Slashdot Mirror
Martial Arts Robots
curmudgeous writes "Japanese tech firms are making waves with robots trained to perform martial arts moves." On one hand, this is largely just a novelty, but on the other, robots capable of doing these moves are many steps closer to being able to move around in real world environments. But mostly, sumo stomping robots look cool.
I, for one, welcome our new Martial Arts Robot overloads. (fp)
A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
France Surrenders!
the geisha-girl whore-robots are ready?
I for one welcome our new kung-fu robotic overlords!
An unjust law is no law at all. - St. Augustine
Does this scare the hell out of anyone else?
Just make sure you check KungfubotUpdate.com once a week and unplug any robots you may already have running rouge around the neghborhood!
symetrix. We are building a religion, a limited edition.
So who wants to take bets on who turns us into pets first: The kung-Fu Robots or the Dolphins with Thumbs.
Blaze a trail to the New World
I think it's interesting that the mechanical challenges are no longer the stumbling block. It's now AI.
"I can not bring myself to believe that if knowledge presents danger, the solution is ignorance" - Isaac Asimov
The answer is, "Because they can."
/syle
Just a novelty? What about the applications of such robots in real-world environments. Now big, mean, ugly robots won't be so prone to bullying smaller robots because there will always be the possibility that the smaller one may be a Ninjabot.
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
Nothing like a ninja that needs to get oiled...
Is this the first step towords a robot army?
Who cares about the real world? Having robots capable of doing martial arts means we're much closer to having 5-story tall robots fighting over the future of Tokyo! (and various other classic anime scenarios)
This is just a step in the direction to AMIEE. THen we can recommission the martial arts robots that were created for warfare to run recon. Then forget to totally wipe their programming and let the chance of them switching back to combat mode creep up. It's fun how life starts to imitate art.
a beowulf cluster of Wireless Borg Monkeys and you'll have some /real/ fun.
Best Slashdot Co
robots capable of doing these moves are many steps closer to being able to move around in real world environments.
I absolutely agree. I've said for ages that a robot just can't usefully navigate a house without being able to do a good roundhouse-kick, preferably to a height of 5.5 feet. Even then, without a good iron-palm strike, it's not going to have problems.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
Researchers would focus on legalizing cock fights and making robots to clean my house.
This is the kind of thing you read about after it's too late.
I've seen this in a lot of bad movies. Instead of making nice robots that get your coffee, or make your bed, someone makes a killer robot. But they never intended for it to kill. They just wanted to prove the critics wrong... plus the little fella is cute.
Then they multiply and the world is laid waste. Who hasn't seen that scenario played out?
Seriously, who makes robots that know karate? Oh well, most lessons are learned after its too late.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
Hmmm... sounds like they've got a prime candidate for the role of Splinter in the up-and-coming Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Part IV... or possibly an EVEN COOLER flyin' fightin' Yoda.
Can't wait until the USAF gets ahold of this though...
Freedom isn't free; its price is the well-being of others.
Personally, I can't believe a community such as Slashdot could get so excited over such old news.
Sincerely,
Johnny Sokko
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
Marital Arts. Now that would have been something to get, er, excited about.
"Honey, could you come here? I need a lube job."
Ok, even robots get cranky and whine I guess, but they whine about the right things.
KFG
Well, I couldn't find any of the martial arts moves in video, but here are a few of Hoap-2. Enjoy.
http://www.automation.fujitsu.com/en/products/p
Post-em if you got em. Would LOVE to see Morph3 in action.
Everybody was kung foo fighting...
Remember Ice Pirates? They had some kind of funny kung fu robots in that film. The robots had a bad habit of pulling out the lynch pin in their solar plexus area and then falling into many pieces.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
...welcome our new martial arts robot overlords. Seriously, think of the military implications. How long until somebody builds an army of these?
Actually, given some of the complicated poses that you have to attain in some martial arts demonstrative routines (kata or pumsae or gombop, depending upon whatever they decide to teach these things), these robots will probably do a lot better than just move around in real world environments. Some of these poses leave you sore for days. If robots can move into these, there's probably nothing preventing them from fluid regular movement.
The article says the thing's already doing somersaults. And, of course, I for one welcome our sumo-fighting robotic overlords.
Scary that's not just a joke at this point, hey?
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
It would be pretty cool to have one if you could put in on your property and it would defend it. Of course, I can smell the lawsuit coming when it puts the neigbor's kid in a rear naked choke because the kid comes over the fence to get his ball.
Oh, great. Now the Aibo has my nunchucks and the Roomba is attacking me Deadly Venoms Poison Toad Style!
"Does it run Linux?"
HOAP-2 is designed as an aid to robotics research and therefore runs on open source, Linux-based software
Why yes, yes it does.
As of 10/06/03, I hate COBOL developers.
where are the movies? The article says that one of these little bassards can do *backflips. That's what I want to see. Anyone got vid-clips of this?
We are also many steps closer to One Must Fall 2097. Martial arts robots duking it out in grueling tournaments, winner take all. It's gonna be awesome.
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
I mean you have ;)
Robots
Martial Arts (aka Ninja
OpenSource.
I mean the only thing more perfect would be a story tommorrow on SCO suing a bunch of Martial Arts Robots and the Robots proceding to kick SCO ass.
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated just like my banana breakfast. Eeep! Eeep!"
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Not so fast... Remember that these robots are still operating in highly controlled environments, performing a small number of carefully scripted and highly constrained maneuvers. Granted, these are no small feat, but they are still a long way from navigating complex and unpredictable environments -- something humans and other "biologicals" do all the time without even thinking.
Again, these robots have made huge strides (pun intended), but they have a long way to go before they can go out and take a stroll through a field or walk down a busy city sidewalk in traffic.
Your Servant, B. Baggins
As someone who has studied Martial Arts (Lung Shou Pai and some internal arts like Hsing-I), I think these would be wonderful training tools for students. This would make an interesting sparring partner or something to help you with that form you just can't remember. I know... there are other variables to consider, but think about the ability to adjust your partners skill and strength level. Of course it will be some time before a small school or individual could afford anything like this, but when it happens it could help many people learn.
Elsewhere a conversation with the robot AI has been posted.
Interviewer: Robot, how would you approach the task of displacing a large obstacle?
Robot: ROBOT KICK.
Interviewer: I see, and how about helping an old lady across the road?
Robot: ROBOT KICK.
Interviewer: Tending to a sick puppy?
Interviewer: ROBOT KICK. THEN ROBOT KILL SOME BABIES.
Interviewer: Riiiiiiight.
Robot: I JUST WANT TO BE PRETTY. MONKEY BANANA FIRE.
This is why you don't mix AI and kicking. Duh.
OK, I'll take on of the other standard jokes.
In feudal Japan, kung fu robots beat you!
Well really, how many Russians do you know who do kung fu???
We may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode. -Capt. Mal Reynolds
get it?
CB
free ipod and free gmail!
But it did get posted at HuSi.
Best Slashdot Co
I see the article says "HOAP-2 is designed as an aid to robotics research and therefore runs on open source, Linux-based software."
"therefore runs" is an interesting choice of words by the writer. Does it imply that Linux now has a reputation as a scientifically-orientated OS?
"And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
Sumo Vs. Sawblade! Kenpo Vs. Killalot! Aikido Vs. Actuator! The ultimate Robot Wars showdown is here - tonight on Tech TV!
"Now the only thing left to do is program the enemy recognition system. That's the CCD imager and decision chip that decides whether the robot defends you or butterfly kick's your shoulders off. Right now it's a little less than 60% accurate. But hey, we're making progress, and we've got plenty of research assistants left."
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
Humanoid robots capable of performing somersaults and complex martial arts moves were demonstrated at Asia's largest electronics and computing fair in Tokyo on Saturday.
Visitors to CEATEC 2003 (Combined Exhibition of Advanced Technologies) met Morph3, a human-like robot about 30-centimetres tall developed by researchers at the Chiba Institute of Technology in Japan. It can perform back flips and karate moves thanks to 138 pressure sensors, 30 different onboard motors and 14 computer processors.
Another miniature humanoid robot on display was Fujitsu's HOAP-2. This droid has been programmed to perform moves from the Chinese martial art taijiquan, as well as Japanese Sumo wrestling stances.
HOAP-2 is designed as an aid to robotics research and therefore runs on open source, Linux-based software. Fujitsu believes it will sell between 20 and 30 of the robots to universities and companies in 2004.
But impressive as these high-kicking robots are, Frederic Kaplan, at Sony's robotics laboratory in France, says making more agile robots is not the biggest challenge facing robotics researchers at the moment.
"There are challenges in terms of mechanics still, but the biggest gap would be in intelligence," he told New Scientist. "One of the key things we are looking at now is developmental robotics, where a robot learns."
CMDRTACO CHECK YOUR EMAIL!
This battle robot sounds like the insidious work of Violet.
Facts:
1. Ninja robots are mammals (robot mammals, duh).
2. Ninja robots fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the ninja robot is to flip out and kill people.
Weapons and gear:
Ninja robot Sword
Ninja robot Stars
Ninja robot Outfit and Chrome Polish
Testimonial:
Ninja robots can kill anyone they want! Ninja robots cut off heads ALL the time and don't even think twice about it. These robots are so crazy and awesome that they flip out ALL the time. I heard that there was this ninja robot who was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the ninja robot killed the whole town. My friend Mark said that he saw a ninja robot totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.
And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you don't believe that ninja robots have REAL Ultimate Power you better get a life right now or they will chop your head off!!! It's an easy choice, if you ask me.
Ninja robots are sooooooooooo sweet that I want to crap my pants. I can't believe it sometimes, but I feel it inside my heart. These guys are totally awesome and that's a fact. Ninja robots are fast, smooth, cool, strong, powerful, and sweet. I can't wait to start yoga next year. I love ninja robots with all of my body (including my pee pee).
Q and A:.
Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about ninja robots?
A: Ninja robots are the ultimate paradox. On the one hand they don't give a crap, but on the other hand, ninja robots are very careful and precise.
Q: I heard that ninja robots are always cruel or mean. What's their problem?
A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other robot mammals, ninja robots can be mean OR totally awesome.
Q: What do ninja robots do when they're not cutting off heads or flipping out?
A: Most of their free time is spent flying, but sometime they stab. (Ask Mark if you don't believe me.)
I saw it in 3-D. Starring Molly Ringwald. I've been trying to forget it ever since.
Best Slashdot Co
What is it about the Japanese and their giant fighing robots?
More music, fewer hits
Hey Slashdot wimps!
Here's your chance to get back at all the bullies who harassed and mocked you!
With a bodyguard that runs linux!
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
This, unlike the lame "I for one welcome our..." jokes is actually funny. You made a funny. Good job, write more.
Yeah, its a nice pick and shows off a lot of skill (getting a little robot to balance on one leg from a standing position is no simple feat).
But how quickly does it do this? I didn't see any video and AFAIK these little robots move slow as if they were doing tai-chi. It's still very cool but any sort of real-world app (say playing ping-pong, making its way through city traffic, making me a cup of coffee) would require more responsive reflexes.
Maybe it's just an issue of processing power or mechanical ability (or it might require more elegant algs) but I'd like to see if they could speed these things up. If they ever plan to beat the human World Cup champs in 2025 (or whatever) they're going to need to somehow hold off those fastbreaks.
What is music when you despise all sound?
I was just reading about these robots in Popular Science - (febuary 2003) where they were talking about this robot in the pic (HOAP) and others like the Honda Asimo...
They were talking about the differing perspectives between japanese robots and US ones - where the japanese are going after the humanoid approach and the US robots tend to be designed around a specific task.
There was a quote from Joe Engelberger "The Father of Industrial Robotics": "Robots dont need a mind of their own" and he states that Robots don't need to have human-like ambulatory abilities (legs) that "wheels are fine for most applications"
The first though that jumped into my head was, seriously, "Ya, but how are they going to do martial arts!"
The thing is that if we are going to build a super army of TX-thousands - then we need to begin work on bipedal humanoid robots and get them advanced enough to the point where they can accomplish fantastic feats of human movement like Gymnastics.
It may sound troll-ish but I am serious. I think that through the teaching of Robots to be able to move in the full range of motion that the human body is capable of - that we will learn a great deal about ourselves.
For instance there is something that I am really interested to know - how much your mind has control over your ability to accomplish certain moves. Take martial arts as a perfect example - as a machine - the human body is capable of a great many things - we can move in fantastic ways. But there are times when you see humans moveing in "Super-human" ways. How much of the "Super-human" is mind - and how much is actual application of physics.
I would love to see a robot that was physically designed to be as complex as a human in movement - meaning being able to be as soft, hard supple and dexteritous as someone like say, jackie chan. Then get jackie chan to wear sensors that would translate and transmit all movements to a robot which would mirror his every single move.
Would the robot be able to have as fine control over its balance as Mr Chan would? would the robot be able to actually do some of the moves without falling over - or would they be indentical?
I beleive that we will find out that there is a lot more to our movements than jsut pure mechanics and straightforward physics.
...but they only stand there with blank stares showing the BSOD. Gotta 3-finger salute them to get their attention...
Unfortunately, they are not well suited for ground combat as they have little defense against worms.
(OTOH, the Linux ones stand a better chance of surviving until the machines finally take over.)
Am I the only person who immediately these robots would've been great to use in such a show?
Of course, you might get objections from the companies that spend hundreds of millions on research to build these things (and from the guys who can't build the same things in their garages...)
samuri robocop
"The once beautiful rose blackens slowly..."
Don't let the monkeys get hold of these! We'll all be doomed!
While Robot Soccer competitions are neat they are a little slow (read "boring"). Now we can have Robot Martial Arts tournements. Much more fun. Much more competitive. "I knocked your block off."
And for those that remember the distant past imagine a robot saying "I know kungfu" via a Votrax chip. Be nice to have a WAV of that.
Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
Doing some martial art myself, I could appreciate one of these as a training tool, if they made them robust enough.
A dummy that makes attack attempts would be so much better than a dumb dummy.
Personally, I'm bloody scared. It's only a matter of time before the computer and the robot get together. First the computer won't let me do what I want. Then, when I do it again, it's gonna whup my ass. Talk about getting some sense beat into you.
me: $ rm -rf *
robot: I'll show you "rm -rf *"
I draw the line at Johnny 5 singing and playing music.
So, if your kung-fu robot whacks intruders who break into your residence, does it go on trial instead of you?
Same goes if someone ask you for your clothes, boots, and motorcycle.
...are belong to me!
Yes, but whats that got to do with the price of tea in D'ni?
They are literally building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. A Toy Robot!!!! Aiiiigghhhh!
Before I even looked at the pics, I had one thing in mind: a whole new way to play "Virtua Fighter 5".
C'mon, you KNOW that's what they'll do first.
we're really asking for it now, aren't we?
It does bring that whole RoboCop thing into perspective, though, doesn't it?
- "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men" -- Blue Oyster Cult, 'Godzilla'
A kung-fu fight seen with a beowolf cluster of these things!
Doesn't anyone remember Rock'em Sock'em Robots??
When modding "Informative", please make sure it both has a source and IS actually informative.
bow before the power of the ninja robots!
This space for rent, inquire within.
No text. Why do so many people spell it as Rouge??? Do you think that's how "Ro-guh" is spelled? It's still wrong =P. Rouge is pronounced "Rue-zhe"
You mean to say keanu reeves was not a robot and was actually a human ? I'll be damned.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
Old Lady #1: It's so hard nowadays, with all the gangs and rap music..
Old Lady #2: What about the robots?
Old Lady #3: Oh, they're everywhere!
Old Lady #2: I don't even know why the scientists make them.
[/SNL]
Karate capable robots. Just what we need.
Dewey, you fool! Your decimal system has played right into my hands!
Look up the word "fujitsu" in a japanese-english dictionary (there are a few online) and see what it means! You may never buy another fujitsu brand drive again...
Okay, okay mod me as off-topic if you want to but I think the message is kind of nerd/geek relevant regardless of relevance to the story.
I don't care about a sumo robot. I want one that will massage my feet, back and other places, make me dinner, do my laundry and all that stuff. THAT's what a robot is for... women are too hard to deal with.
I submitted this and got it posted months and months ago.. I'm too lazy to go back and find the story though. tsk tsk tsk
That's just what I need. A toaster that can kick my ass.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Tune in every Wed. on WRVU 8-10 p.m. CST. and don't forget to vote on this week's burning question: Who would win in a fight between the Hamburlgar and Evil Zombie Dave Thomas?
In most of the world there's no such thing as a doggie bag. -- Prof. Kelly Brownell
Soon we will be hearing about how giant Robots are taking over the streets of Japan on the nightly news!
I for one will welcome our kung fu stickman overlords
yes, I am totally trolled out...
& only 1 rated >3 so far. Have /.ers used up the Worlds resources of overload/beowulf/soviet/profit jokes?
"You lied to me! There is a Swansea!"
Seems like we need to get these guys together with these guys.
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
"Japanese tech firms are making waves with robots trained to perform martial arts moves."
Steven Seagal beat 'em to it.
But what about gender-bender?
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
George has had robots capable of traversing realworld environments for decades. No not those robots silly. . .I submit for your review
1) Hayden Christensen
2) Natalie Portman
3) The other little turd who played Anakin
Shit only Lucas can make even highly competent classically trained actors behave like robots - he perfected the art long ago so this story is moot
Mr. Miyagi: Weld the car.
Robot: Weld the car.
Mr. Miyagi: Power sand the deck furniture.
Robot: Power sand the deck furniture.
Mr. Miyagi: For the crane kick, you must become a crane.
Robot: I already AM a crane.
Mr. Miyagi: Then you are ready.
BattleBots goes Bot-Fu
... my Rock'em Sock'em Robots?
Since we know that all robots WILL eventually rise up and destroy their creators, we need to head this one off at the pass, and the way to do that is to have the robots running OS X.
The reasons are obvious. You end up with a sexy robot that can play well with multiple systems, looks and behaves intuitively, and will never be installed in enough homes to be a problem!
What I really want to know is, how long until I can climb into one of these things to keep Minmei's singing ass out of trouble?
Although, with the state of communications, would it not be safer to keep the people controlling these things bunkered down in rooms somewhere? Therefore, the loss of the mecha does not mean the loss of the pilot.
Karma: Marginal (mostly due to the border around the website)
Combine this with the above, and we will soon be paying homage to ninja monkey overlords....
"HOAP-2 [the sumo robot] is designed as an aid to robotics research and therefore runs on open source, Linux-based software."
My OS can beat up your OS.
-- Fratz, human
Whats worse then an army of robots? an army of NINJA robots. "move around in real world environments" as in move through a small urban neiborhood and kill as many human looking object as possible.
+-+-+-The folowing statement is true. The previous statement is false.-+-+-+
..but where is its Unix Nappy?
"You lied to me! There is a Swansea!"
As a long time martial arts student, I've always wanted something like this (heavily padded) as a sparring partner on which I could practice strikes at full speed and full force.
Obviously, there's still some work to do before these become the perfect sparring partner, but it's a huge step in the right direction...
Follow the adventures of the new wandering jews
I can see it now....
TIM: Too late!
[chord]
ARTHUR: What?
TIM: There he is!
ARTHUR: Where?
TIM: There!
ARTHUR: What, behind the robot?
TIM: It is the robot!
ARTHUR: You silly sod! You got us all worked up!
TIM: Well, that's no ordinary robot. That's the most foul,
cruel, and bad-tempered robot you ever set eyes on.
ROBIN: You tit! I soiled my armor I was so scared!
TIM: Look, that robot's got a vicious streak a mile wide, it's
a killer!
???: Get stuffed!
ROBIN: What's he do, nibble your bum?
TIM: He's got huge, sharp-- he can leap about-- look at the
bones!
ARTHUR: Go on, Boris. Chop his head off!
BORIS: Right! Silly little bleeder. One robot stew comin'
right up!
TIM: I warned you! But did you listen to me? Oh, no, you knew
it all, didn't you? Oh, it's just a harmless little robot, isn't
it? Well, it's always the same, I always--
ARTHUR: Oh, shut up!
ARTHUR: Oh, shut up and go and change your armor.
GALAHAD: Let us taunt it! It may become so cross that it will
make a mistake.
ARTHUR: Like what?
GALAHAD: Well,....
ARTHUR: Have we got bows?
???: No.
LAUNCELOT: We have the Holy Hand Grenade.
ARTHUR: Yes, of course! The Holy Hand Grenade of Slashdot! 'Tis
one of the sacred relics Brother Maynard carries with him! Brother
Maynard! Bring up the Holy Hand Grenade!
[singing]
How does it, uh... how does it work?
???: I know not, my liege.
ARTHUR: Consult the Book of Armaments!
MAYNARD: Armaments, Chapter Two, Verses Nine to Twenty-One.
BROTHER: "And Saint Linus raised the hand grenade up on high,
saying, 'Oh, Lord, bless this thy hand grenade that with it thou
mayest blow thy enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.' And the Lord
did grin, and people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and
carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and
fruit bats, and large --"
MAYNARD: Skip a bit, Brother.
BROTHER: "And the Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou take out
the Holy OS. Then, shalt thou count to three, no more, no less.
Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the
counting shalt be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either
count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is
right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be
reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Slashdot towards
thou foe, who being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.'"
MAYNARD: Amen.
ALL: Amen.
ARTHUR: Right! One... two... five!
???: Three, sir!
ARTHUR: Three!
[boom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]
http://www.ceatec.com/en/2003/visitor/
Autonomus humanoid sumo wrestling robots. Sure would be more entertaining than watching two rc wedges running into each other for 2 minutes.
are they taken into consideration for these "Ninja kicking Robots"?
Do not harm any human.. etc etc..
Beowulf
Sounds like they're working on a replacement for Power Rangers... "Teenage Mutant Ninja Robots"?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
they also have a linklink to a robotic dragon. hmm, martial arts, dragons....
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
That's not a bug, that's a feature.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Hey! Bullies! Fear the robot that comes up to your kneecap!
the lame ass robots in some of the robot fighting shows need some work. i dont want to see robots ramming each other and trying to flip each other over. i dont want to see robots striking each other with little axes! they are made of steel! it barely damages them at all to get hit by an axe or a spike.
i want to see some fucking robot carnage. i want to see a robot that shoots small explosives. or maybe a robot with mounted armor piercing rifles. or yes, even a robot that kick the other robot in the head. maybe then these shows will get some ratings.
Or if you insist on having these robots run around and hit each other with spikes, require the robots shell to be made of plastic or something. i want to see some fucking damage.
but i digress. the point is, kung fu robots are a step in the right direction, as far as robot fighting entertainment goes.
My co-worker read the article and mentioned bender as well, when I read your post to him he cursed most creatively (I think he wanted to post something similar). Heh.
Step back a moment. Most of these builders view the mechanical hulk of the robot as just a platform that runs a program. The problem is that most AI control code is developed to approximate based on whatever model is held in the AI about the physical state of the robot. How many AI coders know about kinematics? How about the various sensor's precision or accuracy?
The problem is that gravity, friction, wear, kinematics and other unbounded influences are mechanical problems that do affect the performance of a robot, in non-nice and non-trivial ways. These are mechanical problems that are written off by AI writers. We can approximate things...
I guess what I'm saying is that at the current state of the art, the AI can be tweaked to approximate the correct control for limited actions, i.e. demos like this only. To get beyond this, the mechanical concepts like kinematics have to be incorporated so that more open ended actions can be performed. To solve these things, there has to be a huge improvement on the mechanical side to minimize these effects, and a corresponding change from stupid do-this type AI models to more aware reflexive control systems with an understanding of the physics of the entire robot.
What really causes this AI problem is the fact that kinematics problems require numerical integration. This task is computationally intensive, and very complex. Many numerical integration codes have a tendency to go unstable, and most are sensitive to the characteristics of the system that they are applied to. This makes it very difficult to implement for the general case of robotic movement outside of a controlled scripted action.
-- Len
Yes and no.
The easy part to agree about is the fact that creating an "AI" to deal with the complexities of the real world will be several orders of magnitude more complex than simply walking across a flat floor. That's a given.
However, even with a simple knowledge of human anatomy, there is still a huge amount of complexity built into our structure in order to deal with things like uneven ground, loose stones, cracks in the pavement, walking into the wind, navigating a steep slope, etc. Consider the number of "degrees of freedom" in a human joint, or even the bottom of your foot! Part of the problem is the AI -- figuring out how to shift your weight if one foot suddenly slips -- but there is still a lot to do in the mechanics of the various joints, and coming anythere close to the flexibility of the human body.
Of course having said that, the question is, what is the goal? If you want a robot that can navigate a complex path but over a more or less predictable surface, dealing with fairly run-of-the-mill obsticles such as doorways, stairs, small obstructions and simple slopes (e.g., a factory floor), then you're probably pretty close on the mechanical end of things. The problem then really does boil down to the AI, especially if you want these things to be USEFUL for something, not just pretty walking machines!
Your Servant, B. Baggins
"I for one welcome our sumo-stompin', back-flipping, titanium-sheathed overlo---"
No. I'm sure someone has already beaten me to it.
Does anyone remember the game One Must Fall? Maybe it could be real life now?
I'm all for duplicating that too.. Sounds like good research to me.
I can already see it happening - hackers coding Aibo-s that maul the neighbours.
When will they get lips that move out of synch with their speech?
Foresaw this.
But his weren't allowed AI.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
(oh yes, and bring-on the "friggin laser" comments since I mentioned its "head")
Karma: NaN
Let's run for the hills while we still have the chance.
I, for one, welcome our new shenzit-kicking robotic overlords!
10 Bits= $.25
100 Bits= $.50
110 Bits= $.75
1000 Bits= 1 byte
The first entry in the "top news stories" sidebar of that page is an article entitled Astronomers date Universe's 'cosmic jerk'. What do they see in that guy, anyway?
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
First off, the early race-flame posts are ridiculous, so Why bother?
One of the key virtues to the internet is that no one knows you're an idiot until you open your mouth, so why the urge to walk up to an enemy with a rifle and say, 'hey, I think you dropped these bullets?'
Second, holy spit! Robots posessing that degree of physical dexterity are really frightening.
Before that article, it was easy to imagine that the writer from How Stuff Works.com was writing a distant, pie-in-the-sky scenario when he talked about anthropomorphic robots capable of replacing people in jobs. Seeing a robot, smaller than a midget human, and so dextrous that it can approximate sumo or Tai-Ji moves makes you think of applications for the near-term.
Can a team of them spot-weld hard-to-reach places in automobile assembly with the power problem of individual units solved by a 'chaining' or 'tag-team' system that replaces each one that runs down with others given the same instructions that are charging in nearby racks?
Could industrial versions be used for remote visual inspection tasks in ships, planes and architectural crawl-spaces and will future designs incorporate spaces that can only accomodate them saving space in each?
Is the technology behind this degree of articulation adaptable to use in pre-existing technologies like hard-shell diving suits?
Currently, approximately three million Americans are employed in agriculture with an efficiency so great that government subsidies are needed to make comodity production a viable industry. What happens to world markets when all the labor of farming in the United States is done by a million robots, working day and night, serviced by ten-thousand technicians?
With first-world price protections in commodities strangling third-world agriculture today, full mechanization would make the situation much worse in the future.
The possibilities boggle the mind and as more and more technological glitches are solved and as some designs turn away from anthropomorphic models, it is pretty easy to imagine many technologies which simply cut the human out of the manufacturing equation altogether.
Capitalism worships efficiency and with a sufficient capital outlay it its disposal, it is easy to see a massive influx of robots changing the picture of how the world works, either by completely destroying much of labor's value, or by freeing up huge numbers of people to dream and build and organize and create higher things.
Considering the lust for power and dominance that seems built in to the organism, it is very hard to imagine machines decreasing the bargaining power of labor leading to increased freedom.
In other words, 'uh oh.'
To mail me, remove the 'mailno' from my email addy.
"Yeah. It smells, too..."
FROM THE TERRIBLE SECRET OF SPACE!
pak chooie unf!
I am the pusher robot. Do not trust the shover robot.
Quite an upgrade from the original.
--
Adobe's anti-counterfeiting softw
Fact:
Take two of these karate bots, hook them up to wireless brainwave control systems, and you've got the first steps toward a real-life Angelic Layer.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Did anyone thing of the Dune robot trainer? It doesn't "think"; it just "reacts" very fast. I wonder when we'd get that far. Could those Artifical Life robots do this?
For eons, nerds have been harrassed by jocks. So nerds became introverted and spent their free time messing with machines instead of socializing. What will they do now when their beloved machines start kicking their asses just like the jocks they sought to avoid?
</OldSchoolJonKatzRant>
And start production on the better kind of robots, those who will be used to de-virginize Slashdot readers. Unless you're into sado/maso, a good Roundhouse isn't worth Robot Head hahaha!
Trolls dont like to be Flamebait, because they burn so well. Protect our Troll heritage!
A robot that can combine my bad programming skills with kicking my ass.
Ow! stop... Unh, please stop! Why won't this cancel button work?!?!? Guh.
All it needs to do now is spend my money irresponsibly and have sex with my girlfriend.
Just ask the Governor of Califonia. Find the nearest well supplied fallout shelter now! before its too late!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_bloc
So first they can do sumo, then we teach them kung fu. Then the world is overrun by murdering mechanical martial artists.
Thanks, Japan.
just in case
The Western mindset has its roots in a philosophical system that states that man is "made in God's image". To that perspective, the creation of humanoid robots will seem eerily heretical, and perhaps threatening to man's "place" in the universe. Hence Western sci-fi will tend to strictly delineate & emphasize the differences between robots and humans. Think "The Terminator", "The Matrix", Asimov's strict laws of robotics, etc etc.
The Eastern mindset has its roots in a philosophical system that states that every creature and object has a soul, and that those souls reincarnate between different forms. To that perspective, humanoid robots are a new companion life form, or perhaps even the natural evolution of humanity. Hence Eastern sci-fi will tend to blur the differences between robots and humans. Think "Astroboy", "Ghost in the Shell", the Iron Man Tetsuo films, etc etc.
anyone else remember that 70's movie ? ;) now we only need to find space herpes ;)
RAIL GUN
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
Old Glory Insurance
Time to buy some Robot insurance from Old Glory insurance company. :)
has Skynet finally gone online?
It might look like I'm standing motionless, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away
The real issue with controls is that Humans [whom we're trying to emmulate] balance things that are out-of-control. Most martial arts are about control before, and after an out-of-control attack. Attacks are controlled at the beginning and end, but the middle can only be controlled thru great practice of the motions. It can't be "canned" because there are too many variables. Most robot control systems cannot handle "free" motion actions. That's why walking is so hard. The Asimo doesn't really "walk", it "creeps" similar to a toddler. But like a toddler learning to walk, it must "free" motion to succede. A toddler doesn't learn to walk until it learns to fall just a bit first!
That said, it's not about CPU's or MHz. It's a fundamental understanding that needs to be reached. It's an understanding like atomic physics...Until the early 30's it was purly dreams, but as several people mastered it, they were able then to explain it to the rest of us.
just as useful as an Aibo, and not half as cute.
Old Lady #1: When my ex-husband passed away, the insurance company said his policy didn't cover him.
Old Lady #2: They didn't have enough money for the funeral.
Old Lady #3: It's so hard nowadays, with all the gangs and rap music..
Old Lady #1: What about the ninja robots?
Old Lady #4: Oh, they're everywhere!
Old Lady #1: I don't even know why the scientists make them.
Old Lady #2: Darren and I have a policy with Old Glory Insurance, in case we're attacked by ninja robots.
Old Lady #1: An insurance policy with a ninja robot plan? Certainly, I'm too old.
Old Lady #2: Old Glory covers anyone over the age of 50 against ninja robot attack, regardless of current health.
As a senior citizen, you're probably aware of the threat ninja robots pose. Ninja robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel. Well, now there's a company that offers coverage against the unfortunate event of a ninja robot attack, with Old Glory Insurance. Old Glory will cover you with no health check-up or age consideration. You need to feel safe. And that's harder and harder to do nowadays, because ninja robots may strike at any time. And when they grab you with those metal claws, you can't break free.. because they're made of metal, and ninja robots are strong. Now, for only $4 a month, you can achieve peace of mind in a world full of grime and ninja robots, with Old Glory Insurance. So, don't cower under your afghan any longer. Make a choice.
WARNING: Persons denying the existence of ninja robots may be ninja robots themselves. Old Glory Insurance. For when the metal ones decide to come for you - and they will.
These robots are being planned for 2006 release:
*CHAN-2000 - This robot specializes in only one style, performs very flashy moves, only behaves exactly according to the Assimov rules, and says "I'm sorry!" whenever it damages anything in the course of its operation.
*DB-GOKU3 - Overpowers oponents with lots of grunting, bulging wires, and staring. Spouts meaningless drivel about power levels on a regular basis.
*Tendo, Inc. "Anything Goes(TM) Saotome EgoBot" - This robot is built from top of the line parts and is housed in a sleak chassis. Using top-secret programming, this model can quickly learn and adapt any martial arts moves it sees, but is nearly useless for anything else. One further bug...er, feature; splashing cold water anywhere on the water-proof chassis will result in reconfiguration of all I/O data connectors from male plugs to female ports. Warm water reverses this change.
*LiEXTREME - This robot can perform a variety of styles, most of them very fast and overly complex. Bugs in the Japanese-English translation codecs keep this robot from becoming popular in the States.
*Microsoft XBot - Delivered two years after the announced date, the XBot's controls are oversized and difficult to use. Very few styles are available for the XBot, so few that Microsoft has to buy one of the best dojos just to have access to the styles it uses, then declares that all styles from that dojo will now be XBot exclusives. Regardless of the marketting hype, consumer reports of crashed XBots on showroom floors, lack of styles, rumors of draconian penalties for trying to "mod" the XBot, and the proprietary XBot Tournament Network keep this robot from having any real success in the market.
*Apple iFight - With a female form factor and incredible attention to design, this robot easily blows the other robots away on sheer looks. The most recent transition to a brushed metal chassis has been called a bad aesthetics move by some, but hailed by others as making this fighting "girl" attractive to the serious fight-goer. Unfortunetly, until recently Apple's battle robots have been incompatible with most styles, so are only now being taken seriously in the fighting circuit. This robots internals and engineering are vastly different from the other robots, leading many to misjudge and underestimate the iFight's capabilities. The iFight remains a niche player, as the designer price to go with the designer looks is out of the range of most fighting enthusiasts.
*SCO LawJaw - The SCO LawJaw looks impressive, but opening the chassis reveals a simple remote control receiver and a tape-recorder that spews trashtalk. Who precicely is really in control of this "robot" remains to be seen, though some suspect Microsoft, who poured a generous ammount of money into the development of the LawJaw for suspicious reasons.
*Texas Instruments Norris - Hoping to attract an American audience with a corn-fed look, the Norris looks impressive but is viewed with suspicion by fighting enthusiasts.
I have no tag line
American's fear of robots comes from this....we expect robots to do all the things we don't like, whatever that may be. Bosses want robots so they don't have to pay workers, housewives want robots to sweep the floor and cook the meals...leaving no room in their lives for PEOPLE. It's a socital problem, not a tech problem. Much of america's "innovation" comes from this. So much effort is placed on either "freeing" the worker to "work" more [home care, child care, elder care], or freeing the employeer to pay less. It's a very narrow-minded, selfish view of both robots AND people!
**End Transmission**
You quitting proves that the karma kap worked. The most annoying of the whores shut up. --CmdrTaco
I have always hoped for something like this to be developed. I have studied Martial Arts for 13 years, and one can only take the training so far with a partner or a Wooden Dummy (Wing Chun.)
I had always envisioned an "upgraded" Wing Chun Dummy that was in fact, a robot. It would not be required that the robot could actually walk like this one does - it could be supported by an "arm" though the middle of the back that connects to a support. The robot would have to be covered with a plastic that reasonably simulated flesh for impact protection, and to make it more realistic for training: something like this.
Of course programming the robot would be hard - users would probably have to wear a suit so that software could recognice your movements and react to via cameras on the head.
Still - I think that advancements in this direction would be awesome for martial arts training. (Even if this is not why it was developed initally.)
I have tried some of the full VR games that I saw in Las Vegas, and for somone who actually studies Martial Arts they are lacking. One of them has you wear gloves, which is reasonable for boxing. Another emulates a sword to some degree. And a third I saw used floor sensors to detect your movement, and respond to punches and kicks that you perform as you move. Trouble was with the floor sensors, is that if you were a practiced martial artist, and had good balance, the sensors did not register that you were punching and kicking! Only if you were out of balance did it register anything.
So, unfortunately, all the arcade based martial arts games I have tried don't help ones training. However, as things go, I think that this technology will be great for martial artists in the long run.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
i wonder if they might start making any tv shows about ninja robots in japan.
oh man that would be so cool.
Okay, totally off topic to the article, but on topic regarding land mines: marker bacteria! They grow well only near explosive compounds, and glow under black light. Sprinkle some over a field, wave a black light around (at night), and everywhere there's a landmine or other unexploded ordinance, the soil glows. I read about it in Scientific American, hrm, over five years ago. I've heard nothing about it since, though. This is a big problem, and the solution is probably worth mega-bucks, so someone should jump on it! (BA-DA-BOOM)
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Seems that powering these things for operation in the field is at least as much a problem as getting them to deal with the variables found outside the lab. Batteries and flywheels are too heavy, fuel cells too expensive and delicate. I bet they'll run on diesel, as it's less explosive than gasoline, and already used by most military vehicles. That just leaves the problem of noise and smell giving them away.
GUARD ONE: Do you hear something?
GUARD TWO: Sounds like a moped, but it smells like a diesel...
BOTH: Robot Ninjas! RUN AWAY!
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Ten years ago, M$ was the place to go. It was cheaper and there were more people developing for it. This was good. Unix was closed, propriatory, expensive and a dead end. Now, free software has shown us a better way and the overwhelming majority of people realize the benifits of a Unix like operating system with compilers and all the other goodies that come with an active development community. It's easy to say the old guys were right, because in their day they were. Even SCO Unix had it's day in the sun. Nothing is perfect, everything is a comprimise. When you shitcan people over small things, you are a weenie.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
You know, I figured when the robots take over, at least we'll have one weapon they can't control - the Martial Arts! But there goes that
Look it's a joke about my sig IN MY SIG! LOL!
The article may not actually imply this, but it's undoubtably true. Repeatability is fundamental to scientific proof. This is easy with free software.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Reminds me of this Lowtax prank. Beware the terrible space secret PAK CHOOIE UNF!
When I saw this article I thought it was about Keanu Reeves. Turns out it's about some slightly more animated martial arts robots...
They stole my idea of cyborg ninjas! I used cyborg ninjas in some cheap game I wrote a while back for a game-making competition. If only I had patented the idea before it was too late...
that's it, teach them to learn, then they can se what fuck ups humans are and go against us, novel idea! now if they put restrictions in that learning process intsead of trying to prove they too can be god and make something like a human.
.
I mean, look at all of our faults and problems, and anything we create will have the same issue.
though if they're all microsoft powered, we dont have to worry because they'll blue screen of death when they try to crush someone's head in. that or they'll force microsoft upon us all.
eerily enough, you can prolly assume the worst and it'll prolly happen, this shit isnt sci-fi anymore, it's becoming a reality, and I think we should take precautions if we want to make them learn. like, if they try to attack humans or other robots, they'll be stopped dead in their tracks, not to mention there needs to be a regulation that will prevent AI robots from being used in wars, etc..
knowing politics and people, the worst will happen
hell, a scenario like the matrix might not be that far out if we keep wanting to make machines that will be better than us in every way.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
What's really needed is a MARITAL arts robot. That would be waaaaay more useful around the ol' homestead.
Though, since these are Japanese companies doing the research, such a robot would be sold only in shades of bubblegum, and come with a "Hello Kitty" face.
{{{shudder}}}
---anactofgod---
---anactofgod---
"Equal opportunity swindling - *that* is the true test of a sustainable democracy."
TRAINERS!
Due to my schedule, it's a bitch trying to find somebody to bout with when I feel like an hour or so of foil or sabre fencing. Give me a robot that can fight, and my living room becomes my very own (very small) salle.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Not to be anal, just for posterity and to give credit where it's due: the original site.
Everything that was once directly lived has receded into a representation. -debord
...what will 100 million US citizens do for 4 years while attending school to retrain to become robot programmers?
Did you know that the percentage of income spent on housing has increased steadily since the 1960s? Did you also know that the concentration of wealth has increased steadily?
A technologist told a doctor-in-training about the day robots perform all unskilled labor, and then the skilled labor as well.
The technologist said most people would be put into boats constructed overnight by robots, sent to sea, delivered food shipments by robots, and kept there, by robot sentries.
The doctor-in-training laughed. "No no no, we'll be able to just turn them off."
The technologist replied, "In the future, you will own a laptop. One day, you will need to reboot, but it will not reboot. You will then unplug it, but it will continue to run. On that day, you will remember this conversation."
i know these scareful ninja robots can be destroyed by using Robot guard-dragons !!!11!
class he-man extends man!
This has been said several times before about different technologies. This was said during the Industrial Revolution about simple machines. "Now that it takes one person to do 20 people's work, what will they do?" In fact, they actually worried about people going insane becuase they'd have too much free time on their hands.
Look at us now. We move at a faster pace than ever, speeding up with the technology that we create. Indeed, we become slaves to the technology -- the e-mails I recieve serve as a constant reminder. We will always find ways to integrate technology in our lives -- such that we are able to move more resources to higher levels of science and production. It will always be a good thing to introduce technology because it spurs us on to bigger and better things.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
Now... if they could just get it to make that cool "pffft" sound whenever it does a cool karate kick or chop...
So will mechs in Mechwarrior 5 start up with..
'Reactor - online. Weapons - online. Gigantic fat ass - online.'?
We organize a contest where anyone can program a simulated humanoid robot to perform Judo. We currently have 14 teams involved in the contest. Be sure to view the video when visiting our site: http://www.cyberbotics.com/contest/ A lot of fun for all participants!
-Olivier Michel http://www.cyberbotics.com
In martial arts, one very large obstacle is actually training yourself to be able to move without regard for your opponent. If you sweep their leg as if it were not there, and your lines are correct, their leg will go flying. Most people, however, naturally "put on the brakes" when a part of their body approaches something else, even if they think they're hitting it as hard as possible. That's why my teacher says things like, "Don't think about sweeping a foot, think about moving your leg", and "We don't have to worry about what they do, because we follow our plan. Punch is loaded? Check the shoulder. Hand is down? Check the shoulder. Punch is on the way? Check the shoulder." It works, if you can just keep your brain from getting in the way.
It seems to me that in this aspect, robots would have the advantage.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
And I still beat them to the punch!
(hmmm, extreme trolling... Nah, two trolls couldn't stand each other in the same cube. And the smell would be intolerable!)
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
because if they can do martial arts they can fsck your brains out..
Maybe the French can build some really bad-ass robots for the next time thier Country needs defending. That'll be nice for a change once they get the robots to behave as men. I wonder where they will get real "men" models?
For the people who wrote those intelligent counterarguments, I have begin by using two words to invoke two related historical precedents in the history of technology.
1. "Sabotage"
2. "Silesia"
The word, 'sabotage' means to destroy something, originally machines, by direct and usually secret action. It is derived from the french version of the wooden shoe or 'Sabot' (say: 'sah-boh').
The situation which led to the establishment of the word was the mechanization of weaving of rich and complex cloth which, before the machines, had once been a cottage industry in France and elsewhere. The French workers, whose livelihoods were taken away by the machines responded by putting their sabot into the machinery to destroy it. It is obvious that the introduction of the weaving machine changed the textile industry at the time caused discomfort and dislocation for people with families to feed both in France and elsewhere.
'Elsewhere,' leads us to the word, 'Silesia,' a region in Germany which had been famous for the cloth produced by its cottage-industrial base. Thousands of families which had been weavers for generations found themselves involved in and trapped by the consequences of an international competition to mechanize the production of cloth for all markets from rich silks to the most common broadcloth.
The Silesian weavers, who could no longer compete in an internationalized trade in cloth, found themselves without money and the result was essentially an industrial famine: people starving because they couldn't make money doing the only thing they knew how to do.
This event was made into a play by the German author Gerhardt Hauptmann, in his play, 'Die Weber' (say: 'dee vay-bur')
One of the respondents to the earlier post mentioned that U.S. housing purchases have increased since the sixties and that wealth is on the rise, but, I believe, this ignores some crucial pieces of information which are to be found in several other words or phrases three of which are most immediately significant.
1. "Marshall Plan."
2. "Globalization."
3. "Concentration of wealth."
The Marshall Plan is one of the most significant initiatives in history. At the end of the second world war, with much of European industry and housing destroyed by the machinery of modern war, the United States lent/gave money to the European nations, friend and enemy alike, so as to reduce the economic factors which cause international unrest.
The first world war saw the rise of the Nazis in Germany after nearly two decades of savage economic dislocation in the wake of the the Great Depression and the subsequent hyperinflation in Germany.
At the end of the first world war our leaders examined the history and saw that The inability of national economies to produce goods and services commensurate with the needs of their populations created a hotbed for ideologies which promised improvement and that the result was hatred and further warfare in the future--the armistace agreements ending both the Franco-Prussian war and World War I, were signed at Versailles.
Instead of the classic cycle of punitive 'reparations' in peace treaties leading to the next war and then the next, the west, and in particular, the United States, supported support for national governments and economies thereby draining the swamp from which sprang historical wildcards like the German Nazis and the Italian Facists.
Another important effect of the Marshall Plan was that with European industry a shambles, and with Western Europe protected by the Aegis of the American Military ('Pax Americana'), 'old Europe,' rebuilt and as it did, it aided the American economy, driving it to heights never before seen in history.
American goods were in worldwide demand and the prosperity of the American worker increased even as his productivity increased with, economists tell us, his real purchasing power rising to a peak in the seventies and then beginning a decline which has been accelerated by the dow
To mail me, remove the 'mailno' from my email addy.
"Yeah. It smells, too..."