South Korean Gov't. Advocates Linux

Anonymous Coward writes "Korea has now taken the plunge on the Linux operating system, and is now starting to advocate Linux for use in government and public sector applications. South Korea's Ministry of Information and Communications announced the move today, which will result in decreased Microsoft market share in the region." According to the article, Korea's Ministry of Information and Communication "will provide a total of 3 billion won (US$2.95 million) for government agencies which want to use the Linux and other open-source computer programs this year."

Comments

US in trouble ?

[mirko]

Last month, they converted some of their assets in dollars, now they are getting away from USA's most fortunate software company ?
Is there some policy here ?

Re:US in trouble ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, both the US$ and MS are becoming less competitive.

Re:US in trouble ?

[mirko]

Oops, I meant not in but from Dollars to Euros.
And no, it was not meant to be a flamebait but just a question.

Re:US in trouble ?

[gt_swagger]

If anybody is in trouble it is Microsoft. Aside from a FUD campaign, they have done nothing but encourage Linux growth with their strong apathy towards the end user they so often crap upon and insistance of keeping a brutal EULA and locking their users into a product cycle.

Microsoft is failing to compete, and thus their market shares are declining. It's simple buisness here. What... do you want them to get a federal subsidy? Those poor innocent submarine patent people...

Re:US in trouble ?

[dabigpaybackski]

Last month, they converted some of their assets in dollars, now they are getting away from USA's most fortunate software company ? Is there some policy here ?

Yes, I believe it was once known as "enlightened self-interest."

Re:US in trouble ?

[Anonymous Coward]

the dollars almost at $2 to £1, I expect a few more countries will sell up and the dollar will drop even further.

Don't forget China is the second largest holder of dollars, piss them off and bye-bye economy.

Re:US in trouble ?

[NineNine]

Oh really? You got any proof that the largest software company in the known universe is in trouble, Mr. Buffett?

Re:US in trouble ?

[mirko]

Excuse me, Herr 99, but I thought it was IBM whose assets are much more important than Microsoft.
Of course, they're more R&D than Microsoft (who also produce hardware - consoles, mice) but I guess very few companies that size would only rely on software.

Re:US in trouble ?

[RoLi]

The USA cannot maintain an enormous trade deficit forever, so the devaluation of the dollar is just a matter of time.

Re:US in trouble ?

[tomhudson]

Yeah, but don't forget, in a Microweenie's Windows World, IBM stands for "I Buy Microsoft", a.k.a. "I'm Buggered by Microsoft"

Body count:
IBM: 329,001
MSFT: 57,000

... or annual revenues ...

IBM: $96,290,000,000.00
MSFT:$37,470,000,000,00

Re:US in trouble ?

[Anonymous Coward]

US not in trouble.
Expanding foreign government adoption of Linux will help get it on to corporate desktops which will help get on to home desktops.
Linux cannot make major inroads in the US government, which we all ackowledge is 0wn3d by Microsoft.

Re:US in trouble ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dollar devaluation is already happening. Most of it is do to increases in imports of consumer goods from China. This is to be expected as China increases its role in the global marketplace by leaps and bounds. Our trade deficit, otherwise, is decreasing. Especially with the EU.

Re:US in trouble ?

[joschm0]

Oh really? You got any proof that the largest software company in the known universe is in trouble, Mr. Buffett?

I hate it when I hear Microsoft called the world's largest software company. I would guess that there's many fortune 500 companies such as IBM and the unnamed defense contractor that I work for have enough software developers to totally dwarf Microsoft and Oracle put together. The difference, of course, is that we have little or no commercial products.

Re:US in trouble ?

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

Obviously, in S. Korea, only old people use MS..

Re:US in trouble ?

[jadavis]

Actually it can. The trade deficit is not a very large part of GDP. I'm not saying it should, but it can, so long as the GDP stays high.

Re:US in trouble ?

[4of12]

The trade deficit is not a very large part of GDP.

Despite the impressive size of US GDP, around US$10 trillion annually, the trade deficit is still a much larger percentage of GDP than any other nation's trade deficit. About 6% last year. About US$5 per day per U.S. resident.

If I were to take out loans constituting 6% of my annual income each year, it wouldn't take too many years before I'd declare bankruptcy. [Or not anymore, since Congress recent timely action to make personal bankruptcy laws much more stringent (unless you're wealthy and can afford a lawyer to help you through the loopholes:)].

I used to admire the Republican party for its advocacy of sound, prudent fiscal policy. There's scant of that anymore. The USA is in a powerdive and we're set to auger in as a result of current policies.

Re:US in trouble ?

[SgtChaireBourne]

Perhaps the devaluation or collapse of the dollar is a real possibility. Someone or some group has been buying up US debt via the Bahamas and then selling it. Perhaps that is to gain influence or just to prop up the dollar a few months longer. However, if I have expertise in any area, that's not it.

If the dollar does tank, that ought to be a boon for Novell and RedHat, since that ought to make their services cheap for markets outside the U.S.

Re:US in trouble ?

[LaCosaNostradamus]

Actually, NO, it can't. Foreign nations have been raising the alarm flags on the US$ for some time ... hence, with enough of a voice, they CAN devalue it. Waffle all you want, but the Euro is starting to be used in place of the US$ for things like buying oil.

You're indulging in wishful thinking. The rest of the world is speaking in an economic voice that the US's currency cannot ignore for long. And the longer Americans ignore this voice (running enormous budget and trade deficits are the very definitions of "ignoring it"), then the worse the devaluation is going to be.

Re:US in trouble ?

[jadavis]

Sound fiscal policy is impossible without massive overhaul of mandatory spending. In 2004, just Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid added up to 42% of total federal spending. SS alone is more than the entire DoD (and that's in 2004 ... a war year).

Bush cut taxes, but he failed to reduce spending. It's just out of control. Let's hope, for the country's sake, that he does a better job this time 'round.

The only real hope we have is that states stand up and say "no" to federal spending. I don't think citizens alone can do it any more through merely electing reps. The states need to take a stand and say "reduce spending, or we won't collect taxes for you in our state".

Re:US in trouble ?

[jadavis]

I agree that the US shouldn't run trade deficits. I also agree that the Euro is a strong currency.

However, the US needs to address other major budget problems: primarily that the feds are spending way too much money. Without doing that, the US will economically fail. If they do address those problems, the US will continue to succeed exonomically. The trade deficit can help, but that issue will not solve the budget problems by itself.

Re:US in trouble ?

[LaCosaNostradamus]

"exonomically" -- I like that word.

I think it stands to reason that if you're Mr Productivity, then your credit is good in several senses of the term. I agree that the US can sustain significant trade deficits if the federal budget is sound, and the states are as well.

Re:US in trouble ?

[4of12]

I agree that entitlement spending has to be reset on a sustainable path.

Social Security actually contributes more money the federal budget than it takes away! About US$160 billion annually now, ramping down to zero in 2018. Unfortunately, our esteemed Congresspersons on both sides of the aisle keep using the Social Security surplus to pay for general fund expenditures. Otherwise the deficit wouldn't be $400 billion a year - it would be glaringly obvious that it's $600 billion a year and that the folks managing the budget are passing the bill onto the future.

The state's actually could do with more federal spending, as spending cuts in medicare, medicaid, etc. have shifted the financial burden over to the states that do not raise nearly the tax revenue the Fed's do.

We'll all end up paying the bill as prices increase, interest rates increase, and growth stagnates and real wages decline (as they must if we're in a global labor market). Traditional 1970's style stagflation; which is preferable to 1930's style recession.

Re:US in trouble ?

[HiThere]

We can hope for moderate stagflation, but I'm not real optomistic. I expect that what's really going to happen is a wild bout of inflation, which we can hope will not surge over into hyperinflation. And everyone who saved for the future will find their assets either too highly taxed to hold onto, or worthless.

But with an oligopoly running the news, everyone will think the troubles are local, and be deceived about the causes (blaming it on whichever scapegoat is popular at the moment).

If you can flee, flee now. If you wait for the crash, you'll have waited too long. The younger you are when you leave, the more countries will accept you. And the sooner you leave, the more your dollars will be worth in the new location, and the less of a burden an employment history of having worked in the US will be. (Who's hiring people with SCO on their employment history? Lot's aren't, even though most employees weren't to blame.)

It's all well and good to talk about recovering the country, and that would be quite desireable, but we are kept far from the levers of power, and votes are counted by machines whose software we can't verify. That's bad enough, but the major news media are so manipulated that even an honest vote would be acting on manipulated and controlled information.

The only question is which country. If you can, I would recommend learning (or knowing) a Scandinavian language. They currently seem like a relatively safe haven -- but to immigrate you appearantly need to know the language. New Zeeland is another possibility, but immigration is controlled. (Proper, it's an island, and can't support too many people.) If you know Japanese, you might be able to get into Japan as an English teacher...but I doubt you'd be allowed to stay permanently. (I haven't checked that one. I don't speak Japanese.)

Re:US in trouble ?

[HiThere]

If you have a balanced budget, then when the government pays for a public service it just means that the citizenry doesn't need to.

If you don't have a balanced budget, then you are either investing in the future, or living beyond your means. (And we know which is being done.)

Arguing about just how much the government should spend on public services, while valid, is relatively trivial. RELATIVELY!. I agree that it's important, but it won't lead to hyper-inflation and radical devaluation of the currency. The dollar seems to be headed the same way the pre-WWII german mark headed. Expect that in ten years a dollar will be worth less than 1/20 of what it is worth today. And we can hope that it isn't closer to 0.0001. The german mark went through periods of an inflation of 100%/day! We aren't in quite the tough spot they were in, and we COULD take steps to avoid the problem. I just don't see any sign that we are doing so.

So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[BerntB]

I guess this means North Korea will have to use Microsoft?

A marriage born in... well, never mind. :-)

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[gt_swagger]

If this analogy holds true... there is but ONE Microsoft option for North Korea.....

The one... THE ONLY......

WINDOWS... MILLENIUM... EDITION.

I think I can hear them screaming about it all the way over here. :)

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[X_Caffeine]

given Kim Il Sung's connection with reality, Pink seems more likely

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[taj]

"I guess this means North Korea will have to use Microsoft?"

http://www.paulnoll.com/Korea/History/Korean-night .html

You can already see the difference between Microsoft in North Korea and Linux Sourth Korea.

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[Donny Smith]

> I guess this means North Korea will have to use Microsoft?

Hey - when someone terrorizes the U.S., it's only fair to respond in kind!

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[Alsee]

I find this image far more impressive, though it does have the "problem" that people actually need to be able to locate North and South Korea on a globe.

-

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[joschm0]

I find this image far more impressive, though it does have the "problem" that people actually need to be able to locate North and South Korea on a globe.

Nice picture but how did they photograph the entire world in darkness all at once?

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[Anonymous Coward]

Very interesting, never noticed that even with that image as my wallpaper a while back.

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[hey!]

They didn't. It's a mosaic, obviously.

That' said, it's important to note that all that light going up into space is wasted. Proper fixtures would be more efficient, improve nighttime vision by reducing side glare, and allow people to see what every generation before the ones currently alive have seen: the night sky. There are many adults who have never seen the milky way.

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[X0563511]

Of course, a lot of that also happens to be light reflecting off of the ground. In both cases.

Figure out a way to light the roads without reflecting light off of them, and you have solved the issue.

And, to the parent, (not you, hey!), if you can't find korea on a globe map, you are in trouble. Find the bottom end of Japan, and look to it's immediate west.

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[hey!]

True, light will inevitably reflect up. But next time you do a night landing by airplane, look at the difference between areas lighted with full cutoff fixtures and those will poorly designed ones. There is a huge difference.

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[X0563511]

You have a point. They tend to have a glare, and don't really light up the area around them.

I can see where you are coming from as well, I've seen the night sky from the air above the clouds. It's amazing. I could even see a couple satilites (slow moving, steady heading bright dots - cross the sky in say 2-3 minutes).

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[Anonymous Coward]

or, for those of you who still can't post in unicode, "???"==toKorean("Yes")

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[rapidweather]

Nobody as ever seen a computer in North Korea, if anyone has, let them present themselves here, and tell us all what OS it has on it.

I did not know that Microsoft makes popcorn poppers.

I heard that all they have to eat there is a handful of corn each day.

With no computers, what use would they have for any Microsoft products other than Microsoft Cookware.

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[tct25]

Yes, Pyongyang already is.

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[Alsee]

if you can't find korea on a globe map, you are in trouble. Find the bottom end of Japan, and look to it's immediate west.

You really should know better than to give a worthless explanation like that. The last time I had to explain how to find North/South Korea on that map I *also* had to explain Japan.

Did you really expect otherwise? Chuckle.

-

Re:So now the North will use Microsoft? :-)

[belmolis]

Given North Korea's poor economy and technological backwardness, they're probably using FreeVMS. And to please the Great Leader, they probably tell him it's pirated. :)

Way cool

[Dorsai65]

Now to get a few more governments to see the light!

Take note "Monkey Boy!"

[bogaboga]

Oh, I hope my man Ballmer is awake. He should grab his bags and prepare to leave for Korea. We surely live in interesting times don't we?

Re:Take note "Monkey Boy!"

[FidelCatsro]

I now have this image of the Ballmer stomping around shouting
"KOREANS ,KOREANS ,KOREANS ,KOREANS ,KOREANS ,..KOREANS ,KOREANS ,KOREANS ,KOREANS ,KOREANS ,KOREANS ,..."
It is not the most plesant mental image I've ever had .

Re:Take note "Monkey Boy!"

[gt_swagger]

Oh, I hope my man Ballmer is awake. He should grab his bags and prepare to leave for Korea. We surely live in interesting times don't we?

I hear he's busy trying to stop excessive gland secretion -- 10 feet is a long way to skip. Anyway, from what I hear, Phil the Prince of Insufficient Light has been sent to South Korea to send all the evil Linux users straight to heck. He will hit the really naughty ones with his spoon.

Re:Take note "Monkey Boy!"

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the Microsoft hit list?

Re:Take note "Monkey Boy!"

[Anonymous Coward]

That filmclip, together with JFK's moon speech at Rice U in 1962, is one of my favourite filmclips ever.

Re:Take note "Monkey Boy!"

[Anonymous Coward]

It's COREANS, you insensitive clod!

Re:Take note "Monkey Boy!"

[bondjamesbond]

Hmmm.... I for one would be very interested to see if Bill Gates could persuade Gee Dubya to to cause a missile test to "go horribly awry" and land in Seoul. He's in everyone else's pocket, why not Bills? Can we start a pool for this?

You call that news?

[Anonymous Coward]

North Korean Gov't. Advocates Linux , now that's something I'd be more willing to read.
(sorry, bad hair day)

Re:You call that news?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well of course it's news; it's new. Maybe it's not new interesting news to you, but it's new so it's still news.

They're making a big mistake.

[gt_swagger]

Didn't they read that report by those two professors that got Microsoft funding about how Linux is plagued by security holes, higher ownership cost, and a swarm of locusts? I hope they can right the ship before it's too late.

Re:They're making a big mistake.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because in Korea, only old people use Linux, right?

$2.95 million is a small step

[Anonymous Coward]

That 2.95 million dollar figure from the article seems very tiny. Wouldn't be surprised if they still pay orders of magnitude more for proprietary stuff.

Re:$2.95 million is a small step

[H8X55]

2.95 million buys a lot more Linux support than 2.95 million in Microsoft. The portion of money that would have paid for licensing can paid to developers, technicians, trainers. They can use this money instead of just earmarking it for Redmond.

In reality 3 mil is a small amount to 'test' Linux in the 'real world' and see how it goes. My guess, in years to come, judging the strong technology climate in SKorea there will be even more funding to switch from MS to Linux in even more government agencies.

Re:$2.95 million is a small step

[smchris]

I'm thinking maybe it's an investment at Microsoft contract renewal time?

It feels to me like South Korea has been "moving to linux" for a few years now and I'm starting to get cynical.

Re:$2.95 million is a small step

[Dr_Barnowl]

$2.95M goes a lot further in South Korea. Instead of sending all that money abroad, they'll be funding their own people to install, configure and develop FOSS for Korean needs. I'm willing to bet that even handsome wages in Korea are a lot cheaper than their western equivalents.

Re:$2.95 million is a small step

[RoLi]

What more do you want?

Of course it will be impossible to completely rot out Windows in all South Korea, but Microsoft has very good reason to be worried.

Re:$2.95 million is a small step

[UnderScan]

They can use this money instead of just earmarking it for Redmond.

Exactly. They can use that money and pour it back into their locally created Asianux. See Miracle Linux, Red Flag and Haansoft jointly introduce Asianux 2.0:
MIRACLE Technology Conference 2005, TOKYO, 2-MAR-2005 - - MIRACLE LINUX Corporation ( Tokyo Japan, President: Takeshi Sato. Hereafter referred to as MIRACLE LINUX), Red Flag Software Co., Ltd. ( Beijing China, Executive President: Chris Zhao. Hereafter referred to as Red Flag) and Haansoft, Inc. ( Seoul South Korea, CEO: Jong Jin Baek. Hereafter referred to as Haansoft) jointly announced today Asianux 2.0 to be generally available at the end of July 2005.

Re:$2.95 million is a small step

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course it will be impossible to completely rot out Windows in all South Korea

Because of the big CS and starcraft community, right?

The best way to get discounts from Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

It's probably just a price negotiation tactic.

Seems the best way to get a price break from Microsoft is to announce that you're advocating Linux.

I'm shocked at countries that *Don't* use this strategy.

Re:The best way to get discounts from Microsoft

[Dan Ost]

Even if that is the case, Linux still gains from such an arrangement.
In order to leverage Linux against MS, some amount of money and time must
be spent to compare the two so that they can put numbers in front of the
MS sales rep.

So, even if it's just a ploy, Linux still gets excellent PR from this.

Proprietary Software... so 20th century

[v3xt0r]

then again, most Americans can barely use email properly, much less type a shell command.

Re:Proprietary Software... so 20th century

[TeknoHog]

Actually, I think software originated as Free, from its beginnings in academia. It was only later that the idea of selling proprietary, closed software was 'invented'.

Re:Proprietary Software... so 20th century

[rubycodez]

even before academia, the "big iron" vendors like IBM and CDC were mainly interested in hardware sales or lease, and gave away OS and compiler sources. Of course, being assembly, is was only of use on their own machines...

Korean Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Can anybody who can read it say if this would make a good choice?

Re:Korean Linux

[commodoresloat]

I can't read a word of it, but how can you go wrong with that somersaulting Tux animation? I say throw caution to the wind -- install it right away and convert all your main boxes to Sarang linux. That is, umm, if it actually is a distro.

Re:Korean Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Something about how in America only fat stupid people use MS Windows.

Re:Korean Linux

[highwind81]

Actually, that website is a very popular (in korea that is) personal homepage of a famous linux lover, Juksu. Sarang.net is the hosting company in which his homepage resides. If you care for a commercial korean linux distro go here (it's in korean). If you want to check out a great Korean linux community site check out the Korean Linux Documentation Project (KLDP).

Re:Korean Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Bablefish:
http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/t rurl_pagecon tent?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linux.sarang.net%2F&lp=k o_en

"Route under attacker uncle end good five, good ni. Only it knows it will do and it will sleep and the self-admiration which it likes it will not be able,, it will like and and and it will sleep and and and the self-admiration which it enjoys it will not be able. It is joyful it searches and it feels and it holds and and it lives..."

Okay, maybe not.

Tactical move

[Anonymous Coward]

Next we hear about this is that they have signed a 5-year contract with Microsoft to update all the state administration machines to latest Windows, after long and hard negotiations with M$. The price will not be disclosed.

Re:Tactical move

[mumblestheclown]

Mod up, insightful. Certainly more insightful than the gratuitous MS bashing that seems to be the norm for the other "insightful" threads here.

Re:Tactical move

[gt_swagger]

Microsoft is like one of these.

Once you know what it's all about... whenever it's close, you can't resist the temptation to hit the crap out of it. It's theraputic.

Re:Tactical move

[Anonymous Coward]

The price will not be disclosed. ... but we all will know, it's US $2.94 Millions.

Nah, we all know where Linux come's from...

[Anonymous Coward]

Press Release

The Peoples Democratic Republic Of Korea Announces

Release 1.0 of Juche Linux

Created by our Deal Leader with wisdom given to him by Our Great Leader, Juche Linux will bring peace and socialist prosperity to the peoples of the world.

Re:Damn communists!

[KiloByte]

Nah, communism=political monopoly (the "dictatorship of the proletariat"). On the other hand, free software is closely related to free speech, and free speech typically goes together with democracy.

What they call "people's democracy" is as far from "democracy" as possible. A popular Polish joke says: the difference between democracy and people's democracy is same as those between a chair and an electric chair.

It doesn't matter whether you're curbing free speech and free market because of extreme left-wing (communist) reasons or of extreme right-wing (religious) ones. The net effect is the same.

OMG tux rush!

[Anonymous Coward]

So Linux *can* play Starcraft, huh?

so..

[Turn-X Alphonse]

Is this because Asia wants to try Linux and thinks it's the best, or is it because of the anti American (And Microsoft is very American) feelings?

Re:so..

[gt_swagger]

If South Korea is so anti-american, why is Kia actively expanding its US-based holding, and still selling at a WELL below standard price when they have the leeway to bump it up more and still outdo the competition?

If I was in Asia, I'd use Linux for the virus storms alone. How many major bot net attacks and virus storms have come from Asia over the last half decade? I know some network guys that, when under heavy virus attack, block the entire friggin' continent of Asia** at the router... and it tends to help early on before security-hole ridden Windows machines this side of the pond become part of the problem post-infection.

**Is there anybody else who can't say Asia without seeing John Travolta as played by Darrell Hammond on SNL trying to answer the audio daily double? Name this continent.... Aaaaasiaaaaaa.

Re:so..

[houghi]

Is this because Asia wants to try Linux and thinks it's the best, or is it because of the anti American (And Microsoft is very American) feelings?

No. This can be the resukts of any of three reasons:
1) They calculated and saw that in the long run Linux is cheaper. Governements look normaly at longer periods.
2) They want to promote IT development in their own country. This will be good for finances. Instead of sending money out of the country, it stays inside.
3) They do not want to be dependent on only one company to deliver to them.

If there is any thought about Nationalities, it will be more pro-themselves then anti-anybody.

It is just that M$ is the only one having a monopoly (did I really write that?) and they are American. If they were Canadian, English, German or Navaran, they would do the same. It is left to the reader to think if there would have been a monopoly in those cases and if not, why.

Re:so..

[Jedi Alec]

well, exchanging cars for dollars = good. exchanging those same dollars for windows = bad.

Re:so..

[Threni]

> If I was in Asia, I'd use Linux for the virus storms alone.

If you were in Asia, you'd be doing largely the same as you would be doing in the US, UK, Brazil, the Conga etc. Or does being in Asia somehow make Battlefield Vietnam and HalfLife2 work under Linux?

Re:so..

[gt_swagger]

Cedega. WineX. I have YET to purchase a game I can't run in Linux. Are you Steve Ballmer gamer edition?

Re:so..

[muyuubyou]

In Asia... Battlefield Vietnam looks a lot more real.

Re:so..

[16K Ram Pack]

I think the "promote IT development" is a biggy. Even if Linux costs about the same as Microsoft, it probably means you are employing more people doing installation/tuning in your country.

Re:so..

[Darby]

Cedega. WineX. I have YET to purchase a game I can't run in Linux.

I can't even get the Red Alert installer to run.
Also, Heroes of Might and Magic 4 won't run.

Morrowind and Civ3 work great though.

Re:so..

[siplus]

Wow.....
i'm not the only one that plays/likes heros 4!
I have not been able to get many games to run well under cedega. with that in mind, World of Warcraft runs well in FC3 with cedega

Other than that; if it doesn't have a native linux port, i have to boot windows

Re:so..

[Darby]

i'm not the only one that plays/likes heros 4!

I actually got into the series when I got Heroes 3 from Loki.

It's really cool to see the disk case with the penguin on it.

Oh well, hopefully someone else will try it again and the market for Linux games will be better than it was.

Re:so..

[siplus]

"I actually got into the series when I got Heroes 3 from Loki.

It's really cool to see the disk case with the penguin on it."

So heroes 3 (and 4?) have linux clients??

I have both games, but i haven't noticed any linux compatibility. is there a client available?

Re:so..

[Threni]

No, but I like my games to run quickly. How fast does Battlefield Vietnam run through all that crud?

Re:so..

[Darby]

Loki did a port of 3 to Linux, which runs natively. Since they went out of business, I'm not sure where you can get it.

4 only has a windows version, but I can't get it working with Cedega/WineX

Re:so..

[Anonymous Coward]

Republican Morality: Mass murder good. Loving a person Evil. What sick fucks.

Liberal Morality: Mass murder (abortion) good. Loving a person Evil (except if the definition of love includes a gerbil inserted into the rectum). What sick fucks.

Better Yet:

[Anonymous Coward]

In Soviet Russia, only Koreans use old Linux applications.

Re:Better Yet:

[Anonymous Coward]

In Slashdot, only old jokes are being told.

Hear that?

[AnyoneEB]

That cry of anguish is all the South Koreans trying to get WINE to work so they can play StarCraft. (I have done it, it just took a lot of messing with settings.)

Re:Hear that?

[nounderscores]

In Korea, only old people cry... when their starcraft playing kids forget to feed them.

Don't you worry. The finest WINE-STARCRAFT-HOWTO ever will be written very soon.

If you can translate yours to Korean and stick advertistments all over it, you could be a millionaire.

Re:Hear that?

[zerojoker]

Someone already wrote an Howto:

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~hoppq/sc-howto.html

Re:Hear that?

[AnyoneEB]

I believe I have seen that howto before. I had some problem with the palette being wrong (Starcraft uses a custom palette since it is 256 colors) and another with the mouse not moving. It would either look right and have to be killed remotely or the graphics would be too messed up for it to be usable. This was a while ago so I do not remember what settings I changed, and my problem may not occur with the most recent version of WINE.

I wouldn't say Advocates, but the DPRK seems to

[millisa]

Just browsed around their site a little bit and I see lotsa positive open source-ish things.

The Korean Friendship Association USA branch on the DPRK official site uses CMSimple . .which is open source and sits on Apache (though it *could* be run on Win32 or Linux).

This Trip thing they are talking about here has a bit at the bottom of the page that "This webpage and its images is released to the internet community under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License" (with link). Not a Linux endorsement, but definitely in the right ball park.

I doubt they'd ever come out and advocate something that isn't homegrown . . . you don't hear much about DPRK linux users, but somehow I bet they are out there since there's lotsa open source type stuff sitting on their primary web presense.

Or I could be wrong . . . but I'd bet there are some communist linux boxes out there . . .

Re:I wouldn't say Advocates, but the DPRK seems to

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt they'd ever come out and advocate something that isn't homegrown .

Which is why this 'official' Korean site is hosted in Spain? /did a whois lookup

Re:I wouldn't say Advocates, but the DPRK seems to

[Anonymous Coward]

...communist linux boxes...
Yes, they're called Comix!

Re:I wouldn't say Advocates, but the DPRK seems to

[orkysoft]

Actually, I think it's bad that that DPRK site uses the GNU FDL, since it'll only provide ammo for Bill Gates' Open Source == Communism propaganda, and face it, after decades of anti-communism propaganda in the USA, communism is still a very dirty word there.

"We" (as in: Open Source advocates) *don't* want to be identified with such a crazy country as North Korea. Really.

Average American responds...

[Anonymous Coward]

What's a shell command?

this move effect neighbours?

[kokoko1]

S.Korea moving towards open source is a good step in right direction @ right time. Asia is known for piracy no one care about the legitimate software usage perhaps most of asian don't even know that piracy is a crime :) Open source is definitely the most affordable (secure) plateform avaible. I hope other asian governments (IT Minister if they are not corrupts ;)) move towards open source , move towards legitimate world.

Re:this move effect neighbours?

[coolcold]

just wanted to point out that it is a crime in the us doesn't mean it also is a crime elsewhere. Don't just think everything in the law is right either since some of them are pushed by parties and are not necessary

Re:this move effect neighbours?

[orkysoft]

It is if they want to be a part of the WTO.

Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[aendeuryu]

Is this because Asia wants to try Linux and thinks it's the best, or is it because of the anti American (And Microsoft is very American) feelings?

Erm... no. The South Korean government is pretty friendly towards the US compared to other countries, both in Asia and internationally. The population gets a little annoyed with the excesses of some of the soldiers here and the United States government's abrasive approach to North Korea, but that in no way is going to translate to the South Korean government, in a country historically devastated by war that's now more than happy to take slow, gradual steps when it comes to international diplomatic situations. As such, suggesting that Korea is dropping Microsoft as some symbolic slap in the face is a really silly way to look at it. Even if the average young- to middle-aged Korean would like to tell the U.S. where to get off, the government isn't going to. Besides, the average Korean also LOVES their Windows-based games. Linux has very little fame over here.

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it has more to do with the fact that a long-term relationship with Microsoft involving Windows XP might seem too expensive for the government. Windows 98 is still the popular OS of choice over here, so if they're worried that dropped W98 support means migrating to either an updated Windows or another OS, it might be worth throwing a few million at Linux to see if it can be adopted on a broad scale.

As an aside, related to the parent's false dichotomy, why do so many Americans see anti-Americanism everywhere?

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[Anonymous Coward]

Their not that friendly though, friendly towards the US compared to other countries maybe.

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[Anonymous Coward]

As an aside, related to the parent's false dichotomy, why do so many Americans see anti-Americanism everywhere?

Well, it's big in Europe at least. I don't know about Asia, I would suppose Asians have more love for the US than Europeans at least.

I would suppose that the re-election of GWB kinda cemented the negative image of the US population in the minds of many europeans.

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[Anonymous Coward]

I would suppose that the re-election of GWB kinda cemented the negative image of the US population in the minds of many europeans.

And in the minds of many americans too!

Only a fucking dumbass would vote for a hypocrite criminal like GWB. Either that or massive scale voting fraud (I'm sure there was some, but to what extent?)

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[DarkSarin]

It's interesting that this should come up.

I am currently in a cross-cultural psychology course (of sorts), and we had a guest speaker speaking about France and why some folks think that the French hate Americans.

His take was simple--Americans and French are the only two cultures that think their culture is the best and want to impose it (in some fashion) on everyone else. Naturally then, like any time you have two folks who think they are the best, bar none, us Americans have butted heads with the French.

I'm not saying that I agree, but I suspect that he has some of that right. (As an aside, he is an American that has spent a number of years in France--and got his PhD in French Medieval Literature from a French University (not the Sorbonne, although he did spend time there, and occasionally lectures there) that I can't remember the name of (and couldn't pronounce when he told us, let alone spell!).

Now, since we have strayed so far off topic, let me just say that I hope that every country wakes up and sees that the smartest way to run things is on software that they have the source for and can modify themselves. A small business can get away with relying on someonw else to write their software (especially the OS), but a gov't has the resources and the time do it right themselves, and they should. Why? Because of security concerns. I wouldn't trust confidential data of the sort that most gov'ts keep to a host of proprietary OS boxen. (Never mind that they shouldn't be keeping some of the data--that is a different debate).

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[should_be_linear]

United States government's abrasive approach to North Korea
Sorry for Off Topic, but as opose to what most people here thinks, I am sure that *too weak* politics towards NK will lead to nuke-disaster in either South Korea, Japan or even USA west-coast. As opose to Saddam, Kim Chong Il is *real* asshole (tm) that is able to push red button anytime he don't get his pills. Sooner we act, less catastrophy. May I remind you that Tepodong-3 nuclear missiles will probably be able to reach USA, while ver.2 is tested to reach all of Japan. Unfortunatelly for South Korea and Japan, Bush is focused on "war on terror", attacing random countries, while *real* asshole (tm) is silently getting his agenda done. As he learned from Milosevic, when it gets politically too hot it is enough to say "OK, we are back to talks again!" and you have another 2 years to do whatever you like. Europe is also no help here, becouse it is divided to 25 different opinions.

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[Anonymous Coward]

All the Anti-Americans are in the middle east and europe aparently.

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[Anonymous Coward]

The phrase is "Unix Boxen" its jargon .. otherwise boxen means "made of boxwood"

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[Anonymous Coward]

Either that or massive scale voting fraud

Republicans control the Senate, House, and 30 out of the 50 States yet you still act shocked that they won the Whitehouse too?

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[Maxo-Texas]

His take was simple--Americans and French are the only two cultures that think their culture is the best and want to impose it (in some fashion) on everyone else.

I know the chinese have a firm belief their culture is the best. I'm not sure if they wish to impose it on others or not tho. But they have a pretty strong racial superiority complex based in part on the length of time they have been civilized.

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[NatteringNabob]

It is a shame that somebody spent the time and effort to get a PhD only to spout folk lore. I am an American and I have been to France many times and I have never had any difficulty at all. People have been almost uniformly polite and helpful including waiters. I also have several French friends, none of whom hate Americans. What they dislike is American foriegn policy which they basically see as 'kill everybody that stands in the way of profit' and which they recognize because it is very similar to the French Imperial tradition. The difference is that, for the most part, modern France sees that imperial tradition as largely immoral and anachronistic.

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[theLOUDroom]

His take was simple--Americans and French are the only two cultures that think their culture is the best and want to impose it (in some fashion) on everyone else.

I take it he'd never heard of Germans?

There was even a couple little wars about that issue.

And then of course there's the middle east... where people are actively killing themselves and each other for this very purposes..... and some of them aren't even americans!

I suppose it's not your hypothesis, but I just feel the need to say that it's overly simplistic and obviously flawed.

What's funny is that much of the world actually LOVES american culture, they just hate americans.

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[DarkSarin]

First off, I didn't say that I necessarily agreed--just that that was his take on the matter. Of course his whole opinion was much more complicated than that.

Note that the French (according to him), just feel that they have the best culture in the world and that everyone should follow along just because it is so great. He in no way intimidated that they were militant about it.

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[DarkSarin]

First off, he didn't say that the French hated Americans or that they were impolite. Just that BOTH cultures (in some fashion) feel that they are superior to other cultures, and therefore they tend to clash on occasion.

As far as he is concerned, I am afraid that you don't understand--he is VERY pro-French (whatever that is), and loves the people and culture. He spent about 15 years there as a businessman and married a French woman. He was also VERY careful to say that the French do NOT hate Americans.

As a side note, can we get any Frenchmen/women to pipe in on this? We are so far off topic that it's crazy.

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[bhiestand]

That's funny, I think you answered this one yourself:

Even if the average young- to middle-aged Korean would like to tell the U.S. where to get off, the government isn't going to. Besides, the average Korean also LOVES their Windows-based games.

Re:Americans seeing Anti-Americanism everywhere...

[HiThere]

As an aside, related to the parent's false dichotomy, why do so many Americans see anti-Americanism everywhere?

Because we feel our government's actions deserve it? Prehaps.

Perhaps because we don't properly understand the cost that other people pay, so we figure that if we were treated that way, we'd be upset. It's been over a century and a half since we had a major war on home ground, and we've forgotten how terrible it can be. (You raised an excellent point!)

(maybe) Sort of old news

[ihavnoid]

Actually, KIPA (Korea IT Industry Promotion Agency), an organization funded by the Korean government, switched all its desktops to Linux, and that news was around about 8 months ago. I remember, that the purpose KIPA switched all its desktop to Linux (around 100+ desktops), was to test the possibility of Linux desktop in Korean goverment agencies. The biggest problem of using Linux in government agencies, was the vast amount of in-house tools plus special applications that didn't exist for Linux, and staff training issues. I remeber a KIPA staff screaming for help on a LUG webboard, due to l10n issues. They seemed to have some problem because of inadequate Korean support in Linux.

Something that may be ironic, is that KIPA's current president, Hyun Jin Ko, is the former president of Microsoft Korea. :)

Re:(maybe) Sort of old news

[sheimers]

> Something that may be ironic, is that KIPA's
> current president, Hyun Jin Ko, is the former
> president of Microsoft Korea. :)"

Former? Was he fired? This might be his revenge? ;-)

Re:(maybe) Sort of old news

[ihavnoid]

> Former? Was he fired? This might be his revenge? ;-)

No. He wasn't fired. He simply resigned, and joined KIPA. Since Microsoft Korea was in good shape while he was the president, I don't think there were any reason to fire him.

Actually, many Korean software corporations were getting nuts when the announcementnt was made that Ko was designated be the new KIPA president, since most of them expected that MS was behind this move, and the government will become more and more MS friendly. (Actually I expected this to happen, too.)

Some more google search showed that before working for Microsoft, he also worked for Sun Microsystems Korea and IBM Korea. :)

No one's in trouble - business as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you think this is simply the standard way of negotiating with Microsoft these days? Announce that you like Linux and they cut you big discounts. Certainly if I were about to place a big order with Microsoft, I'd make sure I let them know I had an alternative.

Re:No one's in trouble - business as usual

[robertjw]

Don't you think this is simply the standard way of negotiating with Microsoft these days?

Maybe, but that negotiating tactic doesn't work if you aren't willing to back it up. If Microsoft didn't think you were willing to go with that alternative, at some level, they wouldn't beother giving discounts.

Re:No one's in trouble - business as usual

[chris_mahan]

Naw man, if you've been dating this girl a while and she lets you bang her once in a while, and you meet this other chick who's a freak in bed and wants to do everything and then some on a daily basis, and you tell your girlfriend (mistake number one) and she puts out a little more for a couple of days hoping to keep you (your money) around a bit longer, and you fall for it (mistake number two) and pass on freak-in-bed's offer of wild, off-the-chart mind-blowing sex; you cannot later complain that your partner's performance, is, hum, adequate at best.

Same thing with Microsoft. You either put up with their little tantrums, or you just dump them and go on, but you do not play little mind games.

There is hope!

[Walkiry]

High Linux userbase in South Korea woud mean more games ported to Linux. It's the only thing that keeps windows in my machine.

I want to be freeee!

Re:There is hope!

[TeknoHog]

more games ported to Linux. It's the only thing that keeps windows in my machine.

I want to be freeee!

Nobody is forcing you to use Windows. You can be MS-free right now, if you want.

If you like a game that's only available to Windows, you basically have two choices:

• Harass the makers to release a Linux (or OSX, or whatever) version. If enough people do this, they will release it.
• If the makers insist on Windows-only releases, why would you want to deal with them in the first place? It means they're in bed with MS.

Re:There is hope!

[drspliff]

If the makers insist on Windows-only releases, why would you want to deal with them in the first place? It means they're in bed with MS.

No, it's just because producing a multi-platform game usually increases development time and testing time by at minimum 1.5x.

The problem is that if you spent another 6 months on a project, the result of that additional 6 months of work isn't always justified by the increased number of sales or larger userbase.

This is true in almost all areas of multi-platform software development, so your assuption that companies who only release for the Windows platform are in bed with Microsoft is wrong. (Unless it's Valve or Gearbox your talking about..)

Re:There is hope!

[ari_j]

If the makers insist on Windows-only releases, why would you want to deal with them in the first place? It means they're in bed with MS.

Although this inference isn't entirely reasonable, I think it'd be better to prove my point by analogy: "If a programmar insists on Linux-only releases, it means he's in bed with Linus."

Re:There is hope!

[DrMrLordX]

People will happily deal with Windows-only developers if they produce quality games. What more reason do they need than that?

Re:There is hope!

[NineNine]

If the makers insist on Windows-only releases, why would you want to deal with them in the first place? It means they're in bed with MS.

Ahh, /. is full of financial wizards today! Of course they are! Why would a company develop software for 99% of a market, when instead they could be writing software for a whopping 1% of the market?? It's a consiracy!!

Troll.

Re:There is hope!

[Anonymous Coward]

What games do you play?
I tested 100 games over the past few days and about 30% run under WINE(slightly better than the number that run under WineX/Cedega).
There's also a fair range of games that are native linux.

Using Wine doesn't stop developers porting games, and it allows a lot more people to make the switch.
If your using WINE to play a game make sure you write that your using Linux on the registration card.

Re:There is hope!

[mysticwhiskey]

If you ever find yourself in bed with MS, be sure you remembered to bring your own lube.

Re:There is hope!

[Anonymous Coward]

If the makers insist on Windows-only releases, why would you want to deal with them in the first place?

Maybe you want to play their games?

It means they're in bed with MS.

No, it means their profit margins are slim enough that they can't afford to throw money down the drain releasing a Linux port that nobody wants.

Seriously. Linux gaming was tried - by Loki - and it failed, because nobody wanted to buy Linux games. And even if a company did release a Linux version of their game, who would thank them? Slashdot would be as full of whining as ever, it's just that the whining would be along the lines of "Games want to be free! I want the source code!" and "It doesn't work on my PPC Linux, why is it only x86?!" and "I prefer Tux Racer, why did they port this Half-Life shit anyway" and so on.

Re:There is hope!

[TeknoHog]

"If a programmar insists on Linux-only releases, it means he's in bed with Linus."

Possibly... but Linux programmers would probably use some kinds of standard, which would be portable across many more platforms.

Re:There is hope!

[TeknoHog]

Why would a company develop software for 99% of a market, when instead they could be writing software for a whopping 1% of the market?? It's a consiracy!!

My post may not have been quite clear, but my point remains that nobody is forcing people to use Windows.

If a software company is developing for Windows only, it means some level of commitment/connection to Microsoft. They are supporting Windows at the expense of other platforms. I can choose not to support that company, because I don't want any connection with them either.

My point is not about the market forces, it's about supporting the spirit of freedom and Right Things.

Re:There is hope!

[DogDude]

You go right ahead and not support companies that make Windows only software. You'll be stuck with crappy open source knock-offs. Your loss. I doubt that the loss of your business keeps Bill Gates up at night.

Re:There is hope!

[VanillaCoke420]

You cannot possibly be serious. Don't you think they are developing software to reach as many users as possible?

Re:There is hope!

[Short Circuit]

I only expect to do Linux-only releases because I only run Linux, and I haven't yet gone looking for a Windows Perl developer who likes D&D. :)

Re:There is hope!

[Anonymous Coward]

Freedom and Right Things? You've got to be joking.

You are naive to think that a company that develops for Windows only is commited to Microsoft. They're motive is profit, and right now there is no profit in the Linux gaming platform.

I understand why you think the way you do, but the fact is that if you want to play games your best platform is Windows at the moment.

Re:There is hope!

[Anonymous Coward]

Harass the makers to release a Linux (or OSX, or whatever) version. If enough people do this, they will release it.

Good idea. This game claims that it's been produced by Microsoft. Where can I send email to Microsoft and ask them to release a Linux-version?

Re:There is hope!

[Anonymous Coward]

Good. More country that uses the software the better for everyone. Less censorship. Dont post in dslreport.com

Interesting.

[millisa]

That's definitely interesting. Didn't notice the netblock was there. Did some other quick searching to see if there was any other 'official' sites and a few pop up . . none of them from sources I would trust as being in the know of which one is 'official' if there is one . . .

The other one I'm seeing linked to a lot and sometimes referred to as the 'other official' site is This one. But again, it's a plus if it really is 'official' since it's an Apache 2.0 box on SuSE...

Re:Damn communists!

[Anonymous Coward]

No communism is the utopian society where no state or opression exists of anyone - society of ultimate freedom - wich some people think can be reached by the dictatorship of the proletariat (russia, NK, etc). But others believe in other ways to reach the communist world through a evolutionary process. There has not yet been any country/society that has been communist. All examples many people have (north korea, soviet russia, china, cuba, etc) are in fact not communist only totalitarian states with "goals" to reach the utopian communist society - however, this "goal" is more or less just a smokescreen to make the people happy.

Soo, free software is pretty much like the communist society where everyone just lives in harmony with eachother - "to each according to need, from each according to ability" - just as OSS. However, free software is nothing like totalitarian dictatoriships, of course, which in turn has nothing to do with a communist society.

Free Software in Korea

[Anonymous Coward]

All the links in these used to work.

Free Software in Korea: Part One -- The Microsoft Connection
<URL:http://linuxtoday.com/developer/1 999100400105 NWLF/>

Free Software in Korea: Part Two -- The Linux Side
<URL:http://linuxtoday.com/developer/1999101 000105 NWLF/>

Last bastion of civilisation

[Silver Sloth]

I'm not sure that South Korea is a member of the Axis of Evil. Aren't they our bold friends holding back the commie menace?

Re:But...

[Anonymous Coward]

you idiot.

Re:But...

[dallaylaen]

being backed by a terrorist nation

Dynamite can be used by terrorists, that doesn't tarnish the Noble prize.

Guns can be used by terrorists, but the armies don't throw them away or destroy them!

Hell, someone could take a sledgehammer and break down his neighbour's door. That would not put the blame on sledgehammers.

Please mod parent:

[Anonymous Coward]

* Troll
* Uninformed
* Geographically challenged
* Victim of the US education system

Thanks.

Not a tactical move

[kjoonlee]

Mod parent down, -1 cynicism.

http://www.software.or.kr/ will be taking requests for funding. Software.or.kr is the place that's sponsoring the KLDP CodeFests (all night FOSS hacking parties) in Korea.

http://wiki.kldp.org/wiki.php/CodeFest

Re:Damn communists!

[the_womble]

Aren't the North Koreans the evil communists? Isn't South Korea home to the free market

Exactly, so:

• The North Koreans would be happier with something centrally planned and tightly controlled.
• The South Koreans would see the benefits of consumer choice and appreciate the economic efficiency that results from pricing set by a competitive (i.e. non-monopoly) market

Incidentally given that the North Koreans have heavily into personality cults, claiming credit for everything, and heavy propaganda they would be a good fit for MS.

Good propaganda. Not.

[torpor]

You can see the photoshop, for cryin' out loud.

Stupid cheesy American agitprop. Lose!

Wow...

[bmo]

All those infringers of SCO intellectual property...

At $699 per cpu license, Darl McBride must be hopping with joy at the thought of all those Koreans buying SCO IP licenses. Yes indeed, you too can get one of these protection licenses. All you have to do is read the SCO IP website!

wget -v --mirror www.sco.com/scoip/

Be sure to download all available information so you can be an informed SCO IP Protection license customer! It would be a shame if you didn't!

Remember, the command again is wget -v --mirror www.sco.com/scoip/

Get your documentation and license Today!

--
BMO

"Contracts are what we use against customers" -Darl McBride

N Korea

[davidmcg]

Wonder if we'll see North Korea following on... Can't see North Korea paying outlandish licence fees to Microsoft :)

Re:N Korea

[HiThere]

How many computers would we be talking about? For one or two computers the initial cost isn't THAT horrific. Not for a country, even a poor one.

Microsoft Anti-piracy move

[draxredd]

Microsoft has finally come up with a plan to supress Windows piracy in the south-east : Widescale Linux Adoption.

;)

Re:Good propaganda. Not.

[DenDave]

; -- societies can forever be divided by their secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets.

Uh huh... and you think the North's black-out is propaganda... It's actually against the law in DPRK to have lights on after dark because the country considers itself at war and still maintains blackout..
And of course "Juche" shows how to enlighten and free the people....

+1 Patriotic American

[Anonymous Coward]

Not knowing much about foreign cultures or even Geography itself is the ultimate sacrifice to make for one's country.

Assuming you're fat as well as stupid. Otherwise, joining the army is a just as good, although soldiers who've served abroad might actually learn something about how fucked up the US is, and then return, and try to do something about it. Too risky.

Better to just keep eating cheeseburgers, watching Fox, and voting Republican.

Re:+1 Patriotic American

[Anonymous Coward]

The really, really disturbing thing is that you were modded troll while the real troll wasn't. Weird. Why would a slashdot moderator do such an error? They are usually completely right most of the times. :-D

Re:Good propaganda. Not.

[torpor]

Uh huh... and you think the North's black-out is propaganda... It's actually against the law in DPRK to have lights on after dark because the country considers itself at war and still maintains blackout..


And you know all this how? Your own media. Yup, go on trusting that faithfully, consumerican!

Get some good ol' "Madison Avenue" Juche for you, why don't you!

Nobel

[commodoresloat]

Dynamite can be used by terrorists, that doesn't tarnish the Noble prize.

Actually, the Nobel prize was Alfred Nobel's attempt to make up for his regret about the fact that dynamite was used by terrorists and governments in war. Dynamite had plenty of legitimate uses in construction but he was uncomfortable with the uses of it for violence, and gave the fortune that he made in dynamite to the fund for the Nobel prize. So while dynamite doesn't tarnish the Nobel prize, its use by terrorists actually did tarnish Nobel himself (at least in his own mind), and the Nobel prize was sort of a way of redeeming him.

Re:Nobel

[Anonymous Coward]

It was very noble of Nobel.

Re:Nobel

[Anonymous Coward]

... he wanted to use it only for fishing...

Re:Nobel

[burndive]

That must be why he became an arms dealer.

Actually

[DarKry]

This is an excellent point. I do IT for a company in Ukraine and our problem right now is that this country is starting to come around into the 21st century. Up till now it has always been that piracy is the norm (even for big companies). Everyone here uses windows, all our servers are windows, but I am not sure that the company actually owns a single Windows license. They hired me to try and switch EVERYTHING to linux. We are doing client machines first because thats where the huge costs come in. If they were to actually pay for all the software we are using right now it would bust the company (we are talking more spent on software than on employee salaries). So legitimacy is great and all but its a pain in the ass to switch to legitimacy after the fact. South Korea is probably in the same position, The US is riding them to get legit but the fact of the matter is no one can afford Microsoft's ridiculous costs. Sure its great for US businesses where there are millions just sitting around but in countries where the average person make $400 a year its just not feasable. Bah I will stop ranting and get back to this Gentoo install.

Re:Actually

[ajs318]

Exactly. For many people, the only way of getting legal {if unauthorised copying of software actually is illegal in those countries ..... did anyone bother to check?} is to switch to Open Source. Microsoft aren't going to like it, but them's the breaks.

Re:Actually

[deathguppie]

You sir, are my hero!!

Re:Actually

[Anonymous Coward]

This is an excellent point. I do IT for a company in Ukraine and our problem right now is that this country is starting to come around into the 21st century. Up till now it has always been that piracy is the norm (even for big companies).

This was exactly our experience in Ukraine. In fact, we couldn't FIND legal copies of MS products. Really, when your opthamologists make less in a month than we do in a couple days, is it any surprise? And the Germans were selling eyeglasses for $200 a pop. Ha!

Re:Actually

[DrNibbler]

Bah I will stop ranting and get back to this Gentoo install.

hmm gentoo on desktops... getting paid by the hour, eh?

Re:Actually

[DarKry]

This one is going to be the Intranet server :)

Re:Actually

[DarKry]

Thats the reality of the country... Its insane to see a street full of western european shops selling clothes for $100 a shirt in a country where most (or I should say lucky) people make that in a month. The shops are of course empty and the effect is that everyone buys from them but only owns 1 shirt. Personally I can't see spending a months salary on a single article of clothing but apparently thats the norm here.

Re:Actually

[HiThere]

Not that bad an idea...if you have a lot of the same model of machine. Install once and mirror the binaries/configs. (Not quite sure how one would do that on Gentoo, but I'm rather certain it's possible. Probably nothing more required than copying a few directory trees.)

Given that South Korea is one of the most

[MerlinTheWizard]

technologically-active and innovative country in today's world, that should say something... and give hope to all of us who think OSS in general is closely linked to technological innovation, freedom and actually more commercial activity overall.

Re:Damn communists!

[Anonymous Coward]

Incidentally given that the North Koreans have heavily into personality cults, claiming credit for everything, and heavy propaganda they would be a good fit for MS.

<irony> Yeah, unlike those demigods Linus Torvals and Eric S. Raymond who single-handedly wrote all that code that got stolen and put into MS Windows with its 10,000 security holes! </irony>

Axis of Evil

[Frankie70]

Is this because Asia wants to try Linux and thinks it's the best, or is it because of the anti American (And Microsoft is very American) feelings?


South Korea is different from North Korea

A bit of perspective please

[Ricardo]

Just so you guys know, South Korea is internet/computer CRAZY! - they love it!. The covereage of broadband there is one of the best in the world. It is the only country to have 2 (yes 2) internet game tv shows - ie where they actually show games happening, and not just review lame games for advertising $$$.
This is the reflection of a popular culture that has made the population know whats what, and government reacting in a wise and well informed (and not comercially brow beaten) way.

Also Although South Korea SOUNDS alot like North Korea, can we get over it please?. This is a bit like comparing Alaska with Russia (because they are duhhh close-ish - I think). There is often similar problems discerning Ireland from Northern Island - the first is a country, the second is a region of Britain.

Re:A bit of perspective please

[Anonymous Coward]

Northern Island - the first is a country, the second is a region of Britain

It's spelt Northern Ireland.

Re:Damn communists!

[inmate]

and a variation on that theme is:

the difference between a democracy and a peoples democracy, is that same as the difference between a jacket and a strait-jacket

dollar goes further in Korea

[Anonymous Coward]

3 million US would go a lot further in Korea. 30,000 is a decent salary here, so you could envision an investment that created 100 jobs... Given no/minimal software costs, and possibly no need for new hardware, considering what Linux can do with old hw...

For the average Korean...

[alwsn]

I've been teaching in Korea for two years so far and the average Korean could not use Linux productively. The reason being is that almost every web site requires ActiveX to do anything; logon, make purchases, check email. Even on the sites not requiring ActiveX, they look like garbage on anything but IE. One plus is that MS office is not nearly as intrenched as it is in the States with many Koreans preferring a Korea Office suite (I cannot remember the name as I do not use it myself.) And, of course, you cannot play Kart Rider on linux.

Re:For the average Korean...

[randalx]

This might be the first step in forcing those websites to drop ActiveX controls and make their sites work well in standards compliant browsers.

Re:For the average Korean...

[Anonymous Coward]

I know what you mean. I tried to switch my home machine completely over to Linux about a year ago. I got everything working fine except for Korean webpages. Since my wife is Korean, she really needed those to work. It wasn't even just ActiveX, the pages were full of non-standard CCS and java-script stuff. I was pretty pissed that I wasn't able to switch for want of standard webpages.

I think the Office suite you're thinking of is Hangul (95/97/...). I don't know if there's a linux version of it available, but I'm sure one will appear if a market does.

Anyway, I was pretty happy to hear this news, because maybe those webpages will get fixed and I can stop dual booting.

Re:For the average Korean...

[Anonymous Coward]

They do have linux version of Hangul office.
I think it was the most complete version of office in the linux world before open office.
International languague support is superb in Hangul.

Re:For the average Korean...

[kertong]

alwsn,

on a side note, how are you enjoying teaching in korea? I was a korean native until 1986 (came over here when I was 6).

I've always wanted to go back to korea for an year or two to make a living there, but decided I had to work in the tech sector. Now that the S. Korean government is switching to linux, do you think many linux admin jobs will open? Tempting...

One other "barrier to entry" for this linux switch, is that starcraft and gunbound don't natively run on linux :)

Oil - fall of the dollar, rise of the Euro

[Anonymous Coward]

Countries are preparing for the rise of the Iranian Euro based oil exchange. This will destroy the US dollar as the reserve currency of the world - a very cunning move by Iran, and seen by some as provocation for a US invasion. Iraq switched to selling oil in US dollars less than a year before it was invaded by the US. Now Iraqi oil is once again sold in US$.

What an interesting world we live in.

Re:But...

[DrMrLordX]

That's the best post I've seen in a long time. A winnar is you! You technical monkey.

In related news from North Korea...

[Alsee]

The People's Democratic Republic of Korea now advocates the Open Freedom Microsoft operating system.

-

Can't Help It

[kokoloko]

So does this mean that now only old people will be using Windows?

Re:Can't Help It

[Sandlin]

Only old people using M$ mess? I am one of those "old" (it's all in your mind) people, and i was a Windozzzz user until I wised up and got Linux. Considering human nature is the same everywhere, I am assuming that the South Korean oldsters will also switch.
And, as technologically advanced as the South Koreans are, they will develop a Linux distro that is point-and-click easy.
(Just having fun with you!)

Re:Damn communists!

[Anonymous Coward]

A quick tip for everyone. If a country has "Democratic" or "people's Republic" in their name, they are anything but democratic or a republic.

You can't have your version of communism

[budword]

All communists must be murderers and thieves by definition. They have to seize the resources of society, owned by others. They have to steal, and when the people they are stealing from take action to protect their interests, the communists must kill them or exile them. You can't have communism without murder and theft. Have a blast in any society kicked started by men brutal enough to murder enough people to scare the rest into not defending their property when it is out and out stolen from them, under threat of death. That defines every version of communism. Wake up. Marx had to pawn his shoes on a regular basis. Simply taking the resources of others and having the state support you must have looked like a pretty good deal to a guy who couldn't afford to hold on to his own shoes for long.

Re:You can't have your version of communism

[Gnu IS Unix]

The capitalists are the thiefs, communism brings back what capitalists have stolen to the proletariat. What do you mean with "take action"? If the capitalists use violence against the state, then the state will use the minimum amount of violence to overtake the capitalists resources, if it can't be done peacefully and then start a trial against them for using violence (or murder or whatever they've done). I don't support any of the "communist" states that have existed until now, because they haven't tried the right way, they were more fascists than communists. However, I do believe in communism (and not marxism-leninism).

Re:You can't have your version of communism

[budword]

So you believe that everyone who lives in a state that isn't communist is just going to spontaneously give up everything they own ? Of their own free will ? At the same time ? To the state ? To begin a communist state ? There is a reason every communist state so far has been totalitarian. The have to seize power with bloody hands. There simply is no other way to do it. You can say "the proletariat really owns everything" so you are not stealing anything. At that point you are no different than Stalin. Don't you believe in individual rights ? Or only group rights ? "of the proletariat" ? You can't seize the property of all of society without doing violence to the people (individuals ) who own the property you are taking from them. There is a reason every communist state has been totalitarian. They have to be, or they couldn't be communist. Figure it out. Stalin and Lenin depend on people like you. You are naive, and unwilling to think.

Nevermind...

[JayJay.br]

...only old people will use Linux anyway.

In other news, distros will be forced to use KDE. Either that, or they will change the country name to South Gorea.

/me hides in shame for excessive Slashdot cliche use.

Re:Nevermind...

[Anonymous Coward]

1) Crap post
2) Make fun of yourself
3) ...
4) Profit!

A bit of geography

[GWTPict]

The UK's full title,

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

So Northern Ireland is part of the UK, not a region of Britain. It is of course very close to Ireland, consisting as it does of 6 of the 9 counties of the historic north eastern Irish province of Ulster.

Too expensive

[slashusrslashbin]

Maybe Microsoft could offer some kind of discount?

I mean that's never happened before...

Re:Damn communists!

[Anonymous Coward]

sorry you lost your job at assfuck software conglomerate pty.ltd. but could you take your little open software vendetta somewhere else? you know, anywhere other than the open software forums you corporate shill. (/reactive idiot)

This is good...

[Anonymous Coward]

because Korean chicks are hot!

Re:Damn communists!

[Eternally optimistic]

Every country that has attempted communism has ended up, very quickly, with a totalitarian society. No thank you.

Cheer up, Microsoft!

[macdaddy357]

When South Korea does something, North Korea usually does the opposite. Since South Korea is going with Linux, maybe Kin Jung Il will go with Windows for North Korea.

Re:Cheer up, Microsoft!

[kanweg]

No, to retaliate they'll probably choose Gentoo. Bert

Re:Cheer up, Microsoft!

[Dorsai65]

Considering the poverty of N. Korea, I don't think 3 WinXP purchases is going to help MS all that much...

Re:Cheer up, Microsoft!

[Anonymous Coward]

you think they will use Windows ME for controlling their nuclear reactors? muhahahaha muhahaha

What was it?

[DarkOx]

In Korea only old people use Microsoft?

nul

[scovetta]

I think you forgot to pipe that stuff to /dev/nul, and repeat the fetch indefinately...

Re:Damn communists!

[B2382F29]

And other countries that attempted democracy are ending up, very quickly, with a totalitarian society. So what's your point?

Re:Damn communists!

[Anonymous Coward]

His point is that *every* country that tried communism quickly become communist. Not some, or most, but every stinking one of them. Communism and human nature don't work well together, and you'd have to be an idiot to think otherwise.

Re:Damn communists!

[Anonymous Coward]

country that has attempted communism

That's just it. Those countries aren't communist by definition. Marx himself believed that communism was the natural result of increase in productivity. Most of the so-called "communist" nations have tried to instate communist equality without the prerequisite productivity to do so.

Marx believed the industrial revolution would bring about worldwide communism because there would be nothing more people (individuals) could do to increase productivity or the quality or amount of goods created. At that point, he theorized, capital would be the source of all wealth and we would either have to split up the capital fairly or kill each other over it. In a way, he was right. People are generally worthless in the creation of many goods today. Most western societies could live quite comfortably without anyone doing more than an hour a day of actual work.

Progressive socialist movements all across Europe ended up making many concessions from capitalism and the free market and towards communism. Many wholly "communist" philosophers such as Trotsky and Lenin broke with the movements in their own countries because they turned out to be "smoke screens" for increased government control and furtherance of inequality. These countries essentially destroyed their economies by assuming that the product of individual effort would go towards the collective, essentially disincentivising any work at all and completely ignoring Marx's well thought-out economic basis of communism.

Countries that have stuck with capitalism and free markets make a different set of assumptions. The US assumes that "full employment" is the holy grail of economic policy. Everyone must be working, as much as possible. That will make us happy and wealthy. What have we ended up with? Anti-discrimination laws, fights over unemployment and health benefits, lots of effort essentially wasted making workplaces accessible to the handicapped, who contribute very little to overall productivity, and lots of people getting paid to sit around getting fat and playing on the internet all day.

Health costs have skyrocketed. Instead of designing machines to do the last 10% of every job, people get to assemble stamped parts into a final product. People are dying or having major surgeries essentially due to obesity, stress, and repetitive strain injuries. The first jobs to be automated are the highest paying ones, jobs involving thought or skill instead of dumb repetitive motion.

Why do we do this? There are certain fixed costs involved in living. You have to have insurance and a car in order to get to work. You have to work to eat. You have no choice but to go to work all day, every day, making crap that's designed to break or sitting in a chair doing something that a computer could easily be doing, and sacrifice your health and happiness in exchange for your ration of oil and food and other products of the land your fathers fought to free from opression. Who lives in totalitarianism again?

The real reason...

[MayorDefacto]

Obviously, the real reason why the S. Korean government is advocating Linux for governmental and public sector use is to keep those bureaucrats from playing Starcraft all day long on their Windows boxen...

I think they mean North Korea

[soft_guy]

Isn't North Korea the communist Korea? Wouldn't they be the ones using Linux then, since Linux is the Official OS of communism?

Or is it only old people in south Korea who are using Linux?

it is to laugh

[Anonymous Coward]

they have done nothing but encourage Linux growth with their strong apathy towards the end user

Oooookay, we all know what big advocates of the end user Linux is. Such an elegant interface! Such an easy install! So many stable programs!

Re:it is to laugh

[HiThere]

In case you aren't a troll:

How long has it been since you've looked at one of the distributions targeted at the new user?

It's true that some of the programs are different...and that I wouldn't currently recommend KWord. (It's been over a year since I've checked them out though.)

It's also true that the systems most targeted to new-users have MSWind mimic interfaces. Xandros and Lindows come to mind. And both have per seat licensing charges.

(Actually, it's also true that I'm going by what the salesmen say. Not a good policy. But I'm sticking with Debian...until I try something else again.)

So I don't REALLY know that the novice user distributions are easy. I just know that Debian is. And that it has lots of good packages that do what I need (as well as some that don't).

If you don't like KDE, try Gnome. If you don't like either, pick a different interface. FVWM or something. But don't think of it that way, just pick the distribution that looks right. Lycoris, perhaps.

Well... atleast...

[Anonymous Coward]

North Korea isn't advocating it. It'd lead to a boycott of Linux based on their terrorist relationships.

Re:Good propaganda. Not.

[DenDave]

ROFL!
I'll concede that my info is second hand but it comes from someone who claims to have worked in DPRK. Of course they could be secret agents in the employ of Dr. Evil but I'll bet not.
as for me being a consumerican, not me, I ain't no seppo.

Re:Good propaganda. Not.

[Anonymous Coward]

and you are the next guest on the show!!