Slashdot Mirror
Article about The Lord of the Rings MASSIVE Crowd
TheOneRing.net has posted an article going indepth about LotR CGI, and specifically the rendering of extremely large crowds being done byWETA Digital. With the special edition due out soon, and TTT coming out in december, well let's just leave it at "Yay".
C'mon CmdrTaco. We need one :)
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
Cause thats how I determine what movie I wanna see; the crowds! Spend millions on crowds. Millions, I tell you!
"Old man yells at systemd"
...but they still can't make Frodo look like a guy.
I thought they really just used a bunch of actors. Of course they didn't REALLY use elves but damn now i feel let down.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
Nice to see CGI graphics being pushed to the next level.
LOTR is exciting, uses lots of CGI and the geek factor is high. I really can't wait untill the twin towers. When Hollywood makes great movies like this the whole MPAA trying to take away our rights thing doesn't sound so bad...
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
Are they allowed to be scanning pages from the magazine and just posting them online? Seems like Popular Science is losing magazine sales from this. Isn't this copyright infringement?
(I'm glad to see the article but I can't help but ask if they can legally put this up)
me friends always told me i looked like an orc.
Purchase some of the servers used to render the CGI in the first LOTR movie here.
Own a geeky piece of history!
They certainly blow most other "kid" movies out of the water (especially those by Disney, who funds them but can't compete with them creatively).
Spirited Away is the only "kid" movie I've seen in ages that could stand up to a Pixar flick.
I thought the last ALL CAPS NAME was FORTRAN because computers finally supported lowercase characters after that.
(A few update Tolkein; keep an eye out for a background character in The Two Towers who, in the middle of the battle, seems to take a call on his cellphone.)
Damn, now I'm going to have to watch Two Towers like 5 times until I see that scene... great way to get me to spend more money :-/
I really can't wait untill the twin towers. When Hollywood makes great movies like this the whole MPAA trying to take away our rights thing doesn't sound so bad...
Is this a troll?
Slightly OT but I wonder if they could CGI the Dumbledore character into future Harry Potter movies?
:) :)
(The cool old British guy that played him died a couple weeks ago.)
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Moderators - you should mod the first half of this comment Insightful and mod the last half Off Topic.
But then of course they cancel each other out! I.e. don't waste your mod points...
Unless of course this middle bit tips the balance towards funny...?
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Hey, karma whores, I'm too lazy right now to provide links to the relevant articles re old guy, death and Dumbledore. Here's your chance to provide links to relevant articles and score!
A little OCR would save their server a fair thrashing and make the article more readable.
:)
Anybody wanna do that and mirror it?
(DMCA , schmee-MCA
From page 42: 'This is a digital analog to a technique...'
I know that this sentence makes sense, but it sounds so funny that it seems wrong.
Yeah, I would like to see a really hot CG Shannon Tweed style psychological thriller, you know where the fly-ass shrink/sex therapist can't stop banging everyone.
But I also think they could make some bad ass gun-fu scenes with this stuff. Stuff that would shame The Matrix. And explosions, lots of cool explosions.
He painted a unicorn in outer space. I'm askin' ya, what's it breathin'?
(Obligatory reply saying parent is generalizing and how not everybody on Slashdot has the same viewpoints)
-- Dr. Eldarion --
(A few update Tolkein; keep an eye out for a background character in The Two Towers who, in the middle of the battle, seems to take a call on his cellphone.)
Oh the irony...
Just remember after you post this you are now fair game. What??!? you ask?
If I'm in the theater to watch TTT for the first time, and you're in the very same theater but to see your fourth iteration, and you might be getting a little teensy bit bored, if you perchance forget where you are and you take a call on _your_ fucking cell phone, I get to kill you with my +5 Vorpal (Offical) LoTR Special DVDs.
Fair warning, OK?
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
The article mentions that in order to support such a complicated undertaking -- each character has anywhere from 100 to 8000 behavioral logic nodes to govern its behavior -- the creators of Massive used fuzzy logic to make their creations act.
As far as I understand, fuzzy logic -- using probabilities instead of binary values -- has been given the shaft in most of the computing world. People can't wrap their heads around a concept that's termed 'fuzzy', no matter how solid the mathematics behind it are. Maybe this sort of accomplishment will open new doors for research involving fuzzy logic in computing systems.
Obligatory response about how people can have one view of the films and film-makers and an entirely different view about the PAC that is determined to make as much money as possible off of the movies, while simultaneously screwing the viewing public and film-makers.
Kierthos
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
On the topic of CGI, does anyone know if there exists a poster-sized rendering of the scene with Gandalf facing the balrog in FotR? Am I the only one that thinks this would be the coolest poster ever?
- Smiley =)
"Never put off for tomorrow what can be avoided altogether"
The Two Towers in the book are Orthanc and Cirith Ungol, not Orthanc and Barad dur.
It did leave a good bit out, but you can't expect anyone but true fanatics to sit through 6 hours per movie to ensure every bit was included. The additions/adaptations for Arwen's character are understandable. I don't really miss Tom Bombadil, though. He was a fun character, but he didn't have anything to do with the story. Ultimately, he was a sidetrack, a lead-in to a book that was never written.
I know I'll catch a lot of flak for this, but here goes:
I really enjoyed the books, and would not even begin to compare a movie to them for the wholeness and the granularity of the story. Even so, the book offers unfair advantages. Tolkien can say "his eyes flashed" and you make it happen, which is why turning a popular work into a movie is so difficult. Peter James does a great job with the material. I particularly can't wait to see the Ents, as I would like to see a tree that wasn't a tree.
Moving into the dangerous ground, Tolkien wrote some great work, but his books require great imagination to fill in the holes. Tolkien's time scale was never very concise(on the mountain, turn around, in the mine...) and the spaces in his book sometimes leave you wanting for some accounting (Frodo suddently ages twenty-seven years without any significant events?)
Don't get me wrong; I love the books, and the story. So don't shoot me.
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
For those interested, you can purchase Massive. Stephen Regelous, the brains behind this app, showed it last SIGGRAPH. You can check their website here:
Massive Software
Softimage also just announced their own system:
SOFTIMAGE ANNOUNCES SOFTIMAGE®|BEHAVIOR
Actually, you're half right; Tolkien's British publisher insisted on breaking up his 6 "book", 1 volume work into 3 smaller volumes of 2 books each (due to a paper shortage), which compelled Tolkien to come up with new titles (as the original 6 "book" titles didn't apply broadly enough to the new groupings - TTT was originally "The Treason of Isengard" and "The Ring Goes South", IIRC).
;)
In his letters Tolkien discusses his dissatisfaction with the title (though he came up with it), and vacillates as to exactly which two towers are referred to (!). Other towers he referrs to include Minas Morgul, and even Minas Tirith (although IMHO the last would only really be approp. for ROTK). I believe that Minas Morgul itself is described as having two towers on either side of its gates as well...
Anyway, I'm happy with it being ambiguous - but as far as the promos go, it makes sense to "nail this down" to shut down the ridiculous WTC connections.
And yes, you are correct, I don't have a girlfriend.
Well, that's easy. Yoda has the Force and a light saber, Golum has a lisp!
... you never can tell, can you?
Other than that, CG Golum is a computer generated image mapped on top of an actor, which makes his movements a lot more realistic. Or maybe they just got a really ugly person to play Golum
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
CG Yoda would kick CG Golum's ass.
He painted a unicorn in outer space. I'm askin' ya, what's it breathin'?
Yes, the software used in "The Lord of the Rings : The Two Towers" to produce the massive Orc armies at Helm's Deep is based on that used for the Jurassic Park movies. The cool thing about the Weta software, is that each 'Orc' has a small about of A.I. behind it, which will supposedly give the effects a more life-like appearance. DAPence Webmaster, THELORDOFTHERINGS.com
Too fast you say? I think Jackson did a great job getting so much atmosphere and detail down in the first episode as he did. To satisfy hard-core fanatics like yourself (btw I don't care that much about Fëanor or his family, and I don't think it would have added much) there must be made, not three movies, but thirty-something. Right?
Keep in mind that Jackson had a really rough time convincing the movie companies to even extend it to three parts (filmed simultaneously and not waiting to see the public approval of the first), and when New Line finally accepted they almost shit themselves in the process.
It's a lot of storyline to cover, things need to be sped up. I almost feel sorry for you, being so into it that you can't appreciate a good effort. It must be boring.
Why yes! I have two links.
The petition
A protest site.
What a crazy world we live in.
Here's the history behind the Four Towers. Any two will do: http://members.cts.com/king/e/erikt/tolkien/2tower s.htm
This link explains that Tolkien changed his mind about that a few times. Really, the name was rather forced on him, for a volume that he didn't want released in that manner anyway. Book 3 and Book 4 of Tolkien's six-book epic became "The Two Towers." Tolkien himself drew three different covers for the book, one showing Minas Tirith and Barad-dur, and the second and third showing Minas Morgul and Orthanc.
So you might as well call it The Four Towers, as Tolkien changed his mind about which two the title refers to.
Here's a Tolkien quote that shows that for awhile at least, the Two Towers the movie refers to were possiblities left deliberatly vague.
"The Two Towers gets as near as possible to finding a title to cover the widely divergent Books 3 & 4; and can be left ambiguous- it might refer to Isengard and Barad-dur, or to Minas Tirith and B; or Isengard and Cirith Ungol (1)." [Letter #140] -J.R.R. Tolkien
Later Tolkien did settle on Cirith Ungol and Orthanc, because of the text of books 3 and 4, but conceded that Barad-dur and Minas Tirith, seemed less confusing.
I think, as long as it's any two of the four, you can't go far wrong. I can see easily how Jackson's choice of Barad-dur and Orthanc makes a great match. "There is now an alliance between the Tower of Orthanc and the Tower of Barad-dur." It spells out, in a simple sentence, the power of the threat to Middle-Earth.
Wait a second. I just posted a Lord of the Rings factoid on Slashdot! Coal to Newcastle! You guys probably knew this when you were in Kindergarden!
Not trolling, but the parent post touches on an interesting point.
/. community cheer the said production similarly? ;^)
You can use fuzzy logic to govern group-battles. By the same line of reasoning, it shoud be similarly probable to use the said engines to govern "actors" and "actresses" in pornographic productions.
I suppose it will just take some time for the price of this sort of computing to come down to the porn-budget, or for people to make porn with such high budget that they will be able to do this.
I would not be surprised if the exact same kind of setup / method is used to generate CGI pornography several years down the line.
Have to wonder, though - will the
My life in the land of the rising sun.
saw this coming
In teh event of an actual emergency this space might provide useful information.
While I agree that the experience of the movie doesn't match up to reading the books (or listening the audio adaptations - yes, I own all of them... so I'm pretty out there, even if I can't speak Quenya), neither do I think they should be approached in the same way.
:)
I feel that Tolkien's primary writing interests (i.e. the kinds of passages that he enjoyed writing the most, vs. the ideas that he was most interested in conveying) were pastoral and historical, vs. spectacle.
Referring to his "on fairy stories" essay (sorry, don't have it in front of me), he describes one of his favorite effects as evoking the sense of something without filling in all the details (which would reduce it to the mundane). In fact, if there is anything that I find stingy abut Tolkien's writing, it is his brevity of description in the (for lack of a better term) action/otherwise-awe-inspiring sequences (on the plus side, this leaves one hungry for more).
Movies, OTOH, are a much more visceral and literal medium - and lend themselves directly to spectacle in a way that books never do - so I see it as a natural change for the films to focus on the visually awe-inspiring end of things, vs. encompassing the (almost never-ending) detail of the novels, much of which doesn't lend itself to a visual presentation.
So, while I'd certainly sit through a 45-hour, page-faithful version of LOTR, I'd also have to admit that it would almost inevitably make lousy viewing!
Anyway, I enjoyed the fast pacing of FOTR; I thought it helped lend a urgency to the film that would have evaporated were they spending too much - or any! - time sitting around discussing Beren and Luthien.
I don't like butterscotch, but I do like vanilla. You don't see friggin holy wars over pudding, though, do you?
VANILLA! WHAT!?? WHAT! That's it, I've had it with you vanilla idiots. CARMEL FOREVER!!!
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
... where I can get a leaked alpha version of MASSIVE?
I am not a Tolkien fanatic and not "wise in the lore" but didn't Tolkien write "The adventures of Tom Bombadil"?
this what you want?
It was for sale on ebay. That's all i could find, though. Google didn't have much, sorry.
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
Obligatory response about how "God forbid that film-makers, err umm, PAC's try to feed their families".
He painted a unicorn in outer space. I'm askin' ya, what's it breathin'?
Who the fuck was Feanor anyway? (I know. I'm just making a point) I'm reading the Silmarillion now and I can't even recall one of his sons!
But c'mon. Where else are you going to hear Sindarin, Quenya, Dwarvish SUNG in a choir? The Lament for Gandalf, sung in Elvish? DANG!
Where else are you going to see Barad-dur or Orthanc, or Minas Tirith? Or Shadowfax, or the Argonath? Or Fangorn, or Minas Morgul, the Dead Marshes, Oliphants, Fell Beasts, Balrogs, Nazgul!
PANT PANT PANT...
Disappointing?!!? You been smoking the pipeweed?
I remember seeing a television show about this kind of logic used to animate some scenes from "The lion king". Apparently no one was able to animate a stampede of several thousand zebras by hand.
We believe that Peter Jackson and New Line Cinema's actions are in fact hate speech. The movie is intentionally being named The Two Towers in order to capitalize on the tragedy of September 11.
Um, you don't think maybe it was named for the book written like 30 years ago?
Search first, ask questions later.
the protest site says they believe Peter Jackson
is engaging in hate speech.
the petition site has all these signatures but you temporarly can't see them because of sircam
virus....they have been saying that since last
spring.
I think you can't see them because most of the
people who have responded have actually entered
comments telling them to get a life.
Truth is they are the ones soiling the memory of Sept 11 by attempting to attatch a bogus
issue to it.
Fortuneately no one is taking them seriously
and they are being ignored.
Looking forward to seeing " The Two Towers"
All they had to do to get a large crowd of filty obese creatures of myth was to film a comic convention.
I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
The first thing that pooped into my mind when reading the article was that this could put a whole new spin on games like Myth. I mean if you could use a somewhat simplified version of the control nodes and behaviors to generate an army-- and your opponent (or the computer) did the same-- you could create some awesome battles. Even in the case of individual battles, the idea of better ai for each character is pretty compelling ;-) Oh, and for more fun, throw in some genetic/adaptive algorithms and watch as your characters get better and better...
One ring to rule them all....
Sorry!
Hmm, this reading thing sounds like some kind of client/server wetware interface. Does that make LoTR cyberpunk? :^)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Funny that, I always thought it was because nobody in his right mind would buy or read a novel of that magnitude. Granted the complete LotR pales in comparison to Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, but nobody who reads that (myself included) can be considered in his right mind.
Oh cruel fate, to be thusly boned! Ask not for whom the bone bones; it bones for thee. -Bender
pooped into my mind
He painted a unicorn in outer space. I'm askin' ya, what's it breathin'?
is that you assume, in the form of moderation points, exactly what you set out to prove.
He does? I have never heard of him.
What's wrong with PJ's LOTR? I think these are the main thing people complain about:
1. It's too fast! They left out too much stuff!
You need to keep one thing in mind: this movie is not a "book moved to the silver-screen". It's a movie adaptation of a book. Movies and books are completely different kinds of media. Movies are a visual media that can be only few hours long. Books rely on the imagination of the reader, and they can be of any length. You can spend, days, weeks, months reading a book. And because of that, the book can be full of characters and details. That's just not possible in a movie. Movie of a book WILL be different, that is a fact. They will be different for the simple reason that books and movies are completely different medias.
2. Where's Tom Bombadil?
Tom Bombadil had nothing to do with the story. He would have just made the movie longer (20 minutes?), and the movie was already as long as it could be. What would they then remove from the story in order to fit in a Bombadil-sidetrack? And I don't know about you, but Tom Bombadil would have looked stupid in the movie
3. What's the deal with Arwen/Glorfindel?
Glorfindel had no major role in the book. You could remove him, and it would not change the story one bit. Arwens character needed to be widened, so that viewers would have at least one female character. And besides, had they handled Arwen like they did in the books, they would have mentioned Arwen in one half-sentence, and then, in the third part, Aragorn suddenly marries her! Viewers would have been too confused.
4. But the movie ends differently than the book does!
Yes it does. For the simple reason that the books ending would not work in a movie. Movie needs a climax in the end. In the book, there was no real climax. It was spread between the end of first book and the beginning of the second. That would not work in a movie.
5. But they changes Saruman as well!
Read my first point. Saruman was a complex character. They needed to simplify him for the movie. a few hours long movie simply doesn't have the luxury a book does when it comes to complex characters.
Seriously: you seem like one of those fanatics who think that "any change to the book = bad!". They needed to make changes to the book in order to make a movie out of it. Had they not made any changes, each episode would be about 20 hours long, cost about one billion each and be a commercial flop.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
What's so big a deal about computer generated crowds? It's been done since computers are actively used for visual effects (remember the Skeleton Army from Living Dead?).
Yeah, sure they are more detailed nowadays... but that's the beauty of technology, everything improves over time.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Tolkien and the LOTR movies, but I don't get how 6 pictures of scanned pages can generate such irrelevant headline on Slashdot.
Welley Corporation - SLM Scammers
Where did that come from?
Wait, lemme guess... your DM killed your 73rd level Elf last night.
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
Take a good long look at the subject of the post you replied to...
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
You have work?
Don't knock it.
Hey man, I hear you. Nothing's worse than babysitting a computer. Anytime I'm in that situation I always check out the Work Sucks website for some laughs.
****In fact, if there is anything that I find stingy abut Tolkien's writing, it is his brevity of description in the (for lack of a better term) action/otherwise-awe-inspiring sequences (on the plus side, this leaves one hungry for more).****
.. i'm in no ways a literature expert or not even a student of it. i did like fotr(movie) though, in my opinion it's just about as good movie adaption as you can do of it.
this, is actually(most of the times) the most distinct seperation between 'pulp' and 'heavy duty literature' (i lack better english words, sry).
the more detailed the telling is to little irrelevant details the less the writer has to tell about the actualy story and less the reader has to imagine, making reading faster. you can probably read all the harry potters faster than lotr(silmarillion not even counted..), even though the latest harry potter is very thick as to what comes to thickness, which is what most people use as meter to how hard the book is for the reader(whic, of course has nothing to do with reality but that's how people meter things).
sometimes you can't imagine a 30page short story to be fitted in 3 hour movie, while sometimes you could except 300page novel fit in the same space easily.. i've stopped hoping for straight-direct-very-honest movie versions of some good books because they would be most of the time just plain impossible, it's much easier to imagine the process to go the other way around since books can be more forgiving, you can explain that 2.5hour movien in few pages easily and focus on the parts that you want.
i like both pulp and 'non-pulp' literature, depending heavily on the book, you can do both very crappy too.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
The Two Towers game trailer commercial looks better than the movie. The massive number of Orcs(?) pounding on their chest plates getting ready to charge is very cool and meaningfull to those who've seen the beginning of this army created in the first movie. I still like the Bashi version best though, with the wet haired, big eye, sharp toothed Gollum.
I know some of these LOTR nerds are fat, but there's reason to throw around hurtful words like massive.
What? It's not that?
Carry on.
The other contender is Walmart.com. The price is the same, and you have to pay $3 shipping, but if you preorder, you get a free t-shirt.
I'm not affiliated with either, just sharing my findings (and hoping if someone else knows of better deals, they'll post back!)
Cool funny t-shirts for geeks, gamers and everyone else
I'd always thought that the meaning of the two towers changed through time.
Originally it was Minas Morgul/Minas Tirith, but at the time of TTT, it had changed to Minas Tirith/Barad Dur. The change occasioned by by Osgilliath being ruined.
[i]The Adventures of Tom Bombadill[/i] was written as a childrens book, based on a doll that he had given to his son Christopher. Also Tom was one of Tolkiens first inhabitants of Middle-Earth.
Have to wonder, though - will the /. community cheer the said [pornographic] production similarly? ;^)
Well, that gives a whole new meaning to "the sound of one hand clapping"...
Freedom: "I won't!"
Autonomous computer animation is the future. Unfortunately, while it is intended to lower the amount of work required to achieve a scene, it's sure to be built up to a level of detail requiring the same armies of hundreds of animators that previous computer animation required.
This is exactly what I'm fearing about the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy adaptation.
How do you film something that's described like, "The Vogon ship hung low in the sky in exactly the way that bricks don't."
...?
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
10,000 orcs getting it on? Don't know if it'd get me reaching for the moisturiser...
because he's a hobbit?
"And like that
So why exactly did they decide to put Bill the pony in the movie for all of 5 seconds? He had nothing to do with the story, and never even did the scene where they got Bill the pony, but they say goodbye to him before going into the mines in the movie. That always puzzled me
Were these stampeding lions attacking each other with weapons, choosing which combatants to fight against, oh nevermind that have you even seen LOTR 2 yet? If not -- SHUT UP AND WAIT.
"And like that
everyone I've talked to tells me it reminds them of the bible.
No thanks.
LOTR is exciting, uses lots of CGI and the geek factor is high. I really can't wait untill the twin towers. When Hollywood makes great movies like this the whole MPAA trying to take away our rights thing doesn't sound so bad...
Holywood deserves pay for its products (cool or shity, as their costumers decides).
Holywood does not deserve to get control of every type of indormation exchange and information processing and usage, wether legal or not, wether movie related or not just because they need to protect their bottom line.
They are acting like a cancerous cell, which for it's own minute purpose will eat all the systems of it's sorounding organism. And (the US) society's immune system does nothing to stop them so far.
So yes, LOTR movies are nice (I personally am not so excited by CGI and special effects. A good story is more important IMHO), but this price is way too high. I will not pay it, and the world cannot pay it.
If the US cannot restrain its' media corporations, the rest of the world will find other means of information exchange and processing. To the ultimate loss of the US.
Working for necessity's mother.
Actually, this was done already in a major motion picture: Eyes Wide Shut. The orgy scenes in the manor included some CGI-created people f*cking. Unfortunately, most of hte effects were removed prior to the film's release to obtain an R rating.
-nd
"You can always rely on me;
I've got the power, I've got the speed"
re-arranging slightly....
/. feels about them. YES. +5 /. respects? WETA, yup, /. respects them. Hmmm... -2
Does the article cover something of extreme interest to nerds? YES, duh! +2
Does the article cover some aspect that nobody knew about before? YES. +1
Is the article posted on a for-free fan site? YES. +1
Did the article come from an evil corporation? Popular Science is owned by AOL Time Warner and we all know how
Does the article cover somebody
That totals up to +3, and so is morally ambiguous
Don't take offense at what follows. I'm a LotR fan too; I'm just tired of whiny Tolkien geeks.
Can you name the seven sons of Fëanor? His mother? His father?
No, no, and no.
His significance, even?
Didn't he make the Silmarils or something?
I really wanted to like PJ's version of LOTR, but it was too fast.
That's because it was, wait for it, a MOVIE. You can't put everything from the book in the movie, unless you want a 36 hour film. Now, I know that you'd love that, but the rest of us wouldn't. They can't make enough money from people like you to justify a 36 hour movie. Sorry.
Too bad about Tom B.
Why? Tom Bombadil and the even more ridiculous Goldberry might be the biggest flaws in all the books. Every time I reread the series, I skim over the whole Bombadil fiasco until they get to Bree. When I heard they were leaving T.B. out of the movie, I breathed a huge sigh of relief.
1. It's too fast! They left out too much stuff!
True, *Real_Tolkien_Fanatics* require 6 movies, at least 3 hours long. The extended DVD should help, but not enough. I am continually amazed at Peter Jackson's triage ability to determine the important points and find a way to cram them in the film.
2. Where's Tom Bombadil?
Tom Bombadil is an important part of Middle Earth, if not the story. Peter Jackson is right in always being willing to meddle with the story and not with Middle Earth. I think the reason Bombadil (and more specifically the Old Forest) could be left out is that the "Gandalf rides to Gondor" and the introduction already introduce us to first&second age Middle Earth.
3. Whats the deal with Arwen/Glorfindel?
The bigger change is putting the elf (either one) on the horse with Frodo. Also, the horse can easily outrun the Nazgul (this irritated all kinds of equestrian types, once the Nazgul where encased in armour there is no chance of them catching an elf mount). See more Arwen gripes below.
4. But the movie ends differently than the book does
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is unforgivable. Hopefully Peter Jackson will produce a DVD that gets it right. Tolkien was a vetran and knows Frodo will be shell shocked for life. Its very important that Frodo *does*not*live*happily*ever*after*. A better ending would be for Frodo to intentionally tackle Gollumn and throw both of them into the flames (note that I haven't been keeping up with the leaks). Note that to keep the "Gollumn falls alone in the lava" ending, Gandalf must spare Saruman's life (this is about as fundamental as things get in LOTR). Ignoring the other consequences of this is pretty foolish.
Since Jackson has already programed the scourging of the shire, I hope that this can be fixed.
5. But the change Saruman as well.
This is pretty stupid. There really is no reason to make Saruman admit to himself his enslavement to Mordor. It would only take a few seconds ("I've got a wonderful idea"), to show this.
The worse change is Aragon. The film variety is a complete wimp next to the book. Don't ask me how the "Aragon views the Peletar" will be done (probably cut due to the lack of Aunidille (not bothered to check the spelling).
Finally:
I am one of those who believe that all changes to the story=bad. I will admit that some make sense (Arwen's "all my grace to you, Frodo" scene justifies her on the horse (but not the slow horse). The direct flip/flop on wether Gandalf lights firecrackers for hobbit children shows Jackson ability to understand the book and show it on film. The end of the book is fundamental and Tolkien insisted that it was required from the events at the start of the book.
The total cost would hardly be much more than the present cost (I imagine that model creation for charecters and locations is the main cost for this film). Also judging by the money made and Hollywood greed for sequals, the 20 hour version may yet be made (the legal issues of CGI modification to make different actors look like the same charecters would be interesting).
An annoyed ent.
Ents are also annoyed that the they saved the day in the _Two_Towers_ but got less than a second in the trailer.
Why shouldn't they put Bil the Pony there? Bil doesn't distract from the main story (Bombadil would), Bil doesn't increase the length of the movie (something Bombadil would). Honestly, there are no drawbacks in having Bil there, there would be plenty of drawbacks of having Tom there.
If something doesn't add to the story doesn't automatically mean that it shouldn't be there. But if that "something" doesn't add a thing to the story, but it also requires alot of screen-time, would look stupid, would confuse the viewers... Then it has to go. Bil the Pony doesn't take screen-time, doesn't look stupid nor does it confuse the viewers, so it can stay.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
Next up is the discussion of CG Golum vs. CG Yoda.
:)
Not a fair comparison. Lucas has admitted that the CGI Yoda was deliberately 'dumbed down' to look like the puppet Yoda. When they made him 'realistic' he didn't look enough like Yoda. So they stiffened him up and made his ears wiggle like the puppet.
Gollum on the other hand is based on motion capture and made as realistic as possible.
No, the people having sex were real. What happened for ther US release is that they composited this people in the way so that it wouldn't be so graphic. You can spot like a few couples that don't move stratigically placed here and there.
The worst part was that they claimed Kubrick wanted it that way, but if that was the case then why did the European version didn't have that "censoring"?
Takes a bit of brains to work out why this is both On Topic and Funny.
Firstly, the Two Towers trailer features music cribbed from the movie Requiem for a Dream. This movie has, as it's climax, a harrowing scene involving Jennifer Connelly's smackhead character being forced to use a double-ended dildo on another nameless girl for the benefit of a crowd of leering men. The direction hollered at them being "Ass to Ass"
Now, the conversation on this article got on to CGI porn, the logical progression of realistic looking CGI scenes. So, why not use the technical ability of the people behind the FX for The Two Towers, and suggest a reinactment of the scene from Requiem?
It's a very clever posting, and deserves to be modded higher.
Fuzzy logic assigns a proportion of truth (between 0 and 1) to each fuzzy logic value. A proportion of truth is not the same thing as a probability.
Fuzzy logic theory is just that, a theory, and in its pure form has nothing whatsoever to do with probability, but applying it to make classical logic decisions requires unfuzzing the truth values, and this is generally done by interpreting the values as probabilities.
For example, the software package that is the subject of this article does exactly this, I'm sure. Each character has a variety of fuzzy characteristics, like anger, but when it's time to figure out what the character is going to actually *do* the software derives a fuzzy value for the character's state of mind and then interprets that value as a probability, rolls a virtual die and converts the probability to a decision.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
"4. But the movie ends differently than the book does
..he was referring to the ending of the first movie. It ends a little into the second book. Thanks, though, for spoiling it for hundreds of thousands of /. readers.
/. readers who haven't read the books yet.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is unforgivable. Hopefully Peter Jackson will produce a DVD that gets it right. Tolkien was a vetran and knows Frodo will be shell shocked for life. Its very important that Frodo *does*not*live*happily*ever*after*. A better ending would be for Frodo to intentionally tackle Gollumn and throw both of them into the flames (note that I haven't been keeping up with the leaks). Note that to keep the "Gollumn falls alone in the lava" ending, Gandalf must spare Saruman's life (this is about as fundamental as things get in LOTR). Ignoring the other consequences of this is pretty foolish."
OK, OK, thanks for spoiling it for the 3-4
Probably too old for most of you, but anyone else catch the Vulcan hand in the end of "Logan's Run"?
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
There's one main reason why they give Bill his name... so that you can relate to Sam.
To Sam, Bill was not just a nameless beast of burden, but a friend. You get more of an insight into Sam than you would otherwise.
It makes his loyalty to Frodo that much more believable. And at about 3 seconds of screen time, relatively cheap to pass on, compared to the many minutes of pointless Tom B.
Gotta disagree with you on a bunch of these points... ;)
> Putting the elf on the horse with Frodo:
a) Equestrian types complaining about horses under the influence of thousand-year-old mystic spirits... should learn to suspend their disbelief; why wouldn't these horses be enchanted in special, performance-enhancing ways? Or is Mordor above the use of magic steroids?
b) putting someone else on the horse with Frodo
Actually, this works to enhance the tension regarding whether or not Frodo will take the ring at the Council. If he had already shown that degree of courage (at the river), then the moment of taking ont he burden of the ring would be less dramatic. It's all about visually-depicting drama, which is very different from verbally-depicted drama.
> the movie ends differently than the book does. NOOOOOOOO!!
I believe the prior comment referred to the FOTR movie, which took its ending from the beginning of TTT. We dont know exactly how ROTK (or TTT!) will end yet - because it's not out yet! sure, PJ said that the Scouring won't happen, but that doesn't eliminate Frodo going to the Havens (which to my mind is more important to the themes you mention than the Scouring).
> But the change Saruman as well. This is pretty stupid.
Actually, this simplifies the newbie audience's understanding of the villains in a very useful way; Saruman = a big henchman + Sauron is the biggest villain. Having them in opposition to one another would very confusing, esp. as Sauron's influence is only shown indirectly (through his minions) in the Third Age - he's never actually in the same scene! Whether this works can be disagreed with, but it's certainly not an unmotivated, useless change.
> The worse change is Aragon. The film variety is a complete wimp next to the book.
In the book we are able to learn a _lot_ of backstory on Aragorn via stories, _many_ dialogue asides, and also the appendices. For the movie, they moved this character arc (of taking on the role of king, which in the book was more or less determined at the Council of Elrond, with everything else filled in later via dialogue) into the story that they could show (movies that show = good movies; movies that tell = dull movies.). So... look for Aragorn to "grow" into his destined role as king.
> Ents are also annoyed that the they saved the day in the _Two_Towers_ but got less than a second in the trailer.
Hope you're being facetious with this one - the ents are going to be the big visual surprise for those who know about them, and a complete surprise for those who don't! That's why it's a trailer, vs. a "sampler".
arggh, should be getting work done...
Stephen Regelous developed the software used at Weta for LotR, and later formed a company to commercialize it: They had a booth at the SIGGRAPH 2002 Exhibition.
Personal favourites from Peter Jackson
Bad Taste - Filmed on the weekends (I understand). Favourite bit are "The Boys" with a Ford Capri and the giant Warfdale speakers in the back seat.
Braindead - For those who have seen this, when I walked out of the theatre, down the stairs, it was almost exactly the same layout as the huge gore scene in the house.
Peter Jackson usually makes a cameo appearance in his films. In "The Frighteners" with Michael J Fox he is in the scene where the dork husband has just died and is following Michael J Fox up the street (I am quite sure). Big Bearded Guy.
The weathers here - Wish you were beautiful
If we get to see more of Arwen!
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
(Frodo suddently ages twenty-seven years without any significant events?)
Yet more fodder for the theory that Frodo = Christ.
It was a small collection of poems, some of which had appeared previously in other publications, and few of which had any sort of link to Tom Bombadil or even Middle-earth.
Easy, you just film it in exactly the same way Neaderthals don't.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
"This looks like a job for the boys"
"You'll never guess what i had to do"
"Um, drink some sick?"
"I'm coming to get you fellas!"
Sorry, couldn't resist. A masterpiece of modern cinema that was.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think that the only problem with losing Tom Bombadil was that it made the first part of the journey look too short. I wasn't looking for 10 minutes of extra footage but a few short cut shots of different areas could have made the trip seem more difficult and lengthy like it seemed in the book.
Is is just me? Or has there been no mention of the Ents in any of the preview material. Will they be completly CG? C. Alan 'The ents crawl in, the ents crawl out, the ents play peanuckle on your snout...'
um isnt the twin towers a new zealand production?
If I remember correctly this work was done by Craig Reynolds. Famous in A-Life circles for his boids algorithm for flocking birds.
In a nutshell, the each bird uses the following rules:
1. Match the velocity of the group
2. Move towards the centre of mass of the group
3. Move away from the nearest neighbour
Now, obviously, each rule gives a different vector (maybe even opposite for 2 and 3) which are then weighted and summed for the resultant motion. Stir and repeat. These simple rules give remarkably realistic looking results and are a good example of emergent behaviour which is the hallmark of A-Life.
Yeah I actually heard that from Rob coleman himself. Not actually "dumbed down" but animated so it matched the puppet as closely as possible, in particular the ears as you mentioned, and the lip movements. But as far as other aspects, like skin shaders, compositing, etc. I say both are on about equal terms.
Besides you could make the other side of the arument. I doubt they mocaped anyone climbing down a sheer rock face head down first as shown on the trailer. I think there are articles saying that not al Gollum was mocaped, after all Randy Cook is animation supervisor.
In the end both are fantasy characters and look great.
Don't click - the link is booby trapped!!!!!
Get real, The Two Towers does not read The Twin Towers.
Am I missing something?
The Twin Towers had planes crash into them, the Two Towers is a film based on a book, you wanna tell me its anything different, well talk to the hand cause the face ain't listening.
personally, I dont see how that 3 second clip added anything, to me it just seemed totally random that all of the sudden with. Yes, Bill was a friend in the book, and was used to show lots of insight to Sam's character, but in the movie I actually consider it a waste of 3 seconds that only confuses people who have never read the book and see it at completely random
All programmers are optimists. Perhaps this modern sorcery especially attracts
those who believe in happy endings and fairy godmothers. Perhaps the hundreds
of nitty frustrations drive away all but those who habitually focus on the end
goal. Perhaps it is merely that computers are young, programmers are younger,
and the young are always optimists. But however the selection process works,
the result is indisputable: "This time it will surely run," or "I just found
the last bug."
-- Frederick Brooks, "The Mythical Man Month"
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