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palmOne Announces Tungsten T5
btornado writes "palmOne has officially announced the Tungsten T5, which is due out in early November. It features 256 MB of flash memory, Palm OS Garnet 5.4 with a 320x480 display, and Bluetooth connectivity with support for the SDIO Wifi card. It is also the first device to support the Multi-connector, which allows you to trickle charge from the USB cable. You can also configure the T5 as a USB drive to transfer files."
Charge from the USB connector?
Oh my, that's what a two yeard old Zire does!
Support for a WiFi card ... why does it not have WiFi in it ?????
Okay, I know that I can navigate to my iPaq's memory (or CF & SD cards) via explorer, but how easily can you access the Palm's memory? Is there any installation necessary on the local computer before you can access this? I'm going to bet that this is more of a marketing ploy than anything. Attach the latest buzz word and hope people snatch it up.
http://liquidben.com - Aspiring to an 'under construction' gif
I remember distinctly that palm OS5 was supposed to be a stopgap measure between the classic OS4 and the modern, BeOS based OS6... Essentially OS5 was OS4 with some badly needed modifications to make it run on faster hardware. And now that we're up to 5.4, the patches keep rolling in and in, as they add more ram and expand the featureset ever towards what OS 6 is supposed to contain, which is supposed to be in parallel development.
When are we getting the real Palm OS 6, with such badly needed features as multiprocessing and a file system?
The ______ Agenda
Palm's announcements are always underwhelming.
The $400 sounds okay, until you realize it does not include built-in WiFi. The screen is half VGA.
And it doesn't have the new version of the PalmOS. Instead we get 5.4, which as far as I'm concerned, the entire 4.x and 5.x OS's have been disappointments. The IP stack in the 5.x OS is what I'd consider unstable and unusable. Imagine that when networked apps crash, they actually crash inside the IP stack, not the application.
Don't get me started on the lack of multitasking.
Very disappointing.
Forget the arguments about processors, wireless connectivity and other technical issues, it's little things like this that make me want to buy a device.
Simple but useful features, that's what makes a product stand out
Mod parent up!
Although the connector may be new, the charging feature is not. Palm's Tungsten E is also capable of trickle charging from its USB cable.
That's a heck of a surprise to me since I did just that on a recent trip.
fencepost
just a little off
WiFi sucks power like crazy. It reduces battery life by over 70% if the SDIO WiFi card is any indication.
And, as another poster mentioned, WiFi seems to change about once a year - and I'd rather buy a new $100 SDIO card than a new $400 PDA.
Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
There were massive rumors that (then called) a T4 (looks like palmOne decided on odd numbering of production models: T3, T5...) would have 2 SD slots -- this ould have allowed to use SD and SDIO cards at the same time (in particular, the just-released WiFi card). Does not look like this is what happened....
This baby has got quite some storage, that is true -- this might compensate for the missing dual-slot option...
Another rumor was that the next Tx were to use 6.x PalmOS, not the 5.x -- I guess another one not to come true.
--AP
Docs To Go in ROM is very nice, VersaMail too, Realplayer, though... that's a prime candidate for replacement if someone really uses their Palm for music...
USB drive mode - very nice, and about time. Nice that http://www.softick.com/ took care of that a long time ago for everyone else...
And I think the Tungsten E will do trickle charging from the USB cable... I'm not positive about that, I don't tend to leave mine lying around, tethered to a computer.
SYS 64738 NO CARRIER
Oh, while talking about it: I read that the LiPol batteries have lifetimes measured mostly by number of charging cycles. Does trickle-charging count? Oh is it "healthier" to run the things until they start complaining and then fully charge them using charger? Not a 100% silly question (probably) since these Palms all have not normally replaceable battery.
"It reduces battery life by over 70% if the SDIO WiFi card is any indication."
On the Sony Clie, its probably about 50%, but its irrelevant. Give the user the ability to switch it off!
"WiFi seems to change about once a year"
New stardards are emerging yes, but they're all backwards compatible. Moreover, the PalmOS can't effectively use an 802.11b data rate, so this is good enough.
"I'd rather buy a new $100 SDIO card than a new $400 PDA."
With Palm devices, the changes of a new whizzy card working with a 2+ year old palm device approach zero. The SDIO card you spoke of was only compatible with 2 Palm devices, both of them current models. When the Palm T6 comes out, there will be no more support from Palm for the T5. They figure if you only spent $400, they're done with you.
That's why you shouldn't buy the T5 hoping it will be compatible with PalmOS6 (if it ever comes out). Palm simply won't bother with it.
Time to sit and wait for the T6, I guess.
Looks like they'll be dropping Macintosh support completely. (Caveat: looks like there might be 3rd party support, but a friend of mine told me MarkSpace leaves something to be desired.)
Murray Todd Williams
http://www.wxwidgets.org/palmos.htm
Why didn't they just modify BeIA so that it could run on their hardware? BeIA, the stripped down internet appliance version of BeOS, could easily run on their hardware now. I had BeOS running in half that memory on a PII 450 and it was FAST. Whoever made the decision to buy Be's IP and not fully exploit it at Palm should be shot.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
No Wi-Fi built-in... no microphone... no Cobalt...no sliding case - can support stereo speakers and portable file transfers, yet it is targetted at business users? RealPlayer required on it and your desktop machine (ouch).
Why does it feel like PalmOne wants me to buy a product from another company to replace my m515?
A review link... - And an accessory list link...
I think the real news here is that the price of the T3 has dropped to $350 with the releaase of the T5.
Another $50 and I'll be all over it...
- sig? who is this sig of which you speak?
You could have gotten refurb T3's for $300 for a couple months.
Right now, I think a T3 is worth about $250 new, about $175 used. And I wouldn't buy it unless I had to have one this minute.
I would only buy the T5 if PalmOS6 will work with it. And I won't take Palm's word for it either. I'll have to see it on a shipping machine.
This article links only to the company's product page. This article is nothing but an advertisement. It has been deemed a slashvertisement.
Speak truth to power.
Actually ... no.
The address book works with vcards and will still sync bluetooth.
The unit itself can now just be mounted like a hard drive on the Mac desktop - so you just drag whatever straight into an appropriate place.
Besides the palmone spec page says - full mac support
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
What I would really like to see from Palm is a decent C++ API for their OS. Being stuck with a C API is so annoying for C++ development.
In a C++ API you could just derive a subclass of a control and overload the parts you want to, just as KDE does with Qt.
With 256Mb, you should be able to store a lot of pr0n on it, and take it with you where ever you go.
Basically pr0n in you pocket (that isn't just in your pants pocket).
Really, this is really nothing more than a T3 that can't be "collapsed". It has some "extras" like more RAM, more Flash RAM, but everything else is just software addons that can be found for the T3 in one form or another.
This certainly is not a revolutionary device, and the lack of WiFi is VERY disappointing. A colleague just bought one of the new HP ipaqs that has a FULL VGA screen and integrated WiFi, and it simply smokes anything Palm has put out. Yes, it was almost double the cost, but still, the T5 is a real disappontment.
Now, if Sony would have released a UX-50 with either no camera or a removable camera (to comply with many business restrictions) it would be our device of choice...
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
Charge from the USB connector? Tick.
Use as a USB mass storage device? Tick.
So where the the use USB devices (like keyboards etc) - any device with a Linux driver in fact, and the 640x480 screen? Then they will finally have caught up with the Zaurus.
Even the Qtopia PIM apps are starting to catch up now, so why should I chose one of these things at all?
Beep beep.
Lord... The PalmOne crowd will never be happy... Frankly, I an kinda tired of reading people bashing P1 for this unit. Sure, it's not revolutionary, but it's an improvement, especially on battery life. I don't really think the T3 needed a whole lot of improvement, (again, battery life) and I don't think this was intended to "unseat" the T3. I'm in the (seeming) minority of people who don't need WiFi, don't want WiFi and frankly could care less if P1 ever makes a WiFi radio on their devices. I get along just fine with Bluetooth and my Motorola v710. I can browse the Internet, get my email, and do everything I want Internet-wise. I've never been sitting in an airport or coffee-house and said "Damn... if I only had WiFi! Now I'm ruined!"
I'm willing to admit that Dell devices still may have higher tech specs, but honestly, until they can run PalmOS, I'm not the slightest bit interested. PPC sucks. It's not stable, it's a resource hog. It has more moving parts, and having supported both PPC and POS, can say without hesitation that in my opinion, POS is still far superior.
In conclusion to my rant, I'm not going to say "Way to go PalmOne!" They made some mistakes. (Plastic case? Oops!) On the other hand, I don't think this is a miserable failure. It's an evolutionary device that is slightly better than the T3. I think that everyone's expectations were simply too high, and mostly unreasonable. If P1 had come out with a device with WiFi, people would complain about battery life. If it had a voice recorder, people would complain that it turned the device on in their pockets. I don't think that Palm could have satisfied people after having such a long break since their last release. And to those of you wondering, I don't work for Palm. Let's just hope that the long-term reliability of this unit is an improvement, because that's where P1 could go horribly wrong. My T3 had far too many hardware problems, and if the T5 exhibits the same problems, then P1 could really be in trouble.
-Arthur
Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
The differences are between this and Tungsten T3: * better file transfer * flash memory * favourites view * 102 more MB * USB device only 2 of those features would cause me to even consider upgrading from my Tungsten E, and I'd be more inclined to just get a USB stick. Are PDAs so good that no "wow" features exist for them? Cause they're all looking much the same to me (except for features such as built-in cameras, but that isn't so much PDAs getting advanced features as people trying to converge technologies).
Palm has forgotten the mantra of the original developers that made the Palm III such a success -- keep it small. The Tungsten T is just barely carryable, and the newer versions just keep getting bigger. Personally, I'd rather see Palm spend their energy reducing the size of the T series than increasing the features.
Go to http://www.csszengarden.com/
SYS 64738 NO CARRIER
But ... $400 buys me one with built-in WiFi from Dell!
It's WinCE evilness of course, but I can't see how Palm is supposed to survive this way.
What?? I've had my 802.11b PCMCIA card since 1999 and it wasn't even a new model back then! It works perfectly still and is what I would like to see in a PDA as well.
I didn't steal my UIN ;)
Real sucks...
As for palm on PC - no arguing whatsoever. Palm app OTOH - is okish.
No RealPlayer on your desktop machine...no RealPlayer on the T5... no songs on the T5. No choice. No sale.
All wrong: (a) It is possible to have Real on Palm and not on PC, just put needed PRC's to hotsync queue, namely:
e alOne.prc
RealLib.prc
RealMP3Codec.prc
RealMP3FF.prc
R
RealOne_enUS.prc
(b) To put MP3 files to card you can use a card reader (probably the way to go). Or you can use smth like CardExport, but it's kinda slow. Of course, in T5 this "card drive" functionality is built in.
(c) And finally - there are several alternative MP3 players, even w/ equalizers and stuff.
I don't care about the wi-fi thing if there's a working card for it. I don't care about the lack of microphone, I have a MD recorder. I don't care about Cobalt, I'd rather have the thing work with my Mac and my Linux boxes.
And the lack of a sliding case is a huge plus. The stupid sliding design is the single thing that has kept me away from the Tungsten series so far.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Well, there are people like me who hate the sliding design T series.
The problem with the UX-50 is the eye-strainingly small screen. If they'd fix that it would, indeed, be perfect.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
I don't understand why there is a need for a T5 now that the treo is established. Is there any advantage to a T5 over the Treo? The costs are about the same after rebates and now the Treo is getting high resolution a better camera and apparently bluetooth.
Am I missing something here?
"I think that everyone's expectations were simply too high, and mostly unreasonable."
No, people are disappointed because palm isn't keeping up with the market. The Dell Axim X30 has wifi, BT, half VGA, lots of memory, and can be purchased for $250. HP has the same but include GSM phones, and tons of other devices. Do I need all of them? No, but it means the device truely is multi-purpose.
So their reponse is a slight up grade to the T3, removing its best feature (the slide), no wifi, and crappy OS 5.x and for that we pay $400. Its a very slight change to the T3, and for tha we waited a year?
Palm must be greatful to have people who are willing to be 18-24 months behind the curve, but frankly, these are nothing more than what palm should have put out.... A YEAR AGO.
my big issue with palm in general is that the systems are very closed. Unlike the ipaqs, you cant just flash the bootloader and dual boot, heck you cant even install your favorite os. Opie running on familiar linux is free comparable to the latest windows releases feature wise and also syncs nicely with linux, windows (outlook) and OSX. I love it. On top of that since it is open source, i dont have to worry about it abandoing my platform (h3100 ipaq) the way that windows did. As a long time Pocket pc user, i had to switch to linux when windows no longer supported monchrome ipaqs. Who cares if i have 206mhz arm and a huge hdd on my cf, windows wont support it. Now that i have opie, i'm not looking back.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Let me be blunt, unless I get a working Wi-Fi card for my T2, that T2 will be my last Palm device.
I'm really pissed that my only option for wireless turned out to be buying a more expensive Palm, or bluetooth.
You ever try to set up a ZOOM bluetooth device on your PC so you could sync and surf on your Palm?
I returned the damn Zoom product. The configuration wasn't even documented, and they didn't even have drivers on their website, so when I took the device to work, I had to wait until the next day to set it up, since I'd forgotten their damn CD at home.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
I've developed for the Palm and have a bunch. But I've lost everything on my palm at least 3 times, when the batteries went dead, and losing my memos really, really sucked. I have a 64MB memory stick but there was no easy way to back up the Memo pad, that is you would have to search through zillions of files manually, and then decide whether to overwrite the older copy on your stick (did I back up after the last crash or before it). It was great having a vaio laptop with integral memory stick port, very easy to copy files back and forth. But when I spilled a latte on that (and pilot suddenly stopped working with RH9) I have somehow learned to deal without it. I will never go back to the Palm unless (1) it gets nonvolatile memory, and (2) it gets some faster input. I'm saving up for a linux Sharp zaurus, or maybe an OQO.
The Tapwave Zodiac is superior. It has a much nicer form factor, can use 2 SD cards at the same time, Nice loud stereo speakers, a real 3d GPU, and good battery life. It also has several good EMUs for just about every cartridge console system. made.:
http://www.palmsource.com/interests/emulators/
http://www.palmemu.com/
http://www.kalemsoft.com/
http://www.codejedi.com/
Science is the Real TRUTH!
Palm source released Colbalt almost 10 months ago. I was expecting the T5 to have palm OS6, does anyone know what the scoop is?
I'm just hoping and praying that with OS 6 they clean up the horrible accreted apology for an operating system that is OS 5. But chances are PalmOS 6 will just be the same mess as before with even more extra functions and layer after layer of backwards compatiblity functions and even more horribly it will be both little endian with big endian for the legacy functions and so on. Yeuch! Asking for a C++ API is like asking for sugar coating on a turd.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
I'm tired of having to choose between the latest T and Treo from Palm to get the features promised for both. If the Treo 650 ("Ace") slated for delivery this quarter can't drive an SDIO WiFi card, or doesn't come with integrated Bluetooth, Palm will have failed to operate as a serious company. Their engineers seem able to roll out the tech, so I'm guessing their marketdroids, as usual, need execution.
--
make install -not war
Shipping a PDA without WiFI is not like shipping without tires - it's like shipping without a car cover, a needles item I do NOT want to pay for.
A lot of people have bluetooth phones now and that is a FAR more preferable way to get network connectivity, as the connection will go where I do and the battery will last MUCH longer.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Does it have a keyboard yet?
I think the problem is not that this will be a bad device, but rather that it has nothing that distinguishes it as the flagship of the palmone brand. The device doesn't have a cool slider, camera, wifi, or really anything to make it stand out in a crowd. Advertising "trickle charging" and "USB drive" don't make me think "Wow, palmOne has really neat things". I'll take a cheaper handheld and a jumpdrive. palmOne needed a device that calls people's attention back to them, especially since PPC devices are getting to be pretty darn cool. This is a better Tungsten E, but labeled as their flagship device. Is it really the best they can do?
kind of sad that is not a player inthe Palm market any more. They offered good alternatives to the models offered by Palm themselves.
When I look at the new Tungsten I don't find a superior to the TH55 from Sony despite the 256 Meg built in RAM.
Palm: Please give me a TH55 without the f***ing Memory Stick and an SD-card slot instead. Would be everything I need.
Bye egghat.
-- "As a human being I claim the right to be widely inconsistent", John Peel
We still support more platforms, Palm devices, and other things than Palm themselves supports. Sure, we can't afford to go out and buy every new device the day they're released, but we catch up fast.
We're already significantly faster (20% to 60% in most cases) than Palm's own implementation on OSX and Linux and Unix (three platforms they don't support at all!).
Contrary to what Palm states, they do not support Mac/OSX at all. Mark/Space (endorsed by Palm) does through their MissingSync product, but... Mark/Space's product relies on our code to function. How ironic is that ;)
Now only if they can add biometric security to the PDAs. None of the Palm OS based PDAs have fingerprint scanners like a couple of IPaqs do. Fingerprint authentication on IPaq has proven to be very useful to some. It would be a great value addition to Palm PDAs.
;-)
Just my $0.02
- Jalil Vaidya
I think with this model PalmOne has pretty much demonstrated that they're just not that committed to the conventional PDA business anymore. The real flagship and barometer of the company's future is the Treo 600. The 650 is in production now, with a high-rez screen and Bluetooth, a they have announced the intention of offering low-cost Treo's as well.
The hard-core PDA users, who have been screeming for built-inWiFi, are a niche market, and are probably better off with Pocket PCs. Since the PDA market is just a (relatively) small side business for Dell and HP, they can continue to pursue this market. PalmOne is a relatively small company compared to those giants, and has been fighting for survival the last few years. They just cannot afford to cater to any market that's not profitable.
I'll be all over the Treo 650 myself.
-G
www.pixelstatic.com
Contrary to what some users and hobbyists like you believe, there are other users with real needs out there that require these two functionality. I have developed several apps (not simple GUI forms apps) for Palm and can tell you the lack of these two things really hurt Palm in the business environment. I don't understand why some users get so religous over marketing hype created by a company. Palm's marketing department won you over with the keep it so simple as to be stupid mantra. However, the enterprise sees a definite use of PDAs for other tasks such as wireless communication to sync up remote apps with the server. Palm cannot do this very well. PocketPC and Symbian are definitely better alternatives to Palm in business environment.
Please, if all you do is use email, calendar, play games, read pdfs, play music, and Palm 5.x is ok for YOU, don't spread your ignorance by disparaging the real benefits of the competition just because you currently don't have a use for them. Ken Olsen of DEC once ask why anyone would need a personal PC. Think about it!
The right tool for the right job! Religion and discrimination need not apply.
Call me an old fart, but I liked the way my Psion 3 and Psion 5 worked. I've played with WinCE devices, had a Palm 3c and now a Sony TH55. The hardware is great: nice small package, good color screen, wifi & bluetooth. But the PalmOS is not my thing. What I hate is the way that all the information is scattered through the whole damn thing. I need to go to the addresbook to get some addresses, then browse to the memopad to find memo's, then browse to a spreadsheet to get some data.
On an old Psion I could make a subdirectory for a project and gather all my address files/database files/spreadsheets/memo's for that project in 1 place. Just tap on the file and it opened. Brilliant concept. But maybe I'm just not getting the "Palm" way of thinking.
But Palm is the only reasonably working PDA at the moment. Psion 5 is to old hardware-wise and the PocketPC2003 tries to hard to be a windows machine with a too small screen.
PalmOne just abandoned the Universal Connector. This is mind-bogglingly stupid.
Every time they change their connector, they kill all the accessories that work with that connector. I don't know why any third-party companies would ever make accessories for PalmOne PDA ever again.
If I bought a T5, I wouldn't be able to use my folding keyboard with it, my modem, or my rechargeable battery pack. I guess I could buy new ones, but no thank you, since the ones I have work so well.
I suppose they are doing this because the new connector costs them less money. The Universal Connector has both USB and a serial port, and a whole bunch of little pins. If I were in a good mood, I might say that a manufacturing company does need to keep an eye on their cost of goods.
But Palm has changed their connector so many times now! The third-party accessory makers were unhappy when Palm adopted it, but Palm promised this was the last connector change, honest. Last for three years, I guess.
And what kind of crack are they smoking... stereo out through the connector? Oh, I guess they weren't trying to keep an eye on costs after all. An iPod has stereo out through the connector, and that's valuable because you can have hours of music on one. A Palm PDA can play music, and that's valuable because you have it with you wherever you go, and you don't need to carry both a PDA and a music player. But how valuable is it to have a PDA that can play a couple of hours of music while it is in its cradle? How hard is it to plug speakers into the stereo headphones jack, anyway?
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
The Universal Connector has both USB and a serial port, and a whole bunch of little pins. ...And a lousy connection. The Palm UC was hardly the end all be all of connectors. It was a crappy interface, because it failed on the one primary function that connectors MUST succeed: connection.
Trying to use a cable attached to the UC was/is an annoying task. The damn thing jsut doesn't stay connected. I say good bye and good riddance.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
Then the Visor Edge should have been sold like pancakes, but it didn't. Obviously, you (and I) are not mojority. |-(
Unfortunately (depending on who you ask - personally I'm a PocketPC fan) Palm-powerred devices are going down the drain in terms of market share. They made the right decision in splitting off their hardware and OS department. I'd expect to see PalmOS go into more appliances - the Tapwave Zodiac is a great example of this. One thing that's always irked me is the attitude of the Palm community in general with new features. It's basically "we don't need that!" when presented with a competing platform's feature, and lo and behold, 2-3 generations later, it's being touted as a huge feature, and people are clamoring over it! For reference's sake, I've used a PalmOS IIIxe, a iPaq H3600, H3900, and a Tapwave Zodiac. Carry the Zodiac, but primarily because of emulators.
how many posts did you whore this on?
What Palm has essentially done is eliminating syncing - 10X faster and easier - no drivers no new software to learn or install.
Call me a troll but, palm customer service sucks. My very under warranty T3 lost a screw from the slider so I though, no problem, I'll call and have a helpful rep. send a replacemnet. I get the customer service nightmare from a far away land on the line telling me sorry but the device falling apart is not covered under warranty (one wonders at this point what a warranty is). But, I can send it in for advance exchange for $150(don't remember exact amount). The device just needed a screw! Long story short - I got the screw from hobby supply store after the web sites palm reccomended did not have the right piece, and looked like they never did. Any company that makes customers hurt so much for a missing screw, I have to say good bye to. T5, T6, T7, etc.... adios.
One thing that's always irked me is the attitude of the Palm community in general with new features. It's basically "we don't need that!" when presented with a competing platform's feature, and lo and behold, 2-3 generations later, it's being touted as a huge feature, and people are clamoring over it!
> Ha ndera330)
And, of course, Palm affecianados are all identical and speak with one unified voice, like Slashdot.
I think it's stupid that Palm has let the WinCE crowd goad them into a spiral of creeping featuritis - Until they make a color screen that has lower power draw than a B/W model, I'm still going to be in favor of B/W screens, to be honest - Having to lug a charger (Or even THINK about one) is a pain in the ass.
By all means, keep your Game Platform/Movie Viewer/Radio receiver, and I wish you all the luck in the world with it - Just realize that it's not neo-ludditisim to not want to plow your fields with the wingtip of a jet fighter.
(1000->PPPersonal->TRGPro->Handera330->Treo180-