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Scientists Freeze Pulse Of Light

Smitty825 writes "After slowing down light to slow speeds, scientists at Harvard University have been able to stop light for a very brief period of time without destroying its energy. The article explains how it is different from this previous light-stopping science story - this will hopefully help the development of quantum computers and ways to communicate over long distances without being eavesdropped on."

343 comments

  1. Who wants to stop light? by trentblase · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now if they could only figure out how to stop SPAM

    1. Re:Who wants to stop light? by glenebob · · Score: 1, Funny

      Is there a such thing as light spam? Because if there is, you know, maybe it would easier to start with that...

    2. Re:Who wants to stop light? by umofomia · · Score: 3, Funny
      Is there a such thing as light spam? Because if there is, you know, maybe it would easier to start with that...
      Yep.
    3. Re:Who wants to stop light? by glenebob · · Score: 1, Funny

      A ray of hope coming to us in a brightly colored can!!!

    4. Re:Who wants to stop light? by noselasd · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Well, humans do a lot of light pollution, you can easily call that spamming..

    5. Re:Who wants to stop light? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you would like to stop spam
      then take a look on this list
      of spam tools.

    6. Re:Who wants to stop light? by Jugalator · · Score: 2, Funny

      It should now just be a matter of stopping the light travelling through the optic fiber connections. Sure, it stops all other data travelling through the fiber as well, but who said stopping spam never came without certain sacrifices? :-)

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    7. Re:Who wants to stop light? by DrEldarion · · Score: 3, Funny

      >> Is there a such thing as light spam?

      Yes, we call it daytime.

      The yellow face, it burns us...

    8. Re:Who wants to stop light? by croddy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      what? light pollution? if you don't like it, close your damn eyes! sheesh!

    9. Re:Who wants to stop light? by Geek+of+Tech · · Score: 1
      Maybe that's what SCO did......

      --
      Stop the Slashdot effect! Don't read the articles!
    10. Re:Who wants to stop light? by Mikkeles · · Score: 1

      You can read Light of Other Days by Bob Shaw for an answer :^)

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    11. Re:Who wants to stop light? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some people might just want to slow it down. Just think of the ramifications to the light-year unit of measure:

      The all-new 2004 4x4 Extreme Edition mumblemumble SUV can travel 15 lightyears on a single tank of gas!

      I can throw a football half a lightyear.

      You think yours is big, mine measures... well, you get the idea.

      digitalprose

  2. I can't wait for the future development... by Ratface · · Score: 5, Funny

    Imagine going out to a club and getting a frozen "light cube" in your drink which releases a stream of photons as it melts.

    Could bring a whole new dimesnion to the humble Tequila Sunrise huh?

    --

    A little planning goes a long way...
    1. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny


      thrust me, you dont want a block of sodium in your drink :)

    2. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by glenebob · · Score: 0, Funny

      Or you could drop one in your beer and then it would be li... um I'm stopping right here, sorry...

    3. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by trentblase · · Score: 4, Funny

      "thrust me"

      Is that going to be your pickup line at said bar?

    4. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by metlin · · Score: 1

      From the article -


      "I think it's moving us in the right direction," he said.


      What, the light? Or...

      Aww forget it!!!

    5. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by Basje · · Score: 1

      A tequila sunrise does not have ice in it...

      --
      the pun is mightier than the sword
    6. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by Tenebrious1 · · Score: 1

      "light cube" in your drink which releases a stream of photons as it melts.

      Ah, but if those photons come out in phase and all at the same time, you have a laser pulse! Frozen lazer pulses stored in ice "bullets", hey, we may yet see laser pistols in our lifetime!

      --
      -- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
    7. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no it will be: "Thrust me, I know what Im doing" :)

    8. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by Grizzlysmit · · Score: 1
      Ever wanted to adopt an alien?

      Thank you for offering to adopt me :-D.
      --
      in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that :-D
      Francis Smit
    9. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like this you mean?

    10. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by DrEldarion · · Score: 2, Funny

      Unless it's a margarita!

    11. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by utexaspunk · · Score: 1

      "thrust me"

      Is that going to be your pickup line at said bar?
      ...at a gay bar, or for a girl maybe...

    12. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by pipingguy · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...Imagine going out to a club and getting a frozen "light cube" in your drink

      Ice cube lights. Not quite the same thing, though.

    13. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well.. we can safely say that we'll be seeing light sabers in the next few years. Guess we're living in the true prequal of star wars :)

    14. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by toyotaboy · · Score: 1

      well.. won't be long before we see lightsabers. Guess we're living in the star wars prequal :)

    15. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds just like Tequila Supernova.

    16. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by Spock+the+Baptist · · Score: 1

      Why son, that's not a Light Saber.

      It's a frozen lightsicle!

      --
      "Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
    17. Re:I can't wait for the future development... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate you

  3. Man...Imagine the vaccuum by mingust · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Oh...wait. Voids allow light to travel faster. shame on me. What color is stopped light if it retains its energy?

    --
    ~mingust
    1. Re:Man...Imagine the vaccuum by vaccum+pony · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter, you can't see it. If it's stopped, it is not going to your eye.

    2. Re:Man...Imagine the vaccuum by trentblase · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's the color of one hand clapping. Seriously, this is the same type of question as "if a tree falls in the woods..."

    3. Re:Man...Imagine the vaccuum by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 3, Funny

      Octarine, of course

    4. Re:Man...Imagine the vaccuum by red_dragon · · Score: 1

      It's squant, but unfortunately you'll probably not be able to see it.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
    5. Re:Man...Imagine the vaccuum by virtcert · · Score: 1

      Black?

    6. Re:Man...Imagine the vaccuum by Platinum1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Energy = h*f, where f is the frequency of light and h is Planck's constant. The percieved color of slowed light is the same as when it is at speed c, if it has the same energy.

      Normally, we say that the color of light depends on the wavelength of the light, but technically it depends only on the frequency (not the same thing!). We know that:

      frequency = speed of light / wavelength

      But when light passes through any transperent material (with index of refraction n > 1), the speed of light changes, as well as the wavelength. Coincidentally, they also change by the same amount.

      speed of the light = c/n
      wavelength of light = L/n
      where c and L are the speed and wavelength of the light in a vacuum and n is the index of refraction

      Because they change by the same amount, the frequency remains unchanged. At least, this is how it works in normal transperent materials like water, air, and glass. This cutting edge stuff may be different, but the article lacks all the good technical bits for me to be able to tell.

    7. Re:Man...Imagine the vaccuum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      UM the speed of light isn't constant then? Don't we go back in time and weigh more than the universe if we walk past that slow light?

  4. Okay... by autopr0n · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One of the most annoying things about slashdot is their tendency to post completely vacuous science stories. Would it have been that hard to look up the actual paper before posting, or at least any information at all? All this story tells us is that it doesn't involve storing the photons in an atom as other researchers did. Oh, and that it's "very clever". How nice.

    Does the laziness of slashdot "editors" truly know no bounds? If you're not interested in doing the work, why not find people who are?

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    1. Re:Okay... by kevlar · · Score: 1

      .. but it is storing the photons in an atom. Unless this experiment is being done in a vaccuum, the photons are being absorbed and re-emitted continuously through the medium. What they are merely doing is slowing down how long the atoms retain the photon for. Its a neat trick, but nothing new that hasn't been done before.

      Also "slowing down light" is hardly an accurate description of whats happenning. In reality the velocity of the photons does not change, its merely that they are retained by the atoms longer.

    2. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In reality the velocity of the photons does not change, its merely that they are retained by the atoms longer.

      Umm, velocity is distance traveled in time. If you increase the time it takes to travel the same distance, you've lowered the velocity as far as an external observer is concerned.

      And it's hard to say what other meaning you could have to the "speed of light". "The speed of light between atoms?" Just how do you plan to measure the speed of light between atoms? How do you plan to tell whether there are any atoms present where you're measuring, in fact?

    3. Re:Okay... by kevlar · · Score: 2, Informative

      The speed of light is constant. What they are doing is having photons absorbed by atoms in the medium which are later emitted. The velocity at which the photons travel is constant.

      What they've really done is created a medium which slows the asorption and emittion of the photons so drastically that it is descernable by the naked eye. What they have NOT done is altered C. In other words, what they've done is the equivalent to shining a flash light through water and saying they've slowed the speed of light. This is drastically different from actually slowing the velocity of the photons through a vaccuum. In their case, their medium is constantly absorbing and re-emitting the photons. In essense, the photons that emerge from the other end are not the same photons that entered it. They are equivalent copies. Such is what happens with glass or any other transparent medium.

    4. Re:Okay... by Hal-9001 · · Score: 1

      You do these researchers a great injustice by calling their work equivalent to shining a flashlight through water. First off, they've actually changed the group velocity of a light pulse, not just the phase velocity as is changed in propagation through water. Second, the change in the velocity of light in water is a scattering process, not a process of absorption and re-radiation. In the absence of external energy input, absorption and re-radiation generates radically different photons. In this research, there is external energy input, which is the energy cost of storing and re-radiating photons that are identical in every way--wavelength, polarization, position, and propagation direction. If anything, this sort of research is a breakthrough in the quantum control of light which is comparable to the invention of the laser.

      --
      "It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
    5. Re:Okay... by Scott+Carnahan · · Score: 1

      The velocity at which the photons travel is constant.

      This is only true in a vacuum. If you have charged particles around, there are electrodynamic interactions which are not necessarily coming from absorption and reemission.

      What they have NOT done is altered C.

      No one said they did.

      In essense, the photons that emerge from the other end are not the same photons that entered it. They are equivalent copies.

      This is a meaningless statement. Photons do not have serial numbers - they are indistinguishable particles, and the only information they can carry is their helicity. If a photon passes through a piece of glass, and its polarization upon exiting is the same as when it entered, there is no reason to call it a different photon.

      --
      "Your notation sucks!" -- Serge Lang (1927-2005)
  5. Stopped light... by surstrmming · · Score: 5, Funny

    Makes me think of a physics joke.

    Q: What is the difference between stopped light and darkness?

    A: You know where darkness is.

    1. Re:Stopped light... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude you must be kidding.. I'm going to tell that joke to EVERYONE tomorrow at work, it's hilarious. I'm going to take credit for it though... I'll tell em "I was in the 10th floor bathroom spanking my monkey, just sitting there sliding my wanker between the bottom of the toilet seat and the cold porcelain when out shot this hilarious joke!"

    2. Re:Stopped light... by ripleymj · · Score: 5, Funny

      "If this sticker appears blue, you're driving too fast." --A red bumpersticker

  6. Very interesting... by twoslice · · Score: 4, Interesting
    development of quantum computers and ways to communicate over long distances without being eavesdropped on.

    I thought that light is a visual thing. How does one "eavesdrop" on light?

    --

    From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
    1. Re:Very interesting... by TitanBL · · Score: 1

      Imagine two naval vessels using Morris code and signal lamps to communicate - a 3rd party could "eavesdrop" on the conversation without disrupting the transmission of the message.

    2. Re:Very interesting... by trentblase · · Score: 1

      I think the grandparent was implying that the literal definition of evesdropping means to listen to a conversation "out of sight". If you are out of sight, you can't see the transmission. Admittedly, the word "listen" can be generalized to mean "receive data".

    3. Re:Very interesting... by VanillaCoke420 · · Score: 1

      Depending on what freuqency we're talking about, I suppose you could eavesdrop on electromagnetic radiation in a few different ways?

    4. Re:Very interesting... by GTRacer · · Score: 2, Funny
      Imagine two naval vessels using Morris code...

      Ship 1: meow meow meow meeeoww meeeoww meeeoww meow meow meow

      Ship 2: meeeoww meow meeeoww meeeoww meow meow meow meow meeeoww meow meow meow meeeoww...

      GTRacer
      - woof

      --
      Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
    5. Re:Very interesting... by arkanes · · Score: 1

      The literal definition actually refers to sitting on a roof to overhear conversation coming out a window ("eaves"-dropping). It does not refer to line of sight in any way.

    6. Re:Very interesting... by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 2, Funny

      Translated:

      Ship 1: "I want chicken, I want liver"
      Ship 2: "Meow Mix Meow Mix please deliver"

    7. Re:Very interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!

      Defending the castle by destroying access to it? That makes sense, 10,000 years of accumulated strategic doctrine. Go to the corner until you can play nice!

      In other words, you fucking asshole, you CANNOT HAVE OTHER PEOPLE'S STUFF WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION. PERIOD. Enforcing this dictum is not "not playing nice."

      Fuck off and die, you fucking thief.

    8. Re:Very interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Funny, but try again!

      C;mon, you can do it!

    9. Re:Very interesting... by GTRacer · · Score: 1
      Wow. I'm speechless. WOW. What more can I say? Wow...

      Look, I'm glad someone finally noticed my lil' sig, but I'm not advocating rampant copying (thievery, if you will). Nor do I subscribe to the "Information wants to be free" mentality.

      All I'm saying is the [RI|MP|??]AA's of the world are two steps behind the market's desires and are lashing out in desperate, litigious, harmful, and at best, useless ways to get the control back in their hands.

      I understand IP and keeping control of it. I'm a bit of a coder and I enjoy many of the products of our various content industries. Legally, I might add.

      All I mean to say is these soon-to-be-extinct dinosaurs need to update their business models and practices and stop trying to force the genie back into the bottle with C&D's.

      Fair Use is fair use, including format and timeshifting that which I have legally purchased. They seek to take that away, and in so doing limit how I enjoy their content. At some point, I'll stop enjoying it, or I'll turn to darker means to get my purchases useful gain.

      Broadcast Flag my ass!

      GTRacer
      - Have a Nice Day

      --
      Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
    10. Re:Very interesting... by f97tosc · · Score: 1

      I thought that light is a visual thing. How does one "eavesdrop" on light?

      "Eavesdrop" is just a metaphor for "measuring without the knowledge of the intended recipient".

      If you send radio waves (a form of light) for example, then anyone can measure those waves.

      However, there are quantum communication systems, where the information is destroyed when listened to. Then it is impossible to "eavesdrop", because the intended recipient will immediately notice.

      Tor

    11. Re:Very interesting... by GTRacer · · Score: 1
      (Before I begin my reply, let me thank you o-troll-without-a-name. I'm so jazzed up right now I can skip the rest of my caffeine IV!)

      When I read your first reply, I thought it might be some weird kind of astroturfing. Then I got your latest, and it seems you're really serious. Or a really good troll. Either way, I'm interested now. Give me some history - why are you so passionate? And why don't you understand we're on the same side?

      As for the typo cut, you obviously understood its meaning, which in communication is the goal. And how do you know what language's syntax I'm using? Perhaps you can offer up a correction? And why do you care if I code? I never claimed to be uber-l33t.

      You don't see the need for the content creators to adjust or recreate their business models and practices? Reasons/Examples/Evidence?

      And I'll accept your correction - the media market is in fact OK. But just because the dollars are there doesn't mean there's desire. People are slowly realizing there can be more to media than what the ??AA's feed them. And I don't mean digital convergence.

      Let me know what your shoes taste like - Yes, I know what Fair Use is. No, I can't quote the whole doctrine. But I know that basically, court decisions have supported certain consumer freedoms when it comes to time and format-shifting as well as excerpting. But that was when copies were less-than-perfect.

      Now that digital consumer tech can crank out bit-perfect copies again and again, Fair Use has become "piracy". Hence the need for a sea-change...

      Oh yeah, what's up with the rudeness and the swearing?

      GTRacer
      - Round Three?

      --
      Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
    12. Re:Very interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And why don't you understand we're on the same side?

      Because you're a fucking thief who wants to take what isn't rightfully his. Asshole.

      And how do you know what language's syntax I'm using?

      An asshole and a dimwit. Winning combination.

      You don't see the need for the content creators to adjust or recreate their business models and practices?

      No. All I see is people like you (fucking pirates and thieves) taking what isn't theirs to take. Fuck you.

      But just because the dollars are there doesn't mean there's desire.

      Actually, yeah, that's exactly what it means, you moron. That's how markets work. If people want something, they buy it. If people are buying, they want. That should be simple enough even for a shithead like you.

      But I know that basically, court decisions have supported certain consumer freedoms when it comes to time and format-shifting as well as excerpting.

      False. You're speaking about a subject on which you are insufficiently educated. So shut the fuck up, idiot.

      Now that digital consumer tech can crank out bit-perfect copies again and again, Fair Use has become "piracy".

      Again, you're fucking wrong. God, what an asshole you are.

      Oh yeah, what's up with the rudeness and the swearing?

      Fuck you, you miserable cunt-faced son of a whore. Eat shit and choke on it, you jizz-adled mouth-breather. Asshole.

    13. Re:Very interesting... by GTRacer · · Score: 1
      Is that you Jack Valenti?

      Tell Cary Sherman to quit sucking you off so that you can type coherently.

      And while we're at it,

      you miserable cunt-faced son of a whore. Eat shit and choke on it, you jizz-adled mouth-breather. Asshole

      I do *not* breathe through my mouth!

      GTRacer
      - Oh well.

      --
      Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
    14. Re:Very interesting... by AnotherFreakboy · · Score: 1

      In the exact same manner as one "eavesdrops" on emails.

      --
      Why not get the real ultimate power?
    15. Re:Very interesting... by trentblase · · Score: 1

      I suppose if you want to get technical, it refers to people not on the roof, but under the eaves. Try http://www.wordorigins.org/wordore.htm

  7. Apparently, there is energy loss by ultraw · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article mentions clearly:

    "We have succeeded in holding a light pulse still without taking all the energy away from it," said Mikhail D. Lukin, a Harvard physicist.

    This is somehow different from "...without destroying its energy." like it is stated in the posting. Maybe a subtle detail, but not quite the same.

    However, a briliant achievement. Kuddos.

    1. Re:Apparently, there is energy loss by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, "destroying its energy" would be a rather major accomplishment, if I remember my highschool lessons regarding conservation of energy...

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    2. Re:Apparently, there is energy loss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Kuddos

      New! From Kellog's!

    3. Re:Apparently, there is energy loss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, no one asked you, moron.
      By the way - physics is a tiny bit more involved than they teach you in high school.

    4. Re:Apparently, there is energy loss by LilJC · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Well, "destroying its energy" would be a rather major accomplishment, if I remember my highschool lessons regarding conservation of energy...

      Yes, but that's not how it would read. Destroying light is no major accomplishment at all, even if it means it is normally converted into heat. If light were not destroyed in this sense all the time, you would only need to flash on the lights in your room and shut the door, because the same light would continue to illuminate the room.

      It's really the same concept as destroying lighter fluid by burning it, except light has a curious tendancy to burn itself out.

      --

      The only thing more dangerous than a file named -rf is renaming it -rf\ /
    5. Re:Apparently, there is energy loss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, but his prinicple is sound, you pompous douchebag, go crawl back under a rock and leave the talking to humans.

    6. Re:Apparently, there is energy loss by jacobjyu · · Score: 1

      I think what he really means is losing all the energy to heat etc. Basically "losing" ALL the energy.

      But yes, the term destroying is a bit misleading..

    7. Re:Apparently, there is energy loss by AaronStJ · · Score: 1
      Well, "destroying its energy" would be a rather major accomplishment, if I remember my highschool lessons regarding conservation of energy...

      Ok, my grasp of this is a bit fuzzy, but... I believe you can destroy energy, or at least convert it into mass. That's what e=mc^2 was all about. Einstein showed that mass and energy are equivalent, and because mass and energy are equivalent, you can destroy energy to creat mass, or vice versa.
      --
      Stupid like a fox!
    8. Re:Apparently, there is energy loss by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      Well, my physics is not very advanced, but I don't think there's any actual destruction of mass in a nuclear reaction; it's just the very tight bonds in an atom release a lot of energy when broken.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    9. Re:Apparently, there is energy loss by AaronStJ · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking specifically about a neclear reaction here, I am talking about the equivalance of mass and energy in general. However, nuclear reations do play into it, and I believe that there is a measurable change in the mass of the reactant during a nuclear reaction.

      --
      Stupid like a fox!
    10. Re:Apparently, there is energy loss by Knetzar · · Score: 1

      In quantum mechanics mass is energy is mass. It brings up the idea that photons sometimes act like particles and sometimes act like waves. And as far as I remember when an nuclear reaction occurs a small amount of mass is lost, and the amount of energy created is e=mc^2.

    11. Re:Apparently, there is energy loss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because an object (whatever light is...wave or particle) loses its energy doesn't mean energy is lost. It's just been transferred or converted. So you could destroy its energy without destroying energy.

  8. Really light pocket light by Mr+Europe · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Soon we can pack the pocket light full of light in stead of heavy batteries !

    At least it sound _light_ not heavy.

    1. Re:Really light pocket light by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even better, if we can stop light, we can outrun it. If we can outrun it, we've got instant FTL! Woohoo!
      Holidays on Europa!

    2. Re:Really light pocket light by SpaceJunkie · · Score: 1

      Some time ago, I envisioned a sci-fi device which would use some kind of modified platinum orb and EM suspension field to store light as a power storage system(not source - just storage).
      The story was about overcoming certain aspects - like setting up an external potential much greater than the internal one, and the fear of the device being used as some kind of photon bomb by dropping the suspension field suddenly.

      And yes- the concept was that it powered its EM field off its own stored power.

      I used to write a lot of sci-fi shorts involving alternative power storage mechanisms. One of the simplest being a zero-g wheel- basically a huge elongated flywheel in a space station. It was rotated magnetically- like a motor, and then power was pulled off like a generator afterwards. What is interesting is that as long as the wheel is moving in RELATION to the station then it was useful.

      However- I must add that I never did complete a story - being only about 15/16 at the time - it was just a bit of a hobby...

      --
      OrionRobots.co.uk - Robots From sol
  9. Company slogan by mingust · · Score: 2

    "I think it's moving us in the right direction," he said. "Moving forward at the speed of light"? uh oh

    --
    ~mingust
    1. Re:Company slogan by wwest4 · · Score: 1

      who would have thought - physicists on the short bus!

  10. You can't, because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...if you eavesdrop on it, you capture it and the signal is lost to it's target. And once the recipient notices this, the transmission will end. Grabbing the data is to signal you're eavesdropping.

  11. Interesting note/errata by segment · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Harnessing light particles to store and process data could aid the still distant goal of so-called quantum computers, as well as methods for communicating information over long distances without risk of eavesdropping.

    But today the NSA's snooping capabilities are in jeopardy, undermined by advances in telecommunications technology. Much of the information the agency once gleaned from the air waves now travels in the form of light beams through fiber-optic cables crisscrossing continents and ocean floors. That shift has forced the NSA to seek new ways to gather intelligence -- including tapping undersea cables, a technologically daunting, physically dangerous and potentially illegal task.

    In the mid-1990s, the NSA installed one such tap, say former intelligence officials familiar with the covert project. Using a special spy submarine, they say, agency personnel descended hundreds of feet into one of the oceans and sliced into a fiber-optic cable. The mixed results of the experiment -- particularly the agency's inability to make sense of the vast flood of data unleashed by the tap -- show that America's pre-eminent spy service has huge challenges to overcome if it hopes to keep from going deaf in the digital age.

    Details of the NSA cable-tapping project are sketchy. Individuals who confirm the tap won't specify where or when it occurred. It isn't known whether the cable's operator detected the intrusion, though former NSA officials say they believe it went unnoticed. Nor is it known whether the NSA has attempted other taps since. Efforts to intercept all sorts of signals -- ranging from military radar to international phone calls -- are among the most highly classified U.S. government operations. Leaking information about interception methods is a federal crime punishable by imprisonment.
    [Source]

    If the NSA supposedly managed to tap into fiber (light) what makes this guy so sure his studies would minimize/cut/halt the risk of eavesdropping? "Splice the line, and you cut off the light, at least momentarily," says Wayne Siddall, an optical engineer at Corning Fiber in Corning, N.Y. Even a second's interruption could be noticed by a cable's operator. Cable companies typically build systems with duplicate lines that take diverging routes, in case one of them is damaged or severed. One retired NSA optical specialist insists that the NSA devised a way to splice a fiber without being detected. "Getting into fiber is delicate work, but by no means impossible," the former specialist says. Neither he nor the NSA will discuss the matter further.

    Spy agency taps into undersea cable

    NSA Tapping Underwater Fiber Optics

    And the list goes on and on. Bear in mind the NSA's date of achieving this, in comparison to the tech growth scale, I'd be willing to say that whatever Harvard is doing in being closely watched, if not already known.

    1. Re:Interesting note/errata by segment · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Good old fashioned history... Now only I could get my damn old UID back... Taco?

      Submarine cable interception

      Submarine cables now play a dominant role in international telecommunications, since - in contrast to the limited bandwidth available for space systems - optical media offer seemingly unlimited capacity. Save where cables terminate in countries where telecommunications operators provide Comint access (such as the UK and the US), submarine cables appear intrinsically secure because of the nature of the ocean environment. 49. In October 1971, this security was shown not to exist. A US submarine, Halibut, visited the Sea of Okhotsk off the eastern USSR and recorded communications passing on a military cable to the Khamchatka Peninsula Halibut was equipped with a deep diving chamber, fully in view on the submarine's stern. The chamber was described by the US Navy as a "deep submergence rescue vehicle". The truth was that the "rescue vehicle" was welded immovably to the submarine. Once submerged, deep-sea divers exited the submarine and wrapped tapping coils around the cable. Having proven the principle, USS Halibut returned in 1972 and laid a high capacity recording pod next to the cable. The technique involved no physical damage and was unlikely to have been readily detectable.

      The Okhotsk cable tapping operation continued for ten years, involving routine trips by three different specially equipped submarines to collect old pods and lay new ones; sometimes, more than one pod at a time. New targets were added in 1979. That summer, a newly converted submarine called USS Parche travelled from San Francisco under the North Pole to the Barents Sea, and laid a new cable tap near Murmansk. Its crew received a presidential citation for their achievement. The Okhotsk cable tap ended in 1982, after its location was compromised by a former NSA employee who sold information about the tap, codenamed IVY BELLS, to the Soviet Union. One of the IVY BELLS pods is now on display in the Moscow museum of the former KGB. The cable tap in the Barents Sea continued in operation, undetected, until tapping stopped in 1992.

      During 1985, cable-tapping operations were extended into the Mediterranean, to intercept cables linking Europe to West Africa. (30) After the cold war ended, the USS Parche was refitted with an extended section to accommodate larger cable tapping equipment and pods. Cable taps could be laid by remote control, using drones. USS Parche continues in operation to the present day, but the precise targets of its missions remain unknown. The Clinton administration evidently places high value on its achievements, Every year from 1994 to 1997, the submarine crew has been highly commended.(31) Likely targets may include the Middle East, Mediterranean, eastern Asia, and South America. The United States is the only naval power known to have deployed deep-sea technology for this purpose.

      Miniaturised inductive taps recorders have also been used to intercept underground cables.(32) Optical fibre cables, however, do not leak radio frequency signals and cannot be tapped using inductive loops. NSA and other Comint agencies have spent a great deal of money on research into tapping optical fibres, reportedly with little success. But long distance optical fibre cables are not invulnerable. The key means of access is by tampering with optoelectronic "repeaters" which boost signal levels over long distances. It follows that any submarine cable system using submerged optoelectronic repeaters cannot be considered secure from interception and communications intelligence activity.

    2. Re:Interesting note/errata by Alphanos · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Disclaimer: I have not read the article since I don't know enough physics yet to be able to understand its significance:).

      That said, I got the impression from the post that this could somehow be beneficial to quantum cryptography. If I understand correctly, the idea behind quantum cryptography is that as long as you have a direct optical line to whoever you're transmitting to, it is physically impossible for undetected eavesdropping to occur. This is because the nature of the system is such that a single observation of the signal will change it in such a way that it cannot be reconstructed. Perhaps advances in our understanding of light will allow this to function over the internet, where we don't have direct lines to everyone we want to transmit to.

      --
      Alphanos
    3. Re:Interesting note/errata by segment · · Score: 1
      Because an eavesdropper cannot accurately measure the bit's value using both of these competing standards, the only parties who can know the value of a string of such bits are the sender and receiver. And since an outsider measuring the system disturbs it, the sender and receiver also know whenever their line has been tapped.

      In fiber connections typically when a line is spliced connection is cut. According to historic sources, quotes, etc., the NSA managed to cut through fiber, get a tap in, without causing any flux or attenuation. First I would think some form of either mirroring or perhaps the use of a gem diamond, etc., but there would have to be some flux somewhere along the line, unless of course they hit up some of the repeaters or junctions in order to accomplish their goal. Think about a direct line of sight clearly... Even with Quantum crypto your line of sight is passing through channels, equipments, and if the NSA managed to break that light, sniff keys, AND THE CIPHERTEXT, etc., using a quantum computer themselves (the eavesdropper(s)), they'd be able to reconstruct a message (perhaps), maybe even using a distributed quantum network.

      Strangely I wish I had this link up for Los Alamos' Quantum crypto labs but it looks like it was taken down.

      So long as the parties on both ends use their key only once and know that they are the only owners of this key -- a certainty which quantum crypto provides -- then they are guaranteed security. Source for italics is an older Wired Article

    4. Re:Interesting note/errata by FrostedWheat · · Score: 1

      That shift has forced the NSA to seek new ways to gather intelligence -- including tapping undersea cables, a technologically daunting, physically dangerous and potentially illegal task.

      Hmmm ... didn't one of those undersea cables recently have a number of failures recently? Concidence?

    5. Re:Interesting note/errata by benjamindees · · Score: 5, Informative

      That may be how traditional optical communications works. Quantum crypto, otoh, relies on the light being put in a certain polarization state by the sender. It's designed so that a stream of single photons go from sender to receiver; there can be no equipment in-between. If an intermediary views this photon en-route, it disturbs the polarization seen by the receiver. Because of the way the sender and receiver can agree on which photons were correctly measured, any aberrations (intercepted photons) are discarded. The most you can hope for is a denial-of-service.

      Here's a better explanation than I can muster.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    6. Re:Interesting note/errata by eggplantpasta · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No. The lack of eavesdropping refers to the quantum properties of entangled photons used to encrypt communications in a theoretically unbreakable way. See here. There was also a slashdot story on this a few years ago.

      --
      "Don't forget the prunes." L. Francis Herreshoff
    7. Re:Interesting note/errata by kabocox · · Score: 1

      More likely it will be used to freeze those photons so that the NSA can read them then let them on their way.

    8. Re:Interesting note/errata by MadHungarian1917 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The "fact" that fiber optic cable is untappable is more a article of faith rather than objective reality. Providing you have physical access to a optical cable it is trivial to tap one. All that is required is that the cable be bent. The bend refracts light through the cladding and it can be detected with a suitable detector. The loss increases on the cable as a result of the bend (but communications are not disrupted so long as the loss is less than the loss budget for the link. Most carriers have test equipment based on this principle to allow them to perform non-invasive testing of their fiber plant. Hence the problem is more of an access issue. BTW this is why secure F/O cables run within a pressurized conduit. A pressure drop indicates someone is attempting to gain access OR a squirrel is chewing through it!. Yes I design F/O cable plant!

    9. Re:Interesting note/errata by opeboyal · · Score: 1

      i saw a special on TV about that. The difference is that it wasn't fiber optics they were tapping. They did it without harming the line, they place a big "magnet" on the outside of the line that collected the data passing by. This is the mission in a nut shell.

    10. Re:Interesting note/errata by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If we're talking about undersea optic fibres, I really don't see the point in attempting to splice the fibre. Despite being able to cover pretty huge distances, the signal still needs both amplifying and cleaning up every [don't know how many km].

      Some of the amplifiers are going to be Erbium Doped Fibre Amplifiers (EDFAs) or something similar (few years since I worked for Nortel), which can amplify the light directly, but some of them will have to turn the signal back into an electrical signal, pass it through some filters, and then retransmit it.

      If I was the NSA, I'd park my sub next to one of these amplifiers, and read the electromagnetic field created by the electronics. Of course, it's going to be a hell of a job deciphering the signals, but not impossible with very sensitive equipment and some serious computing power - both of which, the NSA has access to.

  12. Light RAM by Space+cowboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sounds like you could use it similar to the initial version of electronic memory (sort of a digital delay line), if it could be harnessed.

    A few hundred-thousandths of a second is an eternity(*) for a photon. That's actually pretty impressive :-)

    Simon.

    (*) Yes, for the pedants amongst us, I realise it's not actually an eternity. It's a figure of speech, for chrissake!

    --
    Physicists get Hadrons!
    1. Re:Light RAM by Walterk · · Score: 0

      Light RAM? Are you saying the current RAM we have is heavy? Currently 512 MB is only 50g. Light HDDs would be nice though. Light (heavy duty Li-Ion) batteries would be brilliant!

    2. Re:Light RAM by Finuvir · · Score: 1
      A few hundred-thousandths of a second is an eternity for a photon.

      Actually the entire lifetime of the universe, the length of time itself, is only an instant from the perspective of something traveling at the speed of light. Time dilation reduces it all to an infinitessimal period.

      --
      Why is anything anything?
    3. Re:Light RAM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      A few hundred-thousandths of a second is an eternity(*) for a photon. That's actually pretty impressive :-)
      Actually for the photon it would be a fraction of an infinitesimal span of time. Just because it's small doesn't mean it experiences time an an increased rate. If you recall relativity, the faster one moves, the faster events outside of you seem to occur (for example, fly away in a space ship really fast, and when you come back the earth will have aged much more rapidly). Thus the ticking of the imaginary hundred-thousandths hand on the clock will occur even more frequently as you travel at high speeds. With light you take this to the limit and find that all eternity passes the photon by in less than the blink of an eye.

      It also makes me wonder if the time dilation effects of relativity are what keep photons "alive." It is known that if you accelerate unstable particles, their half lives become extended (at least to our timeframe). Maybe photons should decay very rapidly, but time dilation at the speed of light stretches this out to eternity. This would be why atoms can absorb a photons energy; they bring it to a stop and then it instantly decays. Then again, seeing as they've slowed down light before (or did they simply increase the path length by having it bounce around a lot?), I'm probably talking out of my ass on this one.
    4. Re:Light RAM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if you're a photon that gets absorbed? :(

    5. Re:Light RAM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, photons are massless and pointlike/wavelike, and don't experience time. So it doesn't make any sense to talk about decay. Yes, slowing photons down is accomplished by increasing their path length, and not by actually applying a force that reduces their velocity in a newtonian sense. When you talk about an atom "bringing it to a stop", you must surely realize that the photon doesn't actually follow a speed curve from c to zero and then decay. Why? Photons and other such particles don't have a discrete measurable path. That's why we have quantum physics to describe these things, because we've found that newtonian mechanics predicts results that don't make any sense at the quantum level.

  13. Another article by Quirk · · Score: 4, Informative

    BBC News has an article which speaks a bit more to Quantum crytography.

    "Quantum cryptography might provide very secure forms of electronic encryption, because the process of eavesdropping on an electronic message would introduce errors in the message, garbling it."

    "This would allow you to exchange a key on a public channel, but whereas any classical system can be broken by an eavesdropper, in quantum cryptography you would always find out if someone was looking at your message," Professor Zubairy told BBC News Online."

    --
    "Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
    Cohen
  14. Other Days, Other Eyes by Pond823 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Could "Slow Glass" be coming? Bob Shaw wrote about glass that could slow down light so that it took years to pass through and the effects it had on society in his 1972 book Other Days, Other Eyes. Anyone interested in this stuff should hunt down a copy.

    1. Re:Other Days, Other Eyes by Otto · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Interesting story, I grant you, but if such a thing existed, you'd have to wonder at the temperature the glass would reach after absorbing light for a few years. It'd be possible to do something similar to it using other methods, but I doubt the possibility of doing it using anything similar to the methods described in the book.

      --
      - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
    2. Re:Other Days, Other Eyes by 505 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Bob Shaw is one of my favourite writers. I liked the Slow Glass stories. I don't think slow glass is coming any faster, because there are considerable problems to solve besides slowing light. Suppose we have a manageable slab of material that stores light for years. What about the optics?

      I suspect that looking at other days through a two-year slab of 'flat' slow glass would be like looking through a tunnel two light years long. Perhaps you could do something with fancy optics, maybe integral to the slab.

      Small irregularites currently quite acceptable on (say) astronomical mirrors would result in different parts of the images emerging at different times. Would the images be usable? Would slow glass transmit all frequencies of visible light at the same speed?

    3. Re:Other Days, Other Eyes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It'd be possible to do something similar to it using other methods"

      Webcam, tivo, TV screen...

    4. Re:Other Days, Other Eyes by DahGhostfacedFiddlah · · Score: 1

      The story mentions that little energy was lost by the time the energy left. If the photons remain photons (rather than being absorbed by the glass), they won't increase the temperature.

    5. Re:Other Days, Other Eyes by SpaceJunkie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Which leads to thoughts of using a similar idea as a power storage system. Exactly how much energy as light passes through a window in one day?

      Any physics buffs out there care to comment on that?

      --
      OrionRobots.co.uk - Robots From sol
    6. Re:Other Days, Other Eyes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once took physics class and I read a few posts on Slashdot, so I think I'm qualified.

      Word on the street is that the 1000W/m^2 reaches us "on a good day". Since windows are usually mounted vertically, mumble mumble mumble, then you'd get much less on average. Multiply that by the number of hours of sunlight you get in a day.

    7. Re:Other Days, Other Eyes by chooks · · Score: 1

      I belive that Orson Scott Card had a short story regarding something like this as well in a collection of his. Can't remember the name of the story (or the collection) off hand though.

      chooks

      --
      -- The Genesis project? What's that?
    8. Re:Other Days, Other Eyes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which leads to thoughts of using a similar idea as a power storage system.

      Think Energon Cubes.

    9. Re:Other Days, Other Eyes by carn1fex · · Score: 1

      I dunno.. if the efficiency per photon remains constant the temperature shouldnt increase. "in theory" you should be absorbing and emitting the same number of photons per second as a normal window would.

      --

      ---------

      No matter how thin you slice it, its still baloney.

    10. Re:Other Days, Other Eyes by Otto · · Score: 1

      I dunno.. if the efficiency per photon remains constant the temperature shouldnt increase. "in theory" you should be absorbing and emitting the same number of photons per second as a normal window would.

      Yes, but only once light had passed through the thing. I mean, let's say you create a pane of glass that takes a year for light to pass through. For the first year, it's going to be as black as black can be, because it hasn't had time for the light to pass through it. Temp will increase all for that year. It would reach maximum once it started emitting, I grant you.

      --
      - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  15. light fantastic ??? by stormer131 · · Score: 1

    Why do you think any communications technology will be untapable ?

    It doesn't matter what medium is used, there will always be a point of access for law enforcement or network testing / troubleshooting. Try and get something certified for use without it !

    Remember the transmission medium is only part of the story !

    1. Re:light fantastic ??? by CanadianCrackPot · · Score: 1

      Actually if they use the property of atoms and photons where if they are placed next to each other for long enough and then seperated they continue to act exactly the same. (I'd post a link if I could remember where)

      Should one photon be "destroyed" the other instantly destroys itself allowing near instantaneous data transfer. I'd like to know how the hell they'd tap into that without using their own photons on every data device made with this tech.

      --
      Good programmers drink beer to relieve job stress.
      Great programmers drink hard liquor and work best hungover.
    2. Re:light fantastic ??? by liquidsin · · Score: 1

      The point isn't to make it untapable. The point is that any observation will change the spin (polarization) of the photons. So while you can't keep someone from viewing, you can know when someone has. Or something like that...

      --
      do not read this line twice.
  16. Well you could have found it by loadquo · · Score: 5, Informative

    Like I did here.

  17. More links by prospero14 · · Score: 5, Informative

    More detailed articles about the research can be found here or here.

    Larkin's article itself is here.

    Any physics nerds want to explain it to us?

    1. Re:More links by Zog+The+Undeniable · · Score: 5, Informative

      The light beam is stored (in gas atoms) rather than stopped. It's a bit like sending an e-mail - you don't get the same electrons that were sent to you from the other person's computer, but the electrons that come down your telephone line/DSL/cable are identical in every respect.

      --
      When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
    2. Re:More links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      well, any one electron is in a sense identical to any other.

      but there's a stronger concept at work in this light thing too, indistinguishability. Sometimes, the 'same' photon doesn't mean anything. actually, it never means anything. photon is the observed quanta, and you can only ever make the observation once, same with electrons.

    3. Re:More links by azaris · · Score: 1

      Looks like they managed to create a standing electromagnetic wave inside matter for a fraction of a second. Seems like a practical proof-of-concept experiment rather than anything that would give birth to new earth-shattering theories.

  18. Serious! by glenebob · · Score: 2, Funny

    This may prove to be a ray of inspiration for dim wits everywhere, beamed from the heavens to shed a new light on these dark times! Don't take it lightly. How we use this enlightenment will be a reflection on us all.

    Altogether now: *grrooaaan*

    1. Re:Serious! by ideonode · · Score: 1

      You are a bright spark aren't you! I found your post to be most illuminating.

  19. If we stopped light, by beyonddeath · · Score: 1

    wouldnt this mean that we have already gone faster than the speed of said light. i mean i think my car goes faster than 0m/s right? what implications would this have?

    1. Re:If we stopped light, by epsilon720 · · Score: 2, Informative

      That just means that if you were, in fact, able to drive your car through their rubidium medium, it might produce somthing akin to cherenkov radiation, another example of massive particles traveling faster than c/n.

    2. Re:If we stopped light, by trentblase · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think you're not supposed to be able to go faster than light under the _same conditions_. If someone used forward and backward control beams to time-vary your Rabi-frequencies, I doubt you'd be going anywhere fast.

    3. Re:If we stopped light, by cpghost · · Score: 1

      What about blackholes? Light can't escape, not because it is slowed down or halted, but because the space is distorted. Did they create a small artificial blackhole to trap light? :-)

      --
      cpghost at Cordula's Web.
    4. Re:If we stopped light, by jabberjaw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics CherenkovRadiation
      what implications would this have?
      One actually can travel faster than the speed of light in a certain medium. I hear it is common in nuclear reactors and results in what is termed as a sonic boom of sorts when the light actually catches up to the other particles.

    5. Re:If we stopped light, by misterpies · · Score: 4, Informative

      no, that's false. the universal speed limitation is the speed of light in a vacuum. Because light passing through matter moves slower than it does through a vacuum, it's perfectly possible to move faster than the "local" speed of light. Physicists have studied this by firing high-speed particles into crystals. Basically the particle creates a shockwave, a sort of optical equivalent of a sonic boom. It's called Cherenkov radiation if you want to look it up.

      --
      The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
    6. Re:If we stopped light, by Finuvir · · Score: 1

      It's an interesting phenomenon, and quite beautiful, but nothing to be surprised by. No-one ever said (well loads said it but they were wrong) that nothing can go faster than light. Nothing can go faster than c, the speed of light in a vacuum.

      --
      Why is anything anything?
    7. Re:If we stopped light, by trentblase · · Score: 1

      Ok, I looked it up... According to http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/CherenkovR adiation.html, this is electromagnetic radiation in the UV region of the spectrum. That sounds a lot like light to me. We're probably getting into an esoteric discussion here, but I would argue that Cherenkov radiation sound like "light that travels faster than other light in the same medium". Not massive bodies.

  20. Interesting note/errata by segment · · Score: 1
    funny ass article quote...

    Dr. Lloyd added, "Who ever thought that you could make light stand still?"

    Possible responses:

    Mulletboy: Hell Bobby Jo 'an I do it all da time we juss turn on dat dag gon lite dare and it don move a noggin

    Psychologist: Well the light has to be willing to move itself you know

    Moses: God saith it so Let there be light

    Dalai Lama: The light suffers in this state. It learns compassion it is enlightened

    k let me actually get a life and some sleep

  21. Speaking of light and darkness... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Here's a quote from Terry Pratchett you might like:

    "Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it."

    1. Re:Speaking of light and darkness... by Finuvir · · Score: 1

      There's another quote of Pratchett's (I think, maybe Adams) along the lines that light travels so astoundingly fast that it takes most civilizations thousands of years to realise that it travels at all.

      --
      Why is anything anything?
    2. Re:Speaking of light and darkness... by red+floyd · · Score: 1

      It was Adams.

      --
      The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
    3. Re:Speaking of light and darkness... by Finuvir · · Score: 1

      Yes, I thought it read more like Adams. That man has some of the best quotes. Probably because he had the best ideas.

      --
      Why is anything anything?
    4. Re:Speaking of light and darkness... by Basje · · Score: 1

      One of the riddles in the dark from The Hobbit also has a reference to this: it comes first and follows after...

      --
      the pun is mightier than the sword
  22. Darn darn darn by pikkumyy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why were there no pictures of this stopped light? .. oh wait

  23. Duh! by raehl · · Score: 1

    It doesn't have any color - it's STOPPED.

    If it's STOPPED, it ain't ever going to get to your eye, see? Erm, I mean, not see?

    Maybe you you ran your eye into it or something....

    1. Re:Duh! by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      If you can messure it's frequency in a before and after state, then you can determine whether or not it's been red/blue shifted.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
  24. Reminds me of another physics joke... by raehl · · Score: 5, Funny

    Officer: "Do you know how fast you were going?"

    Heisenberg: "No, but I know exactly where I am!"

    1. Re:Reminds me of another physics joke... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah hahaha good one! That reminds me of the same exact joke posted just the other day!

    2. Re:Reminds me of another physics joke... by amplt1337 · · Score: 1

      Hey, that reminds me of this Slashdot story from last week.

      --
      Freedom isn't free; its price is the well-being of others.
  25. better than quantum crypto by segment · · Score: 1
    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/20/science/20CODE.h tml

    The New York Times, February 20, 2001
    The Key Vanishes: Scientist Outlines Unbreakable Code

    By GINA KOLATA

    A computer science professor at Harvard says he has found a way to send coded messages that cannot be deciphered, even by an all-powerful adversary with unlimited computing power. And, he says, he can prove it.

    If he is right, and he does have some supporters, his code may be the first that is both practical and provably secure. While there are commercially available coding systems that seem very hard to break, no one can prove that they cannot be cracked, mathematicians say.

    In essence, the researcher, Dr. Michael Rabin and his Ph.D. student Yan Zong Bing, have discovered a way to make a code based on a key that vanishes even as it is used. While they are not the first to have thought of such an idea, Dr. Rabin says that never before has anyone been able to make it both workable and to prove mathematically that the code cannot be broken.

    "This is the first provably unbreakable code that is really efficient," Dr. Rabin said. "We have proved that the adversary is helpless."

    Dr. Richard Lipton, a computer science professor at Princeton, who is visiting this year at the Georgia Institute of Technology, said, "It's like in the old `Mission Impossible,' where the message blows up and disappears."

    Someone who uses one of today's commercially available coding systems, Dr. Lipton explained, uses the same key -- mathematical formulas for encoding and decoding -- over and over. Eventually, they may be forced, perhaps by a court order, to give up the key. Or the key may be stolen. But with Dr. Rabin's system, the message stays secret forever because the code uses a stream of random numbers that are plugged into the key for encoding and decoding. The numbers are never stored in a computer's memory, so they essentially vanish as the message is being encrypted and decrypted.

    Rest of article mirrored at Cryptome

  26. Phillip Morris? by raehl · · Score: 2, Funny

    Messeges in Phillip Morris code are automatically subpoenaed by Congress anyway.

    God damn, subpoenaed is an ugly word.

  27. Now imagine... by raehl · · Score: 1

    Two ships using Morse code to communicate with a laser, and a 3rd party positioning their ship in between the two to eavesdrop on the laser, and then you'll have a better analogy. The receiving ship knows that someone is listening to the message because they're not getting it.

    Signal lamps are multi-directional, photons only go one way.

    1. Re:Now imagine... by Ignominious+Cow+Herd · · Score: 1

      ...just use a beam splitter (on a stick). Original beam goes on to 2nd ship and you get to hear the whole thing.

      --
      Lump lingered last in line for brains, and the ones she got were sorta rotten and insane.
  28. Speed of light inconsistencies by azmaveth · · Score: 1

    If the speed of light changes, what does this mean for using the speed of light as a measuring rod for interstellar distances? Sounds to me like we'd better rethink the size of our universe. Feel free to correct me (as if I need to say that on /.), but if the universe is truly expanding, doesn't that mean the interstellar gasses and debris have also been "thinning"? How can we be sure that this expansion hasn't affected the speed of light?

    1. Re:Speed of light inconsistencies by logpoacher · · Score: 1

      The actual speed that light achieves travelling through different materials varies according to the material. It goes much slower through glass or water - hence refractive effects.

      When people talk about the speed of light as a theoretical maximum speed, as in relativity, they're normally referring to its speed through a pure vacuum.

      Most astronomers agree that the density of interstellar material is way, way lower than would be needed to make any appreciable difference to the speed of light - water only slows it down by 30% and there are about 1e23 water molecules per cc in normal earth water. Even in a dense dust cloud in space, there might only be one atom per cc. (Quick note - that's a total guess, but I recall the estimate that outer space contains only a few atoms per cubic mile, so I'm throwing in a factor of a 1e10 to make up for it!)

      On the other hand, there have been a lot of discussions as to whether the speed of light may have changed over the life-time of the universe, which would make our size figure wrong. But if the speed of light changes, it affects lots of things - rates of atomic reactions, strengths of fields and forces, masses of particles. So if it were different, there's a bit of a consensus that the universe in the past would have been a lot more different to now than it appears to have been. It's an interesting idea though.

      Of course, one way in which universal expansion does "thin" the light is to dilute its energy, and hence reduce its frequency. And that's why we get a red-shift, which is how we know that there's expansion at all. So, actually, you're right! - but it's energy, not speed that's affected.

    2. Re:Speed of light inconsistencies by imsabbel · · Score: 1, Informative

      the speed of light slows down by 30% if it enters water or glass. This is nothing new.
      But interstellar space is mostly vacuum, so n is nearly 1, thus c is mostly correct.

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    3. Re:Speed of light inconsistencies by cluckshot · · Score: 1

      Your question is a valid one. A friend of mine used to annoy physics types by asking them what was the speed of gravity. Actually what you are asking is a very proper question regards the existence of the speed of light. Because if C is not a constant (E = mC^2) then you have to question the whole base of the formula.

      The speed of light is well observed not to be a constant. The supposed experiment that determined the "Speed of Light" The Michelson-Morley Experiment (M-M) is flawed because it assumes that the light is traveling and reflected by the mirrors without interaction. Actually the light is absorbed and retransmitted. What is more the light was stepping in transmission through the air medium or more precisely through the Phase Conjugate field in the locality of the experiment. (This latter being important as it is affected even in "Space" because there is a media there as well) As such this experiment only measured the speed of the "Local Transmitter." This always would measure as a "Constant" because if conditions varied to alter the speed of the local tranmitter they would also alter the distances etc.

      Fernbach of the University of Colorado pointed this out in the 1950's. He bluntly stated that Einstein was "Dead" and it would take the physics community at least 50 years to bury him. He also stated that the M-M experiment was the rought equal to sitting in an Airplane cabin with a pin wheel and noting that it was spinning assuming that one was measuring the speed of the plane.

      Having the rather strange honor of being the one who in 1995 laid out to NASA the physics behind thunderstorms and lightning (Red Sprites and Blue Jets included) which is now the fairly well established theory, I will tell you that I concluded my explanations on Lightning with the rather strange statement that the time had come to publically ask for any proof that gravity existed! Don't mistake me for not knowing that things fall. The question is WHY! I pointed out that the processes in the weather indicated that there was a defineable process for Anti-Gravity and that there was now to date no evidence what so ever in Physics that Gravity as a force independent of other forces existed. That the entire force known as Gravity could be explained in the EM Field as a cross product of what would best be described as EM Pressure Differential. Essentially that Energy repelled matter. (Probably a phase change issue here)

      I fully expect to hear from, in telling you this, some of the Physics Nuts who are like a religious cult unwilling to accept any new ideas and treating them as sacreligious acts. The problem with opening this discussion is that [1] the Dogmamatic Guys are really mean and [2] the facts don't support any of their activities.

      NASA has conducted Anti-Gravity experiments and so have many other people all of which use the principals I described. Facts tend to support my theory.

      The problem here is that the entire cosmological and other set of theories is laid on a foundation of G, C, and T. The problem is that G and C do not exist and T is a synthetic human construct having no reality what so ever. It is merely a mental tool to describe not a fact. Einstein was confronted with several strange facts if he abandoned G, C, and T. He was unwilling to accept them. The facts were in plain sight and he reported this!

      Essentially we are left back with an old theory from Maxwell regarding the Ether. The problem was that at the time we did not know that phase conjugate reflection was the primary mode of energy transmission. It is in fact the structure of matter. It is why induction works. It is also why things fall. (They are pushed!) It fits with all the observed laws and frankly is quite obvious when one throws out the Einstein mistakes and M-M.

      It is important also to understand the assumptions that were driving the M-M experiment and Einstein. The times showed a vast set of "Age of the Universe" theories which were tied to "science" because the anti-relig

      --
      Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
    4. Re:Speed of light inconsistencies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is irrelevant if the speed of light changes.

      Here is why:

      How do you define speed? It's distance/time, correct?

      What is the smallest unit of time then? Whatever it is, it's intimately related to to speed C. If C is the fastest speed, then the smallest time is the time it takes something moving speed C to move over the smallest distance.

      Whats the smallest distance then? It's the distance at which all of our laws of physics break down. The wave equation breaks down when you go too small (much smaller than elementary particles with their own wave equations).

      In any event, the smallest unit of time is irrelevent if they are all related. We can't tell how what happens between the frames of our reality.

      If the speed of C changed in some part of space, the whole of spacetime in that area would also change to the point you couldn't tell that it was different. To an observer outside the universe, C would be different, but so would the smallest distance. To an inside observer, nothing changes because time,distance, and C are related, so it's irrelevant.

      If the speed C changed, atoms would be smaller because the smallest distance would also have changed, but so would the space between them.

      You wouldn't be able to tell. The change cancels itself out.

    5. Re:Speed of light inconsistencies by Cyno01 · · Score: 1

      C is still the speed of light in a vaccum. Which equals 1.8026175 x 10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

      --
      "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
    6. Re:Speed of light inconsistencies by Colonel+Cholling · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid what you're talking about has nothing to do with the actual speed of light. Light, whenever it exists, always travels at c. You yourself said that the light is "absorbed and re-emitted." What this means is that the light travels, at c, until it hits a molecule. At this point the photon ceases to exist. It has been converted into a higher energy state in the molecule. Then, when the energy state returns to normal, another photon is emitted which travels at c. The only time in this process you have actual light (as opposed to stored states in atoms) it is moving at c.

      To understand why this is not a "slowing down" of light, think of a simple semaphore telegraph. You have a series of watchtowers several miles apart. Messages are passed from one end of the telegraph to the other via Morse code: a person in the first tower relays the message with a flashing light to the next tower, that person retransmits the message to the next tower, etc. Now if this telegraph system stretched across Asia, it would take hours, if not days, for a message to travel from one end to the other. This does not mean, however, that light has slowed down to a snail's pace, even though the light is what has been used to transmit the message. The slowdown comes from the time it takes the code operators to transcribe the message and then re-transmit it -- using different beams of light.

      Now, there's not a reputable physicist alive who isn't aware of the fact that light gets absorbed and re-emitted, and doesn't take that into account when considering the Michelson-Morely experiment and others like it. If you want to declare Einstein dead, resurrect the ether theory, and build an antigravity machine in your garage out of old VCR parts, you're going to have to do better than that.

      --

      I am Sartre of the Borg. Existence is futile.
  29. Deja Vu?? by UezeU · · Score: 1

    "Our experimental apparatus used to demonstrate this effect is shown in Figure 2A. A magnetically sheilded 4 cm cm long 87Rb cell is maintained...." 2nd page, 2nd column of Lukins paper The 87Rb is in vapor form... Sound like a vacuum tube to anyone???

  30. SF story with slow-light windowpanes? by pnagel · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I once read an SF short story that featured windowpanes which light took decades to pass through - thereby letting you look at the past.

    The story included the poignant scene of the protagonist looking out at his wife and child playing in the garden - but they had died 15 years earlier. The character used to hang around near the windows, hoping for glimpses of his dead wife, because he, of course, had no control over when he saw her; the windows would "replay the past" in strict linear sequence.

    Does anyone know the name & author of the story?

    In the story, the windowpanes were made of optical fibre nanotubes that were so tightly coiled up in the windows that the windows could accomodate tubes a few light-years long.

    This research suggests more feasibly ways of doing this, though.

    1. Re:SF story with slow-light windowpanes? by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Informative

      Bob Shaw, Other Days, Other Eyes. A poster above mentioned it.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    2. Re:SF story with slow-light windowpanes? by markxsd · · Score: 3, Funny
      This research suggests more feasibly ways of doing this, though

      A camera, tape and VCR might have offered him a more flexible long-term solution...

    3. Re:SF story with slow-light windowpanes? by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      I know this as "The Light of Other Days", perhaps it was retitled for an anthology.

    4. Re:SF story with slow-light windowpanes? by Compact+Dick · · Score: 1

      You, Sir, are most definitely not a romantic *sniffles*

    5. Re:SF story with slow-light windowpanes? by browman · · Score: 1

      There's an Asimov story on a similar theme. Only it's a huge box full of mirrors in that one... I think it's in 'The Complete Stories of Isaac Asimov' somewhere.

      --
      You fool! You've given cheese to a lactose intolerant volcano god! Do you know what that means?
    6. Re:SF story with slow-light windowpanes? by SpaceJunkie · · Score: 1

      I assume you mean Bob Shaw - an author mentioned three or four posts above.

      The implications of that are interesting. But I think controlling and temporarily holding light beams could lead to some seriously interesting optical devices.

      Imagine using the technology to build an optical logic gate system(I dont mean the quantum ones - I mean just gated light). I suspect the concept has been covered - and there are probably good reasons why we dont have not adopted systems based on this as opposed to electronic ones.

      Anyone care to enlighten me on this? This kind of thing is very relevant to OrionRobots.

      --
      OrionRobots.co.uk - Robots From sol
    7. Re:SF story with slow-light windowpanes? by red+floyd · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Light of Other Days is by Steven Baxter and Arthur C. Clark.

      --
      The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
    8. Re:SF story with slow-light windowpanes? by IAmRenegadeX · · Score: 1

      It would be interesting to construct such a device...what would the output look like, the moment construction was complete? a) a still picture, probably garbage, since the fibers weren't focused at any one scene? b) dark, since you are looking at a kind of a VHS-tape leader before the "show"? c) The Twilight Zone! I wonder what interference from adjacent strands would look like on the final output -- ghosts, for instance? Would you be able to look at the (impossibly) tight coil and see night/day bands moving through the system?

    9. Re:SF story with slow-light windowpanes? by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      You're both right. Imagine that, different SF authors using the same title.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
  31. Ah, but... by raehl · · Score: 1

    If it went in one color, and came out another color, what color was it when it wasn't moving?

    1. Re:Ah, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      red, of course. (And green before and after)

    2. Re:Ah, but... by CFTM · · Score: 1

      If a tree falls in the forest, does anyone care?

    3. Re:Ah, but... by harrkev · · Score: 1

      Simple. The color is related to the frequency.

      f=frequency
      l=wavelength
      c=speed of light in a medium.

      We know that fl=c, so f=c/l
      Since we set c=0, that yields f=0. Stopped light has no color!

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
  32. Color == frequency by flakac · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Light doesn't actually have "color". Color is our perception of the wavelength of the light. There's another article on BBC that explains the experiment in greater detail. Essentially, they didn't actually freeze the photons, ie. made them stop moving, but used a different method to make the photons bounce back and forth in place. So the "color" should have remained the same.

    1. Re:Color == frequency by Pebble · · Score: 1

      New Scientist has a better atical as well.

      http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns9 99 94474

    2. Re:Color == frequency by Ralgha · · Score: 1

      It should have become invisible if it retained all its energy. If you could still see the light when it was stopped then it wasn't stopped.

  33. Greatest breakthrough ever? by psychofox · · Score: 1, Informative

    According to the Slashdot summary, it is apparently possible to destroy energy!!! Issac Newton may turn in his grave...

  34. This is nothing new ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Stop lights has caused my whole car, not just the head and tail lights, to a complete stand still, even for minutes, one my way to work for decades !

  35. eavesdropping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    this will hopefully help the development of quantum computers and ways to communicate over long distances without being eavesdropped on."


    Uhhh, how about only using VoIP if it's encrypted?
  36. ^^Very Interesting, should get modded up^^ by John+Seminal · · Score: 1

    That is a fascinating idea, that by slowing down light you can look into the past. But there is a ramification, that if this would work then everything is pre-determined. And would you only get to look back on what that light ray would have been near, or would it not matter. Either way, it is fascinating.

    --

    Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."

    1. Re:^^Very Interesting, should get modded up^^ by pnagel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What do you mean by "then everything is pre-determined?" In one sense, obviously the previse nature of the past events of the past you see are pre-determined, because they already happened. Or do you mean that viewing the past confirms a Deterministic view of the universe? How so?

    2. Re:^^Very Interesting, should get modded up^^ by John+Seminal · · Score: 0
      If for example, you picked a time 10 years ago, and looked at a person from that time, one might think that there were many possibilities of what could happen in those 10 years to that person; like a tree, with each leaf being a possiblility of today's existance. That makes sence to the person 10 years in the past, they think they are making choices.

      What the original post said was someone had the idea of slowing down time to look back in the past. There is only one route to today's future, or should I say only one route to the past. No choices. Going backwards, you could connect all the dots. There are no choices. Perhaps our idea of freedom and choice is just an incorrect way at looking at time.

      --

      Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."

    3. Re:^^Very Interesting, should get modded up^^ by 49152 · · Score: 1

      nope

      You would not be able to "pick a time" with such a device.

      The whole point with those glasses was that light used several years to pass through from one side to the other beacause the nanotubes was in effect several light years long. (a light year is a measure of distance not time)

      If you created say a "one year glass" then it would be completly dark the first year because no light would have had time to pass through it yet. After that it would start to show things on the other side with a one year delay. It's nothing more than a fancy video recorder and even if such a thing was possible to make it would change nothing about how we understand time and space.

      In fact this is nothing new, anytime you look at a star your looking at the past. If the star your looking at is say 100 lightyears away then your seeing the star as it was 100 years ago simply beacause thats the time light used to reach you from that star. The hubble space telescope which is capable of seeing things billions of lightyears away is in essence seeing the universe as it looked a long time in the past.

      You might be right about determinism anyway, we simply just dont know yet, and perhaps we never will. But modern physics seems to suggest that the universe is not deterministic, of course it might be wrong, it has been before.

    4. Re:^^Very Interesting, should get modded up^^ by mlk · · Score: 1

      The OP has basicly described a video wall, with a webcam at the top, and a few years worth a storage.

      --
      Wow, I should not post when knackered.
  37. I thought it was to do with single photon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    transmissions (or something like that). If the NSA received these photons instead of the intended receipient, the intended receipient would know (due to loss of signal) and would inform the sender to stop sending (actually, assuming some kind of handshaking protocol, the transmission would be stopped by either end).

    Or is it to do with entangled photons? It's certainly not standard fibre optics as it's done at the moment.

    IANACE

  38. Freezing Light BS by TheDredd · · Score: 1, Funny

    Ha! if they were able to freeze light, where are the pictures of the stationary beam of light floating in the air!!
    Come on guys do you honestly think we will believe that in this day and age??

  39. Is brief really very long time for the Photon? by leoaugust · · Score: 5, Insightful
    have been able to stop light for a very brief period of time
    a very brief period of time ? .. I think it depends on what perspective you look at it from.

    I am just building my reasoning backwards. To understand what happens to the Photon when it stops, let's first see what happens to the photon when it moves at - well - the speed of light.

    From the quickest reference I could dig thru http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/6.07/es_warp.ht ml?pg=3&topic=

    Einstein also predicted that time itself must slow down for objects in motion. The faster you move, the slower your clocks would appear to tick - relative to someone watching from a remote location. If you could actually reach light speed, time would crawl to a stop. It's wildly counterintuitive, but experiments have proved it true.

    So, the faster the photon moves the slower the clocks would appear to move. Then, I guess, the slower the Photon moves the faster the clock would appear to move. And when the photon STOPS, the clock must be moving INSANELY FAST. So how could it be a very brief period of time ? .. I think it is a very very very long period of time.

    Guess, it all depends on which perspective you are looking at, and how you are measuring time ...

    --
    To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies ...
    1. Re:Is brief really very long time for the Photon? by fruey · · Score: 4, Informative

      They're not stopping the photon. They're simply storing it in several atoms quantum spin. Then they hit it again with a laser and get the earlier pulse back out of the quantum spin stored in the atoms. It's rather limited because, quoting from Science News

      So far, Hau and her team report the longest storage time for pulses--about a millisecond. By then, random atomic motion had washed out most pulse information, the researchers suspect. The Harvard-Smithsonian team reports that its pulses' information is erased partly because atoms escape from the region lit by the coupling laser.

      However your post should be modded funny, because it's a witty, clever response rather than the usual worn jokes which somehow seem to get modded up all too frequently.

      Reminds me of a childrens story I read once about a time machine, which was based on a nutty inventor who managed to build a car that got progressively faster. First of all it took a minute to get a specific distance, then 30 seconds, then 1 second, until in fact it took no time at all and then less than no time to get there until it ended up travelling backwards in time...

      --
      Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
    2. Re:Is brief really very long time for the Photon? by CapnJ0nes · · Score: 0, Funny

      And when the photon STOPS, the clock must be moving INSANELY FAST

      I sit here around 8 hours a day not moving at all...trust me, the clock does NOT move insanely fast.

    3. Re:Is brief really very long time for the Photon? by James+Lewis · · Score: 1

      I don't think it works that way. Einstein was simply talking about speed's effect on time, relative to another perspective. We aren't really "stopping" the photon, we are just making it match our speed. From our perspective, the photon's time was progressing slower while it was at light-speed, but when we stopped it its time is traveling at the same speed ours is. So even from the "photon's perspective" it stopped for a brief period.

    4. Re:Is brief really very long time for the Photon? by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      Of course you're joking (you are, right?), but while it is true that time moves infinitely slowly (in our reference frame) for a moving photon (it progresses noramlly for it, subjectively), time for a photon that's stationary in our reference frame would move at the same speed as it does for us.

    5. Re:Is brief really very long time for the Photon? by mlk · · Score: 1

      Put the clock in your bosses car, then drive at its top speed.

      --
      Wow, I should not post when knackered.
    6. Re:Is brief really very long time for the Photon? by Jerf · · Score: 1

      it progresses noramlly for it, subjectively

      If you can call experiencing precisely zero time passage between the time of its creation and the time of its destruction "normal progression", sure. Even if it's never destroyed, it still experience zero time. To the extent that statement even makes sense.

      It's true that 'time dilation' does not produce the sci-fi effect of "slowing things down" subjectively for the participants (although there's a great Stargate SG-1 episode on this subject!), when the thing in question gets all the way to "infinite dilation" the rules change a bit.

    7. Re:Is brief really very long time for the Photon? by anethema · · Score: 1

      Hm, if you traveled away from something at near the speed of light..isnt the speed of light a constant so the clock speed wouldnt change, all you would get is a general blue colour shifting of the light?

      --


      It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
    8. Re:Is brief really very long time for the Photon? by oblasi · · Score: 1

      The other question is what exactly does time mean for a photon?

      --
      The laws of physics are on my side. YOU LOSE.
    9. Re:Is brief really very long time for the Photon? by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      There's no reason to think photons have experiences, period. But if we do, a photon experiences no time in its transit through space, so nomally even a photon that could experience something wouldn't get any time to experience it in. In some exotic environments, such as a Bose Einstein condensate, a photon might actually be existing "for a time" from its (supposedly non-existant) point of view. So if a photon can experience something after all...
      Oh no, we're waking them up! What happens when they catch on?

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    10. Re:Is brief really very long time for the Photon? by Jerf · · Score: 1

      Photons, more or less by definition, are always traveling at the speed of light and experience 0 time. You can't slow a photon below light speed.

      The earlier "freezing" of a photon really wasn't, more of an imaging of the photon. The second photon produced in that experiment was identical at the quantum mechanical level so in a real way it was the same photon, but in terms of physical continuity there was a point where the photon ceased to be a photon, was "recorded", and was later "played back". At no time was it ever going slower then the speed of light.

  40. Re:oh you little fentster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Are you aware of the insult you were just posting? For those of you who don't know: fentster in German means Windows!

    Shame on you too!

  41. Faster than light by Eudial · · Score: 1

    Aand running faster than light suddenly isnt that stunning any more.

    --
    GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
  42. Isnt Speed of light linked to time? by PaulGrimshaw · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I thought speed of light was linked to time? If this is the case, what happens to time in this experiment? Apologies if I am being a twat.

    Paul.

    1. Re:Isnt Speed of light linked to time? by LemonYellow · · Score: 1

      Well, time is related to distance by the speed of light *in a vacuum*.

      I guess that the ways photons can stop moving are if they are trapped in a quantum well or if the permittivity of the medium they're travelling in is increased substantially (remember that light travels slower in a medium,) which may effectively be the same thing. So, these photons aren't travelling in a vacuum. Hence, the local speed of light can change without time being affected.

    2. Re:Isnt Speed of light linked to time? by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1

      Not quite. To attempt to put it simply, speed is linked to time, perhaps, and even then the speed of light *in a vacuum* is the only speed-of-light phenomenon that matters. The photons themselves routinely go slower than that when they pass through a dense medium. They're doing so right now, as they're going slowly through the air between your monitor and your face (air is denser than vacuum... everything is denser than a vacuum!)
      Your friendly neighborhood Cherenkov radiation (picture) thanks you.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  43. Finally by UezeU · · Score: 5, Funny

    We have the technology to create a lightsaber. I know what I'm asking Santa for Christmas now.

    1. Re:Finally by slipkid · · Score: 1

      Damn it, UezeU, you beat me to my joke!

      Sleep is really getting in the way of my Web surfing...

  44. The light particle was never frozen by CrystalFalcon · · Score: 4, Funny

    It was just slashdotted, and completely unable to move under the load.

  45. Back to Entanglement. by essreenim · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think you're missing the point.

    These experiments are all a stepping stone towards genuine quantum communication. Previous experiment such as those in Paris (by firing rhubidium through a photon of light)showed that scientists can no measure certain properties of light without destroying the photon, and then re-measure it. The problem was that for quantum communication, you need to disentangle 2 separate photons from an entangled state so that any change you make to one makes ann instantaneous change to the other, it's twin if you like and that can be done it seems. But, keeping the light fixed in a certain place is one of the tricky parts. If they ever succeed at refing these crystals to the extent that a photon can be kept in a deterministic state, then all you need is 2 of these crystals - you can imagine them being placed at opposite ends of our solar system, each crystal containing your premade entangled photon bouncing back and forth, with the crystal itself locked in some kind of black box (cavity).
    Presumablt the crystals would have small atomic/sub/atomic sized pin holes to fire the rhubidium or other material through one of the crystals. The the phase shif of the rhubidium caused by this firing also occurs at the other photon (because they are entangled). Then when you measure the phase shift of the second crystal, the difference is twice as great (i.e. the first phase shift plus the second phase shift0 - hence you know at the other end of the solar system, that it was fired. Now all you need is a model, to measure
    according to time, t. For example, one crystal could measure every odd microsecond, the other at every even microsecond.

    Now you have a unary turing machine, communicating between the stars!!!.

    1. Re:Back to Entanglement. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but if you slow down the speed of light, then comparitivly low velocities will experience relativistic effects, which is bound to affect the measurement of time t. :)

    2. Re:Back to Entanglement. by gnalle · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The the phase shif of the rhubidium caused by this firing also occurs at the other photon (because they are entangled). Then when you measure the phase shift of the second crystal, the difference is twice as great (i.e. the first phase shift plus the second phase shift0 - hence you know at the other end of the solar system, that it was fired.

      Do you have a reference for this? I feel stongly convinced that you cannot use the EPR experiment to transfer information at speeds that are faster than light speed. (Here information means that the people in Solar system A know that the people in Solar system B have performed a meassurement)

      However if physicists at Solar system A and Solar system B perform a meassurement at the same time, then their reasults will be correllated (and disbobey Bell's inequalities).

    3. Re:Back to Entanglement. by Atryn · · Score: 1

      Isn't this basically what the "philotic" connections in Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game series were accomplishing? Instant communication regardless of distance. His example didn't have all of the science behind it precisely, but SciFi often "speculates" what isn't yet known/proven.

      I believe in his example "philotes" were "connected" (read: atoms entangled). The threat to interstellar communications was that if one end was ever destroyed or otherwise "disconnected" (unentangled) you were basically SOL until a real ship with a new philotic computer could arrive.

      Imagine if you are the first colony in Vega and you lose your connection... unfortunately it will take at least 25 years (at the speed of light) for tech support to fix your problem. :)

      --
      Come play Moral Decay!
    4. Re:Back to Entanglement. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought no information could travel faster than speed of light.

    5. Re:Back to Entanglement. by krymsin01 · · Score: 1

      Actualy, a lot longer than that. It'll take 25 years for them to tell you to reboot, you'll take 25 years to tell them that you already did that, etc... etc...

      --
      stuff
    6. Re:Back to Entanglement. by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      There may be no practical way for people to know, but the photon knows. It's state is based, not on the initial state of the other photon, but whether the other photon has been measured.

      Nonlocality is a bitch. Maybe you're right, though, and the act of measurement creates a 'information particle' that sets out at the speed of light from the measured photon to the other one. The unobserved photon wouldn't collapse until it received this 'informationton'. That would preserve locality, though I don't think it's a part of any current theory.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    7. Re:Back to Entanglement. by essreenim · · Score: 1

      ESR are my reference, if the theory is coorect it should work, if not,...big scientific embarrassment!

  46. Let there be light, baby. by Channard · · Score: 5, Funny
    Is that going to be your pickup line at said bar?

    What's wrong with 'Does this smell like chloroform to you?'

    As for the frozen light, I'm thinking this will herald a new line in novelty items of the type sold at Spencer Gifts, only to be shoved in a cupboard two days later and never seen again.

    1. Re:Let there be light, baby. by NumLk · · Score: 1

      Is that going to be your pickup line at said bar?

      What's wrong with 'Does this smell like chloroform to you?'


      Or my favorite: Take the blue pill and see how deep the Matrix goes, or take the red pill and wake up tomorrow, thinking it was all a dream.

      --
      Children in the backseats don't cause accidents. Accidents in the back seats cause children.
    2. Re:Let there be light, baby. by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

      Or my favorite: what the fuck does your stupid pickup line have to do with frozen light? At least the others were vaguely relevant.

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
  47. Harvest time by POds · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Could this lead to harvisting light? As in, freeze large areas (100-1000m3) of light and then using the light to produce energy?

    Im not pretending to know what im talking about but it sounds as if one day we'll be able to cut light right out of the sky for where we dont need light, like on the moon or other planets. I was going to say antartica or the ocean but then i thought we'd prolly all die in huge freek weather storms or feeze to death.

    But being able to harvest light could be a pretty cool advancement for our growing energy needs. Maybe would could harvest it with huge satelites orbiting the sun and have the light transported back as high energy lazers?

    --


    Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
    1. Re:Harvest time by angusr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We aleady do harvest light (or at least part of the energy of light) for later use anyway - solar cells connected to batteries (as used on satellites, ISS, etc). I don't think storing the light and then converting to required power is going to be that much more effcient than converting to power and storing in batteries.

      Generating power in space and then "transmitting" back with lasers isn't a new idea, but does have certain drawbacks if anything goes wrong.

      Probably safer to use a Dyson shell... lots more power available on one of those. Ringworlds just don't cut it.

    2. Re:Harvest time by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1

      No, not really. Did you RTFA? What these people have done is to bounce a light pulse into a gas, have the gas store the data of the pulse, and then get it to spit it back out again. The actual photons have not been stopped, but they have been absorbed by the atoms in the gas. The problems with doing this en masse are probably related to the rather low energy capacity of the gas and what would be comparatively insane amounts of overhead required. Why not just stick up a solar panel/mirror/thingy?
      They've stopped the light-as-information, really, more than they have stopped the light-as-energy.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    3. Re:Harvest time by SpaceJunkie · · Score: 1

      Isaac Asimov took the principle of beaming suns energy back to earth as high energy lasers for granted in at least a few of his stories. In one of his most notable stories,"Reason" , a robot even has other robots worshipping a component of such a station as if it was some kind of Deity.

      --
      OrionRobots.co.uk - Robots From sol
    4. Re:Harvest time by dekashizl · · Score: 1
      I don't think storing the light and then converting to required power is going to be that much more effcient than converting to power and storing in batteries.
      Chemical storage in batteries is not the most efficient thing, so if that step could be bypassed or replaced with something it would be a boon.
  48. More Entanglement. by essreenim · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Oops, and forgot to mention,

    Though Einstein, Podosky and Rosen were able to monitor the effects of QE (Quantum Entanglement), no scientists yet know how an entangled pair of photons can have this "weird" communication.

    Some suspect a quantum bridge of some kind, whatever that would be..!
    I like to think it is one of natures gifts, it is wnough that we can dream of its use and who knows, maybe someday use it.

    So thats why eavesdropping would be imnpossible!!!

    The only hope for an eavesdropper would be to secretly take over the disentanglement process an manufacture a third photon (for his/her self)

    Then however communication would break down, because inevitably, the eaves dropper would measure his/her photon, creating an extra phase shift. Now communication between the 2 law-biding parties would have a triple phase shift, so they would immediately know someone is eavesdropping and cease communication. So, QE really would be the perfect way to communicate!

  49. Actually uncertainty applies here. by zCyl · · Score: 1

    The article is unfortunately sparse on details, but as a general principle, if you stop a photon without destroying its energy, you have a temporary violation of conservation of energy. This puts an approximate bound on the time you can keep the photon stopped, on the order of h/E, which is an extremely short time.

    1. Re:Actually uncertainty applies here. by whovian · · Score: 3, Informative

      You've got the right idea, but the Uncertainty Principle puts a lower bound on the mutual uncertainties in time and energy measured, ie,

      4 * pi * uncertainty in time * uncertainty in energy >= Planck's constant

      (I believe you can use the standard deviation as the uncertainty here.) This "law" that results from our model for quantum mechanics thus tends to put a limit on how fast a quantum/optical computer can be.

      --
      To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
    2. Re:Actually uncertainty applies here. by zCyl · · Score: 1

      You've got the right idea, but the Uncertainty Principle puts a lower bound on the mutual uncertainties in time and energy measured

      It also gives an estimate for the limits of violation of energy conservation (example: virtual photons).

    3. Re:Actually uncertainty applies here. by H.G.+Pennypacker · · Score: 1
      You've got the right idea, but the Uncertainty Principle puts a lower bound on the mutual uncertainties in time and energy measured...

      You are right, but at the same time the grandparent is correct too. From statistical considerations, it is not too hard to see that the uncertainty principle actually gives you an RMS value of energy or time, (or position or momentum). Because of this, you can use actual measurements (as opposed to their standard error) to do order of magnitude calculations of other quantities, say use momentum to estimate position. This gives you a rough measure of the magnitude of the quantities.

      --
      -- HG Pennypacker, wealthy industrialist and philanthropist
    4. Re:Actually uncertainty applies here. by wass · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You're on the right track, but the energy/time uncertainty relation doesn't really follow from the generalized uncertainty principle.

      The generalized uncertainty principle basically says that two non-commuting operators have a commutator [A,B]=iC where i is the sqrt(-1), then a limit on the product of their uncertainties is delta_A*delta_B>=/2. Where delta_A is, as you indicated, a statistical calculation of the uncertainty, or standard deviation. This can be explicitly proven (and was actually one of the questions on my quantum mechanics midterm 2 years ago). (In case anyone is wondering, a commutator [A,B]=AB-BA. It is not generally zero, because A and B are operators, not variables. In programming talk, it's actually very similar to how ++c and c++ differ. Ie, it depends if the increment comes before/after the value is returned.)

      This is most popular in terms of position/momentum, where the basic commutator of position/momentum operators is [x,p]=i*hbar. Thus, delta_x*delta_p>=hbar/2. Actually, the fact that [x,p]=i*hbar is one of the fundamental bases upon which most of quantum mechanics is based. (in case people are curious, in position space, momentum is referred to as the generator of translations, and thus will translate the position by some amount when it is measured. That's why position/momentum operators don't commute).

      Energy and time are somewhat different. Position and momentum are specific operators. Energy is an eigenvalue of the Hamiltonian operator (sometimes). But time is a parameter, not an operator. So you cannot apply the generalized uncertainty relation here.

      Now there is a rough uncertainty principle for energy/time, which goes as delta_E*delta_T>=hbar, but that isn't specifically well defined.

      Finally, yes there can be local violations of conservation of energy. And this is due to the energy/time uncertainty. In other words, particles and antiparticles can spontaneously form out of the vacuum on VERY SMALL time scales. Ie, in such a small time scale, you have, at minimum, a large energy uncertainty. And thus within this uncertainty energy is conserved. Thus, local violations of energy conservation.

      --

      make world, not war

  50. Mod Parent Up! by DesertFalcon · · Score: 1

    Informative. I was going to post the same thing, but there it is.

    --
    --- 11 meters/second, or 24 miles per hour - the airspeed velocity of an unladen European swallow. Really.
  51. What would the law enforcement implications be? by DesertFalcon · · Score: 1

    Make windows like this that replay from a few hours before. "I don't know what happened, Officer, but if we just wait about 15 minutes we'll be able to see it all in my window here."

    --
    --- 11 meters/second, or 24 miles per hour - the airspeed velocity of an unladen European swallow. Really.
  52. Free energy! by Channard · · Score: 4, Funny
    According to the Slashdot summary, it is apparently possible to destroy energy!!! Issac Newton may turn in his grave...

    And if we can hook him up to a dynamo and a generator, we've got free energy sorted. Truly, this is an age of wonders.

    1. Re:Free energy! by tarks · · Score: 0

      Now that's how the conservation of enery will still be satisfied: If we apparently destroy energy it is actually converted to rotational energy of Newton in his grave

  53. Very useful! by BallPeenHammer · · Score: 1, Funny
    I can imagine that soon people will be freezing, or canning, light in the summer, and storing it away for those long dark winter evenings.

    1. Re:Very useful! by Da+VinMan · · Score: 1

      Umm... we call that a battery. *duck*

      --
      Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
  54. Links to Quantum Cryptography information by dillkvast · · Score: 2, Informative

    On the subject securing optical links, quantum crypto is an interesting aproach. It is not useful to transmit a lot of data, but can be used in secure key interchange.

    More on this:
    here
    here
    and here

    --
    Scitne aliquis remedium potimum crapulae?
  55. Mirrors that don't show your reflection by corebreech · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Reading the study you linked to, it says that when the atomic excitation that makes this possible is converted back into light, the pulse can be propagated in either a forward or backward direction.

    Which should mean that you could create a sort of time-delayed mirror, wouldn't it?

    Hard to see how that would be useful, except perhaps as a gag of some sort.

    (Ha! Hard to see! Get it?)

    1. Re:Mirrors that don't show your reflection by CommandNotFound · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hard to see how that would be useful, except perhaps as a gag of some sort.

      I would expect that any method to slow/store light would be useful in networking. Essentially, one could then queue and route light as packets without converting them to electrons via a router, which is probably how it's done now.

  56. We tried... by StringBlade · · Score: 1

    but the damn flash kept getting stuck in the beam we were taking a picture of!

    --
    ...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
  57. A few more details by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 3, Informative

    This article gives a few more details, and here is the actual press release.

  58. ELO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So soon we'll be able to Xanadu forever.

  59. Say what? by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Informative

    "this will hopefully help the development of... ways to communicate over long distances without being eavesdropped on"

    We already have that. Light based fiber runs are impossible to tap into without having to break the connectivity to hook up an additional device. Of course, nothing goes coast-to-coast directly, so they're plenty of chances for the spooks to install their logging equipment at a switching station or router.

    The only way to communicate securely without encryption is to totally control physical access to the line, which just plain isn't gonna happen over long distances.

  60. No, no by vjzuylen · · Score: 4, Funny

    They've got it all backwards. They're supposed to be working on a way to increase the speed of light. How else are we going to accomplish a practical form of interstellar travel?

    --

    Hee-hee. Dying tickles!
    1. Re:No, no by esap · · Score: 1

      Well of course, they are not trying to send light to that interstellar travel. To make your spaceship move faster than light, I guess the best bet is to try to slow the light to reasonable speeds, so that you can then more easily exceed that speed! And if exceeding the speed of light is the silver bullet of interstellar travel, I would say they're doing exactly the right thing!

      --
      -- Esa Pulkkinen
    2. Re:No, no by rpj1288 · · Score: 1

      No no, silly. This way, once they slow down all the light in the universe, we'll constantly be going faster than light! This brings up a point. Since they slowed light, doesn't that mean something could move faster than it?

      --
      Marvin knew: "Think of a number, any number..."
  61. Stopped photons by Lost+Penguin · · Score: 1

    What would happen if you put too much "stopped light" in one place at the same time?
    Can we split or combine a photon?

    --
    I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
    1. Re:Stopped photons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      its a matter of forcing the photons together really if we put to many into one place the light would get brighter and brighter then eventually we could create perpetual light lol jk but seriously all that would happen would the light would get brighter and i think it may be possible to split a photon but problem being we need the tools to do so

    2. Re:Stopped photons by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      See, the stopped light isn't stored as photons... it's stored as energy in a gas, which will then produce another pulse of light identical to the incoming one when tickled with a laser. If you tried to jam too many photons in there, the gas would stop absorbing the photons, what you'd end up is a gas that's probably rather hot and has lost all the data of the incoming light pulses. Rather useless.

      Photons are quanta of energy; they are quite incapable of being split or combined. Consult your local library for books on quantam physics...

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    3. Re:Stopped photons by pclminion · · Score: 1
      Wrong. Here's a paragraph from here:

      "Earlier experiments on the storage of light stored only the 'signature' of the light pulses in a process somewhat similar to creating a hologram," said Bajcsy. "There were no signal photons present in the medium when the light was being stored. Our experiment, on the other hand, 'traps' actual signal photons inside the rubidium vapour in such a way that the overall signal pulse does not travel."

      They are quite literally stopping the light.

      Photons are quanta of energy; they are quite incapable of being split or combined. Consult your local library for books on quantam physics...

      You'd go to the public library to learn about physics? No wonder your understanding is so botched and incomplete... I suppose you think what happened in this experiment is a figment of everyone's imagination? Quantum electrodynamics predicted that photons can split decades ago, and now they've done an experiment to prove it.

  62. Does the light go off... by pipingguy · · Score: 1


    If you have a really, really cold fridge and you open the fridge door really, really fast, you too can witness frozen light.

  63. Re:What does this mean for space travel? Anything? by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    If you walk past the experiment setup, are you then travelling faster than light?

    (sorry, it's a bad morning and I just can't seem to fucs on work)

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  64. Great.... by SaturnTim · · Score: 1, Funny


    We haven't even reached the speed of light, and already they have a speed trap.

    --
    http://www.theMediaBunker.com
  65. My light powered car... by axiom255 · · Score: 1

    ...converts stopped light into motion. The gas station replaces the spent stopped light gas with charged gas.

    Hmmm...I wonder if I drank stopped light, would the sun would shine out of my.....

  66. Who turned out the lights! by n3z0rf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Correct me if this is wrong but wound't stopped light be dark... So in turn they have effectively made very expensive and complex light switch??

  67. What they're actually doing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Some people have posted claims that this is similar to the earlier experiments of Lene Hau, where the light pulse was indeed stored as excitations in trapped atoms (either in a BEC as in Hau's case, or in a vapor cell as in Lukin's earlier experiment).

    This is quite different from what's going on here. In this experiment, two lasers are used to polarize the atomic vapor as a function of position, and then bouncing light off that polarization gradient. Think of what happens when you put light in between two highly reflecting mirrors, and let it bounce back and forth. Then think about what happens if you nest thousands of these mirrors within each other, so that if the photon leaks out of one, it has to deal with the next one, only one wavelength away. Since the photon is spending so much time bouncing back and forth, it doesn't really have a chance to escape the gas, and so we say that it's trapped.

    It's essentially a new way of making a high quality cavity.

  68. if we can slow it, can we speed it up? by Ian+0x57 · · Score: 1

    First thought that came to my minds was, if we can slow light down, i wonder if one day we could speed it up..... Isn't that crazy. If we could increase the speed of light could we travel faster ? Sound travels at a specific speed, but we can speed it up.

    1. Re:if we can slow it, can we speed it up? by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1

      Well....
      a) Consider that light has been traveling slower than the speed-of-light for billions of years- every time that light is traveling through something that's not a vacuum.
      b) Consider that they didn't slow down the photons in the light, they just got this gas to "record" the light pulse and then play it back a millisecond later. Not quite the same thing.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    2. Re:if we can slow it, can we speed it up? by Bullschmidt · · Score: 1

      Actually, no, they didn't get the gas to record the light. Thats what the LAST article did. This one stopped it w/o destroying the original photon.

      Kevin

      --
      "Of all days, the day on which one has not laughed is the most surely the one wasted." -Sebastian Roch Nicol
    3. Re:if we can slow it, can we speed it up? by hyperstation · · Score: 1

      oh god, my brain is going to explode...

  69. Squant by the_consumer · · Score: 1

    EOM

    --
    "If you're thinking what I'm thinking, you're right." -
    1. Re:Squant by zzendpad · · Score: 1

      Do you know how many time zones there are in the Soviet Union??

    2. Re:Squant by the_consumer · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      --
      "If you're thinking what I'm thinking, you're right." -
  70. faster then light travel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    If we have basically stopped light bringing it to zero miles per second...does that mean we have traveled faster than the speed of light?

    Nick: Thetribble (just applied and cant get my e-mail yet to get my password)

  71. Color != frequency by cookie_cutter · · Score: 1

    You are incorrect. There is no corresponding frequency of light for the color white, nor for many other colours. White is simply our perception when the red, green and blue photoreceptors in our eyes are equally stimulated. The only colours with corresponding light frequencies are those which you find in the colours of the rainbow.

    1. Re:Color != frequency by Izago909 · · Score: 1

      It's actually Cyan, Yellow, and Magenta if you want to get technical. RGB works with pigments, monitors, TV, etc, because of the colors the cones of our eyes sense.

    2. Re:Color != frequency by thufir · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sorry friend, but he is correct and you are wrong.

      He stated the 'color' of our photo receptors. Although our photo receptors pick up C, Y, and M -- it is because their colors (as he said) are R, G, and B.

      ie: the Red Photoreceptor reflects RED, that is why it is a red colored photoreceptor. Since it reflects RED, it picks up BLUE and GREEN, which make one of the (secondary) colors you mentioned.

      You are also wrong saying that RGB is used for pigment. Pigment gets its color by absorbing color, and you see what is reflected. RGB is used for TVs and Monitors where there is a direct source of light.

      Cheers!

    3. Re:Color != frequency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, here's the attack free, sciencey version-

      We have a high wavelength ("red"), a middle wavelength ("green") and a low wavelength ("blue") set of cones. They are shaped the same way, but have a different photoactive chemical.

      In fact, each cone actually responds to a range of light frequencies- however a low wavelength cone has its peak excitation in the blue, a middle wavelength cone has its peak excitation in the green, and a high wavelength cone has its peak excitation in the red.

      The reason you can't just map colors to cones is because of the way they are wired into your brain. For instance, if you shine a blue light into your eye, your low wavelength cones are active, your middle wavelength cones are kinda active, and your high wavelength cones are not active at all. Cells add these together, and you get blue.

      But if you were to *just* stimulate the "blue" cones, you would see violet! Violet light only stimulates the low wavelength cones, and without the addition of the middle wavelength cones, you percieve violet, not blue. Purple looks like violet to our eyes: it is what you see when you have both blue and red light. This works because the red light stimulates the the high wavelength cones, and one of the calculations your brain does is to "subtract" the input from the middle and high wavelength cones- so the red serves to "eliminate" your perception of the green, and so you see purple.

      Now, as for the additive-subtractitive holy war (RGB are additive, CMY are subtractitive)...

      Displays have tiny littly ways of sending out light. Since the monitor is by default black, you want to send out the smallest sections of light possible- so we use red, green, and blue. If monitors glowed white and we had to cover tiny sections with crystals that would be either transparent or opaque, then we would use cyan, magenta, and yellow- but instead, it's paper that works that way.

      Anyway, I know it's way off topic, but I'm a color nerd.

    4. Re:Color != frequency by Physics+Dude · · Score: 1
      He stated the 'color' of our photo receptors. Although our photo receptors pick up C, Y, and M -- it is because their colors (as he said) are R, G, and B.
      ie: the Red Photoreceptor reflects RED, that is why it is a red colored photoreceptor. Since it reflects RED, it picks up BLUE and GREEN, which make one of the (secondary) colors you mentioned.

      Ouch! I'm not sure where you got this (mis)information, but it is entirely incorrect.

      The photoreceptors (cones) in our eyes are named for the colors they are sensitive to, not the colors they appear. The 'Red' photoreceptors in our eyes are most responsive to RED light, not cyan. If you pick up any book on vision or do a cursory google search you can find graphs showing the response curves for each type of cone and how they overlap in the visible frequency spectrum. See here for example.

    5. Re:Color != frequency by kmac06 · · Score: 1

      You are incorrect. He was talking about individual photons, which always have a certain wavelength, and a definite color.

    6. Re:Color != frequency by Hal-9001 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, friend, but you've spouted complete rubbish. You got the bit about pigment mixing vs light mixing correct, but then you use it completely incorrectly to describe the visual process. First, color vision is a light mixing process. It has to be, because the only stimulus from which to determine color is the color of the light that enters the eye. Thus, the cones (color photoreceptors) in the retina must be sensitive to RGB, not CYM. Second, the color associated with a photoreceptor is the color it's sensitive to, not the color it appears. Thus, the red photoreceptor is sensitive to red, green to green, and blue to blue. If one were to look at them, though, they would probably all look red, because the color vision protein is just one protein out of the many in each photoreceptor. Third, vision is an absorption process, not a reflection process. The absorption process causes a conformal change in a protein (the energy of the photon is used to change the shape of the protein), which is detected and stimulates a neural response. Reflection does not generate any sort of physical change, thus it doesn't make sense for vision to be a reflective process.

      --
      "It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
    7. Re:Color != frequency by thufir · · Score: 1

      What I said was correct, although simplified.

      You are obviously misinterpreting what I said, as out of the multiple points you are attempting to make, only one applies to what I said.

      ie: I said nothing about reflection generating the electrical signal. I know how cone cells work. OBVIOUSLY you must absorb SOMETHING to create a signal.

      Now, to settle your misconception of the cone cells and what colors they pick up, if you look at the graph that the other poster provided, you will see what I was saying: that there ARE NO receptors which pick up RED, BLUE or GREEN at their peak sensitivity!

      One receptor picks up a range from red to green, the other a range from reddish orange to purplish blue, the last one picks up from green to violet.

      enjoy.

    8. Re:Color != frequency by Hal-9001 · · Score: 1
      From your parent post:
      He stated the 'color' of our photo receptors. Although our photo receptors pick up C, Y, and M -- it is because their colors (as he said) are R, G, and B.

      ie: the Red Photoreceptor reflects RED, that is why it is a red colored photoreceptor. Since it reflects RED, it picks up BLUE and GREEN, which make one of the (secondary) colors you mentioned.
      The statement of the photoreceptors picking up CYM is oversimplified to the point of being completely incorrect. One cannot generate cyan or magenta with photons of a single wavelength only. Your new statement that "One receptor picks up red to green..." is correct, and a logical conclusion to draw from this is that that the brain must synthesize the data it receives from the photoreceptors to determine exactly what color it is seeing.

      The statement that the red photoreceptor reflects red represents, at the very least, a fundamental difference in interpretation. The graph that you linked is the absorption spectra for each receptor, and follows my convention of describing each photoreceptor by the color that it detects. What you have called the red photoreceptor would be called the blue photoreceptor under this interpretation.

      I should also add that peak sensitivity is irrelevant. Besides the physical difficulty of generating a narrow absorption line, it would be an evolutionary disadvantage to have photoreceptors that were sensitive only to red, blue, and green, because then one would not be able to see spectrally pure yellow or orange objects, or even shades of red, blue or green that fell outside the absorption lines of the photoreceptors. The overlap of the absorption spectra enables the brain to know that a combination of red and green could be yellow or orange--once again, it's up to the brain to determine what color it's actually seeing.

      In any case, I believe you and I would agree on one thing, which is that color vision is a much more complicated phenomenon than most people might think! ;-)
      --
      "It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
  72. Fiberoptics? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm.. maybe we now can get cheap fiberoptics? If you lay a few meters with fiberoptic cable in both end, you can freeze the signal and send it by snailmail in between.....

  73. Ob Simpsons Quote by krammit · · Score: 1

    "Since the beginning of time man has yearned to destroy the sun. I will do the next best thing..."Freeze it!

    --
    "Watch your cornhole, bud."
  74. Does anybody know? by AndrewWood · · Score: 1

    I'm no physics expert, but if you could truly stop light (as it seems this experiment has still not really done), does that imply that the photons would age while they are stationary? Perhaps they would still be travelling at c, with significant motion diverted to the time dimension? Any real physicists out there who can elaborate on why I'm talking out my ass?

  75. Nostalgia by draxredd · · Score: 0

    The speed of light ain't what it used to be.

    --
    --- Back to the trees, back to the trees !
  76. Re: Too literal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope you meant that as a joke, cuz they aren't literally "freezing" light.

  77. Re: networking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah! Everyone wants SLOWER NETWORKS!

  78. Dumbass alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey, dumbass, you're the incorrect one. Red, green, and blue? Eyes aren't cathode ray tubes! It's cyan, yellow, and magenta for human eyeballs.

    Read your shit next time before you spout off.

    1. Re:Dumbass alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Our eyes do have red, green, and blue photoreceptors, you fucking retard.

  79. A whole new meaning to dupes... by meznak · · Score: 1

    The reason it's old news (Score:5, Funny)
    by ch-chuck (9622) on 14:19 08 January 2002
    (#2806003)

    is that they've not only stopped light, but made it go backwards, reversing time, so this 'discovery' got projected into the future, where we're reading about it now as if it were new, altho it's been done some time ago.

    --
    Evil is the money of all root.
  80. Dumbass alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Morris code? It's Morse code, you fucking idiot. Read up on your shit before spouting off and making yourself look like a huge moron in front of thousands of people.

  81. Star Wars by Uart · · Score: 1

    This leads us one step closer to every geek's dream - a real working lightsaber. The thing about a lightsaber is that the beam stops at a certain point. If we can freeze light, then perhaps we can also limit the beam to a certain length, allowing geeks everywhere to prepare themselves to do battle...

    or something.

    --

    Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
  82. Black hats smile this day! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank God! Now there's proof of concept for crippling an optical Internet.

  83. Obligatory Simpsons reference by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 1

    Yeah. In this house we obay the laws of thermodynamics!

    --
    Drill baby drill - on Mars
  84. Man in the middle? by zipwow · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What about a man in the middle attack? You buy your entangled photon pair from my SneakyFactory. What I really sell you is two unrelated photons, while keeping their "actual" twins in my factory. Long before I delivered you your pair, I've set up my end of things to immediately record whatever comes in, and communicate it to the other photon.

    Is there anything that stops this sort of attack? The only thing I can imagine is some sort of timing measurement..

    -Zipwow

    --
    I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
    1. Re:Man in the middle? by lurker412 · · Score: 1

      Good grief. I hope you're not losing any sleep about this possibility.

    2. Re:Man in the middle? by Scott+Carnahan · · Score: 1

      Is there anything that stops this sort of attack?

      Yes. The communication scheme described by eesreenim doesn't work, since entangled states by themselves cannot transmit information. The man in the middle will not be able to intercept any communications, because they will not happen in the first place.

      --
      "Your notation sucks!" -- Serge Lang (1927-2005)
    3. Re:Man in the middle? by zipwow · · Score: 1

      Well, the 'other' part that I've heard about entanglement is that once they're entangled, any change to the spin (I think its the spin) in one object is also seen instantaneously in the other object. And I mean instantaneously, the quantum state doesn't seem to travel the intermittant distance.

      Here's a reference, its just an abstract of a 2001 seminar, but it outlines the kinds of things we're talking about:
      http://www.physics.umass.edu/seminars/abstract$gro up=2001a&key=s00000035

      --
      I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
    4. Re:Man in the middle? by Scott+Carnahan · · Score: 1

      Well, the 'other' part that I've heard about entanglement is that once they're entangled, any change to the spin (I think its the spin) in one object is also seen instantaneously in the other object.

      No. If you make identical measurements of spin at distant locations, you will notice they are well correlated, but this effect cannot be used to transmit information faster than the speed of light. Indeed, the information content in the correlation came from deciding which measurement to make. If you change the spin of one of the particles (e.g. by measuring it), you lose your entanglement - this process is called decoherence. You do not affect the state of the other particle at all. Teleportation requires both quantum entangled pairs and a classical "scan" with the associated information sent via conventional means.

      --
      "Your notation sucks!" -- Serge Lang (1927-2005)
    5. Re:Man in the middle? by zipwow · · Score: 1

      (*does some reading*)

      Ahhh, the key here is that you can't influence the behavior of either photon, you have to let them make their own random choice, and measure that. That inability to influence the choice nixes any transmitting of information.

      But, since they always make the *same* random choices, you can interpret those as a one-time pad, and use that for encrypting some message you send via regular channels. (right?)

      So the answer to my original question is no, even if its reprhased to ask about encryption rather than communication. You can't modify the pairs, so the set of random choices will be different (unless you're really, really lucky).

      Right?

      -Zipwow

      --
      I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
    6. Re:Man in the middle? by essreenim · · Score: 1

      I'm tired. and I think you are missing the point!!

    7. Re:Man in the middle? by essreenim · · Score: 1

      Oh, dear,

      Thats the whole point. I'm talking about a primitive Tuting machine communication here, which IS possible, not a sophisticated high bandwith internet connection between Mars and Gargon 5.

      And by the way, the very reason they went through the horrible pain of using rubidium in the first place was to AVOID decoherance.

      If you bothered to study the experiments of ENS, you would see that the whole point was to repeatedly remeasure the phase shift without damaging the photon of light,but instead merely, of course, changing it's phase. The experiment was a great success and paves the way for far more exotic experiments,..

    8. Re:Man in the middle? by essreenim · · Score: 1

      No Scott,

      Teleortation, again, is a completely different, far more advanced application of entanglement and is not applicable here.

      Actually, it's not even genuine teleporation, it's actually allot more like replication!!

      In fact I would say it IS replication/duplication, whatever you want to call it, but it's very interesting!

      : )

    9. Re:Man in the middle? by essreenim · · Score: 1

      I think you understand what I'm tallking about with:

      "*same* random choices"

      but 1-time pad, slow down there, that again is another ball game,

      but interesting none the less, don't you just love a goo aphine cipher?

      : )

  85. Finally, my area of expertise by edrain · · Score: 2, Informative

    Off topic, admittedly, but I just googled 'tequila sunrise recipe' and here are the first three actual recipes returned:
    First
    Second
    third

  86. Secure Communication over long distances by muchmusic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If I remember correctly, there is a very simple reason that communication via light would be secure -

    In the quantum world, if you interact with the light, you change it in some way, no matter what, and since eavesdropping would involve interacting with the signal, the signal would not be exactly the same.

    --
    -- If an artist saw things as they truly are, they would cease to be an artist.
  87. Quantum Cryptography implications. by JDizzy · · Score: 1

    After looking at the pdf file that describes the process, I have to conclude that this would be ideal for a fibre-optic man-in-the-middle attack on quantum crypto. The whole thing hinges on the idea that the quantum spin of the photos are preserved after being observed, which this process appears to achive. The main focus of the pdf is about the exact nature of the quantum states of the photon's after being stored. This storage (in a supper cold gas cloud) could incorporate detectors with enough thru-put to possibly support the bandwitdh to tap a real quantum crypto setup.

    Who knows, but this could lead to new technology that breaks the one-time-pad nature of optical quantum-crypto.

    --
    It isn't a lie if you belive it.
  88. Slow Glass by combinatorics · · Score: 1

    This is science fiction come true. Bob Shaw's, "The Light of Other Days" has the concept of slow glass which would transmit light so slowly that it could be used to view the past.

    Now it can be done!

    --
    Dada ended art.
  89. stopping light by ericlakin · · Score: 1

    I did a few calculations on my Windows calculator and discovered that if they really did stop light it would cause a tear in the space-time continuum, so I think they are lying.

  90. "I think it's moving us in the right direction," by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    but i just cant tell where it is!

  91. Large energy in a small space by Animats · · Score: 1
    Does this provide a way of packing large amounts of energy into an arbitrarily small space? That's always useful for pushing the limits of physics.

    Supposedly, if you were able to create a powerful enough light beam, the gravitational attraction of the photons would, over a sufficient distance, narrow the beam down to near-zero diameter. Is this progress in that direction?

  92. Not necessarily... by raehl · · Score: 1

    What if it just has no wavelength? ;)

    1. Re:Not necessarily... by mingust · · Score: 1

      Maybe light is only a particle after all! (Ignoring the De Broglie (sp) wavelength) Supposing the frequency is zero, this means the 'photon energy' (E=hf) is zero as well. What kind of energy, then, does the photon have when it is motionless?

      --
      ~mingust
    2. Re:Not necessarily... by some+guy+I+know · · Score: 1
      What kind of energy, then, does the photon have when it is motionless?
      I don't know about photons, but I find that I usually have very little energy when I'm motionless, or vice versa, anyway.
      Maybe that's how the scientists were able to stop the photon, by just making it so tired that it had to stop and rest for a while.
      --
      Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
  93. Or as Douglas Adams put it... by CrystalFalcon · · Score: 2, Funny

    Nothing travels faster than light, with the possible exception of bad news.

    The Foo people of Bar actually tried to use this fact, and built a spaceship entirely powered by bad news, but found that wherever they went they were so extremely unwelcome that there wasn't really any point in being there.

  94. That's nothing! by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 1

    My ex wife can stop laser and flashlight beams (pointed at her face) and peel paint off a battleship at 1,000 yards since she let her self go and quit wearing makeup.

    I've been trying to get a patent on her technique but Darl's other brother, Darl, has been claiming prior art because she looked a box of redhat once on a shelf.

    You just can't win, can ya??

  95. As Heisenberg once said: by tie_guy_matt · · Score: 1

    Sure you can tell exactly how fast it is going (not moving) but you will have no clue as to where it is in space!

  96. Dark is Faster than Light by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

    source: google cache of
    www.msu.edu/user/dynicrai/physics/dark.htm

    THE DARK SUCKER THEORY

    For years, it has been believed that electric bulbs emit light, but recent information has proved otherwise. Electric bulbs don't emit light; they suck dark. Thus, we call these bulbs Dark Suckers.

    The Dark Sucker Theory and the existence of dark suckers prove that dark has mass and is heavier than light.

    First, the basis of the Dark Sucker Theory is that electric bulbs suck dark. For example, take the Dark Sucker in the room you are in. There is much less dark right next to it than there is elsewhere. The larger the Dark Sucker, the greater its capacity to suck dark. Dark Suckers in the parking lot have a much greater capacity to suck dark than the ones in this room.

    So with all things, Dark Suckers don't last forever. Once they are full of dark, they can no longer suck. This is proven by the dark spot on a full Dark Sucker. The dark which has been absorbed is then transmitted by pylons along to power plants where the machinery uses fossil fuel to destroy it.

    A candle is a primitive Dark Sucker. A new candle has a white wick. You can see that after the first use, the wick turns black, representing all the dark that has been sucked into it. If you put a pencil next to the wick of an operating candle, it will turn black. This is because it got in the way of the dark flowing into the candle. One of the disadvantages of these primitive Dark Suckers is their limited range.

    There are also portable Dark Suckers. In these, the bulbs can't handle all the dark by themselves and must be aided by a Dark Storage Unit. When the Dark Storage Unit is full, it must be either emptied or replaced before the portable Dark Sucker can operate again.

    Dark has mass. When dark goes into a Dark Sucker, friction from the mass generates heat. Thus, it is not wise to touch an operating Dark Sucker. Candles present a special problem as the mass must travel into a solid wick instead of through clear glass. This generates a great amount of heat and therefore it's not wise to touch an operating candle. This is easily proven for lightbulbs too. When you compress a gas, it gets hot, right? So the light bulb gets hot because of all the dark being squished into the wires.

    Also, dark is heavier than light. If you were to swim just below the surface of the lake, you would see a lot of light. If you were to slowly swim deeper and deeper, you would notice it getting darker and darker. When you get really deep, you would be in total darkness. This is because the heavier dark sinks to the bottom of the lake and the lighter light floats at the top. The is why it is called light.

    Finally, we must prove that dark is faster than light. If you were to stand in a lit room in front of a closed, dark closet, and slowly opened the closet door, you would see the light slowly enter the closet. But since dark is so fast, you would not be able to see the dark leave the closet. So next time you see an electric bulb, remember that it is not a light emitter but a Dark Sucker.

  97. I must say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Imagine a beowulf cluster of these!!!

  98. Re:Who wants to stop light? (I know, Offtopic too) by pjotrb123 · · Score: 1

    if you don't like it, close your damn eyes!

    Tell that to the nocturnal animals who can't feed or breed properly due to light pollution.
    Tell that to the people who enjoy gazing at the wonderful milky way during the night.
    Tell that to the astronomers who no longer can do their jobs from the ground.

    sheesh indeed...

    --
    I liked my next sig a lot better
  99. stopping light by grey3 · · Score: 1

    Can light actually be stopped? Isn't the photon a massless particle that only exists in a state of movement, and if it isn't moving, it doesn't exist?

  100. Re:Interesting but... by pablo_max · · Score: 0

    I was under the impression that the way that quantum communication was to take place was with quantum entanglement. That being the case, there is no transmission line to tap at all. As has been demonstrated, entangled particles effect each other instantly regardless of distance. Meaning you could have one on the moon and one at the sun at when you messed with one the other would be messed with the same way at the same time. So really, it makes no difference weather the NSA or anyone else can tap a fiber cable. Well, now it does, but not at the point when they figure out how to keep particles entangled.

  101. Photon Torpedos anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So if you hold the energy for a short time, can you do it for a long time and release it all at once?

  102. Parent is misinformed. by Scott+Carnahan · · Score: 1

    ... by firing rhubidium [sic] through a photon of light ...

    This is completely meaningless. Photons don't occupy volume in any well-defined way.

    The problem was that for quantum communication, you need to disentangle 2 separate photons from an entangled state so that any change you make to one makes ann instantaneous change to the other, it's twin if you like and that can be done it seems.

    This is not how a quantum cryptosystem works. See this article, and note that the technique that currently seems to show the most promise for cryptography is (A). Messages cannot be transmitted faster than the speed of light in a vacuum, as relativity dictates that your actions cannot affect a distant "simultaneous" measurement, and no one has found a reproducible experiment to contradict this assertion (despite lots of trying). It is a popular misconception that quantum entanglement can be used to communicate instantaneously, but the correlations that are measured do not actually cause any exchange of information. If you do something to one of your photons, it will simply destroy the entanglement.

    --
    "Your notation sucks!" -- Serge Lang (1927-2005)
    1. Re:Parent is misinformed. by essreenim · · Score: 1

      Quantum Cryptography is a completely different thing, it is not utilizing the quirky "strangeness" of the quantum universe, rather the non-deterministic uncertain nature of quanta, you simply can't compare them, you are referring me to an irrelevant article!

    2. Re:Parent is misinformed. by essreenim · · Score: 1

      You said: "If you do something to one of your photons, it will simply destroy the entanglement" This is wrong!! rubidium does not take any energy away from light therefore the catastrophic chaotic cascading you refer to does not have a chance to occur. See a nicely written article here:> or ENS home, here

  103. a simple misunderstanding by misterpies · · Score: 1


    I think you misunderstood. I meant that a massive particle travelling faster than light gives off Cherenkov radiation, not that such a particle was Cherenkov radiation. Naturally the radiation itself travels at the (local) speed of light, just like the sonic boom given off by a supersonic jet travels at the speed of sound.

    --
    The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
    1. Re:a simple misunderstanding by trentblase · · Score: 1

      Ah I understand... I mis-parsed your paragraph. So is the little flash of light that the Enterprise gives off after going to warp speed Cherenkov radiation? :)

  104. Re:Who wants to stop light? (I know, Offtopic too) by croddy · · Score: 1
    waah waah my heart is bleeding so badly I FORGOT TO LAUGH

    dumbass

  105. Re:What does this mean for space travel? Anything? by FunkyRaven · · Score: 1

    You are going faster than that particular light, but not faster than c. You would need to actually be inside the medium that the light was measured in, which seems pretty impossible. Of course, you would also need to walk past it in less than a millisecond, too.