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Corn-Based Plastic

SolemnDragon writes "CNN.com is offering up an article about the new corn-based plastic-like product being used at Wild Oats Natural Markets. The product looks like plastic, works like plastic... and then turns into compost. Dubbed the 'corn-tainer,' it's being used to serve foods, etc. Available only in the Pacific Northwest stores (of course) or you can make your own at home. And here's more info on Bio-plastic from MSU." Our older story.

305 comments

  1. I thought of a joke by Exiler · · Score: 3, Funny

    but it was corny, so nevermind

    --
    Banaaaana!
    1. Re:I thought of a joke by WormholeFiend · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      corny... corn dogs... octo dogs! http://www.octodog.net/index.htm (offtopic, i know... sorry.)

    2. Re:I thought of a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HEMP!HEMP!HEMP!Down with Dupont! Who do you think made hemp illegal in the first place except the rich man with a plastic crown. Seriously Hemp can do all of this and more, just it has already been derided by the plastic camp and does not hav as innocuous an image as corn.

    3. Re:I thought of a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cornhole plastic!?!? Mmmm, buttery fresh!

    4. Re:I thought of a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      friday night... came back at 5:13 too drunk to reply but still checking out /.

  2. Corn?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm a bit wary of the perceived uses for this "corn plastic". I wonder if this is just propaganda by the corn lobby to encourage or keep subsidies on corn.

    Remember ethanol? It was just an excuse to keep subsidies.

  3. How long till it decays by mpost4 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    will it be usefull for storing things for long periods of time, say you wish to store something in a bag (non-food) and leave it for years (lets say like pictures) will the bag decay on you? Will I need to use classic plastic to store non-food stuff?

    1. Re:How long till it decays by Josh+Booth · · Score: 1, Redundant

      I dub my parent post the first significant, non-corny post in this thread!

    2. Re:How long till it decays by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

      I have read a few months.

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    3. Re:How long till it decays by mpost4 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think they should look to get a plastic replacement that takes about 10 years before it decays, or some formula that will not decay till a special chemical is applied (but this one in my mind seams to be undesirable, because this just adds more chemicals to the environment, and if some slips by we still have the long lasting object)

    4. Re:How long till it decays by seanthenerd · · Score: 1

      What about liquids? I wouldn't want my corn-container to dissolve while sitting in my fridge!

    5. Re:How long till it decays by Jardine · · Score: 1

      If the soup in the container disolves it, you're either keeping the soup in there too long or you should look into how bad your cooking is.

    6. Re:How long till it decays by HaloZero · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What if such chemical were.. say.. methane? Naturally occuring, and is already ever-present in landfills.

      --
      Informatus Technologicus
    7. Re:How long till it decays by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      The short answer to your question is... it depends.

      Depending on the final processing of the PLA pellets, the time frame/conditions necessary for decomposition can vary greatly (e.g. amorphous vs. crystallized pellets, additives used). It's my understanding that PLA can even be formulated to last as long as "traditional" plastics.

      I was involved with the engineering and startup of the Cargill Dow PLA facility in Blair in 2001-2002. I had several opportunities to talk personally with some of the research chemists who developed the product formulations and perfected the manufacturing process.

    8. Re:How long till it decays by Herr_Nightingale · · Score: 1

      if WonderBread won't decay after years and years untouched in my fridge, I don't see why this stuff should fade any quicker.

      update: the Wonderbread looks a little mildewy around the bottom. Still edible though, as much as it ever was. Thanks for asking.

    9. Re:How long till it decays by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think the mildew is from the bread itself.
      Most likely, there is a small hole on the bottom of the bag and some liquid seeped in from a spill.

    10. Re:How long till it decays by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      I would think that people want the container to decay. Food doesn't last unless its preserved and even then it's not forever. Canned foods are only supposed to a have a shelf life of a few years. Some military rations can last 20 years or more. But after that who really wants to eat the food anyway?

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    11. Re:How long till it decays by Blackbrain · · Score: 1

      The company I work for is using this stuff right now for bedding material and packaging. It is my understanding that the product needs to be put into an industrial compactor under heat, moisture, and pressure in order to truly decompose. Under normal conditions the material retains it's shape indefinetly.

      --
      Where would we be if Wheel had hid her round rock in a cave instead of showing everyone how it rolls?
    12. Re:How long till it decays by DotComVictim · · Score: 2, Informative

      Brilliant idea. Difficult to work out in practice. Methane might react under high enough temperature, with an appropriate catalyst, but consider that most of the plastic hydrocarbon polymers in corn starch are going to be completely saturated. Saturated hyrocarbons won't combine readily, and in fact as the fatty acids in the corn plastic hydrogenize, they will become more solid and stronger (and less healthy for you).

    13. Re:How long till it decays by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      FFFFT.... OH SHIT! THE PC FELL APART!

      Oh well. It'll teach those arrogant little kiddies not to fart, I guess.

  4. Corny Subject by Luigi30 · · Score: 0, Troll

    What a corny subject.

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    1. Re:Corny Subject by Luigi30 · · Score: 1

      Troll? Bah. I'm more of a gremlin than a troll.

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  5. Preservatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the container for my food will start to decompose before the preservative-laden contents? Great!

  6. Did someone say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    cr0n?

    1. Re:Did someone say... by lgftsa · · Score: 1

      cr0n

      Right on schedule!

      It's about time someone said that!

      Does it keep you regular?

  7. Wait... by Tyrdium · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I thought that pens with the barrels made of a corn-based plastic have already been on the market for a few years... I remember seeing them in a few stores...

    1. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FWIF, I never have seen pens with corn-based plastic barrels, but I have seen pens with barrels made of recycled rubber from tires.

    2. Re:Wait... by igorxa · · Score: 2, Informative

      i had one of these pens, MANY years ago. and you can still get them. see here for at least one option. the barrels used to say that they were made of corn, and were biodegradable. they used to come in yellow bodies with green caps. not the prettiest pen, but at least it was environmentally friendly.

    3. Re:Wait... by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why does a pen need to be biodegradable? Why not just make it to last forever? It runs out of ink - you fill it with ink from a glass bottle. The bottle runs out of ink - you refill it from a tanker. The nib breaks - you fit a new nib and recycle the old one.

      Not rocket science, is it?

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    4. Re:Wait... by takshaka · · Score: 1

      Cornpens have been around at least ten years. People like me who had a habit of chewing on pen caps found that the cornpen doesn't stand up to much such abuse before disintegrating.

  8. Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This is one of those genuinely good things to happen, if it plays out as good as it sounds now. Nice to see good news at the end of the week.

    I wish we were as forward looking on legal products from hemp, which I would also consider a good thing.

    (Not a troll promoting or encouraging illegal drug use.)

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by GreatOgre · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, the best legal use of hemp would be paper (like the type the U. S. Constitution is written on) that holds up well over time. Then again, hemp paper + illegal hemp product = more high?

    2. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Wakkow · · Score: 2

      This isn't a troll... well, I guess it is, but it's a valid question.

      What's the benefits of hemp for making products? It sure seems to me that pro-hemp people work hard to make hemp work in a variety of situations not because hemp would do the job well, but just to say "look! you can do it with hemp! hemp == good!!".

      If it really is good in a particular situation and I'm way off, I'd like to hear..

    3. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by billstewart · · Score: 5, Interesting
      The best legal uses for hemp included smoking the flowers - that requires fixing the laws to match the US Constitution, rather than doing anything technical with the hemp :-) After all, the original copies of the Constitution seem to have stuck around long after anybody in government bothered to read the words on them. Other useful things to do are making hemp cloth, paper, rope, edible seeds, etc. However, I've found that hemp papers sometimes curl a bit too much in laser printers to work very well (or at least, they're not very useful for printing double-sided, because they don't flatten out as well for printing the back side.)


      However, using hemp rolling papers won't affect the THC content of your smoke, because it's got pretty close to none in it. The paper is made from those stems you didn't need, and it's made from hemp plants that were bred for big fibrous stems, not big tasty buds or leaves. As the label for one brand of hemp-based clothing says "Sorry, but you can't smoke your shirt."

      It's possible that using hemp rolling papers will make the contents burn faster or slower or hotter or less hot than dead-tree papers, but you really ought to be smoking from a bong or some other device that'll cool the smoke and reduce lung irritation. However, selling devices that improve public health by reducing the harm caused by illegal substances is illegal in many states, so you're not allowed to print out this message on hemp-based paper with soy-based ink to roll joints in.

      --

      Bill Stewart
      New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    4. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      It actually would be quite useful in a number of situations.

      For paper let's consider the fact that not all paper is of the same grade. There is packaging paper products, crappy paper drink containers at movie places, writing paper, and toilet paper. I personally wouldn't want to be wiping with hemp paper as it's a bit rough, but for packaging paper and shaped paper drink holders it'd work great.

      Some of the really great things about hemp is it doesn't leach minerals out of the ground at anywhere near the same rate cotton does, nor does it take anywhere near as long to grow as a tree. In fact, I may have heard it is the single fastest growing biomass plant in the world, though you may want to check me on that.

      The thing about it's biomass is that it can be turned into biofuel. Not totally sure how, but I know the idea behind it is sound.

      It's interesting to take a look at the prohibiton of hemp, which occured simultaneously with the prohibition on cannabis, and look at some of the people who contributed to it being made illegal. I don't recall all but I know Dow, some national wood producer, and some oil companies were involved. I think it's all detailed in the book "The Emperor Wears no Clothes" by Jack Hanna or something like that.

      My favorite website for news on prohibition, general civil liberties abuse, and marijuana is www.marijuana.com

    5. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by ruprechtjones · · Score: 3, Informative

      Most pro-hemp kids I run into don't understand the difference between legalizing hemp and legalizing THC-marijuana. I'm all for legalizing (and regulating and taxing) both, but I think that hemp has the greater value. If done right, growing copious crops of non-THC hemp could reduce our nasty habit of deforestation (to an extent) and really help out companies like Weyerhaeuser. It's not the end-all-be-all solution to cutting down trees, but it's a good start.

      The paper industries would benefit from the legalization of hemp, while the IRS would benefit from the legalization of marijuana. But it ain't ever gonna happen in our lifetimes.

      --
      Kip Hawley is an idiot.
    6. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by corebreech · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's The Emperor Wears No Clothes by Jack Herer.

    7. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      Hemp has strong, flexible and long fibers, thus the traditional use of hemp to make rope. Also good for other fiber related things, such as paper, fabrics and so on...

      I do not know how fast it grows, but faster than corn anyway, hemp is always twice as tall as corn stalks later in summer. Don't try to hide your plants with a few rows of corn, it will get too tall. :)

    8. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by zogger · · Score: 5, Informative

      Huge yields per acre without having to use massive amounts of fertiliser. Food, fuel, fabric,other fiber products,and plastics. Large variety of useful products from the same plant. Requires very little care. When I was a kid, there were still a lot of wild patches left over from world war 2, when they did an emergency "grow this stuff now" campaign after the phillipines fell to the japanese. No one thought about smoking it though, but I remember playing in one patch that was several acres, stuff was like 15 feet high or something, big plants.

      Farmers could even afford to only harvest half the plant, plow the remainder back under, thereby making your soil every year better, not more depleted, by adding more carbon back into the surface layer.

      It scares the monopolists. Places where it's legal have zero problems with it, none.

      Nope, government is a 100% complete %^&*&**( about it, too much money to be made keeping it illegal and keeping the drug war hype going, shoot, that was the really big police state push, they got everyone to accept all this gestapo SWAT team crap and whatnot with that artifical "threat". I mean, c'mon now, pothead terrorists? People who sit around and eat and listen to records? (well, that's what I saw in the olden days, maybe it's different now) And all the useful stuff you can get from it besides psychoactive? It's a joke, government is out to lunch on it, but, they dig those billions they make on the side and they get to build prisons and have new agencies and use up all that po-leece equipment they have kicking around the po-leece station.....

      My take is, God got all these things, they all got a use, we get to use them, use the planet, plus we are supposed to be neat, sorta take care of things too, there's our ecological balance idea. Makes sense to me.. We may not know WHAT some things are useful for yet-like chiggers, wazzup with them things?- but, everything is useful, and no government should say "no you don't", that's just bogus.

    9. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by BrainInAJar · · Score: 1

      Paraphrased for slashdot.

      This isn't a troll... well, I guess it is, but it's a valid question.

      What's the benefits of linux for running products? It sure seems to me that pro-linux people work hard to make linux work in a variety of situations not because linux would do the job well, but just to say "look! you can do it with linux! linux == good!!".

      If it really is good in a particular situation and I'm way off, I'd like to hear..

    10. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Fuck, after reading that post I suddenly got really hungry. Anyone got any doritos?

    11. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by macshit · · Score: 1

      Most pro-hemp kids I run into don't understand the difference between legalizing hemp and legalizing THC-marijuana.

      Really? Most hemp advocates I've run into talk endlessly about exactly that point (e.g., how very-low-THC varieties could be grown).

      I gotta admit, they talk a good talk; I'm looking forward to the all-hemp utopia in our future... :-)

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    12. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by rangergordon · · Score: 1

      However, using hemp rolling papers won't affect the THC content of your smoke, because it's got pretty close to none in it. The paper is made from those stems you didn't need

      Won't it give you a headache then?

    13. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by ruprechtjones · · Score: 1

      I had a bad experience at Hempfest, Seattle this year. Surrounded by a bunch of stoned, chanting kids (a derivative of the hey-ho, hey-ho chant, no less). They were approached by a reasonable guy who asked them bluntly what should be legalized, hemp for industry or THC-marijuana as a controlled substance, and they all shouted "POT, dude! I wanna wear my shirt AND smoke it!" I shook my head and thought that the hemp-legalization lobby has quite an uphill climb yet...

      but this is a generalisation.

      --
      Kip Hawley is an idiot.
    14. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you can have 3 or 4 harvests of hemp in one year.

    15. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by shadowbearer · · Score: 1


      Money, zogger, money. That's the real reason the Feds don't want to change the laws. I mean, think of all the unemployed DEA agents......ah, ok, probably the real reason the F. doesn't want to legalize weed is it would invalidate all this BS they've been feeding the public for decades, and we all know how the gov hates to have egg on their faces. Hmph.

      Now lots of cops I've met, especially in small towns, would like to see maryjane off the books. It'd give them more time to go after more serious stuff.

      F'eA

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    16. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you meant to say that the pro-pot kids didnt know the difference. Mosty people who spout the hemp facts usually know the basics.

      >It's not the end-all-be-all solution to cutting >down trees, but it's a good start.

      Lets see..hemp has about 4 harvests a year (and is the ideal rotating crop) and trees take a few decades to grow...
      Id say its a hell of a good start and finish to any tree vs hemp debate.

      zeke

    17. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      I mean, c'mon now, pothead terrorists?

      No one's ever claimed that. The War on Terror / War on Drugs crossover is "Drug dealers pay for terroism." Which, at the least, is plausible.

      Of course, the best way to fight that is to make Pot legal and regulated.

      My take is, God got all these things, they all got a use, we get to use them, use the planet, plus we are supposed to be neat, sorta take care of things too, there's our ecological balance idea. Makes sense to me.. We may not know WHAT some things are useful for yet-like chiggers, wazzup with them things?- but, everything is useful, and no government should say "no you don't", that's just bogus.

      To be blunt, not everything is useful. (Find me a good use for houseflies, for a random example.) And to be even more blunt, the government, as an extension of the people, can villify or criminalize anyting that it wants to, subject to the restraints of the people.

      Pot-smokers suffered a rather nasty PR loss about a century or so ago, causing the plant to be effectivly banned as a controlled substance. Since then, the flagrant violation of the law for purely "recreational use" has built up the old "pothead" perception, thus preventing any serious movement to legalize the stuff.

      (And the first one to make a "blunt" pun gets smacked.)

    18. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Find me a good use for houseflies

      No direct use, but flies are an essential part of the life cycle, as they break animal waste down so that it can be more easily re-used by plant species.

    19. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      chiggaz?
      chinese nigguhz?

    20. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Kaiwen · · Score: 1
      I wish we were as forward looking on legal products from hemp

      But here's where the hemp lobby shoots itself in the foot. The hemp evangelist who isn't in it with ulterior motives doesn't seem to exist.

      I did my undergraduate studies at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, which happens to be about six blocks from the state capitol. Annually, hemp evangelists would descend on the capitol building to hold what they themselves called a "smoke-in" (great marketing move, that), during which they would sit around smoking pot while extolling the virtues of hemp rope, hemp paper and hemp toothpaste. All the years I browsed these hemp fairs, I never found a hemp evangelist who wasn't also a pothead. Or a card-carrying member of NORML (which always seemed to be the main sponsor of these smoke-ins). The result was these folks had zero credibility.

      Lee Kaiwen,
      Taiwan, ROC

    21. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by ruprechtjones · · Score: 1

      I think you meant to say that the pro-pot kids didnt know the difference. Mosty people who spout the hemp facts usually know the basics.
      >It's not the end-all-be-all solution to cutting >down trees, but it's a good start.
      Lets see..hemp has about 4 harvests a year (and is the ideal rotating crop) and trees take a few decades to grow... Id say its a hell of a good start and finish to any tree vs hemp debate.

      bingo. what the anon zeke said.

      --
      Kip Hawley is an idiot.
    22. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by 1029 · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you want the whole story of hemp in America, get "The Emperor Wears no Clothes", by Jack Herer. Has the history, the uses, and the politics involved in hemp. Good read, and quite a versatile plant I must say.

      --
      - I love animals. I try to eat at least one a day.
    23. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Impotent_Emperor · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The thing is, just cutting down trees doesn't lead to deforestation. Usually, it takes either agriculture and urbanization in order to get rid of forestland. Forests have a tendency to grow back when humans stop plowing into the soil or constantly managing their lawns.

      Using hemp would be nice, but there are some problems. First of all, you need someplace to grow it. With genetically modified crops, we can grow more food per acre, and thus free up farmland to grow hemp. However, there is currently controversy over GM foods, so I don't know if we can definitely count on that happening. The alternative is to cut down forests in order to make way for hemp-farms. This is counter-productive to the goal of saving forests.

      On top of that, hemp is not nearly as useful as trees (note: this is a general statement, some trees are probably better for certain uses than other trees). Hemp has usually been used to make rope and sacks. However, wood from trees goes into building homes, furniture, and other structures along with the pulp we use for paper products (a lot of the the wood the makes paper is actually waste from mills that produce building materials) and is a cheap fuel source for developing/poor people.

      Hemp would compete with other crops for manpower and machinery because it is a seasonal crop. Harvested hemp would have to stored under weatherproof conditions while trees usually can be left outside with the elements. Hemp doesn't work with existing mills, so new, specialty mills would have to be constructed. Basically, we would need an infrastracture change in order to accommodate large-volume hemp production.

      Recently, I became a proponent of sustainable forestry (this is also where I got all that hemp vs. trees info). If people want to save forests, replacing what forests produce with other materials isn't the way to do it. If a tree has no value (can't turn it anything that can be sold), then trees will be cut down and replaced with something that will make money. If you want trees (and forests) to exist, then there has to be a demand for them. This seems like simple economics (glad I took that class) and seems logically correct (glad I took a Practical Reasoning class, too).

      As long as care is taken to make sure a forest is replanted after logging, forestlands can be sustained.

    24. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by timeOday · · Score: 1
      Nope, government is a 100% complete %^&*&**( about it, too much money to be made keeping it illegal and keeping the drug war hype going
      Why blame the govt.? Marijuana legalization does come up for a vote once in a while, and loses, though that Alaska margin in fairly slim.

      Also, I wonder if the drug war would really be all that different if marijuana were legalized... In fact here in NM every summer there's a "smoke-in" where people sit in the park and openly smoke marijuana, and the police just stand by and make sure nothing gets out of hand. There would still be a drug war because I can't see heroin or crack being legalized anytime soon, and our dealings with all those corrupt South American govts are mostly about cocaine, not marijuana.

    25. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by forgotmypassword · · Score: 2, Informative

      >>It's not the end-all-be-all solution to cutting
      >>down trees, but it's a good start.

      >Lets see..hemp has about 4 harvests a year (and is the ideal rotating
      >crop) and trees take a few decades to grow...
      >Id say its a hell of a good start and finish to any tree vs hemp
      >debate.

      First of all, paper companies have NOTHING to do with deforestation. They own vast amounts of land and at all times they have trees growing at various states of development. They cut a patch of trees down every day, let the stumps rot, and plant new seedlings. In fact, clearing land to grow hemp would do far MORE deforestation than growing trees!

      It is an absurd notion that a paper company would chop down random trees for pulp. Depending on what grade of paper you are making, you have to use a very specific ratio of tree pulps, cotton, and even things like clay (porcelin).

      Secondly, paper companies do not grow standard trees, and they do not grow them to full size. (you could make an analogy to poultry) They have specially bred trees that grow at several times the normal rate.

      I am all for legalizing and taxing the hell out of low-THC, filtered, marjuana cigarettes. But the paper companies and the educated ecologists don't give a shit, and they shouldn't.

    26. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by swordgeek · · Score: 1

      Heh. Hee, hee. HAH!!!

      Brilliant. Same argument, same non-sequitor.

      Thanks. Perfect amusing thought to head to bed with.

      --

      "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
    27. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by abigor · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't think you are very involved with the logging industry. In B.C., where I live, one of the largest paper-producing areas of the world, wild, old-growth forests are being pulped at a massive rate. These are, indeed, "random" trees, and it is not at all absurd. Pulp mills dot B.C. and provide employment for many people in many small towns, like the one I grew up in.

      The cutblocks in some of B.C.'s wild forests (not the tree "gardens" you mention) are big enough to be seen from space.

      However, in the southern U.S., there are tree plantations like what you're talking about. But sadly, compared to Canadian pulp production, they are nothing. I say "sadly" because really, how absurd is it to pulp wild forests for paper and diaper fill when a variety of plants (all you need from the wood is the cellulose) would fit the bill? These plants, such as hemp, could be grown in present farming areas and would provide a boost to local farmers. And they would not require further deforestation.

    28. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by cyko500 · · Score: 1

      Hemp does have quite a few good uses and it can be used to make products other than pot that are generally high quality, but the fact is that if growing it was legal people would be growing it to make drugs and using the leftovers to make bracelets and necklaces as a coverup.

      The whole "Hemp makes great products" argument is generally used by those who partake of the plant to justify drug use (via "We have all these leftover leaves, might as well use them"). Legal hemp is one step closer to legal pot use.

      I personally hate having my rights violated every time a breathe in cigarette smoke (life, liberty, and persute of happiness sound familiar? Smoke doesn't promote my health, I have no choice but to breathe in smoke in public areas, and having an asthma attack sure as hell doesn't make me any happier). I surely don't want people smoking pot around me saying I have no other choice but to "get high" because they want to.

      Smoking would likely be illegal if it wasn't such a nice chunk of the American economy. Legal smoking of marijuana would be the eqivalent of allowing people to run around injecting others with heroine and other non-smoked drugs. That's why marijuana is and will stay illegal; if you want to keep smoking it you can go chill with your friends and smoke illegally in private all you want and I won't care. Don't try to force smoking upon me though (and don't even think about saying "stay away from places where people smoke", because I actually have a life too). You may now flame all you like.

    29. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      Marijuana is a powerful drug. It makes people behave really irrationally even when they don't smoke it!

      The facts about cannabis hemp are not widely acknowledged, because it's illegal. There has been some literature, most famously The Emperor Wears No Clothes by Jack Herer. This book points out the coincidence {?} between hemp prohibition and the development of industrial competitors -- but is it attributing to malice what could be explained by stupidity?

      I firmly believe that hemp prohibition is evil. But every anti-druggie seems to think that I only want it legalised {for non-smoking uses} just so I can get stoned! Duh - I already get stoned, and it took the slamming of a cell door to remind me it was illegal! But there is no way I am going to eschew the wonders of getting stoned just so I can promote the virtues of the other things this plant is useful for.

      It would be entirely possible to drive a hemp-based-bodied car to a supermarket built from hemp-based bricks, stock up with hemp burgers and sausages, fill the tank up with hemp fuel on the way home and pay for it with money printed on hemp paper. Before drawing the hemp curtains, stripping off your hemp clothes and climbing into bed between hemp sheets, turning off the light in its hemp shade and easing the load on the hemp-fuelled power stations just a little.

      And if I want to have a chuff on a funny-fag every now and again, how does that make any of the above any less valid?


      Maybe what is needed is a technological solution to the problem of getting high ..... a machine that produces the same sort of effects on the mind and body as dope. It's got to really work, obviously ..... because then the playing field will be level again, once hemp is competing against technology on all levels. If people prefer the "artificial joint" to real ones, nobody is going to care about hemp getting you off your tits anymore ..... and it can be seriously evaluated once again.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    30. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by ch-chuck · · Score: 1

      selling devices that improve public health by reducing the harm caused by illegal substances is illegal

      All the above is quite true - not only is the most dangerous aspect of relatively harmless psychoactive plants the legal trouble it can get you into, the beneficient and protective govt. actually approves and sells products that cause many known health problems. Just like 'home brew' in the basement was popular during the prohibition years of the 20's (thank you for alcohol prohibition, women voters!) so you didn't have to support the local Al Capone making megabucks off the law, today it's the closet garden.

      On topic: New???? Someone in my family was giving away corn plastic stuff (like pens) for xmas over 20 years ago. Maybe this is a new formula or process.

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    31. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by forgotmypassword · · Score: 1

      I speak of only, by far, the LARGEST paper company in the world, International Paper - I am not talking about logging in general. They have trees all over the US, Brasil, Russia, and many other countries. The topic was paper companies for some strange reason.

      Now IP did buy out a company in BC named Weldwood that distributes pulp. And I don't know if that is the offender, but on the face of it, knowing all of the paper mills that I do, you are entirely incorrect about your ranking of paper pulp production.

      My opinion is this way for the following reason. IP is the world's largest paper company and most of their mills work like this: cut down some trees, replant trees, throw trees in large man made river, float trees down river to mill, ... Shipping pulp from Canada would just be too prohibitive.

      I don't work at IP, I just happen to be very close friends with a senior engineer, and I can find out within the week.

    32. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Herkules · · Score: 0

      "trees usually can be left outside with the elements"

      My moms husban dose small scale froesting and he can not let the wood lay around! Two things.

      1, Wood that lies damp might get tree eating bugs that will later spread to the serounding forest.

      2, To get a good price all millls want fresh wood 1-14 days! After that time prices fall fast do to quality faling.

      BR

      --
      CIA Factbook 2002 (US):"Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households
    33. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Herkules · · Score: 0

      "They have specially bred trees that grow at several times the normal rate."

      Hmm well i hope dose trees are not used for building do to the fact fast growing trees are much softer than say a slow growing oak!

      --
      CIA Factbook 2002 (US):"Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households
    34. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by emotionus · · Score: 1

      One of the recent anti drug commercials specifically said Don't smoke pot because your funding terroists.

    35. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Ashen · · Score: 1

      Smoking should be banned in TRUE public places- government buildings, parks, etc. As long as you don't include restaurants or any other business/privately owned location in that, then there is no argument. You don't HAVE to go to any of those places. I don't care if you "have a life" or not. You claim that people smoking violates your rights, but then have no problem violating their rights to smoke in private places that allow it. That's absolute hypocrisy.

      Smoking weed should be the same way. Who are you to tell people what they can and can't do in the privacy of their own home? Or why can't there be bars where people go and get high? It's a hell of a lot safer than alcohol. No one has ever died of Marijuana poisoning.

      Marijuana will stay illegal because of the widespread ignorance of it by people like you. The so-called "war on drugs" has been one of the costliest, worthless wastes of government spending in history. It causes the gigantic slums like east st. louis to be warzones and infringes on the rights of every citizen in this country whether they choose to smoke it or not!

      No one's putting a gun to your head and saying "smoke this joint", but you sanction putting guns to everyone elses heads and saying "don't smoke any joints, anywhere, anytime."

    36. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Ashen · · Score: 1

      The alternative is to cut down forests in order to make way for hemp-farms. This is counter-productive to the goal of saving forests.


      If our government would stop heavily subsidizing the agrilculture industry, then that would free up farm lands for hemp production as well. Plus, if growing hemp was determined to be more profitable than growing corn, a sufficient number of farms would switch to growing hemp until the profit was driven back down to a normal level. Forests would not be cleared out any faster than at the rate they already are.

    37. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They had zero credibility because they should have descended on the capitol building shouting that the government has no right to control what people do to their own bodies. That it's a crime that they outlaw one industry (hemp) while subsidizing others with OUR TAX MONEY.

    38. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if I want to have a chuff on a funny-fag every now and again, how does that make any of the above any less valid?

      *laugh*

    39. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by zogger · · Score: 1

      Heck ya, they make a lot more money keeping it illegal. And there's too much evidence that shows at a variety of higher levels they themselves are part of the smuggling efforts, and money laundering. So they get to keep industrial hemp off the market, have an aspect to the growing police state, and also make illicit profits. Sweet deal for them.

      And you are correct, most cops I know also favor legalization & decriminalization of hemp/pot.

    40. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by zogger · · Score: 1

      Lately I've seen efforts to link pot with terrorism. To go even further, they are trying to link "drugs" with "guns" with "terrorism", part of a conditioning effort to make it seem like they are "the same", I mean, that's an extremely normal advertising & propaganda technique,to use linkage, allusion, and branding. I've seen the ads, they will have a hemp leaf with a gun for instance. It's a clear cut demonization effort.

      As to the government making things legal or illegal, I'd say in a lot of matters now the federal government is way more a criminal outlaw organization than any sort of honest representative government. They have literally seized through coordinated large scale bribery, coercion, and fraud huge amounts of power that are not legally theirs. We really are supposed to be a more private person and then states first sort of day to day government, with the federal government having very limited-important, but severly limited-powers. It is so far into criminality I really couldn't even start to address it in a single post, and this is already a wide thread drift from corn and plastics. Here's a few major ones, illegal money,massive theft of property and conversion, maintaining a large standing land army, abrogation of most of our born-with personal rights in a variety of ways, claiming authority over huge areas of land that they have no legitimate claim or title to, and a variety of violations relating to the 10th and 14th in particular. Very long subject, really don't want to go into it, but as a default, no, I don't really think of this government as having any legitimacy any longer except they act as full bore terrorists themselves. Some states and local governments are still valiantly struggling to maintain the proper checks and balances, but it's quite the effort. There's some notable wins, for instance lately both hawaii and alaska have repudiated the throughly bogus and mostly completely illegal from a constitutional standpoint "patriot act", and it was just announced alaska has become the second state to have so called "vermont style" right to carry, which is really just a normal reading and interpretation of our second amendment right, if you can understand normal english.

      And yada yada yada, too much thread drift. I know the pro industrial hemp people are having a hard time, but I think along with every other niche political reform effort they would do better to join with other organizations and seek the common ground that almost the entire big mama suckah that is the federal government is so bad that it needs complete replacement with new people and a return to basic constitutional law, scrap all the UCC, and start over. That is my opinion, I know it is not shared by many, but the feds use divide and conquer too effectively, for every personal "win" back to normal freedoms and honest law, we have hundreds of losses. I do not think trying to change all the little tiny things is very effective, I think it would be way more effective to change the entire structure all at once, and because we already have in existence a basic outline that was proven sound as far as human written documents go, I would advocate just a return to that, and really pay more attention to the checks and balances aspect of government more in the future after the change back.

      We see this on a small scale with some software, sometimes new versions of software are just so stupid that it's better to take a big step back and put the older version back in. I see the current federzlgovernment as a rather dangerous, stupid and, well, just plain ignorant fork in politics. And I'm not being party-partisan either, I mean the structure itself, I claim it is illegitimate, that it's a junta, and only maintains itself through force, not through the allowance of the electorate. When people all over a more afraid of government, that's the dividing line into what we term as a dictatorship. I would maintain that most people have various fears of government now, and that the combined total clearly indicates it fell into

    41. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by zogger · · Score: 1

      I'll look for it, thanks. I tend to not buy many new books, but I use the library and buy used. I also need to get down with online books, I admit I've only read two so far, and I know there's thousands, I just find reading stuff longer than feature article length material on a screen to be annoying, still prefer to kick back with a paper based book. Or was this book printed hemp based? That would have been amusing and made a point.

      Tell you a funny, when I was a kid they showed us the movie reefer madness in school as a serious deal. I thought it was ludicrously funny. I had never even seen or heard about anyone smoking that stuff, but it was so hokey even a kid could see it.

    42. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by swillden · · Score: 1

      Smoking should be banned in TRUE public places- government buildings, parks, etc. As long as you don't include restaurants or any other business/privately owned location in that, then there is no argument.

      Eh? That makes no sense. You'd prohibit smoking in parks but not in restaurants? In a park, if I want to get away from the smoke all I have to do is walk 100ft away, or even just 10ft upwind. In a restaurant there's no escaping it. You can argue that I don't have to go to the restaurant, but I don't have to go the park, either.

      IMO, smoking (of anything) should be banned in all public places, which includes private establishments that are frequented by the public. The problem with smoke is that it cannot easily be contained, which means that it gets shared with whoever is nearby, whether they want it or not.

      You want to get use pot in public places? Two things: (1) invent a marijuana drink, or chew, or whatever (no needles, please, they create their own problems), so you can do it without making me consume it as well and (2) don't be a nuisance.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    43. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by swillden · · Score: 1

      I've seen the ads, they will have a hemp leaf with a gun for instance. It's a clear cut demonization effort.

      Someone's trying to demonize guns by associating them with hemp? I'm outraged!!

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    44. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by zogger · · Score: 1

      --I really couldn't completely say with absolute certainty about the ramifications of full legaliztion of everything. I would say that prices would drop to the point that very little violence or crime would be associated with drugs, at least from that financial profit angle. Socially I think you'd see a temporary surge in use of this or that, then it would settle back down to roughly what we already have. The reason I would say that is, well, it gets used now all over despite all their prohibitive laws and the excessive cost of having to deal with a "black market". And from what I have read before, if any of the numbers are accurate, the rate of coke use today per capita is roughly identical to back before it was made illegal.

      With that said I'll make a disclaimer, I think of natural plants as useful medicinal herbs, the refined substances as more worthy of an honest and non-corrupt effort by society and government to regulate, that's about where I draw the line, and I think that follows the basic guidelines of the constitution pretty fairly. I don't own or grow or use whatever anything that is currently classed as illegal, I just don't do those sorts of things, and I also don't advocate any sort of massive "recreational" use of any substance, or addiction, I am rather a prude about it I am afraid, have seen too many people I know go over the top with liquid drugs or dry drugs of various kinds, but I wouldn't make it completely unlawful, not when we have the obvious so called "legal" drug market being some sort of legitimate business. It's an obvious fraud,like the saying goes we have a war on "some" drugs. And we went through liquid drug prohibition, that should be a clear enough example I would think.

      And industrial hemp, to get back to that exact issue, I honestly can't see how anyone even remotely rational would be against it, and because we have extremely powerful persons and organizations who absolutely maintain it's some sort of heinous threat, I would describe those people and organizations who hold that view as to being so irrational as to be classed as dangerously and criminally insane, especially of they are any sort of official authority figure part of government, and that that sort of mindset probably also influences their views on a variety of subjects of importance, which would compound the irrationality. That's an opinion, and a strong one, but I see no need to disguise it, frankly, I think those anti industrial hemp people are completely *nuts* and have no business in any position of authority,and it's the same view I have of people who are addicts of either legal or illegal substances, I don't think they should be in any position of authority, and I definetly class alcohol right in there with any other highly addictive substance, legal or otherwise, which sorta makes me suspicious of the bulk of high level government because the alcoholism rate is so high in it. I don't trust them to make good decisions in other words.

      Yes, I know I am an opinionated extremist, that is my nature and I never hide it or deny it, that would be silly. I tend to be extreme on personal freedoms, honesty, and accountability when discussing business or government or politics.

      It also makes the internet and forums a lot more fun.......

    45. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      Yes, exactly.

      Look for the period in my first sentence. The claim is that the folk selling durgs are / may be funding terrorism.

      The post I was responding to claimed "pot-smoking terrorists", which was my rebuttal. It's not "smoke pot, be a terrorist." It's "buy pot, fund terrorism."

    46. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by roystgnr · · Score: 1

      My take is, God got all these things, they all got a use, we get to use them, use the planet, plus we are supposed to be neat, sorta take care of things too, there's our ecological balance idea. Makes sense to me.. We may not know WHAT some things are useful for yet-like chiggers, wazzup with them things?- but, everything is useful, and no government should say "no you don't", that's just bogus.

      You're high right now, aren't you?

    47. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Reziac · · Score: 1

      So for the paper/cloth/etc. hemp market, you *want* to be "down to seeds and stems again", eh? :)

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    48. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Wild hemp grows like the proverbial weed it essentially is. In a Montana summer it'll make 5-6 feet in a couple months. One year one grew alongside I-5 near L.A., and made around 20' over the course of a summer -- looked more like a tree.

      Multiply that by a few hundred thousand cultivated acres, and that's a lot of fibre to compete with the cotton and linen markets. (Not really a competitor to wool, silk, or most synthetics, being their useful spectrum is rather different.)

      As to the "War on drugs" issue -- I think that's mostly pushed BY *drug lords*, to keep the price structure artificially inflated. Legalize, tax, and regulate it the same way alcohol and tobacco are handled (including setting DUI limits for public safety) and 95% of the crime and social problems would instantly go away. Of course, so do all the massive profits, but what's that about legislating support for outdated business models??

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    49. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by abigor · · Score: 1

      You're correct, IP makes paper, they don't cut down trees, at least not directly.

      Canada is the largest pulp exporter in the world (at least as of the year 2000, the last year for which I have stats - 10 847 000 metric tons, nearly as much as the rest of the world put together). All of the pulp comes from trees cut in wild forests. The "replanting" is not good, to say the least (I was a tree planter while in university). Most of the pulp goes to U.S. paper mills. Much of it also stays here, of course.

      The current softwood lumber dispute between the U.S. and Canada relates to your statement regarding the prohibitive cost of importing pulp to the U.S. Canada's forests are incredibly accessible, and there are next to no laws regarding how to cut responsibly. Plus, there are very low "stumpage fees" charged to companies to cut trees - it's very cheap to run a logging company here. So for companies in the U.S. to import Canadian wood products isn't as brutally expensive as you might think. Of course, this isn't just pulp, it's also shakes and shingles, boards, and so forth.

      The way the U.S. does it, at least in some areas, is much better. There are fast-growing tree plantations in the south that are managed like farms. They allow quality control and keep the pressure off wild areas. Overall, U.S. forest management is decades ahead of Canada.

      Well, I'm a day late in replying to your interesting post - sorry about that!

    50. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by zogger · · Score: 1

      no, thought I made that clear, I just don't do drugs or alcohol. I wouldn't make them illegal for people either, we have enough real laws to deal with any crime associated with peoples behavior. For any government or society to deny that injesting in some form substances that can alter moods, etc is just silly, every human culture and society has done it. sometimes there's prroblems associated with it, but it's never to the point of being so outrageous that this or that actually needs to be banned, same as say "food" in general or any other human interest or endeavor, it just depends. On the lesser of many evils scale, prohibition styled laws cause more problems than they solve.

      As to my writing style, if that is what you are referring to, well, it's how I write, and my spiritual beliefs are mine, personal, once in awhile in public I will make a clarification as to part of my reasoning that leads to an opinion or conclusion. I think we have stewardship over the planet,it is in our care,and all the things therein,and we are free to use but not abuse. Even from a strictly secular viewpoint it still makes sense, IMO.

    51. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1
      I firmly believe that hemp prohibition is evil.

      Evil and damaging. I'd rather be making paper from hemp than chopping down trees, and clothing from hemp rather than cotton (a product they grow on Arizona despite its needs for large amounts of water (relative to hemp) and the damage cotton does to the soil in only a few years (again relative to hemp)).

      There is low and THC-free hemp usable for all purposes except getting high usable for these purposes.

      What I firmly believe is that the government opposes hemp production only because they consider it would be too much trouble to have to check all the fields to ensure that somone isn't hiding high-THC hemp among the crop. For that, we have the Pot Heads to thank.

      --
      "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    52. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by ajs318 · · Score: 1
      What I firmly believe is that the government opposes hemp production only because they consider it would be too much trouble to have to check all the fields to ensure that somone isn't hiding high-THC hemp among the crop. For that, we have the Pot Heads to thank.
      Why would they have to check for high-THC varieties exactly? Just what is the problem with letting people get high? If Blair gets his way with the "Twix Tax" {because it's not at all hypocritical to tax something that is bad for people knowing full well they will continue to do it and pour money into your coffers all the while they're at it, is it?} the Government could do very well out of legalising cannabis ..... to say nothing of the fact that once people are buying dope in licenced outlets, they won't be so easily coerced into buying anything "a bit stronger".

      Mind you, pot would cease to be an option for teenage rebellion once it was legal ..... but pretending something is really bad when it isn't that bad, just so you have something to disapprove of, is still lying and ultimately no good can come of it.

      Um ..... I just glanced sideways and saw the topic .....
      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    53. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

      and they have the superior firepower...sigh....

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    54. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by forgotmypassword · · Score: 1

      There are people at all time doing calculations. When the profit from paper is less than lumber, the trees are sold as lumber.

      Most of the paper trees are pines. They feel just like regular pines. Oak is expensive (in the US at least) and houses are generally not made entirely of Oak here. But maybe you are from Brasil or something, so I don't know how things work down there.

    55. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by forgotmypassword · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, I do not disagree with that statement. But earlier you remarked about "pulp production" and not exporting pulp. I am not aware of any standard paper mills exporting mass amounts of pulp.

      I think it is sad about the situation in Canada, and I will have to ask my friend about it.

    56. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Are you a pothead Fokker?"

    57. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Cheetahfeathers · · Score: 1

      Blegh. Smoke is nasty for your lungs. Don't understand why anyone would do that. Eat it.

    58. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Ashen · · Score: 1

      IMO, smoking (of anything) should be banned in all public places, which includes private establishments that are frequented by the public. The problem with smoke is that it cannot easily be contained, which means that it gets shared with whoever is nearby, whether they want it or not.

      That's the thing- private places are NOT A PUBLIC PLACE. Who the fuck are you to tell people what they can and can't do with their property and business? Don't like it? Start your own non-smoking restaurant. Welcome to capitalism, freedom, and teh responsibility of choice that comes along with it.

    59. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by swillden · · Score: 1

      Who the fuck are you to tell people what they can and can't do with their property and business? Don't like it? Start your own non-smoking restaurant. Welcome to capitalism, freedom, and teh responsibility of choice that comes along with it.

      So, can I start a "no niggers or kikes allowed" restaurant?

      In some senses I agree with your "let the market rule" approach, but the fact is that it's not the way things are done. In our society, and under the rules of U.S. law, private property that is used as a place of public commerce (in the sense that just anyone can walk in and do business, no special relationship or prior permission required) are considered public places. If you own a restaurant, you are *not* allowed to arbitrarily decide who can eat there or what they can or cannot do. You give up those rights when you open your doors to the public, or hire employees. You do retain some options, i.e. if someone is causing problems you're within your rights to ask them to leave, and if they don't, they're trespassing, etc., but you lose most of them.

      And, as my example above shows, there are some decided societal benefits to this approach. IMO, non-smoking restaurants and workplaces are yet another.

      --
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    60. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Ashen · · Score: 1

      If you want to sacrifice your freedoms at the whims of the majority, that's fine. I, however, do not.

    61. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by swillden · · Score: 1

      If you want to sacrifice your freedoms at the whims of the majority, that's fine. I, however, do not.

      You're being silly. Or not thinking this through, at least.

      Freedom cannot be absolute, it must be limited in a variety of ways, or society cannot exist. Would you like me to have the freedom to shoot you in the head? So it isn't a question of whether freedom is or is not limited by the "whims of the majority", it's a question of where the line is drawn.

      I'm pretty libertarian, and in general agree with the notion that you should be able to do what you like on your own property (or elsewhere, with the permisssion of the owner), as long as it doesn't injure or annoy others on neighboring properties. In public places, however, anything you do has the potential to injure or annoy, and we have to draw some limits around what is acceptable and what is not.

      I think you agree with that, though you might quibble over some of the words. The issue at hand, then, is not one of freedom it's a question of what constitutes a "public place". While you may disagree with the extant definition, and it's true that it's a position supported by the majority, it's rather silly to call it a "whim", since this particular whim has stood unchallenged for hundreds of years, with only minor modifications to adapt it to circumstances.

      What has changed recently is the public's understanding of tobacco smoke, which has changed its acceptability in enclosed public places, like restaurants.

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    62. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Ashen · · Score: 1

      I've thought this through plenty, thanks.

      Privately owned is privately owned.

      Freedom cannot be absolute, it must be limited in a variety of ways, or society cannot exist.

      Not being an anarchist-libertarian, I only barely agree. The government should provide for our mutual defense, and protect us from infringing upon the rights of each other. People smoking in a PRIVATELY OWNED restaurant is not infringing on anyone's rights.

      If I invite people over to my house for dinner and I allow people to smoke, am I infringing on the rights of the other people I invited who do not smoke? No, because they can leave. They didn't have to come to my home.

      If there was a demand for smoke free restaurants, market demand will provide for that. If that's your goal, then you should work to educate people more against smoking, and try to convince restaurant owners to ban it themselves. Don't use the government as a means of strong arming people to do what you want.

    63. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by swillden · · Score: 1

      Privately owned is privately owned.

      So I should be able to have a whites-only restaurant?

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    64. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Ashen · · Score: 1

      Absolutely.

    65. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by swillden · · Score: 1

      I wish I could ask you again in, say, 20 years. Ten, even. Ten years ago, I would've agreed with you, but I've seen a little more of the world since then.

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    66. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Ashen · · Score: 1

      That's funny because 5 years ago I would've agreed with you.

    67. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by swillden · · Score: 1

      Odd; extremism of most sorts mellows with age. Just out of curiosity, how old are you? Do you have children?

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    68. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Ashen · · Score: 1

      Extremism mellows with age? You don't think banning smoking in all public places is extremist? That our governments war on drugs isn't extremist?

      If you want to discount me because I'm only 21, that's fine. Milton Friedman is in his 90's and his "extremism" hasn't mellowed any. If anything, from reading his books, it sounds as if he becomes more "extreme" with age.

    69. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by swillden · · Score: 1

      You don't think banning smoking in all public places is extremist?

      No. I think it's a bit heavy-handed and it's not a decision I would have made, but it's not extremist and, frankly, I like it. I don't think the free market approach you espouse would ever have worked in this case, because of human nature and the relationship between restauranteur and customer. I won't elaborate because the arguments are the sort I know you wouldn't buy, since they're so seemingly illogical, yet they derive from my own observations of such interactions and I have little doubt about them. People are not, at bottom, very logical animals.

      Regardless, prohibiting the spewing of poison into the air in public places (which private restaurants are, in fact and in law) isn't extremist. The fist/nose principle. Banning smoking in truly private places would be.

      That our governments war on drugs isn't extremist?

      Yes. Actually, the war on drugs isn't bad, per se, but the lengths to which it has been taken have significantly reduce our freedoms and, IMO, significantly violated our fourth amendment rights.

      This is an especially interesting question to me, because although I never have used, and never will use, any sort of recreational drugs (even legal ones, like alcohol), I used to be violently opposed to any attempt to control what people put in their bodies. What has changed my position is largely the comments of a friend of mine who spent 10 years of his life on drugs. This guy is not only a good friend but also one of the most brilliant people I've met (and I've met a lot) and a fairly staunch libertarian.

      At the end of dozens of hours of conversation with him and others I find myself with an unpleasantly complex opinion. I think soft drugs should be legal, but regulated, just like alcohol and tobacoo, I think hard drugs should be illegal, yet I don't think we should work nearly as hard at suppressing them than we do. The crime that comes about from such strict suppression is a greater societal harm than the drugs themselves, but the drugs *are* harmful, and not just to the individuals that use them, so we definitely want to avoid giving them an official "okay".

      What is clear that we certainly shouldn't give the government such broad powers in response to *any* threat, unless that threat is so severe and immediate that it justifies full military law.

      If you want to discount me because I'm only 21, that's fine.

      Oh, I'm not discounting you. I just wouldn't be surprised at all if you go through a similar metamorphosis of thought processes as I did. I also used to have a great deal of confidence in the free market -- but then I spent 10 years working in big business and I gained an understanding of how easy it is for the market to be manipulated (although liberal extremists have an even more skewed view than pure libertarians, IMO). I still think that a completely unregulated market is the ideal, but recognize that some outside supervision is necessary.

      With regard to social issues, I've also had plenty of opportunities to see deep injustices done to individuals that, most likely, a few generations of time would have erased, but I think it's eminently reasonable to help the process along. For that reason, I support many of our anti-discrimination statutes, even though I really wish people could just get over their prejudices on their own. I even support government manipulation of society, where the injustice is very clear and very sharp. Affirmative Action, for example, is blatant reverse discrimination, as are the admissions policies of many universities, hiring policies of many corporations, etc. Regardless, I do support such actions as long as I feel they're doing more good than harm (and racial reverse discrimination, I think, has outlived its usefulness and now does more harm than good).

      The problem with all of these non-absolutist points of view is that they're very vulnerable to slippery-slope arguments. More in

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    70. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Ashen · · Score: 1

      I don't support the ban of any drugs, "soft" or "hard". Like you said, the crime waves created by the war on drugs are much worse to society than the effects of having them be legal. We wouldn't have drug turf wars destroying places like East St. Louis and even our nations capital. Granted that's a small part of the picture since a lot of these ghetto's were created by government housing programs, many of which have been very racist in their objectives.

      Hard drugs are ugly. They do horrible things to people. But it's so much more productive to work on educating people on the harms of drug abuse and helping those who have already been affected by them with private charities and organizations. Legalizing drugs immediately takes the drug lord suppliers out of the equation because then it loses it's profitability. Hell we could all just grow our own weed in the back yard. Or giant weed farms could grow it and competition would drive down prices (which of course like you said, the government could go back and slap big taxes on it). Nothing wrong with government raising funds for LEGITIMATE uses.

      As for big businesses manipulating the market- I can only assume you mean the ways that they manipulate markets through their government connections and lobbyists. In my little fantasy land I would do away with those activities as well.

      Human's really aren't as illogical as you say when you take away their means to do illogical things. One senator or house representative from (i think) the state of vermont sponsored some bill that allowed businesses to recieve the money collected on tariffs on products that compete with their own. This bill caused some fireworks firm that had gone bankrupt a decade before to reopen it's doors and produce a small ammount of fireworks for the SOLE PURPOSE of collecting this tarriff money. Consumers are harmed because they have to pay more for fireworks, society as a whole is harmed because there is a waste of labor and capital going into producing fireworks that are better produced in China. (Yes, my degree is in Mathematical Economics).

      Although now that I think about it, people are pretty illogical for ever voting that guy into office, or any of the other nuts who voted for the bill. I think most illogical actions by people stem from ignorance or lack of knowledge/understanding. The solution is to work on THAT problem, not pander to their ignorant illogical actions.

      As I've gotten older and more educated, my "faith" in a voluntary society has only grown stronger. The biggest problem is that I'll never be able to force you or anyone else to stop forcing me and everyone else into doing what you want.

      You sound sure of yourself and your opinions, but I think that if you havent read it yet, you and every other voting American should read Free to Choose by Milton Friedman. At the very least it will give your opinions a good challenge.

    71. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by yourmom16 · · Score: 1
      So I should be able to have a whites-only restaurant?

      Sure, but its not a good idea since you'll be scarificing your profits from people of other races and whites who boycott your resturant because of that. Would you rather make next to no money off of it or allow other races in? The free market would lead to people not discriminating.

      --
      "We have got to make Stan understand the importance of voting, because he'll definitely vote for our guy." - South Park
    72. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by swillden · · Score: 1

      The free market would lead to people not discriminating.

      So why didn't it? We let the market try for nearly 100 years, without success.

      Although it would probably be better for you to figure it out yourself, I'll answer the question: It didn't work because a free market just provides a mechanism for people to maximize their perceived value, and in many cases people perceive value in keeping others down, even when it's against their purely financial interest.

      Human motivations aren't nearly as simple as economics and game theory would like.

      Besides, the white-only restaurant owners didn't really lose that much money... they still sold food to blacks, and at the same prices. They just wouldn't let them sit up front with the "folks".

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    73. Re:Sounds Fantastic -- Now Why Not Hemp by Cybrr · · Score: 1
      you need someplace to grow it. With genetically modified crops, we can grow more food per acre, and thus free up farmland to grow hemp
      So you're using 100% of your farmland and only just manage to feed everyone?
      Harvested hemp would have to stored under weatherproof conditions
      Just like crops.
      while trees usually can be left outside with the elements.
      Hemp can be made into at least as many products as wood.
      Hemp would compete with other crops for manpower and machinery because it is a seasonal crop. [...] Basically, we would need an infrastracture change in order to accommodate large-volume hemp production.
      You also contradict this.
      --
      Why did GEAR crush RDP?
  9. Nice by Zarxos · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    That's a very good idea. As it is, plastic takes hundreds of years to degrade in nature. This will help a lot. Next on the list is glass, which currently takes around 1 million.

    1. Re:Nice by bigjnsa500 · · Score: 1
      Just think of all the plastic products this could replace. Everything to tupperware to ziplock bags, to oil containers. I just wished I lived the Pacific Northwest so I could start buying this stuff.

      There anybody in SouthTexas selling this stuff?

      --
      This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
    2. Re:Nice by brunes69 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Since glass is just melted sand, couldnt glass just be ground up into fine sand?

    3. Re:Nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is glass going to degrade into? Smaller pieces of glass, also known in most parts of the world as sand.

    4. Re:Nice by Smidge204 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Glass is easily recyclable though. You can crush it up into course particals and use it as aggregate in concrete and asphalt paving, or just melt it down and make new things out of it.

      Plastic is a bit trickier, mainly because there's so many different types of plastic, it makes sorting a nightmare. Some products even use 2 or 3 different types of plastic in one unit! (eg: Tic-Tac dispenser uses a polystyrene container and a polypropylene lid)

      different "types" of glass are mostly just heat treatments. eg: tempered/safety glass.

      A plastic that dissolves in a special chemical would make it easier, especially if that chemical could be retreived after use. Dump all the plastic garbage in a big pot, add chemical, dissolve type X plastic, drain chemical and recover, add different chemical to dissolve type Y plastic, repeat...

      I've also seen plastics (especially expanded polystyrene, like coffee cups) that have glucose in their polymer chains, which means bacteria aide in decomposing the material while it's in the landfill. No idea what happened to this stuff though...
      =Smidge=

    5. Re:Nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      A plastic that dissolves in a special chemical would make it easier, especially if that chemical could be retreived after use. Dump all the plastic garbage in a big pot, add chemical, dissolve type X plastic, drain chemical and recover, add different chemical to dissolve type Y plastic, repeat...

      This is already possible. Different plastics dissolve at different temperatures in xylene.

      I don't know if this process is actually being used to recycle plastic or not...

    6. Re:Nice by redwolfoz · · Score: 1

      Glass is easily recyclable though. You can crush it up into course particals and use it as aggregate in concrete and asphalt paving, or just melt it down and make new things out of it.

      This wasn't always the way, but the CSIRO has been doing some research into using waste glass as not only aggregate in concrete, but as a sand substitute as well, and green lighted its use.

      --
      and the werewolves came...
      and they ate him...
      and they drank his beer...
    7. Re:Nice by Whyrph · · Score: 1

      That's a very good idea. As it is, plastic takes hundreds of years to degrade in nature. This will help a lot. Next on the list is glass, which currently takes around 1 million.

      Too bad we pack our landfills so tight that newspapers don't even start to degrade in 50 years. Until we're willing to take a hit in the short-term (more landfills), we're not going to make any long-term progress - we're just gonna fill up the planet with waste.

    8. Re:Nice by dhovis · · Score: 5, Informative

      Disclamer: IAAMS (I Am A Materials Scientist)

      Pretty much, yes. Except that I think sand is crystalline and they add some stuff (soda, lime, etc) to make it melt easier. Anything ceramic (and that includes glass), is basically a synthetic rock. Why would you want it to degrade? What is glass poisoning? Anyway, glass is recycled a lot easier than plastic, and recycling is preferable to decay. Just sort it by color and melt it down.

      Actually I think aluminum takes longer to decay than glass does because aluminum forms a protective oxide on the surface that is not as water sensitive as silica (glass) is. Even so, aluminum is great because it is actually profitable to recycle aluminum since it costs a lot less to melt down old aluminum than it does to refine new aluminum from bauxite.

      The other point is that neither aluminum nor glass produces anything toxic as they degrade. Many plastics release nasty toxic compounds as they degrade and so you don't really want them to break down.

      --

      --
      The internet is the greatest source of biased information in the history of mankind.

    9. Re:Nice by ajs318 · · Score: 1
      Next on the list is glass, which currently takes around 1 million.
      You can reuse a glass container again and again until it gets broken. Ask your co-op milkman. When it does break, you can melt it down and reuse it.

      Being silicon dioxide, glass doesn't do anything all that harmful anyway. Just slap a whopping great tax on manufacturing anything from raw materials that could be made from recycled ones. Within a few years, people will be mining landfill sites.
      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    10. Re:Nice by bluGill · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes and no. Glass is not just any fine sand, but silica sand, which is not something you want to breath. (the grains are sharp and do bad thing to the lungs) Most of your everyday sand has lots of things other than silica, which reduces the danger. Of course glass can also be made into more glass.

    11. Re:Nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Glass is easily recyclable though.

      Also, glass containers tend to last longer, so you can reuse them, thus saving all the energy you would have needed to melt and reform it.

      Not gonna happen tho...

  10. Mr. Fusion by bigjnsa500 · · Score: 0

    Is this our first step towards a Mr. Fusion in every house/car?

    --
    This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
  11. it will be cheaper and easier to do something else by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 2, Interesting


    Just do what these guys are doing and recycle all the carbon and metal and such to make new oil and metals etc.

    --



    I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  12. Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Finally! I'm rich! I have never owned a computer, tech stocks, etc... but I have been farming corn for the past 50 years! Finally!

    Getting too much pr0n?

    1. Re:Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for that link. Just gave me new hope. (I can relate to the author).

    2. Re:Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoooaaa... you must be new to slashdot?

  13. Corn?! Nahh, eggs are the ones! by Angry+White+Guy · · Score: 1

    Nah, that was all the devious work of the egg council, as a disinformation ploy.

    --
    You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
  14. Obligatory Comments by Eberlin · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's a-maize-ing!
    That's one way to compile your kernel.
    Hey, guess what I managed to cobb-le together.
    Make plastic or make tequila...tough choice.
    Lastly, I am Cornholio...do you have TP for my bunghole?

    1. Re:Obligatory Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FYI, tequila is not made from corn.

    2. Re:Obligatory Comments by graveyhead · · Score: 1
      You're half-right:

      from wikipedia:

      Tequila is mezcal, a strong alcoholic beverage, made in an area near the town of Tequila, in the state of Jalisco, Mexico. All tequila is mezcal, what makes tequila different, is the region it is made in and the fact that tequila is made from agave Webber also called blue agave, and agave tequilana. Tequila is required to be 51% agave, the remainder is usually corn or cane sugar. There is however, tequilas made from 100% agave. The finest tequilas are always 100% blue agave.
      So, there probably is some corn in there, but it is not the main ingredient which is agave.

      --
      std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
    3. Re:Obligatory Comments by kurosawdust · · Score: 1
      those are all pretty corny.

      btw i believe it is whiskey that is made from corn.

    4. Re:Obligatory Comments by benjamindees · · Score: 1
      As some others have pointed out, corn just makes a relatively flavorless ethanol: that everclear stuff with the corn on the label.

      Most other liquors are 'cut' with this cheap grain alcohol to make them more profitable.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    5. Re:Obligatory Comments by dnahelix · · Score: 1

      You're 3/4-right:

      Much better information here.

      --
      Slashdot Eds Link Anonymous Posts With Logged Posts
      They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
      I Hate \.
  15. Economics by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Bio degradable better for the environment blah blah blah.

    Nobody's going to use it except in a few niche markets unless it's cheaper to mass-produce than good ol' synthetic plastic. That will take a long time to achieve.

    Actually, even if it did replace plastic, I'm not sure it would be better for the environment. Now you need to mass-mass produce corn. Agricultural run-off can be pretty destructive, too, not to mention the effects of irrigation on natural waterways. TANSTAAFL.

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    1. Re:Economics by Dolohov · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Like the title of your post says, it's economics, and to a greater extent, politics. Forget the environmental argument, compelling as it may be to some people. I'm more interested in reducing the country's consumption of petroleum for both economic reasons (It's largely an import-only product at this point) and political reasons (We tend to import it from people who don't particularly like us).

      Those two considerations alone are, I think, enough to provoke a restructuring of our farm subsidies to make these plastics considerably cheaper in a very short period of time.

    2. Re:Economics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      the US already ass-produces corn...ever wonder why if you buy soda in europe it contains sugar, but buy in the US and its pumped full of corn syrup?

      we're talking major subsidies to farmers.

      not really sure if this is a good thing.

    3. Re:Economics by gilesjuk · · Score: 1

      Except that plastics are often made from petroleum distilates, so by reducing normal plastic you are reducing petrol usage.

      I think all plastics should be made from more natural materials, they degrade better and aren't using finite resources. Nobody needs a store carrier bag that lasts thousands of years.

    4. Re:Economics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Where I work we already receive freight packed using loose foam "sausages" made from starch. If you put them in a cup of water they dissolve back into a starchy goo. This has got to be alot better in terms of landfill volume than the old non-destructable last a million years packaging.

      Now if only someone can find a way to stop them 'exploding' out of an overfilled box when I open it they will make a fortune.

    5. Re:Economics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      try going here:

      http://www.discover.com/may_03/featoil.html

    6. Re:Economics by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

      how about a system like this?

      http://www.discover.com/may_03/featoil.html

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    7. Re:Economics by chundo · · Score: 1

      Let's assume all of this corn-based stuff actually gains mass acceptance (ethanol, this plastic, etc.) - and REALLY takes off. Do we have the capacity to renewably produce the amount of corn we would need to support it, or do you think we would end with farmers giving up renewable farming techniques by economic necessity, just planting corn every year, and depleting our soil of nutrients within a few years?

      I don't have the answer. Seems like it could be a catch-22 though.

      -j

    8. Re:Economics by thynk · · Score: 1

      If you put them in a cup of water they dissolve back into a starchy goo

      They also taste pretty good with a little salt.

      --

      Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
    9. Re:Economics by autechre · · Score: 1

      Many people believe that corn syrup is an inferior sweetener as far as flavor is concerned. It's cheaper, so most US soda companies have switched, but you can still get "the good stuff":

      www.dublindrpepper.com

      --
      WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
    10. Re:Economics by unixfd0 · · Score: 1

      We tend to import it from people who don't particularly like us

      I'm pretty sure that the Saudi royal family and friends love the U.S. It's the people who they rule over (ruthlessly at times) that don't like the U.S. and see "you" as a supporter of their suffering.

    11. Re:Economics by norm_bone · · Score: 1
      Nobody's going to use it except in a few niche markets unless it's cheaper to mass-produce than good ol' synthetic plastic. That will take a long time to achieve.

      Absolutely correct on the "niche while expensive." Wrong on the "long time to get cheap." The company is competing with traditional plastics based on price and performance. Not 5 years from now, but now.

      Actually, even if it did replace plastic, I'm not sure it would be better for the environment. Now you need to mass-mass produce corn. Agricultural run-off can be pretty destructive, too, not to mention the effects of irrigation on natural waterways. TANSTAAFL.


      We're only talking about a fraction of a % of the US corn crop with the current technology, and future technology will use "worthless" sources of carbohydrates, like hay, grass, leaves, and corn stalks.



      No-one said it's a free lunch. Even using biomass, it will take energy to make the plastic. It's just a "better" lunch, since the physical material for the plastic is coming from a renewable resource. Now if we had nearly unlimited renewable energy, the "lunch" would start to get really cheap.

  16. Corn-based plastic. by Crusty+Oldman · · Score: 4, Funny

    .
    They coat it with sugar, stamp it into interesting shapes, and call it "breakfast cereal".

  17. Downsides? by BrianKHud · · Score: 1

    This seems like a dream come true in the short run. Does anyone see any possibly drastic downsides to this (within its designated temporary storing period)? Does this stuff dissolve when it gets wet or anything? Seems like that 40-50 price excess that exists now would go away with greater production considering the 50 cent per pound price difference in raw materials for manufacturing it.

    --
    He who controls the past, commands the future... He who controls the future conquers the past.
    1. Re:Downsides? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 5% of people with food allergies to corn will probably die from anaphylactic shock. Not that they can eat much commercially produced food anyway, since it all contains corn oil, corn syrup, corn starch, corn meal, or just plain corn.

      Likely they will end up using GM corn for this, and they will skate around having to list it on the ingredients, even though trace amounts willl get into any food packed in it.

      Corn is not food; corn is what food eats.

  18. This is a serious question... by bmwguy · · Score: 1, Interesting

    ...will this stuff be edible?

    1. Re:This is a serious question... by autechre · · Score: 1

      The corn-based packing materials certainly seem to be edible. I didn't realize that a network switch I ordered had shipped with non-styrofoam "peanuts" until one of my cats pounced on one and ate it. I was concerned until I realized that they weren't styrofoam.

      --
      WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
  19. I say Potato You say Corn by ascii(64) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The plates and embal to the food served, under the 1994 olympcs in Lillehammer, was made of potatos.

    Where have this gone?

    Why dont the use this at McDonnalds (a biker gang for Carl Barks fans?)
    If Ronald dont care about the enviroment he must clearly see the practical
    an economic advantage of this product.

    "we're all out of (freedom/french/*um like whatevah*)fries, but we have some lovely fried cups"

    @ who acctually shuld had posted this anonymsly, and no heading for the bed

    1. Re:I say Potato You say Corn by Almost_anonymous_cow · · Score: 1

      Simple volume Figure out the amount that mcdonalds would need on a daily basis. The ability to produce on such a volume probaly isnt there yet.

  20. it sounds good by JrTcoNrd · · Score: 0

    imagine... storage you can eat! Mm......... i can see a future for it in the soccer moms category... bring snacks to practice, have the kids eat the bags. No cleanup necessary!

    --
    Do you ever find yourself humming the MacGuyver theme song? Then you my friend, are a true nerd.
    1. Re:it sounds good by JrTcoNrd · · Score: 0

      i meant to say if it was edible

      --
      Do you ever find yourself humming the MacGuyver theme song? Then you my friend, are a true nerd.
    2. Re:it sounds good by Z4rd0Z · · Score: 1

      Do you ever find yourself humming the MacGuyver theme song?

      Why, no. No, I don't.

      --
      You had me at "dicks fuck assholes".
    3. Re:it sounds good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Me either. I, instead, will find myself humming the MacGyver theme song.

      Not sure what a Mac Guyver TV series would be like.

  21. I can see it now by curtlewis · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    tastes like.... corn!

    your sandwich, tastes just like corn
    your pasta, tastes just like corn
    your chicken, tastes just like corn!

  22. Beavis by CatWrangler · · Score: 1

    Condoms made of this stuff would be fun. Think of Beavis' alter ego.

    --

    ---
    When you come to a fork in the road, take it! --Yogi Berra--

    1. Re:Beavis by HBI · · Score: 2, Funny

      Gives a whole new meaning to cornholing.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    2. Re:Beavis by BlueJay465 · · Score: 1

      Or a whole new meaning to Edible Underwear?

  23. Sounds good, but... by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 1

    It can't replace real plastic in long-term projects because it eventually disintegrates. But I can imagine it'll be great for disposable plastic items. Imagine something that can replace styrofoam cups, but that doesn't take centuries to degrade.

    Overall, sounds like a very interesting project for using renewable resources for temporary items, if they can produce it in large quantities. And when you're done, toss it out and let it disintegrate OR send it back to be recycled.

    It won't replace long-duration plastic items, but it'll sure cut down on styrofoam waste.

    1. Re:Sounds good, but... by ajs318 · · Score: 1
      Imagine something that can replace styrofoam cups, but that doesn't take centuries to degrade.
      What, like china cups, for instance, that you can use over and over again until they eventually break?
      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  24. Mmm, kernels! by laukev7 · · Score: 2, Funny

    If we could use corn plastic in computers, could we use kernels for Linux?

    1. Re:Mmm, kernels! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a corn plastic circuit board would be nice

  25. Cargill and Dow by Kagato · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Cargill and Dow have had a comercial Corn based platic for years. It enviromentally safe, degrades when when Heat, Mosture, and Darkness are applied. However, because of the way our Ag system works, petro based platic is still cheaper.

    1. Re:Cargill and Dow by nathanm · · Score: 1

      Some grocery stores here in MN started using bio-degradable, corn-based plastic bags at the checkout over 10 years ago.

    2. Re:Cargill and Dow by thynk · · Score: 1

      Some grocery stores here in MN started using bio-degradable, corn-based plastic bags at the checkout over 10 years ago.

      I was just thinking about those. I remember them very well. IIRC - they were susposed to break down with in a few months of exposure to sun light.

      Unfortunatly, they did have the tendancy to break down with in a few feet of the front of the store.

      --

      Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
    3. Re:Cargill and Dow by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      Or you could just invest in a more durable bag - biodegradable canvas, or non-biodegradable-but-long-lasting nylon, for example - that can be used for more than one journey from store to home .....

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    4. Re:Cargill and Dow by Choco-man · · Score: 1

      It's a product called EcoPLA (PLA is for Poly-lactic acid). The first commercially available PLA product was made available in 1996, I believe, and the PLA is generated, of course, from the corn milling processes. The original production facility was in Savage, MN (it's still there, actually). Starch is converted into sugar, then fermented into lactic acid. It is hydrolyzed into lactide, which is converted into PLA resins using a solvent-free polymerization. They degrade into water and carbon dioxide, and are photocatalyzed. As with conventional petrol based plastics, they provide good oil and grease repelling properties, as well as good odor and moisture barriers. They can be used for injection moulding as well as interwoven products, can be opaque or translucent, pliable or firm.

  26. golf tees by LEPP · · Score: 1

    they have been making some golf tees out of this for a couple of years. I thought it was plastic until last summer. It looks just like regular plastic.

    LEPP

  27. It's kind of ironic by dysprosia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We have natural resources like corn, tapioca (which can also be used to make plastic bags), and even banana fibre, which can't be pulped down but can be made into superstrong paper and card, yet we create still plastics which don't biodegrade and cause harm to the environment....

    1. Re:It's kind of ironic by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

      don't worry abou that any more dude!!!

      http://www.discover.com/may_03/featoil.html

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    2. Re:It's kind of ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You say ironic...I say stupid.

      zeke

  28. Re:it will be cheaper and easier to do something e by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 1

    I'm afraid that thermal depolymerization (TDP) is only effective on organic materials, because it works (as the name implies) by breaking long-chain polymers down. It won't work on metals.

    Might be an interesting way to deal with spammers... Make them contribute something back to society.

  29. Forget making your own bio-plastic... by SmlFreshwaterBuffalo · · Score: 1

    ...I'm looking forward to making my own food guide pyramid! Whoo-hoo!

    For years I've waited to see beer as the most important food group, and now my dream can finally come true!

  30. Tastes like the box it came in by billstewart · · Score: 1

    Better to do this with corn-based materials than cardboard, I suppose :-)

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    1. Re:Tastes like the box it came in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      McDonalds would disagree.

    2. Re:Tastes like the box it came in by d3designs · · Score: 0

      What do you mean!
      McDonald's would make happy meal toys out of it.
      I can see it now:
      "Eat the toy when you are done playing with it!" â

      ;-)

    3. Re:Tastes like the box it came in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Eat the toy when you are done playing with it!"

      That's what I told her.
      (boom boom chink!)

  31. Yeah, what about ethanol? by Atario · · Score: 2

    I say bring on the corn-based replacements for all petroleum products. Then the US would start to rake in all those dollars that currently go to OPEC.

    --
    "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
    1. Re:Yeah, what about ethanol? by tinguru · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Producing ethanol from corn requires burning double the amount of gasoline already used in cars, according to a study conducted by UC Berkeley professor Tad Patzek and his freshman seminar of nine students. Source Daily California 6/10/2003

    2. Re:Yeah, what about ethanol? by benjamindees · · Score: 3, Insightful
      What bullshit. No one is planning to distill ethanol with 'gasoline'. We can use our copious amounts of natural gas and coal, hell, even nuclear energy to create enough ethanol to last for centuries. The article you cite only reaches such absurd conclusions because it includes solar energy as an input.

      In actual 'energy' usage, ethanol does require more energy to create than it offers. A lot of that energy comes from the sun, though, instead of from limited resources. Think of it as a way to convert sunlight and any random heat source around 200Â F into automotive fuel. In that regard, I'm pretty sure it's even more efficient to produce than hydrogen that is electrically 'cracked'.

      Another benefit of ethanol is that it is a clean, safe liquid fuel that is completely compatible with existing combustion engines.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    3. Re:Yeah, what about ethanol? by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can even get the heat for distilling the alcohol from burning plant matter, which makes absolutely no contribution to climate change {for reasons that your O-level chemistry teacher explained in the 3rd year}. And you only need to heat it to 78.5 degrees, unlike many fuel-from-other-stuff jobs. Theoretically you could use an alcohol still as part of the cooling system from another high-temperature industrial process!

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    4. Re:Yeah, what about ethanol? by benfoldsfan · · Score: 1

      i always think it's funny when it's touted that 'ethanol takes more energy to produce than gasoline' but i want to know who has been around for millions of years to count the energy that it took to crush dinosaurs and ancient plants into crude oil... or wait, that's right, crude oil is a magical substance that forms itself underneath the ground, produced with no energy.

      and why would anyone listen to what anyone from UC Berkley says?

  32. Wake you own at home by outofpaper · · Score: 1

    I just made the at home version from con starch. It's kinda squishy while warm. So, like in the instructions I molded a ball out of it and as it is cooling it is geting bouncy-er. It looks like I made my own super ball.

    I'm going to put pictures of me working with this stuf up on my site http:outofpaper.cjb.net

  33. Disney uses this... by JTFritz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Disney uses a product like this at all of their theme parks. When you get "plastic" utensils at a restaraunt in the park, it's actually this stuff.

    Great for the environment considering how much garbage Disney generates.

    Feel free to interpret that last statement any way you wish :)

    1. Re:Disney uses this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Dude! +5 insightful! Congratulations, you played moderator roulette and won!

      (not that there's anything wrong with this comment, but come on...)

  34. Foretold in "Cradle to Cradle" by iiii · · Score: 3, Informative

    This kind of thing was described/foretold/requested in the book "Cradle to Cradle" , by William McDonough & Michael Braungart, which after reading the /. review I bought and read. (BTW, here is their company) An interesting read. Lots of propaganda, but lots of really good ideas, and a few real results, too. Other related links here and here.

    --
    Light cup, beer drink, thin so chain, neck turtle fat, man I won't say it again
  35. But if only we had by frs_rbl · · Score: 1

    Pop-plastic to put in our corn bowls. Maybe in S.R...

    --
    This is not my opinion. Actually, it's not even an opinion. And I'm nowhere to be seen near it
  36. Benifits for computers by outofpaper · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If the bords in our computers where made instead of whith glass and petrocemicals but with plant fibers and plant based plastics we would be able to by degade them whene they where nolonger usfule. It would simplify the extraction of the presious metals that are in them. No longer would the computer reciling firms in asia nead to us toxic cemicals but instead they could use vibrating screens and magnets .

    1. Re:Benifits for computers by BrainInAJar · · Score: 1

      The fibreglass isn't the toxic part of system boards, it's the lead and flux. Not to mention that I can see organic fibre boards catching fire when you try to solder them.

    2. Re:Benifits for computers by outofpaper · · Score: 1

      I the most toxic element of recicling computers isnot dealing with the lead ani flux (by that point the flux is only there in trace amounts. It is the cemicals that are used to wash the boards of all metals. These cemicals are then normaly just pored down the drain.

    3. Re:Benifits for computers by chundo · · Score: 1

      Umm. Organic != Flammable.

      -j

    4. Re:Benifits for computers by Eric+Destiny · · Score: 2, Funny

      Perhaps I could take this post seriously if its spelling didn't resemble that of a toddler with Tourette's and a heroin habit.

      --

      "The meek shall inherit the earth, the rest of us shall go to the stars." Isaac Asimov

    5. Re:Benifits for computers by thynk · · Score: 1

      I the most toxic element of recicling computers isnot dealing with the lead ani flux (by that point the flux is only there in trace amounts. It is the cemicals that are used to wash the boards of all metals. These cemicals are then normaly just pored down the drain.

      You really think they are just pored down the drain? I have no idea what chemical is used to disolve the lead off the PCB, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that it's NOT just flushed down the drain. The EPA would have a FIT as would OSHA and half a dozen other government acronyms. I work for a place that makes the final PCAs, and I see what we have to go through just for fairly harmless chemicals.

      I always thought the problem with dumping your PC in the trash was the ammount of mecury this guys had in the PCBs, but I could be wrong.

      --

      Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
    6. Re:Benifits for computers by BrainInAJar · · Score: 1

      Not sure about mercury, but it's got tons of lead in it, which is really the problem. The chemical they use to wash it off is most likely nitric acid, though I could be wrong. And yeah, the EPA and OSHA would be on your ass for doing it in America, but China or Taiwan are still fair game for dumping poison all over the place

    7. Re:Benifits for computers by LeoHat · · Score: 1

      No no. Don't hold back. Tell us what you REALLY think.

      --
      The mistakes of a clever man are equal to the mistakes of a thousand fools.
  37. Re:it will be cheaper andsier to do something by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 2, Interesting

    correct, however, the first stage of the system that masticates everything removes metal from stuff you put in it. it removes everything that is not made of carbon and returns it to you at the end. so you can throw entire computers in and get clean materials out. read the article...it talks about just that.

    infact thay say it can handle any human waste except toxic waste from nuclear plants.

    --



    I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  38. early 80s by dauvis · · Score: 1

    Wasn't this stuff used in the early to mid eighties in grocery bags? If I remember it didn't work well because it wasn't very durable.

  39. Gives new meaning .... by bigjnsa500 · · Score: 1

    to the term "Corn Fed"

    --
    This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
  40. WOW! by mangu · · Score: 1

    Reciclable golf tees! Now, that's a giant leap forward for the environment!

  41. yes by SHEENmaster · · Score: 4, Funny

    but Classic Plastic will be outlawed due to its effect on the environment. It will then be discovered that it can act as a halucinegen. America will declare war on plastics, and the libertarian party will be ignored for standing up for our right to buy and use plastics.

    --
    You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
    1. Re:yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.discover.com/may_03/featoil.html

    2. Re:yes by rangergordon · · Score: 1

      Oh, yeah, I really needed to see those turkey guts ...

      Excuse me while I convert to vegetarianism.

  42. like foxes building the henhouse by SuperBanana · · Score: 2, Interesting
    "My impression is this (company) is motivated by people who know we can't go on burning oil and not destroy our climate," said Ritchie, whose group has been working with Cargill Dow and other companies to create a set of sustainable farming standards for bio-industrial crops. These standards, he said, would emphasize renewing soil fertility, protecting scarce water resources and reducing fertilizers and pesticides.

    Last time I looked, Cargill makes a SHITLOAD of money off pesticides, fertilizers, animal feed chemicals, and so on- just check out their website if you don't believe me. We're supposed to believe they're working on stuff that will eliminate/reduce demand for those products?

    What's Cargill going to sell, information booklets? Patent the compost process? :-)

    1. Re:like foxes building the henhouse by chundo · · Score: 1

      It may be a business shift for Cargill, but I don't think they would lose money overall. After all, if they control the process - even though overall demand for fertilizers may decreease - they're manufacturing OIL. That's gotta be pretty profitable in itself.

      -j

  43. Indeed a serious question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    AFAIK, it IS edible, as long as you use edible inks if you print anything on it (it is transparent), and is also meant to save the hassle of opening the wrapper before eating. "The easier it is to see the 'Easy opening' sign, the longer it will take fighting with the package in order to open it".

    -- But, hey, will they have to print the nutritional value of the package ?

  44. Nothing new by SiliconEntity · · Score: 1

    Why, Gramps used to use a good ol' corn-cob pipe. You can make all kinds of decorative and useful utensils and home decorations out of corn cobs. Don't throw them out!

  45. biodegradable containers have been around for a by Bob+Bitchen · · Score: 5, Informative

    couple of years now Earthshell has been making biodegradable containers for a while, McDonalds already uses them. And so does the National Park Service.

    --
    http://tinyurl.com/3t236
    1. Re:biodegradable containers have been around for a by Ratface · · Score: 3, Informative

      yup - here in Europe I'll be travelling to a huge rock festival in Denmark in a week or so where all the disposable cutlery for food is made from this stuff (or at least something similar). Works pretty well for the disposable market.

      --

      A little planning goes a long way...
    2. Re:biodegradable containers have been around for a by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmm ..... but why have disposable cutlery at all?

      Just have the catering stalls not supply any, and rely on the customers to bring their own metal cutlery ..... or learn to eat without it ..... As long as people were made aware of it from day one, why should it be a problem? You could always sell reusable metal cutlery and plastic or metal plates within the festival.

      Think: disposable bad, biodegradable not so bad, recyclable good, reusable better.

      Legend has it the ice cream cone was invented when someone ran out of containers and spoons - they were originally made of some unleaded bread type thing, if I remember correctly. The ultimate in biodegradable packaging ..... when you've eaten the food inside it, you can eat the container! Now that is cool.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    3. Re:biodegradable containers have been around for a by eyeye · · Score: 1

      If you think thats bad in the US some families buy and use disposable plates daily.

      They are advertised as being convenient - no washing up...

      P.s the "unleaded" bread made me smile (I guess you meant to type unleavened?).

      --
      Bush and Blair ate my sig!
    4. Re:biodegradable containers have been around for a by JDevers · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yea, I want to go to a big, crazy rock concert where everyone there is basically REQUIRED to carry metal cutlery...

  46. Re:Corn based drink by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I would say that the moderator who modded this down is on crack, because he sure isn't drunk! Note: Modding down ACs is a waste, homie. I've got more IP addresses and subnets than you can shake your little sticks at.

    ~~~

  47. Plastic Pollution by tbmaddux · · Score: 4, Informative

    In case you're wondering why plastic is bad, visit the Algalita Marine Research Foundation. They have done cruises into the Pacific Ocean and found tiny pieces of plastic that outnumber zooplankton 6 to 1. Plastic "nurdles" or little unprocessed beads of plastic are the number 1 beach polluter in southern California. They sorb hydrophobic toxins (DDT, PCBs and the like) and then poison the critters that eat them.

    --
    Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?
    1. Re:Plastic Pollution by djeaux · · Score: 1
      There have been cornstarch-based packing noodles available for over 10 years. When I was still teaching, several biological supply companies shipped orders packed in those things. It was kinda fun to put a handful in a beaker, pour some water over them & watch them dissolve. Okay, it was fun about twice.

      My point is that this is hardly breaking news.

      --
      "Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
  48. tried it... by barnacleez · · Score: 1

    I tried making that plastic according to the directions; it owns me! Really is rather neat. Does anyone know the chemical process(es) that allow this to occur?

    --
    >
  49. Sounds familiar by Bobartig · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We had something like this at my college. It was a grain based plastic-like material for disposable flatware (forks, spoons, knives). The material was billed as a replacement to plastic utensils and would fully biodegrade in landfills within 30-45 days. The material was also very bitter, overly flexy/soft, and became limp when heated to the temperature of hot food. Hopefully, this material is entirely different

    --
    This is where I get my recommended daily allowance of "Foot in Mouth."
  50. Cornholio Industries strikes again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    give me all of your TP!!!!

  51. great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this will spawn another shitload of anti-competetive and misguided farm subsidies.

  52. Re:it will be cheaper and easier to do something e by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 1
    That's a pretty interesting article. For a while I've figured that one day people would start mining old landfills for raw materials; maybe that might come sooner than later.

    It's funny that they're focusing on turkey guts though. From the article:

    Today, here at the plant at Philadelphia's Naval Business Center, the experimental feedstock is turkey processing-plant waste: feathers, bones, skin, blood, fat, guts. A forklift dumps 1,400 pounds of the nasty stuff into the machine's first stage, a 350-horsepower grinder that masticates it into gray brown slurry.

    When I saw that part, I thought: Isn't that the recipie for turkey hot dog wieners? They could just squeeze it into casings and sell it for $1.49 per pack.

  53. Sort of like the opposite of Qorn by CracktownHts · · Score: 1
    switch a few words and you get:

    new type of "green" compost which tastes like plastic but turns your container into a disposal

  54. New solution for MPAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    New From the MPAA Bio-Degrading Media for your renting use. WARNING remove from player within 48 hours or face dataloss.

    Ya, i'de just throw all my used cd's into the garden

  55. Re:Corn based drink by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've got more IP addresses and subnets than you can shake your little sticks at.

    What a loser.. You have multiple IP addresses and subnets, and you use them for the primary purpose of trolling on dotslash?

  56. Quick! by weston · · Score: 1

    Buy stock in Iowa!

    (And don't forget to sell SCO short!)

    Disclaimer: This post in no way constitutes financial or legal advice, or a solicitation to buy or sell financial products. Entities mentioned may have unforseen liabilities or may not even be actively traded on a recognized stock exchange. Please consult a lawyer, SEC filings, three senators, and a monk from Llhasa before engaging in trade.

  57. Not only good for the environment by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's also much better tasting than the alternative, Plastic based Corn.

    1. Re:Not only good for the environment by wadetemp · · Score: 1

      I believe they were once selling some Taco Bell-brand taco shells made of that corn at the local supermarket. And yes, it is.

  58. So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It still takes shitloads of energy (read: oil) to grow corn (think farm equipment, shipping, cleaning, processing, etc), so all we're doing is moving the pollution from one place to another.

  59. Re:porn-free.org? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Woohoo! Ad-hominem attack!
    That means you can't present a reasonable argument!

    Porn-free.org: 1
    Clueless troll: 0

  60. Re:Corn based drink by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Pot, kettle, . . . , and anyway, you wouldn't know a troll if it bit you in your sorry ass.

    ~~~

  61. Build your own 737 Simulator -- out of Corn! by ArmorFiend · · Score: 1

    ^the subject is the funny part^

  62. Not entirely news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not sure if this is entirely new information, but corn starch "shipping peanuts" have been around for a while as a bio-degradable alternative to styrofoam. If you sprinkle some salt & pepper on them they taste ok.

  63. Re:it will be cheaper and easier to do something e by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

    they started with those just because the early adopters of the tech will be argicultural producers...next will probably power generation companies who want to clean the coal they use ( I thought that was cool as well) or turn tar sand into high quality oil which will basicly double the total oil reserves int eh world!!!

    --



    I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  64. Already in good use... by strAtEdgE · · Score: 1

    When I was down in San Diego last week, I played at a golf course (Encinitas Ranch?) that was giving away tees made of this stuff. It's a great idea because a lot of tees break apart and then go flying off into the grass, especially with guys like me who like to tee the ball high... or the woman I golfed with who liked to use a tee everywhere but the greens.

    --
    ----- sXe
  65. alanis morissette fan? by tinguru · · Score: 1
    Isn't it Ironic that this posting is ironic only in the same sense as the song "Isn't it Ironic?" by Alanis Morissette?

    It's kinda short sighted, and reflective of the fact that the market does not factor in the economic costs of petro chemicals -- but I fail to see the irony.

  66. Cheetos, I knew it by dgenr8 · · Score: 1

    Those newfangled packing "peanuts" have the exact consistency of bleached cheetos, and darned if dusting them with a little salt and cheese solids doesn't make them taste just the same, too!

  67. Awesome! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and then we'll send the used shopping bags to Ethiopia. That's a much better idea than the 13 cents a day!

  68. Drifting O.T. here: by DoraLives · · Score: 2, Funny
    What if such chemical were.. say.. methane?

    BOOOOOM!!

    --
    Is it fascism yet?
  69. I know my popcorn well enough... by cybermace5 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...to know that michael meant to say "from the orville-redenbacher dept."

    Corn keeps coming up in the news, with more and more uses. There is a corn-based fuel that's gaining popularity in Minnesota, especially among street rodders. Apparently it has a little more zip than gasoline, and hey, renewable energy (plus the by-products are still useful as animal feed). Corn is the most cost-effective solar cell we'll ever have.

    But you know, in a hundred years, when our great-grandkids all drive corn-powered cars and use corn-plastic products, the alternative-energy quacks will just whine about Big Corn keeping them down.

    --
    ...
  70. Old News - Soya used in 30's by aussiedood · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Henry Ford made car panels from soybeans in the 30's.

    Henry Ford and His Magic Beanstalk

    From the article:
    By late 1937 Ford's research laboratory, under the direction of youthful, self-trained Robert Boyer, had developed a curved plastic sheet Ford hoped would replace steel in automobile bodies. A few weeks later the magnate called in reporters, jumped up and down on the unbending sheet and triumphantly exclaimed, "If that was steel, it would have caved in." He added "Almost all new cars will soon be made of such things as soybeans" and that the most prosperous era in American history was "just around the corner" because industry was opening up a "whole new field for agricultural by-products."

  71. moderate parent off topic troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Linux is not of any use if you are growing corn to hide you hemp plants so you can pay for terrorists to kick people out of the former British Mandate of Palestine, but WHAT THE FUCK does that have to do with the topic???

    1. Re:moderate parent off topic troll by BrainInAJar · · Score: 1

      it's called a joke my humorless friend. Hemp zealots sound like linux zealots in as far as the argument of my parent applies to both.

  72. What about allergies to corn? by ChrisKnight · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My GF is allergic to corn and corn products. If she was ate deli food that was packaged in this it could cause a severe allergic reaction.

    Are these things marked as a corn product?

    -Chris

    --
    -- This sig is only a test. If this were a real sig it would say something witty. --
    1. Re:What about allergies to corn? by ChrisKnight · · Score: 1

      Edit one word and mangle the phrasing...

      "If she ate deli food"...

      --
      -- This sig is only a test. If this were a real sig it would say something witty. --
    2. Re:What about allergies to corn? by gidds · · Score: 1

      Good question. Corn is already used in some form or another in a huge proportion of foods, as allergy sufferers (and to some extent diabetics/low-carbers) will know. If it's in the packaging as well, there'll be no getting away from it! Do these guys own shares in a farm or something?

      --

      Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    3. Re:What about allergies to corn? by PsibrII · · Score: 1

      If you are alergic to all component molecules of corn you might as well just pack it up, and leave the planet. Corn based plastics are easily over a decade old. Bio degradable plastics with starch links (corn starch probably) are everywhere. A more popular corn based item is the biodegradable packing peanut. Put one on your tongue and it will melt. Tastes like corn and plastic. Your girlfriend, if she doesn't already know, should find out what in the corn she is alergic to, the pollen, the protein components, or the starch and sugar components. You can work from there an tracking down what is lethal. Til then, don't let her dive into vats of biodegradable packing peanuts unless you have a horse syringe full of adrenaline ready.

    4. Re:What about allergies to corn? by PsibrII · · Score: 1


      There was a wall street journal article on the use of corn based products for everything these days. The reason is because its cheap. $3 a bushel is a few cents a pound.

      If you can use all the surplus for anything new, its a great situation.

      Corn starches and sugars are the easiest parts to use. From there you get biodegradeable plastics, sugar for colas, and all sorts of premade goods, and with a little fermentation, a fuel addative or something to spice up you cola in the from of 190 proof ethanol(sold as everclear) .

      Theres also corn oils, and the proteins, I don't know quite what they do with the proteins yet.

    5. Re:What about allergies to corn? by ChrisKnight · · Score: 1

      > Corn is already used in some form or another in a huge proportion of foods

      Tell me about it... While Nancy is used to it and knows what she can and can not buy at the store, reading ingredient lists turns my every trip to the store into a long drawn out trip as I have to verify the ingredients of everything that I buy.

      -Chris

      --
      -- This sig is only a test. If this were a real sig it would say something witty. --
  73. Edamame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Food of the gods. Or the Kami, to be more accurate. Nature's perfect food. Eat some today!

  74. But hemp depletes soils... by FatSean · · Score: 1

    It's rough on nutrients in the soil. Not sure how i t compares to our good friend, the mutated grass, corn. I'm sure the Ready-Gro corporation is giddy about the possibility of a plant-based economy.

    --
    Blar.
    1. Re:But hemp depletes soils... by ruprechtjones · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that corn is more friendly to the soil after harvest (relatively), but both fields would require quite a bit of tender-loving-care to start the next crop. But that is what pig-shit is for, right?

      --
      Kip Hawley is an idiot.
    2. Re:But hemp depletes soils... by ajs318 · · Score: 1
      But that is what pig-shit is for, right?
      Uh, not just shit ..... you need a few bits of dead body too ..... Some humans like to pretend they can live without eating animals, and some even manage to die of other things before this catches up with them. But plants need minerals such as you get from blood and bones. That's why you can't be a true vegan and a true believer in organic farming at the same time.
      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  75. +1 Interesting +1 Insightful by eugene+ts+wong · · Score: 1

    That is brilliant. I honestly would have never thought of that. When people throw out their food containers, then food residues would actually help to break down the container.

  76. Cargill/Dow--From Frankencorn to Frankenfleece by hrath · · Score: 1
    While doing some more research on this I found a very interesting article talking about the background of Cargill Dow. According to it they are trying to push genetically engineered products.

    Corn based plastics sound good, but this article certainly is a good counter hype.

    regards,

    Heiko

  77. KUDZU by isn't+my+name · · Score: 1

    In fact, I may have heard [hemp] is the single fastest growing biomass plant in the world, though you may want to check me on that.

    Having seen what Kudzu can do in the South East US, I'd have to question this. Not sure that Kudzu is the fastest, but as a vine, it can grow in many different directions and not really reach a stopping point during the growing season. Hemp just goes up and even well fertilized, I would imagine does reach some type of stopping point eventually.

    1. Re:KUDZU by swordgeek · · Score: 1

      Yep. And hops too. They grow FAR faster than hemp, at least in terms of height/length. Also like kudzu, it's a perennial vine, so it just doesn't stop. Hemp is an annual crop.

      Just a random data point.

      --

      "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
    2. Re:KUDZU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think 2 of the fastest growing plants in the world are the underwater kelp forests and also bamboo, which grows fast enough you can see some species grow at certain times

  78. Been getting these containers for a few weeks by Colonel+Panic · · Score: 1

    Since I live in the Portland, OR metro area, I've had a chance to try out these corntainers... looks just like plastic. It looks like the only drawback is that you can't microwave'em - they've got a little sticker on them reminding you not to (I suspect they'll just melt, but I haven't tried it yet as the container is still holding salsa).

    I do have to wonder, though, is corn really all that environmentally friendly? I mean it takes a good amount of fuel to run those tractors and to transport the stuff. Also lots of pesticides and herbacides are used. Then there's the GMO issue - lots of corn grown in the US is genetically modified. And of course, corn is pretty hard on the soil - I generally don't grow it in my garden because it takes a lot nutrients out of the soil and you don't get that much out of it (2 or 3 ears of corn on a stalk). Are there better alternatives?

  79. OLD news folks by swordgeek · · Score: 1

    As only one (!) poster has already pointed out, this was done decades ago. It used to be that all of our plastic grocery bags around here were made out of biodegradable plastic.

    Then we started to ask questions like; "So what happens to the biodegraded bags in landfills?" and, "why do these bags suck so badly?"

    Neat idea, but it's not necessarily any better for the environment, and at the time they were a pain in the ass.

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
    1. Re:OLD news folks by benjamindees · · Score: 1
      Translation for those slashdotters who are too young to have been whiny self-centered yuppies in the 'Reaganomics' 80's:

      It turns out that the bags didn't degrade in landfills because they needed sunlight.

      And, yes, a lot of them broke before you could get your groceries home.

      That doesn't mean that such efforts are impossible or unimportant. It means that preserving the environment might end up being more expensive or less convenient in the short term than continuing to destroy it.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  80. Reminds me of that old Max Headroom joke, by NeuroManson · · Score: 1

    "Ever wonder why Zik Zak burgers come in plastic packs? Some of the plastic rubs off on the burger and doubles the nutritional value."

    --
    Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
  81. I've seen this before!!! by dnahelix · · Score: 1

    It's called LEFTOVER GRITS!!!

    --
    Slashdot Eds Link Anonymous Posts With Logged Posts
    They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
    I Hate \.
  82. Lawrence: "Hey, Peter." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Peter: "Yeah?"
    Lawrence: "Watch out for your corhnhole, bud."

  83. Not new, just new versions... by docwhat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While in college, I went to an Agriculture College Open House at the University of Illinios at Urbana/Champaign and they had this stuff there at the time. This would have been around 94 or so.

    They even had packing peanuts made of the stuff that they handed out for people to eat (it was very very bland, but edible). I figure you could live off of it if you got trapped in a UPS truck or something.

    Anyway, I think it's a neat idea. At the time, the packing peanuts were cost effective (and were going to roll out in a company someplace. I saw them a few years later) but the harder stuff wasn't yet. But they had examples of stuff molded out of it.

    Ciao!

    --
    The Doctor What (KF6VNC)
  84. Plastic recycling by Animats · · Score: 1
    Plastic recycling is starting to work. One of the most visible results of this are the ever-larger Rubbermaid products made from recycled plastics. Rubbermaid used to just sell small kitchen containers. Then they moved up to trash cans. Then came a whole line of big plastic containers for garages and industrial use. Then small garden sheds. Then bigger garden sheds. They're approaching low end vacation cabin size now.

    Steel recycling is also working well. Most steel is now recycled. It's not just rebar any more; now good sheet comes out.

  85. it IS a grain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    burp

  86. Wupidie do, the real question is... by pcgamez · · Score: 1

    How much energy, compared to "normal" plastic does it take to produce a comparable ammount? If it takes more, then it is no real improvement, it merely shifts the negative efects into another area.

  87. "make your own" by bushboy · · Score: 1

    from the linked pdf :-

    "Place a tablespoon of cornstarch in a plastic zip lock bag."

    alrighty then... :)

    --
    A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
  88. Who needs this? by Bombula · · Score: 1
    Who needs bio-plastic when it is now possible to recycle virtually all organic material, from plastics and car tires to sewage, turkey guts and medical waste? With thermal depolymerization waste is a profit center instead of an operating cost, and landfills and sewer systems are transformed into oil wells.

    --
    A-Bomb
  89. This comment made from corn, so not offtopic by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    we're all out of (freedom/french/*um like whatevah*)fries

    In a hideous twist to the tale, the French successfully lobby the WTO to protect "genuine" French fries under designated origin rules.

    "Ha! Ha! Ha!" laughs the villianous Jacques Chirac, "Ze wind has changed, but now you are stuck wis zees seelly `Freedom fries' name!"
    Then he mutters something about wiping his ass with silk.

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    1. Re:This comment made from corn, so not offtopic by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      CHIPS, as they are PROPERLY called, originated in BELGIUM, where they are traditionally served with mayonnaise. Legend has it that when the first chips were imported across the north sea to this country, the mayo went wonky so we just doused them with salt and vinegar.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    2. Re:This comment made from corn, so not offtopic by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      CHIPS, as they are PROPERLY called

      Yeah, I know; but the Americans don't call them chips.

      originated in BELGIUM, where they are traditionally served with mayonnaise. Legend has it that when the first chips were imported across the north sea to this country, the mayo went wonky so we just doused them with salt and vinegar.

      I suspect someone figured out that seeing as how the chips were swimming in fat in the first place, adding mayo was kind of silly. Anyhow, I've heard many different stories about the origins of chips/fries, none of them agree completely...

      And wouldn't the chips have gone stone cold by the time they'd been transported across the north sea?

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  90. For disposable dishes by Syre · · Score: 1

    For disposable dishes, these are probably the most ecologically sound.

    They are made from leaves which are pressed into the shape of dishes or bowls. Not only are they biodegradable, but they require hardly any energy for their production, unlike plastics made from corn, which require lots of energy in production.

    I have actually used these plates, and they seem to work at least as well as paper plates.

  91. Acttualy this is not just new news by ascii(64) · · Score: 1

    Now that im awake i rememberd that the Supermarked chain Obs! in Norway was offering customers Eco-Bags. That was plastic bags made of corn....

    I was supposed to eat one on my 23. birthday but we forgot all aboutit.
    The reason for the eating was that i has clamed that all corn products taste good.

  92. Genetically Modified by ajs318 · · Score: 1

    Maize, wheat, rye and all cereals are basically genetically modified grass. OK, the genetic modification was done the slow way :-) but it's still genetic modification.

    However, I am not a biologist.

    Could someone enlighten me as to a test that would distinguish between genetic modification by selective breeding and random mutation, and genetic modification carried out using modern techniques?

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  93. Yeah. by Lispy · · Score: 1

    When I was a 16 year old kid my daddy gave me some (german) army rations wich were older than me. Creepy! ;-)

  94. Reusable isn't *always* better. by gfxguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sometimes biodegradable is preferable, especially in locations where water is not in abundance and where other issues take precedence, ike some cleaning agents in the water. Certainly some are not harmful, but unless you pass laws then there will still be people who buy the cheapest detergents and not the most environmentally friendly.

    It's also been noted, in certain locales and for certain materials, that recycling is WORSE than biodegradable and simply disposable... sometimes the process makes a bigger mess than just leaving it. That's not to say this will always be the case, but it is now.

    Unfortunately true environmentalists (like myself) have trouble convincing extreme environmentalists that sometimes they are actually working contrary to goal of having a clean planet - they have a kneejerk reaction to everything without considering the real long term effects.

    There are no generic statements about recycling and reuse that apply to everything, everywhere.

    I have seen this plastic corn based material before, and I think it's a GREAT approach to our disposable lifestyles. While I agree with you in principle (I really dislike disposable plastics, like pens and razors, for example, but I don't have a problem with the plastic being used for durable goods - like car dashboards or computer components), we have to take the world for what it is today and massage things in a way that people aren't inconvenienced. If things become even the least bit harder, a large number of people will not accept it. People are generally lazy, it's a sad fact. Not everyone, not all the time, but often enough.

    --
    Stupid sexy Flanders.
    1. Re:Reusable isn't *always* better. by mpost4 · · Score: 1

      Interesting post, I would say most of the contact I have had with environmentalists where with the extremists. To the point where I do not want to be called one, or be considered one, but what you are saying is more along the lines of what I think the way it should be. One has to look at the whole picture. Do you have a web site that I can look at for more information about your approach? Thanks for your time.

    2. Re:Reusable isn't *always* better. by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately I don't - I expect that's because extemists are more motivated to create websites, newsletters, etc.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
  95. corn-latex by POds · · Score: 1

    So now condoms come in corn flavour, cool!

    --


    Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
  96. Greenhouse gas sinks by TheSync · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The most interesting environmental question is whether carbohydrate-based plastics are a net greenhouse gas sink. Oil-based plastics pull carbon out of the ground, and put it back into landfills.

    Carbohydrate-based plastics actually pull CO2 out of the air as plants grown (good), but if they do decompose, the carbon is released as methane gas, which is actually a more powerful greenhouse warming gas than CO2 (bad).

    In the future, we may move from plants to GM bacteria that have hyper-efficient photosynthesis / chemosythesis and cellulases for materials prodcution.

    1. Re:Greenhouse gas sinks by Idarubicin · · Score: 1
      Carbohydrate-based plastics actually pull CO2 out of the air as plants grown (good), but if they do decompose, the carbon is released as methane gas, which is actually a more powerful greenhouse warming gas than CO2 (bad).

      Not always true, by any means. If the stuff is decomposed by healthy aerobic bacteria and associated critters, then the decomposition of the corn-based products should result in mostly water and carbon dioxide--which you take out of the air when you grow more corn.

      The problem is landfill disposal. Under conditions of poor air circulation, anaerobic bacteria are responsible for almost all decomposition, and they do produce methane--and an number of additional foul-smelling byproducts, too. (Actually, this bioplastic won't degrade in a landfill--virtually nothing does, because of the tight packing and lack of ready air and water circulation. Newspapers are regularly excavated from old landfill sites bearing completely legible fifty-year-old stories.)

      If our garbage were shredded, then stirred regularly to encourage aerobic decomposition, methane would be a non-issue. Actually, you won't have appreciable methane production if you just throw this stuff out on open soil or waters...though it wouldn't be pretty.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    2. Re:Greenhouse gas sinks by dharmawan · · Score: 1

      i think it's just anaerobic bacteria which produces methane because of lack of oxygen in the landfills..

      i think it should be possible to collect the methane from the landfills and use it as a fuel though

  97. Increased Demand... by Jasin+Natael · · Score: 1

    Does this mean that the government might stop the subsidization of corn, to keep up with increased demand?

    It just irks me every single time I think that my tax dollars are paying someone good money not to grow corn/sugar, etc. Like unemployment benefits, subsidy should only last long enough to get these people out of the farming business and into another job.

    --Jasin Natael

    --
    True science means that when you re-evaluate the evidence, you re-evaluate your faith.
  98. Chemurgy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    noun The branch of chemistry concerned with the industrial use of organic raw materials, esp. materials of agricultural origin.

  99. End of Oil for plastics by boy_afraid · · Score: 1

    Could this be the end of oil for plastics? I know we, the US, uses A LOT of oil for everyday plastics. If we have a homegrown solution to our dependence, then that is one more nail in the coffin for oil. COME ON ALTERNATIVE TO OIL!!!

  100. Eco Golf by Spoke · · Score: 1

    Eco Golf has been making corn based golf tees and balls for ages.

    http://www.ecogolf.com/

  101. I had a Pen made of Corn... by Talkischeap · · Score: 2, Interesting

    About 12 years ago I ran across some pens made of 100% corn "plastic", so I bought a bunch of them for gifts.

    Of course, they were a "hit" as gifts because they were so unusual.

    But they were quite a bit more flexible than petrochemical based plastic pens, so writing with them was kind of weird.

    And the BIG drawback with them was...

    If you lived in a humid environment, they would self destruct. Like in, get gooey, and sticky, and holes melting in them.

    Neat idea, but waaay too bio-degradable for an object that needs to be around until it's empty of ink.

    --
    If it don't GO... chrome it. ~ Frank Banks
    1. Re:I had a Pen made of Corn... by joskay · · Score: 1

      http://www.ueco.ab.ca/index.htm has them if I am reading the information correctly

  102. Corn-tainers are a START by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I live right across the street from Nature's(a wild oats market) here in Portland, OR.

    These containers started showing up in the last month or so, but only on COLD products. Anything served hot in their deli cases comes in good old fashioned plastic or lined cardboard. The containers don't seem to melt to easily in hot water so I assume that it would take a bit of time and heat to start the decomposition process. And mind you that while they are compostable, I'm not taking them out back to the heap and just tossing them in... it still goes in the garbage just like everything else.

    It's a start, but we definitely could use some more progress in this arena. The day I can walk over there and buy some of their yummy roast chicken with mac&cheese, and have the container be completely eco-friendly... well, is the day i have to start figuring out what to do with all these old computer parts lying around!

  103. Ford made a car out of Soybeans... by Talkischeap · · Score: 1

    Did you know that Henry Ford built a car reportedly made out of soybeans? Ford intended to replace as many items in his automobiles with plant based materials as he could.

    Plant based plastic has been around for many decades, but the commercial development of them stopped around the start of WW2.

    I haven't been able to find the definitive source of this Ford information, but here's an interesting photo.

    Henry Ford hitting a 1941 Ford car made from soybean plastic.
    http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/hf/soycar.jpg

    --
    If it don't GO... chrome it. ~ Frank Banks
    1. Re:Ford made a car out of Soybeans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So should I also support Hitler ?

  104. What a horrible idea by DotComVictim · · Score: 1

    Not the bio-plastic, that is a great idea.

    The directions for making it:

    Put the cornstarch, corn oil and water inside a plastic bag and microwave it.

    So now, you are using plastic to make bio-plastic? Doesn't that defeat the point? And teaching young kids that microwaving plastic bags is ok is horrible. It's well known that doing this generates harmful dioxins.

    Then the children are encouraged to play with this and form it into balls.

    I see what is going on here. Some anti-earth industrialists have conspired to induce our young ones into ingesting dioxins at a young and sensitive age, harming their reproductive system, and leading to infertility, in order to reduce future populations of environmentalists. Call your congresspeople now, and get this bio-plastic learning unit banned!

  105. the problem already exists with wheat by SolemnDragon · · Score: 1
    ...especially for people like me, and i was the one submitting the article. They even use wheat starch in some of the waxes on foods. SO my ideal solution would be to have corn packaging- yours would be to have waxed paper make a comeback as the packaging of choice, i guess, or for them to come up with a packaging that's relatively hypoallergenic but still biodegradeable.

    The real question is when the standards will shift to include individual needs- can i walk in and get my gluten-and-chemical-additive-free (whatever food product can be made thus) in a corn-tastic plastic container, and can she walk in right after me and get the same food CORN-free, in a non-corn biodegradeable container? When that can happen, we'll have made it. I'm all for more options and more labelling. Lactose is another real problem for a lot of people, and it's used in lots of things, without putting any word on the label about it. Your GF probably knows to avoid anything labelled 'natural flavours,' right?

    I"m glad folks are working towards biodegradeable materials; it's going to take some serious lawsuits before they start thinking about individual issues. (this is, after all, the states....)

  106. Smoking vs. Eating vs. other delivery mechanisms by billstewart · · Score: 1
    Disclaimer: The statute of limitations is your friend. All these events happened a long, long time ago. :-)

    Different ingestion methods affect different people differently. I've found that smoking marijuana hits me at the right pace, and gives me some control over the effects. Eating brownies, on the other hand, doesn't do anything. At all. For an hour or so. At which point I need to sit down while I still remember which way down is and what sitting is for. I missed the middle of a couple of Grateful Dead shows before deciding that wasn't for me. Also, smoking is much less nasty if you're smoking small quantities of high-THC buds as opposed to large quantities of low-THC leaves, and if you use something to cool the smoke instead of those little tiny pipes.


    Even longer ago, an acquaintance of mine and his druggie friends decided to experiment on the effects of delivery mechanisms with another drug. Reasoning that with opium, cocaine, and cannabis, the effects of the drug are much different between ingesting the raw plant form or the chemically refined powder or smoking the refined powder, they wondered about the effects of smoking caffeine. So they crunched up some No-Doz and smoked it. Do not do this.... My friend said that all the bad things that caffeine normally does to you happened very quickly - headaches, jitters, nausea, speediness - and that it was a highly unpleasant experience.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  107. latex is renewable! by Garridan · · Score: 1

    Why make a corn substitute? I sure wouldn't want to pull out and find that half of my condom has dissolved...

  108. Dump her! by Garridan · · Score: 1

    I mean it, too. At the very least, don't plan on reproducing. Egalitarianism works fine 'til it gets in Darwin's way. People with strong allergies, and other genetic ailments should have the common sense to adopt. Do the species a favor, and keep her genes out of the pool.

  109. Corn Fibre and Fabric by redwolfoz · · Score: 1

    It's not only plastic that is made from corn, so is fibre and from that fabric.

    Cargill Dow is one of several companies creating a corn fibre trademarked as Ingeo. I haven't yet seen the fibre, but I'll be getting a sample in a week or so.

    A similar product is Soy Silk (another trademarked term) which is a fibre created as a soy processing by-product. The hype claims that it is a silk substitute. Reality proves otherwise.

    It does have a very silk-like sheen, has a pleasing natural colour, is very soft and demands to be fondled in it's fibrous form. It lacks the static nature of silk (a plus) but doesn't take colour as well (a minus). It also has a much shorter staple that silk, requiring that it be spun like cotton rather than true silk.

    --
    and the werewolves came...
    and they ate him...
    and they drank his beer...
  110. Probably, but... by midnightcandidate · · Score: 1

    I wonder what happens when you try to microwave it?