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Laser Warnings Planned for Out-of-Bounds Pilots
akadruid writes "No, it's not a new 'Star Wars' system: The US Pentagon and NORAD are using lasers to warn off pilots flying into restricted airspace, according to Wired magazine. I wonder if they got the idea from the FBI, who charged a New Jersey man under anti-terror laws for doing this?" The system is not yet in operation (but could be as soon as next month), and according to NORAD, their system has been found safe for pilots' eyes.
...RTFA.
Yes, it's ironic and ha-ha funny and all considering the instances of lasers being shined into cockpits as pranks.
But:
The North American Aerospace Defense Command, or NORAD, said its laser warning system will start in 30 to 45 days. The low-intensity lights are less powerful than the ones that prompted warnings, and tests have shown they are safe for the eyes, according to NORAD.
NORAD spokesman Michael Kucharek said the laser-based warning system someday could replace fighter jets as a way to warn pilots to stay away from the Capitol and the White House.
Hundreds of small private planes [i.e., not commercial jetliners] have strayed into the restricted airspace in Washington, a 15.75-mile radius around the Washington Monument.
In some cases, NORAD has had to divert or scramble fighter jets to escort them away from the area at a cost of $30,000 to $50,000 each time, Kucharek said.
The challenge for NORAD will be to educate pilots that the red-red-green flashing laser beams mean they're flying in restricted airspace.
Isn't looking for a new or novel notification system for myriad planes that may not be able to immediately contacted via radio or identified by radar or other means a good thing? And one that mitigates the need to divert or scramble fighters at great costs?
And yes, I suppose someone could build a system to emulate the NORAD system as a joke/hoax/prank/whatever, as no doubt dozens of drooling slashdotters are anxious to post to echo Timothy, but then, it would be:
- First of all, very unlikely to be encountered, statistically, and when it did happen, it would be:
- Not anywhere near restricted airspace, meaning it would be recognized as a prank to be ignored
- In the case of much of DC around the capitol, in restricted airspace anyway, and therefore moot
- Likely that instances that would cause significant confusion and/or be mistaken for a legitimate NORAD warning would be about as prevalent as current laser pranks. That is to say, not prevalent at all, compared with the total number of flights.
So in sum, this is a very good idea and not at all surprising.
Further the fact that a man has been (rightfully) charged with a crime for shining a fucking laser at a plane like a dumbass has absolutely nothing to do with a safe, non-obtrusive, well-designed warning system that coincidentally also uses lasers because of their utility that is only invoked if a pilot strays into restricted airspace in the first place, which are likely to be small, private planes, as indicated in the article, and NOT commercial carriers with experienced pilots who know, and have the tools, to stay out of restricted airspace.
What happens when the guy who's supposed to be monitoring the airspace gets bored?
My other Sig is
Good "test" of how effective lasers were to blind pilots is at Equipped.com.
(First post!!!)
They probably send out F-16s to do that.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
See http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2005/050408 laser.html
for more information.
My Eyes!
Really, with a high powered telescope, I don't think it would be too much of a problem in many cases, and I'm sure that the warning system has a sophisticated tracking system, although I think it would be considerably more difficult for the idiots shining lasers into cockpits for the hell of it. The F-16 theory actually is plausible too- it would probably be considerably easier to shine a laser into an airplane's cockpit from another airplane.
By that I mean, why just flash red-red-green. They could also indicate the best direction to turn to get out of the airspace as quickly as possible:
Red-red-green means turn right. Red-green means turn left. Red-red means stay straight. Green-green (for a few seconds) means you are now clear of the airspace.
the Dunedan
It's amazing how the pilots can look out the window and see the ground. Wonder how that works?
If a pilot is lost or confused, blinding him with a bright light is going to help him a lot.
The signal to the pilot will be:
"Please fly what's left of your plane out of the restric... oh.... never mind."
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
Sharks wanted for air traffic control duties. No previous aviation knowledge required but any laser-wearing experience would be advantageous.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
So, now the terrorists can shine lasers (less-powerful ones) at planes if they want the pilot to take a different route.
The majority of air traffic in the no-fly zone in D.C. is generally low. You have Dulles, BWI, Reagen, military, etc. Visit the Lincoln Memorial to see what I mean. Traffic to Dulles is extremely high.
I'm a virgo and on Slashdot. Coincidence? Yes.
This came up in some of the other articles.
"OMG, how could you shine a laser from the ground when the windows are on the *top of the plane*?!?!??!!11111one"
Um. I hope you can realized that pilots still have a line of sight to the ground for great distances around them, and only can't see the ground directly underneath/behind them for a comparatively small area.
The warnings would have a good chance of being initiated from an area for which the pilot has direct line of sight, or at least can diverge enough to get to the windshield or some other surface on the plane and be instantly noticed by the pilot.
pretty soon when an airplane gets close to a restricted zone, it'll slowly navigate away from it. the closer you get to the zone, the more it turns away, so by the time you're about to hit the zone, you're flying alongside it or away from it. and this auto-pilot system will be mandatory to all commercial jets.
HD Trailers
...and I've no idea what they plan to do with these lasers. I'm thinking that maybe they're small laser pointers and they're going to throw them at the planes in the hope that the noise they make will attract the attention of the pilot. Or maybe they'll render the words 'Wrong Way' using vector graphics on a convenient nearby cloud. Or maybe they'll stimulate the brain cells of the pilot and steer the plane by remote control. One possibility is shining the beam into the pilot's eyes to get his or her attention, but I'm embarassed to suggest that because it sounds a bit stupid.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
"Minime! Stop humping the DC-10!!!
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
"We hope that you do take caution as you fly out of restricated airspace with your remaining eye"
I said across her nose, not up it!!!
Pvt. Asshole: I'm sorry sir, I'm doing my best
This to me sounds like an invisible fence for pilots, which isn't such a bad idea. This to me sounds like a novel way of dealing with malfunctions when other forms of communication are not available. I worry, though, that this kind of technology might be overused though, like let's have lasers advertisements or laser boundaries marking points of interest outside of a plane for passengers. I guess I wonder since visual distractions will only increase, whether this is just a stop gap measure into they can come up with a less potentially temporarily solution. There is so much light stimulus out there anyway, I wonder if there isn't another, less potentially universal way of creating a modern day lighthouse. Like a directed sonic screeching noise that would reverberate in the cockpit, a bit like those grooves on the side of the road when you are nodding off on a turnpike.
USA Today
"The North American Aerospace Defense Command, or NORAD, has been researching the use of alternating red and green lasers as a way to communicate with pilots flying too near the Capitol or the White House when they can't be reached by radio."
it make more sense to actually send a message to the pilots? I don't think that having a red/green laser beamed at them would be very smart(what would prevent a prankster from doing it?) and i don't think that as a pilot having a laster beamed at you is the most comfortable thing - panic?
and is it just a coincidence that they come up with this idea after they lockup a guy for beaming a laser at a plane?
Midichlorians.
And when that fails, do you want to shoot them down or give them a little blinky light?
'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
We allow laser enforcement of air traffic laws. Pretty soon, this includes the use of laser swords. The governments contract out to the Joint European Defense Institute to do the enforcing. Pretty soon, these laser-sword weilding do-gooders in their cool-looking robes start meddling in everyone's affairs, not just airplanes.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
The FBI have charged NORAD under anti-terror laws for pointing lasers at aircrafts.
"Ok, now I'm going to shine a big frickin laser directly into your dome, please try to relax. Greeeaaat.. so, are you feeling blind? No? That's truly excellent. Ok, now I'm going to shine a slightly bigger frickin laser directly into your dome..."
And if the plane decides not to comply, the laser can be used to guide smart bombs :-D
Cheers,
Adolfo
What happens when the guy who's supposed to be monitoring the airspace gets bored?
I guess the laser would be under automatic control and would be directed by an antiaircraft tracking and targetting system, so it would be best to take it seriously, since an armed battery might not be far away, especially if the guy manning it was bored before something to shoot at turned up.I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
I first thought it said that they were doing to use Rodan (instead of Norad) to stop out-of-bounds planes. Come to think of it, the Rodan solution might be more effective.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
10 bucks says SCO files a patent for the process of warning a user using the red-red-green flash.
It would be hard to show previous use artwork.....and could be a ready cash cow.
They should get one of these gadgets. I hear they're becoming pretty popular. It's even USB!
"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
/)
Really difficult indeed if the plane has no radio onboard, or if the radios aren't working.
Why yes, I *am* a CFI.
p
In Korea, long hair is for old people!
What I want to know is whether it's legal to fire back? You know, self-defense and all. :)
5 years ago, it would've been. In our post 9/11 era, it's probably a terrorist act.
The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
I'm surprised no one mentioned it here yet ...
Many of the laser sightings last year appear to have been part of U.S. government tests of the system...
And anyone who doubts that, just search news archives of late last year - the U.S. govt publically acknowledged doing tests around the same time/areas of the "mysterious" laser sightings.
Ron Bennett
Since existing laws and regulations appear to have been ineffective, more laws seem unlikely to reduce the problem, so the best recommendations would appear to make it part of the standard training of pilots on how to handle the incidents (if that is not already the case). All in my humble opinion, of course.
Of course, the first crispy airplane that didn't know because of fog, etc... might put a dent in the plan.
--Mike--
It just says that the light wouldn't be as intense as in the cases where people have gotten in trouble with their laser pointers.
That seems a little hard to believe at first, since a green laser pointer's power is only something in the milliwatts, and the AOPA article mentioned in another reply (this is a fixed URL, incidentally) talks about a 1.5 watt laser. But that's reflected/diffused to create a 100-foot-wide line of light in a circle 10 miles from the laser, so I guess by sending the light off in all directions (not at all like your normal use of a laser) it's possible that it wouldn't be a problem.
Out here in Hawaii, the summit of Mauna Kea is an "informal" no-fly zone. There aren't any major flight paths that would cross it anyway, and since there are telescopes on it, folks have basically just agreed not to go flying over when we're trying to see things.
This has become a little more important in recent years, since the folks over at Keck use a laser to ionize stuff in the sodium layer of the atmosphere and create an artificial "guide star" that they can then measure the light from to correct for atmospheric interference. This is part of their adaptive optics, I think. That's a 15-watt laser, which could really ruin a pilot's day.
And Gemini North, across the summit from Keck, is about to start playing with a big bright toy too.
They've got a pool of "plane spotters" who spend half a night standing outside on the summit with a walkie-talkie. If they see any planes that look like they might get in the way, they radio in to turn off the laser before anything gets zapped.
I'm going to try to do that, one of these days. Goodness knows I'm up there enough as it is.
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your captin speaking, if you will look out the right side of the plane and the laser eye surgery will begin.
If Practice Makes Perfect, And No One is Perfect, Why Practice?
Flashing a laser at an airplane as a warning is next to useless.
Since a laserbeam remains a relatively focused beam as it travels through space, the laser beam has to be shone directly into the eyes of the pilot to be seen.
What would be more effective is a directional radio frequency transmitter that sends a special signal to a receiver on the airplane in question. It could sound an alarm in the cockpit which means 'get the fudge out of here'.
Maybe they could turn it into an elaborate security game where they shoot a rocket equivalent of a paintball at the airplane, and if it hits, they have to play dead.
Just use this:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/tracker.shtml
(Note: Product originally announced April 1st, 2005)
From my knowledge of this proposed system and my experience flying in the airspace around D.C. this is intendend for civil aviation aircraft...most of which do not fly at very high altitudes (generally below 18,000ft and most even lower than that).
The question about this proposed system that I have is this (having flown inside of the Washington D.C. ADIZ numerous times):
The airspaces are designated to keep potential trouble makers out of those areas. The point of scrambling the fighters to intercept a violator is to have eyes on and provide the option to take this aircraft out if it is determined to have hostile intentions. If there will no longer be any interceptors coming, any hostile aircraft can simply continue on its present course and the interceptors may not make it in time should they be sent later on. So what is the point of the laser system at all? If we must be so afraid to allow this airspace to be restricted shouldn't it warrant someone there actually guarding it with shoot down capabilities?
It is my understanding that this system is intended to drive down the costs of sending out the interceptor aircraft. If those costs are not worthy to protect whatever airspace is restricted, perhaps the danger is not that great and the airspace should be opened. I believe this proposed laser system will do nothing but cost money itself, irritate civil aviators, and provide a false security for protecting the restricted airspace (which is not clear if it should really be restricted in the first place if the costs of sending intercept aircraft are not worth the protection of this space). We seem to be left with a restricted airspace that is prohibited for vital national security reasons which is merely protected by a system that says 'don't go near there' 0r something to that affect.
Currently, if they ignore/can't respond to a radio warning, scramble the fighters.
The laser warning would add a visual warning step before scramble. If they ignore the radio AND ignore the laser, scramble the fighters.
Scrambling fighters just because some fool in his Cessna is offcourse with a broken radio is not too wise.
Isn't part of the idea behind scambling to warn them to get out - AND ALSO - if need be to actually escort them out, follow them, establish visual communication and identification.
I think that this is probably a worthwhile idea.
However, putting on the paranoid terrorism / security tin foil had Although isn't there also a part of the scramble jets which is the "just in case this is someone with a grudge to vent" won't this create a situation in which the fighters will now be scamble even later (eg, give the craft another 60 seconds to change course before scrambling), and also result in a situation where there will actually be less attention paid to the restricted areas?
If they were flying when there was sufficient visual obscuration to the point that a laser weren't visible, they had damn well better be on an IFR flight plan, at which point the responsibility for keeping them out of restricted airspace gets at least partially transferred to air traffic control.
p
In Korea, long hair is for old people!
I can see them combining this with the LED dance floor posted yesterday for some serious Plane Dancing!
Come to think of it, one of those dancers did kinda resemble a blimp...
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
"Hi, my name is Bill, and I'll be your captain today... We'll be having a smooth flight into--"
*BEEPBEEPBEEPBEEP*
"--ah, we may be experiencing some turbulence as NORAD has acquired laser-guided missile lock on the aircraft. Please note that the fasten-seatbelt sign is illuminated at this time..."
Assume I was drunk when I posted this.
Every time your Java program fires an ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException, you are shot at by a laser.
Wouldn't this greatly reduce programming errors?
Anti aircraft guns maybe? They'll turn any general aviation plane into confetti in a few seconds.
Is it any suprise that blue will be used by the pentagon, while it seems the axis of evil have secured red warning lazers that shoot out from both sides.
It is also notable that flying over sam jacksona house gets you grounded with a purplish blue... you know, the one says thats "bad motherfucker" on it.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
No karma for me, thanks. -MisterLawyer
There is restricted airspace everywhere, and usually a violation thereof means a serious consequence. My flight school had to modify all its flightplans into Medicine Hat, Alberta (I live in Calgary) because some genius forgot to check his chart for the military restricted zone. My point in this long rambling post is that, if you know there is restricted airspace nearby, try really really hard to stay the fuck away from it. If you don't know you're flying near restricted airspace, then you fucked up during the planning stage.
I think that the military probably has the patent on laser-guided bombs... so maybe they could introduce SCO to a couple of those....
I'd think a voice on the radio saying "turn around or we'll shoot you" would be fine.
Tracers from a nearby F-16 are probably equally as effective.
How can you know if you are flying in restricted airspace, when the Homeland Security has had the airspace restricted secretly... ie, it's a restricted area, but they won't tell you where it is for fear that terrorists might attack it...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
In other news, the coast guard trains sharks with frickin lasers on their heads to mark US controlled waters.
I'll just say a big "YES" to that last paragraph, and further advise pilots who might be reading this to, as AOPA says, "talk and squawk" as much as possible. Pick up VFR Flight Following if possible. And for the love of all things holy, take a free online airspace awareness course from the Air Safety Foundation.
Fly safe.
--a CFI
In Korea, long hair is for old people!
This I old an old idea. The British Navy fitted a laser dazzler system on some of there ship in the late 1980's to warn off aircraft, was a secret system until spotted by a spanish newspaper. Also the trick of using light to dazzle pilotsgoes back to the 1942 in North Africa , was used by the British foces to guard the Suez Canal. How this system worked is still a secret but there is one picture that showed some of the device.
Don't fly into restricted arispace with remaining eye.
Where's the Kaboom?
There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom.
Which one means to watch out for terrorists? I'm confused.
Terrorists: Please leave this airspace. We will continue to flash this light at you until you leave.
I really see this as being somewhat similar to outlawing guns: only the law abiding citizens won't have them. Likewise, the law abiding pilot will probably leave the airspace, but someone with more malicious intent, probably isn't going to be scared off.
Where is the freaking target? There at the lasershow I can't see anymore... (crashes into building) Hey, now they are not going to come after us with a jet as quickly, they'll just warn us! Homing device for the white house Now we can use laser-guided missiles to shoot them
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Q: Is this flight smoking or non-smoking?
A: Depends on how powerful their laser is.
Mr. T pitied this fool on 27 July 1992.
Further to the above info, there are a number of different types of airspace that you should stay away from.
In Australia, outside of the normal classes A-G of airspace we have Prohibited, Restricted and Danger areas.
Basically, Prohibited means stay away, we don't care who you are, go away! I think the last Prohibited area was around Woomera, but was downgraded to a Restricted area.
Restricted areas can be active 24 hours, or activated at various times. Most military flying bases will have associated restricted training areas. Weapon ranges and military exercise areas also tend to have restricted areas as well - notified by NOTAM. If the restricted area is not for you, or you do not have specific permission from those who created it, then stay away!
Danger areas are sections of airspace that you should be careful when flying through, due to things such as gliders, mining explosive blasts, remote control aircraft, etc. If you have no good reason to be there, then don't go there. There is nothing stopping you from being there, but you probably should avoid it if you can.
When flying near international borders, ADIZ (Air Defence Zones) boundaries can cause a problem, particularly if you will get shot down for accidentally intruding, and should be treated as Prohibited areas unless you have specific approval to be there.
InfoSec that matters, when it counts.
Terrorist are pulling their windshields to adjust their rearview mirrors
Um, wouldn't it be easier to fit pilots with electric-shock dog-collars and setup a few thousand miles of invisible fence?
But I'm a colorblind pilot, you insensitive clod!
[Of course it's client-server; it runs on a LAN]
Unfortunatley, the lasers you see are from the homing system of the missile they just launched.
they could just spend an extra coupla quid and put a shape cutout (like, of an arrow) over the laser, so it draws an arrow pointing which direction to go! My mate had all sorts of shapes he could project using his laser over a distance, smiley face (could mean "okay you're going the right way now"), a love heart, a cat, an erm... tin of beans...
-2A
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
I hope they have one over Area 51. Easy for me to get to in my 175.
Lasers will be shined into air-traffic-controllers eyes if planes they are partly responsible for enter into restricted airspace.
-2A
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
Just a few gotchas:
The diffused laser beams mentioned in the article would be as safe as a high powered lamp, such as those used by the tower to guide planes in for a landing when their radios have failed.
Since lasers are VERY monochromatic, and operate on a few specific wavelengths it would be possible to develop protective eyeware that would block the laser beams, but still allow normal vision. These would protect pilots from "terrorist" laser attacks.
I'm waiting for laser pointer pens to be outlawed because of the 'threat' to air travel.
Laser "warning?" I want more than a warning.
Laser Machine: Please correct your course. You are out of bounds.
Pilot: Screw you.
*BRZZAAAAAP*
Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain.
I guess it is a good thing that Al Queda gave up on renting trucks ever since U-Haul ripped them off for their deposit on the 1st WTC bombing. Otherwise they might load up a truck with more TNT than an airplane could ever carry and just DRIVE to DC!
What now!
Norad is pointing laser and blinding un-authorized plane?
How long till they blind a us air force pilot by mistake with a nuclear bomb attached to his plane,,,,that would be messy.
The Aircreft Owners and Pilots Association has an excellent Flash presentation on flight procedures in the Washington area, or "how not to get shot down".
I know a laser is supposed to maintain its intensity over a range, but it still would dissapate alot over the types of range we're talking. So it's unlikely to blind anyone.
in action.
Assume I was drunk when I posted this.
Ironic subnote: I frequently fly my plane directly over NORAD without violating any airspace at all. In fact, I could fly it right down the tunnel and the only regulation I'd be breaking is the one about "500 feet from any structure, vessel, etc." ...how much of NORAD is subterranean bunkers designed to withstand nukes? I don't know this tunnel you speak of, but I imagine there are blast doors between it and anything of *real* importance. I doubt they are at all worried about a plane, even loaded with TNT hitting them. Plus, I'm sure they have some fun surprises hidden for potential intruders (I assume that in a state of war, that tunnel is not supposed to be invaded easily by say paratroopers or a covert team operating behind enemy lines...)
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Won't this mean larger no-fly zones (e.g., +17 miles in all directions) to give the fighter pilots more time for the intercept?
You do know that the Earth is round, right? They can just go north from Russia to reach the north pole, at which time they can go south into North America.