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Dusty Disc May Mean Other Earths
DoraLives writes "According to the BBC, astronomers say they have evidence for Earth-like planets orbiting a nearby star. The star in question is Vega, which is nice and close (as stars go), quite young (also as stars go), and one of the brightest stars in the sky. Apparently, 'Vega has a disc of dust circling it, and at least one large planet which could sweep debris aside allowing smaller worlds like Earth to exist.' Should be interesting to keep an eye on it as the years roll by as the disk rotates and our optical powers keep growing."
If it does have an Earth-type planet, it'll probably be inhabited by a bunch of beings that look like my late father... that's barely worth the trip out there, or an hour and half.
I'm tired of bombing the universe
i hate the fact that we cannot see the planets right now and can only see its past. for all we know they are looking back at us on earth back in 5000bc going nope no life.
For The Best Jazz/Hip-hop fusion > COlD DUCK
Then the arms race starts.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
She's the Expert on going to Vega....
Vegans really ARE aliens from another solar system!
I'm off to eat some meat.
I claim first use of "Error No. 0B" - or "No. 0B error." It'll be the new ID 10T!
not all that earthlike
-- your Web browser is Ronald Reagan
Vega is where the message was relayed to earth from in Contact, perhaps rather than just relayed, it will actually be FROM Vega :-)
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
The likelihood of other meaningful life in the Universe just got better. And I for one welcome the possibility.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
But this certainly seems to be the most promising.
I'm still all about developing a means of getting us out there to explore these places.
Plus, it would certainly be nice to finally find a backup for our planet. You can't tell me there aren't at least a few people out there who have been rather alarmed at all of our recent unexpected solar activity.
Damon,
http://actionPlant.com
Will everyone else now belive me that Carl Sagan may know more than he is letting on?
120 chars of filth!
Here are Terrestrial Planet Finder links at:
This should be modded "funny", not "interesting". It's a joke -- get it? 5000 BC? Sigh...
Vega was the source of the extraterrestrial signal in Carl Sagan's "Cosmos."
Sounds like somebody just got the "Contact" DVD on sale.
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
I for one, welcome our new Vegan overlords...
Consultancy: If you're not part of the solution, there's money to be made in prolonging the problem
> Dusty Disc May Mean Other Earths
I thought this referred to my pr0n collection on CD.. It's been gathering dust. Never realized it may mean other Earths!
Must-not-watch TV!
at vega for a few days, then in 50 years or so, we will know if some one heard us.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
...welcome our new Vegan overlords.
... they'd be laughed off the stage.
Seriously, there's a chance that a big planet might have cleared enough space so as to not preclude the existence of a planet the same size as ours
CALL THE PRESIDENT! THE ALIENS ARE COMING!!
foo mane padme hum
A dusty disc may result in skipping or failed reads... but I don't think that even all the dust on all the discs in the universe could make an entire Earth...
allowing smaller worlds like Earth to exist
It's certainly a relief to learn that our planet actually can exist.
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
That will teach those Vegan terrorists.
by the time we can see anything appreciable in the system, we'll actually BE there. These changes take place REALLY slowly, and we'll all have evolved into "pure energy" beings by the time anything firmer than a large dust-bunny is in place.
Apparently everybody is thinking of earth-like planets and stuff. Sorry, but NO.
1 - Vega is 25 light-years away. That's around the corner and "today" in astronomical terms
2 - Carl Sagan picked Vega not because of planets, but because there were none, just a bunch of dust... There was a RELAY there, not aliens...
3 - The news actually said about process that could happen; a balance between a dusty ring and an outer planet...
how long until
I am SO depressed that all the /. crowd can come up with are lame Contact references.
YOU CALL YOURSELVES GEEKS! DROP AND GIVE ME TWENTY!
Vega, as ALL REAL GEEKS know, was the home of Mother Thing of Robert Heinlein's "Have Space Suit, Will Travel".
And if they are watching Earth circa 1978, we'd better be damn thankful they don't rotate us 90 degrees just on general principles!
www.eFax.com are spammers
There is no scientific theory that disproves it, so why not?
What makes you believe that you/we are the most intelligent and important civillisation in the universe? The universe is pretty big, and that's a very arrogant assumption to make.
This is what I read the title as, and was very confused when this story wasn't the least bit about how a dusty diskman could somehow be the cause of parallel dimensions. Let me tell, I was excited about this research, and now am quite disappointed.
--
RumorsDaily
Now all we need is Jodie Foster to point all of her radio telescopes toward it, and we'll be having corporate sponsored alien space travel devices in no time.
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
The article suggests that Vega is only 350 million years old. Moreover, at about 3 times the mass of the Sun, the lifespan of Vega will only be about 1 billion years. Given that it took about 3.5 billion years for life to get going, it seems unlikely that planets around Vega have (or ever could have) interesting lifeforms, even if an Earth-like planet is present.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
-Since the Vega system is very young, any terrestrial planets will probably not yet be in a "finished" state, but will still be busy accreting smaller planetesimals- for the Earth, this initial process might have taken 30 million years. Also, any such planets will not have finished differentiating into a core, a mantle and a crust.
If you send a probe there, it will not be able to find a cool surface on any of the larger planetesimals (growing proto-planets).
The Vega system is interesting because it provides a snapshot of the early phase of planet formation.
If you want to make a "Star Trek" style tour of a system, landing on the planets and checking for the presence of life, you need to find a more "mature" system, where the planetary crusts have had time to cool off, and where most of the orbiting debris has alredy been swept up by planets.
One other interesting point about the Vega system though: It is bound to have an amazing number of large, highly visible comets ! In mature systems, most comets have either been kicked out to the Oort cloud or crashed into a planet.
Yours Birger Johansson Sweden
If there's a habitable planet in Vega and I manage to get myself there, I'd be the most veganist vegan around.
Some of my ovo-lacto vegetarian friends could come with and thereby gain "vegan" status without giving up cheese pizzas.
There is no scientific theory that disproves it, so why not?
I am following standard statistical reasoning by assuming the null hypothesis: There is no intelligent life.
-- You provide statistical evidence to reject the null hypothesis.
What makes you believe that you/we are the most intelligent and important civillisation in the universe?
-- Where in my statement did I state that we are?
The universe is pretty big, and that's a very arrogant assumption to make.
-- The same applies to your presumptions.
Be prepared for the attack of the prime numbers.
The original generic sig.
I thought I'd be the first one with a Contact joke. Seems I'm one of the last.
be interesting to keep an eye on it as the years roll by as the disk rotates and our optical powers keep growing. Oh, okay. I'll just go grab my telescope, and a bottle of root beer. oh wait... better make that an ocean of root beer...this could take a few thousand years.
WOW, they found life on Vega in Contact. :)
I didn't use the preview button, so get over it!!!!
Mike
"Prove me wrong! I dare you!"
If we were created through evolution, then the same conditions would very easily exist elsewhere in the universe. If we were created by God, then God is an intelligent lifeform elsewhere in the universe, maybe even outside of it.
You are wrong.
"Derp de derp."
Furthermore whatever the chances of there being life, the chance that there being interesting, contactable life surely must be a more difficult calculation that can only be answered by our descendents. Scientists prefer a valid hypothesis, teatable in our lifetime, compared to whatever interesting questions one can pose. Thus, on this grounds of science, the interesting scenario that you mention cannot be that interesting.
By Earthlike I believe they mean terrestrial; a rocky world, as opposed to a gas giant.
Other known terrestrial worlds include baked-out Mercury, greenhouse-wracked Venus, and dry, cold Mars. Most people would not consider these "Earthlike" in the Star Trek Class M sense of the word.
That said: Even given the existence of terrestrial planets, Vega isn't a great place to go looking for a habitable, life-bearing world. It's a bright, hot star, which also means that it is a short-lived star. In a few hundred million years, when its potential planets begin to cool to the point where water would condense, Vega would be getting ready to wander off the main sequence and get way unpleasant to be near.
Another strike against life developing on Vega worlds: a greater percentage of its energy output would be in "bluer" wavelengths, including UV. Once it got started, life might adapt to UV, but to get started in the first place it needs some stability. I can see a influx of UV ripping apart delicate chemical chains in Vega Prime's oceans, greatly reducing the chance that life would get a foothold.
All this said, this is hopeful news, because the existence of one planet-forming debris field means there are probably others . . . some around more genial F and G and K class stars.
Stefan
I seem to recall, for some reason, that there may have been some radio signals that were recieved from vega in the 70's. Maybe that was just the end of Neuromancer though...ack.
>There is NO scientific theory that supports intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.
By assuming it isn't true, you are being willfully ignorant. Whether you are proven right or wrong, your journey there is by no means admirable.
>Prove me wrong! I dare you!
You cannot possibly be proven right. Your battle is never ending, unless you lose.
Arrogant? How so? Where is the empirical evidence that we're not the most intelligent and important civilization(s) in the universe? Big != populated.
So far, we're it. Unless something else is actually found. But, oh, that hasn't happened. All that exists on the subjet is speculation and hypotheses.
That's hardly grounds to call someone else arrogant. Bring some facts to the table to support your assertion.
If we were created through evolution, then the same conditions would very easily exist elsewhere in the universe.
-- Do you have any evidence to support your allegation?
If we were created by God, then God is
an intelligent lifeform elsewhere in the universe, maybe even outside of it.
---Only "If"
Again, Thanks for trying.
You are wrong.
[ Reply to This ]
Perhaps they'd like to come to my house for some burgers and dogs...
Earth is a proper noun, no amount of dust is going to result in other earth's. Maybe earth-like or m-class or whatever you want to call them, but other earth's doesn't make sense in the same way other solar systems doesn't make sense.
Simply mentioning porn and spelling it wrong on purpose is not humorous at all. I'm sure you have plenty of porn though, good for you.
Come up with something funny to say along with your porn that has almost nothing to do with the subject at hand next time.
Personally, I don't keep porn around. Just download some more from newsgroups or something.. why look at the same stuff over and over again? It's not like there's any real content to porn, just pretty pictures. Move on to new stuff... Keep things with content, like books and movies.
If I remember correctly, there's been at least a couple of articles discussing Earth-like planets already. So who's keeping an archive on these? And should they really generate anything besides human interest news? Much of the planets in our solar system still has not been explored thoroughly.
Pelé!
... more information regarding the Vegan Orbital Fort discovered in the dusty disk, including a panel discussion on whether it is heading our way, and what we're going to do if it is.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
"-- Do you have any evidence to support your allegation?"
Life here on Earth has evolved in virtually every nook and cranny of this planet, even in places where we thought life could not be sustained. Even the coldest darkest places of the planet (like the sea floor) are teaming with life. Life isn't so delicate that it'll only occur under a very precise roll of the dice.
"---Only "If""
You were either created by the big bang or by God. If there's a 3rd option, I'd like to hear it.
"Derp de derp."
First, there was plenty of life in 5000 BC. In fact, there was plenty of life in 1000000000 BC.
Second, Vega is only 25 lightyears away, meaning that the horrid bug-eyed Vegans are peering through their observoscopes and lusting after Farrah Fawcett.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a skull.
You wrote:
>>By assuming it isn't true, you are being willfully ignorant.
-- Would you please elaborate on your assertion that I am being "willfully ignorant". You are being willfully optimistic AND just simply wishing.
>>Whether you are proven right or wrong, your journey there is by no means admirable.
-- You are entitled to an opinion. However, your personalistic labelling of my journey should not detract from my challenge. I could say the same thing about your "journey" or whatever floats your boat or UFO.
Thanks for playing.
Should be interesting to keep an eye on it as the years roll by
Yes, because the 1st billion years (or so, give or take a couple hundred million) of Earth's existance were oh so exciting. And don't even get me started about the 2nd billion! Wow!
And the third billion... oh, my, god!
As the years roll by? What is that supposed to mean? That maybe, we might be lucky enough to see a planet form over the next 100 million generations or so? Wooppee!
I'll be excited when someone turns that slideshow into an animated GIF, ok?
Casual Games/Downloads
Addendum: I misunderstood the age, the system is 350 million years, not 30.
However, at that age, giant impacts will still hit any planets with "dinosaur-killer" asteroids at a rate hundreds of times more often than our Earth. Some of those rocks will even be big enough to vaporize the oceans, after it will take thousands of years for a planet to recover from the thermal shock.
Also, planets need time to create a differentiated crust, and if water is present in large amounts on a planet (on a scale compareable with Earth) tectonic processes need hundreds of milions of years to start differentiating "continental" crust that rises above the ocean. There will be plenty of volcanic islands in such an Ur-ocean, but initially there will be no large land masses at all. Everything will be pelted by giant impacts over and over again, some of them big enough to cause tsunami that completely drench smaller islands, a few big enough to boil the seas and the biosphere.
Nevertheless, there could well be life at the bottom of the oceans, protected from the violence of impacts by living in rock fissures very deep under the ocean floor.
I was being silly stupid.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
You wrote:
>>Life here on Earth has evolved in virtually every nook and cranny of this planet, even in places where we thought life could not be sustained.
-- The above observation does nothing to sustain a view about evolution on worlds other than Earth.
Your turn.
If there is life on a planet revolving around Vega, could that life consist of slashdot trolls? Just imagine the aliense.cx links!
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
First time as a troll? I can tell.
Okay I can prove that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.
1. Pick up a phone.
2. Call 411 or what ever number you have for information.
3. When a person answers look around. Are they in they in the room with you? If not they are elsewhere in the universe.
You may have meant that there is no proof of life on planets obiting other starts. You are right but if you do not look you will never know for sure.
As too your statment "There is NO scientific theory that supports intelligent life elsewhere in the universe." Yes there are many theories that support the idea non have been proven but again if you do not look you will never know. It is possible that there are millions of worlds with intelligent life that have yet to develop any form of detectable tech. It is only in the last 100 years that we have developed radio.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
one person's offtopic is another's funny
I must be getting dyslectic, after having read about the Swedish Student Party solving the 16th Hilbert Problem, now I was reading
"Dusty Disc Man Means Other Earths".
And I'm thinking, "How can they tell all that from a DiscMan? Way to go Sony!"
Please stay on topic. The topic is Scientific Theory NOT Carl Sagan's "Pipe"dreams.
If the Vega system has a planet, is it left of center, off of the strip, in the outskirts, in the fringes, in the corner, out of the grip?
All we need to do is build a big spinny machine, and send Jodie Foster to find out if they are really there.
... sheesh ;)
Suprised nobody thought of it before
He -he...
:-)
Cmon guys. You must remember the old bw sci-fi: Invasion
They came from...... Vega.
So this is kind of old news. Not exactly lightspeed
The study also mentioned that they processed the radiotelescope signal to extract the audio component. Click here to listen to the extracted audible spectrum.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
There's got to to be lots more where this came from. This particular sample was a lucky find, being a mere 25 light-years away. Could this lead to predicting similar (or better) environments beyond such easy eyeshot?
Offtopic? No, redundant. It's just the article blurb in binary.
Hm, given that Vega is 2.3935E14 km away and that Voyager I is travelling at 62500 km/h, a probe sent there will be travelling for about 437169 years. So maybe, by the time it gets there the planet will be ready :-)
This article jumps straight to the rosy suggestion that just because a planet is small and dense (ie: non-gaseous) that it is "Earthlike".
This is extremely poor journalism.
It would be like saying, "Human-like life found at the bottom of the sea!", when what you found in fact was a carbon-based multi-cellular organism.
Don't believe the hype.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
No thanks, but thanks for your reply. My challenge still stands.
>>our optical powers keep growing.
thats right, we're not going to worry about other planets till our 1337 0p7i(41 p0\/\/3rZ have progressed to the point where we shoot green and red laser beams out of our eyes.
or not.
--daniel
pushing is the answer.
pushing will protect you from the terrible secret of space.
no text, just sig
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
if they did, why wouldnt they just point the thing everywhere. spam the sky with signals to all the stars!
whats the harm or problem with doing that?
accuracy by volume!
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
...theres dirt in Uranus.
Don't they mean a 'Class M' planet?
Drill baby drill - on Mars
You are correct in that, until we make first contact, this will all be speculation.
The fact is, though, the universe could be teeming with life (intelligent, space-faring aliens) and we'd still likely not know it -- it's a damn big place.
However, it's just as innacurate, and speculative, to state that we are *it*, because we also definitely do *not* know that either -- and if we're taking about speculation, I actually think it's safer to bet on life already existing in some form elsewhere (again, just based on the sheer size of what we're talking about here).
Put it another way, the fact that we haven't yet met little green guys in no way proves that they aren't there. But, assuming that we have to be the best thing this universe has yet created (all based on "hey, the Martians haven't yet come to my house") is assuming a lot, and can be viewed as simple arrogance (since you have no other reason to think so -- certainly there's no proof for that claim either).
Recent simulations suggest that planets form in hundreds instead of millions of years.
with these new planets forming, one day (assuming we're still alive and havent killed each other off like morons) we'll be receiving radio signals asking if they're alone or not in the universe.. :P
Space settlement is the major activity of immediate practical importance.
I'm trying to be healthier, so I'm experimenting with a new diet: I'm eating nothing but vegans.
Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week.
Yeah, and what about Agent of Vega by James H. Schmitz?
This is an all-too-common example of sloppy BBC reporting. Evidence of Earth-like planets at Vega has not been found. What's been found is a dust disk that conforms to theories that very large planets ormed early in a system's development will migrate to larger orbits, dragging a lot of debris that would otherwise crash on small planets and inhibit life there. (Still a lot of rocks left over to crash and burn, though. Take a look at all those craters on the Moon. Earth would look the same, if not for erosion.)
Good news, though, but not as good as imaging a small planet and getting positive results for water, oxygen and methane.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
The sun has 5 billion years more to live, so that in theory would allow some time for a planet similar to earth to develop.
The problem is if humans survive for that long, by current trends in our history I suspect they won't. Probably another type of lifeform would evolve and attempt to reach Vega (i.e. cockroaches).
the horrid bug-eyed Vegans ...and that's why meat and dairy are important parts of a well balanced diet.
=Smidge=
If I remember right - vega is the planet they visited in Contact with Jody Foster - yes?
Should be interesting to keep an eye on it as the years roll by as the disk rotates and our optical powers keep growing.
When was the last time a BILLION years rolled by?
if God likes me even a little bit!
Why do I have this? I don't smoke.
IM SORRY. ALLRIGHT. JESUS CHRIST.
.. Im sad now.
I didnt fucking know. No need to viscously lambast, chastize and castigate me. I mean, now I FEEL HORRIBLE. Its like
And the fact that we haven't yet seen unicorns in no way proves that they aren't there. Of course, that's the difficulty of proving a negative.
The universe could be "teeming with life", or it could just be a vast lifeless mass (other than on earth, of course). But again, I'll point out, that vast, big, huge, whatever, does not mean that it is populated.
And I say that believing that we are *it* is not speculative, it actually has a firm foundation in experience. Granted, that experience could change, but, for now, we're all that anyone has ever seen that we know of. That is not speculation, that's based on experience. I don't see how making a statement based on experience is arrogant. Nieve, maybe. Subject to change, possibly. Arrogant? No. Based in known reality? Yes.
I was just moving some furniture around, and I found some dusty discs that could only reasonably have come from an Earth-like planet. So I would support this new "dusty disc implies Earth-like planet" idea. I wonder if they would like hi-res photos of the discs I located?
Liberty uber alles.
They never actually say what planet she visits, or if she even visits any planet at all. The signal appeared to originate from Vega, but as she rode in the pod, she appeared to have stopped and then restarted again a few times.
Maybe that's why Sony named their TV Vega and not Wega as some people insist.
Ooh, that one was called "Invasion of the Worm-Faces" when I read it. (Only in German.) Why publishers attempt to make you feel guilty about your bookshelf I don't claim to know..
Ahem. If you don't get it, read up on the constellation Lyra.
This is interesting and all, but maybe we shoule note we found this,
take a photo every hundred years and in a million we'll have this cool movie of disk accretion in action,
until then let's continue to search for the little green men, and occasionally announce we may have found them so the paranoid leap from windows
cause if this "dust-ball" doesn't form a planet soon, I'll lose interest ...
Dusty, eh? Guess those other Earth haven't yet invented this.
"Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
Those better be soy-dogs!
"Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect."- Steven Wright
Just as long as they're not the ants
with the attitute problem from "Spaceship Troopers"
--
Eeyore
A Vegan?
blog & fiction: jd87
Is Seti actively monitoring AM, FM, RF, VHF, and/or UHF signals from space? Can they do that? We could be receiving Vegan TV, by golly! If there are good reasons for not being able to receive them here, those reasons are probably the same on the other end. Ok, I just confused myself. Carry on. *cragen.
I think the real threat to our planet is ourselves, not our sun.
I think you ment biosphere, not planet
Thus, I hope we do not find a backup planet. I hope this is it.
If we foul our planet to the point it is unlivable, we deserve our fate.
First, IMHO this is utterly wrong factually: once a society colonizes
space, all it'll need is energy and materials. I suggest that actually
there may be few solar systems which are completely uninhabitable.
Second, from the pragmatic POV, this sounds to me like morality gone
completely insane: are you truly sugesting that you'd willfully risk
total genocide for humanity (and its surrounding biological system, BTW)
just because you think we "deserve it" ?
That's the largest-scale suicidal philosophy I have ever seen.
Not, of course, that I am in any position to affect change on this issue. Either a habitable planet is in range or not. Either we find it, or not.
Wrong. In fact, for a single individual, a researcher may be in one
of the best positions to affect humanity's future course.
Certainly we should try.
To this I agree
I just hope it is not too easy to leave Earth for the rich and powerful.
Why not ? if it'll easy for them in several decades, it'll probably
be easy for others later.
And anyway, don't worry. Space travel is going to be risky buisness
for a long time. If a rich and powerful person is willing to take on
personal risks to explore a new fronteer, he/she'll probably be
exactly the kind of person needed up there.
Working for necessity's mother.
You know, the one past the Oort cloud...
(Between listening to this on the plane ride home, reading Greg Bear's Blood Music, Terry Pratchett's The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents, and finishing Jonathan Lethem's Gun, with Occasional Music, it's been a pretty interesting vacation...)
... insensitive clod! I am a Vegan Vegan! comment?
Well, there you go.
But that's not possible. According to Christians, the earth is only 6000 years old.
yeah, but indian only needs to get payed 2 bucks a day while sitting on his dumb ass in india.
Vega, as ALL REAL GEEKS know, was
The solar system of origin of UFO Robot Grendizer, also known as Goldorak.
He was then modified after being captured by an alien civilisation and used by its prince to escape to earth, where it was further modified until it became the ultimate giant war robot used to fend off the Vegans attacking earth.
You can't take the sky from me...
The problem is that you're making a statement about the rest of the universe when we haven't seen 99.99999999% of it (understatement). The "firm foundation in experience" that you speak of is meaningless, as your experience is only of this tiny part of the universe that you live in. Without seeing the rest of it you have no basis for your belief.
The liver is evil and must be punished.
The sword cuts both ways. You say that "Without seeing the rest of it, you have no basis for your belief." Yet, without seeing the rest of the universe, you have no basis for your belief. Both are "beliefs", but only one is supported by experience.
The cold hard fact of the matter is that we are all that we know to exist. No amount of "you haven't seen it all" or "the universe is soooo huge" is going to change that, and any conclusion based outside of the information at hand is based on faith in an unknown not known reality.
For all of the talk of "science" on Slashdot, there's an amazing amount of blind faith here...what is this, the Church of the Potential Existance of Aliens?
Vega Las Vegas.
'nuff said.
Mal-2
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.