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Robocoaster
AnswerIs42 writes "Got the announcement thru work email.. but a German company name Kuka has a very unique ride they are demonstrating. It has all the thrills, chills, loops, twists, puke factor of a rollercoaster.. but it only needs 11x12 meters of space! What they did is take a material handling robot (like you would find in any automotive plant) and put 2 seats on it. They also gave it a clever name: Robocoaster. I have a start of a review here, and will post more once I actually go and ride the sucker next month in Detroit. With everything it can do and more... it could start replacing rollercoasters.. perhaps?"
i think so.....
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
"11x12 metres of space"?
Is this ride only for 2D people. I'm gonna wait until they invent a 3D version.
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
They are building a 440 foot coaster at Cedar Point.
Here's some pictures
... I know... Disney is evil.
But Downtown Disney (Orlando, FL) has a huge arcade with a RollerCoaster simulator in it that I rode.
It was lots of fun, especially since you got to build your own roller coaster and then ride it...
But it wasn't perfect to be sure. Real rollercoasters have wind and that is the one main thing that this was missing.
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
Reminds me of the coaster simulator at DisneyQuest (Disney World). The simulator, of course, is really just a simulator -- there's no actual forward movement. Still, worth a look if you're ever down that way.
Roving Web-Teleoperated Robot
The point of a rollercoaster is to provide visual cues to pump the adrenalin - massively steep inclines to begin, followed by a rush as the coaster drops 100ft. The wind in the hair.
This looks more like a barf-o-ride. No sense of real vertigo.
G-forces? How could an automotive robot simulate the intense gravitational forces that are half the fun of rollercoasters? Especially in 11x12m of space?
"Ford," he said, "you're turning into a penguin. Stop it."
Isn't part of the thrill the movement in relation to the ground?
It is for me at least.
When you think of a giant robot arm grabbing you and flinging you around...well, they might as well just have the robot connect straight to your butt with a special adapter.
I seriously doubt these types of rides will ever threaten an amusement park like Ceder Point.
If I had the choice between the Millenium Force and a psuedo-coaster, I'd take the real-deal any time!
"On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
This could be the beginning of machines enslaving humans. Instead of killing us, they just grab us two at a time and shake us until we're really confused.
How is this any different from the "simulator" rides that already exist at theme parks and in Dave & Buster's locations? Basically, those just move you up and down, and tilt and shake you until you wish you had never gotten on the ride.
The problem I have with these sorts of rides is that they don't even come close to a roller coaster experience, for me. No wind (okay, they could solve that with clever ducted fans), but most importantly, no real G-forces. When you go down a steep hill, you feel lighter. When you go around a tight turn, you're glued to your seat. When you go upside down, you're glued to your seat.
Somehow, I suspect that if RoboCoaster turned the car upside down, you'd fall out. Unless they've created a gravity generator.
you can't simulate a huge drop. i doubt i would feel the same anticipation that builds up as you near the top of a coaster. i think these will catch on in malls and arcades but i dont think the rollercoaster industry has anything to worry about. i wish there was a huge centerfuge though, it would be fun to feel like an astronaut
So...sit on the end of a robot arm while it shimmies like Shakira.
Sounds like these robots need something useful to do, like weld truck parts.
The kids will probably like it though. Hope the code is well-tested, so the arm doesn't do a maximum acceleration to -4.323 Z.
...
I am working at a machine automation company, and we work with similar robots. Now, it's time to convince the boss to let me 'borrow' some of these expensive pieces of machinery and 'play'. Knowing how easy (relatively) it is to program these robots I think I could have some fun quite easily.. hmmm.. hmmm..
The reason Santa is so jolly is that he knows where all the bad girls live.
I've tried alot of these sims out, granted not this one, and from my experience I can say that while alot of them are a great deal of fun, they pale in comparison to the real deal. There's something special about real roller coasters, a certain Je ne sais qua.. maybe it's just the fact that you know it's real, or maybe it's just being in the open air, which would explain why the the coasters where you hang instead of sit are the most popular. If they ever make a sim with the true experience of a rollercoaster, it would kick ass and I'd ride them all the time, but I just don't see that happening anyt ime soon.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
...once I actually go and ride the sucker next month in Detroit.
I assume he's referring to this showing up at the North American International Auto Show, but I could be wrong. Anyone have more info (I checked the links) because I'd love to try this thing out.
daed si luap
I could definately see this showing up in malls in the US. I don't think it will replace roller coasters in amusement parks though.
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
When I saw the "Robocoaster" headline, I immediately thought of an AI controlled drink coaster on little wheels that would roll along the table and bring your drink to you.
I guess the "fake roller coaster" thing is kinda cool too though...
Build boards not bombs
America : Japan
CRT : LCD
SUV : Compact hybrid
Rollercoaster: Robocoaster
It's all about lack of space, apparently. Although you would think that the Japanese would choose to invest in giant mecha to CRUSH THE GAIJIN COASTERS TO DUST!!!!
(Then again, that might not be polite.)
This ride should be called "Caught by the Cave Troll" or something.
When you watch the videos - it just looks like the "riders" were picked up by some giant and get thrashed around.
Other problems:
- Microsoft Windows operating system
- Internet connectivity
all ms jokes aside, here is a machine that has the capability to bash you into the floor with impunity and its got two major security risks: being attached to the internet! and running MS OS.
I can just see it now BANG BANG BANG. bashing the riders into the floor.
It would feel a lot more safe if the thing was placed high enough that the arm would *not* be able to touch the floor ever no matter how it was manipulated.
I would like a few of these to see if you could make an actual robot with six of these as legs and arms.
Those things look really cool.
We don't want no stinkin reduced sizes in America. Let the Europeans reduce their sizes, us Americans like our fun MAN SIZED!
...part of the experience is the heights, the scenery you fly by, and so on. I suppose the riders of this could wear VR helmets, but that would be kinda cheap in comparison. Like playing a motorcycle arcade game versus doing the real thing.
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Rollercoaster?
Besides flinging people around in the air, I just can't see the connection here. How would this ever replace a real coaster?
Think about it.
This thing is an arm with a central axis. To simulate forward motion it would have to do this in a circle. At speed it would feel like being in a centrifuge.
The videos show it whipping people in the air. It is neat, but it is not roller coaster like. At all.
-S
We Apprentice Developers and Designers
So they just need to add a smart wind system and some industrial strength fans!
All Your Memory Are Belong To Java
It doesn't say anything about a roller coaster ;)
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Here's an interesting idea if the thing accepts outside commands..
You could develop and fine tune your ride from the coasters web site and show up at the actual ride, input your data and ride away. I imagine the device could be wired directly to the internet and you could logon when in line and pull your config or you could print out a barcode checksum at home of your creation and scan it just before getting on the ride. People could swap barcodes and try each others out and you could vote on a 10 best, it could integrated into Roller Coaster Tycoon or Sim coaster blah blah blah. Hurry, call the patent office...
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
I had a "Mexican wave" once. Next time I'm in Tijuana, the only liquid I'll drink is Tequila.
Coaster sims have been around for years - they're in freaking shopping malls for crying out loud! I know /. geeks don't get out much, but come on...
Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?
With big chunk of neutronium (or somthing else absurdly dense) held above you a'la the McAndrews drive.
"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
To give you the visual aspect of the ride. What fun is it to get thrown all over the place unless it looks like you're high above the park and about to plummet to your doom? Seems like without this visual experience, it would just be nausea inducing.
With the proper VR setup, you could do lots more than just simulate a coaster. How about controlling a space ship, or flying on a magic carpet to fight against a dragon?
I don't see these things replacing coasters anytime soon.
WWJD? JWRTFA!
Yes. There's nothing walmart employees enjoy more than cleaning up children's vomit hurled around the room from the centripetal forces from a spinning robocoaster.
At the Luxor hotel in Las Vegas (it's the huge black pyramid with that 20-kazillion candle-power light on top) they have a "virtual roller coaster" in the arcade. It looks like your typical enclosed VR ride, but it rotates on all 3 axes. I didn't think it was particularly revolutionary, just a fun ride. And it takes a much smaller space than 11x12 meters.
It was interesting, but while they do a nice job of a simulation, they can't get the g forces right for more than an instant. Without gravity generators (which most of use wearing our protective tinfoil hats know the gub'mint is keeping from us) this will never really replace a real 'coaster.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Instead of a "40 foot" arm, build one with a VERY LARGE arm, with the same degrees-of-freedom (or more). I am thinking something like a 150-200 foot long arm (like a huge, multi-jointed, articulated crane arm).
Such a monster of a machine could be easily built with today's technology (look at coal strip mining machines, for example), would take up less space than a conventional coaster, but most important of all, it could easily simulate forward motion (especially if it was a hybrid cartesian/polar/revolute axis type arm, where the base could move laterally in two perpendicular directions, but the arm could still move in a polar or revolute fashion - anybody who works with robot arms knows what I mean here). The size of the machine would make the riders feel they were riding on a virtual track.
While what I was thinking would use way more space than this machine, it would be a great machine for a themepark...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Calling it a coaster is a bit much, as many, many posts here already indicate.
What they *should* have done is stuck a little fiberglass horsey to the end of the arm. Then when "Little Timmy" just won't quit whining at the Supermarket because he just *has* to ride the pretty little pony -- let him.
I bet he won't do *that* again.
KFG
For those of you looking for the real thing, check out Cedar Point in Sandusky, OH. They have 15 roller coasters and 68 other rides. Cedar Point is home to the tallest and fastest roller coaster in the world, the Millenium Force (310ft/94m max height and 93MPH/150KPH max speed). They are open from mid-May through Labor Day (early September). It's a little expensive at $42 (+$8 for parking) though.
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Simulations like these lack some of the major elements that make coasters so fun. I'm a big enthusiast of coasters, and I've ridden a lot of the simulations. They don't compare, here's why generally.
a m/camera1.cfm that?
There's no wind in your hair, which detracts greatly from your sense of speed.
You know that you're in a simulation. One of the things that makes Millenium Force such an awesome ride is that it scares the shit out of you on the way up- you ARE 300 ft up. A lot of the suspense that goes with riding a ride is waiting in the line and getting strapped in. What's going to be more effective, walking into a room or strapping yourself into a metal behemoth like http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/inside_park/webc
Though simulators are good at playing games with your inner ear etc, the sensation of being upside-down or highly banked has never felt quite right to me- again, this probably has a lot to do with the fact that throughout the whole ride I know it's not really happening.
This thing works mostly off of visual cues. That's not going to make the "ride" a lot of fun, it's going to make many of it's passengers sick. Sure, coasters can do that too, but since what your eyes think is happening is more or less actually happening (I say that because good Coaster designers will mess with you a bit), I (personally) find getting sick generally happens much less compared to sims.
Finally, riding coasters is a bit of a psychological ordeal. You are conquering your fears/challenging yourself/trying to push yourself in some way. Sims don't really offer this aspect.
Worry not, roller coasters of the world- you are in no danger.
Yes, that is very common form of motion sickness and affects me mildly. I can't go on simulator rides, but I have no problem with a real rollarcoster.
What is happening in this form of motion sickness is that your eyes are seeing one type of motion, and your ears are feeling another. The conflict between these two makes you sick. This is also a common reason people get sea sick. You feel the boat moving, but the sorroundings you see aren't moving (relative to you, anyway).
As far as this ride goes, if they were to put a movie in front of me and try to simulate a rollarcoaster, I would get sick. If they are just going to spin me around, then I may or may not get sick. It depends on how fast and furious the motion is.
so what if it uses windows. that is part of the thrill :0)
This isn't your Grandad's 'virtual rollercoaster'. Firstly, it doesn't have any Computer Graphics - it's basically a huge robot arm with a couple of seats attatched. It looks like it could move you in any direction it felt like, and fast too. This isn't just a small movie screen on a motion base...
They'll never sell unit #1.
Why?
They want $1.5mil for one of these.
A ride that can do 24 riders per hour. In a typical situation that would work out to about 250 rides per day.
For $1.5 million.
For comparison, a Huss Top Spin (http://www.hussrides.com/52ClassicTopSpin.htm), which costs roughly the same, takes 40 passengers per ride, and also does flips and what not. Top Spins can, in ideal circumstances, push through upwards of 800 people per hour, withn a figure of 400-500 pph being much more realistic. That means for the same money, they can have a ride that will run through 250 people in 30 minutes, instead of 10 hours. If you were in the position of buying a ride, which would YOU buy with your money?
Let's look at it from the economic angle. Both simulators and Top Spins command an average per-ride of ~$5/passenger. This puts the Robocoaster at $120 per hour. The Top Spin at $2000-$4000. Still having trouble making up your mind?
Remember that rides need operators (Firgure 2 for the Robocoaster, 4 for the Top Spin). Figure employee costs of $10/hr per employee. The Robocoaster is down to $100/hr now. The Top Spin to $1960-$3960. Now figure insurance and power, and maintaince. Those would knock off another $40 or so from the Robocoaster, bringing it down to $50-$60/hour profit., and the Top Spin to roughly $1500-$3000.
Let's figure our hypotetical park is open 12 hours a day, 180 days a year.
That is to say, 2160 hours per year.
Robocoaster: $1.5million. $60/per hour.
Time to profit: 25,000 hours, or almost 12 years.
Top Spin: $2 million. $1500 per hour (We'll take the low end)
Time to profit: 111 days.
Made up your mind yet?
TODO: Something witty here...
At least my four-year old thinks so. Wonder if I should start charging admission?
Positive Gs are easy utilizing centrifugal forces. Round and round to increase Gs, change the wrist angle of the robot arm to change the direction of the force relative to the person. Negative Gs are easy, just turn them 'head out'.
You won't get much in the way of sustained, reduced Gs, but you can short ones, 1 second, by flinging people downward with the arm.
They just need to make sure to put a vomit shield around the device to keep from flinging it into the spectators. I'll bet you could add an imax like projection sphere around it for a more integrated experience. Just make sure you can hose down the screens.
Doesn't save space? A typical roller-coaster will ride around 30 people at once. You can easily fit over 100 of these things in an area the size of some of the mega coasters.
That being said, the only thing that this has in common with a roller-coaster is that they put coaster in its name. For the category of rides that this really fits into you may be right, 2 people isn't very many and compared to those rides it may have a very good hourly capacity.
...with the pedestrian task of waving humans around at the end of its arm, it will simply extend the motion a little, and bash you repeatedly on the floor.
Amongst the features listed are "Microsoft Windows operating system" and "Internet connectivity". A giant industrial robot connected to two helpless humans running Windows connected to the 'net... this cannot be a good thing.
_sig_ is away
just add goggles, joystick, and network a couple in a room, charge $5 bucks a minute, and MANY kinds of games could be written for this thing!!! Revolution in arcade revenues!!!!
Theme park!? hahahahaha, how shortsighted!!!
US$0.02++
but most importantly, no real G-forces
Roller coasters have "G" forces only in one direction... down. Other forces felt on the ride, the ones that press you into your seat in loops and curves are centrifugal forces created by the curvature of the track... which is easily replicated by the motion of the robot swinging the seat in a circle. Variations on the angle of the chair will reproduce centrifugal force in any direction you want.
These forces are measured in "G's" relative to the gravity of the earth, but they are not gravitational forces.
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
call me paranoid but this post coming so fast on the heels of the post about the terminator 3 trailer makes me nervous. cyberdyne/ skynet is already building it's army.
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Looking at those 2fps videos (Videos in Flash? What's up with that?) I guess it could be pretty scary. Slamming you face down towards the floor, etc. And do you REALLY trust a robot for your life, that runs on Microsoft Windows? ;)
Have the 3 principles of robotics been imprinted in it's brain?
J.
The title says it all!
... about as risky as climbing the monkey bars on a play ground ...
... feel the rush!!!!
... bah!
... which do you prefer ... real sex or virtual sex?
How can you be a "risk taker" if there is no risk?
Oh, thats right, I might fall out of the metal box and fall 10 ft
Ohhhhh
Simulators
Also think of it this way
Just my $0.02
HallmarkOrnaments.Com
It'll probably be at the auto show.
daed si luap
There's a similar contraption at various malls in (at least) Michigan; the Briarwood Mall in Ann Arbor (and at least one other mall owned by Taubman) has something called the XScream Motion virtual roller coaster. Two riders, robotic arm, full 6-axis motion... but this is a closed cabin with projections screens where they show a virtual coaster track that you get to design! $5 a ride, and you can get a video of your ride from inside tha cabin for an additional $X.
I know they guys that make this thing have a web site (the URL is on their display at the mall), but Google was no help(!) in finding it.
Come to the University of Mars! Classes starting soon!
From a pure geek perspective, the Robocoaster is mesmerizing. Once I saw it (at IAAPA http://www.iaapa.org ) I just stood there and watched it for about 10 minutes with a huge grin on my face. The attraction is powerful - in multiple ways. Riders who opted for the highest setting would literally have their arms and legs flung about unless they held on tightly. While an avid coaster enthusiast, I have complete respect for this new type of attraction. The robocoaster is capable of generating 1.8Gs. I, of course, chose to ride it at the maximum setting. The ride was smooth, abrupt, unique and .. fun. While being flung from one position to the next, the speed was fast enough to occasionally blur my vision. I thoroughly enjoyed the ride, and would ride multiple times.
This is merely one component that can be integrated with additional media, lighting, sound (themeing, etc). My company is working on a VR center that will feature a Robocoaster with custom themeing/programming, etc. It's not meant to replace a coaster - rather it's something new and unique that can be used as an 'attractor' in certain locations.
ps. Even without the themeing, the ride rocked. It'll make most simulators seem lame in comparison.
ps#2. Someone posted inacurate pricing. Per unit cost is approximately $300k
vlorre
They use a code -- ask for The PaintShaker!
They'll know what you want.
Keep your packets off my GNU/Girlfriend!
The joy of combining axial motion from the perspective of the subject(victim) is that gravity is replaced by inertia - as with standard loops and turns. Creative calculations for a machine capable of moving quickly would turn the subjective "down" into a radial path and counter for the lateral centrifugal force by angling the rider slightly. Combine this with minimal descending motion and you can create the effect of dropping several hundred feet when you only have a few hundred to work with. Put a screen in front of that (or better, around) and you've got an awesome virtual coaster designable on the fly.
Any spoon would be too big.
It was damn tough - it needed to have active feedback, those motors can't be moved by hand, and you need external sensors 'cause the feedback from the current in the motors would only notice if you smacked into metal. And, of course, the programming needed to be perfect. One guy said, "we don't want someone getting their arm broken because somebody forgot to convert to unsigned."
It can probably be made safe, but I'd never ride in one. My trained reflexes won't let me get near a robot without a deadman switch in my hand.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
Hey, that looks like fun, but let me know when the automotive robot builds a car around me, like in Minority Report. Now that was cool.
According to this
I t costs 160,000UKP not $1.5M. Multiply your figures for the Robocoaster accordingly.a sh/eng lish/flexibilitaet.html
http://www.kuka.co.uk/NewFiles/pr_dd.html
According to this
http://www.kuka-roboter.de/robocoaster/nofl
they can accomidate 2000 rides per hour.
Of course then you're talking configurations of around 18 to 20 machines, I'd guess, so then you're talking closer to your $2M figure for the TopSpin.
Not ridiculing your opinions, just trying to correct a major error in your calculations.
put the what in the where?
The thing that brings me down the most about roller coasters is that you can see the track ahead of you. Instinctively, I brace myself against the upcoming turns/dips/whatever. There's nothing I can do about it, and I don't feel nearly as much of a rush because in my head I'm thinking "ok down real fast, and in two seconds I'm going to break right". Knowing what's going to happen kills the adrenaline for me.
However, I've seen the more recent rides (such as Disney's "Star Tours") that put you in a motion simulator. I like these much more because I have no idea where I'm going. Even if the story is hokey - it's far easier to ignore than knowing where I'm going. The only problem I've had with these is their lack of a range of motion - i.e. you can only go so far to the right, or so far down - basically shakes & bumps.
The Robocoaster fixes that because of it's essentially unlimited range of motion (since it can spin in circles - you could feel like you're dropping for a mile theoretically - just a bit of physics and some good programming). And put an LCD screen blocking your view and you can show whatever movie you want, be it rollercoaster or more like Universal Studio's "Back to the Future" ride.
The only thing is they need to make it sit more people. I don't think I've even seen a ride that can only sit two people - sharing the experience with your friends is most of the fun - so you can chide them later about the face they made off the big drop, or in the loop, or whatever. And hey, with that small of a footprint, they could put that in the middle of a mall - talk about massive foot traffic.
Sign me up!
Kurdt
I'm not anti-social. Just pro-technology.
"Microsoft Windows Operating System"
I'm not sure I want to ride a Windows rollercoaster.
http://drteknikal.blogspot.com/
Just think of all the parks you could open with Auto companies downsizing and closing plants... just take all the robots and BAM! You have "Autoworld"!
No, to me it sounds like you'd have Futureworld
Ralf
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
-Bertrand Russel
Maybe here?
They have an exhibit already. I wouldn't be surprised if they added this robocoaster to the bill...
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Oh, you mean like "Star Tours?" And the Robocop ride at the fair? The hat she is old.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
The last thing I need is to strap myself into the toolspace of some industrial robot. Last time I checked, carneys can't do inverse kinematics.
One future, two choices. Oppose them or let them destroy us.
We could try doing artificial gravity with diamagnetism if the Levitating frog experiment can be scaled up to work for Humans.
This same mechanism could also do star-trek style inertial damping...