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New Apple IT Pro Section

aqsalter writes "Apple has finally created a new section for information from an IT Professionals viewpoint, with articles about all the good stuff. Previously Apple shied away from having any obvious IT focus, but it seems Apple are acknowledging their influence in the IT sphere, with two high-profile HPC clusters and enterprise class tools for managing open source technologies."

178 comments

  1. this was announced last week... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when apple released Xsan and their new Xserve.

  2. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Look, shiny iHome pictures.

    1. Re:Who cares? by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      Yeah, apple's new card board box iHome centre is certainly going to sell like hotcakes.

      You know though, in the US we spell it center, not centre. Whoever did this hoax forgot about that one little technicality.

    2. Re:Who cares? by DavidLeblond · · Score: 1

      Apple also does not make their computers out of cardboard and would not package their new computers in an iBook box with a printed piece of paper taped to the top.

      They forgot about those technicalities as well. ;)

    3. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cardboard box will most likely be more effective than any version of Windows given the steady stream of security issues facing MS products.

    4. Re:Who cares? by geoffspear · · Score: 1

      Apple also wouldn't be shipping a product with a name it doesn't have trademarked before the packaging was printed. Especially if someone else has the name trademarked for use in "home entertainment systems."

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
  3. Nice :) by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 1, Funny

    Good going Apple, just branch out in as many areas as possible and make more people happy :)

    --
    This is the sig that says NI (again)
    1. Re:Nice :) by vonFinkelstien · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Apple really needs to change some old die-hard views before it can really penitrate most corporate IT systems.

      Most of the IT guys I know, who are calling the shots, are Windows only. Mention a Mac and they cringe.

      At one school I teach at the IT admin has to put up with Macs, because we have a recording studio. Me (ESL teacher) and the music teacher also bring in our Mac laptops from time to time, which he hates. I find it strange that the music computer lab only has PCs, when it would be better for the students to have some Macs. However, with the current IT admin, there will not be any Macs there soon.

      I actually keep hoping that a student will infest the network with a virsus or worm. Then I and the music teacher can say, "You know, if the server and lab boxes were Macs. You wouldn't have this problem."

    2. Re:Nice :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
      I actually keep hoping that a student will infest the network with a virsus or worm. Then I and the music teacher can say, "You know, if the server and lab boxes were Macs. You wouldn't have this problem."

      Great idea! Cause there's nothing IT admins love more than being told how to do their job!

    3. Re:Nice :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Great idea! Cause there's nothing IT admins love more than being told how to do their job!

      Maybe they don't love being told how to do their jobs, but they sure as hell love creating job security by standardizing us all on machines that require near constant attention.

      I love when our IT guys try to tell us things like "Macs can't network", "Macs can't use the internet", and my personal favorite... "Apple is going out of business".

      Maybe instead of being told how to do their jobs, they should take it upon themselves to learn how to do their jobs.

    4. Re:Nice :) by pknoll · · Score: 1
      Most of the IT guys I know, who are calling the shots, are Windows only. Mention a Mac and they cringe.

      Then do what I do: Don't mention "Mac". Mention "Apple" instead.

      For whatever reason, it seems like those of us who have negative reactions to "Macs" (including myself, until recently) don't react as strongly to "Apple". Possibly because of the long-standing tradition of describing the company as an underdog, etc. I can' really explain it.

      All I know is it's been easier to talk to Windows guys about buying an Apple server than talking about buying a Mac, even though it's the same thing.

      Macs are weird little brown things with built-in monitors. Apples are sleek, trim aluminum and they run OSX. It's bizarre, but it's true in my experience.

    5. Re:Nice :) by gb506 · · Score: 3, Funny
      Most of the IT guys I know, who are calling the shots, are Windows only. Mention a Mac and they cringe.

      That's because the Mac would set them free - free of a job, that is...

    6. Re:Nice :) by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Nonsense! No IT professional would ever have a poorly founded emotional reaction to the word "Mac"! How dare you impugn their integrity?

      oh wait.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    7. Re:Nice :) by L0neW0lf · · Score: 1


      I love when our IT guys try to tell us things like "Macs can't network", "Macs can't use the internet", and my personal favorite... "Apple is going out of business".
      Maybe instead of being told how to do their jobs, they should take it upon themselves to learn how to do their jobs.


      Perhaps it would be helpful for us to have a site like this to LEARN how to do our jobs.

      Ever have a problem with Windows? Well, even if you're a neophyte there are shelves and shelves of books galore on what to do and how to learn it.

      Ever have a problem with Mac OS X Server? Go look for a book...and yes, I have. O'Reilly's first one is due out this year. I found one book that deals with Jaguar server, and it was out of print, I had to buy it used. Nothing on Panther server. Instead, to learn I had to find other people on web forums who had struggled through the same things before I did and get their help. I learned through the process, but I shouldn't have to frigging do that; better resources need to be available.

      I have no problem supporting Macs...now give me the tools to do it. Apple barely gave me enough paper to wipe my arse with for OS X Server documentation.

      Macs make a great standalone computer. But I find most Mac users who gripe about sysadmins' bias have never set up a MacOS X Server, Netboot, Macintosh Manager, or dealt with what goes along with it.

      --

      Never look down your nose at others. Someday, someone is bound to see your boogers.
    8. Re:Nice :) by macthulhu · · Score: 1
      I just saw this link to a website that has the sort of info you're looking for... The title was "New Apple IT Pro Section" on a website called "slashdot".

      Sorry. Had to.

      --

      Someday a real rain is gonna come...

    9. Re:Nice :) by MissTuxie · · Score: 1

      yeah, but I'm still waiting for my iOven! How am I supposed to cook on those old-fashioned white home appliances?

    10. Re:Nice :) by ad0gg · · Score: 1
      "Apple is going out of business".

      They'll won't go out of business anytime soon but their market share will keep going down. Every year it drops, it is 1.7% down from 2% in 2002. And because of this, the 3rd party software market is drying up. I can count the number of games released in 2004 on my hand. Luckily apple has itunes and ipod to make up revenue difference.

      --

      Have you ever been to a turkish prison?

    11. Re:Nice :) by ToteAdler · · Score: 1
      I can count the number of games released in 2004 on my hand.

      Wow it must be strange having so many fingers on one hand. Seriously, although they are usually a few months behind a lot of games avalible for the PC are also available for the Mac. If you're a hard-core gamer then the Mac isn't the right hardware but other than that this is an old lame argument that hasn't been valid in years.

    12. Re:Nice :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, here I was thinking their marketshare was getting bigger... cus I heard the opposite and your hand must have more than 20 fingers to support that view!

    13. Re:Nice :) by sdmacguru · · Score: 1

      Dude,
      Did you find the massive heap of PDF's on the Server install disk? They are large, large documents chock-full of good stuff. Everything you need to know to get started with NetInfo, filesharing, netboot, workgroup manager, etc.


      Did you know you can look through the discussions on Apple's website to find all kinds of information, nicely organized by topic, to see what else other people are doing to solve problems? Lots of good stuff.
      I think you are not giving the provided documentation on the install disk enough credit, nor using the other resources provided by Apple, in short.

      Now, you raise a good point about third-party resources. It would be nice if there were more books on the bookshelf in regards to OS X Server, but there are a couple now and more on the way.

      The real point is, if IT Admins were to realistically evaluate the offerings of Windows vs. Mac as a primary business platform or integrating one into the other in a heterogenous environment, many more networks would have OS X present.
      If IT admins had to justify excluding macs or better yet, making further investments into Windows licensing, every year in their annual budget (or performance review!), many more networks would have OS X present.

      I believe every large exploit that is announced or better yet, utilized to damage networks, will drive more customers to OS X.
      Here's hoping.

      --
      If I had some ham, I'd make a ham sandwich, if I had some bread
  4. 404 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The document of most immediate interest for the armchair paranoiac - the NSA config guide for OS X - returns a broken link.

    1. Re:404 by blowdart · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well the server it's on was configured not to leak any information.

    2. Re:404 by Thebogey · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can find the doc if you go here: http://www.nsa.gov/snac/downloads_macX.cfm

      --
      I am Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated.
    3. Re:404 by colinleroy · · Score: 1

      Do you really trust the NSA to help you (completely) secure your computer ? ;)

      --
      blah
    4. Re:404 by Matt+Clare · · Score: 1

      I know, www.nsa.gov/snac/os/applemac/osx_client_final_v.1. pdf is not only a 404, it's an IIS 404. Why should I trust someone to help me secure my machine if they are running IIS?

      --
      .\.\att Clare
    5. Re:404 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really trust the NSA to help you (completely) secure your computer ? ;)

      Compared to who?

      -Anonymous Phil

  5. About time! by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is really long overdue. Apple has been an force for innovation in the desktop market since its inception, but they've never been taken all that seriously in the enterprise-class server market until recently. This shows that Apple really does want to be taken seriously.

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    1. Re:About time! by retartedted · · Score: 0

      well if they want to be taken seriously then lets cross our fingers that Steve Jobs doesnt come out in his SteveNote address today flapping his arms like some people.... http://www.ntk.net/media/dancemonkeyboy.mpg

    2. Re:About time! by grouse · · Score: 1

      This shows that Apple really does want to be taken seriously.

      As opposed to before, when they really wanted to be taken as a joke.

    3. Re:About time! by zonker · · Score: 0

      apple just announced the mac mini. $499! here's the pics: http://grizzlor.org/mini.jpg and http://webpages.charter.net/mattman7/mini.jpg (mirrors)

      New member of Mac family Slot-load Combo optical drive. Play DVDs, burn CDs. Quiet. Tiny, FireWire, ethernet, USB 2.o, both DVI/VGA output. Very tiny. Height is half the size of an iPod mini. Bring Your Own Display, Keyboard, Mouse.

    4. Re:About time! by zonker · · Score: 0

      good live coverage via irc here:
      http://www.apple-x.net/modules.php?op=modlo ad&name =News&file=article&sid=1285

    5. Re:About time! by zonker · · Score: 0

      more irc channels here:
      http://chat.macnn.com/

      new ipod shuffle
      512MB (120 songs) $99
      1GB of memory, $149

      USB 2 connector, 12 hour battery, PC or Mac, comes with a lanyard.

      http://grizzlor.org/shuf.jpg and http://webpages.charter.net/mattman7/shuf.jpg

  6. Indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple's iPod advertising and marketing gurus run for cover.

    Does this mark the end of Apple's poster child's popularity?

  7. Nobody ever reads the article... by IO+ERROR · · Score: 4, Informative
    Since you probably didn't RTFA, here's some more good stuff:

    Security Guide for OS X - by the U.S. National Security Agency
    Email virus protection - setup SpamAssassin, ClamAV and Amavisd-new with Postfix on OS X
    Linux Magazine gives OS X five penguins

    The nice thing about this site, as a developer, is that everything I was looking for regarding OS X is all here. Tools, manuals, FAQs, discussion boards, you name it, it's here.

    --
    How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
  8. Another useful site... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    A good site for managing OS X servers that seems to be getting better all the time is http://www.afp548.com/. I'm not affiliated with them btw, but it's worth checking out if this is your business.

    1. Re:Another useful site... by macshome · · Score: 1

      Just to let you guys know before you hammer the site, our co-lo has been having, um, issues. So it might be a bit slow...

  9. Better check their links by tuxliner · · Score: 1
    In the Government section : Security guide for Mac OS X
    The page cannot be found The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
    1. Re:Better check their links by DarkBlack · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here's the Security guide for OS X. It looks like they've revised it since they first listed it.

    2. Re:Better check their links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They've updated the version number and Apple's site hasn't updated the link yet. This works: http://www.nsa.gov/snac/os/applemac/osx_client_fin al_v_1_1.pdf

    3. Re:Better check their links by porlw · · Score: 2, Funny

      Should really be something like:

      I have no knowledge of this page, nor would I be at liberty to disclose this page if it did in fact exist. Sir.

  10. If you have a hammer ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    every problem is a nail.

    Historically, Apple had its own operating system(s) developed in-house. Creating enterprise systems would have been a huge extra burden for them. Now, their os is basically _nix. Existing enterprise systems can be easily integrated with Apple's stuff.

    Bottom line: Apple can more easily do this now and so they are doing it.

    1. Re:If you have a hammer ... by pauljlucas · · Score: 1
      Historically, Apple had its own operating system(s) developed in-house. Creating enterprise systems would have been a huge extra burden for them.
      Historically, Microsoft had its own operating system(s) developed in-house. Creating enterprise systems would have been a huge extra burden for them.

      Oh, wait...

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
  11. That does it !! by Fred_A · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm switching to Windows !

    --

    May contain traces of nut.
    Made from the freshest electrons.
    1. Re: That does it !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      "Score:1, Redundant"
      Apparently you're already a Windows user.

  12. One of the things that are desperately needed by ceeam · · Score: 1

    Anyone who challenges any monopoly is a kind of a hero in my book. Monopolised world = communism = you are owned. Competition = free market = you choose.

    1. Re:One of the things that are desperately needed by atomico · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Let's analyze some well-known monopolies.

      Microsoft = communism? Yes, sure. But, going back in time to other famous monopolies...

      Rockefeller's Standard Oil = communism

      Thanks a lot for opening my eyes!

    2. Re:One of the things that are desperately needed by AtariAmarok · · Score: 3, Insightful
      "Anyone who challenges any monopoly is a kind of a hero in my book"

      Within the Apple enclave, there is even less "freedom" than in the Microsoft world. Using the "communism" analogy, what you are doing is cheering on North Korea as compared to China.

      There is much more of a "you must use this hardware to run this software!" thing going on. You can also check with the PlayFair folks about Apple's tendencies. If you want "Competition = free market = you choose.", look to the Linux world. They bend over backwards for such "freedom": interopability, hardware flexibility, and open standards, and user participation in major developments. You don't have everything being handed down from a "Politburo" like you do with Apple and Microsoft.

      --
      Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
    3. Re:One of the things that are desperately needed by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Within the Apple enclave, there is even less "freedom" than in the Microsoft world. Using the "communism" analogy, what you are doing is cheering on North Korea as compared to China.

      That's a pretty funny analogy.

      And apt, too! Apple is just like a North Korea, except that they have fair trade (open source kernal), human rights (well-designed consistent UI), a market economy (PCI, AGP, USB, SATA, IEEE 1392, GigE), a free press (TCP/IP, OpenTalk/ZeroConf, Apache, Jabber, Kerberos, SSL).... but other than that exactly like North Korea, yes.

      --
      If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    4. Re:One of the things that are desperately needed by AtariAmarok · · Score: 1
      "That's a pretty funny analogy"

      The parent made the communism analogy. I was not particularly happy with it, but I ran with what was there.

      "except that they have fair trade (open source kernal)

      Are modifications from the user/developer community being incorporated into Mac OS? Not last time I heard (a dictatorship and not a democracy?).

      ..."a free press (TCP/IP, OpenTalk/ZeroConf, Apache, Jabber, Kerberos, SSL)...."

      Hmmm. Where is FairPlay/AAC on that list? Speaking of a free press, click here to see the latest Apple stories on Slashdot. 2 or 3 on the first page alone are about Apple censoring users and closing communications. Definitely more Kim Jong Il than Johnny Appleseed here. This just does not happen nearly as much in the OSS world.

      --
      Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
    5. Re:One of the things that are desperately needed by Ucklak · · Score: 1

      "you must use this hardware to run this software!"

      I think Apple is more like "you get this software when you buy this hardware". They're a hardware company, not a software company.

      Their goal isn't to sell software to run on a variety of platforms but to sell their brand of hardware.

      --
      if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
    6. Re:One of the things that are desperately needed by davids-world.com · · Score: 1

      Especially when it comes to server-side or server-type software, I find myself having more freedom on the Mac - for one reason. I can use industry-grade, stable open-source unix servers such as Apache, diverse SQL databases, mail servers, you name it. I can also run hundreds of programming languages without having the 'Cygwin' mess, or difficulties compiling things on Windows. If I had to switch to Linux, I could. I wouldn't like the UI, but the underlying tools would be similar.

    7. Re:One of the things that are desperately needed by falcon5768 · · Score: 1
      Are modifications from the user/developer community being incorporated into Mac OS? Not last time I heard (a dictatorship and not a democracy?).

      Actually yes, they are, they have been since OSX has been released both from user suggested features (of which their is a way you can send a message to Apple about things you want to see) as well as the darwin community has sent a lot of features to Apple that where added in the end. Has Apple incorperated them all.... no but Im sure there has been a lot of junk code sent to apple too.

      --

      "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

    8. Re:One of the things that are desperately needed by AtariAmarok · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I was going to say "let me know if I'm wrong". You did anyway. heh.

      --
      Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
    9. Re:One of the things that are desperately needed by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 2, Informative
      "except that they have fair trade (open source kernal)...

      Are modifications from the user/developer community being incorporated into Mac OS? Not last time I heard (a dictatorship and not a democracy?).

      The answer is yes. Go have a look at apple.com/opensource, there's a handy (and verifiable) chart there.

      ..."a free press (TCP/IP, OpenTalk/ZeroConf, Apache, Jabber, Kerberos, SSL)...."

      Hmmm. Where is FairPlay/AAC on that list? Speaking of a free press, click here to see the latest Apple stories on Slashdot. 2 or 3 on the first page alone are about Apple censoring users and closing communications. Definitely more Kim Jong Il than Johnny Appleseed here. This just does not happen nearly as much in the OSS world.

      AAC is a Dolby standard and part of the MPEG-4 spec. FairPlay is not something I like either but that is one thing you mentioned.

      As for the appledot stories, i did have a look, and I'm not sure what you are referring to. There is a story about ThinkSecret getting sued over leaking trade secrets, and some users who leaked their OS alpha. That does not strike me as draconian but hey, its just my opinion.

      --
      If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    10. Re:One of the things that are desperately needed by SteeldrivingJon · · Score: 1

      "Where is FairPlay/AAC on that list? Speaking of a free press, click here to see the latest Apple stories on Slashdot. 2 or 3 on the first page alone are about Apple censoring users and closing communications. Definitely more Kim Jong Il than Johnny Appleseed here."

      Um, even enlightened leftist democracies will do things in self-defense that might not be very nice, and sometimes might seem to be on thin ice, legally.

      FairPlay/AAC isn't exactly up there with North Korea's greatest hits.

      It's more like export restrictions on powerful hardware. Not terribly constraining, really, and not that hard to get around.

      Or laws preventing the importation of fruit into California.

      --
      September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
    11. Re:One of the things that are desperately needed by vwjeff · · Score: 1

      "Anyone who challenges any monopoly is a kind of a hero in my book."

      Apple is a monopoly. Can you (legally) run OSX on a x86 PC? No. Can you legally run Windows on a Mac (via emulation)? Yes.

      I am in no way a Microsoft fanboy. The market has spoken. The problem is that most people don't choose Windows, they choose a computer based on price. Until recently you couldn't get a Mac for under $999. (I may be wrong.) Then the eMac came along and I considered buying one when they became available to the general public. The problem is that I don't have desk space for my 19" CRT and an eMac. My decision to buy a Mac has changed with the introduction of the Mac mini. I ordered one last night and it will be shipped the 22nd. I also ordered a Belkin USB KVM from Newegg last night. So what does this all mean?

      Now people really do have a choice based on price.

  13. Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by Liquid-Gecka · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I always wonder why Apple seems to be so popular for HPC? I mean, Apple makes good hardware and a very nice OS an all, but each compute node is so expensive that it doesn't seem worth it. To buy an compute node with roughly the same power costs half as much if you use Xeon or Athlon processors with support contracts with a large company. I had to design several clusters with a price limit of of $120,000. We could get 45-60 Apple boxes, or 240 Intel boxes. Yes the Xeon boxes where slower, but with almost 5 times as many boxes you get 5 times the memory, 5 times the disk space per node, and such. If your program is that processor dependant (or can't scale beyond a few nodes) you can run several copies at once. The power consumption of an Apple was almost the same as an Intel last I heard and the heat produced is almost exactly the same. Granted over several dozen/hundred nodes this can be a difference but it doesn't seem like nearly enough to make it worth $2k a node.

    So my question is this. What makes Apple worth the money as a compute node? (I am not asking for desktops and such, only compute nodes) Anybody out there have a chance to do the purchasing for an Apple cluster? We always come back to Intel because of the cost so it would be nice to see the other side of the coin.

    1. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by TheKidWho · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Time = Money and the Apple solution saves you a LOT of time.

    2. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by beelsebob · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually the Virginia tech cluster cost WAY less than any of the other clusters of similar speed - a mere $5,000,000 compared to $380,000,000 for similar speed clusters made from x86 boxen. The G5 is a stonking chip - especially for what these guys want to do - lots of floating point work.

    3. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I calculated it out, and I wrote Apple about it, but for some reason they refuse to sell me a G5 for $650 like Apple sold them to V.Tech. I guess I'm not as good publicity as they are.

    4. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by Tink2000 · · Score: 1

      The wierd thing is (and I say this as a Blacksburgian)...

      No one here really cares about the BigMac. (Just for those mods who don't know what Blacksburg is, it's a wide spot in the road with this little college called Virginia Tech in the middle of it.)

      Seriously, unless you are a CS major, no one on campus cares about it all that much. I don't know why, especially how we are supposed to be a tech-y college, but there's just no local interest in it beyond the obligatory "Hey, wonder if we can have a lan party there" from time to time.

    5. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The secrets you lack:
      1. state funding
      2. educational discounts
      3. volume discounts

      Welcome to reality, trollikins. Thanks for trying to be funny though.

    6. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by Tr909 · · Score: 1

      With your calculation (Xserve 2400,- vs Intel 500,-) you leave a lot out of the equation. What kind of casing (sizes) and and reliable powersupplies are we talking about in a $500 intelbox? You won't even get near the quality of the parts and power/heat difference is HUGE. http://www.apple.com/xserve/ G5:55W, Xeon:110W, (Opteron:89W) So that means double powerbill per CPU (Thats a whopping 1KW per CPU per day extra! That's a lot) In your case: 240 CPU's consuming 240KW a day (extra) and the extra heat (cooling requirements)... you do the math

    7. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by oudzeeman · · Score: 1

      Apple gives good prices to educational & government researchers.

    8. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget he also lacks the ability to return all the hardware and get new one for nothing.

    9. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by Frumious+Wombat · · Score: 1

      You're comparing it to the wrong chips. The G5 competes with the Opterons and Itaniums. If you buy the cluster-node configuration (stripped down to the minimum on peripherals), it's less expensive than a major-vendor Opteron system, and you get IBM's XLF and XLC compilers in the bargain. This allows easy porting of code, often with identical optimizations, straight from AIX. Dual-Xeons aren't all that cheap, and when the G5 outpaces them by a factor of two on floating-point intensive code, then the decision becomes clearer. I just built a cluster of them, and for simulations that take weeks to run, Xeons/Athlons don't enter into it. Remember, that with 5x the number of nodes, you also get 5x the failures, presuming an identical MTBF between the G5 and the Xeon.

      --
      the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
    10. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      Did they ever get that thing into production, aside from doing Linpack?

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    11. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by geoffspear · · Score: 1

      I work for the University of Pittsburgh, which is part of the consortium that runs the Pittsburgh Supercomputer Center (along with CMU and Westinghouse). I don't really care about the lemieux terascale cluster which was once the 3rd fastest computer in the world. You know why? They won't let me play with it. I suspect no one at VA Tech cares about BigMac for the same reason.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    12. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by Troy+Baer · · Score: 1
      Actually, only maybe a dozen sites have done sizeable Mac-based HPC clusters (>100 nodes), but Apple has made inordinate amounts of noise about them. The driving factor is usually marketing, as the actual costs of the Apple h/w (once you consider everything, including racks, power control, etc.) is at best comparable with (and at worst 20-40% more than) similarly specced P4 or Opteron hardware from a dozen different large cluster integrators.
      --Troy
      --
      "My life's work has been to prompt others... and be forgotten." --Cyrano de Bergerac
    13. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      State Funding: Why would it matter whether they pay with tax dollars or 'regular' money? State funding doesn't affect pricing any more than paying with "blood money".

      Educational Discounts: Got it. It's not that good.

      Volume Discounts: So what you're saying is Apple STILL MAKES MONEY selling at this price, they just make up for a smaller profit by selling more units? Is this how much Apple's raping us? What's their markup? It doesn't seem that they respect their customers very much if this is the case. They're not even TRYING to be competitive or sell for an honest price.

    14. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
      How did you get $650? $5,000,000/1100 units = $4545.45/unit. Even assuming that half of the money went on the interconnect (don't forget that the quoted price didn't include the building etc.) this still comes out at over $2000/unit.

      I was recently pricing up a dual processor 64-bit box (for doing some out-of-core visualisation work with datasets of several GBs), and looked at Opteron, SPARC, and POWER/PowerPC boxes. The G5 was significantly cheaper than any of the competition. And I tried really hard to make a SPARC system win, since I'd like to play with some of the threading features in Solaris.

      --
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    15. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 2, Interesting

      After having worked with XGrid for a few months, I would say because Apple recognizes that the time and difficulty to set the thing up and the dedicated staff you have to pay are also costs, and they make their stuff 5 times as easier to set up as their competitors.

      --
      Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
    16. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by znu · · Score: 1

      $2K per node price differnce? A dual 2.3 GHz Xserve cluster node is $2999. I'm not sure where you're getting dual Xeon nodes for $999. (Of course you'll need more RAM for both machines, probably, but that's the same price for either platform.)

      California Digital offers pre-configured Mac and Intel clusters. Turns out an Xserve cluster will cost you less per flop than a Xeon cluster. And their performance figures are using the 2 GHz Xserve models, which were replaced with 2.3 GHz models last week at the same price.

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      This space unintentionally left unblank.
    17. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good job you didn't, SPARC performance sucks. Opterons running Linux 2.4 outscale US3is running Solaris 8 as well....

    18. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by NateTech · · Score: 1

      You know, it could actually be *gasp* that no one on campus other than CS majors really gives a rat's ass about computers in general... but that might be just too obvious, eh?

      Some biz majors are interested in learning how to drive MS Office, and some math and science majors want to learn Excel -- but not a damn one of them cares in the slightest what platform those run on.

      They want a machine that does those things as cheaply as possible. They don't care that there's a machine out there that does it "better" -- if it costs more, they don't want it.

      --
      +++OK ATH
    19. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by Tink2000 · · Score: 1

      Well, that'd make sense except for the fact that even though our roots are in Agriculture, we are very much beyond being a cow college anymore. Our CS and engineering (particularly computer engineering and software development) are some of the largest and well-funded in the region. I mean, sure people come to Tech for football, but not many people come here for Theater Arts and buisness.

      My point is... well, it's rather disconcerting to be talking to some really fine random hottie and ask her what her major is and she says, "CS".

      Yes, slashdot, there is such a thing.

    20. Re:Why does everybody love Apply for HPC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lower costs, lower power usage (and therefore heat dissipation and lower cooling costs - a critical factor when you've got over a thousand boxes), better interconnect software, better distributed processing software, more stable OS, zero risk (currently) of viruses or malware.

      And networked games of Marathon over Aleph One.

  14. I hear they're coming out with a new product... by bloggins02 · · Score: 5, Funny

    iT :)

  15. But will they be less secritive? by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful
    While I admit Apple makes quality products and IT could really use systems of that quality. But the primary problems preventing costomers to switch to Apple are the following...
    1. Vendor Lock in: When you switch to Apple for an IT strategy you will be stuck with it. And switching to an other platform is expensive. Sure right now Apple is making good quality products but down the line some other platform may exceed the quality in a large scale. Much like the Macs of the Early to Mid 90s where the Classic OS while once was top of the line started to be come antiquated, and just couldn't adapt to today needs weel. You buy the Apple Computer most likely you will be using OS X (Yea Yea you can use Linux but there is a lot of stuff not proven to work on PPC), so in the future when Apple sucks again you will be faced with a daunting upgrade task. This is the reason why Microsoft is so big, and the reason why Linux is so strong. With Windows and Linux you can buy whatever hardware and still keep the same software, reducing the risk of needing a major upgrade. With apple you are stuck with apple.
    2. Only Apple knows what the future holds:Apple loves to make the big press release and get all the people drooling at their new product. Companies want to be able to plan for things usually a year in advance. So if there is going to be a 5 ghz G5 coming out within a year or so they want to know that so they can budget the upgrade or wait an other year.
    3. Short life cycles: Wow those G4 Powermacs didn't last long. And when their supplies run out that is the end of them other then buying them used on ebay. Some companies may not need to have the best of the best. They often want to extend there system life to 4-10 years between upgrades. We need to be able to get parts for these system when they break, and not just extra harddrive spare Processors, motherboards, video cards. Basically all the stuff to make a Mac by itself.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:But will they be less secritive? by njfuzzy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      G4 PowerMacs didn't last long?!

      They went from 350 MHz in 1999, to dual 1.42 in 2003. Honestly, most Mac users think that was too long, not too short.

      --
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    2. Re:But will they be less secritive? by TomorrowPlusX · · Score: 4, Informative

      I agree with you on everything except the short life cycles. We have a number of 1999/2000 era g4 powermacs running OS 10.2/3 happily running Illustrator CS, Photoshop CS and Quark 6.

      These machines are slow by todays standards, but they *work*, and reliably. The only upgrades they've seen are extra memory and firewire hard disks.

      This is a lot more than I can say about any of the > 3 year old PCs at my office. Some of those machines can barely boot XP, much less run office effectively.

      --

      lorem ipsum, dolor sit amet
    3. Re:But will they be less secritive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      With Windows and Linux you can buy whatever hardware and still keep the same software, reducing the risk of needing a major upgrade.

      Granted, for linux this may be true, but have you read Microsoft's license agreements recently? Software is licensed only for the machine it is installed on, to the extent that Windows and office have product activation, and Microsoft's policy of when hardware upgrades become machine replacements is not public knowledge.

      Yea Yea you can use Linux but there is a lot of stuff not proven to work on PPC
      Such as? I've been running PPC Linux of various sorts on Apple hardware for 5 years. I have yet to encounter any major Free (OSS) software that doesn't work when compiled from source. Sure, many developers don't supply binary packages for PPC, but if you've got the source, why worry.
      Wow those G4 Powermacs didn't last long.
      As opposed to Pentium II/III. The PII was superceeded (and obsoleted) by the PIII after 3 years, and the P4 came along fairly quickly after that. OTOH, the G4 is still in use in Apple's current (non 64bit) hardware today, after 4 years, and with the powerpc platform being designed to scale for some time yet, there should be no problem with running older applications on future systems.

      While your point about Apple's secrecy surrounding roadmaps is true, it is mitigated by the fact that most Apple users expect and obtain life-cycles of more than 5 years, without major hardware or software upgrades. In contrast, PC hardware, while one can more easily predict the evolution, tends to require more frequent upgrades (my experience an average of 2.5 years). In my experience, when managing around 20 each of Apple and Windows systems, the TCO for Windows PCs is more than double that of Apple hardware. All this before talking about the support time given to users, administration tools, etc.

    4. Re:But will they be less secritive? by theoneknuckles · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If it's not Apple hardware then it's Microsoft software lock in. The entire argument in this paragraph is ridicules - "so in the future when Apple sucks again", so you're implying that PC hardware has NEVER sucked? Ever? Apple hardware dating back to the Mac SE are still in use today. It has a GUI and can connect to the web WITH NO MODIFICATIONS! Can *you* run Windows 95 on a 286 today? No, even if you could you'd be cheating because Win95 was not available when the 286 came out. If I am correct, the ONLY way to run a webserver on 286 hardware is to use the Minix web server, created by Andrew Tanenbaum - Linus Torvalds TEACHER!

      See:

      Mac SE Server
      Webserver Mac SE
      Another Mac SE Server

      ( The SE is a 68000 Motorola running at 8mhz on 4MB of ram. So if you can *avoid* clicking the last link directly *today* I'm sure the owner would appricate it. )

      As for short life cycles - oh please. I've was using a G4 single CPU then a G4 dual CPU for 3 yrs before the G5 came out. The G4 was a VERY long life cycle for a CPU.

      As for getting parts, in my 20+ yrs with Apple hardware I have NEVER replaced anything other than hard drives which have ALWAYS been stock (and NOT made by Apple). OMG this is a pointless argument. Where do you misinformed twats come from anyway? It's a never ending story with you WinTel people is it?

    5. Re:But will they be less secritive? by sootman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Vendor Lock in: When you switch to Apple for an IT strategy you will be stuck with it."

      How is this different from *anyone* else? You think my company can easily migrate away from our combination of AD, Notes, Outlook, and EMC? At least Apple's products are, for the most part, based on open-source products, so you could go from OS X to any other *nix pretty easily. Apple may be no better than anyone else, but they're certainly no worse. To claim otherwise is absurd.

      --
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    6. Re:But will they be less secritive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple OS X is definately better then Windows...

      Virtually no vendor lockin when you take into account it's compatability with Linux.

      You just make sure to depend more on open source software.

      If your talking about vendor lockin, microsoft software is the definition of vendor lockin.

      The faster you can get away from that crap the better. OS X is able to provide a nice desktop alternative while Linux continues to mature and you can get users use to alternative software and the majority of OS X software is also Linux software as long as you do your setup intellegently.

    7. Re:But will they be less secritive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Flamebait or troll? Not sure, but just in case you are SERIOUS about this, here goes.

      Vendor Lock in: When you switch to Apple for an IT strategy you will be stuck with it.

      And this is different than Windows exactly... how? Actually, it's not even true. Since the MacOS X Server is essentially a UNIX-alike, it will run most OSS that can also be run on... oh, Linux, *BSD, Solaris, blah blah blah. That's a lot of choices. Sure there will be some non-OSS software, but if Apple is serious about the IT deal then I suspect some famous vendors will start porting their applications, which again means more choice and less lock-in. (The lock-in would involve the vendor's package, not the OS.)

      And switching to an other platform is expensive. Sure right now Apple is making good quality products but down the line some other platform may exceed the quality in a large scale.

      I hate to break the news to you, but migrating from Windows NT to Win2K, and so on, is just as costly, unless the application you're running is built in-house and can be easily ported. If not, you're looking at package upgrades too, usually hardware upgrades, and the perks of sticking to the same OS manufacturer is marginal in many cases. It is, however, probably faster and easier than migrating to an entirely different platform, but not cheaper.

      so in the future when Apple sucks again you will be faced with a daunting upgrade task.

      And again, the same can be said for any non-OSS system. This is not some weirdly unique issue that only affects Apple.

      This is the reason why Microsoft is so big,

      Whaaaaa...!? What universe do YOU live in!?

      Only Apple knows what the future holds:Apple loves to make the big press release and get all the people drooling at their new product. Companies want to be able to plan for things usually a year in advance.

      While Apple certainly is secretive of what they're doing, I don't see the chip or hardware manufacturers being any better. Or Microsoft for that matter. "The Pentium XXX YYYGhz version will be ready for shipping in Q4 of..." is usually never true. It's always late. Of course, I guess you could calculate the "always late" part into your purchase plans, but still... Same goes for Windows 2134.

      Short life cycles: Wow those G4 Powermacs didn't last long. And when their supplies run out that is the end of them other then buying them used on ebay.

      So, what, you're telling me that you have absolutely no trouble finding new AMD K6 processors? Or old model mobos? I suspect Apple will have more backup stock ready if they're really gonna enter the IT market (read: replacement hardware, not new-sales of old-model hardware) and that won't be a whole lot different than most manufacturers. I can still have parts replaced on my Sun Enterprise420R, but I'll be damned if Sun is willing to sell me a new machine!

      Some companies may not need to have the best of the best. They often want to extend there system life to 4-10 years between upgrades. We need to be able to get parts for these system when they break, and not just extra harddrive spare Processors, motherboards, video cards. Basically all the stuff to make a Mac by itself.

      And in all reality, you probably will be able to get all "reasonable" parts, just like any other serious pro-hardware manufacturer. You know, I almost forgot to mention that Apple DOES have stock for broken old machines. Maybe not for a full 10 years, but neither do others. Sun sure doesn't!

      So if an Apple's video card dies, just buy a new one. It won't be identical, but it'll probably work. Failed hard drive? ATA/S-ATA drives will still be around, you may be limited to ATA-133 bus while the drive is ATA-1330 or something, but it'll probably still work. SCSI will probably still be around 20 years from now, considering we still don't have a truly acceptable replacement for it yet at this moment. Your CPU and mobo

    8. Re:But will they be less secritive? by Undertaker43017 · · Score: 1

      Most big IT vendor's are very secretive about their future's. But having worked for large IT shops in the past I can tell you there's a little thing called an NDA. After you sign one of these, future's become clearer... sort of...

      Most of the time you get a lot of information about a lot of future products. The problem is that somewhere south of 50% of those products ever see the light of day, and your left asking: "What happened to so and so product? I really liked that one" Usually the response is some unintelligable marketing babble, which amounts to: "That was too hard".

      So be careful what you ask for, sometimes guessing what the future holds is easier than knowing what the future might hold...

    9. Re:But will they be less secritive? by alc6379 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      That's not what is meant by short life cycles. I've got a (circa 1989) Mac IIci with a 40mhz 68040 processor, 48MB RAM, and a 2GB hard drive. It's chugging along happily; does that mean it's got a really, really long life cycle?

      No.

      Long life cycles mean that there will be parts and support available from the OEM. I don't want to buy an expensive server and find out that next year I won't be able to replace a motherboard/cpu on it because the new G6 is out, and they don't make the G5's anymore.

      The actual life of a system can far extend the life cycle of a machine. I could well go on for another 5+ years with my 15 year old IIci, but that's not to say I can go to Apple for a motherboard replacement in 2010 when the thing finally dies on me.

      --
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    10. Re:But will they be less secritive? by larkost · · Score: 3, Interesting

      1. Windows isn't a vendor lock in? And with the exception of some binary-only ODBC drivers I really haven't run into much that dosenot compile on PPC for linux and OpenBSD/NetBSD (not to mention Darwin). The problems are comparable to the myrid of problems when you start to look over the different linux distro's out there.

      Apple has always made it a point to be interoperable with as much as they can, so you are not really "locked in" to a single platform like Windows tries to do. Apple computers have read PC disks for well over a decade, and PC's still don't read Mac disks. Who is locking you in?

      Apple's major software has always been cross-platform: AppleWorks, QuickTime, WebObjects, iTunes (ok, a subset of QuickTime). And they tend to use standards far more than Microsoft (thus mitigating lock-in).

      2. Care to tell me what will be coming out from Dell in 6 months? Can you give me their price-list? Or are you talking about the features of Longhorn... or it's ship date? How useful is that information when you know it is not going to be remotely close to true.

      People expect things out of Apple that they don't expect out of other companies (or fool themselves into thinking they are getting).

      3. The G4's were out for a while... Apple just moved the marketing name to G5 now. There were several different versions of the G4 processor in there. Just like there is a long list of very different processors that bear the Pentium 4 name... that too is simply a marketing name (and also don't fit in the same [processor sockets/slots).

      If you are talking about service hardware, Apple has a service department that keeps on-hand hardware for a long time. While working for a repair shop I was always amazed at the old stuff that we could get. It cost a lot... but if you need it it is there.

      And lets be honest. Do you think that a 4 year old Dell motherboard is more easily replaced than an Apple board? It is just as specific. The hard drives, memory, and processors (look at the Mac upgrade market) and all just as available (since they are mostly the same parts). And the graphics cards may have a smaller selection, but they are readily available.

      The 4-10 years between upgrades is going to make Mac's much more valuable... they tend to last better than PC's (both from a usability and a durability standpoint). Just look at schools for that, they are using ancient Apple hardware next to brand new PC hardware... guess which gets more maintenance calls?

      The real reason that IT has not made the switch is inertia. The people in IT have their certifications from Microsoft... that is why they got the job. They don't know anything about maintain an Apple computer, and it would be work to educate themselves. So even if the results would be better, they don't feel the need to do so, and have some incentive to try and prevent it.

    11. Re:But will they be less secritive? by TomorrowPlusX · · Score: 1

      Ah. Very true -- I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

      That said, there are companies that sell 3rd party replacement parts. I don't know to what extent they provide backup hardware. My guess is it's slim, at best.

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      lorem ipsum, dolor sit amet
    12. Re:But will they be less secritive? by droleary · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Vendor Lock in: When you switch to Apple for an IT strategy you will be stuck with it. And switching to an other platform is expensive.

      How is this less true for any other platform? It's not like Linux has dismantled the MS monopoly overnight, and it's not like Linux is cheap enough (despite being free) to have people defecting in droves.

      With Windows and Linux you can buy whatever hardware and still keep the same software, reducing the risk of needing a major upgrade. With apple you are stuck with apple.

      Complete BS. You can only use the hardware your OS supports. Buying a USB+Bluetooth motherboard doesn't magically make your PS/2+serial compiled kernel work with it. You're only "stuck" by your limits of migration planning.

      Companies want to be able to plan for things usually a year in advance. So if there is going to be a 5 ghz G5 coming out within a year or so they want to know that so they can budget the upgrade or wait an other year.

      More rubbish. Please point out all the other companies out there that are decimating their sales by announcing things they won't be shipping for 3 quarters. Hint: there are none. Unlike you, they all learned the Osborne lesson. You'll get roadmaps, but Apple's "progression" roadmap exists, too, and isn't too hard to puzzle out. What they don't give you is an "innovation" roadmap, partly because they're one of the only companies that does major innovation on the desktop, and partly because pre-announcing leads to expectations that might not be so interesting by the time they ship. I mean, before they announced Spotlight I hadn't heard about anyone doing desktop search, and now it seems like everyone and their mother are trying to sew up a market niche before Tiger ships. But, regardless, a smart company makes their IT/IS plans based on what is shipping now, not on what might be shipping next year.

      Short life cycles: Wow those G4 Powermacs didn't last long.

      They didn't? I've had mine for over 4 years (wasn't one of the first PowerMacs, either, but one of the first duals), and it's still running fine today.

      And when their supplies run out that is the end of them other then buying them used on ebay. Some companies may not need to have the best of the best.

      Again, this differs from other companies how? Is Dell somehow rushing to ship orders of 486 systems? If you don't need the best Apple offers, get an eMac or an iBook.

      We need to be able to get parts for these system when they break, and not just extra harddrive spare Processors, motherboards, video cards. Basically all the stuff to make a Mac by itself.

      Uh, so get them. Are you saying Apple somehow has special resistors and capacitors made just for their Macs? Are you saying your company already regularly does, but somehow doesn't know how to get parts for, in-house component level repair on old PCs? How exactly does it make sense to pay a $50000 salary to replace $.10 parts on a machine worth $100 that could be replaced/upgraded for just $400 more?

    13. Re:But will they be less secritive? by danigiri · · Score: 1
      I'll only do it with the first one, buy you get the idea:

      • Vendor Lock in: When you switch to MS for an IT strategy you will be stuck with it. And switching to an other platform is expensive. Sure right now MS is making good quality products but down the line some other platform may exceed the quality in a large scale. Much like Windows of the Early to Mid 90s where the Win3.1 while once was top of the line started to be come antiquated, and just couldn't adapt to today needs wheel. You buy MS most likely you will be using Office (Yea Yea you can use OpenOffice but there is a lot of stuff not proven to work on OO), so in the future when MS sucks again you will be faced with a daunting upgrade task. This is the reason why Microsoft is so big, and the reason why Office is so strong. With Windows and Office you can buy whatever hardware and still keep the same software, reducing the risk of needing a major upgrade. With MS you are stuck with MS.
    14. Re:But will they be less secritive? by bynary · · Score: 1, Interesting

      ...so in the future when Apple sucks again you will be faced with a daunting upgrade task. This is the reason why Microsoft is so big...

      Apple sucks in cycles. Microsoft is consistently sucky. Just like when Microsoft released Windows 95, all companies were faced with a daunting upgrade task. Come on. Every 9x release of Windows has pretty much been a catastrophe. Have corporations jumped ship in droves just because MS released a low-quality OS? Of course not.

      This is the reason why Microsoft is so big, and the reason why Linux is so strong.

      Apple is a big company. Their revenue is in the billions and their customer base is in the high double-digit millions (if not more, if you count iPod owners). Mac OS X is just as "strong" as Linux. It has roughly the same number of users and offers nearly identical functionality. Why is Linux so great? Some people don't want to spend the weekend rebuilding their kernel just so they can get feature XYZ to work.

      Apple loves to make the big press release and get all the people drooling at their new product...

      How is that different from any other company? "Sony loves to make the big press release and get all the people drooling at their new product..." "General Motors loves to make the press release and get all the people drooling at their new product..."

      And when their supplies run out that is the end of them other then buying them used on ebay

      That's what service warranties are for. Most companies purchase service contracts with their hardware. Apple supports their products, including all associated hardware, for about 6 to 7 years after they stop selling them. Hmmm...yep 6 and 7 are both between 4 and 10.

      I find very few points in your argument that are either well thought out or accurate. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

      --
      http://www.bynarystudio.com
    15. Re:But will they be less secritive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Long life cycles mean that there will be parts and support available from the OEM.


      Happy days: Apple still supports all its products (including keeping parts in stock) for seven years after manufacture.
    16. Re:But will they be less secritive? by xnot · · Score: 2, Interesting
      When you switch to Apple for an IT strategy you will be stuck with it.

      I've seen this comment a lot with regard to apple. Me personally, I don't get it. You aren't ever "stuck" with something. You choose what you choose. If you're going to regret it before you even try it, then you'll never be happy, because no product/solution/etc. is ever perfect. It's pretty simple, really. You weigh the pros and cons, and if apple seems like the best solution, then you choose apple. If you're feeling that apple isn't for you, then just don't buy. Simple.

      And switching to an other platform is expensive.

      So? Life is expensive. You know why? Because nobody has all the answers when they first start out. You have to spend some money, try stuff, and see what happens. In fact, the only way ANYONE ever makes any progress in any area of life is to try and fail a few times, so they can figure out what works. There is no way to fore-know that something is going to work absolutely, 100% for you, until you get out there and actually try it. Does that cost money? Yes. But money spent figuring out what works is money well spent. Worse case scenario- if the damn thing doesn't work, ship it back! Or sell it to someone else. You always have options.

      Sure right now Apple is making good quality products but down the line some other platform may exceed the quality in a large scale.

      Yup. And the sky might fall tomorrow. Look, you can imagine any sort of doomsday scenario you want. I guarantee to you that 99% of the time, your worst fear is never going to happen. It just doesn't. So stop spending your energy wondering what sort of nightmare could possibly happen 20 years down the road, because you're wasting your time. If you wait and see if something will be better, if that killer app will come out or that magic product that will solve all your problems, then you'll be spending the rest of your life waiting. The smart people grab what is useful NOW, so they can USE IT NOW.

      I'm not saying it isn't useful to plan for the future. But to quote Dumbledore from Harry Potter: "It does not do to dwell on dreams, and forget to live."

      Companies want to be able to plan for things usually a year in advance. So if there is going to be a 5 ghz G5 coming out within a year or so they want to know that so they can budget the upgrade or wait an other year.

      So I guess every other hardware company pre-announces their products a year in advance so that the people who rely on those products can plan appropriately? Um, sorry, but it doesn't work that way. EVERY company is secretive about their products, mostly because they don't want a competitor to beat them to market. Apple is not unique in this regard. All any business can do is look at the trends and make an educated guess as to what will most likely happen. I don't know about you, but for me it's obvious that, for the foreseeable future (1) Apple will be making macs and (2) Processors will get faster. If anything else, one can assume that if something has been happening for a while, then it will continue to happen. Once again, assuming that apple might suddenly go under tomorrow and you'll lose all your support is irrational. People have been predicting apple's death for years, and it's never happened. In all likelyhood, even if something bad does happen, apple will support you for a time while you transition to another platform. And since OS X is so good at working with windows, you can even use a mixed Mac/PC environment while you transition your Macs out of the company.

      Some companies may not need to have the best of the best.

      Correction: MOST companies. Companies are the slowest entities to upgrade their hardware and software. Why? Because they want something proven and stable, so they can be sure of their investment. Therefore, most companies hardly ever run the latest and greatest technology. If apple doesn't come out with a super-fast G5 tomorrow, most companies aren't really going to care. Heck, I knew a c

    17. Re:But will they be less secritive? by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Short life cycles: Wow those G4 Powermacs didn't last long. And when their supplies run out that is the end of them other then buying them used on ebay.

      Which is still better than Dell offers today. More companies buy from Dell than anyone else.They have very good prices, but if you order 200 desktops (as companies I worked for have done in the past) you have no guarantee that what is inside all the cases is the same. We had not only different hard drives, but completely different network cards show up in our order. Some had drivers for OpenBSD, some did not.

      Your arguments are less than convincing. Apple is not so different from all the other hardware companies out there, except that they are both innovative enough, and successful enough that people actually pay attention to what they do. I've heard dozens of complaints that the macworld presentation is not going to be streamed live. When was the last time anyone complained that a dell presentation was not streamed live?

    18. Re:But will they be less secritive? by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      Your first point is the best and, IMO, the most worrisome. But no one knows what the future holds. Apple makes predictions about what chip speeds they will have and so does Intel. They aren't always right and basically you don't know what is going to be available until it is, well, available.

      The third point is just off base. Where I work we operate on a 3-year life cycle and even in cases where there are old systems I don't know what makes you think you can get parts for a 10-year x86 system any easier than a mac. As a matter of fact I recently had that problem with a system used for equipment control (motherboard died, no longer available).

      We only have around 10% macs here being by and large a WinXP environment but that has nothing to do with any of the points mentioned (we're vendor locked in to Dell which causes within an order of magnitude as many problems as if we were standardized on Apple).

      thoromyr

    19. Re:But will they be less secritive? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Yes yes I see you like your Mac... I like mine too. But still it is not good for business usage.

      It is more like Apple Hardware and Software lockin vs. Microsoft Software Lockin. So choose 2 possible future devils or one.

      No I am not implying that PC hardware has Never sucked? But with PC there are hundreds of companies making compatible systems. So when Gateway began to suck people switched to Dell. Now that Dell is sucking people are starting to go to switch to something else, while keeping your existing software.

      3 years in not a long life cycle. Check out Sun Microsystems. They are just finishing up the life cycles for the Sparc 5s with 80mhz, businesses want at least a 10 year life cycle on the products they buy so they know they can keep the system running.

      OK you never had to replace a part. Guess what not all businesses are in a clean or semi-clean environment. Factory Floors with metal filings in the air, Rooms without AC, Humid Areas, Magnetic Fields, People who put their coffee cup on top input fan. Yes I know you love your Mac and treat it well but a lot of people don't, but still a company will rather fix it then buy a new one.

      OMG you must be a Mac Fanatic. I have been a happy Mac user as my primary PC for 3 years and before that I ran a Sun Workstation for 2 years and before that I have been running Linux as my primary OS for 5 Years. Just because I don't see apple as the God Computer I must me a WinTel Person.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    20. Re:But will they be less secritive? by fermion · · Score: 1
      Pretty much this is just the rehashed single vendor argument, and was used 20 years ago to build the MS monopoly. Basically, it siad that the PC was better because there were multiple vendors, and Apple was worse because it was a single vendor.

      Of course, in terms of hardware and software, the market was much more single vendor. There was IBM, Compaq, and Apple. Whichever machine you bought you were locked into hardware and to some degree software. Today is much different.

      Apple and the PC market in general has moved to commodity hardware, so what you are buying is support. The two big OS, Mac and MS Windows, both put you into single vendor status. The difference is that Apple will support it's hardware and software, while MS will often try to push support to other vedors. Given the growth of the *nix marker, the Mac might be a better choice.

      No one knows what MS will do, how it will further lock customers into weird standards. No one knows what the Linux vendors will do in term of outsourcing support or modifing the applications. Insecurity is always an isuue

      The life cycle this is like fashion. If you wish you can buy a new wardrobe every year, however it will be because the clothes are out of fashion, not because they are old. I have Mac OS X 10.3 running well on a c. 2000 Mac, with only a memory and hard disk upgrade. I wonder if XP will run well on a c. 1999 PC.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    21. Re:But will they be less secritive? by alc6379 · · Score: 1
      Happy days: Apple still supports all its products (including keeping parts in stock) for seven years after manufacture.

      I'd be happy to know this. Do you have a link to back up this information?

      --
      I don't moderate anymore. Karma penalty for 90% fair mods? Can I mod that unfair?
    22. Re:But will they be less secritive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're off on a couple of points.

      1. Vendor Lock in? Yeah becaue IMAP, POP, Postfix, Open Directory, Apache, MySQL, Kerberos, .ics, etc only work on Apple(sarcasm). Most of Apple's IT tools are based on open standards that make it easy to coexist with other vendors. I think Exchange, IIS, ASP, Active Directory, etc are more about vendor lock in. You know of any mail clients that speak MAPI besides Outlook?

      3. So I can still buy a PII pro system new from Dell? As others have pointed out, the G4 has been around for a long, long time.

    23. Re:But will they be less secritive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah because sun is who you want to compare your company and model yourself after...

    24. Re:But will they be less secritive? by Britt+Simmons · · Score: 1

      Not the original poster, but can still help.

      Apple has discontinued support for certain technologically obsolete and vintage products.

      Vintage products are those that were discontinued more than five and less than seven years ago. Apple has discontinued hardware service for vintage products with the following exception:

      Products purchased in the state of California, United States, as required by statute. Owners of these products may obtain service and parts from Apple Service Providers within the state of California, United States.

      Obsolete products are those that were discontinued more than seven years ago. Apple has discontinued all hardware service for obsolete products with no exceptions. Service providers cannot order parts for obsolete products.

      All retail Apple Stores and the Canadian, European, Latin American and Asia-Pacific operating regions follow the U.S. product list, but make no distinction between vintage and obsolete. When applied to the retail Apple Stores and these regions, all products on the list are considered obsolete.


      From http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112 142

      And despite what the article says, I've ordered vintage and even the occasional obsolete part with no probems or questions, outside of California. It just seems that as long as they have the part, you'll be able to get it.

    25. Re:But will they be less secritive? by Nik13 · · Score: 0, Troll

      While I can't say about G4's... Any 3 year old PC should be able to boot XP and use office just fine. It runs quite smoothly on a 600MHz box as long as you have enough ram (256MB+). In fact, I doubt a G4 would work anywhere near this fast.

      --
      ///<sig />
    26. Re:But will they be less secritive? by Nik13 · · Score: 1

      And lets be honest. Do you think that a 4 year old Dell motherboard is more easily replaced than an Apple board? Absolutely. It might be a socket 370, but even though they can't be found anymore new, you could find one locally same day for dirt cheap (used), or just buy any cheap Socket A system and CPU for not a whole lot (even less if used) - and it will work just fine with whatever OS you're using (just a matter of using proper drivers). One of the nice things is - I can get the parts within minutes if I need to, and still for little $.

      --
      ///<sig />
    27. Re:But will they be less secritive? by Turmio · · Score: 1

      Andrew Tanenbaum - Linus Torvalds TEACHER!

      Not really. Andrew Tanenbaum was not Linus' teacher. Linus studied in Finland and Tanenbaum is teaching in The Netherlands.

    28. Re:But will they be less secritive? by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 1

      In terms of corporate procurement it doesnt seem like 5 years is that much time.

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    29. Re:But will they be less secritive? by njfuzzy · · Score: 1

      How long has the Dell Dimension series been around?

      --
      My Photography - http://ian-x.com
      The Deathlings (comic) - http://thedeathlings.com
    30. Re:But will they be less secritive? by CrackedButter · · Score: 1

      A good way to compare is with processors, how long did the P3 Dell Dimension last?

  16. supercomputing is random! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope the new cluster has a display http://www.macitynet.it/english/aA20182/

  17. Catastrophe Might Wake Up IT. by Spencerian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Die-hard views in IT about Apple products may change, as did many ways we do things post-September 11, when (not if) a major computer security catastrophe occurs which could render many Windows operating systems inoperable. It's bound to happen--the laws of chaos and Murphy's Law dictate that something with order will be occasionally paired with disorder.

    IT hasn't had that wake-up call yet. History has shown that lack of diversification leads to fatal results. Having only one way of doing things, or in this case, only one choice in handling services, causes a backlash when elements of the systems are put to test.

    I've been an IT professional specializing in Apple products for over 12 years now. Despite the advances (administratively and competitively) that Apple and other companies have done in providing alternatives that work as well or better than the mainstream products, many IT pros still have NO FSCKING CLUE about the alternatives. They aren't TRAINED to think about alternatives, but only to do what they can with what they have.

    They may be a time where one of the many serious vulnerabilties found in Windows is fully and dangerously exploited, leading to failures of various sorts throughout the country and the world. Data is lost. Networks paralyzed. And all through such a time, computers running operating systems that are much more resistant or immune to these issues will aid in keeping our businesses working despite ourselves and our industry's lack of vision.

    It was a lack of imagination that led to the some of the world's notable disasters like the Titanic, the recent tsunamis, the Apollo 1, Shuttle Challenger and Columbia tragedies, the Macerena and Anna Nicole Smith. Someone in the IT world has to wake up and see that putting all the eggs in a basket may be cheaper, but that it is still one basket.

    I try to educate and never preach about the use and capabilities of Apple products, and I'm sure others try with Linux and other operating systems. I hope a site like this, sanctioned by Apple itself, adds a bit more professionalism to the mix of offerings.

    --
    Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
  18. But been there for a couple of months by michae1m · · Score: 1

    still, that gives /. plenty of time to catch up

  19. Welcome Apple by p0 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Dear Apple,

    Welcome to the field of Information Technology. Heh.

    --
    This is my sig. There are thousands more, but this one is mine.
    1. Re:Welcome Apple by aventius · · Score: 1

      Dear IBM, The "welcome" was very nice of you, but I sense a little deja vu here, do I not? Sincerely, Apple P.S. Thanks for the IBM 970's (970 = G5) that kick ass!

      --
      [insert lame joke here]
    2. Re:Welcome Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny that just as IBM types are welcoming Apple to the IT business, IBM has left the PC business that provoked Apple's original welcome ad for IBM. Now who's going out of business?

  20. IT. by saintlupus · · Score: 1

    Apple had IT tracks at the last couple of WWDCs as well. Too bad that the main focus was Windows/AD compatibility and integration and not anything unique to Apple's platform.

    --saint

    1. Re:IT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The IT folks also have information here.

      IT Pro seems more for those who need to be persuaded, as Enterprise IT seems more technical.

  21. Shame by (shea48) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have supported Apple products for years and have always had problems with the quality and amount of documentation Apple creates. Just for curiosity I went to the new section http://www.apple.com/itpro/ and clicked on their featured article "Integrating MacOSX and Active Directory." This page is a sales pitch. It clearly explains that OS X is capable of authenticating to AD, but offers no advice on how to set up that authentication. Next to this sales pitch are several links to the websites of enthusiast and Apple employees who have developed documentation for Apple products and features in their personal time. I think it is shameful that Apple has to link to enthusiast sites for concise documentation of their products. Apple has never done a good job of creating useful documentation. To defend Apple, the do provide a link to their 190 page PDF detailing Open Directory and it is required reading for true professionals. But for questions regarding specific issues or general questions, it can be amazingly difficult to find the information you need. I have become accustom to searching independent Mac resources before I turn to Apple for information. Hopefully, this will change with the new IT Pro focus. Shea

    1. Re:Shame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Definately Apple falls even behind Linux for proper documentation.

      I was trying to develop a simple applescript application so that my users could click on that and have shares mounted automaticly. This was needed because the IT folks were moving around servers so I needed a easy and quick (and temporary) way to have it so that users can log into their network shares quickly.

      It was a most painfull experiance. There were several versions of applescript. Many of the commands were legacy and obsolete and left over from older versions. There was much duplicate commands and commands that have similar names between different versions but have different purpose... etc etc.

      plus on top of that many pre-made 3rd party scripts were in "executable" mode so that you couldn't see the source code and so you couldn't learn from examples!!!

      Nasty stuff, buy the time I figured it out the need was gone and I was digusted.

      Probably 75% of people here that praise Apple never actually had to work with their OSes. Hell most of them probably haven't touched a Mac since gradeschool.

      So eager to sing the praises of OS X like it's god gift to computing. It's NOT THAT GOOD.

      It's fine OS. I am typing this out right now on a Ibook... but it's Ubuntu installed on a IBook and I dual boot OS X.

      It's great. It serves a good place as a desktop OS for places that are unsuitable for Linux, but just understand that your dealing with a closed source OS based on a open source code and they have the same attitudes and corporate culture that they've always had with OS 9 and previous OSes.

      It's good, definately, but unless you actually have used it don't think that it's so great until you learn WHY it's good, first hand. And why it's not so good.

    2. Re:Shame by cozagada · · Score: 3, Informative

      This site is for marketing purposes. Use the support for good docs : http://www.apple.com/support The doc you are looking for should be http://images.apple.com/server/pdfs/Windows_Servic es.pdf I just LOVE apple docs, always written like stuff for dummies, not like obscure HOW TOs...

    3. Re:Shame by rns3 · · Score: 3, Informative
      I do work with OS X Server/Client (as well as Solaris and Windows Server). Of the the three, OS X Server is by far the easiest. It is as reliable as Solaris, but without the extra expenses and MUCH better management tools--by better, I mean I can get the task done quicker without having to remember arcane commands.

      As to documentation, I find that if you know where to look (and this can be said of Sun, too) there is a boat load of documentation. The place to start with OS X Server is to go to Apple.com => Support => Manuals => OS X Server Manuals for Apple's documentation. There are also a number of good enthusiasts sites, but for the corporate line, this is the place.

      I do agree that AppleScript documentation is not great, but its use on the server is better served with shell scripting.

    4. Re:Shame by Dragonfly · · Score: 2, Informative

      Mike Bombich is not an "enthusiast", he is an Apple Employee and his tools NetRestore and Carbon Copy Cloner form the basis for Apple's new Setup Assistant and network imaging tools. I have his Apple business card on my desk as I type.

    5. Re:Shame by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
      AppleScript is one area where the documentation is a bit patchy, but it's the only area. Final Cut Express came with a 900 page manual. The Cocoa documentation is superb (although inherited from NeXT to a large extent), as are most of the developer.apple.com docs.

      Your problem with AppleScript is that AppleScript is actually a very simple language, and most of its power comes from the fact it can send messages to other applications. Your problem could be solved either by telling Disk Utility to mount the shares, or by issuing the mount commands to a shell (something trivial to do in AppleScript, and the subject of an entire article on developer.apple.com).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:Shame by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 1

      While I disagree with the statement about Linux in general having better documentation (Apple has no stigma against putting pictures in their documentation; can't say the same about how-tos and most linux books), I do agree that Apple developer documentation is exceptionally bad in some areas. Often, those areas where they have sucky documentation are for C-based API's. It really sucks when you're looking for documentation on QuickTime and you have to refer to a 1997 edition of Inside Macintosh or you need to look up using AppleEvents and all the code examples are in Pascal. Even some new C-based technologies SearchKit and the audio system have terrible documentation, which basically killed my ideas for an e-mail list searching program and a number of applications where I wanted to give the user the ability to record sound. How a company that prides itself on being built on multimedia can have such bad documentation on building multimedia technologies is beyond me.

      --
      Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
    7. Re:Shame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah because any number of the complaints you listed couldn't also be attributed to linux...

  22. Apple IT dept use all Apple products? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1
    Couple weeks ago there was a slashdot article about an interview with Microsoft CIO, and he said his job was easy with regards to which vendor to choose from... they just use everything by Microsoft.

    Makes me wonder, does Apple use all Mac stuff themselves? WebOjects for their website? What about database, do they even have a DB product?

    1. Re:Apple IT dept use all Apple products? by oudzeeman · · Score: 1

      I know they used to use Unix boxes for .mac, their website, etc. They began replacing those with he XServe G. I'm not sure what is still there for legacy systems, but the do 'drink their own champagne' or 'eat their own dog food' or whatever the hell that stupid saying is.

    2. Re:Apple IT dept use all Apple products? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, the website is run on WebObjects, on Xserve servers and OS X. Streaming is done with QuickTime Streaming Server.

      Apple owns FileMaker so that would mean they have a database but whether they use it for the website I don't know. Oracle loves them and Larry E was a board member so maybe they use Oracle for the larger jobs and Filemaker for smaller jobs?

      Pixar, Jobs' other company, has been doing a transition from Intel hardware over to Xserve now that Apple has RAID and SAN solutions together with Shake for video compositing as well as Pixar's own Renderman software.

      Visit the QuickTime or Pixar websites for movie trailers just to see how well it all works together.

    3. Re:Apple IT dept use all Apple products? by anothy · · Score: 1

      OS X Server ships with MySQL.

      --

      i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
  23. desperately needed: balance by wild_berry · · Score: 1

    State-owned monopolies are part of the communist way of doing things; competing companies for dollars who break rules about monopolies can be punished by the government in a way a state monopoly can't.

    May I assume you're part of the USA population who grew up in the Cold War hearing that Commies were going to destroy the precious freedoms your forefathers fought for? If so, may I ask you to lay that prejudice to rest?

    1. Re:desperately needed: balance by ceeam · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'm a part of ex-USSR population who grew up in the Cold War hearing that "bourgeois" (sp?) are going to destroy.... etc... Don't tell me that communism is ok, ok?

    2. Re:desperately needed: balance by wild_berry · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry for being an insensitive clod; I grew up in the middle of the two: the UK. Heavy investments in our (then nationalised) car industry by agents of the KGB put to ruin the labour force and design skills so that there are either one or two UK-owned cars companies producing cars in the UK.

      But I suggest that government interference in stuff like healthcare and pensions, when well done, is a good thing.

      And my point is that there are too many Americans with irrational prejudice against people who are communists and communist countries, who can let go of these prejudices now that the Cold War is over.

  24. MONOPOLISM != COMMUNISM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What the hell you are talking about?!?

    Communism has nothing to do with monopolism! You must be talking about Soviet Russia, or the old Socialist Germany... But they were Socialist, not Communist!

    On a Socialist state, every production facility belongs to the governament. So, in theory, everything belongs to the people. Of course bureucracy and corruption fucked things out... but that happens on a capitalist state too.

    So there is NO WAY to exist a monopoly on a socialist, or a communist, state... simply because there is no competition. The economy is plannified, they produce just what is needed... the goal is to have stability, not to make profit.

    Also, communism is not a bad thing! Communism don't exclude democracy... Please, try to understand what communism and socialism realy are before making any statements about them.

    (Sorry my broken english, I'm no native speaker)

    1. Re:MONOPOLISM != COMMUNISM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think anybody thinks a corporate monopoly is literally a form of communism; just that it bears an uncanny resemblance in terms of how people experience it in their lives.

      For example, Microsoft Windows is a drab, stifling, inefficient environment, and many people are essentially locked into it (if only because their IT managers at work don't even want to know about alternatives). There are some benefits to having everyone dealing with the same OS vendor, though now people are starting to realize that the costs are greater than the benefits.

      Compare actually-existing-Communism (not theoretical utopias, please), such as Cuba. People are locked into a drab, stifling, inefficient environment, although there are a few benefits to having everything done the same way and everyone dealing with the same "vendor". Many people believe, however, that the costs outweigh the benefits.

    2. Re:MONOPOLISM != COMMUNISM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Parse error at Line 1: ("MONOPOLISM != COMMUNISM") : Mismatched types in comparison.

      Warning at Line 1: The symbol "COMMUNISM" has never been properly initialized. Evaluation may give garbage values.
  25. WebObjects Please by jimijon · · Score: 1, Informative

    WebObjects is absolutely phenomenal Java Framework. About six months ago I started a new development for a hosted web application. After reviewing our choices and budget we opted for WebObjects. Wow where we delightfully surprised. WebObjects Rocks! I cannot tell you how much better it was then other application frameworks I have worked in. Now if Apple would do some marketing there, I could maybe find more jobs using my new tool of choice. Go WebObjects.

    --
    Mind | Body | Spirit | Cash
  26. Re:please stop doing this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But don't our British friends treat ALL companies and organizations (or is it organisations :-) as plural?

    I've always liked that, the recognition that the organization is made of people, and might not be totally of one mind.

  27. How/what do you set up to have networked home dirs by WillAdams · · Score: 1

    excluding of course Mac OS X Server?

    I've been looking into setting up a Sparcstation running OpenStep 4.2 here at work as a Netinfo Server, but keep coming across reports of people not being able to connect which is a bit off-putting.

    I'd be willing to use FreeBSD or Linux though if it could be set up easily (and inexpensively!) enough.

    William

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  28. Sorry to nitpick... by pr0t0 · · Score: 1

    I totally agree with your points save number three. Apple's G4 line lasted 4 years. How long do you expect them to maintain that product line? No one seems to bemoan the loss of Pentium Pro, MMX, G3 (only 2 years).

    Just food for thought. I'm not a systems analyst though, so perhaps I'm missing something.

    --
    I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
    1. Re:Sorry to nitpick... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      That was my Bad I ment G4 iMac.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  29. Re:How/what do you set up to have networked home d by alc6379 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Why OpenStep on that Sparc?

    I wouldn't suggest running Solaris on it, but I've got a SparcStation 5 that has run both NetBSD and Debian Linux during various times of its life. It's held up like a champ with both OSes as a simple fileserver/gateway.

    --
    I don't moderate anymore. Karma penalty for 90% fair mods? Can I mod that unfair?
  30. Re:How/what do you set up to have networked home d by pixelbend · · Score: 0, Interesting

    With OS X Server, all you have to do is create a user account with the nice GUI that they provide and all of the setup is done behind the scenes. If you don't want the user folder in the default place, there is an easy way to change that in the GUI. I admin a Win2k Server and an XServe and I have to say, the XServe is worlds better imo. Setup is easy and fast. Changes are simple. Plus if you run into anything that you can't accomplish with the GUI, you can bring up the Terminal or ssh into it and make the changes from there. Plus, it's in a 1U case. My Win2k server is about 3/4 as powerful and it takes up 5Us.

    --
    Prospective station wagon buyer: "I know what you say is true...but...er...I don't know how to maintain a tank!"
  31. Smart! by ErichTheRed · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Looks like Apple is trying to capitalize on IT departments' relative unhappiness with Windows. I actually have a Mac at home, and I think it's a great desktop machine. From an admin point of view, you can lock down anything you want, and it's stable. Of course, any advantage regarding spyware and viruses will go away once enough people start using MacOS...right now most hackers can't be bothered. One of the biggest problems we deal with is Windows patch management and virus/spyware control.

    Plus, the good thing about MacOS is that the desktop/window manager is fully mature. Recent advances in the Linux kernel really help the whole plug-and-play thing, but it seems like a unified set of desktop apps or an accepted One True Window Manager is a ways off. It's going to take a Red Hat or an IBM clamping down on feature creep and version control to make that happen.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Apple managed to sneak a few XServes in as departmental file/print servers or other low-end tasks. MacOS is very cool under the hood as well as on the surface.

    1. Re:Smart! by geoffspear · · Score: 0
      IIS will start having fewer exploits than apache once apache gets a large portion of the web server market. Right now hackers can't be bothered.

      No, really. It's a mathematical certainty.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    2. Re:Smart! by Nexum · · Score: 1

      Yeah... uh... because it's not like Apache doesn't have twice the market share of IIS already.

      --

      This sig has been deprecated.
    3. Re:Smart! by MikeMo · · Score: 1

      The whole "security through obscurity" argument about Mac OS is pure Redmond FUD. Sure, hackers aren't attracted to Macs yet, and sure, there will be more exploits when they are. However, it is also true that the OS is inherently more secure than Windows. Executing downloaded stuff automatically requires an Admin password, for example, and no one is ever logged in as root. Very few of the global things we see done to Windows are even possible.

    4. Re:Smart! by constantnormal · · Score: 1
      Let's test your hypothesis-stated-as-fact... assuming that all systems are equally vulnerable, then the number of viruses should be proportional to the market share of those particular systems.

      For instance, let's say that Windows has 92%, Linux has 5%, and OS X has 3% (these numbers aren't right, but since nobody can say with any certainty what the exact percentages are, and these fall into the generally accepted current market share percentages, we'll go with these.

      I'm not going to get real persnickety about the number of viruses out there either, I'll simply go with the number of active Windows viruses as being about 180 (I know, you hear numbers from 50,000 up all the time, but let's stick to those in active circulation).

      If the number of Windows viruses is around 200 (I'm rounding up to make the math easier and account for the new viruses that sprang into being as I typed this), then there should be about 10 active Linux viruses and 6 active OS X viruses.

      How many Linux viruses (active or otherwise) have you heard of? I don't follow Linux virus patches, so I haven't a clue, but I can't recall ever hearing of any Linux build, be it Redhat/Debian/SUSE/Mandrake/Slackware/Gentoo/etc, that has been crippled by a virus or worm infestation like Windows 95, 98, ME, NT, 2K, XP have been.

      I do know that while there are a number of patches that are published to plug exploits that a hypothetical virus might use, I have yet to hear of any actual virus or worm penetrating any OS X system, or even the existence of an OS X virus/worm. I only had Virex installed for a short while, as the cure was worse than the nonexistent disease.

      I tend to see antivirus packages as snake oil for the masses, since modern viruses can cover the globe in well under an hour, and it takes at least 8-12 hours for an antivirus provider to detect, identify, analyze, produce, test and distribute a new signature to block an infestation that has already occurred. I prefer to lock things down behind a couple of decent firewalls, leaving no unnecessary ports open, and apply patches to plug what few leaks there are, and try and be prudent about what I click on or download.

      I do hope you don't think that IE, being a much more mature product, and having the backing of the richest software company on the planet behind it, is in any way/shape/form more secure that Firefox, or that Apache is more vulnerable than IIS.

      Microsoft software has more viruses simply because Microsoft assesses the time spent designing a secure integrated system of software products, as wasted time that could be better spent selling defective products to Joe Clueless User -- After all, there's got to be something for the next release to fix, right?

  32. Re:please stop doing this... by anothy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    you're asserting something to be true which is far from universally accepted. folks speaking British English treat collective entities as collections of individual elements, and therefore plural. this mode of speaking is more consistent. take, for example, the hypothetical example (spoken from the point of view of a FooCo representative):
    American:
    FooCo is going to enter market blah. We think we can make money there.
    British:
    FooCo are going to enter market blah. We think we can make money there.
    note that the American English version changes tense half way through, which marks a significant inconsistency. the British version has inconsistencies as well, but it's more consistent than the American version.

    perhaps it's a good time to note that there are more British English speakers in the world than American English (thanks mostly to India and China). also, psychologically, i prefer the focus on the entity being a collection of individuals rather than a single entity.

    --

    i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
  33. Re:please stop doing this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Sorry to post anonymously but anothy is misleading people when he says that the plural form is correct UK usage.

    I'm a journalist who writes for the Guardian and The Financial Times newspapers and their style guides state unequivocally that companies are singular (as do the equivalent guides on The Times and The Telegraph). Even if the company name is an obvious plural, eg 'Saatchi & Saatchi is the UK's biggest advertising agency'.

    By contrast, sports teams are referred to using the plural. So 'Manchester United are struggling to catch up with Arsenal at the top of the Premier League.' But if you were referring to the company that runs the team you would use the singular form: 'Manchester United PLC's share price is holding steady at 316p'.

    Here endeth the lesson in pedantry!

  34. False alarm :( by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought it said New Apple IT Pron Section.

    Well... back to my coffee...

  35. they also run netscape enterprise on solaris by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  36. Re:please stop doing this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not a mistake, it's the British way. It used to be the American way, too. Just look at some old Looney Tunes cartoons: "Warner Brothers present..."

    Chill.

  37. Re:please stop doing this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is they?

  38. Re:please stop doing this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The world is bigger than your immediate neighborhood, and Slashdot reflects this. At first I thought it was sad that apparently your only exposure to English speakers from other countries is here, but then I decided to be encouraged that Slashdot gives you this opportunity.

    Still, pretty funny: "If I only hear this on Slashdot, it must be 133t-speak."

  39. Re:How/what do you set up to have networked home d by WillAdams · · Score: 1

    I'm using OpenStep on the Sparcstation 'cause that was what I last installed and I'd thought it'd be easier to set up (and management shot down my idea of getting an Xserver or even a second PowerMac G5 w/ Mac OS X Server).... then I actually started looking into it and trying to get connections &c. setup, and it's just not working thus far.

    Will using Linux or FreeBSD be reasonably easy to set up?

    William

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  40. mod parent up! by bach37 · · Score: 1

    Heh!

  41. Link! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's The Economist's style guide:

    http://www.economist.com/research/styleGuide/ind ex .cfm?page=805687

    As the parent says, companies (and partners, countries and parties) take the singular verb, but lots of examples where British would use a plural verb and Americans wouldn't.

    So, was the original poster from a country where the plural verb is used more often with collective nouns and just was not aware of the "corporations are singular" nicety, or was the responding poster right and it was an American using an affectation they picked up from listening to British sporting events?

  42. Re:But will they be less secretive? by swinte · · Score: 1

    As others have pointed out, the life cycle on the G4s was actually fairly long for a desktop processor. We have a studio full of G4s ranging all the way back to 2000; we are still actively doing real work with them in an efficient manner. The later G4s have tended to be somewhat finicky for us, but the earlier models have chugged along like tanks for years.

  43. Re:please stop doing this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are they consistent in treating countries as collective entities? (e.g. "France are taking steps to improve worker efficiency.") Not trolling, just curious.

    From the west side of the pond.

  44. Nope. by MisterSquid · · Score: 1

    note that the American English version changes tense half way through

    One doesn't need a doctorate in English (though I do have one) to realize you are mistaken. The American English version, as the British English version, is in present tense start to finish. Your claim regrading consistency is incoherent.

    --
    blog
    1. Re:Nope. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He meant "number", not "tense".

    2. Re:Nope. by anothy · · Score: 1

      yes, as a sibling has noted, i said "tense" when i should have said "number". i think it's pretty clear what i was referring to in the example. and (since we're well past the point of pedantry) even if you got hung up on that detail, the statement isn't "incoherent", just false.

      time for remedial classes?

      --

      i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
  45. Fixed NSA Article Link by Dragonfly · · Score: 1

    Courtesy of Thebogey:

    http://www.nsa.gov/snac/downloads_macX.cfm

    Direct linking doesn't work because you have to agree to an acceptable use policy before downloading the article.

  46. Old news by macshome · · Score: 1

    I guess no one realized it, but this site has been up there for months...

  47. OSS Censorship by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 1

    Hmmm. Where is FairPlay/AAC on that list? Speaking of a free press, click here to see the latest Apple stories on Slashdot. 2 or 3 on the first page alone are about Apple censoring users and closing communications. Definitely more Kim Jong Il than Johnny Appleseed here. This just does not happen nearly as much in the OSS world.

    OSS seems to have it's own brand of censorship. People who have legitimate grievances OSS usability and with how damn hard OSS is to used are attacked by the OSS community and are called whiners and their posts are often removed from forums. Reminds me sort of what Stalin did when people complained about food shortages.

    Or lets talk about people who fork OSS projects because they feel the parent project wasn't paying adequate attention to usability issues. I forked KDE because they were pretty damn negligent in the user-friendliness area. I changed UI stuff and I made my damn code GPL. I try posting to Freshmeat, the central OSS announcment site. They wouldn't post the announcement for my project, because they considered changing a UI "merely a patch" and they told me to go talk to the same people (the KDE developers) who wouldn't listen or make the needed changes in the first place. Total censorship. So much for this freedom thing I keep hearing OSS people talking about.

    At least in the mac community, users are free to criticize software for being hard to use. It's considered a popular past time, and the brutal and honest criticism mac developers receive makes the software constantly improve.

    Usability is an essential software freedom. Freedom to criticize software is an essential software freedom. The mac community recognizes both, and the OSS community recognizes neither.

    --
    Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
  48. pointing out the obvious... by Run4yourlives · · Score: 1

    I think the parent post was using a literary device known as sarcasm.

    But thanks for clearing things up for us.

  49. They entered IT with Xserve RAID by SunFan · · Score: 1


    Where else can you get a fully-redundant RAID for under $10K?

    --
    -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
  50. Whining is one thing.... by AtariAmarok · · Score: 1
    "OSS seems to have it's own brand of censorship. People who have legitimate grievances OSS usability and with how damn hard OSS is to used are attacked by the OSS community and are called whiners and their posts are often removed from forums"

    Whining is one thing. Filing frivolous lawsuits (as Apple has done) is another.

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
    1. Re:Whining is one thing.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... such as?

      And given that IP must be defended to establish a claim of ownership, and that NDAs are actually legally binding so breaking them incurs potential penalties, which frivolous lawsuits are you referring to?

  51. Re:please stop doing this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, the correct usage should not be "We think we" but rather, "My company believes it." Anything else is conversational laziness, which happens all the time.

  52. Re:How/what do you set up to have networked home d by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
    Assuming you have a SPARC32 machine, don't even think about running Linux on it. Linux has completely broken MMU code on SPARC32 (unless it's been fixed recently) and NetBSD is around 50-100% faster (subjectively).

    While you could use NI, OS X supports NIS for account information and it would be a lot simpler to set up a NIS and NFS server on the SS and use that for log on and home directories. That would have the advantage that you can also use it for other *NIX systems. You could also configure Samba to export the accounts and shares to provide a Windows single sign-on with the same system.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  53. Discounts for government employees by mystereys · · Score: 1

    I noticed that on the IT page, there is a link for (US) government employees to buy apple products for personal use at a discount. This discount includes government employees, contractors, and their families. The discounts are not as steep as the educational discounts, but it's significant. You can buy "or "sponsor" up to six system bundles each calendar year (January 1-December 31). "Sponsoring" means placing an order for a family member or friend."

    Here's the link for federal employees.
    and for state & local.

    --
    "Righteous speed demon and trust fund party darling of justice"
  54. Shame on Shame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do you people program anything when so many of you can't write properly in your first language - English.

    If you misused Key Words and mispelled as many variable names as you do basic English no program you wrote would ever compile. Or perhaps are many of you merely script kiddies.

    Spelling:

    automaticly
    definately

    your rather than you're (contraction of you are)
    "buy the time" - now that's pretty hopeless (by the time)

    To quote you reading this and one poorly written post after the other has been a "painfull experiance" indeed and left me feeling quite "digusted".

  55. Re:please stop doing this... by anothy · · Score: 1

    unlike French, which has an official language institute, an arbitrary organization's style guide does not dictate "correct" English in either of its major variants (although such things are useful reference points in both). try google searches for things like "BT are" site:co.uk or "GNER are" site:co.uk for a rather lengthy list of examples from British speakers, including folks like the Manchester council leader. i can point you to a substantial collection of press releases by British companies if you like, too. this is also certainly common practice in speech in England (or at least in London, where i lived for a good while). even a search in one of your own publications for, say, "BT are" site:guardian.co.uk yields a number of relevant hits (although to your publication's credit, most - but not all - i found before i stopped skimming google's second page are quotes from other people).

    i will certainly concede that this practice is not universal in British English - Vita Nuova has recently changed their web site to treat the name a singular, for example - but then, such was never my claim. i claimed that British folks speak this way. perhaps i should have explicitly included the "tend to".

    --

    i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
  56. Right by MisterSquid · · Score: 1

    I want to AC this because it is a bit pedantic, but then you might not realize I replied . . . sometimes I look at questions of language and usage in the same way I do questions of coding (though I'm only a part-time PERL and HTML wannabe).

    Your explanatin cleared up my confusion (though it was your mistake, initially). Even with the correction, I assumed that the speaker was not an employee of FooCo, but an investor or something, someone who was aware of FooCo and thinking to make money by investing in FooCo. In this, case there is no number disagreement: two sentences, two subjects.

    Your point is an interesting one, especially becaause it points to differences in the determination of collective identity and individual identity and how both are affected by the words one chooses. On a deeper level, this kind of discrepancy points to the whole trainwreck of governments not considering individuals who work for corporations liable for the corporation's actions, etc.

    but now I'm thinking that I need to get a life. Thanks for the correction.

    --
    blog
  57. secrecy, smekrecy by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

    1 and 3 have been massively debunked, but I haven't seen anyone tear down #2. Apple does R&D on new products and strategies just like other tech companies, only they don't announce those products until they are in production to be ready for launch. This is so they can avoid debacles like Copeland, their planned replacement for the old Mac OS, and Osborn laptops**, in where the company announced their future product in advance, so no one bought their current laptops and they went out of business.

    Apple doesn't develop stuff like the Xserve and then sit on it for no reason. They just don't announce products that aren't ready for launch. When other companies make announcements prematurely, those announcments are called vaporware, and those companies are criticized for it. Apple doesn't do vaporware, and they still get criticized.