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Breaking RSA Keys by Listening to Your Computer

An anonymous reader writes "Adi Shamir and crew gave a talk on preliminary results in extracting a private RSA key just by listening to the computer!. Similar to power analysis and LED leakage, this is a non-invasive, side channel attack that may have applications to tamper-resistant systems. It appears to be related to noisy capacitors on the motherboard, an effect which has been observed when CPU power saving is enabled on laptops."

186 comments

  1. That's it... screw the enviroment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    No power saving for me! My encrypted porn is far too important.

    1. Re:That's it... screw the enviroment by jacquesm · · Score: 1

      easy to fix, simply encase your machine in some foam... the noise is actually made by the attraction between the conductors in the capacitors, as the capactitors get charged/discharged the (usually rolled up aluminum foil with some acid soaked insulator in between) the conductors vibrate a little. Cheaper capacitors vibrate more (more loosely wound->more space to vibrate !). For maximum security use tantalium caps ! (fire hazard, great pyrotechnics if you overload them).

  2. Humm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if the FBI had a chat with him.

  3. Quite didn't get it!!! by KrisCowboy · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The following demonstrates some preliminary results in the analysis of acoustic emanations from personal computers, showing them to be a surprisingly rich source of information on CPU activity.

    Does it mean that people can get my private key by actually "listening" to my box? It would be great if anyone can provide more information regarding this. It's kinda freaky!!!

    1. Re:Quite didn't get it!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I doubt anyone is going to go to the trouble of getting my private key so Im not worried there. In fact I think this is a great thing! Trusted computing can be a good thing as long as each computer owner knows there own key, then MS can not own/control your computer. Of course MS doesnt want owners to know there key. So, knowing that MS has already bought our government I believe there is no avoiding trusted computing, so, that leaves us with our final defense, figuring out what our own key is. This seems like it might be the answer to keeping control of our own property in the years ahead of us.

    2. Re:Quite didn't get it!!! by David+Horn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Is this similar to the noise heard when using an onboard sound card? On my laptop when plugged in to the mains, a distint hiss/buzz/rumble comes out the line-out jack. It changes when moving the mouse or accessing the hard disk, or when the CPU is under load.

      It seems that this is a more reliable method for finding a key than using a microphone, but, of course, it does require physical access to the computer.

      --
      PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
    3. Re:Quite didn't get it!!! by bprime · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's kinda freaky!!!

      Don't you mean 'phreaky'?

    4. Re:Quite didn't get it!!! by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Is it a Dell?

      At work we need to by the Dell power adapter with two prongs (no ground) or in a pinch clip the ground off of a standard one. We do audio video display in court rooms, noone wants to here the whining of a computer.

      It is only on dells we have noticed this which is why I ask.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    5. Re:Quite didn't get it!!! by David+Horn · · Score: 1

      Nope, a Compaq TC1000 tablet PC. I do know what you mean with regard to Dells, though - we were going to use one instead of a minidisk player for a theatre piece, but the hum was unbearable, especially amplified. We couldn't even equalise it out, cause there was noise across nearly all the frequencies.

      I'll pick up a two prong adaptor on Monday and see if it makes a difference. Thanks for your advice!

      --
      PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
  4. I can attest to this... by Seoulstriker · · Score: 1

    I have a 2.4ghz Pentium 4b on an Asus P4B266 motherboard. Hearing my capacitors buzzing and sinking when the processor is under full load is comforting because I can tell if there is some kind of process hogging my load. Unfortunately, it is extremely annoying after a while, but I don't want to spend the money to get a new motherboard. :(

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    I am defenseless. Use your button. Mod me down with all of your hatred.
    1. Re:I can attest to this... by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I usually get this on my own setup a P4b-266 w/1.7(oc'd to 1874), but only after a reboot; and only do you hear it on re-init's prior to loading windows(pick a flavor) or BSD. Not when the machine is running.

      I'm thinking that it's the little critters getting just abit too hot, I found that increasing the airflow and cooling everything down by a couple of degrees seems to make the noise go away. Unless...it's in the winter...in which case...the house is more then cool enough and you don't have to worry about it. heh.

      The boards are good, but my man...were already looking at the operational product end for these boards and it's been two years since they came out. It took intel 6mo to come out with the 533, then the 800's. I kick myself in the ass everytime I think on that...and and buying a AMD next time around; I can get a proc and board twice the speed at half the price for what I paid for this one.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:I can attest to this... by Seoulstriker · · Score: 1

      No kidding. I can't believe I bought such an incredibly slow mother board for my new processor. I bought it because it was by Asus and it was only $45.

      I don't think the capacitor problem has to do with heat. I just think that the speed of the processor is too great for such an old mobo. The recommended range for the board is 1.4ghz-2.4ghz. I'm on the high end of that spectrum unfortunately. I hear the caps going all the time when there is any load on the processor. I don't know if you would be able to crack encryptions with that. It's certainly worth a try.

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      I am defenseless. Use your button. Mod me down with all of your hatred.
    3. Re:I can attest to this... by BiggyP · · Score: 2, Funny

      i've got the wonderful feature of sound effects from my box when performing just about any GUI operation you care to mention, i originally thought that it was a monitor issue, now you tell me my privacy is at risk because of it!

      time to fit more fans and drown out the noise.

    4. Re:I can attest to this... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      It would be worth something to try anyway, when I picked up the board two years ago it was pushing almost $300. And was top of the line. lol In your case it's abit slow for what you want. There are some good gigabyte boards out now that are around $100, this one here seems to be holding it's own even being OC'd. But I'm just going to wait later in the year to upgrade the rest of this system. No real point.

      If you do hear the caps going all the time, then there is a chance that the board may have sat for too long and they have started to crystalize or dryout. You could try to RMA the board to ASUS and see what happens.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    5. Re:I can attest to this... by revmoo · · Score: 1

      It would be worth something to try anyway, when I picked up the board two years ago it was pushing almost $300. And was top of the line. lol In your case it's abit slow for what you want.

      Pun Intended?

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    6. Re:I can attest to this... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Quite. Glad to see someone caught that.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    7. Re:I can attest to this... by MuParadigm · · Score: 1


      BiggyP: "...time to fit more fans and drown out the noise."

      Read the article. Fans won't drown out the noise because signals are typically in the range above 10kHz, so the lower frequency sounds, like fans, can be filtered out.

  5. Lucky for me... by relyter · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've got so many fans running in my computer that you can't even hold a conversation in the same room, much less listen for capacitors

  6. If you have phsysical access by foidulus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wouldn't it just be easier to use money/women/men/donkeys to bribe the person to cough up a password?
    I guess you could always "bug" a place, but if you were significantly paranoid about security(to the point where someone would try to listen your key away from you) wouldn't you have a copper cage around your building?

    1. Re:If you have phsysical access by n0rr1s · · Score: 4, Funny

      use money/women/men/donkeys

      Btw, if you meet a woman with a donkey, don't forget that great opening line:
      "Hey babe, nice ass!"

      Sorry.

    2. Re:If you have phsysical access by arhca · · Score: 1

      And all you need for Brits is a chocolate bar! (hmmya)

    3. Re:If you have phsysical access by ScuxxletButt · · Score: 1
      Wouldn't it just be easier to use money/women/men/donkeys

      That only works in Tijauna.

    4. Re:If you have phsysical access by pluvia · · Score: 1

      Actually, the first thing I thought about is using it to break hardware based digital rights management (Trusted Computing? Palladium?) where the key is hidden in a chip on the motherboard and en/decryption is done internally.

      The summary mentions "tamper-resistant systems", but I'm not yet sure this attack applies to such cases, as I haven't read it yet. :)

    5. Re:If you have phsysical access by evilviper · · Score: 1
      Wouldn't it just be easier to use money/women/men/donkeys to bribe the person to cough up a password?

      Not if we are talking about anyplace that wants security. The article says that this is about attacking systems that are otherwise well secured. Secured against tempest attacks, and probably secured against incompotent users.

      Incidentally, a password won't do, the idea is to steal a private key.

      wouldn't you have a copper cage around your building?

      Some places do have electromagnetic sheilding, but few sheild their systems against audio leakage.

      This, unlike tempest attacks, would be quite difficult to exploit effectively, but it is good to bring attention to less-known ways that someone might be able to access sensitive data.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  7. Extracting the Actual Numbers? by artlu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article does not deal with actually computing the encoding (Pe) and decoding functions (Pd) for q,n,d. Where q,n are unique primes. The only thing their interference spotted is the markings between computing each function for the signature, and this drastically varies based on the machine. They do have a Proof of Conept, but no quantifiable data.
    My $0.02.

    artlu

    --
    -------
    artlu.net
  8. Some guy was investigated for excercising the FOIA by ObviousGuy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Investigations are an important part of the justice system. Though the tenet is "innocent until proven guilty", it's only possible to prove someone guilty by means of an investigation.

    By encrypting your data, you are bringing unnecessary suspicion upon yourself. I wouldn't be surprised if the FBI's powers are enhanced to include surveillance of you and your data.

    --
    I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
  9. RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    schmuck

  10. Does anyone... by centralizati0n · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Does anyone know the range of how far you can be away from the computer to hear the sounds? The proof-of-concept website just seemed to be "look, here are pictures of computer operations... in sound! Yay!" without enlightening us on any details.

    1. Re:Does anyone... by gravyfaucet · · Score: 0

      I happen to know you can listen to computers in the white house from Penn. Ave. The password I decoded was 1,2,3,4,5. Or it could have been Dubya unpacking after a trip to Camp David.

      --
      Yes! Evil rules! Good can suck it! Suck it, good!
    2. Re:Does anyone... by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      Really, it depends on what equipment is being used to pick up the sounds.

      Think about WiFi. Your standard access point and and laptop card will work for about 300 feet. However, somebody 1000 feet away could interact with that network using a simple pringles can attenna.

      The same theory basically can be applied to sound, the more directional microphone and the better it is at filtering unwanted sound, the better the signal-to-noise ratio will get. So, putting walls and other background noises into the problem will make it harder to find the signal here... but I don't think there's going to be anything that can make it truely physically impossible from longer distances, just very hard to make it nearly impossible.

    3. Re:Does anyone... by Jim+Starx · · Score: 1

      You could put your computer into a soundproof box. They're actually pretty easy to find, used alot in music studio's to kill fan noise and such. Of course, access could still be gained by breaking into the box or anything like that. But as access goes a sound source is alot easyer to control then a WiFi network.

      --
      The darkness... controls the music. The music... controls the soul.
  11. found a way to stop it by DrLZRDMN · · Score: 3, Funny

    the wont be able to hear it if you've got one of these

    1. Re:found a way to stop it by Rufus211 · · Score: 1

      Or how about one of these? They're old-school and no one in their right mind uses them anymore, but damn those little things could push air (due to the fact they were going at 8000(!) RPM).

    2. Re:found a way to stop it by Daniel+Wood · · Score: 1

      No! Stop! Heeeeelp!!!

      (I used to sleep in the same room as one of those. Talk about nightmares of getting blasted from afterburners and such.)

    3. Re:found a way to stop it by jepaton · · Score: 2, Funny

      And the manufacturer will still describe it as "almost silent".

    4. Re:found a way to stop it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      56 dBA! damn...

  12. RSA sucks anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd never use SHA-1/RSA for digital signature.

    Nope, for it's DSA/DSS all the way, and all the noisy capacitors in the world won't help you break it.

    Why do I trust it? Because it was developed by the NSA, not a bunch left leaning MIT eggheads.

    1. Re:RSA sucks anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      You trust that the NSA does not have a back door in, or did not also develop a way to break the encryption? From what I know of them they would not want to give out unbreakable encryption.

    2. Re:RSA sucks anyway by kasperd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nope, for it's DSA/DSS all the way, and all the noisy capacitors in the world won't help you break it.
      That wouldn't change anything. RSA as well as DSS is based on modulus exponentiation with a secret exponent. If you can get the exponent you have broken the system, it is as simple as that.

      Why do I trust it? Because it was developed by the NSA, not a bunch left leaning MIT eggheads.
      That kind of logic is useless in the security business. Basing your trust upon who designed the algorithm is stupid. How many (and who) tried to break the algorithm and failed at that is a better meassure on the security. A good rationale behind the design is another good meassure on the security. And finally mathematical proofs.

      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    3. Re:RSA sucks anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, are you Kasper Dik of Sun Microsystems fame?

    4. Re:RSA sucks anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ron rivest is a yale man!

    5. Re:RSA sucks anyway by kasperd · · Score: 1

      Hey, are you Kasper Dik of Sun Microsystems fame?

      Nope. I'm Kasper Dupont of usenet fame.

      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    6. Re:RSA sucks anyway by Spiked_Three · · Score: 1

      Great reason to trust it. Use any clipper chips lately?

      --
      slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
  13. It's the CPU dummy! by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 0, Funny

    That damn 666 CPU....

    There you have it, the EVIL bit at work....

    1. Re:It's the CPU dummy! by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Jeezuz Fn christ! Do you mods even RTFA??

      The article said the CPU is a 666mhz chip,
      " the computer being recorded is a no-brand box using a PC Chips M754LMR motherboard, an Intel Celeron 666MHz CPU"

      Who ever modded parent off topic is a RETARD...

  14. reminds me of the old days by belmolis · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Twenty years ago at Bell Labs one of the speech machines (an SEL with homebrew audio i/o) had output to loudspeakers that went through unshielded speaker wires that ran past the CPU, so if you weren't playing anything back the speakers played back CPU noise. We could tell what stage a compilation was at by the noise that came over the speakers.

    1. Re:reminds me of the old days by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I actually still get that.

      If i turn my speakers wayyyyyyyyyyyyy up and start working, I can here the data being moved around. Scares the crap out of me when something plays a sample, but fun all the same.

      Its happened on my 2 most recent boards, and I just put it down to the integrated sound cards vs the Sound blasters I used to use.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    2. Re:reminds me of the old days by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Vectrex video game system runs an unshielded audio cable right past the tube and you can hear the system pulling the photons around - as it's a vector scan system, it produces an extremely wide variety of noise on the speaker.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:reminds me of the old days by Stalus · · Score: 1

      I generally hear it with my headphones on. I can definitely hear my mouse wheel, and generally other things as well. It's quite annoying.

    4. Re:reminds me of the old days by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 1

      Are you sure its the wheel itself, or the amount of data being blasted around as the entire screen is scrolled vertically?

      I do notice it on long webpages, and recently, we swapped out my wifes psu with a really dodgy one, we could here the fans themselves physically changing speed as the cpu/gpu usage increased.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    5. Re:reminds me of the old days by tricops · · Score: 2, Informative

      I used to have that problem. I have an extension jack for the speaker out and mic at the front of my case.

      One day when I had the case open and was moving stuff around, I noticed it made noise whenever I bumped the cable for said jacks. Once removed, the noise went away.... probably not the same thing in your case, but gotta love unshielded cables.

      --
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      (")")
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    6. Re:reminds me of the old days by Gadi+Evron · · Score: 1

      Actually, that sounds more like TEMPEST. The magnetic interferance on the unshielded cable sounds exactly that, or am I wrong?

    7. Re:reminds me of the old days by Alien+Conspiracy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My old Atari ST would emit different background hiss via the TV modulator output depending on the CPU load.

    8. Re:reminds me of the old days by Stalus · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's the stuff moving on the screen, not the wheel itself. I can hear it when I change firefox tabs as well :P

    9. Re:reminds me of the old days by stephentyrone · · Score: 1

      how close is your sound card to the video? electromagnetic interference is a wonderful thing.

    10. Re:reminds me of the old days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, theres actually some software that plays "music" using it (this obviously has confused more than its fair share of emulation enthusiasts over the years).

    11. Re:reminds me of the old days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get a similar thing happening to my computer. If I open up a long menu (the bookmarks one works well for this) and just move the cursor down the menu, I can hear a slight noise coming from the case each time a new item is highlighted. I have no clue what causes it. It's definitely not the hard drive, or the speakers (don't even have any plugged in).

      It's a bit annoying, but I don't think there's anything I can do short of replacing some or all of the hardware.

    12. Re:reminds me of the old days by BillyBlaze · · Score: 1

      Back when I had an integrated sound card that did that, I noticed that interrupt activity did it. HD usage sounded one way, and USB usage had a distinct sound. So moving the mouse caused a low frequency buzz. It could be that.

    13. Re:reminds me of the old days by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      I hear those kinds of noises too, mostly when much of screen is updated in one go.

      FWIW, my soundcard is right next to my graphics card.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    14. Re:reminds me of the old days by dargaud · · Score: 1

      I had a 6502 based computer (not the Apple II). When it went into reset mode after an assembly screw up, I could hear the different sound coming from the CPU. I had exactly 3 seconds to press the NMI button or the machine would do a hard reset. The NMI button was under the keyboard so it was a quickdraw to turn it over and grab a pen to press it. I eventually rewired it on top of the keyboard because if I missed the 3 seconds window I had to reload 20 minutes of tape into the machine. It was an Oric 1 in 1981.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    15. Re:reminds me of the old days by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 2, Informative

      I get that on laptops a lot, especially this one Windows laptop. I get various feedback in the sound system based on what's happening (harddrive access vs CPU)

      --
      --------
      Free your mind.
    16. Re:reminds me of the old days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh. A friend of mine had the same problem (albeit with headphones).

      Solution? Fix the ground connection in your house's wiring. :)

    17. Re:reminds me of the old days by toddestan · · Score: 1

      I have a Logitech optical USB mouse that generated all kinds of noise when it's cable got too close to the audio cable running to my speakers. I guess the cables weren't well sheilded or something. I solved that problem by moving the mouse to the front USB.

    18. Re:reminds me of the old days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was exactly the way I came to know the little computer people that live inside my machine.

      The funny thing is that I only can hear them when I'm running Linux, when I'm running Windows (which
      is very rare) they are quiet. They don't want to talk about it (I communicate with them using a mic), but
      my theory is that they are tied down when running this OS.

    19. Re:reminds me of the old days by hostyle · · Score: 1

      I still get this. Onboard sound card combined with Western Digital HDDs (noisy buggers, but great performers). When theres no actual sounds being produced, turning off the speakers gives about 50% less noise.

      --
      Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
    20. Re:reminds me of the old days by ozzmosis · · Score: 1

      that happened to me when my speaker wires were too close to the lan wire.

  15. Aha! by dupper · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now I have an excuse to play loud music at work: security!

  16. not so lucky by hatchetman82 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "...For example, a high-quality analog equalizer can be used to attenuate strong low-frequency fan hums and background noise..."
    taken from the article.
    you'd need background noise in the same frequency area (dummy CPU ?)

    1. Re:not so lucky by relyter · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if I just piped in a simple singnal generating circut and filled the local area with white noise of about the same frequency of the northbridge?

    2. Re:not so lucky by Jim+Starx · · Score: 1

      Fourier analysis can detect signals below the noise floor. White noise would certainly make it really fucking hard. But not theoretically impossible. Instead, just buy a soundproof box for the computer, like the kind recording studio's used.

      --
      The darkness... controls the music. The music... controls the soul.
    3. Re:not so lucky by Spetiam · · Score: 1

      i don't know, the whooshing and other noises my fan makes are more like white noise - it certainly covers a much broader spectrum than a simple hum, and it's loud enough to be more than background noise

      of course, i don't know what i'm talking about, so take my comment for whatever you think it's worth
  17. No by Transient0 · · Score: 5, Informative

    at best, they have shown that they can detect differences in the types of instructions the processor is executing by listening to the sounds of the capacitors. It is a long way from there to the point where they can extract the key itself from the information. In fact, I would venture that the data is far too noisy (haha) for any significant part of the key to ever be extracted, reagardless of the amount of computational power thrown at the problem. What they might be able to do however is use the information gleaned to eliminate large swaths of the set of possible keys. This could make cracking the key by conventional means a computationally easier task.

    So, in all, this paper is not insignificant, but it's also not a reason to completely give up on security or to install a cone of silence around your computer.

    1. Re:No by lpangelrob2 · · Score: 2, Funny
      So, in all, this paper is not insignificant, but it's also not a reason to completely give up on security or to install a cone of silence around your computer.

      I'm not sure that I could fit this around a computer in the first place.

    2. Re:No by ciroknight · · Score: 1

      And thus, the next generation of Apple computer cases was born.

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
  18. it's no lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they're not making this up - on my laptop i can hear the noisy capacitors when the harddrive has spun down and the CPU is in energy-saving mode.

  19. no disrespect to Adi Shamir, but... by Gadi+Evron · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As much as this technology is a risk and therefore a potential threat, unless you are of the reaslly paranoid (which would mean this interests you considerably) there are far easier ways of attacking a computer.

    This attack came to show how to attack the key, which is why it interests these folks, I suppose, but it would be much easier to use TEMPEST if you get access to actually install some tool to hear && (record || trasmit) the audio.

    I would suggest TEMPEST would also be more reliable, but some testing is in order, as well as a lot of research for every CPU you intend to attack.

    Cost vs. benfit? I can't really see it.

    This is pretty cool though!! :)

    (adding another mark on my paranoia list).

    1. Re:no disrespect to Adi Shamir, but... by Belsical · · Score: 1
      Cost vs. benfit? I can't really see it.
      Welcome to 90% of the articles on Slashdot.....
      --

      "There are no such things as mutual fantasies. Yours bore us and ours offend you."
      - Bill Maher
  20. Re:This just in ..... by Pidder · · Score: 2, Funny
    In Soviet Russia, the computer listens to YOU...

    Dude, atleast use the proper syntax.

  21. Odd article to have Shamir's name on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What a ridiculous load of bunk. You cannot possibly use audio frequencies to infer any meaningful information about what's happening on a processor running at 1,000 MHz or higher clock speeds. Repetitive sampling techniques would be necessary, and I don't think anyone's key-generation algorithm is going to sit in a tight loop, doing the exact calculations over and over for the weeks of wall-clock time it would take to sample any actual key data by acoustical means.

    All this article "proves" is that a CPU's current drain is vaguely correlated to the type of instructions it's executing. In a modern multitasking OS, that's not even a useful basis for traffic analysis.

  22. Re:Some guy was investigated for excercising the F by LostCluster · · Score: 3, Informative

    Even if the FBI/NSA can't manage to decode your data, the fact remains if they get to look at your HD via a warrent and they discover 20 GB of encrypted data rather than anything readable, they know you're hiding something from their view.

    That discovery encrypted data can still be used as evidence in justifying further warrants... while discovering 20 GB of Britney Spears music in readable form would most likely cause the investigation to give up on worrying about the contents of that hard drive.

  23. Patenting. by Zangief · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you go to the site of the DPA attack,Cryptographic Research, you can see that they have already have patents on Systems to protect against these kind of attacks. So it's not like they have developed anything (I don't know if they have) but you can already pay them to get protection from this kind of attack! yay!

    1. Re:Patenting. by nzkbuk · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be just as good an idea to get a patient on doing these attacks and then monopolize on that ?

  24. Kinda like that CPU speed crack by suso · · Score: 4, Informative

    This sounds kinda like that crack that the college student found in 1995 dealing with the speed of the CPU determining what random numbers the host would pick. A good reason not to keep your CPU info in the HINFO line of a DNS zone file.

  25. Re:Some guy was investigated for excercising the F by GundyRage · · Score: 1

    Small nit-pick: presumed innocent until proven guilty.

  26. Is this actually possible? by idiot900 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Even at a 96 kHz sampling rate, the maximum frequency that can be sampled is 44 kHz. How could one hope to extract a certain few bits from a recording when the CPU's instruction throughput is many times that? Most of the information that would need to be examined wouldn't make it onto the recording. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems Nyquist leaves this idea dead in the water.

    1. Re:Is this actually possible? by Insount · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > How could one hope to extract a certain few bits from a recording when
      > the CPU's instruction throughput is many times that?

      The few bits you're trying to extract may have an observable influence on global statistics, especially when you can affect the value of some other bits. See for example Boneh and Brumley's timing attack on OpenSSL.

    2. Re:Is this actually possible? by Doctor+Wonky · · Score: 5, Informative

      What they did was, create tight loops performing the same operation over and over. And found that different operations tend to result in different sorts of noise on the power supply, resulting in different sounds from the capacitors.

      Remember though with their 96,000 Hz sampling rate, a 1 Ghz CPU performs over 10,000 instructions per sample.

      Air does not vibrate fast enough, and there are no microphones with frequency response high enough to let you look at individual operations.

      So I guess, if you knew the characteristics well enough, you could record the sound of the capacitors and say 'Hey, this guy is running GnuPG' on it. I don't see a concievable way to figure out the keys and this article doesn't suggest one.

    3. Re:Is this actually possible? by Welsh+Dwarf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      the key, no, but log(10) of the key, you might well be able to have a fare guess at, and that already eliminates one hell of a lot of the factorization troubles...

      --
      Ask 8 slackers a question, get 10 awnsers (a citation, but I can't remember from who)
    4. Re:Is this actually possible? by Jim+Starx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't think the idea is to extract certain bits. This hasn't moved out of the concept phase. Even when it does it probably won't go extrodinarily far in terms of practical applications. The point is just that information can be gathered. It may not be bits, but it can tell you how much work the computer is doing, when it's doing it, and as the examples show there is a possibility of determining what type of operations are being performed. Your not going to "hear" they key or anything like that. But you may get a little snippet of info that reduces the time it takes to perform a brute force attack. Every little bit of info helps when talking about breaking encryption.

      --
      The darkness... controls the music. The music... controls the soul.
    5. Re:Is this actually possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the DPA paper, it explains the statistics behind this attack. The short answer is, you repeat the same cryptographic operation multiple times. The key is constant and noise is not. Therefore, over time, noise averages away and the item left is your signal (key).

      If Boneh/Brumel can extract a key from SSL by measuring the timing over a LAN, you can certainly get good enough samples from sound.

    6. Re:Is this actually possible? by Ernesto+Alvarez · · Score: 1

      So I guess, if you knew the characteristics well enough, you could record the sound of the capacitors and say 'Hey, this guy is running GnuPG' on it. I don't see a concievable way to figure out the keys and this article doesn't suggest one.


      I don't either, but looking at those two areas that correspond to the generation of the primes p and q you could say "This guy is using GPG with xxx bit keys".

      Even worse, if those lines happened to be very dissimilar, you could probably assume that the key is weak (because one of the primes would be too small, and easy to factor out of n). I don't think the GPG guys would fall for that, but maybe somone other would.
  27. I've tried this... by bhmit1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...but all I heard was "Dave, what are you doing Dave?"
    Hmm, maybe I should put away the screwdriver.

    1. Re:I've tried this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...but all I heard was "Dave, what are you doing Dave?"

      Dave's not here, man...

    2. Re:I've tried this... by ByteSlicer · · Score: 1

      Try removing the core memory modules. Works for me every time...

  28. Encryption is part of checks and balances. by Roman_(ajvvs) · · Score: 4, Insightful
    By encrypting your data, you are bringing unnecessary suspicion upon yourself

    Encryption inhibits surveillance by ANYONE. That the government falls under the category of anyone is secondary to most encryption desires and uses.

    If someone was attempting avoidence/prevention of potential government investigation, then the act of encrypting wouldn't make it more or less likely. They make use of encryption because they have some information they don't want the government to know. It's not because they use encryption but due to any relevant knowledge they have, that a person should ellicit investigation by their government. And then knowledge pertaining only to those things that governments should worry about (murder, fraud, and other criminal acts).

    So by encrypting the code on my laptop as a security precaution, you're saying I bring unnecessary suspicion upon myself? Noone but my company and its business competitors has an interest in the trade secrets I manage and create during the course of my business. Therefore I use encryption as a means of self-defense. I inhibit investigation by those not authorized by me or my company. The act of investigation could very well be illegal. I would not give my government blanket access to my trade secrets, when I have no control over what they do with them. They should have no interest in them. in fact, by wanting to enhance surveillance of those things which they declare to not have an interest in and would normally have no involvement in is suspicious in itself. Encryption is a tool and is about as dangerous as a screwdriver.

    --
    click-clack, front and back. I'm not moving this car otherwise.
    1. Re:Encryption is part of checks and balances. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sicko

    2. Re:Encryption is part of checks and balances. by sexygirl.jpg.vbs · · Score: 1

      >>Encryption is a tool and is about as dangerous as a screwdriver.

      Or a boxcutter?

    3. Re:Encryption is part of checks and balances. by raodin · · Score: 1

      Much less dangerous than a screwdriver. You can't stab someone in the eye with encryption.

  29. Relevant to chipcards? by kasperd · · Score: 1

    Obviously this attack requires physical access to the machine. And with physical access to the machine there are easier ways to extract keys. So this is really only relevant if you want to protect against somebody with physical access, that wouldn't perform a simpler attack, which could involve disassembling the machine. I think some chipcards you would use to protect keys is a case, where you might worry about such attacks. But how much noise does a chipcard produce, I think with those it would make more sense to meassure the power consumption. Where are the other cases, where you really need to worry about this?

    --

    Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    1. Re:Relevant to chipcards? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "So this is really only relevant if you want to protect against somebody with physical access"

      While it's true this requires you to have had physical access to the machine at some point, it's the time and level of access that are the issue.

      For instance while it is fairly rare to get the level of physical access you need to employ other attacks on a bank terminal, it's a breeze to get the level of access you need to do this.

      You don't need to login, you don't need to open the case/bypass locks on it/damage it/etc. You don't need to be able to move the drives into another system or get boot access. You don't need to depend on any particular device being installed (floppy for instance).

      This could successfully be employed on a system with a padlocked case, an armed guard 10ft away, and the latest greatest filesystem encryption/authentication etc.

      Just walk by, brush the case with a bug coated in "stick my ass to case"(R) TM 2004. And continue on your way unnoticed.

      Physical access and knowledge alone arent a guarantee you'll get into a system, there are levels of physical access (something commonly ignored in statements indicating that if you have physical access you own the system).

      For instance, 99.9% of the time, physical access to a terminal is secured to the point that you couldn't successfully short the CMOS or boot off a floppy or open the case and fiddle with the innards.

  30. What was once old is new again? by Bob+Bitchen · · Score: 1

    Eavesdropping is an old technique, it's interesting that it's being touted as something new. Okay so the context is a bit different but not all that different. Is even the context all that new? It may be new to the authors (and readers?) but it's probably not new to those folks that employ creative techniques to snoop. A microphone works great to "log" keystrokes. The delays between key presses can be used to create a pattern that in turn can define exactly what's been typed. Passive listening devices have been employed for years, sometimes going undetected for years. A cell phone could turn into a monitoring device. So there really appears to be no such thing as a secret afterall. Where's my quantum encryption...?

    --
    http://tinyurl.com/3t236
  31. My computer tells me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    When I listen to my computer, it just tells me "Snap, crackle, burn!"

    1. Re:My computer tells me... by hostyle · · Score: 1

      Your computer? Or your breakfast cereal? Theres a difference you know.

      --
      Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
  32. I DON'T THINK THE PARENT WAS A TROLL MODS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Generic message here.

    $

  33. I listen to my computer... by JanusFury · · Score: 3, Funny

    It tells me to troll Slashdot, and buy Kenny G albums.

    I'm starting to think it doesn't have my best interests at heart...

    --
    using namespace slashdot;
    troll::post();
    1. Re:I listen to my computer... by ColaMan · · Score: 1

      yeah, trolling slashdot is bad for your Karma, man.

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
  34. Noise from HLT state etc.. by Anubis333 · · Score: 2

    Anyone who uses software powersaving/CPU cooling in windows or linux has heard this noise. Programs like CPUIdle et all put the processor into an HLT state and cool it significantly (12+ degrees here). I run the thing to cool my massive laptop which would get quite hot during renders and things, what with it's 10K RAID etc.. I hear this hum in a lot of electronics that have no moving parts (routers, computers, etc..), and have always wondered about it. In a chat on IRC we chalked it up to electric frequency vibration.

    I have also worked on some PCs that make the hum during *any* processor use, like scrolling a webpage, etc..

    1. Re:Noise from HLT state etc.. by 0x0d0a · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The most common thing I've found to induce audible noise (I use a SB Live, and can easily hear this with even cheap speakers) is to demute the sound card inputs that aren't connected to anything -- like CD audio and whatnot -- and then start moving my PS/2 mouse, which generates a fairly slow sequence of signals, producing a definite buzz. Video redraw also can do this -- dragging windows works well as well, and what's on the screen (oddly enough, lots of white areas seems to cause more of a buzz) has an impact.

      It's really amazing how dirty a computer power supply is -- I also picked up a headphone preamp that fits inside a 5.25" drive bay, and can optionally run off the computer power supply. If it's running off the power supply, I get a *very* noisy signal that is affected by things like hard drive access.

    2. Re:Noise from HLT state etc.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your portable kicks a lot of ass @_@ I wanted to do something similar with a commodore 64 SX but didn't have the heart to and just repaired it instead.

    3. Re:Noise from HLT state etc.. by spotteddog · · Score: 1

      It's not really amazing if you have ever removed the cover from a computer power supply. On desktop systems, most - if not all, of the leads exiting the supply for a given voltage are connected in parallel with no filters between them. If you wanted an electrically clean, electrically quiet power supply, you would need to add filtering in series with each individual output.

      --
      . there used to be a sig here.....
  35. mod parent down, -1 stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
    Did you even read the article? This comes from before the pictures of the sounds, even, and I quote:

    The recordings below were made under nearly ideal conditions: the microphone was placed 20cm from the recorded computer, the PC case was opened and noisy fans were disconnected (where applicable). Comparable results where achieved under more realistic conditions (i.e., the subject computer is intact and placed 1m to 2m from the microphone) using more expensive audio equipment.
  36. The other shoe dropping by Effugas · · Score: 4, Informative

    Shamir, once again pointing out something absolutely brilliant and (in retrospect) totally obvious, did forget to include something rather important in his announcement:

    The particular pattern of CPU operations executed while an RSA private key is executed varies depending on that RSA private key. Given a rough estimate of the pattern of CPU operations executed, the set of possible RSA private keys is greatly reduced. So it becomes much, much easier -- possibly trivial, particularly if you have a chosen plaintext scenario -- to extract a private key from an otherwise secure system. Consider an e-voting machine with an audio system for handicapped access -- with nothing but a very sensitive microphone in the booth, you might be able to determine the private key used to sign votes (and thus gain the capability to spoof votes elsewhere).

    And of course, this would be a very, very successful attack against an RSA private key embedded within a trusted computing environment. Processors -- even those encased in epoxy -- still need power, and variable amounts depending on what they're doing. The brilliance here is that rather than needing some very expensive analog energy drain measurement equipment, you just need a sound card. It's a side channel attack for the masses.

    Very very cool work. Wow.

    --Dan

    1. Re:The other shoe dropping by Burstwave · · Score: 1

      Intriguing commentary. Your explanation showcases why this publication represents a potentially valuable method of extracting cryptographic keys. Do you have an idea of how much of a reduction in keyspace size this technique could confer?

    2. Re:The other shoe dropping by Effugas · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, to use the scientific term, "it depends". I've been thinking about this (like about ten thousand other crypto people) throughout the day. Certainly, Brumley and Boneh's attack will work (and probably better, because 1/44,100 is microsecond resolution): http://crypto.stanford.edu/~dabo/papers/ssl-timing .pdf

      We do have more data than just time, too -- we have instruction profiles. If it's possible to absolutely know the input to the RSA signing function, and it's possible to alter that input while still knowing the (probably hashed) result, then you can get a set that looks like:

      RSA(Known_Hash_1, Unknown_RSA_Private) = Known_CPU_Profile1
      RSA(Known_Hash_2, Unknown_RSA_Private) = Known_CPU_Profile2
      RSA(Known_Hash_3, Unknown_RSA_Private) = Known_CPU_Profile3 ...
      RSA(Known_Hash_N, Unknown_RSA_Private) = Known_CPU_ProfileN

      So you're solving for Unknown_RSA, based on the differentials in CPU profiles. Not trivial, mind you -- but absolutely fascinating.

      --Dan

  37. Forget capacitors, listen to the keyboard. by Hans+Lehmann · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Other than fans & hard drives, I don't think I've ever heard noise from any machine I've ever worked on, though back in the old days we would hold an AM radio next to the computer, which would give very distinct noise patterns as the CPU went about its business.

    If you really want to do some acoustic evesdropping, listen to the keyboard. It's got a much larger signal to begin with (from across the room, instead of having to paste your ear to the computer case.) Since there are always slight mechanical differences between keys on any given keyboard, I would think that the sound spectrum would also be slightly different. Being able to always listen in on the same user would also help, since most people are somewhat consistent regarding which finger they use on which key. (Evesdropping on people who were smart enough to take a touch-typing class in high school is also a big plus.)

    Assuming you could discern between the acoustic fingerprint of 100 different keys, then it's just a matter of figuring out which sound goes with which key. It's a simple substitution cypher, which are almost trivial to break.

    Sneak your cell phone into your boss's office, set it to silent mode and plug in a headset so that you can set it to auto-answer when a call comes in. Then, while your boss is busy typing dirty notes to his mistress, you call your cell phone, start recording it, and presto, you've got a keylogger without ever having touch his computer or the software on it. Then, at your next performance review, you convince him to give you a hefty raise.

    ...Profit!!!

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    1. Re:Forget capacitors, listen to the keyboard. by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      Or just use a camera cell phone.

    2. Re:Forget capacitors, listen to the keyboard. by BubbleNOP · · Score: 1

      I noticed that IBM Thinkpad laptops make a very distinct noise when you perform tasks that access memory very heavily. When you access the disk the noise is different.

  38. Sound vs. electromagnetic emanations by roosterx · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've heard of Tempest emanations/ Van Ecks for eavesdropping. Supposedly the technique can grab keystrokes from remote machies. Just google for "tempest eavesdropping" if you want info on this.

    1. Re:Sound vs. electromagnetic emanations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  39. Re:Some guy was investigated for excercising the F by jafiwam · · Score: 1

    So the logical thing to do is make the encrypted files play like MP3s of Britany or MC Hammer and it's perfectly safe.

    As long as you never accidentally press "Play" that is.

  40. CMU by Rinisari · · Score: 1

    I remember Adi Shamir talked about this at his talk at Carnegie Mellon in March. He gave a brief description and said that it was in the works. So many people doubted it.

    pfft

  41. You're a tyrannical idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Investigations are an important part of the justice system. Though the tenet is "innocent until proven guilty", it's only possible to prove someone guilty by means of an investigation.

    By encrypting your data, you are bringing unnecessary suspicion upon yourself. I wouldn't be surprised if the FBI's powers are enhanced to include surveillance of you and your data.

    Using your logic you would approve of the old KGB or the FBI's COINTELPRO tactics. On the same vein I guess we should just do a BCS on every airline passenger and stuff'em into an orange jumpsuit to guard against another 9/11 hijacking. What you are advocating is a "prison state". By your words you want to remove the following from the US Constitution:

    Amendment IV

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Thankfully in 1215 we got the Magna Carta to protect us from tyrants like you.

    My great-grandfather, who was killed by Mussolini fighting to save his country, is spinning in his grave.

  42. Maybe you should just get modded down yourself... by centralizati0n · · Score: 1

    Well, maybe, just maybe, I wanted info about theories of how far you could actually be away from the laptop to retrieve the sounds, or the type of room the laptop was placed in that would provide the most opportune moment for capturing the sounds. Maybe I wanted to know how degraded the results could be in order to get the info about the processing. Maybe you should just crawl back into your cave, AC.

  43. I beg to differ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To say that encrypting one's files is automatically suspicious is neither tyrannical nor idiotic. It is absolutely based in reality.

    The fact of the matter is that one typically needs a valid reason to use encryption. One also needs a valid reason to buy several hundred pounds of fertilizer. It is the FBI's responsibility to investigate such strange behavior and determine whether the action taken appears legitimate or nefarious.

    No one is guilty in an investigation. However, the appearance of guilt is engendered when one acts like a paranoid, anti-government loon.

    1. Re:I beg to differ by pherris · · Score: 1
      To say that encrypting one's files is automatically suspicious is neither tyrannical nor idiotic. It is absolutely based in reality.

      I consult for a very small company with a database of information that is worth >$100k US. It is by far the most complete listing of it's type and there a few people that would love to have it. The owner once turned down $100k for it. Is it encrypted? Of course it is. It would be irresponsible of me as the admin not to encrypt. I personally have a few encrypted files that contain most of the code I've written (on my own time) over the years. Until I decide what to do with it it's better off locked up and safe from theft. Both these actions have nothing to do with crime but the protection from crime.

      I think what the grandparent comment might of meant was that the 4th Amendment is a basic right and encryption is a means of exercising that right.

      Place it in the same context as gun ownership in the US. Just because you own a firearm, and many crimes are committed with firearms then all those who own firearms must be suspected of an involvement with crime. Of course this is not true and the vast majority of gun owners are peaceful, law abiding people.

      A lot of crimes are committed with cars yet the police don't think every driver could be a criminal. "Encryption does not commit crime, criminals commit crime."

      --
      "And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
    2. Re:I beg to differ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is impossible to legally buy a gun without undergoing a background check to verify the likelihood of a person who is purchasing a gun to commit crimes.

      As such, a former felon is unable to purchase one. So too would a person with a violent personal history be restricted in their purchasing capacity (though perhaps not outright prevented from buying).

      If you are saying that encryption is as innocuous as buying a Pepsi, then I would have to disagree. Encryption flies in the face of the concept of an open society. It undermines the very idea of trustworthiness by implying that the encrypter has something to hide. It prevents others from having full access to any pertinent information which may be useful in making a decision regarding the encrypting party.

      Encryption is a necessary part of our rights and heritage, but it stands to reason that such a powerful tool ought to be licensed and regulated, just as guns are in your analogy.

    3. Re:I beg to differ by pherris · · Score: 1
      It is impossible to legally buy a gun without undergoing a background check to verify the likelihood of a person who is purchasing a gun to commit crimes.

      This is true. Depending on where you live in the US certain conditions can proclued one from purchasing a long arm. Federal law has additional restrictions on short arms (aka hand guns). If your record is "clean" then you may buy and own a firearm without the guilt of being suspected of committing a crime. The root comment says encryption should be held to a higher standard "guilty until proven innocence". That is against US law.

      If you are saying that encryption is as innocuous as buying a Pepsi, then I would have to disagree. Encryption flies in the face of the concept of an open society.

      Do you leave your front door open at night? Do you leave the keys to your car in it all the time? Of course not. Even society has theft, and every society has locks. A lock on your car, your house or data files is there for the same reason: to keep those item inwhich you own out of the hands of others. By your logic of an "open society" the goverment should outlaw car ignition locks.

      Encryption is a necessary part of our rights and heritage, but it stands to reason that such a powerful tool ought to be licensed and regulated, just as guns are in your analogy.

      Licenses cryptography? IMO that's nuts . If the goverment can license something then they can outlaw it. Cryptography is the muscle behind the 4th Admendment. It protects us from unwarranted goverment intrusion and keeps our information safe from theft. Try moving to China were they "license cryptography".

      Using your logic posting as an AC and not posting your real name "flies in the face of the concept of an open society". Are you hiding something?

      --
      "And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
  44. Interesting... by boola-boola · · Score: 5, Interesting
    It is interesting to note that Adi Shamir (one of the co-authors) is one of the three people who came up with RSA-encryption

    R = Ron Rivest
    S = Adi Shamir
    A = Len Adleman

    1. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is interesting... someone mod parent up please! =)

  45. No no (Re:No) by po8 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Uh, no. Your analysis runs contrary to cryptanalytic principles and the history of these sorts of attacks.

    If you spot me 1 bit of key information, you have by definition halved the work for an attack. In this specific analysis, I need only consider those settings of key bits (in this case, bits of p and q) that correspond to observed behavior for an interval of the spectogram. This means that I can potentially crack the key in time almost linear in the size of the key, rather than completely exponential.

    The work on timing attacks and power attacks uses very similar sorts of information, and the anlysis used here will likely be similar also. This is why Shamir, who is certainly qualified to evaluate the work at this point, describes it as "proof of concept": it would be surprising if the observed information fails to extend to a practical attack. It's just that in science, you publish when you have anything interesting to report, so that folks know you got there first.

    1. Re:No no (Re:No) by Jim+Starx · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I think your parent hit it on the nose. You're never going to "hear" individual bits. The computer processes at speeds that are fucking orders higher then the best sample rates known to man. The atoms of air just can't be excited that fast. They can't hold that type of information. Shamir is qualified, but that doesn't mean everything he works on is going to be a cryptographic holy grail. This is really interesting stuff, and there's certainly big potential here, but lets not kid ourselves about the possibilities.

      --
      The darkness... controls the music. The music... controls the soul.
    2. Re:No no (Re:No) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you spot me 1 bit of key information, you have by definition halved the work for an attack.

      IIRC cracking 1024-bit asymmetric encryption requires roughly 2^112 operations. Wouldn't that mean that the problem is essentially solved when you have gotten 112 of those 1024 bits?

    3. Re:No no (Re:No) by po8 · · Score: 1

      You don't need to hear individual bits. You just need to see a statistical difference in speed over iterated modular exponentiations. See Kocher's seminal 1996 paper on timing attacks for a good explanation of this type of analysis. Note that Kocher is measuring operation times on the order of 10ms. This is well within-bounds for an audio measurement.

      Not being a professional cryptographer myself, I'm really not qualified to say for sure how practical this attack is. However, I can't rule it out on the basis of my amateur knowledge. I'd say there's a good chance it could work.

    4. Re:No no (Re:No) by Jim+Starx · · Score: 1
      You don't need to hear individual bits. You just need to see a statistical difference in speed over iterated modular exponentiations.

      Well in the post I responded to you made mention of spotting you one bit, I responded that the /. article really isn't discussing the possibility of hearing bits.

      Timing attacks aren't really relevent either, it's a diffrent type of attack then what we're talking about. They would certainly be more effective when used in tandem, but they are seperate topics.

      Me, you, and Transient0 are all in agreement. There is definitly the potential for this to work. But for clarification this isn't about guessing peoples keys or bits or such, it's about guessing the operations and algorithms being performed.

      --
      The darkness... controls the music. The music... controls the soul.
  46. Usefull for spying by Darthmalt · · Score: 1

    given a good enogh mic i'm sure it would be easier to plant one of these near a computer than actually breaking into the coputer itself.
    I've got 3 computers running side by side good luck figuring out which computer the noise came from.
    course you could always install an old hard drive that clicks everytime it's accessed that should cover up the noise pretty well.

  47. Could this be used on console systems by Marble68 · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this technique could be used on console gaming systems like the XBOX?

    Also, how about the proprietary circuit boards in automobiles?

    Perhaps someone more familiar with this could elaborate or expound?
    Thanks!

    --
    /me sips his coffee and ponders a new sig...
  48. Re:Some guy was investigated for excercising the F by Jane_Dozey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Steganography anyone?
    I odn't think any government who has reason to believe you to be hiding something would fail to check if it was in plain view or not.
    Otherwise criminals would all be using those ghost markers kids use :)

    --
    Silly rabbit
  49. Whatever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The attack doesn't work.

  50. Sounds, Electronics, and the Hound :) by Zizkus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Having worked in telecommunications as well as consumer electronics and computing, I've played a lot :) One of the more interesting things for fun was to poke around with a induction amplifier, you know, the "hound" in the fox and hound tone generator/ handheld probe that the phone guys use for tracing copper thru a building. It is pretty sensitive and I've found many fun sounds by waving it around in various analog and digital equipment, it kinda gives a unique viewpoint. Used in different locations in a PC it picks up various interesting sounds that are very different according to what the system is doing, and where you are probing, memory, chipset, io/chips, cpu etc. Never found it very good for troubleshooting PC's, but lots of fun! Also, I think the sounds you can hear around running electronics is partly caused by sympathetic viberation induced in the air molecules by high frequency energy changes happening, especially on the buses where there are long runs exposed, as well as perhaps by the caps, (?), could it be the aluminum in the caps is reacting to the energy field?, most of the round tall caps you see on a board are used on low frequency mainly power filtering applications.

  51. Re:Some guy was investigated for excercising the F by Dolly_Llama · · Score: 1

    Even if the FBI/NSA can't manage to decode your data, the fact remains if they get to look at your HD via a warrent and they discover 20 GB of encrypted data rather than anything readable, they know you're hiding something from their view.

    That discovery encrypted data can still be used as evidence in justifying further warrants... while discovering 20 GB of Britney Spears music in readable form would most likely cause the investigation to give up on worrying about the contents of that hard drive.


    If you really want to strap on the tin foil hat, that warrant you mentioned 1) Doesn't need to be approved by a judge in done in the name of terrorism 2) They don't have to tell you about it. So if they were interested in the encrypted stuff on your hard drive, they would come in, do a bitwise copy and decypt and their leisure.

    --

    Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan

  52. Not Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please ignore the other AC. The parent bored me so much I fell asleep and have only now woken up, discovering that I've missed my train.

    We must defeat these terrorists who induce the academics of this country into semi-permanent comas.

  53. Mod Down: ObviousGuy is a well known troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's pure flamebait. That's his life. Sad really.

  54. Playing TI-99/4 games by ear by LoadWB · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I recall reading rumors of a blind fella who could play MunchMan on the TI-99/4 just by listening to the sounds in the background of the game.

    While my experience is no where near that in-depth, I do remember that the computer made distinct sounds when performing certain tasks, such as reading GROM, initializing, running BASIC programs (I recall that some statements also have distinct sounds as well.)

    Since then I have been able to detect certain sounds from my machines which indicate normal operations; to some extent I think we all do, just as we do with cars to "know" that something isn't right. And it's been pretty consistent through all of my computers: Commodore 64, 128D, Atari 800XL, various Amigas (amazing things heard by holding your ear to the A500 power supply,) many desktop PCs and notebooks. Even some console systems generate sounds under operation (an old NES on my shelf with a bad filter cap is good for this.)

    I'm curious to know what correlations between design type, grounding, processor architecture, and other factors exist for this. Might be worth investigating like this chap did, should I find the time to do so.

    1. Re:Playing TI-99/4 games by ear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe his name was Tommy and it was pinball not MunchMan.

  55. That reminds me when.... by twoslice · · Score: 0

    I was to be able to tell if a 8088/8086 CPU was under high CPU load just by listening to the high pitched sound it made.

    --

    From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
  56. so what... by digid · · Score: 1

    This isn't news. Alias' Marshall has been doing it for years.

  57. I'm running Seti@home. Listen all you want. by dharma21 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How can you differentiate between computations , when the CPU is at 100% utilization all the time? :)

  58. Well... by marcansoft · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually sound from computers can come from many places, and sometimes you han make out a hell of a lot of info about what a user is doing.

    Typical CPU HLT execution either by the O/S (linux and w2k or so i thought... w2k didn't do it too good when I tried it) or by an external program (on ring 0) e.g CpuIDLE will cause several things, from what I've experienced:

    Variable fan speed: Typical cheap comes-with-case power supplies regulate +5V whiwh surprise! gets a greater power draw when CPU is busy. Result, you fan sounds higher pitched when you ger a greater CPU load since +12V isn't regulated and the draw on +5V affects it. My newer power supply (old one died) doesn't seem to do this anymore, my old one, especillay with my old CoolerMaster fan (pretty noisy) was exceptionally good at this.

    Transformer/inductance/capacitor hum: when I turn off the main CPU fan you can distinguish some hums from several places in my pc, exclusind the power supply fan. Causes can be anything from sound being played thorugh some soundcard transformer to CPU drawing more power though something.

    Also, MANY other noises plague PCs:

    HDD head movement. I'm sure someone has developed a way to measure approximately what area of an hdd a user is accesing by listening to head noise.

    CDROM spinning/head moving/tracking/focussing. Wow do these 52x drives make a helluva lot of noise!

    Modem. Surely a mike placed next to the modem transformer could pick up the signal, and it then could easily be decoded to get the stream of PPP packets.

    speakers/soundcard. If I crack up the volume, depending on inputs selected, etc I can easily hear different noises, when I move a window, when I scroll something, etc they all make different noises/click rates. Of course it scares the hell out of me when someone IM's me through Jabber with that ding-dong noise.

    Take that and keyboard/mouse/CRT monitor/whatever noise and you have a wealth of information which you can use to predict what a user was doing.

  59. Mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the researcher...

  60. P == NP? by dustinbarbour · · Score: 1

    Eh.. What does it matter? I just completed a five-minute proof that P == NP! Have I had it reviewed yet? Well, no, but I guarantee it's correct! So now all I need to do is tell someone other than /.

  61. Next generation of tin foil hats by DrYak · · Score: 2, Funny

    Time to start designing tin foil hats... ...for your computer.

    Man, that is real geek stuff.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  62. Take off the tinfoil hat by ajs318 · · Score: 1

    The processor is operating at several gigahertz; in other words, the electrical signals are changing thousands of millions of cycles a second.

    A microphone will pick up frequencies from just shy of DC, to a few tens of kilohertz. Let's be really generous and suppose that the microphone can follow a vibration of 100kHz. A 2GHz signal will have changed 20 000 times in the same amount of time the microphone's diaphragm could have moved back and forth once. Need I say more?


    It's like the myth about hard disk data being recoverable even after several overwrites. It isn't -- that's how magnetic storage devices work. And if it was, then somebody or other would have designed a drive that used the phenomenon to pack more bits in a given space.

    But, there are plenty of reasons why somebody might find it useful to convince The General Public and others that they were leaking data. Selling products and services ostensibly to stop such leaks is one of them; persuading people to comply "because we can tell if you're misbehaving and we'll punish you twice as hard if you're lying about it" is another. It is all just classic misinformation.


    There are easier ways of getting at someone's data anyway ..... start by waving pound notes in their face, or threatening them with a knife. Anyone with a family is even more vulnerable.

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    1. Re:Take off the tinfoil hat by MadHungarian1917 · · Score: 1

      True a _Microphone_ can only pick up signals in the low KHz range but there are other acoustic transducers other than the bog standard mike.

      Remember acoustic energy is also called vibration and objects can vibrate in to the low Mhz ranges.

  63. Re:This just in ..... by dimss · · Score: 1

    In Russia, there are _many_ companies that sell special equipment protecting your computers from being "listened" to. Look:

    http://www.yandex.ru/yandsearch?text=%EF%FD%EC%E 8% ED

    Almost all links are related to this subject. Sometimes they sell bizarre hardware which is required by secret services, major businesses and militaries.

  64. Bzzzt! Wrong! by redwyrm · · Score: 1

    There is a reason they tried this on RSA, and not, say, encrypting a large file with some symmetric key algo: All operations in the RSA cryptosystem involve modular exponentiation, which means that for relatively large chunks of time (a few dozen microseconds, maybe), is either squaring a very large number, multiplying it by another very large number, or reducing the very large number to a not-so-large number. Each of these operations might last long enough to have a detectable acoustic signature, knowing the particular sequence of operations (square, multiply, etc.) would tell you the private key. But that would only work if the computer is decrypting, signing, or creating a new key.

  65. FAQ by Insount · · Score: 4, Informative

    (I'm a co-author of the presentation.)

    The web page was extended to include a FAQ discussing the issues brought up here.

  66. Good for passphrases and typed-in information by GQuon · · Score: 1

    True, listening to the keyboard is valuable, if you either

    - Have full physical access to the computer, and can key in identical pass phrases
    or
    - The text is typed into the computer as you listen.

    Without access to an encrypted secret key or if the data has another source than the keyboard, you can't get the data by listening to the keyboard.
    Each attack has it's own advantages and disadvantages.

    --
    Irene KHAAAAAAN!
  67. More fun in sight! by meanroy · · Score: 1

    Wow! Great.
    So now we have *yet another way* to spy/be spied upon!
    Van Ech Phreaking (original paper, SW source for Echbox, simplified description ) is bad enough, now we have to watch for shotgun mikes!

    Hook this up with Wardriving and Let The Games Begin.

    Although, apparently, this has a *LONG* way to go before a full password capture is feasible using the technique.

    (By the way there is a wireless security presentation here that is quite good (had info on some stuff I hadn't heard about. For example Warchalking)

  68. Re:Some guy was investigated for excercising the F by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 1

    With the introduction of IP telephony, one of the first things people are going to want is encryption or people could just sniff packets and record your phone conversation. So telecomm equipment vendors like Avaya, Alcatel, Nortel, etc must allow for wire taps (as per the FCC).

    --
    --------
    Free your mind.
  69. reminiscences of musical interference by obtuse · · Score: 1

    Yes, my dad wrote a bunch of programs for the MicroAce* that worked this way. With no sound output, you just manipulated some bus signal or other, and put a radio antenna close to the back of the vacuum formed plastic case. I don't think anybody would ever bother emulating most of those programs. Besides he published lots of them in the zx81 hobbyist magazines.

    *The MicroAce was a build it yourself clone of the Timex/Sinclair that was cheap. After all, the Timex/Sinclair was almost $100 at the time.

    Even further offtopic: Only a year or two later, a friend of mine with an Apple wrote something he called Monkeywrite. This was very much like what is now Dissociated Press.

    --
    Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
  70. Fuuuuuck! by Phybersyk0 · · Score: 1

    >brain pop

    it's like Van Eck, only scarier.

    makes me wonder though...
    Seems to open the door for a true broadcastable computer virus.
    I mean, if you can can get sound out, and it means something, why not put instruction-filled sound in, overriding currently queued instructions...

    I've finally figured out how Cobra Commander is able to appear on ALL televisions at once before revealing his plans to take over the world!

  71. Limited Applications by xquark · · Score: 1

    I think this form of signal sampling is limited to packages which implement
    to the cryptographic primitives without any "salt".

    The high industry standard for cryptographic implementations dictate that
    randomizing operations (operations which results don't effect the final
    result, but do disrupt both the process pipeline and the processor's energy
    consumption - hence sound output) be carried out during all cryptographic
    primitives.

    This enables each run of a cryptographic primitive to be unique as far as
    energy consumption and processes pumped through to the pipeline are
    concerned.

    It an interesting bit of research, but nothing new or extraordinary has
    been developed.

    Arash Partow
    __________________________________________ ________
    http://www.partow.net

    --
    Arash Partow's Philosophy: Be a person who knows what they don't know, and not a person who doesn't know.
  72. Technical pt w/ramifications for experiment result by sjalex · · Score: 1

    the graph showing no signal when the microphone is turned off is no surprise and proves nothing. The microphone being turned off closes (shorts) the circuit which would naturally soak any signal (no potential between neg and pos since they're shorted). If you killed the mic by opening the circuit, you would get environmental noise through your speakers, since as was mentioned the microphone and/or cable could act as an antenna in this condition. Additionally the "handkerchief" test case doesn't really prove anything either since as it was mentioned it's non-conductive and as such RF noise would go through it. what they need to eliminate relevant factors is not a audio noise filter but an RF noise filter such as an earth-grounded conductive mesh around the recording apparatus.

  73. Where in the World is Carmen Sandiago? by Belsical · · Score: 2, Informative

    When I was about 6, my dad had a work laptop that he brought home. It had a grey-scale screen, dual 3.5" floppies, 4 (I think) MB of RAM, and no hard drive.

    The only things he had for it was WordPerfect and "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiago?" Based on the sound of the spinning drive, I could decipher which of the multiple choice answers was correct to move to the next stage while the current stage was loading. After a while, I started plugging my ears while a stage was loading so the game didn't suck.

    --

    "There are no such things as mutual fantasies. Yours bore us and ours offend you."
    - Bill Maher
  74. I am listening to my CPU right now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    The audio circuitry on my ASUS motherboard is such that I can hear the CPU activity through the speakers at the normal volume settings. And based on the sound, I can tell how much the cpu
    is idle. Apparently, it is when linux puts the CPU in a halt state that it makes the noise because if I do something CPU intensive (such as gzipping the kernel) it is actually quieter.

    In the old days, I used to listen to the RS-232 signals going to the terminal since they shared an output line on the CPU with the audio signals. I couldn't tell exactly what was being printed but I could definitely recognize patterns.

    Later, I discovered that I could hear when the pattern changed on an ordinary CRT monitor displaying text. It was possible to tell, with my back to the computer, when, for example, a compilation completed and whether or not it was successful.

    So, there are other possible low bandwidth audio leaks besides the one mentioned.

  75. Re:Some guy was investigated for excercising the F by Charlotte · · Score: 1

    ... the fact remains if they get to look at your HD via a warrent and they discover 20 GB of encrypted data...

    One of the nice features of crypto on Linux is that you preseed the partition with random data dd-ed from /dev/random. Then when you start creating a filesystem you change around the bits on the disk, but it still looks like random data.

    I wonder if there's a way to see whether or not the disk has has a crypto filesystem on it, or if it was just being prepared for that purpose?

  76. an extension of the stethoscope idea by Mr.+Asdf · · Score: 1

    Good lock experts can break into a safe by using a stethoscope to listen to the tumblers in the lock. This is because they have a precise understanding of how the lock works, and a tool accurate enough to distinguish the differences (mainly the stethoscope and their ear). An absurd extension of this might be, if we had a precise understanding of the human brain, and instruments accurate enough to measure the differences in a paramter (like sound, heat, or electric current), one could put a stethoscope up to someone's head and know what they are thinking. Or use an infared signature, or EEG, etc. Equally absurd is knowing what a computer is "thinking" by listening to the noise of the CPU. But, with a precise understanding of the how the CPU works, and tools accurate enough to measure the signatures, it is theoretically possible.

  77. AES - Unproven claims. by Gunz · · Score: 1

    I remember reading about encryption standards, and how AES (I think it was AES) created random noise in the cpu to protect against this kind of attack. I cant find any sources backing me up, as I cant even remember where I had read this information. If anyone has information on this, I am sure others are interested also.

  78. Easily easily thwarted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This attack can be easily twarted by just running multitasking operating system, a short time slice and other tasks.

  79. Kocher. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Didn't Kocher mention something like this in relation to his now legendary "Timing attacks" paper?

  80. Re:Some guy was investigated for excercising the F by ztwilight · · Score: 1
    Even if the FBI/NSA can't manage to decode your data, the fact remains if they get to look at your HD via a warrent and they discover 20 GB of encrypted data rather than anything readable, they know you're hiding something from their view. That discovery encrypted data can still be used as evidence in justifying further warrants... while discovering 20 GB of Britney Spears music in readable form would most likely cause the investigation to give up on worrying about the contents of that hard drive.

    This is soon to become the exception. Mac OS X already has the ability to encrypt your ENTIRE home directory. Longhorn will have plenty of encryption as well. And paranoid people are increasing encrypting everything they can get their hands on.

    --
    Who moved my sig?
  81. The "Tin Foil Hat" solution... by ztwilight · · Score: 1

    1. Apply microphone to side of PC's case 2. Allow "Tin Foil" program to analyze the frequencies coming from your computer while it performs multiple encryption/decryption sessions. 3. Tin Foil program will then emit random combinations of those frequencies matching the CPU's frequencies through the PC's speakers, thus making any audial system compromise impossible.

    --
    Who moved my sig?
  82. Keeping the cpu busy fixed it for me. by Yggdrasil42 · · Score: 2, Informative
    In my case it started with mobo's with integrated audio. Even on low volume I can hear it clearly.

    Strange thing is that high cpu usage actually dampens the noise, so my solution was to run a distributed computing client (THINK, in my case, but others will do as well) to keep the cpu busy. Works perfectly, and I even forgot I had the problem until I read this post.

    I do think it's pretty lame that so many on-board audio chips have this problem.

  83. If they want to listen by Captain+DaFt · · Score: 1

    This oughtta give'em something to listen to: http://www.erikyyy.de/tempest/

    --
    The U.S. really needs an English to Wisdom dictionary.
  84. But what about multitasking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what I don't understand is how this would be practical in a multitasking environment. It's not that the CPU doesn't do anything else.

    So I have a lot of unrelated activities going on on my notebook -- say I am running iTunes in the background decoding mp3 files -- how are they going to tell the difference of the noise made by the CPU when encrypting/decrypting and decoding mp3 files?

  85. noisy inductors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    afaik, acoustic noise in dc-dc converters (as on a pc motherboard) emanates from the inductors, NOT from the capacitors ! The effect is known as "magnetostriction". Caps and coils should be placed in close proximity on the pcb, so by applying the freeze spray to the capacitors they most likely are are also freezing the inductors. Or at least changing the capacitance and hence the ripple current.