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Microsoft's Reaction to OSS Adoption
inode_buddha writes "Eric S. Raymond has the eighth "Halloween" memo available here. It looks like Microsoft is really beginning to notice the national and corporate movement towards FS/OSS, and is reacting accordingly."
In a recent ZDNet article, ZDNet write/predicts that Linux will this year or perhaps next overtake Apple's OS to become the second most common desktop OS. Microsoft simply seems to be reponding to this increasing pressure, which as the ZDNet article point out, is coming as more government's switch over to Linux.
Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero.
...or would everyone have preferred a version without ESR's comments and opinion, so that we could form our own?
Feel that power? That's mah MOUSING FINGER
Looks to me like this has a lot to do with perception. PArt of MS' deal is that they have lots of mindshare. If the people realize that they HAVE options in terms of office and OS, then they certainly will at least explore those options. MS needs to keep people thinking that MS is the only way to get something done, so this memo is no surprise IMHO. Interesting though anyway.
That's what they get for living like assholes. Bill Gates has 7 kitchens and around 70 bathrooms! Shit, If I was a billionare I wouldn't even have 1 bathroom. I'd just be like "clean me up, come on 1,000 bucks to the first person to wipe my ass.
January 2, 2003
From: William Gates III
To: All Employees
The sky is falling!
Thank you,
- Bill
Trolling is a art,
The memo is mildly interesting, but ESR is growing more shrill and childish with each passing year. GOOD LORD a company is exploring how to compete with other products?? ALERT THE PRESS.
Sheesh, maybe Microsoft is good for some things, and OSS is good for other things. And to talk like Microsoft is going to "lose" with $40 billion dollars in the bank is ludicrous at best.
Fah, ESR is not as annoying as RMS (that is, of course, impossible), but he seems to be heading down the path.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
I find this 'fear' quite enlightening. It's about time MS felt *some* form of competition. They were getting a little too miserly and stifling innovation. (i.e. HOW long has Mozilla had tabbed browsing and ad-suppression? *When* might IE?)
It's also nice that quite a few companies, such as Lindows.com, are taking a bite out of MS's Law Creation/Politician Acquisition fund by suing them over patent abuse and/or common-name copyrighting.
Hopefully the "little people" in the market will have more of an effect on MS than the DoJ.
We need to more effectively respond to press reports regarding Governments and other major institutions considering OSS alternatives to our products.
Yeah, this is just what I want to do: Make a decision on IT issues and then issue a press release on it. All this will get me is Microsoft knocking on my door asking me for some of my time so that they can attempt to sell me on a product. Look, if I made my decision already to go with OS X, Linux, or whatever, I don't want somebody second guessing my decisions and trying to get me to change my mind.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
I don't get it.
Is Microsoft actually dumb enough to write memo after memo about something they now have admitted is their biggest threat and allow all of these memos to leak so the opposition can read them?
I was never sure about the first Halloween memo. The more that are "discovered" the more I wonder if these are truly from M$ (they must be released by our old friend, Mr. Source, or Reliable to those that know him well).
More and more it reminds me of P.D.Q. Bach -- the least of all the Bachs. There's no evidence he existed except from Peter Shickele, who keeps finding more and more works composed by this supposed composer.
While it is a little scary to have the proverbial 10,000th pounded gorilla coming after you, I think we should be happy that we're starting to make the fat cats at Micro$oft nervous.
In the past, Linux has been mostly ignored by Evil Bill and company. It made sense. Like *BSD these days, we had such a small install base that we didn't really pose much of a threat. But in the past year or two, Linux has really started to explode. It's popping up on servers, PDAs, hell, even cash registers. Suddenly, we're a force to be reckoned with.
What we need to do now is strike while the iron's hot and go for the kill. We've got them running scared, and I think one final push is all it will take to bury Windows forever, another tombstone on the side of the fabled Information Superhighway. I plan to do my part by open sourcing all of my non-sensitive projects and donating a token amount to the FSF each year. I encourage others to do more.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
the memo outlines perfectly healthy organizational function. it's exactly what MS should be doing. if those folks actually function that way, they've moved up a few notches in my esteem.
My question is, if Linux overtakes MacOS on the desktop, can Microsoft continue to justify to it's shareholders the reasons behind not making Office for Linux?
They can't say there isn't a market if they make Office for a *less* popular OS.
(It's not that I actually want nor need Office for Linux.. but it's something I'm curious about)
Who cares any more? Clearly, free software has now risen to the point where competing software makers take it into account in their planning. Eric Raymond periodically gets his hands on some entirely routine memo from Microsoft and spins it into some apocalyptic confrontation between Good and Evil. He needs to lay off the Lord of the Rings, I think.
Actually, the memo is funny in its concern. Basically, it deals with the fact that when some government considers switching a few servers to Linux, or some legislator proposes an open-source-only policy, Slashdot and the rest of the Linux media turn it into "INDIA SWITCHING TO LINUX!" AND "NORWAY SWITCHING TO LINUX!" It's not nearly as much deliberate spin as it is complete journalistic incompetence and the inability to read linked articles, but it's an effective enough fUD technique that Microsoft feels compelled to respond to it. ;-)
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
That in reference to a misspelling in the memo. That's some pretty juicy stuff they found there.
Sex - Find It
Miscrosoft is just behaving like any other company would when threatened by competition, be it OSS or other...
... running a normal business. Microsoft is a business that is looking to make money. Goverments and Corporations moving to Linux and Star Office means less money for them. They are trying circumvent that. Can you blame them?
This is an unusual Halloween memorandum in that it's not particularly redolent of evil.
Was this newsworthy? Microsoft definitely does not have a monopoly on servers. Also they are beginning to lose their grasp of a monopoly on the desktop. They realize this, why doesn't everyone else.
"It takes many nails to build a crib, but one screw to fill it."
Now look at the last couple of documents. They are totally different beasts of virtually no importance or interest; ESR simply calls them Halloween documents in order that they will garner interest on the back of the original docs. Look at the seventh one - it is the result of a market research project. Why is this grouped under the same umbrella as MS talking about unethical monopolistic practices?
Eric: When you get some interesting, shocking documents leaked from Microsoft, please feel free to publicise your Halloween documents. If all you get is this boring tripe, feel free to publish it, but just call it "leaked MS email" or something.
In short, I agree with the parent - get a fucking life ESR.
I don't really see anything that sinister here. It looks like a typical memo defining a procedure for responding with "one voice" to a business challenge that Microsoft faces. Frankly, I'd be surprised if they weren't having these kind of discussions.
Some of the comments seem unecessarily shrill to me. Example:
Name the key contacts within the gov't
{Translation: Who can we suborn?}
Providing a list of people to contact does not imply suborning (from m-w.com "to induce secretly to do an unlawful thing") to me. How is it unlawful to contact a customer who might be going to a competitor and trying to convince them to reconsider?
Don't get me wrong - I'm excited to see governments looking at Linux and Open Source as an alternative. I just don't think it serves anybody's best interest to take a pretty routine memo and try to turn it into the Pentagon Papers.
** The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not reflect those of my employers - past, present, or future**
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Deliver, at minimum, guidance and messaging regarding any new instance within the same business day of your mail being received, including WW communication to prepare all subs
Is it just me, or does this paragraph sound like something from War Games movie? Subs - submarines. Guidance and messaging. WW - World War.
Holly shit! Is Microsoft preparing for a real war on everyone that go with OSS? I think I'll be preparing that bunker of mine that I have on the backyard just for such an occasion before they call an airstrike!
You can't handle the truth.
This sound's like Micro$oft's attempt to keep the news of OSS acceptance into the world at bay, and if not then to debunk it's worth in the eyes of the news savy readers. Joe User doesn't give a rat's @ss about this, but one day he will finally see something different of the shelves and the advertisement flyer's of CompUSA and Best Buy that wasn't there before. The readers of /. already know the benefits of OSS and Linux, but Joe User will need to be kicked and dragged to see the light, and it will burn.
Everyone knows that OSS will be more wide accepted when the user will not have to decrypt configuration files. It might, and I repeat, MIGHT be better to go to an XML based configuration file so they could also be editable through a, dare I say it, GUI? Don't flame me, but most people, including I prefer to use GUIs since it's almost idiot proof so I don't miss-type that comma or underscore. We also know how powerful the command line is when we know what we want. Again, Joe User doesn't want to see a command line. I don't much about cars, but I can drive my truck all day long, refill with gas and continue of my way. That's the way Joe User wants it, and should be. I prefer Linux because it has many many more knobs for me to tweak to my liking.
Anywho, let me get back to the path about MS trying to subvert the truth about OSS. OSS will be more widely accpetable when Joe Admin User can configure his machines easier with a GUI instead of configuration files and look-n-feel feels more "professional" and maybe more high-tech looking instead of the Fisher Price look-n-feel. Yes, eye candy does go a long way.
Now... I am ready for your bashing.
No company would normally allow EIGHT such memos to be leaked out. There are 2 options: Either these memos are not from Microsoft, which sounds weird, because I bet they would have a press release concerning the "fake memos". This leaves us the 2nd option: They are being leaked on purpose. This all looks like some sort of clever manipulation, but I am not that interested in the subject to start doing deep analysis of all the memos trying to find specific clues.
Anyone who is more competent than I am can probably do it.
Not to mention that their security 'sucks dead maggots through a straw.' Having run out of actual things to call Microsoft upon, it's nice to see the bulwarks of OSS are reduced to such as this.
Maybe one of these days I'll try out some dead-equine-flagellation myself; it seems to be awful fun. Happens so much around here, I MUST be missing out on something....
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"Linux has no user-level applications to speak of."
That slashdotters find the above statement "insightful."
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
After all, it would only be War version 1.0. :-D
Though it would be funny seeing a bunch of subs spelling out '0wn3d' after they opened the Word document containing their battle orders.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Questions about annotation and authenticity are covered in the faq here.
Don't know how valid the answers are, but there's something to look at...
Since this is Microsoft we are talking about, it would go more like:
Doesn't apply to OOS very well, though - which probably is scaring the sh*t out of them. How do you "fight" what you cannot buy?
Eric S. Raymond was arrested today by the FBI for being in posession of confidential documents from Microsoft corporation. Microsoft has charged that posession is tantimount to industrial espionage and violates the DMCA.
"I find the whole matter deeply disturbing and troubling that this confidential document ended up in the hands of this individual. Obviously, intellectual and ownership rights have no meaning to the 'Linux' crowd and it just goes to show you their true mettle", said Microsoft spokesperson Nyles Forebush in an exclusive interview to Slashdot's Cowboy Neil.
Mr. Raymond is being held without bail at the federal penetentiary in Milan, Michigan.
GOOD LORD a company is exploring how to compete with other products??
M$ doesn't compete with other products, it eliminates them. When it can't eliminate the competition (in the case of linux), it FUDs or sues them to death. I strictly believe to compete with a product is to make a better product. That's just my $0.02
I don't see how his inline comments add anything to the memo that we wouldn't have gotten from it if he hasn't simply quoted it sans-editorial. In fact, his comments look less like clarification and commentary than simple whining. He should read "Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source advocacy" some time. ;-)
I also am surprised that he acts almost insulted by the memo. What did he expect, Microsoft would support OSS? The phrase "free software" gets the same reaction from Microsoft as the phrase "free cars" would get from Ford. Don't fault the rattlesnake for biting.
It isn't a particulary exciting memo and doesn't say much - ESR says so himself. So perhaps he just can't be bothered writing insightful comments all the way through (after all there is only so much you can say). He has to write something (see comments from the start, or read his faq) and so just writes light banter. He didn't say anything false, or anything with too strong a bias, just made some poor jokes - it's what I probably would have done.
from a pure valuation standpoint, the returns that MS share holders recieve come from the monopoly tag team in both upstream and downstream markets (the OS and the application). to weaken that link would dramatically change the dynamics of the free cash flow forcasts going forward.
that is to say nothing of the signalling effect that it would have in the market. begining to sell office for linux be taken as a very pessimistic signal about MS management's view of their relative strenth.
the stock would take a beating and the lawsuits would fly. at this point i'm pretty sure it would do nothing if not make a train wreck of the equity value.
This memo and ESR's idiot commentary have convinced me once and for all that, when it comes to GNU, Linux, and Open Source, neither MS nor ESR matter anymore if they ever did.
MS makes their software and lost of people use it. If they make Office for Linux, lots of people will use that until OpenOffice shows itself to be much better. Meanwhile, those who run Linux will continue to run Linux and (like me) will switch their parents, friends, and children over to Linux so that we don't have to do tech support for family Windows machines.
ESR will continue to rant and rave like a frothing maniac until people stop listening. Reminds me of software that falls out of use because it is a remnant of the past and hasn't kept pace with how things are today. ESR will be replaced by someone else who won't sound like a high school freshman.
Until then, I'll just keep learning Linux.
Yeah, I'm as old as my UID would suggest.
Ah, but therein lies the rub; he DOESN'T need to 'write something;' he can comment where comments are called for, and leave the rest to be. Hell, he could admit that they're not being dirty and deceptive anymore, they're just being good little capatailists and reacting to threats, the way, well gosh, the OSS community does, too.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Her boss will find it much better that she can't use company time to play "Hoyle Card Games", organise her pictures and manage her finances.
On the other hand, not having to pay for the next Windows and the next Office on your wife's workstation may really call her boss attention.
Nobody is talking about personal machines. Those will follow in some years, with the growing demand by corporate users to have exactly the same tools at home.
Yes, it is true, Microsoft actually did write these memos.
They were written by a group of individuals in the DTPOSF department (Distract Those Pesky Open Source Flunkies) and leaked to Slashdot for the purpose of slowing down progress.
By getting all of us to stop what we're doing, comment on how stupid they are and how much they phear us, they have accomplished exactly what they were organized to do - distract us.
So quit your gawking and get back to coding, we have an empire to destroy...
---
Dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with Windows(tm).
2: Nah, I refer to Microsoft bashing.
3: I know, it's a real drag. I just got finished updating/altering my sig and what not.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
perhaps I'm mistaken, but isn't P.D.Q. Bach just different people doing slightly modified Bach, all under the label of 'P.D.Q. Bach '?
I am probably wrong, because I have only heard people talking about it, and heven't listen, but that sure was the impression they gave me.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
This makes me wonder how a company and pin point the leakage.
If the number of recipients of a message of this type is not too large, the sender could always have say a trusted secretary reword slightly some of the sentences so that each recipient receives a different memo with the same content. Then when the leak gets out, you just match it up to the person.
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
I'd ensure a lot of false memos came out to confuse people. Memos that'd say exactly what people expected.
.
;)
Then I'd plan my REAL strategy . .
Just a thought
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
Funny, how internal microsoft strategy letters, with their abbreviations and paramilitary jargon and posturing, resemble internal Scientology memos.
http://www.xenu.net/
If MS wants to "win" this "war", all they have to do is port their apps to Linux. MS Office, Exchange, Outlook, .NET, etc.
If they do that, they win. People like their apps, or at the very least they're used to them. If they port, one of two things will happen:
1. Everyone will migrate to Linux, but run MS apps (unlikely, but MS just becomes an app farm instead of an OS farm. Big change, but MS gets to live on.)
2. People say, "Hey, I can run MS apps on Linux, and it's cheaper! But wait, they're probably more tightly integrated into their own OS. And they have better support. Hmm, it's probably worth it just to buy the whole package. Less work, too."
I mean, MS still will always have the Joe Schmowe desktop users as long as they control OEMs and maintain their humongous inertia. (Remember, inertia is what keeps alive the x86 monster.) So their worry is for big institutions defecting. If the institution has a very high priority on saving money (e.g., a government), they're going to go to Linux or similar anyway, so MS should just try to keep what slice of the pie it can by porting its popular apps, and actually making some use of its inertia. But if the institution wants a whole pre-packaged, integrated license deal, they're going to go MS all the way because no one else comes close to the app/OS integration they do. (This is similar to what Sun does, selling their hardware and Solaris all at once. And they don't have MS Office!) Heck, MS apps and OS are so integrated, even MS can't pick them apart! They don't know their dll/exe dependencies any better than we do!
Further, MS will get good publicity because they can no longer be so easily derided as anti-competitive. Who cares if the source isn't open? The media and Joe User can't pick up on subtleties like that, and when OSS zealots start crying foul, Joe User will just think they have a stick up their ass, ruining their public image. Joe User doesn't care about source. Joe User will never read a line of source or compile a single app in his life. Joe User gets his software in a BOX. At COMPUSA!
If MS ports its apps to Linux, MS wins, plain and simple. If they just get over this "Not Invented Here" stupidity, they are unstoppable. If they don't, they'll die the death of a thousand pinpricks.
(Hey, I just thought of something! Maybe MS should roll their own Linux distro, too!)
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
This Ghandi quote seems like a prudent way to start the article. many self confessed geeks see the OSS cause as a revolution of comparable importance with revolutions of a more conventional political nature. Micro$oft can be seen as the established power structure which has grown greedy and corrupt, and OSS is the 'will of the people', wishing to wrestle it'self free from tyrany.
It is easy to get caught up in the spirit of jihad, but if the 'war' against Micro$oft's monopoly is to succeed then such an endulgance is counter-productive. M$ is just another corporation going about it's business. I expect that many of it's employees truly believe that they are making the world a better place. The fact that many people disagree with M$ can be countered with the standard corporate arguments: 'we generate wealth for all', 'we drive innovation', and 'you are all un-American commies and terrorists'.
It appears to me that the struggle between OSS and proprietary software is just one of the front lines in the struggle between corporate consumerism and everything else. When an entity as large and powerful as M$ begins to take the threat seriously one can expect things to heat up. Already we see M$ and others bending the machinery of states to their will, such things are done in the name of freedom, security and prosperity. It is tempting to ask: whose freedom, security and prosperity?
I guess this is turning in to a bit of a rant, so I'll wind it up now. As the article states we have moved into the 3rd stage (see above quote) of the struggle. Don't be tempted into thinking that OSS is therefore halfway to winning. I think we can expect future Skylarovs to be imprisoned, more DMCAs and some laughably draconian laws enacted in the name of freedom on the behalf of the corporate opressors. This is as much a struggle of ideologies as of competing technologies or development models, and one the general public is totally unaware of. I think OSS will win the day, but it will take decades and participants on both sides will suffer.
Disclaimer: I am not a communist, terrorist or anti-capitalist. Any opinions expressed here are just that: opinions. If you don't like it then reply or mod me down
I think Microsoft leaks these things so that OSS community members can comment on /. and the like and tell them the real story behind their farcical emails' subjects. For example, his comment that OpenOffice is the real threat, etc.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
That's about as fair and balanced an article as I've ever seen from the open source camp, so thanks for posting...
they've left it too late. Since they did not make Office available for Linux others have moved in and filled the gap already.
Why on earth would I install MS Office on Linux when I've already replaced it, even on my Windows partition?
Keep up, or drop out. MS dropped the ball on this one because they thought no one could catch up, let alone put *them* in the catch up position.
They were wrong.
KFG
er, "innovating."
Dude, have you ever worked for a large company?
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
"Oh! Oh! Br'er Bear! Don't! Don't throw me in that briar patch!"
Gee, it's convenient for a company facing a court decision on anti-trust grounds, and a decision on whether or not to be independently pursued at a state level, to have this big, scary, Linux monster under their bed. Isn't it?
-- Terry
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Lets not forget that those steps aren't a foregone conclusion. Sometimes they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you and then they stomp you into the ground mericlessly. Example? Netscape.
This is the eighth leaked letter concerning reactions to OSS! If MS is not using these letters to carefully manuever the public, they have all got to be totally stupid. For us to believe that they aren't would make us even more so.
Here is the introduction:
-----
Everybody remember the Gandhi quote?
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Gentlemen and ladies, this newest leaked memo from Microsoft confirms that we are advancing through GandhiCon Three. As usual, highlights are in red and comments are in {green, also bracketed for the color-blind}. Also as usual, the memo is otherwise unedited and exactly as I received it, with one exception: in the text version I was sent, the last bullet item was inexplicably positioned after the sender sig "Orlando".
Some analysis follows the memo.
-----
Gandhi's words *are* wise, but the problem it that we (the OSS community) are the ones who are laughing. We're so secure in the fact that OSS can't be touched in the traditional method that we're just sitting back and taking every inch of their retreat as a victory. But it's a tactical retreat! Clearly MS is doing something tricky with palladium, and the gods know what else. I'd be not so quick to dismiss the "inexplicably positioned" bullet item, nor would I say the "then we win" step is so near.
I don't mean to sound paranoid or anything, but it's bloody foolish to be overconfident.
Here in Brazil, near 95% of personal computers are sold by the called "integrators", they assemble the parts.
So the Windows licence is a sort of an "optional" part. I worked in some of then and I see that is very, very optional, like an joystick, just a little fracion opt for it "legalized", the other 90% have just it "installed" and with Microsoft Office.
If they are licensed, Win & Office, they will cost near the same as the whole computer.
I Don't know exactlly how is in others countries, but i think in USA near 100% of computers are from big companies like Dell and HP where Windows is not an "optional", so, the expansion of Linux will be very slowly there.
have any of these things really been creditible after the first one? ESR is once again leading everyone around in circles. ESR wants to be king of a new world order, but his problem is that there is no new world order. So he is trying to create a us versus them world, so we will all rally behind him.
====
Crudely Drawn Games
Already done in many places. However, in general those schemes are very generic and easily avoided if you receive the document from more than one source. I've played this game before, and except in releases that are too general to be useful (like releasing identically to different groups, to at least narrow it down to a particular group), or in exceptionally small distribution groups (fewer than six, IMHO), exposure of contacts can be avoided by having more than one contact to forward you the documents. As gigantic as the Redmond campus and MS around the world is, people will feel pretty safe in their anonymity.
Security like this is a bit like nailing posters of a barbed-wire fence to 2x4's around one's property. Yeah, you might think it makes things more secure, but it actually just baffles people and makes the owner look stupid...
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
Here are some Linux CAD programs:
_ Pr ograms/
.).
http://www.linuxcad.com/
http://www.qcad.org/index.php3
http://www.caddepot.com/dcd/CAD_Demos/Linux/CAD
Here is a link to a list of links:
http://www.tech-edv.co.at/lunix/CADlinks.html
Looks like Linux DOES do CAD. But I guess it is up to you to determine if it does it well enough.
I think Adobe works with Macs, so if the Linux share surpasses Macs, then Adobe will start creating stuff for Linux desktops, as well (at least, logic would dictate . .
Cheers.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
This Eric Raymond guy isn't very smart! By being very open about what he thinks about Microsoft's strategy, he's giving Microsoft the insight to actually defeat OSS! I call for opposition of full disclosure! Oh wait... this isn't an OS security discussion is it? Sorry folks. Wrong troll. ;P
Actually, this is a very entertaining read like all the other analysis of the Halloween docs.
Un-news
A lot of the XMas PC stock in my local computer shop all had OpenOffice pre-installed (well startoffice).
You get a lot more bang for you buck with startoffice(over Works or Office), especially if you a home user.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Gates: "Good memo, I think this addresses our concerns."
Ballmer: "Should I make sure this memo leaks as well?"
Gates: "Yes, do it. We could use the free international exposure with our message, besides the nasty responses help insure nobody will ever take the Linux community seriously."
No they aren't this stuff is BS and only the Linux community listens to it. Try to use articles like this to lure your boss to consider Linux and you will only lose credibility. Best way to lure people is with facts pro and con.
When I design new systems for a department I gain their trust by not only selling the pro's of my design, but being able to tell them more details about the con's than they know. Then I can explain why they are non-issues. It shows them understanding of all aspects and takes the air out of their arguments. Linux has to be presented the same way, not with emails of questionable credibility. Make your best arguemnt to use Linux on facts pro and cons and be done. If you don't convince them this time, fine at least they will listen you again in the future instead of writing you off and a scam artist.
distro ?? Certified to run with Win2K ? Given the nature of the GPL, could they not offer the kernel and source, with additional "certified" binaries downloaded from M$, or do they have to give out the source for everything ?
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I live in Chile, which is very close to Brazil, and the situation is almost the same down here. The biggest computer sales are from integrators, leaving the known brands to a very few customers.
Most of them (if not all) buys the computers with everything installed ('yeah, I can give you that software, and this other one as well') but without the licences, just a Windows XP licence costs as much as a complete low end Duron system (which is what most non-gamer people buys). This situation barely changes into the companies, where they are somewhat forced to get their software licenced when they get a notification from the ADS (think of it as the local BSA) saying they'll be inspected.
So, the thing is slowly beggining to change. I don't sell hardware, but I do give Linux consulting services to companies. I've already migrated a bunch of M$ servers on small networks to the Linux platform, mostly because server licences are far more expensives than client ones (and this way you also eliminate the CAL licences costs), and also because most companies don't feel that Linux is quite there yet to replace Windows on the desktop, leave alone the lack of the specific applications they work with.
Articulos para gente geek: Poleras, linux, libros y mas
Microsoft is doing their level best to make sure that all of these folks buy an XBox
Actually, Microsoft is doing their level worst and driving half the potential Xbox buyers away from the Xbox and toward the Sony PlayStation 2 or the Nintendo GameCube. The PS2 has a much larger selection overall, and it plays PS1 games and DVD movies out of the box. The GameCube has more E-rated games and a larger percentage of well-designed exclusive games (Smash Bros., Metroid Prime, Animal Crossing, etc. vs. Halo), and it plays Game Boy and GBA games with an attachment coming in May. In addition, the PS2 and the GameCube allow dial-up users to access the online games, whereas Xbox requires broadband service that isn't even available to probably half the USA population. (Dial-up, ISDN, and satellite don't work with Xbox Live. You need Internet access through cable or DSL, and many local cable monopolies and local phone monopolies have been slow to set up such access before, say, 2007.)
Will I retire or break 10K?
I just want to see all the memos that all the Microsoft execs had to send to one another to let each other know about this memo being discussed on /.
What do you mean? Am I claiming that Linus Torvalds (or whoever you imagine to direct "the linux community", the Linux analog of Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer) directs his employees to participate in public forums to post derogatory comments about MSFT products at his expense? No, I'm not claiming that.
You missed the point of my observation that a corporate entity (MSFT) conducts organized campaigns of misleading the public by hiding the origin of the "public opinion poll" or "grass roots campaign" or "think tank whitepaper".
Sure, the linux community does all of the things that MSFT does - but on an individual-by-individual basis. I've posted pro-linux articles in public forums. I've written anti-MSFT whitepapers. But I've done it by myself, on my own time, I wasn't paid for it, I haven't claimed to be someone else, I didn't copy any PR firm's talking points, and I haven't claimed any kind of authority based on lack of bias, as the Gartner and Alexis de Toqueville whitepapers claim.
That's the real point of my laundry list of shilling and astroturfing. MSFT, directed by upper management, puts out all kind of pro-MSFT material, whose origins are deliberately obscured. By pretending to come from Joe Sixpack or from think tanks, MSFT progaganda gains a mantle of legitimacy that it wouldn't possess if it openly acknowledged its origins.
Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Maybe you've just picked a backward bank.
In some towns such as Terre Haute, Indiana, "pick" and "bank" contradict one another because only one bank has branches and ATMs within reasonable driving distance. And it works with recent IE for Windows and with Netscape 4.7x and 4.8x, but not with any Gecko based browser . I have reported the issue to Mozilla Tech Evangelism.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Facts:
Linux keeps getting better.
Windows keeps getting better. (Technically, not counting the EULAs)
Is the gap closing? I don't think so. There's still way more software and systems being created for Windows.
But Linux is doing something else, for users that don't need any exotic software. Do you need a server? Do you need a simple browsing/e-mail/basic office pack desktop? You got it. Maybe next year I can add a couple more things to that list. Maybe a few more are good enough now already and I don't know about it or agree.
In Windows, you choose between different software with different cost. In Linux, most of the tools people use are free, and there isn't many commercial counterparts. That means that those that *do* use Linux use it because it *already* does what the users want it to do, for free.
That's what spooks Microsoft. It's not that people switch. It's that they don't really have anything to offer to get them back should they decide Linux is "good enough" as it is. Any business would. And should.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
People have overlooked one major trend and that's the rise of web native ASP's. Our company is one of hundreds out there creating vertical industry specific applications. Things like accounting, supply chain management, crm and sales force automation. Everything is available through a browser. You're not aware of it because the great majority of companies like ours may be well known in their industries but not on any national radar screen. What happens in five years time when companies realize that the only thing they use Windows for is email and MS Office? Suddenly Linux with evolution and Open Office becomes a viable alternative. If the business applications are all accessed through the browser the games over for Windows. People that's the main reason Microsoft bought Great Plains. They want all these vertical providers working on a Microsoft framework. Man Holmes
Please note: XML is NOT the holy grail.
/etc/hosts file by hand if it's in an XML style, it's much easier in the current style. Moreover writing a GUI for editing non-XML config files is no big difficulty. Configuration files should be editable by hand (easily) and possibly by a GUI.
It *can* be an excellent solution for many problems but it always depends on what and how you do it.
Misunderstanding (1): XML is human readable
Yes, it is. (unless it is not compressed with a proprietary protocol which is not so unlikely). But only because you can read it this does not mean you can actually *understand* it. The so called scheme, that makes you understand an XML document can be proprietary and not open. There is no reason to believe that Microsoft XML-Documents will have public available schemes.
Misunderstanding (2): XML is suitable for everything (e.g. configuration files).
Simply wrong. It's no fun at all to e.g. edit the
To me XML has it's pros but also it's cons.
Microsoft wants us to believe that they converted from "Saulus to Paulus" by using a standardized language that is human readable. But we will all soon recognize that they will still use their proprietary formats to lock everyone out.
"ESR wants to be king of a new world order, but his problem is that there is no new world order."
I would say that there is definitely a new world order, but it doesn't need a king.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
er the point was that he does need the comments there. If he took out everything that somebody might find offensive/rude/arrogant/etc there probably wouldn't be enough comments left.
And he did say that this document doesn't show anything 'evil' etc, if you read it.
Sure they can hold back mass migration to linux but what does it bother us? If we keep this pace up in development of Linux Microsoft will be lagging behind real soon. The snowball is rolling and i dont think Microsoft has the capability to stop it anymore. Lets leave Microsoft behind and let them fight a ghost. Without something to hit they are lost. They have shown us again and again with their gorilla practices that they cant compete on engineering or quality with anyone.
Let them fight nothing but air and windmills!
HTTP/1.1 400
Like I said to someone above, thanks for the insight. I hear about these things and I've had 2 PHBs (pointy haired bosses), but in both cases they were the company owner and there were never more than 2 fulltime employees in the company (other than the PHB/owner).
While I've heard jokes and stories, I guess I always thought they were just too stupid to be true. I'm beginning to change my mind.
At least thats my guess. It's a common acronym used at other companies. It's a sales department, not a law department.
post their words without the "translations" and they'll hang themselves
No, post the copyrighted words of Microsoft without criticism or comment and the Feds hang YOU!
Will I retire or break 10K?
> ...just change the color to transparent.
Better yet, just add display:none; so it won't bork the formatting.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
You can use this to kill the display of all ESR comments on any of the Halloween pages.
(WTF do you think CSS is for anyway? It's to enable users to do stuff just like this.)
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Nice try, but I'm going to continue to call you Daniel Bernstein.
Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
I agree that the commentary is pretty weak. Personally I would have appreciated less cheerleading and more rational analysis.
I do, however, disagree with your analysis about what ESR is trying to communicate. In the finishing comments he does say that this memo is not especially evil or anything, it just happens to give insight into which anti-OSS strategies we will be seeing next. Especially the sentence "the sort of thing that gets churned out daily by clueless corporate droids everywhere" says essentially the same thing that you seem to be saying - every company is saying stuff like this all the time, they haven't done anything strange or wrong. Informative document neverthless.
Reflexively dismissing something (or reading it as MS-bashing) just because it comes from an open source advocate is just as silly as saying that all MS software is crap.
Opinions stated are mine and do not reflect those of the Illuminati
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Look, I never said that because a post was pro-microsoft, that it was therefore the work of Redmond. Seriously, before going on about logic, please carefully read what I've actually written. What I said is that there must be MS employees paid to be on this board to do some "direct" marketing, which certainly doesn't include praising Linux. Why do I think this is not only plausible, but highgly probable? Because it makes sense to do it, from MS's point of view, because it's relatively cheap and not very risky, and because they have a history of doing this (and worse).
:-)
However, you shouldn't assume that by this I mean it's impossible to say something good about Windows or Microsoft without being on Bill Gates' payroll. That's ridiculous. Even I have said good things about Win2k, which I find to be an adequate OS, and a big improvement on previous offerings. I have an Xbox and I love it (I'll love it even more when I can run Linux on it without a modchip...). I think MS Office is still the best office suite (I use it with Crossover Office). The Microsoft Design Gallery Live is the best place on the net to find clip art. Yet I'm very critical of other aspects of MS, and I really hope that Linux will continue to gain marketshare, because I honestly believe that OSes should not belong to anyone in particular. And, it's Linux is, IMO, a fundamentally better operating system.
Just so you know: if there's anything I'm really good about, it's looking at something skeptically and thinking about it. I'm a real libra, very much into the whole doubting and pondering thing. Too much, actually, sometimes I need to prop myself into action, or I get kind of absent-minded and could place myself in physical danger.
Reminder: find a new sig
For those who wish to read only the original content, you can use CSS to disable the comments by putting the following rule in your browser's user style sheet:
.comment { display: none; }
In Mozilla, this means adding the above line to $HOME/.mozilla/profile name/random salt/chrome/userContent.css and restarting your browser. The same can also be achieved in Opera.
Admittedly it's a little much to make these changes for just one Web page, but as more Web pages start to use CSS, this sort of thing will hopefully apply to more than just one or two pages. Alternatively, you could contact ESR and suggest he provide an alternate stylesheet so you can easily toggle comment display.