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US Military Uses Spam, Internet Explorer
chundo writes "CNN reports that the United States government has been secretly encouraging the defection of senior Iraqi officials via email. Iraq is responding by shutting down some of their internet gateways to prevent these emails from getting through, forcing the US to find alternate means to deliver the message. Maybe they should have enlisted this guy - emails from him keep showing up in my inbox no matter what I do." This story about the growing military network bandwidth crunch shows the U.S. military trying hard to get every soldier online, all the time.
How does this related to Internet Explorer ?
Not 72 virgins I hope.
RE: Pictures of Alah! Download now!
RE: Make money selling burkas from your home.
RE: Gain weight now!
To: saddam@iraq.com
Subj: Hot Iraqi Women in your Email!
You have credit problms? Is you penis to small? Well you hav win $1,000,00 million dollars! Click here to claim you prize mony and send a nuke your way.
I'm the Devil the Windows users warned you about.
So with all the spam, now the Iraqui leaders get a chance to help all those Nigerians get money out of the country. I bet they also have 12 inch penises, have overcome hairloss, and have lost 10 pounds just this past week. What are we trying to do...create a race of wealthy, well hung, rich guys to fight against?
want to add 3-5 cm to your penis length? defect now to obtain the super male enhancing pills
I have inherited 5milion dollars and we can split it, all is needed is the transfer fee and for you to defect... profit!
You should be watching the United States (Symbol USA). Now is a HOT TIME to defect. Don't let this oportunity pass you by, defect today!
"Entropy is the bad-guy, and he is everywhere"
I don't know about your email servers, but don't you go under the assumption that your email is being read by your ISP, or your boss?
How does the US expect their defectors to reply to the offers? They can't very well send them by email for fear of being nabbed. Maybe they tell them to draw a big 'V' in the ground so the spy satellites can see that they want to vacate Iraq?
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Mr. IRAQI PERSON,
You MAY be SURPRISED to receive this, but THE OFFICE GIRL said that you were a most TRUSTWORTHY PERSON. I beg you Forgive me for contacting you without prior contacting your office, but I am looking for a WORTHY business PARTNER to donate the sum of USD 124.5 million dollars. I am the son of the FORMER president of the U.S.A GEORGE BUSH who initiated a MILITARY CAMPAIGN in 1991. During this campaign, we discovered HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of DOLLARS stolen from THE REBELS. OUR economy is IN TROUBLE and we MUST get this MONEY overseas before the people DISCOVER it. We will gladly be willing to pay you the SUM of 26 MILLION DOLLARS for ASSISTING US. I pray to GOD that you will HELP US get this MONEY out of the country. ALL we need FROM you is your PASSPORT and SIGNATURE which you can fax to me or my colleauges to initiate the transfer of the MILLIONS of dollars. I remain your most humble SERVANT, and PRAY that you will be OUR SAVIOR.
SINCERELY,
MR. PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH
There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
Iraq has no diplomatic relations with Nigeria.
"shows the U.S. military trying hard to get every soldier online, all the time."
Do they really need to be playing CounterStrike in the gulf *war*?
Try sharing 256K over an encrypted up and down link through microwave radios to satellite throughout your 100+ user network. Don't forget the Marine Corps only uses NT 4.0 servers and Internet Explorer. Then watch some idiots who claim they NEED their LAN drops install AIM and Kazaa and forward a money making scheme from "Bill Gates" to your whole network and kick your Exchange server's ass in the process.
Then fantasize about your Linux boxes at home as you try to salvage some idiot officer's "important files" from his Outlook virus infested brand new Dell laptop that he didn't deserve and no one loaded Norton on since he took it home every night and "was too busy" to let some enlisted IT guy fix w/ our standard program load.
Can you tell I'm not looking forward to deploying?
This guy is way out there
Is this the medium american thought? In the rest of world all people think the same about George Hitler Bush... He is a bit crazy, no? He want's drop tons of bombs in any country that it call anti-american... In the rest of planet we think that he want to reactivate american economics and weappon industry and in same time to reelect.... Please, where is the good sense?
rather near the border of cuba, america has radio brodcasts of pro-america (capitalism, democracy, etc) and anti-castro (cuba, communist, socialist, etc) propoganda including all sorts of subversive songs and talk, all illegal to broadcast in cuba. the stations are rather popular, too.
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
What I think really happened was a 12 year old kid hacked the Pentagon computers again and wanted to use all that technology to make some money, BUT at the same time, be patriotic. So what'd he do? Spam. He's getting 5 cents a click on the "Defect to USA" and "Fuck Saddam" pages AND he's dicking with Iraq.
(FwooshSpinSpinSpinGargle) -- the sound of my karma as I click the Submit button)
Sig & Below
Yuck Fou
Let's hope they don't leave their laptops logged in at starbucks so some kid could play with it.
--
"we live in a post-ideological world..." - Billy Bragg.
I get spam from the military all the time. Ever since they got a list of names in high school I receive emails and snail mail letters encouraging me to "Join the ROTC", "Get Money for College", etc. Now that I'm graduating I get "Become an Officer in the US Military" letters. I guess if marketing is aggressive enough they won't have to bring back the draft.
sig
And you must be God, judging the rest of us.
Dirty little fuck.
Yes, this is how we Americans think. Since we all think exactly the same.
You may now continue your "Ha ha, look we're better than the US" masturbation.
"This story about the growing military network bandwidth crunch..."
So slashdoting their servers earlier just might not have been such a good idea...
So they expect Iraqis to take emails seriously of which they cannot verify the source to take action that could cost the lives of themselves and their families. To my understanding, paranoia is very common in Iraq and it's assumed that everybody spies on everybody. Upon receipt of such an email, the likely assumption would be that it came from the government in an attempt to weed out potential defectors.
It's a nice idea, but it again shows a poor understanding of the local situation by the West and most likely little consideration for the lives of exactly those insider people willing to oppose the regime.
Moz.
see a Text Widget
Someday, maybe not too far in the future...I imagine we might read a story about an Airforce crew shot down because of spam. They'll be patrolling some no-fly-zone in some hot spot somewhere as part of a U.N. peace keeping mission. A bad guy will lock on radar and they'll want to shoot but need to get clearance from command. But, the clearance will come too late because the Airforce guys will be busy deleting spam in their inbox while looking for the message from command...
Nah...
what the hell else will keep out there in trenches? ask any ww2 vet, and he'll tell ya. spam was a major part of the lend/lease program, so you brits should know about that too.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
But, if the US military is sending public key encryption to Iraqis, doesn't that violate the US Dept of Commerce's commercial encryption export laws?
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
should have been written as "Is this mainstream America's feelings on the subject?" Which I would have to reply as Yes, with the recent Congressional elections and the Republican victories as my chief piece of evidence.
Err ... no. Bush I. chose to retreat from Iraq to have a justification for U.S. troops to remain stationed all over the Middle East. They went there during the Gulf war and never left. As for the press, it was heavily (and voluntarily) censored during that time, virtually all the footage was Army-approved, and in fact provided by the Army.
Anyway, it was expected that Saddam would comply with U.S. interests after his defeat, without having to occupy Iraq and thus remove the need for U.S. 'protection' in the area. After this had proven wrong, the sanctions were put in place. Saddam remained defiant, and that's why the U.S. is heading there again.
Did you know you can fertilize your lawn with used motor oil?
So if there are Axes of Evil then where is the Origin?
We hit a carpool of hundreds of escaping Iraqi rebels who had just raided Kuwait houses and raped and piliged Kuwaiti citizens.
Remains of an Iraqi soldier
The even is known as the "Highway of Death" and it was a war crime.
They were killed AFTER Saddam had agreed to pull his troops out of Kuwait and surrender and they were bombed with Napalm, an anti-personnel weapons outlawed under the 1977 Geneva Protocols which the USA had signed.
Lets no forget that most of the Iraq army during the Gulf War and Iran/Iraq war were just civilians in military uniform. Of course they surrendered.
You might also be interested in reading this
"The double perimeter may be designed to draw U.S. and allied forces toward Baghdad and then conduct artillery attacks on them using shells filled with chemical and biological weapons."
You know this "bandwith crunch" could be eased up by lighting up some of that "dark fiber".
*.mil is American. Anyway, the prez's email address is president@whitehouse.gov.
Finaly, Iraq's internet sites would be in *.iq, not iraq.com
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
They're called telephones.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Ok, was just to know... ;)
Iraq is a secular state. That means they're not Islamic. Fucking moron.
I do not know your education level, but I would guess you are either young, or have not gone beyond basic primary education. You will eventually learn not to beleive everything you see.
#1 The media does not have access to Allied intelligence. Without access to the solid information that Iraq is a problem, they will publish many stories that are questioning the US position on Iraq simply because it's the only thing they have that is interresting to read.
#2 I live in Japan and my friends here as well as some friends I have in China would all disagree with you. Granted, they all have at least college degrees and have spent enough time studying governement and political science to realize that the situation in Iraq is more than just a personal problem with GW Bush....Iraq's actions have negatively affected the whole region and pose a real threat to the stability of trade in the region. This eventually effects us all as it could provide a chain reaction of rising inflation should those trade routes be disrupted. Inflation that outpaces income growth will widen the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" which could potentially unbalance countries with existing unrest.
It's all about being a responsible citizen of the planet. Iraq has taken the attitude that it should be free to do whatever it wants. Unfortunately, personal freedom can only go so far before it begins to conflict with the freedoms of others. The UN is involved in this for a reason. And lacking all the info myself, I will trust that these educated men and women who represent their countries in the UN have expressed an interrest because they have credible evidence that the problem is real.
I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/condemn.htm
All it takes is 1 single admin with a clue to install SpamAssassin to get rid of the bulk of it. ;-)
nt
Now Iraq is going to strike back with suicide email bombers.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
OK, can you point me to some of that "dark fiber" in Kuwait or anywhere the military deploys?
We're talking about tactical networks here, set up out in the field running off of diesel generators and using satellite uplink.
This guy is way out there
Well considering that these countries are poor, and yes we know that the pirate market is thriving in the Arabic countries too, but in the case of Iraq, Iran, even the taliban, don't they know that they already use Linux? That being the case, don't you think that "stuff" would get filltered out anyway? How many ways can you write "Defect now to the UN" or for that matter who about scanning the body of the b=message? Gee, who dumb do you think they are?
Did you think that up all by yourself? Or did your uneducated friends help you out?
Bush has repeatedly said he would not attack North Korea. Bush has no intentions of bombing Iran. Bush said a war with Iraq is to get rid of Saddam's regime, not to bomb the Iraqi people.
You can hate Bush and disagree on a war with Iraq all you want. But next time, read the news. Your ignorant reasons for spreading anti-Americanism doesn't do the world any good.
I personally would love to see this guy's response to a message from the US government.
(Someone has waaaaay too much time on their hands)
www.clarke.ca
Do you really think that mission critical data with information that might endanger thousands of lives would reside on an insecure WEBSERVER?
There's a massive difference between the security of a non-critical webserver and something of this proportions.
There are still NT workstations everywhere. Especially SPRNET computers.
MY servers are NT. We have not received any more Win2K licenses so we install what we have which is mainly NT. The situation is improving as all of the new computers shipped to us have Win2K on them.
What you see at where you work and what actually goes on in the Fleet Marine Corps are two different animals apparently.
This guy is way out there
And don't forget that other wonderful side-effect: Leaving troops in the Gulf (particularly Saudi Arabia) was a wonderful incentive for the Radical Islamists (aka Al-Qaeda) to get motivated. Nothing bums out a Moslem like having infidels in the holy land! It's enough to make you want to take out a building or two!
since some major research companeis are rating MSIE as unsecure why is the US military using this broswer to depend on its soldiers in launching military strike missions?
Imagine this:
Hacker in Iraq reads acccess hacking information breeding grounds like l)pht.cm, 2600.com and etc than uses flasw in MSIE to prevent a timed US military strike on Iraq..
Scary isn't it?
Don't Tread on OpenSource
"Iraq has taken the attitude that it should be free to do whatever it wants. Unfortunately, personal freedom can only go so far before it begins to conflict with the freedoms of others."
Tell me this doesn't describe the U.S....
We eat Spam!
I assume that the hardware/software necessary would fall under UN sanctions, which I assume have been in effect since the end of the first
Persian Gulf War. This is pretty curious to me... where does Iraq hook up to the net -- what countries does it peer up with? What's their total bandwidth?
Can private citizens even get on the Internet at all there?
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I hope some of the mail routed through California.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Whilst the technology changes, using propaganda to sap the enemy's will to fight is as old as warfare itself. A famous (though largely unsuccessful, apparently) attempt at such was Tokyo Rose, one of many female broadcasters on radio Tokyo during World War II who mixed American music with propaganda.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Oh come on, there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The USA has had a massive surveillance operation running for years, they have spy sattelites and planes, and they bugged the phone lines, and they gave their info to the UN inspectors, and the inspectors conducted 250 unannounced surprise raids on those places and still found nothing!
How much more proof do you need that Iraq does not have weapons of mass destruction?
Spamming them may be a good plan to waste enough of their time to delay their progress, but it sure isn't stopping them from using the ones they have now -- because they don't have any!
By the way: read this poll result in Portugal; more than 70% of the population think that the USA is the biggest threat to world peace today. 3% say it's Iraq, 1% say it's China. 12% say it's Israel.
All this warmongering will only make things worse. First of all, it gave North Korea a legitimate excuse to leave the nuclear proliferation treaty. After all, Bush said he will to preventive strikes against his enemies, and he said North Korea is part of the Axis of Evil, so he actually gave North Korea the only good excuse to build more weapons.
Bush should focus on rebuilding the economy he ruined so thoroughly, not on bombing Iraq and alienating Europe. Do you have any idea how frightened the South Koreans must be now, and all of that just because of a few dumb remarks from Mr. Bush?
You haven't heard of telephone monitoring? My goodness even a mother of a teenager knows about that.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Does Saddam use Linux or Windows ??
Just curious...
where are my mod points when i need them?
insightful, funny, informative, whatever
@#&*^@*!!
:-(
please be careful with that link. you just blinded me. and i'm the goatse.cx man.
Real face of Jesus on CNN website,
The real face of Jesus
#1 I do agree that i'ts difficault to get a balanced media wiew on the USA vs. Iraq case. However, related to Allied intelligence and access to the solid information: _If_, USA had some evidence about Iraq producing WMD; why dont they release it?
And don't give me that crap about protecting their "sources" inside Iraq. I'm sure that if CIA wanted to evacuate some "scientist" and their famillie(s) from inside Iraq to an US supporting country in the region it could have been done.
#2 I'm educated enough to know there are more to the conflict than GW Bush having a problem with S.H.
Quoted from you:
"This eventually effects us all as it could provide a chain reaction of rising inflation should those trade routes be disrupted. Inflation that outpaces income growth will widen the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" which could potentially unbalance countries with existing unrest."
The logic of attacking Iraq because the trade routes in the region could be disrupted because of instability in Iraq is plain stupid.
I'm sorry, but when you speak about the "stability of the trade in the region", it sounds like official Amarican propaganda.
Even if instability inside Iraq could lead to an economic downturn in Saudia Arabia and then political and economical chaos there, disrupting the oil supply and causing the oil price to skyrocket above 50$ a barrel and then cause an the US economy into reccesion; it's doestn't justify a "preemtive strike" on Iraq. Just to say it rude: Even if all the countries in the region agreed for some reason that they should _never_ again sell oil to US(that wont happen), it would not justify an attack on Iraq.
Reduced trade in a region should not be used in an argument to attack a country. Even if their leader is evil as Satan himself an the problem is real.
CNN learned about the operation Friday afternoon, and was initially asked not to report on it by senior Bush administration officials. Those officials later decided the information could be released.
Remember, way back in the 70s, this person called Deep Throat that blew the lid off of the Watergate scandal? Whatever happened to hearing information from a reliable source, then actually REPORTING that information without first consulting the government? How about the press being an independant journalistic adventure, instead of some guy pulling stuff off a news wire that's all pre-approved by the government? What about jounalists who actually investigate stories instead spewing back the same BS they heard 10 minutes before? The press here today is no better then that of the so called "restrictive nations" like many Mid East nations, where all news comes from the government approved facilities. If this is how the entire world is going to turn to, then bring on WW3 so we can start rebuilding a better society.
#1 I do agree that i'ts difficault to get a balanced media wiew on the USA vs. Iraq case. However, related to Allied intelligence and access to the solid information: _If_, USA had some evidence about Iraq producing WMD; why dont they release it?
And don't give me that crap about protecting their "sources" inside Iraq. I'm sure that if CIA wanted to evacuate some "scientist" and their famillie(s) from inside Iraq to an US supporting country in the region it could have been done.
#2 I'm educated enough to know there are more to the conflict than GW Bush having a problem with S.H.
Quoted from you:
"This eventually effects us all as it could provide a chain reaction of rising inflation should those trade routes be disrupted. Inflation that outpaces income growth will widen the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" which could potentially unbalance countries with existing unrest."
The logic of attacking Iraq because the trade routes in the region could be disrupted because of instability in Iraq is plain stupid.
I'm sorry, but when you speak about the "stability of the trade in the region", it sounds like official Amarican propaganda.
Even if instability inside Iraq could lead to an economic downturn in Saudia Arabia and then political and economical chaos there, disrupting the oil supply and causing the oil price to skyrocket above 50$ a barrel and then cause an the US economy into reccesion; it's doestn't justify a "preemtive strike" on Iraq. Just to say it rude: Even if all the countries in the region agreed for some reason that they should _never_ again sell oil to US(that wont happen), it would not justify an attack on Iraq.
Reduced trade in a region should not be used in an argument to attack a country. Even if their leader is evil as Satan himself an the problem is real.
Melius mori in libertate quam vivere in servitute.
I read CNN website to read what news other people are being fed.
Then I read the following for real version of news:
* Washingtonpost (http://www.washingtonpost.com/),
* NewYork Times (http://www.nytimes.com/) and
* Google news (http://news.google.com/)
So you believe everything cnn says? Saying one thing and doing the other is not new in history. Being naive just doenst help.
They do have WMDs and the proof is already there. We know they had certain chemical and biological weapons prior to 1994 (that they've ADMITTED to having) which were not destroyed by the inspectors. Now they are saying that they destroyed them AND all the records of ever having them.
Well, have you ever tried SAFELY destroying chemical and biological weapons? Guess what - it costs billions of dollars and years to build incinerators and special bio labs to get rid of that stuff and most of it you still decompose into compounds that are very lethal and need to be safely stored somewhere. Now Saddam is trying to convince the world that he has done all that and doesn't have ANY proof of any of that activity. Clearly that's a lie and that means that he either has those weapons or has already given them off to terorists and other regimes supporting terrorism. Either way that's a violation of the UN resolution and MORE importantly the ceasfire resolution that had signed back in 1991 and a violation of the ceasefire means the RESUMPTION of the 1991 Gulf of War.
Excuse me - but you did not come up with this strange argument yourself? Maybe one needs to be educated by the US Marine Corps to understand it.
Some things to think about for you:
- Does decreased trade justify killing?
- What's the US policy on North Korea? Where is the oil?
- How many problems are there in the world which pose a more severe threat to human rights?
Here, our country is on the brink of war with another nation. The press served the people by ensuring that they were not releasing information that compromised a military operation. They were free to print what they knew, but chose not to do so of their own volition. There was no oppression here.
Both situations involve responsible behavior on the part of the press.
Russian satillites
I certainly appreciate the Americans that go to Iraq to become a human shield
I don't know why you would appreciate them, it's the ultimate act of stupidity. Not only is it not going to deter the US, but in a way it "legitimizes" the use of civilians as shields in war.
Or are you going to tell me that the human shields Sadam has used before volunteered for the job?
It's very irresponsible.
- sigs are for wimps.
or has all that porn you jerk off to lowered your IQ?
I can just imagine how that will turn out...
Private: Sarge! We're pinned down by Jerry's on all sides. We're almost out of ammo. We have no medical kits and Private Wilkins is bleeding to death. What do we do!?!
Sarge: We're pulling out. Private Booths, send an instant message to HQ asking for a chopper liftout.
Private: Uhhh, I can't do that Sarge. The PDA is jammed up with these messages for enlarging your penis.
Sarge: Enlarged penis, you say? Must be a new battle technique. Right, men! Everybody flop out your penis and enlarge them. That'll get the Jerry's running scared.
Your shell script will give me twenty.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
She alone could accuse her lover, and destroy him by her confession. She denied; they insisted. She persisted in her denial. Thereupon an idea occurred to the attorney for the crown. He invented an infidelity on the part of the lover, and succeeded, by means of fragments of letters cunningly presented, in persuading the unfortunate woman that she had a rival, and that the man was deceiving her. Thereupon, exasperated by jealousy, she denounced her lover, confessed all, proved all.
this seems to have nothing to do with either the story nor my original post about propoganda.
do you think the investigator was morally correct in lying to get the information he wanted?
it's a fine line and i don't think it is usually justified (like in this case).
btw, the united states supreme court has ruled that it is okay for cops to lie in questioning; "the ends justify the means."
oh, and ianal.
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
#1 Let's say you have a girlfriend who's off at college and travels alot with a varsity team. When she's travelling, she has often asked you to check her email for her. The new season has started off and she heads out on a trip and you decide to suprise her by already checking her email because you know she is expecting mid-term grades and will ask you to check when she calls. To your horror, you find an email from some guy talking about how great the other night was. Do you call her right away and say, I was checking your email and I think your cheating on me? Or do you try and find out the truth another way and keep the ability to read her email as a source of information?
Granted that's kind of a loose analogy, but it hits the point. The US has intelligence gathering capabilities that we don't want people to know we have. While we could just come out and say, "We have discovered that Nuclear weapons release a high frequency EM energy when heated above 28 dgrees Celsius." Every country or terrorist that is trying to create or hide those weapons will start air conditioning them and we've just lost that source. Ideally, the UN weapons inspectors will find clues the old fashioned way that everyone already knows about, and we get to keep an intelligence edge.
#2 I think countries on the brink of poverty and wide spread government unrest would disagree with you. If attacking a country whos actions is causing your economic and social problems is the only way to get them to stop, then so be it. Many historical wars have been over trade issues. It's not like Iraq hasn't been a chance to resolve this peacefully....I've lost count of the chances they've been given.
The reason why I view this the way I do is because I used to be a member of the American lower class. I had a job out at McDonald's on the beach as soon as I was old enough to work so I could help my family pay the bills and attempt to save some kind of money for college. If gas prices had suddenly doubled, I could not have afforded to put gas in the car to get to work. I would have had to quit the beach job and look for something closer. There are millions of people in America who live paycheck to paycheck and they depend on a stable economy. There are 100's of millions of people in underdeveloped countries accross the planet who make less money a year than I make each week. And some of their income is derived from products they export that I buy. It just isn't as simple as, "damn, gas prices doubled, guess I'll have to cut out my weekly massage appointment."
There are also more trade issues than just oil out there. I have continued on with that subject because it's the most popular. America, as well as other countries, also export food and medical supplies out there. If we can no longer export it out there, then the people who worked to produce those items will most likely be laid off due to decrease in demand.
Trade matters alot and always has.
I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
I hate Bush and disagree on a war with Iraq all you want. It's just patriotic to recognize we are being governed by a clown that cannot say "Nuclear" instead of "Nukelar". does he REALLY think he is the leader of the Free World??
When I saw the story, spam and IE, I thought the US was exploiting holes in IE though email. Silly me, the US military is instead trying to use IE to guide bombs, share radars screens and other intelligence. Nice concept they have, to eliminate propriatory interfaces, but they might chose a better platform than MicroSoft. "All you need is Internet Explorer", said some Air Force dude without a clue. I really hope that was an automated product placement advert replacement of "web browser."
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
then perhaps would you like to explain the Marshall Plan or the Japanese Reconstruction???
Why would I look at Germany's domain to see what Iraq's internet domain was? Wouldn't it make more sense to look up Iraq directly? Like I did before I posted?
.cn, even though the name in Chinese 'Zhong Guo'.
Anyway, China's domain is
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
ACT NOW!
For a limited time only we are offering free shipping on any air strikes, or other arial attacks ordered through the internet. This is not a scam, real US-AIRPLANES will deliver them to your doorstep at no extra charge.
here is your special access code:
F3GDFA#678FGGFD*%4FFDC3247
use that when ordering before JANUARY 20 and we will include an extra defection AT NO EXTRA CHARGE TO YOU.
You have heard of offers like this before but this is COMPLEATLY LEGAL. We are the US Military and therefor the law.
Why isn't holographic technology being used?
Why not....
* Project a holographic image of the Death Star complete with tie fighters screaming overhead the skies of Iraq?
* Make images of Iraqi soldiers surrendering to US troops far in the distance appear and reappear in different directions at random times?
* Project a hologram of Bush laughing and doing the Dr. Evil pinky thing across the sides of all of Saddam's palaces?
We have incredible visual technology that can be used in many different ways to distract, confuse, and bewilder the enemy. Why not use them? Call up some of the big movie makers and rush in an army of soldiers dressed as ewoks or sandpeople? Or just equip them each with a device that projects a hologram around their body?
You are truly showing your intelligence with that post. You think 50 people walking/driving around an area twice the size of Idaho will be able to find anything? You are assuming that because they can't find anything, it means that there is nothing, but that is like me saying to you, come to my city and find my house, and when you can't, you assume I don't live there. *cough*dumbass*cough*
A poll from Portugal on a site called rumermillnews.com? You must be kidding. How long did you have to search to find that one.
As for your economy statement, do you honestly think that if Clinton was still president, the bubble would have just kept getting bigger and bigger without bursting? Bush didn't screw up the economy, that was your good friend Clinton. Bush just had the unfortunate luck to inherit it from Clinton, who was too busy getting blow jobs in the Oral Office to curb the runaway economic situation.
You sir, are a dumbass.
Erm.. Thole Iranian war and the Iran Contra (or
whatever) might also play some parts - in
terms of history.
But face it, we live in democratic times where
the people that want the oil the most, have
the 'democratic' right to take it (via
uni-lateral action).
The entire UN being against uni-laterial action
is something the Bush Administration doesnt
like to use in its propoganda - It much prefers
to say 'enforce the UN resolutions' - for
which of course you had a number of veto's saying
no to military action in the security counsil.
Don't let us forget that the US played a nice
veto recently, squashing the UN making an
official condemnation of Israel's military action
in [recent] times.
--
Silvio
Bush made statement last year (2002) at the
State of the Union Address directly referenceing
Iraq + Iran + North Korea (DPRK) as the Axis
of Evil. In that same address, he stated the
position that he believed uni-lateral military
action was fully justified and necessary.
Also look at the recent releases
where public statements were made at press
releasing where (paraphrase) 'the US was
capable of fighting different regional wars -
today'.
It is presumably true (for obvious reasons)
that Bush doesn't want to go to immediate war
with the DPRK since its not exactly a strategic
miliary action at this point.
It is clearly stated though that Bush believes
in uni-lateral military action. He does not
require the consent of anyone except
himself (nor the ICC! *sigh*) - which sort of
contradicts his public statements of 'enforcing
the UN resolutions and the views of the world'.
Bush has established a consistant escalation
of global destablisation since 9/11. It
is unfortunate, but that has what the Bush
Administration alone has done - It did not need
to declare or believe it had the right to
establish global uni-lateral policing of foreign
nations. Nor did it need to establish propganda
to cause segregation towards 'those *
fundamentalists'. It did not need to establish
that countries do not 'harbor *', or if
those 'sucicide *' are going to invade America.
It did not also need to establish the belief
that 'we are under a constant threat of *'.
--
Silvio
** America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. ~ Abraham Lincoln **
O penDocument&of=COUNTRIES\USA
i stan/campxray.htm
What the heck does Bush think he's doing? Iraq is NOT a threat to anyone but his own people now.
Yes, he is a madman and a criminal and should not be leader of a state. Maybe he wouldn't be in charge anymore if USA hadn't supported him when he attacked Iran, because without their help Iraq might have lost this war. Or if the US hadn't given Anthrax to him (he killed thousands of kurdish people with it, but never mind, he remained "our man" of the US in the gulf region).
But Saddam Hussein is NOT Al Qaida. In fact, they hate each other. Of course, this may change if the recognize they have a common enemy.
Bush must realize that he cannot fight terrorism with war. The sons of the soldiers he kills now are the suicide bombers of tomorrow. And all they need is a knife and a civil plane...
Wake up, America! You cannot fight against the rest of the world! You don't want to? So think about your actions, 1.5 billion Muslims may consider your actions a declaration of war.
I'm not auto-american, I like the American people, that's why I'm very worried about their current foreign politics.
Bush is creating a 1984-like state, with a powerful government and military that doesn't have to obey the law. Bush speaks about the alliance of "freedom and peace", but the world only sees how desperately USA wants war. And what's left of freedom when prisoners of war have no rights to see a court? When they are refused basic human rights as granted by the convention of Geneva?
http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/AMR511862002?
When the US government has suspicious people tortured in other countries, because it's *still* illegal in America?
http://vigilant.tv/article/1104
Or suspects are locked away forever, without the right to go to court?
You can see how civilized a country is when you look in how it treats its enemies.
http://www.ummah.com/inewsletter/massacres/afghan
http://www.freejohnwalker.net/
There was a time when America tried to show they're different from uncivilized countries, that human rights mean something to them. This time seems to be over and the rest of the world sees it.
I don't remember who said it, but I like this quote:
"Some people fight so hard for freedom until there's nothing left of it".
That simple sentence says it all!
And we can choose not to trust a word he says, also. I'm ashamed to have voted for him in the last election.
well said my friend. well said.
For all we know he might have sold the bio weapons to Afghanistan or some terrorist state. Who cares? He does not have them any more, unless someone proves him guilty. That is by the way the moral standard most western nations adopt for their own citizen. There is no reason to treat nations any different.
... If we just count the number of lies and deceit, it's not Iraq that needs to be bombed, it's Washington, DC.
You know how long it would take to find biological weapons in the USA? What would you guess? A day? A week? Do you have an idea just how many biological and chemical weapons the USA have?
Oh, I can hear you say, "that does not count!" "We are not using them on our own population!" Actually yes, the USA did test their ABC weapons on their own population. And I'm not only talking about the Anthrax letters (although the "it was a madman acting on his own" defense is always easy. Would you buy it if Saddam used it?).
Would you know whether he sold those bio weapons to the USA? How do you know it hasn't happened? After all, the US government censored the Iraqi weapons papers from 12000 pages to a measly 3500 pages (and now Bush has the chuzpe to claim there is stuff missing! No shit, Sherlock!?). Why would they do that?
There are an awful lot of unanswered questions, and currently most of the smoking guns are in the hands of the US government, not the Iraqis. For example, Bush cited a nonexistant study to "prove" that Iraq is building an A bomb, the fabricated "5 terrorists" that were trying to invade the US through Canada were another recent case,
Oh, and did you know that Saddam asked Bush Sr. for permission before attacking Kuweit? And that Bush Sr. told him that that he considers that an internal matter of the middle east and would not interfere? No? Why do you think you are well informed enough to have an opinion on the matter, then?
Yes, those questions are unpleasant. But they have to be asked; preferably before you start the bombing.
Memo
From: George Bush, President
To: Gen. Tommy Franks, Commander, CENTCOM
Dear Tommy,
Please go ahead and bring the boys back home. Pull out of Qatar, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia. There's a poll in a website in Portugal being quoted by assertive Germans that says we're evil.
Sincerely,
George.
I have to call some serious bullshit on this.
I am 33 years old and was not in the military. But TRIED to join but was refuse due to a curvature of the spine. But due to an innate ability for langauge, computers, and native intelligence, was given a chance, and in the end I opted out.
BUT my friends were sent to IRAQ, desert storm babies if you will. Guys that I knew as healthy and hearty individuals. Three of whom I would trust with my life. Engineers. They have told me that chemical weapons were discovered. But the US government covered it up. These are guys who have had genetic scans, have been told not to have children. They are physically fucked up because of the war. Not an uncommon tale.
When a teen in the US can build a fucking BREEDER REACTOR in a shed in his neighbors yard. YOU ARE TELLING ME IT IS AT ALL NOT POSSIBLE THE IRAQUIS DO NOT HAVE THE CHANCE TO BUILD A FUCKING BOMB? When there is so much cold war russian shit on the black market that no one sold them anything? Hey it aint all that hard to refind, and it aint all that hard to find.
You need to read your own post.
Asshole
Puto
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
So they expect Iraqis to take emails seriously of which they cannot verify the source to take action that could cost the lives of themselves and their families
Er, these are the people who surrendered to anything that even looked American, including reporters. Let's not overestimate them now ...
the fact that he send an encripted e-mail, is a sign of treason.
Remember that Saddam is paranod about traitors among his staff.
Maybe Saddam send fake emails from US, just to test the loyalty....
PENAROL: Seras eterno como el tiempo y floreceras en cada primavera.
The war in Iraq is inevitable for the following reasons:
(1) Economy - US and world economy depends heavily on energy resources. If Saddam is left to manufacture Weapons of Mass Destriction (WMD), he will use them on Israel and Israel will have to fight back with Nuclear weapons which means entire middle east will get engulfed into war. The world economy will crumble the day this happens. Gold will be prized possesion.
(2)Unstability in middle east results in volatility of US and world stock markets due to fluctuation of oil prices. (3) It is time for the US to clean up the past mistake of supporting Saddam and bring democracy to people suffering his atrocities. Also, this will help US move some of Palestinians to Iraq from the densely populated Westbank/Gaza region. (4) Saddam might pass his WMD on to nefarious elements that could jeopardize US security.
From what I see, the US plan is to have the inspectors do their jobs till the stipulated date and Saddam will be hiding his WMDs from them. Immediately after the deadline, we will attack Saddam before he gets a chance to bring his hidden weapons out.
The best strategy is to attack Saddam immediately after inspection deadline so that he doesn't get enough time to get his hidden WMDs out.
It's just a provocation strategy. They're trying
desperately to get the Baath government to do
*something* that can be used as a pretext for a
massive bombing campaign and ground invasion.
If UNMOVIC were to take interviewees to Cyprus
and then not return them to Iraq, it would be
seen for what it is, a U.S. spy agency, and
Hussein might conceivably (yeah, right -- he's
not *that* stupid) slow down his cooperation,
which to this point has been obsequiously
total, and thereby provide the required pretext.
All of this is driven by the Zionist/Oil faction
now in control of U.S. foreign policy: Cheney,
Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle. I think that they
are likely to fail in their efforts this time,
though. If I didn't believe that, I'd be morally
obligated to send them to their judgement, so I'll
stick to that view as long as I can.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
Maybe we could sell the Iraqis some X10 Cameras while we're at it and use the money to fund a financial stimulis package... Eric
"Seriously", read the part of the article you quoted: "flyboys could hop onto a special Air Force network from any PC equipped with a Web browser and special military encryption and authentication software" Not the Internet, but a closed network. The "from a laptop in a cafe" remark was just someone's lame attempt at being clever, as the parenthetical that follows illustrates: "more likely, at a secured facility". The point the Lockheed Martin guy was trying to make is that they're not using some low quality custom software interface (man, did I see a lot of CRAP like that in the Army) communicating via a proprietary network protocol, as was the tendency in the past. Instead, they're using standard web browsers over TCP/IP. Off the shelf technology, but on a closed network.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
At least not until our troops are ready
Imagine the mess if we find damning proof before we're ready to invade, and saddam suddenly has no more reasons to hold back
I would say that if the United States was trying to hide them, it would take about 400 years for a team of 10,000 inspectors to find the "smoking gun" type of evidence of biological weapons in the United States. Hell, it'd probably take them at least ten years to find any of the nuclear devices. I bet if they were all moved to Texas, it would take about a year.
Iraq is 432,000 square kilometers. If they have a square kilometer of WMD research and storage facility (which is a lot), then you have 0.00023% of the country where evidence can be found. If you had lost a contact that was 1 square centimeter, this would be like trying to find it in a space of 43 square meters -- with the wind maybe moving it around.
Inspectors have flatly not been on the ground long enough to validate your assertion that there is nothing there. The only places they've had time to search so far are the suspicious sites, sites where the activity was previously. They wouldn't have found anything yet unless it had been deliberately placed. I'll believe that there is nothing in Iraq when Hans Blix says there is nothing there, and not before.
By the way, since you believe what Iraq says about their weapons, do you also believe the inspectors are spies? Because if you do, I'm suspicious of whether you really care what the inspectors say or find (if you don't trust them, after all) and I wonder if you're not just looking for an oppurtunity to make jabs at the US because it's fashionable to do that where you come from.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
Yeah, if I was going to write idiotic tripe like that I'd use AC too.
When did the economy start nosediving? After the 2000 elections. Why? Because George the-monkeyman Bush was more interested in himself than the good of everyone. A general lack of confidence in the institutions that we all took for granted came out of those thirty days.
If that suited monkey in the whitehouse had put the good of the people ahead of his own ambitions, he wouldn't have put the whole country into a month long panic about the future of the nation. He would have conceded the race to Gore, because the only decisive victory (in popular votes) was won by Gore.
You idiots got your monkey man up top, and you see how well he's done. Now all you can do is blame Clinton, because monkeyman sure hasn't done anything.
Clue: it's been years since Clinton was around.
Yes, be happy with the wonderful performance by your walking, talking monkey.
Something wrong with the economy? Well, let's cut taxes. It doesn't matter what Allan Greenspan has said--we're going to cut taxes. It doesn't matter that last time we cut taxes it didn't do a damn thing--we're going to cut taxes.
Oh, you've jost lost your job? Well we've cut taxes on dividends... Yeah, thanks president monkeyman, that will sure help put food on the table.
Yeah, you should happy that my children will be paying off monkeyman's free tax-ride for himself and all his campaign contributors. Good job!
Let me give you another clue, you troll: go back to your TV, turn on Fox News and cheer real hard. Over there, no one will disagree with you. monkeyman is great!!! everything is great!!! saddam evil!!!! usa good!!!!!!
That's all you fools worry about anyway, right?
Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
Iraq may be 432,000 sq km, but don't forget that for a bomb to be developed, there must be a collection of people and materials. The gathering of these people and materials is almost certainly going to be observed by satelite.
If said observation did not occur, then the fault lays with the US gov't, who have known for a long time now that Saddam is interested in ABC weapons.
In other words, yes, Iraq is Not Small, but there are only so many places that they would be making these weapons. And all of these places can be checked, sooner or later. You can't argue that every square inch of the nation needs to be checked. They know where people are coming and going in that large desert, as there is nothing to obscure the movement of people.
However, my doubts are very strong that every place that needs checking will be checked by the time the US waves the green flag. They know when they are attacking. There are no buts, they know it, they will do so regardless of the UN weapons inspectors.
Is this what all these people mean when they say the wars of the future will be decided by information and will be fought on a digital battlefield?
Here are a number of things that had at first confused me.
1) Ranking senators in the intelligence committees saying they had not been shown any further evidence that made them conclude that Iraq had WMD.
2) The Administration's insistance that the group it shares the information with from the UN be *larger* than the current group of inspectors. Larger? WTF? If you want something to be secret you tell as few people as possible. Even the IAEA has mentioned that it would be helpful to them if the US has such informatin that they turn it over to the UN.
3) Ok, so assuming that the Administration knows that their allegations are false, then what? Why pick on Saddam now? His army is far weaker, though better entrenched, than it was in 1991, and the real threats to US forces would likely be post-Saddam ethnic violence.
So why Iraq and why now?
15 of the 9-11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, and I believe that the Administration feels that probing too closely into any aspect of the Saudi nation or government fundamentally undermines US capability in the Middle East. First we have the fact that they are THE MAJOR source of foreign oil (not a big deal, we could always get it from Russia, or Iraq...), but the bigger issue is not about oil.
We are immensely dependent on two nations in the Middle East for basing rights-- Saudi Arabia and Turkey.
I suspect that the idea is that we can position US bases in a Post Saddam Iraq because, just as we are doing in Afghanistan today, we will continue to create a divisive system which needs some oversight by US troups.
But I think the focus on Iraq is that a
"liberated" (occupied) Iraq would make Saudi Arabia dispensible, and that we would no longer have to pull our punches regarding that regime-- expect it to replace Iraq in Bush's Axis of evil.
In the end, I grudgingly supported operations in Afghanistan because I felt that Al Qaeda was a direct result of US aid to and recruitment for the rebels against the Soviets. But I am deeply concerned that if the US continues to sponsor the various warlords, that the rule of law will not return to Afghanistan, and it will be a place that will end up being the further breeding ground of terrorism. If we turn the middle east into our playground for witch-hunts, we will be encouraging the very thing we claim to be fighting, just as we did in Vietnam.
I will disagree with you though-- the North Korea situation is complicated--
1) North Korea we think was probably restarting their nuclear program in 2000, but only admitted to it more recently. On the other hand, the 1994 framework was supposed to give North Korea fully normalized relations with the US and membership in the world bank. These parts were never implimented, so one could argue that we broke it first (what the hawks think in North Korea, I would bet).
2) The reactor was restarted when we suspended fuel shipment-- this gave them the excuse to restart the reactor because they do need the electricity. When the IAEA complained that the refusal to allow inspectors was a violation of the Nonproliveration Treaty, North Korea withdrew from the treaty.
The unfortunate likely result is that North Korea will go nuclear-- we cannot negotiate with then for fear of encouraging nations, maybe including Iran, Egypt, or Saudi Arabia from starting nuclear programs. And failure to respond diplomatically, will result in North Korea going nuclear. Does this scare me? No-- North Korea has been a very repressive regime, but their policy towards the US has been one of deterrence.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
You sir, are showing your ignorance of the inspection process.
;)
Saying inspectors are unlikely to find anything driving arround is like saying that the FBI is unlikely to find bank robbers by driving arround, visiting banks and looking for them. Sure the statement is correct on the surface, but that is not how the inspectors operate.
The inspectors are detectives-- nuclear, biological, chemical. They are experts at putting information together and checking it out. this is easy with regard to a nuclear weapons program which requires extensive infrastructure components (U236 enrichment plants, breeder reactors, etc.), and much more difficult with chemical or biological (area denial similar in function to land mines rather than massively destructive weapons like nuclear ones). These agents don't require the massive infrastructure, but they lost their combat effectivenenss comparitively quickly. If the gas decomposes, it doesn't make a very good area denial agent.
If I were Saddam, I would have a lot of greenish-colred smoke bombs ready.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Never gonna happen. I have been living and working with the US Army in Europe for over 7 years now, and our "public" websites sit waaaaayyy outside the normal NIPRnet (Non-secure Internet Protocol Network). The entire pacific rim is BLOCKED at the routers on the NIPRnet.
SIPRnet (Secure Internet Protocol Network) is TOTALLY isolated from the Internet. Why do you think the DARPA gave the world the Internet?
BECAUSE THEY HAD ALREADY STOOD UP ANOTHER SECRET INTERNET FOR MILITARY USE! And on every router there is a heavy-duty encryption box called a KIV-7 that totally encrypts the data, so even if you can tap into a SIPRnet node, you get NADA for useful info.
You can't even SEE any SIPRnet nodes because it is totally isolated from the Internet. THere are NO gateways from SIPR to Internet.
And Unix-boxen are the machines of choice on this network. And yes, we do have a secret IM client that is used to pass bombing info (also encrypted waaayyy beyond the normal KIV encryption).
Good luck trying to get into that network. They will shoot you at the gates.
#1 I can understand the need for an intelligence edge, but your analogy is just stupid. There *are* ways of disclosing information to the UN without sacrifying one's sources.
Of course you could just claim country X is evil and reduce it to rubbles. That's just not nice, though.
#2 Let's take Iraq. People there live their lives the way they can - do you think the US is going to cause a lot of happiness when they start killing off drafted family fathers? That's the way it's going to be - someone more or less will force them to defend their country. Do you really think these people would agree with a war?
Have you ever lived in a country "on the brink of poverty"? My advice: Go there and ask.
So you were a member of the American lower class. I'm happy for you, you had less problems in your live than 95% of the planet. Take the time to read your paragraph again - or let me sum it up for you:
"I needed access to cheap oil when I was young so I could work in the McD on the beach. Otherwise I would have had to take on the lowly Burger King job next door. I buy child and slave labor products from all over the world, I exploit the resources of the rest of the world so the poor people in underdeveloped countries have something to eat. I am good. We need their markets to support our life style. So let's bomb them if they don't buy."
Goddamnit, your an OFFICER. Don't they teach ethics in your army? Do you put the US economy over human lives?
Btw, I pay about $1.10 for a liter of gas (that's about 4 bucks a gallon) and I'm still leading a happy life.
Please take this seriosly and consider answering me - I just cannot understand your point of view.
Okay, first off, this is the real world, not a video game. There is no "recono-sat" button that you press, and magically get a perfect view of all hidden units. Why do you think weapons inspectors, which are useless, but anyway, are spending so much time in supposed pharmecutical factories and plasic and rubber plants? Buildings that make nukes and germ warfare agents are not usually marked as such, so you have to get down on the ground, and take a peek. Also, such industries regularly deal with the ingredients and methods of creating weapons of mass destruction, which is one reason they are such ideal hiding places. And, one quick note, considering the fact that Iraq used biological and chemical warfare agents in the gulf war, which are weapons of mass destruction I'd say, yes, they do at least have some such weapons.
By the way: read this poll result [rumormillnews.com] in Portugal; more than 70% of the population think that the USA is the biggest threat to world peace today. 3% say it's Iraq, 1% say it's China. 12% say it's Israel.
First off, Portugal isn't exactly a superpower, I get my news from countries that actually matter in the socio-political enviroment. Secondly, polling is a notoriously innacurate when it comes to statistics. Sure, group a of 1000 people say one thing, but groups b, c, d, and so on totally disagree. Polls are used to back up the viewpoint of whoever is doing the poll. Also, once again, this is the real world. World peace is a nice idea, but when terrorists are driving planes into buildings, wearing the latest fashions from DuPont and Plastique, and rogue nations have been unusually aggressive over the past 15 years, what are we supposed to do, sit back and relax? Oh, and one quick note, other nations always seem to b-tch about us getting in the world's business, but who do they look to for leadership in the UN and Nato? Who do they rely on to keep the world economy afloat? And who do they scream "Help!" to first when they're in trouble? Uh-huh, thats right, the US of A.
All this warmongering will only make things worse. First of all, it gave North Korea a legitimate excuse to leave the nuclear proliferation treaty. After all, Bush said he will to preventive strikes against his enemies, and he said North Korea is part of the Axis of Evil, so he actually gave North Korea the only good excuse to build more weapons.
Bush made those remarks over a year ago, so I just have to giggle a bit when they use them as part of an excuse to act like lil brats of the international community. I mean, they know that, quite frankly, the North Korean government IS evil. Fact: As of 1995, North Korea had a higher percentage of Doctorate Degrees than any other country in the world. So how does such a country have a population that is starving, dying of disease, and being so heavily repressed and controlled? Hello, Communism/Totalitarian Regime! As in all governments, and especially communist ones, the select few are doin fine, screw everyone else. Not exactlly the behavior of a "good" nation, eh? N.Korea is throwing this hissy fit right now not because of anything anyone else did, but because they want more aid. Simple enough.
Do you have any idea how frightened the South Koreans must be now, and all of that just because of a few dumb remarks from Mr. Bush?
Actually, most S.Koreans don't think it'll come to war. They know full damn well that this is all bluff and bluster. But, its politics, so you gotta at least pretend to take these regimes seriously. I mean, WTF, who is N.Korea gonna use those nukes on? Every single target they could reach is either a nuclear superpower or allied with one. Iraq on the other hand could go apesh-t with heavy duty weapons, and as such completely wreck the world economy by slamming the brakes on oil production.
So whats the moral of the story children? Think before you speak!
Mod Points: Helping you keep your opinion to yourself.
Yes, it is very simple to build many forms of WMD. I can definately build a nuke, if you give me enough weapon-grade uranium. Have you noted one of the chief arguments for going to war, well, it was the International Institute for Strategic Studies that said Saddam can build nukes within six months if he obtained weapon-grade uranium. Oh, and every physicist, and every kid with plans to build a breeder reactor goes "oh, so what, so can I", well what does that mean? It doesn't mean that Iraq has nukes. It means that there is something you haven't grasped here, and there is some political agenda they're not telling you about.
Well, basically, the thing is that while it is easy to build nukes, it isn't that easy to survive making them... The weird thing about WMDs is that they are pretty dangerous... They are very, very difficult to control. To use them in combat, you got to know exactly what you're doing, otherwise, you'll probably end up killing more of your own forces than the enemy. Iraq clearly has a lot of experience with chemical weapons, they could use that, so chemical weapons should be the main focus of the inspections. But for nukes to be useful in combat, you would have to have tests, and we would know about those. Iraq is pretty much locked in among other arab nations, the only real target for big WMDs, nukes, for example, are Isreal, but there are lots of Palestinians there. It is very hard to see what incentive Saddam would have for making large WMDs. North-Korea OTOH is a different matter alltogether, they have a very strong incentive for building nukes.
If I were in the US, I would be a lot more concerned about nuclear terrorism than of Saddam possessing nukes. It is far more likely that a group of suicide bombers would lock themselves in a container in a ship going to a US port, assemble the nuke inside the container and set it off in port. No testing, no problems concerning damage on friendly forces, and so on.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
#1 Well, the girlfriend analogy/quoestion is difficault to answer as it would be a matter of trust between to people.
But if US have gathered information with some kind of secret weapon that they don't wan't to disclose, why don't they just tip of the UN inspectors instead of releasing the information themself?
#2 I do agree that trade matters alot and always had, and the Iraq "case" is directly or inderectly influencing millions of people.
But even if we discussed this for days, we prob. wouldn't agree with each other. You mean that trade (and some other Iraq actions) would justify and attack, I don't.
Also see that post that is replying to the same post as I am now. Evaen though he is posting as an AC, he actually has a point.
[sorry for my bad English]
Melius mori in libertate quam vivere in servitute.
"Err ... no. Bush I. chose to retreat from Iraq to have a justification for U.S. troops to remain stationed all over the Middle East"
If we would have went all the way to Baghdad, we would have had a place to call OURS. Plus, we would have had 1 less jackass leader to fuck with.
You don't need school education to figure this stuff out... so step down Mr. Holierthanthou.
Other than the "I have to wear elevator shoes to look tall" method of delivering your message, I agree.
You know, Mr. Myhigheducationlevelmakesmeproud, your entire post is the epitome of irony! And ironically, you probably can't see why.
i co-op with microsoft.gov they're now using methods which are illegal in their own country to MOLEST other countries until they give in and allow president bush to have his war for he needs it to get oil for petrol to keep his bullshtz cars running and pickin' up hookers.. blablabla... as if the 11. september wasn't enough.. what do you expect from the other if they loose their temper again? no war can stop terrorists.. they'll come for your poor asses and they won't use spam killers baby...
By the way, since you believe what Iraq says about their weapons, do you also believe the inspectors are spies?
...) as well. Otherwise it's not fair.
Interesting idea. I have never considered this possibility. Why would anyone want to spy on Iraq, when it is so obvious that they are technologically far behind?
No, I don't think the inspectors are spies. I think they are independent, until there is evidence that says otherwise.
I'm suspicious of whether you really care what the inspectors say or find (if you don't trust them, after all)
What makes you think I don't trust them? I think they are the investigative arm of the UNO. I find it very troubling that there are no weapons inspections in all the other countries with weapons of mass destruction (like USA, UK, Israel, France,
And my opinion here is that we need to give Saddam a real option here. We can still avoid war. So far Saddam has complied with everything, even the most humiliating and degrading stuff. What a sorry dictator he is, I mean look at him! He can't fly around over his own country! Foreigners are conducting unannounced inspections in his industry (what would you say if that happened to industry in your country? I'd shout "industrial espionage!", that's for sure)... If Saddam had a way out, he would take it. He does not care for war. All he wants is rebuild his country. And that's hard enough, given that all the money he makes from the oil he drills out of the earth goes directly to the USA, so how is he supposed to feed his population?
I normally do not reply to AC's, but per the request of a registered user....
#1 You are absolutely incorrect. You can't just go to the UN and say, "They are evil, trust us." and get results. The people you are pointing the finger at will demand evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Lacking that evidence, they will just accuse you of lying....which is exactly what's going on right now. We've made the statement that we KNOW Iraq has active WMD programs. But without disclosing how we know that, Iraq is just claiming that we're lying. Ideally, the inspectors will locate the programs the old fashioned way without us having to disclose the intelligence capability we have. In the event that the inspections team does report on the 18th that Iraq is squeaky clean, I have no doubt that the US will release that intelligence information.
While I may not know first hand exactly what the sticking point is with this information, I am familiar with this process. We do training out here all the time with the Koreans, Thai, Phillipines and Japanese. When we do integrated training with them, there are toys we don't even bring out to the exercises. The reason why is because the countries in question not only don't have the technology, but they're also not even researching it. The reason why they aren't researching it is because they haven't even thought of it. All they have to do is see it and they will begin looking into how they can duplicate and defeat it. Intelligence works the exact same way. If you know the weakness I exploited to find something out, you are going to ensure that the weakness is corrected.
#2 Of course no one wants war...myself included. I haven't "lived" in a country on the brink of poverty. But I have many friends who live and work in the Korean peninsula and I have visited there many times. I have seen with my own eyes the death and maltreatment that is not only due to government mistreatment, but a general lack of resources in the country itself. I have spoken with these people and some of them are so desperate, that they beleive war with their neighbors is the only answer left to gain the resources they need to survive. You don't even have to visit N. Korea to learn this though. Just find a night time picture taken from space. You can practically see the stark outline of the country because it is a gapping black whole with no lights spawned from industry or modernization. China is another country I have been unfortunate enough to witness first hand. There are entire villiages of people suffering from malnutrition that you will never see in the media. China wants to brag about its military might, space program, and engineering prowess. But you will never see the human cost enacted on their own people to fuel these highlites.
Your quoted interpretation of my earlier days looks like it was taken straight off a left wing militant manifesto. Guess what? Over half the parts in the computer you used to post your comment were made in the same sweat shop/child labor manner and you shelled out the money just like I did. What you won't read in your manifesto is that those kids who work in those sweat shops are proud of what they do and happy that they could earn some money to take home to their families. I'll agree with you about the slave labor being evil, but whining because some 8 year old kid makes shoes for $10 bucks a week is just ignorant. Take your own advice and visit Thailand. $5 there will get you a room, all the food you can eat, all the beer you can drink, and even a woman if you desire. That's because in their economy, they can support a family in what they think is a decent lifestyle for just a 100th of what it takes in First World countries. I'm not saying that we shouldn't make efforts to improve their quality of life. What I'm saying is that most of those people are just happy to be alive and have something to eat everyday and they really aren't concerned with when the next Britney Spears album comes out. If my $120 pair of running shoes helped feed some kid for a month as opposed to paying for an American teenager's new discman, then I can sleep at night. Tip a waitress in Thailand $1. In America she'd give you a dirty look and go complain about what a tight-wad you are. In Thailand, she will profoundly thank you because you just gave her enough money to buy food for the next few days.
I used the whole trade arguement as a demontration of one of the reasons why Iraq's actions are a problem. We're not going to attack them because they don't buy our stuff. We're attacking them because they keep doing things that are in violation of UN resolutions. Shoplifters don't go to jail for not buying something, they go to jail because taking it without buying it is in violation of the law. The international community has told Iraq "Don't do that" a thousand times and talking just doesn't seem to be working.
They do teach ethics to officers and enlisted and take it very seriously. This is not just an issue of the US economy. If it was, I would be the first in line to be a conscientious objector. If a war occurs in Iraq, it will be based on numerous violations of UN resolutions in addition to known ties with terrorist activity. If a war occurs in Korea, it will be because N. Korea invades S. Korea in a desperate attempt to improve their economic condition or as a result of a military coup. While I may not have seen first hand evidence of the Iraq situation because it is not in my Area of Operations, I HAVE seen the evidence in the case of Korea. There is no legitimate reason for N. Korea to attack anyone and I will sleep soundly at night if I am forced to halt such an attack. And I don't even need a course in ethics to know the difference between obeying and disobeying your community rules. Rules are rules, whether you like them or not.
I would be interrested to see an arguement on why it's OK for Iraq to repeatedly violate these rules.
I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
But TRIED to join but was refuse due to a curvature of the spine. But due to an innate ability for langauge, computers, and native intelligence, was given a chance, and in the end I opted out.
Please excuse my reluctance to be convinced by your obvious native intelligence and innate ability for "langauge". ROTFL
When a teen in the US can build a fucking BREEDER REACTOR in a shed in his neighbors yard. YOU ARE TELLING ME IT IS AT ALL NOT POSSIBLE THE IRAQUIS DO NOT HAVE THE CHANCE TO BUILD A FUCKING BOMB?
I see. So you want to punish them not because they HAVE weapons but because they COULD HAVE weapons.
I hate to be the first to break this news to you, but it's not illegal to be able to have weapons. Germany, for example, could have had the A bomb for decades. But we didn't want it. If you bomb every country that could have the A bomb by now, you have to bomb everyone. I suggest, for practical reasons, that we stick to the people who actually have committed crimes, not to those who could conceivably commit them in the future.
Yes, Saddam has commited crimes. And his country was bombed and chained to the ground for that. It is but a pale shadow of its former glory. It is time to end their suffering (in case you haven't thought about this before: all the suffering Iraqis spend their time hating the USA). Rebuild their country and give them a chance to be peers and they will be peers. Oppress them for another decade and you will breed a whole new generation of people who hate the USA.
Asshole
What an impressive display of "innate ability for langauge". I can understand why the US military would give people with your skill set a second chance to be shot in a foreign country so Mr Bush can make more money by relocating jobs to Mexico. After all, it takes the very brightest to not only be cannon fodder for their exploiters, but be proud of it!
I have applied to the AC's post at great length, but I think I can answer your points pretty quickly.
#1 I think we have provided hints to the inspectors. In a few days, they will make their report. Iraq has been warned repeatedly about their conduct by the international community and if they have once again tried to lie their way through the rules, then they're going to be punished. If the report indicates they are clean and no one else can bring evidence to the table saying otherwise, then I will be happy to see the sanctions and other actions taken against them lifted.
#2 I'm not saying their actions justify the attack. I'm saying that their lack of compliance to non-violent means of resolving this has put themselves in this position. It would be different if this were 9 years ago and they had messed up due to a simple misunderstanding and immediately showed a willingness to correct the problem and cooperate with the international community. Unfortunately it has simply been too many years and too many ignored warnings and violated rules and sanctions. I am saddened to see it has come this far, but repeated misconduct will eventually garner negative consequences. I once had my drivers license suspended for a year because I got too many speeding tickets. The judge was legitimately pissed, but also unhappy with what she was doing to me. Upon realizing that, I finally understood beyond a shadow of doubt what it means to be responsible for my own actions.
I live in Japan and my Japanese still is quite poor despite 5 years of studying. I think your English is great!
I hope this was the response you were looking for. If not, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Either way I think this has been a very good discussion.
I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
youre the monkeyman dude if you think economies just go sour because some other dude occupies the white house. Im sure sure is the one that caused all the dot bombs from failing ( he waved an evil magic wand)... even though they never made a penny. what a twit. the person who needs a CLUE is YOU. BTW the economy was starting to falter before 2000.
Is there other kind of magic you want to discuss?
by equating bush with hitler. not that you clown ass chamberlain asses would do anything about it if hitler was still alive.
which makes all the european countries even more stupid
Zionist? I'd mod you down on principle, but I've been commenting on this article. As long as you're throwing words around, what exactly is wrong with Zionist thinking? Please explain, if you can. Even though most modern Israelis are'nt Zionist, I'm curious. And no, I'm not Jewish. But I certainly respect their culture, and ability to survive. The oil thing I'll agree is a possible motive, but the whole Zionist reference flags you as a troll of the most obvious variety.
They were free to print what they knew, but chose not to do so of their own volition. There was no oppression here. Doesn't make it much better, don't you think? So press itself refuses to obey their duty to inform public as good as possible.
I don't need a signature.
"...diplomacy-through-alternate-means dept" is a major misnomer.
The military is a tool to be used when diplomacy fails, not a medium for implementing diplomacy, unless you consider the "unconditional surrender" of our enemies.
Electronic Counter Measures, Propaganda, etc. have been used by the world's military for centuries. The use of the Internet was inevitable.
Jerry Fletcher,
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Zionism is racism. Israel is conducting a program of
ethnic cleansing. Zionism has motivated a series of
wars of aggression, the gradual genocide of the palestinians,
the repression of Christianity and Islam, the construction
of the world's third largest nuclear arsenal, thousands of
brutal murders, the theft of thousands of homes and businesses,
military attacks on the U.S., the conversion of 1.5 trillion
dollars in U.S. taxpayer funds to the Israeli state. That's
just recent history. Reach back to the days of the Irgun,
and there's horrific terrorism, complicity in the genocide of
the Romanian jews, and who knows *what* that I've never even
heard of.
Iraq holds 12% of the territory of Herzl's greater Israel,
which extends from the Nile to the Euphrates, to Turkey
in the north and deep into the Arabian peninsula.
Iraq is Israel's #2 enemy (according to my accounting, in
which Israel is #1, but certainly Iraq is #1 in the IDF's
accounting). They hit Israel with Scuds in the Gulf War,
Montressor. Israel assassinated Bull because he was building
a long gun in Iraq which could target Israeli territory.
More recently, Iraq hosted Abu Nidal's retirement.
The Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld axis of evil is slavishly
devoted to Israeli interests at the expense of even American
interests, let alone Iraqi, and GWB's conservative evangelical
ideology is putty in their hands. They write Israel a
blank check against the U.S. bank account, without any
attempt to restrain it's brutality and expansionism. That,
my friend, is Zionism of the most virulently malign variety.
A troll is not someone who disagrees with you. A troll is
someone who posts material which is not pertinent or rational
for the purpose of inciting flames. My material is rational
and pertinent to the article that I was responding to.
I have no desire to incite flames, but rather to incite
reflection upon the reality of unpopular truths.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
UN weapons inspectors != US. The US isn't sharing our intelligence with them because it would let Iraq know what we know, and how much we know. That is why the inspectors are belly aching.
You sir, are an idiot. Read the fucking news sometime. HERE
Not even the UN (Hint: UN != US, dumbass) agrees with you.
So a big FUCK OFF to you.