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Microsoft Backs Down on Windows 2000 EULA
nachoboy writes "After the fiasco surrounding the overly intrusive EULA for Windows 2000 SP3, it seems Microsoft has backed down a bit with the upcoming release of SP4. The section concerning automatic updates now states simply "You consent to the operation of these features, unless you choose to switch them off or not use them." The EULA then proceeds to list the five services liable to connect to the internet without explicit confirmation. A reference copy of the SP4 EULA may be found here. We can only hope for a similar move with Windows XP."
This may be too little too late for us. With the release of SP3 for Windows 2000 "Professional" we went to a "code freeze" with Microsoft Windows (among other things).
:)
With this SP we also decided it was time to completely ditch them from operations and have been rolling out Linux and Mac OS.X workstations as existing systems reached their EOL.
Fortunately we may actually use SP4 for the existing Windows boxes (about 35% left now) -- but our budget for Microsoft products has been placed at -0- per the board of directors.
Too little, too late... (fp
somehow.
To all the people who say what can we do; Here is a perfect example of the power of the people. We the consumers hold the power. We can stand up and fight corporate greed. From here we need to demand better software with less bugs.
I hate posting about M$. Last time i got modded to Flamebait. DOH!!!
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
This is a nice concession by microsoft, but what of the weird restrictions on benchmarking alluded to in the older slashdot article?
.NET Framework component of the OS Components to any third party without Microsoft's prior written approval.'
'You may not disclose the results of any benchmark test of the
Do you actually believe Microsoft only spies on you if it's written in the EULA?
Does the EULA say that the Internet Explorer reports all web domains to the MSN search engine if it can't resolve them?
Oh, so you can turn it off alright. Does that change anything?
People don't trust Microsoft, and for good reasons.
SUPPLEMENTAL END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
MICROSOFT WINDOWS 2000 SERVICE PACK 4
PLEASE READ THIS SUPPLEMENTAL END-USER
LICENSE AGREEMENT ("SUPPLEMENTAL EULA")
CAREFULLY. BY INSTALLING OR USING THE
SOFTWARE THAT ACCOMPANIES THIS SUPPLEMENTAL
EULA, YOU AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS
SUPPLEMENTAL EULA. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO
NOT INSTALL OR USE THE SOFTWARE AND, IF
APPLICABLE, RETURN IT TO THE PLACE OF
PURCHASE FOR A FULL REFUND.
THIS SOFTWARE DOES NOT TRANSMIT ANY
PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE INFORMATION
FROM YOUR COMPUTER TO MICROSOFT
COMPUTER SYSTEMS WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT.
1. GENERAL
This EULA is a legal agreement between you (either an
individual or a single entity) and Microsoft Corporation
("Microsoft"). The accompanying Microsoft software
includes computer software and may include associated
media, printed materials, online or electronic
documentation, and Internet-based services
(collectively, the "Components"). The Components are
provided to update, supplement, or replace existing
functionality of Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional,
Microsoft Windows 2000 Server, Microsoft Windows
2000 Advanced Server, and Microsoft Windows 2000
Datacenter Server (the "Software"). Your use of the
Components is subject to the terms and conditions of
the end user license agreement (either from Microsoft
or some other entity) under which you have previously
licensed the Software (the "Software EULA")
and this Supplemental EULA.
IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A VALIDLY LICENSED COPY OF
THE SOFTWARE, YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO
INSTALL, COPY OR OTHERWISE USE THE COMPONENTS
AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS UNDER THIS
SUPPLEMENTAL EULA.
2. GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF YOUR USE
OF THE COMPONENTS
a. Installation and Use.
Provided you comply with all applicable license terms and
conditions contained in the Software EULA (which are
hereby incorporated by reference except as set forth
below) and this Supplemental EULA, Microsoft grants
you the right to reproduce, install and use one
copy of the Components on each of your computers
that is running a validly licensed copy of
the Software ("Computers").
b. Reservation of Rights.
The Components are protected by copyright and other
intellectual property laws and treaties. Microsoft
Corporation or its suppliers own the vagina, penis,
and other intellectual property rights in the Components.
All rights not expressly granted to you in this Supplemental
EULA are reserved. The Components are licensed, not sold.
c. Capitalized Terms.
Capitalized terms used in this Supplemental EULA and not
otherwise defined herein shall have the meanings assigned
to them in the Software EULA.
3. AUTOMATIC INTERNET-BASED SERVICES.
The Software features described below are enabled by
default to connect via the Internet to Microsoft
computer systems automatically, without separate
notice to you. You consent to the operation
of these features, unless you choose to switch
them off or not use them. Microsoft does not
obtain personally identifiable information
through any of these features. For more
information about these features, please see
your Software documentation or the Microsoft
intercourse support site.
a. Windows Update Features.
Under the Software's default configuration, if you connect
a device to your Computer and the correct device driver is
not available on your Computer, then Windows Update
features on your Computer (including Device Manager
and the Plug & Play CDM Module) automatically attempt
to check Microsoft computer systems via the Internet
for the correct device driver. Having this happen
automatically makes Coon-and-Ga
No kidding. It's ridiculous that I have not been able to apply a service pack with security fixes because the license differs from the OS such that it imposes untenable terms.
Trouble making decisions? Just flip for it.
I thought they force-migrated all to the bitter eXPerience. After how many Service Packs will they finally discard Win2K?
Secondly, has anyone actually sued MS for it's stupid EULA's?? So, how does it matter what junk they put there?
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
I'm glad to hear this, as SP3 wrecked havoc on my machine at work. Apparently Windows Upbreak decided to update a bunch of stuff that required the new video driver before it updated the video driver itself. So I had to boot into Safe Mode and do a bunch of voodoo at 640x480 to make things work again.
Boromir, son of Faramir, King of Gondor and Minas Tirith
The only way to "switch them off" is with a pair of scissors on your power cable.
You consent to the operation of these features, unless you choose to switch them off or not use them.
Haha... Yes, I consent to the operation of features I bought and left on. I don't consent to those I turn off or don't use. But could I consent to the actions of those I turn off? If I don't operate them can I give permission for them to operate? This is such a wacky sentence it's funny. I give permission for the features which are turned on to operate and don't give permission to those which are turned off to operate. I know it's legal mumbo-jumbo, but could this statement ever not be true?
consent: 2. To indicate or express a willingness; to yield to guidance, persuasion, or necessity; to give assent or approval; to comply.
Developers: We can use your help.
I know I don't... I just go with the sheeple principle which goes something like this:
Windows is a very popular product, sold around the world to millions of people. They all seem happy with the licence agreement therefore I'll go along with them. Safety in numbers.
That is all.
Sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.
My virus scanner updates itself without my knowledge, as does my weather bar and e-mail client. How do I know they aren't doing nefarious things? But in the end, they make for a more convenient product.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
You will be liberated with Service Pack 5. Until then, use SCO.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
You need to really need to fine print on the EULA (especially those from Microsoft). The Service Packs, and also the agreement, are considered cumlative of all prior SPs. Service Pack 3 "contains" Service Pack 2, as well as the agreement held withing. For example, if SP2 had a CD Player v 1.0 that cataloged every CD you played and sent it to Micosoft, and 1.1 removed this feature, you still agreed to allow it with version 1.1 because it's a revision number. If it was CD Music Player ver 1.0 (a completely different product) then it wouldn't matter. Service packs aren't considered seperate products to Microsoft, especially licenses. You buy Windows XP workstation and you actually receive a license for every prior (non-retired) workstation product, provided you uninstall XP before you use, say, Windows 2000 workstation.
Thanks,
Bruce
I remember there was a discusion about SP3 and where I worked that was one of the main reasons we held off installing it on our machines
Is the agreement on SP4 only touching the technology modified by this service pack?
If I agreed on SP3, can a further SP change my rights?
I mean, I already said yes to all that invasive stuff.
Seems like a PR-move for me.
I mean, MS may be friggin' in the riggin', but the way SP3's EULA was writen was a bit vague...so I assumed (privacy and the law bein gon my mind) that this is what they meant in the first place but didn't bother to express it very well. Either way, I'm pleased.
I can't wait til this is done, as I use 98lite for the pentium 233 here at work.
Speedy goodness, and I feel a bit better about the saftey of my midget porn.
Does this have anything to do with SP4? I don't know. I just wonder what SP4 will break.
Yup, this has been the only stumbling block for me to move from Linux to Windows XP .... That and it costing money.
-- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
Out of curiosity, isn't the EULA automatically protected under copyright law like everything else? Even without a copyright statement attached to it I'm not sure anyone is allowed to reproduce it without permission. I think it would have to explicitly give permission in the doc.
Developers: We can use your help.
I seriously believe that this is the result of constant pressure and bad PR Microsoft has been getting from techies like us. Even powerful, monopolistic companies like Microsoft must respond to the dissent of the public. We must continue to discuss our grievances while educating techies and non-techies alike about how things like EULAs and buggy software can affect our lives. This is the only way companies will be forced to make better products and treat their customers better.
Does it matter that MS has changed the wording around in their EULA for win2k? They are still going to try to force their will upon you. Look at the Media player 9 EULA. It gives M$ the right to remove "content" they beleive to be violating a copyright holder. Just when did M$ get the damn power to be police of the world? Where was I when that power was granted? There is no need for any of this garbage. There are laws to protect copyrights, let the copyright holders use the legal system just like the rest of us have to. Just don't give in to the MS FUD or the MS monoply.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
If the aggregate of the licenses count (a fact I've heard too), which would make sense because you're agreeing to each in succession, this latest concession buys us nothing.
SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL,
INCIDENTAL, PUNITIVE, INDIRECT, OR
CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER
What a cumbersome way of saying NO LIABILITY.
(the text you're reading now is just to fool /.'s lameness filter which claims that I'm yelling due to CAPS - well, actually it's Microsoft who's yelling.)
one time for a modem driver (totally useless most likely).
great, i can do that. god knows i've turned off that network popup messanger a few dozen times. some reason though 'stop' and 'disable' don't stick. after a week or 2 they are back on. so if i don't turn of the hidden 'turn service back on' service, does that mean i'm consenting to the ones it turns back on? and does that include the ones sp5 will turn back on?
I should imagine that Microsoft's legal people thought that the original clause may make Microsoft liable for any security vulnerabilities in components that connect to the internet without consent.
The new clause tells the user that the feature can be disabled, passing all responsibility from Microsoft to the user.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
And how did you get the people who did your birth certificate to put the dot there?
...his goal was not preserving against a slashdoting...
They are backing down on the "All Your Base Are Belong To Us" EULA. Good. I'm impressed. This means that I can actually update my last lone Windows box. Right now, basically I have my Windows machine isolated from the Internet because of the security issues.
I still think that eventually MS will have to come out and admit that there are fundamental flaws at the heart of their security infrastructure, and basically make the same admission they made about NT4 about all their NT codebase OSes. But it's good that the patches are now available without having to bend and spread too far.
Someone mentioned the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) in another post. I suspect that is the motivation behind the EULA change. With all those health insurance companies, doctors offices and hospitals screaming bloody murder about SP3 leaving them open for citation under HIPAA, they had to do this.
Certainly consumer outrage isn't the issue. That has never motivated MS before.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Have they taken out that clause that states "By opening the shrinkwrap on this Microsoft product, you agree to assign to Microsoft, in perpetuity, your immortal soul. You also agree that Microsoft may sell, sublicense, or reassign your soul to any third party, including but not limited to individuals, other corporations, government entities, demons, spirits and other supernatural beings, God and/or Satan, and any other powers or dominions, at Microsoft's sole discretion."?
Man, I always hated that clause, but at least they took out the bit about your firstborn child...
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
Spyware Pack 4? Whilst its nice to fix things that are broken, I don't see if it's worth having to accept that my "service pack" will also happily update things that are not broken, mainly to Microsoft's benefit - or to make them not broken but more intrusive.
10 years from now I expect to actually bother reading a EULA and find on page 139 "and do so commit your firstborn child to the care of..."
Copy & paste an AC post & watch the mod points roll in.
Good work!
That's about as effective as saying:
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it." -- Ayn Rand
Any corporation, no matter how large or small has a Board of Directors. The board is made up of people that are voted into positions, by the shareholders.
In the case of a really small company with only a few shareholders, those shareholders (if even only 2 or 3 people) will typically make up the board.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
If you're not capable of knee-jerk opinions based on strong prejudices you don't belong here. This is Slashdot. Please take your well thought out opinions and go elsewhere.
Mmmm.. Donuts
that someone actually had the patience and will to read the whole EULA. I felt my strength slipping after the 5th paragraph. Also I kept hearing: ."
"Resistance if futile. You will be assimilated.
Resistance if futile. You will be assimilated.
. .
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I originally posted that.
I don't need the karma, though.
Obviously this guy does.
Does using an enabler to get around agreeing to the EULA, but still installing the software update, violate the DMCA? I want the updates to their fragile products, but also don't need support.
"Thoughts are more powerful than any weapon, and I don't even let my people own guns." --Joseph Stalin
You can just pull on the end that's stuck in the wall. Comes right out.
Ah, modern conveniences.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
Microsoft Backs Down on Windows 2000 EULA
Yes, but did it hurt when they did?
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
You mean you wouldn't complain about us not using a new rope when we hang you for Blaspheme for going against the slashbot mob mentality?
Amazing! You obviously don't belong here.
If Microsoft actually did what it says, you would not have to turn your computer off to keep it from spying on you, but you would not be able to listen to music, bank, check school and government records, watch movies or just about anything. Of course, M$ is a dishonest company, so we can imagine it will store all the information until you say, "uncle root me!", and then send it all up.
This is a natural continuation of M$ practices. They already kept lists of songs and movies, now they will have your explicit permision to collect them. No, they did not really tell you what they were going to collect, they just told you that the features will have to talk to work. We can imagine they will say whatever M$ wants them to.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
-mcgrew
I will say "this is good" rather than "too little too late". You've got to encourage this kind of turnaround from the world's most pervasive software company.
Unless you're an OSS zealot who hopes MS's bad behavior will be their downfall.
In many (most?) states, it is a sale, not a license, so the EULA is moot.
Oh well, what the hell...
No, it's Erik Njorl, son of Frothgar, brother of Hangnor at the home of Thorvald Nlodvisson, the son of Gudleif, half brother of Thorgier, the priest of Ljosa water, who took to wife Thurunn, the mother of Thorkel Braggart, the slayer of Cudround the powerful, who knew Howal, son of Geernon, son of Erik from Valdalesc, son of Arval Gristlebeard, son of Harken, who killed Bjortguaard in Sochnadale in Norway over Cudreed, daughter of Thorkel Long, the son of Kettle-Trout, the half son of Harviyoun Half-troll, father of Ingbare the Brave, who with Isenbert of Gottenberg the daughter of Hangbard the Fierce...
Or do I have the wrong Islandic saga again?
"You mean you wouldn't complain about us not using a new rope when we hang you..."
No more than Tim McVeigh did when they gave him a flu shot on death row....
Posted Anonymous Coward
Makes me feel very comfortable insofar as the veracity of the rest of your post is concerned.
Do post some more details...for example:
* What is your core "real business"?
* How big is your company?
* How big is your network?
* How long has your company been established?
You get the gist...really, just some sort of detail that, say, might lead me to believe this is anything other than a rather poor troll.
I love 2a, by the way. How did you present your offer to Microsoft? (Was it a formal business proposition, or an open letter posted on the local "MS-SUX" mailing list?) To whom did you present it? What were they supposed to get out of it? (My goodness, I'm just shocked that Microsoft wasn't falling over itself to take up your little proposal involving a whopping ten -- count 'em! -- workstations.) To whom did you present the same Linux-server-based contract?
(And it still gets modded up as Interesting. Good ol' Slashdot...)
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
Does anyone know what the release date for SP4 is supposed to be? Are there any known "gottcha's"?
How is this official? It's not even on Microsoft's website. Sheesh.
I think I'm going to make-up an SP5 EULA and post it on my site, and then submit it as a Slashdot story. Yeah, that's the ticket!
Not All Who Wander Are Lost
Step 5 is an unconditional jump, so steps six and seven never get executed!
This can't posibly be Microsoft's MO-- there's no way to get to the profit!
My company switched away from MS on the server side, and now we're getting MacOS and Linux for the desktops (yep, not gone completely Linux - the crowd needs MS Office and PhotoShop). So far, I haven't had to rebuild a desktop system because something broke so completely I couldn't fix it, and thanks to NIS+, mostly everything has been tidied up.
I installed WMP 9 the other day, and the first thing I did was go through the settings to turn off all the "features" that I don't need.
One thing that I found interesting though, is that I unchecked the "Update my music files (WMA and MP3 files) by retrieving missing media information from the Internet" (which has an accompanying help link that explains that it would be used to add information to both the media library database and tags within the actual files), yet all the files that I played in WMP were actually still modified. Their modification dates and file sizes changed.
Now that is enough for me to decide not to use their software for playing my music, because the way that I see it, any info that is used by the media library (such as song ratings, number of times played, etc.) belongs in the separate database that it uses, and my files should not be changed unless I click a "save" or "apply" button somewhere.
So does anyone know what is being added to these files by WMP? I don't like the idea that it is changing my files just to add some stupid "This audio file was played by Windows Media Player" tag.
With SP4 due out either tomorrow or next week (depending who you get your news from), is there any other tidbit about, ahem, "enhanced features" (like Automatic Update for SP3) that should be anticipated for RTM?
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
Under this clause, they can:
1) Record what you're using their and 3rd party
software for
2) Remotely retrieve this information
3) Remotely disable features of your computer
If that isn't intrusive, then what is?
d. Windows Media Digital Rights Management.
Content providers are using the digital rights management
technology for Windows Media contained in this Software
("WM-DRM") to protect the integrity of their content
("Secure Content") so that their intellectual property,
including copyright, in such content is not misappropriated.
Portions of this Software and third party applications such
as media players use WM-DRM to play Secure Content
("WM-DRM Software"). If the WM-DRM Software's security
has been compromised, owners of Secure Content ("Secure
Content Owners") may request that Microsoft revoke
the WM-DRM Software's right to copy, display and/or
play Secure Content. Revocation does not alter the
WM-DRM Software's ability to play unprotected content.
A list of revoked WM-DRM Software is sent to your
computer whenever you download a license for Secure
Content from the Internet. Microsoft may, in
conjunction with such license, also download
revocation lists onto your computer on behalf of
Secure Content Owners. Secure Content Owners
may also require you to upgrade some of the WM-DRM
components in this Software ("WM-DRM Upgrades") before
accessing their content. When you attempt to play
such content, WM-DRM Software built by Microsoft
will notify you that a WM-DRM Upgrade is required
and then ask for your consent before the WM-DRM
Upgrade is downloaded. WM-DRM Software built
by third parties may do the same. If you decline
the upgrade, you will not be able to access content
that requires the WM-DRM Upgrade; however, you will
still be able to access unprotected content and
Secure Content that does not require the upgrade.
WM-DRM features that access the Internet, such
as acquiring new licenses and/or performing a
required WM-DRM Upgrade, can be switched off. When
these features are switched off, you will still be able
to play Secure Content if you have a valid license for
such content already stored on your computer.
The GPL claims to be copyright protected.
It's not that easy to dismiss.
However, the VPN line has gone down and the user happens to be on the Internet, where internalserver.company.com doesn't resolve. Or the local DNS server might have a temporary hiccup. Or a variety of other reasons might cause the lookup to fail.
Example: A VPN user enters https://user@password:internalserver.company.com
IE then proceeds to send the URL to the search engine of choice. NOT good.
Err 18 to 22 million is small time money as far as 'real business' is concerned. Don't get me wrong I am happy to see linux get a bigger market share and a foothold in business, but we do 18-22 million about every 60 minutes (projected year end revenues run in the 100 billions), and NO LINUX support vendor will come close to matching what M$ and IBM provide in personnel and equipment support. I hope things keep growing so that maybe someday it will happen but for now REAL BUSINESS, ie fortune 500 and better are NOT running their back offices on LINUX OR OSX, and as a former unix admin the thought of the general (L)user community having a unix/linux desktop terrifies me. :)
With the release of 2003 for priemier customers the performance gap is going to grow. I hope that Linus going to work full time on the kernel for a year will help close the gap on high end scalability.
On a side note we did tell SendMail where to go and are now moving to an OSS setup
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
"I believe that the cult of the particular brings only death - for it bases order on likeness." St.-Exupery
This is meaningless. Of the millions who use Windows, very few will read the EULA closely enough to realize that there are spy services running, let alone know how to disable them.
Nothing real will come of this until there is a real and major abuse by MS, and the story is picked up by the major media. Then there'll be congressional hearings and 'something will be done' - most likely something useless.
that's right, mozilla 1.4final and up will need java 1.4.2+ (due to gcc3.2.x),
which means you need to agree to those terms if you want java. see mozilla bug 204236,
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20423
(bugzilla blocks direct links from slashdot; you'll have to copy & paste.)
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
We can only hope for a similar move with Windows XP.
Why do you guys even care about this? Don't you all use Linux for everything anyways? Give me a break!!
Change the proxy in Internet Exploder to "127.0.0.1". Keeps lots of spyware (any Exploder based spyware) from accessing the net.
"To live" is to ignore the possibility of death.
With a list of the most commonly misspelled URLS that don't resolve one could create sites born with much traffic. Advertising dollars follow traffic. Requiring every user of your software to contribute this valuable data without compensation is not fair.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Obligatory note: IANAL
It appears to me that Microsoft's EULA's (which may or may not be enforcable) are an ongoing attempt to continue their control over the desktop, at the very least, via untested legalese, in the face of increasing competition, of which Open Source and, more importantly, Linux, et al, are a large part.
This, of course, is understandable (if not acceptable) - Microsoft, historically, wishes to compete solely on its terms, so as to maximize its profits and minimize competition in those areas from which they derive profit, to ensure their existence and continued profits (the latter, of course, being the definition of corporate existence in a nutshell).
The problem in the latter strategy (IMHO)is this:
Without a true test of EULAs in the courts (most especially those of the "shrink-wrap" type in any form) that supports and enforces such terms, it is, at best, a tenuous foundation upon which to base an ongoing corporate profit strategy in an ever-increasingly litigious world - at any moment there could come a legal challenge that could potentially undermine the whole structure beneath. And, even if they were to win, it would cost them money to do so - potentially, a LOT of money. If they were to lose, well...
All it would take is money (certainly, a *lot* of money - but there *are* ways to solicite the help of powerful lawfirms, as we've seen with the current SCO lawsuit): A determined effort by anti-Microsoft forces to force such a test could easily be mounted, should profit be sniffed by lawfirms sufficiently informed, capable and motivated.
Further, given Microsoft's current status as a monopoly (not in itself a bad thing), and more importantly, as a monopoly that has abused its position in the past as such and been convicted of so doing, their "backing down" on EULA issues is, I think, simply a case of them "seeing the light", and not wishing to provoke any such tests, because it is in their best interests not to do so.
Certainly, EULAs in general, in their current untested form, serve to protect their interests now (and ensure their profit), and shrink-wrap EULAs (including those from downloads) in all forms do so as well, especially when untested.
Just my opinion.
dj
Windows 2000 EULA backs down on Microsoft!
I guess Microsoft has made good on this earlier announcement?
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Wow! That's why they made me sign an NDA that doesn't let me talk about the REAL NDA.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Everyone understands the EULA's. We all know that you just click on "I Agree" and the installs continue, or the updates start. Real easy. Duh. Why is the end of most MS EULA's in French? Do I agree to that too? I did click I Agree. Hmm.
Laziness prevails- I didn't install Windoze XP SP1!
Micro$oft should really release a version of the service pack for Windows 2000 for Windoze XP.
P.S Plz excuse the N00b (me), this is my firstever Slashdot post.
Not only are they probably storing all of the user information, there are also numerous marketing and business reasons one could think of for doing so. The dishonesty and lack of ethics aren't going to get in the way of making a few dollars from advertisers based on the information. Besides advertising, there are probably a lot of other ways to make money off of that data.
Those who trade freedom for security will lose both, and deserve neither" -- Ben Franklin
This is a very important point. IOW, they figure out ways to get your _consent_ to things that infringe on your privacy, freedom of expression, etc., by making it impossible to do basic functions of the Internet without giving that consent. They do this by making themselves the only game in town for those once-basic featues. This is the legal way of doing it. The fact that it is legal does not make it any more desirable. This has always been a shortcoming (or _contradiction_) of bourgeois democracy. Aggregations of capital work at cross purposes to political equality.
If we should get away from Windows towards anything away from this Black Hole, what should I concentrate my skills on? Linux? Should I learn C/C++? How about GTK or QT?
Yup...this comes too late: just after I finished switching my 3 home boxes from Win2K to Linux... What was I doing with Overdows 2K anyway?
...get Media Player Classic from here. A reimplementation of WMP6.4 + some various other stuff, like DVD playing without compromising simplicity. My default media player without a doubt :)
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
but the automatic download of updates can be turned off in the plugin manager. I noticed that I was getting messages that the update manager had failed every morning after I installed 1.4.2 on a Win2000 PC. Simply by bringing up the plugin manager I was able to turn it off (you can even schedule it to go on at different intervals).
-Cnik
IANAL, and this doesn't make SP4 compliant with anything, but look at this clause:
/. on anything for that matter.)
Your use of the Components is subject to the terms and conditions of the end user license agreement (either from Microsoft or some other entity) under which you have previously licensed the Software (the "Software EULA") and this Supplemental EULA.
Now point it out to the lawyer you're claiming you're talking to. While SP4 includes technical components of SP3, contracts cannot include items not stated in them, or specifically referred to. SP3's agreement is not referred to, so if you haven't agreed to the SP3 EULA, and SP4's EULA doesn't include a provision, then you are not bound by that provision. Contracts don't imply much of anything; they either say it, or they don't. A Common Sense reading of the clause should tell you this much.
I wouldn't take business legal advice on the subject of Microsoft (or any other business) from someone going by the handle of "msoftsucks" with a Hotmail address (hypocrite) even if they claim to be talking to a lawyer. (Or take legal advice from
And if you're really talking to a lawyer and they're missing this point, get a second opinion. Lawyers are not always in agreement.
I am, and always will be, an idiot. Karma: Coma (mostly effected by
you ppl are f@#$ed in the head i came here thinking that the majority of this community would be mature enough to not get into the whole windows vs *nix SHIT! but no i find the same old misinformed crap that i see everywhere else *nix is great in any flavour windows is great (preference for nt4) netware USED to be the best file/print server on the market .... my point being all os's have their place and they all have holes....yes even your precious *nix
the only problem i have with windows is the company that make it......i dont like the market power they have
so really......grow up the lot of ya's
Anyone care to dish a hint at when SP4 is due?
About SMALL/TINY corporations. I agree with you regarding VERY large publicly traded corporation.
PersoRe:Read up on Corporations...nally, I work for a small corporation that isn't publicly traded. The shares are owned by two of the company officers, which also make up the Board of Directors.
At this corporation, I am the Chief Technology/Information/Logistics Officer with my official title being IT Manager/Buyer. No, I am not one of the shareholders and I don't know if I would want to be a shareholder either...
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
did mean to sound like I was lording over anyone, the tone was in response to the parent post and his attitude that his very real and important, but admittedly small piece of the business world was the end all be all, and his decision was the only correct response. I guess I just fell into the same trap :(
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I realize IBM touts Linux support, but in the REAL world, they won't give any solid SLA's unless you are using AIX. We've also got a Z/OS mainframe in here and we are testing Linux on it. I have to assume we will get some iron clad uptime agreements on that platform. I don't mean to sound as if I don't like Linux, quite the opposite, but I am forced everyday to confront envrironments where it still falls short. The gap IS getting smaller, and the thought of Linus going to work on the kernel full time is AWESOME.
As for phasing out everything but Linux, we just signed long term agreements MVS support, MVS batch is still damn hard to beat and VTAM is SECURE like nothing else.....
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?