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Diamonds & the RIAA

eaglebtc writes "After reading the previously-posted article on cdfreaks.com about the rapid erosion of cheap CDR's, I found another equally scintillating write-up about the economics of music CDs written by Richard Menta, founder of MP3 Newswire. Sure, we've all heard the whining about how CDs are so expensive, but Mr. Menta takes a unique perspective on the issue by comparing the RIAA to DeBeers. He argues that both companies control distribution of products in their respective markets with an iron fist, and by so doing can artificially raise prices. Coincidentally, the bubble is beginning to burst in both markets: the RIAA is fighting against the uprisings of P2P software, and the diamond cartel's lawyers are losing sleep over the $5 diamonds produced in a lab."

133 of 739 comments (clear)

  1. The names may change, but by teamhasnoi · · Score: 4, Funny
    no matter. DeBeers will try and lobby a solution to protect their market.

    If that doesn't work, I predict that your fiance will be expecting a new 'Mars rock' ring, and NASA will finally be able to finance that trip to the moon they've been faking^W talking about.

    1. Re:The names may change, but by the+MaD+HuNGaRIaN · · Score: 5, Informative

      Diamonds in jewelry are overrated any way.
      There are much prettier stones available, many with cool characteristics

    2. Re:The names may change, but by Hogwash+McFly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep, you're right, they are overrated for what you're actually paying for. Try telling the girlfriend or the wife that though. They don't give a shit about corrupt, murderous, exploitative companies they just want that fucking iceberg on their finger so they can one-up their girl friends in the coffee house. It's a sad sad situation.

      --
      Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
    3. Re:The names may change, but by Planesdragon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Try telling the girlfriend or the wife that though. They don't give a shit about corrupt, murderous, exploitative companies they just want that fucking iceberg on their finger so they can one-up their girl friends in the coffee house. It's a sad sad situation.

      Wait... you mean that you'd marry a girl like that?

      Damn.

      For the record, my wife doesn't even like diamonds. :) And if I told her all the @#$ that DeBeers does, she'd probably spread it like hot gossip.

    4. Re:The names may change, but by EnderWiggnz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      amen, brother... if you choose to marry a girl, choose wisely.

      --
      ... hi bingo ...
    5. Re:The names may change, but by alcmena · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Odd, I told my fiance that very thing. She completely agreed. I let her pick out her ring and she immediately went for a beautiful amethyst one. It is prettier and a heck of a lot cheaper than a diamond. The fact that it doesn't come with the baggage of a diamond was only a plus.

    6. Re:The names may change, but by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 2, Interesting

      heh, my girlfriend likes emeralds, and not the lab-created ones. If you haven't checked lately, emeralds tend to be more expensive (and it's sometimes harder to find good jewelery containing them) than diamonds. That being said, she couldn't actually tell the difference between a lab-created and natural emerald unless someone told her, except that she believes that certain characteristics only exist in lab-created emeralds (and she's wrong).

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    7. Re:The names may change, but by randyest · · Score: 4, Funny

      so then, if you choose to marry a boy, any one will do? ;)

      --
      everything in moderation
    8. Re:The names may change, but by pmz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Uh. HOWTO would be appreciated.

      We knew eachother for years before we got married. We are best friends, and jewelry is hardly high on our list of priorities. We'd rather spend the money on a dishwasher or furniture, anyway.

      How is that so hard? Romantic idealism is overrated, IMO. I think long-term happiness is more easily obtained by fiscal responsibility, for example, than credit-supported fantasy. Perhaps I sound like an old fart, but that's just how I am.

    9. Re:The names may change, but by derch · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're verging on incoherent, but you're looking for a place where there are women (*ahem* not girls) who don't like diamonds and/or who would reject a diamond because of its surrounding politics?

      Try any of the following:
      1) Local chapter of ACLU
      2) Local Amnestry group
      3) Local artist or arts school
      4) Any town with a healthy population of liberals

      It really says something about Slashdot that a moderater scored you as 'Insightful.' Such a sad, sad group of boys.

      Oo! Oo! Or you could try explaining your position to your fiancee. I recall learning somewhere that women are people who are as intelligent as guys. Assuming you're an intelligent guy, one would hope your fiancee is at least as intelligent as you are, and would share your concerns over blood diamonds.

    10. Re:The names may change, but by arnie_apesacrappin · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Did you see Bill Maher's newest comedy special? In it he discusses the methods used by the controlling groups in Africa to keep the villagers in the mines. He said that they go as far as to cut off the arms of small children to keep the adults working.

      He then recounts the time he told this to one of his female friends. He describes her as one of the nicest people you could ever meet. After telling her that the soldiers/work masters actually cut off the arms of small children, she made a sad face and said, "Both arms?"

      That shows you the power of diamonds.

      --

      Still, with a plan, you only get the best you can imagine. I'd always hoped for something better than that. -CP

    11. Re:The names may change, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny
      Try any of the following:
      1) Local chapter of ACLU
      2) Local Amnestry group
      3) Local artist or arts school
      4) Any town with a healthy population of liberals


      Maybe it's just me, but I assumed the original poster also wanted his potential fiancee to be intelligent and personable.
    12. Re:The names may change, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Try any of the following:
      1) Local chapter of ACLU
      2) Local Amnestry group
      3) Local artist or arts school
      4) Any town with a healthy population of liberals
      I have to say I disagree. People who alude themselves towards things socially recognised as empathetic are seldom of any such inclination themselves, but are trying to advance their position. If you want to meet a person who is genuine, look to places where both the rednecks and 'social liberals' dare not tread, such as Latin class.
    13. Re:The names may change, but by TrevorB · · Score: 3, Funny

      I just wondered what the reaction would be if I got a baby seal head stuffed and mounted on a ring, and wear it around on my hand, saying "Look what I got! Is isn't it gorgeous! And it's so big!

      Would get a little heavy after a while.

    14. Re:The names may change, but by pmz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's always this thin line of trust/mistrust between a guy and a girl.

      If there's a trust boundary in a relationship, I'd consider that a warning sign. I know people who seriously say things like "never get married without a pre-nup", but I never quite understood this. Getting joint accounts and dual-name titles on property is just a no-brainer for me (it makes a will much easier...it also helps keep nursing homes from robbing me blind if I ever end up in one). If a marriage with a pre-nuptual agreement starts out with some expectation for failure and divorce, doesn't that seem to be a prediction rather than a contingency?

    15. Re:The names may change, but by jcoleman · · Score: 2, Informative

      Have you ever priced an alexandrite ring? Diamonds are cheaper. WAY cheaper. Of course, there is always synthetic alexandrite...but then we are back to the fake thing again...

    16. Re:The names may change, but by PMuse · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wait... you mean that you'd marry a girl like that?

      What^H^H^H^H One thing a woman wants is to feel that her man values her more highly than all other things. And she needs a proof of this that is unambiguous and readily demonstrable to her friends/family. Jewelry serves this function well, since (1) the man gets no utility from it, (2) it not a dual-use item that might have been bought for its practical value, (3) it is portable.

      A second thing a woman wants, in addition to knowing her man places a high relative value on her, is that she has a high absolute value. Jewelry readily demonstrates by its price just how much means her man possesses and that his means are at her disposal.

      Why diamonds as opposed to other jewelry? Why, marketting, of course.

      --
      "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
    17. Re:The names may change, but by PMuse · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Money isn't everything. But men and women are alike on this point: Every one of us, if given a choice between two identical mates, one rich, the other poor, will take the rich one.

      It's how alike they have to be before money becomes the deciding factor that measures the difference between a mercenary and a saint.

      --
      "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
    18. Re:The names may change, but by Snodgrass · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's exactly the stone my wife picked out. Not only is it less money than a diamond, but all of her diamond wearing friends talk about her ring more than theirs, because it's so unique.

      As an aside, alexandrite turns a sweet orangish-red under a black light. Very cool.

    19. Re:The names may change, but by Casca · · Score: 4, Funny

      Those are all excellent places to try, except all those girls already have girlfriends.

      --
      Casca
    20. Re:The names may change, but by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "Wait... you mean that you'd marry a girl like that?"

      Yes, I would, if I loved her for other reasons. Not everybody has to share the exact same social/economic/political agenda as you to be compatible with you. Nor is it your place to pass judgement on those people. It is not really a persons fault if they grow up in a society....nay....a WORLD where diamonds are considered rare and wonderous things. Granted, the rare bit is now known to be false, but there is still a social value given to diamonds. It is not so much the rarity of the diamonds....it is that the man who buys his woman a bigger rock has more money, and is thus better able to provide for her.

      When women brag about their ring to their friends, its not about the rock itself, as I'm sure you are aware. They are merely bragging about their husband. While their basis for such bragging may be misguided, you should not fault them for being so happy with the person they are marrying that they want to show them off. Now, to be fair, there are certainly those women out there who only care about the size of the rock, and about where they rest in the social pecking order. And I would never come near a girl like that. But you should not fault the rest.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    21. Re:The names may change, but by Planesdragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One thing a woman wants is to feel that her man values her more highly than all other things. And she needs a proof of this that is unambiguous and readily demonstrable to her friends/family.

      My woman, and most of them women I know, are perfectly capable of defending their choice of mate to their friends and family. They tend to value loyalty, apparant friendlyiness, and their affect on the woman more than the man's material wealth.

      And, with a median household income in the US of about $50,000, most women will probably be able to think of a better use for $12,500 than buying a diamond. Their own car, a down payment on a house--even their wedding or a spree of their own.

      IMO, if the woman (and her family) can't grasp the "DeBeers is a cruel monopoly, I'm not buying a DeBeers diamond, what else would you like?" logic, then the marriage simply won't last.

    22. Re:The names may change, but by Corporal+Dan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nope. Spoke to a few females at the ivy league university I graduated from about what they thought about the diamond trade. Though liberal and intelligent, their minds would shut off if diamonds were even mentioned. "Diamonds are forever," was recited to me time and time again.

      You are vastly underestimating the desire of females to have the *perfect* wedding, and that includes diamonds, no matter what.

  2. waah? by EMH_Mark3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wow! The guy must be a genius to see the similarity between the two!!

    --
    Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me
  3. What to get that special someone by pagluy · · Score: 5, Funny

    The latest Metallica wrapped in a box of of lab fabricated diamonds. Total cost? $100 Having your headbanging girlfriend love you forever? Priceless

  4. Labor Of Love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    $5 diamonds shouldn't be a threat. You can already get cheap crystals that look as good (or better) than diamonds. The whole point of diamonds is their expensiveness itself. Your bride wants you to spend a lot of money committing to her so she can trust you: she wants to know that you'll be around to help raise the kid before she accepts your seed. Cheap diamonds completely miss the point.

    If guys start wedding gals using cheap diamonds, then chicks will just find a new tool with which to implement Expensive Labor of Love strategy.

    1. Re:Labor Of Love by spencerogden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, but diamonds weren't super popular even 50 years ago, people still got married.

    2. Re:Labor Of Love by Gothmolly · · Score: 5, Funny

      I've had plenty of chicks ready and willing to accept my seed after $10 worth of cheap vodka. All you diamond buyers are suckers.

      --
      I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    3. Re:Labor Of Love by MKalus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah well, not being from the US (North America)I never quite understood that tradition, for ten grand I knew better things to do than buy a ring.

      But then that's just me (and pretty much anybody else I know who didn't grow up in the US / Canada).

      --
      If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
    4. Re:Labor Of Love by oliphaunt · · Score: 5, Funny

      What I'd like to see is a return to the days where women came with a dowry. Yes, I'll still buy her a ring that costs $X,000 and her parents will still spend $YZ,000 on a fancy wedding- but they will also give ME a check for $50,000 because they don't have to support her any longer.

      Or if not a check, at least some cattle or some other form of livestock.

      If the engagement ring is two months' salary, the dowry should be 20% of the value of the parents' net worth.

      --




      Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
    5. Re:Labor Of Love by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you look at the history of the 'tradition' it wasn't started to make sure they guy had money/commitment, it was a marketing ploy by the diamond insdustry. That whole 'three month's salary' stuff is just a load of crap to make these bastards rich. Point is there really is no long standing diamond giving tradition, and the only thing backing up that 'tradition' is marketing. A $5 diamond can be marketed as well as a $15,000 one.

      And besides, have you ever been married? With or without diamond wives freakin' expensive!

      --
      Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    6. Re:Labor Of Love by robnit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmm. Which came first - "Women want you to buy an expensive diamond" or "Debeers says women want an expensive diamond" ? -robnit

    7. Re:Labor Of Love by wwest4 · · Score: 3, Funny

      yeah, because the whole point of getting married, for men, is in-house pussy.

      sheesh.

    8. Re:Labor Of Love by wwest4 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      a lot of parents still so this (at least, where i'm from) in a less formal sense, if they can afford it - a plot of land, a hand-me-down car, expensive-but-necessary gifts, etc.

      heck, i know a couple who earn half of what i do but live at a much higher standard due to in-law support.

    9. Re:Labor Of Love by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 5, Informative
      "Yeah well, not being from the US (North America)I never quite understood that tradition, for ten grand I knew better things to do than buy a ring."

      The DeBeers marketing campaigns are brilliant. If you are exposed to them from a young age and see fictional weddings on TV and how they focus on the ring, you will understand. It is ground into North American minds from the very beginning. Most people in North America know what I'm talking about when I refer to the "A Diamond is Forever Music."

    10. Re:Labor Of Love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For the record I am a girl, recently proposed to, who didn't ask for a diamond. In fact, I specifically asked that if he strongly desired to spend an outrageous amount of money on me, he could put a downpayment on a house, though I told him neither was neccessary. If a woman "wants you to spend a lot of money committing to her so she can trust you" you may want to reevaluate your relationship. Money doesn't equal love. Demonstrating knowledge of a woman's likes and dislikes (i.e. making her favorite meal for her, writing her a love song if she's into that sort of thing) is just as romantic, and in my opinion far better than throwing down a wad of cash at the jewelry store.

      PS: My last boyfriend proposed with a very large diamond ring and I turned him down. The fact that he would get that for me was the final and quite a major signal that he didn't know much about me at all.

    11. Re:Labor Of Love by firippu · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The engagment ring my father gave to my mom came from a "bubble gum" vending maching. Even though they divorced 20 some years ago, to the day that ring is still my mother's favorite... the diamond rings sit untouched... Diamond rings coming to signify value/love/stability is one of the greatest illusions ever placed before us... Its also quite a cultural phenomena... Us *intelligent* *western* cultures favor this mass marketing ploy like without questioning it the slightest. Any woman that judged me on the size/quality/price of a rock could never get my seed...

    12. Re:Labor Of Love by MKalus · · Score: 2, Funny

      MMMhh, so it is Hollywood + DeBeers + Hallmark == Evil Empire?

      And there I thought it was Microsoft ;)

      I told a girl once, while living in the States, the only thing she could expect from me is an onion ring, after all it at least has nutrional value.

      --
      If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
    13. Re:Labor Of Love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually the point of marrige for men is to guarantee the lineage of their children and to a lessor degree provide a legal framework for delegation and protection of decision making.

      But I bet, oh what's the divorce rate now?, at least a significant proportion of men get married because they've got the notion it will provide them with a reliable source of poon.

      And the point of engagement rings, has always been, and still is, to entice the woman into giving it up before marrige. But they got their start in an age when chastity had value, which it no longer does, so now it's simply goods for sex. Or prostitution.

      DeBeer's knows women are for the most part whores, and men will pay for sex. Women know this too, so they and the religious nuts have colluded to artificially manipulate not the supply, or the price of "the sticky little kitten," but the reliability of that supply. Dasterdly. (We all know about conditioning, and how people will consistantly go back to reliably unreliable sources.) They created the poon futures market that DeBeer's is so dominant in.

      I don't know about you. But, not that I want to be a father (God that would be a mess.) but if I wanted my daughter to be chaste, I'd just buy her a lot of diamonds. Train her to confuse lavish gifts with love. At some point hormones alcohol and the typical excesses of youth would take over, but demonstrations of love by would-be suitors that she would deem appropriate would probably be pretty few and far between.

    14. Re:Labor Of Love by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 2, Funny
      "MMMhh, so it is Hollywood + DeBeers + Hallmark == Evil Empire"

      Axis of Evil ;-)

    15. Re:Labor Of Love by Idarubicin · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Most people in North America know what I'm talking about when I refer to the "A Diamond is Forever Music."

      If anyone is curious, the composer of the "Diamond Music" (official title, Shadows) is Karl Jenkins. Based on that commissioned work, Jenkins has constructed a three-movement suite called Palladio. More information here. Palladio appears on a Sony Classical recording aptly titled (in the U.S.) Diamond Music.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    16. Re:Labor Of Love by Syrrh · · Score: 2, Funny

      Consumer, report yourself to mental reprogramming IMMEDIATELY.

      Next thing we know, you'll be basing your ring-buying habits on something outrageous like appearance. Who wants a tasteful, personalized piece when you could spend an equal fortune on an enourmous 4-carat that looks like a big shiny fishing lure?

    17. Re:Labor Of Love by DickBreath · · Score: 4, Funny

      The whole point of diamonds is their expensiveness itself. Your bride wants you to spend a lot of money committing to her so she can trust you: she wants to know that you'll be around to help raise the kid before she accepts your seed. Cheap diamonds completely miss the point.

      Talk about illogical nonsense.

      If you spend a fortune on a diamond so that you can be in the poor house when it comes to raising the kids, does this make sense? Or would you rather have a $5 piece of rock and lots of other money to invest in raising offspring.

      (Personal opinion follows, not for flames...) This is the kind of thinking I expect from females. It is part of their master plan to remove all joy from the universe.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    18. Re:Labor Of Love by Ominous+Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      DeBeers. They captured the south African diamond market early last century, and then gave diamonds to famous actresses to make them more popular. They had a hard-driving advertising campaign that continues to this day, but in the 1800s and before, diamond wedding rings were nearly unheard of.

      Seriously, other gems really are much prettier. Diamonds aren't even "forever". They can be incinerated, and there are harder substances than diamond...how would they cut them if there wasn't anything harder?

      --
      Ceci n'est pas une sig.
    19. Re:Labor Of Love by niko9 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your bride wants you to spend a lot of money committing to her so she can trust you: she wants to know that you'll be around to help raise the kid before she accepts your seed.

      No wonder half of all marriages fail within the first year.Some people think that in order to prove you love & trust I halve to fork out thousands of dollars? I don't know which is worse, you having the gall to make such a statement (AC no less) or the 4 knuckle heads that modded you up.

    20. Re:Labor Of Love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Take it from a married guy. You DON'T get sex after marrage. I was heard a story that went, "Put a marble in a jar every time you have sex before marrage. Once married, take a marble out every time you have sex. By the time you die, you will still have marbles in the jar."

    21. Re:Labor Of Love by oliphaunt · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your point is well taken- why waste a huge wad of cash on a few trasient moments when you could take that money and use it as a down payment on a house? Weddings can be very expensive now, but I mean a dowry IN ADDITION to the wedding. Think about it- what does a wedding involve? Lots of flowers, girls in dresses, guys in suits, and the family gets to catch up on all the gossip. Who is this party really for?

      Just like the ring, it's really for the bride. And her mother. I could give a shit whether there are three or four bridesmaids, or whether we have fish AND chicken and steak, or just the fish and steak choices at the reception. I just don't care which table uncle Leon sits at. If you as a parent choose to blow a wad of cash on your daughter's wedding, don't pretend for one SECOND that the groom derives any value from the event.

      This is a party you are throwing for your daughter, which is very nice of you. It is not an acceptible substitute for the dowry I deserve-- as compensation for the service I've done you by taking your daughter off your hands.

      --




      Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
  5. Synthetic diamonds by Eric(b0mb)Dennis · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...are 'too' perfect, and still (sort-of) detectable when looking at earth-mined stones..

    De Beers has been trying to 'educate' the diamond masses about these 'heretic' stones, but eventually, this will bankrupt them

    Now, as for the RIAA, CD-Rs and file-sharing won't kill the music industry. I wouldn't even expect a drop in sale-price, just more and more bureaucratic nonsense.

    --
    Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
    1. Re:Synthetic diamonds by danila · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Bullshit!

      Filesharing creates inferior MP3 copies of "perfect" CD audio WAVs. The difference between MP3 and CD is the same as between "artificial" carbon crystal and the "natural" one. If Debeers can "educate" people that their diamonds are real ones, then RIAA do the same to educate people that MP3s are crap. If, on the other hand, RIAA can't educate people so, the chances are Debeers will not be able to do that either. See the Wired article for some quotes by a diamond trader - he is happy to make his profit on artificial diamonds and his customers (in his opinion) are happy to buy cheaper gems.

      I think that eventually so called "elite" will switch to other gems, middle class and poor people will be happy with their ~100$ diamond jewelry, some people will use diamonds in extravagant ways (like on the Wired cover - cool! or completely covering a Bugatti or a personal jet in diamonds). :) Eventually, as other gems are copied as well, rich people will probably switch to smart nanogems with fluorescence, animation, holographics, artificial genetically-designed scented bio-jewelry or something else, which is still expensive to make. Once we have advanced nanoassemblers, of course, all that will be in vain and capitalist meritocracies will collapse all other the world. :)

      As for RIAA, they will suffer from the same problem. MP3s are a decent substitute for music CDs. People will get these MP3s and listen to them. There are two possible developments.
      1) RIAA (labels) survive and start selling MP3s (with no or minimal DRM) cheaply. They are able to maintain some sort of monopoly and still benefit somewhat from pricesetting (now for MP3s).
      2) RIAA doesn't survive the P2P blow and labels slowly/quickly die out. Then a competitive market will emerge. The consumers are likely to benefit because competition is likely to improve quality (and keep prices comfortably low).

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    2. Re:Synthetic diamonds by Cytotoxic · · Score: 2, Informative
      synthetic diamonds are almost always made using catalysts like nickel or iron - thats why they are yellowish. usually
      At the risk of being labled a neophyte, I suggest that you RTFA. They specifically talk about making clear gemstones using the metal solvent process (it takes longer than yellow), and they also spend a good deal of time talking about carbon plasma deposition, which is being done in Boston right now and creates absolutely flawless stones. It is this process that is of interest for producing semiconductor substrates. The $5 gemstone is simply a stepping stone on the way to diamond based computer chips running at tens of gHz. That is the "News for Nerd" that really matters.
    3. Re:Synthetic diamonds by eht · · Score: 2, Interesting

      MP3's? who the hell shares those anymore?, do a search on lossess audio compression, with broadband most people who are even marginally audiophiles ditched MP3's a long time ago.

      Many of the people who record concerts (Phish and Dave Matthews) onto DAT go with lossless to distribute.

      Shorten
      Monkey's Audio
      WavPack
      FLAC (ooh it's also "free")
      to name a few

    4. Re:Synthetic diamonds by rgmoore · · Score: 2, Informative
      It's the imperfections and other trace elements that give earth-mined diamonds their appealing sparkle.

      In a word, no. The thing that gives diamonds their impressive sparkle is that diamond has an unreasonably high refractive index, which means that it is very good at bending light. The high refractive index gives diamonds their "fire", which sets them apart from other gems. Imperfections are one of the things that gemologists look for in diamonds largely because those that have detectable flaws are less valuable than those without.

      --

      There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.

  6. Darn by Stargoat · · Score: 4, Funny

    I knew I should have waited two more years before getting engaged!

    --
    Hoist Number One and Number Six.
  7. DeBeers never promised by BWJones · · Score: 5, Interesting

    However, unlike the RIAA, DeBeers never promised that the prices of their diamonds would come down when market forces and economies of scale entered. Remember when CD's first became available? I can remember saving my change so I could afford some of the first CD's that came onto the market at what.....$15-20? Did the price on those ever come down? No.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:DeBeers never promised by SimReg · · Score: 3, Informative

      "first CD's that came onto the market at what.....$15-20? Did the price on those ever come down? No."

      Yeah, but wouldn't inflation make the prices lower, when compared to today's dollars?

      So in a sense, by not raising the dollar ammount, they have lowered prices.

    2. Re:DeBeers never promised by harley_frog · · Score: 2, Insightful
      So in a sense, by not raising the dollar ammount, they have lowered prices.

      Yeah, but the quality of the product (i.e. the music) has retreated to the point of being worthless. Hell, I can't remember the last CD I bought from a current artist. Most of the CDs I own are re-released copies of older LPs.

      --
      It's all fun and games until someone loses the key to the handcuffs.
    3. Re:DeBeers never promised by AnotherBlackHat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      member when CD's first became available? I can remember saving my change so I could afford some of the first CD's that came onto the market at what.....$15-20? Did the price on those ever come down? No.


      One of us must have a very bad memory then,
      because I remember the uproar when they raised CD prices back to $15, after they had lowered them to $10.
      They said that they didn't sell any more CDs at the lower price, so there was no point in charging less.
      Back then they were at least honest about just being in it for the money.

      -- this is not a .sig

    4. Re:DeBeers never promised by spencerogden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "What other product do you buy that hasn't increased in price at all over the last decade and a half?"

      Computers?

    5. Re:DeBeers never promised by cascino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The price hasn't gone up, either. And that was what, 15 years ago? What other product do you buy that hasn't increased in price at all over the last decade and a half? Ever hear of inflation? CDs are cheap.
      Then how 'bout I sell you my i386 25 mHz PS1 with a meg of ram for $3k and we'll call it a deal.

  8. Dogbert at the jewellery store by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dogbert: So you're telling me that if I give you thousands of dollars, you'll give me a pebble you found on the ground?
    Store Owner: These are not just ordinary rocks! They're precious and virtually priceless diamonds!
    Dogbert: That's only because you chose to restrict the supply.
    Store Owner: Ok Ok you figured us out. I'll give you a bag of diamonds if you'll keep quiet.

    (Dogbert walking away with a bag of diamonds)

    Dogbert: Well now I'm a party to this dirty little secret...

  9. control is the problem by 514x0r · · Score: 4, Informative

    the problem i've had with riaa for a while now is the discrepency between cost and sell. if a cd costs several times less to produce than a cassette, why does a recorded cd cost up to twice as much. perceived value. incidentally i used to be the IT manager for a jewelry wholesaler and it opperates much the same way there.....and they are getting boned over these lab diamonds

    --

    !(^((ri)|(mp))aa$)
  10. How *could* it work? by autopr0n · · Score: 2, Insightful

    DeBeers dosn't have a total monopoly on diamonds now, and there is no reason that any democratic government would give them total control.

    What will probably happen is that lab-grown diamonds will still be very scarce. The people making them are being very secretive about their processes and even their identities. They could sell their diamonds for $6 or $6,000, what do you think they'll do?

    Maybe in 10 years or so the processes will be widespread enough to kill the market.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    1. Re:How *could* it work? by sTalking_Goat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      not necessarily. If they start maiing these for microchips the field changes. No one is going to pay Diamond ring prices for a microchip. And you can certainly sell more chips than rings. Eventually the industry is going to buckle, and I'll be laughing at DeBeers when it does. Blood money bastards.

      --

      My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...

    2. Re:How *could* it work? by Frenchy_2001 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The fact is that De Beers is playing the sentimental trump. They are doing all they can to separate the "natural" diamonds from the "articifial" ones. They spent millions over the year to make every wife in every occudental country dream about a clear stone on her finger. They very wisely chose their sloga nas "a diamond last foreever" and are turning it around by saying the for a proof of forever love, you should give a gem that took forever to mature. Those people are very smart and very skilled at protecting their monopoly. Moreover, they are not over a bit of illegality and extortion if it can help them. They will hammer into our heads that the only good diamand are the "real" ones. Will it work? Time will tell... Anyway, diamond semiconductor might be a better outlet for thos artificial diamonds anyway...

    3. Re:How *could* it work? by Cytotoxic · · Score: 2, Informative
      DeBeers dosn't have a total monopoly on diamonds now, and there is no reason that any democratic government would give them total control.
      Actually, you are completely wrong about this. Frontline and Nova have both done excellent documentaries about the depth of control of the DeBeers cartel. A couple of examples that I can remember include Diamond National Park in the United States, which was declared as a national park to block it's exploitation as a diamond mine. Also, when a huge supply of pink diamonds was discovered in Australia, DeBeers moved to block the companies mining the diamonds by lobbying the political leadership. When that failed, they simply bought nearly 25% of the publicly traded stock of the entire country and then had the boards of all of the major companies in which they now owned a major stake lobby the government on their behalf. Done deal, diamonds significantly restricted. The examples go on, but I highly recommend the Frontline documentary for those who think that democracy is a barrier to DeBeers.
  11. De Beers by El · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Also note that no DeBeers executives have set foot on American soil in several years -- there afraid they will be arrested for their monopolistic practices! So why don't we treat RIAA the same way? Oh, they're headquartered in the US and contribute a lot more to political campaigns...

    --

    "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

    1. Re:De Beers by SunPin · · Score: 2, Interesting
      So why don't we treat RIAA the same way? Oh, they're headquartered in the US and contribute a lot more to political campaigns...

      Because, troll child, the record industry hasn't assassinated anybody or enslaved entire towns. It's much harder to convince the government to prosecute a company when everyone is making money and nobody is dying. Until people start dying, you can expect corporations to routinely beat any charges brought against them. See Enron for the latest example.

      --
      Laws are for people with no friends.
    2. Re:De Beers by El · · Score: 2, Interesting

      From this article: "The United States in fact raised a civil suit against the DeBeers corporation for their monopolization of the diamond industry. DeBeers, however, never showed up for their day in court. To this day no executives from the DeBeers company can set foot on United States soils with out being immediately arrested. Next time try Google before you call "bullshit".

      --

      "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

  12. They aren't so worried about $5 synthetics by hellfire · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The $5 synthetics are "industrial quality" diamonds and are used in manufacturing tools and products, not for being inset in jewelry. DeBeers is in the jewelry business and until the $5 synthetics can meet the same level of visual quality and appeal of a natural diamond, they aren't sweating it.

    The real reason why DeBeers is sweating is the $1.5 billion worth of diamonds sitting in Israel which, if released into the market, could send diamond prices spiralling down.

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

    1. Re:They aren't so worried about $5 synthetics by Dirtside · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not sure if you noticed, but that article in The Atlantic was written in 1982. (At least, that's the copyright date on the article. The fact that it doesn't mention any events that occurred after 1981 is telling, as well.)

      I don't know whether those $1.5 billion worth of diamonds are still sitting in Israeli banks, but I wouldn't bet on it.

      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    2. Re:They aren't so worried about $5 synthetics by Sheeplet · · Score: 2, Informative

      Did you read the wired story? They're making gem-quality diamonds for $5 a carat, that you can't tell from the mined counterparts. They're not talking about diamond dust used to coat saws here....

      --
      -- Breaking Windows: Not just for kids anymore KDE
    3. Re:They aren't so worried about $5 synthetics by MightyTribble · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, it was written in 1982, but it still makes relevant points - it's analysis of why the market is like it is, how the 'Diamonds are Forever' campaign came about, etc, are all spot on the money. Read the entire article and then look at the market today. Not much has changed.

      The points about the used diamond market are particularly relevant. As in there is *no* second hand diamond market. Why is that, given that a diamond doesn't physically deteriorate like most other goods?

    4. Re:They aren't so worried about $5 synthetics by zeroclip · · Score: 5, Funny

      Here on slashdot we read the article before making a coomm.. oh uh.. no thats right.

    5. Re:They aren't so worried about $5 synthetics by torpor · · Score: 4, Interesting


      They're worried about the yellow diamonds that are now capable of being reproduced, in extremely large sizes, in extremely good quality. These are not 'just' industrial diamonds - these are extremely high quality, extremely pure, large diamonds which can be grown by two different independent research groups right now, using extremely high pressure systems that have been in development for years.

      The yellows are at the very top end of the scale, and are something DeBeers has been cultivating as a market for years - now they're reproducable, and lab-made yellows are higher quality than anything DeBeers can muster.

      DeBeers deserves to go down. There is no better example of corporate evil.

      --
      ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
    6. Re:They aren't so worried about $5 synthetics by lawpoop · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Ever been to a pawn shop? It's a great place to get second hand diamonds. Prices are a lot more reasonable there too.

      And they have diamond testing machines right there in the store.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    7. Re:They aren't so worried about $5 synthetics by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because people keep them in their family, because they're too damned expensive, or people form emotional attachments to the rocks (because they tend to be given for emotional reasons).

      Also, there's the simple fact that although people are getting more and more trusting of Ebay and the like, they still don't trust people selling diamonds outside of the commercial sellers, because most people don't know how to tell a fake diamond from a real one (even something that isn't a good 'fake' like a lab-created stone) without paying someone to look at it.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    8. Re:They aren't so worried about $5 synthetics by mcgroarty · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dude, I've listened to Jewel, and she is not worth it.

  13. Debeers can't stop them all. by Greenmonkey2021 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Even if Debeers can bring this innovation down and integrate it into their monopoly, they cannot keep their empire forever.

    With the benefits that diamonds can bring to the tech sector, there will be a large demand for cheap diamonds with the right molecular properties. In other words, demand will bring about many more synthetic diamonds and Debeers can't stop them all.

    --
    Green Monkey san
  14. of diamonds and women by civilengineer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Among non-living things, the best carbon based object is considered to be diamond. Among living things (which are mostly carbon based) women are considered best. (It seems that's the reason women like diamonds so much.)

    Artificial diamonds are here. When are artificial women coming up?

    --

    New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
  15. Taco needed $5 Diamonds by capedgirardeau · · Score: 3, Funny


    About a year ago as I recall :)

    Antoher reason I am glad I have ducked the marriage bullet to this point.

    (honestly it wasnt that hard, I am a geek after all)

    Cheers

    --
    Wax on, wax off baby!
    1. Re:Taco needed $5 Diamonds by El · · Score: 5, Funny

      Pretty easy to duck bullets when nobody's shooting anywhere even remotely near you...

      --

      "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

  16. Artificial Scarcity by Hamfist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They are similar becuase of artificially created scarcity. We are moving into an age of plenty. We can already print real objects using a modofied inkjet. It shouldn't be too long (compared to the time between the printing press and the computer) until our computers can produce most anything we want from a pile of atoms.

    The better question is, what becomes scarce? Knowledge? Art? Service technicians for replication devices? I've yet to hear a good answer. The elimination of scarcity throws our entire economic model out the window. What's the new model? Do we go Star Trek and only care about improving ourselves?

    1. Re:Artificial Scarcity by Telastyn · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Energy.

      All these things need power, and all of these things will be developed before good solar power harnessing is implimented [thus practically eliminating that scarcity]

    2. Re:Artificial Scarcity by vDave420 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Ya know, you have hit the nail on the head!

      My last post touched on the same ideas: We are moving out of the age of "scarcity-based value" quite rapidly.

      It won't be long before you can "print" nearly everything from its atomic components.

      We all (as a society) need to carefully consider the implications of the framework we are laying down now:
      Single-entity (human, or worse: corporate) monopolistic control of "information" or "Intellectual Property" is leading towards the "worse" end of the spectrum, at least as far as I am concerned.

      Call me a hippie, but I'm not.
      Call me a communist, but I'm not.
      Call me a StarTrek nut, but I'm not.
      Call me anything you wish, but I firmly believe that everyone has an inherant (natural) right to use any and all information that enters their person.

      This may be too over-the-top for most people, but:
      Everyone has a inherant, 'natural' right to use information, including EMF radiation (radio/television signals passing *through* your body), genetic encodings (God help you, Monsonto!), Clever C++ code implementations (patented or not), or whatever.

      We need to take back control of our information!


      -dave-

      Shameless plug:
      Use BearShare for all your peer-to-peer needs!

      --
      The pig browse. With Google. Sigh is to the chicken. Chicken is fool. Giggle. The DailyWTF giggle.
  17. However by Dachannien · · Score: 2, Insightful

    DeBeers has something to worry about because there is nothing illegal about making artificial diamonds. (In fact, it's far less morally reprehensible than the virtual slavery of people in Africa caused by the bloodshed and civil wars that occur over diamonds and other gemstones.)

    On the other hand, while music sharing causes a significant problem for the RIAA, they can still do something about it. The issue of the RIAA's price fixing will never be resolved until some method is devised and implemented successfully to bring independently-produced music to the fore.

  18. It's more about awareness than technology by nanojath · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Even more so than print publishing, for a long time music production has been available on a massively scalable level to the independent artist. (Someone can go off about how much it really costs to produce an album, because your cousin's girlfriend's dad is in the biz and... Okay, you can record an album that somebody will burn to CD from anywhere from tens of dollars to hundreds of thousands. Doesn't change the fact that 99% of what the conventional industry produces sounds like it was extruded from a tube.)


    Diamonds are a rotten analogy because it suggests that, up to now and the magic golden age of P2P, the publishing industry posessed all of the real music. The only thing that really distinguishes their product is that it is so obvious. If you never want to buy a major label release again but want new music all the time it really is not hard at all to do. It just involves a little more work.


    There are two ways in which the internet may create a revolution for independent musicians. One is by offering a viable replacement for radio. The second is by exposing music to the distributed filtering techniques of mass exposure and moderation that the internet essentially gave rise to the invention of. File sharing as such strikes me as something that will be much of an adjunct to the real 21st century revolution of music - assuming it really happens because it sure hasn't yet.

    --

    It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries

  19. RIAA & CD Sales are hand in hand, kind of... by phaetonic · · Score: 5, Informative

    Did you know that there is a 2% surcharge on all CD recorders sold that goes directly to the RIAA, and a 2% hidden tax associated with the AHRA that is collected by the RIAA to give to artists, yet only roughly 36% of that 2% goes to the artist. www.boycott-riaa.com

  20. Industrial quality? by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    You aren't paying attention. Previous artificial diamonds are too small for gems, they are used as abrasives in drill bits and so on.

    These new companies are not making diamond dust, they are making gem size diamonds, and plan to use the income from that, as they destroy deBeers, to finance making diamonds for semiconductors, as in huge wafers.

    Maybe you could come up with some definition for "industrial" diamonds, whatever that is, and then update it for the new artificial diamonds, and realize it has no more meaning.

  21. Market effects by neglige · · Score: 2, Interesting

    [...] both companies control distribution of products in their respective markets with an iron fist [...]

    I'd say that this comparison is a bit inaccurate. DeBeers can reduce the number of diamonds offered on the market - supply drops, demand raises the price of the good. Simple. Raising the price and keeping the amount of goods offered at the same level will lead you nowhere, because customers will wait for the prices to drop since they know that a surplus of goods will build up over time (which decreases the price).

    Now, does the RIAA really reduce the number of CD in the stores? Because only this would compare to the influence DeBeers has on the market... No, they just raise the price. And guess what - customers buy less CD and turn to P2P.

    P2P music sharing distributes a good (mp3) that is nearly equal to the original good (CD). While the $5 diamond may be equal in the quality compared to a 'real' (= DeBeers) diamond, the price is part of the value of the 'real' diamond. Give a $10 ring to a woman, and she'll like it. Give the exactly same ring for $1000 to a woman, and she'll feel appreciated. Diamonds are a girls best friend, after all.

    --
    My cats ate my karma. They also wrote this comment.
    1. Re:Market effects by arnie_apesacrappin · · Score: 3, Interesting
      It's worth what you spend. The $5 ring is worth $5. And the $1000 ring is worth $1000

      The only problem I have with that logic is that you cannot sell a diamond for (anywhere near) what you paid for it. Ignoring the setting and assuming you spent all the money on the stone, your $1000 ring will most likely bring you $150-$200. When I went to sell a diamond I found about three dealers in the entire US that specialize in non-estate used diamonds. I was lucky enough to get almost 60% of what I paid for my ring, but it was a lot of work.

      --

      Still, with a plan, you only get the best you can imagine. I'd always hoped for something better than that. -CP

  22. The RIAA, DeBeers, Gemology and Maxell by Kenterlogic · · Score: 2, Flamebait

    We have two seemingly seperate industries. Both, like mentioned in this post, rule their respective markets absolutely. The RIAA controls the price of CDs and DeBeers controls diamond prices. Both of them have been having to put up with some competition.

    Gemology, a florida based company, is making synthetic diamonds for very little money that are near flawless. A 3-karat stone runs about $100 US. There is also a Boston based company that hasn't begun selling yet, but claim to have perfected a process that makes better diamonds than Gemology at a lower price. Meanwhile, dozens of P2P and blank media companies are developing new ways to "compete" with the iron-fist of the RIAA.

    Everyone flames on the RIAA because of their lame tactics that are more annoying than effective at eliminating file-swapping and burning. But what about DaBeers that has been instigating international crime and inflating prrices on diamonds for decades? Near constantly we see stories of little children being tortured over diamonds in Africa yet the /. population seems more concerned with the RIAA placing fake copies of Christina Aguilera songs on KaZaa.

    I am not trying to sound preachy. In fact, I don't really care about kids in Africa. Or anywhere for that matter. All that matters to me is being able to download whatever I want, whenever I want. And write longwinded posts on Slashdot with a good premice that go absolutely nowhere.

    The only place I could find work as a writer is at Fox News. Sure, I can't make a point but I am "fair and balanced" TM.

    --
    The New Root Council, kickin' ass sinc
  23. No, no, no by (trb001) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Congress is told by the Record Industry Association of America (RIAA) that file trading is theft. In reality the P2P services bring balance to a system long unfairly tilted to favor the supplier.

    In reality, file trading is *still* theft because you're breaching the artist's copyright. He's comparing apples and oranges...music is a personally created work of art which is copyrightable. Diamonds are a naturally occuring deposit that just happen to be horded by one relatively nasty company. While I agree the two bare striking resemblances in their distribution models (read: iron fisted), that's where it ends.

    The hullabaloo over file sharing is that, since music can be digitized, it can be easily replicated. We all realize by now that the reason P2P is succeeding is because it came up with a more convenient, but less secure, form of distribution. The RIAA's argument is that because music can be duplicated, they will lose the group of customers who would noramlly all individually buy an item but who instead buy one and dupe. A parallel would be DeBeers, had they created the Hope Diamond, getting pissed because someone was able to replicate it and sell it for $5 on the street.

    That's not the case, this company is creating new diamonds (parallel: independant artists) that will use the same distribution model (retail sale, more than likely) as DeBeers. The only person who should be getting pissed in all cases is the owner of the original work, which for music is the copyright holder, with diamonds it's God (or, for you scientists, Mr. Pressure). I don't think God (or pressure, for that matter) cares.

    It still infuriates both DeBeers and the RIAA, so I understand the comparison, but please don't argue that new, cheap diamonds are the same as P2P. One's legal, one's not (in most cases).

    --trb

  24. The RIAA dream. by hndrcks · · Score: 3, Funny

    "You should spend about a month's salary on the next Britney Spears album."

    --
    Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
  25. Don't want to give DeBeers money? by Mr.+Flibble · · Score: 4, Informative

    So, lets say you have to buy a ring*, but you don't want to give DeBeers money. I suggest you buy Moissanite ring. Myself, when faced with that decision, I bought a Tanzanite ring because my honey likes Tanzanite, and I hate DeBeers.

    True, Diamonds won't be expensive for long, and Moissanite is cheaper now, and may eventually cost more than diamond. But, Moissanite is harder than Ruby, and has a greater luster than diamond, and it also costs about 1/10 of what diamond does today.

    * One day, you will find a nice little woman who wants a ring, and generally it is best to get her one! ;)

    --
    Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
  26. "Intellectual Property" is forever(?) by Uncle+Op · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Last I knew, you couldn't copyright a diamond. But you could hold on to it, and, if you didn't let it get stolen, damaged, or lost, you could sell it to someone else. So it could be a one time inheritance boon if your estate is otherwise meager and your heirs aren't sentimental. Which is why the Diamond Folk work in sentiment, too, so you don't see every dead woman's engagement ring on the aution block. And even if she and her son wouldn't mind, how many women want to wear Mommy-in-law's rocks? Instead, folk go out and buy a new diamond.

    CDs aren't forever, but the force of copyright means that if you cut a Big Hit(tm), you and your heirs can have a recurring revenue stream for a long time, along with all the fat, balding, over-40 WASPs who are the bulk of the middlemen pushing your work. So RIAA wants to hawk as many "legit" jewels as they can without someone undercutting them. That you can buy some DRM'd songs and can't transfer them to a new system. Hard to find anyone against the concept of playing a "used" MP3 on their system, right?

  27. Apples to oranges by GreenCrackBaby · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I haven't read all the comments yet, so this may be a dupe, but the author of the article is not comparing apples to apples.

    True, both the member companies of RIAA and DeBeers are cartels, but what one controls through rarity (diamonds) the other controls through absolute control (music).

    The author points to the fact that RIAA companies have pumped out 20% fewer new albums, and then somehow tries to parallel this to the same stratedy as DeBeers. Doesn't work I'm afraid. A diamond is a diamond, and having control over how many are on the market allows you control over price (assuming demand stays the same). The same is not true for music CDs...one album is not the same as another.

    If (for example) the latest U2 album had been put out with only 100,000 copies made available, then the price could be pushed up on those CDs much higher as demand would not be met by that number. However, the price is completely uncorrelated to how many other albums are available.

    A better correlation between DeBeers and RIAA would have been to focus on the loss of control each industry is facing. Diamonds will soon be cranked out at $5 per karat, and garage bands can now reach a global audience without RIAA interaction. The RIAA isn't playing nice in its death throwes, and I shudder to think what DeBeers will do in theirs.

    --

    "The market alone cannot provide sufficient constraints on corporation's penchant to cause harm." -- Joel Bakan
  28. The Problem with Music by frission · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here's a great article written by Steve Albini on problems with the music industry...very revealing.

    http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

    PS: Steve Albini for those that don't know was in many bands very influential to the Nirvana/Pearl Jam type bands of the day. Bands like Big Black and Shellac...then he turned to producing bands like Nirvana and Bush and others...

  29. Neal Stephenson was right! by binaryfeed · · Score: 2

    Eventually, these processes may become cheaper than manufacturing glass.

    Read "The Diamond Age".

  30. Help the RIAA - Not a Troll by bgp4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wowzers, if that subject line doesn't get me mod'd down, I don't know what will.

    So, the RIAA's issue is they haven't yet found a way to make money off of file sharing. If there was money in it, they'd be fostering it, not trying to kill it.

    So, they're pursuing two directions right now. Fight tooth and nail to protect their current bread and butter (CD sales). They're not doing this for the artists... lord no, they're doing this for the labels. THe other direction they're going is trying to find new sources of revenue. NOTE: This new source must be as large if not larger than the existing stream (from a margin perspective).

    Once they find a way to make money on filesharing, I bet two things happen. a) they stop harrassing folks and b) CD prices drop b/c they're no longer a one trick pony.

    Sooooo... in an effort to stop the lawsuits and help get CD prices down, we, the buying public, need to find a way for the RIAA/labels to make billions off of online file sharing... hopefully without some terrible DRM integrated into the solution.

    There have been many attempts... the $0.99 downloads are the most recent and most successful... but they're still not much compared to the brick and mortor sales that are occuring.

    Put your heads together! Come up with a feasible way for the RIAA to migrate to a new business model and make all our lives easier.

    I dare you.. find a hole in this logic ;)

    --
    I'm down with that, as it were
    1. Re:Help the RIAA - Not a Troll by skryche · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Put your heads together! Come up with a feasible way for the RIAA to migrate to a new business model and make all our lives easier.

      I have enough trouble trying to make money for myself; you want me to help people I hate make money instead?

    2. Re:Help the RIAA - Not a Troll by SunPin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      By pointing out that you are "not a troll" then proceeding to dare readers to find a hole in your golden logic, I have the opinion that you are not just a troll but Troll Of The Day.

      The RIAA represents the labels in distribution issues. If they must resort to litigation and FUD to survive then they deserve to die by the invisible hand of capitalism. By choosing litigation and FUD instead of the market, they have essentially spit on a cornerstone of freedom and I have no pity for their demise.

      Hopefully, *Apple* makes billions from online distribution because they have embraced the market and the consumers within it. The RIAA deserves nothing.

      --
      Laws are for people with no friends.
    3. Re:Help the RIAA - Not a Troll by niall2 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I remember not so long ago you would pull up into a gas station and an eager person would spring forth at the sound of a bell, fill your car, wash the windows, check the tires, and wish you a good day. Then one day someone saw that they could get people to pump their own gas as the pumps were so simple to operate anyone could do it...cutting out the middle man. For a while there we had both kinds of service, but now outside of a few places in the US, the middle man has been removed. Both sides were happer. The supplier and demander both had more change in their pockets. And gas pumps got easier and easier to use (and someone is making money there). Now all some of us do is wave our keys at the pump and fill-er up.

      So now we have artists who want to get their song to market, and consumers who want to get them. And as Napster and others have proven, the pump has gotten easy and fast enough we no longer NEED a CD or other middle media here. What we will need is a system that connects artists to consumers. The middle man who does that the way that keeps consumers happy and artists paid will be rich while the rest will be wondering why no one brings there car to the man who where the Texaco Star.

      --
      Today is a gift. Save the receipt.
    4. Re:Help the RIAA - Not a Troll by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "Once they find a way to make money on filesharing, I bet two things happen. a) they stop harrassing folks and b) CD prices drop b/c they're no longer a one trick pony. Sooooo... in an effort to stop the lawsuits and help get CD prices down, we, the buying public, need to find a way for the RIAA/labels to make billions off of online file sharing... hopefully without some terrible DRM integrated into the solution."

      And why exactly would they stop? In the long run, if they could eliminate P2P, it would make them money. If they have another viable business model, this would just be more money on top of that. And I'd like you to explain why I should help come up with a business model to support a dying industry who refuses to change their business model to adapt, and instead decides to ruin the lives of students through litigation because they were unable to catch the P2P wave before it crested.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  31. I want a diamond cd! by Stonent1 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Since diamonds can be produced cheaply according to the previous article. I want a cd made of a solid piece of diamond. Then I'll never have to worry about scratches again. And if I wanted, I could sharpen the edge and flex my l33t ninja skillz!

  32. Blood Diamonds - Does RIAA have blood on its hands by leoaugust · · Score: 2, Informative

    Because this is about the RIAA, and it brings out the worst in me, I couldn't help but bring your attention in this analogy of the diamond trade and the music trade - the "Blood Diamond." Does the RIAA have blood on its hands ... (of course this is meant only in the sense of extending the analogy ... so RIAA please don't try to sue me ... ha ha.)

    Blood Diamonds

    http://www.amnestyusa.org/amnestynow/diamonds.html

    Greg Campbell is the author of the forthcoming Blood Diamonds: Tracing the Deadly Path of the World?s Most Precious Stones (Westview Press), to be released in September 2002.

    Illicit diamonds make fabulous profits for terrorists and corporations alike. The trade illustrates with the hard clarity of the gem itself that no matter where human rights violations occur, the world ignores them at its peril.

    --
    To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies ...
  33. International collusion by siskbc · · Score: 4, Insightful
    DeBeers dosn't have a total monopoly on diamonds now

    They don't need it. They control more of the diamond market than OPEC does oil, but look what OPEC is able to do. To control a market, you need three things:

    1. You are the largest player in the market, with a high total market share,

    2. You have a large oversupply of the product,

    3. You have the ability to crash prices by releasing your oversupply.

    So what happens if someone mining diamonds were to challenge de Beers? de Beers would make sure that their network of retailers don't do business with that producer. They'd also release some of their capacity to temporarily drop prices. That would put that producer out of business.

    The artificial boys are different, because they can make stuff cheaper even than de Beers can get it out if they dropped their prices as much as possible, probably.

    What will probably happen is that lab-grown diamonds will still be very scarce. The people making them are being very secretive about their processes and even their identities. They could sell their diamonds for $6 or $6,000, what do you think they'll do?

    That's true. Both have a vested interest in keeping prices high. What *should* happen is they should get a deal together where they divide the pie, with neither side stepping over it. Kind of like OPEC. If they did it in the US, it would be collusion, but they don't have to do that. We'll see.

    --

    -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

  34. Market data concurs with Menta's analysis by tagishsimon · · Score: 4, Informative
    At the risk of karma whoring ... since I posted much the same story a couple of days ago ... the latest market data in the UK suggests that reducing the bloated price of CDs increases sales (wow) to - for the UK- record high levels (gosh, who'd have thought in the year of Kazaa that we'd see record CD sales?).

    The RIAA's "xxx's is killing music" (substitute cassettes, P2P, MP3, whatever comes next) is somewhat undermined by all of this.

    Menta makes the point that CDs are priced by the big five at the point that maximises profit. No surprise then to hear that whilst UK CD sales were up by 3%, profit was down by 2%.

  35. Price War by MightyTribble · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Two words:

    Price War.

    The general's not a fool. He won't sell at $5/carat. He'll pitch them at 10 - 50% cheaper than DeBeers. Cheaper diamonds, but not *ridiculously* cheap diamonds. Just cheap enough to get the cost-concious buyer to think "Yeah, it's artificial, but it's still a flawless diamond, and it's 25% cheaper than that other, identical stone...".

    DeBeers will either have to reduce prices, or deal with the General. There's a good chance things could get nasty. If the general and his process survive, the consumer will benefit.

  36. One Week Only!! by PetoskeyGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Does your Cartel seem destined to fail in future markets. It's time you learned how to succeed. The Very Successful Drug Cartels will be having a convention this fall. Don't let your Cartel go the way of the Railroad Express!

    Choose any of these great topics...
    ... Extortion
    ... Bribery
    ... Price Fixing
    ... Secret Pricing
    ... Lobbying
    ... Obtaining cheap 3rd World Labor
    ... Becoming a government monopoly

    and for the truly abitious
    ... Murder, Mayhem and Intimidation
    ... Finding the trouble makers
    ... Going Multi-National
    ... End Competition for Good!

    Sign up now for priority seating. Check our some of our current well known registered participants.

    Music - RIAA
    Video - MPAA
    Diamonds - DeBeers
    Oil - OPEC

    Don't start a Cartel without checking out this conference. Only one Cartel per Industry please.

  37. Creation of a cartel by endersdad · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I posted this article, Have you ever tried to sell a diamond in the previous discussion on diamonds. It is a thourough history on the DeBeers cartel and how they created the myth that "A diamond is forever". It should be required reading for any young man about to be duped into blowing a big wad on a "cheap" rock.

  38. Give a RIAA CD to your girlfriend... by leoboiko · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...because copyrights are forever!

    --
    Prescriptive grammar:linguistics :: alchemy:chemistry. Stop being a nazi and learn some science.
  39. Upgrade to a Stepford 9000! by RatBastard · · Score: 3, Funny

    You, sir, look like the man who would emjoy the benefits of the new Stepford 9000! She's more customizable than the 7000 or 8000 series - all aspects of appearance can be modified to a wide variety of configurations. From tall and buxum to short and muscular and everything in between! With new patented No-Sass circuitry she won't ever cop an "attitude", unless you want her to. New to the Stepford 9000 series: she's compatible with your entertainment center's universal remote control!

    --
    Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
  40. Telling quote from the article by jabber01 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "If people really love each other, then they give each other the real stone"

    Now... I have never, ever used the "If you loved me you'd sleep with me|suck my dick|swallow|let me fuck your sister|whatever else" bullshit.

    I've always thought that sort of attitude was eminently disrespectful to anyone with whom you could possibly have any kind of relationship what so ever. It's something only the completely immoral assholes use on mindless, pathetic simulacra. And I say "immoral", not "amoral", since the statement entails a subversion of a pretense of emotional values.

    But, De Beers clearly seems to think it works. It seems to think that this is a perfectly acceptable way to communicate with their clients, in their relationship with us. So, we have that same immoral to simulacrum relationship.

    It's nice to be called a "worthless cunt" to your face, isn't it folks?

    --

    The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
    What you do today will cost you a day of your life

  41. Linares' patent for vapor deposition by Kazymyr · · Score: 5, Informative

    Just in case anyone is interested, here's a link to the patent Linares received for their vapor process.

    --
    I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
  42. misunderstanding... by gosand · · Score: 4, Funny
    I've had plenty of chicks ready and willing to accept my seed after $10 worth of cheap vodka. All you diamond buyers are suckers.

    "Fuck off, loser" doesn't mean they are ready and willing to accept your seed(ling).

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  43. DeBeers has been much more effective than RIAA by sd_jeff · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not sure how things have changed in the last 20 years since this article came out, but here's an interesting piece on how dimaond engagement rings are an invented tradition that only started 60 years ago. (It's comes in three parts b/c it's pretty long.)

    part 1

    part 2

    part 3

  44. yeah by dtfinch · · Score: 2

    It costs at least a thousand times as much to make a good movie as it does to make a good CD. But audio CD's cost nearly twice that of movie DVD's. And what you see on music store shelves represents a fraction of a percent of serious musicians. Cheap internet distribution would enable them to sell a hundred times the selection at one tenth the price. Someone will do it. Maybe in this decade.

  45. More info on Diamonds by dinog · · Score: 5, Informative
    Available at PBS.

    DeBeers is an even bigger fraud than the RIAA. Diamonds (even natural ones) are not really scarce. Also, the new lab methods do not all rely on the mettalic solvents to create diamonds. One is deposited as plasma, with no extra gunk in the process. They are white diamonds, of unusual perfection.

    BTW, Plastic had this a few weeks ago.

    Dean G.

  46. Where to place the overpriced CD's by Darth+Hubris · · Score: 4, Funny

    I saw the title and immediately thought: If you shoved the overpriced CD's up the RIAA's asses, in a week you'd get diamonds.

    --
    The party's over ... the drink ... and the luck ... ran out
  47. Re:Demand, mostly by 514x0r · · Score: 2, Insightful

    it's entirely demand
    they feel that people *want* CDs more, so they charge more. not the way competitive market based economies typically work, but if you have a lot of control you can force it.
    and sure there are some small cost increases, but i've done enough cd production for friends bands to see the costs. with all costs included it's still cheaper and easier to produce CDs than tapes. and a fair amount of 'bonus tracks' are already recorded, written and produced, they just get left out because some songs always get left out.

    incidentally i am all for the new trend to include a dvd with CDs. again, most of the material is already produced--videos, give the band a miniDV camera in the studio, etc--but it's a nice bonus that some companies have begun to include.

    botom line: buy more vinyl, and buy it from your local indie record store owner.

    --

    !(^((ri)|(mp))aa$)
  48. De Beers losing its monopoly? by chazzf · · Score: 2, Funny

    Do you hear that really loud grinding? That's Cecil Rhodes spinning in his grave.

    No, wait, that's the new diamond-based cd copy protection shredding my drive. Damn...

    --
    No statement is true, not even this one.
  49. Alternative to the DeBeers Engagement Tax by Mr.+Neutron · · Score: 2, Informative
    http://www.betterthandiamond.com/

    Look at their Asha stone. My wife and I got one of those for our engagement, and the jewlers who put together the ring said that they were fooled from two feet away. And it's harder than anything else non-diamond.

    Maybe someday we'll replace it with an actual synthetic diamond!

    --
    dinner: it's what's for beer
  50. the difference is... by jpc · · Score: 4, Informative

    the people who run De Beers never enter the USA because they will be arrested for running an illegal cartel. Europe has a few De Beers shops now (not sure why we think they are legal). I think it was a judgement 10 or 20 years ago that the diamond cartel was illegal, dont remember the exact details, but it comes up quite often, becasue it is difficult to run a large multinational without ever going to the USA

  51. Cuttiing Down On Blood Money by Che+Geuvarra · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With the advent of synth diamonds, it could be that the appeal of the rogue african militia's and paramilitary orginazationns would be out of thier gun and weapon money. For without thier precious "RARE" stones to sell then we sould very well see the atrocities of African nations subside a bit. No need for extra cost to verify diamonds, and no more blood. At least thats' what we can hope for. I do wonder what new advertisement campaign Debeers will come out with... "If the love is for real the the Diamonds will be"?!? nmaybe?

    --
    -For it is the very essence of imperialism to turn information systems into wild, bloodthirsty animals-
  52. Re:Synth Rocks by forkboy · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you had read the article, you would have known that previous synthetic diamonds were as expensive to produce as natural diamonds are to buy. The two companies mentioned in the article have come developed methods to quite cheaply produce diamonds, which is why De Beers is freaking out...they can't compete with someone selling an equivalent of a $15,000 stone for $500. (well, they CAN compete with that, but they really don't WANT to since it means they don't have a strangle hold on the industry anymore.)

    --
    This message brought to you by the Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People.
  53. Re:strong-arm power by siskbc · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You're playing right into the de Beers bullshit by referring to the synthetic diamonds as 'fake.'

    I'm a chemist, I know what they are, but "fake" is four letters and "synthetic" is 9. I give the average slashdotter credit for the intelligence to discern the difference, though perhaps that's overstating things.

    On the day when 'authentic' diamond merchants are frantically shipping their stones with a crappy little scrap of paper with a hologram on it, like an Franklin Mint ripoff item, life will be better for common sense people.

    They already laser-inscribe the more valuable ones with a serial number. The easy bit for the manufacturers of fake diamonds is going for the small-diamond market. As the article says, anything under 1/5 carat isn't worth verifying. And you can make a $10,000 diamond-encrusted bracelet with a bunch of diamonds that are, individually, not worth enough to check. And that will be a nightmare for de Beers to control.

    --

    -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

  54. Excellent Atlantic Monthly article... by Draxinusom · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...about how De Beers essentially invented the global diamond market by both controlling the supply and creating the demand:

    Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond?

  55. Artificial diamons by afidel · · Score: 2, Informative

    Gem quality artificial diamons of significant size don't yet exist (at least not colorless although one company claims to have them coming out this fall), they will NOT be $5, but rather about 2/3rds the cost of the natural ones. And beyond that DeBeers has a flourescense test that will detect artificial diamonds. The real battle will be in convincing Jane Q Public that her man isn't being a cheapskate looser if he gets her an artificial stone for her ring. I have convinced my wife that the replacements to the 1/2 carrat earings that she lost will be 1 carrat synthetics with a gas deposited diamond coating, they are as pretty in the light as real diamons and cost about 1/4th what the smaller "real" stones cost me =) Of course not every woman is so ameniable as the misses.

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  56. Menta should check his facts better by {tele}machus_*1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Menta's article is a travesty. The Wired article reports that the cost per carat for Appollo is $5.00, not that either diamond-maker will sell their diamonds for $5.00.

    Menta also tries to argue that CDs are scarce. Last I checked, I could buy CDs at WalMart, Target, the grocery store, music stores, and dozens (if not hundreds) of online stores. CDs are not scarce. Music is not scarce either, and never has been. For people who really love music, they can find it all around them, i.e., in coffee shops, bars, churches, symphonies, independent artists who distribute online, etc. The only thing scarce in the recording industry is talent.

    And for the last time, exchanging copyright protected material (like an entire album), without the author's permission, with hundreds (or thousands) of people through a P2P service is copyright infringement. Copyright infringement is not exactly the same thing as theft, but it is a violation of federal law, and some kinds of infringement carry criminal penalties.

  57. Re:You learn something everyday. by Pyloo · · Score: 2, Informative

    The other guys have already made the point that you are mixing up the two techniques.

    Id just like to add that even if you are a solid state chemist, there is only one company in the world that has created these flawless lab diamonds (the guy from Wired had them tested) - and the only people who can tell you how do it work for that company, so you are unlikely to get an answer on how they got the metastable phase fixed.

    The closest answer I can give you (and it is from the Wired article if youd care to read it) is:
    To grow single-crystal diamond using chemical vapor deposition, you must first divine the exact combination of temperature, gas composition, and pressure - a "sweet spot" that results in the formation of a single crystal. Otherwise, innumerable small diamond crystals will rain down. Hitting on the single-crystal sweet spot is like locating a single grain of sand on the beach. There's only one combination among millions. In 1996, Linares found it.

    If you want to know more about it then realise that (again, direct quote from Wired):
    This June, he finally received a US patent for the process, which already is producing flawless stones.
    So the information you require should be found in the US patent office.

  58. And stop eating too! by raehl · · Score: 3, Funny

    I refuse to eat food, because the agricultural subsidies that prop up the US food market keep the rest of the world in abject poverty.

  59. Re:I read it as more "de minimis non curat lex" by The+Winter+Queen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I agree with you, if a girl is that shallow dump her, you'll be happier in the long run.

    Besides, this whole diamond scam was made up fairly recently. In my great grandmothers day an engagment ring didn't have to be a diamond at all.

    When I got married my husband gave me a Ducati Monster instead of a diamond ring. That's a gift we can both enjoy!

  60. This is gonna feel good... by sillypixie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Wow, it isn't like all us Slashdot posters are judgemental, or anything... As a GIRL who is a GEEK and relatively socially conscious, but also a DIAMOND owner, I guess I really represent the minority here (-: Let's see here: 1) Some smart women like diamonds. I swear. In fact, I know quite a few of them personally. 2) If you are really planning to meet girls based on their gem preferences, you are a LOSER. 3) Canadian diamonds are a very cool alternative - they come with a lasered serial number and logo on the girdle of the diamond - perfect for us tech-geek girls 4) I personally had no desire to have a diamond when we first started ring shopping, but it was my husband-to-be who felt it was a good idea - so don't give me all that bullshit that the guys can see through the marketing stuff, while the girls dreamily suck it all in. 5) I would take an artificial diamond over a real one in a second - a symbol of technological acheivement and science - that sparkles? It's perfect!

    --
    don't mess with those geekgrrls