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GNOME 2.3 Snapshot, KDE 3.1.2 Released
BSD Forums writes "The GNOME Development Series Snapshot 2.3.1 "Daddy Walrus", is now available. FreeBSD's Joe Marcus Clarke has ported this release (2.3) on FreeBSD and is looking for your testing help. Also, the KDE Project announced the immediate availability of KDE 3.1.2, a maintenance release for the third generation of this UNIX desktop."
for 2005 to come around, when I can pull them out of debian stable. ;)
I don't have a problem with that as much as I have problems with the UIs themselves. All those developers, and they still haven't been able to produce a window manager that I like better than OS X. ::sigh:: ...
-- shayborg
Buddy... If you have to explain whether some "computer system" has a "standard for a freaking UI" to *FRIENDS AND FAMILY*, you probably have more to worry about than the format wars.
S
I was reading all tha anti-radhat commotions regarding KDE and frankly I never understood what the fuss was all about.
But now that i switched to gentoo (this is not ment to be gentoo praise), i finally realise how much can i customise KDE.
But then again i am not sure if RH crippled KDE enough to be non-customisable.
ROCK on KDE.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
As opposed to, say, Windows, where you have the classic Windows 95-style interface and the newer Windows XP-style interface.
Oh, but perhaps you can claim that Windows XP has a standard UI. In that case, you can similarly claim that Mandrake Linux has a standard UI.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Isn't it fun to explain to how windows has no choice for a freaking UI to your friends and family?
Don't bother to install Gnome 2.3.1, according to Gnome's release schedule 2.3.2 is to be released in two days.
What's a desktop user to do if you're interested in American heritage and morality? It seems like the major choices for Linux desktop environments are between a European product (KDE and the underlying Qt library) and a Mexican product (Miguel's GNOME environment.) For those of us who are concerned about what kind of statement we make by using products from certain parts of the world, where does that leave us? Both Europe and Mexico basically told us to go eff ourselves during the recent liberation of Iraq. The UK was on our side, but the UK has never been heavily involved with the development of Qt/KDE.
Personally, I still find myself using FVWM. It's fast, lightweight, and (as far as I know) it's homegrown. However, it's old, and FVWM users such as myself are missing out on some of the newer Linux technology. Are there any plans for an American desktop environment? And do all Americans who are serious about boycotting products from states of concern really realize where KDE and GNOME come from? I think a lot of people might be unpleasantly surprised if they found out some of the things that they're supporting by using some of these foreign environments.
What is the expected release date of the much anticipated KDE 3.11 for Workgroups?
I assume that will be followed by KDE 95....
So when is the SCO Group lawsuits against Gnome an dKDe suppoed to be filed?
It seem SCO Group only considers suing the best..
Don't Tread on OpenSource
All this new GNOME and KDE stuff is great, but what I really want to know is, when will Ximian's release of GNOME 2.x be ready? Their GNOME 1.x release far surpassed what everyone else was doing with it at the time. If their 2.x is similarly superior, it's really going to be super slick.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
Speaking of Gnome or KDE, I'm currently evaluating Linux on the desktop for the company that I work at and would definitly be interested in people's comments or any resources that would help me make a determination of which desktop to implement. There seems to be a lot of "noise" when it comes to choosing between these two desktops and not a whole bunch of useful information. Any takers? :)
Honestly I'd rather have one UI I think is decent than a gazillion subpar ones.
-- shayborg
The link to the KDE 3.1.2 change log is missing in the story. And for the case you missed it, the KDE 3.1 New Feature Guide and the KDE 3.1 Screenshots are still available.
my ancient Sun box. And now I need to stop that and
install kde 3.1.2? Probably by the time I'm finished with
that the kde folks will be up to 3.1.3
Well, the good thing about GNOME is it won't compile
at all on my Sun box, so no need to even bother.
__________________ /
/ just great, another \
\ all-nigher emerge!
------------------
\ ^__^
\ (oo)\_______
(__)\ )\/\
||----w |
|| ||
Well, for better or for worse, here's my take:
8 761
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=64474&cid=597
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
>>> I have to say I'm psyched! And I just can't wait for 2005 to come around, when I can pull them out of debian stable. ;)
:)
what about pulling it right now?
just use unstable as i do... if you want debian as a desktop unstable is a very good choice, don't think this unstable would actually mean unstable in the commen sense.
in fact, it is even considered to be more stable that testing by many people (not all people, no flaimbait please)
The difference between KDE and Gnome is completely different applications that work with one and not the other.
For all intents and purposes, it makes them two splintered OS's. Both of which suck.
and these applications would be?
And it might already be there. Please let me know.
I want ARBITRARY keyboard shortcuts. I want to be able to write a shell script (or any executable), and have it execute when I hit (ctrl)-(alt)-w (My keystroke to bring up a vertically maximized terminal window).
I was quite scared with gnome 2.x when they seemed to take this feature away, but I found out how to do it eventually (gconf-editor under the metacity stuff).
Zapman
It was a JOKE. Thank you for your time. We all know about debian unstable, he was merely making an amusing statent. I hate these fucking human dictionary robots.
UI wars aside, KDE 3.1.2 still has an obnoxious bug. Please vote and/or comment at the given link.
KDE is IMHO awesome, but its habit of automatically switching focus to error dialogs on another desktop is driving me insane. Especially since, statistics aside, the switcheroo invaribly happens when I'm writing a Slashdot post, and in my furor hit "enter" just as a warning dialog comes up.
--
Just another 2 minutes that I should have been writing my thesis.
Anyone? Is there a Click' N Run in the house?
___ Shout Central - Crushes your nuts!
How can I tell how cool it is without screenshots?
Launch the menu editor. (By right clicking the k, then click "Menu Editor")
Select the progam you want.
Theres an option called current shortcut key. Click that and select the shortcut you want.
You should read the weekly KDE CVS Digest if you're so eager to read about new features.
work, you mean play solitaire in between reboots? ;)
anime+manga together at last.. in real time.
deb http://ftp.us.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.1.2/Debian stable main
And you can have the latest & greatest KDE running on stable.
I am glad to see Gnome has not bowed to market pressure and released the latest version as Gnome 3.
Unlike Mandrake 9 and MSN 8. None of which had version 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 etc. They just upped the numbers to match their competitor. (RedHat 9, AOL 8).
http://www.kubuntu.org/
I'd like to applaud the method the KDE team uses, releasing maintenance releases that focus on fixing bugs and improving stability.
I've seen too many patches and fixes that insist in introducing new components or functionality at the same time as a fix. The separation of "fix" and "feature" is a critical one for minimizing the number of new bugs introduced.
While KDE is by no means the only project where this is practiced, they are a big one and it is a method that should be praised and emulated whenever possible.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
http://saveie6.com/
Um -- I think your logic is flawed. I do use OS X on my Mac, but I also do own more than one PC. If you could inform me how to get the OS X interface onto my Linux machine I'd be very much obliged. Until then I don't think wishing for a better UI consitutes bitching about everything.
-- shayborg
We need one standard OS, one browser, one office suite, one directory service, one ISP, one network protocal, etc.
Before you know it you have a monopoly that looks awefully alot like a company in the pacific northwest.
Standards cause problems like what I mentioned above. Its good to have choice to encourage innovation.
What you like one gas company with one only standard automaker? I think not.
Which big tech companies are more standardizing on GNOME (and don't just produce some Gtk tools)? GNOME is only supposed to become the standard Solaris desktop, while HP has dropped their GNOME efforts. Why should your packet manager, which in large networks is supposed to run in console-mode, influence your desktop choice? The professional products of SuSE will feature Red Carpet and likely still default to KDE. Evolution's Exchange extension is proprietary, commercial and pricy. OpenOffice.org is not more supposed to be ported to GTK/GNOME than you're told for years there will be a GNOME Office. Does Gnome has anything to offer like remote desktop support functionality or a lock down mode yet?
The only difference between the Windows 95 and Windows XP interface is the look of the widgets. They are all still the same, in the same place, and even look like they did before, only colorful.
Oh, and the Start Menu has stuff that used to be on the desktop.
Is that all you have to offer? In comparison, Mandrake Linux is a composite of conflicting windowing libraries, desktop environments, and poor cut-and-paste.
"Sufferin' succotash."
...YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!!!
It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. -Frederick Douglass
Here are the basic considerations:
1: You should install both if at all possible. There is a large and growing level of interop between the two libraries, and some of the GNOME applications are extremely advanced and powerful (Gnumeric, Evolution, etc.) Also KDE has many applications, so you may want to use them. And if you have both installed, you can use KDE apps on GNOME and vice versa.
2: As for which one to use, I think you should evaluate both. Gnome 2.x and Kde3.1.x are both very mature and useable desktops.
Here is what I would do. I would take 10 employees that seem of typical skill, set up GNOME and KDE on systems, and ask them to evaluate their uses.
One think I will say as a network admin, though is that once the LDAP backend is completed for GCONF, that will be very helpful for network support. Of course until it exists, treat it as vaporware, and judge based upon the current capabilities, not the promised future.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Huh? KDE and GNOME do press releases as long as I can remember back.
I truly do not know what you mean here. Do you mean that, for example, the 'x' to close a window is in the same location in Windows 95 and Windows XP? Or do you mean that the Control Panel looks the same (sans more colour) in Windows 95 and in Windows XP? If the former, you are certainly right. If the latter, you aren't. You can modify the control panel in Windows XP to look more like it did in Windows 95 but by default, it doesn't look like it used to. IIRC, there are other significant differences such as where the 'folder view options' are located, the browser configuration settings (cookie handling and other security settings leap to mind, there could be other differences), etc.
In my experience, cut-and-paste works better in Linux in general than in Windows. I have often wanted to copy read-only text from a dialog in Windows and been unable to do so. I have not yet had this experience in Linux though there's no fundamental reason why this should be the case.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
MS office is the best office suite around! Therefor under your logic we should not use any other app but MSOffice. Oh wait it happens to only run on Windows. Well I guess we can ditch Linux too then. Wait we can't integrate our palms with outlook as well as windowsce, well i guess we can replace our pda's as well, etc.
I prefer choices and there needs to be a distinctive differences between products and standards. TCP/IP and HTML is not part of a product or owned by someone or some company. Its open.
MS Office is both a product and standard which is dangerous.
If there is no standard then I prefer competition. This is what gnome vs kde, vim vs emacs, c++ vs c vss perl, vs java is all about.
Bussinesses like standards in the short term but it is bad in the long term. Licensing version 6 is a perfect example. They wanted they got it! Now the price is so high that the support costs saved due to standardization is nill. Integration does not save as much money as MS would like us to believe. But the price is getting so high that any money saved is sucked out of their pockets.
KDE and Gnome or both products and standards. That is bad if only one existed. They are opensource which helps but SCO for example is part owner of trolltech. If kde was standard, SCO could throw a wrench and kill the linux desktop! This is just an example here.
See why this is bad?
But even if nothing bad happened to QT, its still nice to have innovation from competition. This is another benefit of choice.
http://saveie6.com/
Have they always been formatted like that? Most of the press releases I've seen basically say "Hey, look, new version. It's got neat stuff." This one is written in a particularly self-congratulatory manner. It sounds like they're in the commercial sector, trying to please stockholders.
[insert witty quote here]
The press releases have been like that since 3.0, I don't about stuff before that. They're just trying to appear more professional, nothing wrong with that.
Vote for global prefs bug
No, I suppose not. It just gives off the impression that they're more interested in business than normal users. I'd prefer to see a more normal (read: geeky and overly technical) post about it on slashdot, though.
[insert witty quote here]
> We're talking about CORPORATE use here, where having a commercial application with commercial support is a plus and where the best tool to do what I need is more important than wether its proprietary or not.
It's nice to hear that you would have no problem with Qt for in-house development too. Because I wouldn't know where to get commercial support for Gtk. Anyone else?
Ah yes, a wonderful window manager. Stil has a few bug and the development seems to have stop. Once you get use to EvilWM you hardly ever uses the mouse, just like it should be.
:-)
Personally I never liked the desktop environments. Gnome and KDE are big and slow, at least on my old laptop. They also use a lot of screen space on eye candy. However most people will never feel at home in WMs like EvilWM or RatPoisen. They where never meant to be the thing that would attract the avarage computer user. Would your mom use KDE or EvilWM ? Let us remember next time some moron suggest making a standard interface for Linux (*nix) that most of us love it because we can choose the environment that aid us best in our work.
KDE and Gnome are great because they make it easier for me to move my users from Windows to Linux, which is easier to administrate. And I win again
This might be interesting http://enterprise.kde.org/interviews/displayworks/
I have used Redhat 9 and Mandrake 9.1 and for a KDE user Mandrake is better in every way. The theme is easy to change and KDE just feels snappier compared to the one in Redhat. Plus Redhat decided to hide the "show desktop" icon in the panel, one of the most useful features.
KDE still has serious issues with stability, perfomance, and usability, and we should be focusing on adding features and doing large scale UI improvements.
:)
Hellooo, anybody home? Have you never seen a troll before, moderators?
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
This may be true but I've never seen any examples of it. I run KDE on my Gentoo Linux box. I have no problem installing and using Gnome apps such as Gimp, Gnumeric, etc. etc.
Oh, of course I need to have the Gnome libraries installed. But that hardly means I have essentially two splintered OS's on my system. I have one. When I fire up Gimp or Gnumeric, I'm not even aware (apart from the name) that these are Gnome apps. I run them at the same time as running, say, KMail.
So I'm not quite sure where you are coming from. Could you please explain?
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
If they don't start giving the users what they want, then I can see a fork coming right this way.
If there was going to be a fork, it'd have happened way before now.
... and GNUstep ... and Tab cola
It's hard for me to get into either KDE or GNOME. On Slackware, I'm faced with a huge array of package choices for both platforms; so it's hard for me to figure out which I can get away with not installing. So just to avoid having a system containing countless applications that I'll never use (like on Windows), I go with Windowmaker and a selection of dock apps. I guess I'm behind the curve.
*Fluxbox not KDE or Metacity. Eyecandy in the WM is pointless. Desktop wheeling, tabbed windows useful!
*Konq is the file manager. The rest of KDE is useless.
*GTK is the widget library. The rest of Gnome is useless.
*GTK AA-text and font-prefs work without launching gnome-control-center when not running Gnome.
*MozFirebird is the browser, with proper native GTK widgets. (XULGlade Theme?)
*OpenOffice document engine & rendering engine with Gnumeric or Abiword interface.
*QT becomes a theming engine ontop of GTK.
*Abandon all dockapps, panels, kickers: replace it with Karamba + OpenGL to compete with Longhorn & OSX.
*PDF viewer: rendering engine of Acrobat, UI functionality of KGhostview, using GTK widgets.
That's all I can think of for now. I hope you can see it in your mind now.
stability, perfomance, and usability,
>>>>>>>>>>
I get a lot of this handwaving and shouting. Precisely what do you want that XP has but KDE does not?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Has anyone gotten the Debian release to work? I got bogged down in conflicting prereqs and gave up.
Split pane support is useful when you want to be able to see both windows at the same time without having to manually manage multiple windows.
The nice thing about KIO is that almost all KDE applications use it by default. You can just open up a random KDE application (just tried with kview) and type a KIO url (fish://elf/storage/graphics) and it'll work transparently. GNOME-VFS does the same thing, but it doesn't have as wide a base of support. The main problem with GNOME is that far too few applications are "GNOMErific." Even now, Epiphany is the only web browser that really feels like a native GNOME app (HIG-ified and everything) and it's still rather immature.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
They don't allow you to modify the code and then redistribute their distro. This isn't about their lack of ISO's, this is about freedom which Suse drastically limits. I simply won't supports companies like that. .
I know most people could give a crap, but I'm not one of them.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
KDE would never implement Clippy.
The would implement Klippy.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
Oh, you mean like http://www.freedesktop.org/?
Oh really. So you'll be interested to know that kde 3.1.2 is not a development release. It's a STABLE release, in fact it's a bugfix release to a stable release which in itself didn't have any serious bugs. Just look at the changelog.
In fact, there have been several stable kde versions which have not found their way into debian.
If you want to stay away from development versions of kde, just don't install KDE-HEAD right out of cvs. Anything else is an excuse for, or admission of incompetence.
Liberty.
recently i installed gnome 2.3.1 kde 3.somethingsomething and pekwm. unfortunately they all have things going for them and i cant decide which to stick with so i have to keep them all.
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
You're not alone.
I always try the latest and greatest desktops, but keep going back to FVWM.
Nothing on the desktop but a pager, everything is in the root windows, including a handy tasklist. (like an auto-hide taskbar, 'cept better.)
I've got keyboard shortcuts to open all of the apps I use frequently.
FVWM would be perfect if only it had anti-aliased fonts...oh well. I can live with that.
If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
I'll see your love of anti-aliasing and raise you this:
Hardly a programmer but... I think Linux would be perfect if there was unified font rendering system as on Windows and MacOS so that every app had anti-aliasing support on par with MS ClearType without having to be hardcoded for it. But I suppose this is one of the advantages of going GNOME or KDE.
Hmm, didn't the XFree86 Group begin including an anti-aliasing library with X?
I also think the concept of apps being desktop specific should die. GNOME/GTK is better in this respect, short of a few problems your average HIGified GTK app feels pretty integrated. Just a few details left to hammer out.....
During the day?
I set of an emerge before bed, check my email in the morning. By the time I've finished work, it's time to goto bed again.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
The automobile will never be popular until it has a standard interface. I'm sick of having headlights controlled by a switch in one car and a
knob in another. Some have the doors lock with bottons and some with switches. Some have the tachometer on the left and speedometer on the
right. Some have it the other way around. Some have no tachometer at all! Sometimes climate control uses knobs, sometimes buttons, sometimes
switches, sometimes all three. How many different-looking stereos are there? Sometimes the parking brake is a pedal and sometimes it's a lever.
Come on people! Standard or automatic transmission?! Make up your minds!!! Unless we can agree, the automobile will NEVER gain wide acceptance.
The preceeding post contains large amounts of sarcasm is may not be appropriate for all readers. Don't run with scissors.
char *mySig;
I truly do not know what you mean here. Do you mean that, for example, the 'x' to close a window is in the same location in Windows 95 and Windows XP?
Yes, it is.
Or do you mean that the Control Panel looks the same (sans more colour) in Windows 95 and in Windows XP?
It doesn't by default. They designed it to be more user friendy, and you can change it to the classic view with the big link in the upper-left corner.
If that's your only argument--the organization of the Control Panel--I'm disappointed.
Your belief that cut-and-paste is actually better implemented in Linux simply because some Windows application didn't use the system's built-in cut-and-paste is silly. Copying text from one application to another in Linux is always an "adventure."
"Sufferin' succotash."
Okay, so let me summarise.
You claim that the only difference between the 95 style and the XP style is the look of the widgets. They even look the same now.
I show the Control Panel as a counterexample.
You, correctly, claim that it can be made to look the same (though not by default) but you ignore my other points such as browser configuration, folder view options, etc. while claiming I have no other arguments.
You state that Mandrake (which I no longer use, by the way) has poor cut-and-paste in comparison to Windows.
I point out that Windows apps often do not even allow you to cut and paste, and that I never have problems with cut-and-paste in Linux. For some reason, you think this argument is silly... Why? Why is this less silly than claiming that Windows cut-and-paste is better even though it simply doesn't work in many cases?
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Okay, so let me summarise.
If you must. You have no other arguments, so instead you must give me a run-down of our entire conversation for some unfamothable reason.
You claim that the only difference between the 95 style and the XP style is the look of the widgets. They even look the same now.
That's right. The difference in widgets is only in the look of them. They are in the same places and provide the exact same functionality.
I show the Control Panel as a counterexample.
Yes, you did.
You, correctly, claim that it can be made to look the same (though not by default) but you ignore my other points such as browser configuration, folder view options, etc. while claiming I have no other arguments.
Because "browser configuration," folder view options, and so forth are little-used features by the average Window user. I doubt 70% of Windows users have even bothered with them. They were such laughably minor points that I didn't feel they warranted a discussion. Apparently, they are all you have to offer, which makes your argument look weak.
Next.
You state that Mandrake (which I no longer use, by the way) has poor cut-and-paste in comparison to Windows.
Correct. It is true. Windows has an entire cut-and-paste subsystem. Linux apps are never a guarantee when it comes to copying and pasting. In Windows, I can copy pretty much any single thing that is highlightable and paste it anywhere else that would logically support the object.
I point out that Windows apps often do not even allow you to cut and paste, and that I never have problems with cut-and-paste in Linux.
You mentioned that you couldn't copy dialog text in Windows.
For some reason, you think this argument is silly... Why?
Because it is silly. Windows has an entire subsystem devoted to copy and paste, and you're going to claim Linux in some way has a more functional and complete cut-and-paste system, when it is common knowledge even among Linux users that such is far from the truth.
Why is this less silly than claiming that Windows cut-and-paste is better even though it simply doesn't work in many cases?
Because it does work in most cases. You and I both know this.
I can't even think of an incident in which it didn't work for me, but I can cite endless examples with Linux over the years, even under GNOME or KDE. You are just kidding yourself, or trolling.
Next.
"Sufferin' succotash."
I'm going to have correct myself. Apparently, font anti-aliasing has been included since XFree86 4.0.2 using FreeType
See http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/mini/FDU/ for the Font De-Uglification HOWTO
and http://xlife.zuavra.net/columns/20020521.php for XLife column on Good Looking Fonts in X Windows.
I've seen some screenshots of Mozilla and Opera with nice Windows 9x-comparable fonts-moothing.
X is the standard GUI for Linux.
Next.
"Sufferin' succotash."