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PC Magazine Reviews Firefox, Opera

prostoalex writes "PC Magazine reviews Mozilla Firefox 0.9.1 and Opera 7.51, noting: 'Security concerns aren't the only reason to seek an alternative [to Internet Explorer]. IE's slow rendering engine and dearth of privacy features may plant the thought in some iconoclastic minds that it may not be the best browser for everyone.' 4 stars for Firefox and 3.5 for Opera, so looks like a Firefox win, although the editors do point out FF's troubles with DHTML as well as Opera issues with JavaScript."

146 of 700 comments (clear)

  1. Alright Mozilla by bigberk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Mozilla rises from the dead (or at least a deep sleep) and goes mainstream rather quickly. Impressive :)

    1. Re:Alright Mozilla by no+reason+to+be+here · · Score: 3, Informative

      isn't FUD usually just speculation and half-truths.

      All the recent stories concerning IE's horrible security have been demonstrably true.

    2. Re:Alright Mozilla by Trigun · · Score: 5, Funny

      But all the FUD was created by IE anyways.

      I fear that I will have my personal information stolen.
      I am uncertain that the IE Developers are competent programmers.
      I doubt that I will switch back to IE in the near future.

    3. Re:Alright Mozilla by DAldredge · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It ain't FUD if its true.

    4. Re:Alright Mozilla by TastyWords · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If they're going to chop away a few stars for those things, then they're going to have to knock IE to ** because of security and constant patches. That is, until the Microsoft people send Guido to proofread the newsprint before it's sent and strongarms them into changing it.
      Seriously, I'd be interested to see how they'd rate IE is against them, head-to-head-to-head...

    5. Re:Alright Mozilla by Schwartzboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, I've never read FUD in a context other than the speculation and half-truths that you mention, but taken literally, I've always been told that it means "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt". There may in fact be Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt surrounding Internet Explorer and a great many other Microsoft-related things, but they're based on a great deal more evidence than we usually think of when we say FUD. Maybe "legit-i-FUD" would be better? "Factual FUD"?

      --
      "Linux doesn't exist. Everyone knows Linux is an unlicensed version of Unix"- Kieren O'Shaughnessy
    6. Re:Alright Mozilla by Ender+Ryan · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You make no sense at all. If it's true that it's horribly insecure, then the fact that other organizations are recommending using something other than IE is not FUD, it is a recommendation based on facts. That the facts are perhaps scaring people into switching only means that people want more security than MS is currently providing.

      --
      Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
    7. Re:Alright Mozilla by JVert · · Score: 4, Funny

      Isn't that the best way? consider a spider crawling up your leg, once you feel the spider crawling and ready to bite you, a knee jerk reaction occurs. Really you have to get used it it, cause every new version of (brand x) pants have the same damn spider embedded in them.

    8. Re:Alright Mozilla by malfunct · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I am uncertain that IE Developers are competent programmers.

      I'll bite, I can guarantee that some number of Mozilla developers are not competent programmers given the number of possible contributors to the project.

      That said, I think MS realizes it has a problem now and is dealing with it, unfortunately it will take a year or two for it to really be dealt with. Mozilla knew (I hope and assume here) there was a problem right from the start and took steps to mitigate a lot of the problems that IE is plagued with (and netscape would probably have been plauged with before the complete rewrite of code). Its a new style vs old style mentality. Many applications (OSS as well as proprietary commercial) from the early to mid 90's are plauged with the type of problems that IE has. The problem is that MS rested on its laurels instead of continuing to push IE forward and improve it. They also were under the highly misguided impression that people didn't really care about security and weren't willing to pay for it. Hopefully the truth has come home to roost and we will see better products out of redmond.

      --

      "You can now flame me, I am full of love,"

    9. Re:Alright Mozilla by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. That pretty much sums up my parents experience of the Internet while using IE.

      Anything that would keep them from calling me frantically wondering why their web browser now goes to some variation of cool web search sounds great.

      Microsoft has dug IE this shithole by making the browser too much a part of the operating system, trying to get as much lock in as possible. Now they get to reap the fruits of their labors and lay face down in it.

      --
      Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
    10. Re:Alright Mozilla by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Here's a funny snippet of their Firefox review:

      Con: Will not load ActiveX and VBScript

      This should be under Pros, ActiveX is good for one purpose -- Windows Update. And I've never even heard of an real web site that used VBScript. Shall we detract points for not supporting every asinine scripting language ever invented?

    11. Re:Alright Mozilla by spacemky · · Score: 3, Funny

      isn't FUD usually just speculation and half-truths.

      I don't know. Ask Michael Moore.

      --
      640YB ought to be enough for anybody.
    12. Re:Alright Mozilla by Aaden42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Where's the Uncertainty and Doubt?

      IE is insecure. It has multiple unpatched known security issues. It's probably got lots of UNKNOWN issues too (so there's some U & D for you), but there are more than enough known problems to instill plenty of Fear.

    13. Re:Alright Mozilla by gmack · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They are half right.. I do care about security but I am NOT willing to pay for it.

      It had better come shipped secure and in the case it's not I had better get a free fix for it.

      Software vendors who fail to comply with those requirements are relegated to as few tasks as possible at my customer sites.

    14. Re:Alright Mozilla by gmack · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In all fairness there is one other site that makes good use of ActiveX: housecall.antivirus.com.

      It's great when you need to quickly scan a customer machine without installing anything or running updates on whatever happens to be there already.

      I don't think 2 useful sites justify that travasty of a feature though.

    15. Re:Alright Mozilla by Smidge204 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've always equated FUD with the use of disinformation to gain a competative advantage by invoking fear, uncertainty and doubt in the public about your competitor's product. In this case:

      1) The information ("IE is insecure" etc) is verifyably true and reported by many different people and organizations.

      2) The people behind Mozilla and Opera are not the one generating the reports about their competitor's (Microsoft's) products.

      3) The people involved with 1 and 2 (The ones finding and reporting the security issues, and the ones championing Moz/Opera) have no (apparent) vested interest in seeing IE lose it's market share.

      So I'm not convinced this article coutns as FUD in that respect.
      =Smidge=

    16. Re:Alright Mozilla by MadHobbit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't use IE, but I've helped several friends and relatives that do, and have been bitten by these bugs. The relatively benign ones added porn sites to the bookmarks, but others have installed keystroke loggers, back doors, and 900-number dialers, and hijacked the start page and search functionality.

      If your question is "Are these bugs actually important, or just hype?" the answer is that they're real problems that really affect real, everyday users.

      I suspect that anyone that actually -works- in PC repair or tech support can back me up on this.

    17. Re:Alright Mozilla by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 2, Funny
      Wow, that's pretty horrible. And their Javascript is ugly too. Invalid declarations, scripts downloaded from third-party sites, testing for either document.all or document.layers.. their web developer needs to be fired. Here's the offending VBScript:

      <Script Language="VBScript">
      location.assign "../../WebFW/LTN-527T/52T5S0B.zip"
      </Script>

      Gee, there's just no other way they could have done that, now is there?

      /sarcasm
    18. Re:Alright Mozilla by PommeFritz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ActiveX is good for one purpose -- Windows Update.

      I beg to differ. I see no reason why Windows Update should be done from within a web browser, with some javascript and ActiveX stuff thrown in the mix. Why, why is there not a standalone program to fetch the windows updates?
      If the automatic update installer service can do this for you, (probably without using the windowsupdate web site at all), why do we still have to have IE around for the manual Windows Update? I want to get rid of it! (IE that is)

    19. Re:Alright Mozilla by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, I agree. There should be a clearly defined mechanism whose purpose is only to fetch, install, and manage updates. A web browser shouldn't be integrated so deeply into the OS, simply due to the havoc that can be caused by security issues. That said, of all the ActiveX applets on the web, there's only one I'd install, and that's for Windows Update. In fact, that's the only purpose I'd recommend for IE. (that, and downloading a better browser)

    20. Re:Alright Mozilla by malfunct · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The other part of the security picture that I failed to mention is security vs ease of use. A very secure computer does very little and the general person in the past (heck even now) had little in the way of knowledge of how to work on a secure machine and less of why the security is important. Futhermore numerous poorly written apps failed to operate correctly without more privledge than necessary which gave MS the incorrect incentive to run everything with high privledge and open up all the doors. There will certainly be a large cost to MS in retraining XP users to handle the SP2 restrictions. Another big training period is going to come teaching people (after they teach 3rd party developers) how to handle living as non-admin. Again I think all of this stuff is in the works but it will take time. They really do act like they have to get security right this time. If past actions are anything to go by, once MS gets its mind set on something, it achieves it at all costs.

      --

      "You can now flame me, I am full of love,"

    21. Re:Alright Mozilla by Ari_Haviv · · Score: 2, Funny

      a bit ironic to rely on acvtivex to try to secure your pc?

      --
      Join Team Mozilla #38050 Folding@home
  2. Does this mean... by Atmchicago · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...that I should stop running Internet Explorer using wine, and try Firefox?

    --

    You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it dissolve.

    1. Re:Does this mean... by DrEldarion · · Score: 4, Funny

      I... I think you just made my brain explode.

    2. Re:Does this mean... by happyfrogcow · · Score: 5, Funny

      depends.

      Are you running Wine on Longhorn with SFU? If so, no. Otherwise, yes.

    3. Re:Does this mean... by commodoresloat · · Score: 3, Funny

      Longhorn comes with Shut the Fuck Up?

    4. Re:Does this mean... by Ruediger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "...it seemed to work as well as in windows." I am not sure if this is good or bad

      --
      "...personality goes a long way."
    5. Re:Does this mean... by mr.capaneus · · Score: 4, Funny

      Longhorn comes with Shut the Fuck Up?
      Yes. It comes with a nice steaming cup of it.

    6. Re:Does this mean... by k4_pacific · · Score: 4, Funny
      That's nothing, check this out:

      http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=824973

      --
      Unknown host pong.
  3. IE User by enforcer999 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Out of habit and ignorance, I have used IE for years. I think it is time to make the change to Firefox. Thanks for the article.

    1. Re:IE User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As if the 5 /. headlines a day of pure Firefox lovin' couldn't change your mind.

    2. Re:IE User by Neil+Blender · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Out of habit and ignorance, I have used IE for years

      You have just spoke for a billion people.

    3. Re:IE User by Stingr · · Score: 2, Informative

      I switched to Firefox a little less than a year ago and let me tell you the difference then was incredible. After I got used to the new UI everything was smooth sailing. The only complaint I had about it back then (.7 at the time IIRC) was that, compared to IE it was a little sluggish when loading pages. However this was fixed in .8 and keeps getting better and better with each new version. The only complaint I have now is that some webpages will only work properly in IE. (I know it's not Firefox's fault but it's still annoying.) However there is an extension you can download that will add an "Open link in IE" option to the context menu which makes this problem a lot easier to cope with. All in all I say go for it!

      --
      Chaos reigns within.
      Reflect, repent, and reboot.
      Order shall return.
    4. Re:IE User by WormholeFiend · · Score: 2, Funny

      I was in the same situation as you... so I went to mozilla.org, and downloaded the full package and installed it.

      A week later I realize that Mozilla and Firefox are different... I go "D'OH!" but I'm too lazy to download, uninstall mozilla, and install firefox, import my links, etc.

      So I guess I'll be using Mozilla until years after people point out I should upgrade to whatever...

    5. Re:IE User by cuzality · · Score: 2, Informative
      there is an extension you can download that will add an "Open link in IE" option to the context menu
      IE View
      by Paul Roub
      http://texturizer.net/firefox/extensions/#ieview
      Version: 0.8
      File Size: 22 KB
      Updated: 2004-06-15

      Adds "View page in Internet Explorer" links to the content and link context menu. Handy for previewing pages in IE, loading up IE-only pages when you run across them in Mozilla, etc.

  4. Proof is in the Pudding by darth_MALL · · Score: 5, Funny

    "IE's slow rendering engine "
    Sad but true. The review page has been loading for almost a minute now :(

    1. Re:Proof is in the Pudding by Neophytus · · Score: 4, Informative

      If there's one thing that I couldn't fault IE on is the fact that it actually displays pages pretty fast.

    2. Re:Proof is in the Pudding by displaced80 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Umm... find out a little more about what the browsers are doing.

      There's always a trade-off between rendering speed and quality. Do you start to lay-out the page before all content has been fetched, thus incurring unsighltly redraws and reflows as new content invalidates the current best-guess display? Or do you hold off on painting somewhat to allow more content to arrive, and thus a better initial layout?

      Gecko-based browsers give you full control over this, so you can tune it to your network performance. By default, it always waits 250msec (or is it less now?) before displaying anything. Of course, it ain't twiddling its thumbs during this -- it's building the page, but not showing it to avoid ugly reflows. Jump into the prefs (type about:config and find initialpaintdelay) and set it to 0 to make it render immediately.

      It's psychological. That inital pause where nothing appears to be going on may make you think Gecko's slower than IE. But the time from initiating the load to a mostly-complete layout may well actually be smaller than IE.

      If you really want to learn about this stuff from a guy who's as close to being a guru as you're gonna get on this subject, check out this post on Dave Hyatt's (Moziila/Apple developer) weblog.

      --
      What's the frequency, Kenneth?
    3. Re:Proof is in the Pudding by horza · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If there's one thing that I couldn't fault IE on is the fact that it actually displays pages pretty fast.

      For me it's far slower than Firefox. And every modern browser has gone backwards in my opinion from the original browsers which had progressive table rendering. I'm sick of waiting for ages for a page to render just because the designer put the whole page in one large table. It's not too difficult, even 10 years ago I've seen complex deeply nested tables rendering progressively in real-time... and this is on 10 year old hardware.

      Phillip.

  5. Mozilla, Opera and Firefox... by shackma2 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Mozilla, Opera and Firefox, from my unscientific perspective, seem to load web pages quicker than IE, but what really bothers me is how slow the mozilla opera and firefox load times are. I can either get to the web quickly with IE, or wait a while with firefox for a minute page load time diffrence.

    1. Re:Mozilla, Opera and Firefox... by elbazo · · Score: 4, Informative

      That is because IE is part of the OS unlike Opera and Firefox. If you use WinXP or 2003 open the process manager and set the firefox/opera process to realtime, might do the trick.

      Baz

    2. Re:Mozilla, Opera and Firefox... by mopslik · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here.

      Mozilla, Opera and Firefox ... seem to load web pages quicker than IE.
      I can either get to the web quickly with IE, or wait a while with firefox for a minute page load time diffrence.

      Pages load faster in M/O/Ff, but they're a minute slower in M/O/Ff? I think what you're getting at is this...

      but what really bothers me is how slow the mozilla opera and firefox load times are

      If you're talking about clicking on the IE icon vs. clicking the M/O/Ff icon, and having the application pop up ready to roll, then keep in mind that IE loads on boot. That way, it gives you the impression of loading faster.

    3. Re:Mozilla, Opera and Firefox... by D4Vr4nt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The brutal part about IE being part of the OS is that people seem to be retarded about opening/closing their web browser.

      I've heard that Moz loads too slow all the time... Waaaaa.. It's not as fast as IE.

      Why don't people just realize that once you open your web browser you should just leave it open?! Why are you even on your computer? :P

      Anyways.. back to my point. People will keep using IE simply because it's there, and the convience of being one of the fastest loading applications in Windows (oh wait.. I forgot about Calc.exe).

      Oh.. And most people can't wrap their heads around tabbed browsing (or see the point of it). But tell them it blocks popups then they get excited.

      --
      R4NT.com - A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
    4. Re:Mozilla, Opera and Firefox... by Phiu-x · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "If you use WinXP or 2003 open the process manager and set the firefox/opera process to realtime, might do the trick."

      Nice, if you accept the fact that the process manageer does not remember these settings once you close the instance of the program or when you reboot. Useless IMO.

      And BTW, about slower loading time for FireFox:

      Just keep it open, that is why they put tabbed based browsing in so you don't have to close your browser each time.

      I don't know about other people, but at work, I rarely close my browser once I fired it up for the first time in the morning. Is the 1/100's seconds more that it takes to open vs IE is really that noticable? I prefer a more secure browser anyways.

      --
      This is a stolen sig.
    5. Re:Mozilla, Opera and Firefox... by spectecjr · · Score: 5, Informative

      That is because IE is part of the OS unlike Opera and Firefox. If you use WinXP or 2003 open the process manager and set the firefox/opera process to realtime, might do the trick.

      1. IE is a set of components that provide HTML rendering support for the OS. It is not loaded with Windows.

      2. Setting Firefox/Opera to realtime will cause other system functions to slow to a crawl and/or possibly crash.

      3. Mozilla and Firefox can be loaded exceptionally fast on Windows. It's very simple. DO NOT install QuickLaunch, but allow the Mozilla build process to correctly bind and rebase its DLLs. When it's done, you'll have a version of Mozilla which loads AS FAST AS Internet Explorer.

      If the dll binding procedure did not make it into the Mozilla installer, that explains why people are still seeing it launch slowly.

      This crap about "IE runs faster because it's part of the OS" is a myth propounded by people who really just don't know anything about how Windows loads processes and DLLs. Any time you have an app that loads slower than its competitors, consider this:

      1) Is it loading ALL of its DLLs into memory at startup? Or does it dynamically load them as needed? (The latter is faster).

      2) Is it loading a lot of potentially unnecessary COM components at startup instead of as needed? (As needed is faster).

      3) Are its DLLs rebased correctly so that they don't need to be fixedup by the Application Launcher when they load? Does it have a clean memory map? (Most non-Microsoft apps do NOT take this step - which is fully documented in MSDN - which means that their load times will be 10 to 20 times longer than apps which DO rebase their DLLs).

      4) Are its DLLs bound at install-time? Binding DLLs reduces the time necessary to load and patch the import/export table of processes and DLLs, by pre-patching the import/export table and attaching a signature to it to catch if the external DLLs change. (Most non-Microsoft apps Do NOT take this step - which again is fully documented in MSDN - which means that their load times will be another 4 to 7 times longer than apps which DO bind their DLLs).

      Sloppy development practices lead to sloppy performance.

      --
      Coming soon - pyrogyra
    6. Re:Mozilla, Opera and Firefox... by Jaguar777 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here.

      Mozilla, Opera and Firefox ... seem to load web pages quicker than IE.
      I can either get to the web quickly with IE, or wait a while with firefox for a minute page load time diffrence.

      Pages load faster in M/O/Ff, but they're a minute slower in M/O/Ff? I think what you're getting at is this...


      I believe he meant minute[minoot](as in small amout of time). Not minute(as in 60 seconds).

      Mozilla, Opera and Firefox ... seem to load web pages quicker than IE.
      I can either get to the web quickly with IE, or wait a while with firefox for a tiny page load time diffrence.

      --
      Maybe you should educate the morons of tomorrow so they'll stop believing the leaders of tomorrow. - Dogbert
    7. Re:Mozilla, Opera and Firefox... by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Twice now, I've made the mistake of letting IE users check out a web site on my computer. Both times, I had Mozilla running with about 6 tabs loaded, so I opened another tab for them to use.

      They load up their web site, read it for about 5 minutes then close the browser.. then wonder why I'm upset that they closed the application. I was still using that damnitt!!

    8. Re:Mozilla, Opera and Firefox... by mike2R · · Score: 2, Informative

      I can't remember if this is a standard option or an extension, but you can get Firefox to prompt you before closing a window with multiple tabs

      Thinking about it, I'm pretty sure its an option in the Tabbrowser Preferences extension.

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    9. Re:Mozilla, Opera and Firefox... by timmyd · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Why don't people just realize that once you open your web browser you should just leave it open?! Why are you even on your computer? :P

      I do this also, but after a few days of leaving firefox open, it tends to use a lot of ram. This isn't a problem for me though recently because I upgraded to 1280MB. Here is an example with an uptime of less than three days (I just added ram then):
      PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
      6452 timmy 15 0 161m 139m 40m S 0.0 11.1 35:17.66 firefox-bin
      6456 timmy 16 0 161m 139m 40m S 0.0 11.1 0:00.16 firefox-bin
      6457 timmy 16 0 161m 139m 40m S 0.0 11.1 0:06.82 firefox-bin
      6461 timmy 16 0 161m 139m 40m S 0.0 11.1 0:12.63 firefox-bin
      6286 root 15 0 182m 68m 119m S 10.6 5.4 45:36.18 X
      7355 timmy 15 0 86000 28m 69m S 0.0 2.2 2:58.07 stardict
      25376 timmy 15 0 31116 23m 13m S 0.0 1.8 0:14.31 emacs
      6425 timmy 15 0 78636 21m 67m S 0.0 1.7 6:28.32 gaim
    10. Re:Mozilla, Opera and Firefox... by SimplexO · · Score: 3, Informative

      IEHTML is loaded in the OS to display lots of things (folders, icons, your desktop, etc). It's part of the windows shell. The IE application just loads up the browser chrome, and uses the preloaded IEHTML to display websites.

      Firefox (the quickest-launching of the Mozilla line) has to load up gecko, the rendering engine, each time a process starts. It's browser chrome is just some JavaScript, CSS and the data to be displayed (XUL), which is displayed using gecko. If your shell were to run on top of the GRE, and Firefox were allowed to share that GRE, it would load up almost instantly -- seconds before an IE that wasn't halfway loaded into memory.

      Who would load up faster, Firefox or IE when both were forced to load everything from scratch? I don't know. It doesn't matter though. Fx loads fast enough for me now.

    11. Re:Mozilla, Opera and Firefox... by SimplexO · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I guess if you are going to make me fact-check, I might as well go all out. When I said IEHTML, I meant MSHTML -- thanks for not acronym nazi'ing me.

      "According to Microsoft, IE 4 contains nine components that interoperate for full functionality (see Figure 2). These components include five DLLs--Wininet.dll, Urlmon.dll, Mshtml.dll, Shdocvw.dll, and Comctl32.dll--along with two executable files, Explorer.exe and Iexplore.exe, and a security and a Java virtual machine component. Both IE 3 and IE 4 require these DLLs to function and without them could not offer the displays we expect and the features we expect, nor access the Internet at all. Wininet.dll offers Internet services and capabilities, including HTTP and FTP access, modem dialing, and browser caching. Urlmon.dll lets developers treat URLs as if they were programmable objects and thus build them into their applications (Microsoft's own Office 97 does this). Mshtml.dll is the component that lets you view your folders as Web pages: Choose a disk drive from My Computer, for example, and what you see is Dynamic HTML, Microsoft-style, relying on this particular DLL. Shdocvw.dll (Shell Document View) lets developers build browser capabilities into software, while Comctl32.dll (Common Controls) provides low-level support for menus, toolbars, progress bars, and many other controls used across Windows applications." (emphasis mine)
      Source.

      As you can see, at least 2 of the 5 DLLs IE needs are in use by windows. Sure, this is IE4, but it was the first in-depth analysis I found.

      Firefox's chrome is very thin layer on top of gecko, so that doesn't take long. Loading up the static GRE is what takes it the longest time. MSHTML.DLL (as well as comctl32.dll) is already in use by the windows shell before anyone double-clicks on "The Internet".

    12. Re:Mozilla, Opera and Firefox... by bheer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Comctl.dll first shipped with Windows 3.x. Comctl32 was an evolution and first shipped with the initial release of Windows 95 (when the Internet wasn't even a twinkle in MS' eye), not IE (source). Calling it IE-specific is a travesty. New versions of Commctl.dll were shipped with all Internet Explorer releases and Windows Service Packs, because Microsoft was on a jihad then to spread IE far and wide and wanted uniform UI across different OS flavors and service packs (all of which had different versions of Comctl32 -- ah, the joys of having both the browser and OS developers in the same organization).

      Btw, if Mozilla was slow for the sole reason that it did not use native widgets (==Comctl32) then perhaps they should have taken tips from the SWT guys and used freakin' native widgets. Thankfully, this is not the case. As several Win32 developers have repeatedly pointed out, Mozilla is slow mainly because it's compiled badly. Rebasing helps, and the new Moz builds are faster because of that. There are many other optimizations possible, but I believe most of them will be moot because by that time Firefox will rule the roost.

      As for MSHTML: Log into a freshly booted Windows 2000 box, with Web View for folders disabled (i.e., 'Classic view' enabled), Active Desktop disabled, and no Web-related shell accessories like Google's Deskbar. In this configuration, MSHTML is not loaded. And yet even here IE starts faster than Firefox - code optimized for one platform will trump xp code every time. Firefox has the overhead of init'ing a lot more stuff: for example it has to load XPCOM whereas IE can simply call OLE directly, which is loaded because the shell uses it.

      Of course, Firefox is still very usable because it is secure, has kickass extensions like Adblock and Scribe, and is fast enough in terms of both load time and normal use.

  6. Re:What about IE? by marnargulus · · Score: 5, Informative

    IE 6.0 got a 4 out of 5 on their reviews site. Click on "more reviews" and it lists all their reviews.

  7. User-Agent stats? by Exmet+Paff+Daxx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Has anyone been tracking Firefox/Mozilla in the User-Agent stats for a large site to see if it is truly pulling browsershare from IE? The last mention we had from the Slashdot admins was that Slashdot was 90% Internet Explorer, is this on the decline? Are these stats publicly available?

    --
    If guns kill people, then CmdrTaco's keyboard misspells words.
    1. Re:User-Agent stats? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      our site was roughly 95% internet explorer 4 months back...we've started plugging firefox fairly often(has to be repeated - people that use IE are too slow to get it the first time, no?) and it's now at 30.3% moz/firefox users.

    2. Re:User-Agent stats? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 4, Interesting

      User-Agent stats are pretty much meaningless for Firefox, unless you include pages that say "This page only supports Mozilla Firefox" in the statistic -- many people browse using firefox with the UA set to IE so they can access the sites that would otherwise lock them out.

    3. Re:User-Agent stats? by elbazo · · Score: 2, Informative

      I read an article on the register that indicates for the first time in ages Internet Explorer has gone down in usage "For the first time since Microsoft saw off rival Netscape in the 1990s Internet Explorer's virtual stranglehold on the browser marketplace has loosened. IE's share decreased slightly from 95.7 per cent to 94.73 per cent in the month up to 6 July, according to Web metrics firm WebSideStory." Baz

    4. Re:User-Agent stats? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...Slashdot was 90% Internet Explorer

      Maybe this is just flamebait, but this just confirms the thought I've always had in the back of my head that Slashdot is visited by a lot of hypocrites. I still love it though, just more as entertainment than anything else... Just like I listen to NPR to hear the crazies...

    5. Re:User-Agent stats? by lortho · · Score: 2, Informative

      There was a recent Slashdot post discussing a PC World report that IE's market share has decreased 1% in the past month.

    6. Re:User-Agent stats? by RobertB-DC · · Score: 4, Informative

      Has anyone been tracking Firefox/Mozilla in the User-Agent stats for a large site to see if it is truly pulling browsershare from IE?

      Well, when I linked to a little-viewed page on my site (during a discussion of poker, really!), the stats showed a surprising number of non-IE visitors. It seemed to be about half IE, half Opera, Mozilla, and the like. An awful lot of visitors weren't using Windows, either.

      That means either 1) Slashdot visitors use alternate browsers and OS's, or 2) Slashdot visitors like to modify their browsers' User-Agent strings. With this crowd, I'd think both are equally likely.

      --
      Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
    7. Re:User-Agent stats? by JollyGreenLlama · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I would move that a diagnosis of IE vs. Mozilla on a site like Slashdot might not be the best test of marketshare. Many people access Slashdot from the office, where they are more likely to use IE because it is part of the base software package. Many workplaces, like mine, have rules against downloading and running software other than what has been installed on the system by the sysadmin.

    8. Re:User-Agent stats? by Goyuix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I doubt this is the case - I would venture to say those that are smart enough to change the User Agent string appropriately, are also smart enough to set it back when not needed so web stats are collected properly. Particularly with the explosive growth seen over the last few days/weeks - there are a lot of people using it now that I am sure don't have a clue how to change the user agent string.

      Not to mention Sun's Java plugin complains to no end that Firefox initialized it but the User Agent is set to IE... that reminder keeps me honest as well.

    9. Re:User-Agent stats? by Grey+Ninja · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just from one website catering to web developers of course, but here's some stats. It shows general trends at the very least. There was also a poll about it on gamefaqs.com a while ago, and about 20% of people claimed to be using Mozilla, or a variant of it.

    10. Re:User-Agent stats? by SLot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      While not a large site (5000-10000 hits per month) , I'm seeing 1.6, 1.4 & 1.7 mozilla references in the top ten user-agents for the first time in two years. To go from no instances to three of the top 10 in one month made me happy.

    11. Re:User-Agent stats? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 2, Informative

      Simply Accounting. Of course, since this depends on ActiveX controls, it really *does* depend on IE -- PureTracks just says it does, because their DRM can be bypassed by any other browser.

    12. Re:User-Agent stats? by prockcore · · Score: 4, Informative

      Has anyone been tracking Firefox/Mozilla in the User-Agent stats for a large site to see if it is truly pulling browsershare from IE?

      I work for a newspaper.. we don't do technology news so the people visiting our site are strictly Joe Blow. (Same dudes who read our paper).

      Here are our top browsers for July:

      68% IE 6.0
      6.2% AOL (IE)
      4.3% Mozilla/Firefox
      4% IE 5.5
      4% Netscape 7
      2% Safari

      all the others are webtv, opera, konq, etc

      I don't know why they count Gecko based browsers separate from Netscape 7.. it's just something Omniture does.

    13. Re:User-Agent stats? by kannibal_klown · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Unfortunately, Opera can EASILY change it's ID to make it appear to be another browser (it's an option in the main menu). I currently have it set to "Opera," but I THINK by default it might even be "IE". Besides, many people just leave it at that because some sites won't work right without it (particularly sites some sites with shitty login authentication). But while I think Opera is personally the best out there, I understand it has a very low usage count compared to IE and mozilla, and just about every psuedo-modern Mac uses Safari. So, I'm not that surprised it doesn't rank on the list.

    14. Re:User-Agent stats? by slashflood · · Score: 2, Interesting


      Check out Googles Zeitgeist (scroll down a bit). It's very odd that the statistics of Google are so very different to everything else I've seen so far. Our website (not at all OSS related) has about 600k visits a month and I can see "alternative" browsers rising. IE looses 1 percent every month.

  8. Ingrained attitudes by robogun · · Score: 5, Informative
    From the review of Mozilla/Firefox:
    CONS: Default installation doesn't include many functions; you have to download additional features via the Extensions Manager. Will not load ActiveX and VBScript; this prevents certain kinds of attacks, but also disables the normal functions of some sites.


    Those are PROs if I ever saw one. Drive-by software installs and buggy Active-X is the reason I spend ten hours a month cleaning up computers of friends and family. WHo subseqently receive Mozilla and are forbidden to run IE except for Windows Update forevermore, on pain of no more free computer work.

    1. Re:Ingrained attitudes by gid13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah even the extensions thing is beautiful. Anyone know why Winamp is still so popular? Plugins. If you're willing to put a little searching time in, you can make it work exactly how you want it to, no matter how picky you are. Extensions are THE way to go if you want to browse the web on YOUR terms rather than MS's.

      For reference, I highly recommend the following extensions: Adblock, Flashblock, Googlebar, Context Search, Mycroft (pick and choose these though), All-in-one Gestures, and Tabbrowser Extensions. Wonderful stuff.

    2. Re:Ingrained attitudes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, it's like Car & Driver downgrading a car in a review because it's doors have locks on them.

    3. Re:Ingrained attitudes by mikeswi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Does PC Mag not "fact check" their articles? Something as simple as a google search would have shown them that ActiveX is an optional plug-in. In my results for firefox activex, the site of the person who develops the plugin is listed 2nd among 47,000 hits. If they have a burning desire to use ActiveX, they can do so.

      That said, I would never recommend that anyone use that plugin. That's like being rescued from a burning building and setting fire to the ambulance on your way to the hospital.

  9. Re:What about IE? by andyk62 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They Gave IE 4 Stare, but was choosen Editors Pick. Go and figure! Andy

  10. Interesting perspective. by digitalgimpus · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Interesting note here:
    Default installation doesn't include many functions; you have to download additional features via the Extensions Manager. Will not load ActiveX and VBScript; this prevents certain kinds of attacks, but also disables the normal functions of some sites.

    Emphasis mine.

    Now explain this? It's got boatloads more functionality (find as you type, tabbed browsing, popup blocker, livemarks [0.9+], etc etc.)... but it 'doesn't include many functions'.

    Now how does IE rank? Please don't tell me feature rich. That's like calling is secure. :-D
    1. Re:Interesting perspective. by sfjoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Now explain this? It's got boatloads more functionality (find as you type, tabbed browsing, popup blocker, livemarks [0.9+], etc etc.)... but it 'doesn't include many functions'.

      PC Magazine is really just a Windows mouthpiece. They have to pull their punches. You didn't think they'd put all that Microsoft ad revenue at risk did you?

      --
      It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
  11. Last Straw by thung226 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Considering I'd give IE a 0.5/5.0, there's no debate. The point is to use either of these before you use IE. The failure to patch IE after the Russian hacking debacle was the last straw. All users at my work are now on Firefox or Opera.

    Also, I have a lot of "non-techie" friends. You should see the amount of adware/spyware littered on these computers. It makes me sick, and it's all IE's fault (pop-up > get scared > *click* > install > forget > go back to "pop-up"... go to site > install under users' radar > repeat... I'm sick of it). IE sucks.

    --
    -n-
    1. Re:Last Straw by Anita+Coney · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I use Firefox on my system. My wife uses IE. I recently ran a spyware scan on both. Can you guess which computer was infected?

      --
      If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    2. Re:Last Straw by bwthomas · · Score: 2, Informative

      it's a very nice thing to use a browser built on a framework which allows you to decide for yourself which components you want active. Obviously you can turn off Active-X and other IE only stuff, but it's annoying that something so easily exploitable is there, on by default, and used by website designers designing for IE. Basically, the thing overlooked by the review is that Firefox is, to some extent, everything to everyone (so to speak); it can be lightweight, it can be feature filled. IE is... well, it's IE. it's buggy, non-standards-compliant software.

    3. Re:Last Straw by southpolesammy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, you almost hit on what I think really needs to be done next to really get Mozilla into critical mass area. And that is to do current reviews of IE. For every new review and push towards Mozilla and/or Opera, we need to give everyone the reasons why this is beneficial.

      OTOH, if an unbiased review of IE can produce comparable results, then at the very least, it gives the Mozilla and Opera folks a good idea of where to go next in developing the Uber-browsers. However, I have a hard time believing that IE can compare anymore, save for the annoying habit of web developers coding for IE only.

      --
      Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
    4. Re:Last Straw by thung226 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      True, though I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the population doesn't like random pop ups flying all over their screen. Opera and Mozilla have had a pop up blocker built in for years. Why hasn't IE followed suit? (rhetorical... please don't answer that... )

      Pop ups have been a huge problem for users for YEARS and IE has NEVER addressed the issue... that's bad software development.

      --
      -n-
  12. Install it for people by blackmonday · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I install Firefox for everyone I help with PC's, and no one has ever complained or needed additional help to use it. I had one person tell me they need their old bookmarks, but I showed them where you can see IE's imported bookmarks in the menu.

    I'm sure some of you already do this, but for those that don't, next time you're running ad-aware for your non-techie friends, install Firefox, show them the desktop shortcut, and tell them to click on that one for their Internet. They'll thank you for it when they stop getting pop ups and strange home pages and toolbars.

  13. Unimplemented feature by riqnevala · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Sorry, this browser does not support automated installation of trojans and other malicious applications, please upgrade to MSIE to further risk your computer security"

    --
    love slashdot. populate it. use it. abuse it. hate it. kill it. miss it. stop following links, they only kill servers.
  14. Re:Legitimate Browser Questions by angle_slam · · Score: 4, Insightful
    1) Resources. I'm running Windows XP and from what I understand, there is no way I can remove Internet Explorer from my computer. Call me a space hog, but I don't like having un-used aps on my computer. I figure better to have an inferior browser on my computer, a little extra space, and less confusion then to load both of them. Can anyone solve that problem?

    In the days of 256+ MB RAM and 40+ GB HD space, having an extra 10 MB app doesn't hurt you. I have both Firefox (0.8 because I can't get TabBrowser Extensions to work on 0.9) and IE on my work computer, for the increasingly rare site that requires IE to work.

  15. Go Firefox Go by ErikRed1488 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Being the resident tech guy in my family and circle of friends, I'm tasked with supporting all their computers. I do it free of charge for my family and work for beer when it comes to friends. With all the malware that infects Windows PCs through Internet Explorer I've been quite busy. I finally decided to install Firefox on all their PCs. As a condition of ongoing support, they must continue to use Firefox. Since I've institued this policy, they far happier with their online experience, no pop-ups, almost no ads (Adblocker rules!), and it's faster. Not only that, but my time supporting their PCs has gone down to almost nothing.

    Now that the Mozilla Foundation is a 501(c)3 organization I think I may have to insist that the family/friends make a little donation.

    --
    I was not touched there by an angel.
    1. Re:Go Firefox Go by solarium_rider · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ahh, see that's where you went wrong. Now your actually gonna have to buy your own beer.

      --
      -- How many sigs are as useless as this one?
  16. PC magazine seems to be getting less funding by MS by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I guess PC magazine has loss some funding from Microsoft. They seem be being slightly less "Window Is the Best" in their views. And starting to see that there are alternatives and they can be just as good.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  17. Does MS really care anymore? by Mitleid · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm curious; Microsoft has really given up on IE development over the past few years. The last major release was version 6, and that was well over 3 years ago to the best of my recollection. Could it be that MS no longer sees web browsers as a viable resource for their future strategy? I really have no speculation on what they might have up their sleave, but MS hasn't been one to necessarily drop the ball like this. From a security standpoint, one could say they really screwed the pooch, but as far as releasing a snazzy new version or anything to gloss over the problems under the hood, they've kept their hands off.

    --

    --
    Is it me, or did it just get fatter in here?
    1. Re:Does MS really care anymore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      After noticing that people generally hated web user interfaces, Microsoft started banking on network-distributed fat clients using XAML driving the sales of Longhorn. They deliberately didn't fully implement CSS, DHTML and XHTML because the less featureful web apps are in general, the more demand there will be for XAML applications (which btw, can only be consumed on a Windows machine).

      Microsoft did put the IE features team back together last month as a response to the growing threat of Mozilla - I think they made a critical error in judgement and are now going to have to play catch up to Mozilla until Longhorn comes out. More than that, Microsoft has already started to reevaluate the selling power XAML will have because whether Mozilla beats IE in the next two-three years or vice versa, more sites will capitalize on new browser technology to deliver richer UIs that reduce the need for technologies like XAML.

      Now if Mozilla just gets its act together and gets a strong managed framework backend for XUL....

    2. Re:Does MS really care anymore? by leperkuhn · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well they worked on it till they had a browser monopoly, then due to simple economics, stopped working on it. I believe that is one of the fundamental problems with monopolies, sort of like communism.

      --
      http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
    3. Re:Does MS really care anymore? by globalar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      1) Microsoft wants to give users an incentive to upgrade in the future. Mozilla Firefox, for example, has a majority of the functionality endusers actually need. There is little incentive to upgrade Mozilla (I'm speaking of the nontechnical majority) apart from things users typically do not understand (security, bugfixes, etc.). If IE were a real competitor for Mozilla, there would be less incentive to upgrade Windows in the future.

      2) Microsoft doesn't want to appear to copy or compete with an open source, free product. How can something free compete with something from Microsoft? That's the last question they want to hear from users, shareholders, etc. In fact, once a browser war started, Mozilla would not only be on top but would call the shots. That's not a position Microsoft wants to be in. Perhaps, that is a position Microsoft refuses to be in.

      I have not seen XP SP2 releases so I can't speak to changes made there.

  18. Best Quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The browser isn't perfect, however. Firefox does not render nonstandard DHTML properly, nor does the Mozilla Organization have any intention of releasing a browser that does.

    Well, good for them!

    Durrrr!

    1. Re:Best Quote by Plutor · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is actually a big issue in the development "community". Although the organization itself has resolved its position -- that non-compliant feature support is a slippery slope -- marking bugs as "WONTFIX" or "INVALID" in Bugzilla ends in dozens of duplicate bugs. The fourth most-reported bug (bug 25537) is in fact requests for a non-compliant (and MSIE-originating) feature -- alt tags as tooltips.

      This isn't the only one, either. Backslashes in URLs (bug 93197) is another one that comes to mind where Mozilla is between a rock and a hard place. Either Mozilla looks broken if you try to visit a moderately complex page created by Word, or it will effectively send the message that "buggy HTML is okay". Arguably, Mozilla's voice is still a small one in the fight, but say they become big. Do they keep doing things The Wrong Way? Or do they fix it, and then all of the developers who learned coding on Microsoft products and thought it was the right way file bugs?

      I support them sticking to their principles. Poor HTML markup (and non-standard DHTML) should be scorned. That's what "Tech Evangelism" bugs are for.

  19. Faster and More secure by dhartman · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I have a few clients who had previously insisted on remaining with IE because "it works best with the other Microsoft programs". However, when I removed the latest pile of spyware/adware and insisted that they at least TRY Firefox they had nothing but good things to say. Their 13 year old even says that "Hey dad, this is like waayy faster than IE". There have only been a few sites which 'require' IE (some due to incompetent web page coders who determine on their own that "this page won't render correctly with Mozilla", then block access using Javascript).

    Linux might not be ready for general public acceptance on their desktop, but using Open Source software such as Firefox, Open Office etc is the first step towards that acceptance. If you don't NEED Windows to run a program, it becomes alot easier to switch the underlying OS.

  20. slow rendering engine? by VoiceOfRaisin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    this is the one thing i MISS about IE. firefox is definately slower at rendernig, and before you say it, yes ive done all the speed tweaks. anyone saying this hasnt done tests and is just spewing anti ms fud. other than rendering speed firefox is better in almost all other aspects i find.

  21. my only problems with firefox by spacerodent · · Score: 4, Interesting

    the only downside to firefox I've found are problems with web sites designed ONLY to work with IE. I've only had the problem with a few web sites and hopfully as firefox gets more well known and excepted people will stop that kind of stupidity.

    1. Re:my only problems with firefox by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      some call the glass half empty, some call it half full. some say that a non-ie browser not working on a website is due to the browser, some say its at the hands of the website developers.

  22. Re:Opera... by fr2asbury · · Score: 3, Funny

    Does this mean there are 3 bitches to every star? Are we talking Hollywood here?

  23. There is no such thing as DHTML! by Christianfreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    DHTML is HTML with Javascript. Its just a buzz word, why do these PC magazines keep touting it as the latest and greatest thing???

    The browser isn't perfect, however. Firefox does not render nonstandard DHTML properly, (emphasis mine).

    Hello!! You said it yourselves! NONSTANDARD. Its websites that aren't perfect, not the browser. *head explodes*

    1. Re:There is no such thing as DHTML! by the-matt-mobile · · Score: 2, Informative

      Try this: create a page with a hidden layer

      Um... layer tags aren't standard HTML. It is a Netscape invention. So, this is one place where IE does the right thing. See here

  24. Re:Opera... by Nakito · · Score: 4, Informative

    In my book gets 4.5 stars. But the java/javascript errors that come up constantly are a bitch and a half.

    I give it 4.5 stars as well. I've been using Opera since version 3. My favorite features are the very simple things that let you browse painlessly even on poorly designed sites. For example, there is a button on the toolbar that lets you toggle images on and off without the need for changing your preferences. There is another button that lets you instantly override the color and font setting of a page with your own defaults. You can also turn off all plugins with a single checkbox. I tend to browse primarily for information, and nothing annoys me so much as poorly chosen backgrounds, graphics, and fonts that get in the way of reading the text. Opera lets me get straight to the content. It's a good browser, even though it is a bit flaky on javascript.

  25. And from the BBC by driftingAimfully · · Score: 4, Informative

    The BBC are running a similar story too:

    Rivals nibble at Microsoft's IE
  26. Firefox and DHTML by Mustang+Matt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Firefox doesn't have troubles with DHTML...

    "Firefox does not render nonstandard DHTML properly, nor does the Mozilla Organization have any intention of releasing a browser that does."

    Non-standard DHTML isn't really DHTML is it?

    --
    The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
    1. Re:Firefox and DHTML by nine-times · · Score: 2, Insightful
      In all fairness, you should probably post a larger quote to put that statement in context:

      'Firefox does not render nonstandard DHTML properly, nor does the Mozilla Organization have any intention of releasing a browser that does. While this isn't really Firefox's fault--it's because some sites don't follow W3C standards--the reality is that you may not be able to view everything on the Web with Firefox. That said, all of the pages that we regularly access loaded rapidly and accurately.'

      They probably could have formulated the sentence in a better way, so as to accentuate that this a problem with IE failing to cohere to standards and developers doing a poor job. I would probably question what it would mean to "render nonstandard DHTML properly". Not being standardized specifically means there isn't an agreed 'proper' way of rendering it. Do they mean to render DHTML the way IE does, and, if so, why are they insisting that the way IE renders things is the "proper" way?

      However, the statement (in general) isn't innacurate, or even very misleading: Mozilla doesn't render nonstandard DHTML the way IE does (let's leave out the 'properly'), and Mozilla doesn't really intend to have their browser display things in non-standard ways. Kudos for the Mozilla Foundation for supporting standards. Unfortunately, this does mean that some pages that IE users will see how the developer intended will not render as well, or may not work, in Firefox. However, most pages will render quite well.

      So that statement isn't what bothers me. What bothered me far more were some earlier statements in the article, like implying that Firefox was for people who "merely want to browse the Web quickly without any bells and whistles". It seems to imply that Firefox is somehow lacking, and people who want a full-fledged browser should look elsewhere. The truth is, without extentions, Firefox is more feature-rich than IE. With extentions, it's pretty terrific. Or in the main article:

      'IE's slow rendering engine and dearth of privacy features may plant the thought in some iconoclastic minds that it may not be the best browser for everyone.'

      'Iconoclastic'? 'Iconoclastic' usually connotes unnecessarily destructive tendancies or even blasphamy. Is the writer was trying to be witty or something? Either way, it's a very odd word choice.

  27. It's only a matter of time... by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Before FireFox becomes the target off major exploits. Hopefully Firefox will stand up against it, and the Open source world will respond as fast as expected.

    1. Re:It's only a matter of time... by Random+Web+Developer · · Score: 2, Informative

      happened a couple of days ago for the windows build (with the shell: exploit) a few hours later there were already multiple(3) ways of updating(2) or disabling the feature (1)

      --
      Artists against online scams http://www.aa419.org/
  28. Say what?! by khendron · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The browser isn't perfect, however. Firefox does not render nonstandard DHTML properly...

    So it is bad that the browser does not render bad source correctly?

    Granted, the article does go on to mention that this is not Firefox's fault, but they way it is cast as a problem really rubs the wrong way.

    --
    Life is like a web application. Sometime you need cookies just to get by.
    1. Re:Say what?! by yeremein · · Score: 2, Insightful
      No kidding. The fact that Firefox doesn't copy Internet Explorer's bugs can hardly be considered a flaw in Firefox.

      In other news, Sun's Java SDK isn't perfect, because it doesn't compile J# code properly. But we're not going to fault Internet Explorer for not rendering CSS1 and PNG files properly; nobody uses those anyway.

  29. Recently played with Firefox... by StressGuy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Also used Opera for a while. I really liked Opera, but it did have problems with javascript. Interesting to see that they are still working on that.

    As for Firefox, I still like plain old Mozilla better but looking forward to version 1.0.

    For me, as things stand right now. I like Mozilla the best with Konqueror coming in second.

    --
    A goal is a dream with a deadline
  30. To Really Speed FireFox/Mozilla Up by ironwill96 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The only issue I had initially with FireFox and Mozilla is how slow they seem to load picture-heavy sites such as www.cnn.com

    To speed up the load times of all sites add the following to your user.js file (if it doesnt exist - for Windows users, go to the run menu and type: %AppData% and then browse through the Mozilla folder and any sub folders until you get to your profile folder - inside of this create a new text document and call it user.js):

    // This one makes a huge difference. Last value in milliseconds (default is 250)
    user_pref("nglayout.initialpaint.delay", 0);

    // Change to normal Google search:
    user_pref("keyword.URL", "http://www.google.com/search?btnG=Google+Search&q =");

    // Instead of annoying error dialog messages, display pages:
    user_pref("browser.xul.error_pages.enabled", true);

    The other two changes are ones i've found useful as well - the second one changes the browser to do a normal Google search from the location bar instead of doing an "I'm Lucky" Google search (this is more useful in Mozilla than FireFox since FireFox comes w/ the Google search bar built in).

    The third change makes Mozilla and FireFox display error pages like IE instead of annoying dialog boxes when an error occurs (such as page not found). This helps a TON when doing tabbed browsing.

    Hope those tips are helpful for everyone else as much as they were for me. For more of them go to http://texturizer.net/firefox/tips.html

    --
    "To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson
    1. Re:To Really Speed FireFox/Mozilla Up by yeremein · · Score: 4, Informative
      As a warning: if you edit prefs.js while the browser is running, it will overwrite it when you exit.

      You can type about:config in Firefox's URL bar to change these preferences while the browser is running.

    2. Re:To Really Speed FireFox/Mozilla Up by SCHecklerX · · Score: 3, Informative

      You should use about:config these days to change prefs.

    3. Re:To Really Speed FireFox/Mozilla Up by anti-trojan · · Score: 2, Informative

      Thank you... Did you know that typing about:config in the url bar saves the hassle of editing prefs.js?

      Also I advise you to enable HTTP pipelining support by changing the values of network.http.pipelining and network.http.proxy.pipelining to true, and setting network.http.pipelining.maxrequests to a higher (like 100) value.

      Try visiting CNN before and after changing these settings (of course, delete your cache too).

    4. Re:To Really Speed FireFox/Mozilla Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      // This one makes a huge difference. Last value in milliseconds (default is 250)
      user_pref("nglayout.initialpaint.delay", 0);

      That preference (which controls how long Gecko waits before painting anything on the screen) actually makes rendering take longer as it has to do more repaints in total. It's only the perceived loading time that's reduced (that said, I often wonder how many people can really tell the difference between a delay of nothing and a delay of a quarter of a second).

  31. Re:Opera... No Gmail for Opera. by guidryp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I agree. I am an Opera user since way back. It is still my main browser but I use Firefox extensively. Mainly because of Operas poor javascript implementation.

    I can't read my Gmail with Opera, My online banking doesnt' work with Opera. I use add suported because if I need a second browser I am not paying for the first.

    Fix that (or ignore that) and it is by far the best browser IMO. This is from someone typing on Firefox right now.

    Opera even with all features integrated is leaner and faster. None of the features collide, which is a problem I have with some firefox extensions (to try and get Opera functionality).

    Opera addiction. Opera seems to be the only browser with true page caching. Hit back 4 times as fast as you can and instantly you will be back 4 pages. No load times and seemingly no render times. It is totally cached. This is like browsing on JOLT. Once you get hooked on the speed it is hard to go back.

    To me going to the slower browsers is like going from DSL to dialup. I need my speed.

  32. Now that you have changed your browser... by freeduke · · Score: 4, Informative
    would you go any further?

    Instead of using the default Windows software, as you have seen, other applications runs well under windows: Firefox and Opera are cool for browsing, but now that you are on the way to change your mind, give thunderfox a try, it is far better than outlook (or outlook express).

    Then, forget your included windows media player, and try alternatives like BSplayer and others. When you want to edit a picture, use Gimp for windows or replace your illegal copy of Word by OpenOffice.

    And if you enjoy what you are getting, and this new perspective of choices, jump in and join the GNU/Linux community.

  33. Don't uninstall it... by fanfriggintastic · · Score: 2, Informative

    First off, you shouldn't totally uninstall it, else you lose access to Windows Update. Sure you can use the auto-update, but you lose a lot of control that way, and you won't get access to the non-critical patches that way.

    On top of that, the benefit of freeing up the drive space IE requires is not worth the headahce of trying to remove the damn thing, especially since part of it is built into the OS. Instead, if you have the Service Patch installed, you can use the Control Panel uninstall, which simply removes access to IE. At least it'll keep IE "out of sight, out of mind..."

    --
    This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is a tribute.
  34. Re:"IE's slow rendering engine" WTF? by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 3, Interesting

    For one, IE does rendering many times VERY BAD.

    CSS is nearly non-existant.
    PNG, whats that? Alpha colors, we dont do em!
    And then there's just plain rendering inconsistencies. What you see is NOT what you get!!

    Mozila hopes to implement the STANDARDS, not be super-fast. After all, computers will just get faster as time goes on. Why not do it correct and not as fast. Its the Unix Way.

    --
  35. Out of the frying pan... by Hobophile · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It's great to see Firefox gaining momentum among regular computer users, but I can't help but feel that it won't fare much better, security wise.

    We've already seen significant security holes in Firefox, and this is with a negligible market share. Once it gets targetted directly, exploits may be just as common as they currently are with Internet Explorer.

    And if that happens, where is the security update infrastructure to ensure everyone gets patched? Microsoft won't integrate Firefox into Automatic Updates. Sure, mailing lists and /. will carry the news of new Firefox security flaws, but will the average user see those announcements?

    The problem with telling users to switch to Firefox for security reasons is that it's usually sold as a permanent fix to the problem, when in all honesty it never will be.

    But the user, having been told that "Firefox is secure", probably won't bother checking the Mozilla site on a regular basis, if ever. Automatic update notification is supposed to be coming in the future, but that does little for anyone who's installed Firefox in the past couple of weeks and doesn't plan to touch it again.

    1. Re:Out of the frying pan... by Derang() · · Score: 4, Informative

      And if that happens, where is the security update infrastructure to ensure everyone gets patched?

      As of 0.9, firefox has an automatic update checker thing to let the user know when new versions are availible. It seill has a few kinks to be worked out, but they're going in the right direction.

  36. Re:Opera... by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I really think Opera's notes feature is going to take over bookmarks. If I hightlight your post here, right click, and hit 'copy to note', then a note is placed into the notes tab which is similar to bookmarks. It shows me the first line of the post, and if I click it, a small window appears showing the entire set of data I've copied to the note. If I double click on it, a window opens up to your comment on Slashdot. I've tossed bookmarks aside in favor of this. I'd rather the note be a quick summary of why I thought it was interesting, as opposed to the title of the page.

    --
    "Derp de derp."
  37. On Opera's ad... by Illissius · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...just want to point out that it's just a Google text ad in the toolbar. Completely unintrusive, and after two days unnoticeable unless you happen to be bored and want to look at what it's saying (which ranks up there with reloading /. on ways to waste time effortlessly).

    --
    Work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively.
  38. Re:Legitimate Browser Questions by Seekerofknowledge · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1) Resources. I'm running Windows XP and from what I understand, there is no way I can remove Internet Explorer from my computer. Call me a space hog, but I don't like having un-used aps on my computer. I figure better to have an inferior browser on my computer, a little extra space, and less confusion then to load both of them. Can anyone solve that problem?

    Yes, get your head out of your ass. Would you remove the seatbelts from your car to have "less confusion", or "a little extra space" ??

    It's 2004, not 1994. A few megs isn't even worth thinking about on a desktop computer. IE trojans and exploits are real. Deal with it.

  39. Mozilla and Hotmail by WormholeFiend · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I recently installed Mozilla, but I still need my hotmail account... Even if Mozilla is set as my main browser and main emailware, when I click a link from an email in my Hotmail inbox, it opens IE... and when I click the "email" button in MSN Messenger, it opens Outlook.

    Is it possible to castrate this annoyance?

    1. Re:Mozilla and Hotmail by pydron · · Score: 4, Informative

      Use the extension MozEx, which allows you to select which apps launch when you click on a link.

  40. Re:I run Moz/FF exclusivly but... by manWorkSucks · · Score: 2, Informative

    as another poster said, this has been fixed, and if i remember correctly from the coverage on slashdot the other day, it's really an OS (Windows) issue. Moz. on other OSes wasn't affected and all browsers using the shell support suffered from this. Publicizing this as a Mozilla flaw is clearly just grasping at straws to try and drag Mozilla down. And the fact that there's already a fix for Moz. speaks highly for the developers.

    --
    NERDS!!!!
  41. Re:Article Text (site seems slow) by Condor7 · · Score: 2, Informative



    Opera has an option to start where you left off last time, Mozilla has the Session Saver extension.

  42. Re:Opera... by Asprin · · Score: 3, Insightful


    My favorite Opera feature is the page view zoom, especially for printing. Unlike Mozilla's zoom feature, which only scales the text, Opera scales the whole page including the images, so the layout and placement look very much the same, only bigger/smaller as requested. It wouldn't surprise me if Opera's zoom violates a few standards here and there, but I wish every browser did it like that. Very handy, indeed.

    --
    "Lawyers are for sucks."
    - Doug McKenzie
  43. Grow Up by krmt · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Yeah, everybody's ignorant because they don't know of an obscure browser they weren't looking for because IE's doing its job satisfactorally for them.
    Ignorance is not neccessarily meant to be taken as an insult. Simply not knowing something is not so bad a thing. It's definitely not the same as being called stupid. Yes, these people are ignorant because they don't know about Mozilla. Whether or not this is an insult is another matter.
    I think you're ignorant because you don't know what normal mapping is, even though all of use 3D artists out there consider that beginner's knowledge.
    I'm sure every single 3D artist out there uses a web browser, but how many web browser users are 3D artists? Your analogy is crap. It's more like driving a car and not knowing that there are a number of models out there to choose from. I admit my ignorance in the realm of 3D modeling, but I'm also not insulted by this in the slightest.
    --

    "I may not have morals, but I have standards."

  44. Is MSIE a "browser". No! by rcgawenda · · Score: 2, Informative

    Let me explain: We'll take the browser word as all of we are thinking, ie. a program that displays/navigates webpages. Web pages are HTML, transferred to the browser using HTTP. HTTP is a "defined" standard, and it marks as REQUIRED the compliance with some other RFC docs, one of them being the URI definition doc, in which is allowed the proto://user:pass@site/path that MSIE disabled in one of the latest 500 patches. Let's do some 1-1=0 MSIE doesn't support http, and then it shouldn't be called browser.

  45. Re:Article Text (site seems slow) by realmolo · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you like CrazyBrowser, you really should be using Maxthon (formerly MyIE2):

    http://www.maxthon.com

    It's like SUPER CrazyBrowser ;) And it's updated constantly.

  46. One happy Firefox user! by Luscious868 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've been using Firefox for a few months now and I absolutely love it. The popup blocking is great, tabbed browsing makes working with multiple open web sites easy, find as you type is a real time saver and so is the built in Google search bar. The compact UI is cool as well because more screen realistate is devoted to the website I'm lookking at.

    I can't recommend Firefox highly enough. If you enable Automatic Updates in Windows, there's really no reason to use IE. I've only come across a site or two that required IE in order to display correctly and when it happened I fired off a note to the webmaster.

    If you haven't tried Firefox and are using IE what in the world are you waiting for? The worst that can happen is that you decided you don't like it and uninstall it. When you compare that to just some of the annoying things that can and do happen when running IE (spyware, malware, constant pop-ups, constant security issues, etc) trying Firefox becomes a no brainer.

  47. Re:Legitimate Browser Questions by chill · · Score: 2, Insightful

    SPA w/NTLM was incorporated into Thunderbird at v0.5. I also believe it is in Mozilla.

    As far as #1 -- you've probably gotten lots of answers on that. :-) The only real answer is if you get to the point where an extra 50 Mb is needed, then worry about it. And...if you are in that much of a bind for 50 Mb, you've got bigger problems than deleting a browser.

    -Charles

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  48. Opera is the fastest and smallest by rd_syringe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Firefox and Mozilla love to hog up my memory. Again, I have to ask, why do they re-implement all their own widgets? It's completely insane. It's just a browser.

    Opera is speedy, it renders Slashdot correctly (something Mozilla and Firefox still can't do), and it doesn't suck up all my memory just because some people wanted to reinvent the wheel. And all of Opera's best featurs have been ripped off and hailed as Mozilla innovations. Tabbed browsing? Mouse gestures? Pop-up blocking? It was all Opera first.

  49. Re:Opera... by Ruediger · · Score: 2, Informative

    FF has an image zooming extension but AFAIK it won't scale text and images automatically.

    --
    "...personality goes a long way."
  50. Re:Opera... by eugene+ts+wong · · Score: 2, Funny
    there is a button on the toolbar that lets you toggle images on and off without the need for changing your preferences
    Actually, that is somewhat untrue. You can set it to view cached images as well. This tells Opera to set the images holders according to size, but not load the images that you don't have. You could then right click on the image that you want to see, select "Load image". Setting images to off, then selecting "Load image" doesn't work as well for some reason.

    It's hard for me to explain, but I have permanently set it the way that I've described. Once you try it for a day, then you'll never turn back. You could always turn images on/off as you've described.
  51. ...so install a User Agent switching tool by Goldenhawk · · Score: 2, Informative
    ... like User Agent Switcher Extension. Why on earth would you let a site identify your browser correctly when you can spoof it? If you want to continue to "plug" your use of a non-IE browser, you can always append some explanatory text at the end, like:
    --Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Actually Mozilla Firefox - try it now!)

    The beauty of the FireFox design IS the plugins - you can do this kind of thing.

    Oh, and by the way, there are many other ways to do this, and you can also do it in Opera and Mozilla. Here's a comprehensive article on how to manipulate the User Agent strings.

    --
    --Brandon / Split Infinity Music

  52. Work computers by billybob · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You of course are forgetting to realize that many of us are FORCED to use Windows and IE in our work environments. And how could one let the day go by without catching up on the latest slashdot news at least several times during your 8 hours of hell? :)

    PS - I'm posting this from work :)

    --
    Joseph?
  53. Firefox by t0rc · · Score: 3, Funny

    I always thought that in order to use Firefox you needed to be able to think in Russian. I'm surprised you don't see microsoft pointing this out as drawback.

  54. Re:Actually Opera is order magnitude faster. by guidryp · · Score: 2, Informative

    "That's not a feature that is unique to opera. I know for a fact that IE can do it and I am fairly certain that FF can do it as well. "

    Actually having the option is not the same as having a speedy implementation of it. I just tested all three browsers.

    I changed IE as you suggested. With firefox I used preferential to change the cache check_doc_frequency to never.

    I then ran a series of web pages in each then stepped back and forward with buttons. Results:

    Opera seems like you are flipping a static image cache it is that fast. No hesitation absolutely instant.

    Both IE and FF have noticiable delay, you can see the items drawn on the screen. In one page they took a long time. Firefox was the slowest and still seemed to be loading. Perhaps the option doesn't work.

    This page was quite slow on both. All pages lightning on Opera.
    http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/c ities/ca n/pages/CAON0512.htm

    If I had to guess, I would say opera is caching pre-rendered pages, while the others store files but render when you load the page.

    Whatever the reason, my original point remains, Opera is an Order of magnitude faster with cached pages. It is not contest. Once you get used to INSTANT, you can't go back.

  55. Interesting points... by Schwartzboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I won't speak to people getting excited over a 1% drop in IE usage, because that just seems silly to me, but taking each of those FUD-sounding statements in turn I came up with the following:

    "IE is insecure because of ActiveX"
    According to Microsoft,"An ActiveX control can be an extremely insecure way to provide a feature...the control may be vulnerable to attack because any Web application on the Internet can repurpose it, that is, use the control for its own ends whether sincere or malicious.". There are numerous other sources for the "ActiveX makes IE insecure" opinion, but if I were making a case for it I'd start with something directly from the company responsible for IE. To be fair, the article goes on to discuss what you can do as a developer to make your own ActiveX components secure, but I refer back to the first sentence and think about the old adage concerning chains and their weakest links...

    "Microsoft has said they will never support CSS2"
    Again, according to Microsoft,"Stricter parsing is more consistent with the standards promulgated by the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)--the CSS, Level 1 (CSS1) and CSS, Level 2 (CSS2) specifications.". This seems to imply that IE does, in fact, support CSS2, but if a dissenting opinion can be backed up with proof (i.e.- "insert this CSS2 compliant stuff into a simple HTML page and watch IE 6 vomit on it") I'd sooner believe that than the MS site. I'm just lazy and attempting to address each point using only Microsoft-approved information...so on this point, at least, I have to admit that it's FUD according to what MS would have you believe.

    "IE runs faster than Mozilla because it's integrated in the kernel"
    Again, Microsoft has an archived news story that says, among other things, "DOJ's Request for New Court Order Shows that Internet Explorer is an Integrated Feature of Windows". Granted, this is from 1997 and refers to Win95/IE 3.0, but I'm lazy and couldn't find anything more current WRT IE's integrated/nonintegrated status. Given the assumption that IE's relationship to the OS has remained the same, I think it's reasonable to suggest that an application that's part of the OS will run faster than one that isn't.

    So, through some very cursory research, it would appear that there is some factual basis for at least two of those three allegations according to sources at the organization that is the target of the supposed FUD.

    And so, ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, if Chewbacca does not make sense...

    --
    "Linux doesn't exist. Everyone knows Linux is an unlicensed version of Unix"- Kieren O'Shaughnessy
  56. Your Analogy Is Still Crap by krmt · · Score: 2, Insightful
    However, it is the general opinion here that people that use IE are stupid. You can't honestly tell me you think that the post I replied to meant that in a nice way.
    I agree that the general opinion is that IE users are stupid (and it's the stupid people who hold that opinion) but what surprised me is that I really don't think the post you replied to was meant in a bad way. The grandparent post said that they used IE out of habit and ignorance, and the parent post to yours said that billions of people did the same. There wasn't any statement of condemnation in those posts.

    Furthermore, the post you quoted simply stated that IE's horrible security record is demonstrable by evidence, also a fact without any real condemnation. None of these posts had any sort of condemnation of IE users, which is what you seem to have inferred. Perhaps you saw something in them that wasn't really there?
    I agree. If my analogy had anything to do with 3D artists using web browsers, it would be crap.
    It's still crap. Your analogy expects someone who doesn't use anything related to 3D modelling to know something about it, but this has no relation to the subject at hand. Instead, try asking someone for some basic knowledge about something they do use, like asking a 3D modeller using IE about Mozilla, since they obviously know and use a web browser. This actually applies, and as such it would make a better analogy than your own.
    --

    "I may not have morals, but I have standards."

  57. BSPlayer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Let me just add that BSPlayer is an amazing program that runs much faster and easier than any current Windows Media Player version (admitedly, I have no problems with the 'unsupported' WMP 6.x but you can't get that from Microsoft anymore). I'm surprised more people on the Windows platform haven't heard it. In addition to a wide variety of features like subtitles, surround sound, faster seeking and... well actually I'm not very good at remembering which features WMP also has. But here's something really cool... BSPlayer can play incomplete files fairly well. That's right, corrupted downloads or badly compressed video is no longer a problem... as long as you have the appropriate codecs installed (still a necessary evil to install them manually, Gregorian Knot helps though)... you can view it. Even from unfinished P2P.

    Having just pronounced my love for BSPlayer, let me just say that an open-source application named VideoLAN plays incomplete files even better than BSPlayer, but it falls short in many other areas. I believe it's original purpose is to view streaming media off of a network.

  58. the last non-IE browser i used was netscape 4.7 by waspleg · · Score: 4, Informative

    Until about a week ago when i was introduced to Firefox. Here I'll give my opinions based on years of browsing and although I've used virtually every browser out there from lynx to safari I primarily use IE and have for the last several years so I will compare Firefox to it. As I've read other posts comparing speed, I find both of them render comparably fast, are compatible with roughly the same media and are basically equal at this level. People complain about the load times compared to IE but I really don't notice it that much, and there is none with tabs, they're very fast. I was skeptical at first and it still has a few annoying things I don't like but they're fewer than what I do so I'll list them first:

    CONS
    1.) you can't just press enter like in IE after entering information eg login/password, searches anything you have to press tab THEN enter.

    2.) it doesn't pass off most wmv files to mplayer2 like it should and does with everything else fine

    3.) why can't i run exes? must it not only second guess me but lock me into a forced download/install/delete cycle when IE lets me just execute after the download is complete trusting me to make the right choice?

    PROS
    1.) easily installed (ctrl-d, i like hte mimiced funcationality as it makes migrating easier for me and i'm lazy) highly functional bookmark toolbar buttons which even show the related website graphic with the associated website such as the green /. i'm looking at right now.

    2.) multiple browser tabs easily opened (ctrl-t), i had heard about these before but i grossly underestimated just how useful these really are until i started using them, never again will i go hunt and peck for the right IE window at the bottom my ever cramped taskbar.

    3.) beautiful and extremely functional themes with details only someone who made it with love would think to include like red/yellow/green status lights for if a tabbed page is loading and separate forward and back list box histories (i'm using nautipolis from the site i found simply by clicking on "get themes")

    4.) extension plug-ins available that flawlessly install, notable examples include a tiny java vm compared to the huge sun download and resource hog, easily done macromedia flash without any bullshit of registering or clicking through 400 pages to install associated with a similar typical IE 3rd party install, these are all seamlessly integrated and the installs are smooth. My personal favorite and most important extension is the adblock extension, which allows me to block source sites for ads with a simple right click and a wildcard.

    5.) built in search and popup blocking, you take these things for granted if you have the google toolbar installed as i did but this takes up less realestate (almost none, a tiny google search thumb in the right corner) and is more functional and the google news button is easily emulated as per the buttons mentioned above.

    Overall Firefox is extremely impressive and I'm rarely impressed and not only is it a lesson to microsoft not to sit on their laurels, in regards to adding actual functionality instead of endless security patches but its really a testament to how free software should be, polished, easy to use, portable and easily added on to by others. It's software products like these that will undermine monopolies and I'm sure htey're not unaware of the threat.

    It's a pity there isn't a few billion dollars to market Firefox with or they would dominate. Even so word of mouth is powerful and it generates a momentum that is difficult to turn back.

  59. User-Agent Strings: Opera v. Firefox by nozzle! · · Score: 2, Informative

    One thing not mentioned in the reviews is that, while both browsers allow the user to change the reported user-agent string (Firefox through an add-on extension), only Firefox does this correctly, while Opera reports the user-agent you specify, PLUS Opera as well.

  60. How to make Firefox render pages faster than IE by Jack+Zombie · · Score: 5, Informative

    To make Firefox render pages faster than IE, start by typing "about:config" in your FireFox address bar. Look for nglayout.initialpaint.delay and set it to 0 (zero).

    The initialpaint.delay is the length of time (in milliseconds) after the server response before the browser begins to paint the page. By default it is 250 milliseconds, and even though by setting it to 0 (like Internet Explorer) makes it _seem_ to display pages faster, it ends up taking more overall time than with the default value.

    You can also make Firefox faster by:

    1.) Setting network.http.pipelining to true
    2.) Setting network.http.proxy.pipelining to true
    3.) Setting network.http.pipelining.maxrequests to a number between 1 and 8

    Enabling the pipelining features allows the browser to make multiple requests to the server at the same time. The "maxrequests" is the maximum number of requests it will send at once. 8 is the maximum Firefox allows it to be, but it may bog down yours, or the server, connection, so it is best to leave these options on their default values.

    More information about these and other tweaks are available at the MozillaZine's Firefox Tuning Thread.

    --
    "You should never doubt what nobody is sure about." -- Willy Wonka
  61. Re:What about IE? by BollocksToThis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Their "rating" is just a subjective opinion anyway. There's no info in either review to explain how the 3.5 and 4 ratings were given. In fact, there's no reference to the rating at all. I had a hard time even spotting the 3.5 and 4 scores that I read about, because it just looked like page decoration.

    Basically, the scores are meaningless, and the reviews just say both are great browsers (which means I don't have to go trolling slashdot over how Opera should have scored better than Firefox).

    Also, can someone tell me where this session management in Firefox is? I can't seem to see it. Is it brand new to 0.9.1, or is it an add-on I haven't installed?

    --
    This sig is part of your complete breakfast.