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ReplayTV Price Drop Bait-and-Switch
jkeyes writes "Last week on 12/17 DNNA (new parent company of Replay TV) decided to drop the Replay TV 5504 model down to $149, yet the boxes and website said that it came with three years free service. So immediately it appeared on deal sites like FatWallet with Replay telling people on the phone who called that yes all 5504 models include 3 years of service so immediately Circuit City & Amazon sold out. Then on the 12/22 DNNA released a press release annoucing the new price and claiming that the 5504 models NO LONGER have 3 years free with them and blamed the retailers for dropping the price too soon. Even though their own Customer Service Reps were saying when it first dropped that you got 3 years free. Also to add to the issue the actual devices have giant green stickers on them saying Three Years Free AND a paper inside telling you this. Replay went on to say that if you had a problem with this or your replay was deactivated to just return it to the retailer you purchased it from."
I thought you could.
Goo goo g'joob.
Replay went on to say that if you had a problem with this or your replay was deactivated to just return it to the retailer you purchased it from.
Well, so people have a problem, they got a rotten deal, so they can return it and get their money back. Sounds like basically they have the right to exercise their 3 year warranty immediately.
(By the way, the solution to any ReplayTV problem is called Tivo. Even without dodgy deals, it's always been a better idea to get a Tivo than a ReplayTV)
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
I'm on my second Tivo (upgraded to DirecTV with Tivo in order to get two channel recording capability), and couldn't be happier. I've never had a problem.
...a free commemorative poster of images obtained from the Beagle 2 mars lander. Sounds like a good company to me.
subscription-based digital VCR makes you a TV sharecropper.
Could you explain the reasoning behind your statement?
Tivo has recently gone to the $30 per call service fee (although it is refunded if it isn't dumb user syndrome). Add the long wait times and you already start out upset. The upside is Tivo doesn't require much maintenance. And over at www.tivocommunity, which is hosted on Tivo's servers yet not affiliated(?) you can get almost anything answered. TivoPONY is a great user, plus you get messages from the likes of TivoSHANNON who sometimes shows up in your under a Tivo yellow star to hawk the HMO, grrrrowl.
...takes some balls to blatently rip off consumers. Especially to be so nonchalant about it.
I believe there was a Ask Slashdot a few weeks ago regarding building your own PVR. The majority of the comments seemed say "Why bother, just buy a TIVO/Replay TV, its already done for."
Well, this is why you roll your own. Yes, its a little more work, the cost is pretty much the same, but there is no monthly fee, and features don't get yanked out from under you.
MythTV is absolutely amazing, and its evolving incredibly fast. If your lookinng for a PVR, I recommend giving it a shot.
Hasn't it occured to most people here that a lot of the deals and rebates are just crap? Case in point...
A few weeks ago I attempted to purchase the Dell Axim x3i when it went on sale for $79. Dell took down the website and then put it back up. For those of you who know, this particular Axim actually runs for $379. Maybe it was a pricing mistake but when Dell left the page up, I thought they would send out the system. Didn't happen. In the days following our cancelled orders, Dell gave all sorts of rubbish answers to cover up the issue. Some people actually got their Axims, most others did not. The last story we heard was the deal was not a mistake but for corporate customers. I guess I was pretty irrate that I had ten different reasons for not getting my Axim and they all sounded like lies.
More recently, Circuit City was offering three rebates on a particular hard drive. However, the third rebate would not print so a 160gb drive which would have cost between $30-$40 actually cost double that. Bait and switch? You better believe it. The rebate house said that even if the third rebate printed, they would not honor it because they needed the original UPCs for all of them.
Now after the black friday sales and the dozens of rebates I have out, I am getting emails from rebate houses declining to give my money back to me for silly reasons like "date not on reciept". Although the date *IS* on the reciept. I guess what I am trying to say is that I am just tired of dealing with these deals and rebates since businesses are acting like crooks by not keeping their end of the bargain. I mean, if they really wanted to give us a rebate, why not just take it off at the register? I really hope a class action lawsuit or two is launched by consumers in the next few months over one of the rebate/bait-and-switch issues so business get back in line.
What the summary doesn't mention is that DNNA has been deactivating boxes that a) had stickers and papers that said they included service, b) were sold by retailers who assured customers they included service, c) DNNAs customer service said included service, even to people who asked about the $150 boxes, and d) often did show as having service when they were hooked up.
Then it took them a week before they put out clarifying press releases, and some stores continue to sell boxes with service-included stickers that DNNA won't likely honor. DNNA can blame the retailers all they want, but they're the ones deactivating boxes that contain their promises of included service. This as about as classic a bait-and-switch as there is.
Why is there always calls for class action suits? The leech lawyers get all the cash and the consumer gets a coupon for $20 off any product from the company they had the complaint against.
--- Ban humanity.
to not deal with them. Not that I care either
way, but geez, way to piss people off and turn
them towards your competition. Nice job Replay!
No subscription means your VCR becomes a paperweight--you don't truly own the equipment; you rent it (and modify it to operate without paying under the pain of the DMCA). It truly amazes me that people buy into this when there are alternatives that don't require becoming a lifetime corporate cash cow.
Yeah, try to go to Best Buy and get your full money out of it. I think that they will try to get $15 or some restocking fee out of you since it is "open." My experience with returning products, even when the manufactor said to has been less than pleasurable. Good luck....TiVo it is!
The views expressed are mine own and do not express the views of my employer.
Of course, on /. we are morally opposed to lawyers making any sort of reasonable profit, so we would never participate in such a suit. We just complain and cry over the unfairness of it all, and hope some diety magically fixes the problem.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
would be interested in what is obviously an illegal bait and switch
...you should buy a Tivo instead. Tivo produces a reliable product running on Linux, is hacker-friendly, and respects your privacy. And with over 1 million users (as of this month), they've passed the critical "consumer acceptance" threshhold generally used as a metric in the industry to assess the success of consumer electronics.
.@.
For further discussion, legal talk, and the whole history... here's the fatwallet thread.
a tid=24&threadid=254797
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.php?c
Davak
I was at my local CC store on 12/17 and they had a sign placed on top of the ReplayTV that explained exactly what was going on, and that there may be some contradictory advertisments still in circulation because of the rapidness of the change.
Those who bought from 11/17 to 12/16 appear to be the big winners... it look like their 110% price protection claims are going to be valid.
Maybe there were a few people who honestly thought they were getting 3 years of service, but for most people, they were just hoping to get through a loophole. RePlay changed their priceing plan from paying around $500 for the device and 3 years service, to $150 for the device with service additional. There were still some old stock units sold with the old packaging saying it including the pricing, but anyone who knows anything about DVR's could figure out what happened. The people who bought them were hoping RePlay wouldn't realize they had paid the lower price, and they got caught.
I don't think RePlay did anything wrong, except poor communication with their retailers in terms of getting them to explain that it didn't come with service. But if you don't want to pay for service, you can return it and you are back where you started from, nothing lost. As far as dishonesty, there were people on FW advocating calling up RePlay and lying about how much they paid for it or when they bought it in the hopes of getting free service. That isn't dishonest?
I bought a RePlay months ago, before this happened (a 5060) and love it. Great device, network ready out of the box, works great. My roomate has one too, and it's cool to be able to watch shows off each other's units.
I have blog like everyone else
That's a bummer that this has happened. What really blows me away is how people seems to forget that old adage.
Even more importantly, people seem to ignore TIME as a factor of cost. As in the time it takes to return a cheaper product that breaks. The extra amount of time it takes to setup products compared to others on the market, and another important time waster, waiting for products or ipod drivers to ship for linux when much better solutions may be out there now on other platforms.(Can you say Gimp vis - a vis, photoshop?)
I guess i look at these things as tools. I always try and find tools that are going to not only entertain me or empower me but also save me time and hassle. Because that is the most costly of all factors in ALL our lives.
In the last year i bought:
a) An ipod: not waiting for a org vobis play becuase frankly i don't have the ears of a dog to "tell" the difference.
b) itunes music store: best of breed dgital music store that is one click easy, and i know the artists are getting SOMETHING unlike kazaa.
c) a dual g5- damn fast.
d) OSX - best of breed combonation between the power of unix and open source and commerical apps.
( I already own a tivo and knew how much better it was then other solutions out there so i won't even bring that one up. Nor will i bring up the point of how much TIME and money of yours it would take to build an myth tv type solutions.Nor do i want a pc in my living room. I know i know put it somewhere else and drag a line in. No thanks.)
Did these cost me more? In some cases yes. But whatever the delta in price was i can GUARANTEE you that i have more than made up for it in increased productivity and not having to pull my hair out trying to get these things set up.
Moral of this story?
Sometimes paying MORE ends up costing you LESS...
Happy holidays...
Best of New Years...
I agree. The last ReplayTV I bought kept on freezing and crashing on me. In the middle of a recording, it would just sieze up and stop.
So I returned the thing and got a Tivo. I've been happy ever since.
I guess ReplayTV is the Microsoft of PVR units.
I am sad to see DNNA shooting themselves in the foot like this. I love my Replays. I have two of them, connected on a 100 Mbps switched network here at home. A show on one Replay can be streamed over the network to the other Replay. In other words, I can play back a show recorded on the bedroom Replay, from the living room Replay - while the living room Replay is recording a show off the air. Try that with a VCR. (I cannot tell if Tivo has that capapbility - I went to www.sony.com/tivo and got redirected to sonystyle.com - and a search on that web site for "tivo" came up empty.)
Anyway, back on topic, I am very disappointed that the management at DNNA is bound and determined to ruin the company. I understand as a company get worried about money, they focus on the pennies, and lose sight of the dollars. They need to reverse their attitude if they want to survive - they need to cut deals that will grow their userbase, not shrink it. But they don't appear to see that. It is sad.
"The most sensible request of government we make is not, "Do something!" But "Quit it!"
I also have a Replay TV. I'm on my 3rd unit, as the first two went kaput and had to be RMAd. Customer service during this time was a mixed bag, some reps were great, others did not appear to be native speakers of English and I could only understand every other word they spoke.
However, now that I've got a working box I'm pretty happy with it. Never had any problem with dl'ing the channel guide. And with its "sharing" feature and client software that others have written, you can send shows off to your PC for storage (or I think even burning to VCD, though I've never tried that).
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
You had a classic bad-product experience. I didn't, but I'd still recommend TiVo over ReplayTV.
I own one of each. I recently upgraded my 4-year-old TiVo to a 120GB HD (30 hours at top quality; 145 hours at low quality) and love it again. My old HD was one of the ones with seek-timing problems, so there were hiccups in video and audio output and the menus ran really slow (I maintain it was a timing-design flaw and the drives were fine; TiVo maintained it was bad drives, but they still sold repairs using newer drives with much tighter timing specs rather than just non-bad versions of the same drives...) Anyway. I got the new drive (dirt cheap from http://www.weaknees.com) with TiVo SW preloaded, had my machine booting within 10 minutes (no, really) of cracking the case, and didn't lose a nonce of my lifetime service. Zero video or audio glitches, and menus are 5-10X faster.
The TiVo Channel guide is far easier to use for surfing.
The TiVo will step single frames both forward and backward; for no good reason, the ReplayTV will not.
ReplayTV's scheduling and playback-menu software is slightly more featurous, and allows you to listen to the currently output program (live or recorded), unlike TiVo's, which requires you to escape to a silent menu system to browse or make changes. Both have backgrounded audio and video in live-schedule surfing. Otherwise, ReplayTV's menuing is a bit more tedious and fragile feeling than TiVo's.
My ReplayTV has automatic commercial-skip, but it can be confused by non-go-to-commercial fades in the program near the commercial segments. So you lose the first or last few seconds of some scenes. For shows like that, I revert to using the "skip-forward" button that skips 30 seconds and is slightly quicker to deal with commercials than the TiVo method of triple-FF and hit the play button when you see the show return.
Tivo's play button backs up to an estimate of the end of the commercials coming out of double and triple FF modes. And it's surprising how good it is at guessing your reaction time within a second, so the triple-FF method is effective.
ReplayTV sometimes locks up completely if it gets stuck dialing home. That might have been a break-in problem, as it hasn't happened since the first couple of days I owned it.
In general, TiVo seems to be the more mature, better designed system. And now that I've fixed my HW problems, it feels like I have a brand new one. If I'd done that before getting a ReplayTV, I'd have got a second TiVo instead. Mea guinea piggus.
Oh. And the TiVo with the new HD is absolutely silent. No more disk-whirr in the living room. No fan noise. Scary "is it on" silence. The dolts at ReplayTV used a fan with a stepper motor (I think) and it sounds like they actually use it to keep the fan speed low. Dumb. Rumbles all night long. Not noticeable during the daytime, but the human ear is capable of 6-7 orders of magnitude of sensitivity increase depending on ambient noise, and if you're susceptible to insomnia, it's a stressor. I'm thinking of ripping it out and cooling the thing with a bucket of ice.
One last thing: ReplayTVs can be networked to send recorded shows from unit to unit; I understand that's supposed to be available on newer TiVos. I have no opinion of its value.
Here is some kind of devkit, tho it appears to be for the Home Media Option end of things.
IANAProgrammer... But Tivo (series 1) runs linux on a PowerPC processor. I know enough about unix and linux to know that each flavor has a few "tweaks" that may not carry from flavor to flavor. So once you figure out those tweaks on Tivo's linux, then you should be able to develop using standard linux development tools. If you hit the Tivo Community Forum or the Deal Database forums you can find hundreds, if not thousands, of applications written to run on the Tivo.
And, under certian conditions, you can still use your Tivo without a subscription. It becomes exactly a digital VCR. It doesn't have any guide data or anything that makes it as useful as it is when subscribed.
Most Tivo loyalists don't like to talk about it, but there are ways to load 3rd party guide data onto your unsubb'ed Tivo.
So, if one is that hardcore, they can buy the Tivo, add a NIC, and get their own guide data loaded. All while never paying a monthly fee.
Paul Krugman in the NYT did a piece some weeks back on "stealth inflation" in which he described a whole host of companies adding on fees, surcharges and other cryptic babble, mostly in the hopes that most consumers would just knuckle under and not complain. This sounds suspisciously like that - except that if the retailers get saddled with a bunch of returns, the retailer will be the one who gets just a wee bit peeved. My bet is that they will be the retailers who won't take back the product because it has been opened or some other lame excuse (not through Circuit City or some other reputable retailer) so the consumers really will be stuck.
While I could see a class action brewing through this, my recommendation would be to seek the assistance of your state attorney general and utilize the consumer protections statutes available to counter this kind of bait and switch. Alternatively, you can also use Deceptive Trade Practices (DTPA in Texas) which allows successfull parties to recover treble (triple) damages from defendants. Keeps the class action attorneys from making the real money, and puts the justice in the pocket of the consumer. Plus, if the company gets hammered all across the country, the bad press will be more than any PR firm can get them out of - see if they are around next Christmas....
Lastly, if the attorney general won't prosecute (becuase they have been defanged by the Bush/Conservative/Victorian era deregulation crowd) you can always call your local TV consumer reporter and get them to make a stink with the retailer you bought it from....
Sort of makes me glad I don't have cable or anything else - just DVDs and Rabbit Ears!!
Merry Xmas!!
The BOX said 3 yrs free service included in the price of the box, a FLYER inside of the box said 3 yrs free service, the replay REPS said 3 yrs free service... etc etc, just please, RTFA before asshatting out your piehole!
"He who throws mud, loses ground." - proverb
Sony doesn't officially sell TiVos anymore... It's just www.tivo.com, and yes, you can stream shows from one TiVo to another, although it'll cost you at least $150 extra ($99 for the Home Media Option on the first TiVo, $49 on each additional TiVo). You also get the ability to play MP3s and view JPEGs with the HMO, which may or may not be an exciting feature.
My English teacher once told me that two positives don't make a negative. Two words for her: Yeah, right.
It seems that loading any kind of guide data without a sub is a "forbidden topic" on the TiVo forums (which is understandable--they're one TiVo C&D letter from oblivion at any time), so it's interesting to see that it can be legally (or at least ethically--not grabbing TiVo's guide data without paying.
Thanks for the interesting link and non-flaming reply :). Merry Christmas!
Is there such a thing as a TiVo with a built in channel decoder for Bresnan Digital Cable? I'd buy just about anything to be able to watch one channel and record another on my digital cable.
now THIS is worth a class action lawsuit.
that many defective products and the bait & switch...this is much more worthy of a Class action than the iPod battery NON-ISSUE.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Price dropps are frequently schedueled in advance, sometimes many months in advance to coincide with new products, and of course attractive promotions to deplete old inventories.
Someone who just got their MBA, and probably would be better put to use as filler in some construction project entered the wrong date. Who knows where? With price matching in consumer electronics everyone could well eventually pick up the error, which I've actually seen bounce through chains across many weeks.
Part of the way the manufacturer probably managed this drop in price, wasn't to simply write off the loss, but change the terms. To that end they undoubtably produced merchandising kits, and bought some advertising clearly indicating the old terms were not valid, and what the new terms were.
So Replay, however crappy their product might be, is right. If you bought it at the old expensive price it comes with an additional two years, that's what the retailer paid them for, if you bought it at the new low price, the retailer only paid them for one year. Any bitching you have should be saved for the retailer. And while you're bitching just remember, this complex fast interlocked reliable system is what allowed for the speedy and catastrophic replication of probably ONE MISTAKE. If you want to crawl up their ass instead of being a human being, fine, but remember the people you're talking too aren't the ones that made the booboo, they're unable to exact your retribution on those who were, who might well be enjoying a performance bonus, and most people I know make at least one mistake a day.
I am on my THIRD ReplayTV 5080...the first one died within a month, then the replacement died! What's worse is that it took a couple of months for ReplayTV to activate the first replacement unit...I had purchased a lifetime activation and they too forever to switch the activation over from the old unit to the new unit. Things went much smoother for the second replacement...although the fact that I've had THREE of these damn machines is pretty sad.
Once you get past that, the ReplayTV itself is FAR superior to Tivo. Automatic Commercial Skip actually works 95% of the time, and using DV Archive, I am able to download any recorded show over my home network to my mac to burn to DVD. It's just awesome. Their interface is far superior as well...I like how you can organize the shows by category...and they are not displayed by date recorded. That's one thing I HATE about the Tivo...you have to scroll around looking for shows that you recorded a while ago. With ReplayTV, you can find it instantly. Plus you have a buttont to skip 30-seconds without a hack, unlike Tivo series I...and as far as I know Series 2 machines can't do this. Actually, you can fast forward as far as you'd like by hitting a number first and the the skip button. It's little things like that that make the difference to me.
Tivo is the AOL of PVR's, imho. ReplayTV decided not to bend-over for the networks, which cost them money in legal fees...which definitely hurt them. The only thing Tivo is better at is marketing.
There is no gravity...the earth just sucks.
Speaking of quantity discounts, this is one of the other mistakes SonicBlue made, and is perpetuated by DNNA. There are no quantity discounts for owning multiple Replays. Ditto signing up a friend - if I got a discount (or service extension) by signing up a friend, then that would help grow DNNA's business. But DNNA is so fearful of losing even one dollar to a discount, that they can't see how badly they are running their business.
"The most sensible request of government we make is not, "Do something!" But "Quit it!"
I haven't tried to use rebates for over 5 years now. While are not 100% rip offs, I got burned by enough that were that I decided not to gamble any more and base my purchasing decisions on up-front cost only.
I mean, I still remember the CDR rebate from forever ago where they kept saying they never receive the rebate info so I kept resubmitting copies of the receipt and rebate tag ( since I had sent the originals off the first time, all I had were copies ) until it was past the rebate expiration date. At which time I was told it was too late to cash in on the rebate. Is that lame or what?
Now I shop mostly online and only at sites I have successfully used in the past or I know someone who purchased from them with no problems. Brick and mortar shops are good too, but I totally ignore rebate offers.
Oh, another thing about rebates is that ( I have heard ) pretty much make you jump through hoops to in order to redeem them. Why subject yourself to all that hassle instead of just paying a lower price up front and getting on with your life?
I can't afford a sig!
But as was mentioned in other places, my time is worth something to me. Look at it this way, if I want to take a trip somewhere I can take Greyhound for $15, or I can take a plane flight for $400. But it will take a day of my time to get there on Greyhound, and a couple hours on a plane. So, I have to miss a day of work to take the bus.
Well, I make more than $385 per work day, so it actually costs me MORE to take the bus than a plane.
You can apply this same principle to other things, open source PVRs amongst them. I just don't want to screw with it. I essentially pay TiVo to maintain my PVR for me because I don't want to do it.
I find the people who have the most trouble understanding why someone would pay for something are young people. They have no money and a lot of time, as opposed to lots of money and no time. So, they'll do things like spend 2 days downloading a movie in order to save $15.
The RIAA and SPA are fools for not understanding that there are things that college people simply won't pony up the dough for (like Photoshop) at full price. On the other hand, to a graphics arts professional, $500 for Photoshop is nothing. Due to the better features and useability of it, they''ll make the $500 back on a single contract job.
Anyway, perhaps now you can see why the right solution for you isn't necessarily the right solution for everyone.
As to being a lifetime corporate cash cow, I don't like to buy anything on subscription. Some things (like cell phones or cable) are only available monthly. But for the most part, anything I can pay one time for I will do so on. That's why I bought the lifetime TiVo option for $250 (I think). Since I'm a DirecTiVo customer, I get lifetime service on as many TiVos as I have, not a single unit. So, I also share your annoyance at becoming a lifetime cash cow. But I also know that some things are worth it if you can't get it any other way.
Perhaps some day in the future, MythTV or whatever will be good enough that paying for TiVo makes no sense to me, even at a few dollars a month. I predict that for me that day is a long time off since I use DirecTiVo and I don't expect MythTV to be able to legally or reliably operate directly on DirecTV streams like my DirectTiVo can.
No, businesses get rich by selling consumers things for more than they pay for them. Period. Businesses do not make money by selling someone a $150 hard drive for $40, they go out of business.
You can now get Delivery Confirmation for 1st Class Mail from the USPS. I think it cost 0.45 per letter.
That makes it a little harder for them to claim they didn't get it.
One more thing.
Changing channels on the TiVo is not as fast as on a TV, but it's not terrifically slow (300-800 ms).
On ReplayTV, changing the channel is a 1-5 second ordeal. The only efficient browsing method is to bring up the single-channel display overlay and arrow to the next channel that way. You can use the channel guide, but it's a typical horizontal cable-box type grid, and as I said I don't like it nearly as much as TiVo's two-column system.
Neither brand has a clue about text entry for search boxes, though...I hate those 4x12 letter panels...
Nor about interrupt-driven remote control handlers...they must be polling or why is it so slow and spotty with the response...probably doing it to avoid priority inversion over the video feeds...coulda buffered the remote input then...next time someone builds one of these things, hire an embedded programmer...
Number of sites around the web are still selling Replay's with 3 years service. My advice - buy one + if Replay don't live up to their deal take them to small claims court. You'll easily win + there are no lawyer fees. (Actually Replay won't even show up for the case so it'll take all of 30 seconds for you to get the judgement). How to collect: Invoice them with the court documents or (if you want to be really nasty) stick a collection agency on them -- it'll cost you anything up to 50% of the court award, but the satisfaction will be pure bliss. Enjoy!
Rich people are eccentric. Poor people are strange. Me, I'd be happy with odd.
I've had both Replay TV's and Tivo's. Having used both, I sold my Tivo and have only Replay TV's. This is a horrible marketing mess Replay has made for themselves, but it doesn't change my opinion of the great devices they make.
I've recommended Replay to my friends, most of whom now have one, I've bought them for family members. None of us have ever had any technical issues with any of them. However, a certain proportion of any electronic device is going to fail, I know of people with failed Tivo's and most any other electronic brand.
As for the utter stupidity of this pricing change, it just shows that Dennon (Replay's owner) marketing people have absolutely no clue regarding the consumer electronics channel. Quite obviously all of their retailers didn't screw this up at the same time. This is definitely Dennon's fault. They almost certainly sent out misleading or faulty information to their retail supply chain. This is a boondoggle of tremendous proportions.
Why didn't they just eat the fees and give everyone a lifetime supplied Replay for the discount price of $150? Doing some rough math, if they had 20,000 units in the retail channel (a fair guess), it would have cost the struggling Replay unit a $6 million dollar charge. The marketing manager should be fired either way, but taking a 6 million dollar charge is not the sort of thing tiny electronics companies (compared to Sony, Panasonic, etc.) can afford to do.
However, I have very little sympathy for the initial poster or the other whiners in this thread. Sure, I enjoy the "killer deal" as much as anyone, I'm a charter member of Fatwallet. But I don't whine when these deals don't pan out. This is just like the hundreds of other "killer deals" posted on Fatwallet each year, Some of them pan out, most of them don't. Everyone who bought this in reading about in on a "Hot Deals" site, knew it was a too-good-to-be-true deal, and should just return the unit, get all of their money back and move along to the next one.
All that aside, just because Replay has some complete idiots making their marketing decisions doesn't mean their boxes are bad or the company is evil. The boxes work wonderfully and do amazing things, I'd take one over a Tivo any day of the week. I'd also take a Replay over those clunky, expensive roll-your-own PVR's. Replay TV's are just good, solid devices that work out of the box.
My oldest Replay has been running 24/7 for over 4 years without a single problem, ever.
As much as i hate being part of a 'sue-happy' society, sometimes the legal system is needed to keep companies that pull that sort of crap in check.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Follow these steps and your tivo's "->|" button becomes 30 second skip:
Select
Play
Select
3
0
Select
It will at least get rid of this source of annoyance.
P.S. Tivo Rocks!
---- It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it's told.
A few notes:
You have to do it fast enough, it's best to do it on a prerecorded program so it doesn't change the channel, and you should hear three dings (thumbs-up sounds) when you're done.
Just thought I'd throw that in there. And yes, TiVo does rock.
My English teacher once told me that two positives don't make a negative. Two words for her: Yeah, right.
Damn, do you work for the company?
Yup, if someone has a different view then you, they must be an evil corporate troll.
If you look through my recent posts, you'll also find ones where I stick up for Apple and Packet8. I must be rich, what with all these companies I work for.
I have blog like everyone else
Sure they will accept returns, that way it doesn't become a legal issue.
A good reason why they (and maybe other manufactorers) did this is to boost this years financial numbers.
The units are sold in December this year and will not be returned until January next year. (its not going to be earlier since they were given as gifts and no store is going to accept returns until the new year)
This year they moved 1000 more units -> bean counter happy, people get bonuses. So what if they get 700 units returned, they have until December next year to make up for it.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Responsability for correcting the fault lies with he who makes it, in this case the retailers.
The price was dropped by large numbers of stores in at least three national B&M chains as well as several online stores. A little Occam's Razor exercise: What's more likely, that DNNA gave clear directions and a half-dozen large retailers all made the same mistake, or that DNNA put out a muddy, ambiguous message? Keep in mind that DNNA is a company that thinks making these kind of changes right before Christmas was a dandy idea. There are also numerous accounts of people being told by DNNA that $150 units included service, so DNNA was at least as confused about what was going on as the retailers were.
Even if it is the retailers fault, the problem should be worked out between DNNA and the retailers. Customers did not create this mess, but DNNA is the one "fixing" it by taking something their customers were told they had paid for. When a company sells something to you for a mistakenly low price they're not allowed to correct their mistake after the fact by coming to your house, taking whatever they sold you and tossing a refund on the table. It should be no different with electronic services.
What software do you use to burn shows to DVD after you have grabbed them with DVArchive? I have a Mac, but have not been able to figure out how to do this. Every time I have seen instructions, they want you to use about 20 different programs to demux, convert video and audio, and remux, and even then I can't get a burnable video file.
I've had one of these things for a long time, and never had the problems described.
I will say, though, that it was one of the original units, and not one of the units since ReplayTV was taken over after going into bankruptcy earlier this year.
When they went into bankruptcy, I bought a TiVo the same day. I now have both, and they both work great.
it's pretty cool.
"Tivo"
"Tivo" (gets to menu)
Play
Select
Play
Select
3
0
Select
---- It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it's told.
ReplayTV is hardly a small company. It is owned by DNAA, the company which ownes Denon and Marantz (think (relatively) high end audio equipment)
I've had both Replay TV's and Tivo's. Having used both, I sold my Tivo and have only Replay TV's.
I've recommended Replay to my friends, most of whom now have one, I've bought them for family members. None of us have ever had any technical issues with any of them.
The boxes work wonderfully and do amazing things, I'd take one over a Tivo any day of the week. I'd also take a Replay over those clunky, expensive roll-your-own PVR's. Replay TV's are just good, solid devices that work out of the box.
My oldest Replay has been running 24/7 for over 4 years without a single problem, ever.
I have a sudden urge to buy my extended family Replays and burn every Tivo in sight. Alas I have a tummy ache from all the astroturf I've eaten, another day perhaps.
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
Installable pre configured Knoppix based Myth TV solution, ready to roll.
Has to be installed, but get a WinTV-Go, add a HD to a decent box, add TV-out vid card or VGA converter (seems to be the preferred method, TV out usually looks like hell) and it looks like you are ready to roll.
Disclaimer--- DLed ISO last night, made sure it booted etc, building "fresh" box now.
Just posting FYI, as I can actually be "on topic" for a change.
You haven't used a TiVo in a while, or if you have, it's been a Series 1. In the latest TiVo OS, you can have all episodes of a show show up in a folder, so all Simpsons episodes are categorized under one "Simpsons" folder. You can also change sorting options, so you can sort by date recorded or by name.
Automatic Commercial Skip... meh. DVArchive... I admit it would be nice to have something that simple, but I can hack my Series 1 TiVo and add show recording and so much more, so I'm not concerned about it. The 30-second skip isn't really a hack, it's more like a cheat code, and I'm pretty sure that Series 2 does have it.
One thing about ReplayTV I'm unsure of.. On a TiVo you have a complete list of all your Season Passes (shows you want every episode of) and Wishlists (wildcard searches that let you search by name, actor, director, etc.), and can put them in a list according to their priority. You can also go through the entire list of shows it will record (in a list format, not on the TV guide) and see what it will record, as well as get a list of what it won't (and didn't) record and why. If at any point you see something that's not to your taste, you can cancel/enable recording and the TiVo automatically re-adjusts all the recordings. What conflict resolution methods does ReplayTV have? I've heard they're inferior, but I haven't had it explained to me very well.
My English teacher once told me that two positives don't make a negative. Two words for her: Yeah, right.
Join 'em. Become a lawyer and then you too can make millions on class action lawsuits!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Actually, a bait and switch involves advertizing Item A at price X (bait), then when customers come in looking for A @ X, you tell them sorry, your out of A (if you had any to begin with!), but you'd be happy to sell them Item B at Price Y.. (switch).
Often Item A is better then item B and price Y is higher then price X.
In this case, the removal of service from the service + Unit bundle was annouced by marketing / advertizing before the packaging ( boxes and so on ) and retailers ( CC, Bestbuy etc ) where informed of the change.
While I agree that DNNA apear to have acted stupidly, are being irritating, and are alienating customers, it isn't nessisarilly a criminal action. Face it, people make mistakes and some are just more agravating then other mistakes.
Alot of companies when making this change, will change the model numbers, packaging, advertizing and so on so that they can trasition to the hardware-only and subscription service or keep both (as TiVo does) and sell lifetime subscriptions as well as monthly service.
Coldnight
P.S. I love my TiVo and could care less if replay shot itself in the foot like this repeatedly.
I make my recommendations, and people ignore them. Here's the list, ignore it at your peril:
Buy Don't buy
Honda Civic Chevy Cavalier
Nikon Minolta
Thinkpad Toshiba
Thinkpad Sony VAIO
Satellite TV Cable
separate parts E-Machine
Linux Windows
Timex Rolex
and finally
TiVo Replay
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
I've been happy for the most part with the two ReplayTV units that I own (both purchased used off of eBay.) The biggest problem I ran into for both units was that the hard drives had errors on them that would glitch the OS and crash the player if you recorded too much material. I was extremely pissed after the first couple of times that this happened, since the player reset itself after the last time - erasing all my existing recordings. Another unit freezed up completely and would no longer boot. Both problems were easily solved by taking the cover off, and replacing the hard drive - I haven't had any problems since (and I got Maxtor to replace both of the bad drives under warranty). Don't forget to use the "secret menu" - 243+replayzones to reset the unit to factory defaults after you're done (yes, you'll lose your shows.)
The best feature of the ReplayTV 4k and 5k units (aside from commercial skip, which only works intermittently these days) is the built-in 10/100 ethernet. I can run DVArchive on my win2K box, export all of my shows (Simpsons, Mr. Bean, Stargate SG-1) to my hard drive, edit them with VirtualDub, and burn em to VCD with TMPEnc. ReplayTVs record shows in MPEG2, at D1(?) resolution - 720x480 at high and medium quality, I think low quality is half D1 - I'm not sure, since I never record anything at low quality. High quality shows are recorded with 48khz audio, requiring downsampling before you reencode to VCD.
Bottom line, if you're comfortable disassembling consumer electronics and re-imaging hard drives using the ReplayTV Upgrade patch, you should be fine. Many "dead" units can be brought back to life by re-imaging the hard drive - the premise being that somehow the on-board OS got corrupted. For privacy advocates, buy a used 40xx unit (as I did), as these are pre-activated, so you don't have to provide any information. If you're not comfortable messing around with the innards of a $400+ machine, and taking the risk of frying both it, and your computer (if you need to re-image, you have to hook up the replacement drive to your computer), then don't get a ReplayTV.
If you're a super-uber geek, then you can try putting together a MythTV box (next on my list of stuff to do, after I build a MAME cabinet - I think I'll put the MythTV box into the MAME cabinet...)
Last tip - BACK UP YOUR REPLAYTV BOX. If ever you need a disk image for your box, and ReplayTV goes under, you'll be SOL unless you've got a current, clean (stable) backup.
Hm, I just hit pause on the DVD and it starts right back up where it left off. You're not still watching that quaint old broadcast or cable stuff by any chance? Until TiVO can author its own shows, I don't think even it could make that steaming pile of reality shows and infomercials watchable.
Nobody would be going through this trouble if they weren't trying to get a "steal" of a deal. Offering 3 years of service for free on a cheap machine is a business model that won't work. It sounds like a tactic to just empty the inventory and make some quick cash, ala SCO and its "pump-and-dump" strategy with the markets. Either that or the new owners of Replay thought it would be an easy way to drive up their installed user base to ensure retailers would still carry the product. As it stands, TiVo has 1 million subscribers (I'm not certain if that is counting the DirecTiVos in that number) and Replay has maybe 100,000 + at best after being on the market for four years and buried two previous companies. TiVo has beaten Microsoft's UltimateTV. As it stands, TiVo's only competitor is the inferior DishPlayer PVR which has a 1 million user base because Dish Network was giving away the units as part of their package. 2004 will bring the HD based TiVos from DirecTV. So please, for those Slashdotters who aren't planning on building their own PVRs based upon MythTV, please spread the word that TiVo is the name of the PVR game.
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
For older ReplayTVs running version 4.x software or lower, the conflict resolution is almost nil. Guaranteed shows have priority over non-guaranteed shows (the unit will ask if you try and schedule two guaranteed shows in the same timeslot.) Non-guaranteed shows are ranked in order of age - the first show you schedule for a timeslot will alway override any other non-guaranteed show you schedule afterwards, and the unit WILL NOT TELL YOU IF THERE IS A CONFLICT BETWEEN NON-GUARANTEED SHOWS.
The newer ReplayTVs running 5.x software have a hidden conflict resolution function, where you can assign a numerical priority. I haven't used it, so I don't know how well it works.
Basically, TiVos are a LOT more intelligent about what to record and when (unless you specify a "channel" based on the name, the until will NOT automatically shift recording times if the show is rescheduled either temporarily or permanently.) For ReplayTV units, either have a big hard drive, or ALWAYS record guaranteed if you want to be notified of conflicts.
I wish I could say my experiences matched your own, but in my case, I miss my ReplayTV dearly. I had a 4050 (that was the second one I owned) and I left that with my old roomate when Imoved, my new roommate has a DirecTivo and I ABHORE the thing. There is a HUGE increase in clipped shows. And I KNOW it is TiVo's fault because I've sat and watched as the shows come on right on time, and TiVo misses the beggining or starts early and ends late. Soooo annoying to miss the last 5 minutes of a bunch of your favorite shows, kinda ruins the point of recording it if you have to catch replays and watch them live to be sure stupid TiVo doesnt mess it up. Anyway, I LOVED commercial advance, and never had an OUNCE of trouble with the broadband connection on the 4050 I had. Matter of fact, I never had a bit of problem with it period. I do think this situation is a bit screwed and if theres stickers on the box saying "free for 3 yrs" they should be forced to live up to that.
"The saddest words of mice and men, are not those which were, but should have been."
I took it home and set it up right away and I like it much better than the Tivo. It has a lot of extra features that would cost more in a Tivo like built in ethernet and sharing among units ($99 fee on a Tivo). After playing with it for about an hour, I liked it so much I went back and bought another one to give as a present.
So now I hear that my unit which has been working fine will continue to work but the one that has been sitting under the tree will not unless I fork over some more money. Sure they can give a refund but it still makes me look bad that my gift needs to be returned.
I'm going to sit on it until the last day to do returns because Replay still has time to do the right thing.
I do like my Replay but I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth over this.
Bingo
You can just buy a TiVo and burn with the built-in DVD burner.
Albuquerque PC
As for what Replay is doing with their "free" offer, it appears to violate the Federal Trade Commission Guidelines for use of the word "Free". These are quite specific.
when the purchaser is told that an article is ``Free'' to him if another article is purchased, the word ``Free'' indicates that he is paying nothing for that article and no more than the regular price for the other. Thus, a purchaser has a right to believe that the merchant will not directly and immediately recover, in whole or in part, the cost of the free merchandise or service by marking up the price of the article which must be purchased, by the substitution of inferior merchandise or service, or otherwise.
That's clear enough. It's binding on the supplier as well as the retailer; the supplier can't pass the buck here.
California also requires this: (Business and Professions Code 17509).
-
Any advertisement, including any advertisement over the
Internet, soliciting the purchase or lease of a product or service,
or any combination thereof, that requires, as a condition of sale,
the purchase or lease of a different product or service, or any
combination thereof, shall conspicuously disclose in the
advertisement the price of all those products or services.
That's clear enough.One last thing.
I just reread my post, and it's got a bug.
>The TiVo will step single frames both forward and backward; for no good reason, the ReplayTV will not.
Should end "will not step single frames backward." Replay does let you step forward, but if you want to go back, you have to exit pause and use rewind. Hardly good.
40-hour Model RTV5504: $150
Monthly Fee: $466 (12.95 * 12 *3)
OR
Lifetime Service: $299
I don't see the need for class action status with millions in lawyers fees. As you said its a fairly cut and dry contract issue. Replay owes either $616 or $449 (Plus taxes and misc fees?) multiplied by all the people who bought one @ that price. This, I think, would put a hurtin' on their financials.
This could all be settled in small claims court. The Judge would give you your money (or compel performance?) and stick Replay with court costs and lawyers fees. The odds are that Reply won't even send a representative to court and you'll win by default. You might have to sue them again to collect, but thats life. I can't say i know this for sure, but would a collection agency take a smaller cut than a flock of trained lawyers? Especially if all those potential class action-ees went to small claims court and then to the same collection agency? Like getting a group discount. Right?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
IHNJH, IJLS: YAASA. STFU.
I know the policy sucks. Personally I think that they should be sued ( and they probably will). However, I would expect that at least the /. crowd to be using video capture cards on their computers. That's what I use. Who needs to pay for service when you have software that does the same thing for free. I know I don't have to pay for a subscription. Upgrades to storage benefit my whole machine. I also get to choose what codec is used to encode my captures. So why limit yourself to stuff tivo and replaytv give you when you can hand select the parts that go into your comp?
No, it's them refusing to honor the deal explicitly written on the box and the papers inside! That's a little thing called fraud - no if's and's or but's.
Do you really expect the average consumer who buys it at a store to even know the price was cheaper than it should be? Not everyone's an expert on tivo's past history, and to people used to buying $50 VCR it doesn't sound like a "too good to be true" deal.
well, if you miss a punchline..
Aww, common, some shows are bad and some are good - you just have to find something you like. By the way you may want to record pay-per-view movies or or movies which were not issued on DVD. And almost forgot - it's great for sports.
I (and about 5 other people I go to college with) ordered Dell Axim's when we saw the price at $79.
I was hoping and hoping it would ship before they realized their mistake (and later I was wishing I'd checked overnight delivery instead of standard shipping). Of course... no deal... and the two e-mails I got just referenced that it says on their website that Dell is not responsible for typos.
I was thinking how nice it would be to check e-mail around campus using the built-in wireless.
Unlike DVDs (or even VHS tapes), I don't have to go out of my way to acquire stuff to watch. Some friends of mine said that Absolutely Fabulous is really funny. I've never seen it, but I'll be happy to give it a shot. Instead of having to make a trip to Blockbuster (or whatever) (and payng more than I already do for basic cable), I tell the Replay to record it whenever it comes on. Someday in the future, the show will have been delivered. For the price of the channel guide, I get a limited selection of content delivered to me, without having to mess with media and late charges.
And of course, with automatic commercial skip, my Replays make network delivered material significantly more palatable.
Obviously, to each his own. But it works for me.
What will be bad, is that if DNNA blows it, businesss-wise, I have no guarentee that the channel guide will remain in production. They may be able to sell that portion of the business to someone else - they may not be able to do so....
"The most sensible request of government we make is not, "Do something!" But "Quit it!"
What happens if you want to go back and change the way two guaranteed season-pass type things react to each other (e.g., I decide that CSI is less important then ER and drop it down the Season Pass List?) Is there any easy way to do that?
:)
Not that I do that often, but once every three months or so I'll go through and make sure that the Season Pass list is in accordance with the priorities of me and my family... less strife that way.
My English teacher once told me that two positives don't make a negative. Two words for her: Yeah, right.
Beyond the HMO discount, neither does TiVo (unless you count the DirecTiVo units, where there's a flat fee of $5/mo for all TiVo receivers in your household.) That is another pet peeve of mine - if you have multiple TiVos (which they encourage - the remotes have a switch for DVR 1 and DVR 2) you're paying $13/mo per TiVo or $300 for a lifetime for each. That significantly increases the costs, and currently makes it rather impractical to own more then one DVR (unless you have money coming out the wazoo).
My English teacher once told me that two positives don't make a negative. Two words for her: Yeah, right.
Which is why the fine print says they aren't responsible for pricing mistakes.
And yes I do expect the average customer when shopping for an item that runs 300, 400, or more normally to realize that its too good to be true when the price is so low that its crazy.
The people that bought it knew very well that it was too good to be true and when it turned out that it was they bitch about it. Everyone wants a free ride (or close to it) and when they realize that they actually have to pay for something they complain and call it not fair.
All that means is they can decide not to sell it to you for the listed price if it was a mistake. They can't suddenly decide not to honor part of the agreement one they have sold it. That's not legal. Otherwise vendors could make all kind of wild promises and then renege.
hmm. . .
you've apparantly never heard of the term "markup" I guess. . . The fact is, the store got that hard drive for closer to $40 than $150.
Besides, stores sell some stuff at a loss to draw people in and buy more stuff. . . door crashers and the such.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
...so what are the best value (as opposed to cheapest) for money capture cards and encoding software? Presume output will be SVCD encoded.
This is the worst consumer electronics product that I have ever bought.
That may be true, but it is the best consumer electronics product that I have ever bought. Good UI, skips commercials automagically, and I can copy the shows to my computer -- it's almost perfect and I vastly prefer it to Tivo.
I don't know the details of the current pricing snafu but I wanted to post a view from the other camp. ReplayTV is great.
Thanks for the weaknees.com link. I am considering getting a TiVo from my Christmas loot and am looking at the site now.
Eat recycled food - it's good for the environment, and OK for you.
"The fact is, the store got that hard drive for closer to $40 than $150." they MIGHT have a 20% markup. unless its a captuerd market, like the only place to biy them within 50 miles. with the internet, there are vary few markets like that anymore.
Don't forget, Christmas is coming, and I check my list twice!
A post by anyone claiming to never make mistakes will inevitably contain one or more mistakes.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
If you own a ReplayTV, you know the killer feature for it is DVArchive. (sourceforge site)
However, I'm rather concerned about it. The website, although hosted on sourceforge offers no source code and repeated attempts to contact the author have been ignored. He's allegedly planning a rewrite of some kind, which is fine, I just want the source for the older version.
Is anyone a developer for DVArchive or have access to the source? This is not at all an insult to DVArchive or its developers, it's a great program, but in the spirit of its license, I'd really like to see the source code.
http://www.talknerdy.org
It's also worth noting that some of the new TiVo units are coming with "TiVo Basic." While this option doesn't provide the full functionality of TiVo (season passes, wish lists, etc.) and only has a three-day program guide, it's a nice deal for those who want to upgrade from their VCR while avoiding extra fees.
...that can't even get my name OR address right on the mailing labels for 15 years??!!.. no further questions , Your Honor..
...and he grinned, like a fox eating shit out of a wire brush.
To answer your comments, one by one: .... is a business model that won't work". What the offer means to the business bottom line is irrelevant to the customer. If the supplier advertises it, the supplier must be prepared to deliver it. Besides you can't know this "won't work" unless you're an employee for the company making the offer. HMMMMM????? ... or drive up the installed user base" You may be right. That doesn't make it OK to lie to the customers. ....please spread the word that TiVo ...." Why?
1: "trying to get a steal of a deal". The customers are NOT trying to steal. They want what was prominently advertised in more than one place, from supplier and retailer.
2: "Offering 3 years of free service
3: "It sounds like a tactic to just empty the inventory
4: Stuff about Replay's competition: Irrelevant.
5: "For those slashdotters
Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
I am curious why someone making an interesting post such as yourself feels it necessary to have such a trollish link in your .sig. I was interested when I noticed the domain for your link, wondering what Sony would have to do with dating, when I noticed the redirect link.
NOBODY CLICK ON THIS LINK. It opens up a swarm of scat-porn popups.
The redirect link itself is a redirect. The link his .sig goes to is (http://www.sony.net/Redirect/g04_GS/http://techge ek.notlong.com/) which further redirects to another page that starts the popup hell.
What an immature individual.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Generally, you can only collect your actual damages*, which presumably you can collect just by returning the product (with no restocking fee or shipping costs). In practice, if you wanted to sue, you might have to sue the retailer, since the only direct dealing you had was with the retailer. *Certain states may have more of a pro-consumer bias that allows you to choose whether you want your money back, or to compel them to provide the service that you bought.
It truly amazes me that people buy into this when there are alternatives that don't require becoming a lifetime corporate cash cow.
Perhaps I can make the decision to purchase one of these devices slightly less amazing to you. I, like you, enjoy technology & the benefits that it affords us. I am currently using my second ReplayTV unit. I bought the first one a few years ago & I upgraded once they added the Ethernet port. The first replay unit I bought was $250 more than a comparable TiVo unit, but I did not need to purchase a subscription. ReplayTV say which way the wind was blowing & altered there pricing to match the TiVo's. The general public only sees the initial price & TiVo appeared much cheaper. I bought the second replay unit & a lifetime subscription at the same time. I knew in the long run that the lifetime would be cheaper than a monthly subscription.
You argue that losing my subscription causes my DVR becomes a paperweight. Well I understand that everything will eventually need to be replaced, tech items especially. I bought me DVR to provide a service, & I would have to say that I am very happy with the service it provides. I brought it hoe from the store, I took it out of the box, I plug it in, & it just WORKS. Any patches that are required are automatically applied. I'm sure I could find the hardware lying around my house to setup a machine to do what you suggest. I'm sure that, in time, I could get the OS & application running properly. To do what? Watch television? To me it isn't worth the time, money, & heartache to get a homegrown DVR running?
The last time you wanted a new computer did you grab a fistful of ICs & a soldering iron? No, you drove down to the computer store & bought one. Did some corporation profit from your action? Yes, several did in fact. Like any transaction, it was an exchange of value. They traded money for raw materials & employee's time to produce a product. You then traded your money in exchange for the product they produced. You received your money when you provided a service for your employer. It's all just a circle of exchanging cash.
For the cash I receive, I support quite a few computers & other electronic devices. When I come home, I do not even want to entertain the possibility of "supporting" a finicky DVR. I feel my time is far too valuable to consider that. You may be in a period of your life that is time-rich & cash-poor, or you may simply enjoy working on these projects more than I do. Regardless of the case, feel free to do as you wish. For myself, the money spent on this service is money well spent.
But if you are like me, you will revert really quickly. Until I changed what the ->| button did (normally goes to the end of the show), I never noticed how often I used it.
I have a ReplyTV and am plugged into a group of other users. By and large, the bad experience reported above is anomalous -- I am extremely happy with my unit and my service.
I think the ability to share programs over a net connection is a really key advantage over Tivo and can't be dismissed by vaporware (commercial skip is/was cool too). ReplayTV and Tivo are *both* great technologies and they have slightly complementary advantages. I like ReplayTV better, but it seems to be a religious issue.
I can't comment on the newer models, but I've been enormously happy with ours! We've had it...I guess about 1.5-2 years, no problems at all.
Channel guide updating has never failed for me (you sure you have settings right??)..I have a wireless hookup (a dlink product) too.
Commercial skip (not in newer versions) is godly, and far and away the best feature!
Also, I love the fact that I can very, very easily download shows from the ReplayTV to my PC.
--Also, I don't know, but I've had very good experiences with their customer service reps. They helped to optimize control of my digital cable box when it was a little slow, and the wait wasn't long, and the people helpful. admittedly, never had any more in depth problems, or any payment issues, but good service from what I've seen.
Having said all this, I'm not sure I would buy one without commercial skip...
Please mod the parent post up. You bring up a very interesting point, although it may be a bit off-topic. Is it a requirement of Sourceforge projects to be open-source if they are hosted by sf.net? Yes, sf.net project implies that they are open-source, but is it mandatory for hosting? I looked through DVArchive's docs and no mention of whether or not it's an open-source project. There is full license document, and it says it's "free" software. But free software doesn't mean open-source. I guess I got caught up in the usefulness of the program that I just didn't care whether or not it was open-source. If you happen to be a stickler to the "spirit of the law" then perhaps we have to revert back to using the commandline software ReplayPC.
Linux at home
i very disappointed... i went to circuit city the other day and saw the deal for 149 and didnt buy it because i didnt have the cash.. then i went back the next day to 4 stores the last store posted a notice that the 40 hour replay did not include service... but the 80 hour did... so i didnt want the 80 hour but i knew that it was my only choice... I bought two of them... both as presents... iv always wanted one but i couldnt afford one myself... so for christmas i bought my father his replay tv.. and after i set it all up i find out that they will not honor my purchase.. i now have two replay tv's sitting on my floor... my dads xmas present and my friends xmas present... im sopposed to see my friend tommorrow to exchange gifts and i have no time to replace it... i dont feel right giving him a unit with a 300 dollar price tag... the reason i bought it was for the free service... i could afford to pay for something once not forever... so if there is a class action law suit i want in... replay tv ruined my christmas... and im so pissed off becuase tommorrow i have to deal with my friend and tell him that i dont have a present for him.. because replay messed me over... the worst part is i think my friend bought me one.. because after i saw the deal i told him about it and i think he went and purchased one for me because he knows iv wanted one for year just couldnt afford it for myself.. sucky thing is i cant afford to pay for service since im a collage student... please email me if your starting a class action suit because i have two of these and i think im getting a third... replay you ruined my xmas you ruined my dads christmas you ruined my friends present... you all suck... please email me if you know of a class action suit.. virgill41@HOTMAIL.COM
It doesn't matter if some marketing droid made a mistake, the company is still responsible for that mistake.
YAAC wrote:
>HAYLMAYGFCM (How About You Lick My Anus You Gay Faggot Cock Monkey)
IYHTEI, IW.
Yeah. I just tried that 30-second mod. I kind of like it for skipping commercials. But I sure do miss the way the button used to work.
Why don't the monkeys at TiVo just issue remotes with both buttons?
Make them some shekels, it would.
It doesn't matter what kind of mistake it was. Rectifying the mistake means one of two things, and only offering a refund isn't one of them: either they can give these people their three years of service, or provide compensation for those three years, such as a Tivo with a comparible service agreement.
Companies have to stand by what they advertize. Apple has been sued (successfully) because they advertized that some of their machines would be processor upgradible, or that OS X would run on certain machines.
I've had two TiVos for about 4 years and I love them to death (I've used Reply and don't love them to death).
In response to a post about the 30 second skip remote function replacing the skip-to-the-end button, I wanted to point out that you can have both features (mostly) at the same time.
If you've done the "select, play, select, 3, 0, select" thing, then when you press the ->| button, it advances the play position by 30 seconds, but if you're scanning forward (fast forward, at any speed) and hit the ->| it will skip ahead by 15 minutes. So, FF, then stab ->| four times and you're at the end of the current recording (60 minutes ahead, anyway).
And in response to the post about the TiVo clipping the start and end of shows, I think I can say that its clear you don't have a DirecTiVo that syncs its internal clock with the time of day data in the satellite feed. If it ever misses the start or end, then its almost certainly (always, in my experience) due to the network programming being late.
This easy to check too, btw. You can have the TiVo display on the screen in the lower right corner its internal clock, as well as the position in the current recording that's being played. With that display on, you can easily watch what time the TiVo thinks it is and see when that coincides with the red "recording" LED turning on. To enable that time display use: select, play, select, 9, select. Do it again to turn off the display. (As always, its best to enter these remote codes while you're watching a show on disk (not live TV) so the TiVo wont try to change the channel while you're entering those numbers on the remote!
And one more regarding the TiVo not single-frame stepping backwards: In my experience, if you pause and them immediately hit the "step backwards" button, the TiVo will jump to the first I-frame that immediately precedes the current play position (which is usually not what you want). But, I've found that if you hit pause, then wait about 2 seconds, then hit the back key that it will then start stepping backwards one frame at time.
And finally, a plug for DirecTiVo. I love the fact that my recordings are never recompressed and are stored in a (largely) unaltered form from the way that they are received from the satellite. Having no generational loss is just great -- there is never a reason to watch live TV with this setup in my opinion. (also, it was trivial to install an 802.11 wifi card, web server, ftp server, bigger disks, etc...)
By season pass, it will let you record EVERY episode of a given show on a given channel, regardless of when it is scheduled- meaning for some cable channels, you might end up with three episodes per day. I wish it would compare program descriptions.
Those that suggest you "dance like no one is watching" really want to see you make a complete fool of yourself.
Both Tivo and Replay need to find a better way to make money. Charging as much as they do for guide data reminds me of a newspaper or magazine trying to make all their money off the subscription. They don't, because nobody would buy even the NY Times for $10 per day.
I'm not sure what that is, but perhaps selling more and more compelling software options, more widely licensed software to consumer electronics resellers, broader marketing of usage info (yes, I know the tin hats will go batty here...).
I love my Tivo, but it's a an extremely expensive device when you factor in the box and the lifetime, especially against CATV-provided PVRs, which can be had for as little as $5 per month in some areas. Yes, I'm aware they suck compared to Tivo, but it's a non-investment that doesn't *have* to be perfect for many people.
The Direct TV Tivos appear much cheaper, but that's if you want to invest in Satellite and can get a signal (I can't, so its a moot point).
"Doing some rough math, if they had 20,000 units in the retail channel (a fair guess), it would have cost the struggling Replay unit a $6 million dollar charge."
This isn't even remotely true, unless you work for the RIAA. It is only a 6M loss if 20,000 people walked in the store to buy the unit for $150+300 service fee, and then only ended up paying $150 dollars.
I saw this deal on Fatwallet, so I went and picked one up. I would NOT have otherwise.
The only way this could possibly be considered a $6M loss is if it literally costs them $300 to provide guide data to all those ReplayTV boxes for 3 yrs.
Fix Your Own TV - RiddledTV.com Avoid the Landfill
The last time you wanted a new computer did you grab a fistful of ICs & a soldering iron? No, you drove down to the computer store & bought one. Did some corporation profit from your action?
Do you pay a monthly fee to keep your computer working? I don't. And I didn't solder it myself :).
---- It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it's told.
I'm going to address some of the concerns you highlighted:
"1: "trying to get a steal of a deal". The customers are NOT trying to steal. They want what was prominently advertised in more than one place, from supplier and retailer."
The consumer has a personal responsibility to investigate such "too good to be true" advertising schemes. There is the famous statement "buyer beware." So yes, while this is the fault of Replay itself, perhaps the consumers should've doubted the claims of the company now in control of Replay considering its bankrupted the two prior companies that owned it. Microsoft, with its $50 billion + money in the bank did not do such a promotion with UltimateTV; and TiVo has increased their subscription prices over the years in an effort to break even. Therefore, the offer is too good to be true. Now, it will be up to the consumers burned by this company to report them to their various State Attorney Generals as well as the Better Business Bureau to take some form of action against them.
"2: "Offering 3 years of free service
The business bottom line is completely relevant to the consumer. Would you have bought a Beta VCR if the writing on the wall was that Sony was going to dump it? Would you buy a Mac if Apple's financials were in dire straights? Nope. The same goes with Replay. TiVo has in November just passed the 1 million subscribers mark. Analysts have been saying that TiVo would have to hit 1 million subscribers to break even and finally generate a profit. TiVo heavily subsidizes their own hardware they manufacture and rely on mass subscriptions to pay it back. Replay is doing the same thing. However, TiVo has 900,000 more subscribers than Replay. So how can Replay make money? Replay doesn't even have the promotional ties with the Hollywood studios (like TiVo does) to stream *forced* advertisements onto the machines. So they don't even have supplemental revenues. They are relying on the coffers of D&M to pay for everything, just as they drove SonicBlue into bankruptcy before them, and the original Replay company. So yes, it does matter about the business model whether the company can sustain in the marketplace. After all, you don't want a lame duck machine if the company goes bust again. Or in the computer market, just reference what happened to 3dfx. You can't really get WindowsXP and recent DirectX drivers for the Voodoo3/4/5 line now, can you?
"4: Stuff about Replay's competition: Irrelevant."
Quite the opposite. It is always important to know about the competition of a certain product, especially so you know you'll have some form of customer service to rely upon if your machine goes bad...see my statements in the prior paragraph for more detail...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Do you pay a monthly fee to keep your computer working?
No, I don't, unless you count electricity.
Do I pay a monthly fee to keep my ReplayTV unit working?
No, I don't. I paid the lifetime subscription, remember?
Do you pay a monthly fee to watch cable television? What about a cell phone? Or a standard telephone line? Or Internet? Or electricity? Or heating oil? Or a mortgage? Or rent?
The reason you and other people pay month after month for these services is because they feel that the value they get is greater than the cost they pay. If you or anyone else felt otherwise, the service in question would be cancelled.
You want to feel like a lifetime corporate cash cow? Purchase a home. You pay month in & month out for 30 years & guess what? You still pay. You still have maintenance costs and taxes. Stop paying taxes on the house & you will soon stop paying maintenance costs, if you catch my drift. I for one enjoy the feeling of walking into "my" house, turning on my TV, & watching whatever show whenever I damn well feel like it. If that means I have to pay for a mortgage, electricity, cable TV subscription, & ReplayTV subscription then so be it. If you have found a way to reduce that equation for you by 10 bucks a month, I applaud your efforts. For me, the time it would take for me to research, build, troubleshoot, & maintain the device is worth far more than $10 a month.
Electricity and other utilities consume real and finite resources and require the maintenance of generation and distribution facilities. Cellular telephony requires maintenance of routing and signal distribution infrastructure (and is available without a monthly fee in the form of per-minute prepaid service).
Cable TV is a content subscription (as opposed to payment for metadata and for not crippling a machine's intrinsic abilities as TiVo and ReplayTV do)
If the TiVo/ReplayTV didn't require a guide data subscription simply to operate as a simple PVR, I would consider buying one. I suppose.
your full of crap. I own an iPod and all my friends do, after 2 years, non of them have had any problems.
but if you leave the thing in the car all night, and you drop it and crap like that, you will break it...it is an electronic device, not a frigen basket ball.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
"The consumer has a personal responsibility to investigate such "too good to be true" advertising schemes."
...more analysis of the business end of Replay and its industry.
Yes, that's called caveat emptor - let the buyer beware. It doesn't mean "Let the buyer protect the business interests of the seller". It means the buyer should play it smart and not get taken in by Nigerian 419 schemes and the like.
"perhaps the consumers should've doubted the claims of the company now in control of Replay considering its bankrupted the two prior companies that owned it."
I get a flyer in the mail and I'm supposed to research the history of the company selling a $149 product? Pull up SEC filings, court bankruptcy records, etc? Just how much research do you do when buying, say, a microwave oven? Besides, most customers, once they did find out, would probably figure that if the new company goes bankrupt, the next owners will be required by law to honor the contracts the company has agreed to.
"Microsoft, with its $50 billion + money in the bank did not do such a promotion with "UltimateTV; and TiVo has increased their subscription prices over the years in an effort to break even. Therefore, the offer is too good to be true."
By that reasoning, Linux is too good to be true. Any customer who knows even a little about Microsoft will know beyond a reasonable doubt that MS does not have the customer's business interests at heart. Does the price of Windows tell you anything at all about the viability of Linux? So what MS is doing with UltimateTV doesn't really tell you much about Replay.
"Would you have bought a Beta VCR if the writing on the wall was that Sony was going to dump it?"
Actually, Sony didn't dump Beta. They did somewhat like RedHat is doing now - they got beat in the home market, so they focused on the business market. For many years, it was the standard equipment used in the TV industry for bulk work, like local news sotries, commercials, raw tape footage, "file footage" often shown on the news. I think most of the portable TV cameras also used Beta until satellite feeds became the norm. It's only been recently that tape has started disappearing altogether from TV production studios.
I agree that this effect whether a business in that industry will succeed or fail...but that's not the customer's concern when buying appliances, even ones that require continuous broadcast data from the supplier. The customer should not have to launch an SEC investigation before going to Best Buy to purchase home entertainment electronics. Even if the customer does, you know businesses try their best to cover up, deny, obfuscate negative market info about themselves. The sale would definitely be over by the time the customer finishes the investigation.
"4: Stuff about Replay's competition: Irrelevant."
Quite the opposite.
I stand by this, still. The customer can not be fully informed about every industry involved in every product they purchase. Customers should be able to rely on businesses being honest in their advertisements. Businesses should have the fricken foresight to use a calculator before plaster "3 years free" stickers on a big chunk of their product line. If the company is too stupid to do the math, the company should be forced to pay for it.
Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
But DNNA almost certainly didn't make the mistake. That's the point.
Oh? And on what do you base that assertion? The fact that it said on the packaging that it came with three years of service, the fact that it said *inside the box* that it came with three years of service, the fact that the odds of multiple stores just happening to have the exact same "error" at the exact same time are astronomically low, or the fact that DNNA's own customer service reps said those machines came with 3 years of service?
It was their mistake. Deal with it.
If you believe that all mistakes should be severly punished
When did I say anything about punishment? Thats right, never. What they need to do is offer what they promised - the three years of service that came with those units.
I don't know what you mean that Replay doesn't have a season pass thing. There are three types of recording slots: Show, Channel, and single-record; each can be either guaranteed or non-guaranteed. Show based recording is a particular show in a particular time slot (can restrict based on day of week). It will automatically shift if the show's time changes and is contiguous with whatever show is actually on at the specified time. Single-record is the same as Show, except it is for a particular date only. You can switch an entry between the two easily. For Show, you can specify the number of shows to record, with the oldest one being overwritten. A Channel is based on a search, and you specify how many hours to record. You can guarantee it, but that is just a space guarantee and boosts priority over non-guaranteed recording.
Guarantee with Show and Single (and Manual) both reserves space and prevents conflicts (unless a show shifts in its timeslot, in which case you could have a conflict with another guaranteed show). Time reserved for guaranteed shows, but not yet used, can be used by non-guaranteed shows.
I don't know if newer units have changed; mine is an old 30-hour Panasonic Showstopper. Got it for $200, with a $100 rebate, with lifetime service. I recently upgraded it to a 100GB drive (and it's MUCH quieter and starts up much faster now!). However, the SELECT button on the remote is causing problems. I wonder if I can get it replaced under the Circuit City extended warranty I got for it.