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Flexible Computers in the Future?
An anonymous reader writes "New Scientist is reporting on Sony bendable input devices. When computers become too small to be operated by buttons, how will we control them? The only option will be to gently bend them, according to engineers at Sony's Interaction Lab in Tokyo." The diagrams make it look like a warped Game Boy. Looks pretty cool, though.
They've got this really bizarre idea over there, but they don't seem to have a realistic idea of how it would work in real life devices.
Does anyone have any ideas?
I have been pwned because my
what happens if you leave it in your pocket and sit on it and bend it? then where will you end up?
FP!
Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thraktuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
or if cell phones can guess what I'm saying as I thumb-type words, why do I need to bend the phone?
"Get Bent"
However, if this is ever marketed with that slogan I'll be shocked and disgusted... and then try to weasel some money out of the deal.
*honk*
This is my sig. It's prescription, I swear. I need it for reading things... on the other side of things
Yes, I know they're small piezoelectric particles to generate voltage when compressed, but those can't last forever. The material of the card might start developing a memory if you bend it too much.
However, this will be kickass if they can make them cheap enough. Imagine: walk up to a vending machine in an airport, buy a little credit-card sized game to occupy you during the flight, and throw it away when the battery runs out. Or have a book on the card - a novel and text output probably won't take up that much memory.
Quarter-bend to the left is "back", quarter-bend to the right is "forward". To close the browser window, just fold and put in your pocket. Rip the display in half to "view source".
Kip Hawley is an idiot.
Nobody considered simple voice recognition?
When computers become too small to be operated by buttons, how will we control them?
Here's a thought... when they get that small, small is no longer the issue... spend some time on improving battery life / screen resolution / feature X.
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
i remember there was a controller for the SNES, Genesis, and i think NES called the turbo touch 360 that used a laser sensor on a flat surface instead of the Dpad, i was thinking maybe an updated version of that which detects a finger covering some light emitting gizmo.
or how about connectors which can be fused through skin?
and i've often seen elevator buttons which aren't buttons but solid flat things that seem to only activate when i touch it with my finger (i tried poking one with my keys and it didn't work), i'm not sure how those work but it seems like that could be implemented in a thin device as well.
bending seems like a decent idea but i'm so used to jamming my finger onto things to make things happen.
Imagine: walk up to a vending machine in an airport, buy a little credit-card sized game to occupy you during the flight, and throw it away when the battery runs out.
And designing things to be thrown away is good practice?
Seems to me that flexing the device is more complex & difficult and than using buttons. I think they are barking up the wrong tree with this idea!
Finally, I might actually be able to get the all new , redesign, second generation Etch-a-Sketch
Yeah, i don't see why you couldn't put buttons on this thing. If its too small for buttons, its too small to hold on to... having it be flexible so it won't break when you sit down with it in your pocket might be nice, but there's no need to eliminate buttons alltogether just because its possible.
But these are made cheap enough that breakage is not a major issue. They seem to be a great replacement for paper goods, like maps road maps and travel guides, things that you're not going to be using for more than a few weeks at most in all likelihood.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
I wonder if this device can be made into the form of an office swivel chair. A few receptionist/office admin would get a lot more work done by simply sitting there and swivel and shake.
Im not sure the idea of moving a cursor by moving your finger on a small touchpad is the most efficient idea, UI wise. It seems too ungainly, and a pain to use. Touchpads are not as good as a mouse, especially a small one. The only easy way to interface is to touch the screen on the front. Though im not sure how one gets around entering text easily...our current ways of using a stylus, moving a cursor, or pressing tiny keyboard buttons just to enter in some words just doesnt cut it. There has to be an easier and more efficient way of doing this.
A Touch sensitive pad can work with :click, drag, double tap, tap, and even triple tap, but it cannot understand majically WHICH GODDAMNED finger you are using by using psychic powers.
That is why the Apple Mac OS (no second mouse button idiocy) , and NeXTStep gui (2nd mouse = 1st button unless custom overridden by user after purchase) are ideal for flexible illuminated placemat computers.
This was discussed in 1983.
Apple planned on this over 20 years ago.
That is whay a gui needs to be finger-order insensitive. The COMPLETE gui.
The mouse pointer can be drawn offset half an inch above the estimated center point of your finger tip pressure.
I love Apple. And having a graphical user interface since the Apple Lisa shipped in November 1982 (same month the black and white cassette-drive 64K ram IBM PC shipped for 600 dolalrs at Sears) is a great thing.
I am glad the Apple GUI won... but I am saddened that linux people cannot unclutter their lives and respect one-button plans on a flexible computer placemat computer of 2010.
It is perfectly suited for Apple gui model... unlike MS windows, which has a few actions that REQUIRE two buttons and cannot be implemented on a placemat flexicomputer easily.
To me it looks like searching the map will become similar to one of those puzzle maze games - bend too much and you will end up in the middle of nowhere.
am trying to understand what you are saying, but it simply doesn't make sense (despite your little jab about logic and whatnot).
What doesn't make sense about it? I'll try to clarify it for you.
Feel free to contact me at RowsNSkis@yahoo.com if you really want to talk about it. The slashdot forums are not the place for this discussion.
- "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
This potential problem is what came to my mind immediately as well. However, I do not think it will be as large of a problem as it may at first seem.
It seems, for example, that even bending the device once will result in *some* retention of that bent shape. This establishes what is minimally the initial lower threshold for registering an intentional 'bend'.
However, consider even the common household rubber band. Even if stretched to two or three times its originally length repeatedly, while there will be some net increase in its length at rest, that increase will be only a small fraction of the length it may be repeatedly extended to.
If the flexible portion of this device which is intended to register user input is composed of a similar, though certainly more durable substance, there should be relatively little concern of the device becoming non-functional due to any permanent retention of the extended shape, any time within its useful life.
It would, I suppose, just be a matter of identifying for that particular substance what threshold value for the registering of user input results in the best balance between registering only intentional bends and the corresponding net percentage retention of the extended or bent shape.
1) There are actually people who don't believe that Jesus was the messiah
Yeah, they are called 'Muslims'. There might be a few around. Maybe they are on to something?
Allah U Ackbar
"When computer get too small for buttons..."
Reminds me of a Bloom County comic strip where Milo & gang go to the new 3000 theatre mega-cinema or whatever it was called. An announcement comes over the P.A. system: "Due to our recent expansion to 3000 screens, our screen size has shrunk so small it's no longer visible. Please exit to the side."
Unless the device has a different practical use than displaying information (such as playing MP3s or whatever) you're not really going to want something so tiny it's physically unusable. There's something to be said for real buttons that you can press and get positive tactile feedback.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
It would be really interesting when people decided to put one of these things in there pocket without turning it off. Every time they set down, it could be executing a program and running amuck. I guess it would be no worse than forgetting to lock your cell phone key pad and accidentally dialing 911 on it. :-/
video link here
visit earth2willi.com!
... in quicktime format (mplayer can do this) movie can be found here
... has nothing to do with my comment, but I was thinking about how it would be nice to have softer, more organic bendable devices to stuff in my pockets, this thought came specifically after I pulled my new motorola T720 out of my pocket and discovered the anteanna had gone impotent on me... permanently.
I'm all for some more flexible devices, but the flexibility controlling them?, would there be the equivalent of a "hold" switch or keyguard to prevent you from accidentaly hacking the CIA by doing jazzercise (assuming these gain wireless capabilities) or maybe just accidently creating a bunch of new To Do list items simply stating "......." (I get that a lot with my palm pilot with a broken off cover, also because of pocket stuffing)
Or should I just stop whining and don a Batmanesque belt presenting all my devices within my reach and within women's views so as to entice them to <sarcasm> pursue that "Batmanesque stud" </sarcasm>
Hey, bite my shiny metal ass!
This seems like a solution in search of a problem. Using Jot (or other character-at-a-time input methos), you can write on something as small as a watch face.
If they can make a device "bendable" why not just "touchable". No large protruding buttons, but maybe something to sense impact, body heat or electrostatic impulses. My touchpad on my laptop didn't seem to have a large controller chip, if they could microsize that perhaps we could have touchpad-cards?
So, if the device has a touchpad already, why not just have the user tap the touchpad to do things like mouse clicks? Is it just in order to have more than one button? If so, I really don't see the reason. If the devices are designed to be "cheap" and have a limited life, as most of these posts have been guessing, what application could there be for it that would need more than one button? Games? I would think you could just tap in different areas of the touchpad.
Although, I do remember when Nintendo first came out, and watching many people play, it was apparent that the thought that pressing harder or twisting the controller would make Mario jump higher or move faster. Maybe this is a product of that ideal.
I think those design people missed out something in their college careers. They missed out learning the principle of diminishing returns.
Being small only gets you so far, and just because you can make it smaller doesn't mean that you should. For example, take your average ball-point pen. Most pens you can buy in a store are about the same size - a good fit for an average hand. Yet, I've seen a few "toy" pens here and there - I remember there was a teeny pen on a swiss army knife I owned. That thing was completely useless. You could attempt to write with it, but your hands cramped up almost instantly. That's probably the reason you don't see a lot of swiss army knives with pens as attachments nowdays. I'm sure there are ways of making a new "interface" for a miniature ball-point pen - for example, if you had nothing to do, you could probably attach it to a thimble and have a half-decent pen. The point is, that people don't do it. There is a thing as TOO small.
I think handheld computers too are getting to their natural sizes with the Palm (and PocketPC) form factors. If you get too much smaller, you start squinting at the screen and there's the whole issue of diminishing utility again. Input into the thing becomes just one of your (many) issues. I had a teensy cell phone for example, and I was in constant fear of losing it in the cushions of my couch. I actually upgraded to a larger phone with more features and a longer battery life - because the size of the previous phone was a nuisance rather than a benefit.
There are two powerhouses in the PDA industry, Pocket PC and Palm.. Sorry guys, Zaurus IMO is still a non-mainstream. Firstly I'm not gonna talk about a specific PDA or specific brand, rather PDA in general.
In general, most people use PDAs for the address book function, and majority of these people uses the Appointment/Calendar function too. Some would also use the notes function too, but seldom. Anything extra, rest assured you can call yourself a power user. I know this for a fact because I used to work in a retail shop selling PDAs
Let's look at features that most users want..
Handy - Small, slim stylish design that you can keep in your shirt pockets. Not something the size of a brick, and weighs like one!
Battery - You want something that can last at least for a few days without charging the battery (One Pocket PC brand got it right finally, by having removable batteries)
Affordability - Most Tom, Dick and Harries don't need the bells and whistles and the extra gadgets like cameras, bluetooth, Wi-Fi, modems, large external storage. Something reasonable is probably the order of the day. All those extras costs money, house-wives don't need most of 'em in order to keep track of their grocery shopping list do they.. So are students, secretaries and bosses, normal users and joes like me ;-P
Most of those who bought brick-like units are usually either power users (who knows what they want) or those who got too much money and wanna show off. I call these PDAs - Show-Off Units.
Sony bendable handhelds, well, Look and see.. Price-wise, if they're out of reach, most joes won't use it. Battery-wise, too short, they're not Palm-Tops nor Pocket PCs, rather Desktop PDAs, since they're perpetually connected to their charger unit. If it is too bulky, hell no, I'm not gonna use it, cuz it won't stay in my pocket. I don't wanna look like a fully packed Llama
In the end, I (and most joe user) want something convenient to use to get day to day tasks done
Will sys-admin for food
And designing things to be thrown away is good practice?
;-)
You keep your used toilet paper?
I can just imagine Joe Cocker unwinding on one of these after a concert. I'd give the thing two minutes in his hands.
As long as we have to physically interact with electronic devices with some part of our body there will always be buttons, switches, knobs, dials, etc. I think we are much more likely to see digital versions of these types of interface devices becoming widely adopted. Space is certainly a premium, but with any physical object you always have a back side, for example my dad was recently in Holland and his business partner over there drives a car that has the radio controls on the back side of the stearing wheel, exactly where your fingers rest when you drive.
Not to mention forcing the general public to learn a new way to interface, which we all know is difficult, but these devices are going to have to be extremely well made to withstand all the abuse. With the rapidly dropping quality of consumer-level products I'd be quite wary of purchasing something that by it's very nature would have to go through all that.
sig.
"The tactile screen will also let you "feel" images on a website. Touch a heart-shaped icon, say, and the vibrating strips simulate a pulsing heartbeat"
Well, now you have your answer...
P R 0 n !
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
And designing things to be thrown away is good practice?
Yes, it is, because then people at least make the effort of making it recyclable.
- And designing [games] to be thrown away is good practice?
;-)
Do you play games *that* badly?You keep your used toilet paper?
yes, we have no bananas
This is cool. The tourist map thing is fairly obvious, but you could have a range of different cards in your wallet, that you could swap with relatives/mates etc. The book idea is good, magazines & newspapers on card would also work. Go to the counter in the newsagents and get your choice of reading material uploaded. Etcha-sketch not far off the mark, it could be a sketchpad for your use (probs need some kind of stylus tho, extra parts == bad). Games are always good. You could have a photo album one, put it in the place in your wallet where you keep pics of your loved ones, and it could cycle through - a new pic everytime you open your wallet.
Apperently capitalism likes it... Just ask Mr. Gillete.
...they're too small!
I was wondering too much about it.. it happend years before.. but now.. I still think this is the only perfect way:
:)
Have one litle headphone-micro in your ear. And one retina projectors (in your glasses or your heat, or whatever position). So you can see everything what is important, and you can controll with your eyes and your voice.
To call a friend just say "phone" "call" "joe"
and the call is on the way..
or if you want to know where you are, just say "map" "locate" and you will see front of you the map, and your locatinon.. and so on..
this technic is not the future.. it is working nowdays, just not included together.. yet..
I belive, this will be the modern mobile computers future..
or any one know a better one?
There is only one good solution: The simpliest!
Isn't the whole thing kinda... limited? I mean, how many ways can you bend something? And even their example application looks like it would be much easier to just add 2 small buttons.
Early this year, I saw some fairly sophisticated interaction using a flexible input device called ShapeTape, made by Canada's Measurand. While the company is marketing it as a motion-capture and 3D modeling technology, Tovi Grossman at the University of Toronto's Dynamic Graphics Project has been working under Ravin Balakrishnan to explore other applications for ShapeTape, including as a general input device. For example, you can use it in computer-assisted design or animation to make and perform some fairly complex 3D curves and manipulations in far less time than it would take with keyboards, mice or drawing tablets.
The Association of Computing Machinery's computer-human interaction publication CHI Letters' latest edition includes their paper on the use of ShapeTape (2 MB PDF), which was presented at the ACM CHI 2003 conference on human factors in computing systems along with MPEG demonstration videos. (3 min. basic - 15 MB | 15 min. complete - 190 MB)
Grossman's Web page includes links to other videos and previous papers.
Computer graphics and animation tool-maker Alias|Wavefront also has several videos that featured former chief scientist Bill Buxton demonstrating ShapeTape in use:
And, of course, ShapeTape maker Measurand also has further information and videos.
...in a science fiction story more than 20 years ago. Unfortunately, I forget the author - anybody else remember that one?
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
If you want a large keyboard but don't want to carry around bigger things than your PDA there are fabric keyboards that double as a wrapper case.
I used to think FlexATX was a flexable motherboard...
What happens when machines become our hands?
Ace
Reminds of the variable resistive nintendo power glove .
.
...
Flex resistors that change resistance based on how much
they were flexed , an old idea with a new twist
Not sure what the spatial sensors were though
Ex-MislTech
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
Lower tech than most of the solutions popping up, but Namco did release the twisty NegCon controller, which in the future could be part of the time line of this field of devices...
And designing things to be thrown away is good practice?
Works for boomerangs
When cars become too small to drive, the only option will be to gently bend them. :)
That's how ridiculous this business of changing the ergonomics to conform to the implementation sounds.
If I had a Pentium-IV equivalent system the size of a quarter that could be powered by a watch battery, you know what I'd do with it? I'd build it into a full-sized IBM keyboard. Or, for more mobility, how about one of those portable Palm keyboards?
I certainly have no desire to bend anything just because the guts are small. Also, if these things are expensive I don't want them to be too small anyway. Too easy to lose.
When computers become too small to operate, the only option will be to gently bend them, and throw them into the garbage.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
am i the only person who prefers big? :|
all these damm things are getting smaller and some mobile phones i cant see the screen anymore they need to be bigger not smaller
That's like one of those simple NP-complete problems.
:-)
Accountability on the heads of the powerful.
Power in the hands of the accountable.
I too have always just held the mouse button down a little longer on the old hockey puck. Brings up the same sort of menu as right-button on windows. I was always confused when Windows fanboys (why are Windows fanatics called fanboys and mac fanatics called zealots?) said "One button mice suck, you can't do anything with them".
OTOH, learning to use 2 buttons on my mouse took me about..oh I dunno, 10 seconds? Both systems work well, I woud agree that in a space limited environment like this "Gummi", the Mac system seems to be better suited.
Any bets on Sony coming up with a proprietary system (cough memory stick cough)?
And designing things to be thrown away is good practice?
;-)
You keep your used toilet paper?
No, but do you read yours?
Toilet paper is designed to be thrown away because it's main purpose is to clean you and then be thrown away.
A game is designed to be played and then be played again and when you run out of batteries, replace them. When they have a solution which enables things to be recycled in such a way that the remaining garbage is the same as for a battery (or pref. less) then you can start to design stuff to be thrown away after it's emptied.
I hope it's not going to be a habbit to throw things away just because it's easier for the lazy ones. (or cheaper to produce a new item to be thrown away...)
On the other hand, just bought a dispensible car. (it'll just end up on the scrapyard a few months later)
... Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer? Ja!... Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
"My flexible friend" (putting butter on his sandwich using his creditcard)
I'm Gummi, dammit!
...they've been working on a different approach specifically with PDAs. The technique uses spacial orientation for scrolling and zooming to give a peephole view of a larger picture.
Here's a link to the main researcher's website incluiding papers, videos and posters.
In C++, friends can touch each others private parts.
This is just another step down the slippery slope. Someday the computers will be controlling us!
It seems like a design like this would contribute MORE to the problem of CTS. The repeated "commands" would all involve twisting the wrists, wouldn't they? ...and can you imagine the the increase in CTS when the adult entertainment industry gets their hand (no pun intended) on these?
After realising that its customers didn't know what bending function went with what computer function, Sony has decided to include a tutorial. Instead of the cheap, easy method of displaying pictures on the screen, they have used artifical muscles to bend the necessary bits of the computer.
In order to provide a more useful function, the mini computers have a screen-saver mode that can optionally bend the computer when it is not busy. Sony innovators figured that strange movements in people's pockets have either become accepted, or been ignored completely in the past.
Ask me about repetitive DNA
Actually, flexing a device as input was mentioned in CM Kornbluth's "The Little Black Bag", which was first published in July 1950.
The bag in question was full of futuristic, computer controlled medical tools, one of which was a reference card that could be cycled through many pages of text simply by flexing it.
Great story ...
If you think this is cool, you should also check out the HP Itsy. You interact with said device by holding it at different angles, and hitting one button. Yes, you can play Doom like that :)
~pi
Great. now they're gonna have that creepy shaven kid from the matrix bending their products with his thoughts.
just when you thought the intel jingle was getting annoying they bring this out. oy.
The latest survey shows that 75% makes up 3/4 of the population.
...eXistenZ
Babies are cute because they have to be.
"The Little Black Bag" By Kornbluth, Cyril M. (1950)
The basic plot deals with a doctors black bag which is sent back in time. The tools and medicines are all so advanced that anyone can use them. Inside the bag is an instuction book. It is a credit card size piece of plastic which has printed info on both sides and you change the printing by flexing the card.
(I may be wrong on the details as I do not have the story with me at the moment) It is a very good story.
to troubleshoot broken motherboards. I worked in a manufacturing environment working on IBM portable 386 computers. We'd get in a batch of returned mobos and have to repair them. In troubleshooting, we'd bend the board to try and get it fail. The more things change...
Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Gummi has all the important features, albeit in crude versions...
Which means that Gummi has all of the porn you will ever need...
Does this remind anyone else of that picture browser in Blade Runner?
I am a Wisconsinite, and I despise how wastefull the American economy is.
> just bought a dispensible car
AKA Kia. (okay, okay, Hyundais too)
> I am a Wisconsinite, and I despise how wastefull the American economy is.
Never heard of that before... Anything like Samsonite? Are you Leather luggage? Anyway, you're wrong (but I don't blame you, everyone generalizes). The American Economy is not wasteful at all. You are giving way too much weight to an intangible thing. Put the blame where the blame belongs: it's the people who are wasteful. That's like saying SUVs run people over and kill them. It's the jackasses driving them that cause the deaths, not the car. Also, you are implicitly including every American in your statement, which, since you are obviously NOT one of those wasteful people, is untrue. I happen to be one of those wasteful people, so blame ME. Everyone else does...
simple, just imbed them into our skin/clothing/jewlery and have them link up to a wireless control device that's connected to your nervous system...
Seriously though; eventually there's going to be some sort of nervous system -> computer interface developed that doesn't involve actual physical contact/motion. Until then, what we have now [and in some situations voice commands] should be sufficient.
Come on, trolls, yer slacking here!
Imagine a beowulf cluster of these.... okay, it's said now.
And to top it all off, he thought about the women with his creation, also!
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
Begone, evil christian demon! Back to the depths of heaven with you! In the name of science I command you! Leave this poor persons body, and restore common sense once again!
*spritzes turpentine around and lights it*
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
I can just see...
"Honey, are we lost?"
"Don't worry, we've got a map."
*snap*
"oh fuck."
Touch screens wear easily. They work on subtle electrical signals, which makes them highly susceptible to dirt, and liquid. Food and touchpads absolutely do not mix. And I'm not talking about smearing ketchup on your device. Put down your ice cold soda on a humid day, and there's enough moisture on your hand to drive a touchpad batshit loony.
Piezoelectric sensors, by contrast, can be internally mounted, instead of surface mounted. You can eat a hotdog, or stand outside in the pouring rain searching for you hotel on the map, and the damned thing will still work like a champ.
Just because it works, doesn't mean it isn't broken.
Then how would I drive, talk on the phone and use my palm at the same time?? Sheesh!
.. might be the next big brand in computer industry..
And I suppose you are going to explain the 3 seashells??
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed