Slashdot Mirror
Keeping Balance with Vibrating Shoes
DrLudicrous writes "The NYTimes (free registration) is running an article that summerizes a forthcoming Physical Review Letters article. The article is about how low amplitude vibrations can help a person better sense when they are off balance. The authors write that they improved the balance of senior citizens by using small vibrations in the floor, making their sense of balance like that of a 25 year old. Apparently, this background noise helps to stimulate the neurons in the feet, making them more susceptible to detecting imbalances."
Ivan Pavlov would be proud. :)
So all the BASS played in a club is so a drunk can walk around trying to pick up chicks and still stand!
You can have it fast, accurate, or pretty. Pick any 2.
I was under the impression balance was primarily controlled by the inner ear... how much of an effect do your feet really have with this?
SIG: HUP
The article is about how low amplitude vibrations can help a person better sense when they are off balance.
I must use this new technology to disrupt Spiderman's Spidey Sense! Bring out the Megalatrogolagolotron!!!
(mutters to self) It must be his weakness.
i should be able to balance really well during an earthquake.
...I'm standing and can't fall down
That's interesting, but I thought balance was mostly felt and controlled by the inner ear, regardless of which body part was making surface contact. Maybe they should study the LF effects there too.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
making their sense of balance like that of a 25 year old
perhaps they should qualify that with a sober 25 year old...
They're going to have 75 year old women stradle a subwoofer while listening to Dr. Dre.
I can just imagine... all fans in my PC must give me the balance of a cat :)
Researcher 2: *silence*
Researcher 1: This has nothing to do with my blind-the-senior project for better visual acuity project!
Current research is showing that a lot of the problems with the elderly and having accidents - vehicular or otherwise - is strongly correlated with attentional problems that they have. Their functional field of view suffers and, combined with other things is responsible for a lot of their problems.
So, while this vibrational shoe may have some balance effects, it's only part of the problem that they're fixing.
A planet where apes evolved from men? Long live the apes.
Now it's actually a Good Thing to crank the stereo at grandma's house. Of course, now that I think about it, it is grandma's house: the old Wallensack really can't get all that loud...
- DDT
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
...so now we can blame bad vibes for our aversion towards crotchety old ladies. I can see it now:
"Mama! I don't like Mrs. Thompson. She's giving off bad vibes!"
Here's another links. I didn't feel like registering.
I wonder if this technology could be applied to healthy individuals to allow higher than normal agility maybe for soldiers fighting in unstable enviroments where they may lose their footing.
Slashdotter are stupid and biased.
Balance of a 25 year old eh? I seem to recall spending a fair amount of time staggering around.
X)
Next time somebody threatens to shove their foot up your ass, it may bring new sensations.
These brooms.. they vibrate?
Bad balence be damned! When I am a senior citizen I'll be driving around in one of those cool little cart things. Isn't that the whole reason to even grow old?
Stanley Feinbaum, professional journalist and master debater! God bless the USA!
> Apparently, this background noise helps to stimulate the neurons in the feet, making them more susceptible to detecting imbalances
I think the real breakthrough here is that they found neurons in our feet!
But does it mean that after some time they will get used to it? And have even more problems walking on "just" a floor? Or, like with any stimulators, will they need increasing amplitude/freq over time?
This was in New Scientist a fortnight ago (and that on -publication- date)! What a slow pick-up... :)
Seems it has to be random movement noise because any signal which is both repetitive and apparently irrelevant gets 'ignored' pretty quickly by the brain - after all, there's all kinds of signals coming through all the time like the feeling of your socks on your feet that you're not consciously aware of (though bet you are now, eh?).
Also, it's not really about balance (which, people are right, is sited in the middle ear primarily) and more to do with thresholds for detection - having random movement / vibration happening anyway means that the body swaying off-balance is likely in one phase to be reinforced by the vibration enough that it goes above threshold and the body realises that there's uneven pressure in the feet and corrects it - neat, no?
Has anyone else heard about the research into people balancing sticks on their fingertips, and how this has to do with random neuro-muscular noise, but generated by the body instead?
I didn't realize that growing old was optional! Cool!
So, where do I go to tell them "No"?
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
This sounds like it's very good news to seniors and multiple sclerosis patients.
For those of you who don't know, people with multiple sclerosis often have problems with sight, balance, and sensation in general.
Do you think there is any possibility for this to benefit MS patients as well as older people?
If it does, it sounds very intriguing. People like my mother have a very hard time keeping their balance regularly -- you can imagine what its like in the icy winter. I'd like to see more info on this research, however.
Combining vibrators and old people in the same article, no good can come of this.
-- Any comments seen here are not mine, but a mixture of alchohol and lack of sleep.
Judging by most of the 25 years I know, this is not a good thing...
Is this before or after the 1/8th of weed and three 40's of King Cobra???
Cloud City Digital: DVD Production at its cheapest/finest
What about an entire vibrating suit?
It would be a crying shame if the vision were limited to "vibrating shoes."
Kit out a wetsuit with those buzzing bad boys, and watch the elderly jump, dance, and screw like 25 year olds.
Damm if only i could get the neurons in my feet to learn how do dance! That'd be awesome!
"If God created us in his own image we have more than reciprocated." - Voltaire
.. giving somewhat cool technology to the people that are most afraid of it.
...who would buy one of these just for "fun" >kof kof kof<
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
Hmmm,
I've heard that we 'see' things through tiny vibrations of our eyes... perhaps we could do the same thing to their eyeballs and make them better drivers (wider field of vison)
MS patients, seniors as well as those with vertigo related problems could really have an improved lifestyle if this works out. Come to think of it, this technology once it advances could be good as safety equipment for construction workers, bridge builders etc.
Ugghh, yesss...vibrating shoes. Mmmmmmmm!
I can see it now, people walking down the street having orgasms from the shockwaves of their vibrating shoes.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
I went on a tour of the labs at Boston University and they had a lab that was working on this. They ran a demonstration with a subject from the crowd and it really does seem to work. Their explanation was that the body needs a certain amount of 'noise' in its sensory input to work properly (as a kind of reference level).
====
Crudely Drawn Games
Nothing new or magical in the theory, but it is a really cool application. Kudos to the researchers.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
If shaking the floor makes it easier for old people to get around then does this mean that California will become the new retirement playground for senior citizens?
:-)
California, the state where Quake is more than just a game
all the while the vibrations make it more frustrating due to increased difficulties in making it to the bathroom on time
http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
The Kind of Noise That Keeps a Body on Balance
Oh, I see.
This is just the next version of the iBrator.
Let's see, how would you do a double blind experiment with these shoes? How can you get shoes that vibrate to not let someone know that they're vibrating?
Miracle cures like this seem to work the following way:
- Scientist invents theory to explain something.
- Inventor invents application to test theory.
- Researcher tests application by a small set of usually questionable experiments.
- Experiment is judged a success by the researcher. (Of course it is, what sort of researcher would claim a failure?)
- Investor funds building of these devices
- People buy "scientifically proven" trinkets.
If any part of this process isn't rigorously tested, then the end result is questionable.The sad part of all this is that the cure actually might work, simply because the vibration tells the person that the miracle shoes are working and therefore the person will try harder to balance. After all, they bought those miracle shoes at quite a hefty price, so therefore they should be working!
Never underestimate the value of a well-marketed placebo.
I am artificially intelligent.
Now I've got a picture in my head of dozens of seniors, linked arm in arm, moving helplessly
up and down the aisles at Walmart...
I'm sorry, I cant help it...it's just the way I am.
It's supposed to be completely automatic, but actually you have to press this button.
It isn't the vibrational energy that is stimulating the neurons in the feet. Instead it's the additional quantity of information (that can be conveyed to the brain along aging pathways), by mixing in some noise. It may sound counterintuitive that noise can increase the resolution of a signal, but it makes sense. Imagine a signal is quantized in steps, and a sample could possibly fall between the discretely measurable points of sensitivity, and get lost. By adding noise enough to 'blur' the sample into a range that will always cross one sample boundary, then it will be detected more frequently. Even if it's blurred to cross two or three at a time, the relative activation of the seperate 'sensor nodes' allows an accurate determination of the actual quantity being sampled [given that the sampling resolution sufficiently exceeds the time resolution of changes in the actual value being sampled].
It's called stochastic ressonance.
It's used in some analog to digital converters, and in many other places in engineering, it's been used in electron microscopes, in radio telescopes.
And now, it turns out, it looks like it's used in people! What is really interesting is the question of whether or not the healthy adult body actually has automatic noise generators itself, for precisely this purpose, which may have weakened in the case of the elderly.
---
the pen is mightier than the sword, the sword is mightier than the court, the court is mightier than the pen.
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...will look like they have Parkinson's. "Whoa, you don't even have to put a quarter in her!"
I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
If we give old women vibrating panties, will they stop wetting themselves????
Sometimes my thoughts scare me, too.
GRRRRRR!
DROS - Open-Source Robot Software
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I guess it somehow relates to the fact that one feels dizzy and looses balance when we have an ear infection?
[alk]
I could sure use some smart shoes or white-noise socks, my sense of balance is destroyed. I had an acoustic neuroma, when they remove it they cut your vestibular nerve in one ear, otherwise you have permanent vertigo. The best way I can explain it, is that my sense of balance is now mono instead of stereo. My doctor said there are three components to balance, pressure feedback through the skin, position feedback from the body and skeleton, and visual feedback. The doc said my sense of balance is now "visually dependent" so I have to be able to see clearly or I can lose my balance. When it's dark or the footing is rough or loose gravel, I stumble around like I'm drunk. This is horribly embarrasing, but more than that, it's a health risk. I took one balance test and barely passed, and I asked what it measured, the physiotherapist said it is to determine if you should use a cane or a walker. Poor scores meant a dramatically higher likelihood of broken arms, legs, and hips from falls, and subsequently, greater mortality.
I can imagine that this technology could be great for young people as well. Especially the nerdy type slashdot crowd.
I know I for one love to play sports and whatnot, but there is this problem of me sucking atrociously. I can run really fast, but coordination is so poor that bad things happen to me at these breakneck speeds. In fact, I can hardly even watch sports with my poor balance (4 or 5 times fallen on the bleachers this season). Shoes like this could add a lot of enjoyment to my fraternities pick up football games. Hey, we could even try intermurals next year! And us engineers would be the only frat nerdy enough to know about it!
...or does it summarise?
I am the Monarch of the Sea, I wish i had a shiny new pair of vibrating shoes.
I think you're all forgetting that the feet have nothing to do with balance. the mechanism for balance in the human body is the inner ear!
They're using their grammar skills there.
While the rest of the world waits for Quake 4, California is already at what, Quake 2000?
As a few people already said in this discussion, this system works by increasing the amount of infomation that body is getting from the feet. The vibrations work by stimulating a class of mechanoreceptor that normally only sends signals when pressure is applied and when it is taken off.
When you walk these receptors send signals when your foot hits the ground and when your foot leaves the ground. The whole time your foot is on the ground these receptors do not send any signals. The vibrating shoes would work by constantly stimulating these mechanoreceptors, increasing the amount of signals that your brain (and spinal motor neurons) are receiving. These same mechanoreceptors also mediate adaptation, so by constantly stimulating them, you would eliminate that problem too.
I'm no expert on cars but I'm told that when a transmission is about to go, you can forestall any symptoms by putting what is basically a glue, a thickener. This causes a hideous amount of wear to the transmission, however, and will simply accelerate the breakdown, but someone giving the car a once-over or a drive will notice nothing amis.
...at what expense, if any, are they getting this performance boost? Are you essentially overclocking the neurons doing the work, causing them to just burn out that much faster?
...what else does it effect? Does it cause hypertension? Increased irritability? I'm just really skeptical that this technique just happens to help one thing through such a relatively clumsy, non-focused method and get away with harming nothing else in the process. Drugs with only precise effects and nothing bad are more or less the holy grail of pharmaceuticals.
Anyway, what I'm driving at is
Further, the article states:
"For electrical signals, the low levels of noise essentially tickle the membranes of the neurons," he said, making them more likely to fire when there is a physical stimulus of some amplitude. For mechanical signals, noise serves to boost weak stimuli. "The experiment is a good example of how noise lets a neuron fire in the company of a signal that it is normally unable to detect,'' Dr. Collins said."
That's great, sounds like they're simply boosting the baseline so that it takes a smaller signal to breach the neuron firing threshold. Well
Just a thought. This isn't a troll and I know even less about neuroscience than I know about cars (at least I know where to put the oil).
My
Limekiller
Neurons in the feet? What's next? Teeth in your armpits?
Will these shoes give us white people soul?
Okay, you're not fooling anyone here. I for one am onto your plot to get a "prescription" for this vibrating shoe from your doc just so you can stick it down your pants.
How did I catch on so fast, you ask? You admitted being an engineer, in a fraternity, playing sports, and you're reading Slashdot. Clearly a real world impossibility... And your doc will figure it out just as quickly, especially when you ask for just one shoe. So get a backup, preferably for the other foot the throw him off...
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
But what I wanna know is how the hell am I supposed to fit a shoe in my pants?
Lets hear it for vibrating cell phones and pagers!
-nwp
Sounds like Dithering to me.
postmodernsideshow.com
I don't know about this vibrating floor thing. I didn't ever work out to hot form my Electric Football game I had when I was younger. The vibrating floor seem to make them all run ut of bounds and fall over all the time. The fact that the same technique works on Seniors is really mind boggling.
Two Towers-Two Worlds.One seeks triumphs and freedom for man.The other deems man unworthy and wrecks them.
Maybe if we send a 30Hz tone directly into the floor, we can give you the added sensory data to turn you into a breakdancing, body-rocking machine. (sorry... no disrespect intended)
BTW: do you know how the Whirling Dervishes do their thing? they spin with their heads held still, cocked at what looks like a 45 degree angle, and turned into the spin. I know that ballet dancers hold their heads still, and then whip them around 180 degrees into a spin, which helps with orientation.
How does the Dervish method help, though? Does the inner-ear eventually ignore a constant acceleration? A friend thought that the angle would make the dancer feel like they were "rising" and help them with their balance. Looks pretty hard though.
I've got a bad attitude and karma to burn. Go ahead. Mod me down.
Vibrating Shoes? I want vibrating pants!
see the word "vibrating". I can think of atleast one better application for this technology. :)
If memory serves me correct, NASA / Russia have been using vibrations under astronauts' / cosmonauts' feet as therapy for those returning to Earth after long stays in space (ISS / MIR). Granted, this specific usage was to help increase bone mass in the legs, but we may have NASA to thank yet again for another cool discovery.
N-n-no, darling, they're for your feet.
(Sorry.)
We had the whole geriatric ward up and around for the first time in ages with the new shoes. Now all they do is sit on their feet....
Cake or Death? Cake Please!
You'll have alotta people rippin off...
I Feel GOOD!
Like James Brown...
Hey! I just thoughta something - What is Mr. Brown had a pair?
I'm guessing you have never been to Palm Springs, have you?
Bow before my sig, for it is good.
You have to have vibrations with very very low amplitude.
Ice skates and rollerblades have a natural vibration induced by imperfections in the surfaces you are skating on. (The same can be said of skiing I expect)On some poorly maintained ice surfaces you can get a mighty bumpy ride.
Hockey skates have recently (in the last 5-7 years) started including vibration reduction materials. As the level of vibration reduced the most noticeable effect at first is simply more comfort. That's why I bought into it, I had to be on my skates 8-12 hours a day.
As the vibrations were reduced to unnoticeable levels I started noticing improvements in my skating, and in the skating of my students and teammates. I always thought that practice had improved our balance, but it seems possible now that the equipment played an unintended role.
I'd love to see a study on this. Did we get an unintended benefit, or is it really just practice ? Some mix ? How much of each ?
I'd also like to see this, if it pans out, included as a feature in skates. The most serious injuries most hockey players, especially youth players, will endure come indirectly from inadequate balance. It would make my sport safer.
I am getting tired of seeing 13 year olds with the knees of 80 year olds after mulitiple surgeries.
Don't post innacurate information
If you do, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
the pen is mightier than the sword, the sword is mightier than the court, the court is mightier than the pen.
So let's all play a game of pen, sword, court? What hand signs do you use?
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
Ya know, that reminds me... we haven't had an earthquake for quite a while. I wonder who you complain to about that.
You're thinking of Kabaddi
and ears in the wall?
making their sense of balance like that of a 25 year old
I don't know which 25 year olds they are talking about, but between the bars and the hangovers, a lot of 25 year olds I know don't exactly have the best balance in the world...
The feet are very involved in the control of balance, as the designers of the Millennium Bridge (a walking bridge over the Thames in London) found out. The feet are much more sensitive to horizontal movement, in fact, than they are to vertical movement. People respond subconsciously to lateral movement of the foot with a restoring force: If a foot is moved a trivial amount to the right, say, the body makes an unconscious movement to return to its original position by pushing the foot to the right (to move the body back to the left). (The evolutionary importance of this fast reaction to slipping is clear.) Since this restoring force is in the same direction as the original movement, amplification can result. As any engineer can tell you, a source of amplification can be a source of oscillation if a resonant structure is available; if the body is on a suspension bridge, a natural resonance of the bridge can be excited. Further, once the bridge begins to sway laterally, people find it most comfortable to walk in phase with the swaying, in a manner that also amplifies the swaying.
The Millennium Bridge was completely stable under conventional dynamic analysis; with a small number people walking on it, or with a large number of people merely standing on it, it was also stable. However, with a large number of people (80,000-100,000) walking on it, as happened on opening day, "unexpected movements occurred." resulting in its temporary closure until modifications (in the form of resonance damping) were made. As described by the designers,
Additional information on the phenomenon of synchronous lateral excitation of bridges is available here.
visions of Ethel and the "bus stop massive" effortlessly rotating on the spot without moving their feet...
You fool! You've given cheese to a lactose intolerant volcano god! Do you know what that means?
Daddy, why is Grandma sitting on the floor and smiling like that?
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Most old folks I know have no trouble making low-pitched vibrating sounds on thier own.
-- Boycott Shell
My psychiatrist told me I was un-balanced.
Would this help me?
- OrbNobz
Live from the Total Perspective Vortex
I wonder why we don't see more old people on ocean cruises - Oh wait we do don't we. I hope I can get my sea legs someday too.
Parkinsons affects the motor side, not the sensory side primarily. So Parkinson's patients have adequate balance sensation as well as proprioception, they just can't initiate the movement soon enough to use the information due to the brain damage. Once they are in motion they balance ok, or when stopped they are. Getting going and stopping are the primary problems.