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Working Around Bad Luck on the Resume?
Dodger asks: "A year ago I was laid off from my job after 2 1/2 years, shortly after the product I was working on shipped. Later that year, a company moved me 1500 miles from Texas to California, to start working on a promising project, just to have the plug pulled by the corporation that funded it five weeks later, which resulted in another layoff. Now, there's a period of job seeking followed by a five week period of employment, followed by the current job seeking period on my resume. When the companies I interview with ask about that situation I simply explain, while trying not to whine or complain. What do other Slashdot readers do to make 'bad luck' (or bad employer choices) look less bad on their resume, and sound less bad in interviews?"
If the person interviewing you is a white coder who reads Slashdot tell them your job was outsourced.
If anyone knew, they would probably be working rather than reading slashdot.
Hell, that's what my wife does!
And during interview tell the truth that you were laid off. People understand the situation
I believe every employer appreciates a bit of honesty.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Lie.
No, really, just be honest like you already have been. The people interviewing you are human too, and they can understand bad luck like anyone else. Just put your best qualities far enough out there and layoffs like this shouldn't even be a factor to the interviewer.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
When they ask questions of prior jobs that were unsatisfactory, simply yell "That's none of your concern, you insensative clod!"
Setec Astronomy
Shrug and laugh about it. Attitude counts for a lot.
Just tell the interviewer that "shit happens". They'll understand. Worked for me!
but be positive ... Don't whine or pout. Just explain the situation, highlight any positives and then try to steer the focus back on the better parts of your resume.
If they ask about it, just do what you're doing now. Explain the situation to them and they'll probably understand, if they don't well you probably wouldn't want to work their anyway (well actually if they don't understand then they probably don't layoff people and I guess you would want to work their, oh well.)
...to bond with my fellow inmates.
You shouldn't just be sit around while you are unemployed. You should always be keeping your skills polished and up-to-date. Then you will have something to tell them. It is best if you can account for all of your time while unemployed.
Step #1:
;)
Get a job. ANY JOB. Showing you have a job indicates that you are a "go getter", willing to do what it takes. Trust me.
Step #2:
Hit the Pavement. When a job in your field opens up, even if it is a step down from your current pay grade, take it.
Step #3:
If your field is networking, start doing networks for churches/schools/etc. for free. Include it on your resume. If coding, get into an open source project. If business or law, go to hell.
Those will drastically help you reinforce the idea that you are not lazy, just unfortunate.
Besides, so what if a project fell flat because someone else pulled the plug? You took a chance on being part of it; sounds like a good resume item to me.
I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
You weren't dismissed in spite of your project successfully shipping. You were disposed of because your project shipped. It's not uncommmon where moronic managers treat developers like construction crews. Hire when the work picks up and let go when the work is done. Most managers are too dim to understand the difference between skilled and unskilled labour.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
...that you got fired for looking at goatse at work
Reminds me of a funny Dogbert strip:
Always put impressive but impossible to verify jobs on your resume.
Employer: So Mr. Dogbert, it says here that you worked as a senior spy for the CIA.
Dogbert: Yes, and I was told to kill anyone who asks for details about it.
You won't sound like whining, and trust me, a lot of people here will tell a lot worse horror stories. Probably the people interviewing you have worse horror stories than that. Even I do, and mine aren't nearly that bad.
;)
So, don't sweat it. If they ask tell the truth. It helps if the truth is "well, during my periods of unemployment I have been keeping my skills up to date, and have been working on X projects to keep me busy".
That's it dude, trust me.
Lemure, wtf! Don't you mean Lemur?
With your "knowledge" of 50 programming languages and dozen operating systems, not to mention your ability to network 60 Xbox's, which ironically, are their prerequisites anyways. :p
Employers want to know how to get hold of your previous management, too, and pointing out that they're also not there any more tends to help.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
A lot of people have had jobs that they don't talk about. Pick one or two jobs that have you had good references from put them on. Then say that you were studying in the gaps.
If your referees can confirm you have the skills required for the job, you'll have a solid chance.
It'll be worth it in the end. Just doin't hesitate to tell the truth and when/if you get the job, you'll be far better off. Lying will only make them question you and give them a good reason not to employ you.
-N
I've nothing to say here...
From plausible to absurd:
I was spending time with my family
Extended vacation
Self-education/Wanted to learn something new
I was writing a book
Home renovation/improvment
Spiritual retreat in the desert
Creating and failing with dot-com startup
Using exfoliation to remove tattoo
Hunted down Steve Bartman to "express my feelings"
Take your pick.
I'd be frank about it. It's a fact of life in today's market place that employment comes and goes quickly. While brief stints of employment may have counted against you three or more years ago, a reasonable hiring manager will recognize that you're a victim of the current economic situation. Just don't present yourself as a victim; being positive about it is the best course.
I've had literally three companies go out of business on me, and one company I ethically could not work for (owner was trying to bilk millionaires out of investment cash) in the last 3.5 years. So 3.5 years, 4 companies.
One recruiter I talked to started the conversation saying "I know the job market recently is what's to blame for your spotty employment" and then only ten minutes later said "My client is looking for someone who doesn't jump from job to job so much," so even someone who acknowledges the reason for your problems can very quickly forget it and start thinking you're a job jumper.
So how did I solve this problem? I simply grouped all the jobs I worked for in the past 3.5 years as bullet items under a single 3.5-year job of Database Architect Consultant.
This helps a lot, because consultants are supposed to have multiple employers (it doesn't hurt that I've also done some consulting work during this time).
The problem then is that when you talk to companies, they assume you want to continue consulting. So begin the interview with "I've been doing W-2 consulting, and I really want the stability and long-term relationships I can get with a full-time job."
It's really an interesting perception that people get when they look at a resume with many short-term jobs on it. They just can't get over the fact that it may be completely not your fault and they still somehow blame you.
You need to understand this psychology and then mask that fact from them (for their own good!). Otherwise they will end up hiring some lamer who happened to work for a company that lasted a lot longer than your companies even though said lamer isn't as qualified as you.
fifth sigma, inc.
It sounds like you're doing the right thing.
As a hiring manager in a software company let me tell you, you're situation doesn't look bad, assuming it's exactly as you tell it. If I bring someone in for an interview, and they tell me what you've been through, I'd be more likely to empathize with their situatition rather than hold it against them. So, just tell the truth.
The one thing that might be a problem is getting to the interview. You may need to do a bit of work on your cover letter to make it plain that the funding was cut rather than you losing the job because of cause.
One other thing - you may not want to include a 5 week job on your resume. Unless you gained a lot of important job experience in 5 weeks, I'd be likely to write the entire thing off. Since resume space is limited, you may want to include a former job that is more relevant to the position you are applying to.
... by getting interviews in the first place.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Now, there's a period of job seeking followed by a five week period of employment, followed by the current job seeking period on my resume.
Shrug sheepishly and say, "My 'acting' career just didn't pan out."
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
I don't understand why in the US it is such an issue with having a gap in your resume? When I was 25 I quit my job in Australia and spent a full year travelling, living off my savings going through Asia/India/Europe. I told this to people from the US and they were horrified? How will you explain this to employers, they said? I tell them the truth, I decided to take a year off and travel.
Here in Australia this is quite common and perfectly acceptable, also in europe it's no big deal many people over there do this.
So if I lived in the US and I say I decided I didn't want to work because I had saved enough money to live on and I wanted to travel/write the american novel/sit at home and play video games/whatever, exactly why should an employer care?
Same applies for periods of unemployment, why does a gap matter?
Just tell it as it is. You are currently unemployed, due to layoffs in your previous company. A rational employer should thus be able to deduce that you might still be talented, as corporate layoffs are often somewhat random. If your potential employer is not rational, you don't want to work there anyway. Being unemployed even has a bonus when applying for jobs. You can start at once, and you are desperate...
Tell them you had to take an extended leave of absence due to a death in your family. If they try to verify this, kill a family member.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
The best thing to do would to simply explain to them that the man's trying to hold you down. Also, that you'll program for food.
Photo Aspect -- an open, free, J2EE & JBoss photoalbu
Now, there's a period of job seeking followed by a five week period of employment, followed by the current job seeking period on my resume.
:)"
Explain, candidly: "Who knew you couldn't support yourself by bloging and posting comments to Slashdot wouldn't pay? By the way, I have another Slashdot comment coming up soon, stay tuned. Subscribe now and I'll let you read it!
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
... just tell them, " I'm glad you brought this up, and even happier you read /., because they actually posted my submission on this very topic and an hour later I had excellent karma "
-- I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous
Lying can also give them grounds to fire you at a later date.
One technique that can be applied to many job interviews is to turn the situation around and make them try to sell the job to you. If you have a history of being let go by former employers stress that it's important that your next job be with a stable, successful company and ask pointed questions about the new company. Let them try to convince you that the new company is respectable and trustworthy. Then they'll feel like they've invested something in you by convincing you.
Don't lie, period. Just tell the truth. Employers are looking for hard working, intelligient, and honest people.
Bryan
If the layoffs are not your fault then the employer won't care as long as you are honest regarding the reasons. Don't sound bitter, and above all, DON'T make it sound as though the layoffs were a result of poor management. If pressed for details be very discreet and non-judgemental in the response - a "The company decided that they could no longer provide work for me" sounds MUCH better than "they canned me as soon as they finished using me". I as a manager don't mind seeing a period of unemployment if it is not a result of the person's actions and with the collapse of IT jobs that's unfortunately become common.
***Blackholes are where the gods divided by zero.***
I'd suggest you list the dates as... "10/2003-11/2003 (project cancelled)" to prevent the quick discard. After that, just be honest about your history and show no bitterness.
I've hired over 100 engineers. One short hop (less than 2 or 3 years) requires explaining. Two short hops get the resume tossed.
The fact that you were able to get hired twice in your proffession during the down economy is an asset not a burdon.
The fact that you were moved to CA either means you are desperate or worth a big investment. Make sure it spins good (even if it was desperation).
If the out of work periods are short enough I would take it as a good sign that you are being snapped up, not bad that you were layed off.
Don't lie. If you do anyone that has a personal reason for not liking you could possibly get HR to look into it and you could be fired for lieing on your resume.
Just remember that your against people who were likly under-employed or out of work with no short projects inbetween.
None of this is expierience (except the lieing thing) but it is what maked personal sense to me. So if someoen with actual expierence in your shoes disagrees they may be more correct then me.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Okay, so you're months between clients.
So it goes.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
Yah i know, could you talk to her about that?
Depends on where you are in life but..
When the layoff started happening I must have gone through about 4 companies in 3 years. (Silicon valley, it was nuts here!) It even got to the point where I could "smell" when a layoff was going to occur for anyone. Sort of like how one minute all the zebra's are munchin grass, and the next minute, before the lion goes into chase mode, they all look at that one and say, "He's next to go!"
I got so sick of blurring my resume, lying, filling in the blanks, stretching out employment dates, overstating my job and depending on someone else for a paycheck that the last layoff was the last straw. I flipped my middle finger in the direction of all these guys "charging" me for doing my W-2 while they loaned themselves a mountain of company money to buy themselves a house while saying "Hey taxman, this isn't personal income, this is a "LOAN" from the company to me, haha on you"
So I started my own company. No big deal. Just go down to your city office, pay your business tax, and if you want a corporation (I went LLC) just have an agent like thecompanycompany.com fill out your paperwork with the state for about $800.
You know what you do for a living now right? Why not just offer it up to the general public with a real company. Call your old boss up and tell him you've started your own deal, and if he knows anyone looking for help. Chances are he'll hire you or pass your name around.
There was this other slashdot article a while back about going on your own. I recomend searching the archives for it.
"Just falsify it! Every other bastard does..."
Not a smart idea. I was reading on CNN the other day that Yahoo's got a "see your background" service going up soon. (Hotjobs or something?) Evidently, there are web services out there where a potential employer can look you up and verify where you've worked etc. If that doesn't sync up with what you say in the interview/resume, then a lever is pulled and you fall through a trap door. Yahoo's service is meant to provide somebody with a means of seeing what's on their record (For a modest price...) and get it rectified if it's wrong.
Lying in the digital age is a bad idea.
"Derp de derp."
Yep I lived in the US for 1 year. I'm just amazed that they've managed to convince 250 million people that working your whole life and resfusing to take your one week off a year vacation for fear thet it might cause you to be passed over for a promotion is a good thing.
It seems to me in the US the priorities between corporate life and "lifestyle" or personal development are all out of whack and that's why even small gaps in your resume are an issue in the US but no big deal in other western countries.
Almost every unemployed techie these days got that way not because it was our own fault, but just like the examples above, projects get canceled or things or we were on a project that look good on the drawing board but didn't work in practice. The fact that our ex-employers weren't able to show to the state that the breakup was our fault so that we'd be denied unemployment pay is proof enough that it wasn't our fault.
In fact, I've actually got a copy of state unemployment form that assigns a letter code for just about every reason you can think about for letting somebody go... and my ex-employer selected "U" for "Unknown". (Chosing not to disclose the reason would have been an "N" for "No contest".) If my ex-employer's HR department can't even figure out the reason that I was let go, that's a sign that we've got a long story here.
My answer for why they can't speak to my immediate supervisor at my past job? "I have no idea where he is. From what I was told as I was leaving, it didn't seem like he was going to have the option of staying with them for much longer either. The rest of managers at the company were happy with the level of service I was providing their departments. Letting me go was not the only debatable business decision from him that his higher-ups were scratching their heads about. I've got the number for the HR exec there on the resume, he can confirm what I just told you."
Bad luck usually is an indicator of a poor match of expectations or skills with the environment.
Consider a change in career direction. There are jobs out there, you just have to be willing to take them. We can't dictate what we are going to do in life, at least if you want to get paid well.
In terms of resume holes, I suggest you figure out ways to close them up, and embellish as much as you can without being an outright liar. Longterm out of work people are assumed to have a problem. See if you have someone who can cover for you somehow. I have asked that favor of people over time.
Try to look as good as you can, and use the economy excuse for what you can. Don't get depressed - depressed people aren't good hires.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
When he looks puzzled trying to understand what "Goatse" is, give the interviewer the URL so he can see for himself.
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
I came to a company outside of Boston in December '02, and our group was sold to a California company in February '03. THey wanted to move us out to their Palo Alto offices, but I saw no reason to join them. I've worked a contract position in Boston since last July when the buyout was completed, and I've had several interviews (and job offers since then). I really though joining the company I did in 12/02 was a smart move, and in the end it was good for what time I was there. But now I'm about to take on a Senior position at age 24 for a company in the Back Bay. I don't neccesarly think it hurt me at all.
In the current economy, it's not uncommon to have held jobs for short stints of time, and for longer stretches to occur between gainful employment. As long as you sparkle in your interview, prove that you are knowledgeable and dependable, your previous employment becomes less important in the interviewer's eyes.
I, too, have been a victim of bad luck in employment. I took a job as a game designer, and little did I know that they were trying to play super-catch up and make up for months of slacking. The publisher dropped support and massive waves of lay-offs ensued. I had only been working there three months when my employment was terminated. I've been interviewing for other positions, and the question always comes up. I consulted a friend who used to work in HR (for ten years, no less!) and he's told me on numerous occasions that without a doubt, honesty is the best policy. "It is VERY difficult to talk about a bad situation with the result being your termination. I think I would say I was laid off and leave it at that. You never want to make your former employer look bad."
So there you have it, straight from the horse's mouth. I hope this helped!
I'm ready to tell any interviewer exactly what I've done. There is NOTHING lazy about taking advantage of state benifits. It shows you knew where to look, took some of your tax money back the way it was supposed to be used and cared about your career. In fact, it's lazy and counterproductive to just take anyjob without first looking. It takes worlds of industry to fill out job applications, and cold call. By the time you are finished, everyone in the world should have seen your resume too. Many people will think I'm a pest, but no one can accuse me of being lazy.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I hate to say it, but under the circumstances, more than one short stint of unemployment isn't necessarily the mark of an unqualified candidate.
If I hadn't been so low on savings and unemployment, I would have had a three month stint a couple of years ago (instead I took the equivalent of a minimum wage job, but still technical to a degree), and then another a couple of years ago, and in both cases I really had no control.
At worst you could say my job search and marketing skills were poor. In fact that may be true, to end the stint I had a year ago I had to go through a contract company that gave my resume the marketing touch, and ultimately I performed so well the contracting company's client went to a good deal of trouble to hire me directly (thankfully) with a significant raise after about half a year. So the beginning of my stints were unfortunate, but not my fault, and the duration of the stints reflects mostly the labor market, and worst case my job-seeking/marketing skills more than technical.
Of course, despite my good standing currently, I always fear that a shutdown will happen yet again. I'm somewhat reassured because I know exactly where to go (contracting, hate it, but at the same time their marketing skills are better than mine), and were it not for this lucky coincidence past, I would guarantee it would take several months to find a new job were I to lose my current one.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
As someone currently hiring 4 positions, I can offer you this...
Be honest (about downtime in your case especially)
Don't exaggerate your achievements
Stay calm, don't bounce around in your chair
Appear interested and "aware"
Don't say "yeah" or "ok" after every sentence the interviewer says
Smile
Also, I know the IT scene is tough right now, but from the interviewer's perspective, it's hard finding good people too. We typically hire 2 to 4 IT staff each year, and finding good ones is a chore. I wish I had a dollar for every DBA interview candidate I've talked to that couldn't write a simple select statement when asked to. Bear in mind, their resume statement that they were "SQL Experts", or had x years of experience with SQL Server (yes, we're a Microsoft shop).
My Tech Posts on Twitter
I believe the following will sum up why people feel this way.
Amazon
Furthermore, I have been on few long vacations that I truly enjoyed. People in the U.S. also take advantage of 3 day weekends. With flying as cheap as it is, you fly somewhere Thursday night, and return late Sunday night. Great way to spend a weekend partying and getting some sun on the beach.
-- the computer doesn't want any beer, no matter how much you think it does. NEVER, EVER feed your computer beer.
We have been actively engaged in reviewing dozens of resumes every week for months now - Most of my colleagues and I can discern bad luck from a genuine loser. I do pay attention to the period between jobs, and usually I am turned off by people that only stay at a job for 2 years or less - however sometimes these guy's are exceptional performers and may be suitable for hire. Usually its easy to spot the prospect who is just not very good and always ends up on the lay-off A-list. In short be honest and forthright, if the employer is worth working for anyway, he'll be smart enough to be able to separate the good from the bad and you will have a decent shot. Pay attention to resume format - don't do anything weird or unusual (I really hate those), check your spelling, don't send plain text resumes via e-mail (uugh).
No matter how unfairly you believe you were treated, don't bitch and moan about it.
We had to interview one job applicant who was recently laid off. He went into this long rant about how the management were incompetent, his coworkers were retards, it was all everyone else's fault, he was the second coming of Jesus Christ and everyone was just too stupid to see it, and so on. There was also a mini-version of that same rant in his resume!
This frightening outburst was prompted by a fairly unprovocative question about what he did at his previous job.
We were left in absolutely no doubt as to why he was sacked. Why would you want someone like that around, who casts blame on everyone else at the first opportunity and behind their back when under pressure?
Hiring managers need to narrow down the prospects using any method possible. Typos and wrong names and such get you eliminated immediately. Why waste time on you if you can't use an apostrophe correctly? I've eliminated people based on the college they went to. No seriously, it's not because I'm a bi*#*#, it's because I couldn't think of any other way to narrow down 200 resumes to 20. So I was looking for any methodology possible.
One such criterion included people with too much job hopping. This is almost a double standard considering my last 6 jobs were less than a year each (avg. 7 months) for reasons mostly valid, like being laid off along with the other 40 people at the company. However, I decided I wanted one of those people who just works and never leaves... so much cheaper to deal with.
HOWEVER - if you get through that elimination process and make it to an interview, by all means, tell them the truth. If in fact your story is true. If it's not true, tell them that story - cuz it is fine.
Also tell them you are looking for a good, stable, long-term gig. In fact, if the resume isn't getting you in the door, put "...seeks long-term employment with great company..." type B.S. in your OBJECTIVE. Just make it clear you're not a job hopper without sounding paranoid.
I hire developers and I'd guess about half of the people I interview are out of work. Being laid off is often a matter of luck so that actually doesn't interest me very much. How the candidate has responded to being out of work interests me a lot. It's a chance for me to see how they have responded to a real life problem. What are they doing with their time? Do they still programme for fun? Are they keeping their existing skills honed? What are they learning to give themselves an edge?
An out of work developer who hasn't written any code for nine months is completely different from one who's putting together their own Linux distribution.
L.
I'd omit anything that is difficult to explain from your resume. In fact, instructor for the resume writing class I went to advised me not to include a job history going back more than 10-15 years, since it leads to age discrimination (yes, this means you need to omit your graduation date as well). Managers are only going to glance at your resume for 20-30 seconds, just looking for any reason to reject it. Don't give them a reason. Also, it is a good idea to rewrite your resume to show your qualifications for each individual job you're applying to. Not that I'd advise you to lie, but you need to emphasize the applicable skills and experience, and omit the inapplicable ones.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Don't make any excuses just drop it from your resume. The important thing is that your resume is the key to the door not "buying the house". If there are lots of resumes in a pile the manager will hand it to his secretary and say get rid of anyone without a qualification or who looks like a job hopper. You will never get to the person who will really make sense of it.
When you get face to face, let them know what happened and lay it on the line that you did not consider 3 weeks in a company imploding as experience, except for a personal one. Then ask them targetted questions on their ability to give you full time employment.
A deck of questions from you is the best sales point you can have. I walked into interviews and asked the hard questions, I got respect from the interviewer and I eliminated a couple of job offers because they were not what I wanted. (By the looks of it, simply "a job" is what you are after but do ask the questions!)
Try the honest approach first. If that doesn't work, throw down a smoke canister and make a hasty retreat.
Evil laugh during escape is optional.
That's what employers care about the most. Put a box in the top portion of your resume sumarizing your strengths then backup these highlights further down in point form. I'm a developer and my resume so I put things like excellent problem solver and team player in my highlights box. I have 4 sections in my resume: Software Development, Systems analysis, and education/experience. The education and experience are the smallest sections the rest is filled with all the great things I've done and can do for a potential employer. It's worked well for me. I got 3 interviews in one week using this resume format and that was after only a couple of weeks dropping it off at places.
I'm not claming to speak on behalf of everyone, but I interview a fair number of people whenever we have an opening at my help desk. I'll ask about gaps in resumes just like I'd ask about anything else. Honesty really works (well unless you have something really nasty :) ) If you were looking for work for a year - say that you are looking for a year. Assuming you have the skills to work where you are interviewing , employers are looking for personality more then anything else. How do you handle adversity? Tell it to them as a story without too much bitterness, and you've just humanized yourself to a recruiter that might see hundreds of resumes and interview a fair amount of people a day.
Make a point of always being in school or some sort of formal training. If you have a bad lapse of employment you can simply drop the employment and document the time as furthering your education or expanding your skills in school.
This also has the added benefit that it really does further your education and expand your skills.
One last point. Being in school does not imply you have to be the student. A lot of technical colleges need adjunct instructors to teach a few evening and weekend courses. Putting on your resume that you taught impresses far too many people but it works.
One from your family or the interviewer's?
I guess it would work either way...
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
Don't put anything negative or apologetic anywhere in your paperwork - resume or cover letter or follow-up note.
Just tailor your resume, etc. to indicate that you are positive about a long-term commitment. (Even if your definition of long-term and theirs differ.)
It's due to what some consider the extreme American "work ethic." Here, you are expected to work hard, all the time, preferably six or seven days a week, until you "retire" (more and more people now work during "retirement"). While this makes having "a life" difficult, it is what led to America becoming a global economic, military, and political uberpower in, what, a couple mere centuries. Old habits die hard. It is why you are lucky to get two paid weeks of vacation here, vs. six or more in some European nations.
This expected work ethic is not compatible with taking extended breaks. Being out of work is one thing... being voluntarily out of work is often seen as laziness.
On the other hand, of course, such a work ethic is, generally, a common trait of all really successful people, regardless of nationality or where they live. I guess in America, most businesses want to hire people who have the drive to be successful in life. I just wish they would accept that sometimes, success oriented people also want to pause and smell the rose.
Larry
Very simple reason. During that "gap" you might have had a job and make a complete pig's breakfast out of it. By accounting for all your time, your prospective employer has a chance to track down all your past employers and find out if you screwed up in a major way. If you have gaps all over the place, you may have just included those jobs where you didn't screw up, and left out the ones where you bankrupted the company by doing something monumentally stupid. Or you might have been in jail, rehab, or something equally unappealing to a prospective employer. So if you do choose to bum around Europe for a year, be damn sure to keep hotel and travel receipts!
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
Gap years are for before going to university. I assure you that gaps at other stages of your career, are not very accepted in the UK. Weirdly enough I ended up having to come to the US, where at least they'll occasionally accept that sometimes good people end up unemployed. I've found the UK completely intolerant - if you don't have a job, you can't get a job, simple as that.
Never forget: the purpose of a resume is to get you an interview. If you got the interview, then you know that there were no fatal flaws on your resume. If there were fatal flaws on the resume, you won't get the interview and, hense, won't be able to explain them away.
What do other Slashdot readers do to make 'bad luck' (or bad employer choices) look less bad on their resume, and sound less bad in interviews?
Why should they want to hire you if you have a history of bad employer choices? Maybe you're bad luck!
P.S. The above was, of couse, in jest... as I too consider myself one of those "whiney, tree-hugging liberals".
P.P.S. I'd sure like to figure out a way to make the word liberal lose its negative connotation...
Explain that there is massive volitility in the labor market and that you are looking for a great employer that is able to provide a stable work environment so you can get meaningful work done.
:)
Now of course, your probally jinx-ing the deal and it will all go down the tubes in 6 months.
-- dieman - Scott Dier
Work now for tomorrow you may die! To hell with actually having a life! Ok, I'm a little bitter after working my ass off to only get laid-off.
There is no spoon or sig.
There's no one right answer to this, because it (like every other aspect of hiring/interviewing) varies with who you're talking to. All of the advice in these comments is valid for someone, and invalid for others. Still, my advice:
demi
Forget about dwelling on your interview skills - because you have obviously thought long and hard about how to approach the interview - and the advice simply is; "be honest - but not TOO honest!".
The tricky part is ensuring your application lies in the list of interviews.
Remember, an HR department might see 500+ (or even 5000+ applications!) for some positions and in some locations.
Now - picture yourself as the HR person receiving this applications. 500 cover letters with resumes attached - each one with 8 pages of information. That makes about 4500 pages to read.
Sorry - if your resume/CV is longer than a SINGLE SIDE OF A4 PAPER you most likely will NOT get an interview.
I don't care how many jobs you've had or how freaking successful you are - you need to condense ALL relevant information down to a single page!
You will (of course!) in your covering letter, say something along the lines of:
Four years ago, I was looking for work, and had professional help to get my CV down to a single side of A4 paper - and since that time, I have got interviews for every single position I have applied for. I even got to play three employers off against each other to land my current position. :)
Hope this helps.
How many escape pods are there? "NONE,SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
I believe you're referring to this story.
The story discusses a service targeted for seekers as opposed to employees. Kind of like the Free Credit Report industry. The story points out some flaws but it's definitely a sign of things to come.
You're already going about it the right way. I, too have a one year gap in my Resume they has been questioned. By the time I've told them it's because I took 6 months out to travel to the USA and spend time with my fiancee (later wife), then decided to move here and it took another 3 months to get employement authorisation from the INS they're usually too interested in the story to care :-) [1]
[1] Nitpickers: The remaining 3 months where spent trying to actually find a job.
How about just being honest about your experience so I can get the job instead? I've been an out of work techie for several years. My tendency is to be honest, but that route wasn't paying the rent. I talked to some tech friends and they all told me that I had to "stretch" things on my resume if I was ever going to pay the rent again. When you are getting your food from the food pantry because your benefits have run out, being creative on your resume is a fair response to employers who are obsessed with every minute of your past work life. The stuff I've added to my resume does not turn me into some wundertechie that I am not, but it does eliminate employer questions about recent gaps on my resume. It ain't my fault that I got laid off at the start of the IT depression. I'm capable of doing all of the work associated with the positions that I apply for.
It's probable that I could still get interviews if I left the unemployment gap on my resume. My experience and previous employment are solid. But when it comes to *surviving* you have to do what you have to do to make the situation more fair for yourself. If American employers wouldn't be so uptight about employment history and focused more on the actual skills that we have, this thread would be unnecessary.
Good luck finding that job! The employers will treat you like shit during the interview process, so do what you have to do to get the job.
Tell The Truth.
There have been enough layoffs in this industry over the last twenty years, that people understand that, and it's nothing to hide.
If you don't tell the truth, and they find that out before you're higher, you will NOT get the job.
If you can project those three items, you have the best shot you will ever get at nailing the job.
I was asked in a whirl-wind style interview, literally "So I don't exactly understand why we are interviewing you. Your degree doesn't match the job openings". I then sincerely explained that, while my background is a dual degree in Chemistry/Chemical engineering, I've done imaging science the entire period of my employment. Threw in a few stories about projects I'd worked on, (You do have your "Problem, Action, Quantified Results" stories in your head, don't you???) and he accepted it.
Another asked about the layoffs and specifically why I was targetd. You *know* they are going to want to ask that question- be prepared to handle it. Don't whine. Don't Whine. DON"T WHINE! Remember that. Explain it as "We were told that seniority would count significantly during the layoff process. As I had just entered the group a year (or your case, 5 weeks) ago, when they pulled the project funding I was the newest, hence the least 'points' awarded during the deselection criteria"
Don't sound bitter- we all know you will be from the stories, and hearing 'laid off' doesn't have the stigma it once does. But dont' hide it in BS. If you present even a slightest bit, or get caught in a lie, you can kiss it goodbye. I've interviewed many a person and that is the one thing I listen for... I hear BS, you can use the resume to whipe it off the shoe.
If you went back to work for just a short while, I'd feel free to just not mention that job, and just lump that in with the period before and after, when you were "consulting". You could mention it as an example of "projects" you did while you were otherwise-out-of-work, to demonstrate that you weren't just sitting on your ass, but being a self-motivated pro-active kinda guy.
Just a random bit of advice for anyone who (like me) was singled out to be gotten rid of (for personal illegal-in-several-states reasons, for what it's worth): find a way to "launder" your resume without actually lying (which would be just plain stucking fupid). For example, go back to school, and pick up another degree or something. (If you have no income, financial aid is often available.) Sign up for the Peace Corps or something. Then put that on a chronological resume and employers may just assume you did it on purpose.
One of your jobs was 2.5 years. That's a decent stint. The other job was shorter, I guess. Why don't you, instead of listing months on a job, list, the years you worked. Like, maybe:
2003 Company 2
1999-2002 Company 1
During interview, you can explain that your projects were terminated. Or whatever. On the resume you can avoid looking suspicious by using the above method.
Don't put "BTW I WASN'T FIRED FOR BEING A BAD GUY" on your resume...
Ecce Europa - Web Design for Business
almost every company I have applied for will do at least a credit check on you. It's usually hidden in one of the forms you sign before you start to interview. Your credit record will at least mention your last few employeers. better not to leave one out, at least make up a good reason why it was so short.
"It's better to be a pirate then join the Navy"
P.P.S. I'd sure like to figure out a way to make the word liberal lose its negative connotation...
"Liberal" doesn't have a negative connotation in Canada. It is simply the name of a political party. (And its connotation depends on the current public opinion of that party.)
-a
That's a joke. Sort of. All three of the places I was laid off are pretty much gone.
Since I left my first job after grad school, I was laid off three times: Once after 7 months, once after 5 months, and once after 18 months.
I just tell them the truth: The first company had to reduce headcount to get their next round of VC funding, and I was junior. The second lost its funding due to 9/11 worries. The third had its funding cut after failing to produce a single product in over six years.
I then talk about how the changes have made me stronger. How it has forced me to learn more in less time than those who have held steady jobs. I show them how, while I worked for those companies, I consistently produced more value than I cost -- in dollars, whenever possible.
But mostly, remember that times have been tough for everyone in the tech industry. An employer who doesn't know that or doesn't take it into account is probably not worth working for.
You've got it right: Just explain it directly to them. Keep it simple, concise, and don't pass any blame. Circumstances just happen sometimes.
I've had the same question asked of me in the past. Turns out that I had moved from a one-year contract to a permanent job, which I left when I moved to a foreign country, where I stayed for two years, etc. etc.
What they're looking for is flightiness, or chronic long-term-unemployability. If you have good reasons for your shorter stints (as you do), then they'll understand that that's how the market goes.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
This is bullshit. You're advising someone to lie about a previous job to a potential employer who, if they hire him|her, may do a background check and discover the lies anyway.
I have interviewed job candidates before, and if someone were laid off from a previous job, they aren't fucking alone. It happens, and if an interviewer doesn't understand this they are not living in the real world and perhaps you're better working for someone else. Much better than getting into the habit of telling elaborate lies that will harm you later.
Just go with the truth. Anyone that has been around IT longer than a year knows that there is an artificial amount of turnaround due to the dot-com bubble blow up. It is incredibly rare to find IT people that have averaged more than 3 years per job.
The truth shall set you free. Polish up that resume and don't be embarrassed of your bad luck.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
P.P.S. I'd sure like to figure out a way to make the word liberal lose its negative connotation...
Just add an even larger "negative" to it.
Something like liberalredneck
Yes, I'm a liberal and a redneck.
Another good thing to have is a real estate license. It can cover any gaps in your resumes by saying, "I worked a project for a commercial customer." They can't press you for details because that's confidential and they can't prove or disprove it. If they do want details you can be vague and say, "Their financing fell through." Which happens all the time. Best have a genuine real estate license, though. That can be expensive to get and costs money to maintain. But I find it very liberating to always have a fall back.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
in a matter-of-fact manner. Assigned to certain project, laid off before completion. Etc. Then explain how you got another job. If you plainly explain to your employer that your job-switching was because of your employers decisions, it probably won't effect them. The more important thing is that you get jobs relatively quickly after being fired. Especially in a fast-moving field like CS, things change a lot very quickly. Once you've been unemployed for a year, people start to wonder why you were unemployed that long -- "obviously, there's a reason". You start to get shelf-life, and get stale. It shows that other employers don't want you, or that you're not actively pursuing jobs, neither of which is a good sign. Worse yet, it is a time-frame during which you can fall behind in the profession, and get rusty.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
I moved to a city and the division was closed down after two months. If you haven't done this already, get a letter of recommendation from your current supervisor and make sure it includes wording to explain that the short duration was no fault of yours.
My approach is two pronged:
1) In the short run I keep the company on my resume and use the letter of recommendation to ward off any suspicion that I job hop.
2) In the long run I plan to remove the job from the resume as I start to list start and end times in years rather than month/year.
-- Solaris Central - http://w
That will leave more jobs for the rest of us!
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
"Hello, Vandelay Industries."
My employment history is pretty solid for the first 3 years, then a patch of 3 companies in a year, and then a 3 year stint and then a 3 year stint at my current company.
A company I just interviewed with (in case the current one goes under) asked about that 1 year period and were satisfied with my responses (they made me an offer), but I don't think it will be an issue unless there is a preponderance of these "3 months on the job" additions to your resume. Not listing them could in fact be better than doing so.
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...friends get you jobs. Make friends, let them know your story, work record means nothing. Maybe 1/100 people have a job because of their unique qualifications. The rest of us have our jobs because someone decided they wanted us. ent
The purpose of the resume and cover letter is just to get you the interview.
Really this will only matter in cases where HR has such a mountain of resumes they're screening by any criteria they can think of (e.g. "This guy drinks Dr. Pepper and our machines only have Coke.") In this case your chances of getting to the all important interview are nearly nil anyway.
Your best bet is to network -- talk to friends and friend of friends, about places that might be considering hiring in the future.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I think it's drawing a long bow to say that long work hours "led to America becoming a global economic, military, and political uberpower in, what, a couple mere centuries." How about:
1. Abundant natural resources.
2. Slavery, followed by cheap immigrant labour.
3. A large population.
4. Good education.
5. Capitalism.
6. A government willing to use its muscle (military and economic) to get its way.
Working your butt off is less important than any of these.
A year ago I was laid off from my job after 2 1/2 years, shortly after the product I was working on shipped.
Took a sabbatical after successfully shipping the product.
Later that year, a company moved me 1500 miles from Texas to California, to start working on a promising project, just to have the plug pulled by the corporation that funded it five weeks later, which resulted in another layoff.
Helped guide a failed project to a close with minimal loss to the company.
Now, there's a period of job seeking followed by a five week period of employment, followed by the current job seeking period on my resume.
Took time to improve skills and consider various job opportunities.
I have used a number of these principles since beying laid off in 2002 for both finding a position with a new company and once there an internal move up the chain.
One intangible that beyond this (or maybe reading between the parent poster's lines): do whatever it takes to prepare yourself for a conversation with your interviewer. Yes, this can be hard in a question-answer-question-answer type format, but figure out how you're going to weave things into a conversation. When you engage your interviewer in a conversation they can better connect with and relate to you. It also helps them visualize what you would be like on the job - most people will want to work with others they can successfully interact and collaborate with.
Way back in the early 80's, when I was a naive little dork I let a headhunter talk me into leaving a pretty good job at Motorola for a smaller company that was growing by leaps and bounds. One thing lead to another, and three months and nine days later I was laid off, the first of ten engineers let go because the company had grown too quickly.
So I went job hunting, and it was pretty unpleasant, but eventually I found myself across the table from a guy who was hiring for a small project, and I explained that I'd been laid off. I told him I thought I'd done a great job, worked hard and helped the team, but they'd still gotten rid of me. (They went on to lay off nine more of the twelve new hires. Oops.)
It turned out he'd had the same thing done to him, and he totally sympathized with me. He saw one resume for a mechanical engineer, half a dozen for electrical engineers and several dozen for software engineers -- the position I applied for. I got the job.
So maybe it was a blessing in disguise -- I dunno -- I never want to get laid off like that again. But that job was probably the best project I worked on, because we were given a clear goal, given money to do it, and we were left alone. We produced a working eletromechanical system in 7 1/2 months, complete with high voltage system, robotic controllers and control software running on an IBM PC and an onboard 6809 processor. Sweet.
So don't sweat it -- you worked hard, you did a good job, then someone else pulled the plug. That's not your fault. Just don't sound too bitter when you tell the story -- be a little detached. Good luck.
Instead of compiling a resume, follow the advice of Ask the Headhunter's Nick Corcadilos and create a working resume: win the job by doing the job. Check out that website for the best job hunting advice I have ever seen. Read everything you can from the site, and get his book as well. He also produces an excellent weekly newsletter by email.
Best advice ever about how to stand out from the crowd, bypass the resume/job listing sinkhole and get directly to a manager who wants to hire you.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Just say that you completed the job. That is exactly what you did - you worked until the project was finished, it just wasn't shipped. If they check with your company, and you were laid off, then that is exactly what they will say - since, technically, you completed the job.
If you studied anything in the meantime, I would suggest that you say that you were increasing your job skills, and state what skills you were trying to increase.
Above all, be confident and focused. One thing that helps is to use the male "I'm interested and listening" pose - head forward, pointed at the person speaking, making eye contact. It helps if you enter the interview with the attitude that the interviewer is partnered with you in the effort to get you hired - that way you'll ask the right questions like "What do I need to show you so that you will know that I am the right candidate for the job" and "Here is how my previous experience and knowledge applies to the position you will be hiring me for".
If you find that there is no way that you can fulfill the job, ask for the interviewer's card if you know of someone who could fill it. This will give you good will with the company, and with the person you recommend. It will also give you at least one inside contact, and allow the interviewer to know that you are professional and you won't attempt to dent their car in the parking lot. (Don't laugh - I've worked next to some people who carried loaded weapons and threatened to kill their co-workers).
aking advantage of state benefits ... it does show a lack of moral character.... Admittedly, you've been brainwashed along with everyone else into thinking that taxes aren't theft, but in reality, that's what they are
I'll let you know when the benefits reach an apreciable fraction of the taxes I actually paid the year before I was canned. Don't hold your breath, though, I exhausted them about six months ago. It slowed the rate of exhuastion of my savings but not much. It helped keep me from losing my house, but the drain goes on as I've yet to land a job that pays half of what my last one did.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Well, generally, I'd say this would be a good thing to include in a cover letter. With online submission, the focus on cover letters has faded a bit, but I still think they are an important part of any job application. Most importantly, keep the letter very short and to the point, so that they actually read it. Briefly and HONESTLY explain what happened - tell them enough to not throw out your resume. A well-written cover letter also shows that you are interested in the position (i.e., not submitting 200 resumes for any job you can get - it's probably the truth in this economy, but it helps if they don't get that impression). A good cover letter won't make up for a bad resume, but if there is something on your resume that needs explaination (and personally I think getting laid-off doesn't belong on the resume itself), the cover letter may be what saves you. If you're quickly reviewing a resume, see that the applicant only worked a month in a job and don't understand why, you might be more prone to just rejecting it because there are probably plenty of other applicants that don't show any signs of a problem. If you can flip back to the cover letter and quickly scan through for some mention of what happened, you might keep the resume and ask any other questions in the interview. Of course there are exceptions (I'm sure some person will reply to this saying "I never hire people who give me a cover letter"), it has worked for me and others I know. YMMV, but it probably won't hurt to include one. Oh, and don't just copy a letter out of a book. Write a honest letter and keep it to the point. The more meaningless drivel you put in there, the less likely the letter will actually be read.
Don't whine. Don't Whine. DON"T WHINE!
Great advice. Look at it this way -- one of the main things interviewers want to know is how you will react to adversity.
If you whine about the successive layoffs (or lie about them, or rapidly change the subject), they're going to have a pretty clear picture of what you'll do when your project hits a big snag, or the customer comes back with last minute requirements: you're going to whine to everyone (even people you don't know, apparently) and drag down the morale of your team instead of doing anything useful. I guarantee this will leave a bad taste in their mouths after the interview.
Don't get tripped up because it's not an on-the-job problem. This is just as much an opportunity to prove yourself and how you respond to serious problems (the worse the better, to some extent). Take a second to discuss what happened, and what you've been doing to get back into the game. If you were creative, or if you used your downtime to learn something new, all the better. Maybe you got dropped because you were too much of a one-trick pony... so you learned a new language, and wrote a mini webserver to practice. Tell them your plan (and make sure you've put a lot of thought into it). Be frank, crisp, logical, and upbeat.
If you had to take some strange jobs to keep food on the table, that's okay. If you're uncomfortable about it, they will be too... but if you aren't, they'll probably just like you better for being pragmatic.
[And of course, if you've been sitting there in a funk for 6 months, leeching off your girlfriend and watching TV, now's the time to move your ass, kiddo.]
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
If you're spending several months looking for work, write some free software! If you are really lucky you will come up with something nice and useful and release it and your potential employers might have heard about it. In the worst case you can say, "Here's something I did recently, and you can have the source code to check it out". You probably can't say that about stuff you did at your previous jobs. Also it makes it clear that you are dedicated and enjoy programming, which counts for a lot.
There's truth in this. I went to work for Airline X and did somthing similar. My employment- while not bad -was heavily fragmented, so I felt the need to stetch the truth in some areas. It was almost a potential costly mistake as they had hired an independent firm to do background checks which found found the inconsistancies rather easily, though it took them nearly 8 weeks to start asking questions. The only way I managed to get out of that mess was to continuely put off their inquiries. While it did finally come to head, enough time had passed with enough problems in the process for the employer to finally just let go.
In otherwords, I got lucky. Of course it didn't help that I was applying for a terrorist targeted industry (doh!), but if they can do it, so can your potential employer. Employ the parents tactics with due caution, if at all.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
...early '80s, bad economy, and the "reason for leaving" part of my last four jobs were: employer went under, employer bounced paychecks on me repeatedly, employer declared bankruptcy, and project ended.
I was interviewing with a prospective employer who looked this over and said, "Looks like you've had a run of bad luck."
"You could look at that way," I said. "But I think it might have been how I was choosing my employers." I explained to him how I was very good on some outmoded equipment, and maybe the reason I was picking so many losers was because I was looking for people who were using equipment that might suggest they didn't know what they were doing. (I had already learned that he did not use that equipment.)
Then I told him why I thought the equipment he was using was better (big difference: it had these things called "hard drives"), why I thought that was the future of the industry, and why I wanted to learn how to use it. Then I asked him some straightforward questions about his business, which he was able to answer quite confidently.
I explained that I was willing to work at trainee's wages on this better equipment even though I had several years of experience (if I had the chance to work at a well-run business). He was so complimented by my willingness to work for him (once I had explained that I was looking for a better employer) that he offered me 12 percent more than I asked for. A few years later I moved out west. A few years after that the "project ended" company moved to the same city. They offered me a great job, and I worked with them for a few years. Then they went under, and I started my own business by picking up a few of their customers and made a million bucks.
Anybody who tells you to lie is a fool. State the truth in the most positive light you can put it and hope for the best.
You don't want to work for anyone who would hold your situation against you, anyway.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
I guess it's more common culture to actually keep a job, but just read /. all day.
Sound a lot like double entendre to me. Logic tells us that interpretation implies an enherant dynamic nature and since the job of The Court is to interpret the Consitution as it applies to the cases before it... I see no other way for them to perform their duties.
In other words... if there were no "dynamic" interpretation (as you call it) then there would be no need for The Court whatsoever.
It sounds more like you're merely bitter over a handful of decisions that you didn't agree with. Trust me, there are plenty of cases that went the other way as well.
I read a lot of resume's, and this sort of stuff is very common...particularly during the dotcom boom/bust. I really don't pay attention to the history so much any more (as job loyalty and employer stability has been blurred with other less fortunate outcomes) and I really focus on someones character, attributes, and contributions.
These things all promote your experience and talk a lot more about someone than what an employer can reasonably gather from the employment history.
Goals are deceptive - the unaimed arrow never misses.
Noone else who worked with me still works there so I can't use them for reference either
Who says you can't use them? My last 3 companies don't even exist. That doesn't mean I don't have any references. Give out the names of those you worked with regardless of whether they still work there. If the prospective employer wants to verify that you actually worked there, they will call HR, not your old boss.
Not take your unemployment benefits when you're laid off? Not take the public highway? And not a buy a house unless you have 100% of the cash for it?
Remember, those last two items are heavily subsidized by the State. You may not have bought a house lately, but I'll assume you're using the public road infrastructure? Right? Doesn't that make you a parasite as well?
Pretty much nothing in my place comes from the US. It is all from Japan (NB:I live in Japan.)
Secondly, the original poster was speaking about becoming a power in a mere couple of centuries. Well a good part of that was fueled by slavery. Now it is being fueled by what has replaced slavery, the idea that you have to sacrifice your quality of life to satisfy the "Work Ethic." It makes me wonder...who are you actually working for if you sacrifice your life to the point you cannot enjoy the fruits of your labour?
(this is very diluted; inaccuracies are for clarity)
In "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism," Weber noted that the idea of a "calling" in many Protestant churches when coupled with an ingrained frugality almost inevitably led to the accumulation of wealth. So by dutifully serving one's calling, he couldn't help but amass a respectable fortune. Wealth became an indicator for- or at least coreqisite to- piety; "work" in America retains this character so dogmatically adopted by its puritan heritage.
(this is one of the reasons Europeans simultaneously dislike Americans for their materialism and religious zeal, a dichotomy Americans dismiss as a contradiction)
Social institutions in Europe were largely Catholic for centuries; what Nietzsche called a "philosophy of death" (for promoting behavior contrary to the interests of the organism) ironically provides some mitigating forces on the "pursuit of interest." Taking a year for yourself is more than laziness or sloth; to Americans, it borders on blasphemy.
There's an old saying, largely out of fashion: "The Protestant eats well; the Catholic sleeps well." Replace the former with "American" and the latter with "European," and we might modernize it.
It's not a negative reflection on you: in fact, it's a reflection that you're willing to take on the employer's best interests: the fact that they dumped you after 5 weeks seems like poor planning on their behalf. Just describe it like it is.
"During the interview, have many, many questions." Very important. Have a list of questions ready. "How do you prioritize between social skills and technical skills when you hire someone?". "How is the company doing?". "What sorts of pension funds and health insurance do you offer to your employees?". "Do the employees socialize outside job functions?". That sorta thing.
This will look good to the potential employer - you are prepared, and you are also signalling that you are interested in finding a company that is right for you. It is also good for you, since you can often tell from the reply whether this is a good employer or not.
Stop the brainwash
Look, there's no need to apologize for what you've done if you haven't done anything wrong. Projects get cancelled... it's what happens in this line of work. Put down your relevant work experience, including that cancelled project if it's relevant. If/when it comes up in an interview, simply explain that the project was cancelled due to circumstances well beyond your control (assuming that's true) and that you're looking for an employer with somewhat more solid prospects. Tell them flat out that you're looking for an employer with more solid prospects than your last one, and ask them a question or two about the outlook for their business (in a completely interested, polite, and professional way, of course).
It's part of life. Either you're going to succeed or you won't. Either they're going to extend a job offer to you or not. Honestly, I think the decisions are made long before you even walk in the door.
I've tried everything. I've tried tailored resumes. I've tried semi-tailored resumes. I've tried generic resumes. I've tried sending out to hundreds of companies. I've tried sending out to a large set of specialized companies (a few years later). I've tried applying only to a particular class of position (most recently). I've tried being gently honest. I've tried being brutally honest. I've tried sweeping the unpleasantries under the rug. I've tried ignoring the fact that unpleasantries exist. I've tried being casually conversational. I've tried being strictly businesslike. I've tried a gentle mix of the two. I've tried the dedicated employee approach. I've tried the all-around human being looking for a life approach.
I think you get the point.
Honestly I really feel that, whatever the laws are (like, really, what are you going to do about it? hire a lawyer? if you're looking for a job you can't afford a lawyer), corporate human resource departments do all of their checking, cross-checking, contacting, counter interviewing, and astrological spreads the moment they see your resume. Once that piece of paper is in their hands they call anyone and everyone that they can.
Here's a tip: Human resource departments have national databases just like any other department or industry. It may be brutal but employees are a commodity. I wouldn't be surprised if, at a given level and in some form, employees are traded around like stocks and bonds. One could set up a system of brokers and distributers. Sometimes a broker will land a job for a known bad employee just to ship a block of more profitable employees someplace else.
So just be yourself. Show up at the interview prepared with the properly evasive answers. They ask what happened at the last job you look them straight in the eye, nonchalantly, and say "It didn't work out." No more, no less. The interviewer will try to stare you down. Stare back. Don't stare back antagonistically. Stare back like he could tell you to die on the spot and you wouldn't give a good g--d--n. Blink once or twice, about 15-20 seconds apart. If he presses the issue you need to have several properly evasive answers ready. Keep them at one line each to let him know that he's not going to get anywhere with the topic AND that he's not going to provoke an emotional response from you. Prove to them that you're willing to leave it all in the past and move forward.
So don't sweat it. If your last employer screwed you over big-time (*ahem* 46607 L460r4+0r|3s), you're broke, $50k in debt, homeless, and spent the last 3 months camping in the Yukon for lack of any better ideas, that's just the way life goes. I've been there. Financially, I'm still there. I have an employer again (finally) and if they piss me off, bust my balls, or if I don't meet their corporate standards then I have no problems walking down the highway with my thumb out again. That's the attitude you need to keep because, if you don't, you're going to spend the rest of your life jumping from one small company to the next where the CEO sees you as nothing more than a sack of meat to put his next product on the market. He gets fat, you get the shaft, and the next HR rep you interview with browbeats you with what you don't know.
Sometimes that's just the way life goes.
Steven
+++ATHZ
+++ATHZ 99:5:80
Fuck if I know what to put on a resume to cover lack of work. My reason for being out of work for almost a year always seemed to be met with a certain amount of Skepticism by the interviewer. With a degree in engineering and more certifications than I could mention, I finally gave up. Afte a nasty lay-off and a long period of not being able to find a job, I finally gave up on tech. I was sick of sitting in interviews and having to explain why I was out of work so long. I would interview for jobs which were a $10k cut in pay from my last job and I was overqualified but still get rejected. Most other jobs wanted people who could fix all of the companies computers while solving advanced calculus and washing the CEO's car. After a dozen interviews which all resulted in rejection letters, I finally changed careers. I'm now in sales and making more money than any single shithead who sent me a rejection letter when I was out of work. I've finally found a career which involved getting paid for your work and not making someone else rich while getting shit on by a boss. If I want to pick up my wife for lunch tomorrow, I won't have to worry that I only have a 30 minute lunch break. No more fuck up dead end projects being dumped in my lap on a Friday afternoon. "Oh, I missed spending the weekend with my family so I could work on this and now it's no longer a priority?". My favorite is that I don't have to hear anymore bullshit about no raises because of lack of funds while the higher ups get raises. If I want a raise, I call more people. Life is good.
To any company that has a full time HR department, it looks like you got hired after a long time of being a bum then didn't work out. And you didn't work out very quickly. HR people that read it that way will never even let the tech people see your name on a list.
HR departments aren't there to hire new people, they are there to filter. Can you trust your HR dept to filter? Thats why most good fortune 500 jobs are through contacts. Joe in IT tells the HR guy "we have a new position that going to open up and we want to hire Bob because we know he can do it".
Nothing on your resume is bad until you make it sound bad. Simply explaining the situation is the best thing you can do, even better if you can show how you learned/benefitted from it, or how it gave you an opportunity to adapt to change.
Whining or assigning blame is the worst.
Most folks seem to have commented on the resume, but not on the interview, so I'll mention that.
Cutting through all the crap, interviews come down to just three things.
1. Do you want it?
2. Can you do it?
3. Will you fit in?
To re-introduce some of the crap...
1. Do you want it?
An employer wants to be sure you're actually interested and willing to commit to the company.
2. Can you do it?
They need to know that you are capable of doing the job they have in mind. Note that the job spec and the real job are two different things, so part of the interview process is where you help them by explaining what they're looking for (i.e. describe the job in terms of your skills and experience).
3. Will you fit in?
This is THE important one... bear in mind that assuming they've gone to the expense of getting you in for an interview you've pretty much convinced them of 1 and 2 already.
In the long term, your integration will affect your motivation to stay, your capability to do the work, and you'll also affect these factors in the other employees.
So, if the interviewer doesn't like who you appear to be, you can pretty much forget it.
However, if you've had some bum luck with employers, it just doesn't matter. If you're pissed offdisappointed because of your redundancy, it's OK to show it: it illustrates that you'd committed to a job but the management, or the board, or the economy, or an infinite number of factors outside of your control screwed things up for you; and yet, you're still fighting, covered in crap and smelling terrible, but you've not given up.
Now *that*, for an employer is a jigsaw-completing quality - determination and spirit are invaluable. Show this at an interview and your redundancy just got you your next job.
boakes.org
I can telly you from sitting on the employer side of the interview table that 99% of candidates have had bad luck. If they had good luck, they would not be looking for a job at age 45! Most interviewers know this and so they are trying to sort out the good people from the people that have bad luck for a reason. As you seek your job:
* Remember that everyone else has had bad luck!
* Figure out how to stand out from the other hard luck cases. Highlight your involvement in the community or using your time to help your family.
* Practice your story and make sure you accentuate the positive - what you got to do, etc. Be good an answering the hard questions.
* GET REFERENCES FROM THOSE SHORT TERM EMPLOYERS!
In the end, getting a job is easy:
* Have passable resume
* Get interview
* BE ON TIME AND LOOK GOOD!
* Sell yourself and don't game people by lying or embellishing the truth
* ASK FOR THE JOB!
* FOLLOW UP!
* Did I mention, FOLLOW UP!
-- $G
Here's how you should behave at a job interview. It's guaranteed to get you the job. ... I'll need to check on that about 50 years later. ....
(C = company guy, YOU = you).
YOU: I've come here to save this company!
C: ??!?? What makes you think our company needs to be saved?
YOU: Well, it's obvious that it's going down, because you don't have ME on your staff yet...
C: (smiling) That's an interesting point. And how do you think you can save this company? Do you have any skills that might be suitable for this position, any special qualities?
YOU: There are very few skills that I don't excel at. In fact, I can't think of anything that I can't do. I'm not sure about eternal life, though
I also have a lot of qualities that you've been dreaming to see in your employees.
C: Hmm.. Interesting... What are those?
YOU: One of my main qualities is modesty.
C: Aha...
YOU: Being so modest, it's hard to talk about my modesty. But just wanting this job proves how modest I am. Indeed, I could try harder, I could find something better than this company, with more potential and smarter management, but I don't need much... you know, as the saying goes: The pleasure is in the small things.
C: Ok, you've made your point. What else can you do, besides being modest ?
YOU: Lots of things. I can program by dictating the hex, binary or octal instruction values to a typist while having sex. For any processor.
The only bug I've made was not a software bug at all, it was an error in the processor I've assembled from beach sand while on vacation.
Of course I can also program the Sissy way...
C: The Sissy way ?
YOU: Yeah, you know... C and the like. Writing in C is an insult to my intelligence, so I just main(){__asm{}} and start reciting the raw code values. It's poetry. And poetry it is: 5, 5, 5; 2c; 25. I'm even thinking of starting a hip-hop band.
O well, IT is only one of my specialties.. I can also chop trees, fly assault helicopters, perform brain surgery, investigate crimes, take care of things...
C: !!! Take care of things ?!
YOU: Yeah, you know... Burry people, track down customers, clean up, you name it.
C: OK! You are just what we're looking for!
Welcome to the team!
As a lot of tech people have, you'd think this wouldn't be a big issue when interviewing. Afterall, you've made it as far as the interview, so obviously there's something on your resume to warrant the interview.
What I've done in the past is honestly explained what transpired. People are human, and can relate.
Now, had you been removed from the company property under security escort and barred from ever returning to company property, then you'd have a problem explaining the situation.
The trick is to come across as human. Don't bitch about how they moved you 1500 miles and then laid you off (not saying you do).
I've been the victim of layoffs at three places in the last 4 years - one at Dell when the bubble popped (I was a contractor in transition to full-time and didn't get hired on before it popped) and two other places -- one that closed completely and the other that went from 200 employees to under 10.
I managed to land an interview at my current place of employment (we're wholly owned by an insurance company, so there's oodles of money here) and beat out 200 other candidates for my position. When asked, I was honest about what happend to cause the blemishes on my resume and repeatedly stated I was looking to stay at my next place of employment for at least 5 years (if not longer). Apparently that meant something -- My 2 year anniversary is this next September.
So, be honest, be sincere, and ensure them that the layoffs were no fault of action or inaction on your part.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
I list it accurately and tell the truth about it if asked. That means I have job endings including a pre-IPO start-up I bailed from when I spotted the vultures circling, one I left because of lousy management, one I left because of incredibly poor IT infrastructure, some because of layoffs due to economic downturns, getting declared "redundant" after a merger, a couple of "project was cancelled", and some "project had a sudden goal change and I was no longer a good fit".
No one has been upset to see them, nor have they questioned the wisdom of my actions.
If asked about "are there any positions you left off your resume, I say "Yes, either because it was short and irrelevant just to pay bills, or because I have no wish ot EVER do it again and if it's on the resume I keep getting asked to do it". Again, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
My resume is functional rather than chronological. I don't have gaps to cover up, I just have a lot of similar experience across years and jobs. It makes no sense to restate it repeatedly. Granted, I didn't think of this myself. My wife is a professional resume writer, so I had just a bit of help.
I am an American, I hear all the crap all the time about how people might have been disloyal or otherwise screwed up a job. I hear from employers this stuff about cost of employment etc
The problem with me believing any of it is just this. I have been an employer and I know what the game is. Employers are being horses asses. Rather than actually being loyal and team players they are trying to run slaves. They view anybody who does anything other than work all the time as trouble. In actuality they have no loyalty to workers what so ever. What they are seeking is a position of Extortion over them.
The sad fact is that it has nothing what so ever to do with earning a living or profit etc. It is in fact very counter productive. But then it is just like their obsession over holidays and vacations
Europeans and Auzies love their holidays etc. They produce just as much and have fun doing it. The Americans are in a death race. (I from and in the USA) Our productivity is rising dramatically 12.5% this year. Our wages are dropping and our employment is dropping. If we continue this much farther nobody here will have a job. We have to go to higher Vacations and Holidays etc just to keep our economy from collapsing from OVER SUPPLY OF GOODS.
For those economic types who don't get it. Production can grow about 3% per year (against population) and be absorbed into the economy without displacements. If it grows faster than that the whole process then locks into a ratio of the Productivity Wages &population. In 2004 with 12.5% productivity growth and 3.5% population growth with a 3% slack the system got over pushed by 6.5% and the wages per person in the USA dropped by about 5.5% (See the US IRS Tax data if you doubt this.) The remaining slack of 3 years of this charged up over supply of goods came out in the near 50% slide in the value of the dollar and rising unemployment.
The solution here is to either print enough money for the goods to be taken up (Which will go into the unearned income of the CEO's) or to raise the wages of the working people or to increase their benefits such as holidays.
Raising wages or giving benefits actually ups company earnings because the market gets better. The problem here is that companies don't want employees to actually be free to enjoy their life. Sorry but Americans need to wake up to the reality here. (Look at CEO Pay if you doubt the ability to finance this exists)
Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
I had a weird experience with a first and only headhunter that I ever used. I did get the job but I think my so called trusty headhunter might have lied to get me into the position. I originally gave him my one page resume but during my second interview with the company, I noticed that one page has magically transformed into a seven page resume. Needless to say I did get an offer and I accepted it. As soon as I shook hands with the CFO who handed me the offer, he went into a 5 minute speech saying that I should have submitted a one page resume instead of a seven page resume. I was pretty shocked and scared during this second interview not knowing what this clown headhunter did to my resume. As a endnote, I did stay with the company for two years. The management was terrible but overall it was a good experience.
The only terrible thing the company did to me was reneged on their promise in paying for my IT Training and education. The CFO has final say in all these types of spendings so he went back on his word and HR wouldn't do anything about it. Some of the other management lifers who have been in the company 25+ years so what was happening to me and strongly suggested that I hire an attorney to deal with this joker. I was into the lawsuit trend so I went off and did the training on my own. I even went as far as going for my silly MS certs. I was accused of studying on the job which kinda was the last straw for me. Once I got all my idiotic certs, I decided to start looking for another job. Fast forward three years. The company was bought out by another huge company and at the end the company was shutdown for not making enough money. I was glad to get out of there when I had the chance.
After being in the workforce for almost 10 years, I found a lot of position with wrong job requirements. One job that I actually applied for stated flat out that you need to be a certified Novel engineer. I was pretty surprised that I got a call back since I had zero experience with Novel. I was even more surprised that I was hired for the position and that the company didn't even have a single Novel box in the building. It turns out that some clueless HR Drone padded up the wanted add with industry buzzwords. So don't be afraid to apply for a position even if you don't qualify for every listed req.
Easy answer... cater your resume to make it past screeners. Resume submissions are usually at least preliminarily sorted by HR people, then passed onto the hiring managers. Occasionally, if the manager is too busy they might pass a few off to their staff (team leads, etc.) to at least filter out yes or nor.
So, the question is then... at each step along the way, will they care about gaps? Two tricks I use: Just provide years but not months (ok for multi-year jobs), or provide a line item like January 2001-November 2002: Assorted consulting engagements. Then list a few of companies and positions as bullet points under that.
Now, for the interview, be prepared to answer questions about how you've spent your time. Make sure to cater the positions you are going to talk about to what is most important for the job, or most interesting to the interviewer. By this point, you will hopefully be impressive enough with your skills, experience, and manner that a spotty employment history with legitimate explanations (but not too much, definitely don't harp on it or point it out if not asked) will still get you hired.
I'm generally in favor of lying (at least exageration) on resumes... [joke: What does resume mean in French? Big Lies!] but companies now doing background checks will be able to find major lies. If filling out a job application (usually accompanied by a background check approval form), make sure you fill it out as acurately as possible. And make sure that can at least be compared to your resume. A lot of times applications will only ask for the 3 most recent employments. As long as those match your tax forms then you should be good to go.
Hope that helps!
--D
Frankly, after about ten years experience very few companies want to hire you. Reasons:
1. They think you're too expensive
2. They think you will be a hard-ass
3. They think they can't control you, because you have been around the block and know the corporate bullshit. Which is true.
4. You are no longer idealistic and won't work OT much
5. You are smarter than the hiring manager, and he knows it
6. Your name is to easy to pronounce
7. If you were laid off and couldn't find a job in this crappy economy, then you must be really bad person.
8. Old people (over 40 maybe 35 these days) are lucky they are allowed to breathe.
9. You'll be bored.
10. Corporate medical insurance premiums raise drasticly with more older workers. (VERY TRUE AND COMPANIES HIRE BASED ON IT)
I'm an employer. Honesty matters. You've done nothing to be ashamed of. Tell the truth. If you get caught in anything less than the total truth, then you probably won't be trusted ever again - despite any *good* explanation you have for your previous prevarication.
I did several recruitments "gigs" for several companies. I don't like lies. Trust is important. If you lie, I could imagine if you work in my company. You'll do bigger lies.
It's not your fault that you had bad luck. or, was it your fault that made the previous companies went under? If it was not your fault, then you shouldn't worry. Just relax.
Cheers.
-- b