Firefly Coming to DVD

Its a shame by taeric · 2003-04-13 03:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

I know a lot of people were put off by the first few episodes not being that great. Personally, I liked the entire series, I was just not around much while it was on. I just can't understand why they would put it on during a Friday night.

Can someone explain the demographic they are shooting for with that time-slot?

Re:Its a shame by Photon+Ghoul · 2003-04-13 03:13 · Score: 2, Funny

The "Sci Fi Friday" demographic. They may have been trying to compete with Sci Fi's lineup. I think a few subscription channels have science fiction shows on Fridays (could be wrong as I don't have any).

It does seem like a terrible time, especially at 7PM my time. The people that may have watched it otherwise who get off of work around 5PM would have to race home to watch it (and I assume do whatever it is other people do when they first get home).

I don't think they are going for the market that actually goes out on Friday nights :)
Re:Its a shame by Noksagt · 2003-04-13 03:32 · Score: 1

I watched the first couple episodes and then abandoned it. I just couldn't get into it, but maybe I should have had more patience.

I don't think the show died because of the timeslot. Perhaps it would've done better if it played immediately before or after Buffy or Angel (yes, I realize those are on other networks), to get more Joss fans tuning in. I doubt it, though. Maybe they should have made the first episodes good?!

Other shows have survived that timeslot (X-Files comes to mind), and the interest for a show usually doesn't have much to do with the timeslot anymore thanks to vcrs, tivos, and the ability to download the show off the internet. Even shows which have been long cancelled or aren't produced in the US find life through tape-traders, ebay sales of VHS tapes, etc. I didn't see much support for the show in these ways either.
Re:Its a shame by cynan · 2003-04-13 04:08 · Score: 4, Informative

Wow, you couldn't be more wrong. Yes, you could be right that the show itself is partly responsible because the first two episodes were not as engaging and original as the rest of the show, but Fox scrapped their 2 episode pilot and they were forced to write a new one OVER THE WEEKEND. X-Files survived that slot with worse ratings than Firefly, probably because it was less expensive, and Fox was more of an up-and-coming network. And as to vcrs, tivos and downloading the show, you're totally off. Fox is a business. They make their money from advertising, and they use Nielsen ratings to decide how many people are seeing their advertising. They know people can avoid watching the commercials if they use a vcr or tivo, and they aren't even there if you download the show. Fox doesn't want to count those viewers. Finally, there is a groundswell of support for this show, especially given that it ran for only 11 episodes and the pilot aired as the series finale. Check out sites like fireflyfans.net, http://www.immantcreative.com/fireflysos/, and fireflysupport.com. As for ebay, it's pretty unethical to sell tapes. Maybe Firefly fans just have a conscience. There are many high-quality rips in circulation, including 800MB SVCD versions of all episodes. It's nice to see that Fox has at least seen that there's enough of a market for Firefly on DVD to warrant their attention.
Re:Its a shame by anorak52 · 2003-04-13 04:35 · Score: 1

Which demographic?

Car chases + explosions + gun fights + scantily-dressed young women = the "Room-temperature IQ" demographic
Re:Its a shame by jimhill · 2003-04-13 05:15 · Score: 3, Insightful

Once upon a time there was a little show called "The X Files". It had a quiet little time slot on Friday nights and against all odds, it became fairly successful. The numbers were small but the viewers were passionate and Fox said "Cool! Fanboys stay home on Friday nights for skiffy shows!" So in their finite wisdom they moved "The X Files" to Sundays and have sent skiffy-related show after show after show to die on Fridays because it turns out that "The X Files" was special.

Admittedly, some of the shows that have died have done so deservedly ("Freakylinks", anyone?) but programs like "Millennium" and "Firefly" and "Strange Luck" deserved better than to wither and die on the Friday vine.

--
Learn to spell: nickel, missile, lose, solely, amendment, speech, kernel, probably, ridiculous, deity, hierarchy, versus
Re:Its a shame by Noksagt · 2003-04-13 05:50 · Score: 1

And as to vcrs, tivos and downloading the show, you're totally off. Fox is a business.

I didn't mean to imply that Fox should have made a decision based on this kind of fan support. I meant that the fact that there wasn't more of this support went to show that, for whatever reason, Firefly's lackluster ratings were in agreement with the lack of fans. This isn't to say that there are no fans and that those fans aren't vocal (and, yes, they have shown this through making rips available & even selling/trading tapes, but there is still little interest in these compared to other shows). I think that shows that have had a bigger fanbase have been cancelled and the fact that many fans admit that it was hard to get into the show should make it no surprise that Fox, as a business, made the right decision.

As to the fans having a conscience, I doubt it. Seems more unethical to make high quality digital rips that encourage piracy and compete with the DVDs than to offer moderately priced tapes (to cover the cost of the tapes and postage with only a modest fee on top of this) to broaden the fanbase or provide people who are already fans a chance to see a show they missed. TV studios know how important demographics are, and if Firefly's fanbase was better (even if they were smaller), than other shows, the network would take it into consideration.
Re: Its a shame by Black+Parrot · 2003-04-13 06:09 · Score: 1

> I watched the first couple episodes and then abandoned it. I just couldn't get into it, but maybe I should have had more patience.

It definitely got better as it went. I was very dubious after the first episode, and may not have bothered if I hadn't been stuck in a room on Friday nights with a television to go along with the computer.

Also, since it was primarily about characterization I think you had to watch it closely, carefully, and regularly in order to "get" it. I think even the best couple of episodes would have come across as mindless unmotivated attempts at an action/thriller show, to someone who had just tuned in.

"Too good for television", as Bravo used to advertise its fare. In addition to FOX's disgustingly bad handling of Firefly, I think the show may have been too demanding of its audience, for a television serial. (Especially one shown irregularly and out of order, but also at an absolute level that transcended those problems.)

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re:Its a shame by DragonTHC · 2003-04-13 07:14 · Score: 3, Insightful

you got it all wrong. The fans were large and organized. They launched a massive campaign to help save firefly. This included sending thousands of postcards to the powers that be at fox and CBS. Most of those fans did not trade rips. I, however possess every aired episode on vcd. That's not to say that I won't be buying the DVD. I most certainly will, as will most of the fans.

--
They're using their grammar skills there.
Re:Its a shame by cynan · 2003-04-13 12:25 · Score: 1

to cover the cost of the tapes and postage with only a modest fee on top of this
What is this modest fee, eh? How are high-quality rips more unethical than making a profit (albeit a modest one) on someone else's creative effort? Granted, both are illegal, but until the DMCA it was pretty well established that copying copyrighted works when there was no money involved was "fair use". As far as Fox making a wise business decision, you're probably right. I never implied that Firefly was a good business move. That doesn't mean it isn't quality entertainment that should be on the air as we speak.
Re:Its a shame by cynan · 2003-04-13 12:35 · Score: 2, Informative

"We did [write a new premiere episode], because they wanted to make sure we could deliver the ... show with a little more action and humor than what I had originally pitched," Whedon said. "So Tim Minear and I wrote a script over the weekend. They told us on a Friday night that they wanted it ... in order to decide. ... They said, 'It needs to be on our desks before we get there in the morning on Monday.' I didn't realize it would be so instrumental in them actually picking up the show. But, yeah, a little pressure. But I love pressure. The two-hour [episode] might be a special event in the middle of the season, instead of shown as a two-hour pilot. I'm not sure if that's a final decision or not."
Whedon Details Firefly Flap
I can't tell you whether this is correct or not, but it's a direct quote from a fairly reputable source. You decide.
Re:Its a shame by Noksagt · 2003-04-13 13:03 · Score: 1

It does depend on who is doing the duplication. Many times there is no fee. Good fans will usually allow you to send in your tapes and you'll just have to pay postage. I obtained the Good Eats marathon this way.

The Sony Betamax decision made COLLECTING tapes legal & I don't think that noncommercial tape trading of broadcast TV has been challenged (which isn't to say that it is legal). The same can't be said for all digital rips. Studios have been fairly aggressive about making sure that digital rips of their intellectual property aren't freely and easily available. FOX hasn't been as aggressive as say paramount, but they have flexed their muscle.

The DMCA has provisions to make it easy for the networks to ask that infringing material be removed IF POSTED ON THE INTERNET. Also, some digital rips come from encrypted wildfeeds or copy protected dvds. Obviously, this would involve a direct DMCA violation. Most tapes come from broadcast feeds & sometimes even carry the original commercials & most who trade stop trading when DVDs become available on the market.
Re:Its a shame by cynan · 2003-04-13 13:42 · Score: 1

It seems we agree in principle, if not on the specifics. The mention of a duplication fee over and above media costs and shipping just raised my hackles. Anyway, suffice it to say I love Firefly, and if it weren't for rips on the net, I would never have seen it, because I didn't even know it existed until a few weeks after the last episode (the pilot) aired. And trust me, there is a strong fan community behind Firefly. They aren't up to the level of Farscape fans (producing and broadcasting an ad), but they did take out a $3,000 ad in Variety. It seems you can't view the full-size version anymore.
Re:Its a shame by Noksagt · 2003-04-13 15:11 · Score: 1

I did see that ad & you're right--that's a great sign of support that I forgot.

Incidentally, it is good that these DVDs are coming out--otherwise my significant other would almost certainly force me to download or trade for the show. She gave it more of a chance than I did & was hooked, but did miss an episode. I just watched the first couple aired eps, which many say weren't the best 'hook' for the series. I may become a fan yet!
Re:Its a shame by cynan · 2003-04-13 16:28 · Score: 1

You're definitely right about the first two episodes not being the best. I was just talking to a friend and new convert, explaining how episodes 1 and 2 are nothing special. Just wait for 5, 9 and 10. They are genius. And listen to your wife. She has excellent taste.
Re:Its a shame by patbob · 2003-04-14 06:38 · Score: 1

They make their money from advertising, and they use Nielsen ratings to decide how many people are seeing their advertising. They know people can avoid watching the commercials if they use a vcr or tivo..
Yup, you hit it right on the head. The Neilsen rating system discounts viewers who record the show for later viewing because they tend to watch fewer commercials. And the more intelligent, more technically savvy people tend to find ways to watch even fewer commercials. Now, if only more of use would be willing to watch commericals, good shows like Firefly could stay on the air. Guess they are just missing their demographic completely.. put sommericals on for the latest piece of technology and you'd have at least some of that demographic interested in seeing the commercials too :-)

--
Welcome to the net of 1000 lies. Upgrades are scheduled soon that should bring us to the 10,000 lies mark.
Re:Its a shame by mink · 2003-04-17 03:07 · Score: 1

Considering the 2 hour episode was in fact the pilot, as in it showed them getting together and such. Since the show had a story arc this needed to be shown first not last.

--
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.

Fox +1 by kewsh · 2003-04-13 03:10 · Score: 5, Funny

I give FOX a thumbs up for this. I mean they could have release Joe Millionaire on dvd....

Re:Fox +1 by nottestuser · 2003-04-13 05:28 · Score: 1

It'll probably be out shortly:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0 00 0694ZR/104-2178128-3191134?vi=glance

Firefly? by R-66Y · 2003-04-13 03:10 · Score: 1

Am I the only one who hasn't heard of this show? Does anyone have a better description than "space western"?

Later,
Patrick

Re:Firefly? by garak88 · 2003-04-13 03:21 · Score: 4, Informative

I really enjoyed Firefly and was very disapointed when it was cancelled. The idea of seeing the three unaired episodes really makes me happy. For those of you who don't know much about Firefly, its basic premise revolved around a trader/smuggler who once fought a secessionist war against Earth (heavily referencing the American Civil War). In describing it, the creator Joss Weadon said, "The idea that they may have invented cool lasers but not everybody can afford them is sort of the premise on which we work. Lasers take you to a science-fiction place that I feel has been covered too much." Firefly was the type of ship he flew. The first episode aired was terrible, but the show continued to get better and better. There were lots of subplots and so forth. One of the things I really appreciated from the show was they never showed sound in space, which was done very artfully and really added an eerie feel to the show. Over all it was very well done.
Re:Firefly? by Jethro · 2003-04-13 03:23 · Score: 4, Informative

"Space Western" works for almost any SciFi show. It was the original description for Star Trek.

While Firefly did have a lot of semi-low-tech frontier-town-like adventures, they balanced it off fairly well showing the high-tech rich worlds.

It's a real shame the pilot didn't air first. The pilot clearly showed that there are bery highly advanced worlds, full of high-tech. Unfortunately, many people don't like the opressive governemnt running these worlds and have relocated to distant frontier worlds, where they aren't as supressed by the government, but also don't have access to much of the advanced tech.

Firefly was a very well-made show. Fox chose to push the Space Western aspect, airing the more space-westerny episodes first. I guess they thought that'd be the show's gimmik, rather than really good writing and character development.

Anyway, yes, Firefly was a "space western", but not "just a space western". I think a better description would be "Really well written space western".

Another good description would be "The Anti Startrek". The ship actually has a bathroom, for goodnessake.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
Re:Firefly? by Noksagt · 2003-04-13 03:25 · Score: 3, Interesting

There are a ton of sites to answer not only this question, but the same question for MANY other shows as well. I won't remind you that a google search for firefly space western may turn up some infromative pages, but will point you to TV Tome.
Re:Firefly? by knightinshiningarmor · 2003-04-13 03:25 · Score: 3, Funny

New /. poll:

How many of you have seen^H^H^H^H heard of "Firefly"?
It's the best |..| 18 votes
What the @!%&#$ is that?? |.............| 8142 votes
CowboyNeal should be shot |...| 246 votes
Re:Firefly? by Scrameustache · 2003-04-13 04:47 · Score: 1

Am I the only one who hasn't heard of this show?

I would think that there are a lot of people who don't know that show. It was only on for 11 episodes...out of order, on a random timeslot, and not hyped very much.
It was also cancelled before they aired the pilot. Wich on a stupidity scale of 1 to 10 is an easy 15.

Does anyone have a better description than "space western"?

Yes, here is a sci-fi site with reviews of all the episode that made it to the air.

You can also read my journal entry on the subject.
Of course, I wrote that entry in a time long-gone when other networks were maybe gonna air it instead of Fox, but alas, that never came to be.

--
You can't take the sky from me...
Re:Firefly? by Darkninja666 · 2003-04-13 09:59 · Score: 1

Hey... Star Trek had bathrooms. That was the place they brushed their hair or noticed some time ripple(or other plot point) in the mirror.

--
Secure multi-mediation is the future of all webbing...
Re:Firefly? by Jethro · 2003-04-13 17:51 · Score: 1

I dunno, I remember seeing mirrors next to Kirk's bed, but never an actual bathroom.

--

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.

Additional Info and Help for blooper clip by Kaypro · 2003-04-13 03:13 · Score: 2, Interesting

Excerpt from AICN:

"Further to the piece about Firefly coming to DVD at some point, the UK Sci-Fi channel have now added the series to their listing for May. According the listings here they have it on Sundays at 7pm starting with the first part of Serenity on May 18th. In their forums they have also confirmed they'll be showing the unaired episodes!! YEAH!!!"

Also I have a blooper quicktime clip of FireFly which is pretty funny, but more often scary. Weighing in at 57.9MB, I was wondering if anyone would be willing to host it on a BitTorrent link for our fellow Slashdotians. Reply below.

--

Eddy.WriteLinux.Com

Re:Additional Info and Help for blooper clip by rf0 · 2003-04-13 03:21 · Score: 1

Cool. Now I know nothing about Firefly but always intesting to see new stuff. Still trying to get over the music from Enterprise

Rus

--
Cheap UK and US VPS

Ok Fox... by 13Echo · 2003-04-13 03:13 · Score: 3, Interesting

Ok, Fox...

Where's MILLENNIUM!?

Re:Ok Fox... by mako · 2003-04-13 03:32 · Score: 1

Now this truly was a great show. Right up until they killed off the wife and he went back to the FBI. What, did the show fire all of the writers and replace them with hacks or what. This is one I would definatley pick up on DVD as reruns are never shown unlike the X-Files.
Re:Ok Fox... by jmbauer · 2003-04-14 01:39 · Score: 1

Actually, that's exactly what they did. Wong and Morgan (who had previously worked on X-Files) were the writers for Millennium's second season, which I still think may have been the best season of TV ever. They found out that they weren't getting their contracts renewed with a couple of episodes left, and basically used the season finale to write the show into a corner.

Great but... by asreal · 2003-04-13 03:14 · Score: 1

This will be one dvd I'm sure to get... but I guess this means we can give up all hope of the show returning to Fox any time in the immediate ever. If they gave it a chance with a timeslot other than Friday night I think it would have done very well. Most people I know who gave it a chance liked it, geek or not.

--

What Future?

This is awesome...and odd... by Raleel · 2003-04-13 03:15 · Score: 1

I was telling my wife just a couple weeks ago I would gladly pay to have them keep releasing firefly, but on dvd...

--
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --

Re:This is awesome...and odd... by eMartin · 2003-04-13 06:16 · Score: 1

It is possible that they are doing this to get a better sense of the interest in the show. Who knows? Maybe if they see enough people buy these DVDs, they'd consider putting it back on the air.

Unfortunately.. by phocuz · 2003-04-13 03:17 · Score: 5, Funny

I live in a backwater communist country (read Sweden), so I haven't had the chance to see it yet. We're usually a year or two behind everyone else. It's quite annoying actually, since you usually manage to spoil half of the episodes just by reading stuff on the net.

Anyone with a well-paid job in the states who want to switch lives with a law-student in Stockholm? I have a cute girl-friend that would be included. Anyone?

Re:Unfortunately.. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-04-13 03:58 · Score: 2, Funny

Sweden is not communist.

Please don't lie to the Americans, they're already ignorant enough as it is.

Thank you.
Re:Unfortunately.. by Geekbot · 2003-04-14 12:54 · Score: 1

" Let's see, they take 70% of your income in taxes, and that's not socialism?"
Maybe we are socialists in America too then. Consider the 20something% you pay in income tax, then the 20something% your boss matches for your income tax, and how about around 5% sales tax, and how many of your income is going to that gas pump, lets tack on some more tax, how about those license plates (those are tax), and those letters you just mailed (tax), pretty soon you'll see that USA is maybe 50-60% tax on the lower middle class alone. I don't think the USA really has any ground to stand on criticizing the heavy taxation of another people. At least the openly socialist countries get something out of it like health care.

This is a nice thing about DVD's... by bitmason · 2003-04-13 03:18 · Score: 5, Interesting

It's apparently cost effective to release them for series that weren't on the air long and which will therefore be difficult to find even in syndication (which has traditionally at least demanded that shows be on the air for three years or so to sell). The other short-lived Fox show I'd like to see come out on DVD is Action.

Fox didn't handle Firefly particularly well but I'm sort of doubtful that was the reason for its demise at the end of the day. I sort of enjoyed it and found the characters generally appealing, but the whole literal Western in space thing took a REALLY massive suspension of disbelief. The whole economic system the show portrayed just didn't make sense (e.g. paying for an interstellar trip by hauling some cattle around). Etc. And it was reputedly a very expensive show to make.

Re:This is a nice thing about DVD's... by mako · 2003-04-13 03:30 · Score: 1

I blame Fox for this completely. Does anyone remember Space Above and Beyond? Personally I never paid it much heed until it was on Sci-Fi. That was a great freakin' show. Knowing Fox killed that one, Firefly never really had a chance.
The main problems I found with Firefly were based on the Captain being "too good". They tried to paint him as a renegade tough guy, but, then would not allow him to follow through in action. I think letting the show and characters develop for a season would have helped tremendously. Plus showing the episodes out of order meant that the audience was deprived of necessary backstory on more than one ocassion. Screw Fox I say. There is very little left to watch on TV.
Re:This is a nice thing about DVD's... by Noksagt · 2003-04-13 03:43 · Score: 1

It's apparently cost effective to release them for series that weren't on the air long and which will therefore be difficult to find even in syndication (which has traditionally at least demanded that shows be on the air for three years or so to sell).

This is quite true. The best example that comes to mind is the Clerks animated show from ABC. It survived for less than half a dozen aired shows, played out of order. The DVDs sold surprisingly well.

As for Firefly, I don't know what more Fox could have done for the show. Playing the episodes in order or a little more promotion would help. But giving Joss another chance when it had been proven that his shows aren't necessarily a 'match' for the network was good enough.

Ever since the third season of the original series of Star Trek, it has become fashionable to blame the network for killing a Sci Fi series. While it is sometimes true, I don't see most networks giving shows 1/4 of what they were promised, throwing the shows in timeslots that they can't hope to survive in, and 'forcing' the executive producer/creator of the show to leave by refusing to negotiate.
Re:This is a nice thing about DVD's... by Scrameustache · 2003-04-13 04:19 · Score: 3, Insightful

Fox didn't handle Firefly particularly well but I'm sort of doubtful that was the reason for its demise at the end of the day.

Seriously? You don't think that airing it on alternating weeks on a random time slot (8pm, 12:05am, 12:20am) is the reason for its demise?
How about airing episodes out of order so that they would talk about stuff that was supposed to have happened but we haven't seen yet.

How about hyping the girl in the box for a whole summer and then cancelling the series before even ever showing the girl-in-a-box pilot?

Someone at Fox wanted that show to fail. I dunno what they were shooting in their veins at the time, but they did everything in their power to make that show fail (12:20am! I kid you not!).

--
You can't take the sky from me...
Re:This is a nice thing about DVD's... by TheLoneDanger · 2003-04-13 05:10 · Score: 1

"I blame Fox for this completely. Does anyone remember Space Above and Beyond? Personally I never paid it much heed until it was on Sci-Fi. That was a great freakin' show. Knowing Fox killed that one, Firefly never really had a chance."

I agree that Space: Above and Beyond was great. And there's still no DVDs. Hopefully if Firefly does well on DVD, Fox will look at releasing S:AaB.

--

"But I trust in the people's capacity for reflection, rage and rebellion." -Oscar Olivera
Re:This is a nice thing about DVD's... by geekoid · 2003-04-13 05:13 · Score: 2, Funny

what firefly where you watching?

He kicked a guy into the jet intake, shot a guy in the head, left an old woman to die.. sheesh, what do you want? you want him to rip out there eyes an skull fuck them?
you didn't like the show, fine, but for TV, he was pretty much a renegade tough guy.

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Re:This is a nice thing about DVD's... by damiangerous · 2003-04-13 05:25 · Score: 1

reputedly ?, someone is making up words again.
They are? Damn those dictionary people!
Re: This is a nice thing about DVD's... by Black+Parrot · 2003-04-13 05:36 · Score: 1

> The whole economic system the show portrayed just didn't make sense (e.g. paying for an interstellar trip by hauling some cattle around).

Ever stop to think how much those ships that haul bananas around cost to acquire and operate?

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re: This is a nice thing about DVD's... by Black+Parrot · 2003-04-13 05:43 · Score: 1

> As for Firefly, I don't know what more Fox could have done for the show.

They said they were planning a media blitz for the last few shows (to regenerate interest after the three-week break at Thanksgiving), but that blitz in actuality consisted of some very sparse commercials on FOX itself. Meanwhile they were running commercials for John Doe everywhere, and saturating their own airwaves with commercials for it.

Someone a FOX didn't want Firefly to succeed.

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re:This is a nice thing about DVD's... by Rasta+Prefect · 2003-04-13 06:32 · Score: 1

Someone at Fox wanted that show to fail. I dunno what they were shooting in their veins at the time, but they did everything in their power to make that show fail (12:20am! I kid you not!).

Kinda like Futurama gets the timeslot of death after Football? I seem to remember something similar happening to Babylon five later in the fourth season (I actually thought it ended there. I didn't realize there was another until I saw it on TNT) but I don't remember for sure if that was FOX.

--
Why?
Re:This is a nice thing about DVD's... by Scrameustache · 2003-04-13 07:00 · Score: 1

Someone at Fox wanted that show to fail. I dunno what they were shooting in their veins at the time, but they did everything in their power to make that show fail (12:20am! I kid you not!).

Kinda like Futurama gets the timeslot of death after Football? I seem to remember something similar happening to Babylon five later in the fourth season (I actually thought it ended there. I didn't realize there was another until I saw it on TNT) but I don't remember for sure if that was FOX.

Ah! If I wanted to watch B5, from the start, I had to either tape it or stay up so I could catch it when it was on at 12:05am on tuesday nights (wednesday morning, depends how you look at it)!
Futurama settled on the football-overtime death slot, but for a while I'd stumble upon it on tuesday, wednesdays, or fridays...I think it changed days every week for a couple of months.

My theory is that its the result of internal wars. Vice Presidents torpedoing the shows of other vice presidents in their lil' dog-eat-dog corporate games. Pettyness seems the only reasonable explication.

--
You can't take the sky from me...
Re: This is a nice thing about DVD's... by Black+Parrot · 2003-04-13 08:57 · Score: 1

> My theory is that its the result of internal wars. Vice Presidents torpedoing the shows of other vice presidents in their lil' dog-eat-dog corporate games. Pettyness seems the only reasonable explication.

That's my hypothesis as well. You see the same thing with IT projects at big corporations. The corporate ladder gets narrower as you ascend, and the climbers feel a need to kick the competition off. You do that by making sure your pet projects "win" and the competition's pet projects get cancelled after haven spent a lot of money.

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re:This is a nice thing about DVD's... by Snaller · 2003-04-13 10:18 · Score: 1

The whole economic system the show portrayed just didn't make sense (e.g. paying for an interstellar trip by hauling some cattle around). Etc

Nobody payed for a trip by hauling cattle. They (the crew of the ship) was payed TO HAUL cattle. Because they owner had sold the cattle to someone on another planet (and as i recall that wasn't strictly speaking allowed)

--
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Re:This is a nice thing about DVD's... by mako · 2003-04-13 10:48 · Score: 1

Take a deep breath.
No. I liked the show very much. However, the captain was not much of a renegade tough guy and I wanted him to be. It was merely a critique. The examples you gave above were easy kills so to speak. Not too difficult killing a someone who is clearly bad or threatening. I have trouble citing specific examples not having seen the show for months. The best example is when Jayne betrayed the crew he should have been killed. Now I liked that charactor, but, I wanted to feel actual suspense in the show in contrast to Star Trek where everybody is always alright no matter what happens.
I bring this up only because it was my main criticism with the show as a whole. I was very disappointed that Fox didn't give it a chance.
Re:This is a nice thing about DVD's... by Fweeky · 2003-04-14 03:16 · Score: 1

paying for an interstellar trip by hauling some cattle around

Interplanetary. Perhaps even between two moons of the same planet; Firefly is set in a single terraformable-body rich system, with no suggestion of FTL. Plus there's no suggestion of flight costs or anything, plus it's fairly clear that decent medical facilities such as cloning are somewhat rarer than servicable spacecraft.

Frankly, I think it takes a hell of a lot less suspension of disbelief than Star Trek, or B5, and especially crap like Andromeda.
Re:This is a nice thing about DVD's... by Sgt_Jake · 2003-04-16 06:50 · Score: 1

I'm with geekoid, you're missing something.
He left Jayne in the airlock (we never find out for how long), he told the doctor that he was going to kill him (in so many words - he told the doc that the mechanic girl had died, the implication being the doc was next) as a joke, he was extremely rude to the priest for the first few episodes, called the hooker a whore on a regular basis, starts a fight in an aliance bar every year for kicks, told the mechanic she'd look like a sheep walking on her hind legs in a dress... wow, there's more even, but I think the point is made.
I thought his character was very much the renegade tough guy, but yes he was a good guy. He carried a sense of honor and duty from his military days which I don't think in any way made him less of a tough guy or a renegade. Maybe you just think that renegades shouldn't have morals? (that's a legitimate position I suppose, but I gathered that you weren't buying that he was a tough guy or renegade, and can't for the life of me figure out why... he's practially the road warrior without the limp and less of a chip on his shoulder)

Fox -1 by SifuDave54 · 2003-04-13 03:20 · Score: 1

Honestly, I didn't like the show because it never really felt like space to me. Unlike say, Star Trek: TNG, the sets just felt really disconnected with what they were supposed to be (a spaceship, a town on a planet, etc.)

Re:Fox -1 by Pxtl · 2003-04-13 03:44 · Score: 2, Interesting

Honestly, the sets are why I liked the show. Star Trek looks like a cruise liner, not a military ship. FireFly is the first sci-fi where the inside of the ship actually looks like the inside of a real ship - functional, cheap, and not as many windows as people would like. And the freaking sofas and normal terrestrial furniture/decorations reinforce that.

I loved how FireFly's ship just seemed so real. A ship I could finally believe.
Re:Fox -1 by Buzz_Litebeer · 2003-04-13 05:13 · Score: 1

Well not really, the enterprise looked like a Flagship, which it was, really nice and sparkly on the inside. It is what the Federation WANTED everyone to see. It was clean, and probably had ensigns cleaning every spot on it every 5 hours.

What I liked about firefly is the ship looked like the ship you would have if you somehow were trucking around in space.

Dirty, not tidy all the time, probably needing a new coat of paint but you aint got the money kinda thing.

It was well taken care of overall, but by no means clean because you want to have as much free time as possible ;-0

thats why I liked the firefly SHIP. Because it wasnt the hyper clean sterile environment, though they did have that feeling in the alliance ship, and on the tech planets.

--
If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
Re:Fox -1 by Gudlyf · 2003-04-13 05:24 · Score: 1

And don't for get the "no noise in the vacuum of space" effect that I just simply loved. Little details like that made me appreciate the show so much more.
ST:TNG, although very entertaining, always had sounds in space. The last time I remember seeing the "no noise in space" effect was in 2001:ASO.

--
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
Re: Fox -1 by Black+Parrot · 2003-04-13 05:55 · Score: 1

> Honestly, I didn't like the show because it never really felt like space to me.

It wasn't about space, it was about people. They could have set it in the Danish Renaissance with very little change to what they were trying to do.

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re:Fox -1 by AutumnLeaf · 2003-04-13 05:55 · Score: 1

Oh boy. I can see it now on usenet news groups.

Star Destroyer vs. Enterprise vs. Firefly. That one will never die I bet.
Re:Fox -1 by Buzz_Litebeer · 2003-04-14 05:31 · Score: 1

real vessels are on water, constantly subjegated to SALT water, the insides of high class ships, say like the Titanic or its sister ships, was very elegant, and very clean.

--
If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion

Is Fox Releasing it for sure? by OS24Ever · 2003-04-13 03:21 · Score: 1

Meaning, is Fox the releasing mechanism or did they license the distribution rights to someone else and they're releasing it?

Kinda like Farscape. Sci-Fi Licensed season 1 to someone else, until they saw we actually bought the things.

Of course Fox will only make money off the one release since they were short sighted enough to cancel a decent show.

It wasn't emmy winning material mind you, but it had a lot of potential and was really getting good near the end (Which, irnoically enough was the fricken beginning if they'd aired it like they should have)

--

As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.

Re:Is Fox Releasing it for sure? by EpsCylonB · 2003-04-13 03:50 · Score: 1

Kinda like Farscape. Sci-Fi Licensed season 1 to someone else, until they saw we actually bought the things.

I don't think they do own the rights to any season dvd's, they certainly don't in the releases here in the UK.

In fact that sci fi don't won the rights to DVD's was probably one of the things that helped make up sci fi's mind to cancel the show.

Corrections by Kaypro · 2003-04-13 03:22 · Score: 1

The clip is in MP4 format.

It was given to staff and friends of the Firefly production team during the Christmas holidays as a gift.

--

Eddy.WriteLinux.Com

'Heart of Gold' and 'Trash' scripts by shine-shine · 2003-04-13 03:24 · Score: 4, Informative

The scripts of the three unaried episodes were auctioned on ebay and two of them were later released by the buyer. Go grab Heart of Gold' and 'Trash'.

This is awesome news by EvilAlien · 2003-04-13 03:24 · Score: 1

This confirms a rumor I heard (probably on /.) some time ago. I loved the show, I thought its juxtaposition of high tech and low tech fringe society was excellent. Not enough people gave it a chance. Those that did after I raved about it loved it, then Fox yanked it so that their stupid teen cop show spew could get the time slot.

I'll be buying one, thats for damn sure.

--
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'

Simple by Anonymous Coward · 2003-04-13 03:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

Stop and think about it for a second.

Cost to produce new TV shows and air them? Lots

Cost to release existing shows on a cheap meduim? Not a lot.

It's very simple.

I think I was right.. by beldraen · 2003-04-13 03:27 · Score: 3, Insightful

I had made a comment that the issue isn't that Fox couldn't/wasn't doing well with Firefly, it was that Fox new that reality T.V. had more bang for the buck. Since it appears that Fox tried to tell Joss what do to and he wouldn't, they were more than prepared to tank the show in favor of all this rubbish that has been coming down the pike. Producing a DVD for an "unviable" series I think proves that Fox knew full well the series had and has a following.

--
Bel, the mostly sane.. "Of course I can't see anything! I'm standing on the shoulders of idiots." -- Me

In related news... Family Guy on Cartoon Network! by phillymjs · 2003-04-13 03:31 · Score: 1

Figures that I've been waiting for months for the DVDs of that to ship, and now that they're being released on Tuesday the show is hitting the airwaves again.

To keep this comment on-topic:

FOX would just plain make a freakin mint, if they released all of their cancelled-but-loved-by-a-fanatic-minority shows on DVD. Where the HELL is my "Parker Lewis Can't Lose" DVD set, FOX???

Who did the special FX (graphics) for Firefly? by Cthefuture · 2003-04-13 03:32 · Score: 1

I thought the show was alright, not great, but just OK.

However, I thought the CG work was awesome. It looked like Trixter. Anyone know who did the CG?

Anyway, there was that one episode where the Reavers chased them down into a planet's atmosphere and the special effects were especially tasty.

And just in general the graphics were very nice.

--
The ratio of people to cake is too big

Re:Who did the special FX (graphics) for Firefly? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-04-13 04:34 · Score: 1, Interesting

The reason why the FX stood out was simple: Firefly was shot entirely with handheld cameras... INCLUDING shots with CG composited into them. That's incredibly difficult to do in a way that it looks right, but when the artists pull it off, it's outstanding.

Expect to see the same technique used in Sci Fi's "Battlestar Galactica" mini this winter.
Re:Who did the special FX (graphics) for Firefly? by rakaz · 2003-04-13 05:48 · Score: 3, Informative

Zoic Studios does the CG for Firefly, Angel and Buffy (all Mutant Enemy shows).

Zoic was started in 2002 by Loni Peristere who previously worked for Radium and Digital Magic. Mutant Enemy already worked with Loni when he worked for Digital Magic and moved at the same time as Loni to Radium, so it is not a coincedence ME decided to move to Zoic after Loni left Radium.

More information about Firefly CG

Buy the DVDs, win a TV show? by Xenex · 2003-04-13 03:39 · Score: 5, Interesting

"...it seems that Fox has decided that there's not enough viewers to keep the Firefly series on the air, but somehow there's enough fans to make money off DVD sales. Go figure."

I'm going to be uncharacteristically non-cynical for a moment, and suggest an alternate theory. Perhaps Fox will see how many DVD sets are sold, and if sales are surprisingly high, continue the series.

TV production houses now undoubtedly see DVD sales as a huge revenue earner, most likely beginning to rival their traditional advertising and subscription income. Now, even if the series doesn't cover costs while being broadcast, the money from DVD sales could potentially more than make up for that. In that scenario, a series like FireFly would have a huge chance at success - but it would all depend on how much the fanbase truly does value the show.

The future of TV could become little more than DVD advertising, with the episodes shown on the air little more than fodder to lure people in. DVD sets then become the real product, and are sold riddled with bonuses, extra scenes, and eventually, as in this case, extra episodes.

So, maybe Fox will think there's enough viewers - if you cough up for the DVDs.

(Then again, what do I know? I've never watched FireFly, I have no experience with American cable TV at all! Armchair analysis is fun!)

Re:Buy the DVDs, win a TV show? by MeanMF · 2003-04-13 04:01 · Score: 1

I'm going to be uncharacteristically non-cynical for a moment, and suggest an alternate theory. Perhaps Fox will see how many DVD sets are sold, and if sales are surprisingly high, continue the series.

Don't count on it... Since the episodes are already made, the DVD's cost them next to nothing to produce. They'll probably end up making more money selling the "extra" episodes on DVD than they would have by putting the shows on the air.
Re:Buy the DVDs, win a TV show? by Aexia · 2003-04-13 04:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

Nathan Fillon, who played Captain Reynolds, signed for a pilot on another show in the fall. So I think that pretty much puts the final nail in the coffin.

But I think you're overestimating the importance of this. Fox already has these episodes in the can. It has nothing to lose by releasing them on DVD.

Staking the success of a brand new season on DVD sales would be a huge risk.
Re:Buy the DVDs, win a TV show? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-04-13 04:37 · Score: 1, Informative

No. The actors were released from their contracts and the sets were broken down and put in storage. Firefly is dead and gone.
Re:Buy the DVDs, win a TV show? by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2003-04-13 07:26 · Score: 1

Well, Futurama got a DVD release, despite its canning.

I read an article that said that last year's TV series video market was $2 billion US and the owners are starting to tap into this.

FOX has been notably proactive in this, most of my TV series DVD collection is FOX: Angel, Buffy (3 seasons so far), M*A*S*H (3 seasons so far), Simpsons (two seasons so far) and Futurama.

As evidenced by a little slip of paper they included in some of the sets, they have more, I don't have their Malcom in the Middle, X-Files, or Twenty Four, The Shield and Mary Tyler Moore.
Re:Buy the DVDs, win a TV show? by Babbster · 2003-04-13 09:14 · Score: 1

Nathan Fillon, who played Captain Reynolds, signed for a pilot on another show in the fall. So I think that pretty much puts the final nail in the coffin.
This is a good point, except that the vast majority of pilots are never picked up, so he could easily be available in time to film new episodes for a resurrected Firefly.
Of course, I consider this to be pie in the sky, Fillion pilot or not, but we can all dare to dream.
Re:Buy the DVDs, win a TV show? by jgerry · 2003-04-14 04:57 · Score: 1

...even if the series doesn't cover costs while being broadcast, the money from DVD sales could potentially more than make up for that.

For the most part, TV shows don't cover their costs from broadcast revenues anymore. Pretty much all "traditional" TV shows (i.e. sitcoms like Friends, etc) cost more to produce than they make in revenue. The producers of these shows are banking on putting the shows into syndication, where they sell the rights to re-broadcast them to the local network affiliates in each TV market. That's where most of their revenue is made. I'm not sure about these reality shows, they are obviously very cheap to make, and the producers love that. Less $$$ outlay up front.

A show like a sitcom generally needs about 100 episodes in the can to be commercially viable as a syndication property. At approx. 26 episodes per year, you hit that mark after your 4th season. That's also why you hear about all the actors and crew having a big party as they cross the threshhold of 100 episodes. It's not just an anniversary, it's a pretty solid guarantee that you're going to make some serious money in the future off of programming that you're already paid for. Must be a nice feeling!

Maybe DVD sales will help offset those production costs as well, and I'm happy to help out those shows. Futurama on DVD anyone? Thanks Fox!

Good show! by ender_wiggins · 2003-04-13 03:41 · Score: 1

Christina Hendricks episode was the best! She is such a hottie! I miss that show, compaired to the friday night lineup now. Maybe scifi will pick it up.

Re:Good show! by Scrameustache · 2003-04-13 04:27 · Score: 1

Maybe scifi will pick it up.

Nope
All the networks passed up on it (the show costs 2 millions per episode...they'll do cheap-ass "reality" tv instead).

Sci-fi has decided to move away from "space" shows. The reason for this move is up to debate, personally I think they had a bad batch of crack and are now brain dammaged (sci-fi is moving away from space shows???).

--
You can't take the sky from me...

Commentary Tracks by Momomoto · 2003-04-13 03:42 · Score: 3, Funny

Adam Baldwin (Jayne) said on the Fox Firefly message board that one of the commentary tracks was going to be the entire cast, plus Joss and Tim Minear (one of the head writers), drinking beer and generally mocking their characters.

Good times, good times.

--
"Max, come over here. French-Canadian bean soup. I want to pay. Let them leave me alone." - Dutch Schultz

bah, I already have the complete Outlaw Star by infonography · 2003-04-13 03:45 · Score: 2, Funny

Atleast the stories in Outlaw Star made sense.

--
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23

Re:bah, I already have the complete Outlaw Star by Rob+Simpson · 2003-04-13 08:46 · Score: 1

Outlaw star made sense?!
Re:bah, I already have the complete Outlaw Star by Dissonant · 2003-04-13 15:02 · Score: 1

That's what I was going to say!

Donkey Serenade by Anonymous Coward · 2003-04-13 03:47 · Score: 1, Funny

Is this the same Firefly DVD where Alan Jones sings the "Donkey Serenade"?

Very true by Kjella · 2003-04-13 03:52 · Score: 1

live in a backwater communist country (read Sweden), so I haven't had the chance to see it yet. We're usually a year or two behind everyone else.

Yes, and it's actually a common reason for why people outside the US download TV-rips and other stuff, because then they are "up to date" when they talk to people from the US, or "ahead" when talking to people at home. "I saw [series] yesterday, it's damn cool, you should see in when it comes on TV here...", you sound pretty l33t.

The cinemas are starting to figure it out with almost simultanious releases all over the world, but the TV world is lagging behind. I know at least that with the series I'm a big fan of, I'd always want *more*. So I can either wait until next week, or drop by KaZaA or DC. Nevermind that you also get them commercial-free and all the advantages a recording has over a broadcast (pause/rewind/jump) without dealing with a VCR or PVR. While not legal, I do know it's tempting...

Kjella

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings

Re:Very true by EpsCylonB · 2003-04-13 06:38 · Score: 1

The problem is with tv shows is you never know if they are going to get pulled like firefly did. Did Firefly even make it to 12 episodes ?, tv channels like to plan out their schedules in advance so shows are only going to be sold by the series, not show by show. Thats why we in europe have to wait a year or two (especially for brand new shows).

Fired up about Firefly by genessy · 2003-04-13 03:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

I see a lot of people knocking 'Firefly' around. They call it a ripoff or not entertaining enough or confusing. Wake up and smell the cow manure blended with starship exhaust.

What isn't a ripoff these days? Most creators of art even take the time to admit and thank those that influenced their work. Space westerns have been around much longer than, oh say 'Cowboy Bebop' for example. Robert Heinlein and other authors have explored that genre before. So what? If an old idea is done well, it can bring enjoyment to new people.

It may not be interesting enough to you. Everyone is entitled to their opinions ('specialy if they're congruent with mine). I find it quite interesting however. Science fiction blended with sociological aspects appeals to quite a lot of people. Remember, it was fringe groups that got many science fiction shows the recognition they deserve. Examples: 'The X-Files', 'Farscape', 'Buffy', just to name a few of the more recent.

Confusing? Okay, I don't have a better answer for this. You're confused and you read Slashdot? Do you have an interpreter?

Re:Fired up about Firefly by Chasuk · 2003-04-13 07:20 · Score: 1

As I understand it, the first episode broadcast on television WASN'T the first episode, but something quickly hashed together to please Fox. Otherwise, the series would not have aired, period.

Maybe if it had aired as Joss has originally intended, it would have been okay. As it was, well, I thought it was some of the worst tripe ever on television.

I sat down to watch Firefly with high expectations. I consider Buffy one of the best shows ever on television. Great writing, a superb ensemble cast, good music. As I am a follower of directors/writers rather than of 'stars,' I thought that Firefly was a guaranteed hit.

Nothing worked about the show. The acting was bad, the storyline wasn't interesting, the dialogue was terrible, and the music was mediocre. I can't think of a single redeeming quality.

I've been a Science Fiction fan for 34 years, and it is easy to list all of the good shows: Star Trek (for inspiration and impetus to the genre, if nothing else), Farscape, Lexx, Dr. Who (hammy acting, yes, but what a fantastic storyline), Babylon 5, Blake 7. Of course, it is just as easy to nominate the shite shows: Manimal, Automan, Battlestar Galactica, Quantum Leap, and Space: 1999.

Other shows - The Time Tunnel, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Lost in Space, and Land of the Giants - weren't really Science Fiction shows at all, but rather regurgitated Science Fiction tropes for an unsophisticated audience.

Anyway, that is my .02 cents. :-)

--
Neopets - the best free game on the Int

Parker Lewis Can't Lose DVD by Nachtfalke · 2003-04-13 04:04 · Score: 1

Hell yeah, I second that vigorously!

Isn't that what I said? by Xenex · 2003-04-13 04:12 · Score: 1

"They'll probably end up making more money selling the "extra" episodes on DVD than they would have by putting the shows on the air."

My point exactly.

Like I said, if more money is to be made in selling DVDs than broadcasting, broadcasting could simply become a means to convince people to buy DVDs.

Re:Isn't that what I said? by cynan · 2003-04-13 04:24 · Score: 1

I want desparately to believe you, and I don't imagine they're totally blind to the possibility, but in this case I doubt that's happening. With an ensemble cast of 9 actors, the chances of being able to get them back together, even after only a year off, would be pretty low. Granted, some of them are relative unknowns, but Adam Baldwin was in Kubrik's "Full Metal Jacket" and "Independence Day".
Re:Isn't that what I said? by mbourgon · 2003-04-13 04:30 · Score: 1

No telling - Joss keeps taunting us by saying (or having people like Adam say) that it'll fly again. The sets weren't destroyed, they were dismantled. Who knows...

--
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
Re:Isn't that what I said? by MeanMF · 2003-04-13 04:40 · Score: 1

Like I said, if more money is to be made in selling DVDs than broadcasting, broadcasting could simply become a means to convince people to buy DVDs

The only reason that they can make more money from the DVD's is that the show's run on TV was a commercial failure. At this point nobody will pay much to advertise during the show, so they're cutting their losses by selling directly to the public. With a successful show, they can make a LOT more money by putting it on the air, selling advertising, and later syndicating the show.
Re:Isn't that what I said? by cynan · 2003-04-13 12:45 · Score: 2, Interesting

I think if you read the full posting you'll see that they were actually destroyed. The wording was, "They did not fold and hold them..." They could certainly be rebuilt, though. And the latest glimmer of hope came just last week.
Re:Isn't that what I said? by Dissonant · 2003-04-13 14:54 · Score: 1

They've been discussing a possible miniseries, or even a run of occasional TV Movies. Yeah, Joss really wants this show back. Can't say I blame him, it's pretty goddamn good.
Re:Isn't that what I said? by cynan · 2003-04-13 15:03 · Score: 2, Funny

I think that's the first time I've ever heard someone say "goddamn" when talking about Firefly.
Re:Isn't that what I said? by Dissonant · 2003-04-13 15:35 · Score: 1

Haha...I'm a fan, that doesn't mean I'm a fanboy.

It will be shown in the UK by Snaller · 2003-04-13 04:24 · Score: 2, Informative

British SciFI have bought all of Firefly and will start showing it next month. Originally they were planning to show it in the same order as in the US, but when fans (from across the pond) started emailing them about the importance of NOT showing the pilot LAST (like Fox did!) they agreed to show the series in the right order (fancy that).

http://www.uk.scifi.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3 516

--
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating

Re:It will be shown in the UK by AutumnLeaf · 2003-04-13 06:00 · Score: 1

I have to agree that the order with which these episodes was aired was an atrocious decision by Fox. By the time the very good character-oriented episodes aired, the initial "surge" of viewship checking out the new show was over. Many people had decided they didn't like it.

I'm really annoyed that I didn't get to know more about Shepard's real story. I thought he might be some sort of Marshall type...

As good and interesting as CSI is, I think people need to remember that CSI has some great characters and good actors. The shows that have really endured, it has always been the characters who sustain it.

No One Watching? by malachid69 · 2003-04-13 04:24 · Score: 1

At first, we were very tempted to not watch it, given the western look-n-feel. We watched the pilot, however, and didn't miss an episode since.

If they want to know why no one is watching it, perhaps they should consider that it hasn't been on in months?

Malachi

--
http://www.google.com/profiles/malachid

Re:No One Watching? by Scrameustache · 2003-04-13 05:04 · Score: 4, Funny

We watched the pilot, however, and didn't miss an episode since.

Since the pilot was the last episode aired, that wasn't very hard to do.

Fox is stupid.

--
You can't take the sky from me...

Not really by Aexia · 2003-04-13 04:25 · Score: 1

There are superficial similarities in so far as they are both space westerns.

Otherwise, that's it. The themes, the characters and the antagonists are completely different.

Re:Firefly, Fox's real action rip off of Cowboy Be by Anonymous Coward · 2003-04-13 04:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

I am so tired of this fanboy bullshit.

It's always the same pattern:

"[TV Show/Movie] is a complete and utter ripoff of [some TV show or movie or book the fanboy irrationally obsessed about]" as if the latter was the first ever made with the themes or ideas in question.

You see, to fanboys, there is no history existing before the moment they saw the show/movie they consider the archetype. The entertainment universe simply cam into being fully formed at that moment.

Dude, I dug Bebop, enough to shell out semiserious cash for the special eidition DVD boxed set, but Bebop and Firefly are completely distinct shows.

Is Trigun a ripoff of Bebpo or vice versa?

It's like someone I know claiming the PS2 game Xenosaga is a Stargate ripooff because both start with the unearthing of ancient alien tech on Earth. He's a Stargate fanboy, so the idea of ancient alien tech on Earth came into being with that movie. Forget the fact that H.P. Lovecraft was exploring that idea in the 1930's, and the fact that Xenosaga then leaps 4000 years into the future and has nothing to do with Stargate's story. To him, Xemosaga is a Stargate ripoff because of a single common theme in the opening scenes.

Re:I didn't like it by Phosphor3k · 2003-04-13 04:29 · Score: 3, Funny

C'mon, tell the truth. You are just angry Firefly didn't have muppets, aren't you?

Re:Firefly, Fox's real action rip off of Cowboy Be by Phosphor3k · 2003-04-13 04:31 · Score: 1

Firefly would not have failed if there had been a Faye Valentine in it. I assure you, Firefly was no Cowboy Bebop.

Re:I didn't like it by EpsCylonB · 2003-04-13 04:32 · Score: 1

yes, but firefly isn't alone in the number of tv shows that don't feature muppets. We need to start a campaign, write to the advertisers, let them know that shows featuring muppets get higher ratings.

Re:I didn't like it by Scrameustache · 2003-04-13 04:37 · Score: 1

I wished they'd had a muppet reporter imbedded with a marine unit in Iraq...

--

You can't take the sky from me...

Re:I didn't like it by EpsCylonB · 2003-04-13 04:41 · Score: 1

yeah, saddam's statue falling to the ground and in the foreground fozzy bear going "wokka, wokka, wokka!".

Or maybe I am still drunk from last night.

Good news. by /dev/trash · 2003-04-13 04:46 · Score: 1

Now if Ground Force, and Northern Exposure would be released on DVD I'd be happy.

Re:Good news. by arazor · 2003-04-13 05:31 · Score: 1

>Now if Ground Force, and Northern Exposure would be released on DVD I'd be happy.

We haven't even got season 2 of Twin Peaks yet.

The first season has to go to be the most amazing TV transfer of any series I have seen.
Re:Good news. by /dev/trash · 2003-04-13 11:23 · Score: 1

Twin Peaks only last 2 seasons right?

Re:Firefly, Fox's real action rip off of Cowboy Be by buyo-kun · 2003-04-13 04:49 · Score: 1

Touche, most convincing evidence I've heard

Sci-Fi channel's problem.... by stuartkahler · 2003-04-13 05:35 · Score: 2, Interesting

is that they don't really even seem interested in Sci-Fi. John Edwards, Scare Tactics and the bounty of 'B' quality horror movies make up the majority of their lineup. They only seem to put up 2 hours of quality sci-Fi per week. Babylon 5, Stargate SG1, Farscape, Outer Limits... In the past 5 years they have had very few good Sci-Fi shows considering that they are called the Sci-Fi Channel.

I think if they had any real sense, they would negotiate hard for syndication rights for good, recent Sci-Fi shows that started on broadcast TV, or recent quality movies. How come TNN can get Star Trek:tNG, and the best that the 'Sci-Fi' channel can do is the ancient original with Kirk? They never seem to get a movie less than 10 years old that grossed more than 10 million in the theaters. In fact, alot of the movies they show had to bypass the theaters because they're so bad.

Sci-Fi's problem is that they think only single, dateless dorks would like Sci-Fi. They usually only have 2-3 hours of programming each week to promote their good shows in (on good weeks, no less). This is their 7-10 slot on Friday, the no-date loser slot where regular networks put their crappy shows. Sci-Fi thinks this is the best time to run their top-notch programming. There really isn't any reason to tune in any other time, so you only find out about their new shows if you are already very into one of their current shows.

Damn Straight! by Vagary · 2003-04-13 05:42 · Score: 1

Could someone fill me in on how this economics of the TV->DVD market work? I just can't understand why Fox would leave a show in their vault when an intern could have it burned to DVDs and ready to sell in a week or two.

Millennium was so loved that one of the major papers in Vancouver published fanfiction to finish off the series after it was cancelled. If Fox had have released the DVDs right away, they would have sold tonnes. Now I'd like to think it'd at least be worth their while -- Millennium is one of my favourite shows of all time and its short run means the full set should be affordable.

Please mod the parent up -- keep the dream alive!

Re:Damn Straight! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-04-13 07:09 · Score: 2, Interesting

re TV->DVD market -- part 3, profit!!, is questionable

First, when Millennium was ended, DVDs were not really all the rage, esp. full TV series releases. The cost to go to DVD was probably far higher than it is now. The transition to go to DVD was not on people's minds immediately (see third).

Second, Fox probably was trying to sell the series to some sort of syndication like market, for reruns, which is the traditional faire. They tend to make more money this way.

Third, if they killed the series so badly as you think, you honestly believe there was someone with a clue who cared about the series at Fox? Hardly.

Fourth, the contracts they may have signed may have been dependent on a certain amount of time before going to VHS or DVD. Or a number of years to try to sell before going to syndication. Time passed, now coming out with a DVD looks less bright, and in retrospect not coming out with the video sooner was a mistake. Maybe they had something else in the pipe, like a holding agreement on the video release of the series.

Fifth, they could have looked at the economics and seen that while assured sales figures were high (the fringe fan market if you will), the other potential buyers were iffy enough not to warrant the risk (lame excuse in my book).

Personally, I agree with you--stuff should go to DVD sooner. Millennium would probably have been a success; even now, still. Babylon5 come out after years on DVD (was on VHS) and seems to be doing reasonably, despite the time to DVD was a while and there is a dichotomy in whether people liked that show. Then again, I'm one of those people that think Season 5 of Farscape could have been a sequential release DVD and been able to recoup the costs of shooting season 5 plus some small profit (although interest lost from the time to sales might not have made it viable)--iow, release a DVD with 2-3 shows, wait until sales reach figures that recoup the shooting costs for those episodes (so people buy, knowing they support the show, and limit pirating) + 3/22 of that amount (since the last DVD released doesn't have this guarantee), release the next in line, etc., until all 22 episodes were released.

It's just depressing by bryanp · 2003-04-13 05:46 · Score: 1

to see a show this good tank after a dozen episodes when there's so much crap that keeps going. Ah well. I'll buy the DVD's and hope he does something else with it. Heck, maybe he could sell it to Dark Horse as a comic book series. I'd buy it.

--
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper

Re:It's just depressing by Midnight+Thunder · 2003-04-13 07:01 · Score: 1

Part of the problem is that they keep on playing musical chairs with the viewing times. Most of the 'dumb' programs get aired at the same time every week. Try this with your programs for 'people who think a bit more' (I couldn't find a more PC way of putting it :/ ) and you have to to hunt around to see where Fox has put it this week, or what football match is being shown instead. This is part of the reason I gave cable the boot. What I do want to see is either killed off just as I am getting into it and the adverts just kill me - like many people on /. I capable of concentrating for an hour without needing to get up, so the adverts, especially at the climax, just make me fed up.

I buy DVDs because there are NO adverts and I can watch them when I want. Sure I could record them off TV, but that assumes that the program is on at the same time as it was last week and that what ever sports match isn't taking priority. As you have guessed I am not much of an American Football fan ;)

--
Jumpstart the tartan drive.

old news... by Artifex · 2003-04-13 05:47 · Score: 2, Informative

It was announced on the Firely: Immediate Assistance mailing list some time ago:

2003-03-26 15:29:49 Firefly on DVD? (articles,slashback) (rejected)

--
Get off my launchpad!

Re:old news... by Golias · 2003-04-13 14:38 · Score: 1

Everybody who posts a "this is old news" post on /. should have their Karma bitchslapped into the negatives.
Slashdot was never a breaking news site. It's a digest of recent stories.
Nobody cares that you submitted it first, either.

--
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

Re:I didn't like it by AutumnLeaf · 2003-04-13 05:50 · Score: 1

I have to say I completely disagree with that. Firefly had it's funny moments, but overall the show was much darker for me. In Firefly, I got the sense the crew was struggling to survive. In Farscape, I'm convinced there isn't an econmy.

But to return to the original point, at no time did I sense Firefly was going for the camp, or tongue-in-cheek-winking laughs that Farscape went for.

Re:FIREFLY WAS A NERD SHOW RETARD by zzottt · 2003-04-13 05:54 · Score: 1

The only people who actually liked it are fat geeky nerds who dont go out on friday night
^^^ sorry Sir you are 100% incorrect, I am none of the above.
I am a Thin Geeky computer tech that goes out thursdays, fridays, saturdays and sometimes sundays.
I loved Firefly. Best new show of 2002...

Blooper Link by Anonymous Coward · 2003-04-13 06:50 · Score: 3, Informative

BitTorrent

Regular Link

Firefly was the ship class by zzottt · 2003-04-13 06:54 · Score: 2, Informative

it had a rep for being an illegal transport, because it had lots of places to hide things, if i remember correctly.

Re:Firefly was the ship class by xombo · 2003-04-13 07:37 · Score: 1

no, he means what is it, so you should have said, "A ripoff of Star Trek and CowBoyBebop on FOX"

Re:Firefly, Fox's real action rip off of Cowboy Be by buyo-kun · 2003-04-13 07:12 · Score: 1

That's because you're stupid. What amazing wit you have.

Re:Firefly, Fox's real action rip off of Cowboy Be by buyo-kun · 2003-04-13 07:19 · Score: 1

Is Trigun a ripoff of Bebpo or vice versa? Whichever came second is the rip off of course of course.

Seriously tho, Trigun and Cowboy Bebop were completely different, I don't think you can really call a show where they stay on one planet, never even going into space(expect for flash backs) a space western, more of a post aployticial western with left over tech and aliens. (Might not sound like much, but excellent series, WATCH IT) The big problem I have with FireFly is it came around just a little after Cowboy Bebop had stopped being praised all to high heaven. I think the main characters, and some of the idea, was changed, but it still started by taking off Cowboy Bebop and not admiting it.

Oh no! by ewieling · 2003-04-13 07:37 · Score: 1

Well, I guess I can delete my TiVo Season Pass now.

--
I really shouldn't have used someone else's email address for this account.

mod parent up! by Jordan+Block · 2003-04-13 07:46 · Score: 1

mod parent up!

No, sorry by phocuz · 2003-04-13 08:03 · Score: 1

I'm afraid her stunning beauty might harm your fragile mind. I usually send people to a shrink before allowing them to meet her, in order to know if they can handle it. It's just a precaution, I hate all those lawsuites. Sorry. =/

Blooper BitTorrent Link! by Kaypro · 2003-04-13 08:10 · Score: 1

Kudos to Anonymous Coward. Grab em while it's hot!

--

Eddy.WriteLinux.Com

Economic sense by fetta · 2003-04-13 08:18 · Score: 1

>> The whole economic system the show portrayed just didn't make sense (e.g. paying for an interstellar trip by hauling some cattle around).
>Ever stop to think how much those ships that haul bananas around cost to acquire and operate?

I assumed that genetic diversity might justify moving a herd of cattle to a new planet. Think of it like importing horses to the new world or new world crops to Ireland.

--
** The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not reflect those of my employers - past, present, or future**

Re:Economic sense by gilroy · 2003-04-13 08:51 · Score: 1

Blockquoth the poster:

I assumed that genetic diversity might justify moving a herd of cattle to a new planet.

Um, wouldn't you just ship the genetic material? Ova and sperm take up a lot less mass than full-grown cattle...

--
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
Re: Economic sense by Black+Parrot · 2003-04-13 09:11 · Score: 1

> Um, wouldn't you just ship the genetic material? Ova and sperm take up a lot less mass than full-grown cattle...

Probably so.

What amazes me is that so many people are willing to suspend disbelief regarding a psychic girl and interstellar travel, but then balk at the details of a fictional economy. What gives? Do we tend to nit pick the parts that almost conform to reality, while recognizing that the rest is so fantastical that it would be pointless and silly to criticize it as unrealistic?

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re:Economic sense by jeff4747 · 2003-04-13 12:06 · Score: 1

And what do you put the ova and sperm in to get cows?

We're talking about a new herd that was being sold to people who didn't have any cattle yet.

Awesome! by Jelloman · 2003-04-13 08:39 · Score: 1

I do believe that Firefly was my favorite show of all time. Not perfect - and I did love B5 while it was at its height (before the descent into TV movie style mediocrity) - but all in all my favorite. Great characters and character interaction. The writing made me feel like the writers thought I was an adult, and not stupid to boot; I can't think of another show that did that as well.

Re:Awesome! by Sgt_Jake · 2003-04-14 05:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

Agreed, that show kicked ass.

I signed up for a "fan club" over it, something I've never been a member of. Ever. In my entire (30 something) life. I don't even like TV, I'm only a moderate fan of sci-fi, but this show was so good overall I actually wrote a snail-mail to Fox (email too of course).
So good in fact that I procured the aired episodes via pirate channels, something I've never done for music or movies. Not out of some moral obligation, mind you, I've just had better things to do than shuffle around the net looking for crap to fill my brain with or waste my money on. As it is I got horrible copies (including the weather alerts and ghosting of the signal from whomever recorded it) - and I've watched them twice.

In fact, I've had a hard time finding anyone who DIDN'T like it -- at least for those who saw it since they jerked the schedule around so much. I know it was expensive to produce (2 mil per episode), but it had better ratings that the X-Files' first season (a show I only caught by accident). And that was with the scheduling snafu's... says something about the show and it's ability to flourish if given half a chance.

Another note, I've heard even FOX knows they screwed up, they just think it's too late to save now. In any case, yeah, I'll pick up clean copies. Bastards.

Sgt_Jake

Re:Firefly, Fox's real action rip off of Cowboy Be by Rob+Simpson · 2003-04-13 08:43 · Score: 1

I agree. Besides, if Firefly is a rip-off of anything, I'd say it would more likely be a rip-off of Outlaw Star. It even had a "girl in a box" and the authorities and pirates both chased them to get her...

This kind of thinking is kind of pointless, especially when all we got were a few episodes - no real way of knowing where the show is going. I didn't like Firefly at first, but by the end (or would that be the beginning?) I thought it was pretty good. It would probably have been a lot better if Fox hadn't #%@#ed with it.

Why does Fox have to cancel all its good shows? by etcshadow · 2003-04-13 09:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

It's really very sad and disturbing. Fox honestly seems to develop some of the best and most original shows that hit TV these days, along with some of the absolute worst crap. Why do they nearly always choose the crap over the good stuff?

Firefly is a great example. Do I have to mention Futurama? What about Andy Richter being taken off the air for this godawful crap "The Pits"?

*Sigh*.

--
:Wq
Not an editor command: Wq

Re:Why does Fox have to cancel all its good shows? by Brett+Johnson · 2003-04-13 10:37 · Score: 3, Interesting

Maybe Fox will release Andy Richter Controls the Universe on DVD, so we can finally see all of the unaired episodes. There were 3 or 4 episodes from last year that never aired, as well as 6 or so from this year that were judged too smart and funny for public consumption.

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2003-04-13 09:25 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Awesome show by Anonymous Coward · 2003-04-13 10:35 · Score: 1, Interesting

When I first started watching this show, I didn't like it at all (I liked John Doe). But after a few episodes, I was hooked. I adored Firefly, and it really sucked when it was canceled.

/. staff = morons? by bani · 2003-04-13 11:44 · Score: 1

...no news there...

DVD vs. Contiuing series by KoshClassic · 2003-04-13 13:44 · Score: 1

I'm not familiar with the details of the television business, but how much revenue can a show bring in per viewer? I bet its orders of magnitude less than the profit on each copy of a season pack of DVD's (which, considering that they tend to sell for $75-$100, probably means at least $20-$25 profit for the studio, though I'm just guessing). Ergo, probably only a small percentage of viewers would need to buy the DVD packs for the studio to make more money than they would producing another season, and this way they don't have to risk the cost of producing another season.

--
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Ambassador Kosh Naranek, Babylon 5

Somebody slap SciFi channel execs in the head... by Kevin+Burtch · 2003-04-13 14:35 · Score: 1

...and get them to do this with Farscape!

It's a great idea... they are not completely abandoning their fans (like SciFi channel is), since the show will still be available in some form.

--
- Preferences: Solaris 10 (servers), Ubuntu (desktops), Solaris 11 (personal servers) -

Re:MOD PARENT UP! by constantnormal · 2003-04-13 15:31 · Score: 1

I hate to wake you up, but you really should check out the Patriot Act, which (apparently - IANAL) does away with Habeus Corpus, and much of the rest of our Bill of Rights (by declaring that anyone designated by the Homeland Defense organization to be a threat to national security is not worthy of the protections afforded the remaining citizens by our laws), and is currently being prepped to be carved in stone by Orin Hatch, well before we see how well it works.

Power Corrupts, and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
The downside to being the only superpower nation on the planet.

Re:MOD PARENT UP! by Eskarel · 2003-04-13 16:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

hmm, lets see.

Freedom, well depending on how you define this, we used to have this, though we have significanlty less now than we did two years ago and are looking at even less. We're actually going to get Big Brother watching us pretty damned soon(TIAO), and I personally can't think of anything less free than that, especially since we're not even getting anything in return.

Wealth, well you can get wealth if you're born into the right family, or if you luck out, and assuming you measure wealth entirely by unecessary material objects. Of course this wealth comes at the price of making sure that at least several hundred other people don't get any of that wealth. Capitalism survives because it's likethe lottery, it offers people an astronomically low chance of upward social mobility which keeps the poor in line while not upsetting the rich.

Progress may as well be wiped off the list immediately since it's both hard to define and hard to place a value on, one man's progress is another's degeneration.

best of the best is merely American arogance, if you don't think there's anything wrong with America, then you've got to look around at the world outside you.

As for your arguments against socialism, we aren't all that far from the first two(though we're slaves to the protection of "democracy and freedom", neither of which we really have), we're in an economic recession which sort of implies at least temporarily the last two

That's not to say socialism is the answer either, Marxism is just as based on rampant materialism as capitalism is, and yes of course several millions of people have been murdered by communist systems, as they have by fascist systems, monarchic systems, and even supposedly democratic systems, people aren't terribly nice to each other. Nor does Marxist socialism actually exist now or previously in it's theorized form anywhere on the globe. That said, Marxism though it is certainly a failed ideology, it is a step in the right direction(if you don't believe this, look at how many socialist style reforms have been introduced into the united states and how many of your freedoms depend on those, particularly economically). There is value in working towards the good of the many rather than solely for your own gain, just as there is value in having the state play a much larger role in protecting the people from the economic excesses of big buisness.

I personally have almost zero faith in my own(American) politcal system, and just about the same amount in that of other countries.

Re:MOD PARENT UP! by Eskarel · 2003-04-13 16:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

Sorry missed a hit, soma comes from the book brave new world by Aldous Huxley. If you had read said book, it critiques a society which places primary emphasis on physical enjoyment and consumption and was a critique not of Socialism or Communism, but of the future of capitalist and in particularAmerican society. That is all.

Firefly is still on the air? by keyslammer · 2003-04-13 16:55 · Score: 1

Every time I tuned into the last timeslot I saw it on there was some other dumb crap on.

Oh well. Maybe this will get me to cave in and finally buy a DVD player.

First two sucked? by metamatic · 2003-04-14 00:34 · Score: 1

If it's true, then that's a shame. I watched the first two episodes, decided it wasn't interesting enough, and didn't watch any more.

--
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak

How long 'til season 2? by doggo · 2003-04-14 08:37 · Score: 1

D'oh!

I wish Firefly had made it. But then I wish Max Headroom & The Adventures of Brisco County Jr. would have made it too.

It's very disappointing that the STTNG franchise still pumps out the sewage that they do and stay on the air for years. But when you something that has real potential, the networks drop it. There's a long list of short run SF series that could've been contenders. BTW, STTOS is on that list.

Meanwhile, Paramount continues to serve up one steaming pile of tribble crap after another.

Thankfully, Red Dwarf wasn't raped by the American lowest-common-denominator school of television production, and didn't fly in the US.

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