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Education Via Video Games
An anonymous reader writes "According to Wired/AP, food stamp recipients will now receive video games instead of brochures and pamphlets, in an effort to educate them on how to get the most benefit. One wonders why someone that can't afford food would have spent money on a computer on which to play these games."
Link : The Legacy
Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do!
This reminds me of that one bash.org quote:
Things I've learned about war from videogames: If you find yourself mortally wounded by an enemy sniper be sure to let him know that he is a faggot.
"According to Wired/AP" - never thought I'd see that. o.O
Are they going to supply the XBOX and Television too?
Sign me up!
i read the same article on google news. it seems to be more of a public education issue. btw, where in america ISN'T a computer these days. even the ultra poor have pc access.
Sounds idealistic? Yes, it does. But lets also not forget that this UN body last year fed more than 100 million people.
Food Force will be free, either as a CD or as a download from the internet. The WFP is also looking at distributing it in schools as an educational tool
http://efil.blogspot.com/
Minimum System requirements:
Athlon 64 3400+ or equivalent processor
512 MB of RAM
Radeon X800 or equivalent video card
Seriously though, if the game works on a P90, then one could expect even the poorest of poor to afford a computer to run it since even much faster machines are practically given away everywhere all the time.
What happens when you die in this video game?
Just give em a copy of the Oregon Trail and teach em how to hunt. This way, they don't need welfare, they're self sufficient, the deer and bear population is controlled, everybody wins. They will learn invaluble lessons, like: You can kill 1000 pounds of elk but only carry twenty back to they wagon. Saved my life many a time, helped me preserve those musket rounds.
That should've been Education Via Video Games I must have been hungry!
http://efil.blogspot.com/
Doom 4 - Hungry as Hell
I learnt how to use a PDA by playing DOOM3... :))
i.e UAC [ Union Aerospace Corporation ] PDA
sing after me...
we dont need no education...
fifteen jugglers, five believers
You only need to buy a computer once.
Seriously, I could walk down the street to the Goodwill and drop $10 on an old monitor or a PC, but they wouldn't be pretty. For $100 I could buy a decent P-II system used. That's not too bad for something which I can use to help me get a job. Heck, it's less than some unemployed people I have known spent on beer in a month.
Believe it or not, computers don't all cost $4000, have an "Alienware" logo on them and come with artificially intelligent graphics cards from a company called "Skynet".
sell their computers and electronic eq as a condition for benefits?
JUUUUUUUST kidding, folks.
Seriously, though.
"Players in the Price Makes Sense have to use their math skills to figure out the best food deal; for instance, that six servings of eggs at $1.20 is cheaper per serving than five servings of chicken at $2.00."
The error in the reasoning here is that 6 servings of eggs probably means more cholesterol than 5 servings of chicken, oh and it's a certainty that 5 servings of chicken fills you up far more than 6 servings of eggs. Based on what fills you up, the 6 servings of chicken at $2.00 is the best deal.
This brings me to the major question of my post... how credible is the "education" this game offers?
Oh, and if I have a Gameboy Advance and I'm on welfare, and this game only plays on the PS2, am I SOL? o_O
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
Another food-game story from the BBC:
"The game itself is somewhere between a game like Tomb Raider and a lecture from the WFP," explained the game's designer, Mike Harrison.
Those funky, funky people...
"Because so many young adults played such games as kids, they ought to be able to learn more easily from them, too, said the project's director"
This kind of education game is a good idea for very young children (before the age that cynicism gets the better of them), but adults?? If I was hard up, I would feel very patronised if I received a computer game telling me to store perishables in the fridge.
"They played a medieval-themed game called Squire's Quest, developed by researchers at Baylor College of Medicine's Children's Nutrition Research Center. Kids win by getting promoted from squire to knight. But the real goal is to get them to eat more fruits and vegetables."
"Unfortunately, most of them are still trying to work out how to give the Kerrek a cold one."
Presumably, greater awareness of the hunger problems in less fortunate parts of the world will make the kids/new-generation more sensitive to the world's problems.
Anybody know if they have anything on the benefits of democracy and free markets, nation building, the stark (and usually dreadful) realities of dictatorships and communism, the effect of farm welfare on foreign food markets, etc., etc.? If it's just a bunch of "look at these poor people who through no fault of their own are starving, and look at the nice people who helped them," it might be accurate, but not very well-rounded.
Of course, knowing the UN, we'd have to assume they don't really tell the whole truth, for fear of upsetting somebody.
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
Will you need to have windows to run this software?
Hypotheticals...
The person on food stamps may have either saved up to buy a cheap system.
The person on food stamps may have bought the system before becoming poor. Selling the system may only bring in $30, which will temporarily buy food, yet cut your overall quality of life.
But lets also not forget that this UN body last year fed more than 100 million people.
This can't be true! What about all the propaganda that claims the UN is nefarious world government out to overthrow the US killing millions of people every year in a scheme wipe out western democracy?
Next I suppose you'll claim the government is an institution created by the people rather than an embodiment of pure evil administered by secret societies of pagan worshippers.
I also heard that console games allow doctors to practice their hands (if not brain?) So they can be more sucessful with those open heart surgeies. What is next, doom 3 give you 20/20 vision?
This Sig is removed due to factual inaccuracy
I haven't wasted my welfare money on a fancy new computer that plays video games. I have a VAX 11/780 which I've been nursing along for the past 25 years. I play rogue and, when my core memory isn't acting up, I play Nethack.
I hope this training software comes for VMS.
One wonders why someone that can't afford food would have spent money on a computer on which to play these games.
I'm posting this anonymously because it uses the N word, and the N word isn't very nice.. but a friend of mine has this opinion and I think he might be on the money.
Basically it's because a lot of people are "nigger rich." This supposedly means that the person is crap with their money. They buy rims for their car before they buy textbooks for their kids. They have a 50" entertainment center, but eat grits for breakfast.
A lot of people DO live like this. They spend money on the most pointless of crap without buying the basics first. Sure, they have 500 channels on the entertainment center, but the kids have clothes with holes in.
So, that's my reply to this. A lot of people are crap with their money, and would buy a computer to play games on before they'd bother to work out how they're paying their rent this month.
World Food Programme (WFP) seeks to capitalise on the popularity of video games to educate youngsters (target audience of children aged between eight and 13 years old) about hunger and the work of the aid agency, and not to those who cannot afford food.
a sp:
There could be better ways to do this, since educating using games seems to be a flawed idea.
From http://www.game-research.com/art_myths_of_gaming.
Not long after the birth of computer games the first hopes for the potential of learning through games were expressed. Wouldn't it be great if the enthusiasm exhibited when playing games could be used for good, sound learning? Since then, several commercial games showing various degrees of success have been labelled 'edutainment' - a combination of the two words education and entertainment.
However, neither the education nor the entertainment part has been very successful in these titles- combining the two has turned out to be a tough job. According to the proponents of learning through games the main potential lies in the ability of games to increase motivation through the interactive nature of games, putting the player in control of the learning and the game's options for adjusting the level of difficulty. However, it seems that most edutainment games have problems living up to these reasons for using games in the first place.
In her book Dataspill - Innføring og analyse (translation: Computer games - introduction and analysis) about games Eva Liestøl analyses five different games. She finds that the one game that does not let the player choose his own path through the game world is the edutainment title. She doesn't press the issue but if you look at other edutainment titles, you find the same pattern - educational titles seem to take over the control and narrow down the game universe to make it fit with the intentions of the producer. These intentions are often to convey some specific information about a topic. Closing the game universe and conveying specific information does not fit well with traditional game dynamics, where simple and general rules are the backbone. In stead, educators have to a larger extent turned to the adventure genre, where it is easier to focus on information, but they have found out that even here it is hard to convey the necessary depth of an educational topic.
Furthermore, very few studies have delivered hard evidence that games can be used for learning. Typically the research has been directed at putting learning into games and then assuming that this learning somehow came across to the player. But the ambition should be higher than this. It is not enough to have 'some kind of learning' in games. To truly say that games are great learning tools we must prove - or at least make probable - that games are better than other learning alternatives. And here we are still a long way from the goal - so the dream of games as great educational tools, remains a dream. (- Simon Egenfeldt-Nielsen)
"One game is called Store It Safe. It involves placing baked beans, tortillas, frozen chicken and other virtual groceries into a cartoon-drawn freezer, cupboard or refrigerator."
"In another game, a version of Concentration, players turn over blank cards that flash a food and a menu item made with that ingredient, then try to remember which card had the milk that matches the macaroni and cheese."
--
Might as well say
Dear Food Stamp Recipient,
Understanding food is hard. Many times, you wondered why your frozen chicken tastes bad after sitting on the porch for a couple of days. Also, why does green bread make tummy aches?
It hard, we know.
--
Is this game intended for retarded children, or is this incredibly condescending?
Seriously, if it is intended for kids whose parents never taught them to differentiate cupboards from refrigerators, I'd call social services instead of sending video games.
-- "I'm not a religious man, but if you're up there, save me Superman..."
have a decent job,
buy stuff like a computer,
lose that job,
sidenote: call the benefits line that handles food stamps and get india on the line (as they did in Wisconsin)
get a lousy job and need food stamps
make $24K with 2 kids and still need food stamps (as in Santa Clara county)
take any advantage they'll give you, even, yes, instructional video games
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
As computer literacy becomes almost a necessity in order to get a decent job, I would hope that low-income families invest in their children's future by having a computer at home. It's a lot better way to spend limited money than cable television.
Our society provides food stamps to help the hunger issue in the United States. Providing food stamps (for food) to the poor seems to be a reasonable way of helping - tax payers and administrators feel good (and approve) systems that buy food, but usually not ones that buy booze, PC's, or provide funds to the poor for discretionary spending. If the food stamps provide some relief, or eliminate food bills, then the poor have more money for computers, a nice Christmas, beer, and other items that generally contribute to better quality of life.
If you believe in helping the poor, and provide the help through food and food stamps, don't complain that they use the little bit of money that they DO have for items that you don't endorse - whether that is bus fare to the public library to access a computer, or a 6-pack of beer.
Bill: Nice to meet you, John. I'm Bill.
John: I create video games. How about you?
Bill: I work in the government welfare system. So how's business, John?
John: Not so good, Bill. People just aren't interested im my games with ones like Doom 3 around. Still, your job sounds fulfilling?
Bill: Well, John, it could be... except that we're trying to get over the message to people on welfare about how they need to maintain a balanced diet, especially for their kids. We're not doing too well getting the message across, even with a 25 million dollar advertising budget from the government...
John: Jeez, Bill. And there's me, unable to get my game "Kitchen Invaders" published, with a 22-year old nymphomaniac, single, lingerie-modelling daughter too...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
I work in the food industry, I see what people can buy with these food stamps. When they come through talking on cell phones I know to be at least 400 dollars, buying crab legs and other such expensive things.. yah. Food stamps should be gotten rid of altogether.
Cuz I seriously doubt the truth of what you say
eat shiat and bark at the moon
"One game is called Store It Safe. It involves placing baked beans, tortillas, frozen chicken and other virtual groceries into a cartoon-drawn freezer, cupboard or refrigerator."
Last time I checked, baked beans generally come in cans, and tortillas don't really thaw that well after being frozen. Besides that, does anyone else notice a certain ethnic targeting in the Store It Safe blurb?
One thing not mentioned in the article is any kind of basic food preparation guide. Many meats can cause serious illness or even death if not thoroughly cooked, even if you did pay a smart price for it, and stored it safe. Then again, that could be subtle form of population control...
Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
Yeah, because we KNOW that having the government do anything is the most efficient way to get it done...right?
Fool.
The topic of learning through the means of video games, can't go without a reference to Project LRNJ.
This game helps you to learn Japanese. It's just so much fun learning this way! For those interested, here is the website:
http://lrnj.com/
Yeah, obviously it should have been written for Playstation. ;-)
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
Cartman: [scanning] Where is the- Nintendo?
Mr. McCormick: We don't have a Nintendo. We got a ColecoVision hooked up to the black-and-white TV. [rats scurry near it]
Kyle: Oh my God. This is like a third-world country.
"One Law For the Rich and Another For the Poor" is a pretty common complaint in many places. The USA is supposed to refute that, though admittedly the power of cold hard cash does tend to skew the various legal and enforcement bodies. However, this will not be fixed by actually throwing the principle of equality away altogether, and creating actual seperate laws for rich and poor.
What possible justification can be made for deliberately setting out to punish those who have "made it", or even those who have had it made for them by the forbears simply because others haven't/can't/won't "make it"?
Keep in mind, you will want to be carefull in this justification to ensure it can't be extended to "Shoot the capitalist elite pigs! Power and means of production belong to the proletariat."
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
How's the weather in cloud cuckoo land this time of year?
I'm not sure how well this will work with food stamps, but if the folks at Planned Parenthood decide to get on the bandwagon, I think we'll have a winner
Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. -- Mark Harrold
Also, a lot of poor people are poor because they are poor decision makers. This extends into buying food at the corner store for much more than at the grocery store further down the street and to buying prepared foods that are much more expensive then buying the ingredients separately and freezing the leftovers for another day.
So, these people need lots of help with their decision making abilities AND they probably skimped and saved for a used PC or Nintendo for their kids. This sounds like a great idea.
The official consensus on this idea of video games affecting the learning process...was there ever an official consensus? It seems like one year video games affect learning adversely and the next year it promotes it! And you know we hear about something similar to this every year. Just some food for thought...
At least 5 yrs old, only 274 posts, with tons in the last week?
This is a troll, right? right? Sure it is, good one, buddy.
Err, I hope, I detect the gleam in your eye of a true believer, even at this distance, my sixth sense may be just acting up, but just in case you're serious..
Compulsory State Education makes people stupid, read gatto, or just look around at the indoctrinated masses at large, universal healthcare is inefficient, look at the numbers, long term unemployment (and?) welfare perhaps, a safety net to keep people from living in cardboard boxes under bridges couldn't be an entirely bad thing, I'd argue intensively with your numbers for providing such a system, though.
Progressive taxation isn't "one law for the rich". It's "Same law for everyone." Everyone pays a portion of their income in tax. We already have a gradation of income tax percentage, increasing as you make more money; skewing the percentages is hardly creating seperate laws.
Nowhere in that post is it advocated to do anything except change the relative taxation percentages.
---
Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
(I read with sigs off.)
Unfortunately, the food stamp program resulted in secondary black markets for food stamps. You can buy drugs with food stamps. The drug dealers accept the food stamps at a percentage of their face value. They are eventually sold to dishonest grocers who redeem them with the government for cash. Most states now issue food stamp recipients a benefits card, like an ATM card, that can be used to purchase groceries.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Even low income households can obtain a low end PC these days. I for one am in that boat. Except over years I have been able to build a up a very nice system.
There is a few non-profit organizations out there that help low income individuals, or organizations with obtaining computers.
It's easy as going to a thrift store now and building lowely Pentium system for cheap. Or grabbing parts from the curb. (Done that few times too).
And even if you don't have a PC, most likely you know someone that does, or have access to one.
Even for consoles, you may have little income, but you are allowed to spend the basic needs money (least here) on whatever you wish, as long as it's not illegal substances.
misundstood by most, hated by some, loved by few.
"One wonders why someone that can't afford food would have spent money on a computer on which to play these games."
People that had their jobs sent to India could fit the bill. Besides, which is more important: Food or your comp?
DeMe
or thats what Rockstar and Sony keep telling us right ? violence and video games have no connection, they dont affect us right ? America's Army Game is just fun right ? we cannot learn anything from video games and they have no impact on us its just bad parents that result in kids killing each other in school right ?
i think education via video games just proves all those parents who are suing video game manufacturers are right or is this all just a waste of time ?
That is the problem about being poor that "rich" people don't get. Not even if they had a "poor" period (typically they claim they had no money while being a student). Why don't they get it? Because they don't need to replace anything in that time. The bed the "rich" kid got from home when he wen't out of the house will last him a couple of years till he finished study and has found a job.
The poor kid's bed is already at the end of its live. Same with washing machines (Is it only in holland that the kid moving out gets the old one while the parents buy a new one?) a tv, a car, furniture, anything.
Poverty really starts to show its teeth when things start breaking down. The washing machine breaks and you don't have the money to replace it, worse you now need to use the laundromat wich is more expensive preventing you from saving up for a new one. It also takes more time, time you can no longer spend improving your lot.
Social services in the Netherlands are beginning to get this. That it may be all very nice to give just enough money to survive and perhaps a little bit more but that it ain't enough for those who can't get out (remember that unemployment is good for business, full employment would mean it is a workers job market. See bubble on what happens then) of their situation. So they now make it possible under certain circumstances to get washing machines, fridges and other household equipment.
The above poster if obviously a "rich" person who doesn't get it. He mentions that having a car makes you rich. He forgets that a car may be essential for having a job. Public transport is great if you work in a office block and work 9-5. If you clean that office then you may find that all the buses stop running after 5. Or that your work is in a factory in the middle of nowwhere and the shift starts at 6. Long before their is anykind of public transport service. Even if your shift neatly fall in public tranportation times that may make it impossible to do overtime if your shift ends 5 minutes before the last bus.
So he got it exactly the wrong way around. Being able NOT to have a car shows your "rich".
So get a cheap old car? Cheap old cars break down more often and consume more fuel. Worse, in high paying jobs you may have "flexible" hours. Factory shifts tend to rely on everyone being on time.
A tv is the only form of information/entertainment the poor can "afford". Go to the library and read a book? Check opening times of the local branch library. Oh the city branch has evening opening times? And how do you get there?
Being poor is constantly being constrained by money for a long time (10yrs+). That is where the real problems occur that are hardest to spot and hardest to get for politicians. "Rich" people just don't get it. They can't, it would be like expecting men to understand the feelings of motherhood.
Sadly goverment is formed by the "rich". Even the "socialist" goverments, just check on how many of even the most socialist parties had to survive at or below the poverty line during they youth for long periods.
So please ignore the above poster. He ain't got a clue, he is just a little rich boy who doesn't realize how good he has it. Being poor is not having no money this month. Being poor is not having enough money for live. Think of it as a company operating at a loss. No problem so long as you can make up for the loss by the profits in the past, kinda like Sun is doing now. But if you never had profits you can't do that. Human beings don't go bankrupt, they just slowly die. Poor people live significantly shorter then "rich" people.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Maybe this guy does just need a little education to realize that those steaks aren't gonna carry him through the month, where my 5 pounds of beans will last me much longer.
The poor can't read so we'll educate them in spite of their own subhuman inabilities. If you're going to keep the poor down, you have to continually reinforce those stereotypes. This is a good one though. Reinforces illiteracy among the poor at the same time as it reinforces the middle class's opinion that poor people are illiterate. Why it's a PR home run!
I can only imagine these games having doom 3 specs...
3Ghz Processor
2G of Ram
256MB Video Card
Gigabit Ethernet Connection
Mouse/Keyboard/Monitor
SoundCard
Welfare is helping the higher end manufactures make some money... Remember to save the poor, you must feed the rich!
One wonders why someone that can't afford food would have spent money on a computer on which to play these games
Am I the only one that found this particular element of the comment particularly condesending?
Maybe they got a computer because someone out there realized that technological knowledge is important for under privelaged kids to have, and that gaining access to said technology would be beneficial?
Having seen this particular program at work in my community, I've been impressed. They have the kids learn how to build computers, install all the software, and learn how to use common applications. At the end of the summer, they get to take a computer home with them. Pretty sweet.
I'm also in the same graduate department as James, so this is a bit of a shameless plug. However, he's put a ton of time and effort into it, and it is pretty neat that they are providing resources to kids that need them.
Now, these probably aren't your Quake 3 running machines, but who cares.
Just one possible solution...
- Sighuh?
It now has the option to give people household equipment if replacing old stuff themselves proves to be impossible. Sounds nice? Well not all that much since being able to "save" money is considered an indicator that you are to rich for social services. Lost you job but got say 2000 in savings? First consume the savings then come back.
But programs like in this article may be needed. It sounds like part of it is budgetting. Working out what is the best buy is not all that easy. And while I am the last to suggest that poverty == stupid it is not unreasonable to think that many poor people did not do well in school (if parents were poor there may have been no money for quality schooling).
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
"But lets also not forget that this UN body last year fed more than 100 million people."
So? While important, feeding people is only keeping them alive. One could argue that just feeding them is a good way to establish and maintain a fuzzy, feel-good beurocracy.
It doesn't address the issue of keeping them safe , which is more important and where the UN falls to its knees repeatedly. See the massacre just a couple of days ago.
The UN is not the end-all, freedom and economic development is.
and it was intended to be stupid. But I see some people might actually espouse that point of view, so let me debunk it here.
The reality is, if you had your way...
namely, if
a) poverty were defined strictly as having no ability to obtain any kind of sophisticated stuff (car, computers, etc)
and
b) the only way to qualify for assistance was to meet this standard of poverty
then you would have major, major problems across the entire economic food chain.
Let us say that the poor really should sell off their unnecessary belongings in order to qualify as poor (for the sake of social programs).
They would sell off and no longer buy (as long as they're poor) TVs, VCRs, computers, or cars. This automatically means that the people who sell these items, new (and the poor do sometimes buy new stuff!) or used, will not make money. That means they face greatly reduced profits, and thus, they will have to cut payrolls. That's called layoffs, sonny. Layoffs happen, then fewer people buy stuff, and it snowballs until you have a deep recession or even a depression.
Of course, if you believe social programs for the poor should be cut (this is what ultra conservative Libertarians believe), then you only help to accelerate the losses that merchants will suffer.
Remember, that while merchants dislike being taxed and regulated, the alternative is to put more economic pressure on individual citizens which pressures them to spend less. Less Government overhead is offset by steeply decreased profits. What good is lower taxes if you nearly aren't making any sales?
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
One thing I've noticed living in the Washington DC area for some time has been the number of Military who have to use food stamps. Considering the high living expenses of the DC area, it can be hard for a married Enlisted family to make ends meet.
Idunno about you guys, but I have definitely skimped on the food budget from time to time in my younger days in favor of upgrades to the computer. A week of rice'n'beans instead of real food => one more bank of ram.
---
Play Six Pack Man. I
I don't know even about very young children. I'm getting the idea that the only ones who make "educational games" are the ones too fucking unskilled to make a proper video game.
Can games teach people stuff? Well, yes. I've learned a lot of history stuff from games like Europa Universalis, or to a lesser extent Civilization. Or at least got the curiosity to read more about that from other places.
Or "Die Gilde" ("Europa 1400 - The Guild" for you 'merkins) gives you a historical report of what happened IRL in that year after each game year. I've learned more late medieval trivia from it than from any other game.
But here's the scoop:
1. It must be fun as a _game_. Civilization was a bestseller in its own right. It didn't need to masquerade as "educational software" to get any sales at all. Ditto for Die Gilde, at least in Germany. Europa Universalis has a steep learning curve, but also got quite a few people addicted on its own merits.
2. Don't lecture or preach. It must first and foremost be a game, not a piss-poorly disguised beating people up with a clue stick. People instinctively resist being lectured.
3. Don't be patronising. Stuff that basically says, "see, we know you're a fscking retard who doesn't know how to put stuff in a fridge. We also know you're an idiot who can't figure out the cheapest crap to buy." serves no purpose other than humiliating someone. If anything, it'll make them resist the lecture even more.
And I'm thinking the same could be applied to software for small children. A game should be written to be first and foremost a _game_, and only incidentally also education.
E.g., there are a ton of _fun_ ways to make someone exercise their maths or logic skills. Economic sim games have done that for ages. Puzzles are also a good means to that end. (And god knows even the worst maths puzzle is still better than yet another "jump puzzle".)
So it's not like they _have_ to be crappy _and_ patronising games to be educational. It's just that the people making them seem to be into patronizing their gamers. And in most cases also utterly unable to make a proper game anyway.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Just because this woman was buying champagne, it doesn't necessarily mean she was buying it for herself. Just because she had a big wad of cash, doesn't mean a single cent of it actually belonged to her. Or maybe it represented all the money she had to her name, and she was buying the champagne as a gift for a close friend who was celebrating, or perhaps for her husband/boyfriend who just got a new job that would pay enough for them to finally get off food stamps.
I guess my point in all of this is simply--YOU DON'T KNOW, SO STOP JUDGING.
Coming from slashdot, I'm not surprised that the bulk of posts are written from atop a high horse.
Being poor is not something that people wallow in. It is simply a state that people find themselves in. Most people do not strive to be poor. If the have a computer, they likely bought / got it prior to their current state of affairs.
Sometimes the effects are gradual. Sometimes there are mass lay-offs that occur that shut down entire towns. Mines, automotive factories, etc. can create instant poverty by closing shop. It's not pretty, and considering that a large percentage of people live paycheck to paycheck, it's not surprising that people don't know how to live 'poor'.
Snide comments about why people are poor are not solutions to poverty. They only prove that you lack a serious understanding of how the real world operates.
It is unfortunate that there will always be people out there looking to take advantage of a situation.
No, not that sort of adult. Sorry to dissapoint.
Go to Garage Games and check out Bridge Construction Set, available both for Windows and Linux.
With many Linux distros that use KDE, you can get several "edutainment" games such as Kiten (Japanese), KVerbos, Klettres, Ktouch, KFlashcard, Kstars.... They are OK, but rather limited. I hope they will become better, one day perhaps KPercentage will have grown enough to teach (for instance) 9 years of basic school math to anyone.
The best educational game I have played though was back in Windows 95 days, a Swedish game developer from my home town Uppsala had made a geography game that fit on one floppy. You could learn names and locations of continents, countries, states, capitols etc, the quiz was usually by pointing and clicking on maps when presented by a name.
I believe they later went on to make the Backpacker series. I have never played any of them, but appearently they are great successes. The sort of game parents can pick up at any supermarket for their kids and not worry about voilent content and so on...
if I ever get the time I hope to do a similar geography game in Java on Sourceforge.
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
Most of this arrogant posts on this thread are from slashdotters who do not realize that their own chances of becoming poor in the future is much better than their chances of getting rich. And that is sad considering that the poor are so much greater in number than the rich.
Here are some numbers for the arrogant posters to digest: one third of all recent tax returns (single AND joint filers) have gross incomes of less than $20K, and almost 50% of them are less than $30K.
THe problem is that corporate propaganda has convinced most Americans that they are on the verge of getting rich. But the house always wins, numbkulls.....
Why not take the SAFE way, the prudent way, as they do in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, France, Belgium, Canada, etc etc, and RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Who keeps modding this asswipe +1 Interesting? You must have a lot of (rich) friends.
1. Grow some balls (or ovaries if thats your thing). If its worth saying, its worth puting your name to it.
2. I'm mopre curious as to who keeps hitting me with "Overrated" when a post is already at 0.
3. I know no-one on slashdot. If I see a story or comment I feel its worth responding to, to which I have a genuine knowledge/insight and I feel like it then I post.
4. The only thing I ever say for mods, regardless of how much I agree/disagree with them is to remind them to browse at -1 to catch insightfull AC's (rare) and moderation abuses (common).
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
I used to be an arrogant, ignorant, free marketeer, libertarian, just like you. But then our clients' stock prices when into the dumpster, and I found myself with a lot of spare time. And I used to get educated, INDEPENDENTLY educated.
Check out my little webpage. Read the links with an open mind.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
but the article says:
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
Gee, Michael. Most of us already had computers from before when we became disabled, or ran out of unemployment, or whatever it was that drove our finanaces under our monthly needs. You sound like you expect that food stamps are for people who have sold off all their wordly possessions for pennies on the dollar and ready to break the lease and become homeless. Far better to prevent that kind of poverty BEFORE it reaches that level, and guess what? Generally we do!
Don't forget: 0 is overrated if the post can still be modded down to -1!
Nevermind the mod guidelines that say you should promote, instead of demote!
I been reading slashdot and posting for years. I did have another account at work, but I am now on unemployment (thanks to "free" trade), and I have used the spare time to get really educated and find out what politcal economy is all about.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Once you get to a certian high stadard of living, entertianment becomes a commodity. And I mean commodity in the economic sense of the word: no matter how much you charge, you will make more money, even at the loss of volume. People will pay their cable bill before their water bill. Iraqis went to extrodinary measures for satalite tv, and it was/is the biggest growth segment of their current economy.
Democrats and Republicans only disagree about how to enslave you
So? While important, feeding people is only keeping them alive.
They are also releasing a game to demonstrate this by releasing a new game for youngsters called "Starving Steve".
In it they have to delay giving Steve any food for as long as possible until he dies, showing that they don't really need that extra serving...
Sadistic Joke Count: 4
...to each according to his need.
Why are young men drafted, and not old men? Are we punishing the young men?
Why do we pay social security payments to the old and not the young?
One Law For the Young and Another For the Old?
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Like most RadLibs, you are completely clueless. Clearly you do not do any volunteer work in the inner city. You like to talk alot about helping the poor, but you don't actually get off your fat ass to do anything for them. It's all just an intellectual and ego-stroking exercize for you, so you can sit around with your friends telling each other how great the world would be if the RadLibs ran everything.
I occasionally volunteer at an inner-city government-subsidized apartment complex, and I have noticed several apartments with satellite dishes in front of them. Why do folks receiving government aid need sattelite TV? I also used to have a roommate when I was in college (about 4 years ago) who received food stamps. Here I was busting my ass in engineering school, and he had way better electronics than I did. He had a brand new laptop, a Sony HandyCam, and a Sega Dreamcast. The parent poster is absolutely correct.
Furthermore, this problem is not going anywhere because it is actually a cultural habit. You're much cooler if you spend half of your paycheck on new rims for your busted-up Chevy Impala instead of buying new shoes for your kid. I am trying to teach the young boy I mentor the value of saving his money and earning interest, but it is very difficult to get him to see beyond the here and now. He is impressed by the fact that his Dad drives a Cadillac Escalade, but he has no concept of just how much money that car costs. Perhaps one day he will ask the question, "Why does Dad drive a $50,000+ car, yet mommy and I live in a ghetto hellhole?" It is my hope that he will be able to use his mind/athletic abilities to get out of that neighborhood, but government hand-outs have produced two generations of people who are content with their circumstances. They lack focus and ambition. They have no goals, much less any idea about how to achieve those goals. Welfare doesn't empower anyone - it is actually a tool that ensures that the lower class will always remain in their place. But it allows the RadLibs to look compassionate while at the same time achieving their true agenda of keeping minorities "in thier place," and they get blame conservatives for the whole mess.
One wonders why someone that can't afford food would have spent money on a computer on which to play these games.
You're kidding, right?
In high school/college I worked summers at a convenience store in my tiny, hick Kansas town. A few of the things I witnessed while working there:
- I saw a lady try and buy dogfood with food stamps.
- I saw a lady purchase two 16oz Pepsi bottles, and insist they be rung up seperately. Each one rung up for about $1.05, and she paid for each one with $2 in food stamps. She then took the change received back from each one and bought a pack of smokes.
- I can't tell you how many times people would try to buy beer with food stamps. The best part was when they'd get all pissed off when we wouldn't do it, and talk about how we couldn't tell them how to spend "their money".
Not to go Right Wing Facists on anyone, but I would guess than 9 times out of 10, people on food stamps don't have a history of making wise purchase decisions.
The post anonymously option you are [not] attempting to use is one that isn't available to your user.
Now, for those who are poor, honest, and ethical, I sympathize. But I live in a town that is overflowing with the poor who are basically lazy, dirty scumbags on welfare. They don't have jobs because they don't want jobs (or begging is easier). Trust me, I spend my time working those ass-end jobs, and it bugs the hell out of me that they make more money than I do.
The point of this is that they all have computers. Some of them even have better computers than I do, and I upgraded mine last year with a small chunk of my school loan. [I'm in Computer Programming, it was a requirement, really. =) ]
So yeah, I'm not sure what the situation is elsewhere, but expecting them to have computers to play games on isn't unrealistic, it's maybe a little jaded.
maybe they can listen...
Seriously, it is incredible the stuff people throw away. It wouldn't surprise me at all if 50% of 'broken' appliances just need a fuse, nobody has the faintest clue how to mend things these days.
The post anonymously option you are [not] attempting to use is one that isn't available to your user.
Genuine insight... How is your personal view on what constitutes "not being poor" insightful? It's not black & white: there are degrees of poverty. There was once a time when automobiles and computers didn't even exist. Did everyone qualify for being poor then? How about when all men lived in caves? Was everyone poor then? Maybe. But, for sure, some men had it better than others --- Ug Skullcrusher had 5 wives and an apple orchard. Duf Berrysearcher had no wife and spent 80 hrs a week scrounging for a couple of peanuts to eat. It's all relative.
With this new program, families will be able to buy their bread, milk & USDA cheese, as well as an upgrade to a BFG-9000.
They would have a better chance of getting a meswsage read by the poor where I live, if they printed it on rolling paper.
Dunno about that now...
Over here we draft no-one, and there's a childrens allowance segment to social security.
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
An ancient, supposedly anti-drugs edutainment title called Wrecked. Apparently the best way to teach kids about their dangers was throug the medium of a platform game in which they all appeared as power-ups. The demo's still floating around a few FTP sites out there, and is genuinely terrible. Best bit - after snuffing it, it tried scaring you by warning you how long you'd be in the clink for your stash. The old "Needed Them For Medicinal Purposes And Also Escaping From A Nightmarish Castle of Hell" defence apparently didn't hold much water with judges in the early 90s.
Post WarioWare, who knows?
At least, not primarily. There are more comprehensive programs for the "ultra poor". Food stamps are designed for the working poor: people who have jobs that don't pay them enough to live on. Essentially, it's a taxpayer subsidy of employers who refuse to pay their workers a liveable wage.
People on food stamps buying TVs and X-boxes is exactly the point of it: their employers don't have to pay them the actual wage the market demands, but they still have the income to buy stuff and keep the economy moving.
All's true that is mistrusted
One wonders why someone that can't afford food would have spent money on a computer on which to play these games.
You would be surprised. Although many households who are poor are doing the best they can, many more are run by foolish people. People who spend thousands every year on cigarettes, alcohol and porn off the internet. I live in a semi-rural area, but we have two downtown areas. One is surrounded mostly by young families, and the other by mostly welfare recipients. The poorer downtown area has trouble sustaining businesses, but there are a lot of pawn shops, and a lot of those shops are filled with cheap computers.
The fact is, there are a lot of people in poverty who do own computers. The old saying still holds true today "a fool and his money are soon parted"/
The bleeding hearts among you can now feel free to mod me down or rip me apart.
Ruby on Rails Screencast
The top five lessons I've learned from video games.
5. Sometimes, no matter how you turn something around, you just can't make it fit. (Tetris)
4. Sometimes, the only way to deal with an ambush is to walk right into it. (any 1st person shooter)
3. There's a difference between moving your feet rhythmically and dancing. (DDR)
2. Don't get worked up when your ride gets smoked. There's another great opportunity right around the corner, waiting for you to take it. (GTA3)
And, the most important lesson I've learned from video games:
1. Don't shoot the food. (Gauntlet.)
OK, I don't think I should even try to touch on that comment about affording food versus affording a gaming console/computer. I hope most realize how things work in this thing called reality. If you don't, go to a "bad" neighborhood and check things out for a while. Check out the inside of a project. My current theory after being a contractor for the Minneapolis Public Housing Authority for the past few months is the more DirecTV dishes on a house, the poorer the occupants. It really is strange. Not that I think liberties should be squelched, but no one should have a right to TV if they cannot even afford housing. Additionally, not to encourage piracy, but these dish-using people need to learn how to share if they must have them at all.
I am feeling fat and sassy
"One wonders why someone that can't afford food would have spent money on a computer on which to play these games."
One winter, I was making $900 a month at my current job. This meant that I could barely pay rent and buy food for myself. I was getting behind in payments on my credit cards and my financial situation was looking pretty dim. So, out of desperation, I got hired on to deliver phone books in my free time. I made $.15 for each phone book I delivered. Which, if you get everything organized, isn't terrible.
Anyways, delivering phone books will take you to all sorts of areas. Because every home needs a phone book. And you get to see all sorts of crazy things too when you are traveling house to house.
This one house I delivered to had a new car out front and a direct dish hanging off the roof. The house was one of these town home sort of deals in a poor area of town. Barely larger than a breadbox. And sitting on the front door of the house was a nice little note from the electric company that simply stated, he was losing power in the next week due to not paying his bill.
The thing that still gets me why the hell he had a damn dish when it was very likely he wasn't going to have the power to use it. And why he didn't save his money on the car to something with a slightly less monthly payment so that he could pay the electric bill. He was the only one in that situation either. I saw too many houses where the person had an extravagance or two when it was clear they weren't surviving.
Was it stupid of them? I'd have to agree. But some part of me during that winter kind of wished I had something nice for a change.
I hate comments like the above because it's clear that they don't understand the life of a person who is poor.
Star Pirates
You can't entirely blame them. Poor people do watch the most television, and what can you expect when you bombard people with several hours a day of messages saying "buy more crap, buy more crap". Poor people also tend to be less educated and to have poor parenting, so they have less resistance to that advertising.
Banning all subjective promotion, advertising, and packaging (essentially everything but price guides, business directories, some classifieds, some catalogues, and related stuff) would work wonders on getting the poor to spend money right. It would also benefit the rest of the country as people would base purchasing decisions on price and quality, not marketing, which would force manufacturers to raise quality or cut price.
TV and other media that rely on advertising could have their revenue streams replaced by eliminating (or at least gutting) copyright law, having the government pay per-eyeball to media companies, and having the government fund media [perhaps PBS style, perhaps using direct democracy - if people will vote about anything, it will be TV programming].
Here's what happens...
"The body cannot live without the mind."
"Whoa..."
I hear a lot of you talking like living in poverty is a terrible thing, and that the poor die a lot quicker... the reason for this is that they are making terrible decisions. Here are some handy tips:
Don't get knocked up at fifteen and you won't have to worry about feeding a child at sixteen.
You can fill out a job application if you can read.
Hanging out with drug dealers will get you shot, either by the drug dealer or the other drug dealer.
No one will hire you if you have an attitude that you don't need to work, or if you can't be bothered to show up for work, or if you can't speak the King's English.
Life is rough. There is no doubt. But you have to be competent to be hired. That is how the whole of civilization works.
Poverty and government assistance are there to get you back on your feet... they are not there to feed you for a lifetime. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people that think that living in the projects and not worrying about an education is an acceptable LIFETIME proposition.
Free education. What do you do with it? Nothing. Free food. Housing is $30 a month. Yes, you have nothing of your own. Yes, the place you live in stinks, and is full of drug dealers... but let I remind you that drug dealers don't work for a living either. They just threaten people and stand around. If everyone is bored and in each other's business, and no one can read or find a way to find a job, then you just have idiots stealing from each other.
Look, if you can't be forced to get your butt to work and get a job like the other 90% of humanity, then you only get JUST ENOUGH TO SURVIVE. You don't get to thrive for failing.
Sorry about the breaks.
No offense, but weren't food stamps originally billed on the argument that it's providing food to families who couldn't otherwise afford it? Instead, we're providing food to families who could afford it, but now can use the saved money on some luxuries.
Ignoring the obviously charged political debate about whether or not this is what our society should be doing, I still find it sad that our laws are justified using one reason, but when implemented embody an entirely different one.
No comment.
So far I've seen mostly comments about poverty. First I'll sumarize what i've seen commented so far about educational games themselves.
First, someone posted the link to http://lrnj.com/, which is a 2D role playing game, for learning japanese. I've tried this game. This game is a good idea. Unfortunately, the game started out too hard for it to be any fun (for me), since I know nothing about japanese yet, and really had no interest untill i got the game. If you have enought interest in japanese that you know a little bit of it already, i'm sure it's great.
Next, someone posted http://www.game-research.com/art_myths_of_gaming.a sp , which is a article basically saying that that educational aren't educational and aren't any fun. I see a few reasons for this.
#1 there have only been a few educational games made. If I was to take a small random sampling of all games (not just popular games, all games), I bet they would probably suck too. What's the odds of picking doom3 out of a list of thousands of games?
#2 People who make "educational" games, often will have other agendas that may interefere with the fun of the game. For example, people who have the desire for "games to be educational", are often the same people who will wish that "games were non-violent". Obviously a game could become bad quick by mixing agendas. Also, their other agenda may take priority over the educational content of the game. In other words, it's not educational games people have problems with, it's the people who are the type to make them, which people have problems with.
#3 High risk games, don't get large budgets. When have you seen a educational game with grpahics that competed with quake3 (or whatever was currently popular at the time of it's release)? never? That's because the majority of the work spent on a game is in the graphics/artwork...
hmm. I've talked long enough. Maybe I'll stop here. The short version is:
We need cheaper ways of aquiring good artwork.
Maybe I'll write this out more and post it as a article.
One wonders why someone that can't afford food would have spent money on a computer on which to play these games.
Yes, one often wonders, "why," but very rarely, "if".
`which fortune`
Raising taxes on the rich doesn't really help unless they're not being taxed at all.
As a child growing up on welfare, I realized that I had almost no incentive to work to better myself if what I had to look forward to is giving it all away.
One of the major driving forces in capitalism is people who want to improve their quality of life. If you remove the incentive for the average joe to greatly raise themselves, then the only people who will are those who are ludicrously wealthy, and overall everyone else tends to earn less. Thusly the gap is increased, the filthy rich may earn a little less but are still filthy rich (but produce fewer jobs since they're investing less), the middle class has no incentive to move up and have fewer jobs and earn less since the filthy rich are investing less, and the poor... Well, the poor don't really get much out either way except the satisfaction that the everyone with more money than them is getting screwed for having the audacity to want to improve themselves.
Frankly, reading the comments on this topic, I'm absolutely shocked at peoples' attitudes. From reading these threads 99.9999% of all posts are: 1) Well, poor people are dumb 2) It's their own fault 3) Everyone should have a computer! Why don't poor people have a computer!! This is terrible. It's no wonder that all the Socialist countries in the world are leaping ahead of us in the Arts, AND in technology. (Quick Question: Where was Linus from, anyone????) Frankly, I find the lack of sensitivity appalling.
There's been a lot of discussion here about whether or not poor people have PCs and if you have a PC you aren't poor, yadda, yadda, yadda... But those arguments aside, the idea of using games to educate is a good one, but the delivery vector could be better. It would be much better if this game pack were made for Playstation Ones rather than PCs because the target audience is more likely to have access to a PSOne than a PC. Not only that, they will be able to just drop it in and play.
/.'ers have at least one or two old Playstations sitting around gathering dust.
Now I know that making a Playstation game raises the costs and effort, but I thought that the point was to get the message across to people who need it. And it is likely that for this purpose Sony could be persuaded to waive the royalties and even provide development assistance. Heck, why not distribute donated PSOnes with the game too? I'm sure many
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
There is a hideously large number of people who spend so much on entertainment that they need to go on food stamps to eat. Making a video game as an instructional tool reflects this absurdly common liklihood. It's not that you don't have enough money, its that you can't spend it wisely.
thehomeland(.org)
Not my fault these people believe a fairy tale which won't allow them to use modern birth control mrthods. I don't mean to be a hard-ass but you should ALWAYS have a plan should your spouse/income provider fail to provide that income. Not my fault you are living beyond your means or decided to shit out that 3rd kid because "I've always wanted a big family and god will provide." God doesn't provide, the fucking american taxpayer provides...and just because you are from some 3rd world hellhole or your 'religion' tells you not to control the fruit of your loins, you better start now!
ok done ranting.
Blar.
Strange - where I come from, the phrase is "nerd rich". This supposedly means the person is also crap with their money but spends it on 19" flatscreens and the latest Radeons while wearing clothes with holes in them, not eating breakfast, etc.
$20K/year is plenty for one person to live on. Plenty for food, housing, and cheap transportation. A relative of mine, 5 years out of school, has paid off most college loans, bought a $180K house, two cars, a grand piano, and a sweet tv/surround system, and gotten married. Their combined income is about $40K/year before taxes. I can't imagine half that wouldn't be sufficient for just the basics.
moo
> buy kerrek a cold one
Unfortunately, the Kerrek is a tea-totaler and [I don't remember the rest, but it involves a severe head pounding].
Yes, I did waste too much time playing that thing...
Yes, surely they will have spent all their money on crack instead.
"One wonders why someone that can't afford food would have spent money on a computer on which to play these games."
In 1999 I was gainfully employed by a well known design house and type foundry. I did a lot of work from home. In 2000 the bottom fell out of the dotcom biz. I was unemployed and needed to support my wife and 2 children, So I applied for and recieved Unemployment benefits and Food Stamps. It kept me going until I got back on my feet.
So, I didn't buy a computer rather than having bought food. I posessed one already.
And another thing... That's what the food stamp program is there for, getting people back on thier feet. Granted, there's a lot of abuse, but when it's needed it should be used, without the sidelong sneers and disdain from people like yourself.
> Our society provides food stamps to help the
> hunger issue in the United States. Providing food
> stamps (for food) to the poor seems to be a
> reasonable way of helping - tax payers and
> administrators feel good (and approve)
Excuse me? I don't feel good about it, OR approve.
I work. I have worked since I was old enough to get a job. I have never been on welfare and I don't believe in welfare.
Food. Yeah, right. Maybe if they gave them just enough for basic (I mean BASIC) survival. My experience with welfare has been...
Family and (ex)friends who get food stamps try to sell them to me for pennies on the dollar. If you're kids are hungry why exactly do you have hundreds of dollars worth of stamps to sell?
And MANY times I have been in the checkout line at the supermarket with my cart full of generic cereal, generic pasta, whatever fruit happened to be on a really good sale and maybe some hamburger. (For the generic hamburger helper, of course.) My attention will be drawn to the person or persons in front of me, often because they have a level of ignorance and/or stupidity that is so powerful you can sense it. I note the items going up on the belt: Steak... Steak... More steak... Steak... A turkey... Steak... The "good" hot dogs... More steak... The cashier gives them the total, and they have to "get rid o some stuff" because they only have X amount of food stamps.
I work my ass off at LEAST forty hours a week every single week and eat cheap because I PAY FOR IT and value a paid off mortage more than a day at the grill.
These people who do NOTHING eat much better than I do and have all day to sit around and grill. Nice. Very nice.
I have changed my mind, not only do I approve of welfare I also have a good feeling about it. Thank you for showing me the light. I think I'll go celebrate with a nice big bowl of "Fruit Flavored O's" cereal.
know your foodchain - that is you, at the bottom.
Will Starvin Marvin make a guest appearance?
Sorry, I am so insensitive... I wonder if the GM companies will be sponsoring it? Hey kids, say hi to Cra-Z Carrot, he is your GM Friend.
GM is good. If you click 'I Agree' to the following statement, you can play level 2!
Hey kids, want to play level 3? You must promise to call us on this number, if you parents are members of an anti-GM group, and are planning a raid!
Thanks kids! I am not against GM, just the profiteering. OK you have to fund research. Does that make 99% of todays drug companies ethical in their funding exploits?
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
I take exception to the snickering masses coyly speculating on how the poor can afford computers but not food. Ignoring the fact the article (for those who read it) didn't reference food-stamp recipients, I would like to direct my remarks to the insensive clods with the purile and acerbic sense of humor posting demeaning comments.
In case you haven't noticed, a large percentage of professional nerds are currently battling unemployment or underemployment. My company has cut staff dramatically over the past couple of years. I have the good fortune to be employed, but many of my friends do not. Many of these are senior staff, with families and mortgages to pay, and if they were lucky they landed jobs at Walmart or the local gas-station. These are folks who had been making 70k and up.
They are hurting, financially, make no mistake about it. Yet, by and large, they still live in nice homes (that they worked 30 years to pay for!), and drive decent cars, if they haven't sold them to buy food. Most of them are tapping their retirement accounts to keep the mortgage paid. And yes, most of them have computers at home.
If I were unemployed, my computer and my internet connection would be among my most highly protected possessions? Why? Because that's my life-line to employment and prosperity. I can apply to jobs all over the country, craft and modify a professional resume, and generally conduct an efficient job search from my computer. I'd sell the car, books, furniture and just about everything else before I got rid of the computer, because once that's gone, hope is pretty hard to hang on to.
So, spare me your infantile insight and feeble sense of humor. There are numerous good, well-educated folks taking food stamps, running a desperate race for employment, and using their home computers as the tool they were designed to be.
One wonders why someone that can't afford food would have spent money on a computer on which to play these games.
/., to say nothing of many Slashdotters' technology-as-universal-panacea attitudes (like how I read the summary and said 'wait, there are people these days who don't have computers?'), the casual I-know-better contempt in the summary is galling.
Perhaps that someone wasn't always poor, you insensitive clod. Or they got a hand-me-down computer for free. Or perhaps they scrimped and saved in order to provide their children with what is, these days, a required educational tool.
Given the prevalence of tech-job-market-goes-to-hell stories and poor-college-student anecdotes on
You have probbily never played reader Rabbit or a host of other cool games that only ran off of 5.25 floppys. I remeber when i was in grade school and windows was not a product yet, We had games that were awesome entertainment and education. I forget the name of one but you had to run through a radio station and look for clues and zap badguys with a stun ray then answer their math quesitons. that game is better then most of the purly commercial games out there now. Ahh good times........
You write:
.1% of those on welfare are on as an alternative form of disaster relief) or because you're flat out lazy.
"That's just bullshit. There are plenty of people who are poor as hell who still have cars, so they can get to their crappy minimum wage jobs. Without a car, many people would flat out STARVE TO DEATH, and having a car is often more important to the super-poor than anything else. I know, I live near tons of them in East Oakland."
How did this poor people afford a car, afford the insurance that comes with it, afford the gas and maintenance that is inherent in ownership and still have enough money to get a computer?
Because they were once hard working people who decided to ham it. That's right, face the facts: If you're receiving welfare and you have a car, chances are you're either the victim of a natural disaster (less than
When I received food stamps it was because I was born into and decided at 19 that I didn't like the embarassment of paying for my 10 cans of 50 cent tuna-in-water with a Food Stamp. So I decided to get the 'crappy' job (as you call it above) and worked my way up from nothing to a decent income with a car, two kids and stability financially.
If a disaster were to take place, my insurance would cover it, and I would then get another job - even a 'crappy' job (I still don't get what's crappy about getting paid to do anything, bit I digress) - until I could find something better.
Bottom line, it is absurd to be distributing so-called "video games" which only dumbs down the welfare receptient by saying, "you're illiteracy is a roadblock to receiving your food stamps correctly." Well, you were literate enough to fill out the welfare form, you're literate enough to get off your ass and work at McDonalds until Outback Steakhouse has an opening.
Excerpted from the article:
"Players in the Price Makes Sense have to use their math skills to figure out the best food deal; for instance, that six servings of eggs at $1.20 is cheaper per serving than five servings of chicken at $2.00. "
I see. So it's Eggs for breakfast, lunch and dinner?
Good concept: Cowtow to the dairy industry - as usual - and make the insane and outright scientifically incorrect statment that eggs are more beneficial and cost effective than Chicken.
My friends, a pound of eggs cost about $2 more than a pound of chicken ANYWHERE. Go weigh a dozen eggs and figure it out.
that's easy...rent-to-own....that's how she can afford top-notch technological products while subsisting on the government dole.
I would rather spend my tax dollars on the poor, vs lasers mounted on air planes and unessicary missle defense sheilds. That serve no reasonable purpose than to increase defense lobbyist profits.
/ DE FENSE.pdf
http://www.time.com/time/classroom/glenfall2001
Perhaps it is merely a matter of us not doing them well yet.
I think the Civilization series is quite good as well as many of the SimCity style games. These games do not cover a topic in depth but they are good for getting kids to think in serious terms about the complexities of running a society or a city. It introduces important concepts and backs them with game play. Despotism is very good for military power but people get unhappy easy and economy and science suck, etc.
Many of the new games also have a history theme around WWII or the Civil War. While these games don't exactly cover the details or the sociopolitical causes, they familiarize the kids with the names of the generals and battles in very concrete way.
As far as the articles statement that we must prove "that games are better than other learning alternatives" I must disagree and say that educational games must be better than PacMan or Halo in educational value because they will be competing with video game time instead of school time. I don't think anyone has suggested that we dedicate time already designated for learning to playing video games, but merely that we capitalize on the time already being spent on video games to bring more value to the kids.
While important, feeding people is only keeping them alive...
It doesn't address the issue of keeping them safe
Good point. It's a lot easier to keep corpses safe than live human beings.
Not all of the 100 million being fed are in a war zone. What about those that are flooded out, have crop failure, are in extreme poverty, etc.
Please don't dismiss the importance of keeping 100 million people alive. If you're dying of starvation, food is your most important problem.
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
In San Francisco, you can now use food stamps to eat at certain fast food restaurants and they even wanted to start a program where you could order out and have hot food delivered.
Why? Electronic food stamp cards have replaced the actual stamps.
So now everyone wants to suck the money off the card accounts because it has become simple with no paper to have to redeem.
There's no way someone with food stamps can possibly make it through the month with these sorts of programs being pushed at them.
And this sort of thing was predicted by those who were opposed to going to the electronic card program.
They prevented food stamp owners from redeeming the stamps for useful goods such as toilet paper, then they put them in prison for selling them for cash, then they converted them to electronic cards so they can steal the money back by offering superfluous options.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
So you're saying if the tax rate for those making over $200,000 was, say, hiked 10%, as a child you would have had no motivation to "work to better yourself".
Also think about the phrase, maybe theres other facets to bettering yourself than making the most money possible at every given moment.
Either people understand the value of this, and how it helps people in unfortunate circumstances, and people who think that food stamps is just for the lazy stupid people.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I know a suprisingly many people who made 60+K a year that are now on food stamps. I am one of them.
"I don't currently do any volunteer work because my service to society right now is to make sure that my son grows up to be a responsible, productive person - but I will be returning to volunteer work when he is old enough that he doesn't need so much of my attention."
yes, and no one else who is on government assistance is in the same situation.
"(BTW, my husband became ill to the point where he couldn't work for a couple of years about 8 years ago - he never went on any kind of government-sponsored aid. It can be done.)"
Why not? You pay taxes don't you? So you would rather have your child live in hard ship, rather then take the time to go to the state and talk with a case worker what is available for you?
Tax payers like me, and yourself pay for that, and to not use it is a disservice to your family.
So, we should volunteer instead of look for work?
"It's just food stamps - who cares if I buy Cheetos?"
That is exactly why this kind of information should be spread around. If a game can help some learn this lesson, then it will save them money.
BTW, I just bought some cheetos.... they where 2 bags for a buck. A little something extra to go with there lunch. They're good kids and they deserve a snack.
I am still puzzled at why you think taking time away from work to volunteer wil magically have people make more money.
Jack Ass.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Economic development isn't the be all and end all of solving our problems. There are more deeper and fundamental problems that are in fact *global* in their scope. Rich countries exploit the poor countries to keep their countries rich when the under the rich become to expensive to maintain they 'outsource' to cheaper countries exploiting the differences in currency, product and services valu. Take a look at what the WTO (world trade orginization) has been doing lately with their trade agreements in the '3rd world' and the 'loans' they've been making expecting them to pay them back (when developing a country and a people will *always* be overbudget and most likely *at a loss* if the people themselves have not much in the way of skill or education).
As long as currency disparity exists between other countries and the trade values of foreign currencies are severely offbase and unfair, especially 'devleping' ones. Wwhich makes economic development a 'joke' when the trade discrepencies are so high to benefit the corporations/exploiters its ridiculous. Taking a look at human greed is all you need to know about why much of the '3rd world' is in the state it's in.
Also don't you think the these countries are responsible for a lot of their problems? Who keeps bringing kids into that world? Their own ignorance and shortsightedness is part of the problem as well.
Not have NO motivation, but lose a lot of motivation, yes.
(The fact that people who make a lot of money tend to reinvest it also factors in.)
That phrase was just the first thing I thought of. I'm sure there are better terms out there, but I won't nitpick semantics.
That's so off the wall I had to go check the date to make sure it wasn't April 1st.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Maybe we should get upper class people to stop deciding what people need to live?
It's been a long time.
Part of the reason so many hostile countries have sympathetic Governments to the US is the fact that the US has a large portion of th eworld by the balls. Without food aid, countries like Egypt would starve. their pop. exceeds their ability to feed it.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Progressive taxation isn't "one law for the rich". It's "Same law for everyone." Everyone pays a portion of their income in tax. We already have a gradation of income tax percentage, increasing as you make more money; skewing the percentages is hardly creating seperate laws.
Nowhere in that post is it advocated to do anything except change the relative taxation percentages.
The problem is, the very rich has a $0 net income. Their corporatiosn don't but they do. Honestly. I know a handfull of real millionares and they don't make a dime personally, but have tightly controlled corps. A luxury tax would tax these people more then any income tax. Max all luxury items liek sux's have a 40% feed the poor tax and you'll get more revenue then a 100% tax baracket for 150k +.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Why not take the SAFE way, the prudent way, as they do in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, France, Belgium, Canada, etc etc, and RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH.
gee tax $0 net income hmm... The rich are rich because they know how to dodge taxes legitimatly. How can you tax me if I make nothing and my corporation buys me a house? I can't give you 60% of the house so you must be SOL.
Thos ewho make 40k -100k shoulder most of the burden of social services whiel those who actually make 100k plus, evade liek crazy.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Playable version here.
There is an (unsupported) MS-Windows version as well, and I imagine that getting it to go under OS X would be a "./configure; make install".
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
"One wonders why someone that can't afford food would have spent money on a computer on which to play these games."
You obviously don't live in Southern California.
I find it amusing that someone pushing theft can act so high and mighty toward everyone else and spout ad hominem at every available opportunity, if you're a thief and you want people to support your lifestyle and chosen habits, so be it, but the least you could do is not make assumptions about other people and their opinions.
r k http://www.nationmaster.com/country/da
I've opted out of the corporate mousewheel myself for a year just because I got sick of it, I was entitled to, though did not draw, because of my disgust at the supporting structure, a welfare cheque from my government during that time. That is not to say I don't think they should be available, but the very articles you cite in your references speak volumes as to the utter inefficiency and chaos of certain European style welfare systems, pigs eating each other in slaughterhouses waiting for transportation, no access to basic goods and services such as food and water, an entire collapse of basic social structure. Are you really promoting this approach?
You're citing prosperous welfare states as your evidence that the system works, but you're comparing it against arguably the most fascist and least free capitalist state in the world, your own articles from third world traveller cite the mythic proportions of assumed American prosperity which just don't pan out under the microscope, what about comparisons between your vaunted European welfare states and other more free, less government controlled, less taxed societies, ironically in the same geographic area.
Switzerland http://www.nationmaster.com/country/sz
vs
Denma
I don't pretend to know all the answers, I am not certain that if tommorow all government restrictions on capitalism were done away with we would be living in Adam Smith's utopia, but I do know if you go all the way the other way, you end up in Stalin's utopia.
Based on that, I think it's relatively safe to say a healthy balance of theft from the population to support the shiftless or disengaged and allowing people to profit from the fruits of their labour is likely the best course to a healthy society.
Cheers
Eric
...but I have a memory in my head of a young couple walking along Baltimore Parade, Merriwa, just near Tenby Close one evening a few months back. They were dressed in ragged clothes, and I'm not talking trendily ragged here. Worn-out op-shop stuff, including their shoes. They did not look like they ate well at all.
He, however, was carrying a new mobile 'phone, with the red, white and blue flashing LEDs in the keypad lighting up his face in coruscating sequence as he walked and talked.
Nothing like getting your priorities straight, is there?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
As for Atheists, their attitude is usually "kill the kid" - and what did the child do to deserve that? Selfish bastards! Shame on the lot of you!
Did I miss anyone? Oh, my karma? It's over there in that fireplace. (-:
My karma's been jammed against the stops for months. I get asked to moderate about every day or two (including today). I figure that a little karma incineration won't go astray.
Browsing at -1 sometimes does turn up interesting stuff.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Sorry if it ruins the tone of the post, but I now have (stuck in my head) this mental image of a rabid pineapple breaking out of someone's pants and lunging at passers-by. Thank you ever so much.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Perhaps you misread this. It appears that they are using them at centers where people go to learn how to manage their health and money, NOT at home.
"The program is being distributed to employees in Michigan's extension offices who teach food aid recipients how to be efficient shoppers. So far, they seem to like it better than the usual brochures and charts, said Gayle Coleman, the extension service's interim state program leader for family consumer science."
If we had better schools and people were better readers there would probably be less need for this!
...that I, like everyone else, will act in my own economic interest. If the police cannot protect my rightfully owned property, I shall defend it using violence. I bet I can afford alot of bullets!
Blar.
Because poor people are always poor and couldn't have bought a computer when they had a little bit of money, say before the tech bubble busted.
You know, I tend not to believe economic analysis from someone who can't spell 'corporation'.
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Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
(I read with sigs off.)
Becuase this parent post really depresses me. You're right, grandparent poster, I am just beginning to forget the pangs of hunger and the hopelessness of some of the times bygone. 600$ is a hell of a lot. that's 300 hours at 2$/hr.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
BTW, that's not a rhetorical question, but if you are American, you may interpret it that way. Since you seem to like Marx, I guess you've never lived in a marxist state or you are keeping your private utopia a secret from the rest of us.
If you must moderate, please moderate as irrelevent, not something bad, because I'm sure someone will find this interest
There is no safety, period. You aren't safe now, and you never will be.
Liberty requires vigilance, but vigilance does not cause liberty.
-----------------------
You are what you think.
Because it doesn't work, adopt the swiss model, it appears to have the fewest flaws currently comparitive to any other world government in existence.
Flirting with the concept of forcing others to support your lifestyle is guarunteed to backfire on you, it's only a question of when, this applies to so called "leftists" and their ilk as much as it does to right wing government subsidy lobbying special interest groups.
If you steal from someone you will make them angry.
If they make a combined income of about $40K/year, they wouldn't fall under $20 for join filers.
You're leaving out the three most important things to consider when discussing salaries- location, location, and location. i'd like to see your 40,000/yr (pre tax, probly ~32,000 net) relative try to make it while paying NYC rent/mortgage @ 2000/month. Actually, a $180,000 mortgage should be around $1800/month anyway. sooo...
:)
(1800/month house)+(200/month 1st car payment)+(100/month 2nd car payment)+(50/month A/V bill)+(300/month food bill)+(50/month electric bill)=30000/yr.
and that's off the top of my head. what do you consider "just the basics"?
You know how to keep two trombonists in tune?
Shoot one of 'em
To me, a 2nd car (depending on where you live, perhaps also a 1st car!), any A/V budget, and any rent/mortgage above 500/month (where I live in MN) is already WELL BEYOND the basics.
Just my 2 cents...
moo