LGP Announces Game Development Team

Cool... by thx2001r · 2003-03-18 06:26 · Score: 1

Adventure games?

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-Joe
If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr

Re:Cool... by Randolpho · 2003-03-18 06:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

Yes! I second this wholeheartedly!!!!1!11!!!!!!

I miss old-skool graphic adventures. Sure, go 3D if ya gotta, but stick to the gameplay similar to, say, the old Sierra *Quest series.

And remember... Story, Graphics, Story, Gameplay, Story!

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"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
-Marilyn Manson
Re:Cool... by thx2001r · 2003-03-18 06:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

Yep,

And, hey, if they MUST use first person, why not a first person multi-player game WITH a story... imagine king's quest first person where you walk around a 3d environment... what if you took your friends along with you for the quest? That way you can chat with them and you can all cooperatively solve problems / puzzles / decide on things?

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-Joe
If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr
Re:Cool... by Mr.Happy3050 · 2003-03-18 06:40 · Score: 1

Homer: How about a prequel to something. Everybody loves a prequel.

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"All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
Re:Cool... by FortKnox · 2003-03-18 06:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

I agree that the old *Quest games rule (personal fav is Heros Quest, or "Quest for Glory" as it used to be called), however, it was found that adventure games simply don't sell anymore. There was a sharp decline in adventure game sales as soon as FPS became popular.

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Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Re:Cool... by mmol_6453 · 2003-03-18 06:48 · Score: 1

Like EverCrack with puzzles? What are you trying to do to the world?!

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What's this Submit thingy do?
Re:Cool... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 07:08 · Score: 0

You have that backwards. I was originally called Hero's Quest, and it was changed to Quest for Glory (trademark conflict with a board game, or something like that).
Re:Cool... by FortKnox · 2003-03-18 07:11 · Score: 1

Whoops, you're right. Sorry about that. Yeah, milton bradley had a "Hero's Quest" board game and got the trademark on it before the game was released (but didn't file suit until after the game released), so they changed the name.

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Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Re:Cool... by thx2001r · 2003-03-18 07:20 · Score: 1

Of course! I'd give it away for free first (until you're hooked) then slowly phase in a subscription and get the recurring paypal payments until I retire and buy an island!

But really, I think it would actually be cool to explore multiplayer as a problem solving game... It'd be like the SourceForge of games.

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-Joe
If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr
Re:Cool... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 07:29 · Score: 0

Story, Graphics, Story, Gameplay, Story!

Amen! Did anyone here ever play Darklands? Circa 1992 I believe. The game really had no point...only venture through medieval germany and do good or evil deeds. Still my favorite game to date. The storyline was so incredibly rich, and the history was fantastic. However, the best parts of the game were the text-based parts. Kind of like a "choose your own adventure" thing. I miss that game dearly, and if anyone can tell me where I can buy it I'd be in your debt.
Re:Cool... by k-0s · 2003-03-18 07:40 · Score: 1

This what is REALLY needed for Linux to grow into the mainstream market. Office applications, graphic manipulation programs and internet programs are all fine and dandy but games for the most part push the software market these days. All it's going to take is a couple good games like a Doom/Qauke/Wolfenstein, Counter Strike or Unreal to start pushing common people toward Linux.

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Visit www.seriouslythough.com
Re:Cool... by mmol_6453 · 2003-03-18 10:55 · Score: 1

VRML could have done that...I'd like to see some web-based games ala VRML. That might be interesting...

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What's this Submit thingy do?

No game ideas yet! by Gortbusters.org · 2003-03-18 06:27 · Score: 1

From the article, they don't appear to have any game ideas yet... I only hope they come up with something good.

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Free your mind.

Re:No game ideas yet! by dreamchaser · 2003-03-18 06:31 · Score: 4, Interesting

Maybe we should help! Perhaps an approach similar to how we pick interview questions: take the top ten moderated ideas and send them the link!

Of course, they may have some vague ideas already. Personally, I'd like to see something combining the storyline of a good RPG with the action of a good FPS. Open ended would be nice, something like Privateer or Freelancer but in a fantasy or military setting rather than as a space sim.
Re:No game ideas yet! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 07:04 · Score: 0

Storyline of a good RPG? What, like we all ride our unicorns to Riverdale and fight evil troll lord Gorfndorf?

I've seen better storylines on the back of "My little pony" boxes.
Re:No game ideas yet! by t0ny · 2003-03-18 07:15 · Score: 0

I heard they will be doing the Linux port of "Gravy Trader" once it comes out.

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Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
Re:No game ideas yet! by Saeger · 2003-03-18 13:31 · Score: 1

Personally, I'd like to see something combining the storyline of a good RPG with the action of a good FPS.
Morrowind on steroids then?
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Power to the Peaceful
Re:No game ideas yet! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 14:37 · Score: 0

Morrowind isn't a FPS.
Re:No game ideas yet! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-19 03:46 · Score: 0

Try Morrowind! (I've no clue if you could get it to run under Linux, though.) But it's a great RPG and is very open ended.
Re:No game ideas yet! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-19 05:42 · Score: 0

Like Deus Ex was an FPS with a RPG-ish story?

Good Luck by FortKnox · 2003-03-18 06:29 · Score: 4, Insightful

Good luck competing in todays PC gaming market (hope you have the cash to buy a good game engine instead of taking the time to make one from scratch).
Remember, graphics and wizbangs are what makes the sale, but plot and fun is what makes a game outlast time.

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Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!

Re:Good Luck by thx2001r · 2003-03-18 06:33 · Score: 1

Well, fortunately for the people in the project, many of the good game engines out there originated from the work of people like them (that started from scratch).

And who knows, maybe they'll even develop some kind of new game genre that is better than recycling the game engines everyone else licenses or clones (ahem, FPS, can we come up with a new genre?).

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-Joe
If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr
Re:Good Luck by blitzoid · 2003-03-18 06:34 · Score: 5, Informative

There are some good game engines out there that are cheap.

For instance, Torque, the engine Tribes 2 is based on, is available for $100 dollars. And in addition to that, you can test it out a bit beforehand. It works with Windows, Mac, and Linux. Not every game engine costs several hundred thousand dollars.

And last time I checked, Tribes 2 didn't look too amateurish or cheaply made.

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I am a filthy pirate.
Re:Good Luck by FortKnox · 2003-03-18 06:37 · Score: 1

you can test it out a bit beforehand

By test it out, do you mean play with it, or can you play with the code?

Honestly, I think the Torque engine is excellent for breaking into the industry, but if I had the financial backing, I'd go for the Havok engine.

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Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Re:Good Luck by garcia · 2003-03-18 06:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

but plot and fun is what makes a game outlast time.

Wow, I still have my 21 year old Ms. Pacman machine. There's no plot. There's no graphics. Yet it somehow stands the test of time (also the fact that they recently re-released it in conjunction w/another arcade classic).
Re:Good Luck by Osty · 2003-03-18 06:56 · Score: 2, Insightful

And who knows, maybe they'll even develop some kind of new game genre that is better than recycling the game engines everyone else licenses or clones (ahem, FPS, can we come up with a new genre?).

A game engine is just that -- an engine. Quake, Unreal, etc don't have to be used in FPS games (witness Anachronox, Splinter Cell). I think it's unfair to think of these engines as FPS engines, because they're not -- they are 3D world engines, and can be used by developers to do whatever they can imagine (within the limits of modern hardware and any artificially imposed limits of the engine, though many of those can be removed).

As for coming up with new genres, do you have any ideas? In the past 10-ish years, we've seen only a few genres arise -- FPS, RTS, MMOG (that's more a meta-genre, with categories like MMORPG, MMOSS, MMOFPS, etc). Two or three genres in a decade is pretty damned good.
Re:Good Luck by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 06:58 · Score: 0

That'd be the 'fun' factor
Re:Good Luck by thx2001r · 2003-03-18 07:08 · Score: 1

Ok then, how about a new game genre. One with a story (by the way, a story is not, 20 online friends walk into a room to kill a monster or each other) maybe?

It seems that with these ridiculously fast graphics cards out there a move towards games that are like being immersed in the *story* not just visual effects and sound effects of a movie would be possible.

I guess the types of games we have reflect the times and how kids are these days (with very short attention spans)... Games are very much about doing something and getting an instant payoff right now (walk into a room, see something or someone, shoot and kill them (it's not even important why you're shooting and killing them anymore other than they are the "bad guys").

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-Joe
If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr
Re:Good Luck by Osty · 2003-03-18 07:56 · Score: 2, Interesting

I guess the types of games we have reflect the times and how kids are these days (with very short attention spans)... Games are very much about doing something and getting an instant payoff right now (walk into a room, see something or someone, shoot and kill them (it's not even important why you're shooting and killing them anymore other than they are the "bad guys").

You know, I don't think this criticism is correct. Look at games like Pac-Man, Asteroids, or even Nethack. They're all quick, short-attention-span games (get in, play a couple games, get out, you've only wasted 15 minutes). Now compare that to games like Half-Life, Max Payne, Halo, Deus Ex, the Thief series, the System Shock series, and so on. You're lucky if you can really get much done in an hour's play time with these games. They have story, they have plot, they have atmosphere, and they have action. They're not "twitch" games with short attention span.

I think the thing to realize is that games, like all other media (books, movies, music), are about 80% shit to 20% cream. The NES had something over 500 games (and I'm sure that's a low guess), but how many of them do you really remember as being good (because some terrible games are memorable for being terrible)? Maybe 100, if you're really thinking about it. Same thing for PC games. Do you remember all of the Doom clones? How about the Wolf3D clones (and yes, there were several)? Or what about all of the different Quake clones? Of course not. You remember the games that were good. Things only seem worse right now because you haven't had sufficient time to weed out the good from the crap, and forget the crap.
Re:Good Luck by SquadBoy · 2003-03-18 07:58 · Score: 1

I don't know because I don't know much about 3d engines but how does Crystal Space stand up?

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Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
Re:Good Luck by robi2106 · 2003-03-18 08:03 · Score: 1

Torque has got to have one of the more compelling liscensing plans I have heard of. That and the game can kick in some great fogging, lighting and textures (given the beefy hardware). I remember loading up Tribes 2 on the same machine I had Tribes1. I couldn't even run it in hardware (ok so Tribes2 didn't like my 3dfx card's API). It took a full system upgrade to play that game. Granted, that was an upgrade to a GF2 and a 7200RPM ata100 hard drive from an ATA66 5400rpm.

I would like to see a Tribes engine game. That engine has many more miles left on it.

robi
Re:Good Luck by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 08:06 · Score: 0

Ms Pacman does have a plot. It has nothing to do with the gameplay.

Act 1: They Meet
Act 2: The Chase
etc.
Re:Good Luck by thx2001r · 2003-03-18 08:13 · Score: 1

Okey dokey, but I'm still talking about story in a game.

Well, kids with short attention spans also watch TV for hours on end (and in a row)... the fact that they are on the surface doing only one thing (watching TV) doesn't make it an activity that doesn't cater to people with short attention spans. TV shows are constantly broken up into manageable pieces for such people, then even more manageably sized commercials.

I think many of these games are very similar in a lot of respects. They allow people to finish smaller goals very quickly so they don't lose their attention span. When a task is huge (like the end of Final Fantasy X) instead of one 30 minute fight, it is a bunch of very short fights against smaller segments of the monster or whatever is being slain.

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-Joe
If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr
Re:Good Luck by msimm · 2003-03-18 09:16 · Score: 1

Not exactly the test of time as you might be alluding to. More like sentimentality and nostalgia.

But be honest, Pacman was wizbang and graphics!

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Quack, quack.
Re:Good Luck by msimm · 2003-03-18 09:24 · Score: 1

Your are right on the money!

Check out Mechina. Its based on Tribes 2 (ala Torque) and its absolutely amazing.

This would be a great place to start. Models, mapping and scripting are already done, which would leave the rewrite and conversion. Its just begging to be its own game.

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Quack, quack.
Re:Good Luck by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 09:44 · Score: 0

totally, just like in tetris' deep and convoluted plot, where funny shaped blocks fall from nowhere, and then ten "lines" later, fall faster, and then ten "lines" later, fall faster, ..., and then ten "lines later, fall faster, and then the "screen" fills up and the "game" "over"s and the "player" kicks in the "screen" and demands his "quarter" "back".
Re:Good Luck by garcia · 2003-03-18 09:46 · Score: 1

no. the game play is far more fun than any modern game.
Re:Good Luck by msimm · 2003-03-18 09:51 · Score: 1

Keep telling yourself that. ;-)

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Quack, quack.
Re:Good Luck by Tomun · 2003-03-18 11:47 · Score: 1

I don't know either but planeshift is looking quite good these days.
Re:Good Luck by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 11:58 · Score: 0

I believe the Quake II engine is GPLed.
Re:Good Luck by macshit · 2003-03-18 11:59 · Score: 1

You know, I don't think this criticism is correct. Look at games like Pac-Man, Asteroids, or even Nethack. They're all quick, short-attention-span games (get in, play a couple games, get out, you've only wasted 15 minutes).

Hmmm, it's clear you've never played nethack... (get in, play a couple of games, get out, and you've only wasted 6 months)

Now compare that to games like Half-Life, Max Payne, Halo, Deus Ex, the Thief series, the System Shock series, and so on. You're lucky if you can really get much done in an hour's play time with these games. They have story, they have plot, they have atmosphere, and they have action.

... just like nethack. :-)

[Really, I don't mean to sound obnoxious, but seeing nethack lumped in with pacman as a `twitch' game was almost surreal...]

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We live, as we dream -- alone....
Re:Good Luck by Osty · 2003-03-18 12:10 · Score: 1

Really, I don't mean to sound obnoxious, but seeing nethack lumped in with pacman as a `twitch' game was almost surreal...

The point I meant to make about nethack is that there's really not much of a story, and it's a game that you can sit down and play for 15 minutes and still get in two or three games (doesn't mean you will only play for 15 minutes, just that you can). I'm sure I just suck at roguelikes, but my average lifespan tends to be in the 5-10 minute range. Sometimes I get lucky (or I cheat) and get to play as the same character for 30 minutes to an hour, but little longer :). In that sense, it's a "short attention span" game, because it doesn't take long to get in, kill some stuff, and die. Like Pac-Man, it does take a long time to win (or "win", since Pac-Man doesn't really have an end goal other than points).
Re:Good Luck by R0 · 2003-03-18 12:24 · Score: 1

But LGP aren't pro-gpl. They haven't sold anything (afaik) that is totaly free software. (they do contribute to some free software though.)
Re:Good Luck by SurfsUp · 2003-03-18 14:07 · Score: 1

Good luck competing in todays PC gaming market (hope you have the cash to buy a good game engine instead of taking the time to make one from scratch).

Check out neoengine out. It's already a good engine, and getting better. The main author is a pro who makes his living doing character animation, so mesh animation isn't in the code base. But you can add it, and I suppose the author will take it, and if not, that's ok too.

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Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Re:Good Luck by robson · 2003-03-18 16:21 · Score: 1

... if I had the financial backing, I'd go for the Havok engine.

Unless something's changed recently, the Havok engine is solely for physics. (Not that this fact would preclude you from using it if you had financial backing ;)
Re:Good Luck by Deusy · 2003-03-18 21:50 · Score: 1

Why pay for a 3d engine when you can get them for free?

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Free Gamer - Free games list and commentary
Re:Good Luck by Deusy · 2003-03-18 21:53 · Score: 1

Oops, messed up there... meant to include Crystal Space too.

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Free Gamer - Free games list and commentary

Penguin turds by shlong · 2003-03-18 06:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

Hey team: no penguins in your game, okay?
Amen brother!

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Cat, the other, tastier white meat.

Re:Penguin turds by Gortbusters.org · 2003-03-18 06:41 · Score: 1

Hey now, Tux racer is fun for the whole family!

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Free your mind.
Re:Penguin turds by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 06:45 · Score: 0

You responded to comment by michael, but your sig says you've been free of him...
confused_acs++;
Re:Penguin turds by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 07:04 · Score: 0

Hey now, Tux racer is fun for the whole family!
-the problem with things that are fun for the whole family is thier realy, realy gay
Re:Penguin turds by RLiegh · 2003-03-18 07:12 · Score: 1

Personally, I'm hoping for "Beasty Racer"...
(/me runs for the hills, laughing maniacally)
Re:Penguin turds by liquidsin · 2003-03-18 07:14 · Score: 3, Funny

My Slashdot surfing has been Michael-free since 10/04/2002. What a difference it makes!

Erm....this story was posted by Michael...and the comment about a penguin-free game that you're applauding was added by Michael too...

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do not read this line twice.
Re:Penguin turds by shlong · 2003-03-18 07:18 · Score: 1

What can I say.... the article showed up in a Slashbox, and I didn't look close enough at the byline. =-)

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Cat, the other, tastier white meat.

Hopefully not Linux versions of... by L0stb0Y · 2003-03-18 06:30 · Score: 3, Insightful

...all those microsoft.com games that EVERY PERSON IN MY OFFICE SEEMS TO PLAY...

Bespelled, Bejeweled....hell, I was starting to think BeOS was making a comeback in the online games industry...

Actually, it would be great to see some Linux games that could still be enjoyable on slightly older machines...

But I second the opinion, please, no Giant Robotic penguins battling for supreme server space....

A nice Mech game would be good...

LosT

--
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."

Re:Hopefully not Linux versions of... by Mr.Happy3050 · 2003-03-18 06:34 · Score: 1

A nice Mech game would be nice. However, since MS bought out FASA Interactive, the team might be seen to copy Battletech/Mechwarrior games. Probably not a good idea for a first go.

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"All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
Re:Hopefully not Linux versions of... by revery · 2003-03-18 06:53 · Score: 2, Funny

no penguins in your game, okay?
A nice Mech game would be good...

[in a voice similar to Mr. Burns, but with a touch more mad scientist]
Yesss.... a nice Penguin mech game...

--

Was it the sheep climbing onto the altar, or the cattle lowing to be slain,
or the Son of God hanging dead and bloodied on a cross that told me this was a world condemned, but loved and bought with blood.
Re:Hopefully not Linux versions of... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 07:12 · Score: 0

A mech game (or any similarly played vehicle combat game) is exactly the game I've been hoping someone would make for *nix (my joystick hasn't been used for years :)).

I was actually considering making a mech game for *nix myself after my current project. The amount of modelling and artwork was putting me off though (it's a lot harder to get artists to volunteer than it is with programmers, as well as seem to have realized)...
Re:Hopefully not Linux versions of... by jedidiah · 2003-03-18 07:17 · Score: 1

You mean something like Heavy Gear II?

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A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Re:Hopefully not Linux versions of... by Jaysyn · 2003-03-18 08:59 · Score: 1

Gundam / Battletech maybe?

I'd really love to see a game based on the old TSR Gamma World game system. It'd be like fallout but cooler. Well maybe, Fallout was pretty damn cool.

Jaysyn

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There is a war going on for your mind.
Re:Hopefully not Linux versions of... by default+luser · 2003-03-18 09:09 · Score: 1

I was under the impression that Battletech as a concept was a direct descendant of the Robotech series.

What made Battletech unique was the universe and gameplay, not the 'Mech concept.

Anyone who thinks you have to be FASA to make a 'Mech game need only look as far as Earthseige. So long as you don't use the term "'Mech", and juggle the weapons and designs a bit, you should be fine on the copyright thing.

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Man is the animal that laughs.
And occasionally whores for Karma.
Re:Hopefully not Linux versions of... by msimm · 2003-03-18 09:13 · Score: 1

Pffffft! Enough with the older machines. If their servers don't worry about it. If their workstations donate them to charity.

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Quack, quack.
Re:Hopefully not Linux versions of... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 09:23 · Score: 0

I've never even heard of Heavy Gear, I'll have to look into finding a copy. Thanks :).
Re:Hopefully not Linux versions of... by Mr.Happy3050 · 2003-03-18 09:23 · Score: 1

Your impression that Battletech/Robotech is right. Actually, Robotech sued FASA for copyright violation. (In Battletech 2nd ed. the Warhammer on the box still had Robotech markings.) Let me clarify what I meant (because I dig mech(a) combat). If this new group is going to make a name for itself, it should do something new and original. (But that is way easier typed than done.) With MS seeing this as competition and their natural tendency to destroy all competition, the group should shy away from anything that looks like an MS copyright. This should also help in preventing strike suits by MS copyright lawyers.

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"All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
Re:Hopefully not Linux versions of... by default+luser · 2003-03-18 09:56 · Score: 1

Except, after some quick research, I don't think this is really possible unless you can significantly distance yourself from FASA and ALL the previous work under the Battletech name.

Seems I was wrong when I said Earthseige was made without a license. AFAIK, Dynamix bid the rights from FASA to make the original Mechwarrior, but there was a split between Dynamix and Sierra. This resulted in Dynamix releasing Earthseige, and Sierra releasing Mechwarrior II: The Clans. AFAIK, because of the split, they were both licensed to do so.

Activision's Heavy Gear series was also released with FASA's license, despite the fact that the gameplay was drastically different.

Can anyone name a game that was comprised almost entirely of Mech-style combat that wasn't released under the Battletech license?

Don't get me wrong, I love the Battletech universe, even have a 3rd Edition set in my closet. But with so much "prior art" from so many releases, it would be hard not to step on SOMEBODY's toes.

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Man is the animal that laughs.
And occasionally whores for Karma.
Re:Hopefully not Linux versions of... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 10:45 · Score: 0

Make sure it's HG2, not HG. The first is said to be very buggy.

Oh, if you're using HG2 with an Nvidia card and getting crashes when blowing stuff up, lowet the particle special effects.
Re:Hopefully not Linux versions of... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 12:12 · Score: 0

> But I second the opinion, please, no Giant Robotic penguins battling for supreme server space....

Best.. Idea.. EVER!

Well, that's a good start... by obli · 2003-03-18 06:30 · Score: 4, Interesting

Looks like they haven't got any game to develop yet tho. Perhaps they can hook up with some other game designers and make their games more linux-friendly?

Re:Well, that's a good start... by slux · 2003-03-18 07:37 · Score: 1

No.

This is about developing a commercial Linux title from scratch, having it as the main (but not necessarily the only) release platform.

It's a Linux Game Publishing sponsored attempt to form a new Linux-centric game development company. Something that hasn't been done before. LGP already does what you're talking about. Their latest port is Cyberlore's Majesty has just gone gold and there's a demo available. Looks very promising.

Weird concept... by mschoolbus · 2003-03-18 06:31 · Score: 4, Funny

Try to make a Linux game that doesn't reek of amateurish game play and graphics for once...

Re:Weird concept... by Pvt_Waldo · 2003-03-18 07:07 · Score: 1

You mean like Solitare and Mine Sweeper? More people play those games than about any other game.

Do you want seats (people playing your game), or do you want pretty pictures? Are you trying to make an art film or something that's fairly popular at the theaters? Decide that, THEN decide what game to make.
Re:Weird concept... by nelsonal · 2003-03-18 08:07 · Score: 1

I just started playing pente, and it reminded me of othello, which was one of the better GPL games out there as a mindless time waster. Are there any pente projects?

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Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
Re:Weird concept... by unicron · 2003-03-18 08:41 · Score: 1

The difference is, Solitaire and Mindsweeper aren't the flagship games of Windows, where as Tux Racer sadly is.

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Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.

Ballistics by blitzoid · 2003-03-18 06:31 · Score: 1

LGP's current game, Ballistics, is looking pretty sweet. It's a 3D racing game with fighting and other neato things.

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I am a filthy pirate.

Anyone know... by Qaless · 2003-03-18 06:32 · Score: 0

where you can apply for this?

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Jolan Tru. (If you know what this means, you're a tru geek)

Re:Anyone know... by L0stb0Y · 2003-03-18 06:37 · Score: 1

Isn't it Jolan Tru qu?

Speaking of which how about a Star Trek game for Linux, where no Penguin has gone before...(yeah, right, like that will happen)~

*sigh* yeah, it would be nice to see new great games come out on Linux...might save it (you know, since that recent post about LINUX IS DEAD garbage... >:)

What ever~

LosT

--
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."
Re:Anyone know... by ggambett · 2003-03-18 06:37 · Score: 0

Application time ended Monday 10th.

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My website

And since they don't seem to have any game ideas by L0stb0Y · 2003-03-18 06:34 · Score: 5, Funny

how about

Duke Penguin
Mortal Linuks
Leisure Suit Linus
Max Penguin
Splinter Server: The M$ add-on

Sorry.

It's one of *those* days.

LosT

--
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."

Current Linux Games? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 06:34 · Score: 0

I am skeptical. Is there enough hardware support to offer a realistic gaming experience that can be felt on other platforms?

Yes, I jumped in Doom. But I jumped alot higher in Quake II.

Re:Current Linux Games? by LowneWulf · 2003-03-18 07:59 · Score: 1

Well Unreal Tournament 2003 plays better out-of-the-box on my Linux install than my Windows install.

That was with the default X that came with my Linux distribution (Slackware) and drivers directly from NVidia's website.

If you can play UT2003, I think the hardware support is there.

Sweet!!! by SirLantos · 2003-03-18 06:34 · Score: 0

I can't wait to play some great games on my linux machine! Perhaps I am setting my standards a little high; but if this takes off the world may actually see that linux is not just an OS for geeks, but an OS that everybody will want to enjoy. I, personally, have been dissapointed by the serious lack of games for my favorite OS. I have always believed that, that was one of the big reasons that linux hasn't been a pervasive as it should be.

Thats just my opinion,
SitLantos

--
The flying hamster of DOOM rains coconuts on your pitiful city.

Re:Sweet!!! by mschoolbus · 2003-03-18 06:41 · Score: 0, Flamebait

I can't wait to play some great games on my linux machine!

Try Wine, its still your only chance...
Re:Sweet!!! by Kiwi · 2003-03-18 07:08 · Score: 1

One word: freeciv

- Sam (The AI is a little tough to fix, a bug which I have fixed)

--
The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.
Re:Sweet!!! by MsGeek · 2003-03-18 07:40 · Score: 2, Interesting
I said it before, I'll say it again:
- Quake III Arena
- Unreal Tournament
- Return to Castle Wolfenstein
- Unreal Tournament 2003
- Doom III
What part of "Yes, there are blockbuster games available for Linux" do you not understand? All of these are Linux-native. No WineX needed.
--
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Re:Sweet!!! by SirLantos · 2003-03-18 08:09 · Score: 1

They are all First Person Shooters. Yes, I enjoy a good frag as much as the next person...but I want some games that are different.

--
The flying hamster of DOOM rains coconuts on your pitiful city.
Re:Sweet!!! by msimm · 2003-03-18 09:34 · Score: 1

Dont forget LGP's games and Loki's titles.

I'm still playing Tribes 2 with over 60 active tribe members and a dedicated server and website.

Goooooooo Liiinnnuuuxx!

I think their doing it to try to keep things from fizzling out. ID does it because they can (and they kick ass). Loki, well.. And LGP is holding the torch. I think OSS should court the mod community, I mean they develop content and OSS games tend to need a little.

--
Quack, quack.

What really happened by arvindn · 2003-03-18 06:36 · Score: 4, Funny

Having received only seven applications in all for the post, linuxlookup.com made up the deficit by "granting" the remaining position to one of their own programmers :)

Re:What really happened by ggambett · 2003-03-18 06:40 · Score: 2, Informative

This wasn't the case. I was one of the final 16 but I wasn't selected to be one of the definitive 8 - so they got at least 16 applications :)

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My website

I'm on windows because by mwolff · 2003-03-18 06:37 · Score: 3, Insightful

Yeah, the only flaw I can find with Linux is the lack of games.

Re:I'm on windows because by Randolpho · 2003-03-18 06:40 · Score: 1

Surely buggy GUIs outweigh a lack of games...

</flamebait>

--
"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
-Marilyn Manson
Re:I'm on windows because by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 06:58 · Score: 0

So it won't bother you if there's penguins in the games, as long as there's games to play, right?
Re:I'm on windows because by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 07:18 · Score: 0

Hmmm, I've seem to of found a few quality games to play on Linux... Quake 3 Unreal Tournament Unreal Tournamnet 2003 Heroes of Might and Magic 3 Decent 3 Tux Racer (retail) Return to Castle Wolfenstein Aliens vs Preditor xMAME And not to mention how great of a job www.transgaming.com has been doing with WineX to get many of the popular Windows games playable under Linux...
Re:I'm on windows because by molarmass192 · 2003-03-18 07:31 · Score: 1

Well, you might be on Windows for a while then. There are quite a few games for Windows that run under WINE and WineX but, at least as of right now, they don't have the same level of stability (can't believe I'm saying this) as running them on native Windows. There are some very good games that run natively under Linux but, like you pointed out, the selection is quite limited. If you really want to ditch Windows then you should consider buying a console for gaming. Sadly, the popularity of DirectX combined with it's proprietary non-portable nature means that the market needs to convince game engine makers to wean themselves off DirectX and (back) onto OpenGL. Even though this isn't impossible (ie. game engines that support the PS2 don't use DirectX) it would probably take quite some time to happen. One way to start is by simply not buying games that require DirectX since talking with your wallet is often the most effective way of conveying a message to companies.

On a side note, I think there were some licensing issues with developing OpenGL graphics drivers that might have helped pave the way for DirectX back in it's infancy. I'm not sure if these were ever addressed but somebody else might know full text of the issue I'm thinking of. Regardless, a lot of legacy cards that support DirectX may well not offer OpenGL drivers.

--

Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
Re:I'm on windows because by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 07:39 · Score: 0

I'm not sure if you realized this, but you don't really matter. What matters is getting windows users onto an open OS. A major reason keeping a large chunk of windows users from using linux is gaming. Imagine if linux had a AAA or even a AA game that wasn't available on Windows. That has to start somewhere. And it did with the selection of those programmers!
Re:I'm on windows because by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 12:36 · Score: 0

Good call. The whole point of capitalism is that you vote with your dollar. A bunch of Kazaa skript kiddi3s can't seem to understant this...

hell ya by mandrake*rpgdx · 2003-03-18 06:40 · Score: 1

i think the adventure game market could be huge now...if they market it correctly. I mean come on, the last few FinalFantasy's played like a washed up wanna-be King's Quest with a bad combat system....and Resident Evil is just Alone in the Dark with a gun.

--
click me

Re:hell ya by Randolpho · 2003-03-18 06:42 · Score: 1

"bad" combat system? You understate hundredfold. ;)

--
"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
-Marilyn Manson

This is like the real world.. by xchino · 2003-03-18 06:41 · Score: 4, Funny

This is the true story (true story) of eight unrelated programmers picked to work on a Linux project and have their code made open. This is what happens when programmers stop being nice, and start being real.

Seriously, I could see this as being the next big reality TV series. I have no doubt that there will be some serious "static" between these people. What kind of leadership model is there going ot be? Are they just throwing them together and letting them work it out amongst themselves? I worked on a Linux game with my best friend, and we were at each others throats within a week and had to ditch the project before we killed each other.

--
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.

Re:This is like the real world.. by Soko · 2003-03-18 07:09 · Score: 4, Funny

Seriously, I could see this as being the next big reality TV series.

Please, please $DIETY, make sure there's no TV execs reading this thread. PLEASE!!!! I can see it now...

(Fade in from the final commercial...)

Coder1: OK, so, what happened this week? Who gets voted out of the group?
Coder3: Coder7 totally hosed our CVS tree - he should go...
Coder7: No I didn't! Hey, Linus hisself uses BitKeeper fercryinoutloud...
Coder4: That wasn't as bad to our chances of success as what Coder 5 did. I mean, that robot that could strip any female character naked and then turn her to stone was *lame* in the extreme.
Coder5: Not as bad as your trap door that looked like the gotasex guy.
Coder6: I say Coder2 goes. He's done the unthinkable.
All: ????
Coder6: He ported the whole project to .Net in a day and a half.
Coder1: GAH! Heresy! Coder2 it is!"

Soko

--
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous

LGP link? by mmol_6453 · 2003-03-18 06:42 · Score: 1

Does anyone have a link to the Linux Game Project's homepage? I googled for it, but didn't find it. (?!)

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What's this Submit thingy do?

Re:LGP link? by AndrewNelson · 2003-03-18 06:53 · Score: 2, Informative

It's actually http://www.linuxgamepublishing.com - and the development company's site is http://www.linuxgamepublishing.com/devcompany.php

HTH

No penguins. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 06:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

I wan't a game with chicks, guns and blood.. NOT merchandise for the OS it runs best on...

Re:No penguins. by leoboiko · 2003-03-18 08:15 · Score: 1

I seriously don't care if my games contain penguins or not, as long as they are fun.

--
Prescriptive grammar:linguistics :: alchemy:chemistry. Stop being a nazi and learn some science.

if they made by JeanBaptiste · 2003-03-18 06:45 · Score: 1

freeMoo2 like freeCiv2 I would be happy enough. Of course I would be even happier with freeDoom3.

Re:if they made by nelsonal · 2003-03-18 08:11 · Score: 1

I'd be happy with freeMOO. That game was just fun, but I lost the manual and can only remember about 1/3 of the ship class names. At least with pirates you only have to choose from the captians and you only lose your cannon's if you get it wrong.

--
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.

A suggestion for story by michaelggreer · 2003-03-18 06:50 · Score: 5, Interesting

In the past ten years, people having been flocking to get MFAs in creative writing. There are tons of writers out there. However, it always seem like game developers think that it would be better if they wrote their own stories and scripts. Writing is not a trivial business. I mean, everyone can write, but everyone can sing too. Why not get a writer to write? I understand it becomes a matter of control, and that the developers want to put in their own birlliant anime-influenced ideas, but its like letting the programmers draw the graphics. I suggest getting a writer to write the story, and let them run the story.

Re:A suggestion for story by decipher_saint · 2003-03-18 07:32 · Score: 1

I think it's too constrictive, the game developer is going to tell the writer what his parameters are for writing his story for example:
Here is a game where a little yellow dot (Pac-Man) eats little dots in a giant maze and gets chased by ghosts until he eats a slightly-bigger dot, therefore allowing him to eat the ghosts (for a set amount of time). Pac-Man advances to the next level (maze) by eating all the dots in the current maze.
Granted, it's not the most complex game in the world but is it possible to write even a simple story that doesen't interfere with the gameplay / goals of this game? It also illustrates another feature of most popular games today: There is no linear plot per se, in order to advance or be ranked you must perform operations repeatedly (in an MMORPG, think of levelling by killing endless monsters or visiting dungeons and aquiring items). Try writing a coherant, linear plot around non-linear, player choices (it's a daunting task as any good pen & paper RPG Game Master will tell you).

Of course, having writers proof-read some of the grammar before it goes out the door couldn't hurt ;-)

Just my $0.02

--
crazy dynamite monkey
Re:A suggestion for story by gl4ss · 2003-03-18 07:35 · Score: 1

that pro writer would have to understand things about gaming too.

you can't make a 'free open ended game' by having totally restrictive one way going awful predictable plot. freelancer had just this.. awful plot for that type of game (cliches don't matter though), the writer maybe thought that 'open ended' in computer games means that you dont finish the story properly AT ALL.

doom has awful plot, yet it was fantastic game, lots of very good arcade games have cliche plots but that's whats best for them.

they don't need normal 'pro' writers, they need good writers who understand what kind of a game they are writing for and can take that into account when designing.

--
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:A suggestion for story by moncyb · 2003-03-18 08:22 · Score: 1

The writers could write a history for the game environment. If you read the manual, Warcraft II (don't know about 1 or 3) had various background stories. Made the game a little more entertaining--after I bothered to read them. ;-)
Also, I imagine a writer could come up with characters/ideas and write documentation too...
Re:A suggestion for story by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 11:54 · Score: 0

If you read the manual, Warcraft II (don't know about 1 or 3) had various background stories
What is this "manual" of which you speak, such things are for womenfolk, children and cripples!

Re:And since they don't seem to have any game idea by Gortbusters.org · 2003-03-18 06:50 · Score: 1

Don't forget..

Dark Ages of Penguins
LinuxQuest
OS Craft

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--------
Free your mind.

I just want to know by AndrewNelson · 2003-03-18 06:50 · Score: 5, Funny

... how I got labelled an "International Man of Mystery".

Re:I just want to know by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 07:01 · Score: 0

Offtopic? Did you read the article? That's what they call the guy!

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2003-03-18 06:52 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Tux Racer by spanky1 · 2003-03-18 06:56 · Score: 1

No need to purchase an expensive 3D engine. The Tux Racer engine is GPL'd and kicks ass!

RPG's? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 06:56 · Score: 1, Insightful

They seem to make or break the systems in the console market. The final fantasy series is totally evidence of that. Good adventure games would be sweet too. Anyone for Sam n Max?

Re:RPG's? by R0 · 2003-03-18 12:47 · Score: 1

Sam and Max is 93% Compatible with Scummvm. Scummvm works on linux amongst other OS's.

yay by DaLiNKz · 2003-03-18 06:56 · Score: 1

I hope they code up some MMORPG. We need some linux MMORPG's (well, with a port to windows so we arnt all alone bickering about what rm -rf / does :S)

--
I've left to find myself. If you happen to see me, please, keep me there until I return.

I'm still hoping for "alternate reality"... by dmorin · 2003-03-18 06:56 · Score: 3, Interesting

When the first story came out I suggested a "new type of game" that "follows me around". Another recent story on Slashdot informs me that those are called "Alternate Reality" games. You know, the kind that email you with clues or have AIs call you on your cell phone.

Make one of those, please. The dependence on the 3D card of the user will be minimal. The influence of Linux will be huge. It'll be a new new thing, not a copy of the old new thing. It'll be a challenge.

--
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com

Re:I'm still hoping for "alternate reality"... by glwtta · 2003-03-18 07:19 · Score: 1

Hm, I don't know much about the "Alternate Reality" games, but they seems to requiere a significant investment on the part of the company, during the entire game run, and once it's no longer "support" it, you can't really play the game... just doesn't seem like a good fit.
Incidentally, "Alternate Reality" seems like a bit of a misnomer - isn't the whole point that the games are played, in part, in our reality (phone calls and faxes and all that)? It's traditional computer games where the action takes place in an "alternate" reality.

--
sic transit gloria mundi
Re:I'm still hoping for "alternate reality"... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 09:57 · Score: 0

It'll be new

It'll leverage linux

It'll die

I want to see by Joe+the+Lesser · 2003-03-18 07:04 · Score: 1

a MMORPG entitled:

'Linux Warriors: The Battle of /.'

--
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)

No Penguins? by StarTux · 2003-03-18 07:06 · Score: 1

Not even Tuxamillion? The Penguin version of Maximillion?

StarTux

Duke Penguin Forever ... by burgburgburg · 2003-03-18 07:06 · Score: 1

will come out when it's ready. Not before. Now go away.

Re:And since they don't seem to have any game idea by revery · 2003-03-18 07:07 · Score: 3, Funny

Here's a few more:

Age of Geeks
Balmer's Gates
Ballmer's Gates II: Shadows of Redmond
(Eris S.) Rayman
Solid Snack: Sons of Lethargy

Hey I've an idea by zannox · 2003-03-18 07:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

Without sounding sarcastic, what to they expect to accomplish? Loki tried; they had excellent game engines and talented programmers. Tribes 2, Hero's of Might & Magic 3, Heavy Gear 2, Heretic 2, Railroad Tycoon, Myth 1 & 2. Not to mention the Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3 and the ton of Quake 2/3 based games. **IF** Loki's biggest problem was indeed mismanagement then lets hope LGP has better people in charge.

I think they should start with Tribes 3 :) Hey LGP!!! Give Sierra a call. I'm sure they will hook you up like they did Loki. "You can co-develop along with windows, can't release it till 6 months after the windows client is released. PLUS we will charge you 100's of 1000's of bucks for engine licensing. Then, we will release the engine for 100 bucks AFTER you've folded" /sarcasm

--
I've nothing of importance to say, now go away before I taunt you with a second sig!

Re:Hey I've an idea by Sloppy · 2003-03-18 07:15 · Score: 1

Minor nit: Loki never published Myth 1.
I would love to see another Loki appear, but without the going-out-of-business part. ;-) I spent hundreds of dollars on Loki games and was pretty happy with most of them, and I still use hg2 and sof to blow off steam from time to time.

--
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Re:Hey I've an idea by zannox · 2003-03-18 07:40 · Score: 1

Who did that then? I go them in a 2 for 1 combo...?? Been a WHILE so maybe it was Myth 2 and the addon I have ....Oh yeah this isn't smoke.dot LOL

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I've nothing of importance to say, now go away before I taunt you with a second sig!
Re:Hey I've an idea by Sloppy · 2003-03-18 08:26 · Score: 1

As far as I know, there is no Myth 1 for Linux, published by anyone. I hear the Windows version runs under WineX on Linux x86, though.

--
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Re:Hey I've an idea by zannox · 2003-03-18 08:33 · Score: 1

I'll check it when I get home tonight but I'm betting you are correct and what I have is Myth 2: The Fallen Lords and the addon.....But I'll post and let ya know :)

--
I've nothing of importance to say, now go away before I taunt you with a second sig!
Re:Hey I've an idea by msimm · 2003-03-18 09:11 · Score: 1

Loki tried? Well, they did have good programmers, but using them as a disincentive for anything but mismanagement seems a little naive.

Did you read their history? Ouch.

--
Quack, quack.
Re:Hey I've an idea by zannox · 2003-03-18 09:26 · Score: 1

That's how I meant it....as in bad managment can take any good thing and trash it :/

--
I've nothing of importance to say, now go away before I taunt you with a second sig!
Re:Hey I've an idea by slux · 2003-03-18 20:33 · Score: 1

What they expect is to release some games for Linux people to play, no more. Their approach is very different to Loki's - they're not attempting to port every AAA title in existence to Linux, they look for quality titles that they can get for a price that will still let them profit even with the current (small) size of the Linux gaming community.

They're not targeting the people who want to play every new game that exists on the face of the earth like Loki seems to have attempted. (ie. hardcore gamers)

And yes, I believe LGP is managed better. Michael Simms has an idea of the kind of demand there is and will be as he also runs tuxgames.com, *the* Linux game reseller. He also watched Loki do it's mistakes in the past and I have no doubt that he doesn't plan on repeating them.

By the way, they already contacted the publishers of Tribes 3 here. They promised to get in touch about it. :)

There's an interesting transcript of an IRC interview with Michael Simms that I've been suprised to not see on Slashdot here. Apparently they're going to assign one of their developers to improve some GPL titles up to commercial quality. Very interesting stuff.

Play Sierra games on Linux? by spanky1 · 2003-03-18 07:08 · Score: 1

Has anyone tried this SCI interpreter for Linux? I loved Space Quest, King's Quest, and Quest for Glory...

Idremna by Decimal · 2003-03-18 07:09 · Score: 1

This would have been great for Idremna. :) But hey, perhaps these linux games could be easily ported to such a console if the future does bring one to life?

--

Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh

Re:Idremna by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 07:26 · Score: 0

I think you mean the in-yura-drema ... err I mean Indrema.

Crystal Space by matvei · 2003-03-18 07:11 · Score: 1

Using Crystal Space would really make sense in a project like this.

More great titles by macguiguru · 2003-03-18 07:13 · Score: 0

How about the classics?!?! (Disk)Space Invaders Mist (Deadlines) and last, but not least: Sim Penguin

Linuxlookup story plagiarised from happypenguin by bobz · 2003-03-18 07:14 · Score: 5, Informative

The entire writeup at linuxlookup.com was lifted verbatim from my announcement at happypenguin.org. As far as I know, this team has not been announced *anywhere* yet besides happypenguin. Plagiarism sucks, guys.

Re:Linuxlookup story plagiarised from happypenguin by AndrewNelson · 2003-03-18 07:19 · Score: 1

I thought that looked familiar... I figured you had posted the one on LL.
Re:Linuxlookup story plagiarised from happypenguin by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 07:26 · Score: 0

They should have linked back.
Ashes on their head.
Re:Linuxlookup story plagiarised from happypenguin by msimm · 2003-03-18 09:08 · Score: 1

More likely they both recieved the same press release and reprinted it more or less word for word.

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Quack, quack.
Re:Linuxlookup story plagiarised from happypenguin by bobz · 2003-03-18 09:22 · Score: 2, Informative

There is no ambiguity here. There was no press release. I wrote an original summary of the LGP team and their accomplishments. I posted that summary as news to my site. Some time later, this other site copied my work word-for-word and represented it as their own.
Re:Linuxlookup story plagiarised from happypenguin by msimm · 2003-03-18 09:37 · Score: 1

Well, I'm sorry to hear that. I was just eyeballing a possible misunderstanding (we're quick to point sometimes!).

--
Quack, quack.

One possible project by Kiwi · 2003-03-18 07:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

One project these developers can do is finish up and polish xconq, which is a GPL multi-platform real-time strategy wargame which has been in a perpetual state of being incomplete for 17 years now. The game has only two part-time developers and one of them is becoming blind; this game has a lot of promise and I would love to see it get the kind of professional polish that a team of eight programmers working on it for a year can give it.

I much prefer an open-source game; it allows me to make tweaks and implement house rules; something a proprietary game does not allow.

- Sam

--

The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.

Re:One possible project by Quill_28 · 2003-03-18 07:59 · Score: 1

>GPL multi-platform real-time strategy

Interesting site though a bit old.

From the screen shots it looks like a turn based strategy game not a RTS.

Which is fine with me.
Re:One possible project by _xeno_ · 2003-03-18 08:12 · Score: 1

I much prefer an open-source game; it allows me to make tweaks and implement house rules; something a proprietary game does not allow.
Mods.
Doom has allowed modification for a while, the Quakes had something too.
Most of the early Half-Life mods were (bad) implementations of various house rules. Dumb things like letting you change the color of the laser weapons, but still interesting.
Unreal Tournament (and Unreal itself?) have mutators that allow you to easily mutate one small aspect of gameplay, allowing the implementation of house rules that way.
In other words, house rules is a good idea and it is appearing in commerical games too. And "a proprietary game" can allow it, but not all do.

--
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
Re:One possible project by Kiwi · 2003-03-18 08:34 · Score: 1

Yeah, you are right. I mean to say "turn based"
- Sam

--
The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.
Re:One possible project by msimm · 2003-03-18 08:59 · Score: 1

One of my pet peeves in the Linux community is all the legacy cruft. I'd much rather not see time and energy spent on a game started 17 years ago.

What about adopting a modification already in development? I came across this Tribes 2 modification (called Mechina, pictures here) and it just blew my mind. They already have textures, mappers, scripting and detailed models. Its almost a total conversion already and as I recall Tribes 2 is based on GarageGames Torque Game Engine SDK which is available for Linux, Windows and Macintosh already.

Check out the link at least, believe me its not just another Tribes 2 game modification. Rewrite the base code, replace the Tribes 2 models and textures and you'd have an amazing game.

--
Quack, quack.
Re:One possible project by British · 2003-03-18 09:41 · Score: 1

Seventeen years? Looks like Linux has Duke Nukem Forever beat hands down!

Go linux developers go!
Re:One possible project by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 12:07 · Score: 0

Yep, free software projects sometimes take a long time to complete.

RMS started the GNU project 20 years ago. We still do not have a Hurd kernel. Of course, this project got distracted by the Linux kernel, which was the first kernel to make a viable free GNU system possible.

Freeciv was started over seven years ago, and is still not finished; they are now just adding the code to give the AI the ability to have treaties. Then again, the original project had no plans for an isometric tileset, but the last stable release has isometric stupport.

Linux needed three years to come out with a 1.0 release; Mozilla and Abiword needed four years to come out with a 1.0 release. OpenOffice only needed two years, but that was because the code was was a proprietary code base opened up by Sun Microsystems.

Free software does not always have people working on it full time. It often takes longer to release; but is superior to the proprietary equivalent when released.
Re:One possible project by Bob+Uhl · 2003-03-19 07:17 · Score: 1

One of my pet peeves in the Linux community is all the legacy cruft. I'd much rather not see time and energy spent on a game started 17 years ago.
That's one of the more ignorant things I've read of late (which says a lot--I've been reading socialist and Democratic writings recently). The `legacy cruft,' as you so blithely dismiss it, is often very good. Do we get rid of printf() simply because it's old? Of course not. Do we abandon Unix because it's `legacy cruft'? Of course not.
It so happens that xconq is an incredibly cool and extensible conquer-the-world game. In fact, it makes more sense to fiddle with it than to reinvent the wheel.
Take a look at nethack sometime. It's been around for years, and the reason it's so fun is precisely that. Old things have had more time spent on them, more features added, more cruft removed. Which is the prettier city: London or Albaquerque?
Re:One possible project by msimm · 2003-03-19 07:59 · Score: 1

Thats one of the more subjective flames I've experienced lately. I'm glad you enjoy nethack but that doesn't invalidate my view.

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Quack, quack.

Yes!!!!! by macguiguru · 2003-03-18 07:17 · Score: 0

Oh my god! YES!! A game that uses the most powerful imaging software on earth >>>the user's IMAGINATION! Clever storylines, some way to tie in multiple users... good grief! Nerds could start meeting nerdettes... it would be almost like... a life... LOL! Seriously - I strongly agree - this kind of game could be HUGE.

riiigggggghhhhhhhht by mandrake*rpgdx · 2003-03-18 07:23 · Score: 1

and the odler games, they were totally void of any such cases? I mean, yeah, those platformer games really went beyond good versus evil and blowing shit up. Right. Or even Ultima, or Wizards and Warriors, Might and Magic, ADVENT, etc etc and etc...it's all cliche and violence...

if anything games are involving towards more plot and less linearity.

--
click me

Re:riiigggggghhhhhhhht by thx2001r · 2003-03-18 07:43 · Score: 1

Well,

As I said in the post you replied to:

"Ok then, how about a new game genre. One with a story (by the way, a story is not, 20 online friends walk into a room to kill a monster or each other) maybe?"

Sorry if you thought the word "Anymore" insinuated that I thought older games "were totally void of any such cases". If you'll notice I also posted up something about wanting adventure games back.

Perhaps I'm reminiscing about adventure games and wishing we could get some of these going again (I don't mind FPS and all the other new genres out there, I won't play them but anyone who wants to is more than welcome to, I just want to see if someone goes in a direction again where story is most important rather than just being filler between fighting and battles... how about funny games? Leisure Suit Larry anyone?!? Sam and Max)

I think there must be at least some people out there who, like me, don't find any of the current gaming options even remotely what they're looking for.

--
-Joe
If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr
Re:riiigggggghhhhhhhht by FortKnox · 2003-03-18 07:47 · Score: 1

Have you tried Deus Ex, Theif 2, or System Shock 2 before?

--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Re:riiigggggghhhhhhhht by thx2001r · 2003-03-18 07:47 · Score: 1

Oh, and I don't mean that I only want to see adventure games revived... I'd be more interested in seeing new genres that focus more on story-telling than on the action.

--
-Joe
If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr
Re:riiigggggghhhhhhhht by thx2001r · 2003-03-18 07:49 · Score: 1

I've tried Thief 2, it was a bit boring to me... It had some story, but wasn't what I was looking for.

--
-Joe
If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr
Re:riiigggggghhhhhhhht by FortKnox · 2003-03-18 07:52 · Score: 1

Deus Ex is full of story.

Another good one is "Oni". Tomb-raider like perspective, but the ability to fight AND use weapons. Very genre-breaking.

--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Re:riiigggggghhhhhhhht by DaytonCIM · 2003-03-18 08:00 · Score: 1

System Shock 2 kicks a$$! Oh wait, we already had this discussion... :)

first person multi-player puzzle game by Transient0 · 2003-03-18 07:40 · Score: 1

-----QUOTE-----
And, hey, if they MUST use first person, why not a first person multi-player game WITH a story... imagine king's quest first person where you walk around a 3d environment... what if you took your friends along with you for the quest? That way you can chat with them and you can all cooperatively solve problems / puzzles / decide on things?
-----ENDQUOTE-----

Isn't that exactly what A Tale in The Desert offers? And with a Linux-Native Client too!

--
lysergically yours

Re:first person multi-player puzzle game by thx2001r · 2003-03-18 08:15 · Score: 1

That sounds like it :) I'll give it a try!

--
-Joe
If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr
Re:first person multi-player puzzle game by Radical+Rad · 2003-03-18 13:36 · Score: 1

I checked out A Tale in The Desert and it is very interesting. However it didn't really seem much like a game to me. The puzzles seemed like pedantic rituals. I felt like I was going through the levels in the Masonic lodge. Player interaction was confined to being helpful to each other so it could have been called "Mr. Roger Visits Ancient Egypt." I don't want to sound completely negative though. I haven't seen any other MMORPGs for Linux so I have nothing to compare it against. As an creative experiment it is certainly a success. Perhaps it may lead the developers toward a system with new aspects of gameplay but combined with the combat and intrigue we normally expect in a game. Just my two cents.

Re: Hey now, Tux racer is fun for the whole family by tomhudson · 2003-03-18 07:41 · Score: 1

... unless you're running an AMD cpu (they still haven't fixed the loop error in the binaries, and I have better things to do than recompile a game I'm too busy to play anyway).

Wow, linux games! by ToadSprocket · 2003-03-18 07:42 · Score: 1

So when can we look forward to xciv2? What about the next version of 'googly eyes that follow your pointing device around the desktop'? I sure hope we continue that great Linux tradition that is 'xdaliclock'! (Ok, not really a game, granted)

Here's to the hope that we can get a decent, native Linux game going.

--

If this article confuses you, don't worry. It was posted yesterday in a much clearer fashion.

Re:And since they don't seem to have any game idea by Tokerat · 2003-03-18 07:47 · Score: 1

Dude, you made my day with "Leisure Suit Linus", that was too damn funny.

--
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?

Re:Yeah, I'm ready to switch. by broeman · 2003-03-18 07:56 · Score: 0

I very much doubt that you are the target-group anyway. It seems that you just loves every game with bloathed graphics and run to your local store (if you aren't a 0-dayz warez-guy) because of the nice commercials. I have played C&C Generals on my machine, and really don't give a damn, redalert still rocks (a simular game just went opengl for kde). The game is not innovative, the idea is about 15 years old (Dune), only graphics improve and different features arrive or gets lost.

For the articles sake (eventhough it is the shortest one I read today, yippie :) these people seems to be hardcore game-programmers. One had made one of my favorite games for years: mad bomber! man I played that on my Amiga with my friends a lot in the early 1990's :) Another makes great samples, another really great graphics. The only question is if those people can actually work together, because then I cannot see why they couldn't make a succesful game that hopefully are TRUELY innovative.
.
.

--

(yes this can be compared with sex)

Monkey Island by linuxelf · 2003-03-18 07:58 · Score: 1

Man, if they could do a cool adventure game, with humour like the Monkey Island series, I'd be all over it.

--
- "That's just the kind of fuzzy-headed liberal thinking that leads to being eaten."

Re:Yeah, I'm ready to switch. by sloanster · 2003-03-18 08:04 · Score: 1

Please don't feed the trolls -

Seriously, I used to keep a ms partition on my computer back in 1994 or so, so I could play doom.

That was then, this is now - with all the great id titles over the years (doom II, quake, quake II, Q3A) and games with the id graphics engine (RtCW), or other games such as unreal tournament, or any of the other linux games I haven't even had a chance to play, linux gaming is good for a lot of folks, including me.

Can't wait for doom 3 -

Re: You mean like Softporn Adventures? by Reedo · 2003-03-18 08:05 · Score: 1

Sierra (when they were still named Online Systems) published a game called Softporn Adventures.

Here's an image of the box.
Here it is emulated. 100% text! Softporn indeed. ;)

Yep. by Decimal · 2003-03-18 08:08 · Score: 1

That's right, I couldn't remember how it was spelled. Thanks. :)

--

Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh

Re:And since they don't seem to have any game idea by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 08:20 · Score: 0

Linus has already forked a child process, hence he has definitely gotten laid... sorry about the Leisure Suit Linus game idea, but it doesn't hold up.

Next!

Correction... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 08:21 · Score: 0

All: ????
Coder6: Profit!

yeah right... by juggleboy · 2003-03-18 08:26 · Score: 1, Insightful

So, the typical game developer would have about 8 coders working fulltime, and a typical game development cycle is about 18 months...
Here we have 8 coders, working parttime. A quick conversion into man-hours, and it'll take them, say, 6-10 years to make a game?

And they haven't even got a game idea! And there's a vague mention of hiring some artists at some point, which is more than a little weird considering the artists have at least as much work to do as the coders...

Any designers writing design documents? Nope, didn't think so.

If the genre's an acronym, that's not new by ianscot · 2003-03-18 08:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

Personally, I'd like to see something combining the storyline of a good RPG with the action of a good FPS. Open ended would be nice, something like Privateer or Freelancer but in a fantasy or military setting rather than as a space sim.

Not that I'd mind any of those things, but when you can refer to the genre of your game in shorthand ("FPS") and you want to re-make existing games in a different setting, that's hardly breaking new ground. Do we want the open community to produce nothing but less-polished takes on overpriced, over-card-dependent consumer boxed titles?

(Anyone who can come up with a worthy successor to M.U.L.E. would have my blessing, such as it is.)

--
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.

Re:And since they don't seem to have any game idea by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 08:37 · Score: 0

Eh? Penguins aren't in the Dark Ages... It's Dark Age of Redmond, of course, wherein the wizard Linus helps the GNUs overcome the Black Knight, Bill...

mmmmmm by nunofgs · 2003-03-18 08:43 · Score: 1

now point a gun at them and tell em they have less than 60 seconds to do it :)

Re: Hey I've got an idea by jvalenzu · 2003-03-18 08:52 · Score: 1

We know you're not a rookie, but a brief refresher course will sharpen you up for your mission.

LGP is encouraging this team to make a Windows version as well, so if it's halfway decent they should be able to fund the GNU/Lunix port.

Hopefully they make good games by The+Analog+Kid · 2003-03-18 08:53 · Score: 1

If it good, I'll buy it and hopefully they won't port it to Windows. That will be the day everything changes, the day that Linux gets it own exclusive game.

Re:Hopefully they make good games by AndrewNelson · 2003-03-18 08:59 · Score: 1

What would be wrong with porting it to Windows?

When Microsoft makes games only for the X-Box, they're labelled monopolistic and evil. Why *wouldn't* we want the game to run on anything and everything it's feasible to run it on?

I'm hopeful to get it running on at *least* Linux, Windows, MacOS X, Free/Open/NetBSD, and hell, maybe Solaris. I know a few people with Sun boxes who wouldn't mind me borrowing them for a while...

So, again, why wouldn't you want a good game to be available everywhere? To "lock people in"? All that will do is make sure no one plays the game - that trick only works when you already have the dominant market share.
Re:Hopefully they make good games by m1a1 · 2003-03-18 11:11 · Score: 1

Heh, on the one had I agree with you, but if I was making a game, there is no way I could resist porting to it windows. Sorry, some times I think only in dollar signs.
Re:Hopefully they make good games by Radical+Rad · 2003-03-18 13:52 · Score: 1

To "lock people in"? All that will do is make sure no one plays the game - that trick only works when you already have the dominant market share.
"Lock-in" is what it is called when you have a monopoly because you are limiting choice. When you are the underdog it is called having a "killer app".

Linux runs on PCs by pommiekiwifruit · 2003-03-18 09:04 · Score: 1

PC games are first person shooters, with medium gray characters on dark gray backgrounds. For variation you can have dark brown characters (bleeding) on muddy grey backgrounds (outside).

Maybe for the Xbox port of linux you will be allowed to run an extreme sports game, using a colour with RGB values greater than 128.

Game I like to see by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 09:05 · Score: 0

One good game from past which has no be updated or
has got part II.

Seal team.

Even there has been similar games,not yet there has been as good as seal team was.

Gameplay like ST but new story and update to real 3D.

This is interesting by SerpentMage · 2003-03-18 09:26 · Score: 1

People are wondering about business models, etc. But lets look at what is happening here. Yes they are probably creating closed source products. But the fact of the matter is that they have an open development process. This is a totally new twist to building software.

I truly find this interesting, especially with your twist of suggestions from the slashdot community...

--

"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"

You forgot ... by zonix · 2003-03-18 09:29 · Score: 1

Leisure Suit Linus

... in the Land of the Lounge penguins.

Hell, the original title would still do: '... in the Land of the Lounge Lizards'. :-)

z

--
What would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me

Re:Yeah, I'm ready to switch. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 09:40 · Score: 0

Note how many games you mention are FPS'ers, and are from iD. Just because you get your favorite games doesn't mean the majority of gamers get their favorite games, or even games in the same genre for that matter.

Not everyone is a FPS fan. Some (infact, most) people would like a more diverse selection of games. Look at the PS2 vs Xbox. The Playstation 2 is selling more because it has the largest selection of great games. There's something for everybody. The same cannot be said for Linux gaming, or even PC gaming in general for that matter.

You misparsed the original post. by doublem · 2003-03-18 09:59 · Score: 3, Informative

but plot and fun...

Remember, this is an English Language Query, NOT a boolean. Therefore the original poster did not mean you had to have plot AND fun in order for the game to have staying power, but that plot and fun were two members of the set of criteria that can result in staying power. Therefore, a game with plot alone can have staying power, a game with fun alone (Ms. Pacman for example) can have staying power, and a game with plot AND fun can have staying power.

You responded rudely to a post that did NOT exclude your game from the possible set of games with staying power. Ms. Pacman is "fun" and therefore has the possibility to have stying power within the parameters of the original post.

--
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA

Re:You misparsed the original post. by Tomun · 2003-03-18 12:30 · Score: 1

> Remember, this is an English Language Query, NOT a boolean.

LOL! More of this please.

something like Spaceward Ho! by DuckWing · 2003-03-18 11:03 · Score: 1

For those of you that don't know, Spaceward Ho! (that's not being a Ho!) was a space exploration/strategy game for the Mac. It was a lot of fun. sort of Civ'ish.

--
-- DuckWing

No game ideas yet...duh! by sbaker · 2003-03-18 11:14 · Score: 2, Informative

The team were only informed that they'd been selected sometime late last night!

It's a bit early to expect anything other than "getting to know each other" chat via email.

--
www.sjbaker.org

What makes a good game anyway? by saynte · 2003-03-18 11:23 · Score: 2, Interesting

I think in the original contest document, they stated that they'd purchase the required devlopment tools, eg. the torque engine (I think they should have called it the Newton-Metre engine, har har). Torque is a pretty nice engine really, good enough anyway, games aren't built on graphics alone. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing a game with some Tribes-like aspects. I found Tribes fun mostly because of the challenge, and freedom. The challenge comes from the speed, and funny physics they employ (most people don't slide down hills at 100kph ;)). Whenever you shoot your weapon at speed, just like real physics, it takes on the velocity you currently have. Aiming at your target isn't enough, or aiming where you think he'll be isn't enough, you have to aim such that you compensate for speed! It's really great fun, not to mention the fairly large map sizes, which give you pretty well all the running around room you could want. To make a game fun, I'd say you need a few things (from my point of view as a gamer anyway): -it has to be hard enough, that you can be horrible at it to begin with, but eventually 'master' it and have some sense of accomplishment -it has to have some innate sense of fun, all the typical fun qualities apply here: explosions, high speed, tension, humour, excessive brutality (not gruesome, but just enough for you to say "jeez, that was awfully painful looking") -you should be able to play it for short periods of time, no sitting down for 2 hours just to make some marginal increase in progress. that's not fun, that's just repetition (everquest reference here really). -if it is online, it should be VERY easy to be social. if people have friends in the game, they're more apt to play it, more apt to buy, etc. -directly linked to the previous point, teamplay is important if it's online. online games really shine when you pretty well FORCE teamplay, because it makes people talk to each other, be more social, and overall have a better time! (which is what games are about right? having fun?) -having said all that, it should have some sort of innovation. no one is expecting revolutionary work here, but at least make something that stands on it's own. dont' let anyone say "well, it's really like q3 and counterstrike put together" make them say "well.. uh.. well, it's really just like it is, hard to compare it to anything". I think that's important, because if they are forced to say that, THEN you know you've given them something they can't get anywhere else. These are just what I can think of at the moment, but that's briefly what I find when I look at the games I really really played a lot, and truly liked. I'm actually quite excited to see what they can come up with, should be very interesting!

Cool! Steve Baker by philovivero · 2003-03-18 11:41 · Score: 2, Informative

Most people probably don't know who Steve Baker is. He's been in the Linux 3D community for AGES. He started out as a big-time contributor to FlightGear, the open-source and relatively good flight simulator. However, he was working for a big commercial outfit that eventually decided his participation in the project was a conflict of interest, and he had to drop out.

He began developing a 3D library for "toy games," but this was just an elaborate ruse. In fact, the 3D library was quite useful for (you guessed it) the FlightGear project.

Since then, his publically-stated stance of developing this 3D library for games got some notice from game developers that took him seriously, and in the vein of "self-fulfilling prophecies" his libraries became quite good at their officially-stated purpose.

Steve Baker is one of the little heroes in my own personal list of little heroes, which would include a whole lot of names no-one knows despite the fact that they're extremely important in the open source world.

(sigh) Thanks, Steve et al.

--
fifth sigma, inc.

There is by giarcffej · 2003-03-18 11:54 · Score: 1

There is a MMORPG already available for Linux A Tale in the Desert.

In addition there is a MMORPG company, Lyra Studios, which wants someone to port their game client for Underlight to Linux. Underlight is a pretty cool MMORPG which actually focuses on *gasp* Role-Playing and player interaction. It's pretty cool, and they just need someone with the necessary experience to port it. So, if you are a Game Programmer with experience in DirectX and OpenGL and such, and would like to help out with this, contact Lyra.

Note: I am not a Lyra Employee, I'm just someone who really likes Underlight, and would love to play it under his OS of choice.

Re:And since they don't seem to have any game idea by Spoing · 2003-03-18 12:46 · Score: 1

The default user name for the Linux port of Serious Sam: The second encounter is "Serious Penguin". (Thanks Icculus!)

http://icculus.org/updates/ssam

http://icculus.org/news/news.php?id=1324

--
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.

Artists? Musicians? Writers? by j1mmy · 2003-03-18 14:08 · Score: 1

Games are more than code. This team seems unbalanced.

Re:Artists? Musicians? Writers? by sbaker · 2003-03-18 16:48 · Score: 1

The coders have made this abundantly clear - this will get fixed.

--
www.sjbaker.org

Surprised by unborn · 2003-03-18 14:12 · Score: 1

I am surprised almost no one noticed that one of the guys is a software engineer at an internal Microsoft graphics department.

It shows that either the Slashdot public doesn't read the articles, or it has matured enough to not pay attention to such "exotic" details.

I myself have obviosly not matured.

Selling free software. by R0 · 2003-03-18 14:32 · Score: 1

Would it be possible to make money on a commercial quality game under the GPL? (Understandably, I don't think LGP is willing to find out. Just like Sunspire Studios...(tuxracer))

The GPL is geared towards a single sale - great for a lot of software, but obviously not for games (unless you're promoting hardware). Once one copy is out, you no-longer have total distribution control.

AFAIK we are left with the following options (please post any I've missed):

Purely donations/download charge (voluntry)

The Ransom model (we release when the money pot reachs $X. Blender Style. Except you don't know what you're going to get. If ever.(unless they release preview non-gpl binaries).

"Impure" Licencing. Like Quake - The code is free, but the artwork isn't. I think this is legal, but I'm not sure (in general. Obviously ID can "violate" their own copyright)

Adding value to something else you're selling. i.e. hardware or a service. Perhaps a magazine. I can't think of any relevant gaming hardware. This could work (short-term) with evercrack type games, and games with good, essential manuals.

Making it hard to copy because of size/tech. i.e. most people don't have access to a dvd burner. (Record Companies were originaly protected by this. Then they got copyright.) This wouldn't work because it would end up on a linux magazine.

There is an obvious parallel between this GPL copying/money problem and Illegal Copying.
I think the target audience of this awaited game are on average vastly more technically competant than any other platform - corupt cds hold no significant anti-copying value. The only protection is a respect for the law and the publisher - So why not use the "impure" option?(replacement free artwork would take time). I think linux people would really apreciate the free code.

Where's the content comming from? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-18 14:39 · Score: 0

With all those programmers, I wonder where the creative content (art, sounds, etc) will come from. Usually leaving that stuff in the hands of the programmers results in shitty looking and sounding games. Like the majority that are already available for Linux.

As your sig says.... by The+Cydonian · 2003-03-18 14:56 · Score: 1

"A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire.

:-|

--
More than mere navel gazing.

Re:And since they don't seem to have any game idea by UPi · 2003-03-18 19:34 · Score: 1

Mortal Linuks is already in the making at http://apocalypse.rulez.org/~upi/Mortal

No penguins, though.

No women. by Malkin · 2003-03-19 03:54 · Score: 1

Maaaaaan, now I'm regretting that I didn't submit an entry. There are no women on the team! How depressing.

Re:Lemme get this straight. by blair1q · 2003-03-19 17:14 · Score: 1

Why was that a troll?

Are they paying those people?

And since when is 2 - 2 = -1 ?

Last Post! by alpg · 2003-04-01 18:26 · Score: 0

By the middle 1880's, practically all the roads except those in
the South, were of the present standard gauge. The southern roads were
still five feet between rails.
It was decided to change the gauge of all southern roads to standard,
in one day. This remarkable piece of work was carried out on a Sunday in May
of 1886. For weeks beforehand, shops had been busy pressing wheels in on the
axles to the new and narrower gauge, to have a supply of rolling stock which
could run on the new track as soon as it was ready. Finally, on the day set,
great numbers of gangs of track layers went to work at dawn. Everywhere one
rail was loosened, moved in three and one-half inches, and spiked down in its
new position. By dark, trains from anywhere in the United States could operate
over the tracks in the South, and a free interchange of freight cars everywhere
was possible.
-- Robert Henry, "Trains", 1957

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...

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LGP Announces Game Development Team

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