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Disney Goes Boom!

BoomZilla writes "Reading Disney's alliteratively titled Practically Perfect Pyrotechnics introduces the latest in firework launch technology. Gone are the 'light blue touch paper and retire a safe distance' days. Shells are now launched using compressed air. No burning black powder means no smoke drifting over the residential neighborhoods, plus a safer show. Best of all the new system is more precise and can launch shells higher than black powder, enabling spectacular new effects. An additional article: The future of theme park fireworks covers some of the pros and cons of compressed air launch systems." We mentioned this earlier.

198 comments

  1. Full of hot air by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...just like Disney.

  2. Looks Great, Less Smogging by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I'm not sure the launch charge contributes too much smoke, as I've found the charge which distributes the firework to create more -- usually evidenced by a series of greyish clouds carried away by higher winds. Grand Finales have had so much smoke at heights to obscure some of the fireworks themselves. Then there's the matter of where I live having a chronic fog/marine layer problem which has rendered the most fantastic displays only so many noisy, colorful blurs. Even they cute smiley ones, like the mouse pattern Disney is so fond of.

    The air in the Los Angeles/San Bernardino area can be pretty awful, which probably has a lot more to do with their efforts to decrease smoke. I visited the Grand Canyon years ago and heard sometimes the visibility, in the summer is so poor you can't see across the canyon, thanks to smog from San Diego and Los Angeles/San Bernardino, hundreds of miles to the west. (Fortunately I was there in winter, which I highly recommend (South Rim open only), with 200+ miles of visibility.)

    A word of advice: Try to avoid a down-wind position for fireworks as sulpherous ash may drift down into your eyes and it burns like H2S.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Looks Great, Less Smogging by cbelt3 · · Score: 1

      Agreed- The advances that Disney has either driven or inspired involving the use of compressed air/water 'charges' are another example of improved controllability. The 'singing waters' fountains made so popular are also cases in point. Now if I can take that 'stomp rocket' that my kids use, and duct tape a little C-4 to the top of it- cool !

    2. Re:Looks Great, Less Smogging by RWerp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So what? The worst environmental hazard connected to fireworks are elements like barium needed to make those colorful flames. This Disney technology won't change it.

      --
      "Long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." (John Maynard Keynes)
    3. Re:Looks Great, Less Smogging by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      and it burns like H2S

      Or onions.

    4. Re:Looks Great, Less Smogging by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

      That "smog" at the Grand Canyon is called an inversion layer. It's not coming from California, that's just plain ridiculous.

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    5. Re:Looks Great, Less Smogging by MacGod · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure the launch charge contributes too much smoke, as I've found the charge which distributes the firework to create more -- usually evidenced by a series of greyish clouds carried away by higher winds.

      But, you see, that's just it. The higher-up smoke is blown away by winds. The launch smoke tends to linger more as it's lower and thus less influenced by the wind. Also, it tends to linger where there are people-the higher smoke doesn't get in people's lungs.

      Not that this is better for the environment or anything, but in terms of nearby people, the ground smoke is much worse.

      --
      "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
    6. Re:Looks Great, Less Smogging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Now if I can take that 'stomp rocket' that my kids use, and duct tape a little C-4 to the top of it- cool !

      Excuse me, there's a man from the Department of Homeland Defense outside to see you.

  3. As long as the boom is still there... by ianbnet · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm pretty excited about eventually seeing one of these shows in action. I don't think I'll miss the smoke of the rockets, as integral as that might be to a traditional show.

    As long as the big boys still make that oh-so-satisfying "BOOM" when they go off, I'll be thrilled as ever.

    --
    --------------------- -me, Crusher of those who are Foolish (don't be foolish)
    1. Re:As long as the boom is still there... by Tired_Blood · · Score: 1

      As long as the big boys still make that oh-so-satisfying "BOOM" when they go off, I'll be thrilled as ever.

      I assume you're referring to the high flying ones, but how about the ones that explode like 100ft up? The ones that evoke an applause from all the parked cars.
      In some twisted way, I actually look forward to that orchestra of car alarms typically heard after the fireworks finale (when they usually schedule the 2-minute low-altitude bombardment).

      Now that I think about it, the organizers probably do that on purpose.

      --
      This is not my sig.
  4. Change is Bad! Very Bad! by Carnildo · · Score: 4, Funny

    No burning black powder means no smoke drifting over the residential neighborhoods, plus a safer show. Best of all the new system is more precise and can launch shells higher than black powder, enabling spectacular new effects.

    But I like watching the billows of smoke drifting across the river! And if the fireworks go any higher, I won't be able to watch them from my computer desk! They'll be blocked by the balcony of the apartment above mine!

    --
    "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
  5. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  6. Argh! by oGMo · · Score: 4, Funny
    Disney Goes Boom!

    You get my hopes up, then no chapter 11. :-(

    --

    Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage

    1. Re:Argh! by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Informative
      You get my hopes up, then no chapter 11. :-(

      Thanks to Michaels Cooking the books and some finagling they had a pretty good looking quarter, last report, mostly due to the theme parks. They've been hemoraging cash on movies though, which should warm your heart.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Argh! by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 4, Funny
      They've been hemoraging cash on movies though

      But now, they save money on the cost of matches!

  7. Wait... by still_sick · · Score: 4, Funny

    We still hate Disney, right?

    Or do we like them now? Or do we like thier fireworks - but feel immediately compelled to qualify that statement with BUT DISNEY STILL SUCKS...

    I'm so confused.

    --
    ...Also, I didn't know Buggalo could fly.
    1. Re:Wait... by LinuxInDallas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Considering that they have decided to donate the patents on this invention to a non-profit group I would say that we should all like/respect Disney at least a tad. That's a great move.

    2. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm so confused.

      That's because you're a mindless sheep who needs others to tell you what to think. Get your head out of your ass.

    3. Re:Wait... by Metallic+Matty · · Score: 1

      Before you start fellating Disney for their kindness; keep in mind they get a nice tax write off for it.

    4. Re:Wait... by xenlab · · Score: 1

      And they're gave $5,000 each to employees that lost property in Hurricane Charley. Not a loan or anything... A friend of my mom's got one of them.

      I respect them for that.

      --
      - my girlfriend can beat up your girlfriend.
    5. Re:Wait... by The_K4 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Was that "non-profit group" the disney movie studios? They arn't making any profit.....:)

    6. Re:Wait... by still_sick · · Score: 1

      That's because you're a mindless sheep who needs others to tell you what to think. Get your head out of your ass.

      So, you're saying what, now?

      We DO still hate Disney?

      Thanks, Bro!

      --
      ...Also, I didn't know Buggalo could fly.
    7. Re:Wait... by julesh · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, they've got patents on launching stuff out of a tube by pumping compressed air into it?

      Prior art?

    8. Re:Wait... by hesiod · · Score: 1

      > We still hate Disney, right?

      Isn't it a pain in the arse when someone we don't like does something good? I guess it just goes to show that not all things are Black & White.

      Wait, what am I saying?!?! DISNEY IS EVIL!!! There has to be some ulterior motive in this! Hmmmm... Perhaps Disney is saving money by moving to an air launcher. Makes sense, since air is infinitely cheaper than gunpowder (although the compressor is not). Yeah, that must be it...

  8. Beer-can mortars anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I know Im not the only kid who did this, the best ones were with a propane air mixture and a spark plug to ignite the gas electrically.

    1. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 5, Funny
      Oh yeah. The old-style beer cans were perfect tennis ball size. What's really cool is soaking the tennis ball with lighter fluid first. About 1/2 the time, it comes out on fire.

      When it goes all the way down the street, and rolls under a neighbors car, still on fire...the decision to go get it or run is a tough one.
      (don't ask how I know this)

    2. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by RPI+Geek · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My potato guns use a customized ignition like what you're describing. The guns themselves are PVC, and the ignition is a camera flash circuit wired through a car ignition coil, which goes into a spark plug. Hairspray shoots the potatoes a good 150 yards if you wedge them in there enough.

      Slightly more on-topic though, a friend of mine has a real nice compressed air potato gun that has an electronically triggered poppet valve. Despite the fact that his gun cost much more and is so much more complex, mine shoots more rapidly, farther, and louder. They both get a nice cloud of smoke out the barrel after the shot though. His because of the rapid decompression, and mine because of the burning hairspray. Surprisingly, we have mutual respect for each other's designs and we don't really compete with each other so much as help with design and construction problems.

      My next gun will be compressed air, and once I figure it out with PVC, I'm moving on to stainless steel to hopefully get a supersonic potato (or other projectile) gun :-)

      --

      - "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
    3. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by RWerp · · Score: 1

      My next gun will be compressed air, and once I figure it out with PVC, I'm moving on to stainless steel to hopefully get a supersonic potato (or other projectile) gun :-)

      "The right to bear arms..." --- does it say anything on potatoes?

      --
      "Long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." (John Maynard Keynes)
    4. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by nigelc · · Score: 1
      Atually, the BATF (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, what more do you need?) explicitly do not classify a potato cannon as a firearm requiring a license. Here's some kid's copy of the standard letter but the meat of the matter is this:

      The Bureau has previously examined devices known as "Spud Guns, Potato Guns, or Spudzookas" and have determined that such devices, in and of themselves, are not firearms as defined in Title 18 United States Code (U.S.C.), Chapter 44, S 921(a)(3) or 26 U.S.C., Chapter 53, S 5845.
      --


      Cthulhu Barata Nikto
    5. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by Forbman · · Score: 1

      Nah, we just used the old tennis ball cans that the balls came in. Tape 3 or 4 of those cans together, and you really did have a cannon, instead of a tennis ball mortar.

    6. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by mnewton32 · · Score: 1

      I'm not about to argue with your source, but this section of the US Code seems to include "any destructive device." They go on to describe a destructive device as "any weapon...which will...expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter."
      Sounds like a potato gun to me...

    7. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by Zirnike · · Score: 1
      Be careful, though... for example, in Massachusetts, potato guns using hairspray are considered firearms (as they use an ignited material, or something)*. Last I heard (and don't take my word for it even if you're here), a compressed air gun is legal without a licence.

      I prefer to consider the BAFT a Department, rather than a Bureau, don't you?

      * and as it's a custom firearm, it might require a higher class licence, even, but I'm not sure about that.

      --
      I'm not shy, I'm stalking my prey
    8. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by louden+obscure · · Score: 1

      the ignition is a camera flash circuit wired through a car ignition coil, which goes into a spark plug. Hairspray shoots the potatoes a good 150 yards if you wedge them in there enough.

      a few notes from my son's spud gun construction. hairspray or WD-40. hairspray (aquanet seems to the best) tends to gum up the works after a few launches. WD-40, while less effective for distance cleans up the residue. ignition system is a piezo-electric grill ignitor deally. his barrel-rim is filed to a knife-edge so as the spud is rammed down the barrel it is shaped to the pipe diameter. i'm sure there quite a few home owners in his old neighborhood puzzled by roof gutters clogged by potatoes...
      --
      Serenity now, insanity later.
    9. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by Cyno01 · · Score: 1

      Better yet, fill the tennis balls with matchheads...

      --
      "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
    10. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by RPI+Geek · · Score: 1

      Hairspray gummed up the works while I used a bolt-to-bolt spark gap. Now that I have a spark plug, it's not a problem (plus I wash it down after every session). Also, the flash circuit generates 300V that goes through an ignition coil that's only supposed to have 12v... so who knows how many volts that has at the spark plug? It's more than enough to break through any residue that the hairspray leaves on the plug.

      --

      - "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
    11. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by RPI+Geek · · Score: 1

      Then again, it's not illegal if you don't get caught, right?

      --

      - "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
    12. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I prefer to consider the BAFT a Department, rather than a Bureau, don't you?

      Let's deconstruct that, shall we? BATF= Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. Do you think that constitutes a bureau. I do. Of course, it's now consolidated within the Department of Homeland Security, so it might be a little more of a peon with less independant authority, but a shitload more firepower.

      Oh, and local authorities hold the definition of what is a "dangerous device". Look at fireworks laws. It's considered a sort of a situational decision.
    13. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try a VERY light shot of butane (gas lighter juice). It can be hard to get the air mix right, but shit, does it shoot a spud. WAY more powerful than WD (WD is a wierd one, all you are really shooting is the propane that is used for the propellant, I don't think the actual WD juice is even flamable) or Hairspray, and once you get the mix right, it ignites much better if using an electronic ignition system (ie BBQ ignitor). Spend the three bucks, and give it a whirl, your spuds will thank you, although your neighbours may not! Also, for more compression, file the end of your spud cannon the OPPOSITE way (ie, carve out the inside of the barrel, not the outside), so that the knife angle is INSIDE the tube \ / vs / \. This causes the spud to start out slightly oversized, so your seal is much more gas tight.

    14. Re:Beer-can mortars anyone? by Zirnike · · Score: 1
      If you're going to be an idiot and try to flame me for you missing the blatently obvious bad joke, at least have the common curtesy to log in so I can foe you.

      Hint: The DEPARTMENT of Alcohol, Firearms, and Tobacco has a slightly different acronym.

      --
      I'm not shy, I'm stalking my prey
  9. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by Private+Taco · · Score: 5, Funny

    Perhaps Disney would give you some of their leftover black powder pyrotechnics and you could take care of that upper balcony.

    --
    If I could, I'd destroy you all.
  10. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by QuantumRiff · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No powder used to lift the shell, means much more explosive powder that can be used in the shell. If you used 25% of the weight of the shell to lift it before, (I'm making numbers up.. anyone know the real numbers, please correct me) then now you can have a 25% bigger boom.. (roughly).. which makes me happy, i like to see big explosions..

    --

    What are we going to do tonight Brain?
  11. What? They use Bluetooth? by YouHaveSnail · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is it really true that they use Bluetooth for shell detonation? I thought the range was limited. And it seems rather expensive compared to fuses. But I guess it's Disney... :-)

    1. Re:What? They use Bluetooth? by Honor · · Score: 1

      I don't know, but it doesn't seem likely to me. It would be a stupid idea for other reasons then money - seems to me it would be a very attractive opportunity for hackers! Just imagine, a warehouse full of them going off in the warehouse...

    2. Re:What? They use Bluetooth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      a warehouse full of shells blowing up inside of an even larger warehouse? Interesting.

    3. Re:What? They use Bluetooth? by owlstead · · Score: 1

      Didn't you hear? Since they can launch everything more safely now, somebody runs along all firework launchers with a turned on bluetooth mobile phone.

  12. Dupe, but a funny one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Well, since the article is a self-admitted dupe, we may as well repost the funniest comment from last time around too.
    "What's the fun in fireworks if there's no boom when they're shot?"

    The celebration of freedom will now instead contain the Looney Tunes sound of "FWOOMP!"

    Which tragicomically seems a good fit, given the world today.
  13. Re:boom by ramsac · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    *i am trying to spread this on for everyone to use

  14. odd timing on this... by wintermute1000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I just find it amusing that Disney released all this news about their revolutionary, wonderful new launch system and then proceeded to roll out a new pyrotechnic show at Disneyland that, by all accounts, is disappointing at best compared to the one it replaced. Sure, it may be less polluting, but it's also a lot less fun.

    Sure, there are other factors that caused the switch in shows, but the timing was unfortunate. They basically managed to associate environmentally friendly fireworks with totally boring fireworks, which, by an inspection of their description of the new launch technique, really isn't the case at all.

    1. Re:odd timing on this... by DustMagnet · · Score: 1
      I don't know much about this other than an article I read a few weeks back, but I think it's possible they are starting carefully (I would). If things work as well as expected, they'll probably gradually increase the quality of the show.

      That said, the fireworks I saw at Butchart Gardens are so amazing I can't do them justice.

      --
      'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
  15. I imagine... by JoeShmoe950 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I imagine someone in a location where fireworks are legal could rig up a poor mans version using something similar to a Potato Cannon (the pneumatic type).

    1. Re:I imagine... by That's+Unpossible! · · Score: 5, Funny

      I imagine someone in a location where fireworks are legal could rig up a poor mans version using something similar to a Potato Cannon (the pneumatic type).

      Correct. These are the same people you read about in the Darwin Awards.

      --
      Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
    2. Re:I imagine... by Mr.roboto · · Score: 1

      probably, but most pneumatic potato guns are fired with a rain bird solenoid valve used in sprinkler systems. Very easy to use remotely, heck wrig you computer up to set em off =)

      --
      Don't call my crazy, that's what they called me back in the home!
    3. Re:I imagine... by switcha · · Score: 2, Funny
      ...could rig up a poor mans version using something similar to a Potato Cannon

      To be followed immediately by the blind and fingerless mans version.

      --
      You know what? ... A little club soda *did* get that out!
    4. Re:I imagine... by JoeShmoe950 · · Score: 1

      I don't get how you think this all means death. First off, many people launch potato cannons, and unless you look down the barrel, not much is going to hurt you. Added fireworks, its still safer than the same person launching one normally (no fire during liftoff). And as someone pointed out, it wouldn't be incredibly hard to rig it up electronically. Nothing with fire and bang will ever be 100% if you DIY, but its still probably safer than just shooting it off normally...

    5. Re:I imagine... by Anixamander · · Score: 1

      ...could rig up a poor mans version using something similar to a Potato Cannon

      To be followed immediately by the blind and fingerless mans version.


      I think I finally understand where Burning Man got its name.

      --
      Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball(TM)
  16. With high explosives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pyrotechnics are done with black powder, which is a low explosive.

    1. Re:With high explosives? by darth_MALL · · Score: 1

      Not when they're launched 200 feet up in the air =)

  17. OLD NEWS!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I read the first few words I was thinking, I have read this before, nit sure if it was or on the sightseeting area of www.firingsquad.com but here's an old link about this samwe thing.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/thisweek/st ory/0,12 977,1078149,00.html

  18. Re:Too Easy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you here all week? And should we try the veal?

  19. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by Carnildo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Fireworks are launched by a classic blackpowder mortar system: there's a lofting charge in the launch tube (basically, a bag of gunpowder), and the shell (usually consisting of a bursting charge, a number of "stars", and filler to give it a spherical shape). Changing the lofting mechanism from gunpowder to compressed air won't make a bit of difference for the shell.

    --
    "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
  20. What if.... by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 2, Funny

    What if I'm allergic to the air that will spread to the residential area ??

    --
    This is the sig that says NI (again)
  21. Does Eisner know about this...??? by COBOLgrrl · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the article: The air-launch technology is such a revolutionary step forward that Disney has decided to share it with the pyrotechnics industry as a whole. The Walt Disney Company plans to donate the seven patents produced for the air-launch process to a non-profit group that will license the technology to the rest of the pyrotechnics industry. Cool article, shocking conclusion. Must now re-evaluate opinion of Disney...

    1. Re:Does Eisner know about this...??? by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 1

      Hang on, by licensing the technology, no matter if free or not means that the company has to have Disney on the books somewhere.

      Whether or not money is involved, its still a business exposure.

      Or am I just being too cynical?

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
  22. Re:Too Easy... by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 3, Funny
    And should we try the veal?

    Skip the veal. Go for the fish.

  23. Fireworks... let me think... by Lac · · Score: 3, Funny

    Fireworks shmireworks. I find this Disney merchandise much more worthy of my undivided attention. Oh well... Priorities, I guess.

    1. Re:Fireworks... let me think... by cyberworm · · Score: 1

      dude, that's sweet! My 8yr old girlfriend will love that...

      Oh wait.. is this public.

      damn.

    2. Re:Fireworks... let me think... by the_denman · · Score: 1

      and what would walt think of that?

  24. INteresting fact by geekoid · · Score: 2, Informative

    LA has half the pollution and four time more cars then it had in 1970's.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:INteresting fact by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My understanding was that LA has had smog since before the invention of the automobile, due to the geography of the valley.

      Supposedly it had smog from campfires when it was inhabited by native Americans.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    2. Re:INteresting fact by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      I'd hate to have seen it in the 70's then. LA and Houston rate as the world's biggest shitholes I've had the misfortune to be around. LA wins the contest hands down on the smog issue. I see the damn smog from LA from 100's of miles away on a fairly frequent basis. Nasty.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    3. Re:INteresting fact by Ricdude · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, the days of poop brown skies that was LA in the '70's...

      It really has improved since then. Most days, you can see from one side of the basin to the other now. Back then, it was a toos up. And the sky did have that eerie tint to it.

      Oh, and actually, Houston has worse air pollution than LA now. One of Bush's other great accomplishments as Governor...

      --
      How's my programming? Call 1-800-DEV-NULL
    4. Re:INteresting fact by narsiman · · Score: 1

      "It was then that I learned that computers were built to make money, not minds." Gary Kildall

      There comes a time in every geeks like this realization. Around that time you feel like a whore with the pimp walking away with all the money - but you 'experience'd pleasure. The saner ones decide to move into management and become a PHB. The geeks stay and bitch more.

      Earlier the realization the better is your life.

  25. aww.... by CatDogLordOfTheRoot · · Score: 1

    No burning black powder


    Is it just me or is it not lighting fireworks without the gunpowder smell and the soot all over your hands?

    --
    ---------
    In the end we are ALL disconnected....
    1. Re:aww.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup... my family was in the fireworks business for years. I grew up selling class C fireworks, working crowd control, and explaining the process to people. Sometimes I miss those days. Nothing takes me back like going to a show and getting to smell the black powder.

    2. Re:aww.... by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      Is it just me or is it not lighting fireworks without the gunpowder smell and the soot all over your hands?

      It also ideally needs to be a bitterly cold, clear night, there should be a really massive bonfire, and little kids should be writing their names in the air with sparklers.

      And the Catherine wheel must get stuck against the fence-post and splutter lamely to a halt.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  26. Slashdot is not a hive-mind by That's+Unpossible! · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Obligatory response pointing out that Slashdot is comprised of many people, some of which like Disney, some of which don't.

    One thing we all agree on, though, is that the "Do we hate ________ today?" joke is fucking tired.

    Sincerely,

    TU

    --
    Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
    1. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by Mike+Hawk · · Score: 3, Funny

      So do we hate "Do we hate X today" jokes today or not?

    2. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obligatory response pointing out that Slashdot is comprised of many people, some of which like Disney, some of which don't.

      You're new here, aren't you...

    3. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by back_pages · · Score: 3, Funny
      Obligatory response pointing out that Slashdot is comprised of many people, some of which like "Do we hate _______ today?" jokes, some of which don't.

      Obligatory response pointing out that Slashdot is comprised of many people, some of which like recursive jokes, some of which don't.

      Well that ought to wrap that up. Move along.

    4. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know you're joking but my "something we all agree on..." was tongue-in-cheek. ;-)

    5. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see. I guess it was a little too dry - I wasn't sure if that was a self-referential joke or if you were leaving it open for another.

    6. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm...

      Do we hate Do we hate Do we hate Do we hate Do we hate Do we hate Do we hate Do we hate Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted. today? today? today? today? today? today? today? today?

      Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted.

      I surely hate that.

    7. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Slashdot is not a hive-mind

      We agree, we are not a hive-mind. We thank you for your observation.

    8. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by DavidBrown · · Score: 1

      One thing we all agree on, though, is that the "Do we hate ________ today?" joke is fucking tired.

      Interestingly enough, that's exactly what Natalie Portman was telling me the other day, as she was poured hot grits into my pants.

      The amazing this is this: Disney does everything for profit. We know this. So, Disney's plan must be:

      1. Invent new fireworks launching tech and donate it to charity.
      2. ???
      3. Profit!

      --
      144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
    9. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by DavidBrown · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I had meant to say "...as she poured hot grits into my pants, not "...as she was poured hot grits into my pants.

      I am truly sorry, but as you can see, I was distracted.

      --
      144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
    10. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by PsiPsiStar · · Score: 1

      So do we hate "Do we hate X today" jokes today or not?

      "Yes. Yes we all do. " ... said the collective voice

      --

      ___
      It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
    11. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      Obligatory response pointing out the Slashdot is comprised of many people, some of whom like iterative jokes, some of whom don't.

    12. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obligatory response pointing out the Slashdot is comprised of many people, some of whom like iterative jokes, some of whom don't. This exact comment has already been posted. Try to be more original...

      /. doesn't like recursive jokes.

    13. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      It has? Where?

    14. Re:Slashdot is not a hive-mind by damien_kane · · Score: 1

      But... how could she be pouring hot grits into your pants if she was naked and petrified like she should be?

  27. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by jnaujok · · Score: 5, Informative

    A typical 8" shell weighs about 3 pounds, of which about 1 ounce is the lift charge. Most of the weight comes from the shell casing (pressed glued paper) that holds the burst charge and the stars and keeps them together long enough for the stars to ignite when the timing fuse burns through to the burst charge. Disney is probably using 4" shells for most of their stuff, so figure a pound of shell with a tablespoon of lift charge.

    For reference, the largest shell ever fired (the 36" Fat Man) weighed 800 pounds and was lifted 1400 feet in the air by 1/2 pound of black powder.

    --
    Life, the Universe, and Everything... in my image.
  28. Re:So you know it's a dupe... by Ianing · · Score: 1

    Because the extra links at the end inform better then the orignal.

  29. The Smallest Revolution by Mulletproof · · Score: 1

    "Gone are the 'light blue touch paper and retire a safe distance' days.

    You go ahead and stand next to the mortar if you want, but there are plenty of other ways for that round to cook off prematurally, not to mention what'll happen if a compressed air hose (enough to send a hefty shell 200+ feet into the air) bursts. Sure, the accident ratio will probably drop dramatically, but I'll keep my distance just the same.

    Besides, normal ignition techniques will still be around for some time to come, if only because it's loads cheaper to fuse the bad boy than to lug around an expensive high performance compressor and the marginally more complex fusing in the shell itself.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
    1. Re:The Smallest Revolution by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      When it comes to professional fireworks they've been set off electronically at a distant for a long time anyway.

    2. Re:The Smallest Revolution by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      s/distant/distance/
      # That's what I get for not previewing.

  30. old news twice over by mrn121 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I read this article the first time, I emailed it to a friend of mine who works in the Pyrotechnics division at Disney World, and he replied saying that he didn't know what prompted them to write that article when they did -- Disney has been using that technology for several years now. Oh well, I guess old news is still news. Maybe it was just a slow news day the first time /. had that article, and an even slower news day this time...

    1. Re:old news twice over by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 1

      I wonder if this news story has been released as a (forgive me) smokescreen to cover the bad press about the changes to this years firework show.

      In the article, they describe using this year as a "test-run" for next years big birthday.

      A poster earlier in the discussion mentioned something about this years show as being disappointing at best (http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12026 0&cid=10133401)

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    2. Re:old news twice over by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I remember a talk on this (maybe informal) back at the PGI http://www.pgi.org/ convention in the mid 90-s. Talk was about including nitrocellulose casings (to reduce ash fallout) and RFID-like fuses in the shells for burst timing and ignition. A cap would be charged and time delays set via the touchless link.

      I just assumed it's been that way for a while, and suprised that this hit as "news".

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  31. old news? by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 1

    I could of swore a few years ago a friend told me about alternative rocket launching abilities. She lived in some hot desert place in America (Texas maybe..) and said they used compressed air or something similar to launch rockets because black power was too dangerous in the heat.

    Why does it matter if Mickey mouse is now doing it? I was under the impression people at Slashdot were beyond Disney's target audience..

    --
    I like muppets.
    1. Re:old news? by land · · Score: 1

      You are aware that the shells use black powder, too, right?

      How would it be that black powder is too dangerous to lift the shells, but OK in the shells themselves?

    2. Re:old news? by BCW2 · · Score: 1

      Some of us still have our inner child. We're not all old farts. I even have a sense of humor.

      Quit taking life so seriously, you won't survive it.

      --
      Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
    3. Re:old news? by hesiod · · Score: 1

      > How would it be that black powder is too dangerous to lift the shells, but OK in the shells themselves?

      Because the powder in the shells is not (normally) ignited at ground level.

  32. Saw it July 4th, first day they revealed it. by The+Panther! · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I took my wife and kids to Disneyland in Anaheim to check out the display. I have some video of it that isn't quite ready for web display (or should I say, I'm too busy :-), but suffice it to say it's a different show. They actually had two displays on July 4th, with slightly different timings and effects.

    After seeing the same sort of fireworks for decades, I think it was more interesting than the old fire up and go boom. The most noticeable change is they can do much higher quality synchronized launches. One effect (a little overused) fired off a bunch of streamers in sequence at different angles, and because the flaming bits are not powered after launch, they have a nice regular parabolic trajectory. Nice effect.

    However, they have a great Grand Finale either way. It's also nice to know my $150 worth of tickets went to something donated to the public (patents).

    --
    Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
    1. Re:Saw it July 4th, first day they revealed it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was not donated to the public. It was donated to a "non-profit" which will charge the public if they want to use the tech.

      Who is drawing a salary from that non-profit?

  33. From matchlock, to airgun, to railgun? by flamingspinach · · Score: 1

    Practically Perfect Pyrotechnics? In practice, it's probably even more imperfect than it looks on paper. >_> Now what they should really do is create railgun launchers for fireworks. Apparently the USA military is already in the process of developing missile launcher technology based on the electromagnetic railgun - an civilian applications would be both profitable and fun! >:) -fs

  34. and they open-sourced it! by Blue+Lang · · Score: 1

    bottom of the article says they donated all the patents to an NPO for relicensing. that's.. unusually cool of them.

    --
    i browse at -1 because they're funnier than you are.
    1. Re:and they open-sourced it! by hesiod · · Score: 1

      > they donated all the patents to an NPO for relicensing

      There is a serious disconnect between your title and the content. Donating something to a NPO is a far cry from open-sourcing it. Relicensing (to me) implies that there may still be a fee to use the patented technology, just that the license money for the patent goes to a NPO. I wonder what the purpose of that organization is.

  35. we've had these for years by Mr.roboto · · Score: 1

    it's called pneumatic potato guns, a hillbilly's delight if you will. www.xinventions.com

    --
    Don't call my crazy, that's what they called me back in the home!
  36. LIES, LIES, LIES by Commander+Trollco · · Score: 1
    You haven't ever been to Southern California, have you?

    The Los Angeles basin does not have appreciable smog, except when the Santa Anas kick in, and even then it is just a thin brown layer. Certainly not a major impact on visibility. And this marine layer you speak of has this tendency to, say, BURN OFF from ~~10am, without returning normally until early morning, typically after most displays are finished.

    Next fallacy. Can't see across the Grand Canyon? This Grand Canyon that is separated from any smog source by hundreds of miles? Yeah, right, all of Orange County sends its fog to the Grand Canyon, without any dispersion.

    "Sulpherous[sic] ash may drift into your eyes". The only ash, or solid product of a gunpowder shell, comes from the paper+glue casing. The (minimal) amount of Sulphur in gunpowder is converted mostly to Sulphur Dioxide, a gas.

    You made all of this up, didn't you?

    --
    http://persianews.on.nimp.org/?u=Tar_Baby
    1. Re:LIES, LIES, LIES by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      Next fallacy. Can't see across the Grand Canyon? This Grand Canyon that is separated from any smog source by hundreds of miles? Yeah, right, all of Orange County sends its fog to the Grand Canyon, without any dispersion.

      You haven't been to the Grand Canyon on a high-smog day, have you? True, you can usually see across the canyon itself, but you can't look down the length of it, and side canyons may be obscured.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    2. Re:LIES, LIES, LIES by smclean · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The Los Angeles basin isn't what the poster was referring to IMO, but east Los Angeles, and San Bernadino. Have you ever been out to Ontario or Riverside at 3pm on a stagnant July afternoon? I lived in Ontario for 2 years, and I'm not surprised in the least at the fact that San Bernadino county has the worst smog in the United States. Driving out there from Los Angeles in the summer, every single day you could see a thick blanket of black smog hovering above Pomona.

      --

      "'Yrch!' said Legolas, falling into his own tongue."

    3. Re:LIES, LIES, LIES by el-spectre · · Score: 1

      Sure, it may be smoggy, but blaming this on LA is pretty farfetched... the smog will dissipate in the hundreds of miles of desert between the two... hell, it's not smoggy in the desert 50 miles from LA.

      That said, the guy above was either joking or trolling... I recently climbed a nearby mountain, and you could see the smog band pretty distinctly...

      --
      "Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
    4. Re:LIES, LIES, LIES by digitac · · Score: 1

      This was true in the mid 90's when I was growing up, and going to school out there. We used to have a lot of smog alerts and some days you couldn't see the nearby mountians. It's really gotten a lot better, I don't recall seeing a smog alert in recent years, much less a higher level one. The the progress that has been made in recent memory can continue, then hopefully smog will be something we complain about because of the very sensitive meters and not because we can see it. ::Digitac

    5. Re:LIES, LIES, LIES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live on the coastline in North San Diego County, and let me tell you - the marine layer burn off by 10am you refer to can only be relied upon in mid to late summer. The rest of the time, count on being socked in. Sometimes I think it's like living in the Seattle area... just without the pesky wetness.

    6. Re:LIES, LIES, LIES by smclean · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I lived out there in 1998, having moved there from North LA county, it was quite bad. I seem to remember smog alerts, though I wasn't particularly attentive of such things. I just went out to Fontana not too long ago and it really wasn't that bad, but I had assumed it was just a fluke. Why is it getting better? Was all the pollution before the result of industrial pollution? Because surely there are more cars on the road.

      --

      "'Yrch!' said Legolas, falling into his own tongue."

    7. Re:LIES, LIES, LIES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm, you're pretty wrong there. I've lived in Orange, Orange County for nearly two years now. You should try standing on Tustin Ave. on any windless summer day and look north to where the mountains are. If you can see any thing more than a hazy mass in the distance then you must have some kind of eagle vision.

    8. Re:LIES, LIES, LIES by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Up till a month ago I worked in Rancho Cucamonga (just north of Ontario). I don't remeber any days where there were smog alerts (1999-2004). Though, I do remember plenty of days where I couldn't see the mountains through the smog, and I was only about 5 miles south of Mt. Baldy. Driving down from Apple Valley, I was often horrified that I would have to breate that crap for the next 9 hours or so. The Inland Empire area has some really nasty smog in the summer months.

      --
      Necessity is the mother of invention.
      Laziness is the father.
    9. Re:LIES, LIES, LIES by Forbman · · Score: 1

      Well, I've been to Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, and it can be smoggy enough when the wind is blowing from the west to bring in enough haze to barely see Palm Springs from Views Point, let alone the Salton Sea, etc.

      On a clear day, you can see mtns in mexico from there.

      On the days that the marine layer is strong, sure, it does burn off by 10am-noon, but by the time the sun is setting it is coming back in.

      In a complete combustion reaction, sure, what you speak of should in theory be inert. But we're talking real-world chemistry here. Like all explosives, there will probably be unburnt residue on any remaining particles to cause said effects described.

      Have you ever burned sparklers? There is left over residue on the metal stick. This is probably similar to what falls out of the air, and I will bet a large amount of money that the reactants are not fully consumed by the reaction.

    10. Re:LIES, LIES, LIES by TarlCabbot · · Score: 0

      It was much worse when Kaiser Steel was running (early 1980's?) The sky was purple. I had family in the high desert, and in the evenings you could see the smog come over Cajon Pass.

    11. Re:LIES, LIES, LIES by shadowbearer · · Score: 1


      Most of that smog is the by-product from power facilities in Utah.

      Edward Abbey wrote about that in his book Desert Solitaire; he first observed it more than thirty years ago.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
  37. Hmm, compressed air plus explosives... by snarkasaurus · · Score: 1

    I'm thinking there's just something about that combination that sounds so wrong.

    1. Re:Hmm, compressed air plus explosives... by hesiod · · Score: 1

      > I'm thinking there's just something about that combination that sounds so wrong.

      Is the combination of a large, fiery explosion launching explosives more comforting than (practically? IANAPhysicist) inert air launching them?

  38. Like others... by Caraig · · Score: 1

    ...I found the title sadly misleading. No Chapter 11 bankruptcy for Disney. ;_;

    However, that being said... even though Disney is still an evil corporation and amongst the most evil, this is a nice gesture on their part to make the compressed-air technology available to everyone.

    What I'd like to know, however, is why they didn't release it into the public domain? Then again, this is Disney; they abhor the public domain, so it oprobably stands to reason that they wouldn't dare touch that prospect.

    --
    "I am an Adept of Tantric VAX."
    1. Re:Like others... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Then again, this is Disney; they abhor the public domain, so it oprobably stands to reason that they wouldn't dare touch that prospect.

      Not necessarily so. They open-sourced their Panda3D game engine, used most notably for their game Toontown Online.

      Here's a bit from their FAQ:
      Panda3D was originally developed at the Disney VR Studio. Disney VR used a proprietary IRIX-specific system called DWD (Disney's World Designer) to create several DisneyQuest Virtual Reality Attractions, such as "Aladdin's Magic Carpet VR Adventure", "Hercules in the Underworld", and "Pirates of the Caribbean: Battle for the Buccaneer Gold", between 1997 and 2000. In 2000, Disney VR embarked on the Toontown Online project, and decided to build a new engine that contained many of the DWD design principles, but would be more modular, so it could be ported to more platforms, and more easily change over time. The new engine was dubbed "Panda3D", ostensibly standing for "Platform Agnostic Networked Display Architecture".

      In 2002, Disney VR decided to make the engine open source, so they could more easily work with universities (such as UNC) on Virtual Reality research projects. However, the system, although quite usable by the team that developed it, was not quite "open source ready". There were several interested users, but building and installing the system was incredibly complex, and there was little in the way of documentation or sample code, so there was really no significant open source community right away.

      In 2003, Jesse Schell left the VR Studio (on good terms, he claims) to join the faculty of the Carnegie Mellon Entertainment Technology Center. The ETC was looking for something like Panda3D -- a 3D engine powerful enough to create compelling experiences, but also open and flexible. Since then, ETC students have been working to make Panda3D usable at the ETC and by the world at large.

    2. Re:Like others... by Caraig · · Score: 1

      Really! That's pretty cool. Thanks for the info!

      --
      "I am an Adept of Tantric VAX."
    3. Re:Like others... by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      1) "Disney goes Boom," not "Disney Goes Bust."

      2) They released the technology to a non-profit organization which makes the information available to all fireworks shows interested. Maybe not the public domain, but pretty close to it.

  39. Black smoke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Having watched the fireworks from the 7 story parking garage across the street from Disneyland I can say there is still a lot of black smoke. And it doesn't help that Fantasmic ends with fireworks 10 minutes before the main event. Thank god I don't live around there.

  40. Naa... by cbreaker · · Score: 1

    It would have been great if they didn't patent it at all. You'll likely still have to pay this non-profit (which means shit BTW) group to use it.

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
  41. Re:So you know it's a dupe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Update the original story then.

  42. Yes my fellow Americans by Dishwasha · · Score: 1

    It has been confirmed that the evil terrorist state known as Disneyland does have the means to produce weapons of mass combustion.

    1. Re:Yes my fellow Americans by rlafflick · · Score: 1

      bomb the fsck out of them

  43. Black powder has its advantages by seanscottrogers · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The one thing I did like about black powder is the ability for controlled burns, allowing a much slower ascent for fireworks which light up on the way up. I don't think that's possible with this technique.

    1. Re:Black powder has its advantages by ARRRLovin · · Score: 0

      Yes it is, they use electronically timed fuses now. They gained a lot of precision with the new technology. Having seen it just 2 nights ago, the synchronization of the explosions with the music was near perfect.

      --
      -Randy
  44. Disney is losing. by tepples · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They've been hemoraging cash on movies though

    Darn right:

    • Disney has shut down its cel animation studios and switched to a CG format (ever noticed how Mickey and Minnie tilt their heads down when facing the camera?), under a misguided belief about how the Pixar co-productions beat Disney's recent cel-animated productions at the box office. Disney will already be bleeding by the time its animation division realizes that Pixar's movies had a plot.
    • Pixar has only two movies left with Disney, titled The Incredibles and Cars. Once these complete their theatrical and home-video runs, Disney will be bleeding even more.
    • Disney relies on its back catalog for revenue. Watch Disney start bleeding again in 2023 when the Supreme Court invokes three strikes (hinted at in the Eldred opinion) against the Chastity Bono Act and a revamped Mickey Mouse joins the supporting cast in other animation studios' films. (Trademark law potentially bars other studios from casting Mickey in a leading role.)
  45. Government funded? by loqi · · Score: 1

    I remember hearing something about the Department of Energy giving Disney a big fat grant for brighter fireworks... I wonder if this is related?

    --
    If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
  46. Some Clarifications - And More Info by mistermund · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's some additional info that the articles don't mention.

    The WDI spokeswoman says "Disney isn't sure when its Central Florida theme parks could install or start testing the new fireworks launch system."
    Actually, the air-launched fireworks are not completely new, but Disneyland is the first time they're using air for the whole (or majority of the) show. The first use was at Epcot down at Walt Disney World for the Illuminations: Reflections of Earth show - where the first "comet" effect that screams over the lagoon is air-launched from on top of one of the pavilion buildings. If you're walking in that area around 15 minutes before the show starts, they rope off the main pathway that passes under the launch area. You do hear a big fwoosh when it goes off. The last time this bit made Slashdot, some comments were debating the gas used - in this case they're compressing plain air.

    The new Wishes fireworks show which has been playing since last Fall at the Magic Kingdom at WDW also planned to use the air launch, but the cost of the installation was too much and traditional fireworks have been used. Unlike WDW where there's a sizable land buffer between residences and the parks, Disneyland has large neighborhoods of people surrounding it, and they exert pressure on the local government to make things more difficult (and expensive) for Disneyland. Wishes also introduces the concept of firing shells from within the park off buildings in Fantasyland, which makes for some spectacular effects if you're watching from back in that area.

    Also related, Disney is working with a top national lab on fireworks that look just like normal pyro, but burn with much less smoke. While some shows use the smoke the fireworks produce for great effect, eliminating it could be nice for others. Another technology that has been slowly introduced is the use of shells that contain a sacrificial computer chip that syncs its timing upon launch and fires an electronic fuse when up in the air to obtain much more precise ignition timing than could be accomplished conventionally.

    Overall, there's some very cool tech going on, but whether Disney chooses to use it all over the place is more of a question of practicality than simply because they have it, so it's good to hear they're donating some of the tech.

  47. Damn, Title Misleading by Merlinium · · Score: 2, Funny

    I was hoping that Disney actually did go boom, and blowed the hell up. After RTFA, I find out its just some nonsense about fireworks and how to make them go higher.

    paux on you, I curse thee, for raising our hopes then dashing them on trivial crap.
    May the fleas from a 1000 camel infest your armpits.

    --
    If firefighters fight fire and crime fighters fight crime, what do Freedom fighters fight?
  48. adios tink by mmmmmhotpants · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now with improved accuracy Tinkerbell becomes a more formidable target.

    --

    can't sleep. clowns will eat me.
    1. Re:adios tink by goldmeer · · Score: 1

      I understand that the purist following is upset because in the lastest version Tinkerbell shoots first.....

  49. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    and filler to give it a spherical shape

    There are two major types of Class B fireworks in the world: the spherical (mostly Asian made) and the cylindrical (mostly American/European made). The Asian style uses a pre-fabricated hard casing so that filler is unnecessary for the shape of the shell; filler is used mostly for keeping the shell balanced in flight and to keep the stars spread out (helps with the nice round bursts). The American style uses a soft paper casing around a cardboard form. This is then wrapped with string and paper mache. The filler is required to stop the casing and form from collapsing when it is strung and glued.

  50. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The thing about air lifting a charge farther is complete and utter bullshit.

    Most of the LARGE shells use under an ounce of powder to lift them 300+ feet. That's not alot to lift an 8lb projectile that high.

    Seriously, you could put as much in the tube as you thought would leave the tube and the mortar intact... The only probelm is you'll put it up WAY too high to be enjoyable. Air dosen't make a lick of difference.

  51. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by anubi · · Score: 1
    You bring up a very intereting point about more boom.

    I wonder how this boom is going to affect all the stucco houses in the area?

    Once the stucco is fractured, water gets in, and the stucco rapidly deteriorates.

    I've often wondered if a homeowner close by one of these venues which emit loud booms like this can hold the emitter of those booms responsible for damage to their house.

    Of course, actually proving the monetary damage to your house may be as much of an inexact science of proving monetary damage from people making mp3's out of the CD's they bought.

    --
    "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

  52. Boom? by OYAHHH · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't "Swooosh" be more appropriate?

    --
    Caution: Contents under pressure
  53. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by Wild+Bill+TX · · Score: 1

    Who needs to see real fireworks? Just use xfireworks. They're even more environmentally friendly!

  54. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by StrangeTikiGod · · Score: 1

    Bear in mind, however, that Disneyland has been launching fireworks from their property from pretty much all of their nearly-50 year history. In 1955, the area was far from being a densely residential zone. I can see homeowners from 1955 having a case against the park, but people who've moved in since that time knew exactly what they were buying...a house/condo near a theme park renowned for its fireworks displays. You'll forgive me if I don't have any sympathy for attempts to collect damages from an issue they undoubtedly knew about since the house was first placed on the market. Whether you feel the Mouse is a 800-lb. gorilla or not, you've got to concede this would be a pretty frivolous lawsuit.

    --
    "split the clouds and divide the sea and show those evil guys how nasty the Tiki gods can be."
  55. There was supposed to be... by Vombatus · · Score: 3, Funny

    an earth shattering KABOOM!!

    --
    This sig is intentionally blank
  56. Forget the Fireworks by jatic · · Score: 5, Funny

    Who cares about the fireworks. Just think how far one of those compressors could launch a potatoe! This also presents an alternative to traditional guns. Forget plastic bullets, now you can kill/knockout your enemys with enviromentally friendly, biodegradable food staples. Where can I get one?

    1. Re:Forget the Fireworks by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      Haha, well grab yourself an airtank. make sure there is no pressure. change the filler nozzle extend the hose.(you dont want to have to hold the bleeding tank. and apply a thick walled pvc pipe roughly 3" -> 6" long. add a relief valve. put on an adapter to go from a 1/2" ID tube to a 2 1/2" ID.

      Fill tank with air. Insert potato launch

      Wash, rinse, repeat

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
  57. "Practically Perfect" by The+Fun+Guy · · Score: 2, Informative

    This refers, of course, to Mary Poppins, who was "Practically Perfect in Every Way", as anyone who has seen the movie will recall. Those of you with kids and a VCR, who have seen the damn movie at least 400 fricken times already and never want to see another dancing penguin for the rest of your fricken lives, will no doubt catch the reference right away.

    And no, you can't watch "Hercules" either. Go read a book, for cryin' out loud.

    --
    The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
  58. Checks receipt from ESPNZone... by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 1

    ... hmm, carry the one...

    Yup, we still hate Disney.

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  59. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by anubi · · Score: 1
    I was referring to the change and what appears to be a continual increase in shockwave power.

    Otherwise I feel the argument that I cannot sue for damaging my house is just as pointless as saying RIAA cannot sue people for using computers because they knew computers were around when they released their music.

    If RIAA can sue people who use their computers in such a way as to damage their property, what happens if I find out that increasing the shockwave power is be damaging to mine.

    Yes, Disney has been in business for some time.

    So has been the ability to copy files.

    Should our courts protect one man's property while telling another to buzz off?

    There was quite a flak about deleting the words "Under God" from our pledge of allegiance. If everyone's property is not considered under the law, maybe we should delete "and equal justice for all" from the pledge.

    --
    "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

  60. New explosives for Disney by Big+Bob+the+Finder · · Score: 4, Informative
    While the compressed gas systems won't change the toxics used in the shells, this will. (Look for the bit at the bottom on "Better Holidays through Chemistry.")

    Some of the new high nitrogen explosives are well suited to this application.

    It will be difficult to replace all of the colors produced by metals and other compounds used in fireworks- some of which are quite toxic (strontium, cadmium, arsenic, antimony, PVC plastic, etc.). It will also be much more expensive. But high nitrogen explosives and newer organic compounds have a lot to offer the field- including colors you can't get with the old standbys.

    Some of the high nitrogen stuff I used to work with was pretty interesting. Lots of newer, potentially safer compounds are in the pipeline- mainly for military applications, but they can be bastardized to, er, recreational purposes.

  61. Supersonic potatoes by rcw-home · · Score: 1
    My next gun will be compressed air, and once I figure it out with PVC, I'm moving on to stainless steel to hopefully get a supersonic potato (or other projectile) gun :-)

    I've been idly investigating this myself. It looks like there are high-pressure solenoid valves available that are commonly used in hydraulic systems and Nitrous Oxide applications. They have ratings as high as 4500 PSI. The larger ones can be very expensive, but for a reasonable application such as this one, one might be able to keep the valve's cost around $100ish.

    It would take a fairly expensive compressor to get the air to that pressure, though.

    And no, I haven't done the calculations on the pressure and barrel lengths required to get a potato supersonic yet. :)

    1. Re:Supersonic potatoes by Zirnike · · Score: 1
      You'll have to take this with a grain of salt... I'm a mechanical engineer, and I studied thermodynamics (read: nozzle calculations among other things), but it's been years since I was involved in that aspect of things (I'm more into mechanical components)

      Now that the qualifier is done... It's going to be hard to get a potato gun supersonic. First, according to the calculations, getting supersonic flow out of compressed air requires a converging/diverging nozzle*. Subsonicly, as the tube diameter decreases, pressure and speed increase. Supersonically (and bizzarly), tube diameter must increase for speed to increase.

      If there's no nozzle, you can get supersonic projectiles** (and my experiance doesn't exactly include calculations with obstructions), but with a compressed air gun, you tend to have a large air tank connected to a small diameter barrel (so pressure doesn't drop off linearly). That junction between large tank and small tube looks like a nozzle.

      Basically, what I recall happens is a shockwave forms, kind of like an internal sonic boom. The shockwave causes the flow to stagnate (if you can call 'only doing the speed of sound' stagnating). Mach 1 always occurs (if it ever will) at the smallest diameter of the c/d nozzle, the 'neck'.

      I'm going to have to look up the equations again.***

      * Assuming you don't feel like adding/subtracting heat, anyway.
      ** well, I'm guessing... and considering some firearms have supersonic projectiles, I'm figuring it's a good guess.
      *** This is probably WAY too much information, but here.

      --
      I'm not shy, I'm stalking my prey
    2. Re:Supersonic potatoes by RPI+Geek · · Score: 1

      Pshaw, you don't need to spend that much.

      If you use a poppet valve and a cheap solenoid valve you can get better results, this is what my friend uses. If you don't know, a poppet valve holds itself shut with the air pressure in the chamber, and when you release the pressure behind it, the larger volume of air in front of it pushes it out of the way, and then rushes into the barrel, projecting the potato out very quickly. The seals around the valve don't need to be very good because it only needs to work for a fraction of a second, but the seal on the barrel does need to be good.

      --

      - "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
    3. Re:Supersonic potatoes by RPI+Geek · · Score: 1

      I'm a mechanical engineering student myself, and I already realize a lot of what you're saying, but keep in mind that the speed of sound changes along with a change in pressure. Thermo/fluids wasn't my strong suit, but I think that it's possible to make it go supersonic by just using enough pressure. Think about this: an explosive supersonic projectile is nothing more than REALLY high pressure gasses (with different properties, but still...)

      Anyways, when I make my steel cannon, I'm going to use somewhere in the multiple hundreds of PSI to get that kind of speed, and it's going to be a small "tabletop" model. I'll post in my ./ journal when I get it made and tested. :-)

      --

      - "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
    4. Re:Supersonic potatoes by Zirnike · · Score: 1
      "but keep in mind that the speed of sound changes along with a change in pressure"

      That's what I thought, but not according to this...

      You also might not want to shoot actual potatos, unless you're looking to make hash browns at mach 2. Very little structural stability, a potato has. :)

      I know that projectiles can go supersonic, I just am missing how the calculations work for it. Must have to do with the lack of unrestricted flow... If you're still in school, how about asking a prof? All the MEs I know lean toward the dynamics/vibrations/material science end of the spectrum.

      --
      I'm not shy, I'm stalking my prey
    5. Re:Supersonic potatoes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason bullets can be propelled faster than the speed of sound, is that the speed of sound increases with temperature. The speed of the projectile is still lower than the speed of sound in the hot propelling gas. To achieve supersonic speed in a potato cannon, you need to use combustion. This has been done with the hybrid cannon design. Some pictures hare here. More infor can be found on the Spudgun Technology Center Forums (registration required) At these speeds, a spud is reduced to juice and starch.

    6. Re:Supersonic potatoes by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      I'm a mechanical engineering student myself, and I already realize a lot of what you're saying, but keep in mind that the speed of sound changes along with a change in pressure. Thermo/fluids wasn't my strong suit, but I think that it's possible to make it go supersonic by just using enough pressure. Think about this: an explosive supersonic projectile is nothing more than REALLY high pressure gasses (with different properties, but still...)

      Speed of sound does change not much with pressure, but significantly with temperature. In a rifle, you have pretty hot gases which leads to a higher speed of sound.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    7. Re:Supersonic potatoes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you listen to the guy who wins the "punkin chunkin" contest every year, he says that using hundreds of lbs of pressure do not give him any better results than using 40 or 50 lbs. I think the theory is that the extra pressure just gets expended out the end of the barrel, as the projectile has long since left. And I doubt your barrel length will help, as these yahoos use barrels that are 40 - 80 FEET long.

  62. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by Long-EZ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...people who've moved in since that time knew exactly what they were buying...a house/condo near a theme park renowned for its fireworks displays

    There is a big difference between what's right, and the results of the US legal system.

    Example: Small airports were built all over the country. Decades later, the land around them was made into housing developments. Then people sued to have the noisy airports restricted to the point they were no longer viable, or shut down altogether. They consistently win, because there are 100 irate homeowners vs. 30 people who want to preserve the pre-existing airport. Bye-bye airport. The ultimate irony is when the runway becomes the main street through the new subdivision that's built where the airport was, and all the subdivision streets have names like Blue Sky Place and Lindbergh Drive.

    It's similar to developers leveling a beautiful stand of trees to pack as many little vinyl houses as possible into a congested suburban hell, and naming the subdivision Aspen Acres. I guess Fugly Houses Estates doesn't sound very good.

    Maybe I'm getting even more cynical in my old age, but there seem to be fewer and fewer instances where Right and Reality coincide.

    --
    >> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
  63. Calvin and Hobbes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Disney may go 'Boom' but "Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink'"

  64. Disney went boom first... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bummer, I was hoping Eisner would spontaneously explode first.

  65. Well by cubicledrone · · Score: 2, Funny

    At least they're doing something. After firing 250 animators, literally and arrogantly destroying their entire (irreplaceable) animation department (after some 80 years) claiming "2D animation is dead," (despite the fact there are over 400 animation studios in Japan) canceling a multi-billion dollar deal with Pixar and then, with a straight face, claiming "we can't make money on Monday Night Football," I suppose replacing the fireworks show tubes is quite an accomplishment for a $46 billion company.

    --
    Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
  66. I, for one, am very, very bummed. by Bob+Bitchen · · Score: 1

    This beats my tennis-ball-cannon by a longshot. It doesn't use black powder either but I don't get that height. I guess I will have to switch from lighter fluid to compressed air and see what that does for the height.

    --
    http://tinyurl.com/3t236
  67. No Lies by ackthpt · · Score: 1
    Sure, it may be smoggy, but blaming this on LA is pretty farfetched...

    No, there's a funneling action which channels the CO and Ozone, among other gasses, towards northern Arizona. Various sources of information on this can be found with a simple Google

    the smog will dissipate in the hundreds of miles of desert between the two... hell, it's not smoggy in the desert 50 miles from LA.

    Perhaps your desert is lower elevation. I've been to Death Valley before and thought visibility was just fine. There's a great display, though, along the South Rim of the Grand Canyon which shows the view across the canyon on a high smog day and in the photo you can't see the North Rim. Keep in mind, too, that the South Rim is about 8,000 ft el. Where do you expect disipation to go?

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  68. Of course... by brain007 · · Score: 1

    ...it's going boom. There's a big ass hurricane with Disney in it's sights *AGAIN* Another week without power... *sigh*

  69. Fiction by ackthpt · · Score: 1
    You haven't ever been to Southern California, have you?

    Yes I have. As used to clean air coming in off the ocean where I live I could easily smell the stink of smog inside a hotel in downtown LA, even after it had gone through air conditioning. That was only a few years ago. A couple years ago I drove down to Long Beach and remember driving past a lot of smokestacks along the San Diego Fwy and couldn't even see the sky, but it was pretty colorful.

    And this marine layer you speak of has this tendency to, say, BURN OFF from ~~10am, without returning normally until early morning, typically after most displays are finished.

    Where I live it can last all day and into the next. There's no rule on it's behavior and forecasters are frequently pariahs to even suggest they can predict burn off. Microclimates can contribute to this, too, as I drove from clear to dense fog to light marine layer in a distance of 40 miles this morning.

    Next fallacy. Can't see across the Grand Canyon? This Grand Canyon that is separated from any smog source by hundreds of miles? Yeah, right, all of Orange County sends its fog to the Grand Canyon, without any dispersion.

    Don't belive me then. See what comes up with simple Google.

    "Sulpherous[sic] ash may drift into your eyes". The only ash, or solid product of a gunpowder shell, comes from the paper+glue casing. The (minimal) amount of Sulphur in gunpowder is converted mostly to Sulphur Dioxide, a gas.

    I've had this crap land in my eyes and it was hardly from the casing, which is mostly cardboard and lands all over the place in much larger pieces. Tiny, hard pieces of sulphur compounds are the non-gaseous remains of firework combustion as sulphur is one of the primary ingredients in most common fireworks. You should consider doing some actual research on fireworks.

    You made all of this up, didn't you?

    All real life experience. I assume you live in a bunker and get all your information from video games.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Fiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you on crack? I live at the Grand canyon and there is no smog. You sir are an idiot.

  70. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where is the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom!

  71. Source? by sbszine · · Score: 1

    LA has half the pollution and four time more cars then it had in 1970's.

    Sounds a bit counter-intuitive, unless the cars & fuel have improved a huge amount in the last thirty years (which may be the case). Got a source for this?

    --

    Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling

    1. Re:Source? by Grab · · Score: 1

      Yep. All modern car emissions are *so* far down on what they were. Another amusing fact - because of that, it's no longer possible to kill yourself by gassing yourself with car exhaust. When auto manufacturers put in catalysts and electronic control modules, there was a noticeable drop in suicide rates.

      Grab.

    2. Re:Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Care to try that live on a web cam so we can be sure?

      Since CO is still deadly, and CO is still produced, I would hazard a serious bet that you would end up pink and cold after running your car in your garage.

      But seriously, there is 50 bucks in it for you to try it live on the web. Please post URL.

    3. Re:Source? by villoks · · Score: 1

      With all due respect, that's very dangerous bullshit. The killing element in car exhaust is CO (carbon monoxide), which is not totally removed by a catalysator . Yes, the amount is reducted (typically about 80-90%) but there's still plenty enough to kill you if you use the engine in a closed space.

    4. Re:Source? by eXtro · · Score: 1

      Not true. A relative of mine "accidently" did herself in with a relatively new vehicle.

  72. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by TheUglyAmerican · · Score: 1

    Whoa is that right? Good thing I'm not in the business. My intuition was telling me it would take at least 10 lbs of black powder to launch an average size shell. I wouldn't have survived the R&D.

    --
    "Written on the pages is the answer to the never ending story..."
  73. Non-profit doesn't necessarily mean good by jesterzog · · Score: 1

    Considering that they have decided to donate the patents on this invention to a non-profit group I would say that we should all like/respect Disney at least a tad. That's a great move.

    It may be, but I'd want a bit more information about the details before making such an assumption. If they were donating the techniques to the public domain, then it'd probably b okay to assume it's a good thing.

    The Business Software Alliance is a non-profit group, but that doesn't necessarily make it "good" in any way... at least as accepted by Slashdot readers for whatever that's worth.

    One of the articles states that Disney hasn't yet decided who to give the patents to. For all we know, it might be a dummy organisation set up by Disney and its partners to protect Disney's interests. Or it could easily be the opposite, which would be great.

  74. poor showing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have had the pleasure of shooting with Disneyland's head pyro on a few occasions and discussing this system with her.

    The up side is cleaner, less noisy, and more repeatable launches.

    The down side is no thump of the lift, and because the pneumatic guns are reloaded and expensive, there are only a few guns. This leads to most of the show only having a few shells in the air at any given time, and a slight delay between being able to put up another shell. IIRC, they use a few traditional guns to get the finally up. In short, there is a connection between the new pneumatic system and the slower / weaker show.

    It should be noted also that they have been working on developing this for many years. There was a fatal accident involving some product from an early version of this system that some blame on the sensitive triggers used to start the time delay fuses on pneumatic launch.

  75. Re:Terrorist "state" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You meant: Terrorist "county" didn't you :-)

    Actually Walt Disney World (Florida) is county in the State of Florida. They have their own police force, fire department, just like any other county. It was part of the deal to bring Disney into Florida.

    If you carefully look at some of the State of Florida numbers you will see them reflected there, but you won't find "Disney County" listed. If you want to search, look for "Reedy Creek".

  76. Call me old fashioned by sunking2 · · Score: 1

    But this is kind of like going to a concert where everyone is waving glow sticks around. Without the anticipation of some long haired dudes hair catching on fire it's just not the same.

    Shooting them up with compressed air just sort of takes away from the whole 'rockets red glare' that makes them fun.

  77. Re:Change is Bad! Very Bad! by hesiod · · Score: 1

    > My intuition was telling me it would take at least 10 lbs of black powder to launch an average size shell.

    Woah, escaped a Darwin there ;)

    I think 10 pounds of powder would be enough to launch Marlon Brando!

  78. It does, but THAT'S not one of them. by novapyro · · Score: 1

    The one thing I did like about black powder is the ability for controlled burns, allowing a much slower ascent for fireworks which light up on the way up. I don't think that's possible with this technique.



    You misunderstand how the conventional method of shell launching works. They aren't rockets; they're just projectiles. The lift charge ignites, and the expanding gas projects the shell out of the mortar. (The mortars are frequently called "guns" in the trade.) The process is that of firing a large-bore black powder cannon.


    If you observe a spiral trail (called a "tail") as the shell ascends, its because a large piece of pyrotechnic material (called a "star", or if it's really large a "comet") was affixed to the outside of the shell casing specifically to create that effect, and not because burning black powder is continuing to exert lift. For shells that don't have tails, you can sometimes see the time fuse burning as the shell ascends; it's much more faint and doesn't leave a "tail."


    It is possible to use an internal (to the shell) embedded computer to fire the break charge. The common system is called "Magicfire" and works just as well with conventionally lifted shells as it does with pneumatically lifted shells.

    Rockets (as opposed to shells) are used very rarely in commercial displays. This is mostly due to the simplicity and low price of standard shells, but also because rockets create a greater hazard to audiences. Specifically, they must remain stable throughout the thrusting phase. Shells just follow a ballistic trajectory, subject to spin effects and wind, of course, but still more predictable than cheaply made rockets. Also, rockets are (usually) stabilized by external devices that are not destroyed in the break; sticks from large rockets sometimes stabilize (because some of the casing or heading remains attached) and become blunt arrows on the way down. This can be a bit nasty.

    I said "usually stabilized by external devices" because there are some rockets, commonly called "steenger missiles" or "stinger missiles" that are spin stabilized. These are a real hoot to make and use; they're the simplest aerial firework to construct once you have the tooling. You can make one in five minutes, and some of those babies can really get up there. Again, though, they aren't used in commercial displays. If you want to see a flight of them in a display sometime, you'll have to join a fireworks club and come out to a shoot. Details for the curious at http://www.crackerjacks.org/
  79. Wrong weight to lift ratio; needs more powder by novapyro · · Score: 1
    A typical 8" shell weighs about 3 pounds, of which about 1 ounce is the lift charge. Most of the weight comes from the shell casing (pressed glued paper) that holds the burst charge and the stars and keeps them together long enough for the stars to ignite when the timing fuse burns through to the burst charge.
    You're a bit light on lift. Usually, you will want approximately a 16 to 1 ratio of shell weight to lift charge weight. For small shells, (below 3 inches) some people use a 5 to 1 or 6 to 1 ratio.

    Once the shell weight gets over 10-15 pounds or so, you generally would use only 32 to 1 proportions. So, after the lift charge gets up to a pound, you only increase it by 1/2 ounce for each additional pound of shell weight. This holds okay until the shell weight gets into above 50 pounds or so. Basically, the curve is slightly non-linear, until the pressure exponent of black powder eventually shifts the reaction into a very non-linear region. This is what happened with Grucci's attempt to launch the worlds biggest shell; the weight of the shell and the fit in the mortar drove the gas generation and lift dynamics into the very non-linear region of the equation.
    For reference, the largest shell ever fired (the 36" Fat Man) weighed 800 pounds and was lifted 1400 feet in the air by 1/2 pound of black powder.
    See the late George Plimpton's "Fireworks" for an entertaining read on the non-linearity of this attempt. Incidentally, larger shells have been put up since. [ Reply to This ]
  80. Sulpherous[sic] Ash by Commander+Trollco · · Score: 1
    For there to be any appreciable solid chunks of Sulphurous material, the Sulphur would have to be in lumps within the shell. This is never the case. Sulphur is a minor ingredient in any powder blend, and is dispersed throughout. I have worked with ball mills, you have (obviously) not. To make up an assertion that actual solid ash, containing Sulphur, has drifted into your eyes, and then follow with the wild-eyed claim that this ash was acidic, throws what little credibility you had left over out the window.

    "I assume you live in a bunker and get all your information from video games."

    I will let that one stand as it is, no comment needed from me.

    --
    http://persianews.on.nimp.org/?u=Tar_Baby