Slashdot Mirror
Working with ADHD?
Famanoran asks: "I've recently been diagnosed ADHD ? and am now taking Ritalin. I've found that it helps me rather significantly, but I'm keen to try other things that may help. My question is to the ADHD'ers on slashdot: How have you coped with ADHD, and how have you found it affect your work performance? Do you object to having ADHD? Have you tried natural alternatives such as DPA/EPA (Omega3), 5-HTP (natural precursor to serotonin), and what were your results? Also - How do you find it working in groups of people, either as the only ADHD'er there, or in a group of ADHD'ers? Do you think that your ADHD contributes to your abilities technically, or is it a hinderance?" Previously, Ask Slashdot dealt with ADHD in children, now what suggestion do you have for the grown-ups, with the additional burden of a career, who find themselves in the same situation?
I keep reading something about ADH...whatever. Oh look! String!
Vote for global prefs bug
I just want to clear up some of the preconceptions of this awful mental problem so that we don't get 101 trolls and joke-masters scoring mod points.
Basically, ADHD stands for Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder.. oh my god, this is so boring, let's talk about Perl!! NO! NO! NO! Let's talk about Java!! Oh that's off topic, I gotta go program, no I gotta go eat, yes eat lots of stuff!
I'm getting so sick of sitting at this computer I'm gunna go and ta
mogorific carpentry experiments
I have it - diagnosed >10 years ago. STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM RITALIN! Tell the doctor you want Wellbutrin - it works better and has far fewer side effects. As far as working with it - good luck. If you are anything like me, good luck holding a job. I get bored quickly. This is necessarily a bad thing. I have very valuable skills and have no problems finding jobs.
I haven't really had a problem with ADHD, even though I get distracted easily sometimes. I think coffee seems to help a lot, though that's just me. I never took ritalin, but I was on Adderall for a while (it's similar to ritalin, though not quite the same). I really disliked taking it though, because I felt really odd, lost my appetite and had frequent headaches. I honestly think that it's hyped to be a larger problem than it really is.
I suggest Focusyn, but beware, side-effects include making you think Major League Baseball is watching your every move!
You are most certainly incorrect, my friend. ADHD is a neurological disorder and those tasks do not require true concentration -- just a form of "zoning out." They are non-chemical stimulants, exactly what caffeine does chemically. In fact, Ritalin is very close to cocaine in chemical composition -- and is a stimulant, just like your proposed caffeine. So, I'm no doctor, but I certainly can offer something along the way of non-useless pseudo-advice.
In the 70's there were experiements done that proved that Caffeine helps people with AD(H)D concentrate.. Having ADHD myself, I find that medication does not help me get my work done. I just force myself to sit down and get the stuff out of the way.
I really have no idea what I am talking about.
I have found that ADHD makes me more creative than most people but that it also makes me a much poorer student, I had a half ride scholarship to one of the top comp sci schools in the country and was placed on academic probation in under a year despite having a 3.8 in my major, I found I just wasn't able to study for the classes that didn't hold my interest. The great thing is that my job really does hold my interest and so I am able to focus my manic energy towards getting stuff done, but the sepurfelous things like paperwork and stuff tend to fall by the wayside until my boss gets on me to get em done. As for coping with it I mostly have tried a balanced diet rich in dark vegtables and have tried to wein myself off of caffeine (I used to drink a 2 liter of Mt. Dew during an 8 hour shift).
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Blockwars:go play!
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
ADHD is a often bad diagnosis. It's like saying "My kid is too kid-like." I'll explain...
I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child because I could not pay attention in class. The real issue was I had/have a hearing disorder that makes it very difficult for me to zero in on specific sounds and tune others out.
This bogus diagnosis led to improper treatment. Sure, the drugs helped, but the underlying problem was not addressed, and I did not reach my full potential.
Do not trust western medicine like it's never wrong.
Compared to war, all other forms of human endeavor shrink to insignificance. God, how I love it. - Gen. George Patton
I was better when I could get Ritalin, but I can't find a doctor who will prescribe it any more. They're all afraid of lawsuits. (In Florida, anyway.)
Performance-wise, I'm sure I don't get nearly as much done on any single aspect of any one particular project, but the style I've adapted works for me: keep several projects going simultaneously and switch between them when you get bored or start to find your mind wandering.
I'm sure I'd make my employers happier if I could get the project-de-jour finished faster, but since what's important on any given day seems to be totally random anyway, in the long run, it hasn't seemed to cause any real problems. Meanwhile, I"ve learned to knit, ride a unicycle, and play the ukelele.
To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target
...any site claiming to have 'information' on something when that site is specifically in place to try and scare people away from something (like, say, psychiatry).
Reliable info on psychiatric medications is unlikely to come from a group referring to itself as the Antipsychiatry Coalition. That is what is referred to as 'bias'.
Hmm, well. As someone who's also been diagnosed with ADHD, I have found that the most effective treatment is just to get outside in the fresh air and get a bit of excersize every day. Of course, in our current culture of instant gratification and having both parents working, we have come to a point where parents aren't willing to take the time to find a better alternative than to drug their child. Personally it sickens me. I knew this one family that put their 5 y.o. child on Ritalin. I ask you, what 5y.o. isn't hyperactive? And what kind of parent drugs their 5 y.o. kid for being a bit rambuncious?
I myself only took Ritalin a few times, and I hated the way it affected me. As such, I don't take perscription drugs (not that I don't do other drugs, but that's another topic). No, for me the simplest thing to do was go outside and and run a few laps.
Okay, now for the history of ADHD. Recent studies beleive that ADHD was a genetic defect that prooved useful for attracting mates, as the higher levels of activity exhibited by the ADHD addled individual was a sign of better health and strength.
So, if the ADHD is getting in your way, then you should seek treatment. But a lot of people take Ritalin when it isn't neccesary. And watch out for dependencies. I knew a kid who no longer needed it, but he continued to take it because he claimed he could function without it. Ritalin is a mind altering drug, and people today don't give it enough respect.
Anyway, how many posts are we gonna get reffering to Focusyns from the Simpsons?
YOU SUCK BALLS!
"Driven to Distraction" by Dr. Edward Hallowell, M.D. I went to one of his lectures to learn how to help my son, who has ADHD, and learned that -- surprise! -- I have it, too. This book is a big help! Highly recommended.
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
I was "diagnosed" with ADHD too, took Ritalin all through high school. Of course it helps you work harder, it's close to speed. Check this out: http://www.adhdfraud.com/
I've found a potential solution that doesn't involve taking all these crazy medicines. When I find that I have difficulty concentrating, I just go off and furiously masturbate like a banshee. 5 minutes later I could concentrate on a Ben Stein law lecture.
though it's got some rather questionable side-effects. I take it because most of the other medications such as Concerta (which is basically Ritalin), and Stratara simply don't work for me. I think that ADD/ADHD cases are really much more specific to the individual than most people realize. The medications are definitely something to look into though, because they can have a drastically positive effect. As for the "natural" options I've tried have had little, if any effect on me. I've found that more than anything, ADD gets in the way of accomplishing anything. So I would definitely call it a hinderance.
and have tried to wein myself off of caffeine
Does that make you a weiner?
Call me old fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating - Bender
My parents paid $600 CDN to be tested for admittance to an enriched high school program. The stupid guy made me click a stupid mouse for 15 minutes every time an X showed on the screen. He then diagnosed me with acute ADHD. I don't have ADHD. For my whole life I have been good at school, been able to sit still and concentrate on things for long periods of time, etc. Tried explaining to the guy that my arm fell asleep clicking the stupid mouse.
I also got nearly perfect on the Academy test itself.
That said, my parents ignored the diagnosis and I plugged right along with my straight 4.0 GPA. That's my experience with ADHD.
Oh ya, till grade 6 I did have trouble concentrating at school, but that because of the classroom being a riot of Ritalin-laced monsters. Went ot a private school for 7&8 and I got back on track for the rest of my learning career in public education.
Also ADHD is about a problem in regulation of attention. The ability to stop paying attention to something is just as hard for people with ADHD as paying attention.
Feminism is the radical notion that women are people.
yeah - i've found that i think so quickly, what seems like a lack of attention is my mind jumping from topic to topic and relating ideas that other might take a minute to catch up with to (you might have to explain your train-of-thought).
ADHD isn't a disorder, it's more of a type of personality, you might notice that computers (assuming you're a geek) or anything you enjoy can hold you attention with no problem. It's just the other stuff - stuff not of your choosing, may seem to bore you. In this boredom, you get "off-topic" and you begin to think about other topics.
I also agree, lots of sugar probably won't help your hyperactivity. Caffine tho, might. Since it acts as a mild-stimulant. Which is what Ritalin and Dexedrine are - stimulants. They "narrow" your focus, and allow you to concentrate.
Moderators, please refrain from spending all your points modding up every easy joke about ADHD to +5, Funny. Not only are you supporting misinformed stereotypes, you're also ignoring posts that might actually have some meaning.
I'd also ask you to overlook lengthy posts that ask "Do you really have ADHD or do you just play too many videogames?" People, lets assume, if only for this discussion, that the person asking does, in fact, have a real psychological problem, and really is helped by medication, and isn't lazy, or possessed by demons, or resistant to alien mind control, or any of the other oddball opinions that always come up.
I'm going to reply to this because I don't have ADHD, rather I have a related disorder known as social anxiety, and I took interest to your mention of serotonin.
Serotonin is a chemical that is known to calm, and SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) prevents the brain from storing serotonin (thus keeping it in circulation). I'm not sure about the chemical specifics of ritalin, but I suspect it relates to many of the other newfangled medications that are on the market. I use an SSRI to calm myself, to prevent anxiety. You may use it to calm yourself to prevent overactivity.
All psychological disorders are related, though each has the same symptoms, they have each to varying degrees. My advice to you would be to seek a second opinion, even if you are absolutely certain that this second opinion will yield the same result.
ADHD is overdiagnosed in children, but an adult is a different matter. I would advise you to continue the medication that works, and look towards alternative solutions while you're taking the medication. There is no shame in taking a pill every day, and therapeutic solutions will only strengthen your resolve to conquer your problem--even if you're forced to take a pill for the rest of your life.
Do you object to having ADHD
I object to having social anxiety as much as I object to having a thorn in my side. It's an obstacle to be overcome, and even if it can't be eliminated completely, it can be managed.
How do you find it working in groups of people, either as the only ADHD'er there, or in a group of ADHD'ers?
This is somewhat irrelevant to your problem. ADHD should affect you in virtually every aspect of life, regardless whether it's with a group of people or on your own. The key is to understand how your mind works, and to become so educated with respect to your subconscious thoughts that you can control them with exercises and manage them as they come. A relatively new therapeutic study deals with cognitive thinking, in that you can catch thoughts [that cause feelings] as they occur, and eventually eliminate them. These thoughts might cause you to become hyperactive (hence the 'H' in ADHD), and you really have to focus on your internal thoughts more than the results on the environment around you.
I doubt that this advice will help you directly, but I admire your resolve in openly announcing your mental difficulties. Watching TV, I'm sure you'll notice more and more commercials regarding mental illness and the fact that it isn't extraordinary, rather it's a common problem that affects everyone, from every walk of life. My final suggestion would be to seek therapy. There's no shame in talking to someone about this, as much as there's any shame in taking medication for it. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.
A friend of mine suggested I try one of his Rittalin pills after he was diagnosed with ADD. What happened, I ended up cleaning a bathroom for 3 hours, hell you could eat off the floor when I was done. Why is this an interesting anecdote? I could barely keep dishes clean to eat, let alone clean my bathroom. Needless to say I felt it warented research. I also ended up getting a diagnosis for Adult ADD Inatentive Subtype, in other words, I can't focus and I'm not hyperactive.
Three years later I finaly got sick and tired of the way my life was going. I could barely finish classes at school, and life just SUCKED in general. I had started and stopped treatments in the past and had mixed results. I decided to start a treatment with Adderall and stick to it. That was almost a year ago. Since then I have changed my major from CS to Medical and I have gone from a 2.0 GPA to a 3.6 with straight A's for the last two semesters.
For me treatment has worked, however there is no one treatment for everyone. I recomend you do your research, learn as much as you can about ADD. Listen to what your gut instinct is telling you, it may not be right but it probably knows the best direction for you. Lastly drug treatment is not the solution! For me it was the key that unlocked my concentration and thus made me do better in school which in turn has helped improve my mood and life outlook.
Good Luck to anyone in a similar situation.
---- Fight to protect your right to keep and arm bears! ummmm... ya I think that's right....
Recently I was diagnosed with A.A.A.D.D. -- Age Activated Attention Deficit Disorder. This is how this insidious disease manifests itself:
I decided to wash my car. As I start toward the garage, I notice that there is mail on the hall table. I decide to go through the mail before I wash the car. I lay my car keys down on the table, put the junk mail in the trashcan under the table, and notice that the trashcan is full. So I decide to put the bills back on the table and take out the trash first.
But then I think, since I'm going to be near the mailbox when I take out the trash anyway, I may as well pay the bills first. I take m y checkbook off the table, and see that there is only one check left. My extra checks are in my desk in the study, so I go to my desk where I find the can of pop that I had been drinking. I'm going to look for my checks, but first I need to push the pop aside so that I don't accidentally knock it over.?
I see that the pop is getting warm, and I decide I should put it in the refrigerator to keep it cold. As I head toward the kitchen with the pop, a vase of flowers on the counter catches my eye -- they need to be watered. I set the pop down on the counter, and I discover my reading glasses that I've been searching for all morning. I decide I better put them back on my desk, but first I'm going to water the flowers.
I set the glasses back down on the counter, fill a container with water and suddenly I spot the TV remote. Someone left it on the kitchen table. I realize that tonight when we go to watch TV, we will be looking for the remote, but nobody will remember that it's on the kitchen table, so I decide to put it back in the den where it belongs, but first I'll water the flowers. I splash some water on the flowers, but most of it spills on the floor.
So, I set the remote back down on the table, get some towels and wipe up the spill. Then I head down the hall trying to remember what I was planning to do. At the end of the day: the car isn't washed, the bills aren't paid, there is a warm can of pop sitting on the counter, the flowers aren't watered, there is still only one check in my checkbook, I can't find the remote, I can't find my glasses, and I don't remember what I did with the car keys.
Then when I try to figure out why nothing got done today, I'm really baffled because I know I was busy all day long, and I'm really tired. I realize this is a serious problem, and I'll try to get some help for it, but first I'll check my e- mail.
From Neal Boortz
If Ritalin improves the quality of your life, does it matter if ADHD is the correct diagnosis? And if Ritalin doesn't help you, why would you keep taking it, even if you do have ADHD? It doesn't work for everyone, and you still may have ADHD if it doesn't work for you.
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
A. Either (1) or (2)
(1) six (or more) of the following symptoms of INATTENTION have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:
Inattention:
(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work or other activities
(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities
(c) often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly
(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions)
(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities
(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)
(g) often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools)
(h) is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli
(i) is often forgetful in daily activities
(2) six (or more) of the following symptoms of HYPERACTIVITY-IMPULSIVITY have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:
Hyperactivity
(a) often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat
(b) often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected
(c) often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness)
(d) often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly
(e) is often "on the go" or often acts if "driven by a motor"
(f) often talks excessively
Impulsivity:
(g) often blurts out answers before questions have been completed
(h) often has difficulty awaiting turn
(i) often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games)
B. Some hyperatice-impulsive or inattentive symptoms that caused impairement were present before age 7 years.
C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g., at school [or work] and at home).
D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.
E. The symptoms do note occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorder, or a Personality Disorder)
Someone admits on Slashdot having a medical disorder that has had difficulty finding acceptance in society and all of a sudden dozens of insensitive jokes pop up on slashdot? And they're moderated up too? Would you guys laugh if Richard Stallman had scizophrenia? What about things like alcoholism or depression? Personality disorders aren't funny. They are difficult for the people who have them and making jokes about them is rude and insensitive. I am apalled by the Slashdot community's response to this.
I have ADHD.
To get some of the usual responses out of the way: Yes, kids/people get misdiagnosed all the time, but I don't care, because I wasn't. I've had to deal with this for years, and I can say that, at least for me, Ritalin has been a life-saver. I expected to not need it anymore when I became an adult, but it still gets me more focused than anything else.
I have not tried anything else, as Ritalin works fine for me, but yeah, feel free to experiment. ADHD is an incredibly inconsistant disease for me, somedays I have no difficulty at all focusing on whatever task is at hand, other times I feel like I'm my own five-year old self, with as little control over my actions as my parents had over me. So I don't think I could really give a good test run of any other substance unless I took several days off from the Ritalin, and then if it doesn't work, those are several days when I've had a much worse time concentrating at work.
As for working with others, I've never told anybody that I have ADHD and nobody has ever told me. I don't have a particularly bad time working with others, actually the usually keep me much more on track than if I'm by myself.
Lastly, do object to having ADHD? Yeah, maybe, it's an irritating and sometimes challenging disease, but by now, I really don't think I'd be who I am, for better or for worse, with out it. =)
ADHD has been seen as that "boy's disease" or "just not growing up" (but I think it's really all the posters making "wait, what was I talking about, ooh, shiny things" jokes who haven't grown up), but it's a real disease that many adults have to cope with and do cope with. Welcome to the club, Famanoran, and good luck.
[SIG] It's like putting a moose in the blender -- a recipe for disaster!
As a systems administrator, ADHD has it's perks and drawbacks. It's perks are the times when you're in a very interrupt driven role. It's easy to change focus on the drop of a hat. The drawbacks are when you're project focused. It's easy to change focus on the drop of the hat.
I took Ritalin off and on from age 7-18. I stopped taking it, because at the time I hadn't had a dosage adjustment in several years, and my doctor just kept dolling out the same "30mg twice a day" settlement, and it didn't seem to have the affect that it used to.
I've tried many things since, ephedra, caffeine, ginseng, exercise/fresh air several times per day, etc. Eventually, once I get around to choosing a health insurance plan (that's the type of research that sucks, reading through dozens of pages of information on various health insurance plans for my company figuring out what is best), I'll get back on ritalin or an alternative. From what I remember, it involved a psychiatric evaluation and some observation & discussion before choosing a dosage, followed by regular (every other month) checkups from the doctor. It was especially annoying and expensive in the state of pennsylvania, because they required a physical every time a prescription was written, so my doctor would write several months at a time, ignoring the regulation. As usual, annoying drug addicts ruin everything.
Ephedra works best. Ephedra works better than ritalin did. Unfortunately in a very, very small percentage of the population it has bad side effects.. The funny thing is, a couple of high school students went and took 5 or 6 "stackers" or "yellow jackets" (common off the shelf variety) and then went and did football practice (I used to be in football, practice was brutal) and duh, they had heart attacks... In me, it allows me to focus on less things, finish projects, meet deadlines.. The only side effect is if I don't take one "stacker" per day, and I skip a week or so, the next time I take it alters my sleep patterns and I have to use a fair amount of will power to fix them. Taking more than one per day, and I'd be likely to stay up for 3 or 4 days.
Unfortunately it's now very hard to find, so I'm looking for new alternatives. I've been taking two half hour walks per day and showering right afterwards to help clear my mind, and that seems to be helping a bit.
I'll relate one thing. Interviews suck. Having
to go over the same boring details to 4 or 5 people over and over again. The only thing worse than interviews for me are company meetings. Company meetings are the main reason I run my own consulting company, and will hopefully never work for a company I do not run again. I can't stand listening to some overpaid windbag from stanford go on and on about product scope and market analysis.
"And how can this be? For he is the
When I was first diagnosed with ADD (ADHD minus the hyperactive aspect) and put on Adderall, I was amazed to discover that it really was possible to follow the thread of an entire meeting and sit down for hours doing work that didn't absolutely fascinate me.
Adderall is a mix of four amphetamines used to combat Attention Deficit Disorder and Narcolepsy. It was originally prescribed to the obese as a hunger suppressant under a different name. I originally started on 3 doses per day of Adderall. That was problematic, however, because I would become more forgetful as it wore off, meaning that I needed to remember to take my next dose when I was at my most forgetful. I now take the extended-release version called Adderall XR. I only take it once a day, and it's helped enormously.
I've only been medicated for a couple of years now, so I've noticed a stark difference in my ability to function normally. Life before I was diagnosed was filled with frustration. I sometimes found it incredibly difficult to concentrate even on things that I enjoyed doing, or that I really wanted to do. My homework grades were terrible but my test scores tended to be quite good. Now, with a combination of medication and an intentional reduction of potential distractions, I can work steadily all day if I need to.
There are drawbacks, however. It completely obliterates my appetite. I find that if I don't make an effort to eat 3 square meals a day, I will forget to eat at all. Not being one who needs to lose weight, it caused some problems in the beginning. I won't feel hungry, but I'll get very cranky, headachy, and will find it difficult to focus when I don't eat.
I also find that I can be a little cranky in the late afternoon when I'm coming off the medication. ADD medications like Ritalin and Adderall are highly addictive, which really sucks. After taking Adderall for a couple of years now, I find that I have the attention span of a gnat on cocaine if I forget to take it.
Do I object to having ADD? Sometimes. But when channeled correctly, it's a really amazing source of creative material. It can also be quite entertaining to my friends. I'm just really glad I'm just really glad I have some control of it now.
Attention Deficit Disorder is hard for many people to understand. I've had people tell me to my face that ADD is a sham and that I'm just lazy. Fortunately, it's not a topic that comes up often.
Unfortunately, I don't know much about these alternative treatments, but I'm certainly interested in learning more.
While I was in elementary school, I knew someone that was on Ritalin for "hyperactivity." He was boring, didn't really seem interested in being friends with anyone, etc. Over the summer, his parents took him off of the medication (since he didn't have to concentrate on school), and we became good friends. Fortunately, he didn't go back on it (possibly because of this).
I have always had difficulty concentrating, and will frequently "zone out" even when listening to/watching/reading/etc. things that I find very interesting. My brain just likes to wander off in a different direction. I was prescribed some sort of medication in 8th grade, but it just made me sleepy, which certainly didn't help me pay attention, so I stopped. It doesn't stop me from understanding *nix [but I can't play guitar for hours on end].
Then again, you have to look at the individual situation. I have another friend who really does seem to need at least a little medication. Every time he goes off of it, his life gets derailed in some way. He eventually goes back on it, gets another job, starts doing pretty well, maybe tries college again, and then...
Basically, I recommend that you "correct" as little as possible. If it's not possible for you to function in society, you need help in some way, whether it be prescription medicine or something more natural. If you're just "eccentric", "hyper", etc., then I don't see that as bad. Maybe medication would let me sit and do something for hours, but I don't think the result would be as interesting.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
Can we just ASSUME, for once, that someone diagnosed with a psychological disorder actually has a psychological disorder?
I've been diagnosed as bipolar, and I am sick to fucking death of having people tell me that I don't have a problem, and that I've just been mislead by the drug industry. I'm sick of people telling me that I should stop taking my medication, because I don't need it, when in fact, I go off my goddamn rocker without it, and that I like taking it.
I know that ADHD has been notoriously overdiagnosed, but the asker isn't asking anyone to tell him whether or not he has it. He wants to know how others like him deal with the same kinds of problems.
You could talk to your doctor about atomoxetine. It's a new drug for adhd that isn't a stimulant. It's a norepinephrine uptake inhibitor that was recently approved for the treatment of ADHD. Good Luck.
My parents tooke me off Ritilan (sp) becuase I would just sit there and not do anything I was just too quiet and it spooked my mother..
In school I had trouble concentrating with any destractions including the teacher so nautrally I had lower grades though I fought like hell in high school to stay on the honor roll.
but the flipside is when something interests me I can shut everything out and pay attention it. I was great in band until I got bored and quit and I picked up my first programing language php within a relative amount of time and when I need to do something (I commonly debug others code) I can do it very effectively if not disturbed.
ADHD is basically a two edged sword and the treatments are the same you just have to take the good with the bad.
DUDE!! you are so misinformed... Please forgive the harshness, however I feel very strongly.
Think of ADD as rapid focus and a need for lots of external stimuli. People with ADD tend to be happiest when there is a lot of stuff going on around them, the more extreme cases can't even sit still in these situations. Also people with ADD tend to need a shorter feedback loop than other people. Think of a quiz in school, the feedback on the quiz might be 1 hour it might be 2 weeks. To the ADD person the timeline for feedback might be 10 seconds to one hour for activities they are doing. Video games provide this feedback very quickly. Also people with ADD tend to do best in One on One situations rahter than group situations, and in situations when a lot of stuff is going on around them.
Please next time you wish to say some blanket BS like "Well so and so can concentrate for hours on a video game, they must not have ADD," do your research!
---- Fight to protect your right to keep and arm bears! ummmm... ya I think that's right....
There is new research out dealing with ADHD and sleep:
Sleep deprivation and ADHD
Sleep deprivation effects
Sleep deprivation may be undermining teens health
Other sites from Google
What, me worry?
'interesting info', he says.
The site is run by Scientologists.
How 'informative' do you think that post is now?
This was the problem I had, the whole "in my major" thing. I was acing the tech stuff (CompSci, Chem, Math) but couldn't keep my eyes open for anything remotely liberal-arts-ish. My advice is realize you HAVE TO PASS THIS STUFF to keep your ride and get your sheep-skin, so just hunker down and do it. Easy to say.
I've found that latley I've starte to appriciate the crap they wanted to jam down my throat. I never read a single word of Mark Twain when I was 18yr old, but now I have his complete works on my Palm and read it whenever I have a spare moment, and really really enjoy it! _Conneticut Yankee in King Arthurs Court_ is just amazing. I was %100 sci-fi pre work-force, but now I really love the classic-lit stuff. Maybe we need to try to recognize this in our students and nurture it more appropriatly.
Oh! A butterfly!
M@
Krispy Cream is people
While it seems to work well for those who are truly strong ADHD sufferers, nowadays doctors have a strong tendency towards quickly diagnosing people/children and prescribing various medications. Ritalin is a favorite, and not always the best choice.
In my younger days, I had a slight tendency towards distraction. I wasn't bouncing off the walls, nor did it actually distract me from work, but I was prescribed ritalin. Rather than improving my condition, ritalin sapped my energy and left my a basketcase through about half a year of classes.
Eventually I quit the pill, but remember as a warning that anything that messes with your body chemistry should not be taken lightly, and measure side-effects against intended effects...
For an honest "ask slashdot" question from someone with ADHD, can the mods please not mod up post such as this as "funny", because they're not and they interfere with the purpose of the question. Making fun of the subject in this manner is a tired joke anyway.
Try also to not let this turn into a debate as to the acceptedness of ADHD as a diagnosis. For many of us, this is a subject that is close to heart and quite frankly, many are tired of the obvious jokes and unacceptance. ADHD is real, it's here, so please, even if you don't have it, please respect it for what it is.
As for me, I did encounter a bit of uncertianty when I informed my boss about my own ADHD. Many do not know anything about it so understanding is a constant struggle.
As for meds, I have found Aderall XR to be quite effective, but like many ADD drugs, its amphetamine status makes it a pain because of the triplicate forms and many doctors can be apprehensive about prescribing it.
There is a new drug released this year who's name escapes me, but it's a non-amphetamine drug that is much easier to deal with. Problems I have read, however, are some rare cases of folks finding they get odd violent tendencies or it can only make their ADHD symptoms worse. Just goes to show how much we truly understand this disease.
For herbal remedies, I have yet to see a well controlled series of scientific studies of any treatment that makes as significant a difference as the more generally accepted medications.
It's a fact of ADHD, If you have it, you take mphetamines, aka speed. Many respond quite well to it, so once you get over the fact that you're taking a "controlled substance", you can move on with your life and actually thrive quite well.
Is there an opposite of the disorder? I absorb massive quantities of caffeine without getting hyper, and I can code for days on a single project with just the occasional break for more caffeine or food.
On another note: I am the only person I know who has not been diagnosed with having ADD or ADHD. What percentage of those tested come up positive?
"Major League Baseball is using satellites to read your pocket organizer for more ad revenue! Only a tin foil hat will save you!", Bart Simpson on Focusin
"If I don't get me ridelin, I'll just keep on fiddlin'. I'm poppin' and sailin' man! Toot Toot!", Bart Simpson
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
I like to read the following from the Jargon File:f -the-Ha cker-Personality.html
http://www.ack.ca/jargon/html/Weaknesses-o
(some stuff removed)
1994-95's fad behavioral disease was a syndrome called Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD), supposedly characterized by (among other things) a combination of short attention span with an ability to `hyperfocus' imaginatively on interesting tasks. In 1998-1999 another syndrome that is said to overlap with many hacker traits entered popular awareness: Asperger's syndrome (AS). This disorder is also sometimes called `high-function autism', though researchers are divided on whether AS is in fact a mild form of autism or a distinct syndrome with a different etiology. AS patients exhibit mild to severe deficits in interpreting facial and body-language cues and in modeling or empathizing with others' emotions. Though some AS patients exhibit mild retardation, others compensate for their deficits with high intelligence and analytical ability, and frequently seek out technical fields where problem-solving abilities are at a premium and people skills are relatively unimportant. Both syndromes are thought to relate to abnormalities in neurotransmitter chemistry, especially the brain's processing of serotonin.
Many hackers have noticed that mainstream culture has shown a tendency to pathologize and medicalize normal variations in personality, especially those variations that make life more complicated for authority figures and conformists. Thus, hackers aware of the issue tend to be among those questioning whether ADD and AS actually exist; and if so whether they are really `diseases' rather than extremes of a normal genetic variation like having freckles or being able to taste DPT. In either case, they have a sneaking tendency to wonder if these syndromes are over-diagnosed and over-treated. After all, people in authority will always be inconvenienced by schoolchildren or workers or citizens who are prickly, intelligent individualists - thus, any social system that depends on authority relationships will tend to helpfully ostracize and therapize and drug such `abnormal' people until they are properly docile and stupid and `well-socialized'.
So hackers tend to believe they have good reason for skepticism about clinical explanations of the hacker personality. That being said, most would also concede that some hacker traits coincide with indicators for ADD and AS. It is probably true that boosters of both would find a rather higher rate of clinical ADD among hackers than the supposedly mainstream-normal 10% (AS is rarer and there are not yet good estimates of incidence as of 2000).
The problem with Ritalin is that it tends to remove a person's sense of right and wrong. ALL of the kids who were involved in these mass school shootings were on Ritalin or similar substances. Obviously, it doesn't usually affect a person to that degree, but the effect is there nonetheless.
The sad thing is that such medication often curbs great talent that could be channeled through other means.
Note that I'm not talking about any individual case (I'm sure there _are_ valid uses of Ritalin), just that, for the most part, it is being misperscribed because society wants children to "sit still and listen" when they (especially boys), have the need to roam and explore. People who do not go along with the status quo are labelled as having a disorder, when actually they are the ones who keep society living and vibrant.
Sadly, instead of channelling their talents, we are drugging them out of them.
Engineering and the Ultimate
ADHD has become an increasingly popular diagnosis, especially since it's very difficult to prove incorrect. ADHD is a relatively rare disorder, and has grown in the field to encompass both hyperativity disorder and ADD.
I was nearly diagnosed with ADD/ADHD when I was in 8th grade. The people didn't quite realize that I was bored. I could've taught my 8th grade English class, but I'm sure that if I were taken to a psychologist that I would be diagnosed with ADHD. I was near puberty. I was mad at the world. I didn't fit in because I had a rather poor self image.
Maybe you do have ADHD. I still find that I have trouble sitting still for more than an hour. I know that this isn't on the scale of ADHD, where they can't focus for more than 3 or 4 minutes. I do have thousands of things running through my mind, but I don't let myself get too distracted.
As the guy on everything2 hypothesized, I believe that people are evolving. The ones who have genius intelligence, but can't quite handle it are the ones who end up with ADHD. The ones that can handle it end up being true genius (like Einstein style.)
I have an easy time getting bored. I have an easy time getting energetic and jumping around like a hooligan. I might have good brain power, but I can only half-way handle it. Maybe God got distracted with something while writing "ADHD" into my head, therefore only giving me a semi-dose.
Anyway, the way I handle my self-induced stress is by working out. I lift weights and do cadio. I find that if my body is tired, I have an easier time getting to sleep. I have an easier time sitting still and writing my programs.
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
and the vibrance of living. It did help me focus more and be more "productive" but I wasn't terribly impressed with what I produced. A little background: I was diagnosed with ADHD "off the map" by a psychatrist at the age of 28. I have a very keen awareness of how I see/experience the world and although it is not terribly well recieved in the industrial higherarchy it beats the hell out of staring straight ahead in a daze. Over the years I have developed a lot of coping mechanisims to make it so that my way of being didn't collide with the way I should be as much as possible. Still there are times where conformity is required and conforming without medication for me is very hard. So I will spot use ritalin to get through trouble spots. I will also happen to find it a nice mixer with a couple of beers and _\|/_ ;) it's a nice trifecta cocktail. Seriously, I found using behavioral modifaction like a well organized palm pilot and a strong social support network to be an effective and preferable treatment plan for ADHD than being medicated all the time.
More than one in eight cases of ADD is misdiagnosed. Treatment with amphetamines can be very positive. I've tried Ritilin and Dexamphetamine. Of the two I find that Dexamphetamine is much more helpfull. Dexamphetamine has a longer checmical half life, and tends to last better. I take lower doses, and it lasts me through the day without a mid afternoon crash, like I used to get with Ritilin. Though it does seem that Ritilin is the treatment of choice, amongst doctors in the US. I think this is mainly a marketing push. There are many other methods of coping with my condition. I find that a combinatin of stratagys works well. Some of the things I try, which work well for me are: Diet: When I eat right, I notice a big increaces in my ability to concentrate. Foods with preservitives are not so good for me. Some people I've met are much worse, though. Thank heaven for small mercies. Exercise: More than half an hours exercise every day makes me much saner. Otherwise I tend to get a bit stir crazy. I find the more exercise I do, the better I feel, for a whole bunch of reasons. Its probibly going to be that way for the rest of my life. Anger Managment: I used to get realy angry when things didnt work out my way. Now I've taken a cognitive behavioral aproach to watching what I think, and how I act. Lot of work, but very rewarding. With ADD it is easy to overract to stimulus. Sometimes when someone is talkng to me, I feel like they are shouting. Sometimes when they are annoyed, it can feel like they are enraged. I notice the signs in myself, and learn when to take a step back. Not easy, but very efective. What no one told me, I had to go and read in a study for mysef, is the long term efect of amphetimines. While they can be extreemly helpfull, after many years of use, they can gradualy burn out the dopamine recepters in the brain. Some kids I hear of are on huge doese of Ritilin or whatever. Its a lot more work to learn stratagys to cope withoug drugs. It certanly can be overwhelming at times, I am well aware. In my experience, starting with a medium dose, and eventualy working down to a very low dose or no dose, is what worked for me. Now I only take a pill when I realy need it. Test coming up, deadline to meet, job interview. Where stress is high, and I want to perform my best.
In the maelstrom of the chaos at the center of my mind, I taste the salt of sadness as I feel my soul unwind.
"There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning"
Translation:
1. The patient is in danger of failing school because of inability to concentrate or get work done
2. Danger of being expelled from school for "hyperactive behaviors"
3. Adults - Unable to hold a job
The most important thing that I had to learn was that the drugs won't make you want to do things you don't want to do. You can divide tasks you currently fail at into three categories:
1) You can't focus and stick to it.
2) You don't really want to.
3) You aren't capable.
Before, I couldn't really tell the difference between the three. Part of that problem was that I was afraid to start things because I knew I couldn't follow through. It was all a muddle. And when things got tough, I'd give up. I couldn't tell whether that was because it really was too hard or because there was a threshhold of dedication that I just couldn't get over. Now, using the drugs, I have a lot more clarity. I know that if I'm capable of doing something and if I want to do it, it'll get done. That's a huge change for me. I also have a clearer understanding of what I really can do, so I know when something is just beyond my ability. The drugs have their side effects, but the clarity they have made possible is an unequivocally good thing. It also sticks with me when I'm not using them, which gives me some hope for a productive and drug-free future.
You have a choice: tax and spend Democrats, or borrow and spend Republicans. Choose wisely.
but I'm keen to try other things that may help.
Have you ever used Marijuana? You might find that it reduces the HD part of ADHD.
"Too many children are being labeled for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder and improperly placed on psychotropic drugs such as Ritalin and Adderall to be 'calmed down,' according to House testimony. Most child-health specialists agree that about 2% of schoolchildren 'are so pervasively overactive or inattentive that they are very difficult for anyone to manage.' But up to 17% of schoolchildren are being labeled for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, or ADHD, said Dr. William B. Carey, director of behavioral pediatrics at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia." --The Washington Times - 9 Jun 2003
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David Neeleman is the CEO of JetBlue Airways. He has now been told that he has ADD. He didnâ(TM)t take drugs. I wonder where he would be today if his parents had forced Ritalin on him. Most probably not the head of a profitable airline.
NYTimes - ADHD - Neeleman
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"They made a list of the most common symptoms of emotional discomfiture of children; those which bother teachers and parents most, and in a stroke that could not be more devoid of science or Hippocratic motive--termed them a 'disease.' Twenty five years of research, not deserving of the term 'research.,' has failed to validate ADD/ADHD as a disease. Tragically--the "epidemic" having grown from 500 thousand in 1985 to between 5 and 7 million today--this remains the state of the 'science' of ADHD."
adhdfraud.com
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
Seriously. I have ADHD and it really sucks.
A lot of easy jokes have been made here, and frankly they all suck. I make sure not to mention to anyone that I have ADHD unless they are a good friend or need to know because the "did you take your meds?" joke isn't just tired by this point, it's painful.
I take Ritalin. It helps me a lot. It's the difference between holding down a good job and being unemployed and possibly even homeless. It really is that night and day. I am trying something new that can be taken along with Ritalin that might replace it, but in my all too real experience without Ritalin my life is a disorganized mess.
I don't really have more to add, but ADHD isn't as fun as you might think. It hurts your job prospects, it hurts your social life, and it hurts any projects you try to attempt.
On the upside, ADHD often comes with the ability to hyperfocus. I sometimes work on writing music for 8 or 9 hours at a time, completely obsessed with every minor detail, even forgetting to eat. If I could turn this on and off at the drop of a hat, I would have had a 4.0 in college. Instead I fought the ADHD like crazy and got a 3.3.
Most of you probably don't realize that ADHD has a tight association with dysthymia, a mild but chronic depression that in and of itself is self-destructive. If you're not careful the two disorders will feed off each other.
I'm 26 now. The Hyperactive part of the disorder mostly means that I'm a bit eccentric and excitable, where in the past it made me a social pariah. I've got a good therapist helping me leverage what advantages ADHD gives me and minimize the downsides. I'm glad I'm confronting my ADHD head on instead of dismissing it as a myth or an excuse for parents/teachers.
I agree that it's probably overdiagnosed, but for those of us who really have it, it sucks.
.
AD[H]D often confers a number of superpowers on those who have it: incredible memory for detail, ability to hyperfocus for long periods, ambidexterousness(!), and others.
However, in adults, especially adults who were not diagnosed as children, AD[H]D often co-occurs with a pervasive (mild) clinical depression, and a tremendous dose of ego damage resulting from having been told repeatedly in myriad ways that you're "not working up to your potential". (i.e., you could be good, but instead you're being bad, and obviously it's your fault.)
Learning to live really happily as an AD[H]D person can involve accepting all kinds of help: support from family, friends, and co-workers; psychotherapy; and medications such as Ritalin to help give the brain a more balanced level attentiveness (instead of only hyperfocused or totally scattered), and antidepressant medications (SSRIs), to help ease some of the inner self-flagellation that adult AD[H]Ders can do to themselves.
But fundamentally, there's one big lesson you and everyone around you have to learn: you don't perceive or process the world quite the same way other people do, regardless of what you (or they) wish. Acknowledge that, and you've started down a good path: finding your superpowers, living with your weaknesses, and getting support from people around you.
-Mark, diagnosed at age 30
There are all sorts of tactics you can take. I laughingly call it my "Shiny Ball" syndrome and joke about it with people who work with me.
But, what I've found is that an ADHD person makes an excellent "fireman." The truth is that you can sit in a room and catch a stray noise, or a grunt indicating frustration from one of your fellow employees -- and be there to help.
Talk to your manager. If he/she is less-than-a-troll, they'll work with you to use your "gift."
As for focus, I have gotten good at marking where I am in various projects and flitting between them without having to do a lot of ramp-up. Again, it's just adapting to the different way your brain works.
Now mine might not be as severe as some. I know that I got through LOTR books in three days of intense reading--because it fascinated me. But give me a 60-page manual to read at a desk and it will take me weeks to plow through it.
When learning new languages, I tend to bring the reference manual into the john with me. Laugh if you will but amazingly, it works very well. I learned C, Flash, Java, Python, PHP, piece-by-piece (ahem) using this method.
As long as you remain productive, you're an asset to yourself and your career -- find ways to make this work for you.
You may also find that you have a better-than-average ability to "read" people. In three other people I've met who are ADHD, we all had that in common -- my (admittedly parlor) theory is that ADHD people unconsciously pick up more of body language-type cues because they're paying attention to EVERYTHING and learn to process them at an early age...
For fun, next time you're in a restaurant, see how many distinct conversations you can follow.
Another thing that drives me nuts is when people in the theater are whispering to each other. They'll be a couple of rows back and it will break any chance I have of watching the movie. Of course my companions never hear a thing.
I was daignosed with ADHD in grade school. Mom thought it better not to put me on anything. I limped through school to college. In college I choked, hardcore. The amount of study required meant I *had* to focus, and I could not for any length of time.
Once in college I took it on myself to seek help. I found then that I was ADHD though for a long time before then I thought I was. I was on several drugs at different points trying to find out which helped me focus. Wellbutrin, Ritalin were amoung them. Ritalen helped, but was undependable, it wore off too quickly, and gave erratic results.
For years I had been self medicating with coffee. I didn't know it at the time, but I knew that it made it easier to focus and calmed me down. Caffine was at one time used as a treatment, but was found to be too short lived. I found that I did better on caffine because I can sip coffee all day, I can't constantly take pills.
After years of working on this, I think I've found a solution. You MUST get a lot of excercise. I've found that that helps the most of anything. If I don't bust my ass doing something at least 4 times a week I can't think at all. Second, you need to watch what you eat. Healthy is the word, stay away from sugar, junkfood, and use caffine in moderation. A cup of coffee before and while you get down and work on something is just the thing, but don't drink it all the time. Ritalin may help, but it metabolizes too fast in my experience. Wellbutrin may help as well, but it depends on exactly how you react to it.
Ultimately, you must work with ADHD. It isn't a flaw, like someone posted earlier, its an adaptation. It can be a superb advantage if you learn how to use it. It requires a lot of patience (something you probably don't have much of if you have ADHD) and work, but eventually, you can learn to focus and use it.
Pointers:
-Eat well, low sugar, high protien, veggies are good to slow down how fast you metabolize food.
-Exercise LOTS. You'll find that you don't stay tired long and after you'll feel more focused and relaxed.
-Watch your sleep schedule. You will focus much better if you get enough sleep, avoid over sleeping, you'll feel lethargic all day.
-Use LISTS. You know you won't remember, so write it down and get into the habit of checking your notes often.
-ORGANISE! This is a huge problem for most folks with ADHD. You will have to work at it, and work to keep it up, but it will help you focus and waste less time.
I hope this helps. I've been working on this for years and just now went back to college after failing out five years ago. It's tough, but it can be done, and its very worth it when you learn to work with what you have.
Working with it is key. I tried forcing myself to do 2 hour study sessions, it doesn't work. Go ahead and let yourself work on 3 things at once. Take frequent breaks. You just have to build discipline to keep at those three things and not let them turn into 10 things.
Good luck. Its a tough road to run without drugs, but it can be a lot of fun too.
A lot of you have made valid points regarding my question, and I thank you for those. As for the trolls, you don't exist to me anyway - I'm turned you off. :)
As for my story, I've gone through 3 jobs in 3 years, all in IT. Mainly as a programmer, but now I'm going out and visiting customers and thats working out a lot better..
However, I frequently (used to) look at my screen in utter confusion as to what I should be doing...
As for trying ritalin, I researched it for weeks before I let my doctor prescribe it for me, so yeah - I reckon I've covered most of the bases... my main reason for asking slashdot is because there is little information regarding ADHD in computer/IT works - at least that google can find..
I would continue this message, but my ritalin has worn off for today and forgot where my point was going...
I have ADD (w/out hyperactivity) and found that by taking B6 along with the ritalin, I needed a smaller dose. Also, I found that cutting back on sugars helped significantly.
"In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -- Carl Sagan, Cosmos
I tried it once (as Zyban) in an attempt to quit smoking. It takes a few weeks to build up in your system. So about two weeks after I started I suddenly developed severe hives (large extremely itchy red patches all over your body) and my chest got kind of tight -- hard to breathe. I went to the emergency room for a shot of Epinephrin which worked for about a day, and then the hives were back in spades. I popped Benadryl like it was candy for the two weeks it took for the Wellbutrin to get out of my system. It was a horrible experience. They say 5% develop severe allergic reactions like I did. YMMV.
Clickety Click
[I] was placed on academic probation in under a year despite having a 3.8 in my major
3.8 in under a year? That Intro to CS class must have been really tough.
No offense intended to sufferers of ADD/ADHD, but falling asleep during spanish class, church, family reunions, etc., isn't exclusive to the disorder. Anyone can stay focused on something that he/she is interested in (sex comes to mind). Staying focused on something that you don't enjoy is called self-discipline.
There's a great article in the current issue of 'Mothering' magazine (Issue #118; May/June 2003).
If focuses on dealing with ADHD through your diet. What foods and additives to avoid, etc... The article touches on the Feingold diet for ADHD
Some other helpful articles about dealing with ADD through diet:
ADHD & Diet: How Food Affects Mood
Does ADHD Even Exist?: The Ritalin Sham
Several girlfriends have made me go to the doctor to ask for a cure. Several doctors said that if the condition does not interfere with life, then I should not worry about it. The girlfriends were not happy with the doctors, but I was off the hook for a while. Last year, a woman broke up with me for the reason: "You get bored and distracted too easily." So it does interfere with my personal life, but I never want to take mood-altering drugs.
One doctor said that the condition was probably a large factor in my success. The ability to jump from topic to topic meant I could handle the chaos of IT in the corporate world. The hyperactivity meant I could keep moving at a fast pace and accomplish more than normal people. And the other side of ADD is that sometimes I focus on one task so much that I cannot give attention to anything else, but that symptom defines the programmer "in the zone."
It definitely has a positive effect on my work life.
It definitely has a negative effect on long term relationships.
I have the choice of:
1. Being high-income and productive,
OR
2. Taking drugs to keep the relationships towards having a family.
I have chosen #1. I still hope to find a woman who wants to keep me as I am. I figure that I do not want a woman who could only live with me if I am drugged. But I almost regret the lost opportunity of having a family.
BTW, this condition is the primary reason for my sig.
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
I was diagnosed with "adult ADHD" a few years ago and tried a number of medications, including both Ritalin and a drug called Adderall, which contains dextroamphetamine ("Dexadrine") along with another isomer of the same chemical formula.
The stimulants did help me concentrate, but they also caused me to become somewhat "manic" in the sense that I got extremely overoptimistic about a business venture (an invention involving wireless, recordable toys that could talk back and forth to each other). I then spent far too much of my own money on the project, and ended up with troublesome debts.
I was never psychotic, violent, or dangerous, so maybe what I had should be called "hypomania" (a milder version) rather than "mania", but I really did go out and spend far too much money! And spending too much money is one of the hallmarks of mania.
Even though I stopped taking amphetamines several years ago, I still miss that enthusiasm and the ability to hyper-concentrate for long periods. But I would say that overall, taking those drugs was a mistake, and I would not do it again.
Just my two cents.
Sigmund
I am 24, and was diagnosed with ADHD about 9 years ago. The final diagnosis wasnt as ive read on here. It took about a year of weekly sessions to finally come to the conclusion. It was also determined that my brother, and sister were both either ADD, or ADHD (you arent both as some people on here have said they were). Sessions with my fater realized that he was probably ADD or ADHD in his youth. I didnt start taking medication right away because I didnt think I needed chemicals to be "normal". After the first few car accidents and a few speeding tickets, and barely graduating highschool (enrolled in advanced classes, teachers didnt understand why I was failing). I reviewed it all and talked to the doctor about it. He explained to me that ADD or ADHD isnt a disease, or a mental problem, but it is more of a relic from times of past. Senses and abilities that arent used in this day and age. Heightened awareness of surroundings (makes it hard to focus on tedious things), strong and very reactive mental defense mechanisms (probably why it is normally more apparent in broken homes). ADD/ADHD people tend to be very impulsive, act on instincts alone (probably why I was a very good motorcycle roadracer?). He went on to explain that its not understood, and they arent sure why some of these medications work, but the theory that I believe from my experiences is that your mind has trouble filtering out all of the senses it receives. Instead of focussing on the road, and driving, your mind hears/sees the road, the rattle in the dash, the rear-view mirror, the radio station fading out, the cell phone, the car beside you, and EVERY thing elses it receives. All at once. I dont look at it as a hinderance at all, it is one of the things that makes me ME. Intelligence is commonly associated with ADD/ADHD. As well as curiousity, awareness, spacial ability, logic thinking. I dont find any of these traits to be bad (at least in the computer world!). I do have certain special needs. I cannot be couped up in the office all day. Thats probably why the jobs that I have enjoyed the most are jobs where I work with many different people on a daily basis, and tend to be out of the office alot. I find no ill side-effects if Ritalin, I sleep well, I have a healthy appetite (man, 24, been putting on a few pounds recently :). I stopped taking it a few years back just to see what would happen. After a few months, I started getting behind on work, and totalled my car. I got back on it and havent really had a problem since. The other misconception people have about ADD/ADHD is that we are all spastic freaks. Not true, I get my bouts of hyperactivity from time to time, but im a very easy going person, nothing much really bothers me, and Im very tolerant. I still have problems getting paperwork in on time at work, and I tend to procrastinate when it comes to paying bills, and I tend to try to cut the 1.5+ hour/87 mile commute down to 1 hour or less, but I get by just fine
You sir, are a moron. You're actually stating that methamphetamines make people forget that killing is bad? Troubled students who shoot their peers have deeply rooted emotional problems that need serious attention. Ritalin is the wrong drug for these types of problems, but that in no way means it is responsible for their actions.
I can only answer some of your questions, and that only based on what I've heard and been told.
1) ADHD is fairly new. But people have always had it. Instead of being diangosed, they were often called lazy, unfocused, or hyper.
3) There are different types. I know of ADHD - Hyperactive, and ADHD Inattentive, and a combination. There appears to be different severities of ADHD, but I don't know how it can be quantified. I have "inattentive".
5) Certain brain chemicals like serotonin and dopamine and norepinephrine are suggested as being a factor. Wellbutrin, which can be used to treat both depression and ADHD, acts on reuptake of dopamine and norepinephrine. I have heard anecdotally that MRI scans of patients with ADHD show significant differences from the "norm".
6) anecdotally, as I said, I've been diagnosed with ADHD. I would say I had a great homelife as a child. My parents loved me, never abused me, fed me well, I played a lot, mom stayed home, etc. I was always well behaved, but had a terrible time focusing.
So, is ADHD real? Well, I don't know.. like I said, some would just say it's laziness or lack of focus. But here are some examples from my life that were the basis of my diagnosis.
In the 1st grade, we shared a room with the 2nd graders. I was always held in at recess because I would pay attention to the 2nd grader teacher, not my teacher. On the other hand, I was always way ahead in our math workbook (she would say do page 20, and I would already be at 40).
Mom was often worried because I would "get obsessed" over something and ignore everything else for long periods. Maybe it was dinosarus, astronomy, dungeons & dragons, a girlfriend, etc.
My whole life has been a big cycle of starting something with incredible passion and energy, and then struggling to finish. I reached "Life Scout" by 14, and just barely finished my Eagle a week before my 18th birtday, for example.
Looking at my college transcrips, you see A's, C's and F's (but few B's and no D's). A's are when I could stay focused. C's are when I didn't do half the work. I got A's on what I DID do, and I was often praised on the quality of it. F's are where the teacher wouldn't accept only half the work, or would not accept work late, or I simply didn't go to class. There are many Incompletes that never got completed.
I had a class from last summer that I managed to get an "I" in. When it finally was "finish it or get kicked out of school", I was able to somewhat focus. I finished 3 papers in 3 days, but my friends kept calling to make sure I was on task. It's like pulling teeth sometimes!
Oh, and why did I get an "I" on that class? I couldn't force myself to finish the work. I was getting to go to Europe and spent my evenings labelling Star Trek recordings I'd made from the TV (about 6 per tape, 30 tapes or so). I had this feeling like I just needed to get that done so my house-sitter wouldn't see how unorganized I was.. I guess! She doesn't even watch star trek!
It's a bear to keep my house clean - there ALWAYS has to be a mess somewhere.. I can never get it totally clean! Even in basic training, I had a drawer that was a total mess (the one we could lock). Later in the army, my roommates all (different bases) all joked that my wall-locker exploded on weekends. I would just shove all my stuff back in there during the week.
For example, right now I'm in finals week at school! I finished two presentations this week - within an hour of presenting them. I have 2 finals tomorrow and the next... but I'm here on slashdot answering your questions.
I've often not done my own homework while helping others with theirs.
It's like I'm in a constant state of "something else is always more interesting", and sure it's just a matter of will to stay focused, but I even get unfocused from the effort of staying focused.
I had ADHD, and I cured it with an hour a day of meditation -- it seriously boosted my powers of concentration. I was totally *useless* at studying, had no clue why. I just could not pay attention to anything that I was not interested, so my grades did a slow slide from a 3.3 my first semester. After 1 semester of meditating (fall of senior year), I got a 3.6 my last semester because I could finally concentrate. There were many other bonuses too. If anyone is interested, www.srf-yogananda.org is a place to start among many others.
For a quicker way, you could try biofeedback (actually neurofeedback, because you deal directly with the brain). I took a seminar in it, and it is really powerful, and many people specialize in it. Basically it teaches your brain to alter its own chemistry on demand. It is now recognized by doctors to lower the need for medication in many diseases.
There is a lot of science behind it and I was really impressed with what I found out. They have identified 5 subtypes, 2 of which are that the brainstem lets in too much/too little information to the brain. (in the first type your own thoughts distract you because there is not enough input to your brain from the senses, in the second type there is too much input from the senses, distracting you. The type I had is where the left brain is overactivated, then poops out leaving you unable to focus without massive caffeine or adrenaline. It might be worth it to check out the non-drug options, especially for the long term.
Some people actually still find ECT useful. The second I don't know about; the third *worked*, but wasn't worth the price.
I'm not saying that they aren't necessarily right, but there are generally sources of information that have *less* interest in one direction or another. People who are researchers, not authors with books to publicize or, at the same time, pharmaceutical companies with meds to sell.
And, for that matter, said companies are usually fairly up-front about side effects, because people actually care more about lack of libido on SSRIs than the chance of tardive dyskinesia on an antipsychotic.
Now, I'm firmly of the belief that Ritalin's over-prescribed, especially with children. But I also have concerns about the fact that I can walk into my doctor's office, ask for Prozac, and he'll give it to me.
But in this case? The web page is pure scare tactics.
Of the people I've known in life who happened to recreationally abuse certain pharmaceuticals? It was never Ritalin. Of the people I've known with ADHD? None of them had trouble finding work because of the label, and only a few because of symptoms.
And then they start acting as if it's some global conspiracy or something. If Ritalin is over-prescribed, it's more the fault of the parents than the NIMH. And the manufacturer? Just trying to make money. Like every other corporation in the world. You can't fault a swan for swimming. It may not be *beneficial*, but it's not 'out to get you' or anyone else.
Even the charges that can be taken seriously--like that it sacrifices creativity and spontinaeity in favor of the ability to perform rote tasks? Makes me wonder if the author has actually held a real job anytime recently. Rote tasks are a part of the real world. The ability to do them? Quite necessary. Creativity and spontinaeity are great qualities, but less good at putting food on the table.
It's just bullshit. F-U-D. Preying on people who don't know any better.
Which is not to say that biological psychiatrists don't actually help people. I myself have gotten a lot of good use out of them. But only after wasting a lot of time on blind alleys. It's taken them a long time for them to understand that people don't fit into the neat little models and categories that medicine likes to use. Only now are they beginning to understand how much empiricism there is in their art.
Now, whatever the chemical similarities between Ritalin and caffeine (and I don't think Eric Raymond is a reliable source for anything except his own pet theories) not everybody has a a similar response to these two drugs. I myself find R helpful for controlling the symptoms of ADHD, and coffee not at all. On the other hand I get a pleasant buzz from a cup of strong coffee, but no direct change of mood from Ritalin at all. (That's very atypical -- took my psychiatrist a long time to accept that I was being honest with him.) Bottom line: every body (pun intentional) is differnt. You use what works.
If you "haven't really had a problem", WTF were you on Adderal in the first place?
Same here. If I could stay up for 22 and sleep for 8 then I would have zero problems. I'm just not ready to sleep after a mere 16 hours. Typically I sleep about 3 - 4 hours per night, feel like absolute crap in the morning, drag all day, and by 8pm I feel fine and am ready to stay up until 3am again. At 3am I force myself to go to bed, although I feel fine, but as soon as I am horizontal I'm out like a light.
For me, I find I have ADHD symptoms if I am tired but not if I am well rested. It is rather dramatic actually. Those rare occasions where I get a full 8 hours of snooze make me extrordinarily productive the following day. Thats a problem with technology jobs, you never become physically tired so your sleep cycle gets all messed up. When I worked labor jobs I was so physically tired that I never had much trouble making myself sleep.
Now that we are all more or less brains in a jar in front of a computer, the 24 hour cycle is just too short.
Clickety Click
I had ADD as a kid, while my sister has ADHD to this day. I took ritalin from as young as I can remember until I was 12 (I'm 29 now, so I was on ritalin before it was 'cool'), then cylert and tofranil until I was 16, then cylert alone until I was 19. Once I hit college, I just weaned myself off of cylert over the course of three weeks (on my own, without doctors' advice..).
Once I hit sixteen, I realized I needed to start taking steps to bring things under control myself, rather than depend upon medication for the rest of my life. I started consciously working to focus my mind, admittedly no small feet. These days, I think I overcompensated, as I have the ability to, when I need to, focus solely on one task, blocking out the need to eat, smoke, and even move, in some cases. Even though heart rate is controlled through the autonomic nervous system, with a bit of focus, I can slow my heart rate down to approx 45 bpm, even able to go down to 1 beat every 2 seconds in the extreme case.
Personally, I don't know that ADD/ADHD really exist. I think it's kind of like saying that people with fair skin have problems with the sun. No kidding. Some minds are more frenetic than others, just as some folks' skin is lighter than others'. People with fair skin can spend time in the sun with either sunblock (drugs) or gradually building up a base tan and letting the melanin do its thing (mental control and focus).
Learning how to harness and control the power of that frenetic mind has probably had the single most profound effect on my life of anything I've ever done. In my career as a developer, it's been invaluable for marathon coding stretches. It's also helped professionally in that there can be many thought patterns whirling around at any given time, allowing for efficient multi-tasking. I've consistently surprised my co-workers with my ability to be deep in thought working on something, while simultaneously being able to hear conversations and chime in with cogent commentary. In my personal life, it's been useful for being able to learn things, simultaneously taking in new concepts and referring to old ones to create a mental framework for how things "work" together.
Best advice is to learn how to harness it and use it to your advantage. You may need medication while you're in that process, but once you're done, they may not be necessary anymore.
The truth about Scientology, Xenu, and you: Operation Clambake
I'm a 16 year old and I have ADHD (without the hyperactivity though). So basically stare out at the windows and day dream, or maybe I just go blank in space. Although this is a disadvantage at school, I do the best possible by sitting WAY in the front of my classrooms. I also let my teachers know my situation. Therefore when they see me going off they woulld maybe gesture to me or walkby a put a hand on my desk for a silent signal.
In school I'm one of the few people who makes the best multimedia presentations for school projects. I usually make incredibly creative webpages, bring my laptop the next day, and put it on a projector for the class to enjoy. It seemed to me that people with ADHD (or ADD), works much better when they have multimedia support, that means images, videos, audio, etc. Usually plain text gets me nowhere. I'd say that ADHD didn't effect my technical adversaries at all. In fact I think they're really creative.
I attend the San Francisco School of the Arts. I major in Piano. Piano is one of the hardest subjects to study for me. Sitting down at the same place and practicing for an hour or two daily, is not an easy thing to do because it requires so much attention and concentration. So what I do is I only practice at the first 15 minutes of each session, then go do something else, then repeat the same procedure. This way I can ensure that I'm getting the most out of each session. After 15 minutes I usaully begin to focus significantly less.
IMO, ADHD (without the hyperactivity) helped me in the arts. It has helped me develop a very passive and dreamy personality. I feel that this kind of personality plays a big role in studying the arts (Piano, in this case). ADHD has also helped me develop a creative mind for making webpages, multimedia presentations, and whatnot. Teachers and the principal have always enjoyed my web presentations, and the principal have decided that I can take over the school's website starting next year, with a few assistants.
For medicine, I have been taking both of these seperately:
*Dexedrine 10mg
*Dextroamphetamine 5mg
Initially, for the 5mg tablet, I've experienced some mood changes. I could feel the "ups" and "downs" quite significantly. When the medicine wore off I would suddenly more relaxed and in a more cheery mood. For the 10mg tablet, it made me even more sleepy at times, but it generally gave me a longer, more expanded time for focusing, at the scrafice of a direct focus (which is what the 5mg tablet does). I've talked with my doctor and since 3 months ago I've been taking the 10mg in the morning, and the 5mg afternoon, for my arts. (We have academics in the morning, and the arts during the afternoon). This has worked quite well.
But now here's the interesting part: My parents and I have decided to give a try at acupuncture. We believe that blood-flow plays a vital role in giving attention and concentration. Acupuncture can make sure the important parts of my body are well stimlated, and hopefully blood will travel through my body and into my brain more regularly.
Also I've found that doing excercise really helps the concentration. Aside from the fact that it pumps out adreneline, it puts your mind off to your physical activities for a change. When your mind is done with controlling your blood flood and so on, it's then completely ready to switch back to working anything mentally (especially something that needs sustained focus, like practicing piano, coding, etc.)
Well that's it for now. Just my two pesos.
Anthony
http://www.palmzone.net
Well, I've spent years working with children with severe and real ADHD problems, often mixed with other physical and mental handicaps.
I have only ever seen one approach result in a significant improvement in their quelity of life, and that is occupational therapy.
There is no drug out there that 'treats' ADHD, they all just mask it, which gives the brain no reason to learn its way to an improvement, the drugs are the worst enemy of an ADHD sufferer who actually wants to get better.
A seriously approached treatment program with a qualified and knowledgable occupational therapist can make a LARGE difference in even severe cases of ADHD, I've seen it - and I'm not talking about your average cases here but the type that land you up in perminent special care and are often linked to other physical and mental handicaps.
ADHD, like many brain dysfunctions, can be 'learned' out with enough work - maybe not totally, but often to a level that makes it very manageable.
I am being sincere when I say that I have much respect for everyone here. I am not suggesting that the "condition" of ADD or ADHD, OCD, RAD and all the other "diseases" and "disorders" do not exist. The circumstances that these conditions describe do obviously exist. However, I take offense to the industry that has cropped up to take advantage of people who are troubled, and promote this ideal that there is some sort of solution that more often than not, involves the medical/theraputical/pharmacological equivalent of a get-rich-quick scheme.
What we are talking about, in essence, with the exception of extreme cases where people have very serious, identifiable physical handicaps, is a burgeoning new industry which revolves around the selling of drugs to alter peoples' personalities, and usually to just make them non-uppity so they fall into line like everyone else and don't make waves.
Take RAD for instance: Reactive Attachment Disorder. A psychological "condition" where people who have come from backgrounds of trauma, abuse or abandonment have trouble getting close to others. The same thing for ADD. It's a behavioral anomoly, but it's only really an anomoly by comparison to what is considered a social norm, so it's arguable as to whether or not anyone is ultimately "afflicted" or they're merely guilty of being different from those around them.
Do these issues need to be treated? Sure. But the way in which they are being treated, especially with drugs, for most people, exacerbates the condition and makes it worse.
The end result is that society pushes people who are different into little categories in order to explain why they are disappointing, unproductive, unusual, etc. Rather than taking some time to understand a person, let's just call him ADD and pop a pill in his mouth. What kind of goddam treatment is that?
Regarding ADD and its various spin-offs, I'd bet good money you can find a solid correllation between people diagnosed with ADD and being put on medication and: 1. Crappy, self-absorbed parents who would rather give their kid a pill or send him to a psychologist than actually sit down with him and take some time to understand his issues; 2. People who grew up with a very low amount of physical activity during formative developmental periods, and 3. children who were weaned on excessive amounts of television, video games and other forms of hyperactive sensory bombardment.
Especially regarding ADD. Who the fuck isn't going to have a short attention span when they spend X hours a day watching television or playing games, which nowadays are so amazingly explosive, redundant and senationalized in their presentation of information, it's obvious the media has the capacity to desensitize people to the many non-obnoxious nuances of communication.... THIS is the source of ADD.
I read an article the other day from a psychology publication that stated that people nowadays are so bombarded with redundant soundbytes of information, it now takes 6-7 transmissions of the same advertising message to "stick" in a person's head. And every day it gets worse.
Put down the controller. Pull out the GTA cartridge, get off your ass and go out and ride your skateboard... Get physically active; lay off caffeine; make an effort to alter your normal behavior via normal means! Stop going from high speed to sedating yourself before you go to sleep. Before we had mass-obnoxious-neuron-sucking media, humans got along well and had plenty to do. Our technology is turning newer generations into epileptic zombies.
Our brains are incredibly powerful instruments. They get used to things; chemicals we put in our bodies; stimuli we are exposed to. If you sit there for hours a day being bombarded with little soundbytes, then unless your boss is wearing a flat panel LCD screen around his neck with the NASDAQ scrolling off it, and flailing dramatically as he talks, you're probably somewhat board with the dullness of the interaction.
Who's fault is that? The
What is it with idiots like you, and why do so many other idiots feel the need to mod you up? Are you driven by some compulsion to denigrate the parenting skills of others?
The Washington Times (owned by the founder of the Unification Church) and ADHDFraud are hardly unbiased sources, and for every David Neeleman you quote, psychiatrists can tell you of several hundred anonymous failures of whom you are unaware, whose biggest failing in life was never to have had the chance to receive the sort of treatment that is now widely available.
There's a certain delusion out there that seems to be widespread, which goes like this: ADHD is treated with drugs, drugs are "unnatural" and therefore bad, so any parent whose child is receiving treatment for ADHD is somehow negligent. But this is simply rubbish, as many "natural" things are extremely bad, while some "unnatural" things are very helpful. Faeces is "natural", but would you want some near you? Smallpox is natural, as is Polio, or skin cancer for that matter. On the other hand, Aspirin and soap are man-made and "unnatural", but you wouldn't willingly give either up, would you?
Parents with children who have ADHD already have enough to handle, without having busybodies and know-it-alls like you lecturing them for their supposed failings. Do you suppose that any sane parent would willingly see his or her child diagnosed with such an affliction and subjected to medication? What do you know of what it must be like to live with the consequences of such a problem? You wouldn't presume to tell the parents of an autistic or retarded child to just "get over it", but you feel yourself qualified to do the same with ADHD? Why is that? Is it because ADHD is actually treatable, while those afflictions aren't?
Thom Hartmann ("ADD: A Different Perception.") doesn't believe that the ADD condition is a disability.
He believes there are two kinds of people, Hunters and Farmers. Hunters have to scan the horizon, taking in all the inputs in order to find game. Farmers plod ahead, focused on plowing their current row.
http://www.thomhartmann.com/hunterfarmer.shtml
He found a high incidence of ADD in some natives in Canada (Inuit?), a tribe that gets most of their food by hunting.
The problem with today's education system, is that we're trying to force Hunters to be Farmers. Ritalin, an amphetamine, calms Hunters down.
But there are many successful Hunters that don't need to conform to the Farmer world. So, the Hunter should find a career that utilizes his traits (as noted in the above URL), and he will be successful and happy.
My son was constantly getting kicked out of daycares for being too aggressive, and when his kindergarden teacher was totally exasperated because he would never sit down, we had him diagnosed. Giving him drugs was the last thing we wanted to do, but the alternative was major damage to his self-esteem because he couldn't control himself and felt like a failure. Too much Ritalin will make a kid into a zombie, I didn't like that. But just the right amount allowed him to control himself and he was much happier.
Now that he's in high school, he quit taking those drugs. Earlier he had switched to Adderol, but it affected his heart. Now he's trying to deal with being a Hunter. It's very challenging, he's smart and scores high but gets very low grades because homework doesn't get done.
I know he'll be successful in whatever he decides to do. I don't consider grades to be an indicator of his future success.
So if you want to try meds to help you get along better in life, work with the doctor on them, but remember that you're in charge, and if that's not how your doctor wants to work, get another doctor. If Ritalin isn't doing it for you, and something else might, you and your doctor can experiment. (And of course that's for most other kinds of medicine besides ADHD as well.) Maybe Wellbutrin works for you (some people absolutely hate it!), maybe Dexedrine or other traditional amphetamines do (my niece's doctor had her on Dex in high school), maybe caffeine and/or exercise breaks work better. (Remember how schools dealt with energetic kids before Ritalin? Recess twice a day plus gym class, and sometimes actually paying individual attention to the kids...)
The big caveat with a lot of these drugs is that they are messing with your head, and everybody's reaction is somewhat different. If you find yourself getting wacked out or strung out, it's time to get attention quickly, because taking mind-altering drugs that aren't a good match for you can really mess you up, and the reason you're taking them is to help you cope better, not worse. Lots of people I know do anti-depressants, and some do manic-depressive drugs, and sometimes they find that after a while life just sucks, or that it doesn't suck badly but it just isn't any fun either, or that everything's fine and normal most of the time with occasional interruptions of suicidal depression or psychotic anger, which is not something you want to leave alone...
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Two words: Biofeedback Therapy. Allopathic Medicine has been the hard rule in the states for a long time, but the gap has been closing in the recent decades.
The kind of biofeedback therapy i'm thinking of is the kind where a computer accepts input from a crown of electrodes that measure the electromagnetic fields in the brain, interpereting the data in such a way as to allow it to use the input as the inputs for game-like tasks that train you to actually correct problems like bipolar disorder and ADHD not by adding chemicals to the stews in our brains, but rather approaching it from a cognative angle, perhaps analogous to exersizing a muscle.
These same tools were developed to study the effect of yogic meditation on the brain, and studies that used this technology in conjunction with yoga training found that similar mindstates could be acheived in a fraction of the time with the neural feedback provided by a computer (that is, giving you visual and auditory feedback of yoru current brain state, allowing you to consciously change it).
This may sound very blue-sky, but my younger sister has been undergoing biofeedback therapy administered by a holistic doctor for a condition that hasn't even been completely diagnosed by several traditional psychologists, ideas ranging from bipolar disorder, manic depressive, ADHD, they haven't really decided yet. Since she started the therapy, however, she's much improved.
To help further clarify what i'm talking about and perhaps provide further information for the interested, one computer program that she used in therapy displayed three rocket ships on the screen. She was told that the left-hand rocket represented something like being bored and daydreamy, and the right-hand rocket represented something like hyperactivity and excitement, with the middle rocket ship representing Focus. The computer program is calibrated much like a lie-detector test, and the computer will reward a shift in her brain state towards Focused Attention with the graphical representation of the middle rocket ship rising, with similar reactions in the other two ships when slips into the other two brain states are detected by the electrodes on her head.
She can play pacman without touching a physical controller, after calibrating the software correctly. Her current exersizes with the gear, i beleive, are simply transcendental meditation rouines aided by the biofeedback software. I'm pretty sure i saw a getup like this pilot a flight sim (without a controller) back in college. This is a legitimate field of study, folks.
The hardware and software (i dont know if its exactly what my sister uses, but its damn close) can be found at www.brainfingers.com, and even includes a midi-mapper interface for the brainwave interpreter (as well as some games and i think a development kit)!
Before I get any replies of this nature, I'm not entirely in the loop with what my sister's current scholastic/health situation is, but I -do- know that my mother isn't disregarding or ignoring the help of traditional psychologists or allopathic doctors, but from what i can tell, has just sought out options for treatment that don't involve drugging her up (not that i'm opposed to recreational drugging, just habitual drugging).
I, for one, equate the modern condition of psychopharmacy to be in the same state as surgery in the dark ages. I have several examples of how this is so and why, but i think this post has gone on quite long enough anyway.
I rather agree. Frankly, at my tech support job the only thing I can concentrate on is the job itself. Come on, fifteen minutes of attention at a time is the perfect ADD job. =)
...
I failed as a programmer not due to knowledge, but because I could not hold a coherent programming session, even without distractions. I went as far as copying the code locally and turning my network switch off. I just turned it on later because I was so bored. I knew I could do it, I just didn't want to. I wanted to do something engaging.
I've fought for ten minutes to get this far into the article with my copy of Gran Turismo staring me in the face across the room. Bah, fight on
So I recently switched to the overnight shift. This requires actual work since there are no calls (more money, less work, whee!) and it's the actual work that I fail to do. Actual work being: write technical documents, develop call flow charts, test software, etc. I can't pay attention.
So, for ADD folks, it's not being forced to work, it's being given one large task and then being told "have at it!" and then leaving that person alone. Not going to work. Lots of smaller tasks. Lists. Outlines. Flow charts. Whiteboards, whiteboards, whiteboards!
Variety is the ambrosia of ADD workers. I can do anything you want, just break it up for me and give me random pieces.
Why dont we name it BPS, every person with so called ADHD if you ask them why they dont pay attention to their task or job, they will tell you its because their task or job is borinng, its not exciting, etc.
I have not met one person who has REAL ADHD, meaning a person who cant even focus on doing what they like to do.
People with ADHD somehow manage to spend hours watching cartoons, playing video games, hacking on the internet, coming to sites like slashdot, so on and so forth.
These people however cant focus on their job, their school work, you know, the more boring aspects of life.
Theres two solutions, learn that life isnt all fun and games and that the majority of a persons life is just plain boring, and accept it. OR you can take pills, hide behind the ADHD, label yourself as inferior to "Normal" people, and try to get special benefits and privileges.
Now, if I had a job where I had to do Algebra and Calculus problems, suddenly I'd have ADHD as well, I'd fall asleep, or sooner look at butterflies before I could do that for 12 hours a day.
However, give me a job where I get to play PC games all day, or watch TV all day, suddenly I'm alert, and awake with no problem.
So go figure people, if you have ADHD, its not new, people have been lazy for centuries, people have had to do boring things for centuries, and thats part of life, adapt.
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The problem with the amphetamines is that being a schedule II drug it is had to find the doctor who is not hesitant at prescribing such, also you have at the start have a doctor appointment to have it refilled, after such you can probably get the doc just to write it where you can stop by and pick it up. Adderall - XR is adderall's time release based medication which can be negated by the crushing or chewing of capsules.
It would be my preference to go with Adderall-XR as doctors see it as a less abuse able substance, and I've found it to be the best in increasing concentration and productivity, in a side note it offers a perk in euphoria, for those in a down mood and Iâ(TM)ve found Ritalin in different accounts to be "rough" on the system
For fun from the prescribing PDF on Adderall Alkalinizing agentsâ"Gastrointestinal alkalinizing agents (sodium bicarbonate, etc.) increase absorption of Amphetamines. Co-administration of ADDERALL XRâ and gastrointestinal alkalinizing agents, such as antacids, should be avoided. Urinary alkalinizing agents (acetazolamide, some thiazides) increase the concentration of the non-ionized species of the amphetamine molecule, thereby decreasing urinary excretion. Both groups of agents increase blood levels and therefore potentiate the actions of amphetamines. TIME (HOURS)
Also in the view of amphetamines it is nothing like those found on the street and sadly so as the meth found will undoubtedly bring you up, it seem to lack the focus of the combination of the amphetamines offered by Adderall. For those looking to the street for their fix Iâ(TM)d urge you to give up the expensive and non productive habit, Sleepless nights and worn out bodies, and talk yourself into some disease.
Ritalin is the most popular. It is used mostly for treating children. Its generic form is methylphenidate or MPH. Studies have shown that MPH is up to 30% less effective than the brand name drug, Ritalin. It can cause tics in children. Those who take Ritalin do not develop tics. Ritalin begins to work within 20 minutes after you take it, and lasts up to 4 hours. An extended-release form of Ritalin, Ritalin SR, has been developed, but how long the drug lasts still varies among individuals. Class action lawsuits against the manufacturer of Ritalin, Novartis, have been dismissed in Texas and California. In both cases, the judges found that the plaintiffs had not shown sufficient evidence that Novartis conspired with psychiatrists to "overprescribe" Ritalin.
Dexedrine is second most common to Ritalin in use for treating ADD. It is used mostly for treating adolescents and adults. The generic form of Dexedrine, dextroamphetamine sulfate, is considered inferior to the name brand, and not as long-lasting. Dexedrine begins to work 30 minutes after you take it, and lasts about an hour longer than Ritalin. Dexedrine is listed in the PDR (Physician's Desk Reference) under "diet control" drugs; thus your insurance company may not cover it for treating ADD.
Cylert is the third most common stimulant for treating ADD. The generic name of Cylert is pemoline, but no generic drug is available. Cylert begins to work an hour after you take it, and you must take the medication for 1-2 weeks before you feel the full therapeutic effect. You should not skip doses, or go off Cylert "cold turkey". Dosages are must be gradually increased and decreased by your doctor. Cylert is more expensive than Ritalin or Dexedrine, and has a higher incidence of side-effects, such as insomnia and appetite suppression. There is also a possibility of liver damage.
Adderall, formerly Obetrol, is a newer stimulant, approved by the FDA in 1996. There is no generic. Adderall is a combination of Dextroamphetamine and Amphetamine; its
Sure, I'll bite, why not?
I can't read more than two pages of a book, even an engaging one, at a time.
I can't write (I love to write) more than a scene at a time.
I can't watch a whole movie in one sitting.
I can't read long web pages without just drifting off onto another page.
I can't listen to someone talk for more than one minute.
I can't drive long distances without almost getting myself killed because I zone off.
I can't organize anything in my mind. Nothing. When I had to put furniture in my home people wondered why I had the TV in the dining room. Truth it, that's the only place it fit the way I arranged things. Five minutes later my wife had it arranged properly. Five minutes.
I have to have to-do lists out the yang to remember the basics of everyday life.
I run out of gas because I forget to look at the guage until it's too late.
I like the fact I have to go to work, and I do it well. It's normal life I have problems with. Things like, well, reading a book. Fine, you don't have to live this life. I do. The core fault of prejudice is assuming too much. You're assuming that because you can't understand not being able to control what you are interested in, that the disorder cannot exist. That's a fallacy.
ADHD is not a disease in my opinion, its just people refusing to do things they arent interested in.
;)
While that may be true, opinions count for jack shit in science. You ought to look up the statistics related and try to find bias and other problems. See how the numbers speak to your opinion. Also actually find out the science behind the drug.
And if you indeed find that Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder is just an attribute typical of lazy people, pass me some pills.
I felt a personal need to reply to this posting, as it mentions many things I have tweaked within the last six months. Throughout my life, most of my symptoms persisted of bouts of hyperactivity per day including super-human concentration, followed by huge crashes and lapses of concentration, and the complete ability to think, with extreme anxiety thrown into the equation. Just within the last year have I fully noticed the mood swings, and how low I could get in the winter months, being in Canada around Toronto area -- similar in geographic location to Detroit and Buffalo.
1998 - added the minor things, like multi-vitamin, extra B vitamins, vitamin C, vitamin E, ginkgo biloba, this was about 4 years ago, and these additions just barely helped me cope. Sleep was still a great issue, with it normally taking two hours to go to sleep at night
1999 - added melatonin to the mix, nightly took 3mg, switched jobs, quit working at a systems integrator (tech work, systems and network support on the road) to join a chain of long-term care homes as their regional technical support
Fall 2001 - started seeing a "naturopath", drastically changed diet, followed "Blood Type Diet", recommended from the book "Eat Right for Your Type", amazing results, super high energy (probably a manic episode), but still the anxiety and sleeping issues persisted, added Alpha Lipoic Acid to assist the liver and as a potent antioxidant
Winter 2001 - added 5-HTP, fairly high doses, around 500mg per day
Spring 2002 - cut down on the 5-HTP, limited it to 200mg per day, added Piracetam, thinking clearer than ever
March 2002 - went to a corporate conference, ate all of those sweets and stuff that they give you that weren't on my diet, experienced the worst brain fog in my life, saw my chiropractor the next day for an adjustment, got in a conversation about feeling "fogged out", he suggested CLA, amazing results, eliminated the fog!
Summer 2002 - cut down 5-HTP to 150mg per day, added L-Tyrosine to the mix, it gave me more of my personality back, strongly recommended over stimulants, as it helps long-term even after cessation of usage
Fall 2002 - blood type diet slips really hard, the 5 pints a day are getting in the way of it. . . at this point, not taking any 5-HTP or melatonin, flying really high, going out all of the time, getting 4 - 6 hours sleep per night, have never thought clearer in my life. Started further extensive reading on 5-HTP, Tyrosine, mood disorders, ADD / ADHD, bipolar, etc., had inklings I was cyclothymic, a mild version of bipolar disorder
December 2002 - had been going downhill for the last bit of November, honestly thought there was a more serious problem, anxiety flared up again, saw a doctor, started on Paxil at 10mg per day, zapped all of the life out of me, dropped it down to 5mg per day, ceased taking 5-HTP due to concerns of potential serotinin syndrome or overload with SSRI
Christmas 2002 - crashed out completely, nasty family Christmas sucked all of the life out of me, I had been going downhill for the month of December
Mid January 2003 - Paxil was not performing for the depression, I had since stopped taking anything to change mood, such as Tyrosine, 5-HTP, started on 750mg per day of Depakote/Epival, took a real edge off, minimized long-term mood swings and mood / energy level changes in the day
February 2003 - the first doctor didn't agree I should be on Paxil, as it didn't address the attention symptoms, so he cut it out, and added Effexor SR in it's place, an SSNRI (Selective Serotonin Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor) at 37.5 per day for a week, and then 75mg for three weeks
Late February 2003 - feeling so flatlined it's not even funny, no desire for anything remotely social, have been at home now for two weeks straight not moving off the couch, getting up only when desperately needed for work, not returning any phone messages, voice mail box full!
March 2003 - recontinued the Paxil at 5mg, much more personality back, sold my house, moved back in with my parents (lovely...
Since I never even take aspirin and already had to live with AHDH for 29 years before I even realized there was a name for my behavior and had arranged with a more or less fitting lifestyle, I had/have strong resentments against taking any drugs. To handle some of the problems I use some of the following tricks:
Since I started being self-employed (again) I try to simulate the office.
memomo: free web based language trainer DE-EN-ES-FR-IT
/If you can find one person with it who actually thought school was fun but couldnt concentrate in class, well then I'll believe you. /
Me. I've just been diagnosed with ADHD, and I loved school. Hell, I loved school so much I did pretty well, and ended up at MIT...and before you say I liked high school with ADHD because I managed to do really well (unlike most high school students with ADHD) then I'd point out I'm having a ridiculously hard time with MIT...but I still love it there.
So there. It's not a "lazy gene", nor necessarily even a disability. It's just a different way of absorbing information.
-amysarah
Its unfortunate that I have posted so late to this thread as hardly anyone will read this, but alas...
I was "diagnosed" with ADD when I was 8 years old. The doctor prescribed methylphenidate (brand name: Ritalin) as the solution to the problem. My parents felt that the drug would increase my concentration and help me do better in school. The following school year, I was placed in a class with a teacher who actually gave a damn about whether or not we were learning and cared about the children. I began receiving good marks in school and my parents thought the drugs were helping.
The following year, I was placed in a class with a teacher who probably couldn't give a damn about anything except a paycheck. I dreaded school and did very poorly. I took the medicine for the next 2 years before I was old/smart enough to read about what I was actually taking. I decided to quit taking the Ritalin and found that I did excellent in courses where I cared about what I was learning.
Looking back now, I can see that amphetamines are by no means a solution to any "attention deficit disorder". I am not a doctor, but I would call attention deficit disorder the typical boredom that all of us feel from repetitive tasks that don't stimulate our minds. My parents debated getting my younger brother "tested" for ADD/ADHD when he was doing poorly in school. I recommended that they reconsider giving him ANY kind of drug to change his behavior. I see hypocrisy in the quest for a drug-free America while drugs are being prescribed to fix the weird social quirks we all have. What makes one drug different from another, besides some legal distinction? I digress.
The long and the sort of it is that I would recommend everyone who is considering taking Ritalin or any similar drug to fully research the effects of it, just as you would any other substance you would ingest.
I see my shadow changing, stretching up and over me...
if you are doing so well in school, and you can concentrate well enough to get into MIT, please tell me why you feel you have ADHD? You concentrate better than the average person if you manage to do all the crazy math stuff they do at MIT, I'm going to tell you congrats because I myself cant handle the math stuff.
I agree its a different way of thinking, I'm just saying people shouldnt think of themselves as disabled, or flawed because thats the way its presented. People with ADHD have something wrong with them, or people with ADHD arent normal, when its not true.
People with ADHD are normal in every way, the only difference is, people with ADHD prefer to multitask and get bored focusing on one thing for too long.
This can be used to a persons advantage if they enjoy what they are doing, or it can cause them to never really do something quite right if they hate what they are doing.
You loved school, you did well and ended up in MIT.
Point is ADHD isnt a learning disability as people keep claiming, and I dont really think its some kinda chemical error, its more of a personality trait.
Dont tae the lazy gene thing literally, I'm just proving a point that ADHD is not new, people have been like this for centuries and in the past the label they were given was that they were lazy.
One thing I never hear people consider is that ADHD could be an effect of a higher than average intelligence.
Lets suppose someone has a really high IQ, and their brain is simply going at a pace thats too fast for current methods of teaching to actually compensate, the results could be ADHD.
Consider the fact that "gifted" kids are given that label based on the fact that school is so easy to them that they dont concentrate on it, how is this any different than ADHD.
If something isnt challenging why should a person remain insterested in it for longer than 2 seconds?
I'd like your opinion of what ADHD actually is, the brain disorder crap to me is just that, crap.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I started to see a psychaitrist last summer because of the exact situation that you are claiming doesn't happen- an inability to focus on the things that I am usually very good at and like to do. Initially my doctor and I suspected depression or anxiety disorder. It was only after a few months that she recognized and started treating me for ADD that I started to feel any improvement- and it came fast.
Not everyone with ADD appears to be lazy. I watch very little TV, I have no video games installed on my computer. Instead I spend long hours working, because I have a job in R&D at a small speaker company that provides me with the opportunity to do things that I would find fun anyway. It's a bitch, however, when for no apparent reason concentration just slips away and you have no control over the distractions around you.
Some people have asked how to address this with their employers. I was lucky- my boss is the owner of the company, and I have found ways to make myself to valuable to lose in spite of my quirks. I had no problem telling my boss- it even helped him to understand how to help me to be more productive. Other people in my company knew that I was having some problems, but nobody ever doubted my work ethic. When I told people in my company that that I had ADD nobody was surprised- they saw it as being a sensible explanation for my well known oddities.
I guess that my point, if there is one, would be that not everyone with a diagnosis of ADD uses it as an excuse for their own laziness. That certainly does happen, and many people are misdiagnosed giving the whole idea of ADD a bad rap. However, for many people, (especially those who first get diagnosed later in life) the diagnosis of ADD is a godsend, providing a way to recognize those nagging life problems and a way to learn how to constructively deal with them
That is the point in time when you call up your doctor and bitch something awful.
I feel much MORE sharp with my meds, thank you so very much.
You won't believe how much easier it is to do math problems when I am able to remember what the fuck I am supposed to be sitting down and doing
For the record, ritalin does seem to generally suck, but that doesn't mean ADHD doesn't exist.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
A little while ago a fellow named "MichaelCrawford" posted a three part article on Kuro5hin describing his experiences with Schizoaffective Disorder. Some of the symptoms he desribed and some of the lengthes he went to treat them were similer to yours. Anyway here's that article. I hope you find that helpful.
"The moment "pride" is lost, "freedom" is also lost." - Ramza.
"Drugs dont truely cure anything, they hide problems from people who refuse to understand themselves."
Tell that to an asthmatic who's just about to die because they can't find their Ventolin inhaler.
You stupid fucking twat.
That was classic intercourse!
Theres no scientific proof that ADHD even exists. This is all experienced based. People with ADHD reporting to so called experts, experts watching people with ADHD and conducting studies and tests.
Theres no true fact proof that ADHD is a physical disease. Its not even proven to be a disorder even though its treated like one.
Look, Anger could be considred a disorder, a person whos angry could be angry because of physical reasons, social reasons, or the enviornment, but if I were to declare Anger as a learning disability, and say "Well student X is always angry, this student cant learn, this student needs medication, this student needs to be studied"
This does not solve the persons problem. Please tell me why a person with a short temper is considered "normal" however someone with ADHD has something wrong with them.
Also please explain to me why people who have short tempers just need to take anger management classes, while a person with ADHD must go on all these meds?
Its the SAME kinda problem, I consider ADHD a personality trait. Just like short temper is a personality trait, and manic depression is a personality trait.
Pills can only hide a persons natural traits, it cannot change them. Without pills these people wont know what to do with themselves, I'm not saying ADHD doesnt exist, it does, I'm saying its treated like its some kinda disease that MUST be treated with drugs as the first option when most people in my opinion can learn to manage without drugs.
Now I will back up my claims with proof.
Here is how Ritalin works
"Using a technique called positron emission tomography, or PET, researchers at Brookhaven's Center for Imaging and Neurosciences studied dopamine levels in 11 male subjects. In two sessions, the volunteers were each given a dose of Ritalin, calculated using their body weight to correspond to the doses given to children with ADHD, or a placebo. While their brains were scanned to record dopamine levels, the subjects were asked to rate their feeling of restlessness and "high." Meanwhile, physicians monitored each subject's blood pressure and heart rate.
The results showed that brain dopamine levels increased significantly approximately 60 minutes following ingestion of the drug as compared to the placebo.
"We now know that by increasing the levels of extracellular dopamine, you can activate these motivational circuits and make the tasks that children are performing seem much more exciting," said Volkow. "By raising that level of interest, you can significantly increase the ability of the child to focus on the task."
Volkow added that Ritalin also works to suppress "background" firing of neurons not associated with task performance, allowing the brain to transmit a clearer signal. "Random activation of other cells can distract you, and children with ADHD are easily distracted," she said. "Ritalin suppresses that background firing and accentuates the specific activation, basically increasing the signal-to-noise ratio and increasing a child's ability to focus."
Source Source URL
Ritalin works by slowing the brain function down. How do you figure your brain is sharper by doing this? This is equal to taking a 64bit CPU, and running 32bit software in an attempt to filter out "bad" data which you consider "junk" or not u seful to keep the CPU more focused on a single task of say crunching random numbers.
Honestly while this can work, isnt it better to learn to fully use what you have?
Adderall works in the same way, however its a mixture of a few drugs. I am researching it as we speak but so far it seems to be in the same league as Ritalin.
But ok, lets assume you are right, and these drugs are completely safe, harmless with no side effects, lets say these drugs help make the mind sharp and help people concentrate, if this is true shouldnt they be marketed over the counter like anti depression, pain medication, and others?
Think about this.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
There is a beautiful course that certainly has HELPED and/or cured alot of people suffering from various mental illnesses, ranging from depression, autism, ADHD to criminality and suicidal tendencies. It is called the Art of Living course, which features a unique breathing-technique called the Sudarshan Kriya. It has been researched and tested in medical studies conducted in India, the findings proving that it actually helps people.
Follow the link in my sig if you're interested. Or click on this one to read about the Art of Living course: http://www.artofliving.org/c-basic.html
Here is a link to interesting summaries of medical research-papers:
http://www.artofliving.org/apex/research.htm
The course will also help any individual wanting help. The way we live in the world today, with stressful situations and a fast-paced lifestyle, it is a course for everybody who wants to catch up with their breath and calm down. It is simple and perfectly safe, yet very profound, effective and powerful. It is a course anybody can follow and benefit from.
Art of Living is a global international organisation. You may locate the nearest course-location to you in this link: http://www.artofliving.org/contacts.asp. Even if you have to travel a bit to reach the location, the course is definately worth it. It is a course for life, on how to live life in joy, peace and harmony.
Personally, this course has helped me tremendously and is continuing to do so (I practice the techniques taught at the course daily). I personally know many other people from every corner of the world, it has also helped them in many different ways. I will recommend it to everybody, any day.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
First, I want to complement you on a being somewhat sensitive on the subject. You have legitimate questions, and you phrased them farily well, and unlike a lot of people on slashdot didn't just get flippant about it.
1. Did ADHD exist 100 years ago? Did people care 100 years ago?
Yes, most likely. A lot were called lazy or dreamers. Some managed to do great things, others ended up the town drunk.
2. What percentage of people are diagnosed with ADHD?
I don't know exactly, but more than actually have it. It is very real, but most likely overdiagnosed. It also however correlates highly with various problems such as stressful birth, and chemical abuse by the mother, which may be on the rise. As an aside, even when a woman stops drugs or drinking when she finds out she is pregnant, the damage is often already done, particular with such things as fetal alcohol syndrome.
3. Is there different levels of ADHD? Different advancements? Different Types?
Yes, which leads me to believe that at least some are completely different disorders, with different causes. Remember psychology isn't particularly old. When formal medicine was as old as psychology is now, humors were thought to be important. As a field it is still in it's infancy. In a thousand years, people will look back at what we now believe about psychology and wonder how we could have possibly thought that.
4. Would you say ADHD is over-diagnosed? In other words, I've met a number of people considered ADHD that I would consider perfectly normal.
See question 2, but you also learn coping skills. These skills work for a limited time (such as around friends, but can cause difficulty on people you are around more often. It's pretty easy to keep up a facade for a few hours, even without medication, but all the time is hard. Keep in mind too that they may have been medicated.
5. Is ADHD chemical or psychological? Both? Is there a difference?
6. Don't take this wrong, but I admit I've never met ADHD from what I would consider good parents (i.e., teach their children how to work hard and focus long); so the question, how related is ADHD to broken homes, absent parenting, stifled creativity, abuse, general over-disciplen, or the so called spoiled brat situation?
I'll take these two things together. There are people who have a verifiable chemical imbalence in the brain. This chemical imbalance produces symptoms of ADD. There are also spoiled brats. Some of these spoiled brats have symptoms of ADD. Since psychology studies behaivor and then determines a diagnosis, it can be difficult to tell them apart. It is roughly equivilant to listening to a description of heart pain and making a diagnosis of a particular heart condition. Unfortunatly, that's about the best that can be done right now. As I've said before, psychology is a field of scinece it is only around 100 years old.
7. I have heard before ADHD is related to stress and/or a lack of exercise on the part of the mother during pregnancy. Has either of these been in a study? Confirmed?
There have been a lot of studies done, and ADD correlates with stress on the mother, lack of exercise, too much exercise, drug use, alcohol use, and a whole lot of other things. The data is rather contradictory, and none of the correlations are particularly strong, but they are present.
There are also correlations to the diet of the mother during pregnancy, the child's diet, various diseases at a young age, as well as several other thing I can't remember and don't feel like looking up.
I tend to feel that ADD and most other psychological disorders are actually several diverse problems that merely present similarly. Until technology advances further than it has, it is hard to know. Certian types of severe indigestion feel exactly like a heart attack for example.
I'm not a rabid anti-psycholgist. My psyciatrist saved my life. I'm forever grateful to him and his profession, but I also recognize that it is a young science, and they are flailing around in the dark a lot. Still, I think they help more than they hurt.
There is a civil war coming in the United States. Remember which side has most of the guns
Seriously. I haven't been diagnozed, but life really sucks.
I've had massive problems trying to concentrate on things I didn't find interesting (which included all the school subjects), I'm sometimes bad-tempered and can't handle all social situations. Sometimes I also "hyperfocus", although for only a couple of hours. I also find it difficult to sleep at decent times, and I've very seldom slept (well) enough.
I really hurt my job prospects, my social life and the projects I attempt. Heck, I've been a complete failure in most of my projects, and projects initiated by others.
It's possible that I might get diagnozed with something like this ADD (I have Advanced Dungeons and Dragons!), or the Asperger syndrome, but whattheheck. Life is difficult for all the healthy guys too. At least life is difficult for all somewhat intelligent and (therefore) critical types.
What's this talk about the college grades? Why do they matter so much?
All in all, what works with me is NOT DOING THINGS I don't find interesting. Luckily, now that I'm 21, my parents won't make me do things and I've already had a couple of years to learn to live with myself. Sure, sometimes life still sucks.
Another addition; sure, some of you might have no alternatives to medication in your current state, but addictive medication will get you hooked. And other "reasons" for ADHD might be the twisted society, your parents or whatever. Clearly, everybody has problems with growing up and some need (professional) therapy, and some even need medication to get the therapy through, but, maybe there's such a thing as personality anyway and we shouldn't fight it with medicine unless its totally intolerable.
I exhibits most of the diagnostic indicators of ADHD and/or Autism, but I've never been 'diagnosed' and firmly reject the premise these are a disability or disease. I am poor at sport and empathic stuff, I'm constantly told I lack focus and concentration yet I know I am quite capable of focusing and concentration on something I find interesting and challenging for much longer than 'normal' people.
The real question should what is 'normal' and why should everybody be 'normal'. When any ability, attribute or skill of people is measured some people must end up on the extremes of the curve, this is entirely normal and is called a normal distribution.
Some people are good at sport, some people are poor at sport.
Some people are high EQ, some people are low EQ.
Some people are high IQ, some people are low IQ.
My special abilities allow me to conceive unusually and innovative solutions to problems, I can think around a problem in a way that 'normal' people are unable to even contemplate because they think in what I see as simplistic linear manner. I think this makes me and other similar people gifted not disabled.
I think you should read the THE EVIL PRACTICE OF NARCOTHERAPY FOR ATTENTION DEFICIT by Dr. David Keirsey. It may change the way you think about yourself.
You should also know that many of the greatest minds in history have exhibited the same symptoms as what is now called ADHD and/or Autism, Albert Einstein, Issac Newton, Isambard Brunel, Alexander Graham Bell; to name four.
There are many more here.
Finally two rhetorical questions.
Why are so many supposed 'normal' people prepared to label these abilities a disease or disability that must have a cause ? Many of these same people ascribe ADHD and/or Autism to MMR (or mercury in vaccines) because if it is a disease or disability it must have a cause. These 'normal' people are *supposed* to be empathic, yet give little consideration to our feelings in fact they do this despite our feels or thought on this subject. I think they should focus more effort into understanding that labelling.
This will be somewhat insensitive, and I apologize, but I find that people today overmedicate.
I've found that most people's ailments can be cured with two important things:
1) If you're overweight, you need to get at or below your "ideal" weight. Do what you have to do to get there. If you have to starve yourself, its better for you than to be fat. This goes contrary to "common" wisdom, but doctors now believe being overweight is so bad for you, that its better to just stop eating for a few weeks. It will be hard, its worse than heroin, but you can do it.
2) Exercise. Not the wimpy "walk around the block". Exercise every night until you sweat, your arms/legs ache, and you're out of breath. Do that for at least an hour.
3) Eat less overall. Scientist are now finding health is increased by not eating every other day and eating slightly more on the "other" days.
4) Never sleep in late. On weekdays never sleep past 6:30. On weekends, 7:00 should be your "luxury" sleep.
I promise you it will "cure" most of your problems. The bulk of today's problems... allergies, gastro-intestinal, circulatory, and chemical imbalance are squarely on the shoulders of our lifestyle which is essentially eating constantly (you don't need 3 meals a day), and then watching TV. Finally, you sit around and complain how tired you are.
You'll think this suggestion is silly and trivial. I promise you that its not. You should probably be eating 1/2 of what you eat today. Virtually every person living in the western world eats too much.
99% of the cases of this being diagnosed is fake.
The entire thing was created as a revenue stream for the doctors and drug companies, especially in children.
That's why they say 90% of kids have it.. bah they are just normal kids. The definition of normal is what they are trying to change.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
First off, I am ADHD but manage it quite well. In my opinion, many diseases like diabetes, hypoglycemia, ADHD, and certain mental illnesses are diet and lifestyle related. Note: I said "related" and not "caused".
:)
Shocked?!!
We live in a society where the docs tell you, "You aren't responsible for your disease and condition, just take this magic pill."
Tell me about your diet. Is it filled with sugar, carbs, and caffene? How regularly do you eat (3 meals per day)? Also, have you ever had your blood sugar checked?
Tell me about your excercise routine. Do you excercise daily, infrquently, or never?
What has helped me is:
1. Laying off the caffene, only one shot in the morning.
2. Eating well balanced meals that aren't filled with sugar and carbs at regularly scheduled times. I even eat Oatmeal for breakfast everyday now.
3. Daily excercise.
Don't lose heart. If you can do it for 20 days you can make something a habit/lifesytle change.
As for ADHD in children, have you visited a school lately? Schools now come equipped with vending machines and the Pop companies (coke/pepsi) give some of the profits back to the school. Where has common sense gone? Give kids stimulants and empty calories like pop and potato chips then expect them to behave and perform well? Whaaaaaa?
Note: I do believe that there are people with legitimate brain chemistry problems. However the vast majority of people just need to eat right, excercise, and work on some self discipline and they will be fine. Check Amazon.com for these books..
The Myth of ADHD and Other Learning Disabilities. Parenting Without Ritalin.
The A.D.D. and A.D.H.D. Diet! Updated
And remember, you are responsible for you. You have a disorder. You are NOT this disorder. Also there are no "silver bullets". No magic pills or herbs that will magically cure. However, I do get daily emails from some guys telling me that have an ancient formula to make my "package" larger.
Good Luck!
Jokes just like that just aren't funny. They're just boring. Like Windows. Microsoft people would probably like that joke, I like to call them MicroSofties. I don't know why. Maybe it's because Windows needs some TLC. That channel is boring. #boring on efnet is another boring channel, but I guess that wouldn't be for the same reasons. It sucks that so many IRC networks are down these days. I guess they just can't handle the load as much these days. That makes no sense though. There aren't really that many new people on IRC networks compared to ICQ or MSN ones...Microsoft should have made MSN messenger removable in Windows XP professional. I had to hack the registry to get it to stop coming up back when I was working as a full time computer tech, and that sucked. Kind of like this joke.
And that's why I think Ike Eisenhower should be president.
It's been a long time.
I went on chemotherapy for a platelet proliferation disorder in 1995 or so. It is called malignant by some doctors and benign by others, but definitely isn't metastatic. I researched my condition, found the expert researcher in the field, and made an appointment with him at the Mayo clinic. When I got back from there with a recommendation to go off chemo, my hematologist in Berkeley took his other three patients with the condition off of chemo as well. I am still symptom-free today. And I am a father now, but would probably have gone sterile if I stayed on chemo.
And this is just one of my three medical horror stories, another of which is a hyperactivity diagnosis in my youth with which I would take issue today, and the third of which is a motor speech and movement deficit that it took until I was 18 years old for me to beat. But I have beat all of these things.
You must fully engage in your medical care, and be the main person driving it. Not your doctor, you.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
I have been coping with depression and mood swings, although I had serious problems with intermittent hyperactivity in high school, which I "grew out of". I am now 25 and still have difficulty with mood, etc. Heavy drug use complicated things as well.
... this was compounded by my shrink "firing me" for a variety of reasons. I hit the wall very very hard. The additional complication was that I was taking 5-HTP in the evening to help with sleep. As the dose of the Zoloft was supposed to be dropping in my body over the next two weeks I increased the amount of 5-HTP I was taking both in the morning and in the evening to about 250mg a shot. After the psychosis of the Zoloft cold-turkey (serious) began to subside I felt better for a couple of days, then all of a sudden I turned red, my body went up to about 105oF and I started hallucenating. My heart felt like it was going to explode. I got sent home from work and slept it off for a few days. My doctor told me in passing that it was probably serotonin syndrome and that I should have gone to Emerg.
In January 2002 my depression was at its worst and I decided to start doing more research into brain chemistry and try to start making some positive decisions. At this point I started refining various regimens similar to what you have been taking.
The most critical thing I have found is to get *enough* sleep and *enough* stimulation. Too much or too little sleep seems to throw *whatever* brain chemicals are present out of whack. Too much stimulation, stress or worry seems to do the same. You spoke of being emotionally flatlined -- well, if you are an extreme person you are going to cause this to happen.
I read a couple of online forums which have since disappeared which helped me get my vitamins in order -- I take a mineral + base vitamin supplement (Life Brand senior's vitamins, better mix of minerals than most "SUPER HIGH POTENCY" adult crap) then I add on C, B-50 Complex, E, Calcium+Mag+Zinc (very important if you are a sexually active male) and Salmon Oil. Occasionally I take a small amount of Ginkgo and Ginseng, both only in the morning.
In Feburary 2002 I was in a deep depression and I was put on a massive dose of Zoloft. Over the period of 1995 - 2002 I was on and off doses of zoloft up to 200mg. It made me a zombie, 100% impotent and the depression was still there. I would usually end up doing opiates or anaesthetics to just zonk my emotions out anyways. I started ramping the dose of Zoloft down but since I was working 3 jobs totalling around 70-80 hours a week in high stress conditions I wasn't getting alot of sleep either (this is very easy on a high dose of Zoloft. You just don't sleep.) I finally got sick of the constant withdrawl effects of zoloft and went cold turkey. THIS IS A VERY BAD IDEA
So just a warning. Don't mess around with SSRI's and 5-HTP (or l-tryptophan) and MOST IMPORTANTLY DO NOT TAKE St. JOHN'S WORT WTHIN 1 MONTH OF A LARGE SSRI DOSE!!!
Next Point. I have in the meantime reduced my "illegal" drug intake to nil, reduced my sugar and caffeine intake to almost nil, started sleeping at least 6hrs/night or more and started a sauna/cardio/weights program a few days a week. Over the year I helped the down bumps with 5-HTP and when I was over-stimulated I went for a run. Now when I get depressed or excitable it seems to be able to run itself out without drama in an hour like other people seem to do.
The problem is that in the meantime it can be a very long process to get to that point.
Remember, MORE dopamine and MORE serotonin are only sometimes the answer, sometime you just need a little tiny bump. A glass of red wine or some red meat can in some cases do WONDERS.
Anyways...
--- ask me about nihilism, I will have nothing to tell you.
I am. I also happen to be an expert on the central catecholamine systems, which are implicated involved in ADD.
I really, really didn't want to be drawn into this debate because, like religion and politics, you are often either preaching to the choir or a wall.
However, your utter misinterpration of the dopaminergic system, along with the completely fallacious claim that many people have made regarding lack of scientific evidence is egregious.
ADD is real, and it's a problem of the brain. Its etiology is not completely understood, but better understood everyday. Is it over-diagnosed? Probably. Is Ritalin over-prescribed? Probably. However, the boundary between what is and is not ADD is fuzzy, and a difference of degree, not quality.
First, quick factual rectification: Increasing dopamine in the front of the brain does not slow the brain. In the front of the brain (prefrontal cortex), increased dopamine is thought to help keep focus on current task demands by sharpening their representations in attractor networks of neurons. That is to say, the front of the brain keeps "online" what it is you intend to do right now. If this "goal" or "intention" fades or is disrupted by competing intentions, you get off track and distracted. In ADD patients, this is thought to happen too readily. Increasing dopamine levels (via agonists like ritalin) is thought to help lock down intentions and goals, keeping them "online" and the person "focused."
However, the majority of your post is a kind of armchair philosophizing about the place of ADD in the spectrum of psychiatric disorders. Unfortunately, convincing the general public of the reality of psychiatric illness and the utlity of psychoactive medications is a problem of paradigm. People, including you, are far and away dualists even when they claim not to be. And I use dualism here in an extended sense, to appy to psychology as it does to to metaphysics. People tend to be adamant that there is a distinction between the mind and the brain. People tend to think there are a class of "real" organic disorders of the brain, and then there a bunch of fluffy dysfunctions of the "mind" which are due to socialization, personality, will, judgment, and possibly genetics (although they don't see the contradiction of this last one).
Here's the truth: You are your brain, your brain is you. The brain gives wholly rise to the mind, and the mind is wholly derived from the function of the brain. One is a phenomenological construct, the other is the implementing hardware.
Here's another truth: The brain is plastic and every moment of experience changes it. Now, all organs changes and adapt, but no other organ is designed to be as profoundly plastic as the brain.
The first point invalidates the idea that some psychological problems are just "in people's heads" while others are "chemical imbalances." Every feature of a person's behavior is rooted in the brain. Some breakdowns in brain function have a gross, systematic nature that makes them easier to categorize (schizophrenia, parkinsons, alzheimer's, etc.). While some, like ADD are a little subtler. And some, like personality disorders, are subtler still and chronic. Generally, the more the disorder impacts the way the brain conveys personality, social interaction, or sense of "self" the more we believe the problem to be relegated to the artificial realm of "mind" not body.
The second point underscores the fact that both chemical and experiential treatment of the brain have real impact. By chemical, I mean psychopharmacology. By experiential, I mean things like psychotherapy, self-therapy, social interaction, changing the environment. All these things affect a person's mind and hence their brain (or vice versa).
Anyway, back to science: Here's a good reference on the scientific basis of ADD. Its a little dated, but it's by the same group that performed the neuroimaging study some AC linked to earlier (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/events/pradhd.htm ).
Yes, I have it and when I look back, seems I've suffered from it for a long time. It seems to be TOO much attention at times. To me, I explain it like your 'radar' is picking up thousands of signals and your brain has to sort out the good signals from the bad which takes time and engergy. Most people that know someone with ADHD will notice they will start on a projects and then jump to something else, then something else, like hundreds of nested subroutines. Before you know it, you're supposed to goto the market, and then the next thing you know, you're painting the house! I tend to hyperfocus on things that I like, spending hours with something and getting mad when I get interrupted yet my attention wanders when I'm in a class listening to something boring or the wife is yelling at me. ADHD is not a defect, its just a different method of doing things. I actually tend to function better when I have a very busy day at work and can multitask better when my brain is at 100% load. I get bored easily. I used to be good at cooking because of so much going at one time. I take adderol which I find helpful although I get sluggish when it wears off. For those of us that get these racing thoughts just spinning around, you just have to tell yourself STOP. Stop all the wild thoughts and force yourself to return to something you may have stopped. Making lists also helps instead of trying to remember it all and use some self talk when you catch yourself doing ADD type behaviour. It's not easy to do to always be aware of one's behaviour, but the effort is worth it and makes things easier. Of course, getting others to understand your ADD is probably even harder to do.
-- After all is said and done, more is said than done.
A study was done on a few children with ADD. The motivation had to do with poor diet not providing enough. "...magnesium has reduced hyperactivity in children in preliminary research. Other research suggests that some children with ADD have lowered levels of magnesium. In a preliminary but controlled trial, 50 ADD children with low magnesium (as determined by red blood cell, hair, and serum levels of magnesium) were given 200 mg of magnesium per day for six months. Compared with 25 other magnesium-deficient ADD children, those given magnesium supplementation had a significant decrease in hyperactive behaviour"
I grew up with ADHD. I took ritilin early on to help me focus, and according to my Mom and grade school teachers it worked ( one of my teachers thought I should be institutionalized, either I had it bad, or she was impatient, maybe both.. ) Realize this was in the late 60's early 70's, and it was not as common as today to diagnose someone ADHD.
Lucky for me, my Mom had some sense, and did not keep me drugged up all of the time. During the school year, she made sure I took the medicine, in as low a dose as was effective, in order to help me in dealing with learning, school, other kids, etc, etc. ( you need someone to monitor you, I had *no* idea how I was doing... ) Off times ( and I think weekends ), I was off the medicine, in order to help me to learn to deal with how I was. I thank God every day she did.
A crutch is a good thing, but becoming reliant on it will not do you good long term. IHMO, you will do yourself a big favor if you get to where you can cope without.
I now work as a programmer, and, I think, not too bad a one. I have taken on tech lead type positions as well, and I think I have been moderately successfull in that as well. I have a family and kids, and life is pretty normal for me.
AFA differences between me and my coworkers and being effective on the job, I have always found that my thought processes were different than the "normal" people around me. I dont know if that is a result of ADHD, or just how I would have been without. I find that there is no real/marked qualitative or quantitative difference in my thinking, just different, I find that I am able to function in the same league as the best of the developers I find myself working with. I write bugs just like everyone else, find and fix them like others, function in archetechtural discussions like others.
David J. Davison
emt 377 emt 4
I personally believe that ADHD or whatever you want to call it is the result of two factors (at least in my case):
1) Boredom and lack of challenge.
2) Lack of self-discipline
The self discipline comes with age, however if the first condition is not remidied the second continues to fester and may never properly develop.
I was diagnosed with hyperactivity in 1978.
I slept through almost all of my kindergarten class and the teacher decided that I should repeat it. My mother, knowing that I was definitely smart enough to pass kindergarten, decided to have me tested for learning disorders, psychological problems, Iq, etc.
The results came back that I was reading and doing math on a high school level and my IQ around 150. This in addition immense hyperactivity. Medication was recommended, but my mother was against it. She prefered to use diet (Feingold diet) to try to control my hyperactivity.
The public school I went to still declined to promote me to the first grade, regardless of my test scores, so my mother and father sent me to a private school.
The school I attended for 2 years was set up to have children "work at their own pace" without alot of "structure" that could inhibit them. In other words, they let us run free and provided us with a workbook that encapsulated the whole school year's worth of teaching. Needless to say, this was not the best environment for a super-hyper child.
After two years at private school I returned to a public magnet school. Again I took tests to determine my level of aptitude (because I had been in a private school) and again I tested exceptionally high. I entered the chronologically correct grade (third) and continued to progress chronologically through the grades.
The odd thing, to me, is that never in my young academic life had anyone ever done anything that would challenge me. The facts of my intelligence were plain to those around me. My ability to do the work given was never questioned. I even percieved things that others my age did not understand. The standardized tests I took each year showed 99 percentile in every category. And even thought I would altenately sleep and let my attention wander during class, when examintations were given I always passed with near perfect or perfect scores.
This continued until I reached the seventh grade. This year they were offering Algebra to certain students. I asked my math teacher if I could take Algebra, and she, knowing my aptitude requested that I be able to. I think, however, that the fact that I became a little too talkative in when I was bored kept me out of the class, because, even with the recomendation of my math teacher, I was denied.
Here's the kicker: after the selected students had taken the algebra course for half of a year, the entire grade was given the "algebra palcement test." There were 64 questions on the test. My score was a perfect 64 out of 64. The next best score was from one of the students who had been in the algebra class for half a year already. He scored slightly less than 50% correct. I took my test scores to the principal and asked to be admitted to the algrbra class. I was flatly refused. No reason was given even when I asked.
I would definitely say that was the turning point for me. I completely gave up. My distraction became a way of life for me (in school that is). The school responded by putting me in a class for people with learning disorders where, ironically, it was guaranteed that I would learn absolutely nothing.
The school also assigned me a psychiatrist who immediately gave me more tests and summarily handed me the application to the Mensa society and wondered if I could get into Intertel as well.
To me this was unbelievably fucked up. The school systems I had been in had no regard for my prowess or my intellectual needs, and regarded me as a disciplinary problem, but the psychiatrist they assigned to find out what was wrong with me figures I need to be i
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
Drugs are not the only way to get serotonin. Try stimulating activities and socializing.
This will get your brain to produce more serotonin, naturally, and improve your mood.
Some background, I guess, followed by my story with depression, anxiety, and drug abuse.
Was a slacker in high school, never did assignments or homework, but aced standardized testing and got by.. would stay home weeks at a time from school creating webpages and programming an OSS mail & news client of mine. Got away with it fine (schools like smart kids), but my parents said my 'truancy' was caused by depression, and have said I've been depressed since 14 or 15 when I got my computer. Bullocks, pardon my proper English. Had a very few friends at high school, but was quite comfortable with them and spent lots of time on Usenet, Slashdot, programming, building my webpages, webring.org, the whole shebang.
Enter junior year of high school -- marijuana. Found out that it wasn't as bad as the folks had said, and I even enjoyed it. It became a more common activity, until it was daily. Was a bit shy around some of my new friends but generally OK. Enter <trying real life events here> coinciding with end of high school and semester off. Drug usage turned to full fledged drug abuse, had severe anxiety and was not dealing well at all with things. By this time, I had dug myself into one hell of a hole.
Few months later, decide I want to quit pot, so I go to my family. My mother suggests a detox for marijuana, so I went along with it (even tho I should have known there was no detox for pot), went to the hospital, long story short, they I was in an acute condition, no pot detox exists, so they put me in the psych ward. Diagnosis: "Depression & marijuana abuse". Well, now, I would say I wasn't depressed, but the anxiety was there. They don't really diagnose social anxiety at this place, and depression is a generic diagnosis. Whatever.. so they got me on Paxil, working up from 20 to 50 mg, which I thought would serve well. Said it'd take 6 weeks to kick in full. Every week I felt it a bit more and hoped for it to be better and my problems will be solved or for life to be be easier. I'll tell you I was going crazy at that place, mostly to get OUT.
Well, my time came, 28 days later I had put on 40 pounds, and was discharged with an outpatient plan and RXes for Paxil (depression & anxiety), Buspar (anxiety), Zyprexa (paranoia -- maybe caused by pot they say). For months after I was just hoping for the medication to kick in harder and do it for me. Real stupid, to trust your life to a drug instead of yourself. I neglected to do anything I really wanted and opted for laziness and not changing my lifestyle -- still endless hours online without much work, and marijuana usage. Went in with one addiction, came out with pot, cigs, and three pharms, at least one of which is addicting, and in worse shape. I'll tell you, I was not depressed until I was committed to a mental hospital. The stigma, the shame, the betrayal. Whatever, it was bad. I basically lost interest in everything and fell into a deep depression. This was early 2002. From March 2002 to June 2003 I have spend my days chain smoking on the Internet in severe depression. Prior to the hospitalization, I had treated my misery with drugs and food. Now, I was treating it with self-destructive behavior and cigarettes.
I've been in a deep depression and had moderate use of illicit drugs and constant use of legal and pharmeceutical drugs for well over the past year, and I was an emotionless, severely depressed, drugged up zombie. I first quit illicit drugs cold turkey, followed quickly by quitting cold turkey my heavy dose of an SSRI, anti-anxiety agents, and an anti-psychotic that was prescribed in haste, using a regime
-DAVEO