Embedded Linux In Onkyo's Home Music Server

IrateSurf writes "ExtremeTech has a story about a new use of embedded Linux from Onkyo, which runs a home music server. Their NAS-2.3 has a CD-player as well as an 80GB hard drive for storing music and streaming it to other players on the an Ethernet network. Also check out the web site for the NAS-2.3." If only they would make it record radio, too ...

Comments

Can it...

[Tuxinatorium]

...rip CDs to MP3s? It seems like that would be a pretty good feature to have in a portable CD/mp3 player.

Re:Can it...

[Anonymous Coward]

insightful, eh?
how bout a read the fucking article.
short answer, yes.
long answer, EAD.

Re:Can it...

[TokyoBoy]

I agree whole heartedly. I would also like to see it support Ogg Vorbis format. I have talked to a couple hardware venders who plan on releasing Ogg support in their hardware but I know of nothing that has it _today_. Anyone know of Ogg support in hardware? (besides Zaurus). With this being Linux based, I would think that it could be possible to hack a solution.

Re:Can it...

[Anonymous Coward]

Behold! I am come down from the mountain-top to bring you Good News!

Ogg is dead! Ogg has been dead for quite some time! AAC is the future!

The power of Christ compels you to give up on Ogg and try AAC!

Re:Can it...

[enomar]

It seems like that would be a pretty good feature to have in a portable CD/mp3 player.

I don't understand. You want to rip cds on a portable CD/mp3 player? Do you have a hard drive on your CD/mp3 player? I don't think I've ever seen one of those. Please provide a url.

It would be great for the stereo unit from the story, but unless you're talking about a portable cd burner with a mp3 codec and a line in, I see no point in ripping on a portable unit.

Re:Can it...

[Anonymous Coward]

How on earth did this end (+4 insightful) ??

If the poster has actually read the article and followed the links in the submission;
(a)he would have seen a picture of an mp3 device with a CD player. You don't exactly need to be Einstein to work it out from there...
(b)He would have also noticed the fact that these aren't 'portable' devices, just as your VCR, Tivo, and stereo receivers aren't.

Surely (-1:Offtopic) would be a better moderation.

Re:Can it...

[orthogonal]

I don't understand. You want to rip cds on a portable CD/mp3 player? Do you have a hard drive on your CD/mp3 player? I don't think I've ever seen one of those. Please provide a url.

Well, I've got an Archos Recorder. I'm not sure if by "CD/mp3" player you mean "a CD player that plays MP3s", or if you mean "CD or MP3 player". If the latter, the Archos Recorder is a hard-drive based MP3 player (18 GB). It also records to MP3 format at up to 160kps.

By connecting a CD player's audio out to the Recorder audio in, I could in theory rip directly onto the Archos. I've never done this, and probably won't, as I'd have to manually enter song names, which is tedious, and as I like to rip CDs at a somewhat higher (~ 192kbps) quality. On the othr hand, the Recorder also contains a built-in microphone, so it can be useful for voice recording.

they must be rich

[Stanley Feinbaum]

They must be rich if they can afford to have 80gigs worth of legal copies of their music...

if each album takes 80megs about.. then the hd can hold 1000 albums... 1000 albums at 20$ an album is 20,000$ !

Who can afford to spend that much on music?

Re:they must be rich

[Anonymous Coward]

it's the same album, they just made plenty of 'backup' copies!

Re:they must be rich

[ChrisMG999]

But who actually buys all the albums that their mp3's are on?

Re:they must be rich

[StArSkY]

I have about 450 Original CD's, and my two flat mates (combined) would have over 1000. so do they make a version with 150Gb+????

Re:they must be rich

[infolib]

They must be rich if they can afford to have 80gigs worth of legal copies of their music...

Actually I just checked hard drive prices:
Cheapest available 40GB drive: $93.30
Cheapest available 40GB drive: $120.51
(Note that these prices are converted from DKK)

Since this is a $400 product, I wouldn't halve the storage space just to save 30 bucks.

Stanley Feinbaum, professional journalist and master debater!

You've come to the wrong place...

Re:they must be rich

[Anonymous Coward]

Boy, you entirely missed the point of that one, didn't you?

Re:they must be rich

[GregGardner]

An album would be around 80MB as a 128kbps MP3. If you follow the NAS-2.3 link, you will find that it also plays uncompressed PCM format music. That's going to be more like 500-600MB per album. So if you redo your math:

80 gigs @ 600MB/album = 133 albums * $20 = $2666.

I would say that a lot of people I know own over 100 albums easily. Not to mention people with roomates combining their collection, etc.

Re:they must be rich

[hatmouse]

...WHOOSH>>>>>

Re:they must be rich

[Dalroth]

I know a guy from college who worked at a *LIBRARY*. He was about 22 years old and had well over a thousand CDs.

I have well over 500 cds myself. I *WOULD* have more if they didn't cost so much. Back in the day when they used to cost $10 I made a trip to the store every week to purchase CDs.

Now a days, I make almost 8 times what I used to make. Maybe I'm getting cheaper in my old age (probably true), maybe new music sucks (it does but there is still a lot of stuff I like), but I can't justify $20+ for a CD I don't even know if I'll like. Were that not the case, I know I would have more. Most of my friends are the same. Between us we've got 1000's of CDs lying around our homes and apartments.

It's not impossible, in fact, in my experience it's quite likely.

Re:they must be rich

[sammy.lost-angel.com]

Classical music CDs are often very cheap. $5 if you go for bargins. Some of these are even double albums, and almost always filled. Don't forgot people that work in the music industry, who get several free cds in the mail daily.

Re:they must be rich

[rednox]

In Canada, it is legal for you to make a copy of someone else's music CDs for your own personal use.

Recording artists and performers are compensated for this by massive levies collected on all blank recording media sold in Canada.

This would be a handy device to take advantage of this law. It might take a few years to borrow and copy 1000 CDs from your friends, though.

Re:they must be rich

[ediron2]

Spread the cost out, man... ask 'Who can afford a few grand a year?!'

Young people. 15 to 25, no mortgage or significant debt, a job, and lots of exposure via friends to help thin out the good music from the bad before buying...

I bought music from when I was 15 to about 28 yrs old, and didn't buy much compared to most of my music-fanatic friends. Since then, I've tapered off to a few cd's a year, plus a few more as gifts. I've got well over 100 tapes, 150 in vinyl, 250 cd's, and one 8-track (Abbey Road, don't ask why). And I repeat, I wasn't SERIOUSLY into music like several friends I had...

So, 1000 seems quite plausible. What's more, a lot of those I got via cheap sources: rummage & yard sales, used bins, friends, etc. Nowadays, I pick up a cd when I hear a good concert or live band in a bar. Since the night's bar tab has usually cost me a lot more than the $10-15 for the CD, I consider it a tip to a good band and a chance to reminisce later.

Round down to 15k (that's being charitable compared to your $20 per album), give me 1/5 the needed collection, and spread it over the last 30 years, and it seems laughably cheap... $100 a YEAR on average. Rich?! Shee-it, I spent more last weekend on sushi! Throw in the wife's similarly-sized music collection, not force me to waste a wall in my li'l house (not to mention portability like ipods and archos units have) and give me access to stuff that's only available on out-of-print vinyl and I'd probably start collecting old, good music like a fiend.

Re:they must be rich

[Moofie]

ROFL

Thanks. That was funny. : )

Re:they must be rich

[BrittPark]

First of all if you're paying $20 dollars an album you're paying too much. Try $10 - $16. You also must be very young. I started buying albums when I was 12 and am now 40. I have about 500 albums vinyl and about 300 CDs, and have never been rich. Time makes up for a lot of things.

Re:they must be rich

[gmhowell]

I see several others have corrected you, let me add a bit more. I'll be 30 in about two weeks. My father's first CD player cost around $500. 1983 or 1984, I believe. At that time, I started buying CD's, and have bought only 3 tapes since. That's just CD's. Most were purchased for around $12 each. I have around 400 CD's. And I don't use some shitty 128k mp3, I use VBR with the r3mix settings. That's why I recently replaced my 60 gig drive.

This also ignores a music collection of my father's on vinyl that begins somewhere in the dark ages, when Buddy Holly was the new thing. Much (most?) of his collection is unobtainable on CD. That will quickly add up when I get around to ripping the vinyl.

Re:they must be rich

[Captain Large Face]

I trust that the 80GB is $120.51?

You've really opened yourself up there with the "professional journalist" comment.. :-)

Re:they must be rich

[Anonymous Coward]

First, why are you assuming 20 bucks?! I have about 900 CDs and never spent more than $13 on a single disc. I usually spent a LOT less because I buy used.

We also have to assume that the CDs were not purchased all at once. Accordingly, they were likely bought over the last 15+ years.

If we assume 1000 CDs for an average price of $12 (which I consider high!) over a 15 year period, that's 66.66 bucks a month on CDs. I think the vast number of /. users could afford that!

Re:they must be rich

[mbbac]

You don't buy all of the albums at once. Duh.

Re:they must be rich

[Tyrell Hawthorne]

As many have noted, it's not that unusual to have over 1000 albums. And what's more, it's not *that* unusual to spend that kind of money on a music system.

Here's something that resembles the Onkyo in the article, which in itself costs $20 000:
Linn Knekt

(Of course it's on-topic, it runs Linux!

Re:they must be rich

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when do CDs cost $20?

Re:they must be rich

[Slashdot Junky]

If you are paying $20 US on average per CD then you must buy only from music stores in shopping malls. Audio CDs are always priced high there. I buy most of my CDs at a 5 location regional chain(http://www.manifestdisc.com) and the rest at Best Buy or a similar store.

I have very close to 300 CDs, and all were purchased new for less than $20 on average over the past decade with the majority in the past 5 years. At the stores mentioned above, debut releases from new bands are quite often sold for $6 - $10 a disc.

Later,
-Slashdot Junky

Re:they must be rich

[The_K4]

The device it self has an MSRP of $1500....so if one can aford the hardware, i would expect they already have, or will be building up to having this many disks. If it were a $300 device I might agree with you, but this is in a different ballpark.

Re:they must be rich

[Excarnate]

Hi Oblio!

They must be rich...

There are 3 problems with your post. Working backwards:

Your cost per album estimate came out of your ass and it stinks. $20 per album is way off. Even when I buy new CDs they cost $13 at most (per disc). I buy lots of used discs at typically $8 or less. A rough estimate of an average for my collection is $7 per disc. Replacement cost, now that's something different.

Your estimates on how much music an 80 GB drive can hold don't list your assumptions and thus are useless for use in arguing or making a point. Using a (low) figure of 1 MB = 1 minute, and my collection's average of 52 minutes per disc (and 14 tracks per disc) I get about 1538 albums. I (and it seems many others) record at a higher bit rate, if you use 160/VBS it holds about 1326 of my average albums. Taking the higher bitrate and my averages, that's about $9900 worth of CDs this thing will hold. That's close to your $20,000 for goyim ;-)

The final place you fall down is in your time estimates. You assume that everyone is a loser teen who has to fill the hard drive and fill it today. I'm old enough to have been buying CDs since 1985. And I've got a beautiful wife who has been buying her own CDs for our (instead of "my") collection. And I wouldn't fill the drive with what we have today, but guess what? Shock shock horror horror, we are still adding to our collection and we wouldn't be interested in something without expansion room. With our collection we've spent an average of a bit over $400 per year of which I've spent about 3/4 of that. (And yes, Napster led us to many new bands where we ended up buying the band's CD.)

Oh yes, Onkyo might not care if you don't buy this product. They sell many products aimed at different segments of the market. There are people whose CD collection makes mine look puny. Just because a coat doesn't fit you doesn't mean it shouldn't be for sale. The same for this product. But you have a point, too. I fail to see it, but I'm sure you have one.

Hey, here is an idea for record companies: Give away all music but at a low bit-rate. People can find what they like and what they think sucks a golf ball through 50 feet of garden hose. And the quality will be low enough that they'll want to buy, on CD, what they like.

Re:they must be rich

[Anonymous Coward]

People who want to look at themselves in the mirror and sleep OK at night. Friggin thief.

Why not wireless?

[Metalhead01]

There are a lot of these little guys popping up on the market, yet all of them use a physical connection. Is there some inherent technical problem with using an 802.11b device to stream the music?

Re:Why not wireless?

[pummer]

you should be able to use one of these for wireless. It's an adapter that plugs into ethernet ports and turns them into wireless.

Re:Why not wireless?

[NetJunkie]

Ethernet is cheap. Want wireless? Buy a wireless bridge for $100. I do that with my Rio Receiver and XBox.

Re:Why not wireless?

[Metalhead01]

you should be able to use one of these [zones.com] for wireless. It's an adapter that plugs into ethernet ports and turns them into wireless.

While I'm sure you can, why no wireless models?

Re:Why not wireless?

[pummer]

The powers that be most likely figure that more people have Ethernet, and it's easier to convert Ethernet to wireless than the other way around. That being said, there are so many obscure and seemingly useless audio devices out there that it would justify at least one wireless model being built.

Re:Why not wireless?

[buckminster]

Or use a wireless bridge like the Linksys wet11 (same price as the wireless converter referenced above). The advantage with a bridge is that it can handle more than one component for about the same price.

Re:Why not wireless?

[Anonymous Coward]

While I'm sure you can, why no wireless models?

• Segments the market
• Wireless is harder to configure than DHCP

If the market for these boxes proves large enough, expect more variety, including built-in wirelessness.

Re:Why not wireless?

[Drakin]

Price, simple as that. They're trying to keep the price as low as possible, and adding wireless supporty would likely as $50 to $100 to the price, for functionality not everyone would use.

The consumer base (not more geek minded users) hasn't really started to adopt wireless in a major way, while they're getting into devices like this.

Re:Why not wireless?

[Anonymous Coward]

and add another wall wart! and another one! and another one! i'm so glad we're wireless!

Re:Why not wireless?

[Stanley Feinbaum]

yeah, you aren't allowed broadcasting music over the airwaves without a licence.

Re:Why not wireless?

[Moofie]

Since the device is aimed at custom home system installers, it's a pretty good bet that those guys are going to be putting Cat5 all over the place. And, for a stationary device, I'd always rather use wired rather than wireless, unless there's a compelling reason not to.

Re:Why not wireless?

[Moofie]

On the other hand, what non-geek would be buying a hard-drive based music player?

On the third hand, if you're REALLY a geek, you know how to pull Cat5. : ) Wireless is fine for laptops, but I don't understand why I'd want to use it for stationary boxen.

Re:Why not wireless?

[jedrek]

My friends in NYC are renting a big apt. When they started figuring out how much it would cost to cable their apt, it came out to like 2x as much as setting up a wireless network. 95% of what they do is internet sharing so the economics panned out great.

Re:Why not wireless?

[Zathrus]

There is no technical problem, just a logistics one. It's trivial to convert wired to wireless, but not the other way around. It would also add significantly to the cost, when most of these systems are trying to stay low priced.

Personally, if someone came out with a wireless model that would kill it dead for me. I have no wireless in my house, other than cordless phones (and none in the 2.4GHz range), but I do have ethernet jacks all over the place.

Re:Why not wireless?

[mbbac]

Keeping the price low doesn't help too much if they don't sell.

Very few people have Ethernet in their living room. People don't want to plug some stupid dongle into the unit to make it wireless.

Re:Why not wireless?

[SubtleNuance]

do you really want something like that blasting out radio near your $2000 CDN reciever?

Re:Why not wireless?

[Excarnate]

Why Stanley, you are a troll!

Re:Why not wireless?

[Anonymous Coward]

The frequencies that WiFi operates on are considered unlicensed spectrum by the FCC and can be used by anyone for anything as long as the use doesn't interfere with other usage.

In fact, if you search on the FCC web site for "2.4 GHz", you will find a presentation about WiFi that lists "Listen to MP3 music" as one of the possible uses. Clearly they are not against it.

And for those people looking for a music appliance with builtin wireless, here is a stereo system that is supposed to come out in Q1.

Re:Why not wireless?

[Anonymous Coward]

it might be $2000 Canadian, but what's that, about $1000 American???

Re:Why not wireless?

[Moofie]

Fair enough. I've never played with plaster and lathe walls. I imagine they're a lot harder than drywall.

If I was renting, it certainly would be a different question. However, I don't think that many people have custom home-entertainment systems professionally installed in their rented apartments.

: )

Archos Radio Recorders

[Foxxz]

"If only they would make it record radio, too ..."

See archos for devices that record raido directly into mp3. They have a hard drive and a smart media device that does that i beleive. Plus they keep the last 30 seconds of audio in memory in case the song you want has already started you can still get the begining.

-Foxxz

Re:Archos Radio Recorders

[wahay]

It looks like the archos only is intended to record songs off the radio. What if I want hour-long programs? Can it handle that, or does it time out. What about scheduling? I don't want to babysit my radio-tivo. And bummer about the FM-only reciever.

does it matter what OS it's running?

[rtphokie]

mod this flamebait if you must but I gotta ask, what does it really matter what OS it's running?

It could run TRS-DOS for all I care as long as it gets the job done efficiently.

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[Erik Hollensbe]

Thank you! I was hoping for a comment like this.

Sure, it's nice that it runs linux, but damn, does it really count as "news" that ONE MORE piece of specialty hardware runs linux on it (and a proven version of linux, no less)?

Yes, go ahead and mod me redundant. :)

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[bahwi]

Because this is a linux-centric/Free Software/Open Source Website. That's why we care.

Lately I've noticed a lot of people coming to slashdot not understanding what Slashdot is about. It's really getting annoying, so I hope the parent and this post will be modded as offtopic, or else the moderation system will fail.

Yes, I know some people are against people moderating posts "Offtopic" but sometimes posts are actually offtopic.

I think Slashdot's hits the age where we can all say "I used Slashdot before it was cool." I hate to say it, but Slashdot's dying. Alot of people who don't understand it are getting on the system. Opposing the NYTimes stuff, opposing sending traffic or slashdotting places on the web(despite the fact that if you don't want traffic, don't put your site up, which is an accepted fact. I don't go dancing in a mine field and bitch when I get blown up). It's like slashdot is becoming an entire separate population with politics and everything, when it's really JUST A F$(#@!!#$@ Website that posts news and allows people to comment on that news. I keep my threshold at 3, but soon I may have to up it to 4. Big deal, I'm here for the news. I don't think anyone on here is cool because they're here. Even kuro5hin has started sucking recently since it's showing alot of Slashdot-topics. It's like, come on people, go play Everquest and consider that your life, no Slashdot. Slashdot is just a place on the web with links to news and cool things, not a meeting ground for a secret underground club. Shit people, take a pill, get a life.

Like I said, my threshold is 3, all comments moderated funny get +6 instead of +1. At least the guys running this site know what they're doing.

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[Stigmata669]

bravo! sucks to the linux freaks!

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[Black_Logic]

:flame on:

Well, it matters because this is not
a press release site for mp3 players.
The fact that it's using a a version
of embedded linux is a interesting
facet of the story to someone who is
interested in the way things work.

Also slashdot readers have a bias for
linux related things. (It's one of
the reasons i'm here)

Why are so many of the readers here
so constantly pissed off about the
pro open source/linux/anti-windows
slant here?

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[Maudib]

If this were simply a piece of speciality hardware or a component from a pc-centric/mp3-enthusiast company, then it would be fairly trivial. But this is from onkyo. Onkyo is a manufacturer of fairly high-end consumer stereo equipment, with zero background in pcs. Its the equivalent of Bose or pioneer using linux on their recievers. Or sony or nintendo using linux on their consoles. Its an application of linux in a major piece of consumer electronics. Hence, its fairly major.

Sure Dimaond and Rio have similair products, but they got their start in computer based audio. This is the transition of linux to the mark at large. Id say thats news.

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[Anonymous Hack]

Because this is a linux-centric/Free Software/Open Source Website. That's why we care.

No, no it's not and what bothers me is people who think it is. Certainly, it's a part of OSDN, but it's not a Linux members-only club. From the FAQ:

Slashdot is many things to many people. Some people think it's a Linux site. To others, it's a geek hangout. I've always worked very hard to make sure that Slashdot matches up with my interests and the interests of my authors.

In other words, it's whatever the hell CmdrTaco, the editors and the story submitters feel like it should be on the day. I don't agree with the initial poster who was like "big wow", but i don't agree with you either. Yeah often a lot of the "LINUX RUNS ON TOASTER X" stories don't thrill me in the slightest, i ain't bitching, but remember we're out there.

I code in Linux every day for work, but when i go home i use Windows. I buy my CDs and loathe MP3s and pirated music. I watch wrestling. Most anime bores me. I'm not the only one. Big deal, you know? We're all people who read Slashdot, and whatever it is it's gotta be something cool because we keep coming back. (Since late 99 for me.)

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[russellh]

1. things that run linux is news for nerds
2. no news is good news
3. news about things running linux is bad!

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[Erik Hollensbe]

What about sharp (the zaurus, makers of various consumer electronics), or the empeg (who didn't make anything prior)? Or TiVO?

Sony DOES use linux on their consoles. In fact, you can get a kit that lets you do development on PS2 hardware.

And, Diamond got their name making video cards. Only later did they start making everything that fits in a PCI slot (this was shortly after they bought Supra).

I just find it hard to believe, that embedded linux has been out for how many years, and we're still cheering about it being licensed?

Lineo (or whoever owns them now) did the world a great service and may have made some money at it, and now linux is everywhere.

But what's next, are we going to hear about the embedded linux that's in the next high tech microwave?

At this point, it's really not the fact that /. posted this -- I'm not surprised at all. It's just that there has to be a point where you guys realize that it's already BEEN accepted in this market.

If you guys masturbate too much, it's just not going to feel good anymore.

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[bahwi]

Take a look at the site. Linux/Open-Source/BSD certainly seem to be the theme of this site. Just because CmdrTaco == Theme of Site doesn't mean CmdrTaco's Interests != Linux, Open Source, BSD.

You're going on technicalities here, when that certainly doesn't seem to apply at all. I use BSD, not linux. I detest Windows, and I enjoy Anime when it's good(once every few years). Wrestling I don't care about. We are all people, and that's that. There are people on here who bitch because someone posts something that doesn't interest that specific person.

But good use of the FAQ. Next time I'll just post a link and I'll be good. =)

I'm just sick and tired of people against linux or against open source coming here and getting upset that those stories are here. Or worse, modded up, like we haven't been having those arguments for some time now. Or people who bitch because they can't mod. I read most comments looking for something funny, and keeping my threshold at 3 is generally quite good. But it seems that sometimes posts like the first one get through, the same old tired argument. And sometimes I just feel like myself posting and going along with that same old argument. People need to understand they don't have to be here. If it's auto loading in their browser they need to change their start page, no one hacked it to do that.

I'm just bitching hoping that these people will quit. For the honeymoon for google story(still on the front page) I have 70 of 334 comments. If I up my threshold another notch I'll have even less, and there are many people who post something interesting, but there are people who post something offtopic that gets modded up as "Interesting" or "Insightful" when it's really not. Checking now, that post is at 5. Maybe soon I'll have to disable comments altogether just to get past the crap, and post comments myself blindly when I want to contribute.

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you guys masturbate too much, it's just not going to feel good anymore."

Thats the purpose of "The Stranger"

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[nathanh]

It does matter because it proves that Linux is useful in its own right, rather than being nothing more than a fanciful toy for geeks.

When a major company treats Linux seriously it's a big boost for the open-source and free software communities, and a big slap in the face for the fools claiming that Linux is "useless" or "without value".

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[jmorris42]

Because if it is running Linux there is hope of reflashing the bugger and getting a useful piece of gear. I.E. no dependence on a Windows file server (which the current software depends on) and getting OGG support.

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[jmorris42]

Ok, replying to my own post a minute later is lame. But I had this gadget confused with a different Onkyo receiver I was looking at a day or so ago. This one has its own HDD unlike the Net Receiver I was pondering earlier.

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[lgraba]

It matters because it provides ammunition to use with people that will insist on only using Windows and parrot the latest MS FUD, while completely resisting even LOOKING at Linux. The next time they say something to the effect that Linux is useless, can't compete with MS products, etc., you just point to a couple of electronic boxes in their home entertainment center and say, "Oh yeah, well your TiVo is using Linux, your MusicServer is using Linux, ..."

Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure it does matter. This way you know who Onkyo pays for the OS license, and in turn YOU pay when you buy this... Since it's running Linux, you know that your money isn't spent on an OS license. If it would be running some sort of Microsoft OS, you would be paying for that... The price of the unit would most likely be increased as a result, unless Onkyo/Microsoft wanted to absorb the cost which is unlikely.

And finally, I like to know what it runs, because I wouldn't buy a NAS that runs Windows OS... Reason? Simple... WHY would you?! It's not biased; it just doesn't make any sense to make an NAS device running Windows OS. Point of NAS was to offer a _LOW COST_ solution to adding more storage to your network. Spending additional money on OS licenses defeats the purpose. And we don't even have to get into reliability issues.

Other sources

[pompomtom]

Legal mp3's don't have to come off a $20 CD.

Check acidplanet.com mp3.com mp3.com.au spinwarp.com etc etc etc

Re:Other sources

[Anonymous Coward]

you almost forgot to mention that ALL THAT MUSIC IS SHITE.

Article Text

[Anonymous Coward]

Onkyo (www.onkyousa.com) is one of the better-known Japanese manufacturers of home theater gear. Recently, the company has begun building audio and home theater equipment with built-in Ethernet ports, rather than some proprietary connectivity scheme. PC Magazine wrote about one of Onkyo's product, the NC500 Net-Tune Receiver. However, the Net-Tune receiver is perhaps the least interesting of the products, offering the now-familiar paradigm -- the digital receiver that can route music from your PC to your home audio system. The NC500 does have a stereo amplifier, but is otherwise similar to products from Turtle Beach, Sonic Blue and others. However, Onkyo is bringing Ethernet capability to a full-fledged, Dolby Digital/DTS 7.1 receiver in it's TX-NR900, THX-Select certified home theater receiver. The TX-NR900 offers 110 watts RMS into 7 channels, supports all the major surround sound standards and can act as a Net-Tune client, allowing you to pipe the digital music from your PC directly to your home theater rack. In addition to the usual array of input and output ports is a standard, 10 megabit Ethernet port.

That's pretty cool, but that's not all. Onkyo also sells a line of high-end gear targeted towards custom installations under its Integra brand. Onkyo offers products similar to the NC500 and TX-NR900, but with additional capabilities. What's most interesting, though, is the Integra NAS-2.3 Net-Tune Server.

At first blush, the NAS-2.3 seems like a CD player, but it also has an embedded 80GB hard drive. So now it appears to be like any number of digital music players on the scene. But the NAS-2.3 also has a 10/100 Ethernet port, and is capable of acting as a music server to a network of Net-Tune devices. Running on the Integra product is an embedded Linux operating system, which acts as the server software.

The NAS-2.3 can support up to 12 simultaneous streams to Net-Tune receivers or other clients. You can have different tracks playing in multiple rooms, move music to a PC, display a playlist on most types of displays (the NAS-2.3 has VGA, S-Video and composite video outputs) and can even connect up to CDDB to download track information on various CDs.

One other interesting aspect of the NAS-2.3 is the availability of an empty drive sled inside the box, allowing users or installers to add additional hard drive space. You can't use a standard, PC-formatted hard drive, according to Eric Harper, Integra's Custom Installation and Product Manager. The formatting is somewhat different, but a knowledgeable user or installer should be able to add another drive to the server.

So if you don't want the headache of building your own music server from a PC, then the NAS-2.3 can integrate into your home Ethernet network, co-existing quite well with your PC systems. It's an intriguing idea that embraces the PC network, rather than trying to remain isolated.

NNY News with a twist of lime.

Re:Article Text

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee, that sure sounds like a LOT of information on a product that isn't on the market yet.

I WONDER if this is a shameless plug by the manufacturer? Or worse, some software engineer who worked on the product. LAME!

Embedded Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone were to make a single-chip implementation of the S/390 architecture, put it onto an embedded evaluation board along with massive amounts of flash ROM and memory, and run it off of a couple of car batteries (okay, this would only last a few minutes, but still...) would that make OS/390 an embedded OS?

Because thats practically the same thing as all this "embedded" linux talk.

why

[Anonymous Coward]

why do they have to make these so big?? mp3 players are tiny and handheld. Cd players are handheld. You could combine the 2 into a device a bit smaller than a portable DVD player. (You know, the ones with their own screens.) What would be neat is a handheld with wireless connectivity built in so that you could transfer your mp3s to it over Wi-Fi. That would rock. Now, back to the Linux issue. I know this has been posted above, but if you can't install anything on it, and it functions correctly, who in hell cares what it runs?

Re:why

[EvanED]

There's the display to, they want to make it look nice among the other stereo devices, and finally take a look at the back panel. They use virtually all the space.

Re:why

[YrWrstNtmr]

why do they have to make these so big??

1. space for all the connections in the back

2. power amp cooling. Driving serious power to multiple large speakers takes power. That heat needs to be dissipated.

3. It looks better

Re:why

[Anonymous Coward]

power amp cooling. Driving serious power to multiple large speakers takes power. That heat needs to be dissipated

except the Onkyo doesn't have an amplifier
so all of its functions could of been fitted into a 1U high unit instead of a 2U, your CD player doesnt need a large fan or serious cooling so why should this ?, all the connections could of still fitted into a 1U high form factor, hell my laptop manages and its less than 1"

why does ergonomics and computers always come up with an ugly/poor design say compared to high end audio or even an Apple ?,

looks like design and asthetics is still an underated skill

Re:why

[carpe_noctem]

erm, mebbe because most stereo equipment is manufactured at 19" and they want to make it an actual audio appliance?

Re:why

[sholden]

And the client product, which does have an amplifier (although at only 15W a channel, and only two channels), is significantly smaller. Less than half the size...

Of course half the size in the wrong dimension if you want to stack it with your other audio components...

Re:why

[YrWrstNtmr]

except the Onkyo doesn't have an amplifier

From the extremetech review:
"The TX-NR900 offers 110 watts RMS into 7 channels"

Sounds like an amp to me.

Re:why

[Anonymous Coward]

your right, i dont see any speaker sockets here
http://www.integrahometheater.com/images/products/ nettune/large/nas23r.jpg

Re:why

[Anonymous Coward]

i think he/she means the nas2.3

Onkyo also sells a line of high-end gear targeted towards custom installations under its Integra brand. Onkyo offers products similar to the NC500 and TX-NR900, but with additional capabilities. What's most interesting, though, is the Integra NAS-2.3 Net-Tune Server

And the rear panel seems to confirm it

Re:why

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, screw you apple people and you ikea people and all your shit has to be small and colored.

if you want to make a custom case, do it.

SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT.

Re:why

[whipping_post]

It's obvious you're just trolling. You complain about size and then try to say that it is ugly/poor design compared to high-end audio. Show me high-end audio that is small. And don't give me this Bose bullshit, you said "high end."

And if you are saying this isn't as elegant of a design as some high-end systems, by God, you'd be right! Because this isn't high-end. You're asking why a Honda can't have the same design qualities of a BMW.

Re:why

[Zapman]

Outside of the integrated amp weighing a ton, there's another reason. If you listen to the 'audiophiles' out there, one of the things that they rave about is 'build quality'. 99% of the time, what they mean by that is 'weight'. "Feels cheeply made" is a complaint about a lot of 'low-fi' and 'mid-fi' gear (low and mid-fi gear is defined as equipment one or more steps down (usually in price) from the gear you currently own (or the gear you're currently lusting for)).

There do exist good, quality, peices of equipment that produce music wonderfully. Trust your ears over your other senses (unless you're looking at video gear. At which point your eyes should only see 2 things: the picture and the price. People can be conned into wasting a lot of green on video gear.)

I'd like more TIVO like functionality

[SuperCal]

I'd like one to work more like a radio Tivo. Say I always listen to Neal Boortz and Sean Hanity, then maybe the machine will sugest old Rush. Or if I always listen to the new rock station, maybe save the new rock show (or what ever the call radio segments) on a different station. Of cource without any real listings of radio shows, like a radio TV Guide, all that may be asking to much...

Re:I'd like more TIVO like functionality

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I mean, I was kind of hoping I could shell out $10 a month so it could track my listening habits, too. I mean, can't we get "Gator" for it? Is that too much to ask?

Re:I'd like more TIVO like functionality

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're listening to Sean Hanity the device should recommend a good psychiatrist.

Re:I'd like more TIVO like functionality

[Anonymous Coward]

recording radio is so illegal its not funny.

what i want is a broadcast box, nice and simple, runs off a car battery... easily to transport... drive it around town and PIRATE RADIO STATIONS SHALL RETURN!

Re:I'd like more TIVO like functionality

[Drakonian]

Good idea! Maybe we should have an Ask Slashdot on it.

Sorry, I couldn't resist - I mean it was in the summary!

Re:I'd like more TIVO like functionality

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'd like one to work more like a radio Tivo. Say I always listen to Neal Boortz and Sean Hanity, then maybe the machine will sugest old Rush"

You have just provided three perfect reasons why it should not work like a tivo.

Re:I'd like more TIVO like functionality

[Anonymous Coward]

You cant have this...EVER!! the RIAA makes 100% sure that you will never EVER know what song is going to play when. It's called a requirement to never ever publish a playlist until it has been played.

remember the RIAA hates you.. Why else would they do these things.

this is why EVEN in the pay to hear premium XM channels you cannot get a playlist of what is going to be play'ed today... they dont want you to see that list. It's not because there is some randomness to it, there is some... but they dont want you to realize that certian songs are REQUIRED to get a certian amount of airplay and at certian times.

even the after played playlists are not in order or are innacurate.

Go become a DJ... and become appaled at how radio stations are run and are controlled by the record companies.

Hell you cannot get an accurate

Re:I'd like more TIVO like functionality

[Anonymous Coward]

>If you're listening to Sean Hanity the device should recommend a good psychiatrist.

Good to hear from a fellow 'open minded' liberal. You may continue wallowing in all of your simpleton slogans:

'progressive policies' - the status quo right now - how can staying the same be progressive - staying the same is being 'conservative'
'big business is evil'
'tax cuts are bad'
'feed the homeless' - only heard when a republican is in office
'global warming'
'right wing' - 'left wing' exists but is never ever ever used in the media
'fundamentalist'
'pro-choice' - how come 'pro-choice' never includes respect for anyone whom disagrees with any tax, government or social opionion you have.

no

[john_is_war]

no it's not cool.

Ogg

[Gyorg_Lavode]

It mentions that files must be in mp3 or pcm format. Now alot of my music is actually in ogg. First, if it's embeded linux, will there be a means by which we can install other codecs? (say ssh or such.) Second, will there be a supplied means to upgrade the hard drive? (I know you might not need 80gigs for your legal collection but my illegal collections already over that. by far.)

Re:Ogg

[Anonymous Coward]

read the article next time.

One other interesting aspect of the NAS-2.3 is the availability of an empty drive sled inside the box, allowing users or installers to add additional hard drive space.

c'mon

Re:Ogg

[Gyorg_Lavode]

Your right. I posted the part about the hard drive as an after thought to the question about ogg files.

Re:Ogg

[Anonymous Coward]

Ogg sucks.
Eat shit and die motherfucker.

Re:Ogg

[enomar]

Is ssh a new codec I haven't heard of?

Re:Ogg

[technos]

Probably meant shn. Shorten, a lossless music compression scheme.

Re:Ogg

[Gyorg_Lavode]

Heh, meant ssh into the box to update it/etc.

RIAA Sez:

[nfotxn]

If only they would make it record radio, too ...

But recording off the radio could mean the end of the music industry as we know it!!

PCM Digital Out Though?

[Anonymous Coward]

I love the ease of CD's on an HD, but as a semi-audiophile I want something that does uncompressed audio.
The last unit from Integra (Made into an Onkyo brand) also offered digital out but only for MP3s. If you played PCM the digital out turned off! Anyone know if this unit does the same thing?
AFAIK iMerge UK is the only company that has given RIAA the finger and offers PCM digital out, oh, and their players are much cooler but also more expensive.

Recording Radio....

[Penguin2212]

I would question the market viability of a device designed to copy songs from the radio. When you copy a CD that you bought and paid for, you are buying the material on the CD. You are purchasing a copy. When you hear a song on the radio, you are hearing performance of the song. An artist/record company makes money for every copy and performance made. If you buy a CD and copy it (assuming that you don't share it or anything) just to listen to it on a device such as this, you aren't taking any more than what you paid for. But if you copy from the radio, you are. In fact this was the basis for the case against radio stations streaming broadcasts over the internet, because temporary copies of songs were made on the user's hard drive therefore making it a copy. Most of you have probablly heard of that case. Most radio stations have ceased to do so because of this, and are fighting it as well. I'm not trying to defend the RIAA in any way. However, a device that would facilitate copying of music from the radio would definitely come under serious fire from the RIAA, IMHO.

Re:Recording Radio....

[Anonymous Coward]

i hope this is a troll. Haven't you ever made tapes off the radio. Stupid young kids nowadays. jesus

Re:Recording Radio....

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not actually interested in music radio, but shows such as those on NPR, Loveline, etc.

Re:Recording Radio....

[/dev/trash]

The AHRA gives the US population the right to record such music.

Re:Recording Radio....

[gmhowell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like Jack Valenti said that VCR's were going to be like Jack the Ripper. I don't know where you live, but where I am, the quality of the radio broadcast is subpar, and the DJ's speak over the beginning/ending of most songs. I had dozens of mix tapes as a kid courtesy of Kasey Casem's top 40 broadcast. Why shouldn't I now be able to timeshift Cartalk or TOTN?

Re:Recording Radio....

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a joke, right?!!!

comeon people, mod this as funny, not interesting or intriguing or whatever the hell you think it is.

Radio has been recordable for a long ass time. Now because you can make a digital recording of a radio-quality audio signal it's a big deal?

whatever. you know, fuck the RIAA/MPAA and the DRM tech industry and software too. i hope all the jobs go to india and all the technology is useless and we have to pay-per-view for everything we see/read/hear/think about until we're all too poor to fuckin pay for it and then maybe we'll revolt and kill the mother fuckers who are making it this way.

That's right. KILL Disney, since you can't kill Disney, Kill Mike. Kill Hillary. Kill until you are free again.

KILL KILL KILL - when we lose all freedoms we will KILL KILL KILL

until then we'll bitch bitch bitch and people like me will get put on their fuckin black list.

but something tells me AC has been on their list for quite a while, will the ever find out who AC is...

Rendezvous/zeroconf support?

[iJed]

Does this thing support zeroconf?
It would be nice to see one of these new zeroconf enabled TiVo reading its music off one of these.

Re:Rendezvous/zeroconf support?

[mccalli]

It would be nice to see one of these new zeroconf enabled TiVo reading its music off one of these.

Agreed. Additionally, I would like to see Tivo come out with its own device - a Tivo with a CD drive that could rip tracks itself and present them via the normal Tivo menu.

In addition, a 'Treat as audio'-type option could inform Tivo that certain TV recordings should be treated as audio tracks, not TV broadcasts. That covers the case where digital cable supplies a lot of radio stations.

I like Tivo's interface, and would be interested to see them move out slightly beyond their current TV-only remit.

Cheers,
Ian

Input Sources

[Dark Warrior]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see ethernet as one of the input sources. I have that 1400 legal MP3s ripped from my CDs--I'm not sure I want to go thru that again.

Re:Input Sources

[lowdown722]

From the product site: "An Ethernet port lets you connect to a PC to transfer MP3 files and store and sort them as well." That seems to suggest that you can transfer mp3s from PC to the NAS, but it's not explicitly stated. The input sources listed on the product's features site only include Analog In, Optical, and Coaxial. Maybe somebody who works for the company is reading this and could clear it up?

Re:Input Sources

[lameland]

Look at the picture . It has Ethernet, along with:

Modem
USB
VGA

I really doubt that they would go through the trouble of designing this thing and making it one-way only. There has go to be a way to copy mp3s to it. since it has VGA and USB, maybe you can even login to console and set up SSH, etc.

Re:Input Sources

[kwhite]

The piece of equipment they are talking about is nice, but you are right there is no way to move your currently ripped MP3's over, but they have their NetTune(TM) receivers that let you hook up to a network and play music that is on your computer through the internet. Integra (www.integra.com) also does this which is Onkyo's higher end company. Also check out the smaller devices they have for your network that let you run upto twelve smaller receivers so that each room can play different MP3's or internet Radio stations. I have been a big fan of Onkyo for a long time and am saving up to get some of this stuff.

Re:Input Sources

[Dark Warrior]

I looked at the picture. But I also read the specifications. And as I said, it's possible I missed something.

But it is not the case that there has got to be a way to do it. Yes it has the ports, but software must be written to enable input as well as output . . . plug and play not withstanding, you still need drivers.

Interface?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder what the management interface looks like on one of these things. Do they provide software to upload/download/delete files off of it? If so, do they have a Java/Linux version? If not, does the box have an API, so you can write your own software for it? Can you control the device remotely? I would like to be able to control the playing from my pc, and preferable from a Java interface instead of a command line.

I know can get similar functionality using pc hardware, but this looks nicer and just seems proper.

Running gerbilware

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry for the subject line, but that's what I think whenever I see one of these embedded Linux stories--"For all I care it's powered by gerbils running in exercise wheels." Am I happy to see Linux get a little positive press? Sure, but let's not read more into this than it deserves. The rest of the world won't know this thing has "Linux Inside", nor will they care. The Linux crowd should be focused on the real battleground, the desktop, and derailing MS's monopoly.

Re:Running gerbilware

[dmanny]

I certainly was glad that Tivo's were Linux-based. This leads to the possibility of significant hacking. The well developed hacker community for Tivo saved my entire investment in one of my two units.

When a replacement unit that they sent me fell on its ass outside of the 90 days of wartantee they offer, I was able to return it to operation, better than before. Some day I will write up the whole sordid story.

There is a secondary value to getting the Linux OS used in such an embedded fashion, the OS will become more accepted by those who become aware of the OS after the purchase (although I would be very surprised if this device reaches even a fraction of the Tivo user base size).

Anyway, although you may not care that a particular device such as this audio server runs Linux, others certainly do. While we differ in the value of this news item, I think that you and I would find condsiderable common ground in our view of the 800 lb gorilla, M$.

Re:Running gerbilware

[russellh]

I'd like to see a "Linux Inside" campaign, etc., but now that I think about it, "Linus Inside" has better marketing potential.

Re:Running gerbilware

[nolife]

For all I care it's powered by gerbils running in exercise wheels.

It is called Linux advocacy. The more you hear about positive uses of a product, the more common that product becomes which brings on more positive uses. I would guess that over 95% of the non computer geek comunity would care less or even know anything about what gerbilware their computer was currently running had it not been for a strong MS advocacy and PR campaign to push the Windows name.

The Linux crowd should be focused on the real battleground, the desktop, and derailing MS's monopoly.

The embedded market has its own battleground which is just as real as what you want to battle for. Linux is many products to many people. The combination of all of them makes Linux what it is and where it will be later. I know that sounds like something you'd hear in a glorified PR but its true.

Multiple people are working on multiple things in Linux to fill a desired need. People are not being "pulled" away from the desktop to work on an odd side job.

Re:Running gerbilware

[Black_Logic]

That's the most constructive criticism i've
seen of an embedded linux story. I agree that
i'd rather see linux topple the microsoft
monopoly than take over the embedded device
market. But, why doesn't this make an interesting
new story?

Yoko Ono?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone care what Yoko Ono does?

Oh, ONKYO. Sorry...

Re:Yoko Ono?

[KingDaveRa]

Be my, be my, be my, be my, be my Yoko Ono whoah woah woahh. :-D

Speaking of Embedding...

[Anonymous Coward]

I embedded my "Linux" in Timothy's mom's "server" last night, if you know what I mean.

MODS ARE CRAZY

[Anonymous Coward]

They marked a perfectly valid criticism of the plan the same way they would a crapflood about Old Kike. Thanks guys.

No inherent technical problem...

[toupsie]

Is there some inherent technical problem with using an 802.11b device to stream the music?

No. In fact, there is a product on the market that can stream music in three different wireless paths, 802.11b, 802.11g and bluetooth, along with gigabit ethernet. The system uses an open source operating system, you can address it via http, ssh, X11 or you can roll your own access system, its portable, has a fold-out LCD screen and is so thin, it can fit under a typical AV receiver. You can read more about it here.

Re:No inherent technical problem...

[SubtleNuance]

umm, and it sounds like shit.

its not going to sound like your Onkyo reciever will - furhter, its got a HD && fans for lotsa crappy humming noise to f-up your $4000 B&W speakers (or whatever) listening experience.

If there was a way to put a PC in the entertainment center -- and Have it *SOUND* like a good pc of audio kit, we would all do it -- trouble is, a $150 sound card dont cut it.

Re:No inherent technical problem...

[toupsie]

What about USB digital audio? No crappy humming noise like the line-out. I use it all the time for amazing sound.

Redundant hard drives?

[zerofoo]

Of all the "music server" products i've seen on the market, i've yet to see one that has redundant hard drives. Maybe these things haven't been on the market long enough, but eventually the hard drives in these devices will fail, and when they do, there are going to be some very pissed off consumers out there.

Until recently, audio gear manufacturers never had to worry about the storage media. When you bought the music, you bought a hard copy of that media (cd, record, tape...etc). I understand that these devices still require you to purchase the "hard copy" of the music, but do you want to re-rip 500 CDs just because your hard drive went clunk-clunk?

-ted

Re:Redundant hard drives?

[Moofie]

It's on the LAN. Run a cron job to back it up to...whatever. Not a tough problem to solve.

AND it has a second drive sled.

Reading article+creativity=answer to question.

Re:Redundant hard drives?

[zerofoo]

is the availability of an empty drive sled inside the box, allowing users or installers to add additional hard drive space.

No redundancy there...just extra space.

But the NAS-2.3 also has a 10/100 Ethernet port, and is capable of acting as a music server to a network of Net-Tune devices.

Don't know about this...will this feature allow me to access the raw files via the network? If so, then I can do a network backup...if not, then i'm still stuck with no RAID 1 and no way to back up my music

-ted

Re:SEXUAL ASSPUSSY WE LOVE YOU!

[Anonymous Coward]

hi, how's the family ?

-AP

What I'm waiting for...

[sammy.lost-angel.com]

A rendezvous enabled wireless device that ties into my music collection (yes, iTunes). The reality of the situation is, if Apple doesn't release it, we won't see it for at least a year. Well, depending on how the HomePod is made, maybe it could incorporate rendezvous...

Anyone have any home brew devices in the works? Maybe now's the time to start :)

Re:What I'm waiting for...

[seanadams.com]

A rendezvous enabled wireless device that ties into my music collection (yes, iTunes).

Slim Devices probably has what you're looking for. It doesn't use Rendezvous (yet) but does have all the things that Rendezvous has been promising (auto-discovery of server, integration with iTunes). A lot of companies are hawking auto-disocvery like it's some revoultionary technology... ummmmm it's a couple tiny UDP packets in each direction. That's it. We were doing this long before anyone had heard of Rendezvous.

But Rendezvous is evoving into more than that... we recently showed the product at Macworld in San Francisco, and received a very enthusiastic response from the iTunes developers at Apple. They're opening up more of their system to us, so expect to see even better integration with MacOS iApps in our next software updates for the SLIMP3.

BTW, the HomePod is about where we were two years ago. Seriously, they're good guys, and geeks like us, but don't expect them to ship anything for a few more months.

Re:What I'm waiting for...

[mbbac]

There are a few serious problems with your product.

First off, it doesn't have wireless interfaces built into it. You should have a version that can accept an 802.11g card tomorrow. Nowhere that I am going to put this device has a Ethernet port close-by. Living room? No. Master bedroom? No.

Secondly, it is ugly. This means it won't be allowed in the living room or bedroom so even if it had wireless capability without a dongle, I couldn't use it anywhere I wouldn't already have a computer.

Protocol Specs?

[Rick Richardson]

Has anybody found a link for the protocol specifications? I looked around on the Onkyo site and didn't find them.

Ethernet is great, but not if I have to reverse engineer the protocol in order to serve music to the receiver.

[meta] Re:does it matter what OS it's running?

[Anonymous Hack]

I understand getting tired of people here, but you gotta know that's your problem and not theirs. People have a right to post their opinion here. A lot of people know by posting "anti" opinions they get the opportunity to be "modded up" - it's just a game to them, and there's nothing you can do. Upping your threshold doesn't really help because trolls get modded up and a lot of good comments come too late to be modded at all. I read at 0 and just zoom down my scrollwheel until something catches my attention that looks interesting.

I don't think there's really a solution other than to move on. Either put up with it here, or go somewhere else where the conversation is more intelligent. Unfortunately i'm not sure many other sites online have this kind of feel to them. OpenBSD Journal can be nice, but a lot of foul-mouthed children have turned up recently. kuro5hin used to be okay, but in my eyes it's gotten way too clique-y and faux intellectual for me. A friend of mine loves InfoAnarchy but that's very specific to "Your Rights Online" kind of posts. I don't know, i don't have any solutions. For the time being i pop in here every day or two and see what's going on. Whatever, you know? It's just a website.

I agree

[lpret]

This is nothing more than a simple "I agree" . I think that many times we get carried away with trying to "protect" rights we've never had, like taping the radio, which may have been tolerated in the past, we're now realizing is quite illegal, as you pointed out quite well in distinguishing it as a performance. I think a more rational approach such as yours is needed to make sure that we do get our digital media however we want.

Re:I agree

[/dev/trash]

What???? Ever hear of the AHRA?

How about iTunes/iPod for PlayStation2?

[CreateWindowEx]

It could copy MP3s from iTunes over the broadband adapter or firewire(?) to optional PS2 hard-disk, and also stream internet radio over the BBA... I know there's a PS2 app out there that streams media from a computer, but it'd be cooler if I didn't have to have my computer on to listen to MP3s or internet radio through my AV system...

The Xbox definitely has all the hardware bits to make an awesome media box (ethernet adapter, reasonable sound output, big hard disk, available remote control), but Microsoft seems much more restrictive than Sony in letting developers access the ports... (on PS2 you can pretty much write any USB device driver you like, but on Xbox you can't talk to anything but Xboxes or Microsoft servers via the ethernet...)

There is a reason they choose Linux . .

[MrLinuxHead]

Onkyo is smart for using Linux. Nearly all the Pacific Rim (Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, ect.) manufacturers are testing it or are ready to deploy because they don't need to pay out royalties per unit, can share innovations with each other, and can share data with each other's units over 100Mb Ethernet or 802.11x or whatever. The most important thing to remember is they don't need to spend huge amounts on R&D. Linux will become the Linga Franca of consumer electronics, unless Microsoft buys one of the big players and twists everyone's arm to go along. Maybe not even then, as the long term gains are too big. And most Japanese electronics manufacturers are thinking very long term.

And yes these babies are BIG! And HEAVY! At 110 RMS per CH. Thats 660 Watts out, all discrete. No output IC's. Not to mentions pre amp and video switching. Schwweett.

Inputs:

Audio and AV Inputs - 3/6

HDTV-Ready Component Video Input/Output - 2/1

Front-Panel Video Input (with S-Video) - Yes

S-Video Compatible Jacks Input/Output - 6/3

Digital Inputs:

5 Optical (1 Front Panel), 3 Coaxial

Digital Output - 2 Optical Amp In

RS-232 Control Port

IR In/Out - 1/1

Re:There is a reason they choose Linux . .

[MrLinuxHead]

I mean 770 watts. (110 x 7) I sometimes see the rear channels as one. This is real 7.1

Re:There is a reason they choose Linux . .

[abimelech]

Your specs seem to refer to the TX-NR900 reciever. This does not run Linux, it merely plays music from a network connection. I don't think Linux is required for such basic functionality.

http://www.imerge.co.uk/products/improductsimage s/ downloadphotos0901/S2000/S2000row34.jpg

The Integra NAS-2.3 Net-Tune Server is the Linux based product. It's actually a rebranded Imerge product, from the UK. You can control the server via a TV, Monitor, PC, Palm, IR Pronto etc... Check out the LCD, it's just a bog standard LCD display used by many case modders - not a custom built VFD display as found on most hifi components.

Re:There is a reason they choose Linux . .

[shepd]

660 Watts, eh?

Better make sure it has it's own electrical circuit, and I'd say that the power cord is FAR too low of a gauge to handle the 1000 or so Watts of household power it'll take to drive that much into your speakers consistently. ;-)

Net-Tune details?

[__david__]

Onkyo's site says the ethernet hookup thing uses "Net-Tune". They offer Windows Net-Tune software on their site, but only if you have one of their boxes. Does anyone know anything about this Net-Tune? Anyone reverse engineer this yet? I have done some google searches but I haven't found anything worthwhile yet...

I've spent a substantial amount of time getting all my cd's onto my linux server (240 gigs worth! (flacs, not mp3s)). If I could get my machine to spew out my music using the Net-Tune protocol, Onkyo just might get some of my money! :-)

-David

Re:Net-Tune details?

[Anonymous Coward]

I own an TX-NR900 and have the Net-Tune software. No I haven't reverse engineered the software or the protocol, but if you're interested in making an attempt send me an email. aws6000@hotmail.com

me

[Anonymous Coward]

I have 75G of legal mp3s at 160kbps. Over 1000 songs off 1200 albums.

Yes, it does cost a lot to accumulate so much music.

Dumb question: Is this a violation of the GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

If there is GPL'd software included in the Onkyo hardware, is a violation of the GPL not to include acessible source in this distribution?

Onkyo and Sansui in the 80's

[trasgu]

Sansui and Onkyo were renowned in the 80's for low-low-low-distortion amps and high-end recievers. This company has been in the consumer-audiophile business for a long time. I remember touch-sensitive controls and FM lock WAAAY before these things became maintsream. It doesnt surprise me that they are "pioneering" new ideas in consumer A/V appliances.

Dennis

Re:Onkyo and Sansui in the 80's

[NineNine]

Onkyo, high end? Maybe not now, because they're always the el-cheapo brand that the drones at Circuit City are always pushing. The few Onkyo components I've owned have all been bottom of the barrel when it comes to quality.

Re:Onkyo and Sansui in the 80's

[arrogance]

The Integra brand, which is Onkyo's, is totally high end. They made awesome amps in the 80's (always great reviews in the audiophile mags) and now are leaders in the home automation field: lots of rs 232 support, ethernet, etc. I know they've got some lower end stuff too, which works, but i've got some better stuff from 1985 that still works great (well, some of the pots need to be cleaned, but the sound is still crystal clear.)

Re:Onkyo and Sansui in the 80's

[smithmc]

He said "high-end receivers". Clearly, there's a whole market above the typical home all-in-one receiver - true top-end separates can cost a couple of orders of magnitude more than anything Onkyo makes. But in the "normal-people" market, yes, I think Onkyo makes pretty decent stuff. (And for "normal people with more money", there's the Integra line which competes against the Sony ES and Pioneer Elite stuff.) I've owned Onkyo equipment since back in college, and I've never had a component fail or deliver anything less than good sound. (And I used to beat on my gear, let me tell you.)

Please market this in the UK too!

[Morgaine]

Integra + Onkyo, please market this in the UK!

At last a networked digital audio recording and storage device that actually looks like a proper piece of hifi gear for the rack in the lounge.

While there are several units along these lines on the market now, they haven't really respected the basic ergonomic and stylistic standards for hifi separates in the modern home until now. This product seems to be the closest so far --- I want one, purchaseable here with a UK warranty! :-)

Anyone know how the disc is formatted?

[woobieman29]

From the article:

You can't use a standard, PC-formatted hard drive, according to Eric Harper, Integra's Custom Installation and Product Manager. The formatting is somewhat different, but a knowledgeable user or installer should be able to add another drive to the server.

Anyone know which format is used? I wonder if when they say you can't use a PC standard format, that maybe they really mean you cannot use FAT/VFAT/NTFS?? I certainly hope it is something standard so that you won't have to buy a second/replacement drive from Onkyo - I would imagine that their prices for a drive with a proprietary format would be much more expensive than a standard drive.

Looks pretty cool otherwise....I can definitely attest to the fact that Onkyo makes very solid audio gear. I have an older Onkyo receiver that I have had for almost 10 years, and I'm still impressed by the sound quality.

Why get this???

[Anonymous Coward]

when you can get the same thing with a nice Amp/preamp + an audiotron? and the audiotron uses STANDARD communications protocols...

this onkyo thing will be a flop and is a piece of crap.

if I have to load ANY software on my computer to use it... it is 100% crap.

so can anyone tell me why is it that only turtle beach is the only compnay without their heads firmly planeted up their asses in these devices?? make it play the mp3/wav/wma(ick... remove wma they suck) in the frigging box, make it act like a regular SMB computer device and it will make everyone from windows-linux-mac-os2-Be happy.

the audiotron isnt' fantastic, but at least it's not some lame attempt at locking down your life like these things continue to be.

Hey Onkyo.. I will reccomend to EVERYONE on this planet to not buy your product until you make it work WITHOUT any "special software" until thenn you guys are no-talent hacks... get out of the computer arena.

Onkyo NET-Tune supported formats & data rates

[martijnd]

Animated (Flash) diagram demonstrating their home music network (Net-Tune) system :

http://www.net-tune.net

From the Onkyo FAQ:

While WAV, WMA, MP3 are supported formats, there are many variations of these. Please check that the bitrates used are compatible and if certain files will not play back, check the following: * The file must not be saved in a system folder, such as C:\Windows or C:\WINNT. * WMA file contains Digital Rights Management (DRM) which prevents reproduction on other devices. * The WAV file is not in RIFFWAVE format or is corrupt. Format Bitrate Sampling Frequency WAV(PCM) ---- 32k/44.1k/48kHz MP3 All 32k/44.1k/48kHz WMA 32/36/40/44/48/64/80/96/128/160/192bps 32k/44.1k/48kHz

Further, it uses DHCP to get an IP address. And needs ports 60096,60097. But that is of course all useless information until I actually find one of these machines.

Integra *is* a UK product.

[abimelech]

The Integra is really a rebadged Imerge product, who are based in Cambridge. It is known as the SoundServer S2000 - http://www.imerge.co.uk/products/improductshtml/ip main.html

Of course, there may be some functional difference, but otherwise they look identical. Costs £1599 - AS this is Slashdot, I bet most people would just build their own audio server PC and slap in a nice sound card (M-Audio Delta 410 audio card offers slightly better specification) and with some interesting software, you could have a relatively cheap multi-room audio server which supports say, OGG Vorbis, APE, SHN, etc.

It doesn't matter to me in the least

[NineNine]

It doesn't matter to me in the least. Onkyo makes some of the shittiest components I've ever used. I had a CD changer fail within 3 years, an amp fail within 5 years, and the sound quality coming out of even their "high end" models sucks ass. Onkyo could be running a full graphical interface of OSX, and I still wouldn't buy another one of their products. They make Sony look good by comparison.

Wonderful...

[Cygnus v1]

..another beautiful audio server that I won't think of buying because it doesn't support Vorbis. And it only supports MP3 at 2 CBR bitrates (128, 320kbps) and 192kbps VBR.

NAS Video out?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did anyone look at the rear of the Network Audio Server.. It has S-Video out.. now, this creates some more interesting possibilities.. does this thing have On Screen browsing of MP3's? - do you reckon it could be upgraded to play back Mpeg4 video content.

If that were the case.. I would buy one tomorrow. Playing .avi's off my Mac, or from the internal harddrive, or off the inernal CD player.. That's the convergence I am looking for (while I wait for BroadQ to release a PAL version...

Rendezvous?

[mbbac]

If it supported Rendezvous, I might care about it. It doesn't appear to, so I don't.

I don't want to rip all of my CDs into a box in my living room. I want to rip them into my home server and then stream and download them to different devices around my house.

Dagbladet.no has a story on it

[Anonymous Coward]

if you can read Norwegian, else I am sure a Nordmann will translate...

Re:they must be rich - or canadian.

[SubtleNuance]

I know a guy from college who worked at a *LIBRARY*. He was about 22 years old and had well over a thousand CDs.


if your Canadian, you can LEGALLY copy Audio CDs. Your CDR blanks have a tax that goes DIRECTLY to some RIAA-whore group -- in exchange, you can copy any CD you please for yourself...

so, go on down to the library with your burner and have at it.

Screw Ethernet - should've gone with Wifi

[Subotai]

Too bad they didn't put a PCMCIA slot in there so I could stick a WIFI card in. THen I wouldn't have to run ethernet back to where my entertainment closet is.

CD "Copy Protection"

[Anonymous Coward]

If this device has a computer CD-ROM drive (which it does more than likely), I wonder how long it takes until purchasers of Cactus Data Shield and other "protected" CDs start to return their CDs or Onky devices. These drives have a hard time reading (or better still: ignoring) the invalid ToCs of these CDs, which in turn do not comply with the Orange Book standard.

BTW, I've seen at least one BMG album (CD100 "protected") which does not have the "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo. Wonder if they are doing that to prevent people from complaining ("hey, we don't even claim this is a CD!").

Also cool ...

[Greedo]

What the article doesn't mention, but you can find by digging around for screenshots, is that the back panel has not only ethernet outputs, but a VGA, USB and modem connections.

Dunno how useful the modem would be, but it sounds like you could probably hook-up a USB keyboard and monitor, and get a shell on this device.

clunky, but you could *make* it wireless ...

[timothy]

with a wireless bridge, like the ones that linksys makes. Maybe others do too, but the the linksys ones I've seen on sale for (iirc) about $70, which is not much different from current pricing on wireless PCMCIA cards ...

timothy

other-other sources

[EvilStein]

* Buy used CDs from Rasputin's Records, just make sure they're fairly new and in good shape.
* Go to The Wherehouse
* Take advantage of old policy and manager that your brother sells pot to and exchange used CDs that suck for new CDs that you want. ....profit! Well, have lots of CDs, anyway. That's how I made my CD collection. Now, everything has been ripped to mp3 and the original CDs are in a box in storage. I got tired of having them get scratched/stolen/lost.

The Wherehouse also had a policy of accepting any coupon from other stores. One summer we found a big pile of "3 free movie rental" coupons.

I don't think that I left the house all freekin summer, and boy, did we see a lot of crappy movies.

You might already have this!

[RMH101]

Assuming you've already got a big ass hard drive full of tunes sitting on a pc in your house (hands up?) then I think you'd be better off with QCast Tuner for your PS2. Your PS2's already hooked up to your hifi, right? Stick this on it and add a network card and you can use your PS2 as a media player over ethernet from your PC. Alternately, if Onkyo added a Kazaa Lite client to it...If this is running a form of Linux is it practical to add this?

"ExtremeTech"?

[Anonymous Coward]

If that site is so extreme why are they using ASP?

An Audiotron and your computer make more sense

[GlobalEcho]

These countless manufacturers making home audio MP3 devices with integrated hard drives are missing the point: you want a single point of storage in your house for MP3's, or you are going to have chaos.

Networks are not just for web-browsing. They're also for sharing files, like those MP3's. And if you're going to have them somewhere, you might as well have them on your PC where:
(1) You can rip with that expensive Athlon or PPC processor using LAME
(2) There exist myriad MP3 control tools like id3tool and mp3gain
(3) Your portable MP3 player hooks up
(4) You may be downloading files from mp3.com or other places
(5) [Important] You have a chance of keeping the hard drive and fan whines away from your audio equipment

Thus, you want the home audio component you buy to simply get its music off the network. Audiotron and SLiMP3 do just that, which makes them the only reasonable such devices.

Between them, I prefer the Audiotron because it has digital output, which means I can use the expensive DAC in my receiver rather than the cheap one in the unit. The SLiMP3 is impressively flexible, though!

Re:Can it... - be a linux computer?

[Anonymous Coward]

It has a hard disk, networking, usb and a VGA/tv out and runs embedded linux.

Does this mean you can hook this to your tv and use it as a linux computer?

Mpeg/divx playback anyone?

where to buy?

[Peartree]

I never saw a link or any info on where/how to buy one...

Compression isn't bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Compression isn't the problem.

CDs (and more: AIFF) was designed in 1980/81 when CD's were being come up with. Computers were a roaring 1MHz (I still have a working Apple ][+), DSP's were primitive by today's standards. Anything that played music had to be able to stream pairs of 16 bit samples at 44.1kHz and spew it out the audio channels.
There wasn't a lot of room to do math on that data.

With 2GHz processors available, and ASICs that can be tuned for a single algorithm for even more processing, we can compress the hell out of sound.

No, your issue is lossy compression.

The proprietary (ok, "non-free") mp3 algorithm makes some compromises. Losing data above 20Khz and below 30Hz isn't much of an issue. Well, it's an issue for the same fools who spend $50 on Monster speaker cable when all the high end ($15k+) installers I know use zip cord/lampcord. An oscilloscope can tell the difference, maybe a discerning dog. That's about it.

Lossy MP3's are just fine with most players even. Small radio's, cars, other relatively innaccurate environments won't ever hear the difference. But cause I'm an ex-sound guy, I rip at 192 and above.

Speaking things (meeting, etc) are fine at 64Mb/s. A 128Mb/s through 6000 Watts of good PA system doesn't sound as good as a CD. But I've also found that Joe Laptop has pretty miserable audio outputs, so I use a Roland UA-5 and digital transfers.

For the compulsive, I'd offer that Reel-Reel is STILL far better than CD quality.

[I haven't checked out the (sony proprietary?) SA-CD, but it seems more like a desperate move by the manufacturers to do their churn on media. CD's have been around 20 years, where cassettes were leading for only 15 years and 8 tracks died out after only 10 years or so. Manufacturers must be dying with people using players that are 12 years old and just fine.]

Are very high sample rates "Good Enough"?
I dunno. I would offer that a lot of popular music out there doesn't really have much dynamic range (difference between the loudest parts and quietest parts). FM radio broadcasts don't have much fidelity at all (from an argument with someone who insisted on burning FM recordings to CD as AIFF rather than just MP3'ing them).

I'd be delighted to see an algorithm that had a "compress like hell (lots of math), but don't LOSE DATA". If there's 2 seconds of an unvarying note (more likely from a synth than a voice or analog instrument), then it can be stored as "play this list of tones for 2 seconds". Encode a horizontal line in GIF and you get the notion.

Maybe a best answer is actually recording the tracks in the studio digitally (which they do) and encoding them with a notion that of the 24 tracks, many of them never need become analog (synths, etc) and can be stored in a better manner from the start.

Re:SEXUAL ASSPUSSY WE LOVE YOU!

[Anonymous Coward]

I hear otherwise. You should know we can check your IP.

Re:Who still buys cd?

[cbrese]

Whoever moderated this as flamebait must like wasting money on cd's. Can you send me some money too? I'd really like to understand why anyone would waste more the $2 on a cd. I say screw the record companies, I'm not giving them any more of my money. Some times I download music I haven't payed for, but not very often. I'm really losing interest in new music. I mostly just listen old cd's I've ripped on to my computer. I do put them up on gnutella sometimes though. I can't wait to hear about a major record company going out of business. Hopefully it will happen in the next couple of years.

The good question is

[Nawak]

Will I have access to source/documentation to customize this linux?
If not, I think this kind of item would be frustrating as I am likely to end up with a dream of doing something totally different with this embedded computer...

You know, some networked remote control for it for instance... arg... must... stop... thinking!

Last Post!

[alpg]

This is an especially good time for you vacationers who plan to fly, because
the Reagan administration, as part of the same policy under which it
recently sold Yellowstone National Park to Wayne Newton, has "deregulated"
the airline industry. What this means for you, the consumer, is that the
airlines are no longer required to follow any rules whatsoever. They can
show snuff movies. They can charge for oxygen. They can hire pilots right
out of Vending Machine Refill Person School. They can conserve fuel by
ejecting husky passengers over water. They can ram competing planes in
mid-air. These innovations have resulted in tremendous cost savings which
have been passed along to you, the consumer, in the form of flights with
amazingly low fares, such as $29. Of course, certain restrictions do apply,
the main one being that all these flights take you to Newark, and you must
pay thousands of dollars if you want to fly back out.
-- Dave Barry, "Iowa -- Land of Secure Vacations"

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...

Re:Last Post!

[Nawak]

Last post???

Your script is waaay too optimistic about the 'archiving' time...