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Microsoft Pockets Patent for Encouraging TV Viewing

theodp writes "Through its WebTV unit, Microsoft was awarded a patent Tuesday for a system and method for encouraging viewers to watch television programs, such as offering viewers frequent-flier miles for identifying the name of a sponsor or the color of an announcer's shirt. In other news, Microsoft took a District Court to task for failing to recognize the existence of prior art for the Eolas web plug-in patent, resulting in a $521 million judgment against the software giant."

266 comments

  1. Incentives?? by SIGALRM · · Score: 4, Insightful
    methods and apparatus for encouraging viewers to pay attention to television programs, commercials in particular, by offering viewers some incentive to watch
    The best incentive would be decent programming.

    One more reality show like "Wife Swapping" and I'm going to kill my TV...
    --
    Sigs cause cancer.
    1. Re:Incentives?? by geminidomino · · Score: 4, Informative

      One more reality show like "Wife Swapping" and I'm going to kill my TV..

      Wasn't that originally done by Dave Chapelle as a SPOOF on reality TV? Ugh...

      But don't kill your tv. Just cut your cable. If you kill your tv you lose your video games!

    2. Re:Incentives?? by gravyfaucet · · Score: 1

      to the contrary, the shows getting the highest ratings suck. (IMH*O) *more correct than humble

      --
      Yes! Evil rules! Good can suck it! Suck it, good!
    3. Re:Incentives?? by Hogwash+McFly · · Score: 2, Funny

      So you have Wife Swap now?

      Can't you guys come up with your own programme ideas instead of constantly using ours? :-P

      --
      Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
    4. Re:Incentives?? by shadowbearer · · Score: 4, Funny

      But don't kill your tv.

      Letting your tv die of terminal loneliness is much better. :)

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    5. Re:Incentives?? by Hogwash+McFly · · Score: 1

      But don't kill your tv. Just cut your cable

      I think the moral of the story here is 'Don't lose your TV, loose it!'

      Yes, this is a dig at people who can't tell the difference between the two (worryingly many).

      --
      Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
    6. Re:Incentives?? by ejaw5 · · Score: 1

      I know I've seen this done before, although not as often on TV as radio. But I do remember the local FOX affiliate at one time having a call-in contest which required a clue that was given during a particular program.

      It isn't much different than some radio contests. IE "Be the n-th caller when you hear the song SomeSongThatIsOnlyPlayedOnceToday between the hours a X and Y" That encourages people to listen to the radio all between X and Y hours.

      --

      $cat /dev/random > Sig
    7. Re:Incentives?? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wasn't that originally done by Dave Chapelle as a SPOOF on reality TV? Ugh...

      Sort of. Dave did a skit about a show called "Trading Spouses" and now Fox has created an actual show with the .

      I hope Dave Chappelle is getting some money out of it.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    8. Re:Incentives?? by cens0r · · Score: 1

      Actually CBS (or ABC, I can't remember) created the show calling it the Swap. Fox heard about it and rushed to put the identical show out a few weeks before.

      --
      Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
    9. Re:Incentives?? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      Can't you guys come up with your own programme ideas instead of constantly using ours? :-P

      Well, the original spin that we put on these shows is that the people in them have nice teeth.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    10. Re:Incentives?? by SquadBoy · · Score: 1

      Cartoon shows did this all the time when I was a kid. MS is insane.

      --

      Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
    11. Re:Incentives?? by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      CHannel 13 (UPN) San Diego has something called a couch potato code. Go to their website, enter the code, you get some sort of points.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    12. Re:Incentives?? by TheCyko1 · · Score: 1

      It's Fox, they've already proven themselves as morons. What'd you expect? Only Fox can see something that's obviously satire and think it's a good idea. And of course cancel good shows in exchange for crap.

      --
      This message was brought to you by the death of 30 brain cells.
    13. Re:Incentives?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd have to be American and sanitised to think that's funny. The jokes on you market-driven boy.

    14. Re:Incentives?? by todhsals · · Score: 1

      The scary part is that it probably is a good idea. Good for Fox to make $. Personally I don't get it but people seem to love this kind of trash.

    15. Re:Incentives?? by Bun · · Score: 1

      Could somebody explain the popularity of pro wrestling to me?

      --
      "Anyone that has ever gotten an idea based on any of my work and done something better with it-good for you."--J.Carmack
    16. Re:Incentives?? by Nate+B. · · Score: 1

      I heard within the past week that pro wrestling was created so that NASCAR fans have something to watch in the winter.

      Ducks, runs...

      I do in fact like watching NASCAR races myself along with F1 and the various motorcycle series carried on Speed Channel, but pro wrestling could drop off the face of the Earth and I'd not miss it one whit.

      --

      "Insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result."
    17. Re:Incentives?? by balloonpup · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's easy, it's a soap opera for men. They like the bad acting, silly power struggles and characters. The actual 'wrestling' is a small part of what makes it popular.

      --
      I sing the doggie electric!
    18. Re:Incentives?? by Anonymous+Writer · · Score: 1, Funny

      One more reality show like "Wife Swapping" and I'm going to kill my TV

      In Soviet Russia you don't kill your TV... your TV kills you!

    19. Re:Incentives?? by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      http://www.livejournal.com/users/thesparque/21116. html

      Chapelle's Law of Reality Television
      Chapelle's Law of Reality Television is as follows:

      If a person brings up as a joke any idea for a reality television show, it will be adopted and aired within approximately one year's time.

      Evidence: During the first season of Chapelle's Show on Comedy Central, a skit aired in which Chapelle parodies the popular television show "Trading Spaces" with a show called "Trading Spouses." Coming this summer on the Fox Network is a show called "Trading Spouses," modeled exactly after the Chapelle's Show skit.

      Science in Action: Chapelle's Law having been discovered, I will now attempt an experiment to prove it.

      You know what would be hilarious? If they did a show like The Bachelorette or something, except it was all women. And they could do it on HBO or Showtime or something so they could show all the good stuff.

      That would be so funny.

    20. Re:Incentives?? by ewhac · · Score: 1
      One more reality show like "Wife Swapping" and I'm going to kill my TV..

      Wasn't that originally done by Dave Chapelle as a SPOOF on reality TV? Ugh...

      Monty Python did it first.

      Schwab

    21. Re:Incentives?? by nmos · · Score: 1

      The best incentive would be decent programming.

      Lord knows you wouldn't have to worry about prior art :)

    22. Re:Incentives?? by satmech · · Score: 1

      he-he... Click-through Dumb! Patented?! Oh Wait, maybe 1-click Dumb. (?!) ahhh... Nevermind.

      If it passes, unsuscribe & don't buy.

    23. Re:Incentives?? by gcaseye6677 · · Score: 1

      I think this falls under the theory of never going broke by underestimating the stupidity of the American public. Then again, people watch stupid shit on TV all over the world.

    24. Re:Incentives?? by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      Well, if they ever made a reality tv show like the Real World skit they did on the Chapelle Show, thats one bit of reality tv I'd be willing to put up with.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    25. Re:Incentives?? by glitch23 · · Score: 1

      One more reality show like "Wife Swapping" and I'm going to kill my TV..

      What is wrong with it? It's just another way the media is trivializing the institution of marriage. Give it another 6 months to a year and we'll see gay marriage be the new topic of all these reality shows that deal with weddings.

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    26. Re:Incentives?? by solive1 · · Score: 1

      Yes... Chappelle's Show had a skit on one episode called "Trading Spouses." Ironically, a show with that exact name appears on some network now.

    27. Re:Incentives?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit, the show has been on the UK for a couple years.
      Well before the Chapelle show skit.
      Other countries have already shown it.

    28. Re:Incentives?? by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1

      Yes. Your video game controller goes into your TV. The cable is supposed to go into the cable modem. Get it right. :)

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    29. Re:Incentives?? by cornjones · · Score: 1

      because no american show has ever aired there, huh? and you make all your own movies too, no hollywood drivel in your neck of the woods.

    30. Re:Incentives?? by svallarian · · Score: 1

      >I hope Dave Chappelle is getting some money out of it.

      Well, if you watch the show....

      Like paul moody said, if you're black, don't get popular, or the white man will come take your show :)

      --
      I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."
    31. Re:Incentives?? by hazem · · Score: 1

      What is wrong with it? It's just another way the media is trivializing the institution of marriage.

      How dare you! Only Gays can trivialize and demean marriage by wanting to have it, just like *normal* people. Everything in the media sanctifies marriage.. only those homosexuals have the power to threaten the institution of marriage.

      They're probably in it with the aliens. And don't you forget it!

    32. Re:Incentives?? by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      i prefer a terminal impact at high velocity into the parking lot

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    33. Re:Incentives?? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      Negrodamus gets another one right.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    34. Re:Incentives?? by Hogwash+McFly · · Score: 1

      Mmmm yeah cause showing the original show is the same as taking a format and making your own version of it.

      --
      Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
    35. Re:Incentives?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a person brings up as a joke any idea for a reality television show, it will be adopted and aired within approximately one year's time.

      I'm still waiting for the real-world Battle Royale...

    36. Re:Incentives?? by Tassach · · Score: 1
      Could somebody explain the popularity of pro wrestling to me?
      Boobs. Pecs. Skin. Violence. Action. No heavy thinking required.
      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
  2. fpfpfp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    fp.

  3. So am I still allowed... by djtripp · · Score: 1

    to watch TV???? Or is watching subscriber based?

    --
    "This is you left and that's your left. This is your right and that's your right. You're gonna die!
  4. Prior art? by Teddy+Beartuzzi · · Score: 1

    Tits and ass have been encouraging viewing for years.

    1. Re:Prior art? by Squareball · · Score: 1

      Hence Baywatch

    2. Re:Prior art? by PapayaSF · · Score: 1

      I'm certain I've heard of contests on old TV shows that use this sort of incentive. Someone with a knowledge of TV history should be able to point to prior art.

      --
      Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
    3. Re:Prior art? by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Dialing-For-Dollars? It was on back in the 60's and 70's.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    4. Re:Prior art? by ZBM-2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What about contests? There have been plenty of TV show contests where you had to watch an episode,or even several,to find clues or code words or answer questions. Wouldn't that count?

      --
      ==== Warning:this poster contains subject matter that may be offensive. Flaming discretion is advised.
    5. Re:Prior art? by Tooxs · · Score: 1

      We used the word "computer" and they responded!

    6. Re:Prior art? by platypibri · · Score: 2, Informative

      Tech TV's(R.I.P.) Digital Dig contest has people watch for codes and then enter them on the web.I'm sure a dozen more will pop up in the thread. Looks like they got their head up a small narrow space at the patent office.

      --
      Yeah, I guess I'm funny like that.
    7. Re:Prior art? by ePhil_One · · Score: 1

      This incentive is as old as TV itself, and likely goes back to the first radio shows. The picture that I get is Wally (yes, of Dilbert fame) learning of a promotion in the company, $500 for every patent filed! then sitting around at writing down every idea he sees that is no currently a branded product, then appending "digitally" to everything...

      --
      You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
    8. Re:Prior art? by Antihero77 · · Score: 1

      Tits and ass have been encouraging viewing for years.

      and as soon as my patent (#121928431841329) for T&A passes thru the local patent office, we are having the biggest T&A party ever at my house. Even Hugh Hefner will be there.

      Be there or be square.

      --
      and now Tom with the weather...
  5. Huh? by Tsali · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We actually need to encourage people to sit around and watch television? Come on....

    Sedentary life is its own reward.

    --
    This space for rent.
    1. Re:Huh? by zurab · · Score: 2, Funny
      We actually need to encourage people to sit around and watch television? Come on....

      I was wondering myself: Microsoft patents IE pop-ups on TV - does this count as "progress of science" or "useful arts?" Can someone patent a pop-up blocker for TV too? Ohhh, wait a minute, I'll be back...
  6. Come on by pvt_medic · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ITs getting to a point that Microsoft is going to have a patent on everything. THis isnt a groundbreaking idea or concept, there needs to be reforms in how patents are given out. What next we going to see someone patent the idea of having an input device onto a computer?

    --
    30% Troll, 50% Underrated, 10% Interesting
    Score:5, Troll
    1. Re:Come on by Jane_Dozey · · Score: 1

      Fine the patent office for every patent found to be a load of c**p. That way they'd start thinking twice about the more dodgy looking candidates.

      --
      Silly rabbit
    2. Re:Come on by Metallic+Matty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "ITs getting to a point that Microsoft is going to have a patent on everything."

      You think Microsoft has a lot of patents? Check out IBM.

    3. Re:Come on by bkruiser · · Score: 1

      Microsoft patents Pavlov

    4. Re:Come on by MP3Chuck · · Score: 1

      But are IBM's patents strange, and nearly frivolous?

    5. Re:Come on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations! Your brainwashing is almost complete. You missed the dozens of articles about Apple's, IBM's, and Amazon's bullshit patents and entirely focus on the Microsoft ones. You also seem to be oblivous to the most recent article (along with dozens of others) where Microsoft is on the receiving end of a patent lawsuit. Microsoft is know different than most tech companies nowadays. They are patenting anything more out of defensiveness. I even think that until Microsoft starts enforcing these patents that this may just be there way of defending against future lawsuits. When in Rome...

      Oh wait - I'm sorry - this is slashdot. There is no evil but Microsoft. Apple is great. IBM is better. Long live anybody but Microsoft.

    6. Re:Come on by RazzleFrog · · Score: 1

      I guess that is a matter of opinion. Here is their software patents. You be the judge.

    7. Re:Come on by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 1
      Whoa...is that page trying to tell me that IBM only has four software patents? I would be extremely surprised to discover that Microsoft doesn't have many more than that. Then again, I'm extremely surprised to discover IBM has doesn't have many more than that.

      Well, there's also this section on e-business and networking patents: http://www.ibm.com/ibm/licensing/patents/network.s html

    8. Re:Come on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From their site:

      "IBM has about 23,000 active U.S. patents with more being added every week in many areas of interest to IBM customers.
      ---------
      In 2003, IBM received 3,415 U.S. patents from the USPTO. This is the eleventh consecutive year that IBM has received more U.S. patents than any other company in the world."

    9. Re:Come on by SirTalon42 · · Score: 1

      Fine the person that hands out the patent, not the office. The office would then just have to have a bigger pockets next year. Or it would go so far in debt that it would have to shut down forever...

    10. Re:Come on by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what I find so odd--out of 23,000 patents, only a handful are for software?

    11. Re:Come on by Tassach · · Score: 1

      Fines, nah. I vote for public flogging.

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
  7. Re:fp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i fail it hard.

  8. I Don't Know ABout You by mboverload · · Score: 0, Insightful

    But this sounds like a great idea. When I watch comercials my brain just glazes over but with this it is active mental stimulation. Watch a commercial and get some miles? Pointless but its a REWARD, and everyone loves rewards no matter how useless or stupid they are.

  9. I suppose to tred on the new MS patent... by rusty0101 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    ... I could offer to mod up responsed to people who come up with the most creative responses to AC's who begin their post's with "You're an idiot..." (or variations on the theme.)

    So I shant...

    -Rusty

    --
    You never know...
    1. Re:I suppose to tred on the new MS patent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an idiot...

      Oh. :)

    2. Re:I suppose to tred on the new MS patent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an idiot. It's "tread," not "tred."

    3. Re:I suppose to tred on the new MS patent... by rusty0101 · · Score: 1

      Well, at least the AC's figured out it is topical and funny.

      Topical, relavent to the topic at hand. In this case the fact that it was discussion of a variation of the patent in question, which was how to increase viewers, by rewarding someone who noticed a side effect.

      Funny, it takes a dig at AC's who are almost recognizable by the way they begin their posts.

      But then, I'm not a moderator today, nor was I yesterday. Perhaps the general IQ level of the Moderators yesterday is so high that the topic, or humor just escaped them.

      Now this post on the other hand is not on topic, but may be recognized by today's moderators as humorous. (I should be so lucky...)

      -Rusty

      --
      You never know...
  10. Two words by Gleenie · · Score: 1

    OMG!

    What the hell next...?

    --
    -- Your mother uses Emacs.
    1. Re:Two words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depending on how you count "OMG", that's either five or eight words. Seven or ten if you count "two words" in the title. Happy to help.

    2. Re:Two words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1, owned.

    3. Re:Two words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OMG!

      What the hell next...?


      People who can count?

    4. Re:Two words by ewhac · · Score: 1

      In the parent poster's signature:

      +++
      OK
      ATH
      NO CARRIER

      You knew that's patented, too, right? Hayes got a patent for the trick of using [pause]+++[pause] of getting a modem's attention.

      Schwab

    5. Re:Two words by Gleenie · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but at least that was farily clever and innovative at the time...

      --
      -- Your mother uses Emacs.
  11. Incentives to watch TV? by L.+VeGas · · Score: 2, Funny

    We don't need no stinking incentives!

    ----
    Average Bored Teenager

  12. So basically... by Izago909 · · Score: 5, Funny

    They are trying to play both sides of the field. To me, Microsoft is like watching the homeless guy down the street have an argument with himself. Very entertaining, but it's advisable to keep your distance.

    1. Re:So basically... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you could also say that Microsoft is sick of being the one constantly being sued and has decided to swing back or at least put themselves in a position to block the next swing. Find me one case where Microsoft is suing over a patent they hold. I can find at least 3 or 4 going the other way. To me until Microsoft makes a move we can't condemn them (well, of course, on slashdot we can and will but hell - noone ever said slashdotters were fair).

    2. Re:So basically... by Izago909 · · Score: 1

      Well you could also say that Microsoft is sick of being the one constantly being sued and has decided to swing back or at least put themselves in a position to block the next swing. Find me one case where Microsoft is suing over a patent they hold.

      And when a hostile country starts massing troops right across the border it's ok to to not make any plans until the first shot? MS isn't spending all this time and money to patent the world just for shits and giggles. Don't forget, crazy.... not stupid. They will pull their guns if there is enough to lose, or win.

    3. Re:So basically... by Erik+Hollensbe · · Score: 1

      Plus, they get free advertising on slashdot every time they do it.

      What a great deal!

    4. Re:So basically... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah.. I will remember this OP years from now, as the first hard evidence we're living in Bizarro's world. This whole thing is ... "scary" doesn't even come close to describing the complex monstrosity of what I'm experiencing.

      Trying to wrap my humble braincells around the deeper analysis of this ... I actually can't get into my head how this can be for real. When I try to survey the underlying cultural fabric, the societal landscape in which this really occurs:

      Terra incognita.

      Anyone see those ominous-looking nature pictures of giant icebergs in a clear ocean? The sun making the ice above water sparkling whiteness, and the enormous mass vanishing into the deep? That's my mental image.

      A governmental body doing ..., the world's most influential corporation pursuing and recieving ..., the language detailing ..., discussing - at length - methods of encouragement, incentives for paying attention "[to] commercials in particular" ... The work and thought gone into this, the forms filled out, the meetings, the capital, the ...

      How the hell did we get here? Wh... Goddamn, I'm 30 years old and what this implies/forecasts/underscores, profoundly frightens me. This kind of thing shouldn't be fucking real.

      An author I admire, talking about the "sign 'o the times", said: "There are no maps for these territories." Hearing it, I thought it sounded ominous and cool - but essentially not saying much. He once also declared "The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed."

      I feel like I just got served a big poisonous slice of it.. /jan

    5. Re:So basically... by EtherAlchemist · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering how much of this latest "patent it all, quick!" spree they're on was actually the idea of some "genius" in marketing seeking a way to gain future residual income. No company, no matter how much they are worth or have in the bank, is just going to stop finding sources of revenue. MS can say these rounds of patent filings are all related to their next OS (and might be, who cares) but I think it goes beyond that.

      BTW, the homeless guy down the block here also sings and dances in addition to talking to himself. "15 cent, gonna buy me some dinner! 15 cent, gonna buy me some dinnER! God bless ya AND ya famlay! 15 cent..."

      --
      R(k)
  13. The good old days by filtur · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I remember when good tv shows used to be the incentive to watch tv.

    1. Re:The good old days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stations been doing this for at least 10 years in Australia, although rather than frequent flier points, they award traditional prizes.

      The questions in Australia are generally of the form "what did person X say to person Y", and require calling a $1/minute phone number to register your answer.

  14. Try this! by T-Kir · · Score: 3, Funny

    He he, it's about time they try and patent 'Dodgy Business Practices' and 'Being a Monopoly'...

    At least they'll be part of the prior art on those points. Plus, If they did ever patent those, then they could sue any other company that misbehaves (almost like an immoral moral guardian).

    --
    Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
    1. Re:Try this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, they'd be their own grandpa?

    2. Re:Try this! by rebel47 · · Score: 1

      As much as that may be true, the fault doesn't lay with Microsoft, it's the USPTO and the ludicrous US patent system. Next thing you know they will be patenting a method for converting air (composed primarily of oxygen) to carbon dioxide. You and I know this process as breathing but if it's not patented don't be surprised if some corporation comes up with a novel way of describing it the USPTO will grant them a patent.

      --
      One day I woke up and saw all my rights had disappeared, that's the day I knew the terrorists had won.
  15. Secret Message: by Bingo+Foo · · Score: 4, Informative
    Lameness filter, here I come:

    B-E S-U-R-E T-O D-R-I-N-K Y-O-U-R O-V-A-L-T-I-N-E

    (please tell me someone get the reference.)

    Come on, this kind of encouragement has been going on for DECADES.

    --
    taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
    1. Re:Secret Message: by kfg · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes, it does indeed seem that MS has been granted a patent on the Captain Midnight secret decoder ring.

      KFG

    2. Re:Secret Message: by ip_fired · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm not sure where you might have seen that, but it was in my Discrete Math book in the section about RSA encryption. :)

      --
      Don't count your messages before they ACK.
    3. Re:Secret Message: by n9uxu8 · · Score: 1

      Little Orphan Annie would be so proud... Dave

    4. Re:Secret Message: by darth_MALL · · Score: 1

      You'll shoot your eye out, kid! A Christmas Story :)

    5. Re:Secret Message: by lordkimbot · · Score: 1

      I 'DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!"

      Hehe

      --
      sig mind freed
    6. Re:Secret Message: by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Come on, this kind of encouragement has been going on for DECADES.

      RTFP. No, just skimming the Abstract isn't sufficient.

      The patent describes a fairly specific method of encouraging and measuring a viewer's attention to detail. It's not nearly as insidious as the impression one might get from reading nothing but a one-sentence summary of the patent.

      This happens with every story about patents on Slashdor. Half the posts are "surely product X constitutes prior art, it's different in concept and implementation but a ten-word summary of it would be mostly the same", and the other half are jokes about patenting the practice of filing junk patents. And both halves are certain they have the answer for reforming the Patent OFfice, which is obviously broken and needs to be replaced because some guy on a web message board, with no formal experience in patent law, doesn't understand it.

      I give up. I'm heading over to my Preferences page to filter out whatever category patent stories end up in.

    7. Re:Secret Message: by WNight · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And inevitably, some schmuck comes along and points out a fairly trivial point that invalidates someone's joke of "Foo, but ... ON A COMPUTER", makes an anti-anti-patent rant, as if the system must not be broken just because if you look through all seventeen pages of lawyerese there's a single new idea.

      I hope you aren't gunning for an 'insightful' mod.

      It doesn't take a patent lawyer to judge the worthiness of the system. (There's a perfect example of attempting to put a fox in charge of the henhouse.) It only takes someone who can see that the patent office sees nothing wrong with the single-click patent (or any patent on a result for that matter) or with RAMBUS's submarine tactics. Both of these are obvious innovation stifling patents, yet the PTO's comment is that it's not their job to validate patents... !?!

      So, because they've got some budget trouble, they issue government-mandated monopolies to people on whole areas of technology, making it the responsibility of everyone else to police the system. That's like me saying I can't afford to do my job and charging you, at random, for the results of fixing my lack of work.

      But yeah, I don't have a degree in patent law so obviously I can't see how patents are getting broader and broader, until they barely mention any specific technology, and are being used to blackmail whole industries.

    8. Re:Secret Message: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On a computer and IN JAPAN!

    9. Re:Secret Message: by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2, Informative

      RTFP. No, just skimming the Abstract isn't sufficient.

      The patent describes a fairly specific method of encouraging and measuring a viewer's attention to detail. It's not nearly as insidious as the impression one might get from reading nothing but a one-sentence summary of the patent.


      I suggest *you* RTFP. I was all set to fire off a "you need to read the *claims*, not the *abstract* to determine what a patent covers post, but then I read the claims. It really is a ridiculous patent.

      You are correct that not reading the claims is a common problem; it is not an issue on this patent story.

    10. Re:Secret Message: by B.Hoover · · Score: 1, Funny

      Be sure to drink your Ovaltine? A crummy commercial?? Son of a BITCH!

    11. Re:Secret Message: by bkruiser · · Score: 1

      So a minor detail in an idea constitues originality? What about a plane with square wings or a dog house made from tape and crackerjacks? Original but definately not worthy of a patent. There is nothing substantive in the design or in function. Design patents not awarded for humor are a reflection of comerciality and functional patents should be shown to be truly and completely original.

    12. Re:Secret Message: by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 1
      It doesn't take a patent lawyer to judge the worthiness of the system.
      You're right, it doesn't. It does, however, take somebody who knows more about patents than what they read in Slashdot comments.
      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    13. Re:Secret Message: by darnok · · Score: 1

      > they issue government-mandated monopolies to
      > people on whole areas of technology, making it the
      > responsibility of everyone else to police the
      > system

      It's a lot worse than that.

      Consider that the stupid US government is coercing other stupid governments around the world, including my own, into adopting US laws covering intellectual property. The result is that the US patent office is essentially being given powers applicable to much of Europe and elsewhere.

      In fact, granting ridiculous patents to US companies is quite a viable way of shoring up the US economy in the future; it must be nice to know that US companies can ensure a flow of patent licence cash into the US whenever they see fit to do so. Fixing the US patent system could ultimately cost US citizens a lot of money

      It's a good thing my stupid country's patent office allowed a guy to patent *the wheel* only a few years ago; at least I know I can patent everyone out of existence courtesy of entrenched stupidity.

    14. Re:Secret Message: by AaronGTurner · · Score: 2, Informative

      Christmas Story - the code found using the decoder pen!

    15. Re:Secret Message: by jonnystiph · · Score: 1

      I give up. I'm heading over to my Preferences page to filter out whatever category patent stories end up in.

      Incredible. The voice of logic final finds its way on to slashdot. Best grab your umbrella's for that rain of frogs soon to follow.

      --

      If we don't make light of everything, we are just stumbling in the dark - Blank

    16. Re:Secret Message: by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      Darnok, I'm in Europe too, and let me tell you I'm looking forward to software patents.

      You're probably working for some European software outfit or IT department, if you're worried about this, so let me ask you:

      - How many people in your company are paid to _research_ new algoritms? How many of them are _mathematicians_. (And not maths guys who learned VB and are coding crappy web sites. Mathematicians hired as exactly that.)

      Chances are: zero out of zero. Just like in every company I've worked for.

      - How many usability experts does your company employ? When was the last time they actually did any _research_?

      Let me tell you that only at the present job we even have a usability expert at all. That is, a programmer who's read a couple of usability books, and she's just regurgitating what she's read. Never actually did any research, probably because the boss would never pay for that.

      - When was the last time your company actually had a research project? _Any_ research project. No, honestly. Did you guys _ever_ try discovering anything, as opposed to copy-and-pasting other people's work? (Even if from books, it's still copy-and-pasting someone else's algorithms and "patterns". No offense intended, that's what my job involves too.)

      Let me tell you, here we _almost_ had one, but even that was conditioned on the German government's being willing to subsidize it. When they weren't, the boss simply nuked the project and dismantled the team.

      Etc.

      The funny thing is that you even say:

      "In fact, granting ridiculous patents to US companies is quite a viable way of shoring up the US economy in the future; it must be nice to know that US companies can ensure a flow of patent licence cash into the US whenever they see fit to do so. Fixing the US patent system could ultimately cost US citizens a lot of money"

      But you fail to see that you've just illustrated why lack of patents was a problem for Europe. Those guys in the US researched, while we just sat around and copied each other's code.

      It's not that Europe doesn't have intelligent or capable people. I'm sure that per thousand people we have exactly as many smart people as the US does. (And viceversa.)

      Europe has a lot of research and _patents_ for pharmaceuticals, cars, electronics, etc. But it has virtually no software research whatsoever. Did you ever wonder: why? Because without patents here the "smart" choice was to not bother paying for any software research.

      That's the problem with lack of patents. The viability of any research becomes measured in "how much profit we can make out of this in 1 month, after which everyone else copies our idea?" Which usually means it's not worth even trying.

      And the sooner this aberrant situation gets buried, the more cheerfully I'll dance on its grave.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    17. Re:Secret Message: by pommiekiwifruit · · Score: 1
      So you are looking forward to the 30,000 pending software patents in europe being legalised? That means you are looking forward to reading 30,000 patent documents to see which ones your project currently infringes. Why don't you start now? Don't rely on them being titled or indexed sensibly either. You are quite likely to be infringing several of them already. That means you owe money to some random companies. It's not like patents on drugs; most programs have more than one algorithm or function point in them.

      There are job ads for mathematicians in financial companies in the City of London. I guess they just don't publish the source code to their stock analysis programs on the internet.

    18. Re:Secret Message: by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      There are job ads for mathematicians in financial companies in the City of London. I guess they just don't publish the source code to their stock analysis programs on the internet.

      Which is exactly the other point that patents were supposed to solve: encouraging people to _publish_ their research. The deal is "ok, you get 20 years monopoly on this idea, but after that _everyone_ gets to use it for free."

      Whereas what happened in most programming outfits instead? _If_ anyone actually had a stroke of genius and invented something revolutionary (in spite of receiving exactly zero funding or time for that), it's buried 6 ft under in closed-source code, behind a wall of NDAs.

      Any brilliant ideas that may have been coded in, say, 1984, would have been public domain by now, if they were patented. As it is, they're probably indented 6 ft under and covered with dirt, in some COBOL program that noone even understands any more. Or in some huge PDP-11 assembly program that noone can even read any more.

      And even if the original author wanted to divulge the secret after all these years, or reimplement it somewhere else, chances are they'd get their pants sued off for NDA breach by the original company.

      Which is another point why I'm looking forward to software patents. I wish people would give me a break with the stupid NDAs and non-compete clauses already. If it's that great an idea, go patent it, don't make me sign a stupidity that forbids me from even selling soap for two years after I quit the job.

      (Yes, one non-compete and non-disclosure contract someone wanted me to sign, actually forbade me from ever competing not only with that company, but also with their partners, and their partners' partners, and everyone who every came in contact with those. Taken literally, I probably would have even been forbidden from blogging because that would be competing with some clients' client's news site or newspaper.)

      And for what? Especially during the dot-com fraud noone actually had a new idea. Most had the same idiotic "ooh, we'll make a site with bright colours, lots of flash, and 1 MB rollover graphics per page, and no business plan" idea. And everyone thought they surely were the first one to ever think of that... even those who "had that idea" after reading about the inflated IPO of some company who already tried that business plan. And then went bust.

      Yet they made you sign tome sized NDAs and non-compete contracts, to protect that preciousss idea. Gimme a break.

      Let them go to the patent office instead. In 99% of the cases they'll just get told that someone patented that idea already, or just got overturned. (Plenty of prior art of flashy web sites that failed.) And if the remaining 1% are of any actual use, well, at least they'll be in the public domain after 20 years.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    19. Re:Secret Message: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was the Little Orphan Annie secret message at the end of every broadcast. It could only be deciphered by a decoder ring that you got by sending in umpteen Ovaltine labels.

    20. Re:Secret Message: by pommiekiwifruit · · Score: 1

      Let them go to the patent office instead. In 99% of the cases they'll just get told that someone patented that idea already, or just got overturned. (Plenty of prior art of flashy web sites that failed.)

      If people could not patent obvious ideas that had already been implemented by other people they would be less of a problem. In this world though, the patent office would just give them all those patents, as the USPTO has, and give a horde of lawyers an excuse to sue you at any time. Even with specific compression algorithms they give the patent for the same algorithm to multiple people (e.g. Unisys and IBM for LZW) because they don't check them.

      Being a coder I see the threat of being sued for bogus patents (on "ones and zeros", or using RAM to hold the contents of a video screen, or using the internet, etc.) as being worse that the hypothetical payoff for devising something worth patenting.

      Anyway, which good ideas from 1984 have you gleaned from US patent applications? And how do they compare with e.g. academic journals?

    21. Re:Secret Message: by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      "If people could not patent obvious ideas that had already been implemented by other people they would be less of a problem. In this world though, the patent office would just give them all those patents, as the USPTO has, and give a horde of lawyers an excuse to sue you at any time. Even with specific compression algorithms they give the patent for the same algorithm to multiple people (e.g. Unisys and IBM for LZW) because they don't check them."

      Look, I'm not saying that the patents process is perfect. God knows there are tons of ludicrious patents, or yes, duplicate patents, and 99% of those don't even have anything to do with software.

      But the solution IMHO is to fix it, not to throw it all away just because it's not 100% perfect. Cars aren't 100% perfect either, yet you probably still use one. Computers aren't anywhere _near_ perfect, but you still use them. Software, heck, honestly speaking after a day with WebSphere... it's mostly a fscking disaster, but people still use it.

      Why? Because the benefits outweigh the problems.

      Same with patents. There's a ton of research which wouldn't happen without patents. Go look up the costs to develop and test a new drug sometime. Without patents, the whole pharmaceuticals industry would probably be 50 years back in time.

      "Being a coder I see the threat of being sued for bogus patents (on "ones and zeros", or using RAM to hold the contents of a video screen, or using the internet, etc.) as being worse that the hypothetical payoff for devising something worth patenting."

      Here's a novel idea for you: so research and have some patents of your own. That's another neat side-effect of patents: everyone tries to have their own portfolio of nukes. Which means: more incentive to research.

      You know what? I'll be damned if that doesn't sound _good_ to me.

      And the much bemoaned "stopping progress" effects mostly only exist in /. and EFF whining. Real world is a bit more relaxed. Precisely because everyone wants some of someone else's patents, there are a ton of cross-licensing deals. (Basically, I'll give you mine if you give me yours.)

      E.g., you probably like your new graphics card, whatever it may be. ATI, NVidia, Matrox, whatever. Well, whatever it may be, it contains technology licensed from the competition. DirectX texture compression is licensed from S3, for example.

      You didn't see patents slowing those down, did you?

      E.g., a lot of the technology in your CPU, motherboard, etc, whatever brand it may be, is licensed from someone else. If you have a TFT display, almost everything in those is patented too. Didn't seem to stop progress in those areas, did it?

      Even with software, for example the price charged by Unisys for LZW was mostly symbolic. Definitely cheaper than trying to _invent_ your own compression algorithm. (Try it.) _And_ it had the neat side-effect that it stimulated people to research other formats: e.g., PNG.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    22. Re:Secret Message: by pommiekiwifruit · · Score: 1
      Here's a novel idea for you: so research and have some patents of your own. That's another neat side-effect of patents: everyone tries to have their own portfolio of nukes. Which means: more incentive to research.

      So you are in favour of Iran developing nuclear weapons, to balance the US? That way craziness lies. If they tried using one weapon, on say US troops in the area, they would find the US has considerably more and with better range. Patents are directional weapons. If you have one patent, it is pointed at some random people, unlikely to be the same people as the ones who have patents pointed at you. Unless you are microsoft or ibm, in which case you have so many that they point in all directions.

      The reason patents aren't slowing most software down is that most software is not open source. Most commercial software probably does infringe on patents (in the US) but people just ignore that, like they ignore other laws that are rarely enforced. I certainly don't remember at any company I have there being a few months set aside for searching through all the banned techniques that are currrently in force (and at final release to check all the techniques that have subsequently been banned, and afterwards etc.), and we did sell software to the US.

      It certainly has slowed down open-source software, as RMS can give you examples (one example: they developed a compression algorithm to replace usage of LSW, and as they were about to publish the software, the patent department announced that someone else had claimed a patent on that technique).

      I have independantly created several (fairly poor quality but fast and memory efficient) compression methods, and used them in commercial software. If I had looked into the patent database (spending more time on that than on actually working) no doubt I would have found that several people had already claimed each method several times, and it would not matter that I developed this independantly.

      Already more money is spent on marketing a product than on developing it. I don't think that spending more money on patent lawyers than on programmers is an efficient way to run an economy, or will inspire innovation.

      And of course cross-licensing agreements don't work with lawyer companies anyway, since they don't actually make anything.

      I don't use a car myself but that is fairly unimportant, as I do use other vehicles.

    23. Re:Secret Message: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of us get it. My first experience with a GUI came when Winky Dink taught me to make pictures by drawing on TV screens with a crayon. (prior art for Windows?)

  16. Broadcast? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Looking at the claims they use the word "broadcast", could it be argued that if a signal over a cable system or satellite isn't a broadcast signal? If so that would definitly limit it to I think ABC,NBC,CBS,FOX,PBS.

  17. Prior Art by n6kuy · · Score: 1

    Anyone remember "Dialing for Dollars"?

    --
    If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
    1. Re:Prior Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get with the times. It should be VOIP for Google shares. w00t! Prior Art! :-P

    2. Re:Prior Art by Flexagon · · Score: 1

      Anyone remember "Dialing for Dollars"?

      Exactly! This is decades-old prior art. Perhaps older are radio shows that used the same methods.

    3. Re:Prior Art by wild_berry · · Score: 1

      And Bill discusses this in his The Road Ahead book. I think that makes the idea already 'in the wild' so it's not patentable.

      In the words of someone I met whose father is a UK patent approver: you don't progress as a patent technicain by turning down patents. Particularly those of big, rich corporations (which suggests why and how the patent system and its economy need changing).

      Take care.
      love K3n.

    4. Re:Prior Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the novel feature here is an email response

  18. Of course not! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why take the risk of being original when there is guaranteed money in ripping off?

  19. I call shenanigans! by DeepHurtn! · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When was TV anything else besides a barren wasteland of corporate-enforced mediocrity?

    1. Re:I call shenanigans! by nyrk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When PBS used to show real science shows NOVA, etc.

    2. Re:I call shenanigans! by ISPpfy · · Score: 1

      M*A*S*H

      The Cosby Show (1st version) when the kids were still young enough to be entertaining instead of annoying.

    3. Re:I call shenanigans! by filtur · · Score: 1

      The A-Team, Nuff said :)

    4. Re:I call shenanigans! by DeepHurtn! · · Score: 1

      Yes, there have been individual examples of decent shows, and there still are. But quality TV has always been the exception that proves the rule -- the vast majority of it is and always has been lowest-common-denominator pap.

    5. Re:I call shenanigans! by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

      When Star Trek:TOS was still going.

      It's been a long, long time since Roddenberry tweaked the public mores...

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    6. Re:I call shenanigans! by TheDarkener · · Score: 1

      The Cosby Show (1st version) when the kids were still young enough to be entertaining instead of annoying.

      JELLO PUDDIN' POPS!!!

      Sorry, I had to...

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    7. Re:I call shenanigans! by vsprintf · · Score: 1

      When PBS used to show real science shows NOVA, etc.

      Billllions and billllions and billllions . . . [/Sagan] (Fondly remembered.)

    8. Re:I call shenanigans! by zogger · · Score: 1

      One Step Beyond, Outer Limits, Kraft Mystery Theater, the Twilight Zone, Alfred Hitchcock, TOS (natch), The Prisoner(double natch)...

      and on the funny mindless drivel side, amos n andy, lil rascals, abbot and costello, laurel and hardy, the honeymooners, three stooges, candid camera....

      Some TV is funny now, but it's all cartoons near as I can see. The only alternative to cartoons "real" comedy I have seen that I appreciate are both of the Drew Carey shows (are they still even on?)

    9. Re:I call shenanigans! by vsprintf · · Score: 1

      When was TV anything else besides a barren wasteland of corporate-enforced mediocrity?

      There was a show called The Prisoner a long time ago. It was British in origin but became very popular in the US. I couldn't do it justice by trying to explain it, but it was definitely different. The fact that I can still remember it raises it above mediocrity. :)

    10. Re:I call shenanigans! by DeepHurtn! · · Score: 1

      I've seen some (not all) of The Prisoner, and yeah, that is a very good show -- but shows like that are very rare compared to the tidal wave of crud that makes up the bulk of TV broadcasts.

    11. Re:I call shenanigans! by vsprintf · · Score: 1

      I agree with that. I think the point is that like finding real gems in the real world, finding gems on TV is going to require a long search in that barren wasteland. By definition, most TV shows will be mediocre pap. Hopefully, there will still be the occasional show that does something new and captures our interest. I thought Junk Yard Wars was really interesting when it started, then they had to keep stretching and stretching it until it was pap.

    12. Re: I call shenanigans! by gidds · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It still is. Depending where you live, of course...

      --

      Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    13. Re:I call shenanigans! by SirTalon42 · · Score: 1

      w00t! Family Guy!

    14. Re: I call shenanigans! by Ben+Hutchings · · Score: 1

      BBC channels 1-3 seem to match the grandparent's description now, though I have to admit I hardly bother to see what's on TV any more.

  20. This Just In! by LabRat007 · · Score: 0

    Microsoft has been issued a patent covering the act of patenting something.

    But seriously folks, will the madness never end?

    --
    "Capital punishment makes the state into a murderer. Imprisonment makes the state into a gay dungeon-master"
  21. Hasnt Radio Been doing this... by MrFlannel · · Score: 1

    ... for a while now? Sign up, listen for "passwords", turn in for points, redeem for prizes, yadda yadda yadda? Or does that not count because its not the television?

    --
    Clones are people two.
    1. Re:Hasnt Radio Been doing this... by Jane_Dozey · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure kid's TV stations have been doing this for a very long time. Aswell as my local radio station ("The first person to call in when you hear this song wins the prize...").

      --
      Silly rabbit
  22. Philip K DIck did it best by DrSkwid · · Score: 2, Informative


    From the bedroom Iran's voice came. "I can't stand TV before breakfast."

    "Dial 888," Rick said as the set warmed. "The desire to watch TV, no matter what's on it."

    "I don't feel like dialing anything at all now," Iran said.

    "Then dial 3," he said.

    "I can't dial a setting that stimulates my cerebral cortex into wanting to dial! If I don't want to dial, I don't want to dial that most of all, because then I will want to dial, and wanting to dial is right now the most alien drive I can imagine; I just want to sit here on the bed and stare at the floor."

    Her voice had become sharp with overtones of bleakness as her soul congealed and she ceased to move, as the instinctive, omnipresent film of great weight, of an almost absolute inertia, settled over her."

    Philip K. Dick - Do androids dream of electric sheep ?

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    1. Re:Philip K DIck did it best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now all we need is a Wilbur Mercer.

      Oh, wait maybe we already do.... and he goes by cowboyneal....

    2. Re:Philip K DIck did it best by Stokey · · Score: 1

      No, I think Robert Rankin did it best (actually, in more comedic style) with the Armageddon the Musical trilogy. A system of government based on the fact that people are provided with all their needs by sitting and watching Dalai Dan the xxxth re-incarnation of the Lama doing his thing on TV. Of course, it all gets super-surreal with Barry the Time Travelling Sprout (props to the Slashdotter with that nick) and Elvis making appearances. In some way, it's more scary to see the ideas of the twisted Mr Rankin coming to something of a reality...

      --
      Natsu gusa-ya, Tsuwamono domo-ga, Yume no ato
  23. The /. MS Icon... by Donoho · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    seems uncannily appropriate.

  24. TV outright sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I killed mine a couple of years ago. I have noticed effects on my social life. People will say something that is just slightly out-of-place, such as "can you hear me now?" and everyone else will start laughing for no apparent reason.

    After it is explained to me, I still don't find it funny, however. More sheeplike than anything.

    Anyway, just be prepared for the social ramifications....

    1. Re:TV outright sucks by SaDan · · Score: 1

      Yeah... TV is definately taking up less and less of my time these days. Maybe half an hour a day on average.

      Reality shows really need to go.

    2. Re:TV outright sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, I've cut it out completely over the last 4 years... no cable, to local tv - nothing. It's the best thing I've ever done. In the last 4 years I've watched 0hrs of tv - not exagerating... I do come accross it when visiting other people at their homes...

      overall, I've probably watched less than 5 hours of tv over the last 4 years.

      It does kind of make you a bit of an odd ball to the sheep though. It does make me feel a bit out of place sometimes, but I'm a weirdo so I get a kick out of that.

    3. Re:TV outright sucks by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "I killed mine a couple of years ago. I have noticed effects on my social life."

      Kinda funny, iddn't it? Watching too much TV == bad, a lot of the content is pretty insulting to the intelligence. Not watching TV == bad, a few things are pretty darned good, but they're being missed.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    4. Re:TV outright sucks by Drooling+Iguana · · Score: 1

      In the last 4 years I've watched 0hrs of tv - not exagerating...

      overall, I've probably watched less than 5 hours of tv over the last 4 years.


      Does not compute.

      --
      ... I'm addicted to placebos
  25. Where's the Beef? by eamacnaghten · · Score: 0
    This is ridiculous. Where is the beef in this? What exactly is the invention? It is like patenting the concept of advertising - or the concept of discounts ot bonuses. These are not inventions.

    The USPO seem to be in the process of removing the freedoms of the US citizen that the constitution is designed to protect! I hope this silly patent frenzy is not exported any more to here in Europe, I hope the EU parliament will chuck out the concept of software/method patents (again).

    --

    Web Sig: Eddy Currents

  26. TV for fools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This time the bullet cold rocked ya
    A yellow ribbon instead of a swastika
    Nothin' proper about ya propaganda
    Fools follow rules when the set commands ya
    Said it was blue
    When ya blood was read
    That's how ya got a bullet blasted through ya head

    Blasted through ya head
    Blasted through ya head

  27. Re:Incentives??-Sorry bad tag last time by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

    Wasn't that originally done by Dave Chapelle as a SPOOF on reality TV? Ugh...

    Sort of. Dave did a skit about a show called "Trading Spouses" and now Fox has created an actual show with the same title.

    I hope Dave Chappelle is getting some money out of it.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  28. what will the mass media think? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

    doesn't mass media do this with programs to encourage vewing? it would be interesting to find out how well they would be willing to pay microsoft a royalty for having a contest to watch a certain program for the hidden clue and then call the 900 number with the answer to the secret question. The 99th caler will wind a bycicle. I remeber stuff like this from way back in the 70's (due to my age) I also remeber getting forms and having to fill with stuff like this in order to enter a contest through the mail.

    Maybe the inclusion of the internet is the big difference? Sometime you just have to wonder w ho was smoking what and why they won't share.

  29. Monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The joys of being a Monopoly!

  30. bad dog by Alien+Being · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    They do this SHIT for the same reason a dog licks his balls. What we need is for someone to hit Bill Gates with a rolled-up newspaper.

    1. Re:bad dog by njfuzzy · · Score: 1

      For those of you not yet getting this, that's:
      Because They Can.

      --
      My Photography - http://ian-x.com
      The Deathlings (comic) - http://thedeathlings.com
    2. Re:bad dog by poohsuntzu · · Score: 1

      Funny, I could have sworn it was because they enjoyed the sensation of that contact, not just for the hell of it.

      --
      "We're breaking out the ramen noodles. . . "
      "Really? Is it someone's birthday?"
  31. Local News... by changa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I thought local shows have been doing this for years with contests?

    "Just write down the the name of the visitor in today's show and send a postcard to Win a CAR P.O. blah blah..."

    I seem to remember these as far back as the 80's.

    That and local news pulling similar tricks to get you to watch.

    1. Re:Local News... by AnswerIs42 · · Score: 1
      That and local news pulling similar tricks to get you to watch.

      Yea.. "Will this can of soda KILL YOU?? Watch at 11 to learn more!" They always make the stories sound like they are life meaning to everyone.. and when you finally see the story..

      It is about some boy scout who was cutting the can for a project and the sharp edge cut his pinkey.

      A few stories like that and I quit watching the 10 and 11pm news. If is it is not on at 6pm, forget about it.

  32. Help censor the Amercian press by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
    If you are an US student we are recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.
    We can stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression -But only with your help!

    Free housing:In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!
    We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.
    Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!
    If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
    -simply build over them!
    Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

    We can protect your residential developments on occupied land with experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.
    If you are a US citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes along the Med, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated yearly by American taxpayers to support our broken-ass state.

    Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs $$$$$$s to terrorise a whole region.
    Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.
    Vacancies available:We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
    The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower division.
    We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer today.If anybody criticises you, call them anti-Semitic.
    It worked for the Liberty.

  33. skinner box by ch-chuck · · Score: 1

    if the consumer pushes the right buttons it gets a piece of cheese! Squeak!

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    1. Re:skinner box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not quite... It's a slightly less expensive piece of cheese.

  34. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  35. I just took the blue pill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    5mgs of Xanax, that is. I'm pro-patent (cause I have two pending), but this is truly whack.

    1. Re:I just took the blue pill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's nothing wrong with patents aslong as your invention is something novel, non-trivial, and non-obvious.
      I'm anti-software patent but I don't see much problem in actual, solid innovations getting patented. Good for you.

  36. Arrrghhh IRONY! by Richard+W.M.+Jones · · Score: 1
    Isn't that supposed to be a British thing???

    Rich.

    1. Re:Arrrghhh IRONY! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ironically, no.

      (p.s. Note the sarcasm)

    2. Re:Arrrghhh IRONY! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Dude IRONY is an aluminum PATENTED water-resistant watch made by Swatch.
      Now stop infringing use lowercase...oh the irony.

  37. You have to admit it's innovative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, you have to admit it's a pretty innovative idea: offering something to somebody, in order to get them to do something. Would someone trained in the art of getting people to do things, have ever thought of that?

  38. Up next... by ender1598 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Patents encouraging people to:

    Surf the internet
    Go to school
    Raise children
    Listen to the radio
    and to leave the toilet seat down when finished!

    --
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those that understand binary and those that do not.
    1. Re:Up next... by phiala · · Score: 2, Insightful
      and to leave the toilet seat down when finished!

      You could make money off that one!

      --
      I prefer to be called Evil Scientist.
    2. Re:Up next... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "and to leave the toilet seat down when finished!"

      Honey if it's so freakin easy why can't you learn to leave it up for me when you're finished?

  39. a christmas story *NT* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NT

  40. It's true? by Nate+B. · · Score: 1

    I'm wondering, did I oversleep and it's really April 1? Nope, Firefox clock says its July 22, 2004.

    How much more stupid of a patent can the USPTO grant? Surely they were laughing down there when they issued this one. I hope so at least.

    --

    "Insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result."
  41. TV vs CRT by storem · · Score: 1

    No time to watch TV. Must configure Linux box! Must configure Linux box!! Must configure Linux box!!!

    1. Re:TV vs CRT by builderbob_nz · · Score: 1

      ...Must configure Linux Box!!!
      ...Myst configure Linux Box... Myth configure linux box...

      --

      Karma? Hey I just call it as I see it.
  42. TV Contests by kooshvt · · Score: 1

    This has been going on for years. Local television channels have you watch one program for a secret password and then later watch another program with the number to call and try and win some silly prize. It has been used on radio for many more years, as another poster pointer out the Christmas Story's Orphan Annie Secret Decoder Ring.

  43. Positive Anger Management by pandrijeczko · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Let me make a suggestion to everyone out there in Slashdotland who uses a Microsoft product in any way.

    Whether you love or hate Windows, whenever you read an article like this about more Microsoft stupidity, rather than venting your anger on your monitor or even on Slashdot, turn it into something positive & deny Microsoft just a little bit of the power they have over you.

    No, I'm not talking about fdisk-ing your hard drive and diving manically for the nearest Linux distro - instead, have a scout round all your Windows applications and spend an hour or two downloading and playing with an Open Source or free equivalent application, just to see what that little bit of your life will be without Microsoft.

    Take something simple, like the Notepad text editor. If you're feeling really brave, you could go try out Vim if you want to do vi-type editing in Windows, otherwise, go try Textpad++ for a more traditonal-style editor. (I won't put links here, just Google for them, you'll find them.) Spend a couple of hours just trying to wean yourself off that little piece of Microsoft dependency, you will feel better for it, believe me!

    Others you could try are Thunderbird for email, Ethereal for network sniffing, Firefox as a web browser, Filezilla as an FTP client, ExactAudioCopy (with Lameenc) for ripping MP3s... the list is endless.

    Just make sure you do something positive with your anger. It may well be that the day you ditch Windows is a long way off (perhaps never) but at least you'll feel a little more confident that if and when that day comes, you'll be just that one step closer to an easy transition.

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    1. Re:Positive Anger Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey that's a great idea!

      I'm going to do that as soon as I finish watching this show. I don't know what it is, but if I watch and collect the codes, I can win a free Coke! AWESOME!!

    2. Re:Positive Anger Management by Qrlx · · Score: 1

      Sorry, no can do, there's a restraining order that keeps me away from the Scouts.

    3. Re:Positive Anger Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kudos! This is a great suggestion. I am kind of away from Windows, I use Mac or Linux at home, ... but still have to use Windows at the office, even though we have many UNIX servers.

      It seems like MS wants to control the future, ..., our future, if we sleep on this now, in 10 years from now, it may all be MSNBC ...

    4. Re:Positive Anger Management by Nate+B. · · Score: 1

      Want a nice text editor that works on WinWhatever(TM), Linux and others? Try FTE! I've used it since 1996 and there are darn few apps this side of Midnight Commander and Bash that I've used daily for that long.

      --

      "Insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result."
    5. Re:Positive Anger Management by Mike+Hawk · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Yeah, I downloaded that GIMP photoshop clone, but it had some weird licensing scheme that required me to give up some rights if I created derivative works from the program. Since all I intended to do was use the program to create derivative works I deleted it immediately. I wonder if it is any good. Oh well, at least I know for certain I am free to do whatever I wish with my free copy of MS Paint.

      You are right though, it was a positive experience to see how the other half fools itself into thinking it has it better. I've never felt angry at Microsoft. Are you sure you aren't just projecting?

    6. Re:Positive Anger Management by rishistar · · Score: 1

      If I don't want to use the Windows in the office I can just pull down the blinds and turn on the air conditioning.

      --
      Professor Karmadillo Songs of Science
    7. Re:Positive Anger Management by Quinn_Inuit · · Score: 1

      Also, anything that keeps MS market share down helps. Netscape 4.7 was pretty darn buggy (at least on my computer), but I stuck with it anyway because I knew that site counters tracked browser share, and I didn't want to be one of the people who made it possible for web developers to say, "Well, nobody's using Netscape, so let's just code for IE." It may have been futile, but we've got to start somewhere.

      --

      Stop learning! Only you can prevent esoterrorism.
    8. Re:Positive Anger Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're feeling really brave, you could go try out Vim if you want to do vi-type editing in Windows, otherwise, go try Textpad++ for a more traditonal-style editor.

      VI isn't a traditional-style editor? Somehow I think I'm not Kansas anymore.

    9. Re:Positive Anger Management by killjoe · · Score: 1

      LOL. I knew windows users were stupid but I didn't know that were THAT stupid.

      Thanks for the laugh.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    10. Re:Positive Anger Management by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1
      One point of hypocrisy I note in your comment...

      You rigidly apply the GPL against yourself to make the (incorrect) assumption that a "derivative work" from GIMP is a piece of graphic data you create with it (actually, it means modifications to the GIMP source code not the images you make with it).

      But you then define MSPaint as "free" which of course it is not if you apply Microsoft's EULA against yourself as rigidly as you have the GPL.

      MSPaint is only "free" when you run an illegal copy of a Windows operating system because you've ignored the EULA.

      There's the hypocrisy...

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    11. Re:Positive Anger Management by Mike+Hawk · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. Before I posted I reread the Windows XP EULA and the GPL. The GPL tries to tell me what I can do with things I create, Windows doesn't. The choice is clear. When I need to choose a platform on which to create things, I need to choose one that allows me to own what I create without restriction.

    12. Re:Positive Anger Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's right, because the last thing Microsoft wants you to do is spend $30 on an external text editor just so you don't need to use Notepad. Ouch! All those people no longer using Notepad will really hurt them.

  44. It sounds more like they've patented,,, by alex_ware · · Score: 1

    the way teachers make kids watch the videoes at school: "encouraging viewers to pay attention to television programs,.....To verify that the viewer paid attention to the commercial, the answer to the question may be based on the content of the commercial. A sponsor might ask, for example, that the viewer identify the name of the sponsor or the color of an announcer's shirt"
    the reward being not having to copy a transcript of the program at breaktime/lunch

    --
    If you have nothing useful to say post as AC.
  45. prior art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heck, this has been going on in radio for the last 40 years at least. Isn't this obvious?

  46. Prior arts? by Eudial · · Score: 1

    Would call http://watchfarscape.com/ prior arts =P

    --
    GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
  47. The Ultimate MS Patent by spirit_fingers · · Score: 0

    I dare them to patent the Blue Screen of Death. No wait... they'd probably charge a fee every time some old PIII running WinME crashes.

  48. Incentive of a different sort by raider_red · · Score: 1

    Can I get frequent flyer miles if I trade in my TV? There's nothing good on, and I think it would be nice to go somewhere else.

    --
    It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
  49. Drat... by SeaFox · · Score: 1

    I have no incentive to continue my Hit-remote-button-get-a-piece-of-cheese machine.

  50. Re:Saturday Morning TV by HermanZA · · Score: 1

    To the patent office, the only prior art is prior patents. They do not look at anything else. Therefore, your example of 1970 TV cartoon competitions is not a concern to them, since it wasn't patented...

  51. Prior Art Exists.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Though I didn't RTFP, I do remember this sort of thing on the local Fox station... "watch Simpsons all this week, and if you see Bart skateboard along the bottom of the screen, call 1-800-... to win a free to trip to Hawaii"

    Seems a little scary how Patent crazy people and corporations are getting considering how long those suckers last. I guess the cyberpunk movies and books were right... information is worth more than gold...

  52. Public Domain?? by John.P.Jones · · Score: 1
    "The Viola browser is not the same as the 906 invention," said Trey Davis, UC's director of special projects and new media. "Neither browser was in the public domain, so neither can invalidate the 906 invention."
    Wait a darn minute...

    According to Wikpedia...

    Prior art is all information that has been disclosed to the public in any form before a given date.
    So where does Trey Davis get off talking about public domain (a MUCH stronger burdern than necessary)???

    Oops I am an employee of the University of California, I retract this post =)

    1. Re:Public Domain?? by rewt66 · · Score: 1

      Because he can. Because, even though he knows it's bogus, he hopes he can get a judge to swallow it.

      Lawyers make bogus, unsound arguments all the time. But one thing I have learned from reading all about the SCO mess on Groklaw: If you put forth bogus arguments, and your opponent has enough money to hire really good lawyers, you're going to lose every one of your bogus arguments.

      I think Microsoft has enough money to hire really good lawyers. They're going to shred this argument.

    2. Re:Public Domain?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the Viola issue was as clear as you make it out to be, the trial would never have gotten this far.

  53. I've just patented... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1
    ...giving CEOs (with far too much money and too little common sense) a good thump.

    My patent is free to use by all as long as I can hold them down while you do the thumping.

    The only exceptions are Gates, Ballmer, McBride & Fiorina where I get to poke them each in the eye once halfway during the thumping session.

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  54. Prior Art by mrmike37 · · Score: 1

    Prior Art:
    Radio Stations that have contests for remembering the last X songs.
    Radio Stations that have give-aways for those who register, and have to listen to hear their name called.
    TV Shows that allow you to play along at home and win prizes.

    This is hardly new or even novel.

    --
    Really, I'm not trying to be clever with my signature.
  55. I've heard.... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    That some of those dumb Yeropeons think that patnets on business methods are a bad idea.

    I wonder why they think this. Must be socialist anti-corporatism, if you ask me.

    1. Re:I've heard.... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1
      "patnets"?

      Traps for persons of Irish decent?

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    2. Re:I've heard.... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Exatcly.

      Hints for safe Slashdotting #1: Don't post a comment after a pint and a half of wine.

    3. Re:I've heard.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's "You're a' peein'", not "Yeropeon"....

  56. Kill your TV by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

    Trading Spouses, a which is a FOX ripoff of Wife Swapping. The mind boggles that someone would want to do that, but then again the entire reality TV phenomenon (which, if you notice, is getting further and further away from "reality"). But that should count as your reality show.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
    1. Re:Kill your TV by vsprintf · · Score: 1

      the entire reality TV phenomenon (which, if you notice, is getting further and further away from "reality")

      Were there ever any shows that really were based on "reality"? Even Survivor, which is sometimes interesting because of the shifting alliances, is done in a completely contrived situation, and the end product is heavily edited. Those shows should really be called unreality TV. When I first heard the term "reality TV", my comment was, "Why would I ever want to watch a TV show about my everyday life or anyone else's?"

    2. Re:Kill your TV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I first heard the term "reality TV", my comment was, "Why would I ever want to watch a TV show about my everyday life or anyone else's?"

      Millions of people want to watch TV shows about other people's everyday lives - as the audience figures for soap operas have been proving every day for the past half century.

    3. Re:Kill your TV by vsprintf · · Score: 1

      Good Lord. You can't really believe soap operas are about real people, can you, mishan?

    4. Re:Kill your TV by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Were there ever any shows that really were based on "reality"?

      Well, as much as it ever could be, I guess. The first season of "The Real World" on MTV, which kinda started the whole thing off, seemed pretty "real". Everyone in that show was a well-adjusted reasonable person with a job who pretty much just went about their life while being filmed, a formula that wouldn't be repeated again in the genre. Apparently the novelty of "reality" wore off quick. First they began picking people so as to create conflicts, and then pretty much gave up all pretense and turned the genre into another type of game show. The kind where the utter lack of challenge or content is filled with the contestats bickering. That's what makes it "reality".

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    5. Re:Kill your TV by vsprintf · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I can't recall ever hearing of the show, but I haven't watched anything on MTV in years, so that's probably why.

  57. Microsoft's future plans by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I know everyone is saying they are amassing patents in a defensive move.. but I cant see them passing up the opportunity to go on the offensive when they have large enough portfolio.

    Between that, and their bank account, they could pretty much eliminate everything that stands in their way.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  58. Patent War by Frostalicious · · Score: 1

    Microsoft is clearly gearing up for the coming patent war. Perhaps it is using SCO as a test pawn. MS's "trail blazing" engineers have proudly filed over 3000 patents last year. I bet you didn't know MS innovates over 10 times per day. Now that MS can't grow much more in the software space, it will use the litigation space to satisfy shareholders.

  59. Prices to watch tv? What next pay people to watch? by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1
    Geez IMPROVE THE GODDAMN PROGRAMMS. You know something funny? One of the longer running programs on the bbc and copied to dutch tv is "Have I got news for you" a program that has 1 host (now rotating on the bbc with celebs after the original hosts had a scandal) and two two man teams with a regular on each time and a celeb as guest. The hosts asks topical news questions and the teams answer either with the right answer or a funny one or often both.

    It sounds like it would never appeal to the mainstream (it started on bbc2 wich should tell you enough) but it does. Other stuff has come and gone but that show is still there with only the host now changed.

    So why oh why is the bbc showing more and more reality shows and wondering why the viewers are dropping off left right and center? (where as no-one has attempted to duplicate the success of hignfy despite the fact that it only runs a few weeks per year and there is news year round)

    Are tv-makers so dumb that they just can't see that while their programs may score high with focus groups there is one tiny little problem with focus groups? That people with real jobs and lifes just don't have the time to sit on a focus group.

    Here is a single golden rule for tv. DO NOT AIR 2 OF THE SAME TYPE OF PROGRAMS AFTER EACH OTHER OR ON TWO CHANNELS. Just look at the bbc schedule. Multiple cooking, home improvement, reality crap, soaps, gardening. Nothing to get me watching. Not that I mind cooking shows. BUT NOT 2 behind each other. Jeez.

    This patent seems silly to the extreem. If ever implemented it will be the final proof that tv-makers have lost all touch with reality. JUST make programs people want to watch. Do not try to appeal to all people at the same time as noone will like that. But also make sure that the people not attracted the current 30 minute program have something to watch afterwards.

    What is really killing tv is that if there is only 1 watchable program at say 9:30 then the risk is that person remembers to late and never turns the tv on at all.

    Instead you want to say get a person to watch at 8:00 to something that sorta interests them, then sit through the program at 8:30 that doesn't totally repulse them, then be slightly interested by something they didn't expect at 9:00 and finally at 9:30 ready for their program and hopefully to stay for the rest of the evening.

    That is at least how tv worked for me, I had it on in the background and if something came along that intrested me I watch, if something didn't I might switch channels and watch something else while doing other stuff. But nowadays I get repulsed even having the current crap on mute. So I don't watch at all, not even the hot stuff, not the mildly intresting stuff (and for dutch tv) certainly not the commercials.

    As a side not isn't there plenty of prior art, I seen plenty of "quizes" that asked you about something you seen on the program or read in an article. Hardly new.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  60. Television's been doing it for a while by flying_monkies · · Score: 1

    The local fox affiliate has been doing this for a couple of years. Find the code, enter at the site, win cool prizes... Hmmm, a fight between the Evil Empire and Fair and Balanced Reporting... I think I need some popcorn

    --
    I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it to the death - Voltaire
  61. Not just incentives... by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 1

    eIncentives!

    It's the e that makes it patentable.

  62. Patenting is too easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There should be some kind of regulation to avoid obvious patenting like this.

  63. Flamebait...whatever by nysus · · Score: 1

    If I had a patent on a guaranteed way to persuade Bill Gates to drop his drawers and let you fuck him up the ass with a pipe wrench, I'd be a millionaire.

    --

    ---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.

  64. Everyone owes me mad royalties for my patent by d_jedi · · Score: 1

    All the computer companies, anyway (lousy restricted length subject!)

    My patent:
    A METHOD for receiving a patent that
    a) is obvious
    b) has prior art
    c) no one in their right mind would think is patentable

    --
    I am the maverick of Slashdot
  65. The good bits aren't in the abstract by jfengel · · Score: 1

    Reading the abstract, it struck me as odd that this didn't seem to involve computers in any way. Computers are Microsoft's business, after all.

    You have to read way down to figure out that the part they're really patenting isn't the incentive system itself but the automated response gathering systems, over the web and over email.

    There are even some bits I'd I'd consider non-obvious, like localizing the prize by inserting the "there's a quiz coming up" signal further downstream.

    It's all got in mind the idea of a Web+TV terminal like (for example) Microsoft's WebTV. Claim 1 is definitely overbroad, but I'm not aware of prior art for many of the other ideas.

  66. Same old story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, this patent appears to be yet another case of "Doing X on a computer is patentable even though people have been doing X over the phone for years!" I think the Patent Office needs a better definition of the concepts of "Prior Art" and "Obvious".

  67. wouldn't that be discrimination? by patbob · · Score: 1
    Years ago, it was explained to me that I didn't actually need the coupon from the newspaper to get the discount because, if they forced me to have it, then they were discriminating against people who did not get the paper.

    Analogously, if MS actually tried to implement such a watch-to-get-the-goodie scheme, wouldn't they be discriminating against people who don't own a TV? Sure they can try to convince you that you have to watch for the goodie, but they can't actually force you to do so to get it.

    Hmmm.. sounds to me like there might somehow be a patent in there somewhere to box them in and prevent them from being able to use this patent.. if only I could figure out what it was so I could patent it...

    --
    Welcome to the net of 1000 lies. Upgrades are scheduled soon that should bring us to the 10,000 lies mark.
  68. My God! They've patented the BSOD! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It encourages you to watch TV as you reboot...

  69. Sounds like standard radio advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "When you hear the song xxxxxxx, dial in!"

    "What were the last 10 songs in order and who sang them?"

    "Which of the following songs was played in the last hour?"

    Or does adding visuals to the mix somehow differ significantly from the above?!?

  70. Forgive my crude understanding of the topic... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...but isn't the USPTO supposed to deny patents for technologies or processes that are obvious or otherwise self-evident to a tradesperson?

  71. How Wrong by Trailwalker · · Score: 1

    In 1998, I bought a WebTv for my Aunt, then in her 70s, Our Tv usage plummeted to almost zero. After a short time, I bought a PC, and my Aunt who is now 84, is still addicted to WebTv. I have a phone line just for her WebTv use. My Aunt is a true technophobe, but loves her IM and Chat Rooms, so the WebTv unit is perfect for her. She will sign up for anything and everything. She will open every piece of spam and click anything contained therein. WebTv protects her from a lot of unplesantness and allows an elderly shut in to access to a much wider world.

    Within a month I had cancelled our cable service. I watch the local news for the weather in the morning and thats it. Many of the friends I made on WebTv said they had a similar experience. WebTv can become an addiction and quickly change a Tv's status to that of an inefficient monitor.

  72. The had this before WebTV. by rspress · · Score: 1

    Whenever I use Windows for more than 10 minutes I would rather watch TV than continue using Windows.

    Of course MS Messenger, Media Player and Hotmail makes you want to watch TV because there are fewer ads on television.

  73. Does this mean.. by whoppo · · Score: 1

    ... that Microsoft now holds the patent on T & A ?? That certainly encourages a large viewer audience.

    --
    chown -R us /base
  74. A better method of increasing TV watching... by wtoconnor · · Score: 1

    A better method of increasing TV watching has been known since TV was first introduced. it is called Tits and Ass (TA). The more TA in a show or in commercials the more young males watch. I do not think it is patentable because of prior art.

  75. Older still... by Prof.+Pi · · Score: 1
    Stations been doing this for at least 10 years in Australia

    Radio stations in the seventies (maybe earlier) in my hometown (San Diego) would do things like call numbers they picked out of the phone book at random, and if whoever answered would win something if they could name the song they just finished playing. Typically the prize was N dollars, where N was the radio station's frequency in MHz.

  76. Take home defensive driving did it first by kaltkalt · · Score: 1

    Ever watch one of those take home defensive driving videos? They ask you questions like "what color shirt was blahblah wearing?" to encourage you to actually watch it. Prior art up the wazoo.

    --

    Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
  77. They have inconsistent views on patents by konmaskisin · · Score: 1

    because they have many lawyers ... there may be prior art to encouraging tv viewing in the form of cereal prizes et.

    Laywers cause crime

  78. Wow! by cgreuter · · Score: 1

    This could be the end of television. Still, I shouldn't get prematurely excited about over this.

    There might be a downside.

  79. Here's why this won't happen by melted · · Score: 1

    Patents are like nuclear weapons. There are a few countries in the world already that can destroy the planet Earth as we know and love it. They don't do this. Why? Because they know it's a stupid thing to do, and other countries will retaliate.

    If they start enforcing software patents en masse, I bet the next day there will be five dozen Eolas-like companies who have patented something primitive and stupid. Not to mention IBM with their GIANT portfolio who may decide to give Microsoft a hard time, big time.

  80. "Why don't you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...switch off your Microsoft(c) Web(R)TV(TM) and go and do something less boring instead"

    I threw out my TV nearly 2 years ago. It worries me now when I occasionally watch TV at friends' houses, what a load of mindless trash is being pumped into people. It could be such a great educational tool, a valuable medium, and it's just being squandered. At least this thing links to the web, so those that wish can seek out useful information. I'm talking about UK terrestrial television, maybe there's something worth watching on satellite...

  81. Oh no, not again... by Bored+Huge+Krill · · Score: 1
    before responding with the usual "Microsoft patents something that's been done before" responses, can I please encourage people to read the patent properly?

    Just FYI, but the abstract means (almost) nothing. Scroll down the page and read the text of claim 1. In order to infringe on this patent, somebody would have to do everything the relevant claim says, not just some of it.

    My reading says this is actually very specific, and certainly doesn't cover any generic method for "encouraging people to watch tv" - it's only the specific method described in the claims. But read for yourself - and be sure to read the claims, not just the abstract.

    1. Re:Oh no, not again... by dbk25 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Very specific? Here's the end of the patent:

      "While the present invention has been described in connection with specific embodiments, variations of these embodiments will be apparent. [...] Therefore, the spirit and scope of the appended claims should not be limited to the foregoing description."

      Frankly, claim 1 doesn't seem particularly specific or limited to me.

    2. Re:Oh no, not again... by Bored+Huge+Krill · · Score: 1

      The language you cite is at the end of the detailed description section, and is not in the claims. It's standard language to avoid them getting hung up on specifics within limits permitted by patent law. It can't get around the fact that, in order to infringe, you must do everything in the relevant claim. Read claim 1 - it's very specific. Anything in there overrides anything in the description.

    3. Re:Oh no, not again... by dbk25 · · Score: 1

      I have read claim 1, in detail. I encourage others to do so, to, rather than just accept someone else's description of it. (It's not very long.)

      It seems to me that the only things distinguishing it from the kind of promotions that have been performed for decades are:
      1) the use of e-mail rather than normal mail or telephone call from the viewer,
      2) a rather vague reference that the viewers "select" the reward notice - something that could be interpreted as specifically as when a computer user "selects" a menu option or dialog button, or as loosely as selecting to respond the notice by sending e-mail, and
      3) an even more vague reference to the "reward notice triggers" which have timestamps; which possibly could consist of announcing the contest at specific times and varying the announcement so that you know which announcement the viewer is responding to, or even having the viewer identify what time they saw the announcement.

      The rest of the "specifics" strike me as pretty conventional, classical promotion. So, if you let people enter by e-mail AND you can tell which announcement they respond to by time, have you met all of the requirements of Claim 1?

      Read it and decide for yourself.

  82. Re:A big part of the problem by symbolic · · Score: 1

    ...is that noone has been stupid enough to even try and patent much of what might be seen as prior art- mostly because it's so damned obvious, and patenting it would involve taking ownership of something completely devoid of anything even remotely innovative. Back when poeple actually had both common sense, and a sense of appreciation for real accomplishment, they'd have been embarrassed to submit some of the patents we're seeing today.

  83. Isn't RewardTV Prior Art? by ahecht · · Score: 1
    RewardTV has been doing exactly this since 2001. You get points for taking quizzes on the previous night's shows, but you get lots of bonus points for answering questions about certain commercials that ran during the show (to make sure you watched them) and for giving feedback on the commercials and the show.

    Once you have the points, as the Microsoft Patent suggests, you can use them at special auctions, to buy gift certificates to places like Amazon, and to enter contests.

    As far as I know, they aren't owned by Microsoft (yet).
    1. Re:Isn't RewardTV Prior Art? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Filed: May 8, 2000 To be prior art, RewardTV would have to have been created first.

  84. Big Frigging Deal! by qbzzt · · Score: 1

    So, Microsoft has the power to prevent other companies from giving you something for answering a quiz about their advertising. So what? It's not like it's a particularly nice technique, just a crutch for advertisers that don't have a way to be interesting.

    --
    -- Support a free market in the field of government
  85. Is this really an invention? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back in the early 1960's, when I was quite young, a local TV station had a children's program that did MOST of what's in Claim 1. (I'm sure they weren't alone, take this as a specific example.)

    It was New York City, and I think that the host was Chuck McCann, although it might have been Sandy Becker. The promotion was called "Catch Max", where a white figure would walk across the screen. If you caught Max, you were eligible for a prize. Max could, and did, appear during commercials. You caught Max by identifying the time he walked across, or what was happening onm screen at the time.

    Broadcast network to one or more receivers and viewers? Yup!

    Offer reward incentives? Yup!

    Reward notices? "Hey, kids, if you catch Max..."

    Repeatedly broadcase? You betcha! Over and over.

    time stamps? You knew what programs Max could appear in, and what time those programs ran.

    Select the reward notice? Depends on what "select" means. Does the Microsoft invention only apply to folks who have mice attached to their TVs?

    e-mail? Oooooh! They didn't HAVE e-mail in the 1960's. We had to use physical mail! Score one for the inventors at Microsoft!

    identify a group of viewers "at least partially based upon whether [they] submitted the solcitied e-mail response"? Well if you didn't enter, you couldn't win! That "at least partially" part covers a lot. BUT, there's that e-mail bit again.

    providing a reward to each viewer in the identified group? The group is isn't everyone who responsed, it's the group identified to receive a reward. Well, only the entries that were selected to win actually won.

    Does using e-mail instead of US Mail exclude this "invention" from prior art?

    Danke Shoen

    1. Re:Is this really an invention? by wolverine1999 · · Score: 1

      Italian tv stations used to do that too, I'm sure.
      Most definitely in the 80's and 90's.
      And I remember italian quiz king Mike Bongiorno doing competitions based upon sponsors, so that's quite a bit of prior art...

  86. "Embrace and extend" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The best incentive would be decent programming"

    SHHHHHH!!!! You don't want that to get patented
    too, do you?

  87. Remember IBM's "idea engine"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Several years ago (mid 90's), there was an IBM
    commercial that featured a guy talking to a woman
    at a restaurant. One of the things the guy
    said was that IBM had a way of thinking that
    they could come up with ideas even she couldn't
    think of (he used some buzzword, but I can't remember what it was)

    anyway, the "idea engine" they had was probaly
    something simple like this:

    Pool of objects:
    webserver remote browser control(ed/s) picture camera
    program shell

    what the engine generates:
    browser that controls program by remote

    browser that controls computer by remote program
    and shell

    program controled by camera

    program has webserver that uses camera for uploading images to browser

    etc etc etc.....

  88. Frequent-flier miles for watching TV? by Alexis+de+Torquemada · · Score: 1

    What's next? McDonald's pays people to eat their food?

    1. Re:Frequent-flier miles for watching TV? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      USPTO is a great comedy series like Friends. Its such wacky viewing.... eh? Pardon, you mean its real.
      Truth is stranger than fiction.

  89. Patent a tv with No off button by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh wait that was in Max Headroom so there would be some prior art to that one.

    1. Re:Patent a tv with No off button by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was central to 1984 too.

    2. Re:Patent a tv with No off button by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      A TV with no 'off' switch? Prior art dating back to, oh...

      Well, it's 2004 now, so let's say...

      20 years.

      In Corporate Britain, YOU watch BIG BROTHER!

      More seriously, though: I read recently that in North Korea the houses have radios built in to the kitchens which have can be turned up and down, but not off. They broadcast patriotic songs and speeches 24 hours a day.

      I imagine you'd be grateful for the power blackouts after a while...

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    3. Re:Patent a tv with No off button by man_ls · · Score: 1

      I bet if you break the volume wheel, it'll break the circuit, and it'll turn off.

  90. too tired of hearing about this crap.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please keep the news visible only to
    the US people so that only they get tortured
    reading news about the Nasty Company.

  91. Prior Art Found by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2, Informative

    This has been done, but what's more important for USPTO is that it's been done using a computer

    On digital TV in the UK, they're always asking viwers to 'press the red button' and be up for a chance to win 'something crap'.
    What's more competitions also run, like on Discovery Home & Leisure, where viewers watch the channel for an entire week and when they see a fish float across the screen then they press the red button to be up for a chance to win prizes.

    If this isn't exactly what the MS patent is going on about, I don't know what is.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
  92. Re:Prices to watch tv? What next pay people to wat by Yer+Mom · · Score: 1
    (it started on bbc2 wich should tell you enough)
    Actually, it started on Radio 4 as the News Quiz. Amazing how many programmes have gone from Radio 4 to BBC 2...
    --
    Never mind Spamassassin. When's Spammerassassin coming out?
  93. .. entered in a prize drawing .. by RedLaggedTeut · · Score: 1

    "For example, viewers who watch the commercial may be entered in a prize drawing..."

    Maybe they mean an automated method. This means MS has patented an idea no one has come up with yet because it is stupid. Its stupid because you don't know whether people are really watching. Applying the technology is similar to the dot com bubble, where people were told they could earn money by surfing.

    Thus, I'll have a whole rack of webTVs in my basement running continously so that I'll get entered into all these profitable prize drawings ;-)

    Well, you can easily fix my objections if you make people click buttons in reaction to the commercial. Might even be entertaining for a while.

    You can't patent stupidity, only an implementation of it.

    --
    I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
  94. Not to forget Robert Rankin... by aug24 · · Score: 1
    In 'Armaggedon: The Musical', Rankin describes a post-apocalyptic world in which watching TV gets you more food and goodies. Oh, and Elvis is in it. And Barry the Time-Travelling Sprout. But I don't think MS have copyrighted them.

    Justin.

    --
    You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
  95. Blue Screen of Death? by gilesjuk · · Score: 1

    It's their way of getting people to log off and watch more TV?

  96. Re:Prices to watch tv? What next pay people to wat by mpe · · Score: 1

    You know something funny? One of the longer running programs on the bbc and copied to dutch tv is "Have I got news for you" a program that has 1 host (now rotating on the bbc with celebs after the original hosts had a scandal) and two two man teams with a regular on each time and a celeb as guest.

    Actually "Have I Got News for You" is a TV version of an even longer running programme on BBC Radio 4 called "The News Quiz". Since BBC radio and televison is available in the Netherlands the Dutch TV version could be taken from either.

  97. What's next, a patent on flushing? by couch_warrior · · Score: 1

    To the extent that this development discourages other parties from encouraging people to watch TV, for fear of violating the Microsoft patent, this could become an unintended benefit to society in general. But wait, quick, somebody charitable had better patent the process of flushing the toilet, or we're all in deep doo-doo, figuratively speaking ;-)

    --
    "Sic Semper Path of Least Resistance"
  98. prior art by gmr2048 · · Score: 1

    I would think that beer, remote controls and la-z-boy could claim prior art pretty easily.

  99. Patent office website USEING Eolas patent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I went to http://uspto.gov/ to read the Eolas patent.

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PT O1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-bool.ht ml&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5838 906

    That's # 5838906. Click on "Images" button on bottom, which tries to load a TIFF, which you can only see with the right plugin of course, and it uses the EMBED tag:

    < embed src="/.DImg?Docid=US005838906&PageNum=1&IDKey=4EE2 3B121E7E&ImgFormat=tif"

    Which may or may not be covered by the patent. I thought this was mildly amusing.

  100. Re:Prices to watch tv? What next pay people to wat by Dave2+Wickham · · Score: 1
    Here is a single golden rule for tv. DO NOT AIR 2 OF THE SAME TYPE OF PROGRAMS AFTER EACH OTHER OR ON TWO CHANNELS. Just look at the bbc schedule. Multiple cooking, home improvement, reality crap, soaps, gardening. Nothing to get me watching. Not that I mind cooking shows. BUT NOT 2 behind each other. Jeez.


    You don't want to see BBC Amerca then - Ground Force Ground Force Ground Force Changing Rooms Changing Rooms Changing Rooms
  101. microsoft's patent : encourage viewers to watch TV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think this will only distract people from the real content of the announcer or the ad. or the program. If one is trying to concentrate on the anouncer's shirt colour, the psychological process of making an effort to remember to look for it --> identifying it--> and getting the satisfaction would surely distract most people from the content.

  102. Microsoft's patent by abstractshiva · · Score: 1

    I think this will only distract the viewer from the main content. If one is looking for the colour of the announcer's shirt, then the psychological process of remembering to look for it--> identifying the colour--> and getting the (unknown) satisfaction of doing it would distract many viewers from the content.