Microsoft-Antitrust.gov Opens for Public

prostoalex writes "The Attorney General of the State of California has opened up a Web site, dedicated to Microsoft antitrust violations. In 2002 Microsoft received 2 court judgements, one from California and 7 other states, another one from New York and nine other states. If you believe the company has violated the conditions stipulated in either of the statements, visit Microsoft-Antitrust.gov Web site. Notice that the site collects only the complaints related to two final judgements mentioned above."

Comments

Great

[Em Emalb]

f you believe the company has violated the conditions stipulated in either of the statements, visit Microsoft-Antitrust.gov Web site.

Let the "fun" begin. Why do I think this webserver is going to become complaint central for all things MS?

Re:Great

[TedCheshireAcad]

Good ol' Netcraft:

The site www.microsoft-antitrust.gov is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000.

Re:Great

[Lshmael]

As is clearly stated in the FAQ:

Why can't I submit a complaint here about another problem I have with Microsoft?

This website is intended only to address complaints related to enforcement of the California Group Final Judgment and New York Group Final Judgment. Any other complaints outside the scope of these documents cannot be addressed here. Instead, you should directly contact the state or government agency you believe has jurisdiction over your complaint. You may also contact more than one government agency.

Re:Great

[mobiGeek]

Good ol' wget:

bash> wget -Sv http://www.microsoft-antitrust.gov/
--10:55:54-- http://www.microsoft-antitrust.gov/
=> `index.html'
Resolving www.microsoft-antitrust.gov... done.
Connecting to www.microsoft-antitrust.gov[167.10.5.164]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response...
1 HTTP/1.1 200 OK
2 Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
3 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:48:59 GMT
4 Connection: keep-alive
5 Connection: Keep-Alive
6 Content-Length: 9968
7 Content-Type: text/html
8 Set-Cookie: ASPSESSIONIDAQQRCBRQ=OHDIKLLDIABEJEPCNJNFEDEI; path=/
9 Cache-control: private

Re:Great

[Em Emalb]

And all that will stop people from doing exactly what I said?

No, it won't.

Re:Great

[Prof.Phreak]

Not as funny as this:

Netcraft: The site www.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Linux.

Re:Great

[rifter]

Let the "fun" begin. Why do I think this webserver is going to become complaint central for all things MS?

If by "this webserver" you mean the one at http://slashdot.org, I think you are absolutely right :).

Re:Great

[Malcolm Scott]

Yes... take that with a pinch of salt :)

The reason for that bogus response is that their servers do indeed run IIS 6.0, but they're behind Akamai's distributed server platform. Akamai happen to run Linux.

Re:Great

[Guppy06]

What better way to drive home the point that Microsoft has abused its market dominance than by using the products they're pushing on us?

Clever plot

[Boing]

With what the /. effect is going to do to this site, I wouldn't be surprised if this link was posted by a Microsoft representative.

Re:Clever plot

[grub]

Holy moly.. and I thought I needed more tinfoil on my hat.. ;)

Re:Clever plot

[rgoer]

headertitle2.jpg: 11518 bytes

getacro.gif: 386 bytes

not serving images makes your site /.-proof: priceless

Re:Clever plot

[pmz]

Holy moly.. and I thought I needed more tinfoil on my hat.. ;)

Don't forget the tinfoil Jimmy Hat. It keeps out the battling thought beams of the gays and Christian right. If they accidentally converge at...a highly sensitive point...uh, think overcooked microwaved hotdog.

Jonny Ritter found dead

[Anonymous Coward]

Jonny Ritter was found dead in his Maine home last night. He was 64. His impact on American popular culture will be missed. He will be remembered for his work on the "Three's Carter Cash" and "8 Rules for Dating My Boy Named Sue" sitcoms.

Oh the irony.

[BWJones]

Well, looking at the site.....it appears it's running on.....wait for it......Windows 2000! Yeaaaaay. Oh, wait......

Seriously though, what does that say about your position when you are adopting and running the product of which you are complaining about? Although, I suppose that might only back up their case.

Re:Oh the irony.

[gowen]

They're not complaining about the product. They're complaining about the company's leverage of their desktop OS near-monopoly to eliminate competition in other markets (web servers *NOT* among them).

Fortunately, the CA attorney general understands the case better than the average "MS is bad" slash-drone.

Re:Oh the irony.

[BoysDontCry]

But they're not complaining about the product. They're complaining about the company that produces it. There's a difference.

Re:Oh the irony.

[qoncept]

First, they aren't complaining about anything. The site is there to provide us with a medium to do so.

Second, the point isn't to go complain about Microsoft's products. It's to complain about Microsoft's business products.

Re:Oh the irony.

[slimak]

its probably less ironic than it first seems since the people who are responsible for the lawsuit and the people who wrote the article and the people who maintain the server are most likely not the same.

Consider how many negative Microsoft comments are made here on /. from Windows machines...thats what I consider ironic (but thats just me).

Re:Oh the irony.

[gowen]

First, they aren't complaining about anything.

Well, they did. Thats how they got the settlement in the first place. The judgement is linked to from the website -- which is up so users can complaing about non-compliance with the judgement from the original complaint.

Sheesh.

(RIP Johnny Cash)

Re:Oh the irony.

[BWJones]

They're not complaining about the product. They're complaining about the company's leverage of their desktop OS near-monopoly to eliminate competition in other markets (web servers *NOT* among them).

Forgive me. I should have stated more clearly: they are running the product of the company whose business practices they are complaining about or serving as a source of information for those who are complaining about the companies practices? Sheesh, you guys are so literal. Although, I guess that is the mode of thought in legal circles.

Re:Oh the irony.

[BWJones]

Consider how many negative Microsoft comments are made here on /. from Windows machines...thats what I consider ironic (but thats just me).

The parent post, as this one, are being written from an OS X workstation. :-)

Re:Oh the irony.

[qoncept]

So you're saying they chose which product to use based on the product rather than the morals of the company behind it? So that's why slashdotters make so many bad decisions..

Re:Oh the irony.

[jone1941]

Not only that, but when submitting a complaint they suggest that:

If you are able to provide documentation to support your complaint, please attach the file in either Word (.doc) or WordPerfect (.wpd) format below.

That just seems sad.

Re:Oh the irony.

[sikpig]

Let's just wait for the anti-antitrust IIS patch next week.

Re:Oh the irony.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Second, the point isn't to go complain about Microsoft's products.
It's to complain about Microsoft's business products."

wtf?? ms business products are not products? not to complain about apples... but to complain about red apples!? stfu

Re:Oh the irony.

[YetAnotherDave]

What irony?

If I never had to use windows again, i'd sure complain about it less...

Re:Oh the irony.

[perly-king-69]

I guess it's possible to argue that buy purchasing Win2K + IIS they're actually contributing to the funds of a company they're in a legal fight _against_.

A little contrived, but there you go.

Re:Oh the irony.

[richie2000]

by purchasing Win2K + IIS

Maybe they just installed a copy they got on a CD-R from a friend?

Re:Oh the irony.

[ceeam]

Well, if you don't ever run it then what's there for you to complain about?

Re:Oh the irony.

[HiThere]

Until I used MSWindows, I thought MS was a decent company. The made the best word processor available for the Apple Mac. And I still think that MSWord 5.2a was the best word processor to exist. It's a high point that hasn't again been reached. This despite the fact that a few useful tools have been created since then (e.g., as-you-type spell checks. I note that others have listed this as an example of useless bloat, but I disagree.).

Since I switched from the Mac to MSWindows, my opinion of MS has nosedived. A lot! When I switched to Linux, it took me 6 months (in the days of Red Hat 5.2) to really start using it. Now it is my primary OS, and I only use MSWind part time at work. (My work machine is configured to dual boot.) And my intention is to migrate entirely to Linux, but this has been difficult, as there are pressures to develop in MSAccess. (Anyone know a good substitute? It's got to do data entry screens and reports...Well, I could kludge the data entry screen with Ruby-GNOME2 [or, perhaps, Glade], but the reports are stickier. The reports are the main reason that I haven't pushed ahead more vigorously, despite the on-coming threat of MSXP.)

Re:Oh the irony.

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't even insert PCMCIA modem into my Linux notebook to make it a machine to work on. It does not even contain SameGame or fortune.

Guess where I write that from?

Re:Oh the irony.

[mobiGeek]

...[by] purchasing Win2K + IIS they're actually contributing to the funds of a company they're in a legal fight _against_.

Maybe they had no choice? Isn't this the spirit of the lawsuits in the first place? ;-)

Re:Oh the irony.

[Anonymous Coward]

They're not complaining about the product.

Not yet they're not :)

Re:Oh the irony.

[NightSpots]

What's funny is this line:

Fortunately, the CA attorney general understands the case better than the average "MS is bad" slash-drone.

As a California resident, I can assure you that the California attorney general is interested in nothing more than pandering to special interests.

Someone with enough money stepped forward to make this happen. I assume it was someone from either Sun or Oracle.

Issues like the recent 'drivers license for anyone who has a piece of paper with a number on it'* bill show how little the powers-that-be in the state care about the wellbeing of the people.

*: The bill was vetoed twice by the 'governor' because "it lacked safety measures". The bill that was eventually signed, in the last week that the governor facing recall was able to sign bills, had even fewer 'safety measures' than the previous, but was rushed through to pander to minority action groups.

Re:Oh the irony.

[theTerribleRobbo]

What about those poor souls who don't have a choice at all? Pity them.

Re:Oh the irony.

[Anonymous Coward]

How is that contrived? Every copy of Windows 2000 is nearly 100% profit for Microsoft. It is not contrived at all to think that the money spent on that software will go towards funding their defence against this lawsuit.

Re:Oh the irony.

[yerricde]

Maybe they had no choice? Isn't this the spirit of the lawsuits in the first place?

Not exactly. The antitrust lawsuits were over control of the desktop. Microsoft has come nowhere near control of the server arena; last time I checked, the free Apache HTTP Server was providing healthy competition.

Re:Oh the irony.

[Anonymous Coward]

"about which you are complaining" would be a little better than what you said, which made basically no sense...

Re:Oh the irony.

[Thing 1]

If you are able to provide documentation to support your complaint, please attach the file in either Word (.doc) or WordPerfect (.wpd) format below.

That just seems sad.

Not really -- Word has the greatest overall market share, and WordPerfect has the greatest market share among lawyers. Makes sense. (Of course, .txt format is more portable, but lacks bold and italics...)

Re:Oh the irony.

[kidlinux]

"It's to complain about Microsoft's business products."

I'm sure by this you mean Microsoft's business practices.

Re:Oh the irony.

[naelurec]

Reports are sticky. I have used some web-based apps that use LaTeX templates to generate reports .. the server side makes it a PDF/PS file and pushes it to the client to print. However, still not as nice as an all inclusive package.

There are a few options .. Kexi is a KOffice database front end .. it appears to do tables, forms, reports, scripting, etc.. looks similar to Access. The first release, however, won't be out for one more month (atleast according to the website).

TheKompany has a commercial product called Rekall that appears to be similar..

Perhaps Adabas (comes with StarOffice) might be an option as well .. though I am not sure of its capabilities.

Re:Oh the irony.

[HiThere]

Kexi may well be interesting, but it sound like the upcoming release (v. 0.1) is missing a few too many features to even test. Still, it's promissing. eGnu (gnuE?) also has some interesting potentials, but isn't quite ready yet. (It sounds like it may be closer than Kexi, but that depends on the relative rates of improvement, etc.) StarOffice didn't seem to have anything beyond a basic database. Perhaps if I'd gotten into StarBasic I would have found more, but after VB I've pretty much sworn off all Basics.

TheKompany... I've been bitten by their commercial products a few too many times. I'm going to need some glowing testimonials from users before I look seriously at one of their products. For some reason their GPL products seem better than their commercial ones.

Re:Oh the irony.

[C10H14N2]

Yes, national socialism would have a hard time gathering votes on here despite all the great economic advantages and shiny, shiny boots of leather.

Sometimes good decisions are based on more than expediency, like attempting to not support totalitarian regimes whether governmental or commercial, which exist only by consent.

I would rather the trains ran a little late even if Microsoft could make them run on-time.

Re:Oh the irony.

[rifter]

It sounds like you are going to be voting for Ahnold this year. Not that there's anything worng with that. :) Speaking of which I was happy to see one of the Democratic spokesmen (on Oreilly Factor or Hannity and Colmes, I forget) and he pointed out that Mr. Schwartzenegger in fact pronounces "California" properly, unlike Mr. Davis.

Re:Oh the irony.

[RealAlaskan]

Not only that, but when submitting a complaint they suggest that:

If you are able to provide documentation to support your complaint, please attach the file in either Word (.doc) or WordPerfect (.wpd) format below.

That just seems sad.

That's not terribly hard to do. I can make a Word (.doc) format file from emacs, or even from edlin (remember that miserable monster from mickey-soft?).

In emacs, do C-x C-f. Name the new file something like mycomplaint.doc. Type out your complaint, then hit C-X C-S. Done! You've just created a .doc file which Word will open.

Still, it does seem sad that they have such idiots working there.

Re:Oh the irony.

[Guppy06]

Ah, but here's an interesting experiment that comes to mind.

First, take note of the size of the "doc" file you made in emacs. Then open said file in any version of Word, and immediately resave the file (while making no changes). What happens to the size of the file?

"or even from edlin (remember that miserable monster from mickey-soft?)."

Mock not edlin, for it is an extremely accurate DOS port of the Almighty Ed, the One True Text Editor! It is not wise to draw ed's ire with your mockery of its bretheren.

Re: Oh the irony.

[gidds]

Exactly. The state of Windows &c is a symptom of the problem, not the cause. The problem is M$'s business practices.

If they behaved properly, then their products would sink or swim on their own merits. It's their buying or bankrupting the opposition, their unfairly using one monopoly to try to gain others, their giving away software in risky areas like third-world countries and educational institutions, their nobbling the competition (DR-DOS, Java, &c) that's led to the current situation; without those, we wouldn't be having to force them to open up APIs or stick to standards, they'd be doing it out of good business practice anyway -- if they were still around.

Re:Oh the irony.

[freeweed]

Consider how many negative Microsoft comments are made here on /. from Windows machines...thats what I consider ironic

Or perhaps it's a symptom of a monopoly that's gone on too long.

I'd love to post everything from Linux, unfortunately that excludes my network connection (Dlink wireless card with some really funky chipset).

Oh yeah, and I can't use my video hardware under Linux either (once again, funky ATI chipset), unless I want stock VESA drivers.

No thanks, I'd rather not pay the extra $500 the Mac laptop woulda cost.

Re:Oh the irony.

[RealAlaskan]

Ah, but here's an interesting experiment that comes to mind.

First, take note of the size of the "doc" file you made in emacs. Then open said file in any version of Word, and immediately resave the file (while making no changes). What happens to the size of the file?

Oddly enough, I tried that. I posted that from work, and I work on a NT5 machine, so I did exactly that before I posted the hint. A file whose contents were ``This is a test.'' ballooned from 1K to ... 1K, as reported by the exploder.

Mock not edlin, for it is an extremely accurate DOS port of the Almighty Ed, the One True Text Editor!

Ed's sole purpose was to make vi look attractive. It over-achieved: it also made pounding nails into one's own head look attractive.

That simply proves that Gates and his scurvy crew (Talk Like a Pirate Day is coming up!) copyied only the BAD parts of unix, just like they copied the worst parts of CP/M.

redundant??!

[Anonymous Coward]

The Attorney General of the State of California has opened up a Web site, dedicated to Microsoft antitrust violations.

Isn't slashdot already the place for Microsoft hating and bashing?

This site is redundant.

Re:redundant??!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't indulge in Microsoft hating and bashing. I suspect I am no different to many others using this forum who carefully weigh up the pros and cons of various software solutions, their relative strengths and weaknesses, the total cost of ownership of various platforms, the commitment of various software authors to innovation and forward thinking, the overall quality of a proposed direction, the opportunities and diffculties presented by the various software licensing mechanisms, and then, and only then, after weeks of careful consideration, conclude that, yes, Microsoft sucks, and it deserves everything it gets hurled at it.

Re:redundant??!

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't slashdot already the place for Microsoft hating and bashing?

That's the only reason for slashdot. 98% of the posts are MS bashes.

Re:redundant??!

[the web]

I agree. It's been done.

Re:redundant??!

[kfuq]

you forgot about the 1000's of useless redundant SCO posts too ... :)

Re:redundant??!

[Tony-A]

Isn't slashdot already the place for Microsoft hating and bashing?
Slashdot is the place to keep up with the latest in Microsoft wormage. (At least that's what I tell management;)
Slashdot seems to be the only source for unbiased technical information about Microsoft products. (I didn't say /. was unbiased. It's the only place you're likely to find any unbiased information.)

Re:redundant??!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Isn't slashdot already the place for Microsoft hating and bashing?"

Maybe it'll be easier to get a fp at the new site.

I wonder...

[delirium28]

how long it will take before the site experiences a Slashdot effect.

Seriously though, this is all well and good, but what's to stop users from logging onto the site and reporting violations out of spite? Do they really expect people to believe that they will examine every alleged violation, or is this simply a way for the government to pacify those that believe the judgement was too lienient?

Re:I wonder...

[gfody]

you mean the slashdot effect of webservers melting? or the effect of hurds of ms haters bitching about ms?

guess it doesn't matter.. the answer is "not very" for either

Re:I wonder...

[clacour]

Nothing will stop them; in fact, that one can complain anonymously will tend to encourage that.

For precisely that reason, they won't investigate every complaint, or even a large fraction of them.

Like all complaint-takers for decades (if not centuries) they will investigate things based on:

Frequency of complaint

Precision of complaint

If 500 different people complain about the same thing, it's going to be taken more seriously than if one person does.

A complaint like "Microsoft screwed me blind! I want you to GET those evil bastards!" will probably be handled by a spam filter.

(Warning to those who are overly literal-minded: the following example is completely fictional!)

A complaint like "On Friday, Jun 14th, Jahfhs Ffjl of the Microsoft Licensing group told me that I would have to pay full retail price for Windows XP Home, rather than the usual OEM price, because I sell a line of computers that run Linux," will be much more effective.

Specific dates, names, statements, amounts, etc. will get far more attention than vague hate mail.

Finally, whatever they think should be done will get choked back to what can be done, given their budget.

End result: The most flagrant violations will get curbed quickly (or may never happen because they would have been caught so quickly).

Borderline cases will break down into two groups:

The ones Microsoft doesn't care about will get "cured", and used as public-relations fodder by MS.

The ones Microsoft decidedly does not want to get stuck with will be challenged in court, or similar stalling tactics.

In a few odd cases here and there, Microsoft will get their hand slapped and have to legitimately clean up their act some.

Bottom line: As usual, it's between the two extremes mentioned. It will do some good, but there's a lot of stuff that will still fall through the cracks.

My only complaint about it is that most of the good will come in the next year or two, and it will probably eat up money for then next couple of decades...

Re:I wonder...

[Col. Klink (retired)]

According to netcraft, it does run Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000.

Re:I wonder...

[MikeHunt69]

On Friday, Jun 14th, Jahfhs Ffjl of the Microsoft Licensing group

Those H1-B's are taking our jobs again! Damn you Microsoft!

Re:I wonder...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Jahfhs Ffjl is not an H1-B worker. He is an Infosys manager overseeing their new pilot project in Afghanistan to try to reduce the expense of hiring IT working in India.

Bigots in California

[Anonymous Coward]

The current Lt. Governor of California (Buster Monty) is a proud member of "Mecha", quasi-nazi hate group that espouses ethnic cleansing of people of the wrong race from much of the United States. I do not knowabout the Atty. General, however.

Re:Bigots in California

[hplasm]

I would expect anyone called 'Buster Monty' to belong to some sort of group...

IE not required

[xhawk]

It's good to see there is no "Best viewed with Internet Explorer" at the bottom of the page. ;^)

Re:IE not required

[glenrm]

IS there a best viewed with Mozilla gif available somewhere?

Re:IE not required

[cdrudge]

Well, it's nice to see that it looks like they made at least some provisions for a non-IE brower. If you look at the source, it appears that they made some provisions for NS4 and CSS. So they get a few points up for this.

However, I think that they loose many more points for complaining about the monopolistic practices of the company...then use said company's webserver to host the site.

Re:IE not required

[the_1000th_Monkey]

But it is amusing that the site is ASP-driven.

Re:IE not required

[theCoder]

heh, you're right: "The site www.microsoft-antitrust.gov is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000." Wonder who's bright idea that was...

If they're so concerned...

[Anonymous Coward]

why are they running IIS 5.0

Netcraft results:
The site www.microsoft-antitrust.gov is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000

Re:Nitpicking

[Anonymous Coward]

The US get's to use TLDs without country extensions for the same reason that the British get to use stamps without the name of their country on them - they invented the system.

Re:Nitpicking

[dangermouse]

Go read the site. It's a coordinated effort between California and New York.

do you always question the obvious?

[gfody]

yes I am

Re:do you always question the obvious?

[hplasm]

Cool! I wish I was that perky 1st thing in the am.

The obvious is always the best thing to question. The best way to hide stuff is to make it so obvious it gets overlooked. ;*>

Payment

[rf0]

Well going from the Yahoo news article Microsoft has ended up paying to investigate itself :)

"...and paid for with funds Microsoft provided to enforce a judgment ..."

Rus

Who would win in a fight between MS and SCO?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Microsoft would get the quick lead just by using its sheer mass and mind-control powers, but SCO would get in a quick confusion-effect with its phantom-intellectual-property-violation wave. Then European and US state governments would join forces against Microsoft but in the end it would win through patience and cleverness.

Slow day?

[Omicron32]

30 comments and it's not even Slashdotted yet.

I'm sorely dissapointed in you people.

Re:Good!!

[BenjyD]

You're new round here, right?

was it just me...

[loconet]

or did anyone else read Microsoft-Antivirus.gov Opens for Public.

I got really scared.

Re:They can't hate bill that much.

[ninthwave]

Does anyone in the OSS community in CA want to give them a hand and some space on something non bill to do this?????? Maybe that department did not have the knowledge to use a different platform or the ability to get access to one. I think before slating them someone should offer them some help. I would but am 8k miles away right now.

Netcraft results of the same information:

The site www.microsoft-antitrust.gov is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000.

We have no uptime data for www.microsoft-antitrust.gov at present, and cannot plot a graph.

The host www.microsoft-antitrust.gov has been added to the list of sites that we may monitor. We will start monitoring www.microsoft-antitrust.gov in the next daily monitoring cycle.

We will continue to monitor this host for a few days, to get enough values to plot a graph. After this time the host will not be monitored again unless it's requested again, or it is one of the most frequently requested hosts.

OS, Web Server and Hosting History for www.microsoft-antitrust.gov
OS Server Last changed IP address Netblock Owner
Windows 2000 Microsoft-IIS/5.0 12-Sep-2003 167.10.5.164 California Department of Justice

Top 10 Obligatory Responses to Microsoft News

[AtariAmarok]

10. FP, Overlords, Dead Stephen King, Goatse, beowulf cluster, and all the other cliche posts (get them out of the way now so we can move on)

9. Discussion about whether or not the Borg icon applies to the story or not.

8. Someone whines about Microsoft-bashing

7. Someone whines about how bad Microsoft is.

6. "If you use Linux, you won't have this problem"

5. Something relating whatever the issue is to SCO.

4. A post about the latest gaping hole in Windows security, likely to be fresh news to many since new hole reports are coming out very frequently now.

3. A ton of complaints about the NYT's password-locked site, if the Microsoft story points there.

2. Smirking Apple users.

1. Something about *BSD being dead.

Re:Top 10 Obligatory Responses to Microsoft News

[sremack]

Well, yeah, but the art of bitching about MS is picking just the right one.

Re:Top 10 Obligatory Responses to Microsoft News

[bl8n8r]

This is just more Microsoft bashing, and I'm all for it. A whole site dedicated to Microsoft's mis-deeds -that's great. Microsoft should concentrate on making better software, and not money. God knows how busted-ass windows is. You cant use it for anything reliable, let alone a mail server, or beowulf cluster.

I hope everyone realizes that if you run Linux, you wouldn't have any of these antitrust problems, or virus problems. Did anyone see the latest yesterday on 3 new vulnerabilities found in windows? I rest my case. You cannont *make* a secure windows box

The microsoft-antitrust website looks pretty well laid-out, and doesn't require any registraion to get in - Unlike that stupid New York Times password-locked B.S. Ya know, something else I just noticed is I've never seen Apple in the news for antitrust issues. Now there's a company you can put some stock in!

Speaking of stock, I think they should dedicate a web page on microsoft-antitrust.gov to the SCO debacle. These bastards are just pumping up the stock and dumping it and Microsoft is in on it. They need to account for their actions in the same way Enron has to, which, by the way, is going titsup just like BSD now that windriver is ditching it. Put two Borgs on this article - it deserves two.

Re:Top 10 Obligatory Responses to Microsoft News

[kfuq]

When is that last time you have seen bad press about OpenBSD ?

Re:Top 10 Obligatory Responses to Microsoft News

[pmz]

Goatse

Of all the things that get burned into the public consciousness, this is one of the few that did so literally.

Re:Top 10 Obligatory Responses to Microsoft News

[KI0PX]

0. A top-ten list of obligatory responses.

Irony is it is running on II's

[Anonymous Coward]

what the fuck the site is running on windoze 200 and II's

The site www.microsoft-antitrust.gov is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000. FAQ

Windows users include SagoNet

Microsoft-IIS is also being used by Interland

Please try our new Hosting Providers Network Performance comparison, updated every 15 mins.

We have no uptime data for www.microsoft-antitrust.gov at present, and cannot plot a graph.

The host www.microsoft-antitrust.gov has been added to the list of sites that we may monitor. We will start monitoring www.microsoft-antitrust.gov in the next daily monitoring cycle.

We will continue to monitor this host for a few days, to get enough values to plot a graph. After this time the host will not be monitored again unless it's requested again, or it is one of the most frequently requested hosts.

OS, Web Server and Hosting History for www.microsoft-antitrust.gov
OS Server Last changed IP address Netblock Owner
Windows 2000 Microsoft-IIS/5.0 12-Sep-2003 167.10.5.164 California Department of Justice

Re:Irony is it is running on II's

[chrisgeleven]

what the fuck the site is running on windoze 200 and II's

II's? You mean Apple II's? Think of the children!

Re:Irony is it is running on II's

[e980238]

Yeah i saw that too through netcraft. I thought it was funny as hell.

I wonder

[fireboy1919]

Microsoft is ordered to allow interoperability.

Does this mean that they have to provide their Driver Development Kit, without which it is nearly impossible to write drivers for Windows, for free?

Re:I wonder

[Hayzeus]

Technically, it is free, although they don't seem to offer it for download anymore and impose a completely bogus $15.00 s/h fee. Sucks, but you can probably scrape together the $15.00 if you want to do driver dev.

Re:I wonder

[stephenry]

"Microsoft is ordered to allow interoperability."

They can't be doing a very good job since Microsoft has just decided to block all non-MS clients to their MSN network. To me, that classifies as interoperability.

Besides, how can these judgements be even considered fitting when MS can simply purchase companies that offer non-strategically compatible protocols (a la the recent purchase of an Anti-virus company that developed software for Linux)

Re:I wonder

[Anonymous Coward]

They can't be doing a very good job since Microsoft has just decided to block all non-MS clients to their MSN network.

How about writing a letter? Too much work? Also, MSDN works pretty well with Mozilla. Check your facts.

MSDN != MSN

Re:I wonder

[fireboy1919]

Does that mean that other people are allowed to offer them? Because I've never seen them anywhere. And it's not because I haven't looked.

Re:I wonder

[Hayzeus]

I'm sure it doesn't -- even when they were available for download (free of cost) I'm fairly certain they weren't ever freely distributable.

What's puzzling is why they're requiring that you get this stuff on CD when just a year or so ago (maybe a little longer) you could download it freely. $15.00 bucks on the DDK can't be netting them much of a profit, and it only discourages newbies who want to learn to write drivers -- more DD writers ultimately improve MS's market share. So why do this?

Re:I wonder

[TummyX]

Probably because they didn't want people writing crappy drivers willy nilly. Crappy drivers used to be a huge cause of blue screens in windows.

Re:I wonder

[Anonym0us Cow Herd]

Probably because they didn't want people writing crappy drivers willy nilly.

Just like a monopoly. They want to maintain exclusive control over who can write crappy drivers.


Crappy drivers used to be a huge cause of blue screens in windows.

Used to be? Should I infer that something else is now the major cause of the blue screens? For instance, could it be that it is now easier for an application to bring down the entire OS? (I don't think so.)

Re:I wonder

[Dot.Com.CEO]

I'm pretty sure the original poster meant MSDN sir. Not much chance of getting technical documentation from MSN...

Re:I wonder

[Phroggy]

They can't be doing a very good job since Microsoft has just decided to block all non-MS clients to their MSN network. To me, that classifies as interoperability.

If you're referring to the MSN Messenger issue, Microsoft is well within their rights there. The new version of the protocol will require SSL encryption for logins - from a company with such a shoddy reputation for security, it sounds like they're actually trying to do something right. Are you suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to switch to a more secure version of the protocol?

But they *are* leveraging the server market.

[Compact Dick]

With Office 2003 and its Information Rights Management features, which rely on Windows 2003 Server to act as a secure repository for the authentication information.

Re:But they *are* leveraging the server market.

[hamster foo]

In this case, they aren't leveraging in the same manner as in the antitrust rulings. The antitrust ruling says they can't do something like withhold the right to distribute Windows with an OEM manufacturer's computers if that OEM also offers an alternative OS on their systems.

Releasing software that has a feature that depends on their server software isn't really the same thing. This is leverage of course, but it is legal leverage.

Re:But they *are* leveraging the server market.

[BurritoWarrior]

It is doubtful that it is legal either when one has a monopoly. The loophole is that MS Office has *not* been determined to be a monopoly in a court of law.

Re:But they *are* leveraging the server market.

[DGtlRift]

Yes they are. They are leveraging the server market, media & content market, email market, cartography market, imaging market, telecom market, academic market, and OS market... the better question is what market they are not leveraging... agriculture? Perhaps apples?

Re:But they *are* leveraging the server market.

[Anonymous Coward]

hmmm.. let's give credit where credit is due.

The IRM initiative uses XrML, an emerging standard. NOT a MS standard.

Just because MS is the *first* to engage an open technology does not translate to leveraging. Creating their own methodology and refusing to publish it's specifications IS leveraging.

IMO, antitrust enforcement should be in the hands of consumers, not the government or lawyers. /. is an example of this at work, yet consumer enforcement is a responsibility to be taken seriously. When a company makes strides in a direction commensurate with the complaints of the consumers some acknowledgement is appropriate.

MS "bashing" can be a form of responsible consumer activism, mindless MS bashing is nothing more than academic intellectual masturbation.

Re:But they *are* leveraging the server market.

[hamster foo]

Well, clearly what they were found guilty of is covered under the first section of the Sherman act regarding anti competitive trade agreements.

The creation or attempt to create a monopoly is covered under the second section which could arguably be applied to MS Office. Based strictly on the definition of a monopoly, Office does not qualify because it does not have exclusive control of the market (there are afterall alternatives that people do use). The legal definition may be a little more loose in interpretation.

Regardless, the act of MS offering a feature in Office that requires MS Server 2003 really doesn't fall under either category. It isn't restricting the use of an alternative (the first section), and it would be a stretch to say this is going to push Office to monopoly status if it isn't there already. MS Server is obviously no where near a monopoly in the server market, so that's not really an issue.

IANAL, so take that interpretation of the Sherman Act with a grain of salt. I don't claim to have read the entire document, but I believe the first 2 sections contain the primary things that are at issue. Anyway, I welcome someone with a fuller knowledge of the legal aspects of this to correct me.

Their coders are busy now

[Anonymous Coward]

Expect a new security patch for IE shortly.

Re:Payment (Sorta like the tobacco ads)

[sremack]

I wonder if MS is also going to hire lots of uber-hip teens to talk about the evils of MS execs.

Re:Whats even worse is arin.net

[Neophytus]

where does it mention me, hm?

Appropriate advertising

[andrewbaldwin]

The big advert which accompanies this article is for....wait for it...Microsoft!

And they said Irony was dead!

Mine's bigger than yours...

[fuzzix]

Check out the length of the flag on www.microsoft-antitrust.gov!
Might make billg feel inadequate - the longhorn windows logo flag may develop a long horn...

Ummm.....

[smcdow]

>lynx -dump -head http://www.microsoft-antitrust.gov/
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:02:49 GMT
Connection: Keep-Alive
Content-Length: 9968
Content-Type: text/html
Set-Cookie: ASPSESSIONIDSCQTCCQR=FKLJKJLDAPCDJKKOALFNGJEE; path=/
Cache-control: private

Re:yeah, why is it

[Anonymous Coward]

What are the cool extra feature you are refering to?

/.ing Netcraft..

[grub]

Some poor admin at Netcraft is 'tail -f'ing the logfile and thinking "Holy moly, Slashdot must have run a story on 'Microsoft-Antitrust.gov'.."

Re:/.ing Netcraft..

[stratjakt]

"tail f-ing" each other is something lunix and mac users do nightly.

I'm bored.

Re:/.ing Netcraft..

[Felinoid]

I seam to have lost my spell nazi hat so I'll put on my hypocrate hat instead...
(In other words I can't spell worth a dime)

But...

I'm supprise Mac users give Commodore 64 users the time of day.

(For those to lazy to click the link...
Lunix is a Unix clone for the Commodore 64. Pritty cool IMHO.
It's also a commen typo for Linux.

Re:/.ing Netcraft..

[pHDNgell]

dustin2wti:~ 503% telnet www.microsoft-antitrust.gov 80
Trying 167.10.5.164...
Connected to www.microsoft-antitrust.gov.
Escape character is '^]'.
HEAD / HTTP/1.0

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:33:20 GMT
Connection: Keep-Alive
Content-Length: 9967
Content-Type: text/html
Set-Cookie: ASPSESSIONIDSCQTCCQR=IKALKJLDHBPCPBAGBGIOLCDP; path=/
Cache-control: private

There were days when you could find out what a site was running without Netcraft. :)

But seriously, though, why is this IIS?

Netcraft confirms it...

[Jerk City Troll]

Seems that http://www.microsoft-antitrust.gov/ is running Windows

The server fingerprints as Windows 2000/Microsoft-IIS/5.0. Is it just me, or is there something wrong with this picture?

"We're a site dedicated to enumerating all the bad, evil things that Microsoft does! We're here to show that Microsoft has an unfair monopoly on operating systems and other software. They need to be punished! *cough*Oh, by the way, we run IIS on Windows...*cough*"

Re:Netcraft confirms it...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's a government site designed to collect examples of Microsoft violations of antitrust suits. It isn't a 'Microsoft sucks' website.

Free Trial

[GQuon]

...and even better: It is an advert for a Free Trial. ROFL!

Running on IIS

[Anonymous Coward]

According to netcraft, the site is running on Windows 2000 using IIS/5.0. What incredible irony! Or, maybe they're doing that just to reinforce the point that MS in a monopoly. If they used linux, it would only validate the argument that there is competition.

Re:Running on IIS

[DA-MAN]

The whole point of an antitrust trail is in cases where there is no competition!

I wish I could have an e-mail addy @microsoft-antitrust.gov, that's a sweet domain. I bet they could fund the fight by selling off e-mail forwards.

Apologies...

[Jerk City Troll]

I didn't realize how redundant this had become. *cringe* Please don't moderate too hard.

IE

[smatt-man]

What ever happened to them not integrating Internet Explorer into windows? I think there was 1 version of Windows 98SE that you could remove it from, but after that it was back in.

Re:IE

[ratpack91]

Bush got elected

Re:IE

[eyepeepackets]

If you will remember correctly, Bush was _not_ elected, he was chosen by the Electoral College. He was not chosen by the popular vote.

Re:IE

[Anonymous Coward]

Random luck...

Kalisti chouse bush....

When the election is as close as that you are well inside the realm of statistical noise.
Al Gore was selected by the majority
Bush by the electroial collage.

There is a reason why we have it this way. But as a rule when a few votes can change everything your living in the realm of statistical noise where there is no clear choice just someone who won the coin toss.

Re:IE

[brotherscrim]

psst, genius: They ain't called the electoral college for nothin'.

Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[rklrkl]

Yes, not only is the site running IIS on W2K, but the final (upload) field on the complaint form is most amusing.

Whilst the prior three fields give you 8K of plain text which to fill in, the final field only lets you upload in one of two proprietary closed-source word processor document formats (one of which is ironically Microsoft's) - nope, you're not allowed to upload SXW format (Open Office), plain text or even PDF files ! Also note that you're allowed a 1000K upload too, thanks to the bloatedness of the two formats they do allow...

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[stratjakt]

The site isn't dedicated to OSS zealotry, Mac fanaticism, or destroying Microsoft. It's about reporting violations of specific judgements against them.

Perhaps they recognize that everyone who would be likely to have a legitimate grievance are those who actually use Windows.

What good is listening to whines from a linux user who has no idea what he's talking about, but is just parroting some crap he read on slashdot?

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[Anonymous Coward]

SXW format ? What the hell is that, and does anyone use it ? Get a grip, they are catering to the masses not a few fanatics who take anal pride in not using Microsoft products. The site is only there for the public to submit complaints, not to cater to this or that small group of anti-MS zealots.

If you had to build a site to cover 99% of users without spending too much money, you'd select .doc too.

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a grip, they are catering to the masses not a few fanatics who take anal pride in not using Microsoft products.

Agreed.

Original poster is a complete tool.

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[Col. Klink (retired)]

> Perhaps they recognize that everyone who would be likely to have a legitimate grievance are those who actually use Windows.

Your assumption is that anyone who has any access to any Windows machines should be writing all their contracts in Word. What if I'm a Linux shop trying to develop an application that will interoperate with Windows, but MS refuses to document their protocols as they were ordered to. You think it's legitimate that if I want to complain, I need to buy a Word license and import all my contracts and documentation to Word just so I can complain?

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[HiThere]

That seems rather silly. text and pdf seem quite legitimate choices. text should always be allowed.

And since OOo can export in *.doc format, it doesn't even exclude anyone. It's just silly.

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[Odin's Raven]

Perhaps they recognize that everyone who would be likely to have a legitimate grievance are those who actually use Windows.

True, but not every Windows user has a copy of Microsoft Word or WordPerfect. (Or maybe I'm just the only silly person who didn't buy it bundled with my computer and hasn't grabbed a copy from a warez site.) Allowing plain-text would be useful even if the antitrust site were focused on Windows users.

What good is listening to whines from a linux user who has no idea what he's talking about, but is just parroting some crap he read on slashdot?

Hey, it still beats working, right? :-)

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[kilonad]

Ummm... quit being a troll. StarOffice will export a .DOC file. There's no need to buy a Word license and import everything you have. They accept WordPerfect format as well, and I'm pretty sure that when you buy WordPerfect, you aren't giving money to Microsoft.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[geschild]

Which should make for one very easy to sustain complaint against Microsoft. Unfortunatly, I don't think it falls under the two rulings: Tie in through MS office formats. Oh well...

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[DA-MAN]

But every Windows user does however have WordPad, which can write to Word. You may not be able to read all word files with wordpad, but Microsoft Word should be able to read all wordpad files.

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[Odin's Raven]

Doh! DA-MAN is correct -- I withdraw my earlier statement.

Who says you can't learn something useful on Slashdot? :-)

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[rmohr02]

StarOffice and OpenOffice can read and write DOC files, but not as well as MS Office.

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[evilviper]

StarOffice will export a .DOC file. There's no need to buy a Word license and import everything you have.

You mean, at the moment. Just as soon as Microsoft adds one single new feature to the .DOC file format, and claims it is "copyright protection", then tools that can read/write .doc format will be illegial under the DMCA.

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[rmohr02]

I've had job interviews in which they asked me to send the file as DOC, so I save as RTF and rename the file.

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[rmohr02]

That is, I've had job interviews in which they asked me to send a resume as DOC, so I save as RTF and rename the file.

Re:Complaint form's final (upload) field...

[Hatta]

Please, WTF is wrong with ASCII?

And this server runs on...

[tetrode]

$ telnet www.microsoft-antitrust.gov 80
Trying 167.10.5.164...
Connected to www.microsoft-antitrust.gov.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET /
HTTP/1.1 406 Not Acceptable
Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:29:04 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Length: 1382

The irony...

Re:And this server runs on...

[goon america]

curl -I [address] is easier

I bet...

[Mocenigo]

I bet Microsoft will also dislike California, now ;)
Isn't this web site "unfair"?

Two Borgs?

[AtariAmarok]

"Put two Borgs on this article - it deserves two."

Here you go: click here.

Re:Nitpicking

[sg_oneill]

If this is the Attorney General for California's website, why doesn't it have the form Microsoft-Antitrust.ca.us?

Hehe. Cos its one thing to have a lil state pissed off at you and another to have the entire goddam USA have a hate website based on you.

Now if *I* did a hate-site on someone that pissed me off, I'd probably cop a stalking charge!

BTW Mods. Parent was funny. Someone might want to un-troll that moderation. ;)

Let's bookmark that baby!

[Andrewkov]

CTRL-D to bookmark, folks! Woot!

On to more relevant things

[brsmith4]

After sifting and sorting through the myriad of posts pointing out that this site is running IIS 5 and how the govt. is so hypocritical for doing so, I've come to the conclusion that some if not most slashdotter's are too riled by minor details. It conveys a serious lack of intelligence on our part. But I digress...

While going through some of the PDF docs on the site, mostly pertaining to court judgements, I noticed that many of these documents reference the Sherman Anti-trust Act.

2 Sherman Act, 15 U.S.C. 2

Monopolizing trade a felony; penalty

Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be punished by fine not exceeding $10,000,000 if a corporation, or, if any other person, $350,000, or by imprisonment not exceeding three years, or by both said punishments, in the discretion of the court

For those that don't know, this is Section 2 of the Sherman act, which Microsoft was found in violation of. I see the fine of $10,000,000 as a maximum to be completely impotent against a company with a financial foundation such as microsoft's. There should be some sort of percentage of profits reaped from the anti-competitive behavior that should be taken away. $10,000,000 is a drop in the bucket for microsoft. The penalty should be stiffer.

I'd be interested in filing a complaint regarding their procedures regarding the computer sales market, how pretty much all PCs come with their product and their "tax" regardless of whether or not you want it. THAT is a complaint worth filing. I am being FORCED to pay for a PRODUCT that I NEVER asked for nor implied that I wanted.

Re:On to more relevant things

[Anonymous Coward]

I am being FORCED to pay for a PRODUCT that I NEVER asked for nor implied that I wanted.

You weren't forced to buy shit. You chose to buy a product that it came bundled with. You could easily have said no thanks, I just won't buy. Instead you made the decision to buy it as well. Don't get mad because you are a dumb butt-fuck that doesn't want to take responsibility for your own actions.

Re:On to more relevant things

[brsmith4]

I can't even believe that I am dignifying your post with a response, but I guess I'll feed the ass holes.

You weren't forced to buy shit

Yes I was. I wanted a laptop computer with certain specs and without an OS. But, due to Microsofts license agreement with companies like Dell, these companies are forced to include Microsoft's OS on their computer when they sell it to me AND relay the cost of that OS on to me as well. I could have gone and bought a laptop without the OS, but the specs were not what I wanted and the inconvinience was too great.

You chose to buy a product that it came bundled with.

That's the thing, I didn't have a choice. It was either get the laptop with their bastard os, or have no laptop at all.

You could easily have said no thanks, I just won't buy. Instead you made the decision to buy it as well.

Some times saying "no thanks" just isn't an option. Have you ever had a job before?

Don't get mad because you are a dumb butt-fuck that doesn't want to take responsibility for your own actions.

At this point, you are at the level of a two-year old. What does taking responsibility for my own actions have to do with shit? You are simply pulling stuff out of your ass in the hope of looking like a bad ass. Are you compensating for something? Perhaps you should see a counselor for your teenage angst problem. Are your peers picking on you at school? Are you bullied by them and find it necessary to attempt your bullying on /. just to make yourself feel better, feel more powerful than you actually are? Cmon. Get a grip.

Re:On to more relevant things

[Paul Johnson]

I'd be interested in filing a complaint regarding their procedures ... I am being FORCED to pay for a PRODUCT that I NEVER asked for nor implied that I wanted.

Hmmm. I skimmed through the Orders. There was something there about OEM discounts not being dependent on percentages of machines shipped with Windows. So if you are still being forced to pay the MS tax then make a complaint.

Paul.

Re:On to more relevant things

[Anonymous Coward]

You had plenty of choices.

Unless your "specs" were "Dell Laptop", you had a plethora of other vendors to choose from, even small companies that manufacture their own brand of laptop. Not *all* laptop manufacturers always inlcude MS software. Thats nonsense.

You couldn't get all the features you wanted in a non-dell laptop? b.s.

Re:On to more relevant things

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, to be honest it seems extremely unlikely you were forced to buy this. But tell us the specs, and we'll see if you were, huh? I know laptops are hard to actually get from suppleirs who will send sans-OS, but it is not impossible. I'd also say that I thought one of the problems with MS was that they were providing the OS at a very low cost and this was one of the issues. (I could be talking rubbish here). Hence other OS suppliers were unable to compete with the low cost to the OEM, and MS gains a monopoly. If i'm wrong then let me know (seriously - that isn't actually sarcastic, though it sounds it).

Re:On to more relevant things

[alext]

Oh good, while you're in a mood to help can you please find me a ~1.7Ghz Centrino wide screen with SP/DIF other than Dell or Samsung (since both are Windows taxed).

Thanks!

Re:On to more relevant things

[SmallFurryCreature]

Ehm no. You are not being forced to pay the "microsoft tax". This is not unlike me complaining about the "tomato tax" at Burger King. The tomatoes they include are disgusting and I always make it a point to remove it. Nonetheless even when I instruct them with the order not to include the tomato they still charge me for it. Nonetheless any complaint on my ground is baseless. I am not being forced to buy their hamburgers. No not even when they are the only store open late at night at the train station. Their hamburger, their policy of what to include at what price. Their PC, their policy of what to include at what price.

Yes this is pedantic. But so are you. Plenty of shops sell clean machines. That you choose to buy from a store that doesn't is your problem. YOU are not being forced to pay for MS products you never use. You CHOOSE to buy from companies that refuse to deduct MS software from the total if requested.

The PROPER complaint is that MS uses its position to force companies to include an OS on all machines and imposes penalties on companies that don't or put the a non MS-OS on it. But this has nothing to do with you UNLESS you run such a computer company and are being forced to sell MS software. So the only one who can make a complaint about this are the companies involved. Sadly most of them seem to be to afraid to speak out. So perhaps you should file a complaint but make sure to make the proper complaint.

Why so ANAL? Because this is a real legal opportunity to force MS to stop its illegal business practices. We can't afford for the real legal complaints to be drowned out by well intenioned ramblings. California requires real complaints that are properly worded to have any chance of winning.

Remember the struggle is not to destoy MS, nor is it to get everyone to run linux. It is to allow true freedom for people to choose whatever software solution they want. For the linux users. We don't need everyone to use linux. We just need to create a world in wich enough people use different OSes that noone can afford to close their software/standard/site to only MS users.

So if someone you know thinks about buying an iMac don't laugh, well not to much, but help them with their new machine. They are part of the solution, even if they got no taste.

Re:On to more relevant things

[hyperstation]

correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't dell laptops notoriously non-ms os challenged?

Re:On to more relevant things

[Quixotic Raindrop]

Actually, that's not quite right, the tomato analogy.

It works if modified thusly: Burger King sells you a Burger with Tomato(es) on it, and their license for you to consume the burger includes provisions for returning the tomoato(es) if you find it disgusting, or if you don't agree to their license terms for consuming the tomato(es) (perhaps the license requires you to stand in your boxers at the exit and sing the "Burger King's Tomatoes are yummy!" song). Since you find it disgusting, you choose to return it; however, the Burger King franchise from which you have bought (but not yet consumed) the burger tells you that you have to contact Tomato-Queen (who sells all of the tomatoes that Burger King puts on its burgers) to get a refund for the tomato. Then, in contacting Tomato-Queen Headquarters, they inform you that they cannot refund it, because the license agreement requires you to take it to the individual restraunt to get a refund. The restraunt then requires you to return the entire burger, not just the tomatoes. Oh, also, you have to thrown in that every other burger-maker uses Tomato-Queen tomatoes in their burgers, none of them sell Tomato-free burgers, and all have the same agreements in place.

The problem with the EULA for MS OSes requires that you return the OS, without agreeing to the EULA, to the place where you bought the entire system, and most of them won't allow you to get a refund for MS OSes because they still have to pay Microsoft even if they don't sell Windows on the computer. Also, even though you do have some choices in hardware, they are really pretty much limited to either a Macintosh or an IBM-compatible PC. If you can't use a Mac (because you don't like them, or can't afford to re-purchase any applications you already own, perhaps), you are very nearly stuck with buying an OS you won't run, don't agree to the license terms for, but have no real recourse against!

Re:On to more relevant things

[forkboy]

Not that I've ever seen...I've owned 2 Dell laptops in my lifetime, both of which ran Linux just fine.

Re:On to more relevant things

[Anonymous Coward]

once again assfuck, no you weren't. The choice may have been to NOT buy a computer. Guess what, they didn't force you to buys shit. You always had the chcoice to not buy. Just because you chose to buy it does not mean they forced you too. Grow up and kill yourself.

Re:On to more relevant things

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess what, they didn't force you to buys shit.

They didn't force you to continue living. *BANG*

Re:On to more relevant things

[brsmith4]

*entering your level*

OK FUCK TARD, I needed a computer for work. I was told to buy one. I had to buy from dell because they are who our support contract was with. I didnt have a fucking choice you mindless piece of shit. do you get it now fuck face?

*/exiting*

Do you like what you sound like, bitch?

Re:On to more relevant things

[Brandybuck]

But be sure you can prove that you were FORCED to buy that product.

I have owned five computers in my life. The latest one is only one month old. I have never paid a Microsoft "tax". Methinks the poster just doesn't know how to buy a computer.

Re:On to more relevant things

[brsmith4]

Methinks you just assume things a little too much. My job RE-FUCKING-QUIRED that I have a dell. I would think maybe that scenario would cross someone's mind on this forum at some point.

Re:On to more relevant things

[bergeron76]

So basically as inflation continues to raise prices in general, the Sherman act will continue to become more and more irrelevant.

Shouldn't we[Americans] do something about this NOW, before our country/the world becomes mega-corporation-ville? I'm thinking percentage rather than fixed dollar amount.

Afterall, it's all about mergers and acquisitions in the business world.

Re:On to more relevant things

[Brandybuck]

Then blame your boss for making you buy a Dell out of your own pocket. At my work I'm forced to use a Dell also, but it was the company that paid for it, not me. If a company wants to pay the Microsoft "tax", then that's their concern, not mine.

Re:On to more relevant things

[Anonymous Coward]

so then its not your money and not your problem, and if it is your money, then you have a shitty job, which suits you, because you eat goat ass. I woulda taken a shit on my bosses desk and told him to pay for the fuckin computer, but you have no balls, and are still a virgin.

MSN/Windows Messenger

[R0]

Is preinstalling MSN/Windows Messenger in windows illegal? And is it relevent to the judgements?

Re:MSN/Windows Messenger

[fuali]

only if installing .MAC and iChat on mac OSX.

'Microsoft' and 'Opens' and 'Public'

[Anonymous Coward]

Never use the words 'Microsoft' 'Opens' and 'Public' in a headline ever again. It's very deceiving.

My brain can't handle it. I spittaked my coffee all over my keyboard.

Microsoft don't eat their own dog food.

[pubjames]

I just found this very entertaining table on Netcraft:

http://www.atrc.net.pk/news/microsoft_london_lin ux _hosted.html

It shows that Microsoft use Linux to deliver their web site content to Europe.

If there was ever a good way to convince your PHB that Linux is a capable system, this must be it. Email that link to your PHB today!

Re:Microsoft don't eat their own dog food.

[SmallFurryCreature]

Well actually akamai uses linux not microsoft. Microsoft has just hired a company to "host" some of their stuff and that company uses linux. Akamai provides web hosting to big companies.

So why does MS use them? Well with the latest worm posed to attack an MS site MS decided to not risk this site going down and instead hired this company to provide caching/mirroring/proxy in such abundance that the worm couldn't possibly take the site down.

So yes it is kinda funny that MS faced with an attack caused by a bug in their own software saw the need to use linux, be it through a third party, to rescue their sites. But MS does not use linux.

MS just doesn't thrust its own solutions to stand up to an attack. But this is easily defended. MS is a software company, not a webhosting firm. Oh wait, MSN is. Never mind.

Oh and no I am not defending MS. I just prefer to laugh at them for the proper reasons. Truth is always more entertaining then fiction.

Re:Microsoft don't eat their own dog food.

[Anonymous Coward]

What was the story about Hotmail? Wasn't that also a site that MS couldn't keep running using their own software?

Left them a comment...

[rongage]

If you go to http://www.microsoft-antitrust.gov/contactus.asp you will find that they have a nice little web form for commentary to them.

For example, my comment to them...

It's pretty darned ironic that your department has chosen to host a website on Microsoft Windows 2000 and Internet Information Services. Was this a deliberate choice on your part to help demonstrate the monopoly power of Microsoft, or did you genuinely no know that you had several no-cost (acquisition wise) choices available to you?

Re:Left them a comment...

[kfuq]

maybe *nix is too l33t for them...

LOL

Re:Left them a comment...

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose by choosing the IIS and promising not to use Apache/Linux bundles, the government of California was getting a REALLY nice deal on Windows/Office software licenses.

Plus, it kept some jobs in state - like those 5 guys working on Internet Explorer, or as they're called Microsoft California office.

Best viewed with Mozilla link

[bluGill]

Start here.

End of life issues

[jwjcmw]

My company develops windows applications, and one thing we are running into is the end of life issues.

Right now NT4 has reached the end of its support, and will be end-of-life next June. There are still many corporate environments where NT4 is the norm, and many of them aren't going to be changing anytime soon. This makes it hard for a developer who wants to create a product that works on NT4 through XP, as there is little or no support for adding or changing the NT4 platform at MS. However, it is not a problem for MS, since if they have any problems with an application (Word, Excel, IE, etc) not working on NT4, they have the ability to ship a change to the operating system with the update to the application(probably even after the "end-of-life"). This makes it hard for developers who have to say, yes you can use our product, but you have to upgrade to a later version of Windows, where MS can just say go ahead and buy this product now...you can upgrade the operating system when you are ready. This drives more of the application use on these older systems to only using MS products.

I wonder if that aspect has ever been discussed in any of the anti-trust proceedings.

Re:End of life issues

[IchBinEinPenguin]

True, but I'm not sure Microsoft would bother doing this.

Option 1: break out the old NT4 source, mangle it, build, test, release
Result: Happy NT4-based customers who have one fewer reason to ditch NT4.

Option 2: Dear %user%, thank you for your letter about %subject%. It seems you are not running the latest Windows. Please upgrade and all will be well.
Result: Another hamster on the upgrade-treadmill powering Microsoft along.

If you were Microsoft, which of these would be more apealing to you?

Bush was elected.

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you will remember correctly, Bush was _not_ elected, he was chosen by the Electoral College"

I remember correctly. He was elected by being chosen by the electoral college. Check your Constitution. This is how Presidential elections work. This was how Millard Fillmore, Woodrow Wilson, and "Ike" got into office.... and all the rest of the Presidents except for the ones like Ford.

Windows Critical Update Notification

[Xaroth]

Security Update for Microsoft Windows(KB1337N008)
Download size: 1 KB, < 1 minute
A security issue has been identified in Microsoft Windows that could allow an end-user to see information detrimental to the Microsoft Empire(tm) by allowing the user to visit certain anti-Microsoft government sites. You can help protect Microsoft by installing this update from Microsoft. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer. Read more...

Re:Windows Critical Update Notification

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

Nothing from Microsoft would be compact enough to fit in a kilobyte! :)

Gore was not selected by the majority

[Anonymous Coward]

Gore got less than half of the votes: he did not get a majority. You can thank the spoiler (rhymes with Vader) for this. The ability to mess up an election like Darth did is a big power trip. Just ask Perot.

Oh The Irony

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

Sometimes you just have to sit back and laugh.

Re:Oh The Irony

[fuali]

heh, right tool for the right job. doht. ...or... Eat your own dogfood.

PCs-Windows?

[Jedi1USA]

So is this where I go to complain if a computer manufacturer refuses to sell me a computer without MS Windows installed, or no discount on same computer without Windows? How about enforcing refunds if the terms of the EULA are not acceptable?

Just a few thoughts.

Whine, whine whine

[Anonymous Coward]

"Yes I was. I wanted a laptop computer with certain specs and without an OS. But, due to Microsofts license agreement with companies like Dell, these companies are forced to include Microsoft's OS on their computer when they sell it to me AND..."

What's the big deal? Do you whine piteously to the car dealer because GM has bundled a Delco radio in your new car? If you buy a box of Cap'n Crunch, are you going to wail that they bundled some Kimblery-Clark wax paper inside? If you buy a CD, are you going to make a capital case of it that there is BASF coloring used? Are you going to sue because there are Idaho potatoes used in that Happy Meal?

"That's the thing, I didn't have a choice. It was either get the laptop with their bastard os, or have no laptop at all."

Yes, you have a choice. Buy the complete product, or whine and walk away because they won't sell a half-assed incomplete product that no-one wants.

Re:Whine, whine whine

[brsmith4]

Your examples hold no relevance to what I was saying. No one gives a shit that Kimberly-clark wax paper is used to contain the capt-crunch in my cereal box because it does the job and its only a product that runs about 3 bucks. No one cares that BASF coloring was used for their CD, and no one really gives a shit what kind of potatoes are used in their Happy Meal. As for the Delco radio, at least you can take it out and sell it to someone.

With the operating system, you are buying something you don't really want to run your spiffy new 2,000 computer. With the kind of money people spend on their computers, they should have a choice of whether or not they want that software on that computer. As for your last saying: it would be nice if the companies would at least give you the option of not having MS installed on the computer at the time of purchase. What is so hard to understand?

FWIW Here is the Federal Version

[cyber_rigger]

Here is the Federal Version

http://thetc.org/

Already been done

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft v. Caldera was settled out of court to the tune of 150 million USD.

how about an .org site?

[BigGerman]

I was thinking it would be cool to have a publicly-supported .org website dedicated to our favorite software monopoly.
No dirt, no childish things, just the facts, discussions and humor.
Public as a whole has no idea how bad the microsoft thing is for the US and the mankind, education is in order and every little bit will help.

Re:how about an .org site?

[Anonymous Coward]

The first section added might be a fan club for Gartner ;-)

Misuse of .gov namespace

[realdpk]

Has anyone else noticed the .gov namespace being used for stranger and stranger things? Some politicians have even been using .gov for their campaign messages and such (used to be www.flattax.gov, but that's 403'd).

Doesn't it seem like this should be like.. microsoft-antitrust.gov.ca.us or something?

My WinDoze Honeypot ...

[quarkscat]

is what I expose to the internet.
You don't really think there could
be any other reason? (Although I
refuse to use IE 5.x ... ;^)

Dept. of Redundancy Dept.

[quarkscat]

is at least a government sponsered
Microsoft bashing site ... (now if
only John Ashcroft would take notice ... )

Netcraft.

[Mullen]

Well, they like Microsoft enough, from netcraft:

Windows 2000 Microsoft-IIS/5.0 12-Sep-2003 167.10.5.164 California Department of Justice

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.mi cr osoft-antitrust.gov

Why didnt Taco announce...

[Anonvmous Coward]

... that Slashdot was changing its name?

Interoperability and NTFS?

[Dominic_Mazzoni]

I was recently trying to read an NTFS partition from one of my other machines and learned that NTFS support on Linux and Mac OS X is quite poor, because Microsoft has never published any documentation. I'm impressed that people have reverse-engineered as much as they have, but it sounds like getting robust write-access to an NTFS volume is still a pipe dream.

Is Microsoft violating their antitrust settlement by not providing complete NTFS documentation? Or is there some loophole?

Re:Interoperability and NTFS?

[fuali]

It's called trade secrets, and has nothing to do with antitrust. If I invent a widget that only I know how to build, there are laws that protect me from a) People making money off my widget by building a knock-off b)People reverse engineering my widget and c)Having to release the manufacturing process of my widget.

Just because everyone uses my widget I am not oblidged by the law to release to the public how I manufacture my widget.

Re:Interoperability and NTFS?

[bigdavex]

It's called trade secrets, and has nothing to do with antitrust. If I invent a widget that only I know how to build, there are laws that protect me from a) People making money off my widget by building a knock-off b)People reverse engineering my widget and c)Having to release the manufacturing process of my widget.

IANAL, but trade secrets aren't legally protected from reverse engineering. Even the DMCA explicitly reserves the right to reverse engineer:

f ) Reverse Engineering.--(1) Notwithstanding the provisions of
subsection (a)(1)(A), a person who has lawfully obtained the right to
use a copy of a computer program may circumvent a technological measure
that effectively controls access to a particular portion of that program
for the sole purpose of identifying and analyzing those elements of the
program that are necessary to achieve interoperability of an
independently created computer program with other programs, and that
have not previously been readily available to the person engaging in the circumvention, to the
extent any such acts of identification and analysis do not constitute
infringement under this title.

Insightful, my foot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Consider how many negative Microsoft comments are made here on /. from Windows machines...thats what I consider ironic (but thats just me).

No, it's just proof of how effective their monopoly is.

Government is slow and dumb

[MacFury]

I wish your idea would work, but the government doesn't work that way.

I've been working on a government website in which PHP and MySQL would have been the best and most cost effective solution. I detailed the reasons why in several pages, going to great lengths to persuade them. I even offered to setup the server for free, way out of the scope of my contract.

They decided to go with an expensive Oracle and JSP backend.

A government worker never needs to get his job done, only to be able to bitch at someone when he can't get it done. In this case, it will be Sun and Oracle.

Re:Johnny Cash dead at 71

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, that's certainly some good news! I'd say I've waited for years for it to finally happen!

This stupid fucker didn't deserve to live anyways, and it's always a good thing to see another american idiot die.

Define "forced"

[yerricde]

You weren't forced to buy shit.

And you weren't forced to breathe either.

You chose to buy a product that it came bundled with.

Please prove that prospective non-Mac laptop purchasers aren't forced to buy Windows by answering the following question: Where can I purchase a new x86 architecture laptop computer that a Microsoft Windows OS doesn't come bundled with?

Re:Define "forced"

[Brandybuck]

By specifying "x86 architecture", your artificially limiting the marketplace. You might as well artificially limit that marketplace to Dell, then whine about the "Intel tax" since Dell doesn't offer AMD chips.

The actual marketplace is not "x86 architecture", but "laptops with office productivity and networking functionality". In such a market, Apple and Sun notebooks are viable options.

But to stop your whining, I'll tell you about one Windows-free x86 architecture laptop. There are many many more. eRacks

Re:Define "forced"

[jqstm]

there's this site called google and you can use it to find all sorts of things.

http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux-laptop-lc2000. html

http://www.atnextcom.com/linuxmain.htm

http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?actio n=techspec&options=TC&dpno=976204#scroll

Suddenly, the California settlement makes sense

[Daniel Phillips]

It now becomes clear that California's intention was to give Microsoft enough rope to hang themselves. In other words, settle and wait for them to violate, as Microsoft always does. In retrospect, that was brilliant. The next move is up to us.

For starters, one of the key elements of the settlement is that Microsoft's APIs (and file formats as well?) were supposed to become readily available for the purpose of interoperabilty. While the exact wording of the settlement may be subject to interpretation, the intent is not: competitors were supposed to be able to use information provided by Microsoft to create products that interoperate. That did not happen. It's now up to us to point out in simple, precise terms, how Microsoft violated the intent of the settlement.

That's just the first big breach that occured to me, I'm sure there are more. If we handle this correctly, Microsoft will shortly be back in court with a problem that even the DOJ won't be able to sweep under the carpet.

Re:Johnny Cash, dead at 55.

[Anonymous Coward]

Dipshit, he was 71.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/12/cash .o bit/index.html

Oh that is just priceless...

[Fly Ricky - The Wine]

We recommend that you provide supporting documentation such as written contracts or correspondence with Microsoft that relates to your complaint. If you are able to provide documentation to support your complaint, please attach the file in either Word (.doc) or WordPerfect (.wpd) format below.

How about 'as a text file'? In all fairness though, the site is probably a template that the DOJ uses for all anti-trust cases. Still, the people who made that sure weren't thinking. hehe

great . . .

[KanshuShintai]

Now when do we get a RIAA-Antitrust.gov (and any other *-Antitrust.gov's) in addition to this?

There's more to complain about than just M$.

Re:Nitpicking

[Bob Cat - NYMPHS]

The original question (which was modded as Troll for some reason) was: if this is a *state* government site, why is it a .gov, which *used* to be US gov only? If every government entity in the US starts using sites like dogcatcher.gov, it's just going to confuse people. dogcatcher.sanfrancisco.ca.us is a hell of a lot more informative.

The DNS is just going to hell, isn't it?

...and more whining

[Anonymous Coward]

" Your examples hold no relevance to what I was saying."

But what if you want to use your own saran-wrap inside the Captain Crunch box instead of the wax paper? The examples are quite relevant, being about whining about part of an included package being included in the package.

"As for the Delco radio, at least you can take it out and sell it to someone." ...the same goes for Windows in that PC.

Re:...and more whining

[brsmith4]

"As for the Delco radio, at least you can take it out and sell it to someone." ...the same goes for Windows in that PC.

Yeah, you go ahead and try it. I've got a bridge in brooklyn and some beach front property in arizona that i'd like to sell you.

dns lacking

[jroysdon]

DNS admin needs to add Microsoft-Antitrust.gov. How many folks don't type 'www' these days? Rather, how many non-tech folks won't think to try http://www.Microsoft-Antitrust.gov when http://Microsoft-Antitrust.gov fails?

yeah!

[pyrrho]

morals are stupid!

Microsoft.gov, on the other hand...

[Atario]

...is running IIS 9.0 on Windows 2007 LIIN[1] Edition. [1] LIIN = Linux Is Illegal Now.

Re:Word after 5.2 or so

[ianscot]

And I still think that MSWord 5.2a was the best word processor to exist. It's a high point that hasn't again been reached.

Weird to read you saying it. I would've put it at around 5.1a -- the decent, simple toolbar -- but basically I've run across loads of people who give a rip who say Word 5.something was the best mainstream word processor they've used. Almost a universal sentiment among people who really know and use the nuts and bolts of a WP -- as opposed to the masses, who really should be using something like a *Works app for what they do.

Coincidentally, though, isn't it with the Office suite that packaged Word 6.x that MS began to completely dominate the world of "productivity suites"? Where I worked, that was the one that stomped out all the Lotus 1-2-3s and Wordperfects. Shrewd sales technique in the corporate world -- but Word 6.0 was bloated, klunky trash as a product next to the earlier one, and it was just change for change's sake from then on.

Re:SPARTACUS!

[hplasm]

Who the fuck mentioned Spartacus? I said he's Sparticus - different guy.

Fucknozzle.