff show up on screen and not crash most of the time at this point (well, they're further than that, but the point stands). It'll get fixed, but that takes time. This is exactly the reason why iD is "upset"; morons like you making a presumption that framerates are low now, so they'll be low when the game comes out (in more than half a years time, which also means a new generation of gfx hardware, btw).
You're complaing about gameplay for something which has not half of the features, weapons and AI (which is always tackled last, as it needs to be designed with every feature and more importantly the implementation of those features in mind).
"keep believing that all those pixel shaders and stencil shadows actually make anything besides the models look better"
No, they make the environment around the model look pretty too. You don't even seem to know what those things do...I'm impressed by your overall lack of knowledge, insight and your mastery of stupidity.
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
*ahem*
ASCI Blue Mountain would likely do the trick.
If I had 3 phase power handy, I'd take a handful of post Infinite Reality pipelines over an ATI/nVidia anyday. Now as for fitting that onto my desk.... hrmmm....
maybe it would fit into a CAVE.
If the CIA were in charge of this the source code would be posted on telephone poles by now, with a "Have you seen me?" headline.
1. ATI leaks Doom 3 demo
2. ATI currently has fastest video card, that demo was demo'd on. Game runs ass-slow on your GF2 MX.
3. You buy a Radeon
4. Profit! (for ATI, not you)
Sounds like a good business decision for ATI, possibly at the cost of their relationship with ID.
Maybe ID will get pissed off and take their revenge by optimizing for nVidia cards in the final release...
Synergy is your friend
The last Beta I tried was Warcraft III which ran so dog-slow I decided that I probably wouldn't ever be interested in purchasing it, since I'd just sunk $700 into my computer and wasn't prepared to do it again just yet. As it turns out, of course, it runs perfectly well on my system now that I'm running the official release.
But I'd sooner not be turned off a game before I can see it at its full potential. My opinion, and I'm sticking to it. :)
BD Phone Home!
Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.
NTSC refreshes at 30 Hz... INTERLACED.
Not sure, it might be a 60 Hz update rate, but each update is only have the screen.
A 60Hz non-interlaced monitor is at LEAST twice as good as NTSC refresh-wise.
Interlacing is ugly, which is why software such as DScaler (http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/ I believe) exists.
Unrelated note: DScaler rocks. It does with your TV tuner card things that home theater enthusiasts used to buy thousands of dollars worth of hardware to do.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Maybe I can clear up a few points and refute some others.
1) I also don't know how the AC came up with that idea, since I never applied to McGill. I applied to John Abbott College and was accepted.
2) I do make spelling mistakes, but I doubt they are as frequent as you seem to think they are, nor do I care as I don't really think they matter in such an environment.
3) I puchased my computer and all games myself using money I earned myself. I fail to see how my choice of entertainment is a burden on my parent since I pay for it myself.
Now for some responses to your questions:
1) I have a copy on my hard drive because I am interested in new technology in 3D gaming. I care little about the game or how fast it runs at this point, in fact it is certainly much worse than simply unplayable on my machine. This would also probably explain why I actively follow Tenebrae's progress even though I find Quake 1 quite boring.
2) See response #1
3) You obviously thought it was a fake, you even tried to justify your conclusion with dubious claims. Denying it after you're proven wrong is just lame.
4) Yes, I do suppose I'd have to be on some kind of hallucinogen to experience such things, though I aluded to that in my original post.
As for my interest in DivX, I am quite interested in video compression technology. I try to keep up with the latest new developments, and my primary use of DivX is to do the occasional encode, for example I'm set up to encode a short-film bein produced by a friend. However, I must admit that, lacking a DVD player, DivX is certainly handy for storing copies of movies that I enjoy. I've even been known to purchase the odd DVD to have someone encode it for me, though I really ought to buy a DVD drive. As for a job, I currently have one, but being a full time student I don't work more than a few hours a week. It does produce some spending money however. It mostly provides funds to purchase new hardware and games, as I stated above.
You sir, are a flamer. But I'll give you this; you write an excellent flame, certainly much better than I am capable of, and I got quite a laugh from reading your post. Keep up the good work.
So if you're ever charged with manslaughter, do you want them to automatically bump it up to first degree murder because "intent shoudln't matter"?
Determining intent is not the same as monitoring 'thoughtcrime', and has been a critical part of our legal systems since English common law.
I agree, in that I enjoyed the 'brown' atmosphere in Quake 1 as well. The cartoony 'popsicle' look of Quake 2 was a disappointment to say the least, along with the loss of the 'Gothic' look and feel. The sounds in Quake 1 are still some of the best as well. Just an all-around, all-time great freakin' game!
**>>BELCH
US> 30 -> 60, you will be hard pressed to notice the difference (but it IS possible)
;-)
:)
;-) so I had to crank my CRT up to 100 Hz before I stopped noticing the flicker. Interestingly enough my LCD is only at 60 Hz and is rock solid (especially for text.)
U>I would disagree with this assertion, though it does depend on the application.
For people who have been trained to look for it, yes, they will be able to notice it. I was talking about the general populous.
U> I'm particularly aware of this because the PS2 game I'm working on tends to run at 30 fps in the game shell, but occasionally hits 60. There's such a profound qualitative change that we might have to clamp the rate at 30 to prevent the bursts of 60 from making 30 look bad.
Yeap, as a fellow PS2 developer I fully agree. I first noticed the 30 vs 60 difference back on the PS1.
Sounds like you've also discovered that it's better to minimize the difference between the lowest and highest frame rate as it will appear smoother. I believe Carmack mentioned that was his findings as well in one of his Quake plans. i.e. minimize the frame rate drops.
> Incidentally, I can tell the difference between a 60Hz refresh rate and a 70Hz refresh rate, 60Hz seems to flicker for me, especially in my peripheral vision.
For CRTs, I also concur. 60 Hz flickers way too much! I don't have your visual perception quality (lucky b@$tard
Cheers
--
Mathematics is queen of the sciences, but
Number Theory is the queen of mathematics
- Gauss - "Prince of Mathematics"