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Napster Gags University Over Fees
A. S. Bradbury writes "The Register reports that Napster is trying to prevent Ohio University from discussing details of its contract (such as the price). In order to gauge interest for the service, Ohio University posted a survey asking if students would be willing to pay $3 a month in order to opt-in to the service. Sean O'Malley, spokesman Communication Network Services at OU says "Napster called us today and said we should not publicize the details or discuss our contract." Penn State and the University of Rochester both currently have a contract with Napster, but are paying for the service with money that could be used elsewhere, rather than allowing students to opt in."
Somehow I don't really trust what Napster is doing now, is it normal for companies to make this kind of information public or not?
The story makes it sound like Napster has something to hide that when known could cause all kinds of trouble for them.
This is the sig that says NI (again)
Aren't the contracts that public universities enter supposed to be public information anyway? They are, after all, funded in part by tax dollars.
Every citizen should have the right to know exactly what their hard earned money is being spent on.
Somebody should start drafting the Freedom of Information Act request for this information tomorrow.
They've gone a long way, from being one of the trailblazers in filesharing, to a co-opted bully doing business through the RIAA sue-your-own-customers model.
It sounds like the admission of their discounted price is not going to please their subscribers either. Whoever they are. Anyone around here use it? I don't think they can really compete, to be honest. But I will continue to watch the online music wars with interest.
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
-- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
Depending on the nature of the contract, Napster may have every right to ask them to not disclose that information. It would seem a little awkward though that the schools are paying an apparently flat fee, regardless if the students opt in or not.
Right!
Limitations
# To burn to CD or MP3 player, you must purchase tracks separately
* $0.99 per track or $9.95 per album (You only pay this if you want to burn to CD or MP3 player.)
* Purchased tracks have no restrictions - unlimited copying, no expiration # Cannot download new tracks during summer or winter breaks * Tracks already downloaded still playable during breaks
What a joke!
Just wondering will they rollout at beta version...
As far as I know almost all colleges enter into secret backroom deals with software and operating system companies. This has two good effects for the colleges.
A: They don't have to explain to alumni why they spent a million rupees on frivolous software.
B: The people making the purchases don't get lynched for all the stupid mistakes they make.
What really stinks is that most colleges are at least partially state funded, and they protect these records from public scrutiny. It's a sucky deal, but no more sucky than the books that won't even be used that students are told to buy.
On an off topic note, does it make anyone else sick seeing the amount of IT classes that are taught through power point presentations rather than proffessor insight. If I never see a piece of crap programming book with by Thompson again it will be too soon!
"On the plus side, Napster users at the school would be able to download as much music as they like for $3 per month - Windows users only, of course.
Of course! I mean, those iPod/Mac yuppies already have iTunes, and share music with those Communist Loonix weirdos? No way.
Sadly, the DRM restrictions with Napster run high. Users can only make 3 copies of a song before the files become unplayable. In addition, students must pay 99 cents per song to move the file from their computer onto a CD or music playing device.
3 copies? 99 cents to move a song across some copper wires? Well, until the DRM is cracked, anyway.
Students would also only be able to download songs while they are on the school network. Once they leave school their music disappears.
Suuuuure. (See above about the DRM)
Has renting culture ever been more fun?"
*sigh* That statement is sooo true. It's a shame that the Napster name is still attached to this. In it's heyday, Napster showed a hint what a free culture could be - this is just stupid. I can't see thier service surviving in the same market as iTunes, not to mention thier total reliance on DRM to force money out of people. DRM is like balloon - once it's breached, it disappears - forever.
Napster is a zombie - it's already dead, it just doesn't know it yet.
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
Yeah, that's great. What are the chances that Napster is hosting a single band that I'm interested in listening to? Well, thanks to my tuition funds, some freshman kid somewhere can listen to his Limp Bizkit. Awesome. And to think, if I had done a little worse on my SATs, I would have been deprived the privilege of helping society in this way.
Breakfast served all day!
I'm waiting for the day when the iTMS give educational discount (never)
MY SECRET DIARIES
But to include it as part of a mandatory technology fee for ALL students is absurd. Not all students will even have internet access at home...
And that's just the point... This is a service that people would use at home. It has nothing to do with academics, or the health or social life of the students.
The administration at these universities must really have their heads up their asses to try a stunt like this.
If you people hate the RIAA that much, why not do something about it, such as boycott them, and make a point of buying only non-RIAA music?
Seriously, it really is incredible how many people there are here who blindly endorse P2P sharing, regardless of whether what they are sharing is legal or not, and then suddenly complain when the RIAA starts suing people. It is especially incredible when you consider that there was once a time when people here were saying, "Let the RIAA go ONLY after those folks who are pirating, rather than try to shut down a P2P network that has other uses besides piracy." Well, the RIAA is now doing EXACTLY that, and yet people are now continuing to complain.
For crying out loud: by now, nobody in their right mind can say that the RIAA has not given fair warning before suing people. I say, put up, or shut up. If you don't like the RIAA's policy, don't buy their stuff. It's that simple.
I realize this may be slightly off-topic, but the fact of the matter is this: I believe the RIAA has a legitimate case for going after piracy. However, the flip side to this is that piracy might not be such a huge problem from them if it were not for the fact that the RIAA and its members are basically overcharging for their mediocre products, and treating the artists unfairly.
If they were to treat the artists more fairly, lower their prices CONSIDERABLY, and give us better products than Britney Spears, they might have a better chance with me... But unfortunately, they have now shown that they are all shady crooks, and I for one am now making it a point NOT to use any RIAA-approved services like Napster, and I am also making a special point not to buy any RIAA CDs.
I'm sure a lot of universities are agreeing to this in the hopes that it will keep students from "pirating" music and thus keep the RIAA off their backs, but seeing as the students will still have to pay for the songs if they want to burn them to CD or listen to them on a mobile device, just how useful will this be?
Instead of paying to access the University network and paying to access Napster... why not just BYOA, download LimeWire and be free of the following evils:
On the other hand, I never went to University. I know that the U of R is in excess of $30k per year, though, and their student Internet access is a very slow broadband that everyone complains about.
-JemWhat's the big deal? Ohio U. are just trying to figure out if the deal would be worthwhile to its students before jumping in. It's much better than what Penn State and the University of Rochester did. I'd be pissed if I discovered that I was being charged for yet another service which I don't want or use.
I don't think that's flippant at all... it is pretty much the same kind of volume discount used everywhere else. I just think that regular napster customers might be a little annoyed about the apparent arbitrariness of the pricing system of what is essentially an intangible product. Sure, there is something being transferred here, but it's not like in wholesale/retail markup for example, where the discount actually reflects the decreased overheads in terms of packaging, handling and the like. It's probably splitting hairs, but i think it's a little different in application.
As *some* Australians might say, "same shit, different bucket".
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
-- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
Oh well. At least they are just dealing with Napster; my student fees go to Microsoft.
Open Source Sushi
maybe a few years ago, but not anymore. once universities learned how to get around laws about being not-for-profit, stuff like this (unis going into asshanded contracts) started to become more and more commonplace.
... i pay twice.
now for some OT which i'm sure will get mod'd down
it's pretty pathetic that the "academic tradition" of openness at universities (i'm speaking of public state schools, not private unis which can do whatever they want for all i care) is slowly being pushed to the wayside. universities are no longer run like places of education, but more like businesses. business has no place in education.
my state's Constitution states that (state college/uni) education must be affordable. in the past 2.5 years since we got stuck with a new president, tuition has consistently gone up. 5 new buildings have been built or are currently under construction, only one of which is used (partially) for teaching. the rest are completely dedicated to research.
the kicker is that this research is almost always funded by gov't grants (read: my and yours $$). yet, if i want to use technology developed on those grants, i have to pay for a license to use it
if a researcher here finds a cure for cancer, the uni's corporate arm will take ownership, and license it. that's damn sad. the days of places of higher education putting out freely available innovations are long gone thanks to the almighty ustpo, and the sad state of using patents to stifle innovation. i can only imagine the american forefathers are rolling in their graves.
vodka, straight up, thank you!
Both universities are on i2hub.com ;-)
Why pay the industry when i2hub has everything you want?
What sorts of student organizations exist to help get word out about this issue, and what have they done thus far?
If students start making a lot of noise about wanting this information disclosed, and the faculty tells Napster that the students want to know or they won't use the service, perhaps it might convince Napster to give the info.
I just hope someone cracks the stupid DRM scheme Napster uses now and puts them in their place.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
One source of ulcers for school administrators is the threat of being sued by the **AA or a major software vendor. That liability towers over bandwidth costs. If a university were to engage in some kind of contract with a company to fill student computer entertainment demands in a legal manner, the unversity would be somewhat legally shielded as they have appeared to have made a good faith attempt to curb piracy. Even if students start figuring out proxying methods to still get their P2P through the school's gateway, a DA would be less inclined to whipe out their endowment.
Drexel Univserity, for example, made a deal with Microsoft years back to let them hand out CDs to students packed with often-pirated software. This was not to save money on bandwidth from inevitable piracy, it was not a decision influenced by ethics; rather it was purely a cover-your-ass legal rhetorical maneuver because they did not want to get sued one day. An investment at a bargain price.
And what's with the title of this article anyway, talking about a company's non-disclosing pursuits, when the jist of the article addresses whether or not this should be an opt-in or general budget thing? Would anyone complain if their university comped everyone free HBO during this last Sopranos season? I doubt it, because this internet piracy thing is the incendiary hot button water-cooler thing whereas everybody knows HBO is a Good Thing (and that it is not TV).
1. Should the University implement this service?
Answer: NO
2. Would you subscribe?
Answer: NO
3. Do you think other students would subscribe?
Answer: NO
4. Do you feel this would be a viable alternative to illegal downloading?
Answer: NO
5. On a scale of 1 to 10, how effective would this be in reducing illegal downloads at Ohio University?
Answer: 1, No Effect.
How many labels are on that list?
Yeah, right, I'm gonna stand in the middle of Virgin or HMV with that list and compare it against every CD I look at ... duh. The staff will think I'm stocktaking ... or casing the joint for a midnight "visit".
Hm, well I could always dedicate a couple of days to memorising the list, I guess - or I could spend a couple of days watching paint dry. Tough choice.
I suppose the implication is that we're supposed to research the CDs before we go buy them. That's sad dude. That's worse than storing your CDs alphabetically.Nah ... here's the simplest solution - just keep stealing the fucking music like we've always done.
Yeah I know ... I should fight the good fight, but sorry, I just can't be arsed.
8.1.2...
somebody had to say it.
I think it is incredibly low to ask universities, which contribute an incalculable amount of research and knowledge that goes into making contemporary music and online distribution possible to act in a secretive manner regarding where students' tuition is going.
I think its totally scummy. Stop screwing around with our ability to make informed decisions. Well informed people make well educated people make people more likely to create value than Napster is obviously capable of.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Napster makes me gag every time I look at it. :D
you're an asshat.
Time was universities existed to educate young adults. Now it appears the exist to extend childhood. Personally I think the university of Ohio should empty the sandbox, not buy more toys to put in it. This sort of thing is nothing an educational institution should be soiling its hands with.
Companies are huge, diversified and rarely need to do more than lip service to boycotters. Many times you're boycutting one product they make while buying two others, because they have dozens of brand names, partnerships, licencing agreements etc.
Most of them seem to have taken the stance "If we don't give a shit now, we'll have less problems in the future because would-be boycotters know it won't change anything". That's the long-run result.
Short-term, they simply need to tire them out. It's the same reason "Starvation in X" is front page news today and a small notice in three months, even though the situation is much the same. The public simply doesn't have the attention span needed to chage their ways.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Essentially, it seems that the RIAA wants to force universities to tax all the students in order to pay for the music listening of those who might otherwise download music illegally off the Internet.
It's a great deal for the RIAA. They don't have to make quality products, they get paid for every student regardless of the students use of the service. The only choice the students have is to go to another school.
I would have no objection to an opt-in setup. The FSF has already proposed a very reasonable setup that would allow ISPs to sell unlimited music exchange to customers for a reasonable fee that would go to the recording companies.
Interestingly enough, the RIAA has refused to consider such a reasonable solution and has recently discussed raising prices. This seems odd behavior for a group trying to gain customer acceptance of a flegling business model.
It seems to me that by raising the prices for downloading music, the RIAA is going to give new incentive to pirate their music. Doubling their prices, though, allows them to whine to Congress that now they are losing twice as much money as before. Oh no! In response, our congressional representatives will be pushed to create more poorly crafted legistlation that makes more citizens into criminals and assures the RIAA continuous revenue regardless of the quality of music they produce.
If you object to this kind of treatment, boycott the RIAA the week of July 4th. Don't buy any music. Don't listen to the radio. Show the RIAA that it's bullying behavior has it's consequences.
-All that is gold does not glitter - Tolkien
www.ra
of the ones who will actually be PAYING for the service, then they should just tell Napster to go piss up a rope.
OU: We are going to find out what our students think of this. After all, they're the ones affected.
N: No! You can't do that! It's a secret!
OU: We're not sure we like that...
N: Tough luck. We don't want those numbers out there.
OU: Well then, we regret to inform you that signing up with your service is not in our best interests. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...
Yeah I know ... I should fight the good fight, but sorry, I just can't be arsed.
America in a nutshell, ladies and gentlemen...
and any greater than 600 UID slashdotter doesn't realize that a less than symbol won't show up in a comment
Hmmm... a software company that started out as a platform to promote theivery is possibly doing something underhanded? Shocking...
Why would napster fees be any different? In light of the scrutiny of the increasing tuition/fees at universities as of late, i would think the people would demand transparency (looks like it's going to be a 14% hike this year at the U of MN, 52% over the past 3 years!)
-tid242
With a few exceptions, secrecy is deeply incompatible with democracy and with science. --Carl Sagan
It is true that there have not yet been lawsuits against OU students over copyright infingement by the RIAA.
I personally am not sure how well this new Napster thing will even catch on at OU. A student has set up an Direct Connect hub on campus, that checks ip addresses and only allows OU students. When I download from users on this hub, I will usually get upwards of 1000k/s in my download speed and there is usualy not any lack of variety in the music.
I could see how the new Napster would catch on at other schools, where the main mode of piracy is Kazaa, Imesh, or Bittorrent. But I have a feeling it just will not do to well at OU.
I wasn't sure who (if anybody) it was appropriate to reply to.
My fiancee is a dead-head. They don't care who downloads or trades the live recordings, period. Trading/exchanging them is fine as long as it isn't 'for profit'.
I have a 'small collection' (~7gb) of almost 57 hours of primarily 256Kbb rips of fairly high-quality direct tape captures made over the past (literally) close to 30 years.
I have only learned to love the dead and their music (with or without Jerry) because of her, but it is their attitude and spirit that I love sooooo much more.
Thank you, Daeley, I love you so much more then words could ever describe.
I'm curious...has anyone ever seen any money spent that could NOT have been used elsewhere?
I'll probably be flamed for this, but...
Is it possible that this isn't such a bad deal? Some people are arguing that you pay so much money and still have to buy the cd's in the end, but that's no different than, say, xm radio. As a subscriber to XM radio (which I love) I feel like $3 a month for access to unlimited songs isn't so bad, even if you end up with nothing.
Just my $.02
I'll bet that the fees Napster have requested from those first universities are low. Very low. $1 would do it.
Why would Napster do such a thing? It puts them on the map, and it gives them lots of participants on fast connections who can help seed the network and make it more desirable.
Obviously Napster wouldn't want that number publicized; they'll want to make money from some of the schools.
I like what this university is doing, Offering the students a chance to express their view on the subject, and not be forced to pay lots of money into something they dont want, dont want to use, and will not use, or can not use anyway.
Yay for Freedom of choice!
// instant - "I for one welcome our new Decaff Coffee-Flavoured-Coffee Overlords"
Nothing like giving the /. crowd links to click
http://www.cns.ohiou.edu/napster/
Here are the details napster apparently doesn't want people seeing. Yeah, there's some top secret stuff in here alright.
University Tells Napster To Fuck Off.
Yeah I know ... I should fight the good fight, but sorry, I just can't be arsed.
America in a nutshell, ladies and gentlemen...
What American would ever use the word "arsed"? Oh, right, Bush sucking up to Blair. "And British culture is so bloody wonderful!"
I'm not sure how many of you are from Ohio, but OU is known as a little party school down in Athens, OH (the poorest and filthiest county in Ohio) that consists mainly of hippies/potheads, perpetual rude drunks, and overall obnoxious girls. Fun for a visit, but definitely not the place I'd want to go for 5 years.
Berto
May 1999 - Shawn Fanning released the original Napster P2P software
December 7, 1999 - RIAA filed suit against Napster
Bunch of law suit stuff happens that costs Napster lots of money and Napster gets shut down.
October 31, 2000 - Napster announces an agreement with Bertelsmann AG for a subscription-based distribution scheme.
More legal crap happens, essentially all good for RIAA.
March 5, 2001 - Napster begins to block access to copyrighted songs on its system. On the same day the Recording Academy (the Grammy award folks) files suit against Napster.
More stuff happens, RIAA gives Napster a list of songs to block. Judge says that Napster is "out of control"
July 2, 2001 - Judge orders Napster offline
May 2002 - Napster has fired almost everybody and is on verge of bankrupcy. Bertelsmann AG starts buying Napster
June 3, 2002: Napster files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in preparation for takeover by Bertelsmann AG.
September 2002: Judge blocks the sale of Napster to Bertelsmann AG. Plans are started for a Chapter 7 bankruptcy liquidation of Napster.
November 25th, 2002 - Roxio acquired the bankrupt Napster.
July 2003 - Roxio announced that it planned the launch of Napster 2 in time for Christmas.
You're wrong, because the Napster2 deal is actually opt-in, or so it was offered to our school (not the one mentioned in the article). No one has to join if they don't want to.
And, yes, I have personal knowledge of this because I am directly involved in the negotiations. In fact, we're talking to them today, I believe, and this little gagging issue will be brought up.
I did not sign ANY NDAs for their documents, so they can get bent if I want to shout their terms to the entire world.
Sorry to post as AC, but I'd prefer everyone NOT know who I am.
I tried to find a student radio station at Ohio University, but all I found was an NPR rebroadcaster. If I'm in error about this, please let me know.
I really hope that the University of Maryland system doesn't consider this. We've got our radio station at UMBC (WMBC), and the (admittedly more significant) one at College Park. Our draw is that you can be exposed to all sorts of new music that's more interesting and less expensive than what you hear on commercial radio, and its made by artists who actually want you to hear their music, so they often give away at least a few tracks on MP3.
As you might imagine, the percentage of students that listen to our stations is a small minority. It's easier for people to listen to big commercial artists (for certain definitions of "easier"). But we hope that people might check us out if they're looking for something beyond their CD collection, they're too poor to buy more music, and/or they're disgusted with the RIAA. If it's easy to get commercial music illegally, this kills a lot of incentive to listen for the people who wouldn't normally seek this kind of music. University-wide Napster is basically the same story; I believe it would definitely make it harder for us to reach people who might otherwise be interested.
I felt much the same about the Microsoft deal our university made (cheap Windows and Office for a yearly fee), because I was a member of the LUG. If people can get Microsoft's software for $10, many of them are not going to bother trying Linux, and then -- just like with Napster -- they get hit with the full bill once they leave. And they haven't bothered to dig deeper into (music|software) while they were in an environment to facilitate that.
The problem is that many students will think that this is a good idea because it lets them not change their current habits and save money. But college is supposed to be about change, discovery, learning, pushing the boundaries. That's why I view deals like this as terrible.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
Don't worry, buddy, not everyone knows who you are. Be assured, though, that we'll be having a little 'chat' about this transgression on Slashdot.org today during the negotiations.
Sorry to post as AC, but I'd prefer not everyone know that I surf Slashdot when I should be preparing for negotiations later today.
I always resented being taxed with an "activity fee", since in four years they (whoever it is that gets to spend our money on "activities") never managed to dream up an activity I would pay even one penny for if I had the choice. My favorite composers run from semiretired to dead-for-centuries, and I have a feeling there'd be precious few tracks from any of them included in this service.
Too bad Napster doesn't want its ratepayers to know what rate they're paying.
The answer is no. Students won't pay $3 when they can just fire up Kazaa or eMule for free. Piracy is that much of an epidemic. People simply want things for free, and it has nothing to do with culture movements, anti-RIAA movements, or any other justifications pirates give.
Uh, if the RIAA is suing you, it's because you are illegally infringing their copyright, and they have full right to sue you. How are you one of their customers if you're not paying for their content?
The RIAA doesn't sue customers, it sues pirates who are avoiding paying for their copyrighted materials, violating copyright holder rights. If you're a customer, you've legally paid for the material in some way and aren't on Kazaa ripping artists off.
It's really, really simple. Slashdotters try to justify piracy as some sort of movement, but when things like the RIAA suits happen they get up in arms. It just goes to show you the real concern is just getting things for free. As you pointed out, Slashdotters were saying the RIAA should do that very thing, sue individual downloaders, then they do and suddenly that's evil too--protecting your own copyrights.
I'll remember that the next time a GPL violation article gets posted, and some company is accused of being evil for daring violate the copyright of the GPL, when thousands of Slashdotters violate the copyrights of people they've never met every day.
My college, Middlebury College in VT recently sent out an email with the same type of survey. I can't get back to it because I already filled it out, but here's what I remember as being particularly interesting:
/. will see "Napster" and think "Oo, free music!" without checking out the service. So next year I plan on paying an extra who-knows-how-much in order to provide music to my windows-using peers.
1) The survey didn't give a price - it listed a series of prices, ranging from about $3 to $18 per month, and asked roughly how much the student would be willing to pay. It struck me more as an attempt by Napster to figure out an acceptable entry price than an attempt to cover anything up, but I have no idea what their motives could be.
2) The funding for this would be tacked onto our school's activity fee, and we were assured in the FAQ (which seemed to be compiled by Napster and the College) that the school would only be charged for students with Windows-based computers. How exactly they determine whether a student has a windows-based computer (my Dell still has Windows, but I used Mandrake 90% of the time), I have no idea. Unfortunately, although the total cost goes down, the cost is still spread across all of the users.
3) As mentioned before, the only part of the service that this fee would allow someone to access is the temporary subscription-based service. While students are home for summer, they would be allowed to listen to music downloaded at college but not download new music, IIRC. Essentially, this looks to me like a streaming service that eats up your hard drive, all kinds of DRM'd up music killing hard drive space and in need of some proprietary player to access.
I was disappointed by the way that the College and Napster sprung this on us - right at the end of school, with students so busy with finals that any kind of discussion of the issue was essentially impossible. On Napster's part, at least, that may or may not be accidental - I'm sure that many classmates who don't read
I really don't see the point in this arrangement, other than the obvious "we're paying Napster so that the RIAA doesn't go after us." If a student wants the service, let the student subscribe to the service, but don't partner in with a company whose business model is essentially to put proprietary software on everyone's PC and attempt to coerce them to buy crappy music. Just my $.02.
Nobody's buying "protection." They're buying a download service so that the students don't go illegally pirating artists' materials and rip them off, and can instead download music legally where people get compensated for their works (gasp, the horror!).
Your obvious implication is that the RIAA is like the Mafia. What propaganda.
STFU faggot.
First of all, there is no monolithic group known as "Slashdotters". If you think that just because someone got modded up +5 Insightful that it means that person speaks for everyone here on Slashdot then you're woefully mistaken. By your logic, the moronic stupidity that you post that gets similarly modded up +5 means that you speak for a the majority--which you most certainly don't.
Second, nobody but a few people who got modded up were saying that the RIAA should be going after individuals (for those of you following along, this is known as the Straw Man fallacy). Also, piracy (i.e., theft) is not the same thing as copyright infringement, no matter how much you wish it were.
Third, the GPL is not your personal trump card to discredit anyone who disagrees with copyright law. I know this is hard for you to grasp, but if copyright law didn't exist, then there would be no need for the GPL!
Fourth, I have been trolled. Quite frankly, I don't understand how your tired and continually discredited points of view get modded up when they're so riddled with logical holes that you could drive a semi-tractor trailer through them.
bonch: The Few. The Proud. The Copyright Trolls!
universities are no longer run like places of education, but more like businesses.
Don't you mean daycare centers?
This whole scenario is a perfect demonstration of the laziness and lack of self-discipline that has crept into the ethos of the average American. It's not the number involved, it's the mentality that relies so heavily on immediate gratification. It's also the fact that music has acquired such an addictive quality- like a bad crack habit. If you drop the habit, you regain control.
Napster became populer because people where getting something for free that they used to pay money for
and now they want to charge money for that service
not sure if anyone sees the flaw behind that
napster died, we mourned and all downloaded morpheus
now there are more P2P and Torrent Programs then i can shake a stick at and some people decide that this is a viable market to enter into
granted, in the US they are cracking down on people with large mp3 archives but still, at 0.99 cents a track my hard drive is worth over $5k, not including all the movies and tv shows i also have.
well that's my $0.02. probably should have saved it for the new britney spears song
The Neo-Bohemian Techno-Socialist
What American would ever use the word "arsed"?
A wonderful, but sadly neglected word :)
Oh, right, Bush sucking up to Blair.
Isn't it the other way round, since Blair has much more to gain. The UK is not exactly a superpower. Most people that I know over here in the UK feel we are turning into a third-world country. AFAICT it's already happened. However, it would appear that there are those who feel this is happening in the US as well, so maybe it's a global thing.
"And British culture is so bloody wonderful!"
I don't know who you're quoting, or paraphrasing (Bush I guess), but that isn't my view.
First and foremost, I consider myself a "Netizen". Then I'm Scottish. I'm not British, nor European - despite what is says on my passport.
Business has a significant role in a college, as those are the prospective employers for graduates. Without having some business in a school, you end up teaching a lot of kids completely useless skills
my state's Constitution states that (state college/uni) education must be affordable. in the past 2.5 years since we got stuck with a new president, tuition has consistently gone up. 5 new buildings have been built or are currently under construction, only one of which is used (partially) for teaching. the rest are completely dedicated to research.
Don't know who you think is doing the research, but it's mainly students. Learning how to do research is still learning. Besides, how many classrooms does a university need? You can't run a college like high school, people learn by doing.
the kicker is that this research is almost always funded by gov't grants (read: my and yours $$). yet, if i want to use technology developed on those grants, i have to pay for a license to use it ... i pay twice.
The fact that you get the technology at all is the benefit. Not to mention which, the government has many programs that don't directly benefit all citizens. I don't get welfare, for example.
Also, students at schools should be damned glad for those grants, as they pay to run the school through the significant "overhead" fees the school takes out of each grant.
if a researcher here finds a cure for cancer, the uni's corporate arm will take ownership, and license it. that's damn sad. the days of places of higher education putting out freely available innovations are long gone thanks to the almighty ustpo
I'm not sure what you think was the situation 50 years ago, but what happened then was profs would develop something, start a company, patent it themselves, and screw everyone including the university. If the school develops something that will make someone some money, why shouldn't they use that money to subsidize operations that benefit all students?
You're insane. $3 a month for downloads? That's so cheap you'd be crazy not to pay.
If I could pay $10-$15 a month right now for unlimited (or some high limit, like 100+ per month) downloads of legal MP3s - pure, no DRM - I'd sign up in a heartbeat. And that's just for 128kbit cheapies. I'd pay more for higher quality.
The students will pay for this. It's too cheap to say no.
-Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
Such records shall be promptly prepared and made available for inspection to any persons at all reasonable times during regular business hours. Upon request, a person responsible for public records shall make copies available at cost, within a reasonable period of time.
OSU lost in court the last time they tried to fight this.
Sorry, my marketroid jargon just isn't up to scratch. Where I said 'customers' I should have said 'customer base' or something like that. By using lawsuits against anyone who might buy your product, you're automatically generating bad press and pissing off those people who may have wanted to buy your product. You make a valid objection, which the replies below have already mentioned.
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
-- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
All I can say is WRONG.
First, in many situations - including in the sciences - even undergraduate students are paid to research. Second, what pay is "low" for a 20-year-old with no experience? This is someone who couldn't make above $10/hour in most circumstances. What other opportunities does this person have to learn critical skills? Also, in most circumstances, this "work" done by undergrads is, for the most part, not that useful. I speak from experience here, and 9 times out of 10, they will (naturally) require a great deal of supervision, and much of their work will have to be redone. All in all, research by undergrads is more like learning than work, most times.
As for research by grads, we're paid. Not incredibly paid, but we are paid.
I remeber reading an article recently where the US was starting to fall behind in education, I wonder if it has anything to do with treating students like cheap lab workers.
Nope, the US is falling behind in high-school education, not college.
When any institution shifts it focus from its primary function, the primary function suffers as resources are lost.
You're only focusing on undergrads - for graduate students, research IS your job. If my school shifted its focus from research, my education will suffer. You also have to understand, at the best schools, 90+% of the students will ultimately find jobs doing some form of research. Not introducing research early to these students would be a crime.
Also, resources aren't "lost." You have to realize, not only do grants pay for research, they pay, in large part, to run the school. Where I am, a very large fraction of every grant dollar spent is taken off the top to run the general overhead of the school. Basically, you cut off grants, the school has no money. Research also increases the profile of the school, which brings in donations.
Doing monkey work in a lab is not the best form of education.
I completely agree, which is why those sorts of situations are generally avoided. At my school, there is a process by which undergrads can request a change in advisor if he/she feels they aren't doing real work. But research is the core function of grad students, and it is a critical part of the education of undergrads.
Seriously, would you run a college like our failing high schools? The American collegiate system is the only decent thing we have left.
We all know Napster is owned by the RIAA. We all know the RIAA does not look out for the artists or us. I refuse to pay the RIAA. I don't have a problem paying $3 a month, I already pay more than that right now a week. The problem is where the money goes. I'd rather pay a legit service where the money goes directly to artists before paying the RIAA. Thats just how it is. Yes we will pay, we just won't pay for a service which is not legit.
People don't exist to serve systems, systems exist to serve people.
eMusic does around what you want. MP3, no DRM, VBR, around 1MB/minute. $10/month for 40 tracks. $20 will get you 90 tracks.
I just signed up after reading a post about 'em the other day. I'm happy with the service, even though in order to download full albums you have to download their file manager. I don't really blame them - beats having to host the content twice (once in mp3, once in "zip" or similar).