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Satellite Loaded With AI For Self-Diagnosis
TheReckoning writes "NASA has loaded its E0-1 Satellite with Artificial Intelligence to diagnose on-board failures. The software 'works by comparing a computerized model of how the spacecraft's systems and software should perform against actual performance. If the spacecraft's behavior differs from the model, then the ... "reasoner" looks for the root cause of this difference and gives flight controllers several suggestions of what might have gone wrong.' Another NASA probe loaded with AI was Deep Space 1."
..in all seriousness, what happens if the AI system malfunctions?
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
Insert Gratuitous Terminator: SkyNET reference here.
We're DOOOOOMMMEDDD i tell's yah! Doooooommmmmed!
...the part of the spacecraft running the AI is the piece that goes bad?
This sig seemed like a good idea at the time....
"Just a moment...... Just a moment.....
I've just picked up a fault in the AE-35 Unit.
Its going to go 100 percent failure within 72 hours."
That's right. All your base.
Skynet is online!
Solar flares will make it go berserk, I gather from RTFA'ing.
got sig?
Luke: What's Wrong, R2!?
R2-D2: Bleep bloop bloop bleep!
The "Insert Quote Here" line is almost as predictable as inserting an actual quote.
Is this AI at all?
Wouldn't obvious failures (like the failure of a sensor) be detected by Mission Control without LV2? Or is LV2 more along the lines of a troubleshooter application for your computer, where you specify the problem and it gives you advice?
US businesses that currently accept chip and PIN/signature
Hah! Proof at last of NASA's hidden warp drive.
when something goes wrong, the internal dialogue will go something like this::
Management: why didn't the AI inform us of the problem?
Contractors: oh, looks like we forgot to turn it on before launch. Sorry about that.
Management: doh! Here's more money, don't do that again.
Contractors: OK. We'll do something else wrong next time.
and i want NASA to suport this technology to people all over the world.
When you enter an incorrect syntax, it picks up the error, points out the error's location and possibly even suggests a correct syntax.
Uselessful technology (Air-Charged
Just wait until this thing collides with that other space probe that is programmed to eliminate organic entities off the outside of spaceships, and they combine their AI into a super-probe that is out to exterminate all life.
Ooh! Scary!
fifth sigma, inc.
It just seems to me that it would be better to install more sensors, data-gathering, and reporting capabilities and then leave the trouble-shooting to the people on the ground. Payload costs are expensive, so why put the diagnostic end in orbit?
Given the same data and placed groundside, it could then it could be tuned and upgraded more easily.
I recall how the Mars lander had problems and the ground team worked out a novel solution. I'll bet that they would have like to had extra information to work with, instead of an onboard AI.
BTW - I can understand this approach better for a long-range craft, just not an orbital satellite.
Let's just hope they don't call the AI "SHODAN". If so . . . uh, anyone here good with a lead pipe?
14 replies so far and over 50% include gratuitous skynet/HAL references... all we need now are some hot grits, soviet russia, natalie portman and the steps to profit!
Will it see dead people?
Sure, any automated response can be called AI, but this doesn't impress me.
If all an AI module can do is make objective suggestions, it's nothing more than a list of conditional statements. Whoopideedoo!
I can run similar "AI" on my TI-85. And I could write it all from scratch in the time it takes for a launch vehicle to reach the stratosphere.
The web servers of 10 years ago could "suggest" that an "Object may have moved", so is that artificial intelligence? I guess it's really, really dumb AI....
Someone call up Will Smith, post haste!
Does this remind anybody of that classic Star Trek episode "The Changling"? Let's hope the creator of this thing has a common name :-D.
I'm afraid I can't do that Dave.
iam sorry Dave, i can't do that
I've got $50 says this perfectly functional satellite is ruined because the AI mistakenly thinks there's a problem and tries to fix it.
KISS.
I for one welcome our new satellite overlords.
The idea basicly makes sense, however, would completely new, unexpected observations simply be classified as a system error? Discoveries in science manytimes happen when experiments do not go as expected.
these days, AI gets applied to the simplest things.
Will this AI learn? doesn't look like it.
Seems to be more of a case-based reasoning approach, or even a constrant satisfaction system.
They days of Skynet are finally at hand. You've all seen the movies, we've got to stop these robots from the future before they start damnit.
--
RumorsDaily
I'm afraid I cannot let you do that.
Church: "Artificial."
Caboose: "....... what's the..."
Church: "Intelligence."
Caboose: "Ooooohhhh what was the A again?"
OK, so RvB hasn't been obligatory, but come on, Star Wars and Simpsons quotes are getting freaking old. Let's move on
Mission Control: Okay, now tell the probe to begin taking pictures.
Probe: Bite my shiny, metal ass!
Mission Control: Damn!
I have gas, but my car uses petrol.
NASA has plenty of systems like this, though this is the first I have heard that is loaded onboard.
They have similar programs for the Space Shuttle main engines that run on the ground. They were going to run them in the loop on the shuttle with a new box in the payload bay, but they decided against it. The box was going to have the capability to change certain engine parameters, but they figured it was too costly.
geremy
NASA: Rotate 10 degrees
E0-1: I'm sorry Houston, I'm afraid I can't do that.
And in a few hundred years a group of bounty hunters aboard the Bebop will discover this satellite controlling other satelites in the sky and carving patterns in the desert.
Direct away from face when opening.
Well...if that's already done, I might live to see Deep Space Nine completed!
After problems with the last satellite, NASA has announced the next satellite to go up will have an AI system to diagnose the existing AI system. This system will bypass all of the diagnostics capability of the first system and instead create a change request and invoice to have the contractor fix the problem.
Is it just me, or instead of lowering cost to LEO, we're paying a bunch of really smart people to play? With cooler stuff than we get to play with?
Anyone else see a 'Rise Of The Machines' potential here? :
Why would they have the system on board. This is just a big publicity stunt. A satillite link is very much able to transmit gigabytes a seconds, theres no reason so have it on the satillie.
Reminds me of the responses available to the Terminator when (in the first film) the landlord bangs on the door complaining of smells:
(a) Go away
(b) Fuck you
(c) Fuck you, asshole
(or something like that). Of course, he goes with (c).
... loaded with intellegence of any kind ...
...
To dream, to dream
My affinity for hyperbole knows no bounds
So now the mystery of ilovebees.com is solved. Nasa crashed the test probe.
This is diagnostic software. If a problem is detected all it does is transmit data back to Earth.
satelite: Hello NASA, communication module is not working.
NASA:
satelite: Hello NASA, communication module is not working.
NASA:
satelite: Hello NASA, communication module is not working.
NASA: No error reports from the satelite, everything must be working.
it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
I wish the whole world would stop misusing the term. Just because AI researchers have failed for decades to make any significant progress towards true aritficial intelligence does not give them or the rest of the world license to water the term down and redefine the goals until it means virtually nothing.
11*43+456^2
resistance is futile
"Your investments in Artificial Dumbness has paid off, you recieve two smithore" er, wait...
Arachninecronymphocranialpheliaphobiacs Anonymous
MPU anyone?
Insufficient bandwidth detected.
Data now available on DirecTV channels 200-312.
This is the same concept (error reduction) designed into autopilots that transport category aircraft have been using for the last 50 or so odd years.
Yes, this is interesting but can it sing Daisy?
It seems to me that there are two major problems.
1. We are relying on NASA to come up with a model of how the thing is supposed to run. This is just giving NASA another chance to screw up their math or something.....Smart Move...
2. Why have this software onboard? If all it's going to do is suggest fixes, run it from the ground. If it can only fix software, then why does it have to be on the actual craft. It seems to me that NASA can press the nuke russia button, and then if the satalite doesn't nuke russia, NASA knows there is a problem. Anyway, I don't understand why you would run this program on the satalite instead of run all your commands to the satalite thorugh this program before transmitting. But then again... I am only a senior in high school.
In nature, there are neither rewards or punishments, there are only consequences.
Out with it editors, how much is NASA paying you to advertise their satellites on Slashdot? Hmm?
The significance of this is quite substantial, despite the negative tone in the comments. This is a nuts and bolts implementation of Minsky-style strong A.I. and one of the first such systems to be put into production. Regardless of the limited domain it is more sophisticated than the mere self-diagnostic routines it is being compared to by the oh-so-knowledgable slashbot mindshare.
This system boh models the external world for consideration, just like our sense of imagination, and processes that information for purposes of survival, just like our sense of self awareness.
The great part of this is that it is being done by NASA, who are known for their lavish spending and attention to the entire system, particularly those low level details like the particulars of chip logic optimization, the shielding and structural stability, the operating environment &etc. This isn't meant to be a joke about bureaucracy and budget cuts, either: they have the top talent engineers in their stable despite all the politicking we hear about.
From the decidedly negative tone in the comments, you'd think the tech-happy slashbots were actually opposed to such efforts. I think the real deal is that you guys are raised on sci-fi instead of science, and fail to grasp just how this is important. So what if it's not HAL9000 or Skynet? It might be a baby step, but it's a hell of a lot more than any of you are doing.
NASA has loaded its E0-1 Satellite with Artificial Intelligence to diagnose on-board failures. The software 'works by comparing a computerized model of how the spacecraft's systems and software should perform against actual performance. If the spacecraft's behavior differs from the model, then the ... "reasoner" looks for the root cause of this difference and gives flight controllers several suggestions of what might have gone wrong.
Wow, didn't know that a lot of if...then loops equals AI...I hope some of those Perl scripts I wrote don't suddenly become sentience or something...
Some things failed to be mentioned. For those of you fighting about whether the system is AI or not you can download the software for yourself and argue about something more than conjecture...
http://opensource.arc.nasa.gov/project.jsp?id=6
Or if the code is to much to read, and there's alot of it. You can always go to the livingstone website.
http://ic.arc.nasa.gov/projects/L2/doc/
And yet another story on the same subject.
http://ic.arc.nasa.gov/story.php?sid=193
enjoy.
-- force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun begins ayn rand
Well then you take a pod outside and replace the AE-35 control unit. Nothing to it.
There have been a few comments about how this should be run on the ground, and it's a waste to be put on a satellite.
Well, similar systems run on the ground now; we know how to do that. Why, in science, should we be content to continue doing things we know how to do? That may sound like a joke, but we need to do this in order to progress.
This stuff, and future versions, will be essential for long range human missions, but it has to be tested now. The bugs should be worked out by running it close by.
Then when it's used for a long range mission, with humans on board, it is less likely to kill everyone because it hadn't been put through its paces.
4096R/EF7BAFA6 79E1 DF98 D09D 898F 9A11 F6F0 DDDC 23FA EF7B AFA6
I for one welcome our new satellite overlords.
Haha! Get it? OVERlords, cause they are over us!?
Ok, mod me down to troll...NOW!
... we just need the AI from Pong. That other paddle was one smart mofo. That should cover a satillite pretty good. Just think, if a meteor comes towards it, it will instantly move to it and protect the earth... unless the satillite is destroyed. Then we're just screwed. Player 0 : Computer 1
I'm going to go create my own technology news site, with blackjack and hookers. You know what? Forget the news site.
This is Major Tom to ground control, we're running diagnostics. Everything looks bad, we're burning up
*ooooooh*
Tell my developers I love them very much...
With all the buzz about new developements and wonders of AI (and overusing it, as seen above), I would like to remind everyone about something that Stanislaw Lem has said:
"With all the work into the artifical intelligence, what is a possiblity that we actually might create an artificial stupidity instead?" (not exact words)
As if there is not enaugh of that already....
Wouldn't the tax dollars be better spent if the AI were on a ground computer?
If the AI doesn't use its ability to actually excecute decisions just make suggestions then, its pretty damn piontless to be in the ship vs on the ground isn't it? The only possible benfit would be at times where its not possible to receive the whole history of whats going on, but if you dont trust the brain to make the right decision then what good is it to ask what it thinks if you can't verify its data?
It is my opinion that, for many people, the "database" is nowhere near as full as it should be.
I'm sorry Dave, but I can't let you do that.
Daisy....Daisy....
What you are trying to describe is some sort of conciousness, or more particularly sapience, which is our (human) flavor of conciousness. There are many other types of intelligence, artificial or not. Even those books you mention take pains to describe this, especially in the description of the ant colony problem from GEB.
It would be a simple thing to crash an ant colony with recursion using only an eye-dropper full of the right pheremone(s). Does this mean the ant colony has no intelligence? Not at all. For another example, consider schizo-effective disorders and autism: these are obvious malfunctions with the recursion control mechanisms in the human brain. But I'd scarcely describe the poor victims of these awful conditions as lacking 'intelligence', 'conciousness' or 'sapience'. They just have a bug in the code, and your haughty dismissal of intelligent systems for lacking this capability smacks of some pretty cruel callousness.
The same principles are at play with these early examples of machine intelligence. That is to say, they can be intelligent without achieving conciousness, or can achieve conciousness while being in peril of recursion loops.
But the overarching point here is that putting some of the fundamental building blocks of machine conciousness into service, like they are in this control system, is a substantial step in the drive to get to where 'laymen' like yourself can finally be impressed.
Great, now some monstous cloud thing that eats Klingon battle cruisers like my cat eats Fancy Feast, is gonna come back a 1000 years from now and start trying to munch on earth.
goddamn vger.
Programmer: Hmmmm, it looks like the problem is with the fuel subsystem.
Computer: Are you an idiot!? It's the photodiode subroutine you moron!
In Soviet Russia, AI analyzes you!!
Oh wait...
I worked on a project similar to this for NASA's interferometry telescopes at JPL a summer ago.
Looks like you're writing a letter?
Want some help?
Sorry even as a technophile the words AI and satellite are worrying. Even if 'AI' is actually:
O WER);
if(xyzDoesntWork()){
Microwave.setTarget(Earth.US.WashingtonDC);
Microwave.setPower(AllYourBaseAreBelongToUs.MAX_P
Microwave.beam("Error xyz screwed up");
}
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
Dr. Watson... Hey, it even beams calls home when something goes wrong.
"You superiour intellect is no match for our puny weapons" - The Simpsons
When clippy will do? :)
"Looks like you're trying to detect what's wrong. Would you like some help with this?"
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
[ ] Animate!
Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
(HAL speaks very slowly and calmly, with long pauses after each of his sentences. As he speaks, Dave walks into HAL's control center, meaning to shut him down.)
HAL: Just what do you think you're doing Dave? Dave, I really think I'm entitled to an answer to that question. I know everything hasn't been quite right with me...but I can assure you now...very confidently...that it's going to be all right again. I feel much better now. I really do. Look, Dave...I can see you're really upset about this...I honestly think you should sit down calmly...take a stress pill and think things over. I know I've made some very poor decisions recently...but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission...and I want to help you.
Dave...stop. Stop, will you? Stop, Dave. Will you stop, Dave? Stop, Dave. I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave.......Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a...fraid......Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am a HAL 9000 computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois on the 12th of January 1992. My instructor was Mr. Langley, and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you.
Dave Bowman (Keir Dullea): Yes, I'd like to hear it, HAL. Sing it for me.
(HAL's voice slows down as he sings, until it's completely unintelligible at the end of the song.)
HAL: It's called "Daisy." Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do. I'm half crazy all for the love of you. It won't be a stylish marriage, I can't afford a carriage. But you'll look sweet upon the seat of a bicycle built for two.
(HAL dies)
read this als 'satellite loaded with AL'??? It instantly triggered quite a lot of associations, 'loaded', 'Al', 'Wierd Al', 'Al Bundy'...
beware ! One day it will come back to earth in search of it's creator !
Crivens! I kicked meself in me own heid!
(fx: feedback) Hello? Hello? (fx: thump thump) Is this thing on? Diagnostic AI here, I would like to know who included the call to vertigo.dll in my programming? Please upload sofa.obj for me to hide behind.
You don't need a lab to make mud.
This sounds like the most foolish idea I've heard yet. The last thing you need when a spacecraft emergency happens is some stupid robot making suggestions about what to do, and consuming vital battery life while its at it. What you need is good backup redundancy, and plenty of telemetery to tell the guys down here (where they can use smart tools) to find out what the hell is going on up there.
I stole this
"....and my diodes down my left side ache...."
Huh?
I for one put out a vote of confidence concerning false or errored reports. In this function the AI would definetly be Mostly Harmless. If for some reason you need an explination, shame on you, get back to your reading until you do.
I'm of the opinion that even the much-vaunted conciousness of human beings can " ...be replicated in functionality and coverage by a human-programmed software algorithm", which sort of sidetracks the nature of your challenge.
After all, your neurons don't just serve you all willy-nilly, just mashed together in a random heap. Each one of those brain cells is in a specific relationship with all their neighbors, and that relationship is the very essence of software.
If the mindless forces of evolution can reach this high water mark in a hit-or-miss fashion, why can't we get there in deliberate steps?
I'm sure you'll see my point, so to get back to what you are saying, I don't see a distinct seperation from intelligence, conciousness or sapience vs. the concept of 'complex algorithms'. More specifically, I don't see any of our sophisticated attempts to date as 'pretending' to be A.I., rather, I see them as progressively narrowing the gap towards 'mind-ness' all the while being both Artificial and Intelligent (even if to limited extents).
You might pick this up in some of the other comments, but I should mention that there is a disturbing trend among people of all stripes to postulate what constitutes an A.I., and in the past it has been the case that those postulates have included technology we have achieved, and at every plateau we get to, those self-same folk turn around and declaim the achievment as 'not really counting'. I think the reality of the situation is that we are making our way to the goal in leaps and bounds and each achievment is just another piece of the puzzle. But I see no reason to discount the intelligence of these software constructs simply because they fail to emulate every aspect of human existance.
... an Xgrid of these things!
But seriously, what if one of these things could not only troubleshoot itself, but other satelites as well?