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SCO's Other Investor: Sun Microsystems
Vicegrip writes "Apparently Sun not only bought extra licenses from SCO, but also obtained the option to buy a nice stake in the company: 'The pact, signed earlier this year, expanded the rights Sun acquired in 1994 to use Unix in its Solaris operating system. But there's more to the relationship: SCO also granted Sun a warrant to buy as many as 210,000 shares of SCO stock at $1.83 per share as part of the licensing deal, according to a regulatory document filed Tuesday.'" A reader points out Ransom Love's 2000 Linuxworld keynote speech.
you should also note that the only reason for the expansion of the license was to allow sun to do intel hardware drivers under Solaris..soemthing they could have adpoted from Linux without any costs what so ever..
Don't Tread on OpenSource
Granting Sun a warrant to buy shares, eh? Sounds pretty overconfident to me. I'll hop right on that bandwagon and buy into the sinking ship!
KappaStone
Since IBM has the option of planting a nice stake in SCO.
If SCO wins, and their shares skyrocket, Sun can still buy at $1.83. If they don't win? Well, no sweat off Sun's back - the deal was done in the past and is a sunk cost. I'd love to be in that spot.
Although Sun has broader rights than do other Unix licensees such as IBM and Hewlett-Packard, it doesn't have the right to release Unix source code or Sun modifications to it as open-source software, SCO spokesman Blake Stowell said.
... so *you* did, and, apparently well, you *did*. Therefore, you should just shut up now. M'kay?
Yeah...but...*flashback to Linuxworld 2000*
But clearly we are going to add components back to the Linux kernel on both IA-32 and IA-64 platforms. We'll work with Linus and everyone in order to make that available.
Thank you.
My journal has hot
I had a letter from Sun the other day trying to convince us to drop AIX and buy Solaris, on the assumption that we're 'concerned', and are scared we'd 'lose' our license to AIX....
Since the stock deal represents roughly 1.5% of SCO's outstanding shares, Sun would probably be better off taking the cash and running. Since SCO is currently trading around $11 a share, Sun could buy at $1.83, sell immediately and pocket about $2 million profit. Given the recent runup in the SCO stock price, perhaps Sun is waiting to see how much more they could make...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
People keep saying the Microsoft is the devil.
But as we like to say it (in the Usual Suspect), "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist."
And that apparently is SUN Microsystems.
What are Sun thinking? They want everyone to migrate off Sun boxes like people have been doing to SCO?
Stuff like this annoys techies and techies have quite a lot of influence over IT purchasing decisions in many businesses. Do Sun think that supporting SCO is going to win them more business than it will lose them? My understanding of business is that it is a very bad move to do stuff that your customers dislike...
Reading the article it seemed that this was primarily a purchase of code.
Sun purchased drivers and other stuff to use in its i86 version of Solaris, along with the rights to show that code to others.
As for the stock options; SCO probably needed the cash, Solaris had the cash so the directors of Sun decided to gamble. Solaris gets options for a price, and if SCO does good they stand to make a really nice profit. SCO gets some additional cash and has a little protection from Solaris since any action by Sun has to include potential profits from using the stock options.
Sun has been facing a dilemma for some time now. Originally a high-tier supplier, they're getting pushed down the chain. Once upon a time, they were an excellent choice for network infrastructure and servers. But now?
Even the largest companies who need big iron systems rarely go to Sun anymore. Google has shown that even using thousands of 'white boxes' works, and Apple, Microsoft, and even IBM have been muscling in on Sun's traditional market. The dot com days were great for Sun, but now they're left as a giant church without any congregation.
So Sun needs a way to exercise its muscle once again, and with its recent tie up with Oracle, it's starting to do this (albeit with help). If Sun can carve out a significant role in the SCO case, it could certainly cash in from the exposure, and any potential win for SCO.
Of course, I don't think SCO stands a chance, and that we're going to see traditional UNIX crash down around itself. Sun has always been a company that intrigues me in the amazing way it runs 'behind the scenes' (the 'Sun Library' is amazing! and their usability work is delightful).. but on the front end, they're sucking big time, IMHO, and I think they could be one of the next big technology fallers.
Who really cares anymore? Technically, this isn't news either. This is boring old propaganda which attempts to arouse the brainwashed masses (your typical Slashdot reader). SCO is just evil company of the month. Next month it will be Microsoft again. Just wait.
A crucifix wouldn't hurt either.
One failing company in a partnership with another failing company. Hopefully they take each other down.
With this in mind, it would be wise to look on other Sun news with suspicion. For example, they are a safe harbor. Could Sun be playing Senator Palpatine to SCO's Darth Maul and Microsoft's Trading Federation?
SUN probably wouldn't call that "without any costs what so ever".
Installed the Bubblemon yet?
I'm a long-time Sun fan. I actually bought an Ultra 10 for home use. I spent a boatload of money on Sun materials(training, documentation, upgrades). This news bothers me. How can Sun support SCO like this? I read this and I feel betrayed. How could the company I've supported for years turn out to be supporting the antichrist?
I've put all Sun projects on hold because of this. That new Blade 150? I was THIS CLOSE to buying it. No chance. Looks like Intel and a Linux vendor will get my money now.
Forgot to mention, he's also on slashdot. What a lame racist troll.
1. SCO could be picked up by Sun, since the latter has a better image in the market. That could give a boost to the battered image of SCO.
2. More and more, there seems to be some Coke-Pepsi posturing, with MS and Windows pitted against Sun& Unix. Linux is too well entrenched for such a thing to work.
3. All the firms who've picked up a stake so far in the Unix code patent have been American firms. This could be the beginning of some polarisation, where all important IP is within the US. This could have serious repercussions for firms like Fujitsu, Siemens etc. who aren't based in the US.
The saving grace: Any number of firms (SCO, Sun etc.) haven't managed to achieve a small fraction of the success which Linux has done - on the Intel platform. It appears too late now for anyone to rollback on the spectacular progress made by Linux.
If Sun does indeed pick up stakes in SCO, they'd be hated more than Microsoft - if ever that would be possible.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
That if you mention anything from Star Wars as an argument to something in the real world, the discussion must end.
But I'd go further. After the discussion ends, the person who mentions star wars is taken out back and slapped.
Present company excepted. May the force be with you.
Didnt someone important say somthing like:
I would rather give my kids drugs than have them use SCO
SUN == SCO Unix? Not
Clearly this is a Microsoft conspiracy.
Somehow.
I'll figure it out, just give me a minute.
If Sun are as bad as Microsoft, both buying junk SCO licences to fund their "kill Linux" crusade. I might as well develop apps in C# now my belief that Sun actually want to help the open source community.
Fuck Sco, Fuck Microsoft, Fuck Sun, Fuck a goat.
There is no god
I'd really like to know how SCO continues to distribute the kernel source GPL and all, and claim that code isn't covered by the GPL.
They seem to think SCO has merit because they're reserving the stock at a price, assuming it's going to shoot up (which it will, should SCO win the case).
--
Now playing: Leper Messiah (Metallica/Master of Puppets)
Think of it as open-source lawyering.
If I were a CIO or CTO debating the TCO of *nix vs. Win2K3 to a CEO, would IBM vs. SCO be the TKO that stops the CEO from approving A/P to pay my PO for RH's LGX?
0 41&cid=6232 258
FWIW, even if OSS is FAIB, if the DOJ considers *nix IP with a TM, then it basically become's SCO's LIC, meaning our OSS becomes a CSS OS, which would RSTBO.
AIBO going w/ an ASP that manages our OS? BTA, we might end up w/ a BOFH giving us ZA, which WWAD PMS.
AFAIK, INMP if SCO wants to be ITM by enforcing its supposed IPR - *nix IP should be PD or GNU, like BSD just on GP, IYKWIM. I keep asking myself in this situation - WWLD?
Oh, BTW - IITYWIMWYBMAD?
---
balls to the original:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=68
Didn't Sun announce earlier this year that they were dropping their Linux program?
Coincidence?
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
I don't think Sun's invovlment with SCO is particularly surprising - just as the MS marketing department are getting more fodder for thier battle against linux and the gpl, Sun's marketing department are getting fodder for thier battle with IBM/AIX.
As for the share options, that's like playing the lottery except that you only have buy your ticket if your numbers come up - it's highly unlikely that you're going win, but if you do you'll win big and it doesn't cost anything to play. This was probably just a little sweetener from SCO to get some extra cash in the war chest - enough to make Sun go from "That's a bit expensive for the marketing value" to "What the hell, have some cash"
Tk
At some point, somewhere, the entire internet will be found to be illegal.
Ransom Love. Nice man to work for SCO ;-)
Face it...Sun is a business, and all businesses have the number one goal of making money. Sun makes money off of proprietary software. There's no way that they will risk any of it becoming open source, unless it makes good financial sense. Jumping on the bandwagon and promising to add to Linux gave them good publicity at the time. I have no clue whether or not that move actually made them money, but it definately couldn't hurt. Fast forward a couple of years, and now it makes more financial sense to protect your source and buy code, rather then use GPLed software and be forced to release your code.
I honestly don't believe SCO has a snowball's chance in hell of winning, but there's a chance. And Sun, like any business, is looking to cash in with as little risk as possible. If that means kissing SCO's ass and throwing them some money, it's a calculated and well thought out risk. And if/when SCO get's beaten like a red-headed stepchild in court, what happens to Sun? Like Microsoft, they'll say they were protecting their interests as any business would. And people will lap it up, and their involvement in the whole thing will become a footnote in history. It will be business as usual, with the company looking at what moves will potentially make them money. If open source is where it's at again, then they'll throw some weight behind. It makes good financial sense...
Now I have 3 companies on my shit list...
SCO
Microsoft
Sun
Of course not. You'd have to know some scripting first.
Clearly, Sun is on our side.
Wow, I feel like any loyalty and good will I had toward Sun just went out the window!
I don't care if its for their shitty Intel version of Solaris, which just doesn't perform -- and doesn't have the widespread driver support -- the earlier post was correct : They could have obtained it from linux
After graduating I insisted on Sun hardware in the newco I started.
After this, I can assure you when our Enterprise Server dies, it will be replaced with an army of FreeBSD boxes (which we already run for other servers)
Good job sun -- you've soiled yourselves with the stink of the new pariah
The enemy of your enemy in this case was not your friend
I hope IBM buys your sorry assets out, because we're done with you
Old age and treachery almost always overcome youth and skill.
...that HAS to be the nerdiest post I've ever read on Slashdot!
:)
And that's quite an accomplishment, sir
ClutterMe.com - easiest site creation on the Net. Just click and type.
Which one did you just add?
This is nothing new. It only boils down to: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Microsoft and Sun don't like each other, but they have a common enemy: Linux. Thus it makes sense for them both to provide funds to SCO and help contribute to all the anti-Linux FUD. Once Linux is sufficently taken care of, Microsoft and Sun can go back to hating each other, or that's their plan anyway.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." - Oscar Wilde
Country / Prospect: We're moving towards Open Source. /Linux is enuff ro me. .... and so on. Only winner : Linux.
SCO : But Linux contains our IP! You gotts pay us money....
Prospect: I'll wait till your case against IBM is over..
Exit SCO, enter MS:
MS: We'll give you 85% discounts for our secure Windows platform...
Prospect: No thanks, I'll call you later..
Exit MS, enter Sun:
Sun: We hold all Unix rights, and SCO seems like winning the case. Better switch to Solaris - it's safer than Aix.
Prospect: What the hell, GNU
Ofcourse Intel, AMD Via and other h/w vendors who do commodity h/w - stand to make some dough.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
right up until the goat part.
From the article:
"Sun's complete line of Solaris and Linux products...are covered by Sun's portfolio of Unix licensing agreements. Solaris and Sun Linux represent safe choices for those companies that develop and deploy services based on Unix systems," Sun declared the day SCO filed suit against IBM.
Unless Sun changes the licensing terms of "Sun Linux" it's released as GPL'd code, right? Once ANYONE releases, with SCO's blessing, the "secret sauce" code as GPL it's free for everyone, right? What am I missing here?
In other news senior VP bails from SCO, demonstrating a likely opinion of advanced technologists there about the merits of the case and the future of the company.
This post was not intended to be funny, but only off topic, since I have been repeatedly unsuccessful with story submissions that actually contain significant new interesting information about the case.
That Sun was trumpetting their status as a SCO licensee of Unix in disregard for any solidarity with Unix or Linux vendors or users was obvious, and this "revelation" was not a suprise in the least. It just means that Sun gave them a small amount of money a bit more recently.
Profiting? No, what they're actually doing is telling customers (current and future) that while SCO is wielding that axe trying to find someone to hit and profit from, Sun has already got all the licenses in place (since 1994) and people with Sun products don't have to worry.
Remember, SCO is running around telling people that even buying and running Linux will get you sued. Sun's just trying to say "whoa...none of our customers are going to get sued for things they've been running for quite some time now.
What are Sun thinking?
Evidently Sun are thinking that you is a moron.
Scene: Fancy Restaurant
Enter a certain Well Known Penguin.
Waiter: Morning, welcome to the Lawsuit and Buyout Cafe, sit right here and may I take your order?
CWKP: (scanning menu) Morning! Well, what have you got?
Waiter: Well there's IBM; IBM and Redhat; IBM and SCO; IBM, Redhat and SCO; SCO, IBM, Redhat and Sun; SCO, IBM, Sun and Redhat; SCO, SCO, Redhat and SCO; SCO, SCO, SCO, and SCO;
Background voices: SCO! SCO! SCO! SCO! Lovely SCO!
Waiter: Or you can have any distro of Linux you want with a nice side of SCO.
CWKP: Do you have anything without SCO?
Waiter: Well there's SCO, Ibm, Redhat and Sun, that's not too tied up in SCO.
CWKP: You dont' understand, I don't want ANY SCO!
etc
etc
etc
etc
ad nausuem.
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
The Ransom Love Linuxworld speech where Caldera explicitly states that it is donating code to Linux so that it can scale for high-end business uses and that Caldera was committed with IBM to making Linux scale to 64-bit as part of Project Monterey and IA-64 Linux is evidence where I come from. It's evidence that SCO has filed legal documents that it knows explicitly are false.
I searched the web and found elsewhere allegations that he was probably fired for incompetency.
You are the 1-millionth poster to post that exact same point! Special kudos to the fuckwit moderators who continue to mod it up!
I'm hoping this is a troll because otherwise you are extremely sill, and not in a good way.
Who invaded Grenada, commited Iran/Contra, sold arms and chemicals to Saddam Hussein etc.
Was it America's youth?
Umm. No it wasn't. It was America's cycical oldsters.
As usual
AC
AIX itself wasn't bad, but the bank had a bad case of management consultants who told them that Sun was in fashion. Now it seems that Linux is in.
See my journal, I write things there
Step 1. Warn customers they may be using a tainted OS.
Step 2. Scare them into switching to a "non-tainted" OS (Windows/Solaris).
Step 3. Profit!!!
Sun could find that money under the cushions of their couch. This is not news.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
... RedHat (NASDAQ: RHCE) executives are reportedly uncomforable with Sun Microsystems (NASDAQ: SUN) actions.
Now... why the hell does http://wwws.sun.com/software/linux/ exist.
From the page (If you have a problem with this, I DON'T LIVE IN A COUNTRY WITH ANY KIND OF DMCA-LIKE LEGLISLATION!): "Linux from Sun is more than just an OS. Sun takes a systems approach - x86-based hardware, Red Hat Enterprise Linux and will tightly integrate with our Sun ONE product family and Java value-added software"
Now, I wonder if any Sun employees are going to act as whistle-blowers
Nah. Just to the guy standing next to him at the unemployment office.
Secondly, the SCO CEO said in an interview a while back that Sun were the only company that they considered `safe' from their IP allegations.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
All for-profit companies will ultimately become dumb and/or evil. Were we under the impression that it was otherwise? With cross licensing and horse trading over patents and IP, any rot that sets in will quickly spread to pollute everyone in what is, after all, a small and incestuous industry.
And you Red Hat users can wipe that self satisfied smirk off of your faces, because you're next. Yeah, "defensive" patents. Good job Red Hat will never run out of money or get bought out by someone less scrupulous, eh? That'll never happen, because, uh... the Magic Linux Pixies will rally round and stop it.
Look, for those not getting it, here's how it works. If you have code that you wrote with your own hands on your own time without copying anyone else, then that belongs to you. If you have code that you obtained rights to through a mutually agreed contract with a tangible transfer of benefit in the other direction, then you're probably all right in the short term - assuming that the rights belonged to whoever you obtained them from.
Under any other circumstances - open source licenses, commercial EULAs without an explicit mutual contract, code obtained from a third party, code "based on" someone else's - you're only borrowing it until the original owner wants it back, and comes knocking with his lawyers to get it. Go ahead and use it for hobby projects, but if you try and build a business on it, be aware that you're on borrowed time.
Look at it this way; if you were to buy a pure linux distributor tomorrow, what would their assets be? What do they own? Their office hardware. Their installer, maybe. The contents of their knowledge base. Their logo. Goodwill. That's it. Most Linux vendors have the same assets as Napster, i.e. a name and maybe a smattering of easily replicatable technology. They do nothing that Sun or IBM can't do bigger and better if they see the benefit to doing it.
You'd better believe that I know what I'm talking about. I work for a tech company that's set up to be sold, either as a going concern, or to one of our rivals in order to kill us (hey, the money is the same colour either way). We perform regular audits on our code base and tools to ensure that nothing - nothing - written outside the company or not unambiguously licensed through contract has got in there. As we're reminded over and over, the company is the code base. That, plus our reputation, is our sum worth, and the reputation is only a way to bring bidders to the table. The code base is the chest of gold.
Sun gets this. Microsoft gets this. IBM pretty much gets it, and is arguing out the details with SCO, who definitely get it. Upwardly mobile outfits like Red Hat get it, which is why they are desparately trying to obtain some IP leverage of their own. Little penny ante outfits (by which I mean every other linux distributor) can either get it, or get swatted when one of the big boys gets tired of them buzzing around their head.
I know that's not what linux hackers want to hear, but it's the brutal truth. Don't get too attached to any particular pure-linux distro, because their days are numbered. There might only be room for one or two linux distributors, and that might be Sun and IBM, not Mandrake and SuSE.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Linux is and will soon drive Sun out of business.
Remember that the "you" in this case was Ransom Love, who led the pre-SCO Caldera. Nobody who's at SCO now seems to have any conception of the history Caldera had with Linux. It's not clear they have much conception of the history the original SCO had with Unix, for that matter.
To the person who answered this with "And you believed this?" I'd probably say, "Sure, I believe Love meant what he said." Unfortunately, while corporations may be legal persons, they very often are legal persons with no long-term memory. (As someone pointed out, Darl McBride has claimed that SCO owns C++; while I have to give the man points for ambition, I don't think he has the faintest clue about Unix and Linux history.)
Before you read too much into this, you should read the article. Sun needed to purchase new licensing rights to some x86 drivers in order to run Solaris for Intel on their new Xeon servers. That's right, Sun now sells Xeon servers. These kind of licensing agreements happen all the time between companies that need hardware compatibility with the latest and greatest devices.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Sun purchased drivers and other stuff to use in its i86 version of Solaris,
Hmm.. So that's why slowaris on x86 is so shitty.
fucktard is a tenderhearted description
Why don't they do this? They give you operating systems on demand anyway. Part of their support is that they do that just about forever. In any case, why would they be adverse to a few free modules that work with their closed kernels? You would think Sun would be happy to have people writing software for their hardware and OS, isn't that what the Sun Community License all about?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
How can an AC whore for karma?
A warrant to buy stock at a future date is really the opposite of an investment. It's basically like an employee stock option, where the recipient (Sun) doesn't give any money to SCO unless it chooses to exercise the warrant at a later date. Sun would only exercise the warrant if the stock price of SCO had gone up enough in the mean time, and this is ultimately a money LOSING proposition for SCO, since it is handing over stock at some point in the future for lower than market value.
... SCO was basically giving Sun warrants in exchange for something else. Most likely, that "something else" was Sun's license revenue or some market/partnership deal.
This is entirely in Sun's favor and gives no money or direct benefit to SCO. It is actually a form of compensation in the opposite direction
Read the article with the Ransom Love keynote quote, but they owned the original SCO IP in question at that point. Love was specifically referring to the fact that Project Monterrey, UnixWare, and their Linux work all seemed to be in direct competition with one another.
My journal has hot
Consider that Sun bought a 300K$ license in Feb, a month or more before SCO publicly went after IBM. Sun may be entirely innocent of anti-Linux actions. Or even intent.
300K$ is chump change in corporate circles. That's less than the cost of 2 programmers for a year.
If they got options that are now worth 2 million in the process, I'd say they are good businessfolk.
That's German for "The SCO" -- a sign of support.
I would like to see SCO squashed by IBM as much as the Next person. But really SCO is still a company and it has business beyond the lawsuit, so is Sun. Most of this stuff between Sun and SCO seems like business as usual. I am sure Sun would love to Snub IBM, But I think this is mostly just dealing with licensing SCO actual IP for improvements on their own products. Companies do seem to buy other peoples stock, it called investing. You really cant expect all companies to stop dealing with SCO because they are Suing IBM and threatening Linux.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
What kind of damn name is Ransom Love???
Christ
-- A cat is no trade for integrity!
What's the chance that Sun legitimately purchased licenses for thier code development, with no malicious intent whatsoever? /. crowd sometimes forgets that not all software is free(2) and there are companies that are in the business of developing software. These companies must ensure that everything is on the up and up, and they can become severely liable if they don't do things the right way.
Sun might be just coincidentally making sure they've got all thier ducks in a row (like any other business would) indifferently/obliviously to what the SCO Circus is doing.
when doing a careful examination of the SCO Group's SEC filings, at the end of March, these people purchased at $2.07 per share:
HUNSAKER (VP SALES) purchased 100,000
MCBRIDE (CEO) purchased 200,000
OLSON (VP) purchased 50,000
BENCH (CFO) purchased 100,000
BROUGHTON (VP INT'L SALES) purchased 50,000
now, between June and July, here's more activity:
HUNSAKER sold 10,000 shares at around $11 per share,
BENCH sold 14,000 shares at around $11 per share,
OLSON sold 6000 shares at around $9 per share,
BROUGHTON sold 15,000 shares at around $11 per share.
now, things are a bit more clear, are they not? this stock is going for a plummet, and most of the officers of SCO Group knew that it was going to be a quick, PR ride to the top and back down again.
they loaded up, and let it go.
now, they were able to do this at the expense of running Linux thru the gutter a bit.
here is where this is going: i don't know much about investing, and even less about 'shorting' a stock. could someone here on Slashdot with experience perhaps give me (us?) a clue on going about this? i firmly believe that this stock is on it's way down, and it would be nice to profit a bit from all this built up anger i've had regarding this fiasco.
Actualy they were just covering their ass from a legal standpoint. I doubt they would have needed to 'pull' anything from anywhere. Solaris could probably have been rejiggered to compile on intel pretty easily, assuming it's well written, which it probably is.
Otoh, they were probably worried that SCO might try to sue them or whatever if they ported without paying them. Given their antics today, it's not unresonable
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
It's another top management scheme at Sun to buy a lot of bad publicity cheaply.
Youre making me nervous...
It's going to be very amusing someday when you free SW guys discover that IBM has been leading you around by the nose all these years and has no real commitment to your cause.
Sun made this deal before SCO whent nuts. Maybe sun knew about the plans, maybe they didn't. Maybe the deal gave the SCO guys the idea, who knows.
Then again, if SCO does manage to win, it will be a huge boon for Solaris, as it will be the only unix available that dosn't suck. OTOH, it will severly limit their options in the future, and the computer industry in general.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I used to work for Sun. Loved the company, loved what they stood for, felt like I should have been paying them for the privilege of coming to work every day. Truly my dream job. I'm a major Linux bigot, but that didn't stop me from loving Solaris and loving Sun.
5 years later, the bloom pretty much faded from the rose. Sun made a lot of stupid decisions and strictly in my *opinion* started behaving unethically. They began to reap what they sowed, and the current sad state of affairs at SUNW is a reflection of their abandonment of core Sun ideals. I don't think it's wrong to use ethics as a measuring stick for your business decisions, but I seemed to be in the minority.
I think this SCO deal is a reflection of the 'new Sun' and an example of everything that is wrong with the company currently. I mourn the loss of the old Sun, and I mourn the impending death of a giant, for I truly believe that Sun is destined for failure if they continue along the current path.
I used to respect and admire Scott McNealy for his willingness to take a stand and fight for what he thought was right, but somehow along the way Sun leadership no longer does this... they instead hedge their bets, play both sides of the fence, and refuse to stick to their guns on anything when push comes to shove.
I was one of the many thousands of engineers who got laid off from Sun in the last few years. I did well while I was there, did everything that I thought was humanly possible to ensure Sun's success despite the odds, and I'm sorry to see them fall. I still truly believe that Sun has the potential to regain their dominance in both the market and mindshare, but unfortunately they got rid of all the people who had the intestinal fortitude to make a stand for what they believe in instead of what was politically expedient.
Sun hardware kicks ass, plain and simple. Solaris is a damned good OS, but no longer the far and away market leader that it used to be. Can it be again? Who knows... I believe that it could given the right attitude and resources but again, that's just a personal opinion. I think Sun could do extremely well partnered with the Linux community (like IBM is doing) instead of being an adversary to it.
Am I bitter? I'm not bitter about losing my job to economic forces, and I'm not angry towards Sun, nor do I wish them failure. I truly enjoyed working there and would work there again if I felt that they were willing to commit to what it takes to succeed. I'd work until my fingernails bled to help them achieve that, but I don't see them even acknowledging the issues and problems they face, let alone actively striving to correct them. I don't think that makes me bitter, only honest.
I only hope that Sun some day wakes up, yanks back on the control yoke and comes out of their tailspin before it's too late. Things like this SCO business aren't helping them at all and they are too shortsighted and stubborn to admit it.
-- Gary F. (who refuses to post as an AC)
If I own some code, I can GPL it, but you can't. Not that these people arn't full of shit on the details, mind you.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I'll have a large fresh-squeezed orange juice, thanks.
Chances of IBM cancelling their AIX business are right up there with the SCO suit being cancelled because all SCO lawyers are automatically put on the CIA license to kill list.
I believe the point was just because one official from SCO makes a statement, doesn't mean another official is going to "remember" those promises. Of course, that does miss the point. If SCO does something, it still remains an action with legal repercussions no matter what the current leadership believes or remembers.
We knew about this 1 month back.
Sun seeks to capitalize on SCO suit
By Alorie Gilbert
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
June 18, 2003, 1:46 PM PT
Sun Microsystems launches an ad campaign on Wednesday that highlights IBM's licensing dispute with SCO Group and encourages its rival's customers to switch to Sun's computing platform.
The print ad, which ran in The Wall Street Journal and The San Jose Mercury News, was addressed to organizations running AIX, IBM's version of the Unix operating system. In an ongoing dispute over intellectual-property rights to Unix, SCO said Monday that it has revoked IBM's license to sell AIX and requested a permanent injunction against IBM's Unix business.
Sun, on the other hand, has said it would not be affected by SCO's legal claims on Unix, because it bought its Unix license outright several years ago.
"Unfortunately, our friends in Blue have a problem with licensing contracts that could make things very expensive for anyone running AIX," the ad says. "Fortunately, Sun is ready to help."
As part of the campaign, Sun is offering two days of free consulting and a "trade-in" on IBM servers for companies that are interested in switching to Sun Solaris, its competing Unix server program. Sun will determine the trade-in value of any IBM systems that it replaces after the two-day assessment, a Sun representative said.
SCO has said that the termination of the AIX license means that IBM Unix customers also have no license to use the software. But IBM, which is fighting allegations by SCO that it misappropriated SCO's Unix trade secrets and built them into Linux, maintains that its license to sell Unix products is valid and that customers should not be alarmed. IBM sold $3.6 billion worth of Unix servers last year.
"IBM remains firmly committed to AIX and its customers," said Trink Guarino, an IBM spokeswoman. "Our customers know that we'll stand by them--that we'll continue to invest in and ship AIX."
Sun Chief Executive Scott McNealy told a group of journalists in Stockholm on Tuesday that IBM's legal skirmish with SCO could help boost Sun's Unix business. "There's no question we're going to go after the AIX base and say Solaris is free and clear, with no legal or intellectual cloud hanging over it," McNealy was reported to have said.
Sun spokesman Mark Richardson said he doesn't expect the AIX migration program to be a "huge" revenue source for Sun because of the high cost often involved in such projects. "I doubt that tons of companies will do it, but for companies concerned, it is an alternative," he said.
Could someone please point to which filing? The C|Net article (published July 10) claims it was filed Tuesday (July 8th?). I can't seem to find any mention of Sun in any of these.
SEC filings here http://ir.sco.com/edgar.cfm
Well, I think it's time we all know who the bad guys are in this.
The bad guys, in order of badness.
SCO - For trying to kill Linux.
SUN - For supporting this.
MSFT - Usual Suspect
SUSE - Surprise! I have no idea what they are doing here, but the talk goes the their alliance with SCO would let them become a SCO Unix distributor once Linix is killed.
There you. Now you know the bad guys.
...which means I'll never buy their products and/or services.
Sun has always been a fair weather friend to Linux. I know they donated a lot of code to Linux, but their motives have always seemed rather suspicious to me. Their kindness is always tempered with a distain for what Open Source hopes to achieve. Perhaps they are correctly reading the tea leaves and realize that an Open Source world will not make them one penny, but their schizophrenic attitude toward Linux has always bothered me.
I take this latest disclosure as more proof that Sun does not have the interest of the Open Source Community at heart. I don't trust them, I won't buy from them, and I am actively working to replace every one of our Sun workstations and servers at work with commodity PCs running Linux.
I hope Sun sets for good.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
What's the fun in that. This is slashdot. Getting a +5 Insightful on a topic without reading the article, now that's a worthy challenge.
My photolog
It works if you reply to this.
Just because Sun has a viable excuse for giving SCO money, doesn't mean they did it without the knowledge that they were bankrolling a harassment lawsuit aganst the Linux community. With Sun's new advertising campaign aimed directly at IBM's Linux efforts, I think it has become pretty clear that Sun not only knew about the lawsuit, they in fact obtained this license in direct support of this lawsuit. I, for one, will have nothing more to do with the company financially.
Even if Windows gets pushed completely out of the market thats really no problem for Redmond because Microsoft Linux would be the new standard.
Microsoft won't lose; Even if Unix wins.
I'm getting more and more of a picture of McNealy and Ballmer cooking this whole thing up over a beer.
...get off the boss's computer, their's someone at the drive thru window...
IBM is moving off of AIX. This argument is moot. Of course IBM will support their legacy AIX customers for a long time, but they will move everything to Linux. Now is Sun so stupid for trying to take advantage of a competitors bad situation? To go along with that bad situation is the need to transition to something else no matter what.
You are pathetic. You are going to make a purely techincal decision with your heart. If your Sun hardware sucks, dump it. But if you are mad at Sun for using a situation to its advantage against a competitor then you are an idiot. Sun's job is to compete and win. Simple as that. What did you expect them to do? They are not being anti-competitive, they are not breaking the law.
Let me ask you: Are you planning on dumping any and all Microsoft software?
What kind of competition does Sun have? Consider IBM's p690 and HP's Superdome. Both are in a neck-to-neck race to be #1 on the internationally recognized TPC-C benchmark by the Transaction Processing Council. Both of their scores is about 750,000. Please read "IBM touts own chips over Itanium". By contrast, Sun's best score is about 250,000 (from the TPC website).
As for SPEC performance, the p690 and the Superdome again crush Sun's best machine.
The only thing left for Sun is to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD). Sun is hinting that it will soon slit IBM's jugular vein by hinting that Sun may purchase SCO. After all, SCO claims control over IBM's UNIX patents. Sun is trying to create the fear that future IBM customers may be in expensive legal trouble if they run AIX or Linux because Sun-controlled SCO has terminated its UNIX licensing agreement with IBM.
Do you hear "it"? The bell is tolling. It tolls ominously for Sun.
I'm surprised we haven't heard anything yet from IBM... I mean, is an army massing behind the walls, or are they still in bed yawning before breakfast?
Scott McNealy turned out to be a SCOmbag.
After all what else could he be?
Check the first 3 letters in his name S C O !
As the old Adage says, "better to have him in the tent pissing out, that outside pissing in"
He will with 100% certainty be on the list of witnesses in this case and firing him not is plain stupid. Keeping him on board would cost very little compared with the "cost" of his testimony.
Most likely he was the guy that authorized the "donation" of SCO code from his department to the Linux Kernel (if any). Most likely, the "letting go" of Opinder is part of a strategy to charging him with MisConduct later, maybe even claiming he was in collusion with IBM as he most certainly had a fair amount of contacts during the Monterey days. They can't really fo this while employed.
FYI, Here is his educational background
Bawa holds a bachelor's degree in Computer Science from City University of New York and a master's degree in Business and Information Technology from University of Phoenix.
Help fight continental drift.
Please FOAD.
Thanks so much.
Bye, now...
Here is a SCO IP trial summation fantasy for fun.
( SCOs legal teams summation ) 'In conclusion your Honor we at SCO believe that all advanced computing technology throughout the entire world should pay licensing fees to the original patent holders of the C computer language. You have the demonstrated proof of the non-licenced illegal use of C languages and their derivatives by the Plaintiffs. (the courts eyes glare at Linus and Richard in particular) We have proved our ownership to the origins and Patents of C computer language.'
(Judge Harry B. Mean in reply after consideration and much vodka, and other lubrication) 'It is the ruling of this court that, hence forth; All computer software written in any language resembling C or any derivative of said language C using the Patented precepts of C and its' derivatives will require verifiable Licensing from the Intellectual Property holder SCO. And furthermore any sub-set language, operating system, compiler or program that uses C code will not be permitted to disclose code that might expose the original IP C code source. The damages will be assesed at future trials with appropriate motivation..... (judge Harry and a flock of Lawyers hold out their hands to get greased).
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
that amount is like 1% of SCO. This is a pretty standard warrant deal.
exactly! and the timing... they made the deal in February... just before this suit.
Sun does not want to give into the linux way, which is funny because it's a direct result of their unix strategy from the begining, that is, the open nature of unix even proprietary implimentations.
It's a lot like Microsoft in my eyes... they benefit from an open system (the PC architecture in Microsoft's case) but then suddenly, billions of dollars later that's not a good idea.
Who wants a meritocracy when they are already at the top.
Of course, in Sun's case it's idiotic, the whole unix world is going away unless linux makes it. Sun has more to lose holding on to their last candles than they do wading into linux land.
-pyrrho
Enlighten us with the reason this is relevant to the topic at hand. Please.
>Second ... I know who's side Sun is on. Sun's side. Period.
I'm not sure they are doing what is in their best interest in all this. I remember in the 80's it was said that Sun chose Unix because it was open, cross compiling would be possible, it was adopting standards because that's good engineering. Linux would fit this strategy. And if it's not as good as Solaris, which it isn't by a long shot, then Solaris still sticks around. But the original Sun, I think, was hoping for something like linux. But as they say, "it's good to be the king."
btw, regarding best interest... what is Sun's possible best interest in Java. Sun is a hardware company, frankly I'm not so impressed with Java-the-OOP-purist wet-dream.
Ooops, slipped off into rantland... excuse me... my real question was not about Java's merits, but HOW does Java ever make money for Sun? I feel the same way about them killing linux. It might sound good short term, but is it... any business lost to linux surely was about to be lost to Windows!
If any unix company wants to kill linux it is killing unix. Unix will not be here in 50 years if it's only available as a very expensive system ala the 1980-2000 model. Intel and even Windows will catch up. Get commodotized. That is the only option. You can let Windows do it do you, or you can let linux do it. It's is obvious to me that it's better for any unix programmer or hardware engineer if linux does it. (I say obvious, but don't think I don't know I could be wrong).
Sun you are not a software company, Solaris notwithstanding. It's a wonder OS. I love it. Keep it around. But you also need to promote linux for your own long term survival. Then you can sell hardware differentiated by the hardware spec, and extend linux to take advantage of your hardware. Yes... other's will get those changes in certain circumstances... but they still won't be making Sun hardware, so your product is still differentiated. IBM sees this, but since Solaris is considered best of breed, it's easier for IBM to say "we don't sell machines because of AIX anyway, it's hardware and support", but indeed it's the same with Solaris however it seems.
I think tech companies have a really painful time finding out how quickly technological properties can depreceate, and the companies seem often to slam into the ground instead of give them up. Big Tech companies have a way of evaporating more than other big companies, it seems to me.
-pyrrho
For me, that would be the equivalent of dinner and a movie, not a new home in the Hollywood hills and a new Hummer.
Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
"All Publicity is Bad Publicity"
-pyrrho
between this, Java, and our Ultra "hardware failure" 10, I've fallen out of love in the last couple years.
sad isn't it.
[turns to machine] I still love YOU though bessie!
-pyrrho
you know what... it's important. It's true. It's was true. It's still true. You're still an idiot as well.
I think the february deal right before the case makes it MORE suspect. And so do the stock options. It's not common to buy these kinds of rights with stock option deals... that's a bet on SCO's future, made right before the coming case went PUBLIC. We would have to assume at least SCO knew at the time the case was imminent. It looks to me like Sun did too.
And no, I'm not a paranoid kid or linux fanman, I'm just a regular cynic.
-pyrrho
Here is another article that just came out regarding the SUNW/SCOX partnership. It offers more silly quotes from SCO's Blake Stowell whining that IBM "is continuing to ship AIX, and ignoring the fact that we've terminated their rights to it." Poor little SCO! Mean IBM is ignoring them!
The circumstances about the CTO leaving has higher information value as it gives some insight into the strategy and thinking inside SCO.
The Yahoo thread referenced has a Anonomyous Poster stating the guy is so incompetent he would not even recognise the Language the code was written in. It was in refererence to that I Googled to see what education the guy had.
I will venture that this is not the last we hear of this, I expect the guy to go public if he really resigned.
Help fight continental drift.
Well that is debatable. Any software that is derived from GPL'd code must be put under the GPL license. The question is: If your code links to a piece of GPL'd code does that mean that the GPL'd code has become part of it and therefore your code is derived from the GPL'd code?
Drivers must link with the kernel so most feel that they must be GPL'd. There are companies that put out proprietary drivers NVIDIA etc. If you use these drivers they "taint" your kernel. Most people don't care.
I am of the opinion that exceptions need to be made for drivers. If the Linux community wants companies to support their kernels then we need to allow proprietary drivers to link with the kernel.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
somebody give me GOD status please http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=67707&cid=6204 785
Personally I suspect this whole thing is a misjudgement on Sun's part. They weighed the threat to an innocent third party against the direct threat of FUD against their own product, and saw the immediate and obvious direction to go in. Tough crap on them of course, they'd better do something to undo the damage or pretty much the entire *ix tech world is going to give them the finger. And that really will be a threat to their bottom line.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Is it just me or does it seem more and more like SCO is Wyile E. Coyote (Sooper Genius!), and the Acme lawyers are strapping rollerskates and jet pack to him saying "don't worry this is all you'll need to catch that speedy little devil, IBM" ???
Why would Sun be interested in options listed for $1.83 when SCO was trading for a buck. Before SCOs IBM lawsuit anouncement, they were just another Unix has been like Sun. The chances of pumping their stock without this suit is somewhere between nil and f##kall. The graphs also show some other clear signs of insider trading just before the anouncement, but this deal with Sun is rather blatant.
When SUN was just a start-up they had to pay millions in royalties to IBM for copyright infrigement or be taken to court and wiped off the face of the earth.
Maybe SUN want their money back??
You bought her a Kentucky Fried Chicken Franchise!!!
That's nuts. Next SCO will claim ownership of the internet and sue Al Gore for inventing it.
My sig will be released in 2015 third quarter. Rating pending.
$1.83? Is it worth that much?
ALL YOUR SCO ARE BELONG TO US
This sig no verb.
As someone pointed out, Darl McBride has claimed that SCO owns C++
Okay, that does it. I just wrote a destructor for the McBride class, and I'm gonna use it.
Look at MITS 1976 ...2001
Look at CP/M 1978
Look at Data General 1979
Look at Tandem 1980
Look at Honeywell 1981
Look at Atari 1982
Look at Quarterdeck 1983
Look at Wordstar 1984
Look at Ashton-Tate 1985
Look at Apollo 1986
Look at GEM 1987
Look at Intergraph 1988
Look at Sony NeWS 1989
Look at OS/2 1990
Look at SNK 1991
Look at Interactive TV 1992
Look at OS/2 1993
Look at Compuserve/The Well/Prodigy 1994
Look at Virtual Reality 1995
Look at Windows CE 1996
Look at dot com 1997
Look at 1998-dot com bubble
Now, what will go in for 2001,2002,2003? Who knows. Maybe Linux, maybe Windows, maybe Mac. Yates said it nicely, "The center will not hold, things fall apart". Empires are crumbling before our eyes.
Everyone predicts the future but nobody gets it right
That's a grossly incorrect statement. Linking to anything GPL causes you to open it up, besides the other requirements of the GPL itself. Repeat after me: Distributing a GPL product, mods or not, does not absolve you from the other requirements of the GPL!
Without knowing how x86 Solaris is architected, I wouldn't be game to bet on such a thing. And I guess someone as big (and conservative) as Sun does some pretty detailed cost and risk analysis "OK, we could rearchitect the way we load drivers, but that's going to break everything and cost more than licensing it from SCO".
So does Anonymous Coward have good karma?
Slackware, what else when it must be secure, stable, and easy?
The shame are with SCOtt McNealy and his idiots making a bitch of the cute blonde! What an example of mismanagement and ruining a company once was at the cutting edge. Where could 'she' still be if another management had some understanding what's going on, where when they would understand Linux and Free Software/Open Source? Where could Java and Solaris be if they were really open? What a lot of this nice Xeon boxes could they selling with GNU/Linux? What a shame!
According to Thomas Bushnell, BSG, the primary architect of the Hurd:
`Hurd' stands for `Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons'. And, then, `Hird' stands for `Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth'. We have here, to my knowledge, the first software to be named by a pair of mutually recursive acronyms.--
Bullshit friend; read up on marketing, decisions are emotional and only later justified by reason.
Ladies and gentlemen...
Sun's business model is broken.
It does not make sense anymore.
They're living in times of desperation...Like a drowning victim striking out wildly trying to prevent the inevitable.
Their cost structure is WAY too high. They develop operating systems and microprocessors internally. Their competitors do not. These two components are commodities! They should not be internally developing these components any more than they should be internally developing DRAM chips. It is hideously expensive. Comparable solutions are available off the shelf.
Dell and IBM will continue to eat Sun's lunch until they die. Standard components for servers are the way of the future.
Standardized components are moving their way up the enterprise stack.
Standardized components break Sun's business model. You heard it here...Sun is doomed. Get in while the gettin's good and short the stock.
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