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Updating Free Software in the Enterprise?
wallykeyster asks: "I'm an IT Director for a small private university in the U.S., and we are largely a Microsoft shop. We pay over $15,000 each year for our Campus Agreement so that we can upgrade the desktop OS to our version of choice, run Office, and have some Client Access Licenses. I would like to move to FOSS solutions, but I'm having trouble finding support for Enterprise management. For example, OpenOffice and Firefox (both of which I use personally) would be easy first steps, but IE is updated automatically via our SUS server (and settings pushed to clients via group policies) and Office updates will be included soon. How are other larger organizations (i.e. more than 200 desktops) dealing with software deployment and updates? Is anyone using Zen with Novell Desktop Linux?"
Run a local Debian package repository, only put updates you want in it, point your system's sources.list at the local repository, and add the following to the crontab for every system you deploy:
/usr/bin/apt-get update; /usr/bin/apt-get upgrade -yq
0 3 * * *
just use an RPM upgrade utility and crontab...?
They cancelled the show people. Enterprise is not getting an update. Let's stop kicking the dead horse already!
Unfortunatly I work for a small college in Maryland, our updates are all still done manually by hand. We still use norton ghost to do all of our mass deployments. Moving forward to something like this, that would ease my own burdon would definitly be a step in the right direction, however we have neither the budget or willingness to pay for such services. We make do with what we have, it works for us to this point, but things definitly could be better.
We have aproximatly 550 PC's on two completely differnt networks (facualty and students)
nuff said..
.NET is an option, but I think overkill for this type of stuff.
And if you need GUI stuff..
add perl or pygtk for GUI admin (both of which work well even on Windows for this type of stuff)..
Java or
mod_perl/mod_python and/or PHP for web admin.
It's GNU/LCARS, dammit!
Very easy. Create Rapid install package and deploy. We updated firefox to 1.0.4 the other day to 80 clients in a matter of minutes.
Is any repackaging FOSS for distribution through "standard" tools on Windows? That's the conclusion I've come to in order to support distribution of updates.
would pay for a lot of students to do the work by hand.. And they'd learn something.
OK.. there are better ways, but at least the money is not going to the Evil Empire.
rsync, rdist, and yum. Well yum is not to standard.
What I did for other schools was having /usr/local mounted on a file server with all the Linux applications installed so we just installed it once and they were all uptodate. But that may not work for all casses. Companies such as IBM have tools that can help keep Linux systems uptodate as well as Windows systems. Like IBM Director. Or you can find an OSS project and see if you can get a contact with a smaller consulting firm to help keep your OSS up to date and well managed.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
run all your applications off of an NFS server..
that way, you only upgrade one copy on the server.
-Dirtbag
......You're getting off EXTREMELY cheap. If you switch to a different OS, or OSS, you'll easily spend more than that (many times more) in hiring people to support the new infrastructure.
-Randy
Or you can just use synaptic.
I have used Zen in its various forms since it was managewise. i once tried the m$ offering (SMS ?) and realised at once there was no competition.
Its a shame that Novell solutions that work are overlooked by people in favour of m$ offerings that dont deliver....
I would like a FOSS solution tho !
I've used GNU cfengine for automated updates at a company I used to work for. Basically, you write rules about how the system shoudl look and cfengine enforces them.
However, we used to automate updates, apply system patches and rebuild the world if necessary. With about 5 lines changed to a single server, I could force all the workstations to re-install themselves overnight.
We also used this system to push out passwd file updates (poor-man's centralized auth).
http://www.cfengine.org/
I suggest you look at all of the package managers including Gentoo's portage which can be applied to other distributions.
Portage can handle binary packages and can be "pushed"
Zenworks for Desktops (ie Windows) is now a pretty advanced and mature product. It works pretty damn well. Zenworks for Linux is pretty immature by comparison. I've seen Novell making LOTS of noise about it, but then again, they would. From what I've seen though, its the only enterprise-grade software from a major vendor to offer a central control system. Most others are very fragmented.
What about apt? apt-proxy? apt torrent, if you don't want to hammer your servers?
Seriously, why would anyone *doubt* that delivering software is much better than linux? If there's something wrong in windows, is software packaging and delivery. Did you realized how you 3rd party programs don't have methods to update automatically? (hell, lots of programs even need to be uninstalled by hand before installing the new version, no "upgrade" support)
In Linux, you have things like APT. With APT, you can update ALL your software, not just the a few Microsoft apps. You can configure it like tou want, adding several lines from different servers in your sources.list, setting priorities in apt.conf, use P2P to automate it with a cron job. We are years ahead of Microsoft in this are, IMNSHO.
I'm in the same boat where I work. I'm trying to get Firefox officially supported, the biggest sticking point is the lack of an easy method to push updates. I think this is one of the biggest reasons Firefox isn't widely deployed in the corporate environment yet, sure it's easy to install it yourself and update it yourself - but that's not a solution in a controlled environment.
emerge --sync emerge -uD world
At a former job, we were moving to an internal RPM server that updated itself via a trusted external source...you could also run a local YUM server.
If Linux, then follow the advice of the poster who told you to use Debian -- its package management is, IMNSHO, The Best, Ever! (tm) for Unix. If you can't go with Debian, then look at using rsync. We use that here (maybe 50 FreeBSD workstations and servers), and it's great: add stuff to The One True Machine and it shows up the next morning. We synchronize the usual suspects this way: /usr/local, /usr/X11R6.
If Windows...well, I presume you've got AD or some such. We don't (I'm trying to get away w/o a MS server in the house), and I've just come across wpkg. Looks pretty good, with two caveats:
- You need silent installations of things. MSIs or silent
.exes are good, anything with a window is bad.
- The documentation is most charitably described as "scant". (Hoping to add to it at some point.)
Initial tests are pretty damned promising, though, and it works when run over SSH -- you don't need to be logged in, standing in front of the computer, or any of that nonsense. Almost makes me think of Windows as a real OS.Carousel is a lie!
Pay 45K per year to hire someone to manage a homegrown house of cards "solution" based on rsync, rpm, apt-get, crontabs and other such industry stalwarts.
I think the choice is clear!
I work at a school district and we use Scriptlogic Desktop Authority for mapping drives, printers, configuring email profiles and managing windows updates. Maybe this is what you are looking for - im not sure....
www.scriptlogic.com
What a shameless plug - and i dont even get anything for it..
before venturing into the unknown with a system that currently works for the sake of saving a few thousand dollars. If the savings were greater or there was areadily accessible tried and test means then go for it. But for the sake of a few grand, if it works I would leave well enough alone.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
in about 10 minutes.
- what is the definition of simultanagnosia?! I've been meaning to look it up!
Befor you all start shouting about a Debian repository and mounting /usr/local/from-server, please consider:
The question is most probably about updating free software on Windows desktops!
$15,000 for that many desktops seems....well...very reasonable. I can understand you wanting to move to a FOSS, but in the end most of your students and faculty are use to Microsoft crap (I mean software...) and the price seems fair as compared to headaches of users when they don't get it.
It used to be that Microsoft could never be considered for "enterprise" (I HATE that word) type instalations becuase there was no way that software could be centrally managed.
:rolleyes:, so you have to get your hands dirty.
Now we have questions asking how you do it on a unix. You do it the same way it's been done for decades, and that's to have a central reposistory which is mounted by all workstations. You install and run your software to/from here.
Main problem is no package manager that I know of is able to cope with such a concept
...up2date? The RedHat tool that's been around forever and automagically updates systems to the latest version of whatever?
I also run a small MS shop, servicing about 150 desktops and about 15 servers, all MS.
.Net apps to Mono running on Apache on Windows (yikes!) than move OSs. The other option would be to port the app and run on new server. Course, one of the apps has been done with Java, so no probs there. :)
I too have been looking to make a migration, but there is no straight forward solution.
We also use SUS and Group Policy to push updates and security settings.
If a migration was to be feasable, a stepped approach would have to be taken.
First start changing client apps on Windows desktop, then change desktop OS. Such as Firefox for IE, Openoffice for MS Office. It would be very helpful to be able to use Group Policy and SUS for maintaining those apps!
Same on server side, port
I know I can run Samba for shares and printers and the like, but what about services like MS Exchange. Apps will have to be moved from MS SQL Server to Postgres or the likes.
Big job! Plenty of costs involved. Then there's training! Talk about vendor lockin.
Debian's apt-get lets me crontab an 'apt-get upgrade', but that upgrades every package in the system. The "Debian way" seems to be to maintain a local package repository, in the versions I want, and upgrade against that. But how do I automate the upgrade of just those packages? Is there any apt tool that lets me maintain just a local list of packages to maintain at the "latest" version (including dependencies, of course)?
--
make install -not war
Wasn't the Enterprise's software downgraded from "Enterprise" to "ToS"????
yeah I'm trolling today... I'll admit it.
We currently use Zenworks 6.6 to manage ~2000 NLD and SLES systems for system patching. It works great for that purpose. It doesn't offer more than very basic inventory management and reporting yet. I say yet because I'm on the beta for the next version and it is amazing. It makes managing Linux dekstops and servers ridiculously easy. If you've used Wen for Windows, they've basically pulled all the same functionality into the Linux realm. Imaging, patching, configuration management, security policies, reporting, inventory/asset management, remote access (vnc or ssh), everything is all wrapped into one bundle. Some of the other pieces we use are at our site if you're interested in other open source and commercial packages we use. It's not much more than basic marketing material at this point but feel free to ask any questions.
Let's assume you have 300 PC's, that's $0.96 per desktop per week for IT infrastructure which appears to be working well. If you were having all sorts of problems I'd suggest otherwise but given the information you've supplied I'd argue that your dislike of Microsoft (or preference for FOSS) is getting in the way of your ability to think logically. Remember the first rule of engineering: it it ain't broke don't fix it
we are in the process of moving all of our i.t. infrastructure to ubuntu for clients and debian for servers.
we can purchase ubuntu support services, and finding support for debian is fairly straight forward as well, although we have inhouse expertise.
all 16 000 debian applications are updated for security patches automatically, as are all 2000 - 5000 supported apps under ubuntu.
it's all built in, it's all basically click and go, and you pay for none of it.
it is highly recommended to run your own mirrors however, if you have that many machines you will want one of your own mirrors pulling in from the debian and ubuntu repositories, then distributing the patches to the rest of your desktops automatically from there.
there are also push/pull components you can install, usually those require linux profficiency, but just incase some microserf tries to tell you linux doesn't have 'push patch' capability they are wrong. it's also free.
don't forget that setting up automated backups for your linux workstations is also available, there are many backup utilitys, some like bacula are enterprise class and free as well.
obviously labour costs money, but once this stuff is setup, it require little to no maintenance.
- your friendly neighbourhood cio
...I thought that show was cancelled...oh wait, nevermind....
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
FirefoxADM is a way of allowing centrally managed locked and/or default settings in Firefox via Group Policy and Administrative Templates in Active Directory Latest news about FirefoxADM at http://spaces.msn.com/members/in-cider/
g htly/latest-trunk/ the nighlies are not ready for general use yet, but are availbe for testing.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/firefoxadm
Unoffical Firefox MSI builds can be found at
http://www.frontmotion.com/Firefox/
Official Firefox Msi installers will be avaible in the 1.1 release nightly msi builds can be found at http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/ni
These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based upon the order I joined. -Homer Simpson
This website has downloadable MSI packages that will integrate Firefox into AD and GPO, as well as a howto.
This thread will show you how to do the same for OO.o, but only for the 2.0 beta version.
"For every right, an equal responsibility..."
If you manage 1,000s of Linux machines and are not using CFengine, you have not been enlightened.
CFengine wiki
Allow it to use the built-in package management utilities for your distribution, but manage it from a central location.
Naive question. You might want to smack your windows admins into reading the books they use to make their shelves look informed.
Use active directory assigned installs. Use zap files and batch files if there is no MSI. Set an upgrade policy in the installation. One GPO per installation/upgrade.
Next on slashdot, CEO wants to be CIO, but there is no 'I' in team. What are other slashers doing about the missing 'I'?
More journalistic slobber from the net's finest sensationalists.
> Is anyone using Zen with Novell Desktop Linux?
Yes, I am. What I can say is that Zen on Linux, is kind-of slow, not as agile and feature rich as its Windows counterpart. All in all, it provides a good first step since improvements will always be done.
I know that my last two assignments have been large organizations and both have used SMS.
Visons of Picard beating the tar out of Data and the bridge screaming something about "Blue screen of death no more!....Compile me Kernel 18.2.3e!!!!! MAKE IT SO!"
Julius Caesar - Act I, Scene i: "What mean'st thou by that? Mend me, thou saucy fellow!"
Larger corporations use Solaris in combination with Tivoli and BMC CTSA (Control-SA).
Or they use thin clients like SunRay that boot off of a central server (usually a Solaris server).
This is only really a question in the Microsoft world. In the Unix world it's old hat. Possibilities:
I was about to suggest you use Zenworks right before I read you mention it in your question. I would advise you to give it a try: it was designed precissely to provide the functionality you seem to be looking for.
Not only it lets you automatically update software (other posts have pointed out that you can trivially do this in Debian-based distributions with a cron job) but it will also help you easily define default settings for each application and group of users.
Disclaimer: I work at Novell.
You can also use something like radmind. If you are using any sort of *nix desktops. It is much easier than having a Debain repo. Plus it would use a lot less bandwidth and is tested and used in Universities mainly.
There are also things called login scripts in the Windoze world when it comes to updating things like OpenOffice.org and Firefox. . .
We really don't know what your network, servers or desktops look like. I know that Sharp in the US has a large installtion of Slackware based servers. IBM uses Linux, and so do a lot of universities I know that the SuSe Enterprise edition is really great and you can use a local repository for all the updates or use another site etc... Let's say you ahve 20% servers and 70% dekstops and 10% laptops. The servers can be updated by using something called CSM which can run comnads and do installs etc. It uses ssh to connect to the machine and send the commnads etc.. Or you can write your own tool using perl or bash or python. Now for desktops you can have some sort of network install image and everytime you need to update them you can have them copy the image from the server to the local machine, or use scripting to set up or use some sort of cron set of jobs to check if they are updated available on an nfs mounted disk ( shared file system ) and install the packages. And laptops can be doen on a per user basis or have scripts that check if they are on the site lan and if they are run a script for updates and backups. Etc... In college I used to admin about 35 servers and 80 desktops and 40 latops and all of them ran Linux. Servers and desktops would get backed up every night and updated only when there was a critical fix using a specific perl script on an NFS moutned disk. And then there was the special / specific apps directory that was nfs mounted and was updated by hand etc. And the 40 laptops would all check when they were plugged in if they were on the site lan, needed and update and then they would update themselves. Now obviously all this was not secure, you can run any mallicious code if you code write to the common nfs server that held the repository and the scripts etc... I would say if you have a very big installation 1000+ computers I would reccomend you use a commercial software that does this sort of work. If you are small about 100 computers you can use an in house set of scripts ( get those students to write something ) or buy a commercial application. Over all there are many ways to do this sort of task the main thing is to have a good idea and knowledge of everything that is required. Then and only then do you design it. I mean you can do the whole thing for less than what you are doing now. If you have a good set of script writers you can do a lot of neat stuff. If you could give a better representation of the services and the type of computers you have things can be a lot of easier. Updating FOSS is the easy part making it all work nicely and integrating is the true essence of insanity :)
If you want to continue to use windows and windows deployment tools, there is an msi package for firefox.
I don't think it's worth upgrading free software in entorprise.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Specially with linux, newer package versions may cause more problems to someone who wants a stable and/or secure system. Unless the new packagas have some new features you cannot live without, or has bug fixes. It's not worth touching. Entorprise value stability and security over almost all alse.
Unix upgrades have been centrally managed since some time before the dinosaurs, using tools like rsync and NFS shares.
Nowadays, with RPM and DEB package managers, you also have the option to put all packages on a central FTP server and then schedule an update using the native update utility eg. apt, rpm or urpmi.
So, my reaction to anyone claiming that there is 'no support' for Unix, or that Unix is 'hard to manage' or that Unix 'doesn't have enterprise tools'. Is one of incredulity - like where have you been the past 500 years, man??? Sleeping???
Oh well, what the hell...
NetOctopusu s/
http://www.netopia.com/software/products/netoctop
IE gets updated all the time and it's still broken.
This has been solved so many ways...
Debian uses apt-get, which can be scripted to feed off a (group of) particular server(s). I don't use Debian, so I can't speak specifically to its strengths and weaknesses, but I'm sure someone else will.
Fedora/Red Hat systems have RPM and yum, both of which are network aware (Though no one uses the network functionality in RPM that I can find). I have smaller networks (40 machines in one, and 12 machines in another) that feed off of one yum server, which is a box that would otherwise be re-purposed into a boat anchor. I've even rolled my own RPMs (and signed them; none of my machines will install any un-signed package) and had those updated on all of my servers by the next morning, and created my own repositories (They can even be on different machines if you like). You can have different repositories setup for different groups, as well as share network-wide repos. It's really easy once you (or one of your geeks) can truck through the learning curve. And if they're a Linux or UNIX geek, they're probably part-way through already.
Ximian has Red Carpet, which I believe they sell "big boy" licenses to (Or did before Novell bought them). I haven't touched this in a while, but it seems like a cross between what I've outlined above and Windows Update Services / Software Update Services.
With all of the above (And I'm sure there are more such as Mandriva's urpmi or whatever they're using now) can be customized to only have the software you need, though I would recommend keeping mirrors of the base OS (for network installs, and installs of software later), and updates. Especially with > 200 desktops, I wouldn't want to tap-dance on any of the mirrors' nerves by beating on their servers nightly running my updates.
As for the rest of the question (upgrades, CALs, Office), faggedaboudit. Once you standardize on a distro, you can upgrade as often as you want; some distros will even let you roll out whole OS upgrades through the above-mentioned software updaters. You may want to think carefully about that, since most office workers I know don't like arriving in the morning to find their OS is different. However, it is easy to walk around with (several) net boot CDs and upgrade a bunch of systems over the network. And no Free or Open Source software requires anything as asinine as CALs.
... And so it comes to this.
Put Apt (http://freshrpms.net/apt/) on the computers. Change settings so that the only repositories it reads off are ones on a local file server. Setup a chron job for "apt-get update" (and whatever switch you need to make it not require a user to press "y"). Then, just setup your own repository on the specified fileserver (all you need is a web/ftp server and some time messing around with directories).
Note that users will need to reset/restart any services that are running for their updates to be applied (this is a GOOD thing, as it can run completely in the background).
In the end it all comes down to money and time. I know everyone wants to fight the good fight and go with open source, but you hit the nail on the head when you said that it is very easy to use SUS and group policies to update your systems.
Running a cron job with apt-get and what not isn't feesible. And just like the other poster have brought up, have you even looked to see if you have any homegrown apps that need to be ported? MSSQL is 100 fold eaiser to use and program in then anythingout there and takes a lot less knowledge to adiministrate.
The other thing is to save 15K you'll need to hire someone who can manage all this crap, since your contract probably has onsite support in it. So if something is broken you call MS and they send tech monkey down there to fix it. A Unix administrator that knows what their doing is going to run you about 60K or more a year.
I really don't think that you thought this thing all the way through. Personally I think that because you are using OO and FireFox, you decided to jump onto the FOSS bandwagon without giving too much thought and that's not what a director is suppose to do.
i would say aply the KISS to it!!!
-setup some secure place to...err... place the files... i would say a webserver with encription
-create several dirs to the several different systems you want to update (or one dir for each machine, with syn/hardlinks to the packages needed for each machine)
-place the distro packages you want to update there
-setup a bash script that connects to the https (and verify the certificate, just in case someone plug a fake network to takeover a site... better yet, sign your packages!!)
-get the file list and grep -v with a list of already installed packages
-fetch the needed packages
-install (and check the signature if it exist!!)
-send a email with the update result and update the installed package list
- optional check the email result and automaticly remove updated packages
-profit!!!
each server/computer will update the files, you have one central place to update everything, you can manage what updates you will install in each server by the synlinks/hardlinks
if you need to run a extra script, just umcompress a rc.local or a new crontab file that do what you need and revert to the old one in the end...
setting up this is simple and fast, its cheap and its hard to break
Higuita
Ummm, if that someone was at all knowledgeable in Linux, do you think that he would be asking Slashdot? Don't you think that he would already know the answer to this and be hacking happily?
He's a Windows shop manager and may or may not have Windows centric staff. He does not have an Linux people so, hiring Linux people for just the migration would probably cost him more than the $15,000. But, the cost doesn't stop there, he will need to have Linux knowledgeable support personnel for ongoing support. That means either train what he has now or hire other people. Either way, he is likely to run over the $15,000/yr. Microsoft tax.
I love Linux and use it exclusively, as I have for over four years. but, there are times when Linux is not the best solution and it sounds like this is one of them. $15,000/yr. is dirt cheap for Windows server licenses and CAL's, probably Exchange and SQL licenses, Windows Desktop licenses and Office licenses. It WILL cost him much more, at least for the short term(1-2 years) to switch. And, that all assumes that he truly can switch and that some application isn't going to force him to continue buying Microsoft anyway.
They'll rock the Enterprise OSS or not!
My other sig is extremely clever...
I mean, really, what's the deal here? Most apps can be easily kept up to date by an easy-peasy daily xcopy command. What's up with all this "enterprise management" bullcrap? An application is a bunch of files, they change, you copy the new version over them.
Just because this won't work for spectacularly ill designed applications such as the likes of internet explorer doesn't mean you should become a drooling idiot if an app doesn't come with an MSI or a SUS server.
I mean fer cryin out loud, on most well-managed LANs you can run firefox off of a shared folder on the network and no-one'd notice..
But then I guess adding a little batch file that uses xcopy to "check for updates" to your clients' shortcuts is HARD. It doesn't come with a click-and-drool interface suitable for monkeys, does it? *sigh*
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
We do it with login scripts. Very simple. Very effective. (TM)
Every item that comes on a Redhat workstation (Firefox, OpenOffice) is updated by RHN on my machine.
If I get something outside of the RHN update inventory, I have to update it myself.
That would be no different in a Microsoft environment.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
You're getting Windows and Office on 200+ desktops for only $15,000 and you consider that too much? Are you on CRACK? That's like quibbling over whether you'll pay three peanuts here or walk 1000 miles to pay two peanuts.
This is the way MS suggests in 2K:
/snap and /diff to create installation packages for the applications.
Step1) Use Sysdiff to create MSI files of the application to be installed/removed.
Step2) Use Group Policy to apply the template to your workstations (In active directory)
You can use sysdiff
You then use group policy to apply/remove the packages to your workstation-guinea-pig and workstation groups at the appropriate times.
Get a case before you start. It will be more fun that way.
Quick question. Mod me as an idiot, but why couldn't he write a script that updates the desktops software to whatever version that is current? For example, if everyone's running firefox, next time they login, couldn't a script be ran to install firefox silently? Most, if not all, software that I've seen has some sort of silent install. The SUS server could probably stay if he didn't want to totally convert. I'm just curious because just about everything in my server room is Linux based, and I do all of my stuff through scripts instead of paying for another service. Of course, he could start out small, say only replace 1 or 2 servers with Linux, such as the print server or something simple like that. That way, if something does fail horribly, he can revert to his old setup rather quickly and not have 200 people breathing down his neck.
Keep it like us programmers keep it with optimizing:
;)
1. Don't.
For experts only:
2. Don't (yet).
3. Profile before you optimize.
"All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
This question was very poorly phrased, as it's not easy to tell if the goal is to go entirely FOSS for OS and applications, or just for some applications and leaving the underlying MS Windows platform in place.
Red Hat Network
They want to answer this exact question, for you, for free. Call them.
Novell (SUSE) or RedHat.
They are both commercial vendors, and they want you to use their products. They will happily provide guidance on issues like this.
Use the resources that are out there!
http://corporatefirefox.blogspot.com/
http://unattended.sourceforge.net/
This is a great way to script installation of windows machines. You can put any applications you want into the system and use it to push machine upgrades out.
Since it's impossible to reason about security except with respect to a given configuration, this is a subject which deserves close attention, especially at larger sites where economies of scale are most effective.
Mark Burgess at the University of Oslo developed a mechanism called cfengine as a solution to the configuration management problem. It's multiplatform, mature, stable, comprehensive, secure, and it scales very well. I recommend it.
Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
I work for a small college and PatchLink is the way to go for updates. It will update Windows machines, Linux boxes, Mac OS, and several other OS platforms. The system allows you not only to push out critical updates but software updates including office. You can also create custom packages and roll out your own software applications for Windows-based machines. Yes, there is a license fee but it is one package that I believe is worth the cost if you are going multi-platform. The company's URL is http://www.patchlink.com/
Key things - this is not just software distribution anymore - it's full stack management of Linux - server and workstation; Red Hat as well as SuSE/Novell.
As for customers - yes it's in use; yes Novell use it internally to manage their desktop and server machines. Usual disclaimers.
Evil ZEN Scientist
... Just pxeboot everything and run diskless. Less electricity and more security. Upgrading becomes a matter of upgrading the server's boot and root shares, then rebooting the clients.
In fact, given a given upgrade and software budget, it may be cheaper and easier on you to write off the 'legacy' PCs and build a pxebooting set of diskless thin clients off Gentoo. You could even use them as a compile farm so when it comes to upgrading/patching your boot servers, all the little clients are actually _helping_ out!
I just love you guys that spout off without knowing one thing about which you speak! He clearly stated that he presently uses SUS, as in System Update Server. You clearly know nothing about Microsoft systems newer than perhaps Windows 95.
The SUS server, free from Microsoft, automatically downloads all of the updates from Microsoft's Windows Update server and stores them on a local server. The administrator, one only, then reviews the downloaded patches and authorizes which ones he wants to be installed on the workstations. Using Group Policies, the administrator reconfigures the Automatic Update service on all of the Windows 2000 or greater systems on his network and points it at the SUS server, rather than the default Windows Update site. The next morning, ALL SPECIFIED systems have been updated.
It only needs ONE FRIGGING GUY to manage 10 machines or 50,000 machines and he doesn't have to leave his desk! The entire setup from start to finish can be setup and configured in an hour or less.
Now, the next level is to do this with applications beyond the Windows Operating system. But, hey, they have solutions for that too. Microsoft Operations Manager(MOM) and Microsoft Systems Management Server(SMS) provide complete management control over the Windows systems on the network. MOM is for smaller scale operations while SMS is the full on enterprise package. No, they aren't free but, organizations that require them can easily afford them.
Not excatly open source.. not even close.
Not cheap either.
It's probably an overkill if you only have a couple thousand boxes to manage.
Hiring students - rewarding the apple polishers with jobs - maybe the most cost effective method. It might have benefits from an educational perspective too.
Finally, someone who understands "make the stupid users update their own machines" doesn't work in the real world.
Personally,
If I were the IT Director somewhere and I didn't even know the basics of what is arguably the most powerful networked operating system available today I would be ashamed to say it.
Get a job in another field. The people you support will be greatly appreciative.
---- Go ahead, mod me down, I'll just post it again and you lose your mod points.
... at least, according to some articles they do. See my post on Mozillazine:# 10
http://mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=6602
It would be very helpful if they would release them, even in some incomplete, unsupported state.
Our company has evaluated alot of different packages lately. The two top contenders have been Radia and Marimba. Marimba is expensive but does everything you can imagine for both Windows and Linux. Radia is much cheaper but not as mature. When you look at how many man hours Marimba saves, the price becomes far more resonable (I would never be able to call it cheap)!
best one ive read all day
you are getting off pretty cheap, at $15K. I would careful with any move you make, you could easily burn though $15K in a couple of weeks.
Slashdot - Where the slash is most definitely to the left.
I sympathise with what you're saying, but you're getting a fantastic deal here.
Just for the manpower to change over you'd be looking at $50k+, and that wouldn't include training, hiring etc. to get the right people to manage an open solution.
You might want to sell this to management using another reason (security?) but you definately can't make a case out of the cost saving, 'cos there isn't any.
"apt-get install a b c d ..." would be the easiest way. You can also look up things like apt-pinning. But "apt-get upgrade" doesn't upgrade *every* package, only those which have newer versions in your local repository; so don't upgrade the software in your repository until you want to deploy it (you could probably set up separate unstable/testing/stable branches for a bit more control).
Another thing to look at is tasksel / virtual packages - you can define your own machine types ("software development", "hardware design", "management", etc.) and choose exactly what software (including specific versions) goes in each.
This is an annual subscription. You get automatic updates via RHN (plus a lot of other crunch RHN goodness). I believe you might even be able to set up a local satellite server for updates. It's quite a good deal.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
A few 2 and 4 year colleges have adopted K12LTSP, and it may not be a bad way for you to go. Combinde with a few MS TS boxes, and you get both on the same box, at the same time. So instead of managing 500 boxes, you now have 20 to think about.
The original poster of the "Ask Slashdot" article specifically stated that they are a mostly a Microsoft shop. Yet, the only +4-5 moderated posts I see all refer to easy ways of dishing out software via Linux or BSD. Am I missing something? Why give great moderation to someone answering a completely different question?
That being said, I think it's quite obvious that this is one area Linux appears to have an advantage over Microsoft. I know I'm tired of manually updating 50+ copies of the MS Office 2003 suite because it doesn't have an automated way to update itself. Unless, of course, I've missed something?
I work for a large car rental company with hundreds of Linux system running their e-comm systems. We started with the RedHat Network system. It worked ok and we where able to keep our servers "Up2Date". But this is a poor solution for workstations. It doesn't keep a good inventory and the licensing is a BIG hassle. You can also not add your own "packages" to the management process.
:-) System are not getting updated at all now. This system Hertz so much I've all but given up. Maybe version 7 will be better.
While still useing the RedHat network. I built our own YUM repository and reporting system. This was very secsessfull. Systems, including desktops where keeped updated well and I was able to keep an inventory of the RPMs and File exceptons on each system. Reporting was a bit ruff but it was in the work. This sort of hand rolled system was working well but management doesn't lile "hand rolled" work so we perchased ZenWorks as a recomendation of IBM.
I have been trying to get Zenworks 6 and 6.6 working for months now with little results. The installation was very ruff because the documenation is just brain damaged. Novel messed up the purchase and we went three months with no support.
I have support now and the support personal are trying their best but I can tell they are trying to make a silk bag out of a pigs ear.
ZenWorks does support you creating your own channels. But like the RHN, reporting is bad. I tryed to figure out the database structure (Postgress) and write my own reports in Perl with limited sucksess.
If money is no limit. Write your own.
There are 10 type of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Found this through google:
http://frontmotion.com/Firefox/
They still haven't worked out the GPO quite yet, but it's definately promising.
My Gawd WTF...
thought "Enterprise" meant NCC-1701 ?
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
That's Informative :). It seems that apt has the APIs to allow my common scenario. Any tool that lets me graphically maintain a structured list of just the apps I'm keeping current? With per-app rollback?
--
make install -not war
fuck debian apt-get. I'm getting sick of hearing it. It is NOT a centrallly MANAGED solution for updating a large number of machines. Get it through your heads already
Hi Wally,
There are many softwares available that can repackage an install as an MSI. You can than repackage your updates to Firefox, etc and apply using Group Policy as you are used to. There are even some OS efforts (http://msi-repackaging.sourceforge.net/)
I hope that you don't let software distribution be a stickler here. The benefits to rolling out Firefox, etc are many.
Radmind is exactly what you're looking for. It makes managing lab, office and kiosk machines a snap. It works on Linux, Solaris and OS X. I've been using it for years as have many other schools that use these operating systems. It's pretty easy to use (I had no real command line experience coming to use it on OS X, but do it all via command line now), fast and actively developed. Essentially it is a filesystem manager, but works with transcripts (essentially lists) of files and there is a priority system for what can override what. It gives you lots of control and is very scriptable. I highly suggest you check it out.
the Enterprise used open source..... but now that the series has been canceled isn't this whole discussion kind of moot?
And I didn't like how they killed off Trip in the last episode.
Fly Fish? Participate in our forum
You must have a distribution system for all of the existing applications you have on your machines. Just use that. Open Office and Firefox are no different from any other app.
Linux systems are simple. http://www.infrastructures.org/
Deleted
Am I missing something? Why not use FireFox/OpenOffice with SMS or the like? Should be pretty simple to set up.
Better to help fund or contribute work toward the programming of PSPP, a free software replacement for SPSS. The questioner did ask specifically about free software.
Digital Citizen
We use PC-Duo for inventory and software distribution. Works fine with about 500 client PCs. I also think that it integrates with SUS. http://www.vector-networks.com/
No. Put it somewhere else.
If you want to learn how to scale unix systems management a good start is infrastructures.org. You don't have to follow their ideas slavishly but it'll get you into the right mindset, and that's what matters.
Keeping Unix boxes up to date is simple once you understand how, the effort required to manage 1000 machines is only marginally more than 100 which is only marginally more than required for 10.
Deleted
A lot of people have seemed to think this question was about going totally Linux (and many claiming that the MS deal was a good "value").
0 92929216
In case the question was about using FOSS on a Windows network (for the time being), the following might help.
This tool is fairly useful for deploying Firefox on a network:
http://firefox.dbltree.com/
As for OpenOffice, I use central network location, see the setup guide (I think you have to run setup.exe with the -net option). I'm not sure what must be done from there to automate installation, we usually do it manually because Workstation installs of OOo (from a central network location) take seconds.
As for the question of whether the MS deal was a "good value". First, let me say that there's more to "value" than cost. Also realize that $50000 per year might be cheaper than MS's $15000. Once you figure in MSCE training for an IT team and the increased labor it takes to run a Windows network you might be surprised. Believe me, once configured, Linux machines can be dead reliable and reimaged lightning fast, I do it for a living. That said, Firefox has saved me 8 hours per week at one client that only has 10 computers.
Well, ask your purchasing department how many suppliers it has for, say, light bulbs. While more than a few places say "just one", I find universities in particular tend to have four or five suppliers solely for the purpose of leveraging one against the other for good pricing.
What's the point of my story? The point is that MS as a single supplier means you will pay as much as they want you to. Of course it will always be "a little cheaper". In a software world with real competition, that will change.
Regardless, it's worth pointing out that increasingly it is the case that people are choosing FOSS for reasons other than price:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050426
I think Mauve has the most RAM. --PHB (Dilbert Comic)
Windows has an advanced, highly effective software update method for the enterprise: it's called viruses. Such a bargain for only $15,000, you get all sorts of software delivered to your desktop.
SUS only pretends to be a solution. We've been trying to get it working for over half a year now. It's extremely "beta" in quality... perhaps actually "alpha" instead. It can successfully deliver minor and trivial patches and updates, but that's it. Any serious updates and it falls on its face -- still requiring a hands-on visit to each individual PC to do the familiar old "install-reboot-install-some-more-reboot-setup-reb oot-reboot-to-make-the-reboot's-reboot-take-affect " followed by another reboot just for good measure. About 1.5 to 2 man-hours per PC to get them back in working order after a SUS push-out botch-job.
http://www.redhat.com/software/rhn/tour/
Two things to keep in mind:
1. Linux system management offerings across the board are a *ton* cheaper than their counterparts for other OSes -- largely because the mechanisms for installing and uninstalling software are integrated much more tightly into the OS. RPM is built into SuSE and Red Hat in a way that installshield never will be. But hey -- price it out and see.
2. This kind of service is *precisely* what an enterprise customer pays for. The ability to roll out hundreds of packages to thousands of systems, on demand, is what differentiates a large enterprise, that can pay a lot of money, from a small mom-and-pop. Small moms-and-pops? Install an apt server for your Ubuntu packages, or whatever. Growing company? You can spend a year's salary on a sysadmin who build and run your package distribution infrastructure for 200 systems, or you can pay a fraction of that for a system built to do that in 10% of a sysadmin's time. Like, say, Red Hat Network.
I work at a large public university doing IT, and we use LANDesk Management Suite to do all our package management, OS patching, inventory, OS Deployment (imaging), and much more! The application is really great for people who like to get under-the-hood, because its package builder is robust and high configurable, and it supports scripting at multiple levels, can integrate with AD or run without it entirely (we ran it on our NT4 domain infrastructure for years), and the best part is if you have feature requests the company listens. They're a firm where you call up their tech support guy with a problem and he says "Yea, we've got a guy here who's been working on the problem, I'll send you the beta of our fix and you can try it out". They're smart people, and I like that.
We've gotten to the point where we can walk up to a machine, reboot it, PXE boot to Landesk's client, select an image from a menu, and the machine images itself, joins the domain, sets its static IP, reinstalls the Landesk client, patches the OS, updates applications, and reboots without us touching it again!
Version 8.5 even does Spyware detection and removal!
Highly recommended.
"I want to get more into theory, because everything works in theory." -John Cash
SUS = Software Update Services
WSUS = Windows Server Update Services
Both free. WSUS is the follow on product to SUS. WSUS is currently available in Release Candidate form. With reporting capabilities this is a nice match for a smallish (~200) workstation environment.
If you're going to rant about M$ knowledge get the facts right.
I've run both SUS and WSUS. Both have worked well for me. I have about 450 workstaions and 35 M$ servers. I patch them all without incident with WSUS now. For the last year I used SUS and my own reporting scripts. What I really like about WSUS is the reporting capabilities. Because WSUS is built on a SQL Server DB (or MSDE) you can build your own reports.
The only issues I had was getting it to run with the NSA security templates/guides. After that day of pain it's been clear sailing. Including SP4 on Windows 2000 Pro on 200 of the workstations.
The company I work for uses a product called Novadigm Radia, which has apparently been bought up by HP, judging by the web site.
Simple - use terminal server and use those PC's and thin clients.
If you add Citrix on top of Terminal Services, you get packaging and deployment tools as well.
This way you get a common platform that is easy to update and is accessible from any device, from any location.
zenworksl ?sourceidint=productscatmenu_zenworks
http://www.novell.com/products/zenworks/index.htm
Manage windows and linux machines.
(yes, I'm biased. I work for Novell, and manage their internal ZLM server in emea)
Slightly off topic, but in line with the theme of non-windows system management in network environments.
What do people recommend to distribute software to a small number (say 10) of Mac OS 10 computers on a network?
It wastes time to have one person install and configure software on multiple computers. The results from having users install software themselves is extremely variable. One can try to conserve bandwith by downloading one image to a server, then installing from there, but it gets tedious (and error prone) after a few.
BTW: I suspect that most sites with 10 or so computers will not be running OS X Server on any computer, and will not have access to the Apple support resources.
This product performs the same functions (and more) than Microsoft's SMS. (different from SUS, I know.) The application packaging/deployment part of Altiris would be a way to apply updates for FOSS products, and the database tracks which application packages have been applied to which machines. It has its own client that has to be installed on each machine (though there is a client install wizard to speed that along). You might also sell this based on the ability to integrate Altiris' real-time inventory solution, using the same client software.
http://www.altiris.com/products/clientmgmt/
Comment removed based on user account deletion
One of the nice things about SUS/WSUS is you define whether it should auto-update or notify an SA there's a patch ready for install.
One of the things we are supposed to know about our environments is which patches have been tested and locally approved for install and their install deadline.
WSUS let's you define a test group of systems. After testing I auto-deploy to workstations and push the file to the servers for my SAs to install.
There are actually a few methods open up to you for either automating or managing your Windows-based applications and they aren't limited to the open-source apps alone, but pretty much are the same for all apps on the platform (Windows).
They include:
-3rd party proprietary products which are built for mananging Windows apps and/or desktops (or servers). They include products from companies such as: Altiris, HP (who remarkets Altiris solutions), Novell (ZenWorks), Microsoft (SMS), IBM/Tivoli, etc. Most of the products can end up being a bit spendy, but if your short-staffed, they can fit the bill quite well (and usually pay for themselves in time)...but please, try BEFORE you buy, because some of them just may not work as well as others or may not fit your organization as well. Make sure you identify what you really need the tool to do (as well as things you'd like it to do now or in the future) and make the vendor prove to you it'll work in your environment (set up a proof of concept and play with it).
-Scripts (via scripting languages, such as KiXstart, REXX, etc.) which can be kicked off separately or as part of the logon/logoff scripts to kick off updates or check config files. NOTE: these can call other 3rd party or open source apps, but they may not need to...I worked for a university in the past where we scripted quite a bit via logon scripts and were able to manage a number of updates for OS and apps, as well as other areas pretty effectively and very inexpensively. This used to be used more in the Netware days, but many organizations still utilize scripts to do quite a bit of work. Used to be much more reliable and flexible to use than group policies.
-Use group policies...believe you can use group policies to deploy software. I seem to recall you have to become familiar with the process of creating installer packages as well as get the software to create them (WinINSTALL?), but that it was possible.
-Open source products or components (such as cfengine, wget, etc.) which can be used with some method to kick them off on a regular basis (e.g. logon script, scheduled task, etc.). You could use these components as part of a bigger system. You could go so far as to take the work on apt and/or similar stuff and try to build a repository/package management system around MSIs, but that'd be a bit of work...could be someone has gone this far elsewhere?
Any or all of these can be used alone or in concert with each other--be sure to "right-size" the proper solution to the situation or application you need it to do.
Now this last bit is totally my opinion, but I do have to deal with folks who keep saying "nobody got fired for buying Microsoft". And before you ask, I don't hate MS or anything like it (use some of their stuff almost every day). Just feel that as an IT Director or Professional, you have to do your work and ensure that you are getting the best solution for the problem or situation you need to fix. Don't just blindly buy/use any product (proprietary or otherwise) without some investigation first!
Remember, MS is in the business of making money off of you. Because of that, it is in their best interest to lock you in to products/situations which further their cause, because they can't really afford to have folks look elsewhere. MS has never really wanted to play on a level playing field and avoid it at all costs usually (just look at their "get the facts" campaign where they compare the costs of Linux on a mainframe vs. Windows Server on an Intel box...puh-lease)...but open source software and Linux are proving to be a formidible foe, not just because of cost, but because FINALLY, there is some true competition on more of a level playing field than ever had before. Sure, IE/IIS/SUS/WSUS may be free, but that's only because they're getting money from you in other ways or already have it. And they know that once they've hooked you, you're probably never going to look around unless something pretty compelling comes and taps you on the nose.
We've been trying to get it [SUS] working for over half a year now.
Donald Trump says; "YOU'RE FUCKING FIRED!!!"
It only takes an hour to set up SUS for up to 1,000 client systems. More systems require more SUS servers so the time increases accordingly. If you've spent 6 months and still don't have it working, you really should be fired.
Updating Free Software in the Enterprise?
I mean, I dunno; I never gave it much thought. I just always sorta figured that Mr. Scott handled it, or maybe one of his crew chiefs.
Wait -- what?
In reality, you could buy off the shelf Dell or compaq machines with Office installed for $500 each and roll out 300 of them each year with no extra costs over your $15,000 maintenance.
If most users use nothing other than office, IE, and email, then you could force them to save on a network drive and use a generic desktop disk image.
It would help if this $15,000 is broken down into
a. desktop software costs
b. server software costs
If MS ever goes to the Novell Netware model with no locally writable disk, then your costs go down by an order of magnintiude.
I'm sorry I've still not put all of the extra stuff (configs) online, but this is how I do it:
Read my paper from the Asia Debian Mini-Conf 2005, Mass Debian Desktop Administration.
-- dieman - Scott Dier
Marimba makes their software management system for Windows and Linux.
You setup kerberos for authentication.
NFS for shared directories.
A local package reposisotry to hold your updates.
And a cron job that runs Yum/Apt.
Done/Done.
With Unix the management tools are largely built in, which is why you can't find them.
Seriously. Their Tivoli brand of software is aimed toward enterprise-class systems management...and the apps all run on Linux. Tivoli Security Compliance Manager lets you build profiles of what each system should have installed and how it should be configured (even the BIOS) and periodically scan them to make sure they match. And when any systems don't match your profile for how they should look, use Tivoli Configuration Manager to push out the changes that will bring it back into compliance. Also useful for pushing out patches, updates, etc, etc. Did I mention that it runs on Linux? http://www-306.ibm.com/software/tivoli/products/co nfig-mgr/
Check out http://infrastructures.org/
You can achieve all of your goals with the above. You will not save on the licensing fee, but who cares you've got a blade server that can launch virtual windows servers!
Neglected to mention a few other 3rd party apps (sorry): Radia (also remarketed by HP), Marimba, Amtsoft (Prism Deploy/Pack), and there others too.
Actually, they are not free. In order to use any of Microsoft's "free" software you need their Operating System (Windows) which is NOT FREE. You are paying for both SUS and WSUS when you buy Windows.
I believe that this is exactly why yum was developed at Duke University. URL:http://linux.duke.edu/projects/yum/ It works well for fedora. I don't know about other distributions. --AC
I've tried some other patch management stuff (I even was a contract tester for MS for SMS 2.0) and didn't see anything I'd be comfortable relying on.
Of course, an inactive sneaker-net is no improvement.
I'm just deeply skeptical that a registry bit saying an update is required is the same thing as getting the update installed and verified. Even Windows Update, presumably written to update Windows, absolutely SUCKS at this, with silent failure or even untruthful failure ("Update succeeded!" when update did NOT succeed)
Gentoo: compile your ebuilds on server then let workstation sync with binary packages only as often as you want. You will get absolute control over everything and you can have up to day security fixes.
There you are, staring at me again.
Is that why they need free software?
Just ask Kirk to write a check from his royalties for that travel firm - I'm sure he can afford it.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Updating Free Software in the Enterprise?
It's a little late for this to help, but I'd go with: "Computer: Update your free software. Then take us to warp 5."
"Mod sheilds: UP!"
If you want to easily update and distrubte these updates.. you can do so with AD group policy. You will have to repackage the software with msi and do updates with mst files. The only real drawback is the machines imo, need to 100% exact for this to work properly. although it can work without it being exat it is however muych easier though.
If you are on a small budget, you can just go with simple scripting. Pick a Debian based distro or an RPM based one (SuSE or RedHat only) and you can script all you need. Enable SSH for every system you deploy, desktop and server. Then you just write a few simple scripts _once_ and you can push down any update you need.
Red Hat has their own update stuff and you can pay them extra and run your own update server on your local network. However, where I work we have found Red Hat to be _way_, _way_ overpriced (I work for a multi-billion fortune 500). We are starting to look toward Novell SuSE for our Linux needs. Novell SuSE is _way_ better priced. If you look at a Red Hat Linux solution and an MS Windows Solution, MS will usually be less expensive! I personally don't know what Red Hat is thinking. However, if you go with Novell SuSE, you will see that Novell SuSE is far less expensive than MS. Also, Novell SuSE has some very nice tech that they got from Ximian. As you pointed out, Ximian, now Novell, Red Carpet, is a very nice corporate update client. That is the whole design of the product. You have one local update server and put the client on all your deployed systems and Novell Redcarpet handles the rest.
With Linux you have tons of options. If you have a really bare-bones budget, I would personally recommend a nice Debian solution. I have been using Ubuntu on my desktops at work and at home and have been very pleased with how easy it is to upgrade with out dependency problems. I originally used Fedora Core, however I would run into repository conflicts often because every Fedora repository out there tried to be "The" repository for Fedora. So you would have 3 or 4 versions of every package and they would all conflict. You won't run into that with a Debian based distro.
If you have a bigger budget, look into Novell SuSE (which is still very cheep) and their Red Carpet client/server to handle updates. If your budget is even bigger, you can look into BigFix. However, I think BigFix is priced more as a bigger corporate product, though for our budget, BigFix was still priced nicely per/client.
As I said, you have _tons_ of options with a GNU/Linux deployment. Build yourself a seperate subnet and spend a few days testing to see what level of support you want. Obviously, the less support you or your staff want to do, the more you will pay for your solution. You could spend 10's of thousands if not 100's of thousands (or millions like us) for a complete MS software "assurance" package or you can go very lowlevel and build your own GNU/Linux system like Linux From Scratch (which was very fun for a personal project but _way_ too much work for a professional solution for more than 5 systems).
I persoanlly think your best bet is a hybrid system of Linux and MS Windows. As I said, get a test lab/network. Then use the right tool for the right job. Try to build a lab that is all or almost all Linux servers with mostly MS Windows XP desktops. On your MS Windows desktops try to use OSS software. For example, deploy Firefox and OOo.org. Maybe for some more tech users you could even get some Linux desktops in that mix. For your development needs, use OSS tech such as Tomcat or PHP.
Honestly, I would personally love to be in your position. It sounds like you have the ability to use the "right tool for the right job" without all the PHB crap or extreme OS bias. Where I work we have 140,000 employees and changing technology is like the changing of the North pole ; )
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
Set up a big big squid proxy and let the systems auto-update normally, and be prepared to fix anything the moment it breaks.
SMS is a fairly simple answer. It will allow you to create pushes that you can send to all the machines in your AD domain.
On windows clients I would use SMS to push out changes. On unix clients I have set up cfengine to to the same.
Create an MSI of the Firefox browser and use group policies to push it out.
:D
Assuming you are running a MS Server there somewhere
Wpkg or Windows Packager, is a tool that can be used for managing application rollout and versioning.
As long as a way to install, upgrade and uninstall a given software package silently (ie programmatically) can be found, then using this tool is a snap. It runs as a service on Win2k and XP (perhaps others) and causes the given machine to keep itself up to date with the central repository and profile status (xml files on a server). There's even a html back-end under way to manage the xml files.
http://wpkg.sourceforge.net/
Just checked the options ... shouldn't that be:
firefox setup 1.0.4.exe -ms -cleanupOnUpgrade
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
Here:http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story /0,6903,1483969,00.html
.
The Networker
Lesson number one: get rid of Microsoft
John Naughton
Sunday May 15, 2005
The Observer
Drive past any secondary school in the UK and you'll see an institution that is struggling. No: this is not a column about academic standards, dumbing down, bureaucracy, Ofsted or any of the other obsessions of the Daily Mail
In fact, many of these struggling schools are academically excellent. What they are having difficulty with is something much more mundane than teaching or learning. They are trying - and failing - to manage their IT systems.
How come? Most British schools are hooked on networks that consist of hundreds of PCs running various flavours of the Windows operating system and Microsoft Office software. Now it is perfectly possible to run an effective Windows-based network, just as it is possible to dig your garden using a teaspoon - provided you employ a hundred gardeners to do the work.
The problem is that keeping such a network up and running requires a great deal of technical support - the equivalent of three full-time trained technicians for an average secondary school. And upgrading the system to keep track of changes in Microsoft's operating systems is expensive. Basically it boils down to throwing out a third of your computers every three years and buying new machines that can run the latest version of Windows.
Nathan Myrhvold, Bill Gates's former technology guru, used to joke that 'software is like a gas - it expands to fill the space available'. The programmer Martin Reiser put it better: 'software gets slower more quickly than hardware gets faster'. (In other words: 'Intel giveth, and Microsoft taketh away.')
Although the corporate world complains about this virtual arms race, it generally pays up because it can afford to. But schools cannot - which is why when you talk to ICT co-ordinators in education you regularly hear phrases like 'running to keep still' and 'struggling to stay on top of it'.
You hear stories about how difficult it is to recruit and retain IT support staff on the salaries schools can afford, about staff spending much of their time rebuilding crashed or vandalised PCs, about teachers who are contemptuous of the level of IT support, about up to a quarter of PCs being unavailable at any given moment, and about dissatisfaction with the Microsoft-supplier compa nies, which enjoy a semi-monopolistic hold on the education market.
And you hear head teachers wondering what will happen when Longhorn - the much-delayed new version of Windows - arrives and renders most of their existing computers obsolete. The state of ICT in UK schools is a public scandal.
In part, this is due to the fact that head teachers are expected to be chief information officers without being given any training or support. As a result they are easy meat for commercial companies touting Microsoft 'solutions' to their ICT problems. They fall for upfront discounts and wind up with systems they can't afford to support or upgrade. Only later do they realise that between 50 and 60 per cent of their annual IT budgets will have to go to keeping their discounted networks running.
This last statistic comes from Becta (British Educational Communications and Technology Agency), which describes itself as 'the government's key partner in the strategic development and delivery of its information and communications technology and e-learning strategy' for schools. Until comparatively recently, Becta seemed to function mainly as a cheerleader for the proprietary status quo, effectively functioning as an agency for negotiating discounts from suppliers. But now, after a major shake-up and the installation of David Hargreaves as its chairman, Becta is finally waking up.
On Friday, for example, it released the fi
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
psexec @computerstodeploy.txt -u user -p pass firefoxsetup.exe -ms
Also check http://www.frontmotion.com/Firefox/
Serge
Cyndi Lauper is retarded or no?
Yes.
My current employer is a UK university with Windows PCs numbering in the thousands.
The Linux Terminal Server Project would make it "easy" to have everyone be the same.
If the software updates are MSI (Windows Installer format), you can deploy them using Active Directory group policies. If you already have SMS in your environment, you can use the software distribution feature to push out software. As for SUS, you're limited to distributing Microsoft Security and Office patches. Check the forums on myitforum.com if you want to roll your own solution.
> and settings pushed to clients via group policies
may I kill the first admin who change my seetings?
With any luck there will be no second idiot...
infrastructures.org? I dunno. When I see a website that is difficult to read (font, size, layout, use of HTML) and it is about technology, I figure that they don't have all their clues in place.
You pay 15,000 for office, CALS and upgrades to all your computer OS's. If that extends across your enterprize you'd be crazy to ditch that in favor of OSS. Its gonna cost you much more than to migrate to OSS and your users will not be happy if they can't use MS Office. I personnaly Open Office but non-nerds view MS Word as the only word processor anything is just a rip off to them.
Don't even bother updating the software. The show ended last Friday, so no one will see that BSOD on the science console.
There's a very short explanation here
... and the workstations are uniform, may InstallWatch and InstallRite, together with an scheduled Task or logon-script would do the trick? http://www.epsilonsquared.com/