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XFree86 Core Team Disbands
mumumu was among the many to write with this news: "XFree86's release engineer David Dawes has announced that "a majority of the XFree86 core team has voted in favour of my proposal to disband the core team". XFree86's News Headline has a short message about it. Why, all of a sudden?
What is the successor of the XFree86? Xouvert? freedesktop.org?"
this post is t3h f1r5t
Or we will all be doomed.
Uhm...
Hello. Did you know Chali is a disgusting whore? Please surf over to Stile's Stileproject.com to see her latest pornographic material. This bitch disgusts me in her lasivious lifestyle. All day she hungers for sex and masturbates and in general pollutes the human condition. Redeem yourself at #teens4christ. Thanks for reading this.
Hello. Did you know Chali is a disgusting whore? Please surf over to Stile's Stileproject.com to see her latest pornographic material. This bitch disgusts me in her lasivious lifestyle. All day she hungers for sex and masturbates and in general pollutes the human condition. Redeem yourself at #teens4christ. Thanks for reading this.
Hello. Did you know Chali is a disgusting whore? Please surf over to Stile's Stileproject.com to see her latest pornographic material. This bitch disgusts me in her lasivious lifestyle. All day she hungers for sex and masturbates and in general pollutes the human condition. Redeem yourself at #teens4christ. Thanks for reading this.
Why would a successor for XFree86 be needed? As I understand it, this is only a change in the "political" structure of the project, not its end.
Programming can be fun again. Film at 11.
Sounds more like the "core" team weren't actually doing the development anymore, and that they felt it was unfair to be the "core" team when they weren't doing the work.
Nothing to see here folks, keep moving.
"core team was no longer
representative of the active, experienced and skilled XFree86 developers"
That leads me to suspect it isn't XFree86 that is dying, just the current core team is giving up their posts- and probably to be reorganized with new members from among the referred to "active, experienced... developers"
I wouldn't panic yet.
They came in last in the latest Netcraft survey.
This has nothing to do with XFree developement. In fact the non-relation between XFree 'core team' and Xfree development was the actual reason to dispand.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Holy fucking shit. IIRC, Apple's X11.app is based on XFree86, so what are they going to do now? Base it on Xserver, Xouvert, or (God forbid) fork it?
Is this related to the Cygwin/XFree86 blowup a few months back?
What is your new year's resolution?
"We can confirm that Debian does *not* ship the version with the trojan horse. Our version predates it." [CA-2002-28]
That is a relief, as I almost thought for a second that XFree86 was going to disappear... *eek*
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
XFree will be replaced by Microsoft Windows.
Apparently he has no idea what this means, and well, neither do I.
or is it just more&more phonIE ?pr? ?firm? smoke& mirrors hypenosys designed to make you FEEl gooed about being a payper liesense softwar gangster stock markup FraUD execrable's hostage?
stay tuned eye gas.
is miguel (fuddle's # won hired goon, after robbIE of course) going to make an announcemeNT about being the gnu GUI guise?
A lot of big companies still use COBOL, and COBOL is over fifty years old, which means we can keep using X even if it's not being developed anymore. If something is worth using, then it must have a good solid base which can be used for many years to come. We don't need to worry at all for another fifty year or so, when we'll probably need a new system. Why panic now?
Many systems have lived beyond their original development schedules. Financial software written in COBOL, for example, which has caused no problems at all since it was developed, Windows 3.1 which is still more than good enough for most schools and small businesses and has no security flaws despite all thsi time, and the B programming language, which many an OS kernel is written in.
mogorific carpentry experiments
Read the message:
I believe that this is an acknowlegement that the core team was no longer representative of the active, experienced and skilled XFree86 developers, or a place where technical discussion happens.
In effect, nothing is going to change. There are still active, experienced and skilled XFree86 developers out there, who will continue to work just as they always have.
If the XFree86 project truly stalls (and judging by the way other major projects have fractured) then there'll be any number of groups choosing to fork it to develop with their own ideas. Unless they agree on an API or similar framework, this will make it hard for driver vendors like NVidia to target XFree86's derivatives as a platform.
What I predict then is multiple XFree86 fork projects springing up (a la 4.4BSD's fragmentation) and a decline in the quality and quantity of video support for Linux and the BSDs.
What I would *like* to see instead is some cooperation coming out of this. Or possibly a major vendor sponsoring, if they can keep their paws off the direction, an obvious target fork for hardware vendors to work with.
What I'm afraid of is that I will have to go buy an AcceleratedX license.
- J
then perhaps it's a good thing as there has clearly been a fair amount of rankling lately.
Wasn't this what Keith Packard et.al wanted?
Belief is the currency of delusion.
they almost sound like they've been in some type of self induced code bondage and Mr. Lincoln has just set them free. *mental images of xFree86 core team members doing the "freed slave" dance*
I guess that when you have AIDS and a bleeding,prolapsed rectum, it is sort of hard to think about pixels and blit buffers.
/.er can't live without monthly /. dupe about never-takeoff desktop Linux!
It's hard to continue developement when members of the core group were abducted by aliens.
The aliens were interested in them because X11 has alien-like code embedded in it.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Face it.
"Core Team" Development models are out-dated and sound more M$'ish than Open Source'ish.
While several projects continue to use the "Core Team" model, like FreeBSD, in my opinion, the politics involved ain't worth it.
For XFree86, it's time for change. Hopefully, in years to come, we will see a more efficient graphics subsystem for Unix (MacOS X may be an example) weather it be by a XFree86, XF86 Fork, or some other system (NOT framebuffer because fb doesn't work well with some hardware)
Okay guys, no matter how much you want it, there is no "January Fools." What the hell, you even got the date wrong! Try again in 4 months and maybe it'll be funny.
"Software is like sex; it's better when it's free." -Linus Torvalds
in order to handle the astronomical #'s of folks escaping from corepirate nazi hostagedumb, & becoming stakeholders in the wwuniverse.
no problem. unprecedented evile has finally met it's match. see you there?
consult with/trust in yOUR creators.... yOUR day in the sun is upon us.
After comparing the /. headline with the actual content of the email, I wonder what exactly /. *does* check on before they post these...I feel like they're trolling for a bunch of misinformed readers to overreact.
It may be newsworthy, but considering the length of the message, why not just post the original email and be done with it?
Long live X!
From what little i've heard over the past few months, the XFree core team had become something of an elitist boys-club, completely and totally closed to the idea of accepting any outside code/ideas. Fuck that shit.. There were people who wanted write access to CVS, and HAD perfectly working code, and who were refused outright by that sad sack of pricks.
Bowie J. Poag
seen on this site. Just stop and think for a second of the potential ammunition you are giving to the propriety "non-Free" software guys by making this post read the way it does.
My first reaction was "Linux is dead as a MS alternative now" (until I read the article and realized it is just a preliminary step in the team reorganizing themselves.)
I suspect many people (ie the CIO we are trying to win over) will react badly to this.
Hello. Did you know Chali is a disgusting whore? Please surf over to Stile's Stileproject.com to see her latest pornographic material. This bitch disgusts me in her lasivious lifestyle. All day she hungers for sex and masturbates and in general pollutes the human condition. Redeem yourself at #teens4christ. Thanks for reading this.
This brings up a good point: is anyone to maintain xFree86 anymore? Sure, the source is still available, but is the project documented well enough that another team could pick up in a year where this one left off? Interesting questions that the open source community will have to answer if proprietary source is to be defeated once and for all.
stuff |
It just picks up where somebody left off.
I can guarantee you something will replace it. Actually, the project has already forked.
Besides, most posters aren't even interpreting the statement as the "end of XFree86", just a reorganization of "official roles/titles" within the team.
Why do we need Xfree86 core team? All they did was argue and slow development down with their politics.
People don't exist to serve systems, systems exist to serve people.
Given the tenor of many comments it seems not everybody has read this seminal text! Mind you, some of the politics is pretty much off the wall - especially in the post-bubble world. The other issue is that the model highlights the extent to which we are all dependent on a few good citizens to give up their time and life to make this happen. Core teams work when people are being paid to do the job, but not when whn you are relying on the generousity of a few talented individuals.
with NC-17?
...
I, as the core Linux person, step down.
Nobody seems to know who the core XFree86 team is, or what they do or even did and who or what is going to replace them. The whole story consists of maybe 20 lines. No answers. Nothing.
I nominate this as Slashdot's most useless story of 2003!
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
This is are opputunity, to Kombine, Konquer and rise to a new age in GUI design!
Look at the projects such as KDE 3.2 beta, Cairo, Looking glass, Karamba for example. They are researching new and innovative GUI's, but there is one problem, the X11 limitations are hurting them. Some of them are pushing X11 to the limit, looking at some sourcecode gives me nightmares!
Xouvert, KDE, Gnome and all other interested parties should join up to make it happen.
We need to update and break the current X11 protocal since there is a lot of kludges and write a new faster one, call it X12, unify GTK, Qt, Motif and more into one universal licencing freindly toolkit to run on X12. Integrate all the new technology such as vector widgets, antialasing, and stuff into this X12 toolkit and to symbolise this new change, rename it K12. There should be X11 compatibillity layer, like Mac OS Classic on OS X, just for the old apps such as propreitrey ones.
Then release KDE 4, rewritten in K12, along with the enhancements. K12 should be similar to an existing toolkit so it will be easy to port applications such as Gimp, OpenOffice, Mozilla and the rest. Since there is no more licencing issues with the new toolkit, no need to have seperate gnome/kde anymore, just one desktop environemnt. This will make things consistent, and allow stuff like copy and paste work PERFECTLY!
Then, integrate with Linux 2.6, and other technologies to make the Open Source Desktop dream come true : One unified desktop that is easy to use, yet MORE powerful than the command line.
This Neo-GUI plan may feel unreal, and maybe almost imposible with all the holy wars between X11, KDE, Gnome, and the others, but XouverK could come true if we realise we are only hidering ourselfs as of now! For example, why dosen't gimp use the KDE file dialog!
With constant pressure from lawsuits, and now the loss of its XWindows system, this pretty much look like the end of Linux.
Pretty soon, sendmail will start charging for the latest versions, I can see sun stopping support for its low-cost line of servers, and one of the big boys (say Redhat) may drop support completely for Linux on the desktop.
2003 could be the beginning of the end for our handsome penguin friend.
Meanwhile, the BSD's go about their business quietly building marketshare, freed from all of those issues by AT&T's wise decision to help build the Free BSD's.
With Microsoft's dominance over, Linux spirling in, Sun about $30 from going chapter 11, the BSD fanatics appear to be the only wise fanatics out there.
Long live the daemon!
> What is the successor of the XFree86?
. html] and directfb [http://www.directfb.org/news/count/gtk-themed-alp ha.png] and others.
> Xouvert? freedesktop.org?"
Not that I'm an X hater but I truly hope that this brings room to new, non-X initiatives.
Like: plan9 [http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/screenshot
I wish good luck to Xouvert, freedesktop.org and all the others that now have to think of the future!
cies
I'm going to forego the opportunity to use my moderator points today on this story because every odd-numbered post in the list is already "Score:5 Insightful". There's just a wealth of wisdom here, and I have precious little to add.
In all fairness to those who questioned the future of X, I was momentarily confused by the announcement, too. It appears this little group of developers has finally just gotten out of the way. I'm hoping there's still a person or two to moderate code additions while the rest of the community keeps up the project.
-j
Any switch can blow up if a transition isn't well-planned or done with the right expertise. In my experience, major shifts like that require a lot of training of existing staff while bringing in a number of consultants that are fluent in the new tech.
True, choosing a product that is a poor fit will make it blow up in your face, but that doesn't mean that sticking with the old code forever is the answer.
Besides, we use SAP at my place of work and are pretty damn successful.
"Besides, most posters aren't even interpreting the statement as the "end of XFree86""
Most posters here sincerely believe Microsoft is in trouble, too.
Counting on the collective "wisdom" on slashdot is an interesting way to be continuously wrong.
*BSD?
Join Tor today!
signatures are for fools with hands
Just some folks will have one less title on their business cards.
Move along folks, nothing to see here.
Maybe SCO sent the developers a letter, after all SCO claims anything that looks unixy.
(is unixy a word?)
Counting on the collective "wisdom" on slashdot is an interesting way to be continuously wrong.
I count on "slashbot wisdom" quite often with great success. It is an excellent contrary indicator.
But then again, that is just a roundabout way of agreeing with you.
Why do you say that?
"I think this line is mostly filler"
How will XFree maintain control without the bureaucracy?
Why all a sudden?
Maybe because David Dawes was too difficult to work with and not open enough to allowing non-core developers to contribute?
I for one welcome our new active, experienced and skilled XFree86 developer overlords.
XExpensive86?
Not, never, ever, in any way, shape or form, "XFree". The software is called "XFree86". The numbers are part of the name, just like "Element17" (company that formed from the ashes of Acorn).
Why do people call it "XFree"? Sure, it runs on more than x86 machines now, but it's still entirely incorrect.
If someone is looking for alternatives, look at XGGI, part of the the GGI project. Together with directfb or KGI(currently focussing at BSD, but the Linux core is there too) it's really powerfull.
Well, at least Apple's support of XDarwin is still around. I doubt Apple will ever get support the freedesktop.org efforts because that would mean supporting alpha-channels for non-Mac platforms.
http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
Egon:40 years of darkness, earthquakes, volcanos.
Winston:The dead rising from the grave!
Venkman:Human sacrifice, dogs and cats, living together... mass hysteria!
And now, no more core team!
They're sure to appear on an upcoming VH-1 "Behind the Music" special and be on the verge of a reunion tour. Playing smaller venues supposedly in order to "get back to their roots" and "get closer to their fans."
I hope whatever this team is that it forms in some sane normal country with rational IP laws that will not threaten to sue if they add a tuner driver or render engine that might, GOD FORBID allow someone to do something some industry might not like. Before you go there, nothing stops them from building or distributing a given module with these features removed for those sad companies that must be able to work and distribute in the new Soviet opps!! I meant US.
You know... Nostradamus predicted all of this.
The XFree86 site has a page that says they disbanded. Here is a mirrored list of core team members . Some have been around a while ... easy to loose interest.
The little guy just ain't getting it, is he?
http://www.directfb.org/ is a very good answer... Look at the gtk-directfb implementation. The GNOME desktop could quickly drop the X11 dependency using a directfb backend gtk implementation.
I could have sworn it was a well-documented part of the model..
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
I'm not saying this was the wrong decision (I honestly don't know if it was), just that it could have been handled in a much better way. Every time some open source project has one of their typical public pissing matches (and I'm NOT implying that's what happened here) or makes some wrenching change, it just hands the closed source forces a big stick to beat us with. You can hear them telling customers, "See? Do you want to trust your company or university to a bunch of developers who can just kill off a major project and walk away, with no commitment from anyone to continue development?"
The disbanding of the current XFree86 core team does not mean an end to the continuing development of XFree86, it means a change of people recongised as being key players.
The biggest remaining question IMHO is whether there will be a expansion of cvs commit access. I think the former core team realises that new up and coming developers need to be added to the project to subtain the continuing improvement and work with others groups such as X.org, and freedesktop.org. To say nothing of expanding access to video card manufacturers so they can maintain and improve open source drivers for their cards (Most companies are at least partial supportive of 2D drivers, the real issues occur over 3D accelation).
I expect it will end up being a good thing.
Back in the day Xfree86 needed to be a corporation to trademark the term "Xfree86" so they created this weird organization with a constitution and everything. There was the board and there was the core. Later another group was added, people who had commit access to the CVS repository, but weren't on the core. Then at the bottom there were regular developers.
The problem is that no one really new what the core does except that it had a private email list. Even people on the core didn't know. (I'm not making this up).
Historically XFree86 has had closed developement. If you wanted to read the developers emails or look at the development code you had to apply and be approved. A couple years ago they openned up the CVS repository to the world. Then earlier this year they openned up all the development email lists.
But once in a while when during code discussions people would say, "Oh that. We discussed on the core email list and we decided it sucked. Case closed." That kind of thing gets annoying.
Some people said that the core email list should be destroyed, but the answer was that, "Why do you care? All the development discussion is on the developers email list." This was probably true in theory if not in real life.
To be on the core you had to be selected after coding for 3 or 4 years. It's not worth it really because as I said, no one knows what the core does and all the real power is held by the people with CVS commit access anyway.
The whole idea of a core group was stupid and pointless. The reason it stuck around for so long was that XFree86 developers are stubborn people. Everyone (often not developers) was telling them to change and have elections and so they said, "Screw you. We'll do whatever we want." Another reason was that some people on the core group weren't active developers and didn't follow the lists closely. They didn't realise how frustrated people were.
I've been getting more and more upset as I write this post thinking about how XFree86 used to be, but I started out just wanting to say that it was a good thing. I believe it is a good thing for XFree86. It's a sign that the project is becoming more transparent and responsive to developers. It takes humility on the part of the core members to give up the extra privileges.
This is a good thing for everyone.
I think we really need a new X server, dedicated to desktop use. It looks like the RENDER model is going to be the primary graphics model these days and applications expect both multithreading and lots of bitmap storage from the X server.
Yet, the existing X server originated out of a code base that highly optimized the traditional X11 graphics model and assumed a completely different mix of clients and applications. That means that a lot of complexity in the existing server is devoted to optimizing things few people still care about.
A new implementation could replace that code with simple, generic implementations and focus on making the stuff that everybody uses these days efficient.
It may also be worth using C++ for such a new X server. That's not because C++ is "object oriented", but because C++ standardizes a number of facilities that big software systems need, like exceptions and resource cleanup, but for which C has no single standard.
Actually, at the same time, it might also be good to create a second, minimal X server from scratch that is aimed at handhelds and machines with very limited resources. Some existing work on such servers is based on XFree86, but I suspect one might be able to cut things down to an X server that gets by with 100-200k of code and data with careful coding and choice of features.
YES BABY !!!!
then a new core team will appear. In fact, we already have one: XOuvert.
Actually, XOuvert and whatever else might succeed the XFree86 core team is in roughly the same situation as XFree86 was with respect to MIT X11 when they got started.
Let's just be clear: X11 is here to stay no matter what because it's a protocol standard, not any particular implementation. And the XFree86 codebase already has at least one new group of maintainers, and I wouldn't be surprised if it found another. Both X11 and XFree86 are so widely used, successful, and important that any other outcome is inconceivable.
by the Google translater: It appears that Keith Packard is translated into "Keith luggage pool of broadcasting corporations"
If anybody was honestly curius about what this meant, you might have checked the mail archives of the devel list. Here is a more detailed message from David Dawes. 'Nuff said.
Are the mods on crack? Mod this as "funny" or "not funny", but hardly flamebait.
I guess 15 year old fanboys are stupid.
Flanders: "Well, I guess this is a case where we'll have to agree to disagree."
Principal Skinner: "I don't agree to that."
Ms. Krabappel: "Neither do I."
Ned: Ho, ho, this is a dilly of a pickle.
Man: Oh my God...the PTA has disbanded! (jumps out a window)
Ned: No, no! The PTA has not disbanded. (the man reverses his path through the window and sits down)
CB
free ipod and free gmail!
Netscape/AOL stopped funding mozilla, but the developers who worked on it were able to continue because the source code was publicly available.
He's the only one with any really good ideas.
-Don
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
Nobody doubts that Linus did a lot of good to the world and still does to this day. But I do think he has a particular vision for Linux and his reputation keeps people who have some disagreement from forking or working on another OS.
Say, I want to contribute a USB kernel module for my webcam. So I read a nice doxygen reference about the virtual methods I need to override in LinVideoCapture class. Then I write my driver and put binary and optionally source on my website. I shouldn't have to update/recompile it for a couple of years, until the next major rewrite of the kernel that changes LinVideoCapture signatures.
Umm... Actually it's more like I need to read lots of uncommented C code for other drivers that access kernel data structure that seem to have nothing to do with video or USB. Then when I am done I need to make source code changes every couple of month and provide a separate binary for non-SMP, SMP and so on kernels Redhat ships.
I wrote many TSRs/drivers in ASM for DOS and it's a joy compared to ASM-like C for Linux. Yes, OSes are more complicated now. But they should also provide higher-level interfaces to compensate.
Or I can just run Windows (well, MacOSX in my case) and spend the same effort to write a nice Java video-editing app. I would love to have an OS that people really use and that makes contributing to the kernel pleasent though. Like a forked Linux distribution with kernel interfaces, libc, ld.so, threading model, gcc C++ ABI... thought though once and stabalized for long time.
I think we should congratulate the core team for doing the right thing. Its pretty rare for any institution to volintarily disband no matter how irrelevant it becomes. I can think of a few institutions a lot less relevant than this group that have continued plugging along for generations.
These people are showing maturity and class usually missing in the software industry. Just by taking this action, the team has refuted one of the more subtle FUD points out there, that projects will eventually peter out or be consumed by internal bickering.
The fdo.o X server is most likely going to be the successor to XFree86, even if development of XF86 continues. They fd.o X server project is led by Keith Packard, who did a lot of the work on Render and Xft, basically bringing XFree86 into the 20th century. He is also getting help from people who really know what they are doing, like Jim Gettys. They are working on the following features:
- A core X server based on the lightweight kdrive codebase (formerly TinyX).
- Back-buffering of all windows, like OS X. This will enable OS X-style fancy window effects like shadows and whatnot.
- OpenGL accelerated 2D rendering. This is a big step up from Apple's system, because it will accelerate actual drawing via OpenGL, not just window compositing. As a result of this, there is a lot of talk about seperating OpenGL from the X server, and allowing the X server to be just another OpenGL app running on top of a low-level OpenGL acceleration layer.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Perfectly working code should definitely be refused if it's too complicated, breaks consistency, ignores development basics like code reuse, comments and proper class design or will cause lead developers to loose understanding of their project, without the author being willing/able to take over.
It's another question if XFree code team were no longer lead developers, or if another group of people can do the job better. But a project with a lot of contributers and without any moderators will degenerate to chaos before you can say Bazaar.
Not trolling, but for me the successor to XFree86 is turning out to be Apple's X11.app.
org.slashdot.post.SignatureNotFoundException: ewg
Welcome to the reason OSS doesn't succeed in the mainstream like commercial software does. Politics, idealism, and lack of interest screw it all up. It's viewed as much too fickle to be reliable. This reflects in the final products as well.
I'm not trolling but making a sincere point here in the hopes things improve. Reply if you disagree, but don't downmod me for it (just saying because I've had it happen before).
"Sufferin' succotash."
This is another great example of slashdot's editors twisting the facts to make a story more interesting.
For this and many other transgressions, I humbly submit that the answer be found in sacred jihad against slashdot's editors. Join anti-slash.
The linux hacker
It seems that the tone of this article is misleading; X development will continue on in good health.
However, I always find myself thinking about Y as an X replacement. It's certainly not the most mature option out there, but reading throught the PDF is a pleasure, as the author seems to have struck a great balance of power and simplicity.
Cheers.
Not just the software, but I mean the development. It's development by committee. Look at the rapid pace of the Linux kernel--headed by one guy.
Compare to XFree86 and its Board of Directors, Consortium, Core team, etc. And then people wonder why there is frustration at the slow pace of development. I'm not even talking about retardedly simple things like RandR (a feature even Windows 95 had close to a decade ago).
"Sufferin' succotash."
XDarwin
You say X doesn't suck, but then explain how it doesn't fully utilize graphics cards.
X doesn't work. I hate dragging a simple window and have a trail of tutti-fruity after it, or waiting 5 seconds for a menu to popup. Here's the part where you blame the window manager, or the graphics library, or the desktop environment.
XFree86 doesn't dare do a thing wrong. Hold on while we hack on yet another "extension," and then meanwhile in a Microsoft discussion complain that you can't hack on things that weren't in the core design of Windows.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Now, see, 90% of the people reading Slashdot will assume XFree86 has completely disbanded because of that completely misleading article summary that asks for a successor.
If you bring things like this up to CmdrTaco in, say, an e-mail, you'll either get no reply or a really nasty, sarcastic response. It's frustrating.
"Sufferin' succotash."
remember this? The developer responsible for the Cygwin implementation of Xfree left the project after dealing with the core "team"'s bad attitude. I think other active contributors must have finally overthrown the gate keepers.
1st known failed CIA coup in South America : http://www.chavezthefilm.com/index_ex.htm
This is a troll, and a pathetic attempt at that. You hate linux, you've made that abundantly clear. Sincere my ass.
Next!
You, sir, are the reason I read slashdot with a +6 bonus to flamebait.
What, will it now support them new-fangled horseless carriages?
I know, the joke is that X seems so out of date feature wise in terms of eye-candy cruft, but the average technology level of the 20th century isn't too impressive.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
step 1: http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~mbt99/Y/ .1 source
step 2: grab the Y
step 3: hack hack hack
(Morale of the story: only read /. when drunk, and don't host important projects on sourceforge. At least have decent backups and spare web/CVS space)
Programming can be fun again. Film at 11.
Just look here or here.
Next.
This happens just as often, if not moreso in commercial products. How many games and applications have been dumped due to overspending, employees leaving due to morale problems, and just plain differing views on how the company should be run by the higher-ups.
This type of problem is NOT limited to OSS, as you'd like people to believe.
You make some good points that computers are still hard to use by their current nature. However, you're confusing the previous poster with phone support. S/he was working a sales floor, dealing with new users coming in without their computer, and unable to either retain the detailed troubleshooting methods given until they got back to the home/office, or use care when diving into the guts of an OS. The poster TRIED to help, and got his ass FRIED for it by finger pointing customers. The subsequent simplification of the poster's tech support wasn't lazy, it was protecting his job.
Luke, help me take this mask off
It's exactly what the open source community needed.
A dumping ground for ANY works in progress that
can be re-used and a great assist for works that
won't be dumped.
The really neat and useful stuff always seems
to find the time and resources to get developed.
It's the stuff 'just because' that usually gets left
behind.
"Windows 3.1 which is still more than good enough for most schools and small businesses and has no security flaws despite all this time,"
The very idea that 3.1 has no security flaws is
so laughable. The only reason you don't hear about
them is because nobody has targeted it long enough.
The whole security loophole finding community didn't
really evolve until after 95 came out and 95 had so
many exploits and crap in it, who needed to focus on
3.1????
No security flaws LOL.. thanks.. I was having a bummer morning ROTFLMAO!!!
I vote for Xouvert
on my Thinkpad 600x using kernel 2.4, the fb works pretty well using the
Neomagic Corporation NM2360 [MagicMedia 256ZX]
but with kernel 2.6, scrolling with the fb is really messed up.
I don't understand why people want to ditch X-Windows. The X-Windows system is a fine window system. It's not slow, it's extendable, it's networkable, and it runs in every Unix system/clone.
The problem lies with the layers above xlib: the toolkits. Actually, not the toolkits themselves, but how they are used. For example, the Linux GUIs suffer from bad fonts and bad font sizes, bad placement of text, bad placement of buttons, too much info on the screen, improper colors, and usability issues like cut-copy-paste etc.
To those that they request a new window system based on accelerated 3d graphics, I have to say this: it does not fit with the Unix mentality. Unix can run in minimal hardware. I can run TWM on a 486 and the machine will just fly. But if a new window system comes along that is based on new 3d accelerators, lots of old systems will be left out...and not forget other unix systems that might not have 3d acceleration at all. And the truly impressive effects that Quartz can achieve are just eye-candy...most professionals will turn them off anyway.
Moreover, that "ATI lags and nVidia is buggy" is their own fault, since they have not done the above, and is really not the fault of X.
So, in short, my blame is sorely misplaced. It should be focused squarely on the 3D card manufacturers and not the specific X server itself.
No hard feelings, right? ^_^;
Good, maybe we'll get something that doesn't suck now.
All these years of people whining how X is no good, chuck it away, (kick, kick, kick the developers while their down), now you're all scared of loosing X
Sorry but it serves you right you rotten mongrel's :-D.
in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that
Francis Smit
XFree86 was the Cathedral, now it looks like they are recognizing that the Bazaar model of development may be more applicable to their software.
The more you know, the less you understand.
Sounds like sweet movie.. "X is Loose".
Even trolls need spellcheckers.
Err... I guess even smart asses could use a grammar checker too. ;)
Mandrake = bankrupt
Red Hat = User XP
SuSE = Novell = SCO
X = development disaster
Slackware != user friendly
Debian = Sucks
My friends... Linux IS DEAD!
After reading this, I convinced myself that it's time to start using XP in the home and 2003 Server in the office.
Today, I'll start formating all the HD.
Was nice while it last, but this is a big shit.
LOL good work /. douche-esque editors.
/. = loves the cock /. editors/moderators are all trolls. Thats the only reasonable conslusion which can be drawn from this. Why else would a massively popular site like /. post utter bullshit? /. users (ie the douches who have replied oin this thread) go do us all a favour and commit suicide. The world doesnt need dumbasses like you polluting the gene pool.
Nice way to totally misrepresent this issue.
Just like every other xfree86 issue recently.
All the xwin content (website, lists, etc) is in the process of migrating to freedesktop.org (the machines live right next to one another), since the xwin.org machine was recently retasked for another project.
It hasn't died or anything, I just haven't gotten around to getting funky with Apache virtual hosting.
Cheers,
Daniel Stone (daniel [at] (fooishbar|xwin|freedesktop) [dawt] org)
Female Prison Rape in NY
There are some kernel trees which are diferents of Linus tree. If Linus become a dictator, other tree will be adopted for the developers.
Cool. It's good to hear xwin.org will carry on.
the negative thinking here. The 'core team' philosophy as a whole was the straw that broke many camels' backs, including freedesktop.org.
The rigid holding of control (as it appeared) by the core team has now been relieved and the actual developers, movers and shakers in the XFree86 project now have less red tape to cut through to make the project what we would all like it to be!