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Mozilla Usage Doubles in 9 Months
TheBadger writes "Thanks to the success of Firefox, Mozilla now appears to have 14.9% of the browser share, double that of 9 months ago. Let this be a lesson in complacency."
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This is a completely non-story. W3Schools is a (good) site aimed at web developers, ones that actually understand and use HTML/CSS/etc rather than whatever Frontpage makes. Yes, it's good that more developers are using Firefox/Mozilla, but it is not indicative of average users. Google's Zeitgeist was a good measure of the average user, but they've dropped the browser stats. My non-techy websites get about 7% Firefox, and about another 3% of Mozilla/Netscape 6/7 users. Is Firefox/Mozilla usage increasing? Yes, but it is not at 15%.
The anti-trust suits against Microsoft would have resulted in at least one of two things. The first would be removing IE so the person has to manually install it from the CD or download it after install. Second, force all of Microsoft's web development tools to be 100% standards compliant. Instead, the Bush administration gives them a get out of jail free pass and California accepts coupons for MS products which is the anti-solution for software monoculture in schools.
How much longer will people vote for politicians who let corporations shit all over consumers in the name of profit?
Seriously? Hmm... they don't seem to have any category for Konquer/Safari users... or am I missing something? Either way nice to see Moz gaining ground... but... is this really true?
It looks like the percentage of users using IE6 went down while the percetnage for IE5 went up. I can't quite figure out what to make of this.
Just one thing, w3schools.com is a site for people who write websites, so they'd naturally have a much higher percentage of non-IE browsers than the more general browsing population.
Personally, I keep an eye on thecounter.com to see how Mozilla's market share is doing. It's certainly more realistic than the linked article statistics page. Pity Google removed browser stats from the zeitgeist page.
--- There isn't any problem that can't be solved by a small, low yield nuclear device, is there??
The interesting this is that the browser with the biggest drop in usage from January to August is IE5. I wonder if this means that users of IE5 decided to switch rather than upgrade this year.
Complacency != Apathy
Whatever. Close enough.
And so at last the beast fell and the unbelievers rejoiced. But all was not lost, for from the ash rose a great bird. The bird gazed down upon the unbelievers and cast fire and thunder upon them. For the beast had been reborn with its strength renewed, and the followers of Mammon cowered in horror.
from The Book of Mozilla, 7:15
Karma: Segmentation fault (tried to dereference a null post)
Um, your own chart shows that IE6 usage has barely budged in the past year and holds firm around 70%, near its high. Yes, Mozilla's increased, but at the expense of old IE5 installations only.
So, in this case, complacency is working fine.
There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
"Web Browsers Used to Access Google" graphic in google montlhy Zeitgeist shows an improvement as well, but not as big as mentioned
ehi! why in july report the graphic is not there any more???
When I've checked my personal site's stats (small gardening site, roughly 400-500 page views per day) over the past couple months: I've been seeing roughly 70% Internet Explorer, 5% unknown, and the rest are mostly Mozilla/Netscape variants. Safari makes up just a couple percentage points.
About a year ago hits from IE were at about 90%.
#DeleteChrome
Here's some statistics from a different source (which actually presents stats from 5 sources), where Gecko (mozilla) ranges from 4% to 27% - it's clear that the stats greatly vary from site to site:
http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm
and THAT is why MS is "so great" for the software industry! [at least THEIR reasoning]
Find free books.
Firefox is fairly new to most non nerd consumers. I never even tried it until about 5 months ago.
The news over last summer with banking information being stolen convinced my old man to ask my about alternative browsers. I burned him a cd with firefox since the New York times mentioned it.
My gf uses firefox on her old pc because she is worried about security after the scare this summer and due to the fact its an older machine and firefox is snappy on old hardware.
People prefer IE but if something like online trading and banking flaws get involved all of the sudden switching may not be such a bad idea.
http://saveie6.com/
How long did it take them to get that? Microsoft has been complacent for several years, doing nothing to advance their browser. Mozilla starts to gain ground and then they do something. I'd say complacency fits perfect with what they were doing with IE until just a few months ago.
In those statistics (and really any browser statistics like them) Opera's numbers are unfairly represented because Opera allows you to change what header it sends out allowing you to spoof other browsers such as IE or netscape. I, like many other Opera users, generally have my user-agent set to IE. This is useful in the case of sites that (stupidly) limit your ability to access a page based on what browser you're using. For example, when I go to staples.com in Opera with my user-agent header set to Opera, it tells me I don't have cookies enabled (yeah, WTF?) but if I change my user-agent to IE, I can browse the whole site perfectly.
Particularly since it shows Linux at 3% and Mac at 2.5%.
And it shows a fairly steady (if slow) increase.
Are these statistics showing the percentage using Mozilla, or the percentage reporting themselves as being Mozilla to webpages?
"but we are also monitoring other sources around the Internet to assure the quality of these figures)"
is the rest of the parent's quote.
I dont know how real that info is, i mean it may just be that the sites im checking stats on are just a little off, but IE doesnt look like 78% on my sites , more like 95++ and that to, easily. Perhaps the list of sites that they are taking into consideration are just the geeky sites where people actually do have a clue as to other browsers. Im convinced the only reason MSN gets the number of hits that it does is really just because of the fact that so many users dont know how to change their home page ! Can anyone else provide feed back on their site stats ? I use FireFox for my browsing, love the tabs and the download manager, but it sure is memory hungry, i wish it would load up along with Windows and be quicker on the start, perhaps they should do what Winamp does, which is, start a winamp loader by default.
I run two web sites, one of which gets 3 million hits per day, neither of which are tech-oriented, and have seen very similar results to W3schools. In January, 7% Firefox/Mozilla and 85% IE. In August, 15% Firefox/Mozilla and 74% IE.
I should buy some cement.
If you went with the first answer rather than giving respondents two chances, I'd say you would have had a lot more that answered, "I dunno, what's a browser", and another 30% that answered, "Windows."
Increase of Mozilla/Firefox use for web designers is indeed very good news, because it means that more web sites will be browsable with those (a typical web desigher surely wouldn't design a web page he can't access with his standard browser, would he?).
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
After my 15y/o son went on about it, I decided to give it a try. The clincher was when I right clicked and had an option to look up a word. This after trying several browsers in the past.
I just moved to a new highschool for my senior year and signed up for a java class. I was pleased when I found out that the computers in the lab have Firefox (and OpenOffice) on them. I guess word is spreading, even though most CS type teachers are probably nerds too...
I'm looking at btowser stats for seifried.org, averaging 70,000 visits a month in the security area and I'm not seeing even a hint of firefox in the top 15 browsers for any month, "MSIE 6.0; Windows X" and googlebot are the clear winners. You think people interested in computer security and UNIX would have a tendancy to use FireFox or Mozilla but IE is still kicking their butts.
36.97%=Mozilla/5.0 ; 33.65%=MSIE 6.0 ; 6.45%=Pompos/1.3 http://dir.com/pompos.html ; 6.40%=msnbot/0.11 (+http://search.msn.com/msnbot.htm) ; 2.71%=Opera 7.5 ; 2.46%=Yahoo! Slurp ; 2.41%=Googlebot/2.1 (+http://www.google.com/bot.html) ; 1.93%=psbot/0.1 (+http://www.picsearch.com/bot.html) ; 1.49%=MSIE 5.5 ; 0.87%=Konqueror/3.2 ; 0.80%=Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;) ; 0.56%=Konqueror/3.3 ; 0.50%=MSIE 5.0 ; 0.43%=Konqueror/3.1 ; 0.41%=Opera 7.2
Here are the more normal Aug. results with about 0% hits coming from slashdot:
46.89%=MSIE 6.0 ; 16.82%=Mozilla/5.0 ; 7.92%=msnbot/0.11 (+http://search.msn.com/msnbot.htm) ; 6.50%=Googlebot/2.1 (+http://www.google.com/bot.html) ; 3.55%=Ask Jeeves/Teoma)" ; 3.14%=MSIE 5.0 ; 2.67%=Pompos/1.3 http://dir.com/pompos.html ; 1.86%=MSIE 5.5 ; 1.82%=psbot/0.1 (+http://www.picsearch.com/bot.html) ; 1.27%=HTTrack 3.0 ; 1.05%=Yahoo! Slurp ; 0.93%=Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;) ; 0.88%=Opera 7.5
Unfair! Many IE users are forced to spoof their user-agent strings to represent themselves as Mozilla/FireFox users to make themselves looks hip and socially conscious.
Or not.
DCMonkey
meh.. firefox is free without any catches. Plus, it has a very nice adblocking extension that makes browsing much less painful.
Just browsing the features listed on the Opera page I don't see much that firefox doesn't offer natively or by installing an extension, so I see no real reason to switch and a few good resons not to.
"I have a porkchop, you have a porkchop. I have a veal, you have a veal".
Complacency is just apathy in action ... no wait, it is apathy in inaction
Think global, act loco
Most people who visit w3schools.com are not the average user, they are developers: early adopters. It would take at least another 9 months for global Mozilla usage to reach half these levels.
I prefer to go by the stats published by OneStat.com in their Pressbox.
However, I do think the rest of the year will bring a significant change in browser usage.
Schools and companies are the places where there are a huge number of computers. Those are the places where Mozilla can make inroads for quick jumps in market share. My school finally dropped Netscape 4 and is offering a custom Mozilla browser with its logo to every student. How long before others follow?
Not to Firefox troll, but I think everyone should make an effort to switch at least one person over to firefox. Then, see if they can switch at least one person.
I was happy using Mozilla, but since I switched to Firefox... I've been thrilled.
It flies, it has some nice plugins (I recommend FTPsync and Browser Agent switching for those annoying sites) and my experience has been nothing but great.
Just because I occassionally switch my user agent string doesn't mean I don't complain. I recently submitted a complaint to yahooligans (A yahoo kids oreiented site).
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
As has been said in many previous posts, those stats JUST represent ONE site, and a tech-oriented one at that, making the results hugely biased.
1 03 09
For a comparison as to how useless those statistics are, I checked out the stats for the most popular site tracked by NedStatBasic. It's startpagina.nl with about 2.8 million pageviews per day.
Here are the browser stats:
IE 5/6: 96.7%
Mozilla: 2.7%
Other: 0.6%
You can see the stats here:
http://www.nedstatbasic.net/s?tab=1&link=5&id=7
No one will really notice until Mozilla browsers have 20%+ of the market. Then MS will announce that the next version of IE will:
* do all the stuff mozilla does
* works with dot net better
* never gets dull, and can slice a tomato perfectly after trimming 4" off your car's muffler
* is a free download
* but wait... there's more (tm) ms will throw in MR. Paperclip browsing buddie at no cost to you.
-- $G
The most interesting thing is that slashdot is one of the sites it has the most trouble with. Take a look at the screenshot on this page! Most of the time it will render /. like that until I hit reload and that will fix it.
I've seen this behavior on Mac, Windows, and Linux. And there's a bug posted on it in the Firefox bug database. What perplexes me is why the /. folks with the necessary skills haven't fixed this problem yet!
Best Buy can have you arrested
I would hope that large organizations would eventually realize that the money saved on the back end through the hiring of cheap developers and development tools is more than negated when considering that you are also paying for the virus detection systems, support staff, and system recovery of 10,000 users, but this has not happened. And as more money is poured down the drain of IE only sites, it is just going to get harder.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
My Mozilla has that but I have to right click on the desktop to get display properties, settings, display resolution, move the slider to the left, BEHOLD! And no bilinear filtering bluriness! ;)
On the same lines, I wish /. would post their stats... (Cmdr Taco?)
/.'s stats compare.
It would be interesting to see how
When I've checked my personal site's stats (small gardening site...
400-500 hits a day, ehh?
Sounds like a:
M A R I J U A N A site to me
Sorry, lost my mind for a moment, please mod me down to preserve this fine news site from my abusive post.
Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.
Your name could be a candidate for the next firefox release.
On a lot of website statistics gathering tools KHTML and Safari aren't supported options so they usally get counted as gecko based(at least with mine).
Damn, missed the url
Browser_Stats
IMAP for Gmail
Certainly in Europe :) :
:)
Here are the stats from Poland
first all the guests stats
http://www.ranking.pl/rank.php?stat=browAL
then Polish users stats
http://www.ranking.pl/rank.php?stat=browPL
and outsiders stats
http://www.ranking.pl/rank.php?stat=browFG
as you can see Opera RULES in Poland (second after IE) with >4% steady rising userbase
Go grab those torrents.
Indeed, but Safari is a wily beast. Its default is "Mozilla/5.0":from http://developer.apple.com/internet/safari/safari
My web tracking service definitely seems to lump "Mozilla 5.0", and thus Safari, in with Netscape 7 since the other choices (Netscape 3, 4, MSIE 4, Opera and Other) all have negligible hit counts.
Dont forget that Gmail is still invitation-only, and therefore a very biased sample.
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
I think he's just appealing to the groupthink mods.
I think you're in denial.
They make you use Amaya!
We know that U.S Patent Office is notorious of issuing patents (particularly software patents) that are clearly unpatentable. But very few are aware that U.S. Patent Office is violating our constitutional right by promulgating and enforcing a Microsoft-IE-only policy.
This little-noticed law really makes me mad and feel like crying--why a government agency can be so stupid.
Basically, when you file a patent application, if the Patent Office thinks that your invention is not patentable because it is not novel or nonobvious, it will send you copies of prior art patents so you can rebut their rejection.
Now the Patent Office has changed its policy and will not send you those hard copies. Instead, it requires you to download those prior art reference on-line.
Under ordinary circumstances, this would not pose any problem, except that we are dealing with one of the most stupid government agencies in the history of mankind. The United States Patent Office, without much notice, now requires that, in order to download those references, you must register with the Patent Office, then the Patent Office will install a program ON YOUR MACHINE WHICH MUST BE RUNNING MICROSOFT INTERNET EXPLORER UNDER MICROSOFT WINDOWS to allow you to communicate with the Patent Office before you can download those prior art patents that our government must furnish you as a matter of our constitution right and as part of the filing fees paid to the Patent Office.
Thus, basically it has boiled down to this stupid law: if you want to receive a patent, you are now REQUIRED BY LAW to have a machine with Microsoft Windows running Internet Explorer in your office.
In other words, in order to exercise your constitutional rights, you must have a machine that runs Microsoft Windows and you must set Microsoft Internet Explorer as your default browser.
What kind of stupid government agency is this? I know many banks used to have the same requirement (i.e., using Microsoft IE running in Microsoft Windows), but they have got rid of this stupid policy because they have to compete in order to survive.
The United States Patent and Trademark can implement and insist such a stupid policy because it doesn't have to compete. But what about those 4000+ patent attorneys? How come all of them are so quiet? Are all of them idiots?
Even our HomeLand Security Department has changed its Microsoft-only policy. It appears that our Patent and Trademark Office is the only government agency in the whole world that requires its users to use Microsoft Windows. Unlike Homeland Security Department, the U.S. Patent Office has to account to no one!
Microsoft survives and propers exactly because our government agencies are unafraid to abuse their power and unashamed of being idiots.
Heh, no, not "adult".
www.nationstates.net
I should buy some cement.
If you look closely, you'll see that internet explorer 6 usage has been pretty level, but internet explorer 5 usage plumetted in almost exactly the same proportion that firefox / moz increased.
It appears, then, that these are people with old machines who won't put up with an increasingly exploited browser but who can't run I.E. 6... either from a power standpoint or an access standpoint. Windows 98 usage only dropped 3% in that time, so nearly all of the converts must be running the older platform.
I'd be interested to see statistics correlating the two, and whether or not the people visiting w3 skew towards having older computers than the average surfers.
Either way the conclusion is clear: Microsoft is losing people at the tail end of their product line, because they refuse to offer a low-power, efficient alternative for older platforms.
The ______ Agenda
called me tonight to inform me that his father does not have firefox. My son was upset and downloaded Firefox for his browser. Apparently, my ex-husband has been having problems with my son's games while with dad. We are divorced. My son informed me that his father had a lot of problems with his computer but he was going to fix it. He downloaded Ad-Aware, Spybot Search and Destroy, Mozilla Firefox and he would explain these to his dad. Uhh....he is 10. I think we are making progress. :)
I've long been plugging Mozilla/Firefox on my websites, particularly, my anti-Microsoft site at www.freedomware.us
I'm also running for state office and making Microsoft and open source software campaign issues - in Bill Gates' back yard. See my campaign website at www.edrevolt.org.
I wish more web designers would take charge of their profession and start plugging quality (i.e. non-Microsoft) software!
David Blomstrom
Webmaster of http://www.freedomware.us/ Candidate for Public Office - http://www.edrevolt.org/
The Web Developer extension for Firefox has a Zoom feature (under Miscellanous, Zoom) that works just like the one you describe, scaling images and all.
DJ kRYPT's Free MP3s!
Or do some things work in MSIE but not in other browsers? Or will some things work better if they're told that the visitor is MSIE, even if it's really links or w3m?
Any of this would slant the stats.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I just read your "Bugzilla Report".
It was emotional.
It was expansive.
It was wishy-washy.
It was "I think".
Did you provide any hard proof of bugs? Nope
Did you provide what part of the GUI was "broken" or "breaking"? Nope
Did you use usability sheets to determine what was "wrong" in the GUI? Nope
It, scientifically, means nothing. It defines no real problems, other than the emotional "my ball-and-chain doesnt like it". As a debugger, I'd have trashed your begging about nothing in particular, but it seems they already did that.
This is an example why free software debuggers are soo short with users.
Although I think this is great, the statistics from some servers that I manage and run show different and it depends greatly on the type of site. For example this link to a stats report for a site that was Slashdotted shows Firefox users as 26.8% of visitors and Mozilla 16.7%, a grand total of 43.5% against IE, which got 40.7%. All I can say here is well done Slashdotters for using a decent, and probably the best browser - it's excellent.
Looking at another site, not slashdotted, of general interest for all sorts of users, the stats reveal 9.1% Firefox and 5.4% Mozilla, which comes to 14.5% - a figure very close to that posted in the article. Good.
However, it's very different when moving to a commercial site selling a commerical product. For example, on site reveals just 1.6% Mozilla & Firefox users against 96.6% IE users and another, selling Jazz and Latino records, has 4% Mozilla against 87.9% IE.
I reckon that it depends greatly upon who your audience is as to what statistics you extrapolate.
It is not a bug in Slashcode. It is a bug in the Gecko (the rendering portion of Mozilla) code related to incremental reflow. It has been fixed in Gecko, but the latest version of Gecko has not been rolled into Firefox.
(Courtesy of another Slashdotter in the know.)
I'm not sure what the schedule is on rolling in the fix.
May we never see th
- 263277 - MSIE 6
- 11580 - Mozilla 1
- 5725 - Netscape 7
- 3250 - Safari 125
- 1662 - Opera 7
So this makes it more apparent that users of ancient browsers are a tiny fraction of my visitors, but there are enough of them to be noticed, and to wonder why they never upgraded.Request your free CD of my piano music.
Just one thing, w3schools.com is a site for people who write websites, so they'd naturally have a much higher percentage of non-IE browsers than the more general browsing population.
Sure, people with the most basic web knowledge know to avoid IE. If you filter out people with a clue you are left with 99.999% winblows users. I'm happy the cluefull are migrating in increasing numbers. It shows that whatever real and perceived barriers there are to using non M$ software are going away.
Do you suggest we get all our stats from the clueless and deluded? Perhaps we should just get the facts from Bill Gates.
Oh yeah, this is what they claim about their study:
The statistics above are extracted from W3Schools' log-files, but we are also monitoring other sources around the Internet to assure the quality of these figures.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Or less like an easy mark. The problem is that it's easier to change your browser and easier still to change out your whole OS for something that works. Oh dear, that's what these statistics mean isn't it?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
That's some funny math. The way I see it, IE has gone from close to 90% to close to 75%. That's a big difference, 9/10 to 3/4. You are also ignoring the rate of change, which is accelerating significantly. It's surprising when you consider the AOL (you know, world's biggest ISP) inclusion of IE and other changes which should have favored IE usage.
Predictions of more non M$ use are easier to make. These people are the kinds of "decision makers" that are going to tell people of their positive experiences. Web developers are obviously sick of M$, despite it's "market share" and are learning that other software works better.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
You mean it looks like this? I know what you're talking about, but every time I mention it here, they tell me it must be *my own* fault!
Best Buy can have you arrested
Mozilla is one HUGE application. It is grindingly slow and painful, IE is lean and mean comparatively.
For a while Netscape 4.7x communicator was all that was available for AIX, Solaris etc. Firefox has changed things, and gained market share.
I used to use netscape 3.x back in the early days, then switched to IE because it was there by default, and also because Netscape 4.x was too slow for my brand new hardware. Browsing has to be fast, and most people multitask it with other things, so it shouldnt take 100% of your memory. I then started using Opera as soon as that was available, and now back to Firefox.
I'm not alone.
Many others who were capable of downloading and installing Netscape didnt for its size alone. I just hate to see Firefox called Mozilla because theres a big difference. Sure they share code but the philosophy is different.
I hope they completely dump the entire mozilla browser and continue the firefox line, and even produce something thats smaller, leaner and faster than the current firefox, for older machines.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Its http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=slashd ot (yes, id=slashdot actually works) I didn't make it clickable because it won't load a with Slashdot referer anyway.
It doesn't look like Mozilla is catching on much among the general public.
I run a number of porn sites, and if I were more organized in my stats, I could give you precise numbers. But informally, a lot of the freeloader-oriented sites (i.e. sites with free porn, which attract repeat, veteran porn surfers) are getting a strong majority mozilla users. I'd guess pop-up blocking was the driving force, as free porn sites are notorious for pop-ups, and are quick to adopt work-arounds to the various IE toolbar-based pop-up blockers. (So that pop-ups still appear even with google's anti-pop-up toolbar installed). XP's SP2 offers solid pop-up blocking, so I expect that incentive will dissipate now.
"Yes, Mozilla's increased, but at the expense of old IE5 installations only."
So you assume the IE6 number didn't change, but people upgrade from IE5 straight to Mozilla?
Sorry, but this poll doesn't include "transition stats". What I imagine is that about the same number of people run Windows Update and have IE6 installed as a result (or get XP instead of 98SE) as those who change from IE6 to Mozilla. That should be the reason why the IE6 stats don't change much - it gains from one side just as much as it loses from the other, but it gains and loses a lot simultaneously.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Sure enough, the Gecko-using browsers have crept up in recent months, but nothing earth-shattering - what started off as around 2.1% 6 months ago is now 3.2%. Perhaps more interesting is to note that home users are taking up Gecko browsers in a big way (now seeing almost 5% Gecko at the weekends), but on workdays, that slips to back down to under 3%.
Conclusion: Gecko browser usage is increasing on the average site, but only by about 0.2% a month (will take 3 years to reach 10%, which sounds about right).
You can't define a "standard" by what one program does, because that program will change. IE 6 has different bugs from IE 5, and IE 7 will have different bugs from IE 6.
Adhering to the published W3C standards is the only way to go.
Personally, I find very, very few sites are written exclusively for IE, apart from microsoft.com sites. Most companies have more sense than to alienate 15% of their customers.
only if you believe that there is no drawback to living a (likely) lie.
His point is that the idea (whether true or not) is one that specifically encourages people to (usually) behave in ways that are better for society as a whole, so it is therefore better to believe it than not believe it, whether it is true or not.
There are of course other belief systems that do not call for a supernatural supreme being dealing out divine justice after your death in order to give the same results. I call mine "ethics", although there are a lot of people who don't seem to believe in it...
They list screen resolution. This is evil. The implicit assumption is that people run their browser full-screen.
Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
Your right. It's near 17% when you consider that Netscape is now based on Mozilla code.
And this survey is based on several sources, not just their own stats. I can tell you as a developer for a Microsoft vendor where 98% of our traffic is directly from the Microsoft employees, 5% of Microsoft employees use Mozilla.
So if it's that high even on the MS campus, you can easily expect that 15% elsewhere.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.