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Japan Considers Taxing of WiFi
DoktorTomoe writes "According to an article at Asia Pacific Media Network, Japan plans to introduce a fee for using WLan. The changes necessary for such taxation could be made as early as 2005. "
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I hope this doesn't give the US Governement any wild ideas...
DAMN YOU OCTODOG! DAMN YOU TO HELL!
Isn't this a bit moronic? Find things that make economies more efficient and help spread information and tax them? It's not like wireless costs the government anything to allow. Oh yeah, first post.
How can someone but a tax on using Wi-Fi? That would be like putting a tax on the cordless phones, or remote car locks. Stupid, and a cheep way to get some money for the government!
What's the point of a sig?
How would the japanese authorities manage to figure out who was using WLan? Would there be a tax on the devices themselves? I don't see how this could be feasible.
Taxes and Inconvenience come first. Customer come Second! ZING!
Hey, when's the oxygen tax coming out? Oh, and I think we should also create a tax for walking anywhere, by counting the steps each person takes and sending them a bill at the end of the month. Could be rolled into the breathing tax, by counting the number of breaths each person takes and adding them together for a Human Life Tax. Or we could just tax Wifi...
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
involves the power to destroy -- Chief Justice John Marshall
Realistically, how do they plan on doing this? A levy on the purchase of Wi-FI hardware, or do they somehow plan to tax the *usage* of the spectrum?
If they use the second option, how do they plan on enforcing this?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 Whoops, silly middle mouse button...
Are you nuts? You're going to give them ideas!
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
This would be a crappy thing, admittedly, but all other Over the Air signals in japan are already taxed by the broadcaster of the signals (I believe). So, this isn't entirely unexpected.
ASIA TAX
Does this mean that the Japanese government is going to take up wardriving to look for violators?
Unknown host pong.
Yet more blatant governmental greed...
At least it will be hard to enforce.
...if it is explored commercially! For home and company use, how will they charge it? Now, if a company is providing a commercial service over unregulated spectrum, it could be taxed. But if it is taxed, shouldn't the providers receive the same guaranties as the providers of other regulated wireless access, like the right to have it's spectrum free from interference, etc?
Taxing of WiFi considered... in Japan!
I can see how they apply a tax to cell phones and other such devices that require an account with a provider, as taxes can be enforced via the normal billing cycle. But how do you tax WiFi? It certainly couldn't be done via the ISP's billing mechanism (right?)...
I'm interested to see how they figure this one out, but I must say...this reminds me of the chainmails of a few years back that claimed the U.S. Government was going to tax email.....
That's really a horrilbe stereotype. That being said, I laughed my ass off.
I propose a tax on all those who stand in water!
*looks around*
ooooooogghhh!
Believe me, wifey is taxing enough. That bitch won't stop nagging me.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
If it's offered commercially.
Wouldn't it already be covered by some tax? If I pay 20 bucks an hour at starbucks (no idea what it costs), isnt there some goods or services tax applied in the US (depending on state?)
Any time money changes hands, the government will make sure they get some. The beatles wrote a song about it and everything, try not to be too shocked.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Someone mentioned that maybe the Japanese tax authorities would be wardriving....
"This is a cat license with the word 'cat' crossed out and the word 'wifi' written in in crayon"
--
BMO
A tax on Wifi? What about Hubby?
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I would love to see japanese WiFi police in orange jumpsuits wardriving the streets of tokyo, looking for untaxes hotspots... And underground Yakuza wireless networks would be nifty.
Charles Barkley says, "Bof."
All I've seen here so far are people whining about getting taxed on a service.
Have you ever looked at your home cable internet bill, flipped it around to the back and noticed the amount of tax placed on it? Federal Tax, Service Tax, etc etc. A good $4-$5 worth of tax goes to the government because you use cable/dialup internet. This is nothing new, and nothing that we should be surprised about.
"We're breaking out the ramen noodles. . . "
"Really? Is it someone's birthday?"
I for one think this is a good thing!
....humm maybe I posted that comment on the wrong website :( hehe
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I mean, they're going to RF tag school girls, right? Are they then going to turn around and tax them because of this?
;)
Criminals and the government both win!
"An infinite number of monkeys typing into GNU emacs would never make a good program."
I can't believe all the idiots on /. ...
They're talking about an extra tax on wifi hardware, not on "usage" per se. The tax would be at time of sale. RTFA, people.
Are we missing something here?
Wouldn't it be pretty simple to tax at point of sale for wifi devices? and/or tax on imports of wifi devices?
I guess for annually recurring taxes, a government might require some sort of registration, in order to purchase wifi devices, and then basically license there use???
-5
So, they are going to what - count the number of wifi devices you have in your house? How is this supposed to work?
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
Japan, technology being their biggest industry by far, is seriously shooting themselves in the foot with this one.
The article is actually short and answers all your stupid questions.
JAPAN: Ministry to broaden spectrum user fees
Telecommunications ministry might slap users of home information appliances and high-bandwidth wireless local area networks with spectrum user fees
The Japan Times
Tuesday, July 20, 2004
The telecommunications ministry might slap users of home information appliances and high-bandwidth wireless local area networks with spectrum user fees, ministry sources said Monday.
The Public Management, Home Affairs, Posts and Telecommunications Ministry plans to submit Radio Law revisions to introduce the new charges during next year's ordinary Diet session, the sources said.
Users of home information appliances and wireless LANs are currently exempt from paying spectrum user fees.
But the ministry plans to hit the users with these fees because such appliances use almost the same spectrum as mobile phones, whose users are required to pay the fees, they said.
The move might provoke stiff opposition from product manufacturers as it is likely to affect their sales.
The ministry plans to collect fees from users of information appliances when they purchase these products, according to the sources.
Manufacturers of home appliances are currently stepping up efforts to develop information appliances that are linked via wireless networks and can be controlled from anywhere.
Spectrum user fees have been charged in connection with licensed broadcasting and radio stations, as well as with cellular phone companies.
zan
So is the 2.4Ghz band not public in Japan like it is in the US (and I would assume Europe)? Or, does their equivilent of the FCC just encourage this kind of thing?
Sounds to me like somebody decided that there's a big pot o' gold waiting for them if they can tax the numerous WiFi operators. It also sounds to me like they didn't think it through one bit. What an effective way to kill a technology like this.
The reason this would be an unfair tax is that it's a tax on transmitters, but not a license for spectrum use.
The cell-phone frequency example cited in the article puts Joe Japanese Wifi User on par with cell companies. However, cell companies get a slice of spectrum *licensed*, all to themselves. If they find someone transmitting on that frequency other than themselves, they can order them to shut down, and/or take them to court.
Joe Wifi User gets no such protection. If two guys buy Wifi base stations and set them up next to each other, they both 'payed for the use of the spectrum' and get exactly the same ( no ) protection for the money they've paid. It's just an extra, specific tax on wifi equipment, not any sort of 'spectrum use' fee. A spectrum use fee implies a protected license to use that spectrum. Wifi ain't like that, we're all using the *same* range of frequencies.
In japan!
wait a minute...
This is the way the government works. I wouldn't be suprised if our government is currently pursuing an equivalent system. The government makes the carriers (backbone, isps) pay for a right-of-way on the physical cabeling through their districts. They also have to pay large amounts of taxes on using this infastructure.
With wireless the government loses out on any direct profit from communication systems, because where the simplicity of wireless comes in it also brings a giant headache for them. I expect to hear something along these lines happening any time in the near future.
Steal This Sig
I use the same spectrum in my microwave oven. Do I have to pay tax for using it?
Finally, someone who read the article. Yes, they tax it at retail time. It's a one-time fee.
Six score characters.
Brevity being wit's soul
I have enough space.
It won't be for the service: "The ministry plans to collect fees from users of information appliances when they purchase these products, according to the sources."
"We're breaking out the ramen noodles. . . "
"Really? Is it someone's birthday?"
What would one expect? I am sure there will be a nice little movement to charge Universal Service Fee as well. Never mind that it's illogical. Just pray that if these fees get added, they'd be one time only, and not "every month that equipment is in use". Then you will pay for VOIP dearly -- your broadband provider, tax on broadband access, tax on VOIP service, tax on WiFi router that is used to connect VOIP box. :)
Socialism is alive and well here...
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Is my patience. Someone should commit seppku for suggesting such a stupid idea.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Here is a helpful list of potentially taxable items for the government to increase revenue
/.
1) air
2) hair growth
3) pictures taken of public land
4) heart beats
5) using walkways
6) chimpanzee's entering the white house
also, here are things that perhaps should require a license
1) Walking
2) using compound sentences
3) posting to
this is a tax on companies _selling_ WiFi service and not a tax on breathing, understand?
-- Checking emails and kicking cheats `till the day I die.
this is probably someones answer as how to equalize voice over ip with plain old telephone taxes...
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Equally, ther gov't could sell of that spectrum to someone, and make some cash. At least if they are taxing it they are unlikely to decide to sell it to T-mobile or someone in 5 years time.
straws.
Japan's national debt rivals that of the US, despite the fact that Japan's GDP is only 40% of the US, though a mitigating factor is that Japan's debt is almost all domestically held, whereas the US's is held by a large number of foriegn countries, including ironically Japan. Japan's debt is 140% of their GDP, the highest in the industrialized world. The reason? Taxes are relatively low in Japan to begin with, but Japan insisted on spending it's way out of a recession by so many useless public works projects(which is why I cringe every time the US highway bill is passed), and failed miserably. It was absolutely amazing to me when I was there, I saw construction crews tear apart a perfect road to pave it again. I was dumbfounded(esp. since I come from PA, where they won't fix the roads even when they need it) And with the deepening pension scandal, where politicians didn't pay into Japan's pension system for many years, expect many more wacky taxes to come out of Japan..
In Soviet Russia, WiFi taxes you.
It is not our abilities that show what we truly are... it is our choices.
The problem is that the Cat Detector Vans are part of the Ministry of Housinge, and WiFi is governed by the Post Office.
Cordless phones or remote car locks use a range of frequency that is of little use for WANs (like cellular phone coberture) so they have little regulation (your cordless phone surely won't interfere with your neighbours', if it is well built). For these devices, they just provide a few regulation of the band that can be used and so on.
On the other hand, other frequencies are a lot more useful... cellular phone companies must pay the government (at last in many European countries) because they are using a public, limited resource (a frequency range) privately. It may be presented openly as a tax or more covertly, but it does exists. So it is not so dull to think of applying the same idea to Wi-Fi.
Thanks. :)
COME ON, mod this one up!! its funny.
They should just set up a special "Hello Kitty" tax. It should solve their debt problems in no time.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
We have to pay for our water here (UK), and I imagine most people reading this will pay a similar levy.
All well and good, it costs money to process the water for consumption.
But it is mandated that *all* precipitation belongs to the state.
You cannot (legally) collect water for drinking yourself.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Right here in Norway. It is called "Høythbjånds skatan", or as it is called among the geeks here "Tis mig i øret", which is a delicious pun. Anyway unlike this one time fee suggested in Japan, we must register when buying our favorite Linksys or whatever and the tax is around 50$ pr year.
The fun thing is that most shops does not register people when they sell it(like when you buy a tv). I have yet to see this tax enforced and most people does not know it exists.
In all fairness, I must say that this law was before the days of wifi so it is a kind of a "leftover" that should be put to death.
Florida Proposes Taxing Local LANs
We have to pay for our air here (UK), and I imagine most people reading this will pay a similar levy.
All well and good, it costs money to process the air for consumption.
But it is mandated that *all* oxygen belongs to the state.
You cannot (legally) collect air for breathing yourself.
This gives me a good feeling for the night! Maybe interesting to think about!
In taxing WLan, the government can develop ways to make it more secure...in Japan.
Buy used WiFi gear. If there isn't a good market for it yet, POS taxes will create one.
It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
This isn't exactly news, not for Japan anyways.
Seriously, evertyhing there is controlled/owned by commercial corporations. Want the weather forcast? You can pay an extra fee so you can see them on your uber-1337 cellphone. Got used to free (i.e. state provided) services and infrastructure? Start unlearning fast if Japan is your stay!
I propose that there be a taxing tax, in which taxing as an action is itself taxed. This way, there will be fewer taxations coming out. Of course, the taxing tax itself can be taxed and so on to infinity.
Hey Guys, depsite what pop media would have us believe-Japan is not a progressive 1st world techno haven. All one has to do is spend about a year here to see the most errant nonesense imaginable. If it's too convenient, too efficient, too logical-you can bet it will be regulated to death....and everyone is just told to "endure"....
Officer: "Why is that Pringles can in your window mounted on a tripod?"
And it's my _first_ First Post!. Congradulate me!!!
I tip my hat to you, sir. Ontopic, funny, and making use of a repetitive joke.
The depth astounds me. And if I don't stop I'm going to sound like and English major.
Depends on local spectum regulations.
Amateur radio operators have to pay a yearly license fee in most european countries, but they are not protected from interference from others amateur radio stations, beacuse the amateur radio license is a shared spectrum one. Anyway amateur radio is protected from interference from other services or illegal transmission.
pretty bad though. the government agency that allocates frequencies gave the 2.4ghz band to an electric utility company. they use that frequency for their monitoring (scada.)
people pay the price for government's mistake in our case.
Live your life each day as if it was your last.
I know. Hence my listed attribution for the quote. Weren't some weird /.'er who done said it, This came from a ancient staid and respectable Scientific Journal.
Which shows you CAN fools some of the people some of the time...
- Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.