Lenovo Completes Acquisition Of IBM's PC Division

karvind writes "Chinese computer maker Lenovo has completed its $1.75 billion purchase of IBM's personal computer division, creating the world's third-largest PC maker. Under the deal, IBM takes an 18.9 percent stake in Lenovo. Lenovo paid $1.25 billion for the IBM PC unit and assumed debt, which brought the total cost to $1.75 billion. Slashdot timeline: Dec 3, 2004: IBM Puts PC Business Up for Sale, Dec 4, 2004: Chinese PC Maker Looks to Buy IBM's PC Business, and Mar 9, 2005: U.S. Approves IBM/Lenovo Sale"

Comments

New brand name?

[winkydink]

Google has many hints

Note: It's a politically incorrect joke. Emphasis on joke. If you don't like politically incorrect jokes, don't click on the link.

Re:New brand name?

[Anonymous Coward]

but jokes are supposed to be funny...

Re:New brand name?

[pastpolls]

You're right, that is not PC... but I just laughed out loud for the first time in a week.

Re:New brand name?

[TripMaster Monkey]

So did I...I haven't been this embarassed about laughing about something since Beavis and Butthead.

Re:New brand name?

[Gruneun]

PC or not, the "raptop" comment from the last related post still makes me snicker.

Re:New brand name?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are worthless. Stop posting.

Re:New brand name?

[TripMaster Monkey]

You are anonymous. No one cares what you think.

IBM doesn't need stinking pcs!

[Anonymous Coward]

but i wonder what this will do to support for prior IBM computers

A new hope for IBM

[squiggleslash]

I just hope the Thinkpad survives. It's always been my absolute favorite laptop series. They're beautifully made, elegant, and they use, for me, the right pointing device (yes, I know people who don't like the trackpoint, but the trackpad is, IMO, nothing like as usable. Trackpoints are always stationary relative to the mouse buttons, which means you don't need that hack installed to make it usable that you do with the 'pad, where you're never sure if you just accidentally selected something because your attempt to move the mouse was interpreted as a click, etc. I know a lot of this is "what you're used to", but I also think it's an objectively better system.)

IBM leaving the PC business seems sad, and I hope the fact they still have a big stake in the PowerPC and Workstation markets means they'll re-enter, this time with something a little more interesting. That said, it's important not to overstate this: IBM has never been a commodity player, and the PC business is a commodity market. That's why they're getting out. The chances of a populist computer coming out of IBM soon isn't that likely. It's like Anakin Skywalker being thrown into the lava and left there by Obi Wan Kenobe in the climactic scene of the new Star Wars movie, explaining why he has to wear the protective suit in his guise as Darth Vader and why he's all hairless and damaged in Return of the Jedi. Just like in that movie, it may explain things in the future of IBM (albeit things we're not aware of yet, whereas we've all seen A New Hope) and is a dramatic change. Hopefully though IBM's not "going to the dark side"!

But it is sad. In many ways, I feel that when it came to IBM and its influence over the last few years, she blinded me with science.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like Anakin Skywalker being thrown into the lava and left there by Obi Wan Kenobe in the climactic scene of the new Star Wars movie...

Worst. Analogy. Ever.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[Txiasaeia]

Well, customer service has definitely sucked over the past few months. The motherboard on my X31 broke at the end of March, and I'm still waiting for a replacement. IBM supposedly has a 3 day replacement policy for broken parts under warranty; it's been five weeks and IBM's been giving the runaround to both me and the tech (their business partner, for crying out loud) as to when my bloody $3000 notebook is going to be repaired.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[tomstdenis]

...rant about trackpads ...

dude, by a 10$ optical mouse and get over yourself.

I'd rather use a real mouse than ANYTHING put in a laptop because it's just simpler. But touchpads aren't really that hard to use. They are annoying if you rest on it by accident when typing but other than that they're not a mystery.

Tom

Re:A new hope for IBM

[Anonymous Coward]

lay off on the shrooms, Lucas.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[hal9000(jr)]

dude, by a 10$ optical mouse and get over yourself.

Ever try to use an optial mouse while balancing that laptop on your lap while in the airport, restaruant, the sofa, or the easy chair? I barely have room to put my g40 and a glass of water on the flimsy little airport tray. Grrg. Argh.

I have also had a hell of a time trying to use photoshop with a trackpad or anything other than a trackpoint or a mouse.

So no mon, it's not that easy.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[teeker]

Dunno dude, I just had a broken motherboard on an A30 and a tech was out here 2 days later and had all the parts on hand to repair it on the spot.

Things could be spotty these days, but my most recent personal experience has been good. YMMV of course.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[Anonymous Coward]

here's an idea, faggot:
get over yourself.

The whole point to a laptop is portability. It's bad enough I have to lug around an external power supply; now you want me to have to cram a mouse in my bag along with my laptop and my books and binders? Basically, fuck you and the iBook attitude you rode in on. What makes Thinkpads great is the fact that you don't need to carry tons of bullshit around with the laptop. To quote a JC Penney slogan, "It's all inside."

Furthermore, when's the last time you saw a three-button trackpad? I didn't think so. I thank god my Thinkpad has an X-friendly three-button setup so I don't have to carry around a Logitech ZOMGX4900000 Optical Pro ExXxtreme Edition trackball or whatever the fuck.

in conclusion you're a faggot and I fucked your sister

Re:A new hope for IBM

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm buying a new laptop soon. I looked at the Thinkpad, but now that the Chicoms have taken it over, it's the wrong choice.

Free China! Support Taiwan!

Re:A new hope for IBM

[brontus3927]

Here, here! My 560E with it's P-166 is have the weight of my sister's Centrino from HP. And a third of the weight of my old B&W 286 laptop. IBM has always been more in tune with the needs of the business class.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like Anakin Skywalker being thrown into the lava and left there by Obi Wan Kenobe in the climactic scene of the new Star Wars movie...

Worst. Analogy. Ever.

No, this is:

It's like a bunyon in your left nostril left there by the intrusive drone of Alien Pope during his weekly sermon on why we should eat pieces of our neighbors liver to better understand the glories of our great god, Eddy the Reproductive Shrew, Lord of the Golden Fucker.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, well, I just pissed my pants and nobody from IBM came to help me.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[Anonymous Coward]

in conclusion you're a faggot and I fucked your sister

I guess you weren't aware that his sister is a tranny named Bob. Apparently you aren't up to speed on the difference between vaginal juices as Anal-Eaze.

Oh, and by the way, those sores on your penis won't go away.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[Pad-Lok]

Ever try to use an optial mouse while balancing that laptop on your lap...

Yes, I just usually place the mouse on my thigh and the laptop over my knees. No problems here.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[Anonymous Coward]

It's okay. I don't use it much anyway. :(

Re:A new hope for IBM

[jlebrech]

Oh thanks a lot, you've ruined the whole movies for me now!! i was looking forward episodes 4-6.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[Anonymous Coward]

He was trying to insert the spoiler without a warning, you fucking sucker!

Re:A new hope for IBM

[ikea5]

I know this is slashdot, but not every nerds here are that fat, alright?

Re:A new hope for IBM

[X0563511]

Don't you hate it when the jerk in front of you puts his seat back down and forces you to use your laptop on your chest, or half closed?

Maybe thats just me flying coach all the time...

Re:A new hope for IBM

[Blakey Rat]

where you're never sure if you just accidentally selected something because your attempt to move the mouse was interpreted as a click, etc

You know you can turn that off in like 5 seconds, right? And never be bothered with that problem ever again in the lifetime of the laptop, right?

Criminy.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[squiggleslash]

Yes. What's more, I'm even aware you can turn it *on*.

Did you even read what I wrote? Here's the relevent section again:

Trackpoints are always stationary relative to the mouse buttons, which means you don't need that hack installed to make it usable that you do with the 'pad, where you're never sure if you just accidentally selected something because your attempt to move the mouse was interpreted as a click, etc.

Notice the reference to this "feature" as being a hack to make the trackpad usable. Notice that this implies that it's optional. Notice my point is that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't - don't, and you it's not usable because your finger's not stationary relative to the mouse buttons, do, and you have to put up with the fucker second guessing your taps on the pad.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[demachina]

"IBM leaving the PC business seems sad"

This deal isn't exactly about IBM leaving the PC business. They are buying there way in to the Chinese marketplace on the coattails of China's largest PC manufacturer, by practicly giving away one of their crown jewels, though one that is not profitable and they don't really want. Cringley did a decent job of describing all the not so obvious angles to this deal last year.

Every greedy capitalist and multinational on the planet wants to get in to China's markets because they are poised for explosive growth and in fact already are exploding. This is IBM's roundabout way of doing just that.

China's government and business leaders figured out early on that rather than just letting big American and European companies just come in and loot their markets that it would be better to force them to partner with Chinese companies, move their manufacturing to China and transfer their capital and IP to China. It was a smart strategy because it gave them a huge jumpstart thanks to the infusion of capital and IP and its allowing them to rapidly surpass their American and European benefactors, and Asian competitors. China is growing a LOT faster, thanks to Western help, than it ever could of on its own. Many American companies are crating up whole factories, machine tools, etc and just shipping them to China, that is a massive migration of capital and aboon to China.

China can force this kind of deal because Chinese markets are NOT even remotely free, the government massively manipulates them and manipulates all the Western companies who want to do business there. Lenovo is heavily influenced by the Chinese government like most big Chinese companies.

It is long term a pretty raw deal for Americans and Europeans but it is short term very profitable for them and thats all most stock market obsessed western execs care about, short term profitability just long enough for them to make their killing on their stock. They dramaticly cut their labor costs by disposing of expensive western labor and they gain access to big, fast growing new markets, both things which are very good for your short term stock price. They choose to ignore that long term its unlikely their Chinese partners will need them and someday their Chinese partners will probably bury them.

Market growth is a also a big factor here, American, Japan and European markets are mature, saturated, tired, slow growth and obviously the labor is way overpriced in a newly globalized market place. Real wages aren't growing in those places so most people don't have any new money to spend buying products. The head of GE was on Charlie Rose a while ago and he spelled it out. All big multinationals are moving all their labor intensive jobs to the cheapest, friendliest(a.k.a oppressed) labor market and China is the leader by far in that arena. They are also completely fixated on tapping new markets with growth potential those are in places like China, India, Russia and Eastern Europe not the U.S., Western Europe and Japan.

There is a whole lot of basic Marxism/Capitalism going on here. Capitalism is always going to flow production to the cheapest labor and sales to the growing markets. When growth slows and stops in the developed nations they have to pump up new markets in the underdeveloped world by employing workers there, pumping money in to their economies and training them in rampant consumerism. If you don't brainwash people in these new markets that they must have cars, fast food and appliances capitalism would starve.

Unfortunately capitalism really isn't a sustainable economic model. Eventually the world is going to burst at the seams from the overpopulation of rampant consumers, pollution, resource exhaustion, etc. America got away with its extravagantly wasteful life style for half a century but when you introduce the same excess in places like China and India the world is going to run out finite

Re:A new hope for IBM

[tomstdenis]

Here's a tip... don't bother using your laptop on a plane or in a restaurant.

ENJOY YOUR LIFE.

I mean I use my laptop professionally and the only time I "really need" to work at it [and not just boot it up to get a number or two] is when I'm at an office of some sort.

When I fly I just relax and enjoy the trip. Bring my gameboy/some cds and enjoy it.

Tom

Re:A new hope for IBM

[tomstdenis]

Try being 180cm tall or so and having the jerk infront of you "insist" on moving the seat back. Of course I then "insist" on digging my knee into the middle of their back.

And by "insist" I mean "laws of physics dictate this". As much as people like to think I'm a jerk for that I can't grow shorter on the plane so you can lean back over my knees [e.g. my space].

Honestly I don't understand why the seats recline at all. Not like there is actually enough space for it anyways. Might as well just be fixed position and get over it.

As for using a laptop on a plane I never saw the point. On flights 2 hrs you're up and down pretty fast and on longer flights the battery won't last.

So chances are if you're rushing todo work on a 2hr flight to a clients you're not prepared anyways. And otherwise you're laptop won't last the flight so there's no point.

Tom

Re:A new hope for IBM

[tomstdenis]

um, a mouse weighs all of like 100g at most... I throw mine in my knapsack with my power adapter [which weighs ~400g]. WOW! THATS HEAVY!!!

Plus I'm not a noob and can get along with the keyboard only for 90% of what I do with a computer anyways. Try not using a mickey-mouse operating system and you'll see what a real userland toolset can get you.

Tom

Re:A new hope for IBM

[X0563511]

The flights I take are usually about 5-5.5 hours long. My laptop has a 2 hour and a 1.5 hour battery, so I can get 3.5 out of 5, that's not bad.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[figgypower]

I feel that when it came to IBM and its influence over the last few years, she blinded me with science

Yeah, weird science. IBM's architechture is the cause of many modern day computing woes. We are only now moving away from that hacked-together architechture.

Re:A new hope for IBM

[tomstdenis]

I'm not saying you *can't* use a laptop on a flight. I'm saying it's not worth the hassle of getting it out of the bag/case, doing work, being interrupted by the beverage/food/peeps, etc...

The way I found to travel that makes it peaceful is to just space out. Get comfy, put seat belt on and just vege. Mind shuts off, flight seems shorter.

Now if there was more room and an AC outlet ... I'd be all over the using the laptop...

Doesn't help that I have a Presario 2100 which isn't exactly a "small" laptop [15" screen to start with]. So opening that on the average tray is a challenge in coach.

Tom

Re:A new hope for IBM

[markhb]

Umm... some of us are trying to remain spoiler-free, you know (re: the lava thing)

Re:A new hope for IBM

[X0563511]

I have an HP Pavillion ze5700(*)... the same size if not bigger. I couldn't stand a smaller screen though, or one that breaks the 4:3 ratio.

But I have a special backpack that has a laptop compartment alont the back, and I keep books and such in there as well. So when I want to take it out, slide the backpack up against my legs, open the back pouch. Pull the velcro strap, and slide the laptop up and out.

I'm pretty patient about things, but being strapped into such a small place for longer than 2 hours breaks my limit. It helps that I have good books, and a Sony walkman/mp3/atrac player that gets a good 20+ hours off of a set of AA batteries (rechargable, I might add...)

(*)
A very good laptop, aside from the Broadcom miniPCI wireless. Need to use ndiswrapper. They also messed with some of the extra buttons, only 2 of the "multimedia" keys produce output in "cat /dev/input/whatever". The mute key doesn't output any there either, just the vol up/down ones. Same deal with the radio button (wifi on/off in windows. I could set scripts to do the same, but only if I can capture the input.

taking bets

[Naikrovek]

how long before we see lonovo machines at Best Buy?

Re:taking bets

[iocat]

How long before they drop the Lonovo name and just become Think Computers? They can still use the IBM brand name for five years. I'm buying my next ThinkPad in 28 days -- hopefully it isn't my last.

By the way, any recommendations? I can probably spend about $15000 - $2000, so I am assuming I'll get a nice R-series.

Re:taking bets

[0kComputer]

Actually, If i remember correctly, part of the deal was that they could use the IBM name/brand for 7 or 8 years, something like that anyways. Nonetheless, I doubt we'll be seeing the lonovo brand name without an IBM next to it for some time.

Re:taking bets

[Anonymous Coward]

By the way, any recommendations? I can probably spend about $15000...

I don't think you're going to have problems finding something that meets your needs...

Re:taking bets

[mmkkbb]

I can probably spend about $15000

You could trick out a PowerBook and a battery operated Xserve RAID for that much cash.

Re:taking bets

[Prophet of Nixon]

Get a new T, or an X from the 30 series (32 is a good one).

Re:taking bets

[chez69]

maybe he doesn't want an apple?

Re:taking bets

[superpulpsicle]

I still can't tell if this spell the end of IBM's xSeries? Which has been the most organized x86 line in IBM history. Not the most affordable, but they got all the drivers OEMed into IBM's land, and it's well maintained.

Re:taking bets

[iocat]

Correct! I like Apples fine, and am staring at two //c's, an SE, a Scribe and Imagewriter priniter as I type this, but I need a laptop with three buttons and a track point. These days IBM just makes a better laptop (for me) than Apple.

Slashdot and Chinese stories...

[Neil Blender]

...after an hour, they need to post another one.

Um... who does this effect, really?

[TodPunk]

Honestly, I don't think this matters much. Thinkpads are about the only IBM PCs I've ever seen used in the past 10 years. We had an old IBM PC back in High School that was donated because it simply didn't hold up. We ended up trashing it because it kept eating video cards like they were candy, and the computer lab didn't have many to spare for it. It did resist that sledgehammer well, but that doesn't have much to do with the computer itself.

So in the end, this really doesn't effect anyone I know of unless you really want a Thinkpad...

Re:Um... who does this effect, really?

[amliebsch]

It did resist that sledgehammer well, but that doesn't have much to do with the computer itself.

Unless, of course, you're talking about that Model M keyboard it came with!

Re:Um... who does this effect, really?

[kissyfish]

Have you worked for the gov't lately. A lot of them are still IBM shops (he types from his IBMPC) Kissyfish

Re:Um... who does this effect, really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, I don't think this matters much. Thinkpads are about the only IBM PCs I've ever seen used in the past 10 years.

Bullocks.

My last employer purchased IBM desktops for us (the R&D group). They were amazing machines. Outstanding performance and amazingly quiet. I just wish that I could have afforded one at home too.

Re:Um... who does this effect, really?

[Mad Merlin]

I did a co-op term for the Ministry of Transportation of Ontario just recently and I can tell you that they are exclusively using IBM Thinkpads, desktops and servers. I've never been excited about the desktops, and can't say much about the servers, but (typed from a Thinkpad T40) the Thinkpads are awesome machines. Very rugged, great Linux support and very light/thin with great battery life. They also come with one of the nicest keyboards on a laptop I've ever seen (with no blasted windows keys!), and they do have a nipple, which is of course the only proper pointing device for a laptop.

If I had the money, I'd buy up a couple more just in case, but I don't... I will accept donations though!

What Future For Thinkpad's?

[rAiNsT0rm]

It figures the only laptop I will even consider since they hooked me on the little pointer nub is a Thinkpad. A lot of business users rely on TP's too, and now with this Lenovo aquisition what lays ahead for the beloved Thinkpad?

Re:What Future For Thinkpad's?

[Anonymous Coward]

Due to a mix-up in translating engineering documents into Chinese, the new ThinkPads will literally be made of TP. Due to their soft exterior, they will be re-marketed as competition to the Panasonic Toughbooks.

Re:What Future For Thinkpad's?

[Anonymous Coward]

the little pointer nub


It is called a mouse nipple

Re:What Future For Thinkpad's?

[Anonymous Coward]

The lenovo.com website has a Java presentation which talks about their own Y200 laptop, which looks nothing like a ThinkPad, and which doesn't have the ThinkPad's trackpoint.

The Y200 sounds like the death of the ThinkPad.

Re:What Future For Thinkpad's?

[ArtDent]

ThinkPad now. ThinkPad always.

Re:What Future For Thinkpad's?

[mikelieman]

Clit. They're called clits.

But will they run Linux?

[belmolis]

Here's a case in which the standard question "but does it run Linux?" is actually relevant. China getting into the PC business in a big way could have an impact on the availability of machines on which one doesn't have to pay the Microsoft tax. With China explicitly interested in independence from Microsoft, it seems likely that they won't play ball with Microsoft and will offer machines with no OS or with Linux pre-installed.

Re:But will they run Linux?

[TodPunk]

I highly doubt it would be profitable to spend 1.75 billion dollars on a company and then not offer Windows machines. As much as we all like Linux, in a corporate sales environment, it's just fighting an uphill battle, and not a wise choice from a risk management perspective.

Unless they really REALLY hate Microsoft, they'll continue to offer Windows, and just offer Linux as an alternative.

Re:But will they run Linux?

[belmolis]

Sure, I wasn't suggesting that they would refuse to provide MS Windows, just that they wouldn't insist on it. If they don't want to deal with MS, or if it becomes problematic because they won't sell all their machines preloaded, they might ship machines with no OS or Linux, with MS Windows installation done by OEMs or retailers for those who want it.

Re:But will they run Linux?

[grumpyman]

First off, Lenovo is a private corporation, not a state run business. It's all about profit. It's nature is just as good (or evil) as any other businesses in the world. Check this out:

"ThinkPad recommends Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional"

But I agree that it's possible that they may go towards more to a non-MS, or MS-agnostic company.

Re:But will they run Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not very likely. The "Microsoft tax" applies to all machines they sell, no matter what OS is installed, or else becomes prohibitively expensive. Either way, it's not cost-effective for any major hardware company to offer alternatives.

(And if you think this is monopolistic, consider that before the antitrust case, the manufacturers had to pay full price if they sold so much as a single PC without Windows. By comparison, this arrangement is perfectly fair...)

Re:But will they run Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not likely. MS will continue to dominate the desktop market until Linux becomes more mature (i.e. "Just Works").

An example: USB peripherals. When users can plug in their USB digital cameras and iPods etc... and have those "just work". Only then will we see Linux start to make a dent in MS's desktop market share.

Re:But will they run Linux?

[belmolis]

Lenovo may be a private corporation, but a good chunk of their market is, or will be, in China, where many of the buyers will part of the government, and in any case, in China even private companies are subject to a lot of government influence. It is true that Lenovo will probably continue to provide MS Windows where they think it will be profitable; I don't expect them to take a purely ideological stance. At the same time, between government pressure, the growing Chinese Linux market, and the widespread desire of Chinese people not to be controlled by or beholden to foreign companies, Lenovo will have a lot of motivation not to insist on pre-loading MS Windows on every machine.

Re:But will they run Linux?

[chris_sawtell]

ThinkPads run Linux beautifully. Look what 'uname -r' on my TP says:-
Linux imogen 2.6.11 #3 SMP Fri Apr 29 14:57:42 NZST 2005 i686 Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 - M CPU 1.80GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

It takes a bit of knowledge and effort to get the ACPI and wireless systems to go, but that's all. I'm happy.

Re:But will they run Linux?

[nycbicyclist]

Acer sells its laptops in Taiwan with a version of Linux called Linpus. But Acer laptops in America (and Europe too, I believe) are strictly windows. I wrote to Acer North America asking if I could get a copy of Linpus, but never got a reply. In any event, your main point is still probably correct -- Lenova may offer linux machines in China (thus adding to the linux juggernaut), even if we don't see the benefit in North America.

Re:But will they run Linux?

[Rick Zeman]

Here's a case in which the standard question "but does it run Linux?" is actually relevant. China getting into the PC business in a big way could have an impact on the availability of machines on which one doesn't have to pay the Microsoft tax

Ugh, to me paying the China tax would be worse than paying the MS tax.

Re:But will they run Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems to me, from my experience, is that the people in China are much less prepared to switch to Linux than the rest of the world.

They don't seem to understand (software) technologies and their applications, and their ways of doing things are rather backwards, despite all available resources.

I'd say it's the culture.

Disclaimer: All are personal opinions, none based on hard facts. I do not live in mainland China. This is not intended to be a troll, though it may be modded as such.

my girlfriend will hate me saying this

[h4rr4r]

As much as it may be the only practice most /.ers ever get, I hope to god they get rid of that stupid clitoris mouse.

Re:my girlfriend will hate me saying this

[sidepocket]

Napoleon: "Yeah, my old girlfriend from Oklahoma was gonna fly out here for the dance but she couldn't 'cause she's doing some modeling right now."
Pedro: "Is she hot?"
Napoleon: "See for yourself."
Pedro: "Wow."
Napoleon: "Yeah, I took her to the mall to get some glamour shots for her birthday one year."
Pedro: "I like her bangs."
Napoleon: "Me too."

Re:my girlfriend will hate me saying this

[TheGavster]

I know there will be about a million posts in this thread on the topic of preferred laptop pointing device, but I don't see why. One of the reasons that I love Thinkpads so much is that they come with both a touchpad and a nubbin. I'm happy with my proportional mousing (mouse moves in proportion to how my finger moves), and my friends who prefer it get differential mousing (finger movement controls the rate of change of cursor position) when they use my machine.

Re:my girlfriend will hate me saying this

[Anonymous Coward]

preferable to running your finger all over that big greasy ass sized 'oooo touch my ass' pad?

Re:my girlfriend will hate me saying this

[Locke2005]

I know what you mean! Its so hard to get my tongue down there between the keys that I usually wind up just using the touchpad instead!

Re:my girlfriend will hate me saying this

[Zemplar]

"As much as it may be the only practice most /.ers ever get, I hope to god they get rid of that stupid clitoris mouse."

You still haven't figured out how to work it yet???

Maybe they will build something different?

[big-giant-head]

With the powerpc, the cel processor maybe IBM ditched the old pc to begin something new? Maybe not. However I could see somekind of wirless set top box that records (DVR) has basic Web/Email/Office capabilities and has wirless KB and Mouse. Others have tried it, but maybe it's time has come?

BTW whatever happened to CHRP and the promised PowerPC MB's we hobbyists could buy and build our own system from?

Re:Maybe they will build something different?

[TheGavster]

How is a settop convergence box in any way related to a general purpose mobile machine?

Re:Maybe they will build something different?

[big-giant-head]

Maybe I missed something like reading the article and posts which i did do. One guy was talking about his love for his think pad, HOWEVER 99% of the rest of it was about IBM generally leaving the PC market, not just lap top pc's...... So my post was to point out that maybe they view PC's as old tech.

Re:Maybe they will build something different?

[quietlysubversive]

bwahaha think again, bud.

ibm's not going to go for a razor thin profit margin consumer device

there's a reason they ditched the PC - because it had been commoditized

no more discounts?

[jwjcmw]

One thing I noticed with the acquisition is that some of the discounts that were available previously are not there any more. Realtors were able to get a pretty good discount (20% or so) on Thinkpads, but when you go to the link from the Realtor partner site, there are no thinkpads with discounts listed anymore. I wonder if they are doing away with these discounts? What about the good discounts that IBM employees get for their family and friends...I'd really hate to have to pay retail for a thinkpad.

Re:no more discounts?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Employee Purchase Program is supposed to continue for the near term.

Re:no more discounts?

[Jaywalk]

What about the good discounts that IBM employees get for their family and friends...I'd really hate to have to pay retail for a thinkpad.

Well, speaking as an IBM employee, we were told that we'd get the same discounts that Lenovo offers its employees. How those discounts compare to IBM's historical discounts remain to be seen, but the announcement stated a continuation of 15-35% discounts. IBM has equipped its mobile employees with Thinkpads, so it makes sense that they would want to keep that consistent.

IBM employees can also provide friends and family with a URL and serial number so they can get the same discounts. If you have a buddy who works for Big Blue you might ask them if you could use their serial number. But don't expect them to post them on the Internet; a single employee code can only buy 25 units per year.

Thinkpads still aren't cheap. I've had friends who were undecided who went with a Thinkpad when they had the discount. I've also had friends who decided the things were still too expensive. It depends on what you need.

You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[ducttapekz]

. . . No windows key. I didn't like it at first but then I realized, it is a neutral pc. It doesn't have an ms advertisement on the keyboard. I hope that doesn't change.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[stevesliva]

My iSeries has one--that I never use. But it does appear newer ones don't have the key. Cool. Larger space bar.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[next1]

agreed - there is something that just feels good about peeling off that windows sticker after you've finished your fresh [linux] install. all that's left to do then is sit back and admire the thinkpad's sheer beauty.

of course you then briefly remember the hours of pain and misery it took to complete the install but then you ignore that and bask in it's beauty again.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[TheKubrix]

Uhm,.....thats one of the things that makes me dislike thinkpads. Some of us require windows, even if we have dualboot, and even to that, when running KDE, or Gnome, its very handy to open its version of the start menu.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[dmayle]

No windows key. I didn't like it at first but then I realized

I bet you prefer Apple mice, too...

Like it or not, the extra "Windows" key is something that has been missing on x86 PCs for ages, whether you run Linux or Windows. (I run both) Without it, it's much more difficult to go mouseless in a GUI environment. Not to mention all the fantastic keyboard shortcuts you miss out on in Windows without it. (W-D for desktop, W-E for computer explorer, W-R for a RUN dialog...)

On Linux you can map it to your menuing system of choice, or a Meta-key, or just about whatever else. If they really wanted be "Neutral" they could have just put a different picture on the key. All they are right now are lacking...

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[Seanasy]

How do you safely take those stickers off? Mine seem like they're welded on. There's nothing more obnoxious than paying $2000 for a computer and being forced to see (and feel) those damn advertisements.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[cameldrv]

IBM has a key remapping utility for windows that is helpful for this. I remapped the right alt key (which I never use) to a windows key.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[next1]

mine just peeled off - i have an r50. on mine it's the same type of sticker as the pentium stickers.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[thue]

agreed - there is something that just feels good about peeling off that windows sticker after you've finished your fresh [linux] install.

One of my friends put the "Designed for Windows" sticker on the side of his trash can after he installed FreeBSD :).

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[FidelCatsro]

Agreed , it should be labeld CMD(command) or Meta or something along those lines.
I find it rather handy on my laptop , i carefully removed the windows branding on my laptop keyboard and labeld it with a \|/ type symbol , That key i have marked for all manner of shortcuts .

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[Kenshin]

I use the key quite a bit too.

My most common uses are Win+L for "Lock Workstation" (get up for a break), Win+F for "Find", and Win+M for "Minimise All".

I just wish I could untie it from the damn Start menu. One of the worst uses ever. (Too bad it's not Win+S, or something.)

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[grouse]

Me too. I'd rather have a real Windows key though. In my opinion, the only wart in what is otherwise the best notebook keyboard available. They should move Fn over and turn it into a WinKey. And yes, I use my WinKey on my Linux box all the time.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[mclaincausey]

Without it, it's much more difficult to go mouseless in a GUI environment.

Try CTRL-ESC.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[Mad Merlin]

I had no trouble peeling off the Windows sticker from my Thinkpad, no gunk was left on afterwards either. The Pentium M sticker I left on initially though, after about a year it started slipping off and decided to take it off. It left a fair bit of gunk though, which was a bit of a pain to get rid of. In hindsight, I probably could have just used a bit of rubbing alcohol to good effect.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[Mad Merlin]

Personally, my favourite were the "Ready for Windows xx" stickers, they all ended up on one of my toilets. Unfortunately they wised up to this and changed the wording.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[Mad Merlin]

Have you tried Ctrl+Esc instead?

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[syousef]

Have you tried Ctrl+Esc instead?

The Windows key is NOT just for getting the start menu to display. There are all sorts of short cuts like minimize all WindowsKey-M to minimize all windows etc.

You're obviously not a frequent Windows user. Either that or you should know better.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[Mad Merlin]

You're obviously not a frequent Windows user. Either that or you should know better.

I plead guilty to the first accusation, innocent to the second.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[Suddenly_Dead]

Agreed. Some Linux vendors sell them with Tux on them, quite neat.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[Delita]

At one point I tried switching to a keyboard with a windows key; everyone kept saying how great it was. Personally, I didn't find any of those key functions nearly useful enough to keep me away from my Model M. It's stayed true to me since 1986, I guess I'm just rather accustomed to it and it's lack of said key.

Re:You know the coolest thing about thinkpads

[archen]

Well that's one nice thing about the windows key, is that it's in a good spot, but no Linux distro really requires it. In KDE I use it to bind all sorts of keyboard shortcuts without needing weird 3+ key kung fu and not worrying about conflicting with application shortcuts - my favorite being binding win+r to the kde run dialog (like windows) so I can launch any application quickly. I'm not to happy with the windows logo, but you can remove it if you're really hardcore.

oh thats why

[Anonymous Coward]

I ordered two IBM PC's for work 2 weeks ago, I love my thinkpad so much I decided to try out the desktops. Well I called yesterday and they said that I wouldnt get my PC's for another 2 weeks, I guess this is the reason.

I'll take that bet..

[ShaniaTwain]

I bet we see machines with the lenovo name before we see them with the lonovo name..

Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs??

[moeinvt]

I recently saw a pretty decent deal on a Dell PC and called to ask if they would sell it with Linux pre-installed. No. Well, how about with no OS? Sir, you can reformat the hard drive when you get it and. . . OK, forget it. I was then quite stunned when I called about an IBM PC and even THEY(one of the biggest corporate backers of Linux) wouldn't sell a PC with Linux pre-installed . . . or even a box without Windows. ??? How is Linux supposed to catch on and put a dent in the MS monopoly when the major vendors won't sell Linux boxes and force you to buy a Windows OEM license regardless?

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs??

[ssj_195]

HP are apparently working on a fork of Ubuntu (which will be merged back into the mainline branch) which supports absolutely 100% (from suspend/ resume/ hibernate to modems to 3D acceleration) of the hardware on some of their laptops, which I find heartening.

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs??

[Anonymous Coward]

It's simple really. While IBM and other hardware manufacturers realize that Linux is a fantastic server OS, they also realize that Linux is a horrendous desktop OS. Windows is really the only viable option for a x86 desktop OS.

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs??

[brontus3927]

Dell, HP, IBM, etc pay a rather unsibstantial amount for their Windows OEM licenses for that fact. It streamlines the entire proccess. If Windows is installed on every machine, it's a trivial matter tolook up the number of PCs sold by that company in a quarter multiply, and you have a price. If IBM sold computers without Windows, it would complicate tracking the number of Windows sales and Microsoft would charge a higher price. One of the reasons you can get a $300 Dell is because they probably only spent ~$20 for the Windows liscence.

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs??

[Anonymous Coward]

Dell, HP, IBM, etc pay a rather unsibstantial amount for their Windows OEM licenses for that fact. It streamlines the entire proccess. If Windows is installed on every machine, it's a trivial matter tolook up the number of PCs sold by that company in a quarter multiply, and you have a price

Close, but missing a small point ... MicroSoft's contract for OEMing windows forbids the installation of other operating systems

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs??

[datadriven]

Hopefully they won't contain the Texs Instruments cardbridge bus that's COMPLETELY linux incompatible. I had to switch to usb wifi on my laptop.

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs??

[Anonymous Coward]

HP sells here in brazil their D325 desktops with windows xp or with mandrake linux 9.1 ( not installed.. only the cd for you to install )
the price difference is about 150 dolars

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs??

[PowerEdge]

Try Dell again.

Look here:

http://www.dell.com/nseries

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs??

[tomhudson]

Close, but missing a small point ... MicroSoft's contract for OEMing windows forbids the installation of other operating systems

The '90s called - they want your pre-anti-trust-trial thinking back.

OEMs are free to ship with other installed systems nowadays.

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs??

[chris_sawtell]

They have an agreement with the "DevilIncarnate" to pre-install his O/S for small batches. Order 500 units or more and you can have whatever O/S you like.

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs??

[Anonymous Coward]

You can buy one nSeries system. You can even have Linux preinstalled if you like on the Precision Workstation line and it doesn't require an order of 500. You could order a well equipped machine for 659 dollars that includes RHEL3 and 1 year of RHN or FreeDOS.

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs??

[mpapet]

For now, the majors won't be selling Linux for all of the reasons others have listed.

There are linux desktop/laptop/workstation vendors that would even sell you a dual-boot.

If you are taking a chance with Linux, take a chance with a new hardware vendor!

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs??

[atcurtis]

As if anyone here cares if the MSRP with Windows bundled is more expensive... as long as we can get the hardware $20 cheaper without that Windows licence.

Does this mean ...

[tomhudson]

Does this mean that if I want a ThinkPad I'll have to buy it at Walmart?

Talk about down-scaling a product ... guess there's no more "born in the USA".

(not that I'd buy one of those Fords that Gates is supposed to be helping make crash-proof. Yeah, sure. That'll be the day - the first time in history that onboard computers either rust or commit suicide in shame)

Re:Does this mean ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Many would consider not being "born in the USA" the opposite of down-scaling. Have fun at Walmart.

ThinkPad's have been made in China

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish to preempt foolish comments that quality will now deteriorate into the crapper:

ThinkPads have been manufactured in China for some time now while maintaining high quality.

Please stop the unfounded China bashing: the country's industries have been quickly becoming very competent at high quality production as well as churning out $2 Wal Mart items.

Re:ThinkPad's have been made in China

[Anonymous Coward]

Also all Powerbooks and iBooks that everybody on ./ seems to be in love with have been manufactured in China for quite a while.

Re:ThinkPad's have been made in China

[Anonymous Coward]

Very true. I've bought several Chinese Acuter spotting scopes (optics are another area with frequent China-bashing, top scopes being made in Austria or Japan for thousands) and found little noticeable difference with scopes whose sales tax cost about what I paid for the whole scope + zoom lens + video tripod. Sharp, bright, fully-round images from 20x all the way to 60x with an 80mm objective. I could not justify the $$$$$ leap for the noticeable but relatively minor quality differences.

Don't people remember how Japan was underestimated post-WWII? And Japan doesn't have a fraction of the manufacturing capacity of China!

Re:ThinkPad's have been made in China

[busmacedon]

I agree. Why do so many slashdotters think quality will deteriorate?

Here are some high quality electronics products assembled in China:

powerbooks
ipods
thinkpads (these have been made there for some time)

Those are the major brand names I can remember off the top of my head that slashdotters would identify with immediately. There are of course many other electronic products, such as Creative speakers (the good ones too), quality LCD's, and so forth, that are made in China now.

I wonder if anyone here has any real evidence that, given that the countries industries are progressing so well and that they have been successfully manufacturing ThinkPads for years, the quality of Lenovo's ThinkPads will deteriorate. No? Well then quit posting stupid predictions that ThinkPad is now teh suXXX0rz!

Re:ThinkPad's have been made in China

[mpapet]

-Made in China-

and

-Made in China to IBM's Specifications and Subject To IBM's Terms and Conditions-

Are two entirely different things. I won't even get into how bad Lenovo's support will be as compared to IBM's.

Re:ThinkPad's have been made in China

[Detritus]

They are also capable of producing real crap if the customer does not enforce some standards. This used to be a common problem with goods made in Japan. The Japanese government and industry setup quality assurance programs for many export goods. This helped improve the reputation of Japanese products by keeping many cheap and poorly-made products out of the international marketplace. This helped erase the widespread perception that "Made in Japan" was synonymous with cheap junk.

Re:ThinkPad's have been made in China

[Anonymous Coward]

Very true. I've bought several Chinese Acuter spotting scopes (optics are another area with frequent China-bashing, top scopes being made in Austria or Japan for thousands) and found little noticeable difference with scopes whose sales tax cost about what I paid for the whole scope + zoom lens + video tripod. Sharp, bright, fully-round images from 20x all the way to 60x with an 80mm objective. I could not justify the $$$$$ leap for the noticeable but relatively minor quality differences.

Ok, here's the difference between optics made in Japan, Germany, Taiwan and the US vs optics made in China. The workers in the Chinese factories are often missing fingers, their lungs filled with glass particles and their skin in contact with toxic chemicals used for coatings. In China there are no laws governing worker health and safety. In China there are no laws allowing civil lawsuits against negligent employers. In China there are no environmental restrictions preventing toxins from being dumped anywhere a company pleases.

In short your cheap spotting scope was a result of slave labor (that's right you're no better than those who supported slavery in the past). I'm sure the standards in China will gradually improve and as they do, business owners concerned with the bottom line will shift their manufacturing to other 3rd world nations. Wal-Mart is already eyeing Africa.

As for me, I refuse to participate in this vulgar consumerism. BTW ... I saved my pennies and bought a TV76 APO scope made right here in the USA by skilled craftsmen and a Bogen Manfretto tripod made by Italian craftsman.

Re:ThinkPad's have been made in China

[urbaneassault]

Add to this list Dell and HP/Compaq, and, depending on your definition of quality, Gateway.

Re:ThinkPad's have been made in China

[Anonymous Coward]

By that reasoning, one should also avoid all products made in the USA, as buying them funds state terrorism and human rights violation.

Re:ThinkPad's have been made in China

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do so many slashdotters think quality will deteriorate?

Perhaps because they have more experience in dealing with Chinese goods than you?

There are of course many other electronic products, such as Creative speakers (the good ones too), quality LCD's, and so forth, that are made in China now

Nevermind. Instead of having more experience than you, they simply understand what "quality" means where it is clear that you do not (calling "Creative" speakers a "good" product is a dead giveaway that your definition of "quality" appears to be based on price tag).

Re:ThinkPad's have been made in China

[petermgreen]

sad as it is such phases seem to be almost a natural part of a countries development.

Britan went through it (industrial revoloution anyone?). The USA went through it (railroad companies anyone?) As each country develops it seems to go through a phase where is competes purely on price and things like workers rights be damned.

why do people work in such situations? because they consider it better than the alternatives! I cant see how not buying from such countries helps the workers there.

Re:ThinkPad's have been made in China

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, you won't get into it because you have no idea what you're talking about.

As the proud owner of an IBM ThinkPad X40 who has had extensive dealings with Lenovo's other products and support in the past (can you say the same?), let me just take this moment to say that I don't share your paranoid, xenophobic stance.

Lianxiang (Lenovo, Levono) has been producing high quality laptops for a long time now. Further, the GP was right -- IBM hasn't been micromanaging their computer manufacturing divisions for ages, prefering instead to outsource the entire process to Taiwanese and Mainland manufacturing companies.

Furthermore, IBM now owns a nearly 20% stake in Lianxiang -- a very smart move on their part, this company is booming in Asia -- that will allow them to make their voices heard. Do you honestly think that a company as large and quality-conscious as IBM would allow another company to use their hard-won brand if they weren't absolutely certain that it wouldn't backfire on them?

Lianxiang laptops are much, much better than the vast majority of laptops you can buy today from the other big players (Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, etc). They're also cheaper. I've really never heard anyone complain about their quality (and I live in Asia, where they are ubiquitous).

In general, it's good to have at least a semblance of a clue before you run your mouth.

(This isn't my computer, so I'm not going to log in.)

Re:ThinkPad's have been made in China

[mpapet]

1. Yes I do own a Thinkpad and its grrreat!
2. Paranoid and xenophobic? No.

If Lenovo is -so- great, wouldn't there be more China-based companies as viable tier-1 American competitors since most laptops come from China anyway? Well, where are they?

Chinese manufacturers have a different business culture that does not exactly mirror expensive American ideals like Quality and Service. Fox News would report that difference as "Chinese Products Suck! Stay Tuned!!!" Watching Fox is probably how you learned it's acceptable to be an adult and think like a child.

How about turning off Fox News and consider that there are cultural differences that make it very difficult to sell products into another culture that has a different sense of product value.

funny?!?

[game kid]

Insightful, maybe--I can't stand those pads, especially if they have any extra annoyances^Wfeatures like scroll or navigation zones*--but the parent seems quite serious to me.

Even if I was on a train I'd take an optical, and maybe move it on the keyboard if said train is crowded. Touchpads are not teh awesome for me--unless, perhaps, they had a built-in cover to stop those typing accidents...

*Yes, I can turn them off on most, I know. They just feel odd in either case.

Re:funny?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Insightful, maybe--I can't stand those pads, especially if they have any extra annoyances^Wfeatures like scroll or navigation zones*--but the parent seems quite serious to me.

Are we on the same forum? Are you talking about Kotex here?

Re:funny?!?

[squiggleslash]

Trackpoints don't have those problems. The worst that can happen is you'll move the mouse a fraction of a pixel (well, not a fraction, but you know what I mean) because you accidentally tap it when typing. And, yep, they don't have the whole annoyances thing. They work with multiple buttons. They just work, which makes it surprising to me that Apple choose the more complicated and less workable-without-hacks solution.

Handheld mice really aren't practical for the reasons you'd use a laptop. Forget using it on a train, consider using it on your lap while you're sitting in bed (or anywhere else you'd have the laptop physically on your lap)

Re:funny?!?

[AvitarX]

I find that a touchpad with good acceleration settings is WAY better then a point.

The point takes too much force to start moving and therefore moves too fast at the minimum speed. At the same time it is way to slow at the fastest.

Also since it's motion is not related to the motion of my hands it is much harder to judge where you are moving it without tracking it activly with your eyes, and far easier to overshoot.

The tap to click (and double tap to drive) on a touch pad is a huge bonus makign ti very easy to navigate around most things with one finger (I know some points have this, but I have not seen one that was easy to tap click with, it always took too much force).

the presision and speed are just far worse on a point vs a pad.

I would like to disclaim that the type of work I do is fairly mouse centric and maybe for typical use a point is better.

Also the points I have used have been Dell's and not IBM's which could also be a difference.

More money/profit in Mainframes and COBOL

[JCOTTON]

Really. Mainframes are still IBM's big ticket items (no pun intended). The Slashdot community, which seems to be so infatuated with tiny things, still doesn't get it. So, right guys, the total amount of COBOL code, running on mainframes, has been reduced from 90% of all computer code in 1990, to "only" 50% of all computer source code now. IBM is saying with this transaction, that they know where big business is looking. Check the stock price; the Street also thinks that this is a good move.

Re:More money/profit in Mainframes and COBOL

[antifoidulus]

Obviously since there was 500 million in debt, the section itself wasn't particularly profitable to IBM. Makes sense to get rid of what doesn't work for your company in order to focus more on what does work.

Re:More money/profit in Mainframes and COBOL

[xgamer04]

the Street also thinks that this is a good move.

The "Street" also dissed Apple when they beat their quarterly earnings (or something) projections last time.

Re:Wow,

[teeker]

I've had lots of both (and Toshiba and Dell etc) in a corporate environment. I'd be willing to put money on a Thinkpad out-living a functionally similar Gateway laptop any day of the week.

Not that I wish you any bad luck, mind you...the Gateways were fine machines, but none have ever been as good as the Thinkpads. IMHO of course...

Re:Wow,

[Prophet of Nixon]

Out of curiosity, how do the Toshibas (mainly Tecra Ms if you had 'em) hold up over time?

Is Red Flag Linux?

[amightywind]

it seems likely that they won't play ball with Microsoft and will offer machines with no OS or with Linux pre-installed.

Yah, you get Red Flag installed for free, and a BIOS to protect the user from any OS not approved by the Party. Can't wait, comrade.

Not that big of a changeover...

[Anonymous Coward]

According to the Guardian operations will continue pretty much as they are now. Moreover IBM owns 18.9% of Lenovo, so they will contine to have an interest in continuing to support their PCs and Laptops.

Re:Not that big of a changeover...

[callqcmd]

Maybe lenovo will change focus market from black sturdy thinkpads for corporate huskies to sleek pink thin-pads for corporate hotties.

Bye-Bye Quality

[mpapet]

The quaint American notion of quality, service and spiffy design features is something that an IBM-like customer would specify in their order to a Lenovo-like company and not the other way around.

I used to work for a Taiwanese ODM/OEM so I have some experience in the area.

Re:Bye-Bye Quality

[Anonymous Coward]

Lenovo has manufactured ThinkPads for IBM for years...

Still have not made up my mind

[PenguinBoyDave]

From the standpoint of IBM selling this off makes sense...slim down to what you want to focus on. However, I'm not sure I'd be willing to sell of something that I have put my name on if there was even the possibility of the quality going down. Not to knock the new owner, but IBM made one heck of a machine and they had a heck of an R&D budget. I'm not sure these guys will be able to do justice to the IBM PC.

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs? Volume.

[Jaywalk]

How is Linux supposed to catch on and put a dent in the MS monopoly when the major vendors won't sell Linux boxes and force you to buy a Windows OEM license regardless?

The x86 machine is a commodity item with heavy competition and razor thin margins. The answer to the question is based on two variables:

1. The cost of splitting the assembly line (Windows to the right, Linux to the left).
2. The increased profit -- both increased business and decreased licensing fees -- generated by the split.

If #1 is greater than #2, they won't do it. So far, that seems to be the conclusion they've come to. Some smaller shops, working with smaller economies of scale, don't come to the same conclusion. Part of that is probably due to their licensing fees being higher, so eliminating them is more attractive.

Re:I like monkeys

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, this is SUPPOSED to be abut thinkpads! And you forgot the formatting!!!!

I LIKE ThinkPads
I like ThinkPads.

The computer store was selling them for five cents a piece. I thought that
odd since they were normally a couple thousand each. I decided not to
look a gift horse in the mouth. I bought 200. I like ThinkPads.

I took my 200 ThinkPads home. I have a big car. I let one drive. His
name was Sigmund. He was retarded. In fact, none of them were really
bright. They kept punching themselves in their genitals. I laughed.
Then they punched my genitals. I stopped laughing.

I herded them into my room. They didn't adapt very well to their new
environment. They would screech, hurl themselves off of the couch at
high speeds and slam into the wall. Although humorous at first, the
spectacle lost its novelty halfway into its third hour.

Two hours later I found out why all the ThinkPads were so inexpensive:
they all died. No apparent reason. They all just sorta' dropped dead.
Kinda' like when you buy a goldfish and it dies five hours later. Damn
cheap ThinkPads.

I didn't know what to do. There were 200 dead ThinkPads lying all over my
room, on the bed, in the dresser, hanging from my bookcase. It looked
like I had 200 throw rugs.

I tried to flush one down the toilet. It didn't work. It got stuck.
Then I had one dead, wet monkey and 199 dead, dry ThinkPads.

I tried pretending that they were just stuffed animals. That worked for
a while, that is until they began to decompose. It started to smell real
bad.

I had to pee but there was a dead monkey in the toilet and I didn't want
to call the plumber. I was embarrassed.

I tried to slow down the decomposition by freezing them. Unfortunately
there was only enough room for two ThinkPads at a time so I had to change
them every 30 seconds. I also had to eat all the food in the freezer so
it didn't all go bad.

I tried burning them. Little did I know my bed was flammable. I had to
extinguish the fire.

Then I had one dead, wet monkey in my toilet, two dead, frozen ThinkPads in
my freezer, and 197 dead, charred ThinkPads in a pile on my bed. The odor
wasn't improving.

I became agitated at my inability to dispose of my ThinkPads and to use the
bathroom. I severely beat one of my ThinkPads. I felt better.

I tried throwing them way but the garbage man said that the city wasn't
allowed to dispose of charred primates. I told him that I had a wet
one. He couldn't take that one either. I didn't bother asking about the
frozen ones.

I finally arrived at a solution. I gave them out as Christmas gifts. My
friends didn't know quite what to say. They pretended that they like
them but I could tell they were lying. Ingrates. So I punched them in
the genitals.

I like ThinkPads

- me :-)

Re:Wow,

[teeker]

We only had the Satellite models...the earlier ones seemed more durable than the later ones. IIRC, the biggest complaint I had with them was loose screen hinges after some use (same with Dell). Probably been 2 years since we took the last one out of service, so things may be better (or worse) these days....take it for what it's worth.

They will run Chinux, no doubt...

[Urusai]

and it won't be GPL, either. What makes you think China cares about Western IP?

Which machines do they get?

[LWATCDR]

Do they get all the x86 servers as well as workstations and thinkpads?
Just wondering.

Re:Which machines do they get?

[Anonymous Coward]

They do not get any of the server of workstation business. Only desktop and laptop.

Re:Which machines do they get?

[Anthony Liguori]

Just PCD which is workstations and thinkpads. Servers are made by another division within IBM.

Re:Which machines do they get?

[callqcmd]

No, the x-series line of eservers are still wholly owned and manufactured by IBM.

Tech evolution in reverse...

[suitepotato]

First we pioneered the good stuff and China churned the crap out. Now we pioneer the crap and China still churns it out. When do we reach the stage that we pioneer the crap and China churns out the good stuff?

Also, how do you say "Craptiva" and "Stinkpad" in Chinese?

Worst thing we've sold to China since selling them the idea that Michael Jackson is entertainment.

Re:Tech evolution in reverse...

[Anonymous Coward]

The answer to your question is 'however long it took Japan'. I gotta admit, it's gonna be a challenge to start accepting Chinese made and OWNED goods as being of decent quality. As Marty McFly said "all the best stuff is made in Japan" and the Doc's like "bogus!".

No Fourth Floor

[Anonymous Coward]

Lenevo just moved into our building in Purchase, NY. They leased the 4th floor of our building, but I was told they payed the building management to change all the signs and elevator buttons because 4 is an unlucky number in the Chinese culture. The 4th floor is now the "Penthouse".

It will be interesting to see what other changes occur :)

Off to a bad start

[TheBeginner]

I just spent 2 hours on the phone yesterday with customer service and ended up angry both at the lack of any resolution to my problem and the complete and utter waste of an hour and a half.

According to one of the 6 people I talked to during my wonderful adventure, yesterday was the day on which Lenovo took over customer supoort in form, if not in practice. The call (4 calls in truth) I made was still routed to IBM's call center in Atlanta, but my problem was given a Lenovo tracking number. Also, new procedures of a nebulous sort had just been put in effect. While no one I talked to was willing to admit any substantive change, it became clear to me during the course of the 2 hours that something had changed.

To be fair, this is a bit of a rant. My computer, a thinkpad T40, lost the ability to display useful images at about 9 am yesterday, and instead award me with a rainbow of vertical strips immediately upon power on. As it turns out, I needed to have the system board replaced as the graphics chip had stopped working. I am a student and finals are several days away and I needed my laptop in order to take one of the finals so I was distressed.

I called IBM at 1800IBMSERV and my fears were quelled immediately when I was told that I would simply need to upgrade my existing "depot" (send-it-in) warranty to a "on-site" (they come and fix it) warranty. The cost was 120 (later, when I paid it was dropped to 98) and it was worth it to me to have a computer in time for my final. So I was transferred to sales where I had to explain everything again, I paid for the upgrade and was told to call 1800IBMSERV again to schedule my maitenance for the next day. The sales person told me that because I wanted immediate service I would have to talk to "endowment" (an ethereal branch of the IBM hierarchy that turned out to be the devil incarnate) and explain my situation but that it would not be a problem. I called back, waited on hold for not too long (5 minutes) and then explained my situation yet again. After spending 10 minutes explaining everything, I was transferred to the mysterious "endowment" department. I explained everything once again and at that point the entire experience disintegrated. I was told that I, in fact, would have to wait for up to 3 days for my warranty upgrade to "invoice" and then anohter 5 days for that upgrade to be applied to my computer.

At first I couldn't believe this. I had been told that I could get service the next day by two people. I had purchased the upgrade on that understanding. I insisted to this "endowment" demon that she must be mistaken. After quite a bit of insistence on my part, she told me that I might be able to get this to work if I called back sales and got the "information (unspecified)" she needed to put this directly through.

So I called sales, waited on hold for about 40 minutes with a woman's voice repeating every minute or so "please be stay on the line and your call will be answered shortly." That phrase repeated so often was the worst part of the whole experience.

I finally got a salesman, he told me that the voice on high of endowment was correct and that I was simply out of luck (read - had been misinformed for 1.5 hours). I asked if this was due to the changeover to Lenovo, and he said no. Later, after a bit of "discussion," he mentioned that under the old policies this could have been fasttracked, but under the new, I was out of luck. This chnage seems to have just happened to coincide with the changeover.

Now, perhaps all of this is just a kink that will be worked out. I have loved my thinkpad, and I have loved the alacrity at which IBM service has always leaped to help. At the moment, I am deeply disheartened and fear for the future.

Dated story

[kitzilla]

This story is dated Monday. It's not news anymore.

Lenovo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Lenovo? Why the hell is Jay Leno getting into the computer business?

Bababooey!

Re:Lenovo?

[sidepocket]

best...post...ever!

IBM won't, either

[ReKleSS]

When I was looking at buying a thinkpad, I contacted IBM and asked if I could buy one with linux, or without an OS, or without a hard drive, or something... The initial response was no, due to ISO testing specifications or some bullshit... after a bit more prodding, I was told that they couldn't do it due to licensing agreements with Microsoft. I ended up buying the laptop (refurb T30) with Windows, then wiping it as soon as I received it. (Hint: a fresh laptop battery doesn't have enough power on it to install slackware. Recharge it first.)
-ReK

irony....

[gsfprez]

1984: apple puts out 1984 commercial decrying IBM as Orwellian PC maker stifling industry.

2005: IBM NO LONGER MAKES IBM compatible personal computers... They now they make Apple Power Macintosh and iMac computers.

Re:irony....

[AgNO3]

umm, selling apple a processor (which they have done since the first PPC. The 701 came from IBM not moto.) is not making the computer.

Re:irony....

[Anonymous Coward]

PowerPC 601 that is. The 701 never existed.

Re:irony....

[Anonymous Coward]

> 2005: IBM NO LONGER MAKES IBM compatible personal computers...

More importantly, they no longer have contracts with Intel and Microsoft. They can now turn to making cheap Cell powered (POWER based) Linux/Workplace desktop machines without having to buy in stuff that they can make themselves.

Given the same hardware base as mass market PS3 and XBox and the same software base as Apple (BSD) and Linux (Yellow Dog) they will be able to offer business desktops from thin client to workstations.

All they need is the apps to be ported to POWER/Cell and they are advertising for that now. Plus this may be the reason that OOo dropped native OSX version - they are probably taking the POWER port to Cell and Linux.

One way to look at it...

[bsandersen]

Does this mean that, officially, Apple outlasted IBM in the
personal computer industry?

-- Scott

Not exactly news

[Java Ape]

This deal was announced some time ago. IBM has been very forthcoming with information, and with reassurances that Thinkpads will continue to built to the same standards that have been previously. They are already built in china, so there's no real change there.

I recently spent a lot of time on-line (shopping ever so slowly!) purchasing a high-end laptop for my wife, and settled on one of the upper-tier thinkpads. The only downside I can see is the price. They're very solid, well built little workhorses, and I'd sooner trust my work to them than just about any of the Wal-Mart machines. Go Thinkpads!

support

[spacemky]

I don't really care what name/logo is on the ThinkPads... Looking at the bottom of the ThinkPad I'm working on now says "Made in China" so I doubt the MFG process will be changed all that much.

But what I'm worried about is the support. I had to call IBM today to replace a motherboard, and I had someone in "Atlanta Georgia" on the phone in about 30 seconds. They're sure to tell you that the call center is in Atlanta also. I told the guy basically that the VGA connector is loose, and needs to be replaced. He had me a box in the mail after about 5 minutes on the phone with him.

Every call to IBM, (and I support about 30 IBM computers) they impress me. That's what I'm worried about with the whole Lenovo buyout. How long until support gets moved to the third world where it is soooo much cheaper for them? Let's hope that Lenovo keeps support the same. If they do, I won't have any problems buying their stuff.

Lenovo, are you listening?

And what's that ???

[Anonymous Coward]

dig -t ns lenovo.com

Exporting Crypto

[Anonymous Coward]

Will I be able to export any of the crypto programs that comes with my new Chinese IBM from the US?

Dell v IBM Point

[Anonymous Coward]

I think one of the beauties of the IBM touchpoints is that they require less force than any other touchpoint I've tried. Since they moved to the T40 etc lines, they've also made the touchpoints wider and more finger friendly (IMO). If you haven't tried the IBM touchpoint, you should definitely give it a try. I think you'll find it far better than any other touchpoint you may have tested out. I have run into problems where the cursor is at a point in text where I'm not typing, and I accidently hit the touchpoint and I start typing in a position that I didn't intend to go. Of couse I've got the touchpoint set to be a button if I tap it, so I guess that's my fault.

Money or interest

[heroine]

So IBM had 5% of the PC market compared to others which had 16%, yet economists feel the PC business was a tiny part of IBM's income. How can 5% of the world PC market be a tiny part of anyone's income? It sounds more like the same thing which every other American company is doing.

They're getting out of perfectly profitable businesses because they're not interested in it.

Now they resell software contracts from Infosys and resell computers from Lenovo. Only 1% of the total value of that place is actually IBM.

Re:Why don't major vendors sell Linux PCs? Volume.

[petermgreen]

also i think a lot of smaller white box vendors are pretty much building every box to order anyway (they let you customise basically any part of it.

ofc the problem with linux for theese white box vendors is making sure they build the boxes with hardware linux likes.

What a bunch of retarded crap.

[tjstork]

No matter what you do, within 20 billion years, most of the stars in our universe will no longer exist, and no amount of Gaia worshipping commy nonsense will fix that. So we may as well consume everything we can, while we can.

Fast food, cars, and appliances do not require brainwashing. What requires brainwashing is to reject them. People choose fast food because it is convenient and tasty and warm, which is a rarity in many nations. People choose cars because they are a reliable, quick and enjoyable form of transportation, and appliances greatly increase the amount of free time we have. Go ahead and haul 500lbs of ice from the creek to your house, if you prefer. Only a fool on this earth would not want to have the wealth and luxury of an average American, and only the most power mad despot could dare proclaim that the world does not have the right to that lifestyle.

Capitalism is infinitely sustainable. There is no shortage of raw materials on this earth. We have only explored the tiniest part of the earth's crust, in select areas perhaps one or two miles deeps. The entire planet is thousands of miles wide.

Even if the planet were consumed, there is more than enough raw material to satisfy a virtually infinite human population within this galaxy. When there is a will, there is a way. If we trash the Earth, there will always be new planets that we can either colonize, consume or move onto.

Re:What a bunch of retarded crap.

[demachina]

Heh. Dude, nice troll I almost bit and started responding to all this nonsense, before I realized either you are a troll or maybe your a trekkie whose watched a little to much Star Trek and you've lost a grip on reality, one hint no we don't have warp drive and we aren't going to be tapping the galaxy's resources anytime soon, ROFL.

Only thing that scares me is there probably are a lot of people who actually think its OK to loot and pillage the earth because A) it will never run out or B) we will just find some miracle fix when the needs arises. Well chances are you and those like you will turn the Earth in to a hell hole before they realize that miracle solutions don't necessarily have to happen and no, trying to live on the Moon, Mars or a tin can in space isn't a pleasant alternative to sunshine, oceans and an atmosphere.

If you value your "wealth and luxury" as much as you seem to, a little hint, trying to live on Mars will be a rude awakening, it will be a really hard and unpleasant life.

I'm guessing your main tack on life is loot and pillage while you can, and hope you are dead before things turn really ugly.

Re:What a bunch of retarded crap.

[tjstork]

It's not a troll. You no faith in the vast capacity of the human race to overcome adversity.

I do.

Our species survived multiple ice ages and dealing with large predatory mammals and we did so through technology. Take that Mr. Sabre Tooth Tiger - we have spears now! Guess what, now the planet is warm, and all those bad old giant sloths, saber tooth tigers, every animal that ever walked or crawled and even so much as gave mankind a dirty look is now either extinct, bordering on extinct, living in a zoo, or, in the case of wolves, have been reduced to pets.

Look at what we can do today technologically. If the oceans get too high, we can build even higher walls. If the planet gets too hot, we can distribute particles in the atmosphere to cool it down. We could plant more plants to absorb C02. We will build hydrogen cars and more nuclear plants in the future and eventually we will figure out nuclear fusion. We have every means at our disposal to ensure the survival of our species, should it come to that.

The Earth exists so that we can learn how to terraform it. Obviously, because we are changing our world climate it now, it proves that yes, terraforming is something we can actually do. If we can transform our own planet, we can transform others. This is a skill to learn, not science to fear.

We cannot live on Mars or Venus now, but we can certainly heat Mars up, or cool Venus down. And that doesn't even count the many earth size planets within 100 light years of us - we can colonize those as well, and yes, we can get their with technology on the horizon, such as solar sails, fission drives, fusion drives, and even now they have made breakthroughs in understanding how hibernation can actually be drug induced, so we could simply hibernate our way through deep space.

Barring the advent of a newer and more advanced species, (most likely alien), or a global natural disaster such the sun going nova, the yellowstone volcano erupting, or comet / asteroid hitting the earth, there is every reason to believe that humanity will continue to transform our own planet as it sees fit, then our solar system, and then, gradually, the rest of our galaxy.

Re:What a bunch of retarded crap.

[demachina]

Dude you are delusional. I need do nothing more than point out that you view it as a badge of honor and superiority that humans are pushing one species after another in to extinction. Yea our technology is great, it helped us create industrial scale fishing with which we have managed to crash the population of one species of fish after another.

I really think maybe you should try traveling in the parts of the world that are already desperately overcrowded and starving and just imagine what kind of a fine place the world will be when there are 10 billion mouths to feed and the earth will be to depleted to feed them. Or maybe you should visit the booming cities of China where the air pollution is so acute that it is an immediate, not just long term, health hazard.

Capitalism is a great motivator and it does lead to some giant leaps forward. Unfortunately the only thing boundless in it is greed and the devastation that unconstrained greed leads to.

Later dude, you're not worth the bandwidth any more.

Troll Alert

[Anonymous Coward]

+3 insightful for a troll. Mods need to get their act together.

Re:Troll Alert

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll yourself. If the posting is insightful, whatever the motives, it's insightful. More people think it's insightful than don't, so you're outnumbered. Deal with it. You lost. Get over it.

Re:Troll Alert

[tomhudson]

Hey, we've got an AC doing some stalking here folks. Going and reading someone's posting history, and shouting "troll alert" to all his posts.

Grow up, kid. There's more than 1 type of troll. Did this look like GNAA shit to you?

Some "trolls" are designed to make you think. This one obviously got a LOT of people thinking. Or would you rather that everyone be a knee-jerk same-opinion fan-boi to whatever is currently fashionable?

But it's easier to scream "troll alert" than to think, isn't it, Mr. AC?

And for the record, those stupid touchpads drive a LOT of people bats. But you wouldn't know, because you're too busy "touching yourself" while posting bogus alerts.

There's too many of us, let's have a war.

[tjstork]

All this bitching you do about population, and yet, you are against nuclear war. You just don't know how to have any fun, do you? Me, that's how I want to go out. I want to see the bombs going off in the distance, the giant mushroom clouds, and then, the slow death of radiation ameliorated by the massive amounts of booze I consume amid the flames of human civilization. Cheer's cockroachs, the world belongs to you now!

Re:There's too many of us, let's have a war.

[demachina]

I guess its like I figured in the beginning you are just a stupid ass troll or you are deeply, deeply disturbed. Sorry I wasted the time on ya.