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Cell Phones May Spread Infections
CHaN_316 writes "Yahoo is running an article talking about how cell phones from health workers are helping spread dangerous infections in hospitals. 'They found that 12 percent of healthcare providers' cell phones were contaminated with [Acinetobacter baumannii]. The results are disturbing because [it] has the propensity to develop resistance to almost all available antibiotics ... Cell phones provide a large dry surface that allows survival of A. baumannii--it requires no nutrients ... [it] is found in intensive care units, and the mortality rate among infected patients is very high -- between 50 and 60 percent.' The hospital that conducted this research no longer allows the use of cell phones, and are switching to devices that don't require hand contact like pagers." So how long before someone develops a cell phone that can be dunked in alcohol or run through the autoclave to sterilize it?
Douglas Adams was, once again, an incredible visionary (even if he didn't intend to be one).
"Trust me - I know what I'm doing."
- Sledge Hammer
So how long before someone develops a cell phone that can be dunked in alcohol
Samsung already has. They may not have intended it but mine has been accidently soaked in booze more times than I care to (or can) remember.
Trolling is a art,
Alright, but how many consumer phones are also a breeding ground for this sort of thing now? I'm sure the bacteria spread fairly quickly, so I have to wonder. Also, how would a consumer clean such an infected phone without destroying it?
EVIL Verizon Guy calls the hospital ICU...
Ring...
"Can you hear me now?"
"Good!"
EVIL Verizon Guy hangs up, cackles madly...
So now I have to worry about two kind's of bugs on my cell phone... The diseased bug and the FBI...
[[ the only 15 letter word that is spelled without repeating a letter is uncopyrightable: it may soon be, however. ]]
And while we're at it, we should sterilise the healthcare workers too. Honestly, this is just another knee-jerk pogrom against a new technology, wasting money that could have been better spent elsewhere.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
They always said that they didn't want you to use your phone in the hospital, as it would interfere with hospital equipment. Turns out it interferes with your own equipment. Heart, lungs, etc...
I own an ericson R310 Waterproof shockproof phone (antenae that looks like a sharks fin). I noticed that during the recent sars outbreak they seemed to be the phone of choice for the men in bunny suits!
Why wouldn't a pager require hand contact? I bet what he really meant to say was _head_ contact.
That would make a lot more sense.
...another reason to dislike cellphones. They really are toxic!
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
When a pager beeps or vibrates, you can (depending on the model) just look at the top screen as its clipped to your waist to see the number, your hand doesn't have to touch the pager.
I keep my pager in my desk drawer. When I'm not in the office, I set it to the most annoying ring/beep, and stick it up in a ceiling tile. Hilarity ensues for co-workers in office.
that health care workers DO take all kinds of sterile environment precautions, right?
So how long before someone develops a cell phone that can be dunked in alcohol or run through the autoclave to sterilize it?
Actually, you can dunk your phone in alcohol right now if you wanted (minus the screen)... I was a part-time cell phone dealer about 2 years ago, whenever a phone had water damage or got dirty internally, all we did was take the phone apart, get a toothbrush and rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) and start scrubbing away at the corrosion.
Business \Busi"ness\, n.;
A scam in which all people involved perceive as beneficial...
Wouldn't simply irradiating the cel phone do the trick?
Maybe some internal parts would need to be shielded to withstand it, but the external surface could be sterilized that way.
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
It makes sense that in hospitals, there should be some sterilizable version of everything. They don't use operating equipment that can't be sterilized, so why not cellphones? The only problem is, Excess sterilization leads to super-bugs, so maybe just administering an immunization for this bug would be a better idea. :)
stuff |
Use an ethelyne oxide sterilizer
More interesing recent story on cell phones:
Mobiles 'betray' cheating Italians.
"So how long before someone develops a cell phone that can be dunked in alcohol or run through the autoclave to sterilize it? "
Never will happen. The market is too small. It will never be profirtable
"73% of quotes on the Internet are made up" -Ben Franklin
NEWS FLASH: If you have bacteria on your skin and that spot touches an object, other people touching that object can pick up the bacteria! What can you do to protect your children? Are you safe? Watch Channel 14 KSLSHDOT tonight at 10 and find out!
This isn't news. This is fear-based ratings pandering by the source.
blog |
If cell phones harbor nasty germs, what about those PDA and Tablet PC medical terminals? The construction is equivalent -- lots of plastic, elastomeric buttons, touch screens, stylus, etc. Worse, medical terminals are more likely than are cell phones to be handled by multiple people.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Heck, come to think of it, the plastic bag would let sound through without a problem. Just get a cell phone that you don't need to fold or unfold to use, and heat-seal it in a fresh sterile plastic bag every time you enter the hospital, and remove the plastic bag every time you leave. That would do the trick, wouldn't it?
Actually, you can sterilize just about anything but the cost and time are prohibitive. There is a sterilization process that uses gas where I have sterilized entire computers, monitors, mouse and keyboards that were placed in operating rooms. Also I have sterlized sensitive electronics that could not take either pressure or temperature that survived gas sterilization just fine. It is a trade off between cost of the sterilization process, the time it takes the equipment to be done, and the usefullness of the equipment.
Well lets see here, send all the sick to one place, get the same subset of the population to treat them all and wierdly enough you get concentrations in infections (including all these wonderful antibiotic resistant/immune strains we are breeding with our idiotic farming and medical practices... but that's another rant for another day). Especially in and around those brave enough to be on the frontline as it were.
If you aren't sick, stay the hell away from hospitals or you will be.
Q.
Insert Signature Here
I thought people were not supposed to use cell phones in hospitals. Why are they even there?
Well, you can't autoclave it. They usually only do this with certain metals, since they can withstand the heat involved.
You could theoretically dip it in a biocide of some sort (they use stuff tougher than alcohol in operating rooms and on used surgical tools) but there's a "nook & cranny" problem. When designing non-metal surgical tools, you have to make sure you don't make any tiny cracks, holes, or grooves where stuff can cling and avoid the biocide. The last cell phone I saw had a lot of nooks and crannies. You'd possibly need to redesign one to be completely sealed, which is getting more feasible because of wireless battery charging technologies and wireless connectivity technologies.
Another alternative is that you could stick it in a sterile container and use it wirelessly, but then your wireless headset would still need to be sterilizable.
-- Fratz, human
Why switch back to pagers, as the article suggests? Wire up with an earbud, get voice-activated dialing, and you're off and running without having to touch it all the time.
Sure, cell phones can spread disease. But so can any other dry surface. Like skin, clothing, stethoscopes, etc.
The nasal passages of more than half the health care workers that work in a hospital for more than a year are colonized with MRSA (methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus).
Banning cell phones is not the answer. Universal precautions is. Universal precautions includes cleaning your hands and instruments after every single patient contact. How many health care workers do that, do you suppose?
alias uptime="echo '5:33pm up 22342352324 days, 6:28, 2124315623 users, load average: 2432.40, 12312.31, 123123.19'"
Cars, movie theaters, gas stations, airplanes, and now hospitals. Perhaps the list of where you CAN use your cellphone would be shorter?
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Remember, Amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic
My new product, "Safone", is an adapted rubber preservative, designed to fit snugly over your mobile phone. There are two models, one for the standard vertical phone, and one for the flip-phones popular in Asia.
Safone(tm) comes in handy 5-packs, in a choice of colours and flavours, and for only $19.50 you can get three packets now.
It's time to roll on your Safone now!!
Don't phonome, Safone!
Ceci n'est pas une signature
While working at a hospital.... how about putting the mobile in a transparent plastic bag, and discard the bag after use?
Seems fairly easy to implement.
- "They misunderestimated me."
Do you mean something like Nokia 6250? Anyways, at least Finnish hospitals don't allow GSM phones on their premises. Worry about mixing radio transmitters and heart monitors, I guess.
--
Binaries may die but source code lives forever
I would think this would be obvious. Anything that you put directly against your skin, and in this case right next to your ear, no less, is going to pick up organic matter from you. And that organic matter may include pathogens. It isn't a surprise that you can spread them to others.
;)
It's just like using other people's keyboards. You have NO idea where it has been or what it has been through
so I'm not surprised/affected in the least by this.
c'mon people, any object that is carried -everywhere- or used daily (potentially used by or in the immediate proximity of sick people) provides an opportunity for disease to spread. particularly when it's something that people never clean.
i honestly hope no-one is surprised by this.
it's reminicent of the studies that surprised you all a few years back, that showed the average computer workstation is dirtier (bacteria) than the average bathroom.
primarily because: how often do you clean around your PC? actually picking it up, moving it around, and wiping it all down with sanitizing pads? (particularly keyboard,mouse,wrist pads,power buttons,etc)
ok, now how often do you wipe down your cell phone with a sanitizing pad? exactly.
your phone is almost certainly more filthy than your toilet. think about that.
and while you do your reactionary one time cleaning, don't forget your pager, pda, land-lines, av remotes, video gaming controllers, camera, keys, wallet, laptop, and car interior (radio, steering wheel,shifter,beltbuckler,door handles,etc).
me? my neuroses keeps me well protected from you damned dirty apes.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
Simple... Do not use cellphones in hospitals.
All radio (send) devices in hospitals should be (and are in some hospitals) banned due to possible interferrence with sensative medical equipment.
Warning: This sig contains a small bug. ==> *
In many countries in Europe, cell phones are simply forbidden in hospitals. They must be turned off, and (in the most extreme case) left at the entrance counter.
I fail to see why some people (nurses, health care workers) are allowed to use cell phones in a hospital, while most others are not.
Ban cell phones in hospitals, or at least require personnel to leave them switched off in their lockers, and the problem is solved... isn't it?
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
That'll sterillize it AND make it look Ghetto too....
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
You can alcohol- or autoclave-sterilize any cell phone today! It just won't work afterwards.
Seriously though...*doodeedooeeannoyingpolyphonicringTONE* "Hello? Yeah. Uh huh. Well I'm just working on a patient right now. Uh huh. A gallon of milk and some laundry detergent? Ok. Yes I'll remember. I said I'd remember! Last time? But... Yeah last time there was a big traffic jam and I just wanted to get home. Hold on for a sec, I need to install this catheter. Ok, I'm back. What do you mean I don't love you? What? That's not true! I'm sorry? When did I... No that's not what I meant. Ok I'm sorry. What? No, my patients are not more important than you. Uh huh. Yeah. Hmm. Well I'll try harder from now on. Yeah? Ok. All right. Yes I'll remember: milk and detergent. Ok. I love you too. What? Oh. Buh-bye. Yes I love you too. Ok. Bye then."
...
The nasal passages of more than half the health care workers that work in a hospital for more than a year are colonized with MRSA (methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus).
Banning cell phones is not the answer. Universal precautions is. Universal precautions includes cleaning your hands and instruments after every single patient contact. How many health care workers do that, do you suppose?
cell-phone stanitizer/cleaner.... oh what do the brits call them....
9M unenployed americans, and how many freeking cellphones all over the place....
You can today!
I tried dunking mine in alcohol and it worked. The phone successfully entered the liquid and there was enough alcohol to completely submerge the phone.
I tried the autoclave too, and that worked too. The phone was placed in the autoclave and the autoclave was turned on then it ran through a full 10 minute sterilization cycle.
No more bacteria on my phone!
--- Jason Olshefsky
Karma: Poser (mostly affected by adding this line long after everyone else did)
With current technology, cell phones have voice/speech recognition, decent battery life, and have decreased in size approximately equal to a pager. There is no reason a small cell phone-like device a little larger than a Star Trek Communicator could not be manufactured. All the technology is there, and with low power embedded AltiVec'd-PowerPC chips, intelligent voice (user) command recognition should not be a problem to engineer into such a small device. The problem is there must be a market for such a device. The other problem is that one loses the "private" conversation with such a device unless s/he is alone. But if the device is used for work place communication, privacy is of no concern.
The bacteria have always been there and always will be present. Cell phones shouldn't be engineered to destroy bacteria because as we educated folk know, biological systems always find a way to work around obsticles. The phones should not be used in a hospital setting. Hospitals are notorious breeding grounds for all kinds of nasty bugs; I know, I worked in one for 7 years. The best way to prevent spreading bacteria is to clean all surfaces effectively with the appropriate surfactant and minimize contact.
I know for a fact that the Samsung ACH460 (or maybe is it the AHC? I'm out of the country at the moment) can handle a bit of liqour, wine, beer... It also seems to posses magical abilities to keep track of who I called the night before when I can't remember.
I keep dropping it in my beer when I get drunk.
Never did it any harm.
Surely we can just crank up the transmission power of the phones and fry the little beggars!? Die Die Die!
AT&ROFLMAO
I am a nurse. Cell phones aren't the problem, people are the problem.
Want to stop the spread of the pathogens on your cell phone or _______ ? It's easy.
1. Wash your fscking hands before and after you examine any patient.
2. Don't use the device during an examination.
Problem solved.
You don't have to kill the little germies on the phone, just wash them off your hands, for %#^$&! sake.
The best way to do is to be.
Every damn hospital I've ever set foot in outright forbids the use of cell phones on hospital premises. (Use as defined in having it switched on)
Apparently they can lead to nasty interactions with some of the delicate electronics they have running in hospitals and kill patients in the process.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
Certainly the cell phone is a conveinent place to pick up bugs. But so are doorknobs, restrooms, etc.
The real problem...and working in public health I know this hasn't changed even since the advent of germ theory...is just getting the damn workers (I *include* physicians) in hospitals to wash their hands corrrectly before working with a patient. I still see plenty of infectious disease workers more than happy to walk out of a bathroom without washing their hands.
And even if you do, when you touch just about anything (or just wait, as the stuff as you left on your hand grows) you could be putting patients...esp immunosuppresed patients (HIV/chemo/elderly) at great danger.
I always shudder seeing hospital staff walking outside on the streets in their scrubs, shoe covers and hair covers like they are some magical shield that will never pick up pathogens harmful to the patients.
I, for one, welcome our new toxic wireless overlords.
Now, I can kill my enemies with a simple "Here, it's for you..."
In the past, I had to pass them a tin can connected to a string that previously contained bad salmon.
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
Studies of cutting boards show that wooden cutting boards are safer than plastic ones. The research shows that you can find bacteria on plastic cutting boards (even ones that where hand-scrubbed), but that even unwashed wooden boards have no bacteria on the surface after they dry. Apparently capilliary action pulls bacteria into the wood's pores and away from the surface of the wood, leaving the surface sterile.
Wooden cellphone skins would make a nice retro-fashion statement. For extended use, the wooden phone skins could be removed and autoclaved.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
It would appear that they do indeed.
First hand knowledge: Folks in the ICU constantly wash hands. Each station has a sink and *everyone* washes with soap and water before and after going to a patient's bed. Infection is the biggest risk in ICU.
The phones, I'm sure aren't the biggest problem. I was surprised I could go in there with my feet and hair uncovered. I'm sure even one "clean" human hair or dandruff (sic) flake has more germs on it than a cell-phone.
The solution? Eat garlic according to this article on BBC news. Its a suprisingly effective antibiotic, without all the drawbacks of normal antibiotics.. Me? I swear by it. Also a strong curry followed by a few beers usually kills all those germs. You can read about another cause of antibiotic-resistant superbugs here.. This article is also interesting - I think it will be proven true, a few years after everyone has stopped laughing. And all this time you thought it was alternative hippy bullshit.. :-) Oh and Douglas Adams rules..
"You lied to me! There is a Swansea!"
Hospitals do everything to keep medical instruments not only desinfected but also sterile. But when it comes to furniture/floor/etc they do a really shoddy job. You stand a good chance to contract a fascinating disease whenever they put you there. I once worked in a hospital and the first thing I learned was not to take personal stuff with me. They provided the stylish white clothing and everything else I'd need. I wouldn't want anything at home that I had with me when I pulled some old people out of their own poo. Stupidity is a disease that is wide spread in all professions.
20 minutes into the future
Yeeeeee haaaaaa.......if the bacteria is on the surface of the cell phone, and of course "everyone knows" that cell phones cause cancer, mayber we are going to have the bacteria mutate into a 3 eyed fish from the radiation coming off the cell phone? Yipee! three eyed fish.....yummmmmmmmmmmm
I'll gladly volunteer my pager for autoclave survival testing.
Someone should really think of some sort of built in counter-measure. Perhaps alter the phones so that they emit low-level radiation. This would likely destroy the harmful bacteria.
Infinite recursion looms...
Then we'd see the /. headline "Plastic Bags May Spread Infections." The infections aren't coming from the cellphone itself, but from whoever touches it, therefore the same problem will exist however the cellphone is covered.
(Duh. I can't believe I have to explain that one. Still, it was modded +5 Interesting so I suppose some folks just haven't got the ability to think about things for a microsecond or two.)
Dunking the user in alcohol has a number of merits though...:-)
Pagers aren't really hands free at all. i mean you still have to put your and on it to see who it is, plus you must take them off from time to time. Pagers could also be a large carrier of dangerous infections.
And it won't ring in the middle of a dinner date anymore! Woot!
I knew sending all the telephone sanetizers to another planet was a bad idea! Where's our superior intellect now?
--Not to be worried, Pitr fix.
I'm staggered that you can use mobile phones in American hospitals. They aren't allowed in the UK and from what I remember most of europe - they interfere with all the monitoring equipment.
My ex is a doctor. During her junior doctor days in hospital medicine ( Intern type thing ) they had a pair of Gameboys sealed in sterile plastic bags for the theater staff to use during long operations.
I also have a Samsung - mine survived a full cycle through a washing machine, powered on, with no ill effects. Actually, it has developed a nice fresh smell since then.
presumably it derives it's energy from an internal cold fusion plant.
This time I could be arsed.
this is what you get for sending off all the telephone sanitizers in a space ship to crash on another planet, just because they're a bunch of useless bloody loonies.
though i guess it's better than being eaten by a giant mutant space goat.
(anyway, that's the first thing that came to mind when i read this.)
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
there's an article at wired today about a cure for superbugs:
_ pr .html
bacteriophages!
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.10/phages
Wait a minute... every time I step foot in the hospital, they tell me to turn off my cell phone because it interferes with their equipment. If the phones have to be turned off, why are the doctors and nurses even carrying them?
-- Gun
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
As far as METALS not being able to withstand the heat? WTF? autoclaves only get to around 120 deg C and 10-15 atmospheres - pretty much ANY metal can withstand that - except I guess mercury ;-)
As far as sterilizing non-heat safe stuff, there is ethylene-oxide sterilization available - it's how most of our delicate electronic stuff (arthroscopy cameras, lenses, etc) is sterilized - lots o' nooks and crannies, but that's not a problem for gas anyway.
..........FULL STOP.
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"I'm The Bounty Bear. I will find him anywhere. I'm searching."
To cure the dryness apply liberal amouts of KY2. No more problem if the bacteria only lives in dry areas.
This is already done in most hospitals by using an EO (Ethylene Oxide) autoclave. Most hospitals have one to clean rubber instuments that would melt in the regular clave. EO is very dangerous stuff (you have to wear a detection badge), and is especially dangerous to pregnant women. The temp for a gas clave is right around body temp, so it should work fine if you remove the battery from the cell phone first.
Can you hear me gag? hic...Good!
I'm pretty sure cell phones in the past weren't the bacterial breeding ground that they are now. At least, not until this product came along..
Did anyone catch that the infection rate for hands (24%) was higher than the infection rate for cell phones (12%)? This suggests that there's a breakdown in the sanitary practices of the personal, not an inherent problem with cell phones or other common surfaces in the hospital. Hospitals have always been fertile ground for harboring nasty germs. Does anyone have information on successful germ control. Or is (24%) hand contamination typical.
How about "Condoms May Spread Infections." The infections aren't coming from the penis itself, but from whoever touches it, therefore the same problem will exist however the penis is covered.
... whoops, guess someone saw how overrated it was ... I suppose some folks have the ability to think about things for a microsecond or two.)
(Duh. I can't believe I have to explain that one. Still it was modded +3 Insightful
Ahhhh, in the day, before the EPA, OSHA and FDA got their hands on workplace health hazards, we used to use Carbon Tet to clean EVERYTHING.
how long before someone develops a cell phone that can be dunked in alcohol or run through the autoclave to sterilize it
Yeah, then people will forget clean them.
The basic problem is that antibiotics has made us all blase about the dangers of Bacteria. So even basic hygene measures, like washing your hands, are being ignored. Every doctor I've had has washed their hands AFTER examining me. But I remember as a child they also did so BEFORE examining me... not seen them do that for years.
But not to worry, soon our lazy approach to the use of antibiotics will make most bacteria resistant in a decade or two... so we'll soon get the knack again one day.
Sarcasm aside, I'm sure I read something to back this up... 10% of patients in UK hospitals catch somthing whilst in hospital owing to poor hygene (and it can't be mobiles as they've always been banned).
Do you mind, your karma has just run over my dogma.
How is cellphone any worst for transmitter disease than the landline phone used inside the hospital?
How can one read a pager with out using one's hand?
This article makes no sense.
Mandatory microwaving of cellphones for 60 second in the hospitals....
But wait, no one wants the leftover bacteria sneaking into the film cover opening of their TV dinners....
From SadGeezer:
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
I don't know about in hospitals, but I know they certainly spread the 'I don't know enough to shut the hell up in a movie theater' infection.
Disclaimer: MINAA (Mummy! I'm Not An Animal!)
While wiping the phone with an alcohol wipe would be beter than nothing, I don't think it would solve the problem. Most medical equipment which contacts the patient ia made smooth and wipeable so that there are no unwipeable cracks to harbour bacteria. Mobile phones are not: bacteria could go down the cracks alonside the buttons etc, and nestle inside the case, to be shaken out later.
I could imagine making a phone safe with a sort of "phone condom" - which could in turn be under a removable, sterilisable case so that it wouldn't look too ugly, but I have never seen such a thing.
The other point is tha thr most usefule thing about mobile is that you always have them on you. If you have to swap for a "safe" mobile on entering the hospital, you might as well use a landline.
A new acronym for AIDS - Audio Induced Disease Syndrome.
Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
Actually, I just got back from this conference.
The issue here is not so much that they're running around with A. baumanii on their phones; you could probably grow similarly nasty things from the one(s) currently hanging from your own person. The true emphasis of this study is the lack of appropriate handwashing and barrier precautions by hospital staff.
This is heavily overshadowed, of course, by the fact that we're rapidly running out of antibiotics that still work, thanks in part to the scores of parents who load their kids up with cipro every time they get a runny nose.
I used to work for a hospital's IT dept and part of the job was maintaining Nortel companion phones for one of the nursing depts. Every couple of months, they would bring a non-working phone to us saying it fell in a bucket of water. We always wonder why the nursing dept would keep a bucket of water at their station. Eventually, we learned that "bucket of water" was their term for "toilet." How's that for sanitary? :)
Actually, you have a good point. There is a problem currently with doctors not sanitizing enough in hospitals. Of all the people I've known who have had surgery, a large percent of them have developed some kind of infection like staph.
This website discusses how common the infection may really be. The bacteria is often best spread through contaminated instruments during things like surgery.
The hospital that conducted this research no longer allows the use of cell phones, and are switching to devices that don't require hand contact like pagers.
Because, as we all know, one can operate a pager with one's toes.Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
What percentage of large dry surfaces do cell phones constitute in hospitals?
If cell phones are a problem, I'd think that regular phones, desktops, countertops, garbage cans, stretchers, ventilation ducts, pens, PDA's, handrails, keyboards, monitors, walls, and floors would be a veritable public health nightmare. Yes, some of these things are cleaned from time to time, but many are not. When was the last time you saw a doctor wipe down his pen with alcohol?
They must be talking about those new anal pagers that give you the message by anal-braille. The anus has a pretty high concentration of sensory endings, so it makes perfect sense to use it instead of less sensitive parts like the hip or back. Plus it's close to where the pager is usually located anyway.
You may think that clean-up would be an issue, but you can buy these cute little disposable latex covers for the insertable part.
The article says 12% of cellphones are contaminated, and 50% of infected people die. Adding these up, we must conclude that 6% of people carrying a cellphone into ICUs will die.
6% is nothing to laugh at. I'm guessing somewhere, somebody inflated a number just to make it into the news.
The landline phone does not leave the hospital and go into the outside world, unlike your cell phone.
Although I have yet to see any kind of phone that can stand an autoclave, I personally know three hospital workers who have solved their own mobile phone problems by drowning the machines in the toilet :-)
emitters of radiation, one would think this wouldn't be a problem. ;>
It really comes down to hand-washing.
If you wash your hands between patients (and especially before going to see someone who's immune system has taken a hit... chemo, HIV, SCID, etc, etc), you'll cut down dramatically on the spread of disease.
The nosocomial, or hospital-acquired infections are the worst actors... multiply-resistant, and prevelant in the one location where sick and vulnerable people are gathered in one place.
This doesn't leave out healthcare workers. Your own commensal organisms that live on your skin and in your gut tend to be wild-type, and less-resistant than nosocomials.... until you wipe them out by doing something dumb, like taking antibiotics for an infection that's viral, or would clear up on its own given a little time (mild sinusitis, for example). This is why I advocate avoiding antibiotics unless clearly indicated... this includes taking antibiotics for infections that would get better with good wound care alone... like boils and smaller cutaneous abscesses. If you work in a health care facility, your normal bacterial population is the only thing protecting you from mass colonization with resistant bugs, particularly if you work with critically-ill patients. You don't want to get really sick with something, then find out there's nothing that can treat your infection... I've seen it happen to too many patients.
So yes, wash your hands... and don't take antibiotics unless you damned well NEED them... If I personally get sick, and all the antibiotics are going to do is shorten my disease course by a day or two, I'll skip them... I'm not sacrificing my precious normal flora for such a minimal gain.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Actually, there's already bacteria-unfriendly plastic in existence. All you'd really need is a faceplate/shell made of that stuff.
Although I bet the first guy to make one of those will make a small fortune selling them in all-white in medical mail-order catalogs...
-----------------------
You are what you think.
How does a pager not require hand contact? Dont you touch it? This is stupid the solution is to make health care workers actually wash their hands more. Plus, outpatient care generally results in fewer infections.
So, why would not they make a desk with UV lamp, where people can put their phones/PDAs/whatever else. Hard UV radiation is quite effective as a decontamination mechanism. In some countries (Russia, for example), UV lamp is used daily in examination rooms (while no humans are present, of course ;) ), to reduce amount of airborne contaminants in the air and on irradiated surfaces.
Not sure if it would harm the screen of cellphone (a simple UV protective transparent sticker would help) but all other surfaces would be clensed without problems. No?
Hyperom.com
Someone make me a cellphone made completely out of soap. After the initial prototype is complete, we can consider adding extra bells and whistles to the phone like pleasent scents. Consumers should be able to choose from a variety of scents like Spring Breeze, Summer Passion, Crisp Winter Air, or Beach (dead fish). Mmmm.... frilly soaps
"There is no spoon." - The Matrix
So how long before someone develops a cell phone that can be dunked in alcohol or run through the autoclave to sterilize it?
I'm sure that will happen.... shortly after someone invents a ziplock baggy.
So how long before someone develops a cell phone that can be dunked in alcohol or run through the autoclave to sterilize it?
I killed a waterproof watch with alcohol and gasoline. I accidently knocked a gas can over onto my arm and drenched my watch. I tried everything to get the smell out. When I finally soaked it overnight in rubbing alcohol, it got the smell out but it stopped working. I guess alcohol can get in some places that water can't.
Charging it would be interesting. I own the Braun Oral-B 3D toothbrush and it's completely sealed. It has no metal contacts for charging. It must use induction to charge while it's sitting in its cradle.
-=- Many seek good nights and lose good days.
You're right, but the news article also seems to have conveniently forgotten to give us that number. If a high percentage of contaminated phones lead to infections, then my point stands, where are all the people dropping dead after visits to ICUs? If a low percentage, then why worry so much about contaminated cellphones? Just give them a good wipe on the way out and you're done.
TThe solution is trivial. Require workers to shrink-wrap or vacuum wrap their phone when they come in... provide a vacuum or shrink wrap machine (available for a couple of hundred bucks) for the purpose. The phone will work fine inside the shrink-wrap, and you just rip it off before leaving the hospital. Voila. :j
The problem with antibiotic abuse in health care workers is particularly troubling, as you describe. I'm like you, I don't take them unless my clinical situation indicates it--meaning I have the right drug for the right bug and I'm getting worse instead of better.
Don't even get me started on anti-bacterial soaps.... Not only does their misuse compound the problems we've discussed above, but these soaps only kill off the same flora that our antibiotics (particularly the cheap and safe ones) do, leaving the drug-resistant flora relatively unaffected. As they get washed into our communal water-treatment facilities, the drug-resistant strains are then left with reduced competiton for the limited, consumable resources (like food) that they need to live and multiply.
Because of the use of the "New and Improved Anti-bacterial ____," we encourage the survival and colonization of the very bugs that cause the illnesses for which we don't have good and/or cheap antibiotics. I particularly regret seeing antibacterials used routinely at home around infants, which is the use for which they are most aggressively marketed....
But, I've wandered sufficiently off topic for now.
The best way to do is to be.
Then what you need to do is to sterilize the cell-phone covers every day. Almost every Nokia phone can have its covers taken off completly.
They woud probably deform if you tried to autoclave them. An alcohol-based sterilization would be better, with a little extra wipe of the screen.
Now if only a similar scare could make it into the headlines saying "Using a cellphone when driving can give you SARS." Or better still, "Using a cellphone when driving and simultaniously talking at the top of your voice so that everyone else stopped at the lights can hear you as you wave your arms around emphatically can seriously increase risk of developing a serious illness." Maybe then I could get to work without having at least one near-death experience every morning.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
although many hospitals do not permit cellphones (including doctors) because of the effect upon equipment (in fact, many insulate so standard cells don't work), they do have a special type of phone which will work inhouse and not tamper with the signals. And these phones are no more different WRT cleanliness.
If the first thing a caregiver does when they walk in and potentially touch you is *not* to wash their hands, they're likely introducing bugs - either to you or to the next patient they don't wash their hands for.
Remember the episode of Seinfeld where Poppi is in the bathroom stall with Jerry and Jerry sees him walk out without washing his hands, bragging how he will personally make a perfect meal? (Jerry then won't eat any of that food) That's exactly what you're talking about with any caregiver who makes contact with anyone|anything. Period. Endofsentence.
What would really be cool is a cellphone that you could dunk in alcohol to sterilize it and refill its fuel cell at the same time!
when can you use cell phones in hospitals?? EVERY hospital i've been in in the last 5 years has signs at every entrance saying, "Cellular phones may interfere with life saving equipment. TURN THEM OFF"
I write code.
My favorite is when they wear nice gloves, at the dentist for example, and are continually opening this or that drawer with their gloves. I suppose they think the germs from my mouth aren't going to get onto the drawer, because they have gloves on??!! Of course they wipe all surfaces down with antiseptic, even every nook and cranny behind those drawer pull knobs, between every patient. Right.
Then there was the dental assistant who used her own five-second rule (oops, wrong story) to quickly pick up and start to re-use a tool she had dropped on the floor.
Apply the same mentality to a cell phone, which has much greater mobility in and out of the environment, and it does make an effective germ vector.
. . . Star Trek communicators!
Crusher to Picard: Stop calling me when I'm working.
1) dunk healthcare workers in 90% ethanol thrice daily. It will sanitize, sterilize, and blotto-ize.
2) autoclave healthcare workers following each procedure they are involved in. Life insurance policies may not be taken out by healthcare workers.
3) (this one is serious) There are little protective slips for just about every part of a healthcare worker's body. There are face masks, gowns, shoe-covers, latex gloves, hair nets, caps, and goggles. Why not require that all cellphones in use by on-the-clock healthcare workers be kept within little, sterile, porous pouches made of material like facemasks? They can be semitransparent and still sterile, disposable, usable, and inexpensive. And just like changing gloves, you can swap them out whenever you get blood, bile, saliva, urine, and/or semen on yourself (preferably not all at the same time).
Sounds like a burdgeoning new market for the condom/prophylactic industry. Perhaps, we could soon buy mobile phone rubbers that work just like surgical gloves. Put them on the phone to protect from germs, and change regularly to prevent spread of infeciton.
Sometimes I worry that I'll develop Alzheimer's disease, but no one will notice.
Silver has long been used as an effective agent against germs. Perhaps the sterling silver faceplate will become standard issue on mobile phones.
Sometimes I worry that I'll develop Alzheimer's disease, but no one will notice.
what a relieve; i OWN skin!
kidding!
okay (got the germ), i got this finger full of germs what do i have to do now to get sick please?
can someone point a HOW-TO out somewhere?
OK, it shall not be hard for cell phones to spread Outlook Viruses through SMS's and MMSs alike.
I can foresee these biological Pathogens merging thenselves whith their eletronic counterparts on the CDMA Processor Cores, and wipping out the information society as we know it.
-><- no
Like there aren't any other dry surfaces on objects being toted around by people passing through hospital wards?
Oh, come on.
See everyone? Your cell phone CAN spread viruses!
-R
Phones only spread infections when people share the phones. So a pay phone or other public phone would do more to spread infection than a cell phone.
The fact that we are all running around with our private little phones means that we are exposing ourselves to fewer phone carried bugs than we would get by using a common phone.
I really can't remember the last time I handed my phone to a stranger. In fact, its been several month since anyone other than myself has touched my cell phone.
As for companies that have use a common phone for people on call...they really should just get forwardable 800 number...that way they could swith duties by pointing to different phones...it is much more convenient.
Except, however, the one form of antibiotic that is frowned upon by professionals. Let me introduce you to colloidal silver. It's a suspension of silver particles in water... and guess what? It has been shown to kill germs including bacteria, viruses, yeast, mold, fungus and parasites, many of which are resistant to antibiotics.
I know many of you are saying "snake oil" right now, but I've used the stuff to cure ear infections, and it works a lot faster and at a much lower price than antibiotics.
You can even make your own.
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
Cell phones can bake your brain and make you go senile.
Cell phones can cause you to have accidents while driving.
Cell phones can make you unable to have children.
Cell phones can make other people irritable and cause fights to break out.
Cell phone usage can clog up the radio spectrum.
Cell phones are clearly a choking hazard.
Cell phone calling plans can make people poor.
Did I leave anything out?
I first read about this in a 1996 Science News article. This article mentions work by Philip H. Kass and his colleagues at the University of California, Carl A. Batt of Cornell University and his colleagues, and Dean O. Cliver. Sorry, but I don't have any citations for articles in more scholarly journals.
Most importantly, it appears that even if you cut up another food on a previously contaminated (by now dry) wooden cutting board, the likelihood of contamination is low. Wood apparently pulls the bacteria fairly deeply into the board (about 1 mm down), out of reach of subsequent activities. By contrast, bacteria can survive in the knife-cuts of plastic cutting boards and spread during subsequent uses.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
I gave up my cell phone years ago when I realized that 75% of the time I saw a cell phone, I saw it attached to the ear of a jackass, and I'm not taking any chances... I quit the things cold turkey.
Not sure if the cell phone causes its user to become a jackass, or if jackasses use cell phones, but why take the chance unnecessarily?
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
Cellphones already spread one infection;
Friends don't let friends call and drive.
(supposedly, talking on a cellphone and driving is like driving while under the influence of alcohol)
-Chompster
This isn't a redundant post; I just set my threshold to 6.
There is a common dilusion spread by the popular media that 'germs' be it bacteria or what ever are the evils of mankind. In fact the human body is littered with trillions of germs, of a vast variety. If you want to find a bug, you will. I know, I am a physician and I work in a burn intensive care unit. The breading ground for more bugs than any intensive care setting known to man. The populus is absolutely paranoid about things that they understand nothing about. Furthermore, it is unlikely that any attempt to prevent the spread of infection from cell phones will have any effect on the overall outcome as far as hospital infection rates are concerned. There have been several well done studies that have shown infection rates to be no higher for surgeons who scrub for 5 minutes prior to a case and those that only wash their hands for a short period of time. There are many factors that go into getting an infection. Ultimatly we can only afford so many stupid hat tricks to make us feel like we are making a difference. Lastly, though I have not read this study, the real question is whether or not the conclusions are even valid based on the data. What was their negative control, are they just spewing numbers that have no coorelation. Did they compare the rate of infection to patients by physsicians who carry cell phones compared to those that did not. Just because it falls under the guise of science does not mean it is good science, in fact it may be HORRIBLE, missleading, and down right dead wrong.
Bathe regularly in a vat of bacteria. Better to keep the immune system nice and strong....
Is it so hard to wipe off the phone with some 99% iso-alchohal swabs???? you dont need to drench the thing, you just need to wipe it down... 99% alchohal will kiil anything... or bleech wipes. no need to ban phones as long as your being sanitary.
But then again there is always going to be that stupid asshole who wipes back to front.
well? why not ? So the plasticizer would need added UV protection, but otherwise it would work fine.
Where I work (biotech company), I spray 70% denatured ethanol on my calculator, mouse, and phone frequently. They've never crapped out on me because of it. I imagine the results would be similar for a cell phone.
Nice Marmot
usually i just add a 1/2 capful of bleach to the soapy water and sponge to clean anything like utensils, cutting boards (wood or plastic) and dishes.
a slut did tulsa
I have not seen much of this technology at my local hospital yet, but it seems like this would be a great application for antimicrobal plastics. The problem with any kind of sterilization procedure is that serious problems can start with just one transfer and sterilization can only be realistically performed at some deterimined interval during which multiple exchanges are likely to happen. The key is making an environment that is unwelcoming to microbes in the first place.
/., but wasn't able to find the article.
This company claims to have a working product.
Not sure if it's the same stuff or not, but This page (google cache) also talks about the development of such materials.
I first heard about this stuff right here on
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Everything needs to be taken in context. Acetinobacter is a very uncommon infection, even among ICU patients. A better study would study whether the presence of cell phones actually changed the infection rate, not just colonization rates. Hospitals are colonized by may different bacteria, but that is not necessarily clinically significant. It only makes a difference if people actually get infected at a higher rate.
Elian Paiuk
Really, what doesn't pose a risk? How about shoes? Visitors? What about patients?! If they prevent sick patients from being in the hospital, they can't spread germs, right?
Someone spilled red wine on my Siemens, which must have coated the light behind the screen with a dark purple film.
To this day the screen doesn't light up nearly as bright as it once did.
Certainly the worst bathroom is worse than the worst computer, and people only tend to remember the bad bathrooms.
Not only do they remember...sometimes they even take pictures.
Posting anonymously for the first time in over a year for obvious reasons...
Um, I don't know about where these guys are but in EVERY hospital I've ever been in it was completely aganst the rules it have your cell phone on at all. The cell phone's signal affects the reading of the telemetry units in the ICU (Intensive Care Unit). My mom, who works in a hospital is constantly having to remind patients and visitors to tunr off their cell phones. It seems very strange to me that any hospital would rely on cell phone to contact their staff.
-Department Head of the Department of Redundancy, Department Head