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Word Processors: One Writer's Retreat

Charlie Dickinson writes "Writers get attached to the implement that puts words from head and heart on paper. Hemingway favored carpenter pencils for his drafts. Possibly only a blunt pencil lead would bear the vitality of words flowing from his fingertips. More recently, amid PCs on Everyperson's desktop, Northwest novelist David James Duncan noted his lengthy The Brother's K was lovingly crafted on a typewriter. Often individualistic, writers must feel free to accept or refuse new writing technology and answer only to their muse." Dickinson walks through some of the choices writers face (or have faced) in their choice of tools, and champions his own favorite -- which isn't a fancy "word processor" at all. Read on below.

Personally, when the PC revolution got underway, I bought an Apple IIe soon after its introduction. VisiCalc caught my eye. As did Flight Simulator, and going online with a 300-baud modem to local computer bulletin boards. But when it came to writing -- in those days, three drafts of a first novel -- I would not abandon my trusty Hermes portable typewriter. The Apple would not tempt me to some writing Eden. The complexity of computers, I sensed, could only sap the creative process.

This reluctance to mix computers with writing ended abruptly in 1988: I began writing professionally. At different writing jobs, I made use of whatever hardware/software combo the employer had. I fashioned text with PCs, Macs, Sun workstations, and still deemed any personal writing project at night better suited to the beloved Hermes.

I soon realized storing words on electronic media meant the professional wordsmith also did "desktop publishing." I had to worry about font selection, repagination, stylesheets. I wondered when I'd have time to find the right word, the original phrase. Once, while "writing" a software manual, I commented that I'd spent far more time formatting than actually writing. That comment went unanswered. I had a sure sense I needed to make an adjustment to new priorities.

Still, I couldn't shake the idea something was being lost when writers got embroiled in desktop publishing. After five years, I gave up the software manuals, the marketing newsletters, to refocus on personal writing. And for the first time, I thought about moving my writing to that Apple IIe. I hesitated. The monitor was filled with text glowing green on a black background. Would those green emissions overwhelm my inner eye of imagination, unlike a piece of paper sitting in a typewriter? I decided to take the plunge and see.

Maybe I looked sideways when I visualized a story scene. I soon found the Apple IIe gave efficiency analogous to replacing handwriting with typewriting. I only retyped what I needed in successive drafts. Counting words was a snap. And, thankfully, Apple IIe word processing was primitive: more a typewriter with memory, not a desktop publishing system. On balance, a good tool. Before long, I was publishing short stories to the World Wide Web.

But by 1999, living with an Apple IIe was Neanderthal. So despite 15+ years of service, I upgraded to an IBM ThinkPad laptop. I was attracted by portability, the renowned IBM keyboard touch, and a promised multimedia experience of the World Wide Web. As for writing, I would use the full-bodied word processor that came with the ThinkPad. This I accepted as a tradeoff for new PC technology. I gave it a go and lived with a plethora of pull-down menus within pull-down menus. I endured help balloons that appeared without bidding. To keep writing, I resisted becoming expert with all my word processor could do.

This strategy of limits on learning worked but briefly. In months, I was driven to maddening distraction with features I thought I'd accidentally turned on and wouldn't, in a blue moon, set right. Gems like capitalization on autopilot. But what really called for a decision was discovery of quotation marks in the wrong font spread randomly throughout a book-length file (and a pair of left quotation marks at that!).

Moreover, the ThinkPad's operating system, Windows 98, caused me to yearn for the stability of an Apple IIe (if not a Sun workstation). I thought about Linux--the alternative to Windows (unless one buys a new computer and goes Macintosh). But in a serendipitous experiment, I installed the very alternative BeOS on the ThinkPad. As operating systems go, it was a vision of loveliness. Scot Hacker, author of THE BEOS BIBLE, aptly described BeOS as combining "the grace of a Mac and the power of Unix."

The productivity suite I bought for BeOS had a "less is more" flavor and the word processor, in particular, worked well. I wrote a novel without struggle. But too often I tackled the day's writing deciding such issues as a font for the day's draft. The point being, I still had too many choices, compared to my beloved Apple IIe. When I finished the 76,000-word manuscript, I found a disconcerting bug in my otherwise dependable word processor. It repeated words, on occasion, in the text. Admittedly, a dozen "doubles" among tens of thousands of words isn't a big deal, but I wondered if my writing might benefit from even less computer functionality. Did those font choices have a price?

With a new novel to write, the time seemed ripe to switch software. I'd like to say I scoured about for word processors, but I didn't. In my novel, one character would write computer programs. The story question was, What software would he use? It had to be vi. Vi, a Unix editor for plain text files created in 1976 by Bill Joy, co-founder of Sun Microsystems. I'd remembered working with a software engineer, who saw no advantage to word processors and dismissed the "prettiness" of desktop publishing. He did everything in vi. Could I write a novel in vi? I decided, Why not?

Vi fast became -- and remains, 100,000 words later -- my writing implement of choice. Most of all, what I like about vi is something that is, well, aesthetic. I like vi's keyboard-only operation. Vi doesn't assault with helpful balloons or racks of toolbar icons. No, vi has a 70s ambience (no mouse, no GUI) that's refreshingly clean. In that sense, vi is a treasured software servant. It works well without showy presence and respectfully stays out of the way.

Sure, vi is only a digitized window on the ThinkPad screen. But, at times, I can almost imagine another sheet of paper filling up with words, not unlike one I rolled into my Hermes typewriter. That's when vi, the minimalist's text editor, lets the words roll freely, as with Hemingway's carpenter pencil, from my fingertips.

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634 comments

  1. Slashdot County Fair! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sunday! Sunday! Sunday!

    This Sunday at Slashdot Arena:

    VI VS. EMACS

    Right after the tractor pull and the monster truck races!!

    1. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Screw vi and emacs, this guy should be using teh pico! pico 4 life!

    2. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by johnjosephbachir · · Score: 1

      i have "p" aliased to "pico -w" perfect for jumping in and out of a file for some quick changes.

    3. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pico? How's about Nano? ee?

      Real men just concatenate their files line by line, don't they?

      Whatever. I use vi to take my class notes and it does just fine.

    4. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by taviso · · Score: 1

      > Real men just concatenate their files line by line, don't they?

      You've obviously never heard of TECO.

      --
      ex$$
    5. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by FatRatBastard · · Score: 1

      Do I hear a pico vs. nano war a'brewing?

    6. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by Bradee-oh! · · Score: 1

      Didn't you mean "Sunday! Sunday! Someday!"?

      *looks hopingly into the audience for recognition*

      --
      "This is Zombo Com, and welcome to you who have come to Zombo Com" - www.zombo.com
    7. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Screw pico. I'd rather use ed.

    8. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by papik · · Score: 1

      Real men just concatenate their files line by line, don't they?

      Yeah, real real man use cat.

    9. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by ddimas · · Score: 1
      Vi! Emacs! Vi! Emacs! Vi! Emacs!

      AAAAAAAAARGH!

    10. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VI VS. EMACS

      Bah, if Hemmingway was still alive, he'd use cat!

      cat, the text editor for real men!

    11. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TECO? Ancestor to EMACS? Yes. I've heard of it.

      Cryptic syntax, to be sure.

    12. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by clem · · Score: 1

      *looks hopingly into the audience for recognition*

      Cue sound of crickets chirping.

      --
      Your courageous and selfless spelling corrections have made me a better person.
    13. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by great_flaming_foo · · Score: 1

      Real men just concatenate their files line by line, don't they?

      Yeah, real real man use cat.


      No, real men input files in octal with toggle switches

    14. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i alweyz use teh Notpad 4 hax0ring!

    15. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by Evilive · · Score: 1

      TROGDOR!

      --
      -- Two in the pink, one in the sink.
    16. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by Thranduil · · Score: 1

      To emacs users, 'vi' comprises the middle two letters of evil.

      By extension, doesn't this make all vi users evil?

    17. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by 10am-bedtime · · Score: 1

      in this booth the bearded lady taps the obligatory escape!
      behind this screen the monkey boy wraps the purfunctory C-8.
      witness, o ye wandering marks,
      what contrast between the svelte and the stark!
      today you see treasures type-trodden without having to wait!

      is that man really as tall as his regexp legs gawking 'neath?
      one hopes the (s)word (s)wallower cleans well his (h)awking sheath!
      hear the sound of the subprocess organ pipe,
      seventeen keypresses for some is alright!
      can someone show me the repagination room, i need to ^L for relief!

    18. Re:Slashdot County Fair! by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 1

      Emacs has the best of both worlds:

      The ability to open multiple text buffers (and windows!) like the expensive GUI apps, while retaining the purity of ascii text output; once you learn a few basic commands:

      File/Buffer controls:
      CTRL-x-f CTRL-x-CTRL-d
      CTRL-x-c CTRL-x-k
      CTRL-x-s

      Window controls:
      CTRL-X-o CTRL-X-1
      CTRL-X-2 CTRL-X-3 ...you are set!

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
  2. vi is good but... by grub · · Score: 4, Informative


    Having started with Wordstar under CP/M on an Apple ][+ in ~1981 or 82, I found Joe to be just what I was looking for. If I want a graphical editor on a Unix-like system, NEdit is the only thing I use (I have it configured to highlight/italicize/colourize keywords and other goo in Cisco PIX config files).
    It's graphical, yes, but otherwise quite lightweight and responsive. Of course a good working knowledge of vi is useful as it's pretty much the lowest common denominator on any Unix-like system.

    Pico? Begone, infidel! :)

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:vi is good but... by kaan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course a good working knowledge of vi is useful as it's pretty much the lowest common denominator on any Unix-like system.

      Very well put.

      I first learned vi in 1991, and while it was a steep uphill battle, I crested the hump pretty quickly and have been totally pleased since then. I have always enjoyed having a familiar editor available on just about any system I've touched (Solaris, Ultrix, Unicos, Linux, OSX, Windows).

      Sure it's nice to have Emacs configured to do a gazillion things for you, but I liken that to owning a radio, tv, telephone, answering machine, dishwasher, dog walker, maid, bicycle, grocery cart, and dry cleaner all built into one gigantic thing.

      No thanks, I just want to edit files...

    2. Re:vi is good but... by BigBir3d · · Score: 2, Funny
      Sure it's nice to have Emacs configured to do a gazillion things for you, but I liken that to owning a radio, tv, telephone, answering machine, dishwasher, dog walker, maid, bicycle, grocery cart, and dry cleaner all built into one gigantic thing.
      That reminds me of the wife joke....
    3. Re:vi is good but... by farrellj · · Score: 1

      VI is evil...having two modes, insert mode and beep mode! (J. Lavoie)

      I've began using WordStar durning the Apple ][ days, running a Z-80 card on my beast. But I have tried and used many different editors before and after that...and after discovering WordStar, I keep on comming back to it.

      It is just so easy to do editing with, as well as text creation. I now use JOE, as it is the closest that I can get...baring running a CP/M emulator and an old copy of Word Star...

      And I am not the only person...professional writers like Arthur C. Clarke and David Gerrold are also big fans of WorldStar!

      ttyl
      Farrell

      --
      CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
    4. Re:vi is good but... by phrogeeb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I do my first draft in charcoal on slabs of shale-rock.

      I then edit the draft by using a chisel to carve the words into the rock permanently.

      It gives me time to think about each individual phrase, word, and letter.

      Actually, I am part of the growing generation of high school students that do all of their work (beginning to finish) in Word or StarOffice or something of the equivalent.

      Somehow, our adolescent minds have been able to wrap themselves around the concept that, if you just spend a few minutes formatting at the beginning or end of a writing session, and then leave it the hell alone, you can be just as productive and creative etc. as you might on pen and paper.

      Not to mention the fact that italics have removed the need to remember whether the name of a play should be underlined or put in quotation marks.

      --

      ------

      "Will the highways on the Internet become more few?" --George W. Bush, in Jan. 2000

    5. Re:vi is good but... by illumin8 · · Score: 1

      My favorite Word Processor was and still is Wordstar on an Osborne Executive running CP/M... Aahh those were the days... Two 5.25" disk drives each storing a whopping 180k. The amber glow of a 5" screen filled with text staring back at you...

      But you sure could work fast with Wordstar, and the control key method of executing commands was genius.

      --
      "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
    6. Re:vi is good but... by dubious9 · · Score: 1

      There is a difference between using Word for a ten or twenty page papaer, and when you start writing hundreds of pages. Those minutes add up quickly. Then you have to worry about consistancy, and look. Not to mention that formatting 300 pages by hand (and making sure that it is consistant) is very tedious. Then you get into stylesheets and wind up spending three days programming rather than writing. You become not just the writer, but the copy-editor and become adept at desktop publishing (which by the way, word is horrible at, try Framemaker). Then you realize your behind schedule and over budget and decide to simplify, simplify, simplify.

      Real professional writers need simplicity and ease . Other people take care of formatting for them. That's why I've always used vi as the editor and sometimes LaTeX.

      Even for high school students, you should try a thin editor and use no formating other than tabs and see how much quicker you write when you don't have to worry about bullets, auto-correct, margins, pagination etc.

      --
      Why, o why must the sky fall when I've learned to fly?
    7. Re:vi is good but... by odaiwai · · Score: 1

      > professional writers like [...] David Gerrold are also big fans of WorldStar!

      Is that why it's taking him so long to finish the Chtorr series?

      dave

    8. Re:vi is good but... by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      --I use ' jstar ' on a daily basis, it's the closest thing to the actual Wordstar keys.

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
  3. In 1996, by tarquin_fim_bim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    in a presentation in Australia to the Press Club, Scott McNeally stated: "When the anthropologists look back on the 1980s and 1990s and do the archaeological digs, and get their callipers and brooms and microscopes out, they will blame the massive reduction in productivity during the 1980s and 1990s entirely on Microsoft Office."
    While this view maybe considered extreme, the author of the article certainly casts some doubt on the usefulness of complex word processing software. But then, I would not call vi particularly intuitive, but it does cut down on pointless formatting decisions that seem to endlessly arise.

    1. Re:In 1996, by ePhil_One · · Score: 4, Informative
      it does cut down on pointless formatting decisions that seem to endlessly arise.

      This is utter nonsense. A writer KNOWS what font he writes in makes know difference, the magazine/publisher will likely decide this. This is akin to blaming the existance of pencils and electric sharpeners for his incessant pencil sharpening. Its just a habit he has to avoid working, get rid of it and he'll find another.

      Which isn't to say MS Word isn't a bloated nightmare.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
    2. Re:In 1996, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pointless formatting descisions...

      I'm sorry but I use MS Office daily. If anything, it cuts down on any sort of need to think about what formatting goes into the document.

      NOT ALL DOCUMENTS ARE LEFT JUSTIFIED.

      I'm sorry but there was no need to mod the parent up. It's obvious that it is a Microsoft troll.

      Please be serious.

    3. Re:In 1996, by julesh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would not call vi particularly intuitive, but it does cut down on pointless formatting decisions that seem to endlessly arise.

      OK, I'm going to jump in here. I thought the point was particularly daft when the original author wrote it, and I think its daft now.

      There are no formatting choices when you write a novel. Well, pretty close to zero, anyway.

      Lets see:

      Typeface: Courier (or nearest equivalent).
      Market research shows that manuscripts that are made to look as close to traditional typed text as possible are more likely to be picked up by a publisher. That's the end of that one. Easy.

      Font size: 11 or 12 pt double spaced
      Doesn't really matter a huge amount which one, some think 12pt is easier to read, some prefer the slimmer feel of a manuscript with slightly fewer pages. You'll choose it when you sit down first time and won't change it. Ever.

      Page layout: A4 or Letter, whichever you normally use, 1" margins
      The only size of paper you'd ever consider

      Special effects in the text
      Underline for emphasis. Anything else is generally accepted to be offputting to editors.

      Chapter headers, etc
      Start a new page. Underline them if you feel like it. It doesn't really matter anyway, they'll be reformatted when the book gets published.

      Headers and footers
      Your name, book title, page number.

      And that's pretty much everything you need to know. It'll take, what, about 2 minutes to set up if you know the application, about 10 minutes if you don't.

      Oh, and how do I print my vi output in the right format (paginated with the right margins, headers and footers, any necessary sections underlined, double spaced)? I'm sure there's a nice little Unix utility to do it, but it'd probably take me about 10 minutes with man to find it and work out how to use it.

      I'll stick with OpenOffice for my novel writing requirements, thanks.

    4. Re:In 1996, by sjames · · Score: 1

      A writer KNOWS what font he writes in makes know difference, the magazine/publisher will likely decide this.

      EXACTLY! So why should he have font information bloating his text files and taking up valuable screen real estate? Just one more thing to accidentally click on and not know how to shut back off. The same goes for auto-caps, real time spelling and grammar advice, words and sentences shifting this way and that, apparently at the whim of the machine, etc.

      The right tool for the job of storing text in an editable format is a text editor like vi.

      In the business world, it's much the same. It's important to check spelling, and avoid handwritten chicken scratch, but who really get's impressed with a company because of font choice in their documents? Frankly, I'd prefer simple text for most purposes. There can be value to bold, italic, and underline, but that's nothing that can't be accomplished in really simple HTML.

      Simple text editors come up instantly, even on an old '486, and don't lead to screw up's like accidentally including the earlier revision of the memo that started "Dear rat-bastard:" or even confidential information from another memo entirely.

    5. Re:In 1996, by noewun · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      Bullshit.

      Every editor, agent or publisher in the U.S. is going to demand the same typeface for any piece, story, novel or script turned in: Courier 12/24. It is easy to read, gives a known number of characters per page, and the double spacing makes writing notes easy.

      --
      I am a believer of momentum and curves.
    6. Re:In 1996, by John+Allsup · · Score: 1

      Since the formatting that the word processor user uses makes no difference (in the cases we are discussing), one would surely want to be editing in a type that looks easiest to work with on screen, and with an interface that hides any notion of formatting, with the possible exception of chapter/section headings and a few forms of emphasis.

      The point about cutting down on those 'pointless formatting decisions' is that the average user forced to use e.g. vi, won't think 'Wow... look at what I can play with...' as we all do when faced with a new piece of software.

      --
      John_Chalisque
    7. Re:In 1996, by penginkun · · Score: 1
      But then, I would not call vi particularly intuitive, but it does cut down on pointless formatting decisions that seem to endlessly arise.

      Agreed. I do all my typing in a text editor (BBEdit) these days. I can't be bothered with having to choose a font-inevitably I'll choose a mono-spaced font because they show formatting problems more readily (at least to me they do) and because...well...everything lines up!

      On top of that, every word processor I've tried on the Mac (and on Windows) seems determined to make ME work ITS way. Wordperfect for Windows is especially chaotic-refusing to change text formatting, arbitrarily resizing fonts, sticking new pages in where they're not wanted. One of the secretaries thinks I'm crazy, but I swear-it's out to get me!

      Back in college I used a program called "Jove" which as I recall was an Emacs varient. I never "got" vi, but I've nothing against it per se. Jove just "fit". Pico sucks ass. Too word-processor-ish for my tastes.

    8. Re:In 1996, by orac2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Dear God, no! I'm an editor in the U.S. and you just sent a shiver down my spine at the thought that I should try to read the next manuscript to cross my desk in courier, or any non-proportional sans serif font.

      Serif proportional fonts are much more readable for bulk text, as found in the body of a manuscript (this applies to paper printouts, not neccesarily on-screen where the crappy resolution of most monitors compared to paper gives proportional, sans-serif fonts the edge). As for things like word counts, etc, manuscripts invariably appear with an accompanying electronic copy (and often only the electronic copy, e.g. when something is filed by email).

      I don't know anyone who demands Courier 12/24. Actually, once upon a time, I was drinking with a bunch of publishing nerds, and we tried to work out what booze would go with what fonts, i.e. if Ariel was a drink, what drink would it be? (I did mention we were nerds right?). Anyhoo, Whiskey was the best match for Courier, and Guinness the best match for Times New Roman. The point is, disregarding price, which would most people rather drink a pint of? The longer the text, the more likely I am to want to see it in anything other than Courier.

      --
      "Just once, I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets." -- The Brigadier, Dr. Who
    9. Re:In 1996, by lutzomania · · Score: 1

      Exactly right, Julesh. I'm a published fiction writer and have read manuscripts for a couple magazines. In my experience, 99.9995% of manuscripts that arrived with italics all over them and text in six different typefaces ended up in the trash (or went right back into the SASE).

      The Courier rule is (or at least was where I worked) a bit less strict than it used to be. Many people use Times or Palatino these days. This annoys some editors but is not the stroke of death that it used to be.

      Personally, I use TextPad on Windows.

    10. Re:In 1996, by noewun · · Score: 1
      Inneresting.

      Every agent, publisher or editor I've spoken with/worked with has demanded Courier 12/24. I know some agents who won't even consider a manuscript unless it's Courier.

      Courieser and courieser.

      --
      I am a believer of momentum and curves.
    11. Re:In 1996, by TomV · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is akin to blaming the existance of pencils and electric sharpeners for his incessant pencil sharpening. Its just a habit he has to avoid working, get rid of it and he'll find another.

      A habit, aye, there's the rub.

      I've heard and read the same story from so many writers, from Douglas Adams' famous 'whooshing deadlines' comment on. Authors, perhaps, fall into two broad categories - the possessed, compelled to write all the time without rest, and far more commonly, the procrastinator.

      There seem to be a great number of writers, including some staggeringly good ones, who tell the same story of procrastination, displacement activity, long baths, walking the dog, repainting the kitchen, becoming a world authority on Bolivian lepidoptera, scaling mountains, booking an extensive program of root canal surgery, anything, anything at all to just delay having to actually try to condense their inner vision into squiggles on a plain background.

      Perhaps that's the first editor, the reluctance to commit anything until forced to. Perhaps there are millions of people out there who could create fabulous works, but don't force themselves to actually write it. A few of the authors I've conversed with will readily state that the reason they're authors is that they're 'no good at anything else' - for me, there are easier ways to feed myself than writing, but there are those who believe there aren't, and eventually, desperately, reluctantly, they are finally forced to make some marks on that plain background.

      I find for the first draft at least, it has to be ink or a typewriter. Anything with a backspace key just dumps me into a morass of microediting, with ink I have to choose more carefully and accept more willingly. Savage editing can come later when I know how the thing actually *goes*.

      tomV

    12. Re:In 1996, by orac2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      It might be different in my universe (print journalism) -- book publishing is its own universe (a la how legal offices still use Word Perfect). The discrepancy may be because where it's still common to submit actual reams of paper rather than, say, a CD-ROM, I could see how a fixed width font would be useful to determine word counts and double spacing for comments. But I pity the readers...

      I'm willing to bet though, that as manuscripts in the form of raw bundles of paper becomes increasingly anachronistic, you'll see the font reqirement fade away -- after all, there's a reason they don't publish the books in Courier.

      BTW, where I work we generally use MS Word, because it turns out that some of those pain-in-the-ass advanced features do have utility, specifically the ability to track changes. This is critical for us because the article wends its way back and forth several times in quick succession between authors and editors and most communication is electronic even within the office walls.

      --
      "Just once, I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets." -- The Brigadier, Dr. Who
    13. Re:In 1996, by noewun · · Score: 1

      That explains things - I haven't done any journalism since 1996. It's all been literary stuff since.

      --
      I am a believer of momentum and curves.
    14. Re:In 1996, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I think a spell-check would be valuable to a writer. I doubt that this writer will figure out how to use ispell or aspell if resisting the temptation to use bold is too hard. On the other hand, maybe this writer is a walking dictionary with flawless typing skills.

      Having a disdain for features of a typical word processor seems misplaced to me, though. Any career has "tools of the trade" and in the case of writing that involves a word processor. It is like an electrician who refuses on using wire cutters, insisting that a knife can do the job and is less distracting.

      I am a published author (of training manuals) but my field is not writing (it is engineering). Furthermore, my published work is technical in nature so I rely on format more to clarify differences between computer output, user input, and regular prose. A novelist may not find cross-references, numbered lists, indexes, and tables of contents as useful as I have.

    15. Re:In 1996, by Smedrick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It really depends on the editor. Older guys that worked with the old type-setters claim that Courier is easier on the eyes simply because they're so used to it.

      It's all a matter of preference. In general, young editors and publishers prefer TNR while the older crowd likes Courier. Personally, I prefer the Sans-seriff family (Verdana in particular), but I'm just an engineer, so what do I know?

      --
      "I strongly urge both the faint of heart and the faint of butt to leave the room at this time."
      - Strong Bad
    16. Re:In 1996, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Exactly right. I used to work in publishing, and the perfect input format for me was plain text. If it came in Word, I converted it to plain text. Every bit of formatting went away, because I was doing all that in Pagemaker, and applying my own consistent styles.

      To this day I hate Word. On Windows I use Notepad, and if I ever need real formatting I'll buy Pagemaker. Doing formatting in a word processor just seems like a nasty hybrid abomination to me.

    17. Re:In 1996, by swillden · · Score: 2, Interesting

      BTW, where I work we generally use MS Word, because it turns out that some of those pain-in-the-ass advanced features do have utility, specifically the ability to track changes.

      I create a lot of technical documents, and I specifically do *not* use Word because of it's poor support for change tracking. Software developers have created fantastic tools for change management, and I find that these are as good for documents as they are for code.

      Word probably does the job you need, but for requirements specifications where you have to not only know what changed between the version you're looking at and two or three revisions back, but also keep track for all time of who changed what, when and why, CVS is a much better solution.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    18. Re:In 1996, by UberLame · · Score: 1
      Oh, and how do I print my vi output in the right format (paginated with the right margins, headers and footers, any necessary sections underlined, double spaced)? I'm sure there's a nice little Unix utility to do it, but it'd probably take me about 10 minutes with man to find it and work out how to use it. I'll stick with OpenOffice for my novel writing requirements, thanks.
      I just use a LaTeX template file and a short script something like:
      cat ~/head.tex $1 > /tmp/$$.tex
      echo \\end{document} >> /tmp/$$.tex
      latex /tmp/$$.tex
      dvips /tmp/$$.dvi
      rm /tmp/$$.tex /tmp/$$.dvi /tmp/$$.aux /tmp/$$.log

      Of course, the script should possibly consider doing something more sophisticated to make sure that the text file passed in as $1 doesn't contain codes that will confuse latex, but since this is just for myself I don't have to worry about that. Using troff or groff would probably be easier, but I don't know how to use them, and I'd already had to learn latex for a math class. I have one script for letters, two for simple papers (one is for single space, one for double spaced), and if my requirements are harder for some reason, I just make the latex file directly.

      I use OpenOffice for a spread sheet. I appreciate that it is free, and it is certainly a good enough spreadsheet for my personal needs (although in past jobs I would have found it inadequate), but in general OpenOffice feels sluggish on my aging machines, and I like being able to do my wordprocessing easily from any machine via ssh. I obviously am not a novelist though.

      --
      I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me.
    19. Re:In 1996, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I was drinking with a bunch of publishing nerds, and we tried to work out what booze would go with what fonts

      So Tequila and Wingdings, right?

    20. Re:In 1996, by BiteMeFanboy · · Score: 1

      Fine write it in Vi. Mark it up with Tex, and send it in whatever font you want. You'll be a lot faster, and you can send different fonts to different publishers should you need, or wish to.

    21. Re:In 1996, by Watts+Martin · · Score: 1
      I don't know anyone who demands Courier 12/24...

      That would be "nearly every major publishing house and professional magazine." Still. This is slowly changing, but it's literally been only the last couple of years that I've been seeing submission requirements that even allow electronic submission to all but the smallest of presses.

      Actually, I'll backpedal a little on that. Not everyone demands Courier, but it's still considered a mark of professionalism by most editors/publishers. It's a sign that you, as a writer, have done enough basic research to know what proper manuscript format is. The assumption is that if you haven't put in the hour or two to find this and learn this, the chances are you're not serious about your storytelling, either. It may seem like a rickety assumption, but I know when I was receiving about 20 manuscripts a week for a small press magazine I edited in the late '90s, manuscripts that didn't follow canonical format but were worth reading anyway really did prove the exceptions to the rule.

      What most editors--I can't speak for you--still do demand is double-spaced, 12-point text with ample margins, visual indication of emphasis (underlines in monospaced fonts or italics in proportional), and a header which indicates page number, story title and author name on each page except the first. Most editors still demand hard copy, and if they don't, would strongly prefer soft copy that meets those formats so they can print it out if they want to.

      And this is the major thing that keeps me from trying to move to text editors from word processors: I need to be able to produce formatted text, however simple the formatting is, and I don't want to have to think about embedded formatting codes the way TeX (or God forbid troff) would require while I'm writing. And, ironically, those text formatters don't do a good job for manuscript formatting anyway--they want to do real typesetting. I don't really need any more power than WordStar 4.0 had, but I don't want any less, either.

      On the Mac currently we're suffering a deluge of "writers' word processors" which try to strip writing down to the "bare essentials," which universally means they've added cutesy UI things for margin notes or tabs for chapters, while offering far less formatting ability than TextEdit or WordPad while offering no more editing capability. It's the worst of both worlds!

    22. Re:In 1996, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ariel?!? How could an *editor* who supposedly knows so much about fonts spell "Arial" incorrectly? I guess it explains the horrible copy editing I've seen lately in just about every printed publication I read: incorrect transpositions of you're/your, lose/loose, and apostrophe's where they don't belong. Running a spell check is not a substitute for proofreading, people!

    23. Re:In 1996, by gaijin99 · · Score: 1
      While this view maybe considered extreme, the author of the article certainly casts some doubt on the usefulness of complex word processing software. But then, I would not call vi particularly intuitive, but it does cut down on pointless formatting decisions that seem to endlessly arise.

      Not too extreme, actually. I write, and I tend to use plaintext editors to do my initial writing. Vi, actually...

      Which isn't to say that the complex word processing programs aren't useful. After I'm finished writing the text, I load it into OpenOffice.org and use it as a formatting/typesetting program. Its great in that role, but I've got to agree with the idea that doing writing in a typesetting program tends to be a time sink. As long as you see it as two separate processes: 1) writing, and 2) typesetting, it makes perfect sense.

      --
      "Mission Accomplished" -- George W. Bush May 1, 2003
    24. Re:In 1996, by Hatta · · Score: 1

      So you use latex. Just create your style file and be done with it.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    25. Re:In 1996, by dvdeug · · Score: 1

      There are no formatting choices when you write a novel. Well, pretty close to zero, anyway.

      I take it you can just write without worrying about stuff like that. Personally, I write as far away from my computer as possible, because formatting decisions are usually the least of my problems on the computer; but the few times I have sat down to type, they've usually become a problem.

      I'm sure there's a nice little Unix utility to do it, but it'd probably take me about 10 minutes with man to find it and work out how to use it.

      Ooh, ten minutes. Once you've done that - pr's probably your tool - you're done.

    26. Re:In 1996, by omega_cubed · · Score: 1

      One word. TeX.

      Formatting and writing are two completely different things. It doesn't matter whether you decide to do one or the other first. And TeX (and variants like LaTeX or tetex) lets you do exactly that. Granted, there are a few things to get used to: \$ instead of $, '' instead of ", but that learning curve is extremely low. And doesn't slow down production at all once it's gotten used to.

      And I think editing in some editor (vi, emacs, take your pick) and typing in some TeX compatible way is probably one way most similar to actually doing so on a typewriter. Most non-graphical editors don't feature page break lines, which, really only ought to matter when you require to start a new page for a new chapter etc. All those can be done by simple commands.

      And speaking of graphical editors, have you experienced the pain of having your careful setup, with a new page for every chapter, completely ruined by adding one line to the second paragraph of the first chapter?

      --
      Engineers also speak PDE, only in a different dialect.
    27. Re:In 1996, by kalidasa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When I did editing (at a lit/academic journal), the main reason we wanted Courier was because that was all our scanner could handle. In other words, if we didn't get a disk, and we were pretty sure we were going to use it, we explicitly asked for courier.

    28. Re:In 1996, by orac2 · · Score: 1

      Word probably does the job you need, but for requirements specifications where you have to not only know what changed between the version you're looking at and two or three revisions back, but also keep track for all time of who changed what, when and why, CVS is a much better solution.

      Exactly -- except in very rare circumstances I really don't care what was written two or three iterations back. Normally all I care about is the current iteration and getting it to through the next step, until it's finally out the door to the printers.

      --
      "Just once, I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets." -- The Brigadier, Dr. Who
    29. Re:In 1996, by danila · · Score: 1

      cut down on pointless formatting decisions that seem to endlessly arise

      Ha! When I need to type something on my Win2k PC, I can always lunch Notepad. I type whatever I want and leave it as it is. If I feel particularly paranoid, I will save it to desktop. If not, I'll just leave it as it is. I can also launch MS Word and start typing in perfect Times New Roman 12 pt. It's not like Word is asking me what font I want to use before creating the document. :)

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    30. Re:In 1996, by swillden · · Score: 1

      Yep, that's what I figured. I do some of the same, when preparing client contracts, for example. We need to pass 'em around to get edits from multiple people, but revision history doesn't matter.

      Still, the point is, you can also get what you want from "simpler" tools, and they can do even more when it's needed. Not trying to discourage you from using Word, of course (as if you'd be stupid enough to listen to a random slashdotter, anyway); if the tool does the job, it does the job.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    31. Re:In 1996, by orac2 · · Score: 1

      Check your domain. Not every "major publishing house and professional magazine" publishes literary material.

      For example, all the major scientific and technical publishers -- your Elseviers, your IEEEs, even your Natures either current heavily promote electronic submission (Nature even provides a MS Word template as its preferred format for submissions, with, guess what, body text in 12 point Times New Roman) or in the throes of moving to such a system. Certainly, even when I was working for a science publisher in the 1990's prior to their push for web-based submission, hundreds of manuscripts a month would come into the office, and I don't recall ever seeing more than one or two in Courier.

      Also most news print organizations (the universe I inhabit now) don't demand double spaced Courier and they sure as hell accept copy electronically -- some journo following the campaign trail in Iowa isn't going to stop and fedex a 12 point courier hard copy manuscript back to New York. In news organizations, the need for speed pushed everyone to filing electronically a long time ago.

      --
      "Just once, I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets." -- The Brigadier, Dr. Who
    32. Re:In 1996, by Darth+Hubris · · Score: 1

      I really thought about it today, and Wordpad covers just about everything I really need. I just need to be able to underline, bold, or italicize things, and MAYBE adjust the font size. A sans-serif proportional font looks great IMO. A spelll checker is a nice thing to have, too. Abiword is looking very nice right about now.

      Don't get me wrong, plain text editors are great, but I like proportional fonts. I did my best work in Word 6.0 on a Win3.11 machine.

      --
      The party's over ... the drink ... and the luck ... ran out
    33. Re:In 1996, by orac2 · · Score: 1

      Actually it was Ribena and Wingdings. If you don't know, Ribena is a blackberry juice concentrate (just add water to taste!), generally targetted at children in the UK and Ireland. It seemed to fit.

      --
      "Just once, I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets." -- The Brigadier, Dr. Who
    34. Re:In 1996, by orac2 · · Score: 1

      Ariel?!? How could an *editor* who supposedly knows so much about fonts spell "Arial" incorrectly? I guess it explains the horrible copy editing

      Well, if I was a copy editor I might agree with you, but actually that's someone else's department. Literally. :)

      --
      "Just once, I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets." -- The Brigadier, Dr. Who
    35. Re:In 1996, by melinda99 · · Score: 2, Informative
      As a designer working primarily with a writing team, it makes my skin crawl to hear writers even speak of formatting, or layout, or what the rules are for same.

      Even for print, the publishing business has changed and fonts are chosen first by their ability to be ripped by software that feeds the presses. That means Type 1 fonts work best. Secondly, usability studies assert that any serif is best for print (the standard being Times Roman) and sansserif (the standard being Arial since all OS will recognize Arial) works best for online.

      No writer should write with a concern for what the words look like on paper. Text editors are the correct tool for the writer. The standard for formatting is FrameMaker, QuarkExpress, or PageMaker. Those are not toy apps and best used by pros.

      And for the record, Arial is tap water. Times Roman is Diet Coke.

    36. Re:In 1996, by orac2 · · Score: 1

      And for the record, Arial is tap water. Times Roman is Diet Coke.

      I think you're missing the important element of alchohol that makes playing The Font Game seem like a good idea in the first place. :) (I should have mentioned the game was created in a pub).

      But what would you make of Garamond?

      --
      "Just once, I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets." -- The Brigadier, Dr. Who
    37. Re:In 1996, by Dwonis · · Score: 1
      On Windows I use Notepad

      If you find Notepad to be a little limited, try using gvim. It takes a bit of effort to learn how to use its features (syntax highlighting, text folding, vertical block selection, macros, and many, many more things), but since gvim has a menu system, all you need to know is:

      1. When in command mode, press "i" to enter insert mode
      2. When in insert mode, press "Esc" to enter command mode

      You can learn the rest as you use it.

    38. Re:In 1996, by julesh · · Score: 1

      Most non-graphical editors don't feature page break lines, which, really only ought to matter when you require to start a new page for a new chapter etc.

      When I use emacs for such things (rarely, but I do sometimes), I find M-x quoted-insert ^L often does the job.

    39. Re:In 1996, by Grab · · Score: 1

      You're laying out your pages by putting manual carriage returns after the last paragraph?!?!? Tell me, do you also full-justify your text by putting in extra spaces between words? Or do you type with your nose to make life harder?

      As far as a learning curve goes, Vi has a near vertical one, and Emacs isn't much better. Keyboard commands are great for advanced users, but the whole point is that a writer shouldn't have to become an advanced user before they can write something. For a beginner, keyboard commands are a nightmare, and the source of all those complaints of "the computer ate my work" by hitting the wrong one.

      My main complaint with Word is that it comes with all the bells and whistles turned on by default, and it's so damn difficult to turn them off. Putting the controls somewhere obvious and giving the user a prompt after installation to ask what options they want to use would make this much better. With the bloat turned off though, it works pretty damn well.

      If you want a simpler editor, just use WordPad which comes bundled with Windows. It's graphical, you can select a font and paragraph scheme which appeals to your eye while you're editting, and there's no annoying bloat-features. Job done.

      Grab.

    40. Re:In 1996, by melinda99 · · Score: 1
      Well alright. The assessment was indeed made stone cold sober, but I stand by it, sober or drunk.

      Garamond: no alc - root beer; alc - home brew.
      Futura: with or without alcohol - paragoric.

    41. Re:In 1996, by Jason+Earl · · Score: 1

      I disagree. Writers create text documents. When push comes to shove vi (and Emacs) both have a pile of tools that make creating text documents much easier. Sure, these tools have somewhat of a learning curve, but the learning curve pays off in spades once you become an expert.

    42. Re:In 1996, by Sablepegasus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Believe it or not, this is something I was wondering about.

      I'm a writer myself and have always been advised to submit MS in typewriter (Courier) font.

      HOWEVER, I have begun write in Times myself. Or in the font closest to it that is A: Clear to read without tiring the eyes and B: Closest to that which is printed in magazines and books.

      In the past, the Courier printer font was advised over "prettier" fonts because it looked closest to that copy that was produced on a typewriter. However, since this advice was given back in the late 80s, when the personal computer was still pretty much a luxury and 'new', as well as the fact that the printers of the time were dot matrix, it is logical to assume that the advice is outmoded. However, I have still seen this exact same advice printed in writing books published as recently as last year (I do not own any writing books published in 2003, since I have been working the majority of this year and haven't had time to read much).

      On the flip side, there have been more books printed advising Times in addition to Courier, but personally, I haven't read anything advising Times and Serif fonts over Courier and the Sans-serif Typewriter fonts. I certainly hope this is a trend in publishing that will become better known soon.

      I am quite in agreement that reading a 300+ MS typed in Courier is a headache. (I have several reams of MS printed in Courier. They're in a box in my garage.) Times and the similar fonts just look better printed out and they are easier to read. (Not to mention they appear slightly smalller and better formed and it seems that you can get more words on one page than you can with the same point size in Courier.)

      Anyway, thanks for a valuable piece of information! Next MS I submit, I'll use Times or a similar Serif font.

      Sable

    43. Re:In 1996, by orac2 · · Score: 1

      Well, as the rest of this thread demonstrates, your mileage may vary. Different rules seem to apply in different parts of the industry, so what you're writing will probably determine what you format you need. It seems that for literary publishers or production companies that demand hard copy submissions courier is the way to go. News organizations, or those that accept electronic submissions don't care, so you may as well send your work in a font you're comfortable with.

      Still, just because you have to print it in courier doesn't mean you have to write it in courier. If you're happier working over drafts in Times New Roman stick with it till you have to dump a copy for the fedex envelope.

      --
      "Just once, I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets." -- The Brigadier, Dr. Who
    44. Re:In 1996, by Grab · · Score: 1

      Sure, but the point of the original article was that writers don't want to become experts, they just want to sit down and type. On that basis, Vi sucks badly, and Emacs isn't a whole lot better.

    45. Re:In 1996, by Jason+Earl · · Score: 1

      Actually the point of the original article was that the writer wanted a text editor that stayed out of the way. He didn't want to worry about page layout, and he certainly didn't want an editor that corrected perceived mistakes.

      The fact of the matter is that you don't have to be too much of an expert to edit text in any modern vi (heck, vim has drop down menus for crying out loud), and you don't have to be any sort of an expert to edit text in Emacs.

  4. XyWrite by mr.henry · · Score: 5, Informative

    Salon has a pretty good story on XyWrite, the old DOS word processor which is apparently a favorite among a lot of writers. If you want to play around with it, you can build a "XyLite" system with a little work. Also check out the XyWWWeb, an excellent resource for XyWrite related stuff.

    1. Re:XyWrite by red+floyd · · Score: 1

      Pournelle used to write everything XyWrite... then WordPerfect, and now he's stuck on Word.

      --
      The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
    2. Re:XyWrite by digital_franciscan · · Score: 1

      Aaahh, XyWrite. With all due respect to vi, XyWrite will go down in history as the best pure writing instrument ever developed. Then IBM killed it (long story). I still use it, though.

    3. Re:XyWrite by fm6 · · Score: 1

      He can write? I've only ever heard him rant!

  5. vi for writers? by jbellis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sure that plays well on slashdot, but most writers looking for a typewriter-with-memory would be better served by Notepad or the Mac equivalent. (Does OSX still have TextEdit?)

    How many writers know what a regular expression IS, let alone how to search with one? :)

    1. Re:vi for writers? by johnjosephbachir · · Score: 1

      (Does OSX still have TextEdit?)

      Yes, and in 10.3 it can read and write .doc!

    2. Re:vi for writers? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      (Does OSX still have TextEdit?)

      Yes it does but it now feels more of a word processor then a text editor. With a large font selection, red dotted underline for misspelled word, Margins, ability to add pictures, etc... It is a mix of Word Pad and Microsoft Works in functionality.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:vi for writers? by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 1

      Yes, OSX still has TextEdit, though it has been expanded. Native format is now rtf, and there are rumors that the next revision of the OS will have it able to read and write .doc files...

      Personally, I'll stick with BBEdit. (It is the only program I have set to start up with login.) If I want to use the GUI, it's got a good one. If I don't, well then I can use keyboard commands all I like. I find myself using it for everything; over TextEdit, OpenOffice, AppleWorks, or the rest.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    4. Re:vi for writers? by PopCulture · · Score: 3, Funny

      would advise against notepad.

      ctrl-z only works for your last mistake - then it just redoes your mistake over

      that would totally suck it big time to lose like 250 pages of work becase your pet walked across your keyboard, startin at the lower left corner... "ctrl-a"

      --

      Here's to finally giving Bush his exit strategy in November
    5. Re:vi for writers? by generationxyu · · Score: 1

      Yes, OS X still comes with TextEdit. I use TextEdit for innumerable things... hacking out quick perl scripts (big ones I only trust to Emacs), any quick plaintext files I need get done, etc. Possibly its best feature is dual native support for straight ASCII and beautiful (in the eye of the beholder, of course) RTF. This is the primary reason I use TextEdit over BBEdit Lite (or TextWrangler) for plaintext editing. It's thin, it's good, it's not Project Builder.

      --
      I mod down pyramid schemes in sigs.
    6. Re:vi for writers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, MacOS X has TextEdit, but BBEdit is by far the best text editor on the Mac.

    7. Re:vi for writers? by `Sean · · Score: 1

      I personally use BBEdit for all of my drafts when I'm editing from the GUI. It's quick, mostly lightweight and keeps backups of each successive save. No silly fonts or formatting to get in the way...just turn on Soft Wrap and go. Spell check is supported but optional so no annoying red squigglies to interrupt the creative flow.

      The added benefit to plaintext is that it doesn't matter where I'm outputting to. Copying and pasting to a Blog or Web forum. Saving for a database, CMS or Word document. Doesn't matter. Plus saving local copies of all my Web postings allows me to keep track of how many times I've put my foot in my mouth. ;)

    8. Re:vi for writers? by `Sean · · Score: 1

      Plus, BBEdit supports Emacs key bindings. Fiou!

    9. Re:vi for writers? by fenix+down · · Score: 2, Funny

      Does it still render html files? That was the stupidest damn feature ever.

    10. Re:vi for writers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many writers would need to use a regex to search for something in a novel?

      Let's see, I want to see if I've ever written the word 'peanut' followed by a 6 letter word starting with a 'b'. Oh great, I can use a regex.

    11. Re:vi for writers? by UserGoogol · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Notepad, for all its evils, is damned good if all you want to do is type, but not format, plain text in English. When you're programming, having a Vi or Emacs or Built-into-an-IDE type editor is intensely useful, but English doesn't need all that. (A simple spell check would be nice, but I'm not sure if Vi has that anyway. Emacs might. At any rate, you can always enter your text into a seperate program. Plain text is a pretty widely accepted standard.) And the having an auto word wrap is nice, although it can cause some compatability problems.

      --
      "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor
    12. Re:vi for writers? by minniger · · Score: 1

      (Does OSX still have TextEdit?)

      Yes. By default it uses RTF. But you can tell it to just use plain text. And it has the auto underline spell checking available in both modes.

      So all in all a pretty useful and simple text editor.

    13. Re:vi for writers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I personally know a cookbook author who uses vi and I have had email correspondence who claims to have written and sold multiple gothic romances using vi and some form of TeX or LaTeX!

    14. Re:vi for writers? by zonx+lebaam · · Score: 1

      Not only does OSX come with notepad, it comes with vi.

    15. Re:vi for writers? by Neil+Watson · · Score: 1

      Removing those repeated double words the auther laments about is exactly the kind of thing regular expressions are for.

    16. Re:vi for writers? by Frymaster · · Score: 4, Insightful
      writers looking for a typewriter-with-memory would be better served by Notepad or the Mac equivalent.

      if you think vim is a "typewriter-with-memory" you must have one hell of a typewriter! can notepad do:

      • word completion from the buffer? vim can with ctrl-p or ctrl-n
      • find next occurrence of word under cursor? vim can with *
      • uppercase current line? vim can with gUU
      • provide built-in encryption? vim can with :X
      • regex find/replace? vim can with %s///g
      • dump stdout from any command right into what you're working on? vim can with !! command

      the list goes on and on. vim is a fully-featured, powerful, customizable, lightweight and ubiquitous editor that runs on just about any os available. notpad can't even do line numbers.

      take that, notepad!

    17. Re:vi for writers? by Trillan · · Score: 1

      Yes it does, but it does too much now. On the other hand, it's relatively easy to ignore all of the extras. Picking a single menu command converts the document to text-only. It still has spell checking as you type, which is about the only feature I want in a word processor when I'm writing.

    18. Re:vi for writers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dumbass...you quote the line and you still don't read it. He said notepad is a "typewriter-with-memory", not vim. And why would you even want any of those features for writing a book?

    19. Re:vi for writers? by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 1

      Not to mention Notepad's file size limit, at least in older versions. If you want a good text editor for Windows, I'd recommend Textpad.

    20. Re:vi for writers? by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 1

      vim is a fully-featured, powerful, customizable, lightweight and ubiquitous editor that runs on just about any os available.

      If vi had a marketing buzzword guy, you should be it.

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    21. Re:vi for writers? by julesh · · Score: 1

      I must admit that I've started to find completion from words you've typed before (which is what I assume is meant by 'completion from buffer') quite useful in my writing. It probably adds about 5% to my typing speed, which is handy.

    22. Re:vi for writers? by julesh · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't recommend using notepad for novel work, as a novel typically runs to 70 or 100 k-words, which is more than notepad can handle easily.

      But its fine for short stories, I guess.

      I think the key is to discipline yourself not to use the fancy word processor features. You shouldn't want to anyway, fancy stuff in a manuscript for a novel makes it less likely to get published, according to most research into the subject.

    23. Re:vi for writers? by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1
      A simple spell check would be nice, but I'm not sure if Vi has that anyway. Emacs might.

      Of course it does. Emacs has everything. :-) M-x flyspell-mode turns on interactive spell-checking.

      I've been writing (and performing) poetry for about 10 years, and have recently been trying short stories. I find that paper and pencil is my preferred method for composing the first draft. (At least for poetry and stories. Essays, and document I write relating to coding, I prefer to start right at the keyboard.) When I type things up and revise them, I work in Emacs. Besides the general bloatedness of word processors, I find that text is easier to edit in a fixed-width font designed for the screen.

      When I did my first (self-published) chapbook, it was with LaTeX; next time around I might go with OpenOffice, but I'll be importing plain text from Emacs and just using OO for formating.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    24. Re:vi for writers? by mitheral · · Score: 1

      EMACS might? It has a built in OS a spell checker is elementry :)

    25. Re:vi for writers? by fredrikj · · Score: 1

      If vi had a marketing buzzword guy, you should be it.

      I find your referring to "marketing buzzword guy" as an "it" quite amusing.

    26. Re:vi for writers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Open up notepad.

      Hit Ctrl-G.

      Note the "Goto line" box that appears.

    27. Re:vi for writers? by sjames · · Score: 1

      How many writers know what a regular expression IS, let alone how to search with one? :)

      How many need to? VI makes the common things a single keystroke away, such as up,down,left,right, word forward, word back, change word. It's not hard to remember that /word will find word.

      No matter what you're doing, cw is always easier than select w/ mouse, backspace.

    28. Re:vi for writers? by kirkjobsluder · · Score: 1

      The problem is not the writing, it's the editing. I think that the average published work goes through at least 6 revisions. As such, the ability to quickly find and edit text is a major bonus.

      One of my more productive writing periods used vim as the editor of choice. I'd spend the morning banging out at least 1,000 words of pure shit. Eat lunch with a print-out and fountain pen, then rip through the edits in under a half hour, and spend the afternoon doing research. vim's ability to search through and change text is amazing. (The only reason why I don't continue to write in vim is that everyone wants word documents these days.)

      How many times does someone need a regular expression search?

    29. Re:vi for writers? by Meshach · · Score: 1

      If you've entered 250 pages and have not saved, I'm sorry but you deserve to loose whatever you were working on.

      One of the first things I learned in school was save early and save often!!!

      Meshach

      --
      "Maybe this world is another planet's hell"
      Aldous Huxley
    30. Re:vi for writers? by Bazouel · · Score: 1

      Talk about some *intuitive* shortcuts !

      And Textpad does about everything vim does + syntax highlighting. Notepad is crap and everyone know it or should be told so.

      --
      Intelligence shared is intelligence squared.
    31. Re:vi for writers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those features are nice, but guess which features I use most often and appreciate most in vi (or vim). They are:

      1. Can move up or down a decent chunk of the screen with two keystrokes. Just use "8j" to go down and "8k" to go up. This is easy to do with one hand, and easy to do quickly and repeatedly, and it doesn't require chording (two keys at the same time).
      2. "w" and "b" to move forward/backward in units of words.
      3. "{y}" to copy the current paragraph, and "p" to paste it somewhere. And "{" or "}" to easily get to the place I wanna paste it. Very handy when I realize the order of my paragraphs isn't quite right.
      4. "0" and "$" to get the beginning/end of a line, and "fx" to get to the next occurrence of the letter "x" on the current line. And "cw" to change a word. VERY handy when correcting typos.

      All of these things come in super handy when writing plain old English text. And many of them are just a big pain to accomplish in so many of those "the proper tool for text editing is the mouse" editors.

    32. Re:vi for writers? by bluesnowmonkey · · Score: 1

      notpad can't even do line numbers.

      Control-G.

    33. Re:vi for writers? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
      If vi had a marketing buzzword guy, you should be it.

      I find your referring to "marketing buzzword guy" as an "it" quite amusing.

      Brings to mind Buffalo Bill looking down into a hole in the basement floor and saying: "It comes up with more buzzwords or it doesn't go to the company picnic"

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    34. Re:vi for writers? by odaiwai · · Score: 1

      Vim does syntax highlighting too. I use Vim on linux and textpad on Windows - they both have a similar 'stripped down but powerful' feel to them.

      dave

    35. Re:vi for writers? by frank687 · · Score: 1
      When I first started doing a lot of reading on the computer I had to search long and hard for a program that let me do what I wanted and that handled copy paste from web sites well. What I found was Notetab Light. The best text editor for Windows out there!

      Every computer that I do any work on has the freeware version installed. It opens quickly. makes backups of items and does everything that I need.

  6. My observations... by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I know 3 novel writers and many script writers...

    and they all completely despise Microsoft Word and Open Office.

    some of them even have nasty words to describe both of those products..

    basically the jist of all their gripes is the damned "features" you cannot turn off or get in the way, both apps (word and Open Office) are written for childish minds as one of them put it... "any word processor that does anything you did not specifically ask for is a complete piece of crap" (referring to microsoft word.)

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:My observations... by grub · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Ummm...you can turn off all those "damned features," unless you're too stupid (script writers) to know how.

      If you turn off all those features then you may as well use a simpler, tighter editor in the first place, yes?

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    2. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you turn off all those features then you may as well use a simpler, tighter editor in the first place, yes?

      Well yeah...you might as well just use Wordpad, but the parent was complaining about how MS Word forces you to use every feature. My argument was that you can turn off any feature you don't like.

      I rarely have problems with AutoCorrect and AutoBullets because I'm not a flaming moron.

    3. Re:My observations... by jawtheshark · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Dear AC,

      These damned features are *hard* for normal people to turn off. You may think that it's easy as a seasoned computer user. Just yesterday a friend of mine called me on my cell, just to ask how she could turn off automatic spell checking in Word. She is not dumb at all, but for her this was a task that she could not do alone.

      I had to support a bunch of secretaries when they started off with Word. They all had problems with the feature overload. These secretaries had to write pathological reports and their former system was text-only in a Novel network. Word for them was hell (and the support for me was hell too *grin*).

      Never say that people are stupid because they don't know how to use computers. Otherwhise we are stupid for not being able to write reports at insane speeds.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    4. Re:My observations... by 5KVGhost · · Score: 2, Insightful

      These damned features are *hard* for normal people to turn off. You may think that it's easy as a seasoned computer user. Just yesterday a friend of mine called me on my cell, just to ask how she could turn off automatic spell checking in Word. She is not dumb at all, but for her this was a task that she could not do alone.

      Let's see...

      1. Bring up Help.
      2. Type "turn off automatic spell checking".
      3. Read the first item, "Turn on or off automatic spelling and grammar checking"
      4. Select the stated menu option and checkbox

      Yes, clearly this is an insurmountable task not to be attempted without a trained professional. And you should also wear safety goggles.

      Never say that people are stupid because they don't know how to use computers. Otherwhise we are stupid for not being able to write reports at insane speeds.

      I never say that anyone is stupid because they don't understand an application. Disinterested or lazy, at worst, but never stupid.

      It that particular case I can only assume that it was easier for your friend to call you up and gripe than to take three minutes and look up the answer themselves. But changing the program you give them won't help that problem, it'll just change the sorts of questions you're asked. ("How do I make this vi thing do automatic spell checking?")

    5. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. MS is selling their product to the widest audience.
      2. If this means making products for childish minds, well then it'll be for childish minds.
      3. Open Office follows the MS model to make itself feel similar, thereby attracting current MSOffice users.

      My first sentence also partially explains why Windows is critisized as being bloated - it needs to be all things to all potential customers (excluding minimalists). They can pay extra for frills like pretty printouts and Clippy. Btw, some people actually appreciate the guidance (see sentence #2).

    6. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She's dumb. I've never looked for the spell check setting. It took me about 7 seconds to find it and that included opening word. (Admittedly, I had word open earlier today so it launched in about 2 seconds. It may have taken me an extra 4 or 5 seconds if it was the first launch of the program.)

      Tools->Options. Click "Spelling & Grammar". Change what you want to change. Oh, the humanity!

    7. Re:My observations... by svallarian · · Score: 2, Informative

      Even for us computer experts...with all the different versions of Office, it's still difficult to know exactly where you have to go to disable a particular feature (Outlook is especially bad at hiding things under multiple usless menus)

      Steven V.

      --
      I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."
    8. Re:My observations... by Shalda · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well duh. Word and Open Office aren't designed for professional writers. They're intended for office workers. They server their intended purpose very well, but they can not be all things to all people. Likewise, Vi also has an intended purpose: quick textmode editing of text files. If you're a unix programmer or sys-admin, it's an invaluable tool. But I couldn't imagine trying to write anything extensive with it. There are programs designed to be word processors for serious writers. I don't know what they are or what the good ones are, just that they exist. I just shake my head when I see people using a screwdriver to pound a nail.

    9. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus christ, I hate this site.

      Do you have any idea how hard transcriptioning is? It's not "typing fast".

      The pain...

    10. Re:My observations... by julesh · · Score: 1

      I'm interested. I understand the complaint against MS Word, no need to go into that in any depth, but what precisely do your friends have against OpenOffice?

      I don't believe it has any annoying "get in the way" features like the Office Assistant that are enabled by default, does it?

      I guess there's autocompletion on by default, but that just pops up suggestions and does nothing if you ignore them (unlike the MS word version), so I would have thought that about 5 minutes is all it takes for anyone to get used to that.

      Is there anything else?

    11. Re:My observations... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
      Well, I have personally never seen a normal user actually use the "help" feature of any application. It doesn't come in their mind. It is the same as people not reading their VCR manuals... or heck, even their car manuals.

      Disinterested or lazy, at worst, but never stupid.

      No, they want to get their work done... not going into the details of how the machine works. I have another little anecdote for you: I was once working at a bank as the boy that had to collect the papers from the "out" boxes. I noticed a certain broker was starting up his terminal emulation program every time by typing in a very long command line (this was in the DOS days). I walked over to him and said "just press F3 and then enter, you already have entered it before". He became mad at me and shouted something about "I don't want to know how this computer works, I want to enter my transaction". This is how users work, not like you and me work.

      I wouldn't give vi to that friend of mine in the first place. I like vi for what it does best: editing configuration files on my unix machines.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    12. Re:My observations... by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1
      1. Bring up Help. 2. Type "turn off automatic spell checking".

      And of course everyone knows that right term is "automatic spell checking", not "redlining" or "spellcheck" or "autocorrect".

      Finding what you want in the on-line help is not always as trivial as you make it out to be. Understanding and following the directions given in the help can be even more nontrivial.

      First you have to know that the misfeature you want to deactivate exists - i.e., know that there is automatic spell checking, not just some ill-defined weirdness where what you type isn't what shows up on the screen.

      Then you have to know about, and be able to use, the on-line help system. Then you have to be able to describe the misfeature in the right terms, so it shows up on a search. Then you must make sense of the directions given.

      Failing to complete this string of tasks once or twice is often all it takes to create "learned helplessness", and the user doesn't even bother trying anymore, feeling "It's too complicated, I'm too dumb."

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    13. Re:My observations... by Chilles · · Score: 1, Redundant

      To me, this sounds more like someone needs to be a bit less lazy (namely your friend) and someone needs to learn to say "no" to support questions. Someone who is not dumb at all can find these things out by themselves. The fact that she called you means that that was the easy solution (one phonecall to a friendly helpfull person vs 30 mins searching through menu's and helpfiles.) She hasn't learned a thing from your support though, so next time she needs a feature turned off she'll call you again, and again, and again.....
      People need to understand that using computers is not an easy thing to do even though marketing people and a slick GUI make it look easy, and that learning to use them takes time and energy. You and I (and most slashdotters) didn't get at the level of computer literacy we're at just because we are super geniuses and have a "knack" for it. We all spend hours every day learning these things ourselves and keeping our knowledge up to date.
      I understand that learning Word takes time. It is not, however, particularly hard. In my opinion (and I don't mean to offend) your friend needs to learn to distinguish between hard-as-in-difficult tasks and hard-as-in-I-don't-feel-like-doing-them-and-I-can- ask-my-computer-geek-friend tasks. And that's why I only help people when they're looking for the help function.

    14. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you have any idea how hard transcriptioning is?

      Yeah...you hear shit and type it down. It's not fucking rocket science, you pretentious little shit.

    15. Re:My observations... by jawtheshark · · Score: 2, Insightful
      And that's why I only help people when they're looking for the help function

      Then you don't help a lot of people, do you? Most people don't use the "Help" function.

      I support people because I like to help them, and I know that they don't have the time to actually learn all the finesses of a certain software package. Besides, how would I have sounded when I'd have told her to sod off and click on clippy? Like an asshole. That's the last thing I want from my real life friends. Also, if I do that, the next time she has a problem -a real one, like the computer being infected by a virus or something (shouldn't happen, I made her buy AV software)- then she won't call me. That is the real danger in not helping people.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    16. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "any word processor that does anything you did not specifically ask for is a complete piece of crap"

      amen! My co-workers laugh at me (until they use Word!) becuase my favorite lament while using Word is "Stop helping me!"

    17. Re:My observations... by Politburo · · Score: 1

      "any word processor that does anything you did not specifically ask for is a complete piece of crap"

      Default settings aside, Autoformat and Autocomplete are extremely useful. Anyone who says otherwise simply hasn't put in the 2 minutes of effort it takes to set it up to their desires.

    18. Re:My observations... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Then try doing it for pathological reports that are littered with terms that I don't even know what they are. (for your information: I don't post AC, but I agree with the AC that took the time to reply to you)

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    19. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had to support a bunch of secretaries when they started off with Word. They all had problems with the feature overload...Word for them was hell (and the support for me was hell too *grin*)

      Did you know you could create a slimmed-down Word config and automatically propagate it to all the users? Word's default config is built to satisfy feature checklists, not productivity.

    20. Re:My observations... by Alyeska · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Exactly: The Word Interface is clunky. Non-intuitive menus. I'm a very seasoned user, writer (I use FrameMaker, btw), and much of the automata of Word is hard to seek and destroy.

      e.g., spell-check options and auto-correct spell-check options are in different menu trees. The former has a control that says, "Correct spelling as I type," but that *isn't* the auto-correct (but it seems like it might be...). One is in general preferences dialog, the other in "tools." Not, NOT intuitive.

    21. Re:My observations... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
      You think it took me more time to find that out? (Heck, I know it by heart because it is the feature that most word users want turned of at once) She perhaps would have lost 30 minutes figuring it out.

      Apart from that, did you consider that there are different language versions of Office? She was using a french version (she was at work) and at home she has an english version.

      I had to support dial-up settings at an ISP for some time. You wouldn't believe how difficult it is when people ask support when you have an english version in front of you and the customer has a french or german version.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    22. Re:My observations... by pmz · · Score: 1

      Autoformat and Autocomplete are extremely useful.

      Only among people who can't type. Autocomplete disrupts the flow of writing and thinking so severely that it is among the first features I disable.

    23. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And of course everyone knows that right term is "automatic spell checking", not "redlining" or "spellcheck" or "autocorrect".

      I just checked all three of those search strings in Word (using the convient little help field located in top right of my screen) and got results that told me how to turn off auto spell check EACH TIME.

      Therefore, chief, your argument is bullshit.

    24. Re:My observations... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      No, I did not know that (I am by no means a Word expert). Have any pointers to that? It might prove extermely useful next time I have to do stuff like that.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    25. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once again, knowing how to spell terms is not the equivalence of intelligence. If you use the word everyday, you sure as hell better know how to spell it.

      Any dumbshit can type fast and spell big words with enough practice, but it takes a true moron to not understand a simple option menu or help directory.

    26. Re:My observations... by Politburo · · Score: 1

      Well perhaps I should have added "for most people". When properly configured, Autoformat and Autocomplete do not disrupt your typing. I can type, but I can't spell, and autoformat assists with these types of errors. Also, autoformat is very useful for setting up a quick bulletted or numbered list. I also work at a place where we use our full corporate name in every document, and using autocomplete saves me 30 keystrokes every time I have to input that name.

    27. Re:My observations... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
      And I just typed in how most people call the automatic spell checker, namely "Squiggly red line". It says indeed "Customize spelling and grammar checking", which is of course very obvious. *ahem*
      The help text associated with it is.

      "To improve the accuracy and speed of a spelling and grammar check, you can set spelling and grammar options and use special dictionaries. For example, use a custom or supplemental dictionary to check words that the spelling checker doesn't recognize, such as technical terms or text in other languages. Or, use an exclude dictionary to specify preferred spellings for words."

      No word about "automatic spell checking". From that screen it is just 2 clicks away, but you have to know you're looking for spell checking options in the first place.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    28. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      No, I did not know that (I am by no means a Word expert). Have any pointers to that? It might prove extermely useful next time I have to do stuff like that.

      Word stores all this good config stuff in its templates, including the menus, toolbars, and all the behavioral options (like auto-spell checking, etc). A Word template is a lot more than just a formatting baseline - it's a container for all the config info Word uses when it opens a new document.

      To create a template for distribution:
      1. Open a new Word document
      2. Configure Word to your heart's content. Set spelling options, slim down toolbars and menus.
      3. Save the document as YourTemplate.dot (make sure you switch the filetype to .DOT)

      Then distribute the template to everyone. Tell them to start all new documents using that template, and they will have all your saved config options on every new document.

      But, nobody will remember to use your template. So, you have to distribute the template as "Normal.dot" which is the name of Word's default template. You'll have to either push the template to their clients, or make sure their Word client's template path is pointed at some network drive that contains your new template. There are probably better ways to do this; I'm not an admin.

      Start by looking up Templates in the online help. Then look up "Normal template."

      "Normal" is a special template in Word that contains all the user settings.

      Here's the entry from my Word 97 help:

      The Normal template

      The Normal template is a general-purpose template for any type of document. When you start Word or click New , Word creates a new blank document that is based on the Normal template. You can modify this template to change the default document formatting or content.
      Word also uses the Normal template to store the AutoText entries, macros, toolbars, and custom menu settings and shortcut keys you routinely use. Customized items that you store in the Normal template are available for use with any document.

      You should store the Normal template in the Templates folder or in the User Templates or Workgroup Templates file location you specified on the File Locations tab (Tools menu, Options command). If Word can't find the Normal template in any of these locations or in your Word program folder, it creates a new Normal template with the standard Word document formats and the standard menu, toolbar, and shortcut key settings.

    29. Re:My observations... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
      You don't deal with users often, do you?

      Calling them "dumb" is never a way to stay friendly with them.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    30. Re:My observations... by hummassa · · Score: 1

      There are programs designed to be word processors for serious writers. I don't know what they are or what the good ones are, just that they exist.
      But... it's vi! unix was meant to be a text-processing system, this way:
      vi -> *roff if needed -> paper.

      --
      It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
    31. Re:My observations... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      You obviously have a newer version of Word than me since mine gives the option to automatically correct text, or correct spelling and grammar. I don't want to do either of these. In fact, I want to not do these. And there's the problem. Online help never works! Even if it does, people are so used to it answering the wrong question that they've given up completely.

    32. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I just searched for "squiggly red line" in MS Word 2002 and got this as my first result *ahem* (jackass):

      You can show or hide the wavy underlines that appear when you automatically check spelling and grammar, or when you automatically check formatting consistency.

      Spelling and grammar

      On the Tools menu, click Options, and then click the Spelling & Grammar tab.
      Make sure the Check spelling as you type and/or Check grammar as you type check boxes are selected.
      Select or clear the Hide spelling errors in this document or Hide grammatical errors in this document check box.
      Once again, your argument is bullshit.
    33. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes...I call every user "dumb" to their face. You found me out. Congratulations.

      Ass.

      I think you're missing the point, big guy. The whole reason for this arugment was that you shouldn't be offering your expert critique of a piece of software if you can't even navigate a menu correctly.

    34. Re:My observations... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
      Well, I still use Office 97. Glad to hear they improved that part in the help. Seems that it needed to be enhanced, no?

      My argument would be bullshit if Office 97 did tell me what was going on, it didn't...

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    35. Re:My observations... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the info. I didn't know *everything* was stored in normal.dot, including the menu structure and settings. Good thing to know.
      (I looked for it in the most evident place on a W32 machine: the registry...)

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    36. Re:My observations... by adrizk · · Score: 1

      1. Bring up Help.
      2. Type "turn off automatic spell checking".
      3. Read the first item, "Turn on or off automatic spelling and grammar checking"
      4. Select the stated menu option and checkbox

      Yes, clearly this is an insurmountable task not to be attempted without a trained professional. And you should also wear safety goggles.

      You forgot:
      5. Repeat for turning off: auto capitalization, autocomplete, automatic help; changing fonts, margins, etc, etc... which really was the whole point of the article..
      Sure once you know how you can figure out how to do all these things, but unless you are an expert with Word it'll take a bit of time per feature, which adds up to a lot of time, which you'd probably rather be spending writing, because that's why you have the software in the first place..

      Or in other words, good documentation is not a substitute for sensible program design

    37. Re:My observations... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
      You get upset very fast. Calling me an ass and such. Hey, I stayed polite. Can't you just return that courtesy?

      The whole reason for this arugment was that you shouldn't be offering your expert critique of a piece of software if you can't even navigate a menu correctly.

      I know very well how to navigate the menus, thank you very much. I don't have a problem with Word, and I disable all the stuff I don't like the first time I start it up on a new machine.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    38. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I'm on my third book writing in OpenOffice.

      I've used Scripset (Trs-80), Bank Street Writer (Apple II), Wordstar (Apple II with CPM), Wordperfect (in its glorious DOS days), Word and OpenOffice. The worst thing that happened to me was Wordperfect 4.1 eating text out of the middle of my document because it reached some kind of length limit.

      I find that I spend all my time writing words. The only formatting I do is double-spacing and first-line indent. I don't use a grammar checker or spellchecker because I prefer to re-read my works 4-5 times (all 85,000 words each) than depend on the computer. I turn off all the toolbars, rulers, assistance etc. and work with the empty white screen with basic menus.

      I also use OpenOffice to do my labels for my submission envelopes and to run a spreadsheet that keeps track of the time I spend working/doing other things.

      As far as I'm concerned, I've always strongly believed that you need to understand how to use your tools effectively. I learn enough to do that and it saves me from bitching like some primadonna hare-brained bozo. I plead ignorance a lot these days to save myself from deluges of lazy morons' questions.

    39. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't have to be upset to call you an ass.

      And don't try to play that courteous card...you're still a smug sonofabitch.

    40. Re:My observations... by sewagemaster · · Score: 1

      ... unless you have a lifetime warrenty for your screwdriver

      (as they say in the latex docs)

    41. Re:My observations... by TomV · · Score: 1

      I can certainly second that take on autocomplete. I spent a summer typing up ISO 9000 documentation, and great swathes of these documents were built around a tight set of phrases and constructions that could be condensed through autocomplete. "It is the responsibility of the Plant Manager to ensure that production staff comply with the appropriate blah blah and any relevant statutory regulations blah." Once that was down to just typing "resp planman to ensure that prostf compregs" and so forth for everyone from the Finance Director to the Night Cleaners, and the list of autocompletes had a few dozen entries, the typing work got finished weeks early and they had to find me some interesting stuff to do instead :-).

      tomV

    42. Re:My observations... by bpowell423 · · Score: 1

      This is exactly the problem my wife (then a teacher, now a stay-at-home mom) had with MS Office on the computer at work (school). All the Microsoft auto-formatting crap kept getting in her way and causing her documents, letters home to parents, etc to look terrible. She would come home and use our WordPerfect whenever possible.

    43. Re:My observations... by Darth+Hubris · · Score: 1

      The users are all idiots until they prove otherwise. You do not tell them they are such. You'll never, ever hear anything so precious as to hear a Microsoft employee say they are not very computer literate.

      --
      The party's over ... the drink ... and the luck ... ran out
    44. Re:My observations... by theonetruekeebler · · Score: 1
      Indeed. My wife shouts "Stop helping me!" at her computer any time she uses Word for anything longer than, well, shutting it right back down again.

      I've been trying to get her to use Write instead, but she's not biting.

      --
      This is not my sandwich.
    45. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      anyone who say's they are helpful hasn't ever tried to format their own document and had to fight it.

    46. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I have quite successfully written an SF novel >140,000 words - plus additional short stories set in the same world, in emacs.

      emacs rocks! emacs rulz!

      I only use the likes of Word or Writer to set the fonts, pagination, etc. the serious work of writing I do in emacs.

    47. Re:My observations... by starburst · · Score: 1

      My boss has written at least 20 published books since I've worked for him. He hates MS Word and its ilk. He writes it all in WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS. He would prefer to use WordPerfect 5.0 but we cannot get it to work consistently on his new Dell.

      He hates all the extras that Word adds - he says it makes it slow and clunky. He also complains that Word does not let you see and edit the raw codes like you can in WordPerfect.

      I'm not sure what he'll do when MS no longer supports 8 bit DOS applications.

    48. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try bochs+freedos for wp5.0

      WP5.1 was phenomenal, though it wasn't WYSIWYG, it was WYTISWYG (what you type . . .) which is a great idea. If only Word had a "nothing-automatic" installation option . . .

    49. Re:My observations... by 5KVGhost · · Score: 1

      You forgot:
      5. Repeat for turning off: auto capitalization, autocomplete, automatic help; changing fonts, margins, etc, etc... which really was the whole point of the article..
      Sure once you know how you can figure out how to do all these things, but unless you are an expert with Word it'll take a bit of time per feature, which adds up to a lot of time, which you'd probably rather be spending writing, because that's why you have the software in the first place.


      The post to whom I responded didn't mention any of those other features. How do we know that the user they're helping doesn't want them? I despise auto-formatting, for example, but I have a nasty tendency to transpose letters in certain words, so the autocorrection feature can be helpful.

      It doesn't take that long to configure those options. All the "Auto" options are under one place, after all. And you only have to do it once to set it the way you want it. The settings are per-user, too, for shared machines.

      Or in other words, good documentation is not a substitute for sensible program design

      I certainly agree with you there. Far too many programs use "RTFM" as a crutch for a bad interface. That said, I don't think Word's interface is all that bad. Even the much-maligned Office Assistant can be helpful for beginners. But a more consistent presentation and a simplified set of options might help get new users started without inconveniencing those who know exactly what settings they want.

    50. Re:My observations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Poor girl. When she returns to her terminal, she'll find Word auto-corrects 'the' to 'muff'."

    51. Re:My observations... by Rob+Simpson · · Score: 1

      As the AC pointed out, the parent said: "the jist of all their gripes is the damned "features" you cannot turn off or get in the way". Reasons you might want to use such a program include the features you'd use when you want them, like spellchecking, thesaurus, headers and footers with automatic page numbering, etc.

    52. Re:My observations... by Magius_AR · · Score: 1
      basically the jist of all their gripes is the damned "features" you cannot turn off or get in the way

      Cannot? It's hard to think of a default feature in Word that's annoying that cannot be turned off. Spell/grammar highlighting is easily turned off...as is auto-correcting/auto-formatting...that's probably the most annoying feature. Well that or the paperclip (which can also be disabled). Methinks these writers you speak of were either too stupid or too lazy to figure out how to do it. But don't let me stop them from turning to paper and pen. I fully believe that those who don't possess the patience and intelligence to learn to use a computer should in fact not have one.

    53. Re:My observations... by Politburo · · Score: 1

      Battle of the generalizations! Except yours makes no sense. Sorry :(

    54. Re:My observations... by Sablepegasus · · Score: 1

      Exactly right, Lumpy.
      I'm a novel and short story writer. About all MS Word was good for was printing and even so, I would have to spend about 30 min to an hour formatting the MS to make it 'publication legal'.
      Open Office and I have an even worse relationship.

      I love Linux. However, I have not been able to find a word processor for it that does what I need it to do. Either the WP for Linux are too feature light or too feature heavy or don't always work like they're supposed to. It also complicates matters that I use a Compaq Presario 1244 laptop and am really not interested in upgrading because it works perfectly fine for me.

      I will tell you what though. I fell in love with Word Perfect for DOS. And the version Novell released was the best. I have never been able to get WP for Linux to install correctly, which is primarily why I can't use Linux on my own personal system.

      So I use Word Perfect 6.1 for Win and a fantastic little program called RoughDraft by Richard Salsbury. It was written by a writer for writers.
      No stupid bells and whistles. Only a few small bugs that are -well documented- in the help manual and -easy to fix-! It doesn't format MS for publication standard printing yet, but that is the only printing issue.

      And most unfortunately, it only has a Win edition available since he writes it as Donationware.

      But for those Linux-disciples:
      If I went without my online thesaurus programs and spell checkers, I could cope with KDE's KWord program (since I collect Thesauri and Dictionaries) but would still have to port any MS composed on it to Word Perfect 6.1 for Windows to format and print it.

      Before I got a new copy of WP 6.1 for Windoze, I had to use Word for printing. Open Office has never worked for me.

      However, as you can tell from my preferred hardware and software, I've been working in the computer stone ages for a while, but I tend to stick with what works. I have run Mandrake 9.1 and am currently working under an XP Professional install that has worked exceptionally well for me. Mind you, however, I don't use any Microsoft products on it besides the OS.

      But for those writers stuck with Microsoft, Rough Draft is definitely the best composer out there. Maybe someday he will make a Linux version. But for now, I will stay with Rough Draft and WP 6.1. At least I don't have to use Word!

      Find me a Linux Word Processor that has a decent spell checker and thesaurus, allows you to:

      * underline freely
      * set quotation marks (I prefer straight to curly)
      * set and modify tabs
      * set margins, headers and footers
      * set fonts
      * format the header for properly placed page numbers
      * can read RTF format (unfortunately, I was convinced to convert all my work to this format, only to find many Linux text editors and word processors except OO don't convert it)
      * and make it STABLE and I'll more than willingly convert to Linux for keeps.

      Sable

  7. Article -1 Flamebait by SMOC · · Score: 0, Insightful

    vi has a 70s ambience (no mouse, no GUI) that's refreshingly clean.

    So does edlin. Come on, get real. The only benefit of vi is that it's available on a most unix-like systems, so you can quickly hack something together if you're in a hurry, Anything more, and you're going to need a REAL editor.

    --
    All errors in this comment are mine. Corrections are considered a derivative work, and punishable under copyright law.
    1. Re:Article -1 Flamebait by Le+Marteau · · Score: 1

      Anything more, and you're going to need a REAL editor

      Like Vim ;)

      --
      Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
  8. Mr Duncan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I met him at a writers conference in the outskirts of Detroit. He presented a small essay about the life of the borgeouis class in late 19th century Germany which many people found fascinating. But what astounded me, and I'm not usually that superficial, is how even though he had a pronounced lisp he was one of the most captivating speakers in the seminar.

    I spoke to him the following and explained to him that he was one of my main writing influences. I think I mildly embarassed him since he seemed to lost for words.

    Great chap and an excellent writer.

    Which is nice.

    1. Re:Mr Duncan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, David. Or Anonymous. Whatever you call yourself today. We hear ya'. Loud and clear.

    2. Re:Mr Duncan by sean23007 · · Score: 1

      he seemed to lost for words.

      Out of curiosity, is he still one of your main writing influences? ;)

      --

      Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
  9. Every day, Slashdot proves that good writing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...can be mixed with computers. Does anyone know where I can find some more hallucinogenic mushrooms? I've recently run out.

  10. Bleah by Enry · · Score: 1

    I've written two books, a computer-based-training video script (and text), and more than a few LDP HOWTOs using only vi. Keep sections of text small, use something like DocBook to tie it all together and make it look pretty in the end.

  11. WFB on WordStar by RabidOverYou · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "I'm told there are better programs [than WordStar], but I'm also told there are better alphabets." --William F. Buckley Jr.

    This is a darn old quote; I've no idea what he's running these days.

  12. Amazing by cubicledrone · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is truly amazing how important the simple act of writing really is. Nearly every form of education, entertainment, business and reference is totally dependent on letters, words and sentences.

    In the face of $100 million motion picture budgets and teams of hundreds building video games, the words of another author remain quite profound:

    "With words alone, I have an unlimited special effects budget."

    --
    Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
  13. Re:In 1996, War was beginning by SMOC · · Score: 0, Insightful

    I would not call vi particularly intuitive, but it does cut down on pointless formatting decisions that seem to endlessly arise.

    Yes, and Paint cuts down on pointless design decisions that seem to arise from crap like Photoshop. Get real please.

    --
    All errors in this comment are mine. Corrections are considered a derivative work, and punishable under copyright law.
  14. Microsoft Word on Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love using Microsoft Word on my Mac to write my books. It has a certain feel to it that is very comfortable.

  15. Textpad!! by NineNine · · Score: 4, Informative

    Personally, I've been a fan of Textpad for years, and it's one of the few pieces of shareware that I actually bought. Light, fast, with incredicle search and replace (even regular expressions). I use it for the few documents I write, and any coding that I might do.

    1. Re:Textpad!! by 514x0r · · Score: 1

      agreed. this is one of the few things i miss from windows.
      plus, the mapping of ctrl+1 to compile and ctrl+2 to run java code made it especially nice. i got so used to it that from time to time i will go through the ctrl+s, ctrl+1, ctrl+2 sequence on my linux box.

      vi,kate.

      --

      !(^((ri)|(mp))aa$)
    2. Re:Textpad!! by pileated · · Score: 1

      Yep, it's still the text editor I use most when I'm on Windows. It just does what it's supposed to without any mess or annoyance. Too bad no one wanted to pay for that type of software!!

      In fact it's probably my most used program, outside of a browser, since I use it for most coding.

      Of course when I'm on the 'nixes nothing beats vi!

    3. Re:Textpad!! by belchingjester · · Score: 1

      I've got to agree - got our whole development staff hooked on TextPad several years ago. Especially nice for coding are things like the syntax libraries for color-coding, and the excellent search/replace/bookmark (grep-like, even) and extensible copy/paste. Vi - blech! I have used vi (even used WinVi a while back), but it's just too clunky. Yes, it's available everywhere - so is McDonald's, but you wouldn't choose to eat there unless you have an "Accidental Tourist" view of the world.

    4. Re:Textpad!! by nv5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      yessss! on Windows, it is still my favorite text editor. It is extremely intuitive. When one of the Java developers of my last company made me aware of it, and I had the control over the development tools budget, we gladly paid for a copy for every developer. on Linux/KDE, I've been using Kate for HTML and PHP coding.

    5. Re:Textpad!! by fredrikj · · Score: 1

      Add another TextPad fan here! I just love the program.

      Might even consider registering... :P

    6. Re:Textpad!! by Lije+Baley · · Score: 1

      I've gotta put in my vote for TextPad too. It makes life on Windows bearable.

      --
      Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
    7. Re:Textpad!! by pmz · · Score: 2, Funny

      I use it for the few documents I write, and any coding that I might do.

      What about ASCII "art" for your website?

    8. Re:Textpad!! by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 1

      Try NitroLite.
      [http://adamware.com/nitrol.html]

      It's written by an MS-Dev on his spare time. Learned about it when I worked there.

      Goals: 100k executable, xcopy install. Does syntax highlighting for C, C#, web, xml, &c. Bunch o' buffers. Can exec. shell proggies inside it.

      It's the best for a good 'ol editor.

    9. Re:Textpad!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Especially nice for coding are things like the syntax libraries for color-coding

      yes, because the first thing i worry about when i'm WRITING A BOOK is how will i go about color-coding my source code.

  16. Maybe an HTML-like editor is what's needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a common complaint from writers - The computer gets in their way asking for irrelevent decisions.

    HTML got it right in this respect. HTML doesn't encourage you to select a font, or a size or anything. You can if you want, but if you ignore the problem, you end up with a perfectly reasonable default. It does however, have advantages over a plain text editor - It allows these things if you want them. vi will not give you a variable width font, bold or italics, or headings. These are often useful. The actual details are left to the reader.

    1. Re:Maybe an HTML-like editor is what's needed by mrmoo1231 · · Score: 1

      Why are you comparing a markup *language* to an editor which is a piece of *software*?
      Vi will not per se give you fonts, bold, or italics, but you can sure as hell use it or any other plain text editor to reach such ends.
      Let's not get our ends & means mixed up...

    2. Re:Maybe an HTML-like editor is what's needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are you comparing a markup *language* to an editor which is a piece of *software*?

      Because HTML *illustrates* the *functionality* that people need. See - they both have a certain amount of functionality, even though they are completely different things. They are two different means to produce the same ends - To produce text on a screen. The people who designed HTML realised that most people aren't interested in stylistic choices, and simply want a few simple abilities.

      vi is not WYSIWYG. It is therefore not that useful for giving bold and italics. You do still want to read what you've just written.

      So, to clarify, what we need is an editor that just gives you text in an arbitrary font and size, unless you explicitely tell it to do something else.

  17. Dunno about vi, but... by dustmote · · Score: 1

    I sympathize with the author's complaint about the "writing with a computer" experience. I don't have that degree of trouble with software packages, but I have long since learned that if I wish to write anything, it is better for me to set up a separate machine with no distractions on it for that purpose. The good thing is that if you really only want to do word processing in a fairly limited sense, you can use a very old machine. This beats my old system of typing everything the first time on an antique typewriter from the 40's, and then editing via the transfer to an electronic medium. That old typewriter was hell to lug around, Hunter S. Thompson in Fear and Loathing style, but it had a satisfying clunk when the keys were pressed.

    --


    -1, "1337" speak
  18. Writing novels with real tools by N7DR · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I don't suppose that anyone is really interested, but this does give me the opportunity to say that my novels have all been written using absolutely the best tools for the job: a real editor (in my case, mostly VEDIT Plus under Windows, although I also did one with emacs) and Plain Tex. Yes, that's Plain Tex, not LaTeX.

    I remain firmly convinced that the combination of a powerful editor and Plain TeX cannot be beat.

    The problem, though, is that nowadays publishers more and more demand manuscripts in the form of M$ Word files, which frankly sucks. I am measurably less productive under Word than I am with the combination of (editor + Plain TeX), and I suspect that the same would be true of most authors who are technically competent.

    1. Re:Writing novels with real tools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you point me to a tutorial for plain Tex and describe why you like it better than LaTeX? I just discovered the beauty of LaTeX using TeXShop in OS X. TeXShop supports plain Tex as well. The *TeX way of doing things has proven far superior to me over the word-processing way of doing things.

    2. Re:Writing novels with real tools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



      I use tex for technical stuff, but am also sporadically working a non-mathematical booklength manuscript (in my copious free time ).

      Write with tex, and then convert it to html, which should be readable by word. Or use tex2rtf, which I haven't tried recently (I used it ages ago) but should test again before I get too much further along, in case I need it to produce the Word file at the end of it all (if I ever get to the end!).

    3. Re:Writing novels with real tools by DukeyToo · · Score: 1

      The biggest mistake in the design of the modern word processor is the direct access to a choice of fonts. The most under-utilized feature of the modern word processor is the use of "styles".

      The first incorporates desktop publishing features into a document writing tool (something writers do not need, because it is done by the publisher), and the second allows the author to add meta-data, thus improving the value of the document (assuming the publisher is equipped to read and use your meta-data, this is a good thing).

      If you are going to use the font choice in your word processor, you might as well use vi or some other text editor. At its heart a document is just words and paragraphs. Formatting is irrelevant, except when it is being displayed. Thus the invention of CSS for the web.

      My understanding of the new breed of XML based word processors is that they will provide a better foundation for representing the underlying meta-data of a document. They will also separate the text from the layout. A step in the right direction.

      --
      Most writers regard truth as their most valuable possession, and therefore are most economical in its use - Mark Twain
    4. Re:Writing novels with real tools by Ian+Bicking · · Score: 2, Insightful
      From what I can tell, most publishers don't really trust their writers to do anything but the simplest formatting or typesetting (nor probably to most writers want to think about typesetting). The Word document they are looking for is as plain as can be -- maybe a few italics here and there at most. Probably of more interest to the publishers is the track changes mode in Word. They probably won't do any formatting until the book is very close to finished, but tracking changes is important. I don't know what tools support this in other formats, like RTF.

      A slim subset of HTML seems best to me -- p, br, h1, i, b, maybe tt. Maybe some other details if depending on the domain. Amount and type of whitespace explicitly insignificant. Comparisons relatively easy due to the primitive structure. No attempt at semantics -- that's for indexers and people involved later on, if it happens at all. No one can agree on semantics anyway. The focus should be on content. But that still presupposes tools that I am not certain exist -- accessible editors with that can handle comparisons, accessible storage of revisions, safe transport of documents without loss of information, high enough availability that all the likely freelancers involved in the process (editor, copywriter, proofreader, researcher, indexer, etc) will have access and sufficient skill in the tools... well, that's why they choose Word. Ironically, the actual features publishers need aren't that extensive -- far less than what a secretary needs! -- but they're still stuck with Word.

    5. Re:Writing novels with real tools by pmz · · Score: 1

      I don't know what tools support this in other formats, like RTF.

      TeX/LaTeX are very amenable to diff and VC systems like CVS.

    6. Re:Writing novels with real tools by Ian+Bicking · · Score: 1
      diff doesn't work well with most human text (as opposed to program text). Because it is line-based it will not give good indications of what changes were made, because most human text is not line-based. Tracking mode in Word is quite granular -- when you delete a single space, for instance, it marks only that single space.

      I've had decent success using diff-like tools working on a per-word basis using HTML. Presumably you could do the same thing with TeX. But there is no tool support for this. Even in the case of diff there are tools that browse the changes nicely, but few (any?) GUI tools that allow you to interact with the text while simultaneously seeing the changes.

    7. Re:Writing novels with real tools by pmz · · Score: 1

      diff doesn't work well with most human text (as opposed to program text). Because it is line-based it will not give good indications of what changes were made, because most human text is not line-based.

      At least with TeX/LaTeX, diff should catch changes in paragraph-sized blocks, because paragraphs are separated by a single blank line. While not on a per-word granularity, it can narrow the scope enough for most tasks.

      The per-word diff tools you saw for HTML should work for LaTeX, too--as long as they weren't crippled by being HTML-only.

      BTW, how would a tool like Word handle revisions of revisions of revisions in the same file? What about multiple revisions among several people? If Word can't handle these well, then there are still benefits to managing large documents in LaTeX and CVS.

    8. Re:Writing novels with real tools by scrotch · · Score: 1

      -- A slim subset of HTML seems best to me -- p, br, h1, i, b, maybe tt. Maybe some other details if depending on the domain. Amount and type of whitespace explicitly insignificant.

      This is genius. Can we do this? Can we describe a 'lite' styled document format? We can call it an XML format if it makes anyone happy. We'll make it a lite version of html. I vote for h1, b, i, br, and u - as regular < tags >.

      We'll have this format (maybe "LSTF" for Lite Styled Text Format?) and provide an easy conversion to full HTML (add head and body tags) and Quark Tag Format (which looks really similar).

      We'll write apps that limit people to these choices - no fonts, no sizes in the document, just the display.

      Sound good? I'm not being sarcastic, even if I sound a little crazed. I need something that imports into Quark XPress and is easily converted to HTML (or vice versa) that can be stored in a database. This is perfect. I've been thinking about it for a while. My programming isn't quite there yet, but I want to write an app to do this - in Java probably.

      If we standardize the format, everyone can use it. It'll be HTML's little brother and SWF's cousin.

    9. Re:Writing novels with real tools by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 1


      [...] publishers more and more demand manuscripts in the form of M$ Word files, which frankly sucks.

      Which REALLY sucks when you consider what they (publishers) do with your work after you submit it. They reformat it, choosing completely new fonts, completley new headings, completely new paragraph styles, and so on. So at that point why did they want anything from you other than the plain old text? A system of post-processing (like tex or nroff) is a PERFECT fit for what they do, but they don't do it anymore. And the really frustrating thing is *why* they do it. It's not because it makes their lives easier (publishers now have to have people frustratingly fiddle with Word to undo the formatting in submitted texts)

      They do everything in Word because that's what they think the authors themselves want. They figure if they didn't use a standard of Word, authors would go publish with someone else who will. And they're probably right in that.

      So if you want someone to blame, don't blame the publisher - blame fellow authors' technical ignorance at the tools of their chosen profession. It's in vogue to say that knowing the computer tools isn't their problem, but I say bullshit. Imagine if someone claimed in the 1960's that an author shouldn't be expected to know how to use a typewriter. They'd be laughed at. Of COURSE authors should understand the tools of the trade, and that should include understanding the difference between a word processor and a document formatter, and when one is more appropriate than the other.

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

    10. Re:Writing novels with real tools by Ian+Bicking · · Score: 1
      Word doesn't do very sophisticated revision management, as far as I can tell. But I only watched other people use it, I didn't use it myself.

      Typically you'd put the document in Tracking mode, and all the changes would be highlighted (green for added text, red strikethrough for deleted). This is saved with the document, and can be handed around -- no client-server style is required (easier to use, mostly with email attachments, though you can also imagine all the clerical work this requires to manage). Once an editor was satisfied they'd Accept Changes, and all the revision marks would go away -- vaguely like a commit. I don't know if old revisions were available at all (I kind of doubt it, but then with the amount of stuff in a Word document it seems like it should be able to fit in there somewhere). There were also problems with authors or people who weren't part of the professional editing cycle not being trusted to do this stuff right.

      In terms of archival, backups, auditing, etc., it's not a very good system at all. But the UI is pretty decent. The changes are also quite accurate, since it tracks the actual changes you make as opposed to finding the minimal changes required given two versions of a document, as diff does. This is especially important in Word, where there's a lot of styling information, much of it hidden, implicitly inserted, and possibly redundant.

      People didn't seem to have much respect for Word's diff-like comparison feature. Probably the comparison was hampered by all the spurious changes that Word inserts as you edit, but I never tried it. Maybe a diff-like comparison would be okay (as opposed to tracking every change as it is made), if the comparison was high quality. But it's really the inline display of differences in the editable document that was the prime feature.

    11. Re:Writing novels with real tools by Aidtopia · · Score: 1

      You saved me a long post. I'm also a text editor and plain TeX author. I made a macro package that allows me to do some simple, basic markup (e.g., \beginchapter). I've got two implementations that I can swap between. One gives the old-fashioned manuscript format that many editors still prefer (and is great for hardcopy edits), the other prints like a nicely typeset book (prefered by those who give me feedback).

      As a programmer, I'm very comfortable with the concept of source code and compiled results. WYSIWYG editors simply don't make any sense. Why should I tie my formatting decisions to my text?

      My few miserable attempts at using MS Word have produced frustration beyond anything I've experienced in my nearly 30 years of experience with computers. Everything Word does is absolutely counter-intuitive to me.

    12. Re:Writing novels with real tools by Sablepegasus · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the publication industry is about 10 years behind the technology industry. I see publishers still asking for typewritten copy.

      Asking for electronic submissions on floppy in MS Word format sux big time, I agree. What I end up doing is converting if I have to submit in Word format, or I opt to send a printed sub. Most publishers still prefer hard copy to electronic anyway.

      I have two systems, on one runs the latest copy of Word (since my husband supports MS products at work, he has up to date versions of most software, so we have it. We rarely use it though) and I use Word Perfect 6.1 Novell to convert anything I write in Rough Draft to whatever format the publisher wants. Then I check it on Word to make sure it came out ok. But that's a lot of work.

      It would be a hell of a lot easier if publishers would take RTF or plain text. Both of those formats are pretty good, though TXT doesn't allow for formatting and so forth.

      I am the most productive under Rough Draft, which is pretty much a RTF editor with a couple of additional 'bells and whistles' that make it a little easier. And I agree, the more bloated a product gets, the less productive I am.

      I'm just not quite ready to drop back down to Plain Tex level yet. Although I am heading that way, I think. ;>

      I run pretty mean and lean on XP with just Rough Draft and WP 6.1 though. But there's always room for improvement, if I've got industry standard software elsewhere to convert to should I need it. I realize not everyone has that kind of set up though.

      Sable

  19. Same here by JanneM · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not at all at the level of "real" wordsmithing, but I wrote my Ph.D. thesis in Vi (Vim, to be exact) using LaTeX. Same goes for all papers and other 'professional' text generation.

    What a word processor does well, on the other hand, are short documents that are due to be printed and consumed immediately, such as letters, applications and so on. For such stuff, you can't really separate content creation and formatting anymore, and LaTeX becomes too heavyweight to deal with it. Of course, with that focus for wordprocessing, 95% of all features are absolutely worthless.

    --
    Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    1. Re:Same here by LaRueLaDue · · Score: 0

      Try lyx...

    2. Re:Same here by JanneM · · Score: 1

      Don't want to get into a big argument here, but for me, LyX is _exactly_ the wrong tool. It removes the disjunction between writing and typesetting that is the whole point of LaTeX for me (and most other LaTeX users). LyX is, for me, to remove the best parts of working with LaTeX, only to replace it with the worst parts of wordprocessors.

      Oh, btw, it may not have been clear in my previous post, but I am very happy with the tools I use, by and large. Vim+LaTeX for big texts and Abiword for the short stuff I mentioned.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
  20. Tools of the trade. by PhxBlue · · Score: 1

    I like to write my first drafts in pencil and paper. I use a 0.5mm #2 Pentel pencil, a Magic Rub eraser, and college-ruled paper. Subsequent drafts are typically on PC, in whatever format--usually .DOC format, since I primarily use Windows at home. I spent a half hour configuring the normal.dot template the way I wanted it, and I was off and running.

    I recall listening to Harlan Ellison describe why he uses typewriters--such "features" as having to rewrite the entire page when you make mistakes, etc.. But that does help with the writing process, at least in my opinion: the more you write and re-write a story, after all, the more familiar you are with it.

    --
    !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    1. Re:Tools of the trade. by Theaetetus · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I like to write my first drafts in pencil and paper. I use a 0.5mm #2 Pentel pencil, a Magic Rub eraser, and college-ruled paper. Subsequent drafts are typically on PC, in whatever format--usually .DOC format, since I primarily use Windows at home. I spent a half hour configuring the normal.dot template the way I wanted it, and I was off and running.

      Call it a result of my lousy public school upbringing, or a result of my 17 years of piano lessons, but I can type at 95 wpm and handwrite at only 15-20. Typing, I can almost keep up with my thoughts, and I find that papers, essays, and stories flow much easier from my mind to the page. Writing by hand, by the end of a long sentence, I've gotten so wrapped up in the mechanics of writing - loops, curves, dotting the T's and crossing the I's - that I've lost the flow, and have to frequently read back the same line over and over again to complete the thought.

      I'm not saying it's for everyone, but when teachers stopped insisting on handwritten rough drafts, I was a happy man.

      -T

    2. Re:Tools of the trade. by cei · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In a previous /. discussion on the death of cursive writing, one of the arguments FOR writing longhand was that it made you think harder about what you were committing to paper. A million monkeys with computers can generate a nive USENET feed, but if they had to write in script, there might be better stuff to read. *shrug*

      --
      This sig intentionally left justified.
    3. Re:Tools of the trade. by benwaggoner · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I type about ~100 WPM. And I get bad cramps in the hand if I have to write more than about a page at a time - even before I learned to type. The harder I have to press, the worse it is. In high school, my math teacher actually banned me from turning in homework in pencil as it was hard to read since I had to press so lightly. Ballpoint was out for the same reason, so I just did everything with a narrow felt tip, which worked fine. Not being able to erase really upped the challenge!

      Later on, I discovered fountain pens, which need basically no pressure at all. My college physics professors were started when I turned in homework in italic calligraphy. Eventually I got them to let me do everything in Excel.

      Signing all the thank you cards for wedding gifts was about the most physically unpleasant thing I've had to do in ages, and it took about two weeks.

      As dysfunctional as handwriting is for me, my fast typing speed makes IM'ing nearly impossible, since I just can't stand waiting for the other person to type their message back to me. The asynchronous nature of email makes that a lot better.

    4. Re:Tools of the trade. by PhxBlue · · Score: 1

      I can only do about sixty on the keyboard myself. No, it's not a case of being unfamiliar on a computer keyboard. I just like the tactile feedback of my hand on the pencil, pushing down on the paper. It does something for my creativity that I can't always get from writing straight to file. Of course, once I start writing to the PC, I tend to add a lot more "flesh" to whatever I'm working on. :-)

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    5. Re:Tools of the trade. by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1
      Typing, I can almost keep up with my thoughts, and I find that papers, essays, and stories flow much easier from my mind to the page.

      I find that, when writing stories or poems, thoughts are "bursty" enough that writing by hand is no problem, and I rarely want to move more than a line or two around (in the first draft), so arrows and circles do fine. I also find notebook and pencil more portable to environments condusive to writing - parks, bars, coffeehouses, et cetera.

      (But then if I want to share, I have to type it up..I've still got a backlog of years of untyped poetry. OTOH, I started out focusing more on performance than printed form.)

      Essays, I like to compose at the keyboard, moving chunks of text around as I go. (Perhaps influences by years of USENETing?) I'm still a lousy typist, though.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    6. Re:Tools of the trade. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For long bouts of prose I greatly prefer a keyboard - don't know quite how fast I can type, but it's way beyond my writing speed and I reposition a lot of content on the fly. That would be a nightmare with pen and paper.

      On the other hand, in college I never understood those people who could take effective notes on their laptops (I was a liberal arts major, so there wasn't heavy techie penetration). Writing notes in a notebook is far better for me because I take poor notes which are intuitively linked in my mind. I also generally use the closest bit of available paper to write on, so individual pages would often have notes with different orientations relative to the bottom of the page. You wouldn't want to copy them, but for me it was highly intuitive to get from point A to B to C. I don't think I could possibly have used that style on a laptop.

      Oh, and am I alone in despising it when people don't immediately shut off that damned MS Word talking paperclip? When I see him I want to tell my coworkers that they've lost their right to ask me for help.

    7. Re:Tools of the trade. by jack+torrence · · Score: 1

      Jeez! Sounds just like me! But, may I add that there are good and bad brands of 0.5mm leads out there. Pentel is by far and away the best, but here in the Great White North we also can get 'Buffalo' Brand leads (made in Taiwan) - almost as good, but still not having that magical sliding smoothness of Pentel. The worst were some brittle leads from mainland China. You have to hold the pencil entirely vertical just to not snap them off!

    8. Re:Tools of the trade. by Zarn · · Score: 1

      I usually carry a pencil and notebook around for the loose thoughts that enter my head, interesting names, even odd or archaic words, plot threads. But when it's time to seriously write down the story I turn to vim. Big font, colored grey, on a black background xterm.

      I think that any writer of fiction who feels the compulsion to use italics or bold style in his writings isn't trying hard enough. I have no use for a wordprocessor, vim does everything I need it to do.

      Zarn

  21. A refreshing article. by polyp2000 · · Score: 1

    You can tell this person has a penchant for writing. I found this article quite mesmeriseing, In fact I read it several times as his words drifted off the screen with ease.

    I wish we had more stuff like this on Slashdot.

    I choose Vi myself, if its any consolation ;)

    nick ...

    --
    Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
  22. PDA writing... by _LORAX_ · · Score: 1

    It's a simple, unobtrusive interface that allows me to type for hours on end in almost any location using a fold up keyboard. No internet distractions, or complex formating to deal with ( woudn't look right on a desktop anyways ). I can then come back to my PC and do the editing required before printing or emailing the document to others.

    I've seen many people start to do the same thing too, the only ones that have a real problem are the poetry writiers because of the very narrow screens.

    I have also grown quite fond of eBooks on PDA as well. Using auto-scroll to keep my eyes moving I can get quite a bit more read, and there is no problem reading at night.

  23. A Pentel 0.5mm Mechanical Pencil by pleasetryanotherchoi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    with index finger clicker is my weapon of choice, although I use Kwrite (What? Not Emacs/VI? Let the flammage ensue but direct your shrapnel away from the top of my head.) for producing a final draft.

    While words cannot express the beauty of discovering the frequency of Sol-type stars within 100 light-years of Earth, or Tibetan surnames and their construction without visiting a library, computers (and especially the internet) are a godawful distraction to creativity.

    Like now.

    1. Re:A Pentel 0.5mm Mechanical Pencil by Theaetetus · · Score: 1
      While words cannot express the beauty of discovering the frequency of Sol-type stars within 100 light-years of Earth, or Tibetan surnames and their construction without visiting a library, computers (and especially the internet) are a godawful distraction to creativity.

      Gong Sixue leaned back in his captain's chair and rubbed his eyes wearily, muttering to the computer to turn off the display. The projected holograph dissolved as the mist flow to the screen was shut off, revealing the starscape through the window beyond. The bow of the ship dipped away, giving a wide angle view of the gray, lifeless planet floating below.
      "Four hundred and seventy-eight Sol-type stars I've visited now," Sixue sighed. "And not even a single clue as to the location of the ancient home of man, 'Earth'."

      ;)

      I don't see what the problem is...

      -T

  24. Jerry Pournelle's requirement by Spectre · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And Jerry Pournelle successfully campaigned to have Microsoft add an option to Word just for him. Which one?

    [] Blue background, white text

    That option is still there to this day.

    Dang, it must be nice to be able to tell Bill Gates what to do once in a while!

    --
    "Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
    1. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's worthless.

      Now "[X] Blue background, yellow text." ...

      eloj -- still with the "Borland colors"

    2. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by red_dragon · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only reason Pournelle requested white text instead of yellow is because white-on-blue was the default colour scheme for many DOS-based word processors and text editors. He wasn't a programmer, so he probably didn't spend much time using the Borland IDE on DOS. WordPerfect, DOS Edit, and IBM's E and TEDIT come to mind.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
    3. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, two people in my office (me + a secretary) would like to thank Jerry Pournelle for that feature! White text on blue is so much easier on the eyes.

    4. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by Linker3000 · · Score: 4, Funny

      That was only so that MS engineers could mock-up BSODs so they could get the text alignment and wording right ;-)

      --
      AT&ROFLMAO
    5. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by TopShelf · · Score: 1

      *sob*

      That reminds me of the screen setup for the old Atari 400 & 800 computers (I got a 400 for Christmas when I was a wee lad)...

      I've reconfigured my Client Access sessions in that color scheme, and people look at me like I'm nuts!

      --
      Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    6. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by Willard+B.+Trophy · · Score: 1

      Uhoh -- yellow on blue was the default colour scheme of the Amstrad CPC. I know of one hardcore former CPC developer who now works at Redmond. I wonder ... ;-)

    7. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 1

      Is that something different from just picking a background color which is blue, and a text color which is white?

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

    8. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by shish · · Score: 1

      I always wondered what that feature was for... What *is* it for?

      --
      I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
    9. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by Emil+Brink · · Score: 1

      No, since the Jerry-option only changes the view of the document, not the document itself. It's a setting in the program itself, not in the data it processes. If you load the same document in someone else's Word, where the option is turned off (or, indeed, print it to paper) it will not have a blue background. Geddid?

      --
      main(O){10<putchar(4^--O?77-(15&5128 >>4*O):10)&&main(2+O);}
    10. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by ll1234 · · Score: 1

      For the screaming and kicking WordPerfect converts. WP used a blue background/white text scheme.

    11. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 1

      There's nothing wrong with that. It's good to let the user pick his own viewing color options that aren't embedded in the document (remember how HTML browsers were supposed to work?) The only stupid thing about it is that it seems like it only has ONE color scheme option - the color Jerry wanted. And that's pretty stupid.

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

    12. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's what's great about mozilla's userContent.css.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    13. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by Rob+Simpson · · Score: 1

      And First Choice! I used that for years. It had a spreadsheet and database too, IIRC.

    14. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by signingis · · Score: 1

      Here are some instructions. It looks like crap, but whatever floats your boat...

      --

      I prefer a void in conversation to a vacuous one.
    15. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement by Sablepegasus · · Score: 1

      Word Perfect 6.0 for DOS has that ability. In fact, in Text mode, one can change the screen and text display color to whatever one wants.

  25. Simple? by phoneyman · · Score: 1

    Maybe these tools aren't "simple" but back when I did a heck of a lot more writing than I do now (term papers, software documentation, etc) I used Emacs and LaTeX exclusively.

    I found that combination to be the easiest to use.

    When I bought my first computer, I also made the mistake of buying an early version of MS Word (1.4, IIRC); I've hated that product ever since. Every iteration gets more and more "helpful" and less and less useful.

    Pierre

  26. vi is not simple by Junks+Jerzey · · Score: 1

    Okay, maybe the classic version of vi is (which I have written tens of thousands of lines of code with), but not the more recent incarnations like vim. Surem vim doesn't have help balloons and all that, but you'll still spend the next five years figuring out everything there is. If you're the kind of person who loves to fiddle with fonts and colors and settings, then vim is like crack. You'll kill even more time configuring vim than most GUI editors because it's all so byzantine.

    Realistically, if you want straightforward and simple, just use one of the many Notepad-like editors. Notepad is too simplistic, but there are many free, enhanced versions (like EditPad Lite). You still don't have to worry about fonts and help balloons and automatic reformatting, but something like EditPad Lite (or EditPlus) is much less invisible to use than vi.

    1. Re:vi is not simple by AveryT · · Score: 1

      Surem vim doesn't have help balloons and all that, but you'll still spend the next five years figuring out everything there is.

      Ahh, but the beauty is, you don't have to. I use vim 5.8 (console version) and, with the exception of the syntax highlighting, don't regularly use any command that isn't documented on my vi reference mug. I even disable the multiple undo -- a real geek's undo just toggles the last change on and off ;-)

    2. Re:vi is not simple by Junks+Jerzey · · Score: 1

      Ahh, but the beauty is, you don't have to.

      You don't have to with any other text editor either.

    3. Re:vi is not simple by AveryT · · Score: 1

      You don't have to with any other text editor either.

      You've got me there. You don't have to learn any of vim's advanced features if you don't use vim. Thanks for clearing that up.

      My point was that if you appreciate the simplicity and efficiency of vi, you are not forced to contend with the additional complexity of vim if you don't want to.

      Contrary to your subject line, vi is simple, and vim can be just as simple as vi if you simply choose to ignore the fact that it has any additional features.

    4. Re:vi is not simple by ClippyHater · · Score: 1

      You've got me there. You don't have to learn any of vim's advanced features if you don't use vim. Thanks for clearing that up.

      Maybe you missed his point...? He was saying that the point you made also holds for other editors.

      Late in the day, and maybe I'm missing everyone's point.

    5. Re:vi is not simple by Junks+Jerzey · · Score: 1

      You've got me there. You don't have to learn any of vim's advanced features if you don't use vim. Thanks for clearing that up.

      And the original author's point was that he spent too much time fiddling with configurable word processors, therefore he wanted something that was fixed and simple. That doesn't describe vim at all. In fact, configuring vim is a major pain in the ass compared with, say, Microsoft Word.

    6. Re:vi is not simple by AveryT · · Score: 1

      Your original post conceded that plain old vi was simple to configure and use. My point was that vim is not much more complicated (my _vimrc file only contains 12 lines) if you are only using the basic vi feature set. If you are going to take the trouble to learn vi in the first place, having to edit 12-line text file hardly qualifies as a "major pain in the ass".

  27. IBM Selectric by xyote · · Score: 1

    Tom Robbins had problems with a IBM Selectric in Still Life with Woodpecker, so it's possible for a writer to have problems with any word processor no matter how well designed it is.

    1. Re:IBM Selectric by dustmote · · Score: 1

      Well, sure, if you paint it red while tripping on psychedelic mushrooms. What's amazing is that he managed to get words down on paper at all. I always ended up with things like "trashcan trashcan baboon polka" when trying to write things down while tripping. :)

      --


      -1, "1337" speak
  28. Minimalism by dang-a-pin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I write with Ultra Edit, & can vouch for the complete lack of distraction that the minimalist editor provides. Instead of emphasizing your prose with underlining, italics, boldface, etc., you throw your readers against the wall by better word choices, more dynamic phrasing, and edgier dialogue. It's also just plain easier to concentrate, when you're not thinking about how a program must be used. Anything else is for sissies.

  29. You know... by superdan2k · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have a degree in English, with a concentration in Creative Writing. You know what I do? I write first, format later, and you know what? It works! It's called time management.

    Furthermore, it's not tough to select Courier, 10pt., set the margin widths to 1.25" all the way around, and set the material to double-spacing. That's all that's really required.

    --
    blog |
    1. Re:You know... by sasquatch+zeke · · Score: 1

      "...write first, format later" is what came immediately to mind as I read the article. It may be in part due to the fact that my first few word processor experiences were with programs like Wordstar, Appleworks, and WP 5.1, but I have no enthusiasm for auto-reformatting, WYSIWYG, auto-correcting, auto-suggesting, auto-anything design. What I want is what I suspect most people want: Let me get my thoughts out of my head and into an editable, recoverable medium as rapidly as possible.

      Who needs formatting before you have the text? A program that continually shuffles words around on the screen as it auto-formats, pops up little flags to tell me that it doesn't like my grammar or spelling, scrolls at the speed of molasses, and in any other way interrupts my train of thought is more hinderance than help. What is important is being able to get maximum use out of what creative thoughts you have. Spelling can be fixed later. Grammar can be examined later. Deciding how the text fill fit on the page can be dealt with later. (Unless perhaps you're into the sort of poetry whose impact depends on its arrangement on the page.) If you don't get your thoughts down on the page before they're gone, no amount of pop-up dialogs will retrieve them.

      Yes, I know that most such features can be turned off, but why are they on by default? Who prefers such? A good tool does not get in the way of what you are trying to accomplish.

      I still write stuff in vi.

      Zeke

    2. Re:You know... by isaac · · Score: 1
      Furthermore, it's not tough to select Courier, 10pt., set the margin widths to 1.25" all the way around, and set the material to double-spacing. That's all that's really required.

      Microsoft Word requires a hell of a lot more configuration from the default to get to this point. Every time I sit down with a freshly installed copy of Word (after downloading and installing many, many megabytes of service packs and security fixes, I'd add), I have to spend many more minutes turning off "Clippy," autoformat-as-you-type, "personalized" menus, auto-correct, and grammar checking, just to get to a point where Word won't (as often) change my settings, formatting, and (jah forbid) the text I type without me specifically requesting and approving the change.

      I've been using Word for real work since version 4.0 for Mac and the execrable Word 2.0 for Windows, and only the Mac versions -Isaac

      --
      I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
  30. Creative people by j-turkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Creative people seem to be among the most resistant to new technologies and/or meduims brought about by technology. The word processor is just one example...but how long did it take photography to be accepted as a fine art? (I'm sure that there are photographers out there right now that will argue that it still hasn't).

    A large fraction of those same photographers who are shaking their heads right now -- they refuse to accept digital photography as an artistic medium. Furthermore, much of the other digital "art" mediums have yet to be accepted...what about 3D rendering? This is surely an art form, but is not widely accepted. The demo scene is another that is not embraced by the artsy world.

    The point is that the artistic types will tend to cling to their ways...who knows why. But it doesn't seem like, as a group, creative folks tend to enbrace new technology (or in this case a pretty damn old one, like a word processor) I wonder if it's alright to use an electric light Vs. a candle to write?

    --Turkey
    --

    -Turkey

    1. Re:Creative people by rpresser · · Score: 1

      The meat of writing is words, not formatting. Formatting makes it easier for the eye, but the words are the important part.

      Writers are really good at putting words together in pleasant ways. That is why we pay them. We do not pay them to set type. We used to pay typesetters to set type; now we pay Microsoft to write programs that set type. AND IT'S STILL LESS IMPORTANT THAN THE WRITING.

      If a writer tells me that GUI word processors distract him from his writing, I'll listen to him, and applaud his choice of less distracting tools, because I like his writing.

      An electric light does not distract you from writing. Spending an hour setting up a stylesheet does.

    2. Re:Creative people by zonx+lebaam · · Score: 1

      In my experience, the tool really affects the creative output in a hard-to-define way. I have even experimented with this (writing music, not text) by writing different sections of the same piece with pencil, with pen, on different computer programs, etc., in order to capitalize on this effect. Actually I quite enjoy the results. And yes, at some point I wrote some music using vi (although it was a special case). I'm not the only one: at least in my circle the topic of "the tool" seems to come up a lot in discussion.

    3. Re:Creative people by j-turkey · · Score: 1
      An electric light does not distract you from writing. Spending an hour setting up a stylesheet does.

      Hmm...I can't tell you the last time I spent an hour setting up a stylesheet to write a book/essay/thesis/whatever. I don't do that. All it takes is discipline to just write, then format later...or even send to your publisher to format.

      I'm not sure what you took from my comment...are you arguing just for the sake of arguing? All I said was that creative folks, for whatever reason, are slow to accept new technology. Not a commentary on paying Microsoft for a product (where the hell did you get that one?).

      I'm not forcing anything down your throat. Am I?

      --Turkey
      --

      -Turkey

    4. Re:Creative people by jsin · · Score: 1

      "...A large fraction ..."

      ...

      ...I just thought that sounded funny...and I have karma to burn...MUHAHAHA!

    5. Re:Creative people by jinx90277 · · Score: 1
      As a "creative person," I'd like to respond to a few of your points:
      • It is neither fair nor accurate to broadly label all "creative people" as being resistant to technology. For every person who is perfectly happy using "old" means to create art, someone else is intrigued by new technology and starts to create art using those new tools. (There was a recent article in Wired discussing how David Byrne used Microsoft PowerPoint to create visual art, for example.)
      • Further, I don't think that artists' opinions of technology is as black-and-white as you make it sound. From personal experience, If I'm creating a new poem using Word, it pisses me off when it tries to capitalize things that I intend to remain lowercase. (And yes, I know how to turn that off.) But then again, when I'm working on putting together a manuscript and want to provide insight to a publisher on WYSIWYG layout, Word is invaluable.
      • I think there is good reason why certain artists choose to use old, even anachronistic, technology to create art. The process of art is to translate a vision into some tangible/perceptible thing -- technology is simply one of the tools used to make that possible. In some cases, the tool affects what kind of art can be created -- the choice of a brush or a lens, for example. But in many cases, especially writing, the goal of the tool is to be as non-distracting as possible. If I have to think about how to do something with my word processor, I'm not thinking about my poetry. (As a last "point," art requires a unique viewpoint...and some artists I know try to purposefully be as different as possible from the "norm" as part of their character, which would include things like insisting that everything be written in pencil. Still, I know far too many artists who have day jobs in engineering or IT to think that those unique sorts make up the majority of artists.)
      • There will always be arguments over what constitutes "art," and I don't want to get involved by offering my own (arbitrary) definition -- I'm not going to solve any debate here. But I think it's clear that the struggle for acceptance is something that every individual artist goes through, just as much as any particular aesthetic -- computerized animation, interactive art, etc. -- has to work to find validation. I don't think you have said anything new. Digital photography is a poor example of this kind of debate since the issue is how well the technology mirrors current film capability -- not whether or not the contents of digitally-created or digitally-manipulated photos can be art. Those are entirely separate discussions.
      --
      "she says i'm lousy conversation. as if that's supposed to help."
    6. Re:Creative people by fenix+down · · Score: 1

      Artsy people have stuff to do, they don't like things that completely fail to work with regularity.

      Read the Salmon of Doubt (stuff of Douglas Adams' they edited together after he died), it might explain that mindset better. For instance, he has the one article he writes with the little palm thing he bought at the airport. He goes through everything that's good about it, everything that's bad about it, and concludes that it's not better than his laptop and decides never to use it again. Sure, it might be a great piece of technology, and he's fully aware of that, but he needs something to write things on, and the crappy thumb-keyboard isn't it. Even if he can use it in the bath.

      If digital photography or Unreal 2K3 is the best way to get your point across, then you use it, if the fact that you're using digital photography or Unreal 2K3 is your point, then you might as well be stapling elephant turds to a hunk of posterboard.

      In any case, "artistic types" are irrelevant to the whole situation. Artists produce art, artistic types have parties and hand out money to people who are much smarter than them. They go wherever the cool is. That might be Unreal mods at some point, but whether you have rich fanboys to mooch off of has little impact on whether or not your medium has any actual artists working in it.

    7. Re:Creative people by RatBastard · · Score: 1

      The specific issue here is the tools, not the medium. Photography and 3d rendering are media types. The camera, or the rendering program used is the tool. What the author is talking about is the tools used for writing.

      He is disparaging the overcomplexity and obtrusive invasiveness of most word processors. He is arguing not that computer can't be used for writing, but that most word processing programs are unfit for the job.

      And he's right. I stopped using Word for anything other than short .DOC files at work years ago beause it decided to help me when I didn't want it to, turn back on "features" I had repeatedly disabled and committed a multitude of other sins that got in my way. I loathe autocorrect and autospell. I'll worry about the spelling and the grammar when I'm going back and editing what I've written. But when I'm *writing* I want the damned thing to leave me alone and let me get my words recorded.

      To make an analogy to photography, the author is compairing Word (and most other word processor programs) to fully automatic cameras. While they might be usefull for the average snapshot photographer, they are of little use to someone like Ansel Adams, whose artwork demands complete control of the camera and freedom from unanted distractions of the tool trying to "fix" a problem that doesn't exist.

      --
      Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
    8. Re:Creative people by Space+Coyote · · Score: 1
      I'm not forcing anything down your throat. Am I?

      You are implying that a writer not using the latest product from Microsoft (or OpenOffice) is somehow a failing on the part of the writer. Yet what does a fancy word processor offer to help the creative process that vi does not? Obviously not enough to convince the article's author, at any rate. He's obviously tried them. Comparing this phenomenon to the resistance of painters to accept photography as an art form is a false analogy, since the end product is the same whether it was written using MS Word XP or a pencil. Words. With Photography the product was entirely different from a painting. Digital photography is still an immature form compared with traditional film photography, but again, the products are slightly different.

      The overwhelming requirement for many writers seems to be lack of distractions. Imagine having to write on a sheet of paper that was already half full of little drawings and icons and blurbs popping up. It would drive me nuts, I can tell you that. This is probably why the article writer prefers the relatively sparse vi interface to MS Word.

      --
      ___
      Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum.
    9. Re:Creative people by j-turkey · · Score: 1
      In my experience, the tool really affects the creative output in a hard-to-define way

      I absolutely agree with you. My comment, however, was concerning the rate at which new tools are accepted as "OK" by the creative community.

      The music scene is a little different, but there are some parallels. Some folks embraced the early analog synthesizers, some didn't...but 25 years later, the sound is now "classic". Companies are starting to remanufacture those old machines -- because they're finally being loked at for what they are -- a tool (so to speak). (And let's face it, you had to be somewhat of an artist to get the right sound out of any of those old Moog's before you even began to play -- presets...pfft).

      --Turkey
      --

      -Turkey

    10. Re:Creative people by hellfire · · Score: 1

      The point is that the artistic types will tend to cling to their ways...who knows why.

      Easy to explain.

      Artists have a vision of the end result of their art. As another person in this thread mentioned, writers often string words together not because they are grammatically correct, but because, on top of being grammatically correct, also invoke a certain emotion in the reader.

      Writers accept whatever process they take to bring that art to life. Many cinematographers don't like digital photography because to their trained eye something doesn't look right, and it interferes with their vision. Many directors don't like CGI because it just doesn't look right for certain scenes and it, again, just doesn't look right.

      Art is a very emotional experience, and so is the process of creating it. See the movie Pollock to see just how illogical and emotional it can be. If a tool interferes with your vision, you just don't use it.

      That said, most of the software Microsoft creates is for business of some sort or another, or run of the mill home use. Business writing is homogenized and (usually) logically ordered. Writing an article or book is anything but homogenized, unless your last name is Grisham, King, or Steele.

      --

      "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

    11. Re:Creative people by zpok · · Score: 1

      You are totally, utterly, completely wrong in your assessment (I think ;-)

      Most creative people put their "art" before their tools. And as such they use the tools that are most useful to them.

      Exponents of that same artistic community are therefor known to have pushed the envelope to its extreme, making discoveries and more modern tools that fit their need.

      Others only use their own set of familiar tools.

      And even others actually go dig in the past to find more arcane tools for their stuff, making their own paint for instance...

      It's not a matter of being progressive or backward, it's about picking the tools that are most productive for them. And productivity is in this case not measured in the way we look at it (amount of functions, coolness, how fast it gets an average job done) but in how it triggers the processes they need in order to do what they do.

      A lot of people think this is total crap, and then happily go through their own routines failing to see that half of those routines are deviced quite subconsciously to make them better in what they themselves do...

      I'm pretty certain (without having any statistics to back this up) "artists" are no different in accepting technology than any other group of tool-using homo sapiens sapiens...

      It's just that as a group they stand out because they voice strong personal opinions on the subject.

      --
      I think, therefore I am...I think.
    12. Re:Creative people by j-turkey · · Score: 1
      It is neither fair nor accurate to broadly label all "creative people" as being resistant to technology. For every person who is perfectly happy using "old" means to create art, someone else is intrigued by new technology and starts to create art using those new tools. (There was a recent article in Wired discussing how David Byrne used Microsoft PowerPoint to create visual art, for example.)

      Read the post...I didn't broadly label anyone. I believe that I said something like "a large fraction of creative people"...and in my experience, it's true (well, on a subjective level). Like you said -- it's an old debate. If it wasn't true, photography would have been widely accepted as a fine art 50 years earlier!

      I see your point about it not coming down to what is art and what isn't -- but I think it plays a role in this case. I mean -- alot of these "I use a pencil or nothing" folks just seem stubborn. They may have their reasons, but I think that a large part of these people are just jumping on the bandwagon. I'm feeling cynical enough today to say that alot of these people could do just fine with a word procesor, but since some other well-established writers damned it, they'll look a little more professional to just nod their head.

      "My bike is made out of lead, and I like it!"

      --Turkey
      --

      -Turkey

    13. Re:Creative people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you might as well be stapling elephant turds to a hunk of posterboard.

      Excuse me, I think you may be infringing my patents and copyright!

      Oh wait, you said stapling.

      Nevermind.

    14. Re:Creative people by pmz · · Score: 1

      how long did it take photography to be accepted as a fine art?

      It's a technical art...like properly tuning an instrument (scientific or musical).

      It's a fine art usually in the context of other media, such as a collage (I remember seeing a completely amazing photographic collage that spanned at least 12 feet). Perhaps the amount of labor involved promotes it a bit.

    15. Re:Creative people by j-turkey · · Score: 1
      To make an analogy to photography, the author is compairing Word (and most other word processor programs) to fully automatic cameras. While they might be usefull for the average snapshot photographer, they are of little use to someone like Ansel Adams, whose artwork demands complete control of the camera and freedom from unanted distractions of the tool trying to "fix" a problem that doesn't exist.

      An excellent analogy. I see your point.

      --Turkey
      --

      -Turkey

    16. Re:Creative people by Saanvik · · Score: 1

      While what you say may be true, it's not in this case. Charlie Dickinson used many word processing tools and decided that they didn't work well for him not because he didn't want to embrace the technology, but because it distracted him from writing.

      It doesn't matter what tool you use to write with whether it's a pencil, typewriter, vi, emacs, W*rd, or Framemaker, the important thing is that writing has to be the focus. That's what the essay is about.

      To explain why, let me show you what often happens to writers when they are using a word processor.

      type, type, type ....
      madly type because of good idea
      type, type,
      type

      type


      scratch head,

      look out window at plane that just flew by,

      scratch itchy bits,

      change the radio station,

      run a spell check,

      look at broken fingernail,
      pick at broken fingernail,

      realize that the structure of the previous section would be easier to find later if the title was boldfaced,

      decide a different font plus bold would be even better,

      change the font in the body style to reflect new style choices,

      panic when font change goes wrong,

      flail about trying to fix it,

      read help on how to fix it,

      call help desk and chat with tech support because it's nice to talk with someone else when you're trying to avoid your work,

      notice something else you can do from text in the help and add that formatting to your document,
      etc.,

      look at clock three hours later and realize you've only written 500 words

      panic and fill article with drivel to get it done by the deadline

      See, the problem for writers, and for many other professions, including programmers, is that we have to work inside our heads and we need to focus on our thoughts. Distractions are our enemy, it keeps us from inspiration.

      Is using vi the best choice? Not for most people, but if using vi allows you to focus on the writing and let the production people focus on the formatting, then that's the way to write.

      For Charlie Dickinson, vi lets him do that.

    17. Re:Creative people by zonx+lebaam · · Score: 1
      OK. Point taken. Another point to consider - while a new medium (of the artifact - not of the artistic process) requires new tools, or new use of tools, old media may or may not have new tools applied to them. This point bears on the photography metaphor vs. the vi issue.

      The creative process is influenced by the choice of tool whether new or old, and regardless of whether the media is new or old. On the one hand, a 'new tool' may open possibilities, or even be creative simply in the act of its use (a possible example of people who would appreciate this would be the junk-art crowd (for both artefact and process)). On the other hand, an 'old tool', regardless of novelty/modernity has generally been mastered by someone competent and becomes transparent in its use. And this transparency bears strongly on the issue. Despite its hard-to-memorize-initially feature set, and its modal nature, an experienced vi user does not have to think to use it. The text just flows out and automatically follows the mind's eye. To some extent the gui word processors are like this too, as the use of mouse is quite natural to most these days. However, the various "features" criticized throughout this discussion are things that do not become naturalized no matter how acclimated one is to those programs; so this is a real reason that one might not decide to adopt one of these programs into one of one's old tools, whereas one might with vi. Which is probably the real reason some older mouse-driven programs are being touted elsewhere in this discussion as well - for those programs the tools are the mouse and cursor, not a feature set of countless checkboxes and surface options.

    18. Re:Creative people by ScottSpeaks! · · Score: 1
      how long did it take photography to be accepted as a fine art?

      Not that long, actually. "Creative" types were among its early promoters, as well. Meanwhile, the ability of photography to "replace" the painter in producing realistic images many sent fine artists scurrying off into abstraction.

    19. Re:Creative people by j-turkey · · Score: 1
      It's a technical art...like properly tuning an instrument (scientific or musical).

      My point exactly...this is the historical resistance to technology that I was speaking of.

      To get t oyour point, this is an old argument...and I'm not going all that far into -- it's a huge can of worms. (However, I can infer from your post that you're probably not a photographer). Fortunately, I belive that the argument is mostlymoot, since most educational institutions now recgonize photography as a fine art.

      --Turkey
      --

      -Turkey

    20. Re:Creative people by j-turkey · · Score: 1
      See, the problem for writers, and for many other professions, including programmers, is that we have to work inside our heads and we need to focus on our thoughts. Distractions are our enemy, it keeps us from inspiration.

      Your example shows exactly what I mean. It's not a fault of the tool that the operator can't exhibit enough discipline to properly use it. Maybe you've got a point -- but in this case, your example isn't very good. I mean, even if writer uses a pencil and paper, he can still shove the pencil up his ass and chew on the paper all day while pondering his navel instead of doing the work in front of them. One could even misuse their tool (the computer) to reply to Slashdot posts all day instead of getting their job done.

      --Turkey
      --

      -Turkey

    21. Re:Creative people by Metropolitan · · Score: 1

      This may be somewhere in the plethora of replies, but here goes:

      It's not about the fear of technology, or the lack of desire to learn new tools, but the level of impediment to the creative process. Sometimes the muse can be a reluctant partner, and wading through menu after menu turning options off and on, or looking for a way to get that damnable macro you invoked out of your document, can kill whatever idea inspired you to sit down in the first place.

      Artists aren't Luddites, in general. They just look at tools more like tools, not an end to themselves. If every time I wanted to wash dishes I had to reset the vacuum cleaner, clean out the fridge, program the VCR, and change the seven lightbulbs in the hallway not very many dishes would be washed.

      Sort of like needing a spoon, and your Swiss Army Knife unfolds everything at once.

      I've used various text editors to write prose, along with Word and StarOffice, and prefer the simplicity of the basic editors. Formatting, if it needs to happen at all, can come after the words are all there.

      -met.

    22. Re:Creative people by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1

      For digital cameras, it's not being backward. At the moment, they are fine for snapping, but to get something of the quality to produce artisitic photography, you need to spend over 1500 in the UK.

    23. Re:Creative people by shirai · · Score: 1

      I am extremely technical and creative. I am what one might call a duallist in many factors of my life. I like programming and creative (script) writing. I love cars, computers, programming. I develop, I'm a graphic designer, I'm a CEO and I am on my way to being a movie director. Techies might call me artistic and artists might call me techie. I completely agree with this fellow.

      The problem and strength with the word processor is that it supports a specific environment and a certain flow that targets office style writing. It is the right tool for this job.

      In fact, I do all my office writing in Word and I love it. Proposals, letters, technical drafts (though I hate having to always turn spell-checking off for code), and manuals.

      But somehow I hate it for creative writing. It just doesn't support the flow of it. For one, I would love to be able to use a simple blank screen with green text on a black background. That gets me in the mood more (I know they're out there). Somehow, the window with all its gadgetry makes me feel like office/technical work, not creative flow.

      I believe colors schemes can effect creativity. Not bright colors but maybe something more muted. Also, adding certain themes to the look like clean textures (that you can read text on easily) in the background. This may sound funny and somewhat pop-ish but think about how many writers will listen to music while writing. When looking at some creatively designed web pages with text(creatively speaking) will put me more in the mood of that writing. Especially some of the darker layouts.

      Let's say your writing about darkness and death and the background is dark and muddy and maybe there is some hint of fire or in it. Would this maybe help you get in the mood? It would me.

      Or how about white text on a sky like texture. Would this change your creativity? It would me again. I think if you thought about this, it would affect you too. Well, maybe not everyone but I think this has enough of an effect that it would be, at the least, a useful experiment.

      --
      Sunny

      Be my Friend

    24. Re:Creative people by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 1

      If you read the article, you see that the author is NOT complaining because the tech is new. It's because it isn't appropriate to the task at hand and there is no reason to switch OTHER than it's newness. It's not like an artist refusing to acknowlege that 3d rendering is an art form. It's like an artist refusing to acknowlege that it makes sense to use 3d rendering to paint a person's portrait. It's inappropriate to the task at hand and the artist shouldn't be forced to use it just because it's new.

      For sumbitting manuscripts to a publisher, anything more than a text editor is totally inappropriate (you do realize that it's the PUBLISHER that picks the fonts, headings, paragraph formattings, and so on, NOT the author, right? The stream of words is *all* the author decides.)

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

    25. Re:Creative people by Saanvik · · Score: 1

      Your initial thesis was, to quote:

      Creative people seem to be among the most resistant to new technologies and/or meduims brought about by technology.

      My point, which I believe my example illustrates, is that he's not resisting new technologies, he's choosing to limit his distractions and, by doing so, increase his production.

      I totally agree that discipline can overcome the temptation, but the author of the essay has decided that he'd rather remove the temptation then try to deal with the distraction.

    26. Re:Creative people by wellwatch · · Score: 1

      Ever read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintinence"? Says the exact same thing to me.

      --
      "He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction here and merely hoped.
    27. Re:Creative people by dvdeug · · Score: 1

      The point is that the artistic types will tend to cling to their ways...who knows why. But it doesn't seem like, as a group, creative folks tend to enbrace new technology (or in this case a pretty damn old one, like a word processor) I wonder if it's alright to use an electric light Vs. a candle to write?

      Did you read the same article I did? I've been using computers since they took my pacifier away. I've got a B.S. in mathematics. And for a lot of the same reasons, I'd rather write on paper then try and write almost anything on a computer. The computer's great for flamewars, but it doesn't inspire concentration.

    28. Re:Creative people by cerebralpc · · Score: 1

      Theres a reason creative people don't like change. Its because change requires work - if spend time and energy updating your techonolgy your not actaully creating anything. Creative people understand that updating your technology may increase efficency - but more often than not it doens't. Find something that works - and stick with it!

    29. Re:Creative people by cuiousyellow · · Score: 1

      Photography is line, form, composition, and color under the control of an individual - how is this not a fine art again?

    30. Re:Creative people by Clansman · · Score: 1

      Now you're just confusing things. The author is talking about the effect that modern WP system have in interfering with the creative process of pgetting words in your head onto paper (in the end).

      Candles vs lightbulbs would have no effect therefore that is a spurious comparison.

  31. Bah, computers? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can imagine people appreciate a tool like vi, or notepad for that matter, that has few features and is more or less keyboard-driven. Myself, I use editplus to bang out lots of text for reports, memos and the like... which means I do not have to worry about formatting and such. When I am reaonably happy with the text, I paste it into Word and apply a template and formatting.

    But for the more creative writing I still prefer a notepad and pencil for the first draft. I can easily annotate, make drawings, cross out stuff and then decide I want to keep that text after all... and there's just no computer tool that is as easy to use. I find that both the features and the inherent limitations get in the way of creativity.
    The drawback of course is that I have to type it ito the computer anyway, at some point.

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  32. The steadfasts by CAIMLAS · · Score: 0

    Despite being on my computer for 4+ hours a day, I find that I rely on the old steadfasts for my writing; that is, when I want to compile some serious literature, I go out back and piss on the driveway.

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    1. Re:The steadfasts by Omicron32 · · Score: 1

      Bastard, I had a mouthful of tea just spilled on my keyboard.

      That's going to be an arse to clean up.

      Does it come across that I'm British or not, btw? :P

  33. Not *too* surprising... by Xentax · · Score: 1

    I think most computer users went through, or will go through, a similar journey when they first start using a computer where they used to use paper and a pencil, pen, or typewriter.

    The key as the author points out is to totally forget about presentation when you're *trying* to focus on content. That's why vi is better than Word when you're just trying to get ideas out and organized, why many of us prefer Notepad to FrontPage, etc.

    It's similar to why teachers insist on writing drafts for essays -- get it OUT first, then get it organized, clean, etc. Similarly, get the content out first, THEN use a tool like Word to get it organized and presentable.

    Tools like Word won't go away -- there will always be a need for ways to make documents that combine, organize, and display content. But I'm not sure even Microsoft claims it's necessarily the right choice for initially capturing creative content.

    Having said that, it'd be nice if modern, abounding-with-features tools like Wordhad a ... "lite" mode or something. Sure, you can do it yourself by turning off spell/grammar checking, etc., but it'd be nice if a single, built-in action could do it all for you...

    Xentax

    --
    You shouldn't verb words.
    1. Re:Not *too* surprising... by rpresser · · Score: 1

      but it'd be nice if a single, built-in action could do it all for you... It can. Set up two users on your Windows box. With the first one, turn off everything you don't want. Leave the second alone.

    2. Re:Not *too* surprising... by Xentax · · Score: 1

      That might work in a non-domain environment, but there are risks and hassles associated with trying to use that approach in an environment where access permissions are tied to a domain user account.

      Xentax

      --
      You shouldn't verb words.
  34. Re:vi is but... another WordStar-like. by netringer · · Score: 2, Informative
    Having started with Wordstar under CP/M on an Apple ][+ in ~1981 or 82, I found Joe to be just what I was looking for.
    You can still get VDE, which is a blazingly fast WordStar-like DOS editor written in assembler. AFAIK, because it loads the entire file into a page of memory it still has a 64K file size limitation, but it has a built-in ability to split and reassemble to and from larger files.

    It works great on an 8086 class PC. There's even a Palm version.

    --
    Ever dream you could fly? Get up from the Flight Sim. I Fly
  35. Metapad by nucal · · Score: 2, Informative

    Metapad is an excellent, free, plain text editor for Windows that can seamlessly replace Notepad. Handy for editing html source code ...

    1. Re:Metapad by rpresser · · Score: 1

      You know what's really annoying, though? Windows 2000 thinks that NOTEPAD.EXE is soooo important, that if you try to delete it or overwrite it, Windows File Protection restores it for you automatically!

    2. Re:Metapad by nucal · · Score: 1
      There's a workaround for this from the FAQ that I've used:

      [17] - Windows 2000

      Q: How do I replace notepad under Windows 2000?

      A: Go to the folder C:\WinNT\System32\DllCache and erase or rename notepad.exe. Now you can erase or rename notepad.exe in the default locations (C:\WinNT & C:\WinNT\System32). Simply cancel any warnings that pop up.

      Some people will have to locate the file in the i386 folder that might be on your system. Try doing a search for Notepad.* in your windows folder (this will also locate Notepad.ex_ that might also need to be renamed).

      Note: This folder may be called C:\Windows\System32\DllCache or something else depending on where you installed Windows 2000. Also note that this folder is probably hidden so to open it you can paste the above path into the Run dialog (click Start | Run) or in any Explorer Address bar. Typing in %SystemRoot%\System32\DllCache should locate the folder but if not then check HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon for a value named SFCDllCacheDir (which doesn't exist by default).

    3. Re:Metapad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is important if you're a newbie user who expects the thing to be there when you need it. Since you're so 1337 so as not to bother with petty things like those, you could have taken some time to use Google or some other means to arrive at RTFM nirvana and learn how to get around Windows file protection, which can be circumvented just fine if you know how - i.e., if you RTFM. RTFM.

      Now, do you feel stupid? I thought so. So next time you feel the urge to post about some lame "M$ Windoze" feature that clashes with your lifestyle, I suggest you think twice and RTFM beforehand. You'll save yourself some embarrasement, which is always sooooo good.

  36. Work Method by SpaceRook · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Once, while "writing" a software manual, I commented that I'd spent far more time formatting than actually writing. That comment went unanswered. I had a sure sense I needed to make an adjustment to new priorities.

    I'd recommend writing the raw text first and then formatting later. I've written several lengthy user manuals. The first thing I write is a table of contents. This can be done in a program as simple as NotePad (although I like EditPlus).

    Then, fill out each section. Write the content. Trying to format on the fly with something like MSWord is a major pain in the ass (don't even get me STARTED on what a nightmare subdocuments can be). Plus, you end up wasting a lot of time.

  37. I like technology by mrandre · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I must confess to enjoying the feel of fresh pen on paper. And I have printed countless copies of nearly identical sections of writing, just so that my pen can run across the paper. Of course, when visceral pleasure runs out, practicality must take over, and it's easier to manage a large digital collection of scraps than a large pile of scrap paper. And so I have turned to DevonThink, a mac-only program that I am thrilled with. It makes it terrifically simple to edit many little scraps, and organize them into useful groupings. I will always relish the pen, but when work needs done, DevonThink does the trick.

    --
    "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to do it by not dying." -Woody Allen
  38. Amen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    My 70yo dad loves it and so do i, best text editor on a windows platform ever (and it runs in WINE too :)
    www.textpad.com

  39. Artistic vs. Technical people by gpinzone · · Score: 1

    Artistic folk don't like to change their ways too often. Familiarity helps them create. Many writers/artists force themselves into a daily ritual that they adhere to rigorously. They must begin their day at a certain time at a certain location with the same damn fern and mechanical pencil they used in college. It's purely psychological.

    Technically inclined people are always looking for better ways to get something done. That isn't to say tech people can't get set in their ways. (People are still using their Amiga?)

  40. vi is for wussies. I use ed by coult · · Score: 2, Funny

    for all my novels. Sometimes I even write in rot13 code just for fun.

    --

    All is Number -Pythagoras.

  41. Pen first, wp later by thelexx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A friend was once writing a fairly lengthy document with pen and paper while sitting on my couch during one of his stays in town. He had brought his laptop with him, so I asked why he wasn't using it. He explained that it was too easy to spend a lot of time editing and second-guessing instead of writing. So he did his initial drafts and main revisions on paper first, then put it into a wp for final tweaking and output.

    --
    "Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
    1. Re:Pen first, wp later by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 1

      You know, that sounds like a really good idea. Does anyone know how I would disable the backspace key in Emacs?

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

    2. Re:Pen first, wp later by eddie+can+read · · Score: 1

      I'm the opposite: often I have so much to say, I find the pen really slows me down. I need a keyboard.

      Of course I don't have a lot to say on this occasion, which is why I wrote this on paper and posted it using Pigeon IP.

  42. I still remember... by tekiegreg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The last time I stepped into my mom's office (she's a lawyer btw) and still found people there using Wordperfect 5.1/DOS. Whatever works for your purpose, as my mom tells me "It does legal briefs better than anything else that I know how to use, so why change?" Why should authors use the latest version of MS Word or Vi, or Emacs or anything?

    Once people have found a comfortable niche in technology, why change until you have better needs?

    --
    ...in bed
    1. Re:I still remember... by lamont116 · · Score: 1
      I write legal briefs using vim and LaTeX. These tools actually provide a significant advantage over word processors, since appellate courts have strict formatting rules, and will send your brief back if you don't follow the rules (not a minor concern, since you paid a printer real money to copy and bind at least a dozen copies and ship them to the court, and now will have to duplicate that expense after you fix the problem).

      With LaTeX, I created a documentclass for each court once, and just plug in the text for each new brief. Since the class requires that the mandatory sections exist (e.g., Opinion Below, Jurisdiction, Issues Presented, Summary of Argument, etc.), I can't make bonehead mistakes that will get my brief rejected, and it also assures that the font sizes, margins and linespacing are correct. My appellate printer tells me that the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit bounces nearly a quarter of the briefs he reproduces, but I've never had one sent back.

      Using a plaintext format also facilitates the use of grep and friends to find material from old briefs quickly.

    2. Re:I still remember... by jak163 · · Score: 1
      I have liked wp5.1 the best of the word processors I used. It was more of a typewriter than a desktop publisher, in the sense that it positioned things according to character space and line space rather than inches. Since I was taught to type in a typing class this made intuitive sense to me. Word has always seemed to place things without my consent or the complete control of true desktop publishing software (although it's gotten better in terms of control). Word had two critical advantages, however. It displayed proportional fonts correctly and it allowed you to edit the footnotes all together instead of just one at a time.

      I think though that most writers just use the latest word processors. The author of the article and the other anecdotes cited are not typical examples. They are in the minority (although perhaps a somewhat substantial one). What evidence do I have? I am a graduate student and the faculty just use the word processors IT installs. And I've worked at several magazines including Foreign Affairs and observed writers using the latest software. To the extent they use something older, I don't think it's due to any great love so much as it's the product of not having upgraded their computer. When they upgrade they just use whatever is preinstalled.

    3. Re:I still remember... by JoeCommodore · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I know of a couple writers who still used their Commodore 64s (lots of chapter files I bet). Last one I saw at a vinage computer festival was looking for a replacement to her worn out daisywheel printer, I'm sure she located one and is happily typing away again.

      --
      "Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
    4. Re:I still remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What an opportunity for Corel to gain brownie points with the FLOSS community and the legal profession! - release the WordPerfect 5.1 source code under some Open Source license to the FreeDOS community. In effect forking it, but I doubt that the MS-DOS/Wordperfect people are going to complain any!

  43. XEmacs ... by Chromodromic · · Score: 1

    Years of developing software brought me to XEmacs, which is just a subtle variant from FSF's/Richard Stallman's GNU Emacs. Functionally they're, for most practical purposes, identical. Like Emacs, XEmacs has got a learning curve like an Olympic ski jump and it takes a good long while (months) before you're very productive with it. But I can do just about everything with it that I do on a computer: email, programming, Usenet, personal information management (including scheduling and a contact database), screenplay formatting, XML, even ASCII drawing with Emacs' picture-mode.

    In short, it's legendary, and probably most everyone here has heard of it. But for those who haven't, and who have a penchant for twiddling and fiddling with software that has about ten thousand options and endless opportunities for customization (gotta learn elisp, a lisp variant, to do it), then I highly, highly recommend XEmacs or, if you want to be a free software purist, go with GNU Emacs, but you'll have to download the source for the moment because last I checked the GNU ftp servers were still recovering from an exploit and trying to gather checksums for potentially compromised software. Yikes!

    As far as my writing habits go, it's been enormously convenient for me to apply the quick navigational keystrokes I've learned for Emacs to my writing projects. Everything just becomes so much faster and intuitive. And doing most everything from one customizable editor allows me to create an environment that I understand from my own personal viewpoint without having to learn a slew of special features and keystrokes from other software packages.

    Emacs isn't for everyone, I will say that. And since learning many software packages for special purposes -- one for HTML editing, one for XML (like XMLSpy), one for screenplay formatting (like Movie Magic Screenwriter) -- isn't exactly a trial given that it seems like most people's brains seem to adjust to whatever "mode" of work they're currently engaged in, many will choose that route. But again, if you feel so inclined, give Emacs a try, you might grow to love it. But be prepared to give it time.

    Oh, and there's always Vim. It's an excellent, ultra-powerful editor that's basically for people that wished they could grok Emacs but, for some sad reason, simply can't.

    --
    Chr0m0Dr0m!C
    1. Re:XEmacs ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use GNU Emacs for all my writing and I agree with you. The time I invested in learning Emacs has paid back many times over. The same keystrokes work. Since I can run Emacs on all the OSes I have to use, I am at home everywhere.

      It's not just for writing code. When I have to do some creative writing in English, Emacs is my preferred tool.

      Expert Vi users will probably find that Vi works the same way for them too.

      It's true that "text editors" are better than "word processors" when you need to write.

  44. I can feel you by dnoyeb · · Score: 1

    I do automotive systems engineering. So I have to analyze all the systems of a particular vehicle. Eventually I will present modified improved versions in schematic form.

    I find it much more helpful to initially draw schematics by hand. Freehand, not drafting style. This helps me to cache the systems implementations in my head. While drawing them in TurboCAD or Visio is pretty, it also distracts from the details. I have to think about the Tool to some degree. Also, I have to sit virtually shiftless for hours while I draw them.

    Hand and paper I find is much more relaxing and beneficial to the overall objective of understanding what I am doing (and not zoning out into autopilot.)

    1. Re:I can feel you by JLyle · · Score: 1
      "I can feel you"
      That subject line alone is surely worth a few "+1, Funny" mod points.
  45. A whole book in vi? Can you say . . . by lithandie · · Score: 1

    masochist? I new that you could . . .

  46. Vi, vim, editors for the 21st century? by UninvitedCompany · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I learned vi back in the 1970s and have returned to it after some years of using other word processors. In the early days, we used troff(1) to format the output; vi and troff together had a feature set exceeding that of most word processors up until recently.

    The article above surprises me, mainly because vi is so difficult to learn. Having once learned it, it's not a half bad editor, but there are better ones that are easier to learn. After all, vi was designed to take advantage of the (then) increasingly ubiquitous terminals with addressable cursors, connected at serial rates between 600 and 9600 bps. Most had only the keys found on a typewriter, with no function keys, arrow keys, or numeric keypad, and certainly no mouse. That made the keyboard-only, modal interface necessary.

    With today's PCs, there are so many better choices out there, that it's surprising that vi retains any following at all. But what can I say, I still use it myself.

    1. Re:Vi, vim, editors for the 21st century? by kmo · · Score: 1

      Most had only the keys found on a typewriter, with no function keys, arrow keys, or numeric keypad, and certainly no mouse. That made the keyboard-only, modal interface necessary.

      To a touch typist, the modal interface is desirable. In a modal editor, you get to use the most convenient keys to both input text and manipulate it. You just need to have enough short term memory to remember what mode you are in, i.e. what you were doing 2 seconds ago. For example, you can use 'w' to move forward a word rather than take your hands off the home row and type 'ctrl right arrow'.

      Modeless text editors are ideal for casual users that don't want or need to remember editing commands, but if you are editing text documents or code regularly, vim is ideal.*

      * ignores issue that vim is not a file browser, usenet news reader, mail program, web browser, or any of the other things that emacs can claim. I'm talking about an ideal text editor.

    2. Re:Vi, vim, editors for the 21st century? by kimota · · Score: 1
      How is it that there's been this much of a thread without any Mac OS fan plugging the wonderful BBEdit text editor?

      It really and truly doesn't suck (note company slogan if you go to the site), and it's a mite bit more intuitive than vi.

      (That said, once someone explained that vi was intended to be that way (rather than the result of some hostile foreign nation or malicious artificial intelligence), it actually started to make sense to me and became usable.)

      --Kimota!

      --
      Who moderates the meta-moderators?
    3. Re:Vi, vim, editors for the 21st century? by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 1

      The fact that vi works on just the typewriter keys (plus escape and control) IS why it's such a fast editor. No, really. Your hands don't leave the "typing zone" to go hit the arrow keys or any other such distractions. So your right hand never "loses" the home row. If you use a mouse or cursor keys, you have to look at your hands to reposition between the "typing context" and the "arrowing context". Such that in terms of how distracting it is, that sort of pseudo context-switch is actually more distracting than the real context switch of insert vs command mode in vi. Also, using the typewriter keys for the commands is much faster than the special keys, because you *already* know where the 'x' key is, and years of touch-typing keeps retraining you on where 'x' is, but the 'del' key is on different places on different keyboards. While removing a line with "dd" may seem more confusing than triple-click and hit 'del', "dd" is faster to type. Vi is very slow to learn, but VERY FAST to use once you learn it. Thats why people who got over the learning hurdle swear by it, while people who haven't swear AT it.

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

  47. This article is too fucking long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't be fucking bothered to read all that. This story sucks.

    1. Re:This article is too fucking long by generationxyu · · Score: 1
      Tip of the Day:

      The "Reply to this" link doesn't solve this problem nearly as well as the box with the "X" in it in the top-right corner of the Internet Explorer window.

      No one forced you to read it.

      --
      I mod down pyramid schemes in sigs.
  48. Why are most writers luddites? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I'm a writer. I'm published. I've gotten good reviews. But here's the thing:

    I can't write freehand. I can't think at the paltry speed of a pencil or obsolecent ink pen. My ideas move too fast for that, and if I have to wait for my hand to catch up, they're gone.

    To imagine that a computer would sap the creative process is incredible to me. How could speed and ease of revision sap the speed of your mind? But no, not to the average writer. If they're not scratching it in a journal, or onto a dirty napkin, the idea lacks pathos and originality.

    The day when someone comes up with a method that allows me to move beyond the speed of my fingers or my voice, something that lets me chain my imagination to a digital muse, to move my thoughts straight to the page with no cluttered interface, then I'll be happy.

    And all over the world, pretentious english majors will be whining about how that removes the essential purity of whatever level of technology they've managed to be able to accept. The greek epic poets probably screamed bloody murder when their contemporaries started writing things down to begin with.

    God! I'm so tired of it! I don't care what you use to write! Just please! please! PLEASE! STOP TELLING ME ABOUT IT! I don't care! There's nothing holy about your grubby paper notebook, there's nothing pure about your ancient typewriter, and there is nothing worthy about your ancient appleII except the fact that you're too stupid to use anything NEWER!

    Just my (unfortunately well researched) opinion.

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    1. Re:Why are most writers luddites? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop whining.

    2. Re:Why are most writers luddites? by GeoGreg · · Score: 1

      I have always worked under the assumption that the best tool for the job is the tool that works best for you, whether you are a carpenter, a computer programmer, or a novelist. You don't like pen and paper; perhaps someone else finds that using pen and paper forces a certain amount of reflection while writing. I don't think the author here was claiming that his work was more pure because he used an Apple IIe or vi, but rather that he found the doo-dads of modern word processing to be a distraction. Perhaps some writers will find his article to be helpful; perhaps some won't. So why do you call people who don't write and think like you do stupid? I have seen many students at the tech school where I'm a graduate student laugh derisively at anyone who is not an engineer; it's dismaying to see similar attitudes in the creative community.

    3. Re:Why are most writers luddites? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      In both cases, introspectively speaking here, it's a defense mechanisim from those widely thought stupid by their peers. Is it a wonder that most engineers look on all other people as lesser, considering how all other people look on them?

      Turn that around to my own case: Do you know how much crap I've taken over the years from people who persist in regarding writing as mystical, unknowable, and snub everyone who doesn't toe to their idea of literary correctness? I made a more sweeping statement than I think was warranted, but the central fact of anti-technological dogma holds true for a vast number of members of the "Creative" community. I have no patience for people who hold to one method of doing anything, especially when it holds all the way down to a particular version of a particular piece of software, or a particular pen.

      As for tools, I agree, but not completely. If the best tool for the job is a nail gun, I can accept a hammer, but not a rock with one flat side, unless there is absolutely no other choice. I can tell you flat out that if you submit a handwritten manuscript to a publisher, they will send it back INSTANTLY, unread. Writing is no longer a pen and paper world, unless you are so famous that you could sell a million copies of a book with blank pages.

      As far as the attitudes go...I double majored in Philosophy and English...Graduated...Then went back and got my Masters in Comp Sci. Trust me; the english/philosophy grad students sneer just as hard at everyone who's not in their group.

      I don't think everyone who doesn't write or think like me is stupid, but I think that people who utterly refuse to adapt are either stupid, or so totally arrogant that there is no real difference. No, I take that back. I don't care what they do; I don't push my way into anyone's life. But if they have the NERVE to tell me that the way I'M doing it is wrong while they are living in their stone age dreamworld...THAT makes me insane. And I get that crap all the time, usually from someone who will then have the audactiy to ask me to fix his eighteen year old computer.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  49. Will the real writer please stand up? by SheldonYoung · · Score: 1

    You would think Charles Dickens could have come up with a less obvious pseudonym when submitting the article.

  50. Howard Waldrop's Word Processor of Choice by Nova+Express · · Score: 1

    Howard is the only science fiction writer I know who doesn't even own a computer. (I think even Gene Wolfe finally bought one.) He uses a pencil. As Howard is wont to say, "Whenever my word processor crashes, I just sharpen it up again!"

    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

    1. Re:Howard Waldrop's Word Processor of Choice by cei · · Score: 1

      Harlan Ellison doesn't own a computer either, I believe. He still writes all his stuff on an Underwood typewriter last I heard.

      --
      This sig intentionally left justified.
    2. Re:Howard Waldrop's Word Processor of Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, he must be so enlightened. I bet he doesn't own a telephone or mailbox either.

    3. Re:Howard Waldrop's Word Processor of Choice by talis9 · · Score: 1

      As it happens, no he doesn't. Or to be more accurate, he didn't in '98. He may do now, but I wouldn't be surprised if he still didn't. He's quite happy not being within easy contact and spending most of his time fishing. More power to him, I say.

  51. Re:Umm... by pleasetryanotherchoi · · Score: 1

    Son, put down the game pad already and go git yerself sum schoolin afore itz two late.

  52. Real authors by Matey-O · · Score: 1

    write direct to .eps

    --
    "Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
  53. completely in agreement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    as a burgeoning writer myself, i find no other writing tool as functional as vi (well, vim, in my case). it's fast, it's simple, and as mr dickinson reports, it removes all the esoterica from modern desktop publishing and leaves you peacefully with the transference of ideas from brain to keyboard.

    word processors are for resumes.

    1. Re:completely in agreement by O2dude · · Score: 1

      Actually in some of the places where I used to work, you would not get a job interview if you submitted a 'formatted' CV.

      --
      - It took western civilisation 2000 years to ensure popular literacy, and now we work with icon driven GUI's. Go figure.
  54. Improper use of "office productivity" tools by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You weren't intended to "format" your writing at the same time as you wrote it, at least for a large part. Format things -after- you're done writing, if you find you tinker too much with formatting to get it "just right".

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    1. Re:Improper use of "office productivity" tools by Dirtside · · Score: 1

      Intended? By who? Is there some authority which dictates how I'm allowed to go about writing? (And if there is such an authority, what makes you think I give a rat's ass what they think?)

      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    2. Re:Improper use of "office productivity" tools by SEE · · Score: 1

      Because writers who don't follow the rules are going to be taken to Gitmo.

  55. joe by mattdm · · Score: 1

    Anyone want to add color syntax highlighting to Joe? The author made a comment on a newsgroup or list about doing exactly that -- something like 8 years ago. I really like this editor, but the lack of color is finally driving me away. I've got a list of half-done projects three pages long, so I'm not going to add this to that, but if anyone implements this in Joe, I'll buy you a beer. Or non-alcoholic beverage of your choice.

    1. Re:Joe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The best thing is that it doesn't need GRAPHICS to write TEXT...

  56. WordPerfect...5.1 by ZephyrQ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I used to be rather prolific...enjoyed writing and all that. Even when I had to write grant requests and such...

    Then WordPerfect went to 6.0. I configured it to look a *lot* like 5.1 -- still lotsa joy.

    Then MSWord became the defacto format...which is when I started looking at other OSes because, well, I *hated* MSWord. But WP couldn't keep up. I eventually landed at Linux and had the corresponding version of WP. Then Corel bought it, then MS bought/ran/abused Corel.

    I've been switching between gedit/abiword/OOOrg since and haven't been able to get the same...zen...as I used to with WordPerfect.

    And, y'know, I think my desire to write has decreased as a result...

    1. Re:WordPerfect...5.1 by The+Fun+Guy · · Score: 1

      Good lord, someone who *enjoyed* writing grant requests? You poor, sad, sick bastard. Therapy helps, my friend. Trust me... I know.

      I use WordPerfect for all of my internal documents and scientific publications, and have since 5.0, back in the DOS days. I stay with it (now 10.0) because WP does what I tell it to do, and doesn't do anything I didn't explicitly tell it to. It's like a dog that takes well to training. I resist my colleagues' groupthink "standardization" on MS Word, but I do have to use it periodically. I find that using MS Word is like living with a wolf/dog mixed breed. It does what you tell it to 95% of the time, but it isn't really under your control, no matter how much you try to train it.

      --
      The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
    2. Re:WordPerfect...5.1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WordPerfect is up to 11. It is wonderful-most stability problems I had with 10 are solved. There's even a "WP 5.1 Classic" mode. I, too, am frustrated with Word. I need to use it because of the collaboration features it has. I've been able to fake that to some extent by editing the Word documents that I am sent in WordPerfect. Abiword chokes on those.

  57. Plaintext by Bonker · · Score: 1

    I do some writing for fun and enjoyment. I've written a few thousand pages of anime fanfiction, original fiction, essays, rants, etc.

    I prefer TextPad on Windows and have used BBEdit on Macs. I used to use Super NoteTab on PC, but I moved to TextPad for a few of its features.

    I will not use a word processor for my writing. Period. I will not choose a font. I will not use 'styles' until I'm finished and want to convert my work to stylized text for a web page. I do not want tables. I do not want headers and footers. I do not want 'assistants'. I loathe, I loathe, I loathe autoreplace features! If I wanted a fucking long dash rather than two hyphens, I wouldn't have typed in the two hyphens, would I?

    I really loathe vi's 'modal' text entry and prefer the ability to drag text around with a mouse. I like soft-wrapping, but it's not essential. I like spell-checking, but hate the underlining features of Word that check spelling and grammar. Yeah, I know that sentance isn't formed correctly. I took high-school English. Quit bothering me, dammit!

    --
    The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
    1. Re:Plaintext by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      Let me guess - you do not LIKE vi eggs and ham, either, right? :)

      I sure wish I had a copy of Jesse Jackson reciting Green Eggs & Ham after Dr. Seuss died. That was absolutely perfect.

  58. Re:vi for writers? YES! - LaTeX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I write everything in vi, including dissertations, theses, technical journal publications, reports, stage plays, screen plays, and short stories (no books yet).

    The key (for me) is to use LaTeX as a markup language. It is available for windows, Mac, and Linux and for non-table non-equation oriented work is trivial to learn. Equations and tables aren't particularly hard either, quicker (assuming you type quickly) than MS Word equation mechanisms. Plus it handles all your typesetting for you. I actually use pdflatex which generates nice pdf files.

    Ten years from now, all my work will be in ascii text still, and wether or not LaTeX exists at that time, all I need is a text editor to view my work!

  59. vi - love it by 32bitwonder · · Score: 1

    About a year and a half ago, I decided I wanted to host my own web site, on my own equipment running Linux. The experiment was to teach myself more about Linux - more than the occasional use of Red Hat that I had come to equate with the "Linux experience". When it came time to decide which tool it was that I was going to fashion my site with, I decided to continue my self teaching and write the site from scratch using only vi. By writing it from scratch, I would be forced to write better code and to learn how to use a powerful editor - which was the point of the whole expierment in the first place.

    Now, after using vi for well over a year, I can truly appreciate its complex simplicity. It has a certain ambience which no gui based I've ever seen has ever come close to matching. These days, I'll use nothing else. :wq

  60. Why not PICO? by John+Harrison · · Score: 1

    If simplicity and ease of use is what you want as a writer, you could always fire up PICO.

    1. Re:Why not PICO? by Rudy+Rodarte · · Score: 1

      I used pico in college for all my script and programming. Now, I have PC-Pico installed, just because I like it that much!!
      Back in the day, I remember Bank Street writer (?) an old Apple ][e program that teaches typing. Blue background, white letters. What more do you need??

  61. Joe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I use Joe in 80x25 to write all my stuff.. The ctrl+k combinations are intuitive enough to get stuff saved without reading the man page.. I use Joe to write programs in C and Java.. I use it to write on my book in ascii.. good enough for everything...

  62. To be fair by gpw213 · · Score: 1
    Desktop publishing tools are not appropriate for things like writing a novel. There is no point is distracting an author with font selection, pagination, etc, since the publisher will re-do all of that anyhow.

    However, the tech writers that I know tell me that Microsoft Word is neither a good text entry tool, nor a good desktop publishing program. Framemaker is the one that I am used to using, and it seems to have a pretty good rep with the tech writers also. It is rather pricey, however. I still hope that Adobe will change their mind one of these days and release a linux version. (There was a very usable beta that they decided not to make a product out of.) At this moment, I have a copy of Frame running, remote displayed from a Solaris box onto my linux desktop.

    To weigh in on the Emacs vs Vi war, I find that knowledge of vi is essential for low-level system administration tasks. I tend to use it for any quick little edits. For heavy-lifting, like programming, I use Xemacs. I like the auto-indentation, and find syntax highlighting makes code much easier to read. I know that gvim will do just about anything that emacs does these days, but I have been using emacs for years, and am too stubborn to switch.

    --
    However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. -- Winston Churchill
  63. Editors, editors, and word processors by crmartin · · Score: 1

    Loved to see this, as it matches my experience. Oh, I'm mostly an EMACS user, but when I'm not feeling religious I happily use vi -- say a quick script when I'm su'ed.

    When I'm writing fiction, screenplays, or other prose, I just use EMACS text mode, except that recently i've been using emacs-wiki mode. (See here for details.)

    All that other crap in Word etc just gets in the way.

    (I will say I really liked Word for DOS 6.0, the one that got the new interface but kept regular old character-mode text and style-sheets. Leave it to Microsoft to come up with something really workable, and EOL it.)

  64. apple //e keyboard by frankmu · · Score: 1

    i still find the apple //e keyboard to be the most typing friendly of them all. i remember many all-nighters in college working on term papers.

    i have to admitthough, that i need to start an essay on a piece of paper, with a rollerball pen.

    --
    Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
  65. Re:vi is but... another WordStar-like. by rpresser · · Score: 1

    I remember VDE ... from my CP/M days. God, I loved that thing. Even though I'm devoted to vim now, I think my fingers still remember some ^k commands ... and definitely ^x=down, ^e=up, ^s=left, ^d=right, ^c=pgdn, ^r=pgup.

  66. newspaper by scrotch · · Score: 2, Informative

    I work for a small newspaper and we have related issues. Writers use Word and do all sorts of inconsistent formating (inconsistent from other writers and other paragraphs they wrote). Everything gets placed in Quark XPress and most of the formatting dissappears. Most of the rest of it has to be undone.

    It's absurd to use a word processor that costs hundreds of dollars rather than TextEdit or Notepad just to mark a few words bold or italic (that's all the formatting we keep). It's also too tempting for writers to try to insert tables or images or other nonsense that really needs to be submitted as a seperate file. To make it more difficult, Quark 4.x on the Mac won't open an RTF or SimpleText file and retain the little formatting we need. It'll open a proprietary .doc just fine, though. It's rather absurd if you ask me. I've been told that Quark 6 opens RTF files, finally, maybe that will put an end to it.

  67. Norton Textra Writer by Some+guy+named+Chris · · Score: 1

    Did anybody else ever use "Norton Textra Writer"?

    The best link I could find was this glowing 1990 review about it. I guess my love for it came from the fact it was the first word processor program I ever used, back when we carried our Creative Writing 101 papers to school on a 5.25" floppy. It was simple, cheap, and accessable.

    Ah... nostalgia!

  68. Words of Wisdom from Mike Callahan by S.R. by Jedi+Holocron · · Score: 3, Funny

    If I may quote Spider Robinson a moment:

    "Goc damn it, you didn't write it on a "word processor"! Or even on a "computer." What it is, is a goddamn typewrite--a machine for turning fingerstrokes on a keyboard into ink symbols on a piece of paper. (Okay, yours can also be used as a computer when you're not writing--my old Ryal manual can be used as a nutcracker, or a paperweight, or a murder weapon.) The silicon revolution did not change that process--from the user's point of view--much more than did the electric typewriter, it merely streamlined the error-correction process. When it's being used to make words appear on a page, it's a typewriter.
    To speak of your "word processor" is like refering to your car as an "exothermically powered, myocontrolled matter transporter." [ed. or refering to a flashlight as a "low voltage high density photon projector"] The only purpose of the term is to cue your listeners that you can afford to use a computer as a typewriter, and all it really tells them is that you're insecure enough to worry that people might think you still used one of those old-fashioned things to type on.
    --Mike"

    Take it for what it is worth...

    1. Re:Words of Wisdom from Mike Callahan by S.R. by Jedi+Holocron · · Score: 1

      Guess I should have used a "word process" to cut and paste that post...

      "Goc = God". Opps...

      I'm sure there are more...

    2. Re:Words of Wisdom from Mike Callahan by S.R. by dsplat · · Score: 1

      Take it for what it is worth...

      For what it is worth, this tells me something about how Spider Robinson writes. It may be the best explanation for why he is a successful writer and I am not. If he uses a computer as a typewriter, that implies that he writes linearly. There is not only nothing wrong with that, it may be crucial to making his prose flow the way it does. I say that as a long time fan of his books.

      On the other hand, when I'm writing, I tend to hop around. I go back and change a few words, or return to the previous paragraph and add a sentence fairly often. I had previously attributed this to the fact that I am a neophyle and I was an early adopter of computers. The number of words that I have written on one computer or another is into eight figures at this point. But taking it in light of the comment above, I'm inclined to believe that my thinking process simply doesn't lend itself as well to the typewriter as it does to editors that allow me to skip around.

      --
      The net will not be what we demand, but what we make it. Build it well.
    3. Re:Words of Wisdom from Mike Callahan by S.R. by jak163 · · Score: 1

      The important distinction is that a computer also stores your older work and previous versions of your current work, as well as research notes, sometimes in database form. Now it also serves as a medium for circulating drafts and communicating with colleagues. It can also increasingly be a method of conducting research--searching catalogs, requesting interlibrary loan items, and in some cases downloading primary documents or finding facts that can be cited. So it's never really been accurate to call it a typewriter, and it's becoming less and less so.

  69. Mellel for Mac OS X by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 1
    This will probably be one of those 'hey this is my personal favourite app' posts.. ok, it is... but before you scroll away, just take a quick peek at this app: Mellel. (Warning: those of you who hate brushed metal will cringe at first. I humbly submit that this is Metal Done Right(TM).)

    It's gorgeous, functional, truly multilingual, and rocks my world. It looks like bloody iTunes, which sounds wacky, but actually works astoundingly well. And its $25.

    However, I take my writing apps very seriously. For most of my (Mac) friends, I say use TextEdit. It is truly MacWrite reincarnated. Totally dead simple, but with the features you actually need: spell check, ligatures, smart quotes, a tab ruler, Find + Replace, and not a whole hell of a lot else. Oh, well one other thing: the Panther version reads Word docs.

    --
    If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
  70. Proud BeOS user as well by IWantMoreSpamPlease · · Score: 1

    I am a writer, though not professionally I have been published on numerous occasions. My word processor of choice was originally AmiPro (2.0!) under Win98se.

    Until I discovered BeOS and GoBe Productive. Haven't looked back since. (contention) Best OS/Office package out there. (/contention)

    --
    So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
  71. vi love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    why dont you and vi get a room? i like vi also but that was the longest reason to say 'i love vi' i've ever seen. kudos. :q!

  72. My biggest bane... by Croaker · · Score: 1

    I'm not a novelist, but rather a technical writer, so the formatting and so forth of text isn't such a distraction for me (it's just part of the job). The best tool, hands down, for this is FrameMaker. It gets out of your way, but still lets you quickly format text. If you apply styles as you go along (which is very quick... F9, start typing the style name, hit return, and your paragraph is formatted, unlike Word which requires you to choose a unique key combo for each paragraph style shortcut).

    For just plain text, I like the Joe text editor (which someone else has already recommended). Of course, I was a bit biased since my college roomate wrote the thing in the first place. I've written a few shorter pieces, and when I find myself on Linux and needing just a simple bit of text, I'll run Joe and whip it together, then import the text wherever it needs to go.

    The only fancy-shcmancy feature in modern wordprocessors I really find useful is autotext. I make the same typos over and over again... having a system I can get to fix them for my automatically would be ideal, if it retained the simplicty of, say, Joe. Even spellchecking on the fly, which I usually leave on, can distract from teh flow of words. Having the computer make fixes to obvious typos can help, and not get too under my skin. I would love to see a version of Joe that had just autotext added. That would bump it back up on my list of text editing.

    My biggest distrction these days is... well, everything *else* on the computer. The Web (nothing as tempting to a writer than doing a little quick research... but being able to research every single paragraph you are writing at the drop of a hat is a Really Bad Thing). Email. MP3s, etc. Nigh infinite distractions.

    This is why I've been thinking of getting an AlphaSmart Dana It's like a laptop specifically aimed at writing. Really long battery life, some flexibility, but still some limitations on what it can do, as far as internet access and whatnot. I've found with laptops, that I'm always keeping an eye on the battery gauge (I;ve never had a laptop that could last over 2 hours or so on a charge, and I get nervous when they get under 50% full. The Dana seems to match the long life of a Palm with a good keyboard...

  73. WordPerfect 5.1 on MS-DOS by red_dragon · · Score: 1

    I doubt there's any other software out there that has single-handedly extended the life of so many rickety old computers (including XT clones), attracted countless technophobes to computers, and triggered the mass extinction of another tool (the typewriter) from most offices all at the same time the way that WP5.1 did. In hindsight, word processors haven't improved much since then; WYSIWYG gets only half credit, since WP had a WYSIWYG preview mode if your graphics hardware supported it.

    --
    In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
    1. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 on MS-DOS by RatBastard · · Score: 1

      WP 5.1 for DOS is as close to the perfect word processor that I've ever seen, and was my sole writing platform until two years ago. I'm still not sure which writing program I'm going to replace it with. I like NoteTabPro, but it doesn't quite do everything I want. OpenOffice is okay, but gets twitchy on me. I really like the ability to put passwords on my files, but there are other features that annoy me.

      --
      Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
    2. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 on MS-DOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RatBas****, I agree completely about how great WP5.1 for DOS was. I used it for about fourteen years, and I loved it. If you are in the market now for a new word processor, I strongly recommend that you check out the new WordPerfect 11. It has something called "Classic Mode" which allows one to set up WP like the old 5.1. You can have the full blue screen, and almost all of the familiar WP5.1 DOS keyboard shortcuts. I think that there is still a free thirty-day trial version available on the corel.com website (under Downloads), and I heard recently that it's available from Amazon for only $99--a fraction of the cost for that M$ Word monstrosity, and unlike Word, WP is fully backward-compatible all the way back to version 4.2! It also has excellent conversion filters for Word documents and other file types, and it's incredibly stable. Of course it also has password protection. I do not think you will be disappointed...

    3. Re:WordPerfect 5.1 on MS-DOS by Maniac47 · · Score: 1

      I use Word Perfect 5.1 for DOS (with the background set to black and font to grey) to write, and will continue to use it till there are no more ways to have it running on a computer. *grin*

      It's currently running fine on my Win XP desktop and Win 2000 laptop.

      --
      http://www.veranazarian.com/
  74. AH! MY PENIS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah MY PENIS, aH my penis, AH My PeNiS, AH mY pEnIs, AH MY PENIS!

  75. This guy sounds like Carrie on "Sex And The City" by uradu · · Score: 1

    "Would those green emissions overwhelm my inner eye of imagination, unlike a piece of paper sitting in a typewriter?"

    "Could it be that pink shoes and a semi-transparent whiff of cloth really will make me a better woman?"

    Seriously, if he gets too distracted by his tools to put down words, maybe he doesn't have much to say to begin with. Besides, there certainly is a touch of forced excentricity to the choices of some famour writers. Hemingway used carpenter's pencils? Ha, the common hack! I will use nothing but the horn of a unicorn to scratch my glorious thoughts into redwood tablets. Anything else just won't do.

  76. "more a typewriter with memory" by Le+Marteau · · Score: 1

    more a typewriter with memory, not a desktop publishing system.

    That's EXACTLY what I want. What I'm looking for is a machine I can take to a meeting just for note-taking... bare bones, with a reasonable keyboard, and cheap. Don't want or need a PDA or games, just want a note-taking tool, which has to be able to switch keyboard layount to Dvorak.

    I'm thinking maybe an old 386 laptop... they've gotta be practically giving 'em away these days.

    Any ideas, anyone?

    --
    Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
    1. Re:"more a typewriter with memory" by ewanrg · · Score: 1

      Actually what you want is a Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 Portable Computer. I used one of these when I was in College, and not only are they cheap (about $30 on ebay), but they were designed for text processing by reporters.

  77. One thing I never understood... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do other people need GRAPHICS (a GUI) to write TEXT?

  78. My two cents. by CGP314 · · Score: 1

    Writing something that matters vs. writing for school:

    I've noticed a marked distinction between when I write something that matters to me (my weekly London journal for example) and when I write something I just want to get done (a school paper).

    For my journal, I write it out first longhand on yellow paper. For some reason, if I want something to be a good piece of writing, it has to be done longhand. When I do type it up, I share the author's abhorrence of GUI. Terminal mode emacs is the only way to go for me. No distractions.

    When I write something I 'just want to get done', a school paper for example, Microsoft Word is my weapon of choice. Here I can endless distract myself and slowly inflate my writing with a careful choice of fonts, paragraphs spacing, and the ever useful extra points between letters.


    P.S. This post was written in word.

  79. TeX can work too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Markup languages are nice.

    You decide the book would be better with the chapter headings in 14 point - change one definition, reprint, you're done.

    Quotes appear as ascii text in the manuscript, as proper quote marks in the finished document.

    For most fiction, you simply type. I have written short stories in TeX. A few definitions at the top, then start typing.

    For Windows, I like Textpad, a nice combination of a text editor with just enough GUI to be helpful.

  80. Neil Stephenson by autopr0n · · Score: 1

    Didn't NS write a large part of his new book with a quill? I seem to remember hearing something like that. hmm

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    1. Re:Neil Stephenson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FWIW, in previous books he has used Linux as an OS an Emacs as a writing environment. I recall the following quote: "If you are a professional writer ... emacs outshines all other editing software in approximately the same way that the noonday sun does the stars."

    2. Re:Neil Stephenson by TeknoHog · · Score: 1
      Slashdot Poll: Favourit spelign of the cyberpunk writer Stephenson's frist name
      1. Neil
      2. Neal
      3. CowboyNeil
      4. CowboyNeal
      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  81. LaTex anyone? by olorin42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I personally use LaTeX for all of my writing beyond a simple memo (which is usually email at this point). Although I am no professional writer, I find myself writing and maintaining several large documents on a daily basis. Things like software architecture documentation, requirements documents, etc.

    Tex's seperation of "content" from "formating" means that, as I am writing, I am not distracted by things like font and layout, I can decide on that stuff later. Then all I do is publish to Postscript,PDF or HTML and I am done.

    I have written everything from my master's thesis, to magazine/journal articles, and large(50-200 page) documents for my business with it and have had no complaints. The documents can easily be maintained in a source controll system like cvs, because they are just text. I use the emacs tex-mode for editing the documents and I find it to be a very productive combination.

    The other nice thing is that LaTeX is a full fledged typesetting system and does a very good job of laying things out in a consistent manner. IIRC, O'Reilly used to use TeX for typesetting all of there books, but I am not sure if that is still ture. But LaTeX does produce great looking documents, I have recieved numerous comments from my clients on how consistent and professional my documents look.

    The only problem with it is when people want to get the document in "word format" so that it can be maintained by someone other than myself. Or when I am working on an article and the magazine requires it to be submitted in word format. I still haven't found a good solution to this, but thankfully it is not something that happens too often.

    I have thought about moving to a more "modern" system like DocBook, but I haven't found any good tools for working with DocBook documents yet. Nor do I like the very verbose XML syntax which seems to me to clutter up the text much more than the simple LaTeX directives. So, I really haven't had sufficient motivation to change yet.

    --
    Wisest of Miar, knows the meaning of life
    1. Re:LaTex anyone? by holy+zarquon's+singi · · Score: 1
      The only problem with it is when people want to get the document in "word format" so that it can be maintained by someone other than myself. Or when I am working on an article and the magazine requires it to be submitted in word format. I still haven't found a good solution to this, but thankfully it is not something that happens too often.
      I have found LaTeX2rtf to be an adequate solution. Better than Latex2html->save as .doc.
      --
      "...we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that." B.Spears 2003
  82. Cuneiform is essential by Camel+Pilot · · Score: 2, Funny

    Time to get back to the basics folks.

    Good writing should really be done on the primary writing environment - that is cuneform and clay.

    You should really forego the modern inventions of typewriters, ink and paper and such as they will contaminate the muse and offend the gods. Nothing like the smell and feel of freshly pressed clay tablets.

  83. Does vi cause overblown prose? by ColonelPanic · · Score: 1

    Possibly only a blunt pencil lead would bear the vitality of words flowing from his fingertips.

    I'm wiping tears from my eyes as I struggle to comprehend the power of these utterly compelling images. If I wrote with vi, could I be this good too?

    --
    "Skill shows through where genius wears thin." -Wittgenstein || Religion: uniting aviation and architecture.
  84. Wordpad! by FroBugg · · Score: 1

    I don't really do any sort of creative writing, but I do take most of my notes on my laptop at school.

    For that I've found my best bet is Wordpad. It gives me a little bit more flexibility than Notepad, so I can do bold and italics, but I get to save everything in .rtf without the obnoxiousness of Word.

  85. Re:vi for writers? YES! - LaTeX by AugustMoon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I write everything in vi, including dissertations, theses, technical journal publications, reports, stage plays, screen plays, and short stories (no books yet).

    The key (for me) is to use LaTeX as a markup language. It is available for windows, Mac, and Linux and for non-table non-equation oriented work is trivial to learn. Equations and tables aren't particularly hard either, quicker (assuming you type quickly) than MS Word equation mechanisms. Plus it handles all your typesetting for you. I actually use pdflatex which generates nice pdf files.

    Ten years from now, all my work will be in ascii text still, and wether or not LaTeX exists at that time, all I need is a text editor to view my work!

    Now, I'm partial to vi, but any sufficiently good text editor would be fine. Functionally rich enough and worth the learning curve.

  86. Because we use vi, son. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Call the Police!

    (it seems thinkgeek no longer stocks these.. oh well, at least I got mine..)

  87. Notepad, Editpad or Textpad... by pdboddy · · Score: 1

    I've used one of these three programs for most of the writing I've done in the past 8 years or so, since Windoze 95 hit the world. Before that, I used a Wang word processor. Seriously, I agree with the post above where people had nasty words for Word. I strongly dislike word processors, especially ones that do things automatically without asking or indicating what they're about to do, and can't be turned off. I don't know about everyone else, but whenever I make a typing mistake, my fingers have already backspaced over it and retyped the correct letters before my concious brain has fully caught on. So when MS Word changes "teh" to "the" without my telling it to... it pisses me off. :P It's a pity that so many of my business's clients use Word...

    --
    Julie Moult is an idiot.
  88. My Dream Writing System by Schlemphfer · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I've been working on a book for the past year, and I spent many hours thinking hard before settling on my writing tool of choice. It wasn't my G4 tower with flat panel, nor was it my 1.6 gigahertz Vaio with flat panel. I decided the optimal tool for writing my book was a 266 Mhz Thinkpad I scored last summer off eBay for about $250.

    I prefered the Thinkpad for a couple of reasons. First, it had the best keyboard I've ever used. Second, I deliberately never installed games, nor hooked it up to the Internet. So I was never tempted to check email or surf the web when I should be writing.

    As for my word processor, OpenOffice did not until recently have a decent "draft mode" type view until recently. ABIword was too unstable (I don't know about the new 2.0 release.) So I've been using WordPerfect 10.0, which has the speed and flexibility I could desire, great footnoting, plus the ability to view embedded codes on the off chance your document gets screwed up.

    I'd say right now, my dream system for writing would be:

    A mini-PC
    Flat panel
    Thinkpad 600 Keyboard (how I wish I could buy the keyboard alone, that's why this is a dream PC.)
    WordPerfect

    A little shopping around for a used 1.6 Mhz system, and the whole thing shouldn't cost more than $400-$500. I couldn't ask for anything better for writing.

    --
    I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
    1. Re:My Dream Writing System by John+Harrison · · Score: 1
      You can buy the keyboard alone. IBM has started selling the IBM USB Keyboard with Ultranav on their website. It is a Thinkpad keyboard for a desktop computer. That does what you want, right?

      Personally I have an old Type M, with real clickyness.

    2. Re:My Dream Writing System by jvagner · · Score: 1

      I've been writing, too, and my instrument of choice is a Compaq Presario 1200 I inherited from a girlfriend. 10" screen, 450MHz. It's out in the garage, and there are practically no applications installed.

      I've actually been using The Journal by David RM (http://davidrm.com/) for most of my writing. It's a wonderful app, and the only Windows application (outside of UltraEdit) I've ever paid for.

  89. of course Emacs will lose ... by kaan · · Score: 4, Funny

    because everybody knows that Power = VI

    even freshman Physics students could tell you that...

    1. Re:of course Emacs will lose ... by kurosawdust · · Score: 1

      dammit, if we could only squeeze an "A" in to "E=MC Squared"!!

    2. Re:of course Emacs will lose ... by sinserve · · Score: 1

      "A" is Sinserve's constant, and it equals to 1. Now
      go back and balance that equation.

    3. Re:of course Emacs will lose ... by KarmaPolice · · Score: 1

      because everybody knows that Power = VI

      even freshman Physics students could tell you that...


      Geez, hate to be trolling but:
      U = voltage (unit is V for Volt)
      I = current (unit is A for Apms)
      Power = UI (unit is W for Watt)

      So it's either UI or VA. Emacs wins, I guess... ...even high-school student could tell you that!

    4. Re:of course Emacs will lose ... by kaan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not so, young grasshopper. Straight-up Electricity and Magnetism offers the following as a staple equation:

      Power = potential difference * current
      = V * I
      = VI

      I hereby invalidate your troll attempt!

  90. Message boards by Gefiltefish11 · · Score: 1


    I do all of my best writing on internet message boards and forums.

    The pencil be damned.

  91. EditPlus by nycsubway · · Score: 1

    I've found EditPlus to be an extremely useful editor. I especially like the column select feature. Search and replace is nice. and also the ability to load 70MB files without any problem.

    While I'm not familiar with Textpad, it seems similar to EditPlus

  92. Save often by yerricde · · Score: 1

    ctrl-z only works for your last mistake - then it just redoes your mistake over

    But can Ctrl+Z undo saving?

    that would totally suck it big time to lose like 250 pages of work

    Not if I keep each chapter in a separate file and save often.

    becase your pet walked across your keyboard

    Not likely if the screen saver has kicked in and locked the terminal. I don't think my cat could figure how to walk across my password.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  93. Bah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another "I don't need all these features!" person. If you don't need 'em, don't use 'em. Take a few days to learn how to use the program (disable the automated formatting/correction, set up templates, pick the fonts you like, etc.) then get to work. "I couldn't figure out how to turn off XYZ" is absurd. Why would you not spend a few days learning how to use a tool that will occupy the majority of your free time for the next few months (or years!)?!?

    Just because a program has features does not mean you have to use them. That's like complaining that cell phones eliminate personal privacy. Newsflash: They can be turned off. If you don't want to be disturbed by your cell phone, turn it off. If you don't want Word to automatically format your document, turn off auto-format.

    And what's that crap about "picking a font" for the day's work?!? Why on earth would you change fonts in the middle of a project? Very few books (speaking of novels (fiction and non)) use multiple fonts. Pick one and stick with it. If you just can't resist toying with the pull-down menu, REMOVE IT.

    I remember using word processors in the 80s. They sucked ass. Moving a chunk of text was a true PITA. Why would I want to make it harder than select/click?

    Have a little discipline. Learn how to use the tools properly and have the restraint to use only the features needed to get the job done. If your work doesn't call for tables, don't play with them. Leave the colored text alone. Stop changing the font. You're not in kindergarten any more. :rolleyes:

  94. LyX by frohike · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Really, I figured someone would have said this by now (maybe they have and I need to refresh again :) but what this guy really needs is LyX. It's basically a pretty word-processor-style front end for LaTeX. The help files and tutorial explicitly tell you that LyX follows a "WYSIWYM" principle -- What You See Is What You Mean. It tries to avoid pushing details like formatting into the writer's head, and instead focuses on getting the words organized into a meaningful structure. The program takes care of formatting everything based on the style you choose (you can choose any style at any time and the whole doc reflects it on the next preview). It's more or less the whole MVC paradigm that the XML/XSL folks push, but it's actually practical.

    After discovering it I became a lot more productive with my writing. Admittedly that was limited mostly to writing college papers, but I spent a lot less time fighting with the word processor over formatting, focused on the writing, and the output was usually awesome looking.

    YMMV I guess, if you're a formatting control freak then LyX won't work so well for you. Sometimes it's tough to make it do exactly what you want in the formatting phase too, so I eventually switched to using raw LaTeX or TeX for my docs, but LyX is a good middle of the road solution.

  95. Writing tools by miketo · · Score: 4, Informative

    As a professional writer, I use a lot of different tools. Several of my books I've used MS Word, because the publishers had special templates and macros they used in production that weren't easily ported or usable in other software. (I know, I tried it.) On other stuff (aka 'submitted but not published' works) I've used TextPad, OpenOffice, and Power Writer . TextPad lets me write without getting any programming or interface nonsense in the way; OpenOffice lets me compose more complex documents with footnotes; and Power Writer contains plot, character, and idea databases that help keep all my reference details in one place. All good, all for different reasons. Except Word. I'm not very fond of Word.

  96. What other control-key command editors? by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1


    What other WordStar-like control-key command editors are there? I find that not having to take my hands off the home row of keys saves about 15% of editing time. I also find that Vi (Vim) is too complicated and quirky to teach my customers.

    I would like to see the authors of the Scintilla editor make control-key commands available, perhaps with a way to change modes between control-key commands and the present shortcut key commands.

    To use the control-key commands, the control key should be just to the left of the A key. This program converts the Caps Lock key to a Control key: Ctrl2cap.

    Here are a few Control-key editing commands. Anyone who is interested in this subject should contact me for the complete list. (The list formatting is damaged by Slashdot.)


    Some Control-Key Editor Commands (Save about 15% of editing time.)

    Name of Command Primary Sequence Secondary Sequence

    Character left <Left> <^S>
    Character right <Right> <^D>
    Word left <^Left> <^A>
    Word right <^Right> <^F>
    Cursor to left side <Home> <^Q><^S>
    Cursor to right side <End> <^Q><^D>
    Line up <Up> <^E>
    Line down <Down> <^X>
    Scroll up <^W>
    Scroll down <^Z>
    Page up <PgUp> <^R>
    Page down <PgDn> <^C>

    Top of file <^PgUp> <^Q><^R>
    End of file <^PgDn> <^Q><^C>
    Top of window <^Home> <^Q><^E>
    Bottom of window <^End> <^Q><^X>
    Up to equal indent <^J><^B>
    Down to equal indent <^J><^E>
    Go to line <^J><^L>
    Go to column <^J><^C>
    Go to byte <^J><^A>
    Previous cursor position <^Q><^P>
    Match braces forward <^Q><^[>
    Match braces backward <^Q><^]>

    New line <Enter>
    Insert line <^N>
    Insert control char <^P>
    Delete current character <Del> <^G>
    Delete left character <BkSp> <^BkSp>
    Delete right word <^T>
    Delete line right <^Q><^Y>
    Delete line <^Y>

    1. Re:What other control-key command editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't Vim, emacs, etc. be made to use whatever key assignments you'd like?

      Many text editors that I have surveyed have configurable key assignments. So, in many cases at least, you're not stuck with what comes out-of-the-box.

    2. Re:What other control-key command editors? by bplipschitz · · Score: 1

      What other WordStar-like control-key command editors are there? I find that not having to take my hands off the home row of keys saves about 15% of editing time. I also find that Vi (Vim) is too complicated and quirky to teach my customers.

      Hunt down an old copy of WordPerfect 5.0 for DOS. Keyboard commands are still faster than using a mouse, and I try to learn as many of them as possible.

    3. Re:What other control-key command editors? by prairiedock · · Score: 1

      Jed does Wordstar keystrokes. Also does Emacs (keystrokes). Unlimited configuration possibilities. Available in Red Hat and Slackware and probably most other good distributions. Look here.

  97. Fuck yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you pompous blowhard.

    BTW, I know Hemingway and you ain't no Hemingway.

  98. Modern-day typewriters by CAIMLAS · · Score: 3, Interesting
    If you're big on 'minimalist' stuff for writing, I'd strongly recommend one of the following (depending on how 'minimalist' you want to get):

    AlphaSmart 3000

    AlphaSmart Dana

    They're (basically) Palm Pilots with full-sized keyboard functionality, w/o any irritating clip-on devices, etc. Their "word processor" is quite minimalistic with basic features such as spellcheck. Definately a nice tool for the mobile geek writer.

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    1. Re:Modern-day typewriters by RighteousFunby · · Score: 1

      I had an AlphaSmart for schoolwork once, and damn it was...OK. Three lines of display, about 30 char lines...brr...I eventually gave back the Alphasmart (it was a 3000, IIRC) and plumped for a Compaq 486 laptop with Win95 which JUST BARELY ran Word 2000 (Abiword was nice, but the school wanted Word, Excel and all that jazz). An old laptop really is a good thing to have...too bad mine snapped in half (Compaq + Anything except complete stillness in a styrofoam box = Dead laptop in pieces, YMMV).

    2. Re:Modern-day typewriters by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      You really should check out the Dana AlphaSmart. It's got PalmOS 4.1-something on it, has a decent sized display (it's about 4 palm-icons deep, and three palm screens wide), and it's quite useable. You can use all the basic palmOS options, too: graffiti, address book, web browser, etc. They've got quite a few nice features, too: wifi, pc connectivity, connect directly to USB printers, and the like. It's only got 16M of internal memory, but I imagine you could use the USB slot for one of the USB token cards w/ 32M - 1024M capacities.

      With about 8hr of battery life, cool things like perl for palmos available, it begins looking like a fairly viable laptop replacement. Unfortunately, the 400$-ish price tag is a bit steep for something that runs at under 100MHz.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    3. Re:Modern-day typewriters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use the Alpha Smart Dana for both work and for creative writing.

      As a physician, I use this for home visits where I can furiously pound out a note that I can later download to my home or work computer. No fancy pop-ups, few fancy options, just raw text with a little simple formatting (I can save empty template files which I can fill in and save as patient names). I had tried using a lap-top and this was hopeless; too long to start up, too long to shut down, too hard to plug in, and too worried I'd lose the damned thing.

      The Dana has none of these lapses. I had initially thought I'd get a plain vanilla Alphasmart, but the ability to use all my Palm OS software (mostly medical dictionaries, but also PDF files), not learning a new system, as well as the capability of having 2 SD slots for memory cards sold me fast on this lovely little machine.

      I also use this for creative writing when on the road, as the Dana's battery life is incredible, and the keyboard very easy on the hands. I'm surprised more persons don't use this for writing on the road, in classes (it's great for lectures or conferences), or on a rainy day at the cottage. ::Brian::

  99. Notepad? WordPad? by JLSigman · · Score: 0
    Did his laptop have neither of these?

    When I write, I still hand-write (or, in my case, scribble) into a notebook, then transfer to Notepad. While it's true I haven't tried for something as huge as a novel, my 20+ page (when typed) short stories are still lovingly started by hand.

    --
    -jls
    Techno-pagan
  100. Tool preference by Pointy_Hair · · Score: 1

    The concept goes beyond pencils vs. word processing software. It's all about a craftsman choosing a comfortable tool that gets the job done. That may be vi on a VT100 or could just as well be the latest, bloated version of Word. A great case can be made for a host of options. The value of each is in the eye of the user.

    I have a similar contrast with my telephones at home. I have both a fairly new 2.4Ghz wireless model (hidden in a corner) and a few Western Electric Model 500s around the house. The wireless phone is great for checking voice mail or taking a call while remaining mobile. But there's nothing more satisfying than watching visitors grind out a 10 digit number on a dial phone. Or the satisfying chime of real, metal bells when you slam the reciever down after telemarketers call.

  101. This is Jon Katz. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... its incredibly obvious.

  102. Awesomecross 98 by vespazzari · · Score: 1

    Children and old people - NOT ALLOWED!!!

    --
    "Alcohol, cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" -Homer Simpson
    1. Re:Awesomecross 98 by Bradee-oh! · · Score: 1

      Thank you! :)
      Recognition achieved.

      --
      "This is Zombo Com, and welcome to you who have come to Zombo Com" - www.zombo.com
  103. Fiddling vs. "Good Enough" by Fencepost · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The problem with any WYSIWYG editor is that they promote fiddling with appearance when really the appearance is minor and the content is what matters. For a lot of things I'd actually rather have WordPerfect 5.1 than anything WYSIWYG, because it really doesn't matter whether the text ends halfway down the last page or has an extra 1 pt of spacing between each line to take it to the bottom of the page.

    Put differently, it all goes back to the aphorism "Perfection is the enemy of (good/progress/etc.)" which is true not just because in trying to make things perfect you often either ruin them or never finish them - it's true because everyone's idea of perfection is different, but most of us can agree on "pretty good".

    --
    fencepost
    just a little off
    1. Re:Fiddling vs. "Good Enough" by pmz · · Score: 1

      The problem with any WYSIWYG editor is that they promote fiddling with appearance when really the appearance is minor and the content is what matters.

      "Print Preview" is much better for when formatting time comes. LaTeX + a Makefile + ghostview is exactly this, for example. WYSIWYG is really just a hangover from the 1990's, unfortunately.

    2. Re:Fiddling vs. "Good Enough" by dekashizl · · Score: 1

      How can people keep making this silly argument? Do we all admit that our will-power is so minimal that when presented with a Font dropdown box, we cannot help but click-click-click to try out each font?

      I certainly feel that MSWord is a huge bloated piece of crap with an closed and sloppy file format and convoluted options "system". But it also lets you do some amazing thing, especially with respect to document structure (indices, footnotes, table of contents, formatting, etc.).

      You (everyone) need to separate your specific complaints (eg auto-correct being on by default) from the fact that the program is feature-rich. Nobody forces you to waste your time changing margins and fonts. Nobody makes you put page breaks in just the right places. If you can't get your work done because of this stuff, then that's your own fault. Don't blame televisions for being small and fitting inside your office for the fact that you keep watching television instead of working. Just do your work.

      Bloated software typically is poorly designed (piled upon). MSWord is made for the lowest common denominator (people who would rather have their spelling mistakes fixed for them than actually know how to spell the words). But software doesn't "promote fiddling with appearance". It is a tool that can be used or misused.

    3. Re:Fiddling vs. "Good Enough" by holy_fire · · Score: 1
      when I started using WYSIWYG-Editors I found I had the same problem, I endlessly fiddled to make what little text I managed to get down "nice" but didn't get any work done, at least not in time.

      Since I find these nice buttons and icons and pulldown-menus hard to resist I now first write the content (mostly documentation) down in a plain text editor (like notepad or simpletext or whatever is available) and only after I wrote everything down I'll move the text over to one of these fancy word processors and try to make them look nice.

      When the deadline arrives it's almost never perfect but at least it's complete and sometimes even pretty :-)

      --
      bye, Chris
    4. Re:Fiddling vs. "Good Enough" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get rid of the del and backspace while you're at it. It only encourages sloppy typing, followed by corrections. Likewise for cut-and-paste. I've made three screwups and corrected them in this little paragraph. What a freakin time sink! (oops, make it four now)

  104. Re:vi for writers? YES! - LaTeX by michael_cain · · Score: 1
    Ten years from now, all my work will be in ascii text still, and wether or not LaTeX exists at that time, all I need is a text editor to view my work!
    Certainly for a professional writer (or anyone whose profession calls for writing), longevity of the file format should be an important consideration. I have a friend who started a book back around 1995, who wanted to go back and pick up his work on it. It was written in whatever version of Word was current at the time. 2003 versions of Word would not successfully open the files. I don't know if MS provides any sort of converters for files that old, but TTBOMK, my friend never was successful in fully recovering the contents. There was quite a bit of math in the manuscript, and I believe that those parts had to be re-entered manually. I can't speak for LaTex, but I have 20-year-old papers prepared with troff/mm that format just fine with groff/mm today.
  105. Re:Jerry Pournelle's requirement: Help me do this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Any idea on how to get OpenOffice.org Writer to do this? If I change the page background, that's how it prints. I only want to change the view.

    I'm using Windows XP so I know I could alter the theme in Control Panel, but I don't want to do a system-wide change because it screws up lots of other things (like web browsing).

    Help!!

  106. Additional Simplicity by Keighvin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm of the same school of thought, keep the writing process as simple as possible so as not to occlude the creativity.

    To that end, I have an AlphaSmart(.com) - a small portable keyboard, 4 lines of text, capable of storing about 100 pages (12pt. single spaced courier) of information. It runs on 3 AA (LR6) batteries and gets between 500-700 hours (no, no missing decimal points) of active use per set. I honestly haven't changed them in over a year. All active memory too, never worry about saving - it's always there no matter when it's turned off.

    It emulates a keyboard when hooked up to a host machine, so open your favorite app and hit "Send" and the text is put in wherever you want it; connects via ADB, PS2, and USB. The only additional feature I've ever wished for was a VI interface on it to speed up some editing proceedures.

    I highly recommend any freelance writer, journalist, novelist, student, etc. take a look at the device. They have a newer model running PalmOS for those who might be interested as well (no Linux, yet).

    --
    Any spoon would be too big.
    1. Re:Additional Simplicity by TrekCycling · · Score: 1

      Hear Hear! I love my Alphasmart.

    2. Re:Additional Simplicity by jak163 · · Score: 1

      Which brings up one critical advantage of the typewriter or pen and paper--it's much more portable than even a laptop, especially a manual typewriter.

  107. Yes. by Trillan · · Score: 1

    If Dreamweaver MX was more responsive and had spell-as-you-type, I'd dispose of all of my other editors and just use it.

    The formatting it's capable of with a single keystroke is exactly the sort I need when writing... i.e., this paragraph is a chapter title, this text is italicized.

    More over (and most importantly), I'm left with HTML instead of a binary file.

  108. VI instructions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Put this in your bashrc file alias vi=emacs

    1. Re:VI instructions by Dwonis · · Score: 1
      Sure, and while you're at it, also add: alias emacs=vim

      I always run "vim" anyway.

  109. agreeing by kipple · · Score: 1

    beyond all the editor wars, beyond all the people that proposed a thousand different editors (without maybe reading the entire post) - I find this to be a very interesting article.
    It describes exactly my feelings and my need to find an editor, and I'm happy because (g)vi(m) was my choice, too.
    I'm writing this just to tell the author - you're not alone :)

    good job

    --
    -- There are two kind of sysadmins: Paranoids and Losers. (adapted from D. Bach)
  110. Re:vi is but... another WordStar-like. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, VDE is the best pure writer's editor I have ever used. I haven't found anything quite like it on Linux -- I mostly use vi, now, or JED in WordStar/Borland mode.

    Ironically, it was VDE that got me started on my transition to Linux. Switching from WordStar 7 to VDE meant switching from WordStar's near-ASCII format to pure text. That led to the discovery of text processing tools, like grep and awk, which could be freely obtained for DOS. Soon I was writing formatting programs in awk and getting curious about Linux, where text processing tools including a new text processing language called perl were part of the environment. When Windows 95 came out, I chose to learn Linux and perl, instead.

  111. Re:This guy sounds like Carrie on "Sex And The Cit by stratjakt · · Score: 1

    Click here, go to photo gallery, next over to the last photo, which is of Hemingway at work on For Whom The Bell Tolls.

    He ain't using no carpernters pencil. This is just more legend built around the man, you know, the gruff outdoorsy type who shuns the technological trappings of modern society.

    Anyhow, this fella's writing is terrible, you posted two textbook examples of purple prose. Gratuitous overuse of the language simply for its own sake, distracting from the piece rather than adding to it.

    However, does any of this matter? Or is it just a longwinded "MS is ghey I like vi better!" troll?

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  112. Lowest Common Application by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always liked using the application that comes with the system when providing simple documentation. Then I can always read it.
    Unix-vi
    Windows-wordpad/notepad

    What Else is there.

    WhatMeWorry

    1. Re:Lowest Common Application by zpok · · Score: 1

      Apple's TextEdit.
      It has a few typical wordprocessor functions, but you're free not to use them.

      You can open a clean slate without any functions whatsoever, just a blank clean page.

      And it still has spellchecking, all the professional fonts you need, good cross-platform saving options (in Panther it will even include MS Word format) and easy markup functions. You are however free to ignore all that. If you do use those functions, you'll find they're extremely clear and easy to use.

      The marked advantage over wordpad and vi is that your text looks beautiful on that buttonless toolbarless blank page. A quality I personally like very much.

      If that's not spoken like a true Apple fan ...

      --
      I think, therefore I am...I think.
  113. BBEdit on the Mac by napdawger42 · · Score: 1

    On my Mac I use BBEdit almost exclusively now for note-taking and the occasional creative writing I do. It's perfectly suited (and in fact designed) for coding, but it's stability, speed, and simplicity make it ideal for any task.

    Now I only fire up Word when professors insist on pretty formatting for my assignments. As I take more and more CS classes, this is less of an issue.

  114. Yep, he nailed it by LoFat+ByLine · · Score: 1

    I write a lot of reports, which eventually require more formatting than you can get from a text editor. But I write all the initial drafts in Emacs, and only use a word processor to apply formatting when the content development phase is pretty much over.

    Since I started doing this, my output has increased significantly, and the whole process is way more pleasant.

  115. For All those saying "Use Notepad!" by wray · · Score: 2, Informative

    My main two reasons to avoid it are:

    1. Search / Search Replace are terrible. To search you are required to bring up a new window and is not very featureful (regex, incremental search, etc). Replace is equally or more lacking.

    2. Undo is only one step.

    Both of these things are in emacs and vim. Emacs and vim are ported to nearly every platform in existence, and both emacs and vi, can also serve many other purposes besides writing text like programming, publishing (w/ latex, nroff, etc.), letters, mail, and news.

    --
    Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription.. is more cowbell!
    1. Re:For All those saying "Use Notepad!" by UrGeek · · Score: 1

      I use Notepad as much as possible because it is everywhere and I just don't type much more than email or scripts...or posts. The only time I use a word processor is for my resume. Then I use Wordpad.

  116. I have to agree by bbourqu · · Score: 1

    Having cut my computing teeth on the Apple // series, I also long for the days of writing on the Apple. Appleworks was my tool of choice, mostly for research papers and lesson plans, since I was a technical educator at the time. I wrote some of my best stuff on a //c with Appleworks 2.0. WordPerfect 5.1 for Dos was as close to the Apple experience as I ever got. I now use vi to compose, then clean it up and format with some other tool just like the author.

  117. Fonts by vasqzr · · Score: 1


    What about him constantly resizing his xterm and changing the font and size?

  118. oh boy! an Artiste! by foxyvoxy · · Score: 1

    blah blah blah....what problems this modern author faces! Those nasty pulldown menus always get in the way of my genius too.... It was really special how he tied that Hemmingway bit from the top and came full circle at the end...neato! Very professional! Quirky artiste types can hang out in abandonded buildings and discuss how font options crush their creative muse. I'd rather get some writing done.

  119. In defense of Microsoft Word (on Mac) by benwaggoner · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Okay, I'm at least a semi-pro writer (one published book, contributing editor for DV Magazine). And I think folks are completely missing how to use Word correctly, and its strengths. I'll be talking about Word for Mac v.X here. Even though Office XP is quite capable, I can't stand the way that they put icons in the left of the menus. Plus there's no better to write than with a laptop in the lap, leaning back in the Aeron, feet on the desk keeping the beat with NoFx.

    Back around '89 when I first got Word 4.0 on my Mac SE, I did procrastinate by too much formatting. But I got over it! The key is just to define your standard template. Get that template down, and you're writing object-oriented with styles. Understanding how to use styles and tabs is critical to efficient Word use. Instead of doing it spaghetti-code style with formatting applied directly to units of text, build the right design for each style, and religiously only use styles. If you need to change the style later, it's changed in all instances. Much, much easier.

    I NEVER mess with formatting when writing articles anymore, since my standard template has my styles all set up the way I want them.

    The real strength of Word is that it lets you deal with your content in a variety of modes. I actually write all my first drafts in Outline mode now, so I can see and tweak the overall structure. This means I don't need to write linearly, like a typewriter is required. I can write what I'm inspired to write that moment, skip back to get terms used later defined in the appropriate place, and that kind of thing. And since the outline headings are styles, formatting concerns just disappear into the background. And because, the structure is always visible, it's much easier to remember what you intended to do, and to pick up on structural errors in my original plan for the piece.

    When I'm editing, especially someone else's work, I use Normal mode. Thus I'm not distracted by where page breaks are and that kind of thing. Just the text.

    Page Layout mode I use rarely. Word isn't designed for any kind of detailed layout. Still, it's nice to see where the page breaks fall before going out to PDF or anything. But I'll just import into InDesign if I need fine control.

    So, big picture:

    Use Styles to make structure, not formatting, central.

    Use the right viewing mode for the stage of your project.

    1. Re:In defense of Microsoft Word (on Mac) by wfberg · · Score: 1

      The key is just to define your standard template. Get that template down, and you're writing object-oriented with styles. Understanding how to use styles and tabs is critical to efficient Word use. Instead of doing it spaghetti-code style with formatting applied directly to units of text, build the right design for each style, and religiously only use styles. If you need to change the style later, it's changed in all instances. Much, much easier.

      Not trolling; but this is exactly how I use LaTeX..
      Plus, unlike Word, LaTeX will easily handle very very large documents, and does the best job at footnotes.

      (On the other hand, a LaTeX distribution can be hell to set up, and importing figures (or rather exporting them to properly cropped EPS/PDF) can be a PITA).

      --
      SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    2. Re:In defense of Microsoft Word (on Mac) by sewagemaster · · Score: 1

      do you know any thing i can use to view latex under windows? or linux?

      i just installed lyx and i'm playing around with it. is there anything better you suggest?

    3. Re:In defense of Microsoft Word (on Mac) by wfberg · · Score: 1

      do you know any thing i can use to view latex under windows? or linux?

      i just installed lyx and i'm playing around with it. is there anything better you suggest?


      Learn some LaTeX codes, edit in vim, run latex or pdftex and view at leasure in gv or acrobat.

      Yes, it's a hassle, but worth it if you're writing scientific articles; maths and footnotes support is excellent.

      --
      SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    4. Re:In defense of Microsoft Word (on Mac) by Tripp+Lilley · · Score: 1
      Even though Office XP is quite capable, I can't stand the way that they put icons in the left of the menus.

      I offer this not to change your opinion of them, but perhaps to shed some light on the motivation. Those icons are a pedagogical device [Alan Cooper] to help you build a mental association between the menu action and the toolbar icon. This is the same purpose that putting the accelerator keys in the menus served in the original Mac UI (which continues to this day).

      Fundamentally, it's "training without cost" (or, at least, training with the sole cost of some temporarily used screen real estate), that routes around the problem of icons having to be innately meaningful (because the simple fact is that it's impossible for them to be so every time).

      It's training that doesn't punish casual users, because all of the actions are still accessible through the original command vector (the menu), but it rewards frequent users when they notice the match between a button on the toolbar and a frequently-used command, and then start using the button instead.

    5. Re:In defense of Microsoft Word (on Mac) by MacDaffy · · Score: 1

      I write screenplays. I started out with Microsoft Word (Macintosh) and a template and was relatively happy. As I got better at writing them, I found that the features of Word that I didn't use were getting in my way.

      Enter Final Draft 4.0!

      It had everything I needed to write my screenplays and very little else. And when I open those early efforts of mine under Jaguar (10.2.8)? Word 5.1a dutifully bounces up and gets to work. Ah, compatibility...

    6. Re:In defense of Microsoft Word (on Mac) by benwaggoner · · Score: 1

      I like your theory, but in practice I find them very distracting. I feel punished by them, even though I'm sure that wasn't the intent.

      I just think Office for Mac is so much cleaner than Office XP - it just fades away, and I just do my work. Much like Mac OS X v. Windows XP, in fact.

      Of course, I don't much care for abstract icons anyway. I'm a textual guy.

    7. Re:In defense of Microsoft Word (on Mac) by grassy_knoll · · Score: 1

      Not sure if platform makes a difference, but I've tried using styles on Word2k/Win2k. They do work as you suggest, but tend to break down if I email the document to someone else. IIRC, there was a way to include custom styles in a document but I never got it to work right ( i.e. without answering 20+ minutes of questions from my PHB ).

      These days if I have to write something at work I'll use gvim, then save the file with an extention of .doc . Word opens it right up, and no questions from the PHB's

    8. Re:In defense of Microsoft Word (on Mac) by Excarnate · · Score: 1

      Styles, structure, yes.

      But not MS Word, not on a Mac, not on a PC.

      At every company I've been at where they either had professional tech writers or were hiring them, Framemaker was used and if Word had been used, it was being phased out.

      I feel the pain of those who lose formatting on medium and long documents in MS Word--my wife shares her pain with me :-/

      I made her get Framemaker, now to make her use it. It does styles and structure right (and there is (was?) a Unix version).

      --
      .signature: No such file or directory
    9. Re:In defense of Microsoft Word (on Mac) by benwaggoner · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I've got FrameMaker as well. It's great for structured layout, but not really well suited for composition in the time I've spent with it.

    10. Re:In defense of Microsoft Word (on Mac) by Excarnate · · Score: 1


      How so?

      It lets you type as you want but strongly encourages you to structure documents correctly. I don't see anything that gets in the way of composition. I love everything about the versions of Framemaker I've used except the price, oh the price.

      --
      .signature: No such file or directory
  120. Repeated words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I found a disconcerting bug in my otherwise dependable word processor. It repeated words, on occasion..."

    It isn't uncommon to repeat words when you you type. I wouldn't be suprised if the author was at fault instead of the editor.

  121. Re:vi is for wussies. I use ed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always write a C program that generates the novel through complex algorithms. Then, to protect myself from any IP infrigement suits and DMCA violations, I rewrite the C program in ML and Haiku, and make T-shirts showing the source code.

  122. thumbwriting by perler · · Score: 1

    for writing, creative writing, i use the psion series 5 (or series 5MX meanwhile) - and can't imagine anything better - in the built in word processor you can turn off all scroll/toolbars, you can set up a really big font and, the killer reason: you can do thumb writing - you hold the handheld in both hands and can reach all keys with your left and right thumb. this way you can write in cars (not while driving! ;) ) in the train, lying in the bed - it's just perfect..

    when finished you sync the text with the pc directly into your favorite wordprocessor for spellchecking and formating.. ..and the device is small enough to take it with you all the time..

    PAT

  123. Wang word processor... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Was it a big Wang, or a little one?

    -1, Cheeky

  124. WYSIWYG considered Harmful by shadowpuppy · · Score: 1


    I've had this complaint about word processors for a while now. They tie the formating and the content too closely together. It's a symptom of the WYSIWIG mentality. It's excatly the same as hardcoded constants in programs. Once the formating is inplace it's almost imposible to change on a macroscopic level. It also make it harder to ensure that the formatting conventions are consistant.

    I haven't fully tried it but I understand "lyx" attempts to to break the WYSIWYG problem in a user friendlyish way. Docbook also helps but seems a bit too program documentation centric.

    Anyway once you decide to seperate formatting and content. Using a text editor rather than a word processor is a logical choice. I like vi but any decent editor should work.

  125. Hemingway was a pussy! by rodentia · · Score: 1

    emacs rulz.

    --
    illegitimii non ingravare
  126. I think YHBT by ru$ty · · Score: 1
    Either this guy's lying to get a higher profile as an author, being truthful and exposing himself as either terribly ignorant or a neoLuddite, or it's all total bullshit and an elaborate troll. 'Scuse me while I cook up a fake website and long, boring story about how I write textbooks:

    cat >textbook <<HEREIS
    1. Re:I think YHBT by NerveGas · · Score: 1


      An elaborate troll? With a name like "Charlie Dickinson"? Nah, it *couldn't* be. ; )

      steve

      --
      Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
  127. NoteTab Light by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    www.notetab.com
    A simple text and HTML editor that is very powerful, free and customizable. No frills if you do not want them.

  128. Crimson Editor by JudgeJackson · · Score: 1

    Crimson Editor is my favorite freeware editor. If only it came with source I would port it to linux.

    If you're on windows check it out: www.crimsoneditor.com

    It's simple and fast but also makes a great programmer's editor with syntax highlighting, block selection, etc. Did I mention that it's free?

  129. Writing + presentation = information by fendel · · Score: 1

    The key as the author points out is to totally forget about presentation when you're *trying* to focus on content.

    No; presentation matters. We've all had moments, probably daily, where we paused in the middle of writing an email because plain text wasn't going to convey what we meant. We want to emphasize a word or set something apart from the main body of the message. After several years of working in Word (and Wordalikes like AmiPro), I think in formatted text. If I had to write in Notepad, I'd have one hand tied behind my back.

    Granted, I'm not a novelist, I'm a tech writer. Formatting is important to what I do--for clarity, emphasis, visual appeal. This "write it first, then format it" idea may work for you... but not for me, and not for a lot of people.

    1. Re:Writing + presentation = information by Xentax · · Score: 1

      I didn't mean you should *always* separate content from presentation. Particularly in the short/casual context of things like daily email exchanges. Having said that, I disable Word as the Outlook email editor but still use basic formatting features when appropriate, like bold. (As you've probably noticed, I often use shortcuts *like this* rather than resorting to HTML markup, though).

      At the risk of making an overbroad assumption, the tech writer's MAIN job (in my experience) is to supply the presentation and formatting to largely-existing content. Obviously, yes, in that sort of situation the content and presentation have to be done simultaneously. But, because the whole point is to create that clarity, emphasis, and visual appeal, rather than to be creatively generating content, it's doable.

      Surely you don't try to generate complete documentation -- for a non-trivial amount of information -- including both the content AND the finalized presentation all at once? Obviously you might want to create some basic/high-level formatting -- paragraph breaks, headers, basic emphasis, but I would think you'd go back when you're done and worry about consistent presentation, additional formatting, etc. The first stage doesn't need Word, at least, not the full feature set.

      Xentax

      --
      You shouldn't verb words.
  130. Relating this to music... by FromWithin · · Score: 2, Informative

    Nice article

    I find that the tool that I'm using affects output even more so with music. My music sounds markedly different when I use a tracker rather than a sequencer, and also when I use one certain type of tracker or sequencer over another. The interface has a great deal to do with it, as does the ease of generating certain tonal effects in different programs. My personal sequencer of choice is Bars & Pipes on the Amiga. It's interface and features are like no other, and being pretty old it has no recording facilities so the emphasis is on pure music data. Consequently my best and most creative work has come from using that program.

    At the end of the day, the end result is what is most important, but the method you choose can greatly affect that result. Computers are just tools and the "latest and greatest" tool just might not bring out the best in the individual user.

  131. Dec Rainbow 100 and Muli-Mate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Best damn set up ever. 'nuff said.

  132. hmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i sure like vi, but often d2l and think I could have just hit delete twice and saved a keystroke...

  133. Arthur C. Clarke by UrGeek · · Score: 1

    I cannot help but think of the example of Arthur C. Clarke and I pray that I remember this correctly. He had delivered the final draft of a novel to his publisher and told them that it was his last, he is retired, there will be no more. They send back a Keypro "portable" computer with WordStar installed. These beasties would gave you a hernia at the airport and probably would even meet today's strict carry-on standards.

    So, he boots it up and plays with it. Tries out Wordstar. He is so jazzed that he rips out a whole frigging novel (over the course of a couple of days) and sends a draft to the publisher who is very pleasently "surprised", I think. Best investment they had ever made!

    It was about this time, I was trashing Wordstar to any and all would could hear. I hated the program with it's insane four button keystrokes. This story shut me up, well for a bit. I love the novels he has written since.

    1. Re:Arthur C. Clarke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      KAYpro perhaps? there is also a story of him refusing to pay for an expensive upgrade of WordStar because he said he could buy it for about 2 bucks in Malaysia.

  134. What about outlining? by tomem · · Score: 1

    I'm so old I can remember writing with a pad of paper and pencil, and doing multiple drafts! So there! Back then we composed computer programs with punch cards and later a line editor, if we were lucky. When I first used a screen editor (VMS EDT for me), it was an epiphany, and email came hot on its heels. Being able to delete and insert in place, and even cut and paste, while looking at a whole screenful (i.e. about a paragraph in those days) was a huge innovation.

    Those developments didn't make me look back fondly on pencil and pad, and WIMPy editors don't make me look back fondly on keyboard operated editors like vi. I agree that formatting is a pain in the butt when one is writing, but the presence of formatting tools doesn't require one to use them, and I have grown to appreciate an outlining tool for anything longer than a couple of pages.

    Of course one doesn't need Word for an outliner, but there is one in there, and formatting tools as well. So what's not to like? Why NOT use a single program to go from outlining to writing to formatting the final document?

    Apart from the fact that Word crashes too much and ruins imported graphics far too often, that is?

    --
    ThosEM
  135. TPE has all the control-key commands by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1


    Turbo-Powered Editor (do a search) has all the control-key commands listed in F1 help. The latest version of TPE is 3.4, but I can't find that online.

    It's terrible that this technology was lost whe GUI editors were made. Control-key commands save 15% in editing time, and they are easy to teach.

  136. Loving vi by Onan+The+Librarian · · Score: 1

    I wrote my book using vi. All the editing was done via Word, which was enough experience to teach me that: 1) Word sucked bad gas as a writer's tool and 2) Word rocked as an editing environment. My publisher utilized a template (DOT file) that greatly simplified the exchanges between me and my editors, so I have to grudgingly admit that Word has its uses. OTOH I could no way see myself using it to actually write my texts. Vi provides the tools I want as a writer, all from the keyboard, all very fast, all out of my way until I need them. And a little knowledge about regular expressions goes a long way in vi too...

    Emacs rocks too, but I learned vi first and better.

  137. Writing on Writing by cyranose · · Score: 1

    Well, I know a fair number of S.F. writers who use various methods. One of my friends does her first drafts with pencil and paper. Another uses every feature of word, including having special styles for the little dividers between scenes.

    Personally, I didn't find it hard to turn off the features of Word I don't want: grammar, clippy, auto-everything (except the em-dash --we need a key for that). All gone. I do use stylesheets, but more for outlining. Outlining in Word helps me quite a bit. Font selection? That's a bit silly. Pick one font and run with it. Courier 12 is the standard in my genre. Most publishers have clear guidelines that state as much.

    But the single biggest problem with word processors is a feature no one will ever disable -- the ability to edit as you type. This is why my friend uses pencil and paper and why some writers use VI or manual typewriters. Wordprocessors make it too easy to stop the flow of writing and waste time editing. Editing is important, but for many it's a distraction and should be left to the end.

    My own process tries to cope with editing as I go. At this point, I can start a day's writing without editing everything that came before (a process that sometimes left 10 minutes to write new stuff). But it's not easy. And it's often the case that if I were to just cut whole sections and rewrite them instead of editing a word here and there, they might come out better in the end.

    But that could just be me.

  138. It's never going to die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I was born, the vi vs. emacs war was raging.

    As I've grown, learned, gotten various degrees and worked in the industry, the vi vs. emacs war has raged on.

    When I'm wheezing my last breath in a nursing home, forgotten and alone, the vi vs. emacs war will be raging.

    When humankind has long since either extinguished itself, or converted itself into some form of pure energy, the vi vs. emacs war will STILL be raging.

    Only the death of the universe, in whatever form it happens, will stop the raging. *sob*

    P.S.: vi forever!

  139. Neal Stephenson came to much same conclusion by kfg · · Score: 1

    In his wonderful little essay "In the Beginning was the Command Line."

    http://artlung.com/smorgasborg/C_R_Y_P_T_O_N_O_M _I _C_O_N.shtml

    His choice was emacs, but the motivation was the same.

    I'm a formally trained touch typist who hates meta keys, so I go with vi.

    In any case the choice of text editor isn't a religious war item to me. Use Notepad for all I care. It works. The true religous war is Word Processor vs. Text editor.

    If you are truly a professional writer your job is simply to get words down on paper. Someone else, who is a specialist in the field, does the final formating. If you load up your document with formating codes the first thing they have to do is strip it all out anyway, so your work formating is wasted and it annoys the hell out of them.

    Who would have thunk that the command line, a text interface, in text mode, would be the ideal method for generating text?

    Every tool you could possibly want is inherent in the system. Any one time use tool you can imagine can be whipped up by a script. No bitching that your WP doesn't have a particular "function."

    What's more, it's fast as lightning. If you're getting paid by the word/page this is important.

    Just for giggles I just ran Gibbon's Decline and fall of the Roman Empire through wc. Over a quarter million words and a million and half charaters, as it turns out, and the response was nearly instantanious.

    Things like word count and spell checkers have now been included in Linux word processors, in part because these are now running under windows as well, where such functions are actually necessary if you wish to get any work done, but initially because there was a demand for them from people switching to Linux from Windows who simply didn't understand that such "functions" were already inherent in the system.

    Forgive me if I keep repeating that last phrase over and over again. Some mules take more than one whack with the 2x4 before you can get their attention.

    For the professional wordsmith there is nothing more powerful, and just plain joyous to use, than a plain text editor, at the command line, in text mode, under a Unix enviroment.

    You'd almost think it was written that way, huh?

    KFG

  140. ced/cygnus editor by hpavc · · Score: 1

    its all about when will cygnus editor be ported from the amiga to linux. then the editor text processing war can end. where is this leviathon to receive my keystokes and my hours of macro programming?

    --
    members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
    1. Re:ced/cygnus editor by arose · · Score: 1

      Where is this leviathon to receive my keystokes and my hours of macro programming?

      Here

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    2. Re:ced/cygnus editor by arose · · Score: 1

      Where is this leviathon to receive my keystokes and my hours of macro programming?

      Here I mean. Preview, pre...

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    3. Re:ced/cygnus editor by hpavc · · Score: 1

      i use emacs exclusively and love it so. but i refuse to program elisp. there has to be a easier way. i troll emacswiki thinking there is but there isnt. its just too hard to get something mature going as the mature examples are just too painful to try and follow.

      --
      members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
    4. Re:ced/cygnus editor by arose · · Score: 1

      You might be interested in An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp.

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
  141. VIndicated AT LAST!!!!! by MagikSlinger · · Score: 1

    You all laughed at me in the Computing Science lab! "Why are you using vi? Get with the times, at least use Emacs." But I preservered.

    I got my Amiga, and what editor did I end up using in favor of everything including for my word processing needs? Yup, a vi clone.

    When I got my PC a couple years ago, the happiest day for me was finding out ready and waiting for me was my beloved vi. Cleaned up, slicked up and VIMproved. I still love using vi. Mouse? Why would I want to slow down? Can you use Notepad's Search & Replace command to change a tab-delimited data file into properly formatted C code? I think NOT!

    VI will outlive them all! After the nuclear war, the cockroaches will rebuild society and use VI as their editor of choice. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

    --
    The bitter lessons of a veteran coder: http://bitterprogrammer.blogspot.com
  142. One word: Alphasmart by TrekCycling · · Score: 1

    As a fellow writer I recently retreated to an Alphasmart (http://www.alphasmart.com/). I'm much happier having the ability to JUST WRITE when that's all I want to do. No distractions.

    1. Re:One word: Alphasmart by iocat · · Score: 1

      I find that the keyboard is much more important than the screen or WP program. To that end i use a micro-swicth Silicon Graphics branded keyboard. Just can't type on a new-fangled keyboard! I'm always amazed at how much *faster* I type at the office than when I am using (my otherwise rad) ThinkPad.

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

  143. Personally, I use Quark by noewun · · Score: 1
    for any final formatting. Style sheets and master pages, man.

    I use Word for writing, but Word at its most minimal - all the gimgaws turned off, no toolbars, no silliness. If 10.3's version of Textedit is sufficiently advanced, I may use that. All I need is something that will save text.

    --
    I am a believer of momentum and curves.
  144. Wow..... by NerveGas · · Score: 1, Troll

    " Possibly only a blunt pencil lead would bear the vitality of words flowing from his fingertips."

    Yes, and perhaps only a 2x4 would bear the "vitality" of repeatedly striking your skull for such a moronic statement.

    Sure, you're a writer. You live for the flair. Maybe even for the drama. But puh-leez, get a grip on reality.

    steve

    --
    Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
  145. Nonsense. Mark Twain started using a typewriter... by dpbsmith · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...practically the day it was invented. Indeed, it can be argued that he started using one before it had been invented, or at least perfected.

    Jack London began using a typewriter the very instant he could afford one. The one he could afford wasn't very good--a balky Blickensderfer that required great effort to operate, was badly aligned, and only typed in uppercase--and he switched to a better one as soon as he could afford that.

    Here's a picture of the typewriter he used from 1904 on.

    "Creative people" latched onto the Macintosh within months of its introduction.

  146. Speedscript and Geos by Disoculated · · Score: 1
    I know I'm only adding to the list of outdated word processors here, but I really think I found writing the easiest on the C64's classic SpeedScript, and later on, GEOS's word processor. Moving up to Word 2.0 wasn't that big of a deal, but everything after that has been more of a pain in the ass than anything else.


    Sometimes, a program just doesn't need to be better than it currently is. I know that's an anathema to companies that make their money by capitalizing on a brand name and an upgrade cycle, but really, is there anything more than those simple programs that you need? It's not like printed text has really changed all that much (compared to other communication technology) in the last thousand years.

    1. Re:Speedscript and Geos by hswoolve · · Score: 1

      I'll speak up in praise of Speedscript as well. I used an SX-64 (think C-64 in a suitcase with a tiny screen) at home until 1993 and first WP5.1 (dos) an Original Mac (MacWrite) at the job. Since then I still prefer WP to MSWord. There's something about "reveal codes" that comforts me.

      The only problem I've ever found (and this applies to any electronic writing), is that once the text you've written has scrolled off the screen, it's possible to repeat a phrase or idea. Actually, this was pointed out to me by an agent. Apparently out of sight == out of mind.

  147. . . . and WordPad? by billeger · · Score: 1

    Certainly it is true that each writer must find his or her own best way to get those words to paper. The search for simplicity should include -- for those of us stuck in the Microosoft swamp -- WordPad. It's Spartan enough for any simplistic needs I can imagine and thoroughly transportable to any other word processor or page layout software.

    --
    Those who trade freedom for security will soon have neither.
  148. Ed, Man! by rhetland · · Score: 1

    I find it hard to believe nobody has linked to my favorite editor joke yet:

    Ed, man!

  149. Re:vi is good but... Joe is better by ChTom · · Score: 0, Troll

    Vi is was just too much like ed on a DecwriterIII serialed to a PDP11/70, joe is a dream come true for this cp/m z80 Wordstar fan! I've been writing software, web sites and databases ever since exclusively in Joe.

    OK, history lesson, anybody remember "ed"? Am I remembering correctly?? After so many years, us old guys get forgetful ... Bill's Vi was a bolt on for Ed so we could see a full screen of text, instead of just a few lines at a time, right?

  150. It's not just the writers, it's the industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Creative people seem to be among the most resistant to new technologies and/or meduims brought about by technology.

    Well, for creative writers, a big part of the problem is the industry. Publishers usually want to accept a manuscript that's 12 point courier on white paper with 1 inch margins. No bold or italics allowed, just underlines.

    The reason is that the copy editor who receives your 500 page manuscript, and who wants to review it to see if it's worthy of publication, makes her money with her eyes, so reading 500 page manuscripts daily would make her go blind.

    So she wants a hard coypy. She doesn't want to print a hard copy herself, because 500 pages times the hundreds of manuscripts she receives in any given week would quickly add up -- and plus there's an aura of privilege, why should SHE pay to give YOU the honor of being published?

    So when you have to output plain text anyway, why use a word processor? Especially Word or OO, which are going to do their best to translate special characters like curly quotes and long hyphens, which publishers don't want to see.

  151. Re:vi for writers (TextPad)? by whitefox · · Score: 1

    Just to add to the drivel, I use TextPad every day for everything from simple text files to Perl scripts to HTML coding and anything else the crippled NotePad can't do. Regular expression search-and-replace (even in files), sorting, blocking, spell checking, syntax highlighting, and a whole other list of included features. And it saves it all in plain old ASCII text files (DOS or UNIX formatted). Of course, it includes saving in UniCode but we won't go there.

  152. Technostalgia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here is a review from 1978 of the first word processor I ever used:

    http://www.swordpoint.com/electric.htm

    It was extremely simple, running on a TRS-80 Model I. My dad installed an aftermarket switch next to the shift key so that we could use lowercase letters. I regretted the day we switched over to Lazy Writer when we went to the Model III. My big problem with it is that it had "modes"--you typed in one mode and accessed commands in another mode, meaning you had at least 2 more keystrokes per command. Here is the programmer's website, with a late-70s ad for the software:

    http://www.explainamation.com/words/trash80.htm

    Word Perfect 5.1 for DOS was my next word processor. It was powerful, but DOS didn't allow multitasking. Also, the WP for Windows I used was lousy at pasting in graphics from other apps, like Lotus 123, so I switched to Word for Windows.

    Word is the standard in my industry--grantwriting and evaluation--and one pretty much has to use it because the US Govt posts its grant application materials, including forms and tables, as Word documents. I tried to switch to a host of Linux-based word processors, including StarOffice 6 Writer, but tables, graphics, and other minute formatting details of the docs get fouled up during conversion, which is unacceptable when you are passing drafts back and forth with other Word users. It is a powerful but obstimate word processor. You really have to learn its intracacies (like I have) through bitter experience in order to use it effectively (e.g., number pages properly in a complex, multisection document). I thought Word was terribly expensive until I looked at the price of Electric Pencil--$100 in the late 70s. That's only a little less than what you'd pay for Office in today's dollars.

    I write fiction as well as reports and grant applications and I find the power to reformat my documents to be a spur to a creativity rather than a barrier to it. Changing margins and fonts and using special features and graphics can energize the creative process rather than interfere with it.

  153. My first love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    When I was an undergrad, I started writing plays. I had the good fortune to be a physics major, to work part time for the department, and for the department to be early adopters of "pc" technology. We had Commodore PETs, 64s, Apples, and various Tandys, including my favorite, the TRS-80 Model III.

    No one else liked the Model III much, so it was mine, all mine! It had a word processor program, Scripsit, which seemed as natural for me to use as breathing. I don't remember a single command today, but I do remember that it seemed effortless to use. The plays I wrote on that system were performed on campus, won some contests, and even earn me a scholarship in an MFA program.

    Sadly, when I left to go to grad school, I had to leave the Model III behind... and nothing I've tried since has felt the same. Many times over the years, I've considered ebaying a Model III and running Scripsit again - I still have the old disks! - but what if the magic isn't there? Better perhaps, to keep my fond memories intact...

  154. Re:Umm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My lit teacher despised Hemingway, the best recommendation for an author I've found.

    Oh, really, this is boring. Go flame alt.fan.Hemingway and leave us alone.

  155. Since when are "artists" grammatically correct? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Artists have a vision of the end result of their art. As another person in this thread mentioned, writers often string words together not because they are grammatically correct, but because, on top of being grammatically correct, also invoke a certain emotion in the reader.

    Unfortunately the emotion that most "artists" usually evoke is confusion ;-)

  156. Three things that make vi even better by Dante · · Score: 1


    Parfor text formating
    AspellBecause I suck at spelling.

    --
    "think of it as evolution in action"
    1. Re:Three things that make vi even better by Dante · · Score: 1

      And I can't count either. I forgot to add latex. :)

      --
      "think of it as evolution in action"
  157. User Interface by sjames · · Score: 1

    What this all amounts to is user interface and software design. WYSIWYG is a flop as a UI paradigm for many applications. It makes the simple things easy for the absolute beginner, and then gets in their way for the rest of their career.

    Part of the problem is with GUI and WYSIWYG itself. It's a great way to organize different tasks in the workspace, and some even like it to visualize files and folders. It's a must for photo editing. However, it's a lousy way to enter text, and constantly switching back and forth between keyboard and mouse is little better.

    Menus aren't half bad for obscure or little used features, but shouldn't require a contortionist or a woodpecker (let's see, down, down, down, down, left, down, down,down,return) to operate effectivly with a keyboard.

    the alternative seems to be a flat 'control surface' with all of the simplicity of a nuclear plant console.

    Since that didn't work so well, enter the user customizable controls so that it takes 3 weeks to get things where you want them and it bears no resemblance to anyone else's setup. Talk a tech support nightmare, not to mention trying to borrow someone else's computer for a moment. To make matters worse, now, most of the UI is in a global scope so that bugs rise exponentially with lines of code rather than near linearly.

    On the other hand, there's interfaces like VI. It can be confusing at first, especially for beginners who aren't sure what mode really means. They get a bit lost as to why sometimes backspace does what they expect, and other times not. It's not intuitive and it's not meant to be.

    However, for the price of feeling uncomfortable for a few days, it provides a fast and efficient interface that will serve the user well for the rest of their career. Remember that vi was specifically designed to be fast, even over a limited bandwidth such as a 300 baud modem or fingers on a keyboard. A small bit of learning to get over the lack of intuitiveness is handsomely rewarded. Soon enough, the finger motions become automatic and the text bends and changes at the author's whim. Switching keyboard to mouse, clicking down menus never gets that fast and never feels that easy, no matter how much you use it.

    If you need to do page layouts, vi is the wrong tool. We have other tools for that like latex. At the same time, for entering text, latex doesn't even pretend to be the right tool. Things like Office manage to nearly always be the wrong tool if productivity matters.

  158. Low tech writing implements by ortholattice · · Score: 2, Informative
    I use pens and pencils a lot for marking things up, making notes, and even scribbling rought drafts when I'm inspired away from a computer. No one seems to discuss this much, but anyway here are my personal preferences.

    I've tried dozens of different kinds of pens over my lifetime, and the one that I've settled on and now insist on is the inexpensive Pilot EasyTouch Medium Point ball-point (the Fine Point is good too, but not quite as smooth). It is the smoothest writing instrument I've found, whether ball-point, roller-ball, gel, fountain pen, or whatever. And it always just seems to work; it doesn't dry on me and require those scribbles to get the ink flowing after several days of non-use, like other ball-points. Strangely it doesn't seem to be a standard stock item and I have to special order it from Staples. The blue color seems slightly smoother than red or black, but that may be subjective.

    As for pencils, for years I used to use a Pentel P205 .5mm, but recently I've come to prefer the Staedtler 9505 .5mm. An advantage is that it doesn't have that frustrating slippage in the last 1/4" of lead that you end up throwing away. I also like a very soft lead (2B) because it writes dark with little effort. But that's just me - it takes getting used to because the lead is so fragile, and other people sometimes get frustrated when I lend it to them, breaking the lead over and over because they're used to pressing hard.

  159. OS X and Virtual PC and WordPerfect 5.1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had a similar problem when writing. I decided to bring a old Beige G3 Mac back to life and installed 1) Virtual PC; 2) DOS and 3) WordPerfect 5.1; the last a pirated copy since versions on Ebay were selling for over $50. I then went to full screen mode and have a working simulation of an IBM PC in 1989. Unplug the mouse, and the modern distractions (IM, Web, Email) are gone. I set up a WebDAV server as a shared drive in Virtual PC, so I can access the documents via my ibook and do editing and formatting there. I've found WP 5.1 much easier to edit, however; there is something to be said for white text on a blue background.

  160. While we're on the subject... by mrphrtq · · Score: 1

    I love vi dearly for all my sysadmin-related activities, but I've found it to be a little cumbersome for writing emails and other paragraph-formatted text. With a lot of word processors, you can type a paragraph, go back to the beginning of the paragraph and add a sentence, and the WP will push the existing text along without hosing up the line breaks. How can you make vi more...uh...word-processory?

    --

    "Life has improved immeasurably since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously." - Hunter S. Thompson
    1. Re:While we're on the subject... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      :set lbr

  161. BBEdit by repetty · · Score: 1

    I sometimes compose in BBEdit just for its simplicity and speed. Later, I format the document in a word processor (OpenOffice.org for the last year).

    I, too, hate Word for all the same reasons that the author mentioned and I hate OpenOffice.org for mimicing all of Word's flaws.

    There's something nice about writing in a text editor. You don't get distracted by all the little adjustments available in word processors. You just write.

    That's what it's all about, anyway.

    --Richard

    PS: I ALWAYS turn off live spellchecking.

  162. Better than vi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why use vi when there's ed!

  163. Neil Gaiman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Neil Gaiman wrote American Gods by hand. Now that's oldschool ;)

    "With American Gods, it was the first time that I had actually gone, okay here's a blank book--one of these big leather-bound black sketch books; some store was clearing them out, had a major sale on these big sketch books, 500 pages. So I bought a bunch of them, and sat down and wrote the words "American Gods" with a fountain pen on page one and turned it over and started to write. That was a very, very conscious thing. I really wanted a second draft. It's my experience with computers that they do not give you a second draft.
    Computers give you an ongoing, ever-improving first draft, but there is no discontinuity there. I wanted that, so I wrote the book by hand, and after every few chapters I would stop and type up what I had done so far."

  164. The real answer is... by luckyguesser · · Score: 0, Troll

    EditPlus! I'm using EditPlus v2.11 at work as a student programmer at my school. There are many people around me who work in vi, but I have never felt even remotely motivated to learn the commands for that program. EditPlus is like a hyped-up notepad, with line numbers, etc... all the good functions of a word processor (like ease of use) without all the annoying MS crap.

    --


    The power of Christ compiles you.
    A Random Blog
  165. The writer's choice by charlie · · Score: 1
    I'm going to second the vote for vi -- although I use Vim rather than a traditional vi.

    I write for a living. I sell novels. The lifespan of a novel is over a decade -- if it's a successful one, several decades. I don't dare use proprietary storage formats that may become inaccessible in five or ten years: plain text with embedded markup is essential. And markup in a simple macro format I can roll my own parser for if I need to -- I currently use POD format as it's rich enough for writing novels as well as Perl documentation.

    But I still have to keep a copy of Microsoft Word to hand. Because the publishers I deal with want an electronic copy for their typesetters these days, and they expect everyone to use Word, despite its gross inadequacies as a novelist's tool (untameable Autocorrect, insane file-format lock-in, stupid reliance on mouse over keyboard, and all).

  166. More technical pushes for simplicity by Lulu+of+the+Lotus-Ea · · Score: 3, Insightful
    When I wrote my Ph.D., I used the still quite excellent WordPerfect 5.1, for the most part. However, for better or worse (mostly for worse), I did wind up finishing it in WordPerfect for Windows (I think 6.1). At least the file formats were compatible, but in retrospect I should have stuck with the text screen (unfortunately, I recall that OS/2 actually ran the Windows version a bit better than the DOS one at the time though). FWIW, you can read that at: David Mertz Disseration, WordPerfect version; or since WP compatibility isn't so widespread nowadays: PDF page style and PDF book style. Back in those days, I wrote about PoMo philosophy and the like.

    Flash forward a few years. Now I am a writer about computer programming. And mostly because of that transition, I absolutely cannot stand to write anything other than plain text. Well, almost plain text, I have my own little variant called "smart ASCII", which uses just a few of the conventions that email and Usenet often use: *bold*, -itals-, and so on.

    In fact, I have written hundreds of articles, tutorials, and the like about programming (for well-known publishers like IBM, Intel, O'Reilly, etc.), all in plain text. My book Text Processing in Python is written the same way.

    Well... once in a while I am compelled to use something awful like MS-Word--or something that exports to it, like AppleWorks or OpenOffice--but I hate doing that. It is tools that convert my smart ASCII into formats like HTML, XML, LaTeX, PDF, and so on. But those tools come at the end of the process. After I put the words down, then is the time to worry about niggly details like fonts, layouts, and so on... all in a way that is far more consistent than a wordprocessor is likely to produce. My book, for example, has been praised as particularly attractive typographically... I did all the preparation myself, by eschewing all the GUI nonsense that gets in the way during writing. David Mertz

  167. You're missing the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The parent author recommended notepad precisely because it does NOT have these stupidly complicated features that a writer will not know how to use anyway.

    Hell, just quitting vi is a chore that can't be done by someone unfamiliar with the software.

    1. Re:You're missing the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you know a writer wouldn't want or know how to use these features? I'm a writer and know how to use vi quite well. I wouldn't want to use anything else: email, code, plays, dissertations, doesn't matter.

    2. Re:You're missing the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you know a writer wouldn't want or know how to use these features? I'm a writer and know how to use vi quite well. I wouldn't want to use anything else: email, code, plays, dissertations, doesn't matter.

      You are probably also a linux geek, which removes you from the equation.

  168. Simplicity is cool, but vi is too simple by doom · · Score: 1
    I can see why you'd prefer a simple program that doesn't get in the way, but classic vi really is too simple for serious work. It doesn't, for example, do automatic saves as you go, so a crash between saves is more likely to lose work.

    I'm pretty sure that vim has features like that these days, and certainly emacs has had them for ages. (If you're interested in trying emacs, the first thing you should do after running it is ESC-x viper-mode to put it into a vi-emulator).

    Yes, emacs has a lot of whizzy features that some like to call "bloat", but it's actually not that heavy-weight a program by todays standards, and most of the features are off by default. You can turn off more of them by adding some lines to your .emacs file:

    ;Turn off GUI nonsense
    (scroll-bar-mode -1)
    (menu-bar-mode -1)
    (tool-bar-mode -1)

    And this is probably recommended for writers:

    ;For displaying Latin-1 (ISO 8859) characters
    (standard-display-european 1);
  169. Weird, if reassurring by Angst+Badger · · Score: 1

    I do all of my literary writing in either an old shareware DOS text editor called QEdit (later renamed TSE Jr. and still available), or in a freeware Apple II "word processor" called AppleWriter II (which I nowadays run in an emulator, mainly for ease of transferring the files to a PC later).

    It's not that I don't like modern word processors or that I don't use them extensively -- I do -- but for actual creative writing, the ambience and simplicity of tools I've been using for upwards of twenty years suits me fine. (I typically do later drafts in MS Word or, increasingly, OpenOffice.org.) This may be the result of the same instinct that has me logging far more time playing Galaga in MAME than I do playing GTA: Vice City.

    --
    Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
  170. vi "view"? by tunesmith · · Score: 1

    I really like writing in vi also, but my problem is that I also want to be able to view my writing (based for the web) in html or pdf, etc. In the past my solution was to write in LaTeX, because the formatting commands didn't take up a lot of room compared to the text itself. But right now the thought of doing that exhausts me. What I really want is something where I can make a style template that is then invisible, and then continue to write in vi. Is there a way to do this? Maybe one of the LaTeX wysiwig editors has a vi mode where you can do all the typing and editing with vi/vim commands?

    --
    skkkoooonnnggggkkk ptui
  171. The tools of the writer's trade. by Elf+Sternberg · · Score: 1

    Okay, I use Emacs. I write in raw text, double-space paragraphs, nothing particularly weird. If I want some formating, some emphasis, I use LaTeX macros in-line. I have a pair of python scripts that convert what I've written in for the past eight years into either LaTeX or HTML. The "toHTML" version is pluggable as a CGI script, so I can preview what my work looks like no the web, while a makefile drives the toLaTeX script to render PDFs. The LaTeX framework I use is sffms (the Science Fiction and Fantasy Manuscript LaTeX toolkit). The only "oddity" is that I've installed wordcount.el. I do my outlines in emacs outline mode. The scripts know how to deal with that.

    Other useful tools:

    Aspell for a spelling engine. It's much better than Ispell. Rhyme, Style, Diction, and WordNet all make the writer's life simple.

    And the best thing about plain text: a remote CVS repository for backups, history, and logs!

    --
    If you're so smart, why aren't you naked?
  172. K5 by a20vertigo · · Score: 1

    Wow... Kuro5hin people are always saying that K5 is becoming more and more like /. - now K5 is getting it's revenge on Slashdot!

    --
    No matter where you go, there you are; even before you arrive.
  173. Re:vi is good but... Joe is better by tachyonflow · · Score: 1
    OK, history lesson, anybody remember "ed"? Am I remembering correctly?? After so many years, us old guys get forgetful ... Bill's Vi was a bolt on for Ed so we could see a full screen of text, instead of just a few lines at a time, right?
    Ed is the standard. Text editor.
  174. What's wrong with Word with long documents? by benwaggoner · · Score: 1

    I've often heard people complain about Word with long documents, but I've never had any issues with them myself (up to about 120 pages, personally). How long is "long?"

    As for footnotes, even back in 1992, Word + EndNote did my thesis in APA style perfectly without breaking a sweat. HUGE time saver compared to what other folks had to go through.

    I've never used, or even seen LaTeX? Any good versions for Mac OS X I should check out?

    1. Re:What's wrong with Word with long documents? by jacrawf · · Score: 1

      Give TeXShop a spin. It's pretty spiffy, and also fairly easy to install. TeX (say it like "tech") is pretty powerful and was written for the needs of scientists more than anything, but it's great for documents where you value structure and content over presentation. It lets you focus almost purely on your content, and then renders it in a very readable fashion for consumption.

    2. Re:What's wrong with Word with long documents? by wfberg · · Score: 1

      I've often heard people complain about Word with long documents, but I've never had any issues with them myself (up to about 120 pages, personally). How long is "long?"

      I've seen documents as short as 50 pages go completely FUBAR; this seems to be correlated strongly with using any graphical objects - if you're doing all of your lay outs and figures right at the end you're safer.

      As for footnotes, even back in 1992, Word + EndNote did my thesis in APA style perfectly without breaking a sweat. HUGE time saver compared to what other folks had to go through.

      For people without EndNote, it's still that bad ;-)

      I've never used, or even seen LaTeX? Any good versions for Mac OS X I should check out?

      click here

      --
      SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    3. Re:What's wrong with Word with long documents? by benwaggoner · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I don't embed a lot of graphics into my word documents. I'm normally just creating text, and separate graphical files, and the layout person takes it from there.

      EndNote is really awesome. Is there any reason people don't get it if they need it? They just don't know it's out there? Really, it was roughly perfect over a decade ago.

    4. Re:What's wrong with Word with long documents? by wfberg · · Score: 1

      EndNote is really awesome. Is there any reason people don't get it if they need it? They just don't know it's out there? Really, it was roughly perfect over a decade ago.

      Most people don't know about it (even if it's installed on the computer right there in front of their noses on the university's campus license) and it does something Word itself is supposed to be able to do, so many don't think to look for it. At a full retail price of $299.95, some people prefer to be reamed by the devil they know than the devil they don't.

      --
      SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    5. Re:What's wrong with Word with long documents? by BenjyD · · Score: 1

      I've seen many, many people lose work to Word (97/2000) corrupting documents so they won't save properly. Mainly 50-80 page reports with many diagrams and tables, and generally 30 minutes before the deadline.
      MS clearly don't test their products well enough.

  175. What is it with the //e? by melatonin · · Score: 1
    My first computer was a //e. It served our family daily from 1984 to 1992. And it taught me computer programming, starting my career...

    But there's something remarkably adept about this computer that makes it so functional. We originally used AppleWorks on it, which was a typical Works suite. Then we used MultiScribe, which was a MacWrite clone (fonts that printed beautifully to an Apple ImageWriter). Then we bought PublishIt! 2 for the thing that gave us desktop publishing. And then we were pushing it; PublishIt! 2 was slow.

    But I had to hook up my //e the other day to check some serial hardware, and while I was at it I took a trip down memory lane. Things that I thought were slow 10 years ago were pretty damn fast by today's standards! A 1 MHz //e, fast! To launch MultiScribe, you had to startup the //e with the floppy in the drive, wait for it to ask you to flip the floppy over (insert disk 2), and then hit return for it to continue. I used to think that took forever. It turns out that's faster than OS X booting up on my G4, and I think faster than Illustrator 10 or Photoshop starting up. And honestly, nobody uses the features that Microsoft Word has over the features that MultiScribe has.

    For those who aren't familiar, the //e's spec'd as (mine's an original, but the later ones shipped as) 128 K of RAM at 1 MHz. You can expand the RAM quite a bit, add a hard drive, add networking, add a Postscript Laserwriter, and honestly expand anything you can think of (that's what the 'e' stands for), but they're generally expected to be used as I said, and perhaps with a mouse. BTW, the //e had 15 character file names with Macintosh-style type and creator meta-data (no 3-character extensions like DOS to determine file types); it was quite a shock when my Dad bought a powerful 8 MHz 286 for his business and it was so... archaic :)

    We can do a whole lot more work with a whole lot less CPU power; the //e is a testimony to that. Compare the original Palms to the Windows CE devices. The first Palms were great! They were instant sellers because they served a useful purpose; not because they had a bazillion features. OS X is nice and all, but most of the CPU time and RAM isn't spent doing much. I'm looking at getting more RAM (I have 768, I'm thinking of popping in a 512MB dimm) just because I do hit the max every so often. Software developers have grown accustomed to growing hardware requirements, and it's really a shame.

    When my older brother did CS in University, his computer lab consisted of 16 MHz Sun workstations and he did quite a bit of assembly programming over a few courses. He had to write controller software for a robot arm in assembly. When I did computer science at a different University (I started in 96), we had 300 MHz UltraSparcs, did most of our stuff in C, and I had one course in assembly where we didn't actually execute the code on hardware. The new students to CS do everything in Java; compare that (garbage collection) to programming a robot arm in assembly. (FYI, I'm all for garbage collection as a programming practice, but they don't teach you calculus in university because it's useful. They teach it to you because it makes your brain hurt).

    While it's absolutely fantastic that Apple went from the Copland/Gershwin route to Mach/BSD, they did lose a bit in the process; one of the features of Copland's NuKernel was that it ran within 1 MB of RAM. Holy crap. That's what happens when you write stuff from scratch and start over. Multics is generally considered a failure but it did actually ship. Most people don't know what it was, and just think "it was too complex to even exist." Here's a quick rundown of its features,

    • Convenient remote terminal use
    • A wide range of system configurations, changeable without system or user program reorganization
    • Contin
    --
    Moderators should have to take a reading comprehension test.
  176. On other platforms. . . by bplipschitz · · Score: 1

    DeScribe was [and still is, IMO] one of the best 'all-around' word processors around. Small footprint, just enough bells and whistles, does everything you need it to, runs on Win 3.1, Win95, OS/2, and was *cheap*.

    Why doesn't somebody port *that* to Unix? It's a helluva lot better than AbiWord!!

  177. Re:vi for writers? YES! - LaTeX by sewagemaster · · Score: 1

    >>I actually use pdflatex which generates nice pdf files.

    when you use pdflatex, or ps2pdf, or anything under linux to make pdf files, do you ever have problems embedding fonts? for some reason it never seems to look nice under pdf.. as in smooth fonts, etc. of course printing it never has that problem...

  178. People do not use Help by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    There you go. The one obvious truth that you missed. Just like other features that people never use, what good is Help if people will not use it?

    I can't even blame people for not using Help. Sure it seems it might have actually led to a solution in this case, but in about 80% of the cases I try help it's the most unproductive 30 minutes of my day until I figure out that what I really wanted to do is not spelled out by help.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  179. So what do you get... by siskbc · · Score: 1
    ...when you multiply potential, mass, acceleration, the speed of light, and entropy?

    ???=E*m*a*c*S. The units work out to Joules^2*Newtons/(Coulomb*Kelvin).

    Yeah, I don't think that really means much.

    --

    -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

  180. Bug in BeOS word processor, or dumb user? by zapp · · Score: 1

    I found a disconcerting bug in my otherwise
    dependable word processor. It repeated words, on
    occasion, in the text


    Could it be that over all those years you'd been
    been typing those doubles without realizing it?
    It is one of the the most common writing errors to
    to make.

    Plus it's highly unlikely that a word processor would have a bug like this, concidering the way text is usually stored internally.

    --
    no comment
  181. A beautiful composition environment by The+Revolutionary · · Score: 1

    vim on a 80x25 character terminal.
    dict for word selection.
    ispell for spell checking.
    latex for typesetting.

    I just don't know that we've come very far with word processing in the past 10 or even 20 years. Looking at Microsoft Word, for example, why is it that we need those many menus of complex and technical features? If someone were to ask me, without looking, what sort of features these are, I wouldn't even be able to imagine what they might be. What more could Microsoft Word possibly provide that we don't have in the above four tools?

    Computers were supposed to make our lives easier, not create more tedious tasks for us to perform.

    With the above four tools, anyone, from a grade school student to a professional writer can create high quality documents ready for printing. All of these tools are freely available and will run on even a i386 machine.

    I will take a document typeset with LaTeX to one "formatted" with Microsoft Word, anyday.

    Look at how long these tools (or some near ancestor of) have been available.

    Microsoft Word is an exercise in tedium. Unfortunately I need to be able to produce documents compatible with its .doc format.

    What's really so very sad is that even in our public school systems Word is sold on the students as being almost necessary for quality composition these days.

  182. OTOH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    What the article really suggests is that creative people are idiosyncratic about their choice of tools; theres no magic formula - just use what works for you. Pen and paper is woefully inefficient in some regards for example, but many writers aren't going to switch now.

    The interesting question is not that an old-school writer and computer user (Apple II? 1999!) uses vi, but rather, in fifteen years time will a new breed of writers be ebaying copies of OfficeXP because new tools are not conducive to their creative processes?

  183. Confidence... and a program layout idea by Angram · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I regularly have to "fix" all sorts of "problems" for friends and family, whether over the phone or with them looking over my shoulder - they aren't "stupid" or "lazy", they just lack confidence. All of them have experience hitting some key or other and having the computer crash (Windows ME was a huge confidence-crusher all-around). They've learned that doing the "wrong" thing, which is usually just hitting the wrong key or the wrong menu item, destroys what they've done or activates something they don't want and don't know how to get rid of (typically don't know what it is or how it got there). My advice has always been "if you don't know, ask me instead of poking around" - while it may disparage learning and waste my time, it's better than the alternative (from over-the-phone rants about technology to completely reformatting hard drives).

    They aren't stupid or lazy - they lack confidence. "Help" menus may have gotten considerably better over the years (so I now tell people to try them first), but they gave up on them years ago, when they lacked useful (step-by-step) information and were difficult to navigate.

    What's needed is a set of evolving program layouts - from "Minimal" to "Full" (essentially Novice to Expert), with a simple search tool to allow users to find features when they are first needed and then allow users add them to the toolbars and menus (perhaps leaving them in some sort of "highlighted" mode for the first week or so).

    --

    GL
  184. Can't generalize by asbestos_lead · · Score: 1
    I went to school at the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee to get a graphic design degree. As I worked my way through all the required classes, there are these major groups of creative types:

    There are the traditionalists - those who stick to painting, drawing and sculpture The pragmatists - best tool for the job. Technophiles - use a computer unless forced to do otherwise.

    Of course, everyone is somewhere between the three, but those are the major groups.

    I try to be pragmatic, though I used to be a hardcore technophile. Sketching general ideas with a pencil on paper is faster than sitting down in front of Adobe Illustrator.

    It's much easier and less time consuming to get a clean final piece using digital media.

    My older coworkers used to paint layouts with airbrushes and frisket (mask). They'll never go back because of "Undo".

    --
    Sig Applied For
  185. Re:vi for writers (TextPad)? by Un+pobre+guey · · Score: 1

    How anyone could want to use vi or emacs over TextPad is beyond me. Even NEdit doesn't cut it next to TextPad.

  186. So I'm not the only one... by Cappy+Red · · Score: 1

    Most of my writing I start in BBEdit. I copy into Appleworks to add bolding and italics, formatting, and for printing.

    Considering giving TextEdit more of a try though...

    *honks*

    --
    This is my sig. It's prescription, I swear. I need it for reading things... on the other side of things
  187. As for producing real, useable output, by bplipschitz · · Score: 1

    I prefer LyX. I've done two of my wife's theses with it, and really like the simple interface, the 'programability', and especially the quality of the output.

  188. Nobody is forcing you to use the features by Nino+the+Mind+Boggle · · Score: 1

    I guess I don't get the problem. Sure, Word is loaded with a ton of features, and most people use maybe 10% of them at the most. But I've written tons of stuff using Word, a bit with FrameMaker, and before that, WordPerfect, and before that, a portable Smith-Corona that hummed and clunked with every keystroke. But whatever tool I was using to write, I never felt compelled to spend time twiddling with the formatting and trying to decide which font to use.

    Just sit down, open a blank document and start writing, dammit. If you can't keep your hands off the Format menu and focus on your job, then YOU have a problem, not the program you use.

    And guess what. You can turn off the AutoCorrect and AutoFormat features if they piss you off. Geez, even when Clippy was first introduced, it took me about 30 seconds to figure out how to turn him off, too.

    If someone told me I had to write my next project using Notepad, I'd do it. If I had to do it with vi, I might bitch a bit, because as others have noted, vi is a bitch to learn, but then I'd do the job. Use the tool you need to use.

    --
    ------ "Darn floor. Big bite." (Koko the gorilla's best attempt at explaining the experience of an earthquake.)
  189. Vim is great, but quirky. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    Vim is great for keyboard re-configuration. However, it has a quirky way of operating that would be difficult to teach, and would apparently never operate correctly with Control-key editing commands.

  190. The Leo Programmer's Outliner and Editor by heydan · · Score: 1

    My favorite editor for both computer source code and word processing documents is the free, open-source, Python-powered Leo programmer's outliner and editor: http://leo.sourceforge.net/

    Leo lets you work with outlines and it can associate any portion of the outline with a flat file for processing by compilers or typesetters like LaTeX. So for word processing in particular, I like to write inside a Leo outline using LaTeX formatting codes and then export and process the final result using LaTeX to create a PDF.

  191. "A writer KNOWS..." by crucini · · Score: 1

    But one of the problems Dickinson mentioned in the article was a bunch of quotation marks magically appearing in the wrong font. It would take great stoicism to ignore this and keep writing, even though you know the audience will never see that.

  192. Yeahwrite by richieb · · Score: 1
    I'm a happy user of Emacs. But for my wife and kids I had set up YeahWrite. It's a shareware windows program, which is very simple to use for most writing assigments. My kids have been using it since first grade.

    My son, who's now in high school, stopped using Word and installed YeahWrite (there is free-as-in-beer version) and uses that for homework.

    I think I'll teach him LaTex next, so that he will be ready for college.

    --
    ...richie - It is a good day to code.
  193. Command Line Mind by zeasier · · Score: 1

    Some people are predisposed to use command line tools like Vi. These are the same people who correct everyone on spelling and grammar. They easily retain factual information like the capital of this or that etc. These kinds of people are also predisposed to writing so the conclusions of the above article's author is not surprising.

    Personally I have a hard time remembering arbitrary commands and facts. Unless I can visualize something, can fit it into some relationship, or have some emotional connection to a bit of information; chances are it won't make it past my short short term memory. Being a web programmer I need to have access to reference material at all times. There are common functions that I have looked up at least a hundred times.

    I know people who are severely dyslexic who I went to school with. These people would be hard pressed to do anything on a computer outside of a GUI. On that note I recommend AbiWord to any one who lacks command line mind.

    Although, it would be nice if AbiWord had a grammar checker and a more durable spell checker. Spelling and grammar should be an electronic formating standard. We should code spelling and grammar formating software as close to the current implementation of language as we can an then accept new the electronic implementation as correct grammar. That way we don't have to worry about spelling and grammar anymore. If our word processor validates our writings than that's the final word on their correctness.

    Grammar is just a means of repressing the vernacular. Why not give the task the heartless machine? That would be preferable to the army sadists we have now.

  194. wpdos.org (was re:WordPerfect...5.1) by David+Hume · · Score: 1


    You might want to check out WordPerfect for DOS Updated (also found at http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/).

  195. Or, monitor off, revise later by Macrobat · · Score: 1

    I don't know how many other people do this, but when I want to just "let the words flow" while I'm at the computer, I shut off the monitor. It becomes too hard to edit/second-guess myself, so I can get on with the task of writing. Then I have a good chunk of text all ready to slice, dice and spell-correct to my heart's content when the monitor comes back on.

    --
    "Hardly used" will not fetch you a better price for your brain.
  196. what about voice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm a writer who embraces word proccessing for exactly that- proccessing my words. For input I have an Olympus digital voice recorder, and Dragon Naturally Speaking for speach to text editing. I don't write on a computer-it's completely unnatural- I proccess words. Frankly, the only natural way for most people to get thoughts out of their brain and into the world is to say them.

  197. TECo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Text Editor and Corrector

    Used it on a Teletype terminal, 1 inch paper tape. Hooked up to a DEC PDP 10. Used it to process, concatenate, and reduce data files to spiffy SAS plots. The flat file database was something called 1022, no idea who published it. Overnight, of course, so no mistakes were allowable.

    Had to think before typing.

    1. Re:TECo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrote TECO macros to read hex dumps of images (64 pixels square) and render as crude ASCII graphics.

      Learned vi circa 1984 and forgot just about every TECO command except the oft-used "10LT".

  198. Good choice by dh003i · · Score: 1

    Yep, Vi is definately the right choice for typing up documents initially (at least, if they don't need any funny characters). It is not easy to use at first, but it does provide exceptional power and speed once you understand how it works (most importantly, the difference between command mode and text-entry mode). After a couple of days to a couple of weeks of using Vi, you will be able to really fly through document creation and editing.

    On the other hand, if you need any funny characters or formatting, you'll need more than Vi. Of course, you should start out with Vi, but then you'll need something else. Like LyX, which is a WYSIWYW docuemnt-processor. It allows the document-creator to avoid the details of formatting. You could create a document in Vi, paste it into Lyx, and then use LyX to format it.

    Of course, you'd be best off if you knew how to use LaTeX (LyX is just a front-end for LaTeX). Then you could use LaTeX as you were writing in Vi.

    1. Re:Good choice by nagora · · Score: 1
      Of course, you'd be best off if you knew how to use LaTeX

      You'd be even better off dumping LaTeX and using plain TeX which is much, much, much more flexible and easier to get started with. I generally combine TeX and Emacs but vi would do too.

      TWW

      --
      "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
  199. vi is feature bloated !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I use:

    cat >file

    Works every time. No distractions.

  200. ed by Detritus · · Score: 1

    It's the only editor that is guaranteed to be present on a UNIX system. Now that I wrote that, someone will post a counterexample. I've used old systems that predated vi, they always had /bin/ed.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  201. More than a little scary... by TygerFish · · Score: 1

    It's more than a little scary to see that this particular piece of information, 'Sunday! Sunday! Sunday!', The basis of an ad for a monster truck event has enjoyed such enormous longevity.

    It must be one of the most successful pieces of advertising copy *ever* written. More memorable than, 'I can't believe I ate the whole thing,' or, 'Where's the beef?!'

    --
    To mail me, remove the 'mailno' from my email addy.
    "Yeah. It smells, too..."
  202. Writing... by softspokenrevolution · · Score: 1

    Aren't we all writers, christ, it seems that everyone who's ever put pen to paper fancies themselves a writer. I fancy myself a pedant, and that's really what matters, honesty.

    Personally, I write with anything on hand, at times this has included crayons and placemats, for the most part it is either mechnical pencils (or pen) in some notebook (any notebook) or on computer. The thing is that my handwriting is terrible, so I try to restrict myself to the computer only.

    Being that I am not a tech-geek, I use Windows and Word works just fine, just like every other writing progam that has ever existed since the beginning of time, you type something in on the keyboard and it outputs it on the screen.

    Sure, sometimes I have problems with the automatic formatting, but it is easily turned off, and if I really want to spell check and edit a document I just print it out and go over it, because no matter what some people might say, it's easier that way.

  203. So he's a Luddite... big deal... by Serapth · · Score: 1

    Really... how this article got on slashdot beats the hell out of me. I hate to tell the author but perhaps his biggest problem is more a matter of age then anything. Authors of the digital generation are comfortible with word processors as much as anything... as are many authors from the pre-digital generation for that matter. Douglas Adams pops immediatly to mind, and im assuming this is an author most slashdotters are familar with.

    So in the end... this boils down to an article about a guy who doesnt like progress, or is too damned lazy to dedicate himself to learning something new. Dont get me wrong, these people are everywhere... I have hundreds of people ( mostly 45+ years of age, btw... ) who would just love to see computers go away, email to burn in hell... and for everybody to have an in/out set of boxes sitting on their desks. Why? Because they grew up using a different system and never felt comfortible in the end.

    So, as it stands... this particular fellow settled on VI, as its the most basic interface he could find. If he found most GUI word processors too convoluted... I guarantee you, he didnt get much into the advanced features of VI either. Christ, he could have gotten by using notepad... or DOS EDIT for that matter... if there wasnt a 64K file limit.

    But there are two morals to this story I suppose... Perhaps the default install of office suites should be more.... um basic in the feature department... You turn things on as you need them. Then again... novelists arent exactly the default target that {hint,hint}OFFICE suites are aimed at anyways, now are they?

    The second possible moral... perhaps there is a target afterall for tablet PC. All these people that thing the pen is king and the computer is evil... well... perhaps they have the compremise they need. I have tested out two tablet PC's to date, and I have to admit, they are pretty slick. My three biggest complaints sofar are 1) it doesnt have the tactile feel of paper... not even close... so your writing at least till trained, is a bit altered 2) they are fairly slow, when compared to a comprable laptop. Must be alot of software overhead... 3) too damned expensive... but this will solve itself in time ( in fact, already has started to ).

    Although, except perhaps as a niche market... that last thing I ever *EVER* want to see, is developers start targeting for the luddite markets! Its bad enough our education system already caters to the lowest common denominator!

    Sorry... im vented now...

  204. TextEdit on OS X by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you can set the preferences for whether it defaults to .txt. or .rtf

    Mind you, it's .rtf doesn't quite seem to be vanilla, other rtf readers sometimes have problems with it.

  205. Re:Minimalism! by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1
    I can't write freehand. I can't think at the paltry speed of a pencil or obsolecent ink pen. My ideas move too fast for that, and if I have to wait for my hand to catch up, they're gone.


    That right there is the biggest difference. Most "Writers" are writing for the pleasure of writing. The fact that you're rushing to put the words on paper is what they are trying to avoid. If it's worth saying, you should be able to remember it long enough to write it down!


    Also, computers get in the way for lots of people. I'm still old enough that pen and paper is much easier for important drafts than sitting at a computer [cursing Bill G] for hours. I'm still a wacko that likes to write code out before ever wasting time at the PC typing it in. Computers are too busy [and I'm a sysadmin]---when most people want quiet to think clearly.


    It's the difference between craft and production. Why restore an old car by hand when you can get a new one factory-fresh for cheaper? Because the act of writing is the art, not the presentation..someone else will make those choices anyway..Why waste time and fustration on them before creating the actual work.

  206. Its also about the machine you write on -PCs stink by rogerborn · · Score: 1

    What I would love to find and buy, if anyone ever made one yet, is a WRITERs PC.

    This special computer is reminenscent of the Tandy TRS Model 100
    http://osaki.cool.ne.jp/hc/index.html If you remember, it was used by almost everyone in journalism in its day.

    The WRITERs PC would be:

    a Small Portable Folding CLAMSHELL (not a tablet) with:

    a Full Sized Backlit Keyboard, with full sized keys (no chicklets) This feature is very important for a writer.

    a Flat Screen B/W Monitor (NO touch screen) to match the keyboard's Size and Shape, but it would need to be bright and readable, say 800 x 480 pixels on a twelve in wide screen.

    No need for a Hard Drive, as Word (RTF) Files are small. instead it should have a 1GB Flash Memory Drive for data storage.
    http://www.zyonsystems.com/usbflashdrive .htm

    Also No Need for the fastest CPU or lots of RAM. (It would not need web surfing, but you would want email).

    Such a computer should have 100 Hours of Battery Life. http://alphasmart.com/products/dana_overview.html

    Obviously such a minimal laptop would not need the bloatware or monstrous OS from Microsoft, but it would be a very useable and useful laptop with the ultra small and stable Linux OS, and running only a text editor and a Mail app from.

    No one makes the WRITERs PC yet. (I would be willing to pay any price you name for this one!) Such a portable device would sell very well for the millions of us who write, IMO.

    Whoever created this would have the market completely to themselves, I believe.

    Thank you for your time.

    Regards,
    Roger Born
    Writer, Teacher, General Troublemaker
    http://writing.borngraphics.com/

  207. Re: a good FREE WP and TXT tools link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Found this after searching for a min.. not a bad list:

    http://www.bizoffice.com/soft_wordprocessing_pro ce ss.html

    ++dez;

    http://WebSearch.COM.AU

  208. One word... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lyx

  209. The network is my favorate tool by interstellar_donkey · · Score: 1

    As an amature writer myself, I find the best tool for writing is the network itself.

    At different times I like to write in different environments. Sometimes, sitting at the desk with a full sized screen provides me with the best setup. Othertimes, depending on mood, sitting in bed with my laptop works best.

    With the network, I can go wherever I want and the work will always be saved on my central server. Even if I'm 1,000 miles away I can access my network remotly and dabble with works in process.

    --
    The Internet is generally stupid
  210. Not a retreat by fm6 · · Score: 1
    I don't think it's correct to characterize Dickinson's abandonment of word processors as a "retreat". He's simply selected the tool whose feature set most closely corresponds to his needs. He wants a small, simple set of formatting options, the ability to work without moving his hand off the keyboard, etc. You could mung a word processor to act this way (by hiding all those arcane features, and adding new key macros to make the mouse unnecessary) and that's what I'd do myself. But if a text editor works best for Dickinson, it's what he should use, never mind the technology religion wars.

    Bear in mind that Dickinson is not doing anything new. Software to support exactly this kind of writing has been around for decades. There are even SGML DTDs to process simple hand-formatted text. And no, you don't need tags -- these are simply the default convention in SGML. You can write a DTD that says that a double line break is a paragraph tag, and a word surrounded by asterisks is an emphasis.

    It's always irritated me that there's so much software for presenting ultra-cool content, but only the most primitive tools for creating that content. In the mid 80s, there was a flurry of "thought processors" (basically outliners, though they often had clever features for rearranging and associating content). Alas, they never caught on. (Yes I know, some are still around. Selling like hotcakes, aren't they?) I think this is mainly because businesses drive most desktop software development, and they only are interested in features they can see.

  211. I think you all missed the point - KISS by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 1

    While I can't speak for the author, I didn't take this as a vi ad, per se (and vi is my editor or choice for almost everything!)

    I took it as an endorsement of vi *and similarly simple yet powerful editors*. Things that let you just do the job. Things that don't try to do a bunch of extra stuff. Things that don't encourage you to major in the minors.

    I use vi because it just works, and is generally available on everything I use. With the exception of Windows, I don't even have to chase it down; it's just there. If I used VMS, I guess I'd have to chase vi down- or maybe I'd just revert to EDT. I've learned way too many editors over the years, and forgotten most of them. vi is nearly ubiquititous, easy and powerful, so I use it.

    But if joe, or nEdIt, or whatever works for you, great. But for serious writing- no matter how complex- keep it simple.

  212. creative luddites by crucini · · Score: 1

    I think that's partly because artists like to clearly understand the rules of the game. How much came from the tools and how much from the artist. When the rools are rapdily changing, it's hard for one artist to assess the work of another.

    I guess photography was upsetting because it threatened to cheapen representation. Once photography became fairly standard, the rules of the game were obvious and we could seriously compare the efforts of different photographers.

    Another, subtler aspect is the creator's refusal to be overwhelmed by his tools. The tools should be quiet, neutral, responsive to the vision of the creator. They should not bear their own personality.

  213. Re:vi is for wussies. I use ed by slackbp · · Score: 1

    I think I still have my copy of Word Processing on the UNIX System, which served as a pretty good troff reference. The author seriously advocated using ed for editing, which makes some sense: it's universally available on Unix systems, it's very fast, and typesetting with troff doesn't require special formatting, so a line-oriented editor is no handicap.

  214. Re:vi for writers? YES! - LaTeX by Ramadog · · Score: 1
    The only problem I have had with pdf files generated this way was when I used ps2pdf and the fonts looked horrible when viewed with adobe. So far have not had a problem using pdflatex.

    To deal with the font problem when using ps2pdf I use \usepackage{times}. Abode pdf reader is then happy.

    The other way I have of making pdf files is to have a printer defined (I use the HPLJ4 driver) and set it to output to a postscript file. Then use ps2pdf to convert it to pdf. Have had good results with that. Also means any application that can print can generate a pdf.

  215. Re:My observations...Word Sucks by cerebralpc · · Score: 1

    I am currently studing and they force us to hand write all our notes during the lecture. Anyway I like to re-type these notes. Currently I'm at about 200 pages and Word is annoying slow - at creating bullet points. Its damn annoying!

  216. HOLY SHIT YUO AER TEH FUCKING GENUIAS!!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HWO cna yuo be sooooooo smartey man too saev teh tiem liek taht on yuor LUNIX SYSTME???????

    pls teahc me yuor COMPUTAR JEDI WAYYS!!!!!

  217. Only typewriters and cheap booze for REAL writers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ever notice how many "writers" attempt to prove this by saying how low tech they are or with their alcholism? The same as many "artists" don't even consider what's expressed in pixels, preferring something created with a canvas, diarrhea, and a jet fan.

    In touch with creative side, I get drunk, have sex, and then go express myself on the walls of my cave. Beat that.

  218. Re:vi is good but...so is mg. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=mg&se ktion=1

  219. I know 3 SF writers and they use computers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anything else would be hypocritical.

    One also does screenwriting. Technology allows him to live where he pleases. If treatments, drafts, and changes relied on a typewrtiter and US Mail or Fed-Ex he'd be screwed. These things must still be entered in a computer and then distributed to directors, cast, etc.

    Besides how many rewrites would you want to do on 1200 page manuscript with an old Olympia?

  220. ST Writer, Transwrite, TextEdit by Zobeid · · Score: 1

    My favorite word processors, in chronological order, have been:

    ST Writer (Atari ST)
    ST Writer Elite (Atari ST)

    Those were anachronistic relics even in the mid-to-late 1980s when I used them, as WYSIWYG was already starting to take over. But I had little patience with on-screen rulers, tab and margin stops, page breaks, and nonsense like that.

    Transcript (Amiga)
    Transwrite (Amiga)

    These were sort of hybrid semi-WYSIWYG programs (they showed italics and bold text on the screen!), and they were small and highly efficient. They could also be used as decent text editors for programming.

    TextEdit (Mac OS X)

    I think TextEdit is the ultimate writing tool. No, it doesn't do footnotes, it doesn't do formulas. It doesn't output HTML, or integrate with spreadsheets or presentation software. It's a word processor, it does word processing. The user interface is completely Mac-like and easy to understand.

    Also, it can output in either ASCII text or RTF, so I don't have to worry about having documents in some unreadable format if I ever change word processors again -- not that I foresee changing at all.

    Writing. . . Does anybody remember writing?

  221. Speaking of McNeally, how about Open/StarOffice by yourruinreverse · · Score: 1

    I know Sun simply bought StarOffice, and that Scott McNeally said it a long time ago, but StarOffice (even when it takes the form of the OpenOffice 1.1.0 release candidate I know like to use) is valiantly attempting to match Microsoft Office's bloat factor, and must by now be at 0.8 in that respect. But I like one particular feature about the bloated text editor that comes with it (or is actually and irritatingly part of the same process).

    What I like is that for the program to suggest how a word is going to end (Word Completion), I do not first need to tell it which words it is supposed to offer up, as with Microsoft Word, which I am regularly forced to use by my clients' requirements. Instead, OpenOffice kindly remembers some 9000 words that are longer than 5 characters for me (I tweaked the number of words a bit, can't even remember what the default number is).

    I translate (technical) books for a living, and having a built-in word completion feature like this, that bases suggestions on what I have previously entered in as useful words for that document (a document could easily hold up to 80,000 words, depending on the book and on the state of completion of the translation, of course), is immensely useful.

    Nevertheless, OpenOffice almost never gets in my way anymore. OK, I had to turn off a lot of features that are probably very useful for writing half-page letters, but get in your way after about three pages, and I had to find a proper font as well as a way to tell the program (I was going to say "tool") to make that choice of font stick, but after that, and after subsequent upgrades to newer versions up to the current one (where's me final 1.1.0?) I have never experienced such trouble again. I almost never visit the menus (pahh!), except for nice new features such as Export to PDF and for the way to the ever-irritating print settings dialogs (so basically, I can use it by opening the File menu once in a while).

    Now if only OpenOffice had a half-decent Dutch spell checker, I could do entirely without MSWord (which has a half-decent one, not a decent one), which after typing a mere 25 pages or so, starts running in circles; looping endlessly; a problem most likely to be fixed in the release after the upcoming release.

    --
    JeR
  222. Vi! Vi! Viiiiii! Mwahahahahaaha!!!! by The+OPTiCIAN · · Score: 1

    I'm a very non-professional writer. Some of you may have heard of Nanowrimo, where contestants try to write a fifty thousand word novel in a month. I heard about it on slashdot after registrations had closed two years ago and thought - this is for me! So I spoke to some friends (and many of them happen to be choristers) and we decided to run our own festival in December with basically the same premise: use any means to write a fifty thousand word novel in a calendar month. Being December you get an extra day, too. We called it 'Choristers and Others Writing On Holiday' ('cowoh'). And we've run it again once since. Anyway. I use vim (ahdore.com/craig/vim/.vimrc), and cvs, and can show the progress of my novel from beginning to end. The unix command line tools are great for composition. I have bash scripts for word count, planning, opening sections and all that.

    The last website was written with jsp on tomcat3 (had an old binary laying around), postgresql 7.x and linux 2.2 running on a K62 with 256MB. It was the biggest hack I've ever written. I started with three patterns of jsp and had a weekend to do it, and managed to mangle those patterns to produce the site: word count, entrant diaries, a news section, and "top ten" portlets and the like. Nevertheless it lasted the festival, and then I destroyed it (leaving the database).

    I'm currently redeveloping our website, and plan to diverge from the nanowrimo theme a lot more this time around. In addition to the old features, I want to have a comprehensive registration and profiles section; some sort of scheme for uploading daily changes; and automatic source control. I'm also writing some tools so that the data will be automatically composed into a formatted pdf at the end of the festival. Hopefully these measures will encourage people to use plain text and learn the benefits wonderful tools you can use to work with it.

    We're based in Adelaide, but currently have competitors from around Australia. We're fairly small, but open to new people, and hoping to do another festival before the end of the year. My email is craig at ahdore / com.

    --


    Believe with me, my saplings.
  223. What is all this noise? by agendi · · Score: 1
    I understand completely the importance of writing without distractions. As a playwright and a poet I spent my fair share of time in text editors.

    One thing I just don't understand is what all these "distractions" from word/openoffice are? I mean are they really so overwhelmed by choice of buttons to press?

    So far alot of people just want the basics - put text on the page. I can understand that. Writing plays however does require some formatting, it's not the blocks of text for articles and novels. Specific formatting represents definite areas of interest - dialogue, stage instructions, scene changes and transitions etc. Different people are reading the script for different reasons.

    There are several excellent stage/screen play tools out there but none of them are free. I have half considered trying to write one OSS.

    I spent 25 minutes writing a template and style for Word, turn off all the toolbars (that's part of the template automatically), added some drop down menus of commonly used terms and instructions and created a floating toolbar of character names for quick dialogue insertion.

    After that I type.

    There are some important points to remember though.
    1) Plays rarely go for more than 100 pages (I wouldn't use Word for large docs - I've tried with much stress).
    2) I wouldn't use Word where there is significant diagramming (such as tech docs).
    3) I still don't believe that its ready for so called "collaborative" editing, although it is improving and still well ahead of some other document processors.

    The moaning about distractions seems pretty tiny to me when you can turn them off (and keep them off) so easily.

    --
    I just can't be bothered.
  224. No, no, no! by SEE · · Score: 1

    The tool to use is, yes, a Pentel 0.5mm mechanical pencil. But the clear choice among them is not the finger-clicker model, but the Forte Pro, with rubber finger grip/pad, metal clip, and plastic cap over the eraser.

  225. Different writing implements for different styles by LucidityZero · · Score: 1

    I write a lot.

    When I'm writing fiction, it almost invariably ballpoint pen on a spiral notebook. (black ink)

    When I'm writing poetry or letters, it's a fountain pen on unlined paper. (black ink)

    When I'm writing technical documentation or other essays and works along those lines, I too use vi. Green text on black background. I, of course, important this into OpenOffice to format and make it look proffesional, but I can't do any serious writing in a word processor.

    In my opinion word processors are NOT for scribing text. They are for formatting and "processing" text. Text that I (and many serious writers I know) compile elsewhere first.

    --
    Sig.i>
  226. amen! and have some xml with your vi. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    I always jumped at the newest alternative, so going to text from graphics was actually an update for me.

    BeOS is dead, long live Linux. Linux may be a little harder to set up (especially if you do as I reccomend, use Gentoo, but that's for another religeous war). I'd choose vim over vi, because vim has some new features, but never fear, it's fully compatable with vi -- such that if you type 'vi' on most modern Linux boxes, vim comes up.

    Don't try emacs, it's almost an OS in itself. You might like it, but I'd suggest you don't try it.

    So happy vim!

    And use xml/xslt. It may take awhile to learn, but it does something really critical -- it separates your content from presentation. That way, you focus on writing and creating content in vi, and you can always format it and lay it out (VERY quickly and easily) later on for the web (html) or for printing (postscript) or even (gasp) for Windows people (word). In fact, XML is durable and flexible enough that one XML document could last forever (or as long as modern English does) in its original form, just having its content presented differently as new formats came along.

    But overall, I think it's really a great story. BeOS isn't bad, but if you're still using it, read up on Open Source -- that's why Linux is good.

    Finally, don't shun the graphical interface when you need something done fast. Just use something like AbiWord. Lightweight and fast, but it will do everything you need it to.

    I now have a 1/2" thick laptop (actually a sub-notebook) with Linux on it. It has replaced at least one 3 or 4 inch thick school book (I'm in high school) and quite a lot of paper I'd be taking notes on.

    I'd say, don't be so paranoid of new technology, but after you learn something, if it isn't good, unlearn it. That way, I know vim is the best alternative, because I've tried everything else (except TeX).

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  227. writers read /. ? by iammaxus · · Score: 1

    Im amazed at the number of real writers who read Slashdot and actually took the time to comment on this article. There opinions have been enlightening because i have often wondered wether Word was just getting in the way. Thank you.

  228. Re:vi is for wussies. I use ed by LucidityZero · · Score: 1
    vi is for wussies. I use ed for all my novels. Sometimes I even write in rot13 code just for fun.

    Ha! Wimp!

    I write all of my works using direct binary output from obfuscated perl regex expressions.

    --
    Sig.i>
  229. Four Simple Rules, in order... by IBitOBear · · Score: 1

    Fifteen or more years ago I was a lab assistant at a community college and I watched as a room full of students failed to complete a word processing assignment. They had been given a "starting document" and printed copy; the assignment was to make the starting document match the printed copy. One of them finally turned to me in utter dispair and after I made her look around at all the trouble everyone was having (and after I told her how "bad" her teacher must have been) I gave her the four simple rules of electronic document preparation:

    (In Order)
    1) Content. Get all the words and ideas you desire to express into the system.
    2) Correctness. Go after the grammar and spelling, make sure that each thought really makes sense.
    3) Grouping. Check your punctuation (again) and your paragraph breaks. Make tables and inset boxes.
    4) Presentation. Now that everything is said, you are free to highlight, bold, etc. Do your colors and fonts and drop in your pictures if you want.

    As you grow with a tool you may find that you can do several of these steps at once. A *rare* person can do all four at the same time as long as he keeps them in the above order in mental priority, ready at any moment to abandon any higher numbered step in favor of paying needed attention to a lower.

    If you apply these steps to your process, either for the whole document, or for chapters, or sections or whatever "largest comfortable" segment works for you, you will never have trouble with your tools distrupting your workflow.

    The pointless stalls happen when a person jumps over a step. They pick a font size and such so that the text looks just so, then they find a spelling or punctuation error and what was one bold banner across the page is now a two-line peel-away that has bumped half of the following text into some oblivion of the next page.

    Back to the anticdote, she got her work done and blew the curve for the class.

    (BTW: I didn't get much beyond step one in composing this post. I am blowing off stress and wasting time under deadline pressure just now, and the slashdot interface does not lend itself well to spellcheck... 8-)

    --
    Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
    --"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
  230. Re:vi for writers? YES! - LaTeX by AugustMoon · · Score: 1

    I have had problems with embedded fonts using the command sequence:
    latex file.tex
    dvips -o file.ps file.dvi
    ps2pdf file.ps

    Eventually I was able to fix it by using a newer version of ghostscript and adding some font path locations. Really felt like a hack job.

    Now I'm through with using vanilla LaTeX and instead use pdflatex:
    pdflatex file.tex

    That command generates pdf files directly (no dvi) and with really nice fonts. The only caveat is you can no longer embed eps files into you document -- you have to embed pdf files instead. I use epstopdf to generate the pdf files. Good luck!

  231. The problem is programmers don't want to learn by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 1

    I agree that the problem with this situation is that people don't want to learn, but the people who don't want to do the learning (as usual) are the programmers (specifically those of Word) who are designing the bad user interfaces.

    If the programmers at Microsoft had actually taken the time to read fine manuals about software usability, they would obviously have known that having both an "Options" menu selection and a "Customize" menu section is ambiguous and exceptionally bad user interface design. In fact, Word is even worse than that; the places you have to go to turn off annoying stuff (which should have been turned off by default in the first place) are spread throughout the entire damn program. There is no one single preferences area for configuring options in Word. And that's what so many people stumble over and why they call their friends at 3AM in the morning.

    Ergonomica Auctorita

    --
    Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
  232. for a simple Windows word processor by alizard · · Score: 1
    Why not Wordpad? It is simple, has no macro capability, puts out .DOC and .RTF files, is not all that resource intensive, and doesn't have the file size limits of Notepad. And it's part of every Windows distro. I maintain webpages in it and do most of my word processing in it, often starting a document in it, doing all the text entry, and putting it into Word if it needs formatting or pagination.

    As for *nix console text editors, I use pico. One doesn't have to memorize arcane commands, it has a bottom horizontal menu with simple control character commands just like the old BBS text editors. Finding it is easy enough, google is your friend.

  233. Abiword, anybody? by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    While Vi is probably what I'd use were I running Linux, I'm not running Linux for a variety of reasons. (No CYMK, no legacy support for half my hardware, and QuarkExpress is 'it' when it comes to industrial press jobs.)

    When running Windows, Abiword is an excellent little open source editor with all kinds of features, but at under 5 megs, no bloat. Version 2.0 just came out. Go download a copy today.


    -FL

    1. Re:Abiword, anybody? by grolim13 · · Score: 1
      While Vi is probably what I'd use were I running Linux, I'm not running Linux for a variety of reasons.

      That shouldn't stop you from using vi, though! Head over to vim.org and grab a copy of Vim for Windows and you're all set...

  234. Writing?! by JohnsonWax · · Score: 1

    I really don't see the need to push people into such modern tools as writing. My office has a long and glorious oral tradition - memos and reports are told and retold in meter and verse from generation to generation. Vice presidents sit down around the conference table, dim the lights and recite tales to human resource specialists and administrative assistants from years past.

    My favorite is 'June 1974 Quarterly Report'. There's a lovely passage toward the end regarding a change in depreciation schedules to compensate for an adjustment in equipment maintenance. The way the syllables shorten through the passage suggests to the listener that profits are being rapidly lost, but suddenly the word usage changes to a more relaxed pace when the P&L values are stated. Spellbinding!

  235. Another word ... by shellbeach · · Score: 1
    LyX - LaTeX with a gui.

    I don't know why nobody else has mentioned it ... LyX is LaTeX without needing to know the LaTeX command set (or have to type \emph{} every time you want italics, etc :). For writing large documents without any distractions it's perfect.

    Not that I'd use LyX for day-to-day word processing - that's what OOo is for ... Pity there's not a LaTeX import/export filter in OOo, though ...

    btw - couldn't resist:
    And speaking of graphical editors, have you experienced the pain of having your careful setup, with a new page for every chapter, completely ruined by adding one line to the second paragraph of the first chapter?

    That's what the "Insert Page Break" function is for :)

    1. Re:Another word ... by PurpleBob · · Score: 1

      LyX defeats the point. It has menus. It has toolbars and buttons all over the place. It has far too many choices, which is what would cause a writer to play with them (in order to procrastinate) instead of writing.

      --
      Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
    2. Re:Another word ... by shellbeach · · Score: 1
      LyX defeats the point. It has menus. It has toolbars and buttons all over the place. It has far too many choices, which is what would cause a writer to play with them (in order to procrastinate) instead of writing.

      Actually it's pretty minimal as far as the toolbars-and-buttons go. It does have a lot of menu features, mainly because LaTeX itself has a hell of a lot of features.

      But the main thing is that the writer doesn't have to worry about (1) pagination/TOCs/styles/headings or (2) LaTeX syntax (which is going to scare many would-be writers away). Compared to OpenOffice Writer or MS Word when writing large (>10,000 word) files (master documents, anyone??), LyX is much more productive whilst also retaining a gui.

  236. Disappointing... by Theory+of+Everything · · Score: 1, Funny

    This guy doesn't even give credit to vi's predecessors.

    You know, i, ii, iii, iv, and v.

  237. a technophobe tale by swell · · Score: 2, Funny


    Yes, of course Mr. Spoilsport that's ... OK, Ralph. That's probably a very nice feature but you see, I'm a writer. All I need is a car to get me to church on Sunday and back to my studio. I'm afraid I'm not very good at handling 'features'.

    Of course the two-way sneeze through windvents would be great for my geeky brother, and the climate control that emulates Ancient Egypt or Tropical Paradise would delight a world traveller, but I'm just a guy who writes.

    Look Mr. ... Ralph, I just want to go to church. It's 16 blocks. If I were to find myself on the Antelope Valley Freeway and that fancy climate control turned on, I would be totally befuddled. Can't you find a simpler car for me to buy? Fewer buttons, switches, levers and knobs? Just a car with a button that says "go to church" and one that says "return home" would be fine.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
  238. Older School Than Thou by SoupIsGood+Food · · Score: 1

    I used to carry around a PDA for taking notes and jotting down poetry on the go... a sleek Handspring Edge, equipped with Wordsmith anodized blue. It was a royal pain inputting text in graphitti, and the folding keyboard was a little too much geek to use while sitting at the bar. I still use the combo for rough drafts on-the-go, when I don't wanna lug around the Powerbook... in the winter they fit into my jacket pockets, and in the summer, they fit into a small backpack or briefcase. But they don't go everywhere with me.

    What goes everywhere with me is a Moleskine notebook... a tiny, leatherbound notebook with a zillion pages and a ribbon bookmark. I use a tiny Filcao Forever fountain pen to write whatever I would in it. Since it's all rough drafts and need to be re-written anyway, entering the worthwhile stuff it into the computer isn't much of a chore.

    On word processing:

    As a slam poet, quasi-professional technology pundit and wannabe fiction author, my writing tools are very, very important to me.

    I was brought up in the ways of Quick Brown Fox for the Commodore 64, and then moved to MS Works for DOS. These programs sucked mightily, as did the weenie word processor that came with the Tandy 1000HX.

    Then I got my Mac. A used Mac Portable "luggable", three years obsolete, with a pirated copy of MS Word 5.0.1. It was like going from a WWI Biplane to an X-Wing fighter.

    Then I tried Write Now, a now defunt word processor from a small company, and it quickly became my tool of choice. It did all the things a Mac should do well: wysiwyg editing and formatting on the fly, easily configured stylesheets and headers/footers, and absolutely no clutter. You had a window to type in, with a little toolbar at the top you could easily turn on and off with one click, and that's it. Everything else was in easily navigated menus and dialog boxes.

    When they went out of business, I switched to Mariner Write, but wasn't very happy with it. Then I discovered Nissus, a Mac-only Word Processor, and it was heaven. All the power of Word, with none of the bullshit.

    Now I use MacOS X's "Textedit" and use InDesign to format stuff that isn't going to be published on the web. This is starting to cramp my style a little bit, so I'm going back to Nissus, now that it's OS X native.

    SoupIsGood Food

  239. What Knuth does by Phronesis · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Here is a description of Donald Knuth's writing process, as related by one of his students in Mathematical Writing (p. 14):
    His first copy is written in pencil. Some people compose at a terminal, but Don says, "The speed at which I write by hand is almost perfectly synchronized with the speed at which I think. I type faster than I think so I have to stop, and that interrupts the flow."

    In the process of typing his handwritten copy into the computer he edits his composition for flow, so that it will read well at normal reading speed. Somewhere around here the text gets TeXed, but the description of this stage was tangled up with the description of the process of rewriting the composition. Of course, rewriting does not all occur at any one stage. As Don said, "You see things in different ways on the different passes. Some things look good in longhand but not in type."

  240. One word for this guy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Notepad.

  241. Partially true by epepke · · Score: 1

    Many creative people are resistant to new technology. However, creative people are also usually the first adopters of new technology. Consider Mark Twain with the typewriter, or Douglas Adams with the Mac. Yes, many artists refuse to accept digital photography as art. But it isn't Joe Sixpack who is buying $40,000 high-resolution digital cameras--artists are doing that.

  242. Is turning off autoformat harder than learning vi? by KH2002 · · Score: 1
    I can't believe that someone who writes for a living couldn't invest the time to figure out how to configure MS Word to leave them alone.

    Instead of that, they do something REALLY time-efficient, like learn vi or XyWrite. (cough)

  243. All this talk by iq+in+binary · · Score: 1

    All this talk of formatting, fonts and styles. Why so much bitching and moaning about a rather unimportant subject?

    In most modern text editors (I guess vim could be considered modern), you set the font for the entire project before you even start typing. I know in certain situations different fonts are required in the same project, but those are few and far between (humor me).

    As for formatting, ever heard of doing that in the writing process? It's rather quite easy. I can type up a 30 p. project in 8 hours and never have to worry about format or font(font being set at beginning), because I actively format the entire project in the writing process. When you finish a paragraph, hit Enter then press Tab. It's that easy.

    I know the most common argument is going to be "Not possible when writing several drafts!". That's a complete load of BS. How hard is it to move your pinky up and to the left less than 1/2 inch to hit the Tab button? If you actively format even your rough drafts, formatting never has to be worried about again (just make sure your Ins mode isn't on replace) for the rest of the project. It takes less that 1 minute per 10 pages to do so, and is well worth the effort (did a study, sadly enough).

    --
    Of all the Universal Constants, here's one I know: Nice guys finish last ;)
  244. What about VI and troff? by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 1

    Well what about it? Am I the only person on the planet that still uses those 2 old work horses together?

    --

    Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

  245. Simplicity is divine by artymiak · · Score: 1
    After going through Norton Editor, WordStar, WordStar 2000, WordPerfect, MS Word and a bunch of other editors/word processors, I finally settled on vi.

    Everything I write these days is written in vi. When I need print quality I just feed plain text to groff.

    --

    Jacek Artymiak
    freelance consultant and writer
    master of many a page

  246. Outline mode by Jaq · · Score: 1

    I like using Outline view in Word when I'm working on documentation. It makes it easy to break down the document into logical areas. I don't have to worry about styling, just which level each scetion is.

    I guess there are other outlining tools around

  247. Why not use a Text Editor like UltraEdit? by zridling · · Score: 1

    This is an interesting discussion because as a writer, I feel for the author when he spends more time formatting and learning the word processor than ever writing. One can lose oneself forever with futzing and tinkering and never get a damned thing done during the day.

    However, the UltraEdit Text Editor (www.ultraedit.com) allows not only spacing, justification, and font selection, but will save the document in .txt, .html, or XML formats so that one's content can be imported to any other program. And if this is not your game, check out the sheer speed and simplicity of TextMaker (www.softmaker.de) - it's cheap, fast, will do 90% of what Word does and hey, only takes up 18Mb on your HD!

    Either way, you'll spend a minimal amount of time futzing with the program, if at all.

  248. Re: I NEED Courier Man by poofyhairguy82 · · Score: 1

    Its sad to hear that you can't use courier outside of college. Its like a penal implant for papers. Pump on courier and POOF, you paper has an extra page for every three. Die times new roman. And papers that use a word count instead. Grrrrr.

  249. Re:Bring up this. by slaida1 · · Score: 1
    So let's see here, one buys expensive word processing package instead of free alternatives like pico or joe only to discover that he can't start writing right away because of automatic cripplefeatures. Interesting.

    I want to bring up *text* by myself not any fucking helps, let alone concentrate on other automatics. Oh oh, while you're at it, why don't you bring up some genious plan to turn off all these autofeatures on all workstations in all offices so we can collectively save tens of thousands of minutes of worktime.

    Don't tell me, next you'll probably suggest bringing up help for walking since MS Walk "helps" user by inserting automatically extra steps thus tripping user and preventing him to run alltogether.

    --
    Preserve old classics: copy your collection onto all hard drives.
  250. What about a bit of a compromise? by the_womble · · Score: 1
    I do not write anything as long as books (few thousand words at the most), but what its worth I use Lyx.

    • It has a GUI but a very simple one
    • You get well formatted documents (better than word), but you do not do the formatting.
    • You can output to a variety of formats (PDF, HTML, PostScript, Plain text) and formatting (even hyperklinks) is well adjusted to each format
    • By making global format settings easy to use, tweaking difficult it encourages you to spend your time on writing rather than formatting.
    • For those of us who sometimes needs to include diagrams or pictures in a document it can do it (which is more than vi conveniently can.

    I agree we should concentrate on content ratehr than formatting but going all the way to using vi seems a little minimalist given the other tools avaialable.

    The only thing I miss for MS Word is the ability to review changes and that is as dangerous as it is useful.

  251. Courier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    If you had checked up more you would have found that scripts for movies are formatted to a specific standard that demands isospaced (or non-proportional) fonts. The reason being that those using the scripts should be able to reliably estimate how much meat there is in a script.

    You may be an editor but evidently not a script editor.

    For your reading pleasures I have done this in isospeced fonts.

  252. (La)TeX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I find it rather amusing that with Tex (and thus also LaTeX) the line- and page breaks are far superior to anything MS has created, and TeX is getting old now.

    Just look at the orphan and widow protection and you will see what I mean.

    Another comparison: you get money for finding real bugs in the original TeX program (web, isn't it). You will not even get a reply from MS if you report a bug i Word.

    The Linux Documentation Project (TLDP) uses (La)TeX as part of the tool chain to created hardcopy versions and it looks rather nice and professional. Some complain about alleged ugliness in the font Computer Modern but I rather like it.

  253. Sadly, for resume writers, MS-Word is essential by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Many recruiters just don't understand the idea of anything that is not in .Doc format.

    My attempts to explain how MS-Word can be used with text; seems only to confuse and frighten the recruiters.

  254. Vi? by Hard_Code · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't Pico/Nano, or something like DOS edit be better than Vi? They don't even have "modes", it's just text and arrow keys, much simpler. Vi really annoys me by forcing me to go back and forth between "modes" and constantly hitting the escape key. "oh, did I INSERT, I meant APPEND. STUPID ME! I better hit the escape key and go back and try again!"

    --

    It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
  255. P205 by metamatic · · Score: 1

    Yes, the P205 is definitely one of the finest hand-writing implements. They last forever, too; I'm on my third in about 25 years.

    My problem has been finding an ink-based equivalent of the P205, for situations where you can't write in pencil.

    I used to write with a Rotring .5mm rapidograph. That was the epitome of pens, as far as I was concerned. Unfortunately, if you don't use 'em every day, they clog up with dried ink. They also respond really badly to plane trips, and tend to leak if carried around in a bag. I tried a rapidoliner. It was good, and cheaper than a rapidograph set, but suffered the same clogging and leaking problems.

    I think I may have found a decent alternative, though. It's the Sanford (rotring) uni ball Gel RT. It feels almost as good as a rapidograph, the lines are nice and even, but it's practical for everyday use and cheap enough that you can keep a box of them in the office.

    It's strange how the writing process is so affected by the physical aesthetics of writing implements.

    --
    GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
  256. WordPerfect by slagish666 · · Score: 1
    I wrote my undergrad thesis using WordPerect Suite for DOS, which came with lite versions of WordPerfect and a spreadsheet program. I easily replaced the lite version of WordPerfect with WordPerfect 5.1 (I found the spreadsheet program to do all I needed it to.)

    It came with a task switcher (this was DOS after all), and did an excellent job of taking my tables from the spreadsheet program and dropping them into WordPerfect completely perfectly.

    This was all on a 10MHz 286, too! I often wonder just how fast any of the old DOS programs would run on a modern machine.

    --
    "Consider the lillies of the goddamn field."
  257. Looks like you're writing a eulogy! by Benwick · · Score: 1

    Good luck to the rest of the world...I'm a third year in a creative writing program and I've written a few essays in vi over the years, but I can tell you the chance of my classmates learning vi is about the same as my chance of coming up with a dazzling metaphor for the end of this sentence before my boredom eclipses the sheer fun of typing, like an annular eclipse eclipsing most, but not all, of the sun.

    No, that was not dazzling... Ergo, odds = 0.

    As for me, I've been happily using Abiword 2.0 since... three days ago. Wordperfect 'til then. Death to WORD!

  258. Stickies by cribcage · · Score: 1
    This is utter nonsense. A writer KNOWS what font he writes in makes know difference, the magazine/publisher will likely decide this. This is akin to blaming the existance of pencils and electric sharpeners for his incessant pencil sharpening.
    Speaking as a writer -- which you're clearly not -- I'll say that you're missing the point, which is that a toolbox oughtn't be cluttered with extra, unnecessary tools. In most cases, you're exactly right: font and other formatting decisions will not be the writer's domain. This is exactly why posters are arguing that the tools for these decisions shouldn't be scripted into software for writers. Let writing software remain writing software, and let publishing software be publishing software.

    Some years ago, I noticed that I was doing almost none of my writing in Microsoft Word. I used Word to save and to print, but I was writing most text in AOL documents. When I realized this, I started using Apple's Stickies software, and I've found that to be the best solution. I don't have to look at even one foolish toolbar, and I can easily open, re-size, re-color, and re-arrange multiple windows -- allowing me to essentially write on digital 'notecards,' which is particularly useful in speechwriting.

    My two cents.

    crib

    --

    Please don't read my journal
    1. Re:Stickies by ePhil_One · · Score: 1
      Speaking as a writer -- which you're clearly not --

      Am I a professional writer, no. I've worked tech support for a technical society that published dozens of journals and hundreeds of textbooks, not to mention having to do technical documentation for my job, and writing papers for my class. I started using Wordstar about 20 years ago and CP/M systems for high school.

      So I know something about the subject

      I'll say that you're missing the point, which is that a toolbox oughtn't be cluttered with extra, unnecessary tools.

      No, you are the one missing the point.

      The Author claimed that his ability to change fonts, margins, etc. was the reason he wasn't getting his work done. He suggested Vi was the perfect tool for writers because he couldn't fiddle with such things before.

      My counter-point was that this was just a bad habit of the writer, and compared it to sharpening pencils. Other posters have pointed out that even the ability to easily edit text makes even vi dangerous to some writers, since they may have the urge to start tweaking prose immediately instead of getting the to the story writing. (See Billy Crystal's character in "Throw Mama from the Train")

      You come back with "Stickies" is all I need, despite the fact that Stickies have features the original author was complaining about, font selection, font color, font size, etc.

      And I didn't say "MS Word is great" (I actually called it bloated). Use what works for you. Just don't claim that vi is all anyone needs, and don't blame the tools for your personal foibles. Stickies works for you because what you write isn't meant for publication. Its a tool that works for you.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
  259. Hmph, I haven't found anything faster by Moderation+abuser · · Score: 1

    It's been what, about 10 years and I haven't found a word processor since which lets me get the job done faster. Nothing on Linux, nothing on Windows, nothing on Mac. They all get in the way with how clever they are trying to be.

    --
    Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
  260. Is there an open source XyWrite? by jesterzog · · Score: 1

    You convinced me into doing some research, and everything out there seems to suggest that it's quite an incredible word processor. Consequently I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be any open source clone, which is a shame, and that everyone who still likes it seems to be going to great lengths to run the ancient DOS version on modern systems.

    Do you have any idea if there are any open source apps out there that are trying to clone or work like XyWrite? I simply haven't been able to find any after a moderate search.

    1. Re:Is there an open source XyWrite? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You're definitely right: XyWrite would be perfect for open source cloning. Unfortunately, it seems like all the hardcore XyWrite people are writers and not programmers.

      It would be nice to see an open source XyWrite project, but all word processing on Linux efforts seem to be devoted to cloning MS crap.

  261. Formatting and tech writing by fendel · · Score: 1

    ...the tech writer's MAIN job (in my experience) is to supply the presentation and formatting to largely-existing content.

    Argh. No no no no. That's a misconception. Maybe some writers work that way (over on Techwr-L we call them "font fondlers") but most of us don't--or at least the good ones don't.

    Typically I either (a) start from scratch, interviewing subject matter experts and doing my own research; or for some short docs, (b) get a "draft" from the subject matter experts that I then edit, expand on, overhaul, or chuck out the window and totally rewrite (depending on the quality of the draft). Rarely does even one sentence stand unchanged.

    Surely you don't try to generate complete documentation -- for a non-trivial amount of information -- including both the content AND the finalized presentation all at once?

    Sure I do. I'll tweak formatting later on, but generally I do most of the headers/layout tables/graphics/bold/styles/etc at roughly the same time as the writing. (Working with screen captures is usually a nice break from writing, and gives me something painless to do on sluggish-brain mornings before I'm ready to tackle verbal nuances.) I sure don't write it all and then go back and add formatting.

    Seeing the formatting--headers, bold, tables, boxes--helps me visualize the structure of what I'm working on.

    I would think you'd go back when you're done and worry about consistent presentation, additional formatting, etc.

    I go back and proofread for formatting just about the same way I proofread for writing and technical accuracy.

    1. Re:Formatting and tech writing by Xentax · · Score: 1

      Hmm. I still think there's a wider variety of responsibilities than you're assuming.

      I'm coming from a software development perspective, where (as a developer and tester), I *have* to be the one to generate the raw data that ends up as the documentation.

      It's often difficult to get even another developer to look at someone's code and understand it, let alone someone that doesn't necessarily have related programming experience. After all, that's why the documentation is being created to begin with.

      So, maybe I'm the one making an overbroad generalization, and the story's different in other fields. But I don't see how a tech writer could really nail down the specific content for a software project on their own.

      At least, not and get it *right*. I'm sure it was just a particularly bad experience, but I once had a tech writer take the documentation I produced once and just MANGLE it -- they didn't even understand the terminology to a sufficient degree, so they did things like replace the world "singleton" with "single" in a class description!

      I guess, like many jobs these days, you can't just toss out a title like "Tech Writer" and expect it to mean the same thing to everyone. Sort of like "System Engineer" or even "Program Manager"...

      Xentax

      --
      You shouldn't verb words.
  262. Neil Stephenson, Portland and fountain pens by LandGator · · Score: 1

    Neil Stephenson discussed Quicksilver, his newest novel and the first book of his Baroque Cycle and associated matters, on the evening of 24 Sept at the First Congregational Church on SW Park in Puddletown.

    The Baroque Cycle deals w/ the ancestors of characters in Cryptonomicon. Two more volumes of the BC have been mostly written. He decided to write the BC during Cryptonomicon, and started in 1997.

    He writes and does the first edits in longhand w/ a fountain pen. Text written this way is "frozen" for a long time and is better for it.

    He believes there's a mental buffer which holds the next thought. The text in that buffer is plastic and easily improved, but once the words on paper, much more difficult to revise. The quality of his first drafts are better because they are in the buffer longer.

    Writing is a craft, more than an intellectual activity, and the motions used to write influence the result. No great literature will ever be written by someone with a jack in their head.

    Once the Baroque Cycle is complete, he has no plan for what's next, but he finds he likes historical writing better. It's also safer than wr1ting the future.

    (More notes from his talk, including commentary on vi vs EMACS, and the infamous DENTAL EXTRQACTON SCENE, will be posted in the October 2003 issue of The Pulsar, the monthly journal of the Portland (Oregon) Science Fiction Society
    http://www.porsfis.org

    --
    There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
  263. Re:vi for writers? YES! - LaTeX by J.Random+Hacker · · Score: 1

    I'm using pdflatex for a collection of technical documents that run to in excess of 2000 pages each. I'm using epstopdf to make pdf images for inclusion. It works well except for a group of engineers that can't be bothered to actually set their save options.

    The documents are heavily cross-referenced and indexed. One group insists on using MS Word and Acrobat Distiller. At this time, the documents cannot be produced with hyperlinks enabled -- Distiller often runs for upwards of a day without completing. When it does finish, the hyperlink boxes are shifted slightly.

    Using pdflatex, I can manufacture the same document in just under 10 minutes, and it has all the hyperlinks, and they're properly placed.

    When I'm writing parts of this document, I give no thought to formatting, but I do mark up for semantic content.

    PDFLaTeX is the only way I can stay sane with documents that big.