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Hacker Sentenced To Longest US Sentence Yet
Iphtashu Fitz writes "The Associated Press is reporting that a Michigan man has been sentenced to 9 years in prison for his involvement in hacking into the corporate systems of Lowe's Home Improvement and attempting to steal customer credit card information. The sentence far exceeds the 5 1/2 years that hacker Kevin Mitnick spent behind bars. Two others are awaiting sentencing, including one of the first people to ever be convicted of wardriving. Prosecutors said the three men tapped into the wireless network of a Lowe's store in Southfield, Mich., used that connection to enter the chain's central computer system in North Wilkesboro, N.C., and installed a program to capture credit card information. No data was actually collected however."
That's the longest sententence indeed.
They were criminals. These were crackers, not hackers. You don't install credit card number capturing software on someone's retail network unless you're up to no good.
Thanks to our parole system which considers rape, murder, and anything else that isn't drug sales to be harmless to society, he'll be out in just four or six.
For reference, a typical sentence for breaking and entering with intent to steal is about two to four years...
But, hey. It looks better when they catch a guy "breaking" into a computer across the internet then when they catch someone actually breaking into a house. Best to throw the biggest book in the area at them to play the circus up some.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
They should lock up the fool that set their network up!
The an admin who sets up an unsecure wireless network should be convicted for stupidity.
Wardrivers like that give the wardriving community a bad name. Some wardrivers just want to find free and legal hotspots, and others (although they could have good intentions) just want a free net connection. Wardriving as a cheap way to access corporate networks is just bad taste...
WASTE - The Secure P2P
including one of the first people to ever be convicted of wardriving.
Can you be really convicted of wardriving, or just something you do illegally while you're wardriving?
According to the wikipedia article in the blurb:
Although acessing the files on an open network is illegal, it is not illegal to simply use the internet connection of an open wireless network, this is a common misunderstood concept. Most wardrivers do not in fact use services without authorization.
Seems kind of like saying, "He was convicted for using the Internet" when someone gets convicted of cracking.
Another thing...so you can use the connection, but you can't use any files? What's the justification for that? If you leave the network open and allow it to be used and you leave files open on it, how can it be illegal to use them?
Since when is wardriving illegal?
Jay | http://oldos.org
We, the Illegal Pirates of the Internet Who Must Steal Everything No Matter What, rue the travesty that has lead to the sentencing of our compatriots. We remain dedicated to the theft and infringement of all intellectual property at all costs, including but not limited to financial records and credit card numbers. Rest assured, we will continue our relentless campaign to thieve.
Signed,
The Illegal Pirates of the Internet Who Must Steal Everything No Matter What
p.s. clock!
While I think sentences (including this one) in the United States are excessive, and I think prison in fact fails to solve anything because it is used as a punishment rather than a rehabilitation and in fact makes people worse rather than better, I sort of rankle at this person being compared to Kevin Mitnick.
Kevin had no interest in any sort of financial gain from his activities. He was only interested in exploring and seeing what he could find. He was an annoying guy, but not one with ill intention.
I don't know the details about these individuals, but it seems to be implied that it was a moneymaking operation. That makes it far worse than anything Kevin did.
That said, prison isn't the answer. Only violent people should go to prison (and those prisons should be run such that they don't create the atmosphere for violence inside that they do today -- i.e. don't use the prisoners as an unwritten "punishment" against eachother -- punishment is counterproductive.)
I bet he isn't looking forward to having his security hole exploited while in prison!
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
Yea... okay. Good idea. Let's throw all those big badass hackers into prison and clog it up even more so that the killers and the rapists can turn parole faster.
Get a grip on reality. Breaking into a computer system is a non-violent crime. It involves monetary damages. Slap the bastard with heavy fines, hit him up with community service and make him pay it back.
You can't just throw everyone who inconveniences you, the poor system admin, into jail.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Let me make a few preemptive arguments before the inevitable "Free Kevin"-esque posts start coming by the hundreds.
/.ers. For proof, look no further than the topic which this is posted under.
/.ers want to sympathize with this guy is the fact that a lot of them are (good) hackers. No matter how dirty his actions were, they don't want to see a fellow hacker put in prison.
This guy is a criminal. He robbed people, or attempted to rob them. This is like robbing a bank, only worse. Nobody should show any sympathy for this guy. In fact, for the identity theft and fraud he commited, nine years is much too short of a sentence.
I know that a lot of the people who read this may tend to sympathize with him. This is the nature of
That's right, "Your Rights Online." Some editors or submitters apparently think that we have the online right to attempt to steal the property of other people, which if you think about for a minute is absurd.
The reason a lot of
But please, think before you post inane things about how our legal system is evil and corrupt. This is good. Thank God for the law.
Le français vous intéresse?
There have been murderers sentenced to one-fourth that length of time. This is ridiculius when people start valuing money over life.
Regards,
Steve
You break into a computer and steal my money, and it's going to become a violent crime when I break into your face and cause some non-monetary damages. Go to jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect two-hundred dollars.
Is it fascism yet?
A bit of common sense here - 9 *years* for hacking. That is higher than the average federal sentence for murder http://www.law.upenn.edu/fac/phrobins/OxfordDeterr enceAppendix.pdf
although lower than the average state one.
I'm sorry, but does anyone else find this silly? You can get a longer sentence for hacking than you can for a rape!
And they didn't even get any credit card information..
I mean if they broke in and took down the entire corp. network or put the company into administration then yeah sure, harsh it up...
But where is the justification for a 9year sentence?
Also, if you trespassed (into the office) and tried to steal a book of credit card information and let's add criminal damage (broken window) you would not get near five years let alone 9!
...other white collar crimes will not be prosecuted as they won't recieve much media attention to propagate to young eager script kiddies the scary consequences of making network adminstrators look bad.
Some aim to please, I aim to tease.
If you live in a country where revenge prevails then prison is the answer.
let's protect them!
-pyrrho
Well they did get 9 years and kevin got 5 (and kevin got out in like 3 didn't he?) so intenet was considered in the case obviously.
Yes punishments are harsh in the US and there's a good reason for this For one, people like vengence. Oh boy do they like vengence. For another, throwing tougher and tougher laws on the books doesn't piss anybody off. Won't you think of the CHILDREN? 3 strikes your out laws, etc, etc all appeal to about 70% of the population - namely the middle class and the rich (those who vote).
Wait, what about criminals? Chances are people in jail, or those who are affected by these laws, are politically disenfranchised, have never voted and will never vote. In other words, the poor. Mmmm democracy in action! Of course, there is a large section of the US that seems to be getting fed up with certain laws (like drug laws) because they were drug users, and are now middle class, etc and believe the drug penalties to be ridiculous.I do believe New York just overturned some of the toughest drug laws in the country that were originally passed in the 1970s. That and people seem to be getting more and more upset that something ridiculous like 3% of our population has been in Jail during their lives.
This guys was not a hacker. He was a cracker. A criminal hacker. I'm sick of this public misconception. Whenever I talk about software to non tech people and I mention hackers, and the good work they do, people automatically assume I'm talking about some uber geek, crypto cyber punk, virus writing, terrorist whos out to gain control of as many nukes as he can before he downloads copious amounts of porn into their bank accounts.
Seriously, where the hell did this misconception arise from? It's tempting to blame hollywood, but it's more likely to have been some self proclaimed "landmark" NY Times article written by some clueless reporter who knew next to nothing about computer or the net in general outside of what some equally misinformed 133t script kiddies spluttered out to him when he asked them on IRC( The devils internet dungeon!!).
This misnomer of hackers used in the media at large has got to be tackled somehow. Otherwise other FUD might creep in, and pretty soon FOSS apps might be classed as warez by another bumbling journalist looking to rise ranks by jumping for the businees pages to the spanking new IT suppliment section by writing the next domesday tech article, complete with teenage (cr/h)acker masterminds.
May the Maths Be with you!
Yes, but in this case they didn't actually steal anything, although that was probably their intent. This is really more akin to some thief entering your foolishly unlocked home, disabling the lock so he can get back in whenever he wants, and then leaving without taking anything. Yes, he probably wanted to be able to steal things from you whenever he wished, but at that point he hadn't yet.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
and frankly I think the title should be 'Thief sentenced'. This was about getting rich(er) by theft and had nothing at all to do with 'hacking'. If anything your use of it further disparages the term.
You're right, breaking into a computer system is a non-violent crime. Are you saying that since it only concerns monetary damages it doesn't warrant a jail term? I suppose ENRON execs would certainly share your viewpoint. Grip on reality?, I imagine your views on the subject would change if your credit card was charged for purchases you never made. It would stand to reason that someone doing this doesn't have the money to back up the offenses he/she has done so there would be no recouping of lost money. Hit him up with community service? Sure, in each community of the owners of those cards, 100 hrs each. Again you're right, we can't throw everyone who inconveniences us in jail, but we can make sure that those that break the law end up there.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Question is, would someone caught walking out the building with a backup tape from the credit card database server be locked up for 9 years, or is this just another waste of tax payers money on making another example of computer hakers when really the computers were just a tool in a rather mundane crime.
Some may argue that the punishment does not fit the crime, that it is much more severe then other forms of monetary crime. But what makes cracker crime so dangerous to the IT industry is that it attacks the trustworthiness of the infrastructure. If consumers turn away from online transactions, if businesses decide to reduce their reliance on computers, then IT employment will drop or not increase to its full potential.
Look at the analog of this in meat-space -- people would rather shop, go to work, enjoy entertainment, etc. in a safe environment. Businesses that try to operate in crime-ridden neighborhoods don't do as well, don't have as many customers, don't hire as many employees, and don't pay as well.
IT employment depends on the continued adoption and use of IT by businesses and consumers. If the internet and computing becomes a ghetto of spyware, crackers, and phishers, the economics of IT will suffer. To the extent that people avoid using computers for fear of crime is the extent that ITer will see their jobs disappear.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Would YOU like to pay the taxes required to lock up every hacker and build 7 new prisons in the process? I didn't think so... Jail costs the gov't money... Fines GIVE the gov't money... Now if every hacker was fined, as opposed to jailed, what do you suppose that would do? Not to mention that jail IS pointless... Are they going to hurt anyone if they aren't in jail? Well, chances are they're not going to be mugging anybody, this is a hacker/geek we're talking about. And are they going to hack/phish/whatever for the next few months/years? Not if they're very intelligent. This is just my theory, but I would imagine these people's online activity would be monitored... So if they do try something stupid, we get to collect another fine! But then again, I'm Canadian... (see if you can pick up on the cynicism)
How is hacking into Lowes for credit card numbers a life-affirming value?
How is sentencing a criminal to 9 years in prison for being a greedy fuck bent on stealing people's credit cards anti-life?
Just because you use a computer to commit a crime doesn't mean that you're some kind of hero.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
It's not like they are getting life in prison or something. 9 years is pretty reasonable for breaking in and trying to steal credit card information. What if someone broke into your house and stole all your stuff? Would you want him to return the items and do some community service or actually serve a sentence?
Actually, he used the term correctly. An argument which "assume[s] the truth of an argument or proposition to be proved, without arguing it" will "beg a/the question".
It was stated that someone is going to court for wardriving, which is tacitly stating that wardriving is an offense. However, this is not necessarily so, so it begs the question as to whether wardriving is actually an offense.
The poster himself may have responded to you admitting a misuse, but I don't think he misused the term at all.
I find your pro-crime stance to be a breath of fresh air.
Not mentioned yet, but he _is_ a repeat offender. He brought down a local bbs--insert obligatory plug for arbornet.org!--back in 2000 and was the first charged with hacking under michigan law. http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/netsec/2000-09/ msg00009.html
I dunno, but you'd think he'd have wised up by now.
I think you're missing the point.
Nine years in prison for a non-violent crime? For a non-violent crime that didn't benefit the criminal? It's excessive, especially when murderers and other violent criminals get substantially shorter sentences
I agree with you that he comitted a crime and should do some time and perhaps a fine to Lowes... but nine years is not justice.
And you're confused. He was essentially held without trial or a bail hearing for 4 1/2 years.
Yeah, right.
Prisons were originally designed to stop people from committing crimes, commonly they would only lock people up at night so they couln't break into peoples houses or shops. Only in the last couple of centuries with the advent of the idea of reforming people come in, prison sentences got much much longer and the idea of reforming people in the early days was though harsh treatment and work.
The harsh treatment and work didn't have the desired results, but we carried on locking people up not because of there own rehabilitation but because it makes the victums feel better.
The whole system needs a damn hard re-think, and we need to stop puting people in prisons when mabie prisons arn't the best option.
I'll also make a point that the death penalty is only there to satisfy the sadistic perverted desires of revenge that the victums have. Death is no punishment, and if you belive in reincarnation, it might as well be a free ticket out of jail in the form of a new life.
Yeah, huge fines are going to discourage people trying to steal credit card data. Suppose you hit them with a non-trivial fine of 500,000. What do you think the odds are that any hacker that has ever broken into a server is going to be able to pay even a tenth of that?
How about this, quit wasting time, money and prison space busting people for drugs by legalizing the stuff, and use all the space created in prisons for hackers, and other white collar criminals who commit 'nice crimes' where nobody gets 'hurt'.
Anyone who writes a worm that makes the national news because it cripples half the internet deserves some jail time.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
You have to be really dumb to get caught war driving, your already in the get away car!
Spoken like someone who has never had their identity stolen. What fine is large enough to make up for ruining someone's credit for several years and costing them their dream of buying a home? Will they have to perform community service on my rental unit? This was a crime both against the system and individuals. One count of attempted fraud for each CC number on the system seems about right.
Jail is precisely where we throw people who inconvenience us. It does a great job of preventing them from further inconveniencing us. This time it should work for oh, about 9 years I'd say. At least.
Violent crimes effect an individual in a very drastic way, and such criminals should be punished harshly. However, non-violent crimes effect enourmous numbers of people, sometimes in minor ways, but often in profound ways. Violent crimes can destroy a life. Non-violent crimes tear at the fabric of society in a subtle but systemic fashion.
Is the person who dies because their healthcare fund was raided less dead, less of a victim, than someone killed with a gun? If you think so, I'd like to know where you've had your education-- that school system or university may need more funding.
Fell Much Safer. (TM)
Don't Crease the Weasel!
Crackers, people. Not Hackers.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
Even according to an "eye for eye" meter, frauding CC accounts isn't the same as pulling the trigger against someone staring in your eyes begging for mercy or pummeling a desperate chick amidst piercing screams... these are more akin to crimes against the humanity embodied in the victim. CC frauds are a burden to the system, involves added costs and generally make good business for damn insurance companies so, don't you think you're getting too touchy? Jail good for these guys? Shure. 9 years? It sounds like a bloody lot of time... perhaps too much unless they can get parole in at most 2~3 and assigned to some social assistance to recoup the cost they woul've been to society. (and in some low risk detention center; no need to add torture to punishment slamming them together with deranged people)
Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
Is how stiff this penalty is compared to that of serious corporate criminals that are already wealthy. I've seen some of this stuff up close(I worked on the audit of Riscorp, the CEO of which did prison time). There seems to be a lot of hysteria around hackers-and very little around the REALLY big criminals-who are the managers of major corporations and governmental organizations.
I'm calling myself a white hat code wizard.
The 'popular perception' of the whole hacker (code geeks)/cracker (crypto geeks) myth is a kind of hopelessly unwinnable argument about angels on pins.
Considering the alternatives, I've just invented a new name for myself and left the waste of time up to those poor souls who care.
I've just given the hell up.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
My business partner learned hacking and coding from this guy when the guy was legit.
What he did I think any of us on Slashdot could do. It doesn't require a great deal of skill or 31337N355.
This is in the "Your Rights Online" section because he should be treated the same as someone who thirty years ago stole file cabinets of data about people at a large chain's headquarters. If the data is the same then there is no need for changing the sentence.
That said, the young man did wrong and will get what he deserves. He was a little bit bright and could surely have come up with a better scheme than this. I know I could, but I and his former "student" are devoting our time to a legit business.
Please excuse the shameless plug. We may be legit, but we're certainly not wealthy. Starting a company is hard work. 60+ hour workweeks, paying yourself less than minimum wage for a year or more... No wonder Mr. Salcedo chose the "easy way out".
I dunno, I'd rather lose my retirement fund then my retirement life. There's no question that computer crime is crime, but it doesn't hold a candle to violence.
SAILING MISHAP
No, jail does two things for most criminals:
1.) Makes them even more angry at "the system", invokes feelings of alienation. They feel like they are a criminal and that is that.
2.) Gives them time to plot other crimes. Also gives them resources like other criminals to discuss their failures and plan for better crimes, as they are surrounded only by other criminals.
I'm not throwing blind guesses like most slashdotters here - I've done time. For my own reasons, I stopped doing what I was doing. Jail, though, only made things worse.
The fact that the computer was involved is *not* the issue. This was strait up attempted larceny or shoud have been, there is no need for other charges. The fact the computers were part of the means has nothing to do with the elements of theft. There realy does not need to be an specific laws for *computer crimes*. If someone broke into a neuclear power plant it would be covered by Anti Terrorism laws, possibly treason or sabotage and public order laws. The computer is just an instrument in all of these crimes. Does it make any difference if I burgle your home by smashing the padlock on you garage door or picking it? No I broke and entered a home regardless of wether the instrament was a paperclip or a big rock. People think because a computer is involved some specail rules should apply and thats just stupid.
These guys are theifs and should be prosecuted as such, plain and simple. Just like the guy who hacks into the neculear plant is comminting a crime aginst the state and should be charged with treason and fried. I don't care wether he used his Thinkpad or a UHALL filled with TNT its THE SAME CRIME or should be.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
You steal a Ford or you steal a Ferrari,
is it the same crime?
Should the value of the car change the sentence?
Yes, the value of the car should change the sentence. If I steal $5, should I get the same sentence as if I stole $10,000? Of course not, because the scale of the crime is different. These people didn't try to steal 1 credit card number, or even a thousand cc#s. They tried to steal an infinite amount of numbers. If this program hadn't been caught, they would have had access to every single card number to go through Lowes. That is a HUGE amount of numbers. So yes, they should be punished more than someone who tried to steal1 number, because it is an entirely different class of crime.
"Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
Salcedo was arrested in the last month of a 36-month probation sentence after he broke into Arbornet and many other sites in 2000. The original Slashdot story is here.
A single hacker messing around with the right financial data can ruin the lives of thousands or millions of people, causing more harm in aggregate than a even a few murders.
Murder's bad, don't get me wrong, but the impact of one human being killed vs. the impact of massive computer fraud can be worse. If an economy tanks badly enough, it can destabilize an entire country, resulting in mayhem and more deaths than a lone gunman on a killing spree could "aspire" to.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
There have been murderers sentenced to one-fourth that length of time.
Yes, a two year and three month murder sentence is way too short. Rediculously short, an aberration, and completely irrelevant to determining a proper sentence for computer crime.
or a non-violent crime that didn't benefit the criminal?
Intent is an element of a crime, not success. What does it matter that he criminal did not benefit?
I haven't been in jail but I have clients who have. Jails are infuriating. For example, a few weeks ago I went to the local county jail to see one of my clients. I'm standing at the window waiting my turn. A middle aged guy is there and explains that his son went to court for some hearing and was placed in jail for whatever reason. He had lent his truck to his son to get to court. His son had the keys on him and so they were now in property. He asked if he could get them out. Was told "no - not unless his son made a written request within 24 hours of being booked". After that 24 hrs, the keys stay in property till the son gets out of jail. So he wants to contact his son in a timely fashion. Nope, he can't do that either - he can send a letter or try visiting hours the next day. But then 24 hrs would pass and his sons written request to release the keys would be worthless. They went round and round like this for a while and in the end, the jail won.
A small thing but I can't imagine how much those constant small things would add up. I don't have to go down there much, but I hate every minute of it. If I spent even a week on the inside, I'd come out with a real passion for getting at the gov't any way I could.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Ok, say Lowes processing 100k credit cards in a day. So for each day these guys were in the system you charge them with one count of attempted larceny, in which case 9 years is a cake walk.
Why do people continue to appologize for criminal behavior?
This "hacker" never actually stole CC data, but still got nine years.
If Ken Lay is even given jail time, I doubt that he'll be doing 9 years. He'll probably get 1 year max at the place with the golf course and squash court.
I think much of the complaint is not how much time the hacker is getting, but how little time other people who take part in similar crimes but without the "hacking" element.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Mitnick was held with out trial for 5 years and eventually was let go for "time served". That's why there was such an uprising behind him. Dispite his crimes, he was serverly miss treated.
Who gets their news from a mickey mouse outfit like ABC anyway? If you're going to post some clueless banter about attempted credit card fraud, at least link to an article (or thread) with some relevant information about the case instead of an uninformed soundbite. You could start with one of the following:
http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/AnchorDesk/4520-7297_ 16-5511088.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/11/22/michigan_w ifi_hackers_try/
http://www.securityfocus.com/news/7438
http://www.securityfocus.com/news/8835
http://www.netstumbler.org/showthread.php?t=11115
Some of the more interesting quotes for those too lazy to click on the links:
"In 2000, as a juvenile, Salcedo was one of the first to be charged under Michigan's state computer crime law, for allegedly hacking a local ISP."
"It was six months later - Botbyl allegedly admitted to agents - that Botbyl and his friend Salcedo hatched a plan to use the network to steal credit card numbers from the hardware chain"
"At some point in their wardriving experience, Timmins and Botbyl came upon a Lowe's hardware store with an open wireless network. Timmins later admitted to Kevin Poulsen of Security Focus that what he did next was technically illegal: he used the Lowe's network to check his e-mail. When he realized it was Lowe's private network, however, he says, he disconnected."
"That in itself might have been the end of the story. However, Lowe's became aware of the breach and contacted the FBI, who, after its investigation, charged Timmins with one count of unauthorized computer access. And that by itself would have been a significant story: Timmins's plea has been reported as the first instance of a wardriving conviction. I think the claim is an exaggeration, however. The charge would have been the same had he used a wired connection."
"But here's where the story gets interesting. Several months later, Botbyl returned to the Southfield, Michigan, Lowe's with a new friend, Brian Salcedo, now 21. Salcedo, it turned out, was in the final weeks of a three-year probation for an earlier computer crime."
"According to the indictment, the hackers used the wireless network to route through Lowe's corporate data center in North Carolina and connect to the local networks at stores around the country. At two of the stores - in Long Beach, California and Gainseville, Florida - they modified a proprietary piece of software called "tcpcredit" that Lowe's uses to process credit card transactions, building in a virtual wiretap that would store customer's credit card numbers where the hackers could retrieve them later."
"Brian Salcedo, 21, faces an a unusually harsh 12 to 15 year prison term under federal sentencing guidelines, based largely on a stipulation that the potential losses in the scheme exceeded $2.5 million."
"As for how it was computed here's one probable way: Maximum number of cards in the system at the time they could have captured, multiplied times the maximum credit limit on each. (So say Lowe's does an average of 2500 credit cards transactions nationally in a night, and each has a $1000 Credit Limit. That is $2,500,000 right there.)"
"They were not able to access nationwide credit card files or get into corporate systems," says Lowe's spokesperson Gina Balaya. "They did access six credit card transactions from one store."
"My initial reaction when I heard the charges was one of skepticism," says Karl Mozurkewich, founder of the Michigan software company Utropicmedia, and a member of the group. "Eighty percent of the people in the 2600 group in Michigan are more the c
Somebody, PLEASE find a solution to this semantic quandary.
Don't shop at Lowes. They keep their credit card information on a computer accessible from an insecure wireless access point.
"perhaps too much unless they can get parole in at most 2~3"
This guy is going to Federal prison. There IS NO parole from Federal prison. You get what is called "supervised release" at the end of your sentence - which is effectively similar to parole, but is not the same thing.
Oh, yeah, you can get time off for "good behavior". But the Feds changed that a few years ago. Before, you used to get 53 days a year knocked off your sentence if you didn't get any incident reports. Once you got 53 days for a given year, you had it - they couldn't take it back if you got incident reports in the future.
Now you don't actually get your time off "vested" until the day you're actually due to be released based on whatever time you COULD get vested. This allows the Feds to hit you with more incident reports, take your good time, and keep you longer.
And since it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to do Federal time without incident reports of some kind, this means the Feds get to keep most people longer.
This allows them to increase the prison population, demand more prisons and more money for the Bureau Of Prisons, and increase both their job security and their career paths.
And THAT'S why it was done.
As for where this guy will be going, it depends on his "points", which in turn depends on the crime, the number of criminal charges they were indicted on, any violence, presence of firearms, the amount of any money involved, etc. If they had access to hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of credit cards, they could get enough points to end up in a Federal Penitentiary (the second highest level in the Federal system - the first being a "Super-Max", the third being a Federal Correctional Institution, and the lowest being a Federal Camp.) He could easily end up in Leavenworth. After X years of his sentence with no incident reports, his points could be reduced enough to get down to an FCI, and eventually a Camp if he's lucky.
How he fares at a place like Leavenworth will depend on his smarts in dealing with people who are (presumably) much dumber (but more violent) than he is, as well as factors such as his physical presence, his attitude, his age, etc. I did four years at Leavenworth (after four years in other facilities), including two in "The Hole", and was never physically assaulted (by inmates, anyway - I was pushed around once by a correctional officer.)
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Marshall was released in 1983, after a (new) witness came forward. This is about 10 years before DNA profiling was even thought about, 15 years before it became useful/accurate/cheap. In the inquiry into the actions of the police and crown prosecutors, it became clear that his case was not an accident, with the parties all acting in good faith. I don't think that they had any specific evidence to the contrary, but circumstantial evidence, combined with him being a Native American (to be fair, also well known to the police) was all the investigation they needed.
With all due respect, I think you are the one missing the point. There's way more to getting hurt than bleeding. We see someone who has been shot or assaulted and we feel sympathy for that person, as we should. Our sense of justice demands that whoever hurt them be put away.
But you know what we don't see? We don't see the kid who can't go to college because some fuck wiped out his parents' portfolio. We don't see the mom who has to choose between buying a smoke detector or food because her budget just can't stretch that extra little bit to cover what the cracker skimmed off the top. There are all these little costs that are basically invisible, but they add up and when they affect enough people THEY MATTER. So while physical injuries are certainly easier to empathize with, saying that someone shouldn't go to jail for a long time because they "didn't hurt anybody" is sophistry.
I'm posting anon, because as a former employee, I should probably be keeping my mouth shut.
Sounds like they cracked into the network via the LRTs (Laser Radio Terminals). So, okay, you'll see a big rollout of security across the company soon to take care of that (all stores are pretty much exactly the same, so whatever they did, it will work in every store until it's fixed.). What's interesting is it's probably quite similar in other retail chains. Just a few IBM servers running AIX in the back, and until recently, all the registers were just terminals (they're now all linux thin clients). You could go to target, pier-one, or whatever other big retail chain you like, and try the same thing.
Offtopic: If any clued-in and still current employee sees this post, can you tell me why they removed the lookup lookup account from the system? I was annoyed when they got rid of it; I liked to use it for price audits while running end of day.
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/ohs/Press/12-18-03.htm
The total cost to Acxiom of Baas's intrusion and theft of data is more than $5.8 million. Baas faces a maximum penalty of five years in prison, a fine of $250,000 or twice the amount of gain or loss, and three years of supervised release.
Considering Dan actually did steal the data and only can get a maximum of 5 years, this seems excessive for intent.
This is the digital age, and people are finding out more and more, how empowering it can be to know a few things. This is not the world of 20 years ago, and the fact as some have pointed out, that what he did was fairly easy to accomplish for many people here, should be a warning bell. So by giving a harsh sentence they may hope to stem the tide of people figuring they can finally get that big heist scheme to work.
I had a ridiculous conversation at a drinking party once, years ago. This guy I knew was blearily insisting that I needed to 'hack' a bank, because he was sure I could do it. I didn't know about that, I'm just a regular geek, scanning x.25 networks for outdials isn't the same as breaking into a bank. He was insisting it would definitely work. We could have it all planned out see, and, "Oh you could totally do it man, we should so do that!" I kept insisting that it was incredibly dangerous, and that I didn't know how ("Oh you can figure it out man, I know you can!"), and he just wasn't having any of my protests. Stealing, or for that matter almost anything that risks jail time, doesn't appeal to me anyway. Now imagine someone with his attitude and also the knowledge to follow buddy from the article. This sort of idea can become more widespread as technology reaches everyone, and is a scary thought for those with things to lose from it. People such as, well, any random person alive, could be you, could be me, could wreck a lot of lives.
Lets get the real crooks who cost corporate America more money and are an irritation to society!
seriously malware programs are trojan horses and its cracking pure and simple. Many install themelves via buffer overflows in javascript just like a real worm. Many install keyboard loggers and backdoors just like a real worm. ALso many slow down computers just like real worms. So if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then what is it?
They are the true crooks here.
http://saveie6.com/
There's something interesting in the geekish horror about physical violence and their Darwinian attitude towards non-physical acts of aggression. When it comes to any kind of victimization that uses mental or social methods, it's the fault of the victim for being unprepared, undefended, uninformed - maybe it's a sort of vicarious revenge fantasy, a larcenous "Revenge of the Nerds" or something. But on the physical level, oh no - nothing could be more horrible than being punched or hurt than someone bigger than you.
And frankly, the fear of physical violence is exaggaerated. Yes, injury and death are understandably horrifying, but to here some geeks speak, losing $10,000 is preferable to getting a broken nose. Is it body-horror? The fantasy of being pure mind? People, bones mend and cuts heal, but some of the damage done to spirit (and the loss of time that theft from someone who has worked for it implies) don't always heal so well.
Slashdot needs a Fight Club.
ohhh your post hurts to read.
surely you acknowledge that much that is good in this world is subtle, while much that is bad is sensational. material gain, i think for many, in the long run anyway, is not commonly found to be as valuable as friends and most especially family. From that angle, I don't think a price tag could or should be applied to the value of a person's presence in others' lives. To avoid getting too pussy, even keeping within the hard and accountable view of things, there is SO much a person can accomplish during their lives, from acts deserving fame to the humble role of supporting another person's life. Why do insurance policies pay out such lotto-worthy amounts? because that's (a poor, imho) accounting of your worth from the view of how much responsibility live and produce you have.
This episode of the phreaking internet radio show Default Radio covers this when it first started several months ago. The co-host on this episode knew these people so it makes for a good insider's point of view.
Default Radio episode 23 part 1
Fast forward to 22:30
Hacker Media
They were not being "nice" but they weren't hurting anyone (at least not yet).
... So we have to wait until they (ab)use credit cards before they should be stopped?
'Yet'
The real problem I have is Lowes was putting credit card data on a wireless network!
I agree this is pretty dumb, but it's still no reason for it to get cracked. Think about this: you have an expensive house and several heavy locks on your door. One day you forget to lock them. Does this justify every burglar that walks up to your house, opens the door, enters your house and sets up camera's? Okay, they didn't steal anything (yet), but it's really your fault. Yeah right. They knew exactly what they were doing, and the fact that the security wasn't good enough is *no* reason whatsoever to justify this crime.
He robbed people, or attempted to rob them. This is like robbing a bank, only worse.
No, it's not. Theft and robbery are different animals. These guys never held a gun to someone's head, never threatened anyone. They are more akin to cat burglers than "robbers".
Nine years is longer than a manslaughter conviction. Longer than most murder convictions. Longer than rape convictions. What kind of fucking idiot are you to value some large corporation's potential bottom line (since they actually stole nothing) more than the life of another human being?
This conviction is bullshit, made solely to prove a point by sadistic bastards like yourself.
The 3rd guy, Adam Botbyl, used to live on the street behind mine. He's a couple years younger than me; my little brother knew him better than I did. (This article names him)
This was probably 10 years ago (him and my brother would have been in 5th or 6th grade), but one interesting bit of trivia is that he was the butt of jokes by the other kids. A bunch of the neighbor kids were into collecting basketball cards. Some of the crueler ones would put common cards back into the pack and glue the top together, and they'd sell or trade them to Adam.
As I heard about this through my brother, it was portrayed that Adam was hella gullible. One pack had a card from the wrong brand in it (e.g. a Topps card in an Upper Deck pack); the other kids told him that it must be some error and might be more valuable. Whether the kid actually believed it or just went along to avert more bullshit is a question for him.
Stories like this were pretty common, and I wonder what that does to a kid, having no good friends around.
Now, I'm not saying that's an excuse; he's a total stupidass for what he did.
My stupid web site
The defendant was already on probation. He was busted in 2000 for cracking passwords on arbornet.org. He was 17 at the time, and one of the terms of his probation was to stay off the internet.
n ews-11/1103213452260230.xml
http://www.mlive.com/news/aanews/index.ssf?/base/
(limited personal information cookie-filling-out required)
Boo hoo. He voilated the terms of his cake-walk probabtion. Have fun in prison.
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.