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BitTorrent Accounts for 35% of Traffic

Pranjal writes "According to a reuters article on Yahoo, BitTorrent accounts for an astounding 35 percent of all the traffic on the Internet -- more than all other peer-to-peer programs combined -- and dwarfs mainstream traffic like Web pages." The article goes on to talk about how BT is no longer beneath the radar of those who like to sue file sharers.

168 of 788 comments (clear)

  1. Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Interesting

    At least under U.S. law, it's a bit more difficult to find the makers liable as long as the software is capable of being used for innocent uses, which I think (BitTorrent) surely is."

    But that doesn't mean that they won't be sued into bankruptcy anyway. Anybody want to bet that is (MP/RI)AAs next move? Sue the creator and coders of the various BitTorrent applications to bully people who might consider writing useful P2P software in the future?

    Of course I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for anybody caught infringing on software/movie/music copyrights with BitTorrent. It's not anonymous by any means -- and the trackers provide a nice centralized target. Isn't it clear that BitTorrent wasn't designed with copyright infringement in mind?

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    1. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by XiQ · · Score: 5, Funny

      Doesn't look like they can bankrupt Bram Cohen much more than he was some time ago...

    2. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by agoliveira · · Score: 5, Informative

      The answer in in the question itself: don't develop/store in USA.
      This kind of software is not ilegal here in Brazil, for instance.

      --
      Scientia est Potentia
    3. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by happyfrogcow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not illegal in the U.S., either. Any lawyer worth the paper their degree is printed on should be able to defend such a case without backrupting anyone.

      Sorry, but this anti-U.S. FUD will be a self fullfilling prophecy if you all keep it up. It's not illegal in the U.S., once in a while, a developer might have to bit the bullet and go to court. It's not the end of the world.

    4. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The answer in in the question itself: don't develop/store in USA.
      This kind of software is not ilegal here in Brazil, for instance.

      It's not "illegal" in the United States either. I was saying they would be sued not charged. Huge difference. Anybody can sue you for anything. Unless they are grossly abusing the system (and the Judge orders them to pay defense costs) it is going to cost you money to mount your legal defense.

      And the "just write this software overseas" argument is old. Most of us aren't willing to give up our American citizenship and move overseas just to escape legal liabilities. I'm not saying that to flame -- it's just the truth. There are more constructive suggestions then "do it elsewhere".

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    5. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by TykeClone · · Score: 4, Funny
      without backrupting anyone.

      You misspelled "while bankrupting everyone"

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    6. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by mordors9 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As I recall when they were suing the other P2P users, they were using a formula that took the number of songs being shared by some dollar amount. That was why people with huge libraries that were being shared, were being sued for astronomical amounts. With torrent users, there is only the one song that the user is currently downloading that is easily discoverable. So for the average user, how will they generate the large damage figures.... oops I forgot, they can just make up a figure for damages.

    7. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by nkh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For the first time in my life I wrote a useful program: a BT client! The protocol is very easy to understand and the client easy to write. I would hate to be sued for just writing some stupid code on a keyboard and I know now what is the real difference between creating tools and using them to infringe on copyrights. Unix is a tool, someone could use it to wreak havoc across the earth but it's still a great tool. BT works great for big files which can be either Linux ISOs or DivX. Of course I don't expect the justice of my country to understand between a Linux and a DivX...

    8. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by AndroidCat · · Score: 3, Insightful
      If you can, could you make your client quicker to timeout on trying a particular IP address when they disconnect and DHCP reassigns the IP to someone else? (P2P software for all protocol is awful in that respect.)

      It's a little annoying to have swarms of people try for days afterwards. I almost feel like writing a program to answer and provide a fuxor response to them.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    9. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by flyneye · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not to detract from your paranoia,but I'm still curious as to the legitimacy of the source of the factoid presented.
      Who says that torrents are 35% of traffic?
      Who are they to say so and what credentials and rigor did they use?

      after all this is reuters...

      newsclowns anyway....

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    10. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by antiMStroll · · Score: 4, Informative

      Use Peergurardian and Blocklist Manager. Not 100% bulletproof but still a greatway to protect your computer from most unwanted visitors.

    11. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by shadowjk · · Score: 5, Informative

      The university through which my own university's connectivity is provided, has quite a hefty firewall setup, with the capacity to classify traffic based on content rather than port usage. They then later used this to setup traffic shaping and limit p2p activity to a mere fraction of what it was before.

      As the hotlinking whore I am, I will just link to their week-long sampling of traffic, which shows that BitTorrent accounted for 44% of outgoing traffic. This is before traffic shaping. No graphs of after-traffic shaping has been provided (yet).

      In: http://www.cc.utu.fi/verkko/maarat/sisaan.png
      Out: http://www.cc.utu.fi/verkko/maarat/ulos.png

      Translation:
      Muut = Other
      Rest should be self-explanatory.

    12. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by pthisis · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's not "illegal" in the United States either.

      Yes it is. It's not criminal, but it is illegal. The fact that you won't be prosecuted by the DA but rather sued in civil court doesn't mean that it's not illegal.

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    13. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by nomadic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not necessarily. You can sue someone for breaching a contract, for example, but it's not illegal to breach one.

    14. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by LordLucless · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who says anything about American's moving overseas? American's don't have to emigrate for development to happen overseas. What will happen though, as the US gets more and more tied down with stuff like software patents, and authors being sued when people dont like your customers, is that software development in the US will slow. And that means that when there is a demand for software, it won't be American that fulfils it. America is legislating away its dominant position in the software market.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    15. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 5, Informative

      For those interested, PeerGuardian is here.

    16. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by erichill · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I would hate to be sued for just writing some stupid code on a keyboard...

      Obviously the keyboard makers are at fault for producing such blatantly enabling technology. Let them get sued.

      --
      Credo sim. - I think I am.
    17. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by welsh+git · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Errrm, when Joe User shuts down his client before the remote p2p client goes away and the IP is reassigned, his cache will hold the address as it was still valid.

      When he then starts his client 3 days later, that IP will be there, and a connection attempted.

      Multiply that by all the people who will only start their client every few days, and you get the situation where it can take a while for stale IP addreses to be lost - the client timeout will be irrelevant then - unless you also specify clients expire addresses on age - even if the client has been shutdown for a while - but in that case, a client that has been offline for a few days would come back up with no valid seeds!

      --
      Sig out of date
    18. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by magarity · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My university also tries to limit p2p software but they've overlooked something in being too smart. The wireless network is on a DMZ that doesn't pass through the filter before getting to the wild internet. So while p2p on cable is dismally slow, 3-7KBps, I get 100kbps+ off good torrents while wireless. Sometimes I feel bad for everyone nearby trying to use the wireless for actual academic work when I want to get a large file.

    19. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by gbjbaanb · · Score: 4, Funny

      I just looked at the methlabs peerguardian page.. it says:

      PeerGuardian
      "100% accuracy , 0% CPU usage, blocking of ALL protocols, kernel-level


      yeah, I unplug my network cable occasionally too :)

    20. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by tylernt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "what is the real difference between creating tools and using them"

      Whoa, there. By that logic, we shouldn't be able to sue those evil companies that make those nasty guns. Are you saying that it's the USER, not the creator, that's at fault when a program or firearm is misused?! Preposterous!

      [/sarcasm]

      --
      DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
    21. Re:Prediction: The creators get sued anyway by Horizon_99 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Amen brother, I don't go anywhere without my mutated anthrax... for duck huntin'

  2. I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Informative
    Common Legal Uses:

    Linux and BSD ISOs (duh)
    Video Game Demos (those things are getting huge!)
    eBook Collections (e.g. Gutenburg)
    Publicly Available Videos (e.g. Star Trek fan videos, Presidential Debates, funny commercials)
    Software Distribution (How can a database application be more 1 gig in size?!)
    Website Content Mirrors (e.g. PDFs, promotional videos, images, etc.)

    That's a LOT of content right there. Can anyone think of items I'm missing?
    1. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Homemade pr0n, of course!

    2. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by grub · · Score: 5, Funny


      Presidential Debates, funny commercials

      You put a comma where "aka" should be.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    3. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by PSUdaemon · · Score: 5, Funny

      Porn? I mean, isn't that what this whole crazy internet thing is for?

    4. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by loconet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It used to be ok to share funny commercial clips but sadly some of them might not be legal anymore.

      --
      [alk]
    5. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by Noksagt · · Score: 3, Informative

      Live concert recordings with explicit permission from the copyright holders.

    6. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by RobPiano · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Anime which hasn't/won't come out in the US is legal to download unless it has been licensed. It is probably the most popular use of legal bit torrent due to shear volume of episodes.

    7. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by crisco · · Score: 3, Informative

      Blizzard has also used it to distribute World of Warcraft videos. And Bram was working with Valve on Steam (NYT article), another legitimate use in the gaming world.

      --

      Bleh!

    8. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by NiceGeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "How about controversial documents, like arguments against the authenticity of the moon landing, or against evolutionary theory?"

      I'm sorry....is someone trying to ban these? I think the biggest problem people who propose those ideas face is that their ideas are drivel.

    9. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by keyne9 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      World of Warcraft's delivery system via Blizzard uses a form of BitTorrent. They honestly need it for the Closed/Open Betas and Stress Tests as the whole program weighs in around 2.7Gb.

    10. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by eyeball · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm on the board of directors at a Buddhist center, and we have discussed distributing audio and video recordings of our teachings. The major barrier to doing something like this (especially for free to the community) is cost. I haven't brought up BT yet, but I probably will soon.

      My biggest concern of course is the inevitable take-down notice we'll 'accidentally' get. We're a non-profit with no money for legal folks, and slightly techophobic directors, so the possibility of legal threats could prevent this.

      --

      _______
      2B1ASK1
    11. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by mcmonkey · · Score: 4, Funny
      google: "torrent" 2,370,000
      google: "torrent anime" 239,000

      google: "torrent anime tentacle" 29,000

      That's the unhealthy 10%

    12. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      They've upgraded the internet, it now contains more than just porn.

    13. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by Handpaper · · Score: 2, Insightful
      At least in terms of music, the bad, infringing type of sharing usually occurs in single song mp3s. The good, wholesome sharing is happening in complete live performance SHN and FLAC.

      Errr... this discussion is about BitTorrent.
      You know, the P2P protocol for sharing large files?

      OK, it went like this...

      First there was Napster and Audiogalaxy (ye gods i miss that one)
      Good for single songs - remember, at that time, most people were on dial-up @ c.20 minutes per track.

      Then there was/is KaZaa, eDonkey, WinMX etc.
      Still mostly single tracks, but with some rar/zipped albums, and with many users on xDSL or cable. 2 minutes/track, 20 for the whole album (although there may be trouble getting less popular tracks)

      As for BT, well, just go look on Suprnova.
      Very few single tracks, mainly albums, with many artists' entire discographies up for download.

      Well, if I download 1 Grateful Dead show, that's more music, by volume, than 300 downloads of the latest from britany or christina.
      It's more music by any measure :)

    14. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by Heisenbug · · Score: 3, Funny

      google: "torrent anime tentacle" 29,000

      Unfortunately "torrent" in that context doesn't mean what you think it means.

    15. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by onepoint · · Score: 2, Funny

      google: torrent anime tentacle penis 8,020

      --
      if you see me, smile and say hello.
    16. Re:I'd love a breakdown of legal vs. illegal files by Noehre · · Score: 2, Funny

      google: torrent anime tentacle penis bukkake pee 2,960

  3. Oh yea. by AltGrendel · · Score: 4, Funny

    And spam uses another 60% I'm sure

    --
    The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination

    - Douglas Adams

  4. C&D time? by phorm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Given that BT requires a link to a .torrent, how hard is it for companies to send a C&D to the ISP/owner of any site hosting illegal .torrent links?

    1. Re:C&D time? by Rew190 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's a bit tricky since the .torrent isn't actually the illegal file you're downloading, and might not necessarily lead to the downloading of the actual file.

    2. Re:C&D time? by mattyrobinson69 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      store the .torrents on servers in china.

    3. Re:C&D time? by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Informative

      Given that BT requires a link to a .torrent, how hard is it for companies to send a C&D to the ISP/owner of any site hosting illegal .torrent links?

      Who says you need to put the .torrent file on a website? I could just as easily DCC it to you on IRC and you could manually key it into your BitTorrent program.

      Not that your point isn't valid -- I'm just pointing out that BitTorrent isn't dependant on a webhost to function.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    4. Re:C&D time? by gl4ss · · Score: 4, Informative

      easy.

      how easy it is to host it somewhere where you can post such files/links(torrents) without fear? just about just as easy.

      for example, piratebay gets such threats regularly. here's one of their responses http://static.thepiratebay.org/sega_response.txt.

      how easy it is for a litigation company to milk a publisher for money, by offering them a service that they'll scan the net for infringiments and then bill them (the publisher) for every c&d they send(and sell it to the ceo's as if this created automagically more income for the publisher, however, conviently for the litigation company the effect of these c&d's on sales can't be measured at all so they got a good milking cow right there without any means for the client to measure their 'performance' ).

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    5. Re:C&D time? by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 2, Funny

      "store the .torrents on servers in china."

      Then I won't be able to download Richard Gere's masterpiece, "Red Square."

    6. Re:C&D time? by Devalia · · Score: 2, Funny

      I have an ingenious plan here.. when they do that we either change the file name, or better yet embed them in pr0n and the like and let them get distracted :)

    7. Re:C&D time? by OverlordQ · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why? . . because all the .torrent contains in the hash information of the file and some IP's. Nothing illegal is contained in the .torrent itself.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    8. Re:C&D time? by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's OK, I'll just search for .torrents on Kazaa...

      Seriously, why couldn't they just put up a torrent of torrents?

      --
      I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
    9. Re:C&D time? by jandrese · · Score: 4, Informative

      The tough part is that the .torrent file is pretty small. Just about anybody can host it, in fact many .torrent files get hosted from several sources online just because they're so small and organizing them is so useful. ISPs have a much tougher time tracking down people who have .torrents hosted because they don't take up massive bandwidth the way they would if the people were hosting .avis or .mp3s directly.

      If you really want to shut down a torrent you need to shut down the tracker. The tracker needs a fair bit of bandwith (noticable by ISPs) and is necessary for the whole thing to work. That said, trackers require an order of magnitude (or two) less bandwidth than people who host files directly, so even these guys can fall under the ISPs radar. Legal challenges can be spotty (some ISPs remove the files immediatly, others (in foreign countries) don't care), and suing the user is obviously not a viable option except as a way to extort money from 8 year old girls.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    10. Re:C&D time? by bgalehouse · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ah, no actually. Tracker doesn't have any part of the file. Well, it has some checksums for the file, but then, those are already in the .torrent.

    11. Re:C&D time? by Foz · · Score: 5, Informative

      Why oh why would you not P2P without a condom? BT Plugins like SafePeer (for Azureus) or applications like Protowall use blacklists from places like Bluetack to filter out known *AA addresses, among others. I don't really know how effective they are, but I'd be curious to hear from people that use them and still get C&D's. I have heard of plenty of people getting C&D's but those people weren't using condoms.

      YMMV of course. I'm not advocating digital theft, nor am I criticizing it. I'm just curious as to why people aren't protecting themselves. Maybe I'm just fooling myself that they work at all, but I'd like to think they do.

      -- Foz

    12. Re:C&D time? by captwheeler · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It's a bit tricky since the .torrent isn't actually the illegal file you're downloading, and might not necessarily lead to the downloading of the actual file.


      IANAL, but that defense can't hold up. A '.torrent' for a file which is illegal to download, is a set of instructions on how to illegally get the file. It's not good for anything else. This is not like a bong you might smoke tobacco from, its like a hand grenade: its only good for one thing, and that one thing is illegal. The fact that it may not work is not a good argument either. What else do you do with a .torrent for getting illegal material?

      --

      Thanks for putting on the feedbag. Thanks for going all out. Thanks for showing me your Swiss Army knife.

    13. Re:C&D time? by magefile · · Score: 2, Funny

      But the Pope is against SafePeer and ProtoWall. The only safe peering is no peering - abstention.

  5. This means... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...we'll all have to change p2p apps again soon, right?

  6. so little HTTP bandwidth? by wankledot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm confused. Are they saying that mainstream web traffic accounts for far less than 35% of the bandwidth the internet consumes? By saying that BT is "dwarfing" the web traffic, that would make me think that something like 5-10% of traffic is HTTP. Am I wrong in finding that hard to believe?

    --
    My sig is blank, I typed this by hand.
    1. Re:so little HTTP bandwidth? by OrangeStar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The reason why this happens is because so many average users are on 56k, they use relatively little bandwith with HTTP traffic. Whereas many torrents are 1GB plus. You would have to visit a hell of a lot of large graphic sites to make up for one torrent. Also, people who use torrents are more likely to download a ton of stuff. Games, can be several GB, each CD is over a 100MB.

      --
      This .sig was pirated on BitTorrent, costing the MPAA millions of dollars.
    2. Re:so little HTTP bandwidth? by Tyler+Eaves · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, I would say it is safe to say that the average file traded over BT is, say, 1GB. That's about typical for the stuff I download via it. Mostly (legal) live concert recordings. A typical webpage is perhaps 100kb. So that's 10,000 webpage views (Probably a weeks worth for even the busiest net addict, probably more like 3 months worth for a typical home user. I often pull 10GB a week via bittorrent (http://bt.etree.org/ is your friend...)

      --
      TODO: Something witty here...
    3. Re:so little HTTP bandwidth? by Thud457 · · Score: 2, Funny

      THe other 65% is Flash .

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    4. Re:so little HTTP bandwidth? by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Am I wrong in finding that hard to believe?

      I'm with you on this one. I'm watching a big chunk of the internet. My top 3 numbers are as follow:

      25% http

      6% gnutella

      5% bittorrent

      Maybe what I'm looking at is atypical, but I'm just not seeing the numbers reported. The article does not seem to list any source for its numbers.

    5. Re:so little HTTP bandwidth? by zokrath · · Score: 2, Informative

      A torrent client can provide you with a sutatined bandwidth load as wide as your pipe is; generally several hundred kB a second for standard broadband, and three or four times that for professional or academic connections. Furthermore these programs are left running twenty four hours a day in most cases, and there are millions of clients running worldwide.

      In contrast, web pages are rather tiny, and you only load one every few minutes, or at most several times a minute. Certainly there are bloated flash-driven monstrosities pretending to be functional web pages, but they are in enough of a minority to not change the numbers by much.

    6. Re:so little HTTP bandwidth? by Short+Circuit · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'll have to send you my personal log of Slashdot accesses sometime...

  7. Someone has to say it by jpmkm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What the FUCK does this have to do with my rights?

    1. Re:Someone has to say it by MooseGuy529 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What...does this have to do with my rights?

      If BitTorrent is given a bad reputation because it can be used for downloading illegal files, then restrictions will be placed on it, and those restrictions will affect your right to download legal files (such as Linux ISO's, legal music, etc...) online. As has been the case with many other P2P services, the mere mention of illegal uses very often brings with it restrictions on, or at least condemnations of, the service. Even this surprisingly balanced article still mentioned first the illegal uses, leaving the legal uses for later when discussing the legal issues behind restricting it.

      --

      Tired of free iPod sigs? Subscribe to my blacklist

  8. Thank god.... by DarkMantle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... that I live in Canada where this is still legal.

    And you guys though that America was the home of the free.

    --
    DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
    1. Re:Thank god.... by Soko · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wrong.

      I got a C&D letter from my ISP, who got one from AOL TimeWarner. My kid downloaded a movie via Bittorrent, and my account was at risk. It wasn't a legal thing other than my TOS with my ISP forbids downloading copyright protected works. Plus, I'm not convinced that trading of copyrighted works without some form of payment to the copyright holder is a good thing. Basically, what you're doing is showing them how large a market there is for thier crap. I'd rather everyone just boycott the crappy content (I gave the kid hell for risking my connection for "The Butterfly Effect") so they get the idea to produce better stuff, not try and suck all the downloaders into paying.

      I now only allow bittorrent when I need an ISO of ubuntu or fedora or something.

      If you're Canadian, be careful.

      Soko

      --
      "Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
    2. Re:Thank god.... by schon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      my TOS with my ISP forbids downloading copyright protected works

      Well, considering that almost *everything* on the internet is protected by copyrighted (thank you, Berne Convention), your ISP must only allow you to visit Project Gutenberg, right?

      What the hell are you doing reading this?!? It's copyrighted! Get the hell off the damn internet before your ISP shuts you down!

    3. Re:Thank god.... by debrain · · Score: 4, Informative

      Both the parent and grandparent seem to touch, but not quite hit, the mark.

      Downloading is protected under, at least, Part VIII of the Copyright Act, which is "private copying". From it, you can infer that you can download as much music as you like. Private copying arose from the days of tape cassettes; it gives musical copyright holders the right to levy blank audio media as a form of remuneration for private copying. It only covers music. Movies and software downloads can violate copyright without permission.

      Uploading was upheld on an evidentiary matter. There was insufficient evidence to show that the user intended to upload the music, but rather uploading seemed to be a side-effect of using the peer to peer software, according to the judge.

      To be clear, the judge did not "legalize" uploading. He simply stated that there was insufficient evidence to show that the user intended to upload, in other words, he never had the mental culpability (ie. mens rea) to have infringed the copyright.

      So, as another posted noted, you can have a shared folder if it is unlikely to be shown that you intended to share its contents, and you can likely download music under the private copying provisions of the Copyright Act.

  9. Anyone with "24, season 3, episode 5"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Post a link to it here. Thank you.

  10. Good thing I use it only for downloading legitmate by vasqzr · · Score: 2, Funny



    I only use it for downloading Linux ISO's. It really is the best way to get them. The old way of FTP sites sucked, especially when a new distribution was released.

    Apparently, someone at my ISP does as well. Since it's the only P2P program that they allow traffic from.

  11. So let me add this up... by MagicDude · · Score: 4, Funny

    35% of internet traffic is BitTorrent
    50% is pr0n
    10% is SPAM
    4% is actual content
    And the remaining 1% is slashdot talking about the 4% of legit websites

    1. Re:So let me add this up... by Al+Dimond · · Score: 5, Funny

      Then where's the room for /. talking about BitTorrent, pornography and spam? Seems to me that the 1% of slashdot can be broken down just about the same way as the rest of the internet... .35% /. talking about BT .5% /. talking about porn .1% /. talking about spam .04% /. talking about actual content .01% /. talking about itself.

      Of that .01%, there can be a similar breakdown: .0035% /. talking about /. talking about BT .005% /. talking about /. talking about porn .001% /. talking about /. talking about spam .0004% /. talking about /. talking about actual content .0001% /. talking about /. talking about...

      Although I'd be willing to be /. spends more than 1% of it's time talking about itself, such as this post, and about 30% of the previous.

      (furthermore, I left out the proportion of /. traffic created by its ugly and stupid layout scheme, that could be less ugly and break less browsers AND use less bandwidth with the miracle of CSS. But I digress.)

  12. Can you be sued for only transferring part? by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One interesting thing about Bittorrent is that most people are getting only a small bit of data from you, and from lots of other people.

    How much material needs to come from your computer in order for them to be able to sue you? If I provided only a second of content (say for a movie) how liable am I then for damages since I'm not providing the whole work?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Can you be sued for only transferring part? by LordNimon · · Score: 2, Informative
      Can you be sued for only transferring part?

      Yes. Any other questions?

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    2. Re:Can you be sued for only transferring part? by matth1jd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      IANAL but I would assume that even though you're not providing the entire work (even if you are seeding a torrent), you could be in trouble.

      You have the following situations:

      You're a seeder of a torrent, so you posses the whole file - at which point you're obviously busted, because you possess copyrighted material obtained illegally.

      You're a peer on the network (or a leech as most are) and you're downloading a given torrent, and uploading to others as well. You're intent is obviously to get the entire file or collection of files. I would have to imagine you're busted here as well, a copyrighted piece of material is just that, and unless you're using it for education purposes - copyright law treats one second the same as a minute or an hour of material. Since your intent is to obtain the whole file, and aid others in the same, I think they have you.

      Again IANAL, but it seems logical...

      --J

    3. Re:Can you be sued for only transferring part? by ironfrost · · Score: 5, Informative

      >copyright law treats one second the same as a minute or an hour of material

      That's not actually true. According to the 1976 Copyright Act, as interpreted by the Subcommittee on Courts and Intellectual Property, Committee on the Judiciary, U.S. House of Representatives (Source):

      (9) Multimedia Material: Up to 10% or 3 minutes, whichever is less, in the aggregate of a copyrighted motion media work may be reproduced without permission. Up to 10%, but in no event more than 30 seconds, of the music and lyrics from an individual musical work (or in the aggregate of extracts from an individual work), whether the musical work is embodied in copies, or in audio or audiovisual works, may be reproduced without permission.

      Considering the way BitTorrent works, a possible defence might be that you're not copying more than 30 seconds of the work from any one source, so your actions are legal. Of course, this is completely against the spirit of the law and would result in further restrictions just as soon as the Government got around to passing them...

  13. I'm not stealing anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    "We're studying our options, as we do with all new technologies which are abused by people to engage in theft."

    Phew, good thing I only use it to engage in copyright infringement.

  14. 35% bittorrent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    My medium:
    35% bittorrent
    64% web
    1% other

    By content:
    99% p0rn
    1% Slashdot

  15. Nobody is suing file sharers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They are suing copyright infringers and only copyright infringers. Get it into your head if you wish to be taken seriously.

    1. Re:Nobody is suing file sharers. by phusikos · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's certainly true. For now at least.

      The problem arises when (MP|RI)AA lobbyists put it into the head of lawmakers that it the applications are partially to blame for the copyright infringement. This is what we saw driving the INDUCE act.

      With Bush's re-election and widening GOP majorities in both houses, I fear that we might see BitTorrent and other P2P systems targetted by a second incarnation of INDUCE. Hopefully the fact that BT isn't anonymous will innoculate against that possibility.

    2. Re:Nobody is suing file sharers. by Ahnteis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Technically, that should read "Suspected" copyright infringers.

  16. BT is not secure by bludstone · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not even remotly secure. People can see what you are downloading, no problems.

    Now, I love torrents. I use them for mostly anime, which the companies have, so far, given us a polite nod to do so. Just take them down when they put in a request, and no scary lawyers. (Although I am confident that this is going to change)

    Of course, torrent has also made people used to convenient downloading of big in-demand files.

    So, what will the *AA's going after BTs do? The same thing that going after p2p has done. Create a new, more secure, more stealthy "sequal" to bittorrent.

    --

    no .sig
    1. Re:BT is not secure by LordLucless · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, it wouldn't solve the problem. That just encrypts the traffic end-to-end, which isn't how the MPAA would get thier information.

      BitTorrent works like this. Download a .torrent file. It tells your BT client the location of the tracker, and a unique ID representing your file. The client opens a connection to the tracker, and requests the IP addresses of some peers. The tracker picks about 20 peers, sends your client the IP addresses, and your client then opens connections to the peers and starts uploading/downloading to them.

      For the MPAA to get IP addresses, all they have to do is connect to the tracker and say "Hey, gimme some IP addresses", and the tracker will gladly oblige. Encrypting the tracker traffic would just mean nobody could eavesdrop on exactly *which* IP addresses the MPAA was receiving.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
  17. It's easy to track down bit torrent downloaders by Serveert · · Score: 4, Informative

    BitTorrent wasn't designed to hide your identity unfortunately.

    It's only a matter of time until they seriously crack down on Bit Torrent which is too bad because it's the only p2p app that will pull down 160KB/sec for me.

    The secret is to allow for unlimited d/l and u/l but then create a perl script to monitor netstat -na and kill those connections via iptables which have a high recv q. Otherwise they'll suck down all your upload bandwidth.

    --
    2 years and no mod points. Join reddit. Because openness is good.
    1. Re:It's easy to track down bit torrent downloaders by System.out.println() · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But if you're only uploading 2% of a given file to someone, are you still liable? if 50 people upload 2% of a file each, who gets nailed for sharing?

      The best answer is the one running the tracker, but then, they're not providing any content.

      So while it's easy to find out who's sending data, it won't be so easy on the legal side to actually prosecute them for it.

  18. Link is slashdotted by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 4, Funny

    Anybody got a torrent?

  19. Re:Death to BT by semifamous · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't believe you.

    Maybe people will find a better method for p2p warez stuff, but right now, BT is great for getting a file quickly because everyone's sharing some of the load.

    "file sharing" != "warez file sharing"

  20. Great legal BT links? by freelunch · · Score: 5, Informative

    How about some torrent sites with great legal content?

    This site is excellent.

    If you have never used BT and watched how it consumes bandwidth, you really ought to check it out. Pretty neat.

    Tools like Etherape will draw funky realtime network connectivity maps. Watching your computer talk to that many other peers makes you feel pretty exposed.

    Azureus is my preferred graphical client under Linux. Any other favorites?

  21. Has Major ISP started to throttle BT? by A5un · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I'm experiencing this and I'm not alone as evidenced here and here.

    Sandvine's product is being speculated as the culprit. More details here. Is there anyway around this? I don't want to be stuck downloading new distros (which are coming soon) with slow BT.

    1. Re:Has Major ISP started to throttle BT? by MachDelta · · Score: 3, Informative

      Try changing ports from the defaults (6881-6889) to something else. I've heard rumours that some ISPs are throttling the transfer rates on those ports in an effort to reduce bandwidth consumption. Not suprising if BT is now sucking back 35% of net traffic. Anyways, try switching over to a different series of ports and see if that helps.

  22. Sad day for file sharing? by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 5, Informative

    BitTorrent was intentionally designed not to hide IP addresses as its developer, Bram Cohen, openly acknowledges. That's because his goal wasn't to develop a P2P tool that could be used to share content illegally but to develop a P2P tool that reduced bandwidth for legally shared content, such as Linux ISOs, etc.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
  23. OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by datbox · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is a lil OT, but is it legal to download mp3's if you own the physical cd? I know some people just don't know how to rip the mp3's off their cds. What if your CDs get stolen? Do you still own a license to that music? My music collection was stolen.. TWICE! What about dl'ing tv shows? To me, this is nothing more than a vcr, but is it legal??

    1. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by Alzheimers · · Score: 3, Insightful

      IANAL, but IIRC the ability to "Backup" a copywrited media is restricted to You personally backing up Your Own copy. Your friend who might have the same idential item, may *not* give you a "Backup" copy made from his own disk, for example.

      Just like you can't legally download a digital copy of a movie you just watched on TV, even if it was broadcast over public airwaves and you were a good consumer and watched every commercial.

    2. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by JaxGator75 · · Score: 5, Informative
      Since this is Bit Torrent we are talking about, it should be noted that you cannot Download without Uploading. That's what makes it inherently dangerous to those that prize annonymity...

      /brazen

      --
      Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
    3. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 4, Informative
      It is not illegal to download or upload anything. Not yet anyway. It is a civil issue.
      Wrong. It is a civil issue (as opposed to a criminal one), but that doesn't make it "not illegal" -- it most definitely is illegal to violate copyright law.

      In either case though downloading doesn't count as infringement as far as I know. It's only when you start uploading that you have problems.
      Wrong. Read US Code, Title 17, Sec 106; the copyright holder has the exclusive right to reproduce the copyrighted work.
      The only way they could get the IP of downloaders would be to set up their own Torrent/filesharer
      Anyone participating in a torrent will be able to see the IP addresses of other users on the torrent. And yes, infringement notices do get sent to Bittorrent users quite frequently now.
      and that would be considered entrapment
      Doubtful.
      * IANAL
      Obviously.
      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    4. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by Qzukk · · Score: 4, Informative

      The only way they could get the IP of downloaders would be to set up their own Torrent/filesharer

      The torrent announcer is basically just a web CGI. A properly made wget command will give you the list of all the IPs, without having to mess with actually connecting to the swarm.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    5. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by cheekyboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      True, but if you do what you say in your own home and no one else in the universe saw it or knew about it, then did it really happen?

      its only your own 'guilt' which makes it bad.

      Id like to classify it as 'offsite backup'

      --
      Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
    6. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by Sparr0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      It is also a criminal issue, if you do it enough.

      TITLE 17 > CHAPTER 5 > 506 Prev | Next
      506. Criminal offenses
      Release date: 2004-04-30
      (a) Criminal Infringement.-- Any person who infringes a copyright willfully either--
      (1) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, or
      (2) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000,
      shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, United States Code.
      For purposes of this subsection, evidence of reproduction or distribution of a copyrighted work, by itself, shall not be sufficient to establish willful infringement.

      TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 113 > 2319 Prev | Next
      2319. Criminal infringement of a copyright
      Release date: 2004-08-06
      (a) Whoever violates section 506 (a) (relating to criminal offenses) of title 17 shall be punished as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section and such penalties shall be in addition to any other provisions of title 17 or any other law.
      (b) Any person who commits an offense under section 506 (a)(1) of title 17--
      (1) shall be imprisoned not more than 5 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense consists of the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of at least 10 copies or phonorecords, of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $2,500;
      (2) shall be imprisoned not more than 10 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense is a second or subsequent offense under paragraph (1); and
      (3) shall be imprisoned not more than 1 year, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, in any other case.
      (c) Any person who commits an offense under section 506 (a)(2) of title 17, United States Code--
      (1) shall be imprisoned not more than 3 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense consists of the reproduction or distribution of 10 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of $2,500 or more;
      (2) shall be imprisoned not more than 6 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense is a second or subsequent offense under paragraph (1); and
      (3) shall be imprisoned not more than 1 year, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense consists of the reproduction or distribution of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000.

    7. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Informative
      In either case though downloading doesn't count as infringement as far as I know. It's only when you start uploading that you have problems.
      Wrong. Read US Code, Title 17, Sec 106; the copyright holder has the exclusive right to reproduce the copyrighted work.
      The way I understand it is that when a book is copied, the person who produced the copy is the one who infringed, not the person who merely received the copy. Similarly, in a digital situation the uploader is at fault, because they're the ones providing the copy. The downloader doesn't actually reproduce anything; they just receive it.

      Besides being more in accordance with traditional copyright law (for books and such), it also makes more technical sense: the uploader's computer is the one that actually copies the bits, puts them into packets and sends them. After all, how could the receiver make a copy if he didn't have one in the first place?

      For everyone's convenience, here's the relevant section of law:
      Section 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works

      Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:

      1. to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
      2. to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;
      3. to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;
      4. in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work publicly;
      5. in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, to display the copyrighted work publicly; and
      6. in the case of sound recordings, to perform the copyrighted work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission.
      Oh, and IANAL either.
      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    8. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by anethema · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Another reason to move to canada :)

      Downloading music and probably movies is 100% legal.

      Dont even need to own the stuff, just download it. Legal!

      Course uploading is still illegal.

      --


      It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
    9. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by jci · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What proof do you have though that those IP addresses are actually sharing files?

      Hypothetically, what if an announcer randomly injected IP addresses from another popular site they ran into the torrent files? The only way to confirm that a user actually is sharing the file is to download it.

      That is why actual connection to a peer is more definitive.

    10. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by Sparr0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One thing no one has considered is the matter of excerpts. It is pretty well settled that using very short clips of movies, excerpts from books, etc is legal as fair use. The glory of BT is that youre only downloading a few seconds of the movie, but from a thousand different people.

    11. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by jesser · · Score: 4, Informative

      You can download without uploading with BitTorrent, but uploading makes the download four times faster.

      --
      The shareholder is always right.
    12. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 3, Informative

      The way I understand it is that when a book is copied, the person who produced the copy is the one who infringed, not the person who merely received the copy. Similarly, in a digital situation the uploader is at fault, because they're the ones providing the copy. The downloader doesn't actually reproduce anything; they just receive it.

      You don't understand it.

      It's not a matter of sender/recipient. It's who caused the download to occur. And that is generally the downloader, since no one made him initiate the download. The Marobie-FL case discusses this a bit.

      Now, if your computer had been taken over by malware and was d/l'ing things without you causing it to, THEN, you might get off the hook.

      I suggest taking a look at the Napster decision. It flatly says that downloaders are infringing on the reproduction right. And it's by no means the only such case. It's a pretty uniform holding.

      Besides being more in accordance with traditional copyright law (for books and such), it also makes more technical sense: the uploader's computer is the one that actually copies the bits, puts them into packets and sends them. After all, how could the receiver make a copy if he didn't have one in the first place?

      You didn't read 17 USC 101, which defines a LOT of terms in the law; common definitions often do not apply.

      A copy is a tangible object. Bits are not a copy. The hard drive or RAM in question is. When you download, you are causing a copy to be made by reproducing the intangible work into a tangible medium within your control. All that is needed to reproduce is to have access to the work. Not access to a copy embodying the work. It's no different than if someone were to read a book aloud and you wrote down what they said; that's illegal.

      N.b. that a single act of downloading may result in numerous instances of infringement, by various parties. But if you caused the download to occur, at least some of that is going to be your problem.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    13. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not using your common sense, I see.

      See, courts and judges are not extraordinarily stupid, as a rule. They will see right through such feeble facades as that and still be able to throw the book at you.

      It's a bit like what went on during the 50's-70's with segregation. When obvious discrimination was overturned, subtle methods were tried. The courts overturned them just as easily, because what's illegal is the underlying behavior, whether accomplished through blatant or clever means.

      And your idea isn't even clever.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    14. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by Feztaa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It depends entirely on what country you're in.

      Up here in Canada, if I buy a CD and lend it to my friend, and he then burns a copy for himself, and gives me my CD back, that's legal. But if I burn a copy of my CD and give him the copy, that's illegal.

      I shit you not.

    15. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by Lemmeoutada+Collecti · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If, however, they connect to the torrent, then aren't they knowingly distributing the material themselves? Seems to me that connecting to the torrent legitamately is the only legal way. See DMCA, et al. So they are, in effect, giving permission to distribute it. Could be quite a field day for lawers on both sides.

      Usual disclaimers apply. Just m $0.02 USD

      --

      You can have it fast, accurate, or pretty. Pick any 2.
    16. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 3, Informative

      Without further details or reflection, I'd say that the direct infringer is the uploader in _that_ rather unusual situation.

      And then I'd also say that the person with the wishlist is a contributory and vicarious infringer based upon the direct infringement of the uploader.

      So they're both liable for copyright infringement.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    17. Re:OT but, What's Legal to dl??? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uhm, no. Firstly you dont have to allow Bittorrent to upload, it may cause issues if you dont, but theres no requirement. Secondly, just because the legal copyright owner is distributing the item, it doesnt legitimise the distribution by other people, as the copyright owner (or whoever the copyright owner has given distribution permission to), can distribute it as they see fit and that does not grant permission to others to distribute it. The people who connect to the copyright owners torrent peer may be getting a partially legal file, but this infers no legal rights on them to allow distribution, which they would be doing if they then uploaded it through bittorrent. The DMCA does not come into play, because the peers do not have rights to distribute the items in the first place, AND they are publically allowing access.

  24. Re:Do those uses make sense? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Cynical, aren't we?

    Doesn't it make more sense to get these from "the source"?

    In case you haven't been paying attention, the "source" is usually providing the torrent. (Go to any major Linux distribution to check. I dare you.)

    The gutenburg mirrors seem like the best place for this.

    But God-aweful slow. Distributing the bandwidth allows for a larger number of files to be moved faster.

    Might as well add that with BT there is a chance that your GTA demo is really a mis-labelled Halo demo.

    Again, many of these torrents are now provided by "the source". Since they seed the torrent, you can be sure that it's properly labeled. Improper labeling is usually a side-effect of getting it from "questionable" channels.

    Google would be better for most of this.

    Poppycock. Google only caches HTML. It's difficult to say if even they have the bandwidth to cache multimedia files.

    For most of this, it makes more sense to get the files elsewhere. For now, BT makes the most sense for copyright infringement materials, where for the most part no-one dares to host them on typical static web pages or download sites.

    Again, this is poppycock. PDF files can be *huge* for freely available information. "The BeFS FileSystem" and "Mozilla Platform Developers Guide" are just two examples off the top of my head. And only a few months ago, I mirrored creative commons PDFs for Slashdot, although I don't remember what they were.

  25. Television Shows by DavidLeblond · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I know the RIAA can bust you for downloading music, and the MPAA can bust you for downloading movies... is there any large organization (other than HBO, CBS, etc) that is looking to bust people for downloading television shows?

    I have in the past downloaded shows when my VCR or DVR crapped out and didn't tape them so I was curious of the legalities of this.

    1. Re:Television Shows by famewolf · · Score: 4, Informative

      MGM is big about cracking down on people downloading their movies or tv shows...recently they cracked down on several people sharing the "Dead like Me" show which is only available on Showtime.

    2. Re:Television Shows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      BayTSP sent the following letter to my ISP and they forwarded it to me so it looks like Paramount pictures is definitely enforcing their copyrights on tv episodes distributed through bittorrent

      Dear Sir or Madam:

      BayTSP, Inc. ("BayTSP") swears under penalty of perjury that Paramount Pictures Corporation ("Paramount") has authorized BayTSP to act as its non-exclusive agent for copyright infringement notification. BayTSP's search of the protocol listed below has detected infringements of Paramount's copyright interests on your IP addresses as detailed in the attached report.

      BayTSP has reasonable good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of in the attached report is not authorized by Paramount, its agents, or the law. The information provided herein is accurate to the best of our knowledge. Therefore, this letter is an official notification to effect removal of the detected infringement listed in the attached report. The attached documentation specifies the exact location of the infringement.

      We hereby request that you immediately remove or block access to the infringing material, as specified in the copyright laws, and insure the user refrains from using or sharing with others Paramount's materials in the future (see, 17 U.S.C. 512).

      Further, we believe that the entire Internet community benefits when these matters are resolved cooperatively. We urge you to take immediate action to stop this infringing activity and inform us of the results of your actions. We appreciate your efforts toward this common goal.

      Please send us a prompt response indicating the actions you have taken to resolve this matter. Please reference the Notice ID number above in your response.

      Nothing in this letter shall serve as a waiver of any rights or remedies of Paramount with respect to the alleged infringement, all of which are expressly reserved. Should you need to contact me, I may be reached at the following address:

      Mark Ishikawa
      Chief Executive Officer
      BayTSP, Inc.
      PO Box 1314
      Los Gatos, CA 95031

      v: 408-341-2300
      f: 408-341-2399
      paramount-picture@copyright-compliance.com

      *pgp public key is available on the key server at ldap://keyserver.pgp.com

      Note: The information transmitted in this Notice is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.

      This infringement notice contains an XML tag that can be used to automate the processing of this data. If you would like more information on how to use this tag please contact BayTSP.

      Infringed Work: Star Trek Enterprise
      Infringing FileName: star.trek.enterprise.401.hdtv-lol.[BT].avi
      Infringing FileSize: 367181824
      Protocol: BitTorrent
      Infringers IP Address: xx.xx.xx.xx
      Infringer's User Name:
      Infringer's DNS Name: xxxxx.xxxxxx.xxx
      Initial Infringement Timestamp: 12 Oct 2004 xx:xx:xx GMT
      Recent Infringement Timestamp: 12 Oct 2004 xx:xx:xx GMT

    3. Re:Television Shows by ars · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But that's (showtime) a pay access cable channel.

      The situation is quite different for over the air free broadcasts.

      In fact it's far from clear to me that's it's illegal to download those in the first place.

      And don't tell me the it's because commercials are edited out of the downloads: if I want to I have the right to ask someone to edit commercials out of a tv show I recorded, and then watch the show (for example someone who's time is quite valuable could hire someone to do this).

      I can see arguments both ways for this, but it's not a clear one in any direction, so lawsuits are quite unlikely.

      --
      -Ariel
    4. Re:Television Shows by Sailsa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I do the same thing. My family never had cable so I never really watched TV, but once I discovered BitTorrent I used it to download shows like Dead Like Me and now I subscribe to cable so I can see the shows I used to download. If I was not able to download the shows in the first place, then I would never have gotten cable.

    5. Re:Television Shows by Atlantis69 · · Score: 2, Informative

      MPAA has already sent me a C&D in regard to downloading TV show episodes, so watch out.

    6. Re:Television Shows by Bitmanhome · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I scored a copy of the pilot, loaned it to a guy at work. He like it so much, he bought the season 1 DVD set. Unfortunately, he then loaned the set to a coworker. So file sharing is helping sales, but it's those evil loaners that are injuring sales.

      Ironically, I still haven't watched that episode.

      --
      Not that this wasn't entirely predictable.
  26. Definitely not under radar by jimi1283 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've received 2 DMCA notices for downloading "Dead Like Me" episodes... even though I'm a paying subscriber to ShowTime. Oh well, that's why I got a Tivo

    1. Re:Definitely not under radar by DeionXxX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wow... thats sucks... what site did you download from? I'm a frequent downloaded of Dead Like Me too because i can get them in HD as opposed to my crappy TV.

  27. You missed the memo from legal by swb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ..where they call *anyone* participating in the enterprise a "co-conspirator" and everybody gets the full punishment, despite only a small participation in the actual "crime".

  28. Someone figure this out for me... by sserendipity · · Score: 5, Funny

    Can someone tell me how many percentage points there are in all the internets? I'm pretty certain that about 70% is pron, 50% is spam mail and at least 85% of all internet traffic was in the form of mysterious, partisan, hard to prove or disprove, statistics about internet traffic.

  29. Darn those furriners! by rueger · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In reference to Suprnova "They're doing something flagrantly illegal, but getting away with it because they're offshore," said (Bittorrent creator)Cohen. He is not eager to get into a battle about how his creation is used. "To me, it's all bits," he said."

    I've always liked Cohen's attitude, and his transparency about Bittorrent's lack of privacy. I do though wonder if Slovenian law might differ from that of the United States.

  30. Here is the study by RealProgrammer · · Score: 5, Informative

    ... that apparently started all of this. It was published by Cache Logic, who make traffic statistics boxes.

    http://www.cachelogic.com/research/slide1.php

    --
    sigs, as if you care.
  31. What other options are there? by k3v0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Other than freenet, what options are there for anonymous p2p?
    a google doesn't show much
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c2coff=1&q=anon ymous+p2p&spell=1
    Can any bit torrent clients/plugins use anonymous proxies?

  32. Who here runs bittorrent 24/7/365? by herrvinny · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know I _always_ have bittorrent running constantly. Right now I'm torrenting a couple gigs of Love Hina songs and miscellaneous stuff.

    Seriously, who here runs bittorrent 24/7/365? Every college guy (like myself) should be running bittorrent. If not, you're missing some good stuff.

  33. Re:From the article by IBeatUpNerds · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, while we're at it, Caltrans and Honda enable me to speed on the freeway. The telephone enables me to call people to make slanderous remarks. The more I think about it, the more lawsuits I see that need to be filed.

  34. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  35. So what group recorded that hit song? by dpilot · · Score: 2, Funny

    What group recorded that hit song, linux-2.6.10.tar.bz?

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  36. that 35%... by advocate_one · · Score: 2, Interesting

    can't all be linux distros... I mean we're renowned for checking out distros at the drop of a hat, but 35% of all web traffic... now that's just not on...

    --
    Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
  37. Re:Great... by phozz+bare · · Score: 3, Interesting

    eMule!

    Since the subject has come up, can anyone possibly explain why eDonkey/eMule downloads are so painfully slow compared to BT, despite them using essentially the same technique of breaking files into small packets and sharing them around?

    Even if the file on eMule has hundreds of complete sources, I can still find myself "queued" for hours before receiving anything. On BT, even with a few sources and many leeches, data is received immediately and at decent speeds.

    phozz
  38. who cares by subzero_ice · · Score: 2, Informative

    The porn industry said that it didn't care as long as people share the porn within themself and weren't making a profit out of it, so most of us are fine and shouldn't be affected my our friends at MPAA/RIAA.

  39. Consider the source of this number by aderusha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The study comes from CacheLogic (http://www.cachelogic.com), which sells bandwidth throttling appliances to ISPs, schools, companies, etc. Considering that their business is to scare large-scale internet users into throttling the bandwidth use of your typical BT user, I don't find it at all surprising that they are claiming somewhat inflated numbers for P2P use on the internet at large.

  40. Sue BitTorrent application authors like Blizzard? by hkmwbz · · Score: 4, Interesting
    If they are going to start suing BitTorrent application authors, then one of the most prominent ones would be Blizzard, of Warcraft/Diablo/Starcraft fame... :)

    I don't find it very likely that BitTorrent authors will be sued. Many Linux distributions use BitTorrent to distribute Linux ISOs. Many download sites, like Filerush.com, offer torrents as alternatives in addition to normal HTTP/FTP download sites.

    Heck, even the entertainment industry could use BitTorrent-like technology to offer video or music on demand without having to invest truckloads of money into bandwidth.

    "Isn't it clear that BitTorrent wasn't designed with copyright infringement in mind?"
    Not at all. For one, banning tools like P2P clients just because some people are using them for illegal activities is silly. If that's the path we are going down, why don't we ban stuff like knives and guns? Or PCs. Or the Internet!

    Wheher BitTorrent was designed with copyright infringement in mind is completely irrelevant. It's seeing many useful legal purposes. I use it for completely legal downloads all the time.

    Blame the people, not the tools.

    --
    Clever signature text goes here.
  41. Only for 1 ISP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Guys Check out that graph again
    http://www.cachelogic.com/research/slide1.p hp
    (thx to whoever posted it for posting it)

    Its for a Single ISP (TIER one)

    And the total of the graph isnt even 1000mbit
    This isnt a total internet survey hehe

  42. BitTorrent isn't "just" for illegal distribution by hacker · · Score: 4, Interesting
    We've been happily using BitTorrent to distribute all of our releases for almost two years now. We've served up over 97GiB in the last 5 months for our current release. Pretty funny, considering its really just a tiny little Palm application. On release weeks, we generally serve up 8-10GiB/night over http, and quite a bit less over BitTorrent. I'm hoping to flip those values, so BitTorrent becomes the main distribution medium.

    I even took the time to write a Plucker BitTorrent mini-FAQ for the users who are misinformed about the technology itself. We've had great success overall, but it has definately tapered off. When we make our next release, it'll spike to 3-5GiB/day served up as before.

    You can see some of our snazzy usage graphs of the BitTorrent traffic as well.

    I also modified our tracker so you could sort and click to download the files directly from the tracker webpage itself, instead of using the normal download page from our site. Thanks to some helpful http and rsync mirrors, the load is spread out nicely, and the mirror links are randomized to make sure it spreads evenly.

    If anyone is interested in seeding for us, or being an http or rsync mirror for Plucker, please contact me.

  43. The MPAA's response... by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Oh yeah? Then we'll double bankrupt him!"

    1. Re:The MPAA's response... by mcmonkey · · Score: 4, Funny

      double secret bankrupt him!

    2. Re:The MPAA's response... by timeOday · · Score: 4, Funny
      I saw a bum sitting by the side of the road. "Help me," he said, "I'm completely broke."

      "Wow," I thought. "It must be nice to have a net worth up there at $0. Thanks to credit cards I'm still paying off a sandwich I ate 5 years ago!"

    3. Re:The MPAA's response... by mcmonkey · · Score: 2, Funny
      I was thinking Animal House, but Christmas Story works.

      You'll download your eye out!

  44. Re:Sue BitTorrent application authors like Blizzar by schon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    even the entertainment industry could use BitTorrent-like technology to offer video or music on demand without having to invest truckloads of money into bandwidth

    They *could*, but they won't, because it deprives them the means to control distribution.

    This is an industry whose MO has been to resist *every* new technology, whether it's beneficial to them or not - look at the lawsuit launched by Disney/Universal against the VCR - they wanted it banned, caput, illegal... even though today home video sales make up a huge percentage of their profits, they still hate it, because they no longer control the distribution (once they sell a video, they can't stop you from selling it to someone else.)

    Look at the music industry, who fought tooth-and-nail against *radio*, claiming it would end music (after all, who would pay to go to a concert when you can get the music for free in your own home, and if nobody will pay for live music, how will musicians earn money?) It wasn't until they discovered they could control the airwaves that they finally (and begrudgingly) gave in - until the advent of the home tape recorder gave them new reason to fear.

    The entertainment industries don't *care* about any potential benefits new technology will bring them, they're stuck in their old business model ways, and fear anything that might possibly provide competition for their cartels.

  45. BT and Blizzard by meplaysocr · · Score: 4, Informative

    Blizzard is using BT for transfering files to their Testers of their World of Warcraft game. Every time we get a new client download its well over 2gigs of data they are pushing. Patches are around 250-300megs. That's a lot of data to be pushing around.

    --

    Sig? No thanks, I don't smoke.
  46. Solution: Publisher Anonymity BT with I2P by Famatra · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Given that BT requires a link to a .torrent, how hard is it for companies to send a C&D to the ISP/owner of any site hosting illegal .torrent links? "

    A few people are working on an anonymous BT tracker tool system for I2P.*ONLY* the BT tracker will be anonymous in this subtool that is being worked on as seen here on an update from 2 days ago. This would allow for publisher anonymity and should be fast since the tracker only coordinates the peers, with the peers doing the heavy lifting.

    Of course having full anonymity (for the peers as well) would be useful , and maybe possible, but as your post suggsted - BT is vunerable at the tracker/publisher source. This is a solution to that vunerability, and in any event I2P is fully anonymous itself, if you want peer anonymity for a file :).

    This BT tool is not ready yet for I2P, but I2P itself is making remarkable progress so I would not be surprised if it is ready within less than a few months. For more information you can also find the #I2P channel, with the #Freenet channel, on irc.freenode.net , I2P's chat network and IIP (I2P and the Metro IIP are linked).

  47. Torrents and the *AA by colonslashslash · · Score: 5, Informative
    Myself and Matt from The Linux Mirror Project run BitTorrent 24/7/365, seeding out from 4 servers on 100mbps pipes, and thats just for the Linux ISO torrents, I also am usually running it from home a good 18 hours a day.

    The thing to consider is that unlike Kazaa-like networks where the big bad *AA could search for their albums / movies and find out how many illegal files a user has by viewing their shared folder, torrents exist only for a single entity at a time, so the *AA trying to sue someone for downloading [insert crappy pop album here] would only be able to sue for that particular infringment, and they wouldn't be able to prove the user has 10,000 other albums on their system.

    This, I would think, makes it dramatically harder, and alot less financially viable for them to start dragging BitTorrent users downloading illegal files into court, and is probably why it hasn't happened yet.

    --
    She's built like a steak house, but she handles like a bistro....
    1. Re:Torrents and the *AA by hacker · · Score: 3, Insightful
      "...so the *AA trying to sue someone for downloading [insert crappy pop album here] would only be able to sue for that particular infringment, and they wouldn't be able to prove the user has 10,000 other albums on their system."

      No, but it DOES allow them to see every single IP address of every single peer, seed, and client using that .torrent... which gives them enough ammo to go to ISPs and begin scaring people with threat letters.

    2. Re:Torrents and the *AA by sheddd · · Score: 2, Informative
      "No, but it DOES allow them to see every single IP address of every single peer, seed, and client using that .torrent... which gives them enough ammo to go to ISPs and begin scaring people with threat letters."

      So do most other p2p apps I'm aware of:

      Fasttrack Network (Kazaa, Etc.)

      Direct Connect (If you can join)

      Gnutella, Emule, more

      I'm not saying most of these programs easily allow you to get ip's using the client, but once it's running you could figure it out with netstat, or could modify the code to show you what information is available. With the funds the xxAA are spending on this, I'd imagine they have some nice programs to easily compile p2p data and spit it into some database; if I were them I'd say,

      SELECT from P2PDB * SORT BY 'Cooperative ISP','SizeofISP' WHERE 'ItsOurClientsMaterial' (well something like that)

      And start from the top of the list.

      The only anonymous p2p I'm aware of is freenet.

  48. using torrent == more probes? by Xtifr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I was using torrent to d/l the latest Ubuntu Linux ISOs, I noticed a huge spike in the number of probes and scans to my system. It's not just the RIAA/MPAA that BT doesn't hide your identity from! :)

    Interestingly, I don't see this kind of spike when getting (legal) concert recordings from bt.etree.org. But that's probably subject to change without notice at any point. Fortunately, my only open port (ssh) is configured with libwrap to block access from any but a few specific IPs, and I keep an eye on my logs just in case. But I definitely think this is something people should be aware of. Using BT does make you a more visible target for attacks, and not just legal ones!

  49. let me get this straight by asv108 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    A company who's main product is a device designed to monitor and cache P2P network traffic, has a study that shows P2P networks account for an insane amount of network traffic.

    Certainly no reason not believe them, its not like they have a conflict of interest or anything. Nothing to see here, move along please!

  50. You misread. by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "Isn't it clear that BitTorrent wasn't designed with copyright infringement in mind?"
    Not at all. For one, banning tools like P2P clients just because some people are using them for illegal activities is silly. If that's the path we are going down, why don't we ban stuff like knives and guns? Or PCs. Or the Internet!

    No no no. He said it was clear that BitTorrent wasn't designed with copyright infringement in mind. And that's why copyright infringers should use something else. Because it is sub-optimal for stealing. The distributors (supernova or whatever) will be wide open targets.
    --

    There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  51. Re:Do those uses make sense? by mcmonkey · · Score: 4, Informative
    Google would be better for most of this. For most of this, it makes more sense to get the files elsewhere. For now, BT makes the most sense for copyright infringement materials, where for the most part no-one dares to host them on typical static web pages or download sites.

    AtariAmarok completely missing the point of BitTorrent and has probably never used it.

    BT is crap for most copyright infringement materials. Why? Actually, for the exact reason stated--"for the most part no-one dares to host them on typical static web pages or download sites."

    BT is nothing like napster or kazaa or that sort of P2P app. There is no search function in the BT client. Most BT links are on typical web pages. (Ok, they're not static--the list of torrents is probably in a database or flat file and page generated. But then again, look around the web, the typical web page these days is not static.)

    As far the best source for ISOs, Gutenburg, game demos...

    WHERE THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?

    No, not Earth, silly...this web site. /.

    Hello, McFly. Ever hear of the slashdot effect? Ever hear of so many people hitting a server at the same time the poor thing dies? DDoS?

    So when the DNF demo comes out, and a million fanboys on DSL at home and T-1s at work all go to download it at the same time, "the source" is the ABSOLUTELY WORST PLACE ON THE INTERNET to try to grab a copy.

    Now, follow me, over the rainbow.

    Imagine...it's easy if you try...an internet where we harness the bandwidth of all those fanboys. A system where instead of the flow of information getting choked off, the flow actually increases as more people download the file!

    AtariAmarok mentions mirrors. Well, what if--I know this is crazy, but hang with me here--what if not only did each person downloading a file share that file to others to take advantage of downstream and upstream bandwidth, so that each download becomes a mirror, but what if this could happen simultaneous to download. Each user could share whatever piece of the file available locally without waiting for the download to complete. Each download, instead of being part of the problem, is part of the solution!

    If only such a wonder system of distribution existed. Oh wait, it does.

    AtariAmarok does make one valid point. How do you know what you are downloading is what you think you are downloading?

    You don't. But then again, someone could hack the DNS server so when you try to visit slashdot you actually end up at some goat-related web site.

    So, for AtariAmarok the solution is to unplug your modem, turn off your computer, and encase your hard drive in carbonite.

    For the rest of us, BT is here. Ask your doctor if BT is right for you.

  52. You have nothing to worry about by bshroyer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you're not downloading copyrighted material, then you're not uploading it, either. Since BT was not built with any sort of security in mind, then the "man" (the *AA, your campus network admin, your boss) can check on the bits you're passing... and will see that you're not passing any copyrighted bits.

    What's that, you say? You want to transmit copyrighted bits? Then be warned: with BT, the "man" is watching you, and if you're doing something illegal or unethical, you may be caught. There's enough freely distributable bits out there to keep you happy for the rest of your life. Try it out.

    --
    The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
  53. Re:Great... by wickning1 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I wondered about that too. I came up with three likely reasons.

    1) People share more than a couple files at a time with eMule. With bittorrent I never share more than 4 torrents at once, but with eMule there can be quite a few available. This doesn't slow the network down as a whole, but probably allows traffic to concentrate more strongly on the popular files.

    2) Tit-for-tat. Bittorrent is more aggressive in enforcing upload/download ratio, so the pure leechers have a somewhat harder time. It also encourages people to open the appropriate ports on their router/firewall, which can improve overall network efficiency.

    3) Many people don't realize that if you have an upload cap imposed by your ISP (DSL modem or one of many cable providers), bittorrent will clog it easily and downloads will slow to almost nothing. You'd think people would figure it out, but many don't, especially those using the traditional client on windows (you have to use a command line argument to choke upload speed). Those users who don't figure it out give the rest of us a boost.

  54. Native BitTorrent support for Firefox by kinema · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With the obvious success of BitTorrent I wonder why Firefox doesn't support it nativly as a transfer protocol. BitTorrent is a much simpler then SVG and navive support (not via an extension) for it is currently being worked on.

    1. Re:Native BitTorrent support for Firefox by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Informative

      SVG is more important for Firefox: it is significant for displaying content on web pages while BitTorrent is mostly useful for downloading big files (which websites and the content embedded in them usually aren't). Consider this: most popular websites have dynamic content nowadays, so there aren't any peers anyway (except for images). And with the overhead of initiating all the TCP connections to BitTorrent peers, it would be less efficient than just connecting and downloading from the web server for stuff that small.

      Integrating BitTorrent support into the download manager is an interesting idea, though!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  55. Re:OT: Growing Pains II TV Movie by Cloud+9 · · Score: 2, Funny
    My reason? An old crush on one of the cast members.



    Kirk Cameron?

    --
    Karma: Dyn-o-mite!(mostly affected by Jimmy Walker reading your comments)
  56. BT is just an optimization by dtfinch · · Score: 2, Informative

    BitTorrent is intended to optimize download performance and reduce ISP costs through P2P techniques, with clear efforts to prevent it from degrading into a piracy tool. If you close the download window, and the file becomes unavailable from your computer to others. If you take out the tracker managing downloads of illegal content, you stop the downloads. You take the .torrent files off the web servers, you make it so nobody can find the downloads. If a file loses popularity, as is the case when you have lots and lots of small files, like music, it'll eventually become unavailable as people close their trackers.

    Unlike with traditional P2P, where your only route is to sue downloaders, copyright owners have several possible routes to police the network without suing the downloaders or the creator of BitTorrent. They can, if the law does its job, actually go straight to the source and sue the people providing the illegal downloads, just like you can with traditional client server protocols like ftp and http, while leaving legitimate users of the technology unaffected.

  57. MPAA is already issuing ultimatums by bacomage1 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The mpaa isn't just contemplating going after bt users: they've already done it. A few weeks ago my ISP sent me an email saying that the MPAA had logged a specific complaint about copyright infringment from my IP address using the Bittorrent client. So... watch out.

  58. 17 USC 1008 exemption by redelm · · Score: 3, Informative
    IANAL, but downloading _music_ is probably legal, based on this exemption in the US Code, Title 17 Copyright:

    S: 1008. Prohibition on certain infringement actions

    No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings.

  59. Packeteer's lack of bittorrent support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    We are using the latest PacketWise v7.0 software. A week after the upgrade, noticed IP addresses that where eating up alot of bandwidth and not falling under any classification. After bounding the ethernet port and forcing the machine to re-establish it's TCP connections, we discovered from a tcpdump that the traffic was BitTorrent. And while Packeteer's PacketWise was labelling some 1% of our traffic as BitTorrent, it clearly had missed this (and *SEVERAL* other) heavy user complettely--even after bounding the ethernet port.

    After sending Packeteer "support" the tcpdump, they notified us that we should just rate limit the TCP port #'s that our tcpdump shows is being used. Since BT uses a different TCP port # for every session, their advice didn't help much. After following Packeteer's advice to the letter, we calculated that 25% of our T3 bandwidth was BT traffic that was remaining unclassified and unshapped.

    At this point, I consider Packeteer's claim to classify BT traffic to be fraud. I have asked my supervisor to switch to buying a NetEqualizer. Not only was their support staff able to provide more logical answers to addressing bandwidth hogging, the cost of their equipment/license was also less than a 1/6'th the cost we got robbed by Packeteer for!

  60. I got nailed by mikeg22 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I downloaded a popular recent movie off of a suprnova bittorrent link, and the next day my internet connection was down. I called up the Cox customer support and they gave me another number to call but wouldn't tell me who I was calling. I called the other number and the guy on the other end knew the exact movie I had downloaded, explained politely that I was not supposed to be "uploading" that movie (which bittorrent automatically does), and then turned my internet connection back on.

    I asked the guy if Cox was monitoring my usage, and he said no, that "someone else" had called them to complain. I assume this someone else was the MPAA or somebody working for them.

  61. Warning to Cox/Cable customers by humankind · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A friend of mine who is a lawyer in the music industry told me the other day that Cox is one of the ISPs that coughs up subscriber information without adequate legal due dilligence. I also believe that the RIAA and other organizations are primarily targeting users of specific ISPs that are more cooperative.

    If you're doing any P2P activity, you should shop around for a more responsible ISP that fights to protect their customers' privacy. Generally speaking, the cable Internet providers are much less respectful of customer privacy than the telco companies. This is why I will not use Cox or Comcast.

    1. Re:Warning to Cox/Cable customers by mikeg22 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, I don't know if Cox gave any of my information out. It looks like the MPAA (or someone similar) notified Cox that a specific IP address was uploading copyrighted content, and Cox shut down the address. If I get a letter from the MPAA though, I'm going to be extremely pissed that Cox gave my info out.

    2. Re:Warning to Cox/Cable customers by EventHorizon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The cable Internet providers are much less respectful of customer privacy.

      And that, boys and girls, is why you should encrypt ALL traffic over your final hop, and only hit the plaintext internet from a remote box.

      For instance you can get a cheap virtual private server semi-anonymously and then route all plaintext traffic to/from it using IPSec [1]. Your ISP will be left with virtually no info about what you do online.

      This situation kind of beats exposing all traffic to cable/DSL companies, which are usually owned by major media conglomerates and have as much of your personal info as the IRS. Of course it won't stop the FBI if you do something massively illegal, but the MPAA/RIAA goons are, as you said, likely to pick on an easier target.

      [1] alternatively, google "tor"

  62. Re:Do those uses make sense? by ikkonoishi · · Score: 4, Informative

    You are correct sir.

    In fact... google searches torrent files.

    Actually... thats a nifty feature...

  63. Re:Don't sue! Just rationalize badwidth costs by CaptRespect · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wow, the government artifically increasing the price of using a product. You're a god damn genius. That definately won't hurt the technology market or even keep the US uncompetitive with other contries that won't do your genius plan. Fuck the people that develop Linux or host free websites, they should charge for there software anyway.

    Besides with all the taxes we already have to worry about, what's one more?

    I hate people that always think of great plans the government can force "solutions" upon you. You are an idiot.

  64. Re:Serious question to programmers by humankind · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As a programmer and software publisher, I can add my two cents to this situation, and I think it applies to all types of "software" including music and movies.

    I had a successful software company throughout the 80s and the early 90s. We sold over 100k copies of our software (which wasn't bad for our tiny operation), and I estimate that there were at least ten to a hundred times more pirated copies in circulation. Even with the piracy, the market was plenty big to provide for us. Piracy actually helped promote our product, call attention to the company and spawn sales. We weren't happy about the piracy but we also knew that it compensated for a lack of resources to advertise on a large scale.

    To increase revenue we continually improved our products and released upgrades. We also provided an ancient concept called "support" that our customers appreciated greatly.

    To answer your question specifically, I don't think any "true" programmer would ever be discouraged by piracy. That's like asking a painter if he is bummed out that too many people were appreciating his art but not hanging it on their walls.

    Generally speaking, profit margin in software is *enormous*. Any product worth large scale pirating will be a product that also generates substantial legitimate revenue. I suspect one reason why publishers are griping about piracy is that the quality of a lot of software today is such that it's not worth the price they're asking in the first place, and they rely on advertising and insider deals to move product, as opposed to the quality and value of the product itself.

    My contention is that these days, piracy is more a form of protest than theft. Publishers are not producing products that have the same value they used to. You have companies like Quicken which shake down their customer base each year for a few hundred bucks to install a stupid tax table that should be free. That's bullshit.

    The software business may be dying, but it's not dying because of piracy. It's dying because it has matured like other industries and become controlled by a small number of "mafia" publishers and distributors of inferior products who gain market share via unfair trade practices and massive ad campaigns. Those companies are compelled to fight piracy moreso to protect their dynasty and squelch competition, than they are at risk of suffering any substantive financial losses due to piracy.

  65. Re:OT: Growing Pains II TV Movie by BigBlockMopar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why? He's not liberal.

    Not Kirk Cameron, no. But the fundamental irony of the conservative religious right is best summed up in the wisdom of a T-shirt: "Jesus was a liberal Jew".

    --
    Fire and Meat. Yummy.
  66. Re:Bittorrent is legal.. by mowler2 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ah, I see.

    In Sweden, where piratebay is located, a BBS-related lawsuit years ago concluded that the BBS-administrator/owner could not be held responsible for "warez"/illegal-stuff traded on the BBS by the users of the BBS. The same is argued to be true for a torrent tracker. The tracker is simply viewed as the means by which you can share digital material to others. Now if the material is shared without the copyright holders permission, the responsibility lies with the uploaders and not the tracker administrators.

    Furtheron, as everyone knows, no actual copyrighted data is transmitted through the tracker, so I guess it should be even more legitimate than a warez-BBS. :)

  67. You don't understand by tod_miller · · Score: 2, Informative

    Suing bittorrent would be like suing tim-berns-lee for http.

    bit-torrent == http == ftp == smtp.

    If I email someone an MP3 are you going to sure Outlook makes (please pelase say yes, and I use thunderbird, but sue M$!)

    Right, 35% I am not suprised look at my previous posts on bittorrent, I predicted that ALL internet traffic will use this, so even 'http' pages will use a bit torrent architecture, either at client level, or as a higher node level, like proxy level.

    If the technology comes good enough for d/l web pages quickly via a torrent, then we may enjoy a more balanced and quicker routing internet.

    Of course, right now you wait 30 minutes, then it does its magic.

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