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Videogames, HDTV and Widescreen 16:9?
Swerbo writes "I've been thinking about buying a widescreen HDTV-ready television for quite some time now, but being the geek that I am, I'm more interested in playing video games on it than on watching DVDs or HDTV. I couldn't find much on Slashdot about this (except some material on the new GTA3/VC box set), and most of the info on the Net is superficial or fact-based such as which games are available in 480p, 720p, 1080i, and/or 16:9. So, I couldn't think of a better place to ask: Has anyone been playing video games on HDTV and/or in 16:9 widescreen format? If so, what have your experiences been? Is it awesome? Does it suck? Does it justify the additional cost of an HDTV just to play 4:3 using 480p (since not much else is supported yet like 720p or 1080i with/without 16:9?) Or does your framerate drop and the games get choppy? What's the availability of HD games on the various console platforms, and why don't more games handle native 16:9 widescreen format (with extras like side-by-side split screen rather than vertical split-screen)?"
Xbox games have decent -> good support for 16:9.
MechAssualt come to mind, although the graphics don't stand up they offer vertical split multiplayer.
I haven't bought the additional hardware for my ZeldaCube, the cartoon Link looks just fine a little stretched.
Before I part with'em: two pennies weigh ~4.996+/-0.014g, have a zinc core, and the face of Lincoln. You can keep 'em.
Check out http://hdgames.net. There is some good info there.
You will want a plasma or LCD HDTV if you are going to be playing alot of video games because of the static images that alot video games have that will cause burn-in on the screen.
A lot of Gamecube games support 480p (almost the majority).
I also know, "Dragon's Lair 3D" (cool game by the way) supports 1080i on the XBox.
Hope that helped.
Political correctness is the newest form of slavery.
I recently just got an HDTV ready 54" tv which I just love. I have not thought about hooking up a game to it yet, but that may be because I don't play console games. I only play FPS on the computer. I would like to find ways to expand the field of view in my FPS games like Halo, that would be sweet, and I think help tremendously with gameplay.
I have a game cube and if a game supports 480p, it makes all the differance in the world. Metroid and Mario Sunshine are stunning. The only thing not supported much is 16:9, but for the few games that do support it (Eternal Darkness, F-Zero) it looks great. That's why I got a 36" 4:3 TV. Video games and normal TV are more common, and my tv does 16:9 well. There is no slow down at all with any of the progressive scan options in any of the games.
If you have to ask whether the additional expense is worth it, don't bother. There are few games that support the added resolution or the widescreen features, and many of the few that do suffer from slowdown issues.
.1% of console owners who have one.
The problem is that consoles are pushed as far as they can go during a development process... They just don't have an extra few thousand pixels lying around. Programmers can either spend additional time downtuning the graphics when a HDTV is detected, which makes a nasty mess of the simplicity that a console offers, or they can just ignore the
Most companies choose to ignore the HDTV crowd, and for good reason. The same reasons apply to widescreen... You can either redo all of your interface work, clipping planes, timing, surprises, etc, or you can give up on that very small portion of the market and invest those resources in making the game better for everyone.
If you are thinking of spending the 2k for a high-res gaming setup, why not spend that money on a really good gaming computer? True, you will have to re-buy everything in 5 years, but by that time the cost of an HDTV will have gone down enough to warrant developing games compatible with the display.
The ______ Agenda
It's been my experience that 480p console gaming on TVs over 32" doesn't look that great. Sure the image is crisp, but only 480 lines of res on a 42" screen just doesn't look that good. On my 32" HDTV with Monster component cables, both my PS2 and Xbox look great!
As for performance issues...none that I've ever seen.
I was buying a HDTV, Initially I wanted the 16:9 format television but after much soul searching and back account checking, I realized that the majority of my TV use is for video games and regular television. Not too much 16:9 support there.
.. I'd buy it again if I had to.
I went with a 36' Toshiba 4:3 format screen and it definitely rocks. FOr the once a month when I watch a widescren DVD, I can handle the black bars. For the rest of the time, I get my games in 480p (taking up the whole screen). 480p definitely looks much better, but you do notice the jaggies more often. Don't regret the purchase at all
(For the record, I've got a Gamecube, can't really speak for the xbox or PS2 HD support)
These pretzels are making me thirsty.
is for movies.
This topic should be on the front page, so it can get more than 20 comments. I'm looking into a Plasma screen TV too, and would like to know which games will be high-def or 16*9 aspect ratio. I've got a PS2 right now, but looking into an XBox next.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
The greatness and fanboyism that surrounds the other systems on /. aside, if you want a to play games on a big screen with good visuals and relative ease, then you need an Xbox. Limited only by the source material (in this case, the games themselves), the Xbox hardware supports 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i resolutions. The latter two resolutions (720p, 1080i) are inherently widescreen (16:9). 480p is a good resolution for 4:3. In the dashboard on the Xbox, you can access video settings to determine what output type you want: widescreen, letterbox, etc. and if you've got the HD pack or Monster HD cables for the 'Box, you can select which resolutions to output in (dependent, again, upon what the game supports). For the record, I've heard that all Xbox games support at least 480p, and I've not yet encountered one that doesn't. So, if you've got an Xbox and you are wondering whether it's worth it to buy an HDTV, the answering is a resounding 'yes.'
How do you fit a 36 foot screen in your living room?
Note that in the UK at least pretty much all new televisions are widescreen (bar crappy 14" portables). As such people would start to get a bit annoyed if games didn't take advantage of this. Certainly games like GTA/VC and FIFA make good use of the extra width to show peripheral vision and more pitch respectively.
if i want HDTV-sized images on anything bigger than a 21" computer screen, i'll get a DLP projector, some screen goo and a dark room. to get cool looking GFX on a console, make the screen bigger (32"+), to get good looking GFX on a computer, turn up the res and have a big (19"+) screen. I'd sure as hell like a DLP projector that can push a 72" 4:3 image onto a wall at a decent resolution, i.e 1280x1024 than a plasma that'll burn in.
Logistical Chaos Officer http://www.slagg.org - LAN Gaming in Sarasota FL,USA
Everytime a thread about anything home theater related the answer is the same -- go check out AVS Forum, it's answered there.
In this case go read the Home Theater Gaming/Console area and perhaps look into the Home Theater PC area. It's not clear if you were wanting to play PC games on your big screen TV (quite do able; for HD you'd want a TV with DVI input and a video card with DVI output) or console games (support varies widely, with the PS2 having the least support and the Xbox having the most).
As for why consoles don't support HD more -- it's simple. They don't have the power, and it's a great deal of additional development and QA time for a small segment of the market.
Consoles have really miserable resolution -- essentially 640x240 at 60 fps (NTSC; PAL is a bit more resolution at 50 fps). Yes, NTSC is roughly 640x480 resolution, but it's interlaced -- you don't have to draw half the screen every frame and you're foolish if you think the console games are doing so when they don't need to. If you change to a progressive scan picture then you're immediately at twice the work that needs to be done. Bump it up to a 720p 4:3 and you're nearly quadrupling the effort from there (or nearly 8x as much as a SD screen). Widescreen requires even more work. And remember, a 720p 4:3 image still has less resolution than a 1024x768 (XGA) monitor and only needs to run at a paltry 60 fps.
As for splitscreen -- if you split a 16:9 screen you don't get two 4:3 images. Supporting split screen 16:9 means you have to support at least 3 different aspect ratios... most likely you're already going to support horizontally split 4:3, so now it's 4 different aspect ratios. That's a whole lot of development and QA time, and probably not worth the effort (yet).
A few caveats -- gun games do not work with virtually any HDTV. The gun watches for the interlaced signal and most HDTVs (all digital systems, almost all RPs, and most FPs) will never display interlaced -- they upscale to progressive internally. If you want to play gun games then you'll need to move the system to an older CRT based TV.
If you use an Xbox, be aware that the Live console is still in 480i only. This can be an issue if you have a TV that has separate inputs for 480i/p and 480p/720p/1080i (all Samsung DLP RP's currently). There are ways around this (cable splitting, using a VGA adapter), but it's something to be aware of and consider when purchasing a TV.
If you do not get a DLP/LCD/LCoS based TV then you will have to be careful of burn-in. Proper calibration of the set can eliminate this danger, but most people don't calibrate. Plasma does have a burn-in issue as well, but it's not as severe as CRT.
I currently have my PS2 connected to my 46" Samsung DLP. No issues. Not many games support widescreen or 480p, but it really doesn't bug me. It's nice to play on a really big screen with a full surround system. I'm hoping to make my next PC portable enough to use as an occasional HTPC and play some games (HL2, D3) on it as well... should be a blast.
I have a PS2 and 65" Toshiba, and I'm as much a game-geek as anyone, but unless you have muchos dinero sitting around, I wouldn't advise purchasing an HD set primarily for gaming. PS2 and gamecube only seem to have limited support in the hardware for 16:9 HD. And although, X-box has the hardware, very few of the games support it. Unless you're into progressive scan widescreen DVD and HDTV (check on availability in your area too), I'd suggest something like a Sony Wega CRT until the next generation of consoles come out.
OK, here is the trick, this generation of consoles doesn't support HDTV, but the next generation will. Also, the HDTV Spec calls for a 16:9 formatted television. If you have bought a progressive scan 4:3 tv, you will have to watch TV letterboxed.
So the answer is, go ahead and buy your HDTV. You will love it. Your games will look great. Your next gen games will look even better. :-)
Dormous
Sounds like we're talking about consoles here.
Some PS2 games support 480p. Some XBox games support 720p. I believe some GameCube games support 480p. And not all games that support an HD display mode also support an explicit 16x9 mode. In fact, I've found little correlation between options for widescreen and options for progressive scan; many games support widescreen but *not* progressive scan. I'm betting that the newer the game is, the more likely it is to have HDTV support, however.
As another poster mentioned, check out hdgames.net. I don't know how comprehensive their list is, but it hasn't lied to me yet. Looking at their database for the PS2, they've got about 60 games listed that support 16x9, about 20 that support 480p, and about half of those that support 480p also support 16x9.
I just went from a standard def 32" tube to a 50" widescreen HDTV a couple months ago. The downside to this is you can see all the flaws in analog programming, simply because the display is so clear and so BIG. True HDTV programming is amazing, however. Videogames, however, have no signal noise to worry about, so all you get is a crystal clear picture. The downside here is that aliasing is much more obvious at the normal console resolution, simply because the pixels are so well defined. This is where progressive scan really helps, and for games that support it, it does look great.
16x9 support actually isn't as big a deal as you'd think. The reason is not that you'd rather play them in 4x3, but that HDTVs typically have nonlinear scaling modes that fit a 4x3 image to a 16x9 screen with little perceptible distortion. (In essence, they scale the picture more at the edges where less of the action is happening. It's only noticeable with some camera movements, or when watching the crawls on news stations.)
I should point out that in my experience, video games don't have the same aspect ratio problems as live TV, simply because they are not realistic enough. I'll play any videogame using one of these 4x3 to 16x9 scaling modes and feel perfectly comfortable with it. And then I get any game in full widescreen glory.
Also, I should point out that any time I put my PS2 in progressive scan mode, the picture does fill up the 16x9 screen on its own, whether or not there is an option to enable widescreen. I'm betting most games that support 480p, when they don't have an explicit option, will usually rescale things for widescreen automatically. Because of what I said above, however, it's sometimes hard to tell.
And yes, it rocks. No, I haven't noticed any framerate issues in 480p.
Now, I justified the cost of an HDTV without needing my video game addiction. I just used my normal DVD viewing addiction. And my TiVo addiction, but that was really about the size more than the hi-def. Could I justify it just for video games? Probably, yes, but the increased size is not an insignificant part of that.
If you are planning to have using tv for more than gaming, then I'd say definitely if you are willing to spend the money. I've played Halo on a widescreen tv and it was just incredible. If this is only for games though and you'll rarely use it for movies, don't bother. The price right now doesn't justify it.
with Component out cable and HDTV. You can play two player with vertical split instead of horizontal split screen. Makes it 1000 times better. And all the other cube games that support progressive scan r0x0r with the hdness. An HDTV is kinda expensive though, so unless you play games a lot or also use it for som DVD watching it may not justify the cost. But it is freakin' awesome.
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mmmm... "bunk"
Yup. This is one of the reasons I'm waiting for a really good HD DLP projector before making that kind of investment. I will say, however, that there are some CRT-based HD sets which aren't ideal but are inexpensive and have much better resolution than your typical TV. I managed to get a Zenith floor model set and it'll tide me over 'til I can get a triple-array, 1080i DLP projector.
Also, since it is DLP, there is no burn-in potential at all. According to Samsung's site, and a few others, no DLP television can ever suffer from burn in.
You are mostly right about the higher resolutions, though. The big issue is that few enough customers can take advantage of them, so it's not worth implementing them. The problem is not necessarily fill-rate (although that can be a factor), but that it affects gameplay. A 16:9 aspect ratio requires either displaying more stuff on the sides, or cutting off the top and bottom. In either case, it affects camera tuning, cutscene creation, and sometimes even level design (to accomodate the different visual presentation.)
I love widescreen games, though I have few of them. Madden 2003, GTA: Vice City, GT3. I wish there were more of them that used it.
Widescreen support in games is fustrating - in the UK the majority of new TVs (Well, certainly large living-room TVs) seem to be widescreen nowadays, and quite a lot of digital TV is broadcast in widescreen (The settop boxes adjust the picture to the type of TV you have). However, many games don't support widescreen at all, I think largely because it hasn't really caught on in the US yet. On the other hand, HDTV doesn't seem to exist over here at all, so I suppose it's swings and roundabouts...
Sadly, most games are still not designed for 16x9, and in fact, some of my favorite games just can't look good in 16x9 (Silent Hill 2/3, Metal Gear Solid), no matter what stretch mode you use (and I can't stand the grey sidebars). I end up playing them on a 4x3 TV elsewhere in the house.
Additionally, while a decent number of PS2 titles support 16x9, only a handful support 480p output (Tekken 4, Guilty Gear X...)
You must buy the HD A/V kit for the xbox to even get 480p. You have to order the component cables for the gamecube directly from nintendo to get 480p but the ps2 component cables are available everywhere.
I wouldn't say its quite worth it yet to get an HDTV just for gaming. Although a lot of games are starting to support 16:9 mode which is nice. Tony Hawk Underground, SSX3, Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando and Rogue Squadron III are all recent games that support 480p and 16:9 mode. I'm sure the next generation of consoles will have much more HDTV support. Most games look just fine stretched to 16:9 if they are native 4:3 though. I play all the games stretched and on most you can't really tell except during cut scenes.
4:3 programming doesn't have to have black bars on the side if you are worried about burn in. The sony/zenith directv HD receivers have a very good panorama mode that stretches the edges of the screen and you can barely tell its 4:3 stretched to 16:9. My sony HDTV also has wide zoom and zoom modes but it distorts the picture much more than panorama mode. I have been gaming on my big screen rear projection Sony HDTV for nearly 3 years and I have had nothing burn in.
Most game review sites do not list if a game supports HDTV or 16:9. I wish they would have a side bar on reviews listing which features it supports. However there are some websites that track which games support 480p and higher along with which have a 16:9 mode:
HdtvArcade
HdtvPub
HDGames (the best one in IMO)
Greg
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turns Pro" - Hunter S. Thompson
I own all three systems, as well as an 52" Wide RCA Projection HDTV. I pretty much only play Halo, and can tell you that there is a dramatic difference in the picture quality. The definition is amazing. It makes sniping from a distance dramatically easier. Because I have the HDTV cables hooked up to my Xbox, I also watch all my DVD's through it. Believe it or not, DVD's look better too. When you hook your Xbox up, It asks you whether you are playing on a 4:3 display tv, or widescreen. Because I let it know I have a wide screen, It always formats a game so it fits perfectly. If you own an Xbox, it's definetly worth owning. As to the issue of something burning into your screen, I play Halo for sometimes upto 8 hours continously, and have never had any problems with stuff burning into the screen. I'm assuming it's something RCA has worked on, because I have a friend who has had the shield and health bars bur into his screen.
The Model 50001 PS2 supports progressive scan output on DVD movies only and DVD+/-R media.
It's still less flexible than those 60$ CDN DVD players you can buy at Future Shop that do progressive scan and MP3/Kodak picture CD/JPG/WMV cd playback.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Supporting HDTV on the Xbox is "free" in that the entire buffer renders at 480p, except for games that explicitly don't support it (Kung Fu Chaos) due to the way they use the buffer. It's just like the Dreamcast a few years ago -- not every game says it supports 480p, but in a collection of 50 games, you'll only find 1 or 2 games which actually won't work on a 480p setup.
While not as many games support 720p or 16:9, they are out there. Panzer Dragoon, Quantum Redshift, and other games I have at 16:9 are beautiful. There's no slowdown, but I have so much more to see. It's well worth getting it, since 16:9 TVs aren't that much more, and it also allows you to watch DVDs in a native aspect ratio.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I've got a Sharp 27F631. Its one of the few 4:3 TV models that will shrink a widescreen signal down to the correct aspect ratio, which is required for widescreen games (games aren't anamorphic). It was this feature that I bought the TV for, as I wanted to play games in widescreen without having to buy a widescreen television.
A significant number of games actually do have a widescreen option, however the only games that I have found that really are enhanced through widescreen are racing games. The extra peripheral gives you an edge on sharp turns and opponents (I love playing F-Zero on widescreen).
Movies are made in widescreen because they are meant for a 16:9 movie screen, and therefore directors will actually use the extended width with purpose. But as a game developer, your widescreen audience is extremely limited, so gameplay will not be implemented to take advantage of the added width. In some games the widescreen mode makes for some odd visual anomalies (In GTA:Vice City, the moon is flattened).
One game that is an exception is Beyond Good and Evil, which is apparently entirely in widescreen (hopefully they will actually support widescreen tv's as well).
I have a 32 inches 16:9 Panasonic Tau. I bought it primarly for movie watching, but I do most of my console gaming on it too. Most Gamecube and XBOX games support progressive scan in some degree, and it does make a pretty significant difference in image quality over playing with progressive mode off. I don't think that the cost of a really good TV is really worth it if all you're going to do with the TV is gaming though.
On the other hand, my gaming experience got much better when I bought a high quality 7.1 receiver and a serious set of speakers. A good amount of games come also with either Dolby Pro logic II or Dolby Digital support these days. There is a hell of a difference between the weak sound a typical TV or $200 stereo output and what a quality sound system can do. IMO Noticing exacly where an enemy is pouncing at you from makes a game feel way more immersive than a simple resolution change.
I have had an HDTV widescreen for a couple of years now and I will never go back to 4:3. The prices for big screen HDTV's have come way down in just a few years. The latest DLP rear projection I think are the best bet because of price and I have read that they do not burn in. They also have a really slim profile, so it is as close to thin plasma as you can get. I have a rear projection Toshiba 40H80, its not the new DLP technology, but I dont have any burn in yet. Dont get a plasma, I have seen countless times the burn in image. Some games do support widescreen and thats great. For the games that dont, depending on your TV, you can still stretch it out to to widescreen so there are no black bar's on either side. It makes the characters look slightly fatter and at first glance it looks odd, but after you are playing for awhile you dont notice it anymore. The advantages of widescreen HDTV far out weight standard 4:3 DVD's are so much better with an widescreen HDTV hands down. Also alot of cable companies now offer the Digital cable box that has HDTV signal out. The price difference is only a few bucks more. There are only a few channels so far, but wow it is sooo much sharper and clearer. You end up watching these channels more often. HBO HDTV rocks!
If you're at all interested in PC Gaming on your HDTV, definitely check out AVS forum. ATI sells a ~$35 adapter for their radeon cards that will give you component output. A little bit of tweaking with powerstrip can apparently also give you some "nonstandard" resolutions on your set, with a number of posters showing pics of their setups running resolutions like 1024x768 or 1280x1024, which play much more nicely with games than things like 1920x1080.
I *just* got my adapter the other day, and I haven't had a chance yet to see if I can get anything beyond the generic HDTV resolutions.
I have a toshiba tube 34 inch HD and an xbox. All the games except the Thing support widescreen, while only a handfull support 480p or higher. tony hawk 4 supports 720p I believe. Its great. There is more screen. Halo looks awesome. I have no framerate problems related to the resolution. There are a couple games that looked stretched out. But for the most part its a definate win. I enjoy watching dvd's in widescreen as well as high def broadcast content(football games etc.) so it was a slam dunk for me. I've had my tv for 4 years and its great.
I have a 16:9 HDTV and an xbox with the HD pack and I have to say that Halo looks awesome on the TV. The best part is when you play four players the split screen works really well. Other games work as well, but to varing degrees. One thing to be aware of is that the DVD player in the xbox doesn't play DVDs in DHTV so you will need a seperate DVD player for watching movies. I also have a PS2 and gamecube. The PS2 doesn't use HDTV so it hasn't changed much, it does provide support for widescreen which is nice, but I wouldn't recomend buying HDTV just for the PS2. The gamecube works well with HDTV I only have one game, metroid prime, but it shows up really well on the new TV.
The only thing about the gamecube is that the games are all full screen not widescreen, i would say for gamecube its not worth it unless you just want the superior picture that the component cables offer, but for Xbox, there are a lot of games out there that are pretty nice looking. Only dragons lair supports 1080i but it looks great and you can tell a major difference between 480 and 1080. The controls aren't the best but its worth picking up cheap if you have the HDTV set up
We have a highend 70" plasma TV at work that is hooked up to an xbox (yea, i know). The TV auto-adjusts the picture to fit it into the widescreen aspect ratio. It's a little strange for the first couple of minutes, but after that, you start to forget, and it looks fine. The people just look a little bulkier. I've played a wide variaty of games on it, and I have to say, it kicks ass. The best part about that aspect is splitscreen, or four screen multi-player games which the size really make s wonderfull.
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As far as appearance of the games, well, it varies greatly by game. Some games which look fantastic on an S-Video connection reveal some severe jagginess on a progressive scan 480p component connection. It would certainly be nice if more games supported widescreen, but as noted above, it can negatively impact the frame rate, so developers have to consider this.
In any case, most DLP sets and rear-projection LCD sets are good bets for game playing. They don't suffer from burn-in, which is a key concern for gaming. The Samsung DLP sets have some quirks about not being able to take 480i, 480p and 720p all on the same input, though, which causes some issues with games which switch or won't do progressive scan. Some so-called "HDTV" sets don't support 720p; definitely avoid any which have this issue.
If you do get a HDTV, spring for the component video output for your gamecube. I didn't really notice the difference on the PS2 from the composite, but zelda looks spectacular.
Also, make sure you get a model that has decent stretch modes to convert to widescreen - I have a model that just stretches the last 10% of the edges so it doesn't make people look fat, and I watch absolutely everything in full screen (no letterboxing!). This is especially important because of the lack of widescreen pictures out there...
I own a 4:3 36" Sony XBR TV, capable of 480p and 1080i (with letterboxing). If a game offers 16:9 anamorphic support, I usually don't use it, because I like to be able to see the details that I'd have to strain to see if the picture were made smaller.
But when I played Eternal Darkness on the GC, playing in 16:9 mode was a no-brainer. The game is so cinematic and immersive that I felt like I was watching a movie, and the widescreen was the icing on the cake. Other games with a cinematic feel, I imagine, would also benefit from being played in 16:9, even if you have a 4:3 set--assuming your TV can squish the anamorphic display down to look right, that is, cause otherwise you're losing a lot of pixels (if it's not anamorphic) or the game will look all stretched out.
Incidentally, anyone who has a GameCube and hasn't played Eternal Darkness, should. (though it is rated M, so only play it if you can handle it)
feh.
spend 2k on a setup that'll be worth $400 in 2 years? that doesn't even compare to an investment that covers gaming, tv (gov't required broadcasting switchover will happen) and movie viewing (assuming you pick up a proscan dvd player, which last i checked, is on average $0 more than a non-proscan player)
the HDTV system would be a better investment. unless of course you don't like tv, movies, or console games.
and if you think console games don't have enough HD supporting titles - how many PC games do you think do? let alone 5.1 audio support.
if you want HD gaming, get an HDTV, a proscan dvd player, a 5.1 receiver, and an xbox. proscan at the least is nearly universally supported on xbox titles, and 95% of console games are out for ps2 and xbox, so the library is nearly identicle. but the HD supporting titles for the xbox are breathtaking in the higher resolutions. and the 5.1 sound is fantastic as well.
of course, all this assumes you are hellbent on HD gaming. but that's a matter of budget. if you can afford it, it's great - but in the end, the games are the same in HD and not. so if you can't afford it, you aren't missing much.
i would unequivocally recommend any console gamer get a 5.1 audio setup though. that is something that is real and measureable in the gaming experience. surround sound adds a layer of depth to games. HD just polishes up the visuals.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
The only game so far that I've actually enjoyed playing in 16:9 is Beatmania IIDX, a japanese import. The arcade original is formatted in such a way that when you play it on a normal screen, it has to crop out one player or the other for the notes you're pushing to be a reasonable size for viewing - whereas on the 16:9, you can see everything perfectly and it's just wonderful.
--Moo.
I don't know about gaming on an HDTV, but I have a widescreen on my laptop (1680 x 1050 WSXGA) and it hasn't been of much advantage to gaming. Most games let you pick from common 4:3 screen ratios like 1024 x 768, which then get stretched out a bit to fill the wider screen. The aspect ratios being off is annoying but not nearly as noticable as I would have expected.
I hope that between the increasing popularity of non-4:3 screens and fact that gaming graphics rendered from 3D models these days instead of just some predrawn sprite bitmap, better support for nonstandard screen resolutions becomes more common in the near future. We're there for desktops, but games still make a few too many assumptions about resolution and aspect ratio for widescreen to be the way to go.
No written description would do Prince of Persia justice, it must be played, and it must be played on HD, with DSS. If you have only been playing PS2 versions you have no idea what you're missing, not only in terms of visuals but sound as well. Game Platform 480p 720p 1080i 16:9 Online Dragon Lair 3d Xbox 480p 720p 1080i 16:9 Enter The Matrix Xbox 480p 720p 1080i 16:9 Syberia Xbox 480p 720p 1080i 16:9 World Series Baseball 2K3 Xbox 480p 720p 16:9 Soul Calibur II Xbox 480p 720p Freedom Fighters Xbox 480p 720p 16:9 NBA 2K3 Xbox 480p 720p 16:9 Online Street Hoops Xbox 480p 720p 16:9 Tony Hawk Pro Skater 4 Xbox 480p 720p 16:9 Ghost Recon Xbox 480p Online Mech Assault Xbox 480p Online Moto GP Xbox 480p 16:9 Online NCAA Basketball 2K3 Xbox 480p Online NFL 2K3 Xbox 480p 16:9 Online NFL Fever 2003 Xbox 480p 16:9 Online NHL 2K3 Xbox 480p 16:9 Online Tiger Woods PGA tour 2003 Xbox 480p Online ToeJam & Earl 3: Mission to Earth Xbox 480p 16:9 Online Unreal Championship Xbox 480p 16:9 Online Whacked Xbox 480p Online 4x4 Evo 2 Xbox 480p Aggressive Inline Xbox 480p 16:9 All Star Baseball 2003 Xbox 480p Amped: Freestyle Snowboarding Xbox 480p 16:9 Azurik: Rise of Perathia Xbox 480p 16:9 Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance Xbox 480p Blinx: The Time Sweeper Xbox 480p Blood Omen 2 Xbox 480p Blood Rayne Xbox 480p Bloodwake Xbox 480p BMX XXX Xbox 480p 16:9 Buffy The Vampire Slayer Xbox 480p Chase: Hollywood Stunt Driver Xbox 480p Conflict: Desert Storm Xbox 480p 16:9 Conkadoodle Ikwanki Warriors Xbox 480p Crazy Taxi 3 Xbox 480p 16:9 Crimson Sea Xbox 480p Dark Angel Xbox 480p Dead or Alive 3 Xbox 480p 16:9 Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball Xbox 480p 16:9 Deathrow Xbox 480p 16:9 Dynasty Warriors 3 Xbox 480p Enclave Xbox 480p 16:9 Fatal Frame Xbox 480p Fireblade Xbox 480p Gauntlet Dark Legacy Xbox 480p Genma Onimusha Xbox 480p Gunmetal Xbox 480p Halo Xbox 480p Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets Xbox 480p Jet Set Radio Future Xbox 480p Kelly Slater Pro Surfer Xbox 480p Largo Winch Xbox 480p LOTR: Fellowship of the Ring Xbox 480p Mad Dash Xbox 480p Marvel vs Capcom 2 Xbox 480p Medal Of Honor : Frontline Xbox 480p Metal Dungeon Xbox 480p Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance Xbox 480p Minority Report Xbox 480p 16:9 Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance Xbox 480p Nascar Thunder 2003 Xbox 480p 16:9 NBA Live 2003 Xbox 480p NCAA Football 2003 Xbox 480p 16:9 O.To.Ji Xbox 480p Outlaw Golf Xbox 480p Panzer Dragoon Orta Xbox 480p 16:9 Phantom Crash Xbox 480p Pirates: The Legend of Black Kat Xbox 480p Prisoner of War Xbox 480p Pulse Racer Xbox 480p Quantum Redshift Xbox 480p 16:9 Rallisport Challenge Xbox 480p 16:9 RedCard (20-03) soccer Xbox 480p Reign of Fire Xbox 480p Rocky Xbox 480p 16:9 SeaBlade Xbox 480p Sega GT 2002 Xbox 480p 16:9 Sega Soccer Slam Xbox 480p Serious Sam Xbox 480p Shadow of Memories Xbox 480p Shenmue II Xbox 480p Splinter Cell Xbox 480p Star Wars Jedi Knight II Jedi Outcast Xbox 480p Steel Battalion Xbox 480p Superman: The Man of Steel Xbox 480p 16:9 Test Drive Xbox 480p 16:9 Totaled Xbox 480p Transworld Snowboarding Xbox 480p 16:9 Transworld Surf Xbox 480p Turok: Evolution Xbox 480p Ty, the Tasmanian Tiger Xbox 480p 16:9 WhiteOut Xbox 480p WWF RAW Xbox 480p Xmen Next Dimension Xbox 480p AirForce Delta Storm Xbox 480p Arctic Thunder Xbox 480p Batman Xbox 480p Blade II Xbox 480p Bruce Lee: Quest of the Dragon Xbox 480p Burnout Xbox 480p 16:9 Capcom vs SNK EO - JP X
Hi! I'm currently using an ATI Radeon 9500 Pro and the xtra ATI Radeon HDTV widget (30$). This allows me to run windows in 4:3 or 16:9 wide screen mode by selecting resolutions like 720x480 and 856x480 and there are some for 1080i too. Plus handy keyboard shortcuts to switch modes. For gaming I have found 1080i works fine but for everything else I keep it to 480p becuase of the refresh rate -- with interlaced as in 1080i of course you get lots of flicker cos the signal is 60Hz interlaced meaning 30Hz to draw the whole screen. For 480p the picture is rock solid at 60Hz (somehow it looks better on my TV than a large monitor at this rate, but perhaps that is because I am further away). I have issues with clipping and I read that this is very common with HDTVs. I'm waiting for a new driver from ATI to address this in HD mode, because currently when in windows I can only see part of the start bar. Many games do not support the wacky resolutions like 720x480 and 856x480 (like Tony Hawk 4) but many do (GTA3). I think some of the newer titles actually query windows and can basically support any resolution supported by your setup, while others have predefined choices (giving your a 4:3 screen which you can stretch with your TV) Either way clipping is an issue. but its still cool to sit reclined on my couch and play GTA3 piped thru the receiver :)
I haven't had time to configure X-windows for 16:9 yet but I imagine that would probably be pretty easy given the extra control you get in XF86Config
Buy the TV anyway. Its great for movies and HD cable which I get about 4-6 channels incl ESPN.
I bought it at Myer Emco and the sales guy seeemed to really know his stuff. He assured me that the black bars from watching in 4:3 mode could not burn in, however I usually tell the TV to stretch images (more at the edges) anyhow. Another thing. My set is a Direct View (CRT) and using analog component inputs. Many of the newer models and esp plasma/lcd now take dsub15 (standard monitor cable) and even DVI inputs, and one would have to think there'd be little or no clipping with dsub15 and none with DVI... not sure about that tho...
Hope this helps
Dan
I have all three consoles. Some Gamecube games like Super Monkey Ball 2 support widescreen, but the only way you're really going to enjoy the HD benefits are with an Xbox and a rather limited set of games. That said, those that do support 720p or 1080i (I personally have NBA 2k3 and Soul Calibur II, both of which are 720p, and I know Tony Hawk 4 and others support it) look incredible. For the Xbox, for HD resolutions, you will indeed need the $20 HD cable pack, which comes with a set of component cables. Pretty trivial cost compared to everything else.
I have a Sony kp-65ws500, which is a 65" projection TV, supporting 1080i natively and 720p through downcoversion. It's around $2,200 these days and I absolutely love it. The day we got it we were using it for 13 straight hours and I've had no burn-in whatsoever (the "20 minutes" comment above simply isn't true), but I would of course try to be careful. Don't leave it paused for too long, or if there's a health bar/icon in the same place throughout the game, I'd switch the picture every few hours or so. Pretty common-sense stuff.
That said, I think you'll love the TV. It's senseless to buy a large TV these days that's not HD, and oh boy is it fun to have a large TV. It's a completely different experience from your typical 32" set. Personally, having games stretched doesn't really bother me; you won't really notice it after a few minutes of playing (and you can indeed choose letterboxing if you prefer). Plus, a lot of Xbox games are widescreen-compatible even if they're not HD. So for those games you won't get the resolution benefits, but you'll get correct widescreen.
And, as earlier comments mentioned, this is a situation that is only going to get better -- I'd be shocked if any of the next generation of consoles wasn't fully HD compatible. But the most important thing is that it's still more great today. You wouldn't want to buy an expensive TV just for future hopes and you wouldn't be. I love my Xbox on my TV and you know what, I love my Gamecube and PS2 games on it, too. Sure, none of them (with the exception of a few select Xbox games) are truly taking advantage of the HD resolution, but they still look great. And they're huge and more immersive, which makes such a difference.
My copy of Syberia has problems with 16:9 in resolutions higher than 480. The game is supposed to support 720 and 1080, but those on my TV have black bars on the side ala 4:3.
Rumor has it that Soul Caliber 2 has this problem as well.
My recommendation, buy the rig anyway, it sounds cool and exactly what game developers will be supporting more and more. I'm sure that if you're producing you own signal in the form of PC and games stuff you'll find many more interesting things to display than if you just rely on broadcast TV.
I have Mitsubishi HDTV thats a couple of years old and all the Nintendo systems since the NES hooked up to it.
I've only got a couple of games that support 16:9, StarFox is one of them. Just like a computer monitor it actually gives you a larger playing field.
Fine, so whats the fun of playing a 5:4 game on a 16:9 screen? Pleanty. I've found that most cartoons and video games look fine stretched out. Everything is a little wider than it should be, but with video games it looks like the way the artist intended. I just finished Skies of Arcadia legends on my big screen, I'm currently playing Animal Crossing, and I've put in quite a few hours of Mario SunShine. Occasionally you'll see something thats supposed to be a perfect circle that looks wrong, but thats about it. 98% of the time you don't notice the wrong ratio. That, and as time goes on more games are going to be released that support 16:9 anyways.
Now, on watching normal TV, maybe some more realistic looking games you'll probably want to put it back to 5:4.
The one mode you DONOT want to use for video games even if you use it for normal TV is the one that stretches the edges of the picture. It's disorientating to have spinning parallel lines bend at the end of the screen when you're controling the action.
If you're worried about the black lines, on my TV I can shift the 5:4 image to the left and leave it scrolling through channels on the right, three channels at a time, domino style update. Most of them do something like that.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Also, I have an Xbox and since it comes with component video, I was able to compare the picture quality between HD and non-HD games on an HD TV; the difference is tremendous.
Okay quit wading through the tons of "I'm not sure"s and "I believe"s; here's the low-down on consoles and HDTVs as it stands now.
Btw, I've had a 34" Sony WEGA widescreen HDTV for nearly a year now, and am an avid gamer on all 3 major consoles.
Xbox is by far the king, supporting 480i and 480p on nearly every game, 720p on a few (e.g., Soul Calibur 2) and 1080i on a few as well (e.g., Dragon's Lair 3D). It is also more apt to support 16:9 (widescreen) though it depends on the game. (Interestingly, SC2 for Xbox supports 720p, a natively 16:9 resolution, but ADDS two black bars on either side to make it 4:3 -- framerate issues I imagine)
Gamecube is next up with only 480i and 480p, but with the 480p much more frequently than PS2. I have also found GC games to more frequently have a widescreen option as well, but not nearly as ubiquitously as Xbox. At the [relative] bottom is PS2, which only supports 480p on a handful of games that I know of. 16:9 options on PS2 are nearly just as infrequent.
What does it all translate into? Preferential treatment for the Xbox version of multi-platform games, especially if you have a surround sound setup as well! Virtually any HDTV on the market has some option to accommodate 4:3 sources on a widescreen set (usually some combination of horizontal stretching and vertical cropping that minimizes distortion), and the frequency of HDTV-friendly games can only go up. Considering that DVDs and the majority of HDTV broadcasts are also widescreen, for futureproofing's sake you'd be handicapping yourself with a 4:3 HD set.
The reasons others have cited for lack of support currently are quite valid, maximizing performance, lack of widescreen userbase, and each developer makes their best judgment on how far to go. But as time goes on, the install-base of widescreen and HD TVs will increase, and public praise for games that cater to these people will have a greater and greater impact.
How odd this came up today. I JUST got my Samsung 61" DLP delivered today. It is amazing, judging by the few games I have played so far. I decided on the DLP because there's no burn in possability, huge size for low price, no ghosting (very important and very present on LCD projection TVs I have seen), and very thin. I went to every major electronics store (not Best Buy level. Only the snooty high class ones.), saw most sets side by side. You should do the same. Go to Tweeter and get then to change to something like soccer. Try to keep your eye on the ball. Sounds easy, eh? Only when the set has a decend refresh rate with little ghosting is it possible. Your eyes will begin to seccade like crazy and your brain will fil in information that is missing if you just watch passively. By watching a single object, you will notice how difficult active control over the screen will be with a game.
Anyway, I love it, and I'm sure you will too. Take the advice of ppl here and go check out avsforums. I did ALOT of research, and I am even more happy than I expected, now that I finally took the leap.
big screen tv talk is that all of my computer monitors are bigger than my tv
Get a DLP Projector. I've had one for about 6 months and I love it. Sure it cost me $2K, but you can (especially now) get them a lot cheaper. Games are awesome on an 8' diagonal screen =). No burn in, plus it is portable. I've taken my "big screen" over to my friend's house on occasion to play some games. I now have two other friends that invested into projectors. I've seen people pay more for HDTVs that give a smaller screen and look so much worse than my projector achieves. There are a few negatives on projectors (Lumens (if too low), bulb wears out, need a screen/wall to project on, pixel rise and fall (LCD)), but if you do your research you should be able to resolve these issues.
Equipment I'm using:
105" Diagnol Dalite High Power Screen
Sanyo PLV-70 Running at a native resolution of 1360x768 with 1:1 pixel mapping
2.8 Ghz Athlon with Geforce fx 5900
Ultra Gyration mouse + keyboard
Powerstrip software for custom video rez's
PC Games that run 16:9 at 1360x768 that I have played.
MotoGP 2
Vice City
Unreal Tournament
MS Flight Simulator - haven't tried but prolly can do it.
XBox games
Dragon's Lair
Matrix? I forget...
Tony Hawk Pro Skater 4 (Best looking Xbox game at 720p!)
That Volleyball game with the girls
Panzer Dragoon
I love this stuff!!!!
Also, there are several Asm Demos that run 16x9 at 1360x768. BEAUTIFUL!!!
-Clio
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Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com