Slashdot Mirror
A First Look At The GIMP 2.0
An anonymous reader writes "Brice Burgess has given everyone a good peek at what's coming in 2.0 for the GIMP in his review over on NewsForge. Don't like the old UI? It's gone. All new. There have also been megawumpus improvements in the text tool. Brice says he sees some room for improvement still, but overall he is "very impressed."" (Slashdot and NewsForge are both part of OSDN.) The new text tools are a big step up, though the interface as a whole remains a love-it-or-hate-it thing.
And still at the same low price! How do they do that?
The Spoon
Updated 6/28/2011
"Bring out the gimp..."
"But the gimp's prelease."
Well I guess you're just gonna have to go CVS him now won't you."
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
Are any of these features NOT copied from PhotoShop?
-- People who hate Windows use Linux. People who love UNIX use BSD.
Let me just say that you WILL NOT be disappointed.
It's amazing all the new features, even just the small little useability things, that were added.
Watch out PHOTOSHOP!
Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate. Ex-O'Reilly/MIT employee, now a full-time Google employee.
Looking at the pictures, the old GUI is hardly "gone". It's changed a little bit, and they've added docking capability. Great.
Great tool, but the GUI makes it difficult to find things, IMO. I was hoping for something more from a "new" GUI.
So, does it finally have mouse pointers like Photoshop, that are the size of the currently selected brush so that you can actually see how big an area you are affecting?
i'm sure some Gimp diehards will start complaining the change of GUI, and how 'difficult' it is to get used to the new GUI :)
I was pleased to read in the blurb that the interface was improved. Looking at the screenshot, though, it doesn't seem overhauled, it seems refined. Looks like the interface still is not too great.
"I've got to stop masturbating! It makes me too lazy! Stop it, Albert. Stop it." -- Albert Einstein
Ah, another fine newspost that leaves it to the pretty icon to explain what the hell the thingy in discussion actually is.
What about people browsing with images turned off, you insensitive clods?!
Anyway, the GIMP is the GNU Image Manipulation Program. It's a dandy freebie Photoshop for Linux and other platforms, dude.
Why show the whole desktop (complete with terminal windows and task bars) that is 66% dead space when showing off one app that isn't a task bar or a terminal window?
Bad advocacy and then some.
Beep beep.
The UI is still clunky and cluttered looking, but overall GIMP is an amazing program for the right price. It may never be a substitute for Photoshop, CAD or Illustrator, but for the weekend graphics hacker who doesn't have 600 dollars, this is a step in the right direction.
IAALS.
I was just today commenting on how every application would be improved by using Microsoft Office style non-buttons in its interface.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Will this release have a compatible gimp-print plugin?
GIMP without the GIMP Tool Kit. I don't think you'll be seeing that any time soon.
I see they didn't go with an MDI-style interface. Having independently floating windows makes GIMP practically unuseable, unless it's the only program running... [grumble]
I know im gonna get marked troll, but I really would like the option of having the gimp ui as one cohesive window with moveable panels instead of 50 windows I cannot keep track of. I think there's a reason why there arent any other applications I can think of that use that layout anymore. They have all switched the the single window approach. It may not be as powerful or whatever, but it sure is easier for some of us folk. And no, I dont know enough to submit a patch and yes, I realize that the software is free.
Tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt --Abraham Lincoln
Why not save yourself a gazillion bucks and export it into the excellent (and Free) Sodipodi.
It's a fantastic vector graphics editor, one that reminds me slightly of Draw on the old Acorn, but more powerful.
Beep beep.
I have been waiting , obviouslly in vain for a version of the gimp to come out with REAL CMYK capablities. I personally know of about 10 people I worked with that would jump on the Gimp bandwagon. WHY in gods name hasnt this been implemented yet ?
Been using Photoshop for over 10 years. Hard to get out of that comfort zone. Been using Gimp for some stuff lately and kinda like it.
Wake when there are gigawumpus improvements.
(Did I use that properly? Should I be ashamed?)
I'm sure the screenshots at Newsforge would be more impressive if the guy didn't have the ugliest desktop I've ever seen. I mean, a green background?
It should be noted that when you are trying to convince people that something is good, it helps when it also looks good.
Now, sure you can abstract the green theme (is that guy colorblind? maybe he likes red?) and see the improvements in the GIMP, but still. It just doesn't look very professional.
Treehugger? Treehugger... Treehugger!
Can anyone tell me what the OSX-ish dock thingamabobber at the bottom of the screenshots is?
10b||~10b -- aah, what a question!
Docking doesn't count as "all new" re: the GUI.
Really, the fact that all tools are under a single window hasn't seemed to hurt the Adobe family of products from being wildass popular. So what, other than being different for the sake of being different, is the point? Copying popular Windows/Mac apps isn't a bad thing if it is what people really like about the user experience.
Folks seem to like the "one window to bind them" approach. Additionally I (and probably others) can't stand to use GIMP with its bazillion windows cluttering my taskbar (as it gets in the way of quickly ALT-TABing throug different apps).
Also, would it kill them to mirror the prebuilt binary/installer packages on a machine larger than a Casio calculator? I spend more time trying to get Gimp on Windows than using it.
Ok... that's it... #def rant 0.
What is music when you despise all sound?
Within a few weeks of encountering the GIMP, I prefered its interface to that of PhotoShop. Since a lot of people obviously (and vehemently disagree), well ... No accounting for taste :) However, if you use:
...)
/WM set to auto-raise, focus follows mouse. This lets all those little interface boxes sit wherever you'd like and pop up with a swipe of the mouse.
:)
a) Virtual Desktops, as many as you'd like (one per active image, perhaps? Or a "GIMP" desktop, not so bad either
b) Your DE
Works for me, anyhow
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
"There has also been megawumpus improvements int the text tool."
;)
But apparently not megawumpus improvements in spelling/typing
ok, I'll be the first to admit that a lot of people won't agree with me, but I know of plenty of others that definitely will.
I'm not a Photoshop user. I use the Corel line of products. Why? Corel puts everything into one window. I'm aware of the pains in programming an interface, but I don't understand why a separate option isn't there for the rest of us?
Please?! If only the Gimp was like this, I would use it. It would be a learning curve, but I could do it. Instead, I have to make sure I have enough room on my desktop to fit all the tool windows I need, along with enough space to view the image I'm manipulating at a size bigger than 40x40. y'know? Every time I give the Gimp a try, I'm impressed with the features, but not impressed with the interface.
I just can't use it. "It's hopeless... utterly, utterly, hopeless."
but palletted drawing in The Gimp remains superior to Photoshop. Photoshop was neither designed nor marketed towards any of the markets that do pallete based art/graphic design.
It feels better I would say. I like the docking feature, and many people will like the fact that the menu is in the window now (you do not have to right-click). Better text tool allso.
A toolbar button to download the next upcoming Fark Photoshop contest.
When I first took a look at GIMP several years ago, the first thing that turned me off was all the seperate palettes are treated as apps. Saw the same thing in Sodipodi and Inkscape. Seemed that it was the trademark for open-source drawing applications. Didn't like having 5-6 tasks on my taskbar for just one app. On inkscape, if I mistakenly close the last image, the whole app closes down.
All I want are dockable or floating palettes that use a small font size(ie not screen hogs) just like PSP, Photoshop and illustrator use.
And on a second note, I don't wish to see my desktop peep through. A big gray dull background would be less distracting. I've grown way too used to MDI in Windows apps to comfortably use the open source SDI way.
Mod me down for said redunant comments.
I like the way you can select the colour sampling in jpeg compression (4:2:2 4:4:4 etc) nice touch. It really really really really really really needs adjustment layers like photoshop at the very least, without adjustment layers you might aswell be painting on a real canvas in terms of later adjustability. I can live with out plug-in/filter previews although you could technically add that ability automatically without even needing to modify the current plug-ins - just make the plug-in work with a second version of the image while clicking ok would apply the plugin and imeadiately re-launch the window for tweeking.
If you then added a way of remembering the settings of that particular plug-in on a layer you could add the ability to go back at any time and adjust a plug-in/layer and have that adjustment filter through to the current image - that alone would out-do photoshop!!
Adjustability is what its all about, anyone else with me?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Ha! on this screenshot, I notice that they have the all imporant toilet paper template... a must have. :)
If my enemy's enemy is my friend, what happens if my enemy is his own worst enemy?
The gimp is a fine project as projects go, but it seems to me that there are a few things gimp needs before it will be able to really compete with Photoshop
First off, brushes, Photoshop 7 has a great brush system, being able to combine brushes is great. Photoshops size, color, shape dynamics as well as jitter control via pen preassure and tilt are great.
This brings up point number 2
This is just from my experience, but getting GIMP to work with a pen/tablet is like pulling the teeth of a grumpy aligator, it's just not worth it. I have a wacom tablet that supposedly works with drivers from the wacom linux project, although I can get it to work as a mouse in X, I have had 0 luck getting it to work with gimp
The last thing is a UI improvment
I haven't used the new version yet, and its hard to tell from the screenshots, but GIMP has some major usability problems when working with multiple layers, history editing, and things of that nature. I think the multiple document interface is a good thing, and the tool selection window is not bad, but having to right-click on the document to get the standard utility menus is a pain in the rear.
Because of the afore mentioned problems I have not used GIMP extensively for actual work, instead I photoshop on my mac, but it seems to have a solid painting engine underneath it, and many of the filters are better than those available for photoshop, even if some of them are a little to flashy.
All that said, I do graphics professionally and so perhaps I just put more demand on an application than the average user, but right now gimp seems like just a nice toy untill they get some of that stuff fixed.
I do prefer to use Open Source software when possible and wait eagerly for the day when GIMP or another project is a usable alternative to Photoshop, and I will be sure to give this new release a go, but I think we may still have a while to go.
Off Topic but, if anyone has had luck getting a Wacom tablet to work under Linux with GIMP and can let me know how to do so as well I'd love to know.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
I take it you're not a member of the development team then? I never understand where people get off criticizing OSS solutions because it doesn't do some random thing you want. The code is all there - if you want a native Cocoa version, get coding.
:)), but I can't code my way out of a wet paper bag and am just greatfull for having the tools I have.
Sure there are things, I'd _LIKE_ done to some of my favorite OSS projects (plug for GNUCash 2.0 to get finished
Oh and gimp 2.0pre2 works fine on my G4 at work now that I've installed yellow dog. YMMV.
and many people will like the fact that the menu is in the window now (you do not have to right-click)
Hah! I spit on your menu! That was the first thing I turned off, in fact -- I find the right-clicking to be the best part of the gimp's interface; it provides convenient, quick, and easy access to basically everything. It's probably my number-one wish when using Photoshop that it had a similar right-click menu.
I view the Gimp as a very extensible, flexible program.
That being said, it's completely unusable for long periods of time by a guy who, admittedly, is NOT a graphic artist.
I use graphics programs like secretaries use computers. I want it to do what I want it to do, I don't want to know why, I don't want to know when, and I sure as hell don't want to have to spend a half hour figuring out HOW to do something. Ever tried to do something like a inner bevel in Gimp? I'm sure it can be done, but for the life of me I can't figure it out. And that, to me, is a failure of the program for users such as myself.
Maybe you graphics types find it just fine, but it certainly doesn't work for us reg'ler folks.
Blog,Twitter
You can output to CMYK in gimp2 with an ICC profile, but you can't edit CMYK directly. Gimp is still 1 and 3 band 8 bit only.
To that, I'll remind you that your Linux window manager probably has multiple desktops. It sounds incredibly stupid for its simplicity, but once you realize it, there's absolutely no problem with the interface.
I'll also encourage you to use 0x808080 or something similarly neutral for the background on that desktop. You'd be surprised how much the surrounding noise can affect the way you work. I even go to the extent of making all my window decorations a soft grey when I'm drawing up stock schemes or otherwise doodling.
Dude, they wrote the software, it's up to other people to package it and make it easy.
There's no problem with a bunch of people donating time chosing not to support a platform, and they make it easy for someone who _does_ want to support the platform by releasing the code - all that would be required is converting GTK calls into Aqua calls and reimplimenting the libraries.
In the meantime they gave you a working solution (install GTK etc - which then gives you access to ALL gtk apps, not just this one) - and you have the temerity to bitch about it?
Beep beep.
I don't understand why anyone would want a box covering the very thing they're working on. Is there some option to make it that way, or customize it - say 'Adobe 7' or 'Corel 4.5' profiles?
I use Photoshop more than 10 hours a day - if Gimp wants users, it should make it easy for Photoshop users to migrate with as little adjustment as possible. Why would I want to throw my years of PS experience away? Adjustment is necessary, but not full-blown re-education.
And here's the deal: if you obnoxious Linux zealots keep responding to points like this with "d00d install linux u l00s3r" and comments about how stupid windows users are, you will continue to miss the point that Linux will survive by gaining mindshare and marketshare, and this will not happen if the majority of Win32 people (yes there are lots of them that don't love Win32, but they like to be productive) have the idea that "wow, the OSS tools on Linux are really hard to use". And that's the impression people get. I would think that if they go to the effort of building and releasing binaries on Win32, they could add some MDI support so people could actually find the product useable without burning through their ALT and TAB keys. My left hand is sore after ever GIMP session on my Win32 box, and I feel like I spend half my time minimizing/restoring windows to try to find the right ones. This is a problem, period. Many solutions, but a good one would be to support MDI, like nearly every other windows app in the world.
would be to have most things accessible in one panel which can be hidden and revealed with the space bar. TV Paint was like this and you could use almost the entire screen for drawing instead of a dinky Window.
Does anyone know if v2 will support floating point or 16-bit image formats? We in the CG business could use a quality non-8bit paint package and properly supporting finer bit-depth data would go a long way towards making Gimp a standard production tool.
gimp16 looked promising, but it never went anywhere. Photoshop's 16-bit implementation is pretty weak; it can read it, but can't write it in any format other than a photoshop file and (last time I checked), it still only painted in 8-bit.
Us Mac owners only have one mouse button, you insensitive clod!
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Wumpus: Big, heavy, VERY stinky (smells 2 rooms away), slow (rarely moves), thick-skinned (needs several arrow hits, doesn't care about bats), ravenous (eats you as soon as you enter his room) and rather stupid (moves randomly).
So, the improvements aren't really welcome, right?
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Mac programs are held to certain standard, and running on X doesn't cut it.
irb(main):001:0>
There have been a few comments from people saying that they prefer a MDI interface as used by programs such as Adobe Photoshop. In other words, they want the application to manage it's own windows. Surely this is a job for your window manager?
From what I can remember, Windomaker had the ability to deal with all the windows of an application at once. A window manager I used once allowed you to put windows into logical groups so you could perform actions on all windows in a group. Fluxbox has the option of grouping windows together and selecting them with tabs. Saving window positions is an option in a fair number of window managers.
There may be room for improvement with many parts of the interface, but how to organise the windows is not one of them in my opinion. The GIMP developers need to concentrate on creating a decent image manipulation program, not a windowmanager.
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.â"John Gaule
Does any know whether some EXIF support has been
introduced? For starter, it would be nice to just
preserve EXIF information found in the file when
the image is saved...
Never heard of it.
;)
It is related to GIMP or some other project.
Or am I actually going to have to get off my duff and start googling?
Everything from text layout tools (Photoshop CS uses the new InDesign text engine) to color management (Gimp's is still very poor in comparison) to widespread plug-in support by third-parties to...
Why am I even bothering? OSS people will always think of inane reasons their OSS version is superior (i.e., the multi-monitor feature, which Photoshop also does anyway).
You know, you can tell a lot about a product from its screenshots. So let's take a look at this one. First, I should say that I am not a graphics artist, nor do I play one on TV. I do some mild photo retouching, web art, icon design, stuff like that. I've used Photoshop and Illustrator, and currently use Paint Shop Pro (hey, its only $89 and it works).
...? Xtns? I have no idea.
... no idea, actually, since I assume that the second one is new. The third is probably copy (why can't I copy a circle(11) by the way?), the fourth is delete, and the fifth is - refresh? How often do you need to refresh your brushes that it gets the bottom-right corner of the window all to itself? That's prime real estate!
What's the first thing that I see? Well, we have a bunch of little windows with a terminal manager peeking through. Annyoing, but I can deal with it. Hmm - they're all showing up on the taskbar, too. More annoying, but lets move on.
Looking at what I presume is the "new" Gimp interface, on the left, the colored icons are much easier to understand at a glance. The menus, however, leave a lot to be desired. One problem with small windows is that, unless you're using Mac style menus, you have small menu labels. Like these ones. File: fair enough. Help: likewise. Xtns:
Looking at the bottom of the docked options window, I can see some buttons. I'd guess that the first one is Save, the second (greyed out) is undo/back, the third is delete (delete my ink options?) and the fourth is... erm... undo again? You've got me. Hope that they have mouseovers, but they really shouldn't have needed them.
Looking at the "Brushes, Patterns, Gra" window. Ooh, nice title. Anyway, these seem pretty reasonable, although the weird icons at the bottom are back, and different. I guess the first one is
Okay, now onto the main window. Heh - they can't seem to draw their rulers correctly so that you can see the stops and read the numbers. Oh, well. Again, we have the problem of the window size - this time the menus are readable, but one of them seems to be "La" - possibly "Lay" - and who knows how many are inaccessible off to the right? Its good to know that I can cancel my picture, however - or could in some situations whenever the button is enabled.
All in all, from a first glance (which is all many prospective users will ever give it), I'll stick with Paint Shop Pro, thankyouverymuch.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
Does this version support 48-bit color (16-bit per RGB channel)? Right now I have to use Cinepaint to view and edit my 48-bit photos and I'd really rather just use the Gimp for everything.
Why that? What can you do with Photoshop that you can't do with the Gimp? Gimp now has the CMYK color scheme, so the only real pro-Photoshop argument has faded...
From the article:
"Admittedly, the current rendition of CMYK in the GIMP is far behind that of commercial offerings, but the mere existence of CMYK in the latest version means we can look forward to improved profile selection in future versions."
And that's just CMYK.
If Mac users are going to throw hissy fits then let them. "Proper Mac" or not (and I think some Mac users have to get off their philosophical high horse), the fact that the Gimp developers are taking the time to release an OS X version ( and probably won't make a dime as a result, instead getting flames from the likes of you) tells me that they aren't as lazy or deceitful as you would lead people to believe. It's one thing to make a constructive suggestion, but it's totally another to be a trollish flamer.
"...today consumers have been conditioned to think of beer when they see a bullfrog..."
Where can i get the macosx version for (F,f)ree? Macgimp is selling it but i dont see a free download.
Does the current gimp source compile on osx? Does it need X or it works on aqua too? Am i stuck with fink?
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
ALL keyboard shortcuts are user-definable, and really easily. (Just mouse over the option/menu_item you want to redefine and press the keyboard shortcut you want to use for it) so making them all Photoshop-compatibile isn't a really hard work.
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Historically, Linux has survived just fine with neither.
If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
See, your problem is that you have a taskbar, which is a flawed utility that is useable with only a fixed number of windows before it runs out of screen space.
You should try out sawfish without gnome. Instead of a taskbar, you'll have a cascading menu when you right click on the root window that groups your application's windows by application. There's probably a taskbar out there somewhere that does something similar, but I've yet to see one, and you'd still be wasting all those pixels.
is the "Healing Brush".. That's my single favorite part of Photoshop; especially when touching up family photos from a digital camera.
It is kind of funny that one of the last major applications to migrate to GTK2.0 is the application that created GTK in the first place (hence GTK - GIMP ToolKit).
Although I guess it kind of makes sense since GTK and GIMP are pretty tightly integrated - it would be far from trivial to switch versions.
Before everyone starts falsely claiming otherwise, Photoshop DOES do multi-monitor support. Honestly, you think Photoshop wouldn't after all these years?
Really, I see no reason for having eight taskbar buttons open for one app. I have to devote an entire desktop to Gimp. You can argue with me how "bad" MDI is supposed to be until the cows come home. It hasn't affected the success of Photoshop, and it's what people want.
I've been using PS for many years and as new features are implemented I recommend PS to people but the price is prohibitive to say the least. This is where Gimp owns the competition and particularly PS. Although Gimp isn't a dupe of PS it is very, very powerful and intuitive and with the price how can it lose?
Personally I am moving into Gimp from Photoshop as well as Openoffice from MS Office because I'm just tired of the ridiculous upgrades to keep compatibility issues in check.
Open source is the single greatest thing to happen in a very long time. It has opened up a new horizon for me and the people I recommend software to. I am our company's "IT Guy" for our state and my top recommendations of late are Firefox, Openoffice, Gimp, and SuSe for those looking for a change. This is coming from a strictly Adobe/M$ house. I figured I could use the "$" now since I'm an open source fanboy now!
It's pretty cool when I can move 100's of people in the direction of open source and this filters down to their families too so I am doing my part.
You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.
Ctrl+D or image->duplicate
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A toolbar is very useful for single-click access to perhaps a dozen currently-open documents or apps... or at least it would be if it not for the GIMP cluttering it with buttons which are neither apps nor docs, and which serve no useful purpose there... or on a cascading menu that groups windows by application.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
The original versions of GIMP used the Motif took kit. Since it was not Free, and Lesstif wasn't up to running the GIMP, the developers started work on a tool kit just for the GIMP. This was also about the time that KDE development started up with QT. Seeing how flexible the tool kit being created for the GIMP was, other developers started writing other programs using the same kit. Thus GNOME was born.
Seeing all the work the core GIMP developers put into GTK, I don't image they'll put the time into porting it to another widget set. That is not saying it can't be done. Just don't get your hopes up.
Actually there is a version of gimp for win32. Gimp for Windows It uses GTK even... There is even a nicely packaged version for those unwilling brave a .zip file here.
These are up to Gimp 2.0 pre2.
Cheers,
Joe
Don't like the old UI? It's gone. All new.
Hi, could I have some of that shit you're smoking?
If by "It's gone" you mean "It's still here", then I agree with you. I'll also agree if by "All new" you meant "exactly the fucking same".
Did you look at the screenshots? Sorry, but slightly changing the shadows and highlights on some of the controls to make it look more glossy is NOT A NEW UI. How it looks is not why some people (including myself) dislike Gimp's UI. UI stands for user interface, which is something you interact with. It's the way that we interact with the program that leaves the sour taste in our mouth.
The problem for me is the tens of windows that get hidden underneath each other and provide no easy way to find the one you want short of shuffling through your windows like you're searching through a pile of papers on your desk. Highly inefficient and completely disruptive to the workflow process. Photoshop, Visual Studio, 3D Modelling programs, and numerous other things that need to handle the display of large volumes of disparate data all have slightly different approaches to solving these problems, but they all rely heavily on two proven methods of UI design: "expansion" and "tabbing". Most of them don't even bother to use the default Windows controls for this, but they all do it. Microsoft, on the other hand, has moved away from multi-window and MDI applications for a long time now, because they're cluttered and awkward for users. It's an analogy that isn't useful and doesn't make sense.
GIMP would do well, in my opinion, to take a lesson from the de-facto standards. I'm all for innovating in open source rather than just following the leader, but you really have to be careful that your "innovation" is actually an improvement or at least comparable to the standard. In this case it isn't.
Random and weird software I've written.
I like the upgrades for the new version. However, the main place were the GIMP fails time and time again is the documentation.
I don't know how many times I've run into broken links or people who don't work on a give part of the documentation any more.
If the GIMP team are going to get more people to switch over, the documentation needs to be WAY more solid than it is right now.
Dolemite
__________________
Save the World! Use a Quote!
How do I draw a Line, Circle or Square?
This is a fundamental problem with Gimp that keeps it out of the hands of the main stream people. The Menu options are not simple enough for a stupid user (e.g. ME) to Open Gimp and edit an image quickly. I have to know that in order to draw a line, you select a brush and hold shift and click or some crap like that, which not only am I not going to remember, but I'm simply not going to use it!!
The Gimp is one of the legacy OSS projects that has been around for so long, but has still not understood what it takes to bring it main stream. A more intuitive interface for stupid users, an MDI layout that doesn't confuse users (e.g. ME) and most importantly, allow the user to draw a line without having to alt-shift-control-wipe-your-ass-click action.
I spend about half my time in the RGB space, then the other half in CMYK, there is no reliable way to translate "take 2% out of the magenta and 7% out of the black" acurately from RGB->CMYK.
As long as I am making these kind of corrections to CMYK files there is no way I can rely on GIMP
The other side is, I pay for photoshop because I can work best within it. 10 years of using an application makes it both familiar and "easy". I have no problem paying adobe for upgrades to allow me to make money.
If you are one in a million, then there are six thousand people who are just like you.
...is buggy.
I routinely switch between a single monitor (think notebook) and multiple monitors (think notebook with nice big monitor at work). When I'm only using the single, Photoshop often leaves certain dialogue boxes on the non-existant monitor. The effect is that the app is broken until the next time I'm at work.
I'm pretty careful, now, about where I use and leave dialogue boxes, but it still happens. The "Reset palette locations" command works for palettes, but not for dialogue boxes. Adobe confirms that this is a known bug; I can only hope they'll fix it in the next release. Otherwise, I loooooove Photoshop. Cheers!
Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
The problem is limitations in the internals of gimp, which are due to be replaced when GEGL comes along (another year or so). Then gimp will have true CMYK support.
I agree 100% that the GIMP is not a Photoshop replacement but it sure as hell offers a huge amount of features, and finally, a decent GUI, for $0.
I have just waded through about 20 +5 insightful modded posts about how bad GIMP 1.2's GUI was. Sigh, I know this is slashdot, but is even reading the editor's comment to much, even if RTFA is?
How on earth can you say that the GIMP 2 is crap unless you've tried it. I can see this working quite well for web graphics and standard home printer stuff, and the new interface with dockable palettes and menus in the image window saving one from having to right-click all the time are fantastic.
I don't know what pisses the PS people off more: the fact that the GIMP is finally improving or that they spent an enormous amount of money on Adobe's tools that they only use for web graphics in the end.
But most Win32 users don't have virtual desktops.
Sure they do!
And the l33t shall inherit the 34r7h.
Finally a way to get anna nicole smith back to the normal proportion!
So I guess it's hard to judge the interface accurately and without bias
Just a little info.
I was intensive user of Photoshop from 2.5 up to 5.5 (in that time I even worked for graphic company). When they completely rearranged menus in 6.0, I just didn't wanted to bother, because Gimp has already overtaken my Photoshop needs. But then again I never needed CMYK (after I left that job) and Photoshop just didn't feel well with multiple monitors (3), for that kind of monitor layout MDI is a real NO GO. I even tried to switch to Apple, because Apple hasn't got MDI, but having menu on one screen was to clumsy and I trashed my Apple&Photoshop high hopes.
But to dump about being unbiased, I still support some DTP companies so I couldn't avoid 7 and CS. And there's nothing better about them either.
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
When I tried to introduce my wife (graphic designer/QuarkXPress/Photoshop/Illustator ninja) to The Gimp 1.2, the first thing that happened was this:
Where's the shape drawing tool? Whaddya mean I have to use the selection tool to draw a circle? That's stupid. Weeellllllll, let's make a little text instead. One line? I can't auto-kern? Where the hell's the preview? Ok, there we go.....dammit, maybe not. Where in the fuc.....oh, there it is. Hey, how do I select multiple layers--the damn shift key doesn't work. The hell with this...what good is this thing, anyway?
There's a lot to be said for standardized user interface elements if you want to get the professionals on board..........
Don't Panic!
This is one thing that has always annoyed me about certain Open Source packages. GNU - Oh, that's so clever I forgot to laugh!
Do you think that Adobe would have sold Photoshop if they had named it "The WIMP" (Windows Image Manipulation Program) or "The APP" (Adobe Photo Program).
I mean, "Photo IMP" or almost anything else would have been better.
Try to appreciate GIMP for what it is and give the maintainers some support instead of going on about things photoshop has that gimp doesn't.
GIMP isn't trying to replace photoshop, and I feel people don't give it as much cred as it deserves.
I am running Gimp 2 beta and it still needs Adjustment Layers like Photoshop.
Adjustment Layers allow adjustments to be made to all layers underneath on a separate and changeable adjustment layer.
Don't like your first choice for "color levels", just select the layer and change it.
Want to change the text layer that was part of an image you just "color leveled", just change the text layer.
In Gimp these adjustments are lossy and final, in Photoshop they don't have to be.
When will Gimp support the awesome "healing brush" that Photoshop has?
After discovering Photoshops new "healing brush" for touching up photographs I will never be able to go back to just the clone tool.
The healing brush clones, makes the clone match the color characteristics of the surrounding pixels, and blends the clone with the surrounding pixels.
A 20 minute job can be done in 3 or 4 minutes.
Ranting how crappy Gimp is compared to [fill in comercial product here] is just as unfitting as stating that Gimp is about as good as PS.
I'm a mulimediadesinger and have worked with a wide range of tool on a professional level.
Gimp 1.3 actually _is_ a usefull tool. It's not the tool of choice for most things, but in some scenarios it can actually deliver results were other grafics tools get in their own way with feature and algorithim bloat.
The habit of putting every thing in it's own window made pre-1.3 Gimp absolutely unbearable for production. Unless you had Fluxbox, maybe.
But the simple level Anti-Aliasig and some other nice features along with the one or other workaroud trick make Gimp a nice Pixeleditor to work with. Praise the Gimp team for getting the message and introducing tabs and other must-haves for GUI work.
On top of that, - and this is one of the most notable things of this OSS project imho - as long as I can remember, Gimp has allways been an absolute breeze to install. I wish all OSS would install that way. For instance, right now I'm debugging a default Postgres/ODBC Setup and it's taken up 30 workhours allready with no end in sight...
To me the undo stack in Gimp 2.0 looks promising, as it hints in the direction of the PS protokoll. Which, btw, proves that PS is still waaaaay ahead of any competition, be it comercial or OSS.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to Gimp 2. Cudos to the Gimp team for their good work.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Well, there is a file called ps-menurc that is shipped with The GIMP. You take this file and copy it over your ~/.gimp-1.3/menurc and voila, PS keybindings.
I love Gimp and use it almost exclusively when on my Linux box (at home).
But lately I've not had as much time as I'd like to work on my puter at home.
So I use Gimp at work... when I can.
GTK for Windows has a bug in it when dealing with digital tablets and.. yep.. I draw with a tablet. Gasp.
Fix that single bug and Gimp will be absolutly perfict. Else I'll be using other software to draw my images and then the gimp for image editing after the fact.
But that kinda sucks.
I don't actually exist.
I'm rather shocked to see all the complaints about the Gimp here. The comments seem to be divided into two categories:
1. I've never used it, but from the screenshots it looks scary! It sucks!
2. I've used it, and it didn't work exactly like Photoshop. It sucks!
As a person who has used Photoshop (and a bevy of other paint programs, all the way back to the days of DPaint) extensively, I feel the Gimp is by far the best program available for creating (pixel-based) graphics, especially in the realm of web imagery.
I have used it to create from-scratch graphics for countless websites, including: this, this, this, and this. I have also used it to do many print items, such as this flyer. (Amazingly enough, CMYK is not really that necessary if you don't mind slight variations in the color on the final product. If you are doing serious print work, you should really be using a vector illustration program for everything but photo retouching anyhow.)
I think perhaps the Gimp's strength is how a non-artist (ie, me) can create pretty nice looking art with it - as I believe the links above will attest. It has a number of features not found in any other paint program, such as highly configurable tablet sensitivity.
Unfortunately, the hardest thing about using it for someone who has switched from Photoshop is that it looks _very_ similar to Photoshop, but yet it is really not very similar at all. Much like an expencied Windows user switching to KDE, they will find themselves fooled into expecting the interface to behave exactly the same way - and it doesn't. It's a different program, with a different interface.
But those who either have the patience to un-learn their Photoshop habits, or are not burdened by them to begin with, will find the Gimp to be one of the most powerful graphics tools available today. It is also quite likely one of the most impressive and mature applications available in the realm of free software - on par with Mozilla, OpenOffice, and Evolution. I'm not sure why it doesn't get the same respect that these packages do.
FireWorks is the most henious personification of evil the web has ever seen. It takes an expanse of pixels, puts them through a paper shredder, mixes the bits in water, and then forces you to eat the unrecognizable paste. (What else would you call a bunch of tiny image-filled table cells with no semantics that are only aligned properly in IE?) I can only hope you're not being accurate when you say it has FireWorks-esq features...
Anyhow, I was very impressed with it. Admittedly, there are some things that are still rough around the edges, but this is a significant improvement over previous releases. Things I especially liked:
- Relocation of the line stroke button that makes it easier to use Bezier curves and the like.
- Better resizing and resampling algorithms that produce that nice, anti-aliased effect.
- Quick, no frills approach to plugins and features.
Things that I still think need improvement:
- I think that rather than have a smattering of premade brushes with the option to make your own that Gimp should adopt a system like Paint Shop Pro where the menu for the paintbrush (and other relevant tools) lets you adjust the brush size, density, step, etc. in one convenient panel, rather than having to go through the effort of making an entirely new custom brush for the task. The current approach is functional, but unnecessarily clumsy.
- Have something akin to the Browse feature in Paint Shop Pro. This feature analyzes all graphics in a directory, produces thumbnails of all of them, and displays them in a window where you can pick and choose which ones to open. It's like a pictoral file selector.
- Implement more features that can be done with Layers, like adjusting gray channels for example and allow layers to modify layers beneath them (e.g. a Multiply layer or a Screen layer). If this ability exists, I haven't found it.
- I'm not still not a huge fan of the MDI approach. If you have related taskbar icons cluster in Windows or Linux, it's not too bad however, and there are pros and cons to both approaches.
But it's not at all bad. For free, it's a remarkable product. As an example, I selfishly submit this plug for my webcomic whose most current chapter was done with Gimp (true until this Sunday, unless I decide to use Gimp again): http://dragonangel.keenspace.com
It's just that with Paint Shop Pro already costing about $60 on sale (as low as $15 for previous users), and being more substantial and feature packed than Gimp, I don't have a reason to switch to Gimp (unless PSP 9 is a similar flop), but I would certainly recommend it for the graphic artist on the cheap.
A true 48 bit support would be a great plus for such an app: no concurrent, great market. And if you optimize it for 64 bit AMD processors, you could potentially create the first killer app for 64 bit processors (remember, you need 64 bit registers to handle 48 bit colors simply).
Non-Linux Penguins ?
Okay, y'all, I know I'm ringing in on this late, and it's 6:00am without any sleep for me, so I might come off as brusque. Everybody says "I'm not a graphic designer, but..." Well, I actually am a graphic designer.
The GIMP may, someday, be as good as Photoshop. Right now, it's not even close. Photoshop's interface is so polished and so wise, and its tools are so powerful but easily accessible, that all of these debates about the GIMP are frivolous. I've used both extensively, and for anything other than fucking around, there's no comparison.
I will pay $600 for a program as powerful as Photoshop. But, I'd really like to have Photoshop (without the use of CrossoverOffice) run on my Linux desktop machine. I can boot into Windows or I can walk to my Win98 box to run Photoshop, but it's frustrating not to have Photoshop accessible when I'm doing other sorts of serious work.
What I think graphic designers who want to use Linux should do is lobby Adobe to make PS available on Linux. I would pay, and I know others who would, too.
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