Cell phones as Credit Cards

ante_up writes "We should have known this was coming. Business Week reported that Japanese carrier NTT DoCoMo Inc. (DCM ) is vamping up their cell phone technology. First they added a debit card facility and now are expanding to full credit card capability. What else can you add to a cell phone?"

Comments

What else? Hmmm

[Spy der Mann]

What else can you add to a cell phone?

For starters, how about a little COMMON SENSE?

Re:What else? Hmmm

[jonfr]

Tv, mp3, camera, pda, debit card, credit card, am i missing something ?

Re:What else? Hmmm

[Seumas]

Don't most people pay their phone bill with their credit card? I'm seeing something oroborous about this.

I still don't get the draw of cell phones, either. I'm not even 30 yet, but I carry a cheap pay-as-you-go cell phone that I use for emergencies and calling taxis. If I want to have a conversation with someone, I'll just wait until I get to my office or home and use a comfortable human-sized phone.

As for credit cards... Meh. I don't know. I have no sympathy for people who go into debt because they act like their credit-line is free money. I *CERTAINLY* have no sympathy for our parents (previous generation) who have treated credit cards that way.

I use my credit card for one purpose - building credit. That's it. I try to keep it at 30% usage - no more and no less. And to keep it that way, I only use it to pay predictable, regular bills (internet, cable, safari.oreilly, renter's insurance, etc). And then I use my automatic online bill-pay service to transfer the correct amount from my checking account to my credit card to pay it off each month. I barley even have to pay attention to it.

I suppose I'd use my credit card if I had some huge emergency and my debit card wasn't handy (which it always is), but I sure wouldn't use it for buying myself neat little toys and taking people out to dinner becaue "it's free money!" or anything.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[MrAnnoyanceToYou]

This is just the next step. I mean, they're adding RFID stuff to credit cards, what's the point of having like nine digital / identificatory devices situated upon your person? I'm all good with not having to have a wallet, a cell phone, AND a set of keys. The future IS that I will have all three in one device somewhere around the size of my current cell phone. The real question is whether everyone else is enough of a sheep to buy stuff that has ONLY the option of 1 credit card, 1 car key, and 1 cell phone provider.

The way people work, I expect the credit card and cell phone provider to merge so they can provide it 'easier' - that's what this particular article seems to mention. The car, well, that's just a matter of horizontal integration within the marketplace. (otherwise known as monopoly) I mean, do you LIKE having multiple devices you need to drag with you everywhere? Common sense says you wouldn't want ANY of it, but that would require stronger biometrics than currently exist / people find acceptable along with a more integrated identification network. The options are all rather bleak, but I'm sure you agree that eventually one of them will evolve and dominate if the market continues as it is today.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[Grax]

TV receiver: plugs into standalone monitor. pulls in all manner of cable programming

MP3/Radio replacement: using stored mp3s or streaming

Desktop computer: plugs into standalone monitor, keyboard, and mouse.

Mini-projector: maybe you don't need the standalone monitor

Remote car starter, garage door opener, house key: A certificate exchange system with challenge response could allow you to set up your phone to communicate with and control various wireless devices.

Remote control for your car: It worked for James Bond

Re:What else? Hmmm

[fiddlesticks]

'Don't most people pay their phone bill with their credit card? '

No, they don't.

Pay-as-you-go - whether through age( under 18s) or choice (anonymous billing), or no access to credit, is massive in Europe - don't know about where you live, but in Europe, and Japan, this method of usage is huge - hence OP

'And then I use my automatic online bill-pay service to transfer the correct amount from my checking account'

Wow! You're so 20th Century! What about places that aren't online? Mobile 'phones work there you know. we/They- 're skipping the fixed line/ credit card bit

Re:What else? Hmmm

[Seumas]

That's what a debit card is for. If you don't have the cash for it, you can't buy it. Just as convenient as a credit card, but without ever subjecting yourself to an ounce of debt.

*shrug*

Re:What else? Hmmm

[alienw]

Well, that would be a problem quite often. Let's say, it's the end of the month, you don't have much money left in your checking account, and your car breaks down. You have to pay $800 to get it fixed. If you have a credit card, you put it on it, pay it off in a month or two, and pay little or no interest (if it falls within the grace period). If you have a debit card, you have to wait until your next paycheck. Of course, you could keep tons of money in your checking account to cover various eventualities, but you would be better off putting it in an interest-bearing account.

Not to mention, it's next to impossible to get a bank to reverse a debit card transaction -- if someone gets your card number or if a merchant scams you, you are pretty much SOL.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[beerman2k]

I prefer the credit card because i don't have to worry how much money is in my checking account at a given time. I simply pay the credit card when i know i have the cash (i.e. after i get paid).

Re:What else? Hmmm

[ScoLgo]

How is it debt if it's paid off every month?

I prefer using a credit card over a debit card because I get to use the credit card co's money for (up to) 30 days. With a debit card, the transaction is immediate. I'd rather earn a little interest on my money before handing it over.

Similar to the poster you were replying to, we get one air mile for every dollar we purchase on our credit card. As a result, my wife and I will be flying to Europe this summer for free. All we did was buy the same stuff we would have bought with cash or debit if we didn't have the 'reward card'.

A debit card might be what works for you, but I think a wisely used credit card can be more beneficial.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[Agent_9191]

and by putting them all together as one, it just means less items for you to lose/get stolen!

Re:What else? Hmmm

[Seumas]

Well, I don't know about you, but my pay-as-you-go uses a credit-card. I suppose you could mail them a check or something, but...

So what you're telling me is that these people are going to use their telephone as their credit card, and then pay for the telephone with a money order or a personal check? That sounds really convenient. If you're looking for the convenience of having your credit-card "built-in" to your cell-phone, you're probably using the convenience of paying for your phone bill with your credit card, too.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[Jtheletter]

I mean, do you LIKE having multiple devices you need to drag with you everywhere?

No, it can be a hassle, as the physical world often tends to be, however turn this question around into a more common computer-based example.

Would you make the name/password to every protected system you access be the same?

The answer, of course, is no, that's not very secure, someone figures out one they have access to everything. Same with condensing phone/credit/car access into your cellphone, once someone nabs that they have access to everything. Now this can be mitigated, as you say, with stronger biometrics, so that your cellphone doesn't do squat unless your thumbprint/iris/dna has been ok'd by the phone first, but even so, once that cellphone is cracked it's all over. And let's say security magically no longer becomes an issue - what about if you lose the darn thing? Now you don't have access to anything. At least with a wallet, keys and phone if I lose one I can still use the other two.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[popcornporncop]

how about useful tings: corkscrew, scissors

Re:What else? Hmmm

[Seumas]

And how would you pay $800 to get your car fixed if you didn't have a credit card? And honestly, if money is so tight that you don't have $800 in your bank account, should you really be carrying a credit card with you? It's these little situations that get people into trouble and have them owing for the rest of their lives.

By the way, you can usually setup non-checking accounts to behave as temporary fail-overs to cover any potential overdraws on your main checking account, so that shouldn't really be a problem.

Not to mention, it's next to impossible to get a bank to reverse a debit card transaction -- if someone gets your card number or if a merchant scams you, you are pretty much SOL.

That is completley untrue. I use my debit card for almost all purchases. A debit card is typically treated EXACTLY like a credit card. See, mine has this neat little "VISA" logo on the top corner. That means that as far as a merchant is aware, it _IS_ an actual credit card. And it has all the coverages that a credit card has. You know, like I'm not responsible for charges made on it if I report it stolen. And, you know, if a merchant rips me off, I can demand a chargeback (I've done this on several occasions due to online situations). Oh, and other nice little things like extended warranty coverage on items purchased with my debit card for no extra charge. And an enhanced refund/return policy on those items, if they're purchased with my debit card.

The **ONLY** difference between your typical debit card and credit card is that one draws from your bank. It's real money. The other draws from your line of credit and you get to happily pay interest on it and deal with having to pay *it* off in addition to everything else. Just yet another bill to deal with.

Then again, I guess a lot of people just see credit differently. For me, it's ONLY a tool to build my credit score and nothing more. If I didn't have a credit card, I'd still have to deal with life's little emergencies whether or not I had the money in my bank account to cover them. So just because I _do_ have it doesn't mean I'm going to keep falling back on it.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[fiddlesticks]

No, you buy top up cards in in vending machines, or shops, or clubs, or pubs, with cash. More info, grandad - On many networks, such as Irelands Meteor Mobile, Pay As You Go is the main mode of operation, with account phones being very much second-class.

'pay for the telephone with a money order or a personal check?'

Wow. Now you're being 19th Century.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[halowolf]

And less items for a thief to worry about when they wish to steal from you.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[LokieLizzy]

"i see something *oroborous* about this."
excuse me, but what the hell is "oroborous"? i've googled it, dictonary dot commed -- it doesn't look like a real word.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[alienw]

I don't carry a balance on my credit card, I pay the balance when it's due. What I am getting at is that it provides a cushion against surprises. Irresponsible spending will get you in trouble either way, but there are often big variations in spending month-to-month. Credit is quite useful in that case.

Also, you must be lucky, because very few debit cards have warranty coverage or any credit card benefits. I have two debit cards, and neither one offers anything except fraud protection. I do stand corrected; they apparently changed the rules about liability a couple of years ago. Nevertheless, I have heard plenty of debit card horror stories (a scammer draining the bank account in question and incurring lots of NSF charges, etc.). Besides, it's not like the zero liability thing can help you if, say, your mortgage check bounces because a scammer drained your account.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[_merlin]

The trouble with a debit card is that you don't get fraud insurance. With my Visa credit card, I'm only liable for $50 if someone conducts a fraudulent transaction. I'd be liable for the whole lot with a Visa debit card.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[Seumas]

That's insane... I'd be curious to know what kind of debit card you have, because mine is just a plain old Bank of America issued VISA debit card. It has all the features my credit card has and I've had to use them several times with great success.

I do know that you have to be very careful who you allow to have auto-payment access, though. I seem to recall hearing somewhere that if you give someone authorization to make withdrawels from your checking account (via your debit card, I guess) - you can NEVER REVOKE IT. Meaning that if your electric company wanted to, they could just keep taking money out of your account each month for as long as they want after you've moved away and stopped doing business with them. But I'm not sure how true this is.

One thing I dislike is that EVERYONE requires you to provide the "CCV" number on the back of your card. Somehow it's supposed to prove that you're who you say you are and that you have the card in front of you and so on. Of course, all it means is that any merchant who has ever serviced you has access to it - so it's no longer a useful tool of verification. As much as I fucking hate biometrics when it comes to finances and government and other institutions, I think it might not be such a terrible idea. Or at least some sort of SECURE-ID based credit/debit card so that you never enter information into an online system, except your one-time SECURE-ID generated key.

Hell, maybe some banks already offer that.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[CableModemSniper]

Snake that eats its own tail.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[SeventyBang]

It's probably been ten years ago but 60 Minutes - the real one, not the one they're getting ready to can - showed a segment with Nokie as the driving force where people could walk up to vending machines (and practically anything else), call the number in question, and receive whatever it was they wanted, and the value would be charged to their phone.

If a bunch of people who collectively are so old they fart dust demonstrated this ten years ago...

Re:What else? Hmmm

[spectral]

Why would the cell phone need a method to identify the user? Your mechanical key doesn't do so.

My car has similar to what you're describing. The remote IS the key. I walk up to my door, and pull on the door handle. The door checks, realizes the key is next to THAT door (it doesn't work if I'm standing on the other side of the car), unlocks, and opens. The car then knows that I'm inside of it, and I can turn it on. Key never leaves my pocket.

If the battery in the key dies, there's a mechanical key that unlocks the driver's side door only, and then I can put the key in to the dash, and it'll link up even if its batteries are dead. Not as spiffy, but a nice protection, just in case.

Integrating it in to the cell phone would be nice. I would love to have this tech on my house doors though, I leave my keys in the car all the time (the mechanical ones), as all I need to be able ot get in to the car is the little box in my pocket. The big key ring is unused except for my house doors.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[peter hoffman]

Using a debit card won't improve your credit rating as you didn't use credit. Using a credit card regularly and paying on time will improve your rating.

Also, there are a slew of consumer protection laws that do not apply to debit cards (such as the $50 liability if the card is stolen).

Although your bank may be voluntarily applying those rules to your debit card (such as allowing a "chargeback" - which can't be done since there was technically no charge to begin with, only a debit), no bank is required to comply with those rules.

See http://www.youngmoney.com/credit_debt/credit_basic s/040217_01 for a discussion on the differences between the two types of cards. In a nutshell: they are completely different and carrying a debit card is like carrying your entire bank account in your wallet.

The fact that your card may have "VISA" on it doesn't mean anything at all. VISA can be thought of as a manufacturer who has different products just as Ford has pickup trucks and mini-vans. The fact they both have "Ford" logos on them doesn't make them the same thing at all.

There is a reason banks push debit cards - it's in the best interest of the banks to do so.

How do I know these things? Just a few seconds of research on Google turned up the link above. Plus, I used to work at a company that wrote banking software and the business I own has a merchant account through which we accept MC, VISA, Discover, and Diner's Club.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[peter hoffman]

It's a typo. The correct spelling is "ouroboros" (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ouroboro s).

Re:What else? Hmmm

[mr_rattles]

The 'vibrate' feature is nice for the ladies but what about us men? I think the next step is to add a wang-sucking feature to cell phones. That combined with a camera and web access means I never have to actually use that "calling" feature that was released with phones way back to even the 80's. Talk about ancient technology, does anyone even use their phone for making calls anymore? wtf?

Re:What else? Hmmm

[db_uk]

Horizontal integration is not the same as a monopoly.

A monopoly would be the same as two vertical integrations resulting in one company controlling the three tiers of business: production distribution and supply alone. Sorry if that sounded too marxist for you all.

Horizontal integration is the take over of a business within a similar tier but a completely different industry.

e.g. a cell phone and car producer merging.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[collinl]

In some countries, Debit is better than credit.
-there are strong laws about consumer and to a lesser degree, merchant protection.
- Strong security, via 4 or 6 digit PINs with enforced 3 fails=locked card
- ubiqutious access that equals or betters Credit card access
- costs are lower for consumer and merchant (hence banks don't like it is as much)
- rules are country specific, not managed by committees inside Visa/Amex/MasterCard
- PIN = electronic signature (in those countries that use strong, non ANSI X.9-like debit protocols)

Downside = no 'over the phone' use of dedit facilities, due to the security problems of PIN disclosure

Re:What else? Hmmm

[kyojin the clown]

i already use a spare handset as a remote for my media box;

http://www.christersson.org/software.php

works really well, and i can bind any old arbitrary button or even macro. plus i can command the camera on the phone to take a photo from the other side of the world if i want, god knows why though.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[jacksonj04]

The UK is moving from the old signature to buy over to a PIN based system, so far with great success. My only gripe is that since I'm under 18, I have a piss-poor attempt at a debit card known as a Solo card. This is by the same people who run the ubiquitous Switch cards, yet I'm hard pushed to find places which accept Solo for purchases.

The downside for me is that even though I have a perfectly working debit card, next to nowhere I buy things actually accepts it.

I'm not sure about this no-CNP purchasing though. If I find somewhere online or over the phone who accepts Solo then it works fine without my PIN, because I have to go through the trauma of giving my card details.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[Punkrokkr]

Oroborous huh? Watch Red Dwarf much?

Re:What else? Hmmm

[megaversal]

Here in Japan, the way it works for SUICA (pay as you go, primarily used for train fare) is: walk up to vending machine, insert your card and add money to it (or purchase the card, add money to it). Since the vending machines are at every train station (which means everywhere), SUICA seems to end up getting used for lots of other things too. A lot of places now accept it as a form of payment (restaurants, etc), which is great in a society that uses 0 checks and very few use credit cards.

Non-pay-as-you-go cell phones are also almost always payed by cash. You receive a bill, go to the local convenience store, pay your bill. Almost all the convenience stores handle you paying your bill, and convenience stores are everywhere, so you still manage to avoid most of the hassle.

Based on those two things, but since I don't use a pay-as-you-go cell phone, I'm not positive, I believe there's also a system in place which involves heading to a local X store (maybe a convenience store, maybe a cell phone shop -- those are everywhere too), and stick a few extra bucks on your phone.

The key here is you don't send money directly to the company, you go to a local store to pay your bills for almost everything, which was a necessity in a society which, as mentioned above, isn't big on checks or credit cards.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[klack]

Toothbrush.

Re:What else? Hmmm

[Gambit-x7x]

Just to add to parent post, when buying with credit card you have a record where and when you spend you money, that might be benefited to analysis your habits and cut unneeded spending, etc... I realize you can keep a recites but let's be honest no body does...

Wow, they jumped from debit to credit

[Anonymous Crowhead]

They must have hired a whole slew of geniuses to make that jump.

Re:Wow, they jumped from debit to credit

[0xdeaddead]

You've never worked in the banking industry I can tell ;) You should see the process for developing a 'new' plastic card.. it can take upwards of *7* years...

Banks are so slow its no wonder they still live in COBOL & MVS days...

Re:Wow, they jumped from debit to credit

[LifesABeach]

Its not new; I did this same thing for a company 2 years ago, I still have the proof-of-concept code. The progarm could handle Debit, Credit, Gasoline, EBS, and Gift Cards. The solution was a combination of WAP, PERL, and Web Services. The message transaction protocol is ISO-8583 for the VISA folks. The boss liked the idea of a merchant that could still process sales transactions when the lights went out. My boss's main concern was transitting card data in the clear. Now its got me thinking, WAP and openSSL? An interesting idea...

razor

[brickballs]

I dont know about you all, but I could use an electric razor in mine.
Every so often im at work screwing off and I realize that I missed a spot. it'd be great to go and touch it up.

Re:razor

[Leroy_Brown242]

let me introduce you to my little friend.

The Bic Razor.

Re:razor

[nocomment]

and for the women who want to screw off at work see here.

Re:razor

[brickballs]

ben there, done that, got the cuts to prove it

(actualy, i use my bic nearly every day. this is for the days i forget)

Re:razor

[ciroknight]

How about a swiss army knife, car keys, and a can opener?

Oh, and a towel, just in case.

Re:razor

[Marko DeBeeste]

My ex wants a vibrator in hers.
Cell phone, that is.

Re:razor

[fsterman]

Towels should be at the top of your list.

Re:razor

[brickballs]

obgliatory, now that a cellphone with a built in towel has been mentioned:

"The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy has a few things to say on the subject of towels.

A towel, it says, is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitch hiker can have. Partly it has great practical value -- you can wrap it around you for warmth as you bound across the cold moons of Jaglan Beta; you can lie on it on the brilliant marble-sanded beaches of Santraginus V, inhaling the heady sea vapours; you can sleep under it beneath the stars which shine so redly on the desert world of Kakrafoon; use it to sail a mini raft down the slow heavy river Moth; wet it for use in hand-to-hand-combat; wrap it round your head to ward off noxious fumes or to avoid the gaze of the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal (a mindboggingly stupid animal, it assumes that if you can't see it, it can't see you -- daft as a bush, but very ravenous); you can wave your towel in emergencies as a distress signal, and of course dry yourself off with it if it still seems to be clean enough.

More importantly, a towel has immense psychological value. For some reason, if a strag (strag: non-hitch hiker) discovers that a hitch hiker has his towel with him, he will automatically assume that he is also in possession of a toothbrush, face flannel, soap, tin of biscuits, flask, compass, map, ball of string, gnat spray, wet weather gear, space suit etc., etc. Furthermore, the strag will then happily lend the hitch hiker any of these or a dozen other items that the hitch hiker might accidentally have "lost". What the strag will think is that any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the galaxy, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through, and still knows where his towel is is clearly a man to be reckoned with.

Hence a phrase which has passed into hitch hiking slang, as in "Hey, you sass that hoopy Ford Prefect? There's a frood who really knows where his towel is." (Sass: know, be aware of, meet, have sex with; hoopy: really together guy; frood: really amazingly together guy.)"

--Douglas Adams
The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Don't take a picture of yourself

[yotto]

Don't take a picture of yourself in the mirror, or anybody who sees it can get your credit card number!

What else?

[DrCode]

How about a corkscrew and bottle-opener.

Or an optical sensor on the bottom so it can be used as a mouse.

Re:What else?

[brickballs]

wait - optical mouse: cameraphone + bluetooth....

are you thinking what i'm thinking?

Re:What else?

[sconeu]

are you thinking what i'm thinking?

<PINKY>
I think so, Brain, but where do we get forty cheerleaders and a vat of Cheez-Whiz(tm)?

NARF!
</PINKY>

(Yeah, I know it's "pondering", not "thinking". Deal with it.)

Re:What else?

[yotto]

*are you thinking what i'm thinking?*

I think so, Brain, but where are we going to find rubber pants at this hour?

Seriously... No, I'm not thinking what you're thinking, unless you're thinking "What is brickballs thinking?"

Re:What else?

[Ryan Stortz]

What else can you add to a cell phone?

An easy way to add a second line? I'd need a few more hands to be able to count the number of people I know with two cell phones (a few have a pager aswell).

Re:What else?

[brickballs]

actualy, as often as those three words come to mind, this time it was more along the lines of a business venture that i was thinking of: scratch-free lens covers for camera phones

Re:What else?

[matth]

You can.. at least with some samsungs on the Verizon network... my phone has a place for 2 NAMs.. so I can have 2 lines and switch back and forth :)

Re:What else?

[ContractualObligatio]

Does it let you have both NAMs live at the same time? When I looked into this a while back (a good two years ago, mind) you could get phones or battery packs that would let you have two SIM (I'm UK based) cards. However, the problem was you had to switch between them - you couldn't have both activated at the same time. So it was impossible to be ready to receive both work and personal calls on the same phone, with separate numbers.

So unless you're saying this has changed, it seems to me like the mobile phone industry is missing out on a trick here. I want friends and family to be able to call me any time, I need a mobile phone for work, and I'm simply not willing to carry two separate phones with me. Luckily, I can use my work phone for personal use. There's probably plenty of people like me. So, while I was willing to pay rent and bills for a personal phone, and I did put a reasonable amount of effort into trying to find a suitable way to have a personal line added to my work phone, it turned out this wasn't an option.

I suspect that what you're saying still has the "only one number can be live at a time" limitation. But that said, if this has changed I'd really like to know.

Re:What else?

[Kesh]

*are you thinking what i'm thinking?*

I think so, Brain, but where are we going to find rubber pants at this hour?

Completely off-topic... but what the hell. :) I think you got two quotes mixed up:

"I think so, Brain, but where are we going to find rubber pants our size?"
"I think so, Brain, but were are we going to find a duck and a hose at this hour?"

Re:What else?

[hhghghghh]

All phones can handle this, so long as the two numbers belong to the same service provider, they can make sure calls end up on the same handset; just a matter of routing in the switch. Phonecalls ending up at two handets (whichever picks up first gets the call) are no problem either. They usually only offer it to corporate accounts though, or you'd have to resort to call forwarding (*21) which usually costs extra.

Re:What else?

[hhghghghh]

To elaborate a bit further; GSM even provides functionality to choose what line your outgoing call uses (*11) and handsets can have different numbers/lines for voice, data and fax. These advanced options are all within the same provider though. Personally, I like having 2 phones (though 1 doubles up as a PDA), so when one rings, I can be sure it's either business or personal.

Re:What else?

[tejaspatel]

What else can you add to a cell phone?

How about a VOIP client? so when you have Wifi access you can switch to VOIP service.

Also, how about a cordless phone for those expandable base stations? so when you are home you can pickup your home phone via your cell phone.

A garage door opener? ...

Re:What else?

[fbjon]

Redirect all calls.

Not sure what to with sms though.

Re:What else?

[bill_mcgonigle]

How about a VOIP client? so when you have Wifi access you can switch to VOIP service.

Also, how about a cordless phone for those expandable base stations? so when you are home you can pickup your home phone via your cell phone.

Do you live in Finland? In the US the service providers sell the phones and any feature that could threaten their potential revenue never makes it to the drawing board.

Re:What else?

[bill_mcgonigle]

(a few have a pager aswell)

I carry a pager because it works in lots of places the cell reception is spotty. I have no desire to do so, and if I could get a paging card for Treo I'd do it in a second. The Treo has a big beautiful display and the pager is 1-line mono 16 characters. And it's at least 50% of the volume of the Treo.

But the physics of the paging signal wins.

Re:What else?

[tejaspatel]

Do you live in Finland?

I am in the US as well. I agree, the cell phones suck here. I was recently shopping for a Sprint bluetooth phone and I was very disappointed when I found that only available phones come with crippled version of bluetooth. No full bluetooth support! It threatened their revenues because it could affect the "Vision Plan".

Re:What else?

[matth]

Yes you are correct.. as far as I know you can only still have one live at a time... you could forward the one to the other.. at least here in the states on Verizon the forwarded call would be "in-network" and wouldn't cost... you could still MAKE outgoing calls (which we pay for) by switchin NAM... you are right.. no good solution yet though.

What else indeed

[penix1]

"What else can you add to a cell phone?"

Wouldn't surprise me to see an automatic tampon remover....

B.

Re:What else indeed

[sTalking_Goat]

well the vibration feature already makes it a decent "sexual aid" so I suppose that not such a long shot.

They do need to make it self cleaning at some point. It bad enough when the guy next to you have Cheetos stains on his cell...

Re:What else indeed

[Tackhead]

> well the vibration feature already makes it a decent "sexual aid" so I suppose that not such a long shot.

A real catch-22:

Show off your latest ringtone once, and five minutes later, you can't hear it ring anymore.

Put the fuckin' thing on vibrate first, and nobody even tries to shove one up your ass.

Re:What else indeed

[Knetzar]

That's why my cell phone can vibrate when it rings :-)

Re:What else indeed

[SPY_jmr1]

Fuck that, just build a cell phone into a tampon... no more worrying about breaking it, and since they have plastic in them anyway, not much more waste...

Just make sure you change the sim card on time, ;P

Less debt and more convenience.

[rice_burners_suck]

There was another article I read somewhere... it was a system designed to increase convenience, decrease the chance of theft or credit card fraud...

Basically, it was a system to use giant limestone wheels from the island of Yap as credit cards. The giant wheels are difficult to counterfeit, and therefore will prevent theft through credit card fraud. These will be called credit rocks, rather than credit cards, and will take a crane to move, but many retailers believe that it will provide consumers with the added convenience that because the stones will be so difficult to move, they won't charge as much on their credit rocks as they do on their credit cards, and therefore we will have fewer people in debt.

Re:Less debt and more convenience.

[penix1]

"There was another article I read somewhere"

That would be "Wizard of ID" ;-)

B.

Re:Less debt and more convenience.

[brickballs]

Yea, but the problem is when you max it out: how are they going to cut it in half?

Re:Less debt and more convenience.

[rice_burners_suck]

With a jackhammer.

Good job /. editors

[jay-be-em]

Thanks for fixing the dupe samzenpus.

Re:Good job /. editors

[uberdave]

Dupes... samzenpus... "sames"-enpus... Get it?

Everything but the

[Umbral Blot]

I demand a portable sink attached to my phone. Wouldn't make it that much bulkier either. And as another plus it wouldn't affect battery life.

GUH!

[Vertdang]

This is the stupidest idea ever. Lets make it even easier to increase your debt beyond the "never going to get outta this" level, and right into the Indentured Servitude level.

Credit cards are blight on our society, people think that it's "free money" and don't check their spending habits until it is FAR too late.

Lets make it HARDER to use a credit card, not easier, before it collapses our economy.

Re:GUH!

[shawiiing]

Exactly! As someone who could be the poster child for why you shouldn't give colledge kids credit cards, this seems like a way to further destabalize conciencious spending among the youth...

Re:GUH!

[penix1]

"That can only be blamed on the consumers."

Bull...

Credit card companies preying on the financially challenged(TM) is to blame. A moron that has been unemployed for 6 months gets "You are pre-approved" credit card offers out the wazoo. Just what do you think that moron is going to do? Common sense simply dictates you don't give a moron a loaded gun like these offers are. He is likely to shoot himself in the foot.

B.

Re:GUH!

[Vertdang]

Someone without the foresight is often desperate. They don't have any money comming in, and they treat these offeres like their life-preserver until they can get a job/more money.

I once worked in a debt consolidation company trying to help people out of this mess... it's depressing seeing how these people are preyed on by these credit card companies. There's always the fine-print where if you make a payment a day late they jack up your interest rate to "dry-anal-rape" percent.

Re:GUH!

[Draveed]

Good god, have some personal responsibility. Citibank never put a gun to your head and ordered you to charge $1000 you can't pay back.

The responsibility for a credit card company is to provide you with a line of credit. They are not financial advisors. It is no one's fault but your own if you got into so much debt you can't pay it off.

Re:GUH!

[feepness]

Credit cards are blight on our society, people think that it's "free money" and don't check their spending habits until it is FAR too late.

For me it is free money. Whenever I get a 0 or 1% interest teaser I simply take it to the bank and put it in a 3-4% CD. It only comes out to a few hundred a year after taxes, but it's the principal of the thing.

Re:GUH!

[penix1]

Your sensitivity to the downtrodden is overwhelming.

Although it is technically accurate that nobody "forced" them it is NOT accurate that they weren't forced by circumstances.

We should remember your words when you become unemployed, on the verge of homelessness, and hungry. I am willing to bet that you change your tune as you get thousands of these "offers"...

The only difference between these predatory credit card companies and a Mafia loan shark is one is legal.

B.

Re:GUH!

[Draveed]

If I become homeless, it's because I deserve it. It is my fault, and only my fault, that I let my skill set degrade and I became unemployable. If I was truly desperate for money, I could take some menial job in fast food or cleaning. They don't pay much, but they pay. I could rent a room with my lousy pay instead of choosing to be homeless.

No it's not a good life, but I think you have forgotten you don't have a right to a good life. If someone who is "unemployed, on the verge of homelessness, and hungry" decides to hold on to their comfy life by running up a credit card debt, that's their choice. They must live with that consequence, not whine about how unfair it is for their creditor to expect to be paid back.

What else can you add to a cell phone?

[YrWrstNtmr]

How about clear sound. Talking to my daughter on her cell sounds like she's underwater.

Yeah, yeah....buy a better phone. BS. The tech for reasonably clear sound is trivial. Clean audio should be a base model feature.

Re: What else can you add to a cell phone?

[ArielMT]

What else can you add to a cell phone?

Do you really want to know? Oh wait, this is /. You're gonna find out whether you want to or not.

Alright damnit

[Epistax]

For years I've said I just want a fucking phone. I've changed my mind. If it makes me food, I'll buy it.

What else? Just three words...

[Jtheletter]

Carbonated Meat Dispenser!

Re:What else? Just three words...

[gstoddart]

Carbonated Meat Dispenser!

I'm terrified to think of why you'd want carbonated meat in the first place. :-P

Sigh

[MaroonWarrior71]

whatever happened to the good ol days when a phone was just a phone? I'll bet if they took all the extra crap out they could make the standard size of a cell phone that of the Moto Razr...

Re:Sigh

[NanoGator]

" I'll bet if they took all the extra crap out they could make the standard size of a cell phone that of the Moto Razr..."

So... what you really want is a Moto Razr without any interesting features.

Ermm... okay.

Re:Sigh

[Draveed]

They do have those sorts of phones. The Nokia 3120 comes to mind. The only fancy thing about it is bluetooth, and I bet if I looked harder I could find something even more stripped down.

Basic phones are out there, but they don't make news like cramming more features into a high end phone. What would be the point of a press release that says, "Nokia announces a new cell phone that can make phone calls."

Re:Sigh

[MaroonWarrior71]

No, that was just a side thought about how much extra stuff they put in the phones and how much room all those extra features take up in relation to the actual phone itself, if you can even call it that anymore.

Sure, it makes calls, but it's more of a media center/entertainment center in your pocket. Yeah, it's convinient, but it gives you poor quality of the extra features, like games. There's bad games out for cell phones, save for the phones made to be handheld game systems, but those are different. The cameras in cell phones get better and better, but they still pale in comparison to the actual digital cameras you can go buy. If I want a camera, I'll buy a camera, but don't try to pass of this thing that you say is a phone and a camera and this and that and the other thing, when it's just nowhere near as good as the thing that is just a camera, and is designed to be a camera.

I want a phone, so I buy a phone. Would you buy a laptop if all you wanted was an easy to use flash mp3 player? No. You wouldn't. Even though a laptop has all kinds of other great features and even plays your mp3's too.

It gets to be overkill at a certain point. like the watch in Spy Kids that does anything you can think of except tell time, because there was no room left for the watch after all the extras got put in. That's exactly what they are, extras, no regular, main features.

Re:Sigh

[NanoGator]

" If I want a camera, I'll buy a camera, but don't try to pass of this thing that you say is a phone and a camera and this and that and the other thing, when it's just nowhere near as good as the thing that is just a camera, and is designed to be a camera."

Err okay.

You're missing the point of having a camera in your phone. It's not to replace your digital camera. It's so you have something that takes pictures when your digital camera isn't around. The REASON they cram these things into phones is because they travel with people nearly every minute of every day. Few people can say that about their digital cameras, game boys, or ipods.
To put it another way: 640 by 480 > 0.

I honestly don't understand why you'd want a phone with less. But, then again, I have a ton of photos (some funny, some shocking) that I couldn't possibly have gotten with my digital camera. Why? Because I don't, for example, take it with me when I take the family out to eat. Damn I've got some funny photos of my 3yo nephew.

I'm shocked at how so many people on this site completely and utterly miss the point of cell phone integration. It really bugs me that I'm one of only a few people (that have spoken, anyway) that actually makes good geeky/nerdy use of these phones. I only have a piddly $130 phone, and because of it I don't even want a PDA. (Mainly because I carry my phone around, but I know I'd never carry the PDA around.)

Oh well, to each is own. I just wish people weren't so frickin negative to the point that they're missing out on something useful.

"That's exactly what they are, extras, no regular, main features."

So? Extra means +, not 0.

Re:Sigh

[QuaZar666]

Nokia 3120 does not have bluetooth. I used to own one and well its pretty basic of a phone. Now I do believe that Verizon has some phones that are even more basic than the 3120.

the perfect 'what else' feature

[downsize]

how about automatic /. FP!

Cellphones as entry tickets

[GillBates0]

What else can you add to a cell phone?

How about using cell phones as entry tickets to a Cricket match. From TFA:

The first match of the India-Australia cricket Test series in Bangalore next month will have hi-tech ticketing with the launch of 'Mobile-Ticketing,' a new service that enables cricket fans across the world to book the tickets online. But thats half the fun, since the tickets would be delivered directly to their mobile phones. the service is managed by Spice . The service delives the ticket as a special barcode which can then be scanned by a barcode reader. Sounds simple. Wired reported a similar story a while back.

More details here.

Re:Cellphones as entry tickets

[Orinthe]

This isn't a phone feature, or doesn't need to be, as described--just go to a web page, enter in some info, download a barcode to be displayed on the screeen.

Anyway, phones as tickets isn't really new (in countries with decent cell phones, that is, NOT the good old US of A).

Already in Spain

[paugq]

Oh my god, this already exists in Spain: Mobipay, Paybox. Little success, by the way.

In Hong Kong...

[rsborg]

Due to the popularity of the MTR/Octopus card, I've heard that some companies are trying to build this into their cellphones as an added benefit feature... the octopus is even better than a cc, since there's no signiature requried (authentication is simpler for user).

It'd be great, esp since you could easily type in your PIN (or better yet, vendor generated one-time tranasaction offset + PIN) and even authenticate more securely.

What will they think of next?

[msmercenary]

I discovered an awesome feature on my phone, in between the text messaging and e-mail and bluetooth and credit card and camera. It gives me the ability to hold a multimedia (voice only) conversation with another person. All I have to do is punch in some kind of locator code (similar to an IP address), and I can actually *speak* to the person.

It's amazing all of the nifty things they can pack into cell phones these days.

Re:What will they think of next?

[earnest murderer]

I discovered an awesome feature on my phone, in between the text messaging and e-mail and bluetooth and credit card and camera. It gives me the ability to hold a multimedia (voice only) conversation with another person. All I have to do is punch in some kind of locator code (similar to an IP address), and I can actually *speak* to the person.

It's amazing all of the nifty things they can pack into cell phones these days.

I wish my phone did that. I had to go out and buy another handset to do that.

It sounds like a joke, but I'm serious.

Re:What will they think of next?

[harish.babu]

How about a Toaster? Man I really miss it during the busy mornings!

a stronger motor

[milktoastman]

Personally, I'd like my cell to produce a stronger vibration when it rings in vibrate mode so I, um, can detect my incoming calls easier by the the greater, er, um...sensation.

Re:a stronger motor

[milktoastman]

And a longer, more consistent vibration per ring wouldn't hurt either.

Re:a stronger motor

[milktoastman]

I see...are you telling me my "lifestyle" is unhealthy...or did you reply to the wrong parent comment?

Re:a stronger motor

[milktoastman]

You can't win with this foolishness....

Re:a stronger motor

[imthesponge]

It's mixing threads again..

Talk to me when

[Lordplatypus]

Talk to me when they start including cell phones in my credit cards, now that will be interesting. Sir, this is your wallet, you haven't paid your bill yet.

What I would add

[c0d3h4x0r]

What else can you add to a cell phone?

I would like to see high-powered plastic explosives added to cell phones. That way when someone is being obnoxious on their phone in a public place, I can hit a button on my phone that will cause their phone to explode.

Re:What I would add

[c0d3h4x0r]

What the hell are you talking about?

Why not just add a wallet and a loudspeaker?

[aslate]

"I'm here, i've got everything you'll ever need to cripple me financially, rob me now!"

I'll keep my black-and-white screened text message and voice-only phone thank you. I'm happy if a thief says "What a crap phone" and doesn't want to nick it.

Re:Why not just add a wallet and a loudspeaker?

[brickballs]

Actualy, I had texting disabled for my account.
I was getting more umwanted messages than wanted ones. I called up cingular and asked if they could block certian numbers. they told me that they couldnt block only certian numbers, but they could disable it altogether.

no more 10c charges for me.

Solar Charger

[bryan8m]

A cellphone with a solar panel on one side would be a nice replacement for a battery. Leaving it on your dashboard would be a good place to get a charge. Environmentally friendly and convenient in most places.

Already exists - but I forgot where

[Kainaw]

When I was in the Marines, I was in some frozen country in northern England for about two weeks. I stayed pretty drunk the whole time as the beer there was far better than in the U.S. What I do remember is that cell phones worked on everything. Wanted to pay at McDonalds, ring up a number on the cell phone. Need a coke from the machine, ring up a number on the cell phone. A short hairy guy in a furry coat explained that they had one nationalized cell phone company, so it was easy to make a standard that everyone had to follow. In other countries, with competing cell phone companies, you can't get them to all agree on a standard for transactions.

The problem is that I hit well over 10 countries in three months at that time, so I have no clue where I was. I'm left wondering if I was just drunk enough to imagine that everyone was paying for stuff with their cell phones.

Re:Already exists - but I forgot where

[Anubis350]

It may be finland, nokia's headquarters, you're thinking of. I heard about this awhile back, so you may rest assured you didnt imagine it. I cant remember for certain if it was finland or not, but I believe it was.

Re:Already exists - but I forgot where

[Anubis350]

I've heard the joke, but thought the engineer poured sand around the fire and let it burn itself out. Doesnt effect the point of the joke, but it does work better :-P.

Re:Already exists - but I forgot where

[Kainaw]

That may very well be it. I remember starting in England with the Royal Marines, then going to Norway, then Sweden, then it is all a blur. I got a jacket along the way with a Polish tag in it. I mailed myself a case of beer from Germany. I flew home from Denmark. So, Finland is in the middle of all that.

I'm surprised you didn't crack on my typo. I was going to type "in Northern Europe". Then, I thought I'd say "off Northern England". I ended up saying "in Northern England." But, who'd be surprised to think a Yank is referring to 'country' in Northern England?

Re:Already exists - but I forgot where

[Anubis350]

I figured it was "vague and generalized" re:you're sig :-P

Re:Already exists - but I forgot where

[Anubis350]

heh, and made my own typo, meant "your".

Physical versus informational.

[Chiasmus_]

What else can you add to a cell phone?

You know, people are making a lot of jokes about adding physical components to cell phones - electric razors, can openers, etc. - but I think that what would be ideal is if I could have everything physical I needed in one pocket - like a souped-up version of a Swiss Army knife - and everything informational I needed in the other pocket.

Ideally, one day we'll carry a small "wallet PC" that acts as both a cell phone and a computer in general, and is a complete replacement for everything one might find in the wallet.

And, even more ideally, the Swiss will finally integrate a small light saber onto their knives.

um

[OmgTEHMATRICKS]

Uhhhh.. Am I the only one who finds this supremely stupid?

Re:um

[Omnieiunium]

I have to agree with you there. Unless they have some sort of complex system for when you lose your phone. That is the only problem with all this technology. If you lose one device, someone has access to everything about you and you are fairly screwed.

Re:um

[kaze dcat]

It's easy every transaction you need to input a PIN. Then when you lost your phone you report it to the service provider to freeze the account hopefully before someone can crack the PIN. It's even much safer than carrying real money with you.

What else....?

[efuseekay]

Don't.

Even.

Go.

There.

please add one more thing..

[solosaint]

keyless entry would be great, than i could leave my house, with no keys or wallet, just my phone!

stupid? Smart!

[efuseekay]

for the corporations that's it : More ways to make people spend money = good thing.

30% apr!!!!

[0xdeaddead]

Japanese credit is out of hand... Honestly they dont want or need it.. Although they are advertising Jcredit all over the place.. Sadly Im mostly illiterate so I dont fully understand the ads, but I did see the interest ammount! Tottaly INSANE!

Electronic Wallet

[Doc Ruby]

I can't believe it's taken this long for telcos to handle purchase transactions. I want my "phone" to show me cryptosigned invoices with OK/CANCEL buttons, putting them in my local database and the one at their server. They should bill me against my phone bill, and I should be able to download my bill into my spreadsheet to check it against my local database, and ask questions about my buying patterns. This would be much more convenient for me than carrying my credit "card" also, which is about the only reason I even carry a separate wallet. And it would be better for the credit company and vendors - how harsh a threat is cutting off my credit card for nonpayment, vs. cutting off my phone?

Now I'll just wait for my mailbox to fill up with "preapproved" mobile phones.

Re:What else can you add to a cell phone?

[Leroy_Brown242]

If you could have a clear call, on the base model, people wouldn't move up. Not as many, anyways.

hard drive & USB

[cerebralpc]

I'm sure others have said it - just put a hard drive in it!! (and a USB port)

Creditors

[Datamonstar]

Now you'll nver get them to stop calling you for late payments!

It's already there.

[zzztkf]

Actually I have used cell phone with buildin IC card base e-cash to buy breakfirst this morning. NTT docomo has relased last year. There are huge install base (more than ten million)

e-cash system is called EDY which has same technology base as Octopus.

When you buy Cell-phone with e-Cash, Java application to control is preloaded.

You just need activate it and ask store value at anyplace who has EDY terminal. You can also check how much you have through Java application. It's one of the advacntage over real plain IC card.

Another adavatage is by adding Japa application, it can handle more than one payment system. NTT docomo is in talk with them very long time. If they succeeded, I will have cell phone with e-cash, credit cards and metro path.

Re:It's already there.

[megaversal]

I think it's more important for the other cell phone providers to also have the same service. DoCoMo phones can have built-in SUICA, right? Why not au, Vodafone, Tuka, etc?

I like that I can use SUICA to buy train tickets, but also buy lunch at a curry restaurant in Akihabara. I wish I didn't have to have a separate card though. Someone should add it to my phone (au)!

Cookies

[shmlco]

Personally, I'd like a way to store electronic "cookies" so I don't need one of those stupid plastic affinity cards for every store I want to shop at just to get a good deal.

Or maybe it could just display the barcode on the screen... Hmmm.

Re:Cookies

[dgatwood]

I bet you could mock that up on a typical PDA. Get a bar code font, code in the numbers.... Probably five minutes of programming effort....

Re:Cookies

[merreborn]

In my experience, barcode readers don't work well on displays. The white:black ratios and reflectivity are all wrong.

Re:Cookies

[shmlco]

I bet you could mock that up on a typical PDA.

True, but I just remembered my phone has a camera in it. Hold on while I photograph the barcode on the card...

Re:What else can you add to a cell phone?

[rackhamh]

Clear sound doesn't sell cell phones. Features do. That and geek-chic appeal.

These recent comics pretty much sum it up:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/fun/zits.asp?date=20 050531
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/fun/zits.asp?date=20 050601

It's not that sound quality isn't important -- it's just that most people don't even *think* of it when they're comparing phones!

Does it look cool? Check. Bluetooth? Check. Games? Check. Web access? Check. SMS? Check.

I'll take it!

Also in Scandinavia

[xbsd]

Oh my god, this already exists in Spain: Mobipay, Paybox. Little success, by the way.

Yep, and people have been doing it for YEARS in Scandinavia

Re:Also in Scandinavia

[paugq]

Doing that in Spain for years, too. Sadly, I can't recall when Mobipay started its business.

Re:What else can you add to a cell phone?

[four_plane_color]

I second this.

I especially hate the fact that cell phone companies are ignoring sound quality in favor of adding BS gimmicks to sell their phones.

My friends mock my now discontinued and somewhat bulky Motorola Timeport. When I explain that I like the almost crystal clear sound and very readable green-on-black display I get dumb stares in return. Go figure.

sporkile?!

[0xdeaddead]

its on goats somewhere.... trust me!

Best Idea yet...

[CustSerAssassin]

I know the people in the northern United States will appreciate this one... of course there must be the technology in the car, but how about remote start/keyless entry built in?.. that way you can call work and tell them you'll be late, at the same time starting the vehicle in the snow covered driveway from the warmth of your living room.... One other thought came from my friend... how about working more on that teleporter technology? Put a locator in the phone that will "beam" you anywhere on the nationwide network... Sucks for those people on area wide plans... "transport anywhere in the nation from the tri-state area!"

Re:Best Idea yet...

[imthesponge]

Romulox's PDA can teleport.

A wallet

[Hektor_Troy]

And a key ring.

That way when it gets stolen, the thief has everything he needs, and not just my money.

Re:A wallet

[Wireless Joe]

Yes, yes. Everyone complains about the convergence of ID devices. Every time this is brought up, I think about my current wallet. If it was stolen, I'd have to call at least four different credit card companies, my bank, my grocery store, and the library. I'd also have to drive around town to get a new driver's license, healthcare card, warehouse membership card, etc. All of which could take me weeks to complete. If all my information was managed with one device, and implemented properly, one call to Cingular (or whoever managed the information) would have a replacement device overnighted to the address of my choice, and I'd be good to go by the next day.

This is not like the fingerprint-as-ID idea that is trotted out every six months or so where there is no chance of creating a new hash/ID/standard without super-gluing my fingertips; this could actually reduce the amount of time it took to get my life back up and running again.

Of course the operative phrase is implemented properly. Can someone please get working on that? Google, hello?

I'll tell you what we should add...

[qwerbus]

Swiss Army Knifes. I mean it. I won't be happy until I can prepare dinner with my cellphone and a fire. We'll be like regular cave men.

Re:I'll tell you what we should add...

[rale, the]

May aswell include a propane torch while you're at it.

Phew!

[rackhamh]

I'm so glad somebody implemented this. It was simply getting waaaay too cumbersome to carry around my cell phone and my credit card at the same time!

Service

[aceAzza]

I think when these things came out they were supposed to be phones. Since they haven't got that part yet, I think they should keep working on the whole "dropped calls" problem. My cell phone doesn't need to be a toaster, it just needs to be a reliable cell phone.

Why not a remote control?!

[orangepeel]

I've been waiting for *years* for a cell phone manufacturer to do the OBVIOUS and add a remote control function to a cell phone. Surely this happened 5 years ago, and I've just been missing them ever since, right? The keypad is aleady there! How much can an IR LED add to the cost of the cellphone?

I've always got my cellphone with me, but I'm always trying to figure out where I left the remote. Plus, I'd never need to buy obscure AAA batteries for the darn remote again, 'cause the cell phone's battery is rechargeable!

Re:Why not a remote control?!

[tektek]

And you thought those few people with a PDA changing public TV channels were annoying...

Re:Why not a remote control?!

[That's Unpossible!]

Ummm.

1. How will the phone know when you want to dial versus when you want to change the channel. Surely without it knowing this, or you having to flip a switch, you will be annoyed one way or the other. (Changing the channel when you want to dial, and vice versa.)

2. Cell phone keypads are designed to call people (and type messages, sometimes), and remotes are designed to control electronic devices. Other than the 10 digits, I don't see any correlation between the two devices. Why can't your landline phone change the channel? It also has 10 digits. Why can't I pick up the phone, dial #88 (that's "#TV") and just tell my TV what to do?

Just because two things share some things doesn't mean they'd be improved by combining them.

Re:Why not a remote control?!

[Kesh]

Get a PalmOS phone with a (strong enough) IR port, and Novii Remote. Done.

Re:Why not a remote control?!

[patio11]

If you're in Japan, you don't need a remote control for you cellphone because its already a portable television. I didn't bother buying that feature for myself because it drains batteries and I don't really watch that much TV, but the handset that had it (in addition to video calls, something I don't think is catching on anytime soon) cost a whopping... fifty bucks.

Re:Why not a remote control?!

[boojum.cat]

I've been waiting for *years* for a cell phone manufacturer to do the OBVIOUS and add a remote control function to a cell phone.

Why in the world would you want a remote control for a cell phone? Most people just keep theirs close by.

Re:Why not a remote control?!

[toddestan]

PDA's? Bah. That's what a HP48 is for!

Re:Why not a remote control?!

[illusion_2K]

Or the version for Nokia Smartphones. Works fine on my 6620.

Re:Why not a remote control?!

[Bushcat]

My old Sharp had this. Very powerful transmitter. Very handy for watching exactly what you want at airports without being too obvious about it.

Re:Why not a remote control?!

[zach.garrett]

I am not sure where you live, but in Japan many of the cellphones contain this functionality. The IR LED used to transfer contact information with other phones (similiar to exchanging business cards) can also be used as a remote for a TV using the preinstalled applets. The first time you use the applet you select which brand of TV you are using and the phone figures out the rest (and saves your preference for next use). I currently use a DoCoMo F900i (Fujitsu) phone, and I know for a fact that the N900i (NEC) phones have the same functionality. I assuming the newer models will continue this contain this functionality as well. Vodafone is in on this game somewhat, and AU is starting to produce phones with IR LEDs as well, so I would say it will not be long before all phones have them.

Re:Why not a remote control?!

[prator]

Currently there are 8 replies to your post, and no one says anything about you calling AAA batteries "obscure"! I think you would have trouble finding any sort of general purpose retail store that doesn't carry AAAs.

-prator

Re:Why not a remote control?!

[ag0ny]

Most Japanese phones already come with a small Java application to turn the phone into a remote control. My old phone had this function, and the new one does too. The application in both phones shows a list of well-known TV/video manufacturers to choose from (I guess each company uses its own IR codes/protocols/whatever). It's not a feature that I use often because I don't watch much TV lately.

In any case, if your phone doesn't come with a remote control applet, you can always download one (links in Japanese).

Re:Why not a remote control?!

[jdubois79]

Actually, docomo offers this. Almost all japanese phones have an IR port for transmitting data (schedules, email, pictures, etc) from one phone to another. The 900i series also comes with a java app to control the TV and stereo. Even works with cable! =)

You asked...

[cyrix]

What else can you add to a cell phone?" A Xboxstatiolution 900?

what else to add

[Tumbleweed]

Well, adding laser pointers to cellphones would combine the two most-irritating things about going to a movie, so, that's a good option. Perhaps a ringtone of a baby crying could be the third. And then speakerphone capability on ALL cellphones. Yes, the Axis of Annoyance(tm)!

Lessee...how about a tazer? That'd be useful for dealing with members of the Axis of Annoyance(tm). Blood sugar monitor for diabetics (though I think at least one Korean phone already has that).

What I'd _really_ like to see is the ability to make a phone go into vibrate-only mode, and make it legal in the U.S. to do so (cellphone jammers are apparently illegal here, I think). That way you wouldn't have to turn them OFF in a theatre or restaurant; it gets done FOR you. Oh yeah, that would be my #1 feature, for sure. Even more than improved call quality.

Re:what else to add

[t_allardyce]

Well it might be illigal to jam cell phones in your cinema or theatre, but no-one said anything about fitting wire mesh in stratigic parts of the walls.. Someone really should start up a business doing that.

Re:what else to add

[Keruo]

> What I'd _really_ like to see is the ability to make a phone go into vibrate-only mode

This is called location awareness, and it's included in 4G specifications.
When you enter hospital, theatre etc. the phone will automatically switch to the defined mode of that area.

Re:what else to add

[QBasicer]

I'd really like to be able to have my ringers on a time basis.

From 11PM-7AM, silent
From 7AM-8:30AM, ring
From 8:30-11:30 vibe
From 11:30-12:15 ring
From 12:15-3:00 vibe
From 3:00-11:00 ring

That way I don't have to keep frigging with my phone between classes.

What else?

[MightyMartian]

What else can you add to a cell phone?

Have every once of credit you have screwed because some guy was sitting around scanning the cell bands.

Re:What else can you add to a cell phone?

[YrWrstNtmr]

Clear sound doesn't sell cell phones. Features do. That and geek-chic appeal.

How far we've fallen in deference to the marketing gods
Remember the Sprint(?) ads? "So clear, you can hear a pin drop." (not necessarily true, but at least they tried)

Well..

[Caedar]

In the future, the quip "It has everything except the kitchen sink" will become obsolete because everyone will have one on their cell phone.

A Challenge?

[Gamzarme]

What else can you add to a cell phone?

Is this a challenge to Slashdot readers? hehe..

Convergence

[xixax]

Convergence in this area is something i have been expecting for a while now. The SIM in my phone has more capcity than my credit card, and I do not see why I need to carry a swag of plastic shards. We've already seen phone accounts being used for credit; call the vending machine and have the purchase added to you next phone bill. The phone companies already have the infrastructure to track and manage many small transactions.

what else can you add to a cell phone?

[porky_pig_jr]

a small explosive device, to start with. then move to a larger explosive device.

Universal remote!

[genericacct]

I would love to have fully programmable IR in my phone. Beam device setup info (and address book) from a computer, and be able to control my home theater.

It doesn't need to be a camera or PDA, but a decent calendar, to do list, and remote would be nice.

Re:Universal remote!

[genericacct]

Mod the similar post above up. I didn't see it until after I wrote mine.

Gee... all it needs now is a dildo

[JenovaSynthesis]

Add a dildo and the ability for it to take a sh!t for me and I'll have the perfect cell phone.

Anyone else miss the days when a phone was just a phone?

What will inevitably be added....

[tamrood]

A heads-up display adaptor, several gig of storage, and full computing, media, GPS and Internet functionality with voice command.

Of course a few years later, the neural implants will make all this primitive stuff obsolete, anyway.

Missing feature: reliable communications

[owlmon]

"... What else can you add to a cell phone?"

How about the ability to complete a phone call?

About a year ago, I upgraded my ancient Startac to the latest model offered by Verizon. I quickly discovered two locations in my town where the new phone failed to place a call, yet the Startac manages to do so. I visit these two places often, so I returned the new phone. I am using the Startac again.

I asked several Verizon reps which of their phones offers the best RF performance. Each rep stated that all of the new phones are the same.

I cannot accept that a shitty camera and an irritating ringtone are more important features than a good radio.

What else?

[ScrewMaster]

What else can you add to a cell phone?

A tactical nuclear device?

How about...

[Fortran IV]

...a finite improbability generator, so that people with cell phones in theaters and restaurants can be really annoying?

What else can you add to a cell phone?

[Eric Smith]

How about building an ATM machine into the phone? Then when I need $20 to buy a burger, fries, and a shake at a joint that doesn't take plastic, I just swipe my ATM card on the phone, enter the PIN, and out pops a fresh new $20 bill. I suppose the phone would have to be a bit bigger to contain a stack of $20 bills, and I'd have to take it in to be refilled from time to time. Maybe they could just work out a deal with the US Bureau of Printing and Engraving to include blank money and print it on the fly. That way you could get all denominations.

Of course, it would need some serious DRM.

Maybe it's too much to expect this to be built into a phone, but I'll bet they could make it in a package that would fit a DIN-size car stereo location. That would be nearly as convenient.

re: other features that could be added

[SkOink]

How about a continuous vibration mode? :)

What problem is this solving?

[NineNine]

Like any business idea, the first question should always be, "What itch does this business scratch"? And honestly, I can't figure this out. A credit card is a tiny size of a cell phone, and actually, you don't even need a physical card to use one. They're already universally accepted. So could this *possibly* be any small kind of improvement that would make it a viable product?

Re:What problem is this solving?

[rcastro0]

A credit card is a tiny size of a cell phone, and actually, you don't even need a physical card to use one. They're already universally accepted.

Two points.

First, no matter how small it is, it is too large compared to softtware inside the cell phone, if you will be carrying a cell phone anyway.

Second, credit/debit cards are far from universally accepted. The beauty of a cell phone is that it can be both the credit card and the card terminal, meaning it can both be charged and charge. You may one day transfer money from your cell phone to a friends cell phone, whether you two are standing next to each other on the sidewalk, or one hundred miles apart.

Cheese

[boris_the_hacker]

I don't think a cell phone will be complete without cheese.

Let me hack one person's cc cell phone

[Adult film producer]

And that would be... Paris Hilton :-) She's gotta have one of those uber-platinum cards... Hello thinkgeek.com!

What else

[davez0r]

Breasts?

I know I wasn't the only one thinking it.

Wouldn't work

[interstellar_donkey]

Bank: Hello, Ms. Hilton? This is megabank. I'm calling because of some very unusual credit card activity. I see a $1,400 purchase from something called "thinkgeek". According to our records, for the last five years all of your purchases have been from liquor stores and trashy lingerie shops. Did you make the purchase from this "thinkgeek"?

Paris: Wha f*ck b*tch motherf*cker who? I can buy (hic) and sell you b*tch

Bank: Thank you Ms. Hilton. We'll cancel the charge immediatly.

What can you add?

[TodPunk]

I'd personally like to see projectile weapons mixed into my cell phones. It's annoying to have to carry a cell phone and a hefty hand gun. I'd rather have it all in one, you know? I'm a man of convenience.

How would that effect my geek cred, though?

i was wondering when we would see this

[drew]

i've been watching for this to happen for a while now. i worked for a company that wanted to do this several years ago. the technology has been around to handle this on the phone side for a while now. the problem has always been finding a way to integrate it with the millions of existing POS terminals already out there, which we eventually gave up on. it looks like i was right back then- rather than trying to figure out how to work with the existing systems, this was going to have to wait until somebody with big enough pockets to roll out all new POS terminals got involved. i suspect that it will be wuite a while before this is available here in the US- the cost involved in rolling out new POS terminals across the country here would be ginormous.

Thanks, but no thanks!

[vhogemann]

I don't want to concentrate all my life on a single device. Too many bad things can happen...

- Forget it at home
- Get robbed
- Batteries go dead
- Break

Things like credit and debit cards, keys and passwords, must be placed on reliable, fail-safe, places. Magnetic cards and Smart cards are good choices... a cellphone is not!

More appropriate Vibrator use

[quink]

This would accord with the habits of so many users!

Re:What else can you add to a cell phone?

[mpapet]

Funny you should say that. Cell phones have the capacity to carry electronic cash. The sim card has more than enough security-related stuff to do it.

It would work something like this:
-Dial a number, machine voice asks you to enter the amount you want loaded onto the phone.
-Punch 20 for $20.00 machine voice confirms $20 and asks for PIN. $20 is now "on" your cell phone.
-A payments back-end handles the messy transaction clearing with the bank.

Merchant Transaction:
-Each merchant has their own phone number to call to make a transaction. Clerk enters your phone number hits "ok".
-Server waits for you to dial in. Can authenticate your phone well because of the SIM capabilities.
-Checks balance, verifies payment amount and asks for PIN.
-Deducts what the merchant's POS requests.

Basically takes the same payments backend as itunes. No Visa/Mastercard necessary, but you still have to get on the bank's transaction clearing.

There's POS -software- integration, but you would start with the big, centralized POS retailers who can pull this off. No POS hardware changes anyway.

I can't believe I'm the first one to think of this though. The idiots at Cingular, T-Mobile are too big and slow to see how close they are to a fscking gold-mine. I wonder if anyone can tell me if it's possible to do it without some cooperation from them. (needs crypto)

Could Add

[prelelat]

"What else can you add to a cell phone?"

A Vibrator.... Oh wait...

Paying for parking in New Zealand

[valdean]

Vodafone in New Zealand has a program called TXT-a-Park that allows Kiwis to pay parking meters with a cell phone. Although there is a 50 cent surcharge, it's useful if you don't have change.

as if....

[KillShill]

there isn't enough incentive for people to mug cell phone users now.

perhaps they can include a mini-mace dispenser or a sharp pointy object. or an ear piercing alarm that can only be turned off with a personal code (though they can always disassemble the batteries... perhaps if the batteries aren't easily replaced).

Add an "I can't find a cell" alarm for when...

[antispam_ben]

... for when you walk into a structure intentionally shielded against cell phone communications. (I don't have a cellphone, as a true nerd I don't feel the need to talk to people that much) Just so you'll know what to do if you need to use a phone real fast...

It seems I've been in this thread before. Actually I'm sure I've made this same point before. Is there a dejaslashdot.com? I know, search /. in messages...

Well it might be illigal to jam cell phones in your cinema or theatre, but no-one said anything about fitting wire mesh in stratigic parts of the walls..

That would include... well, should I really be telling anyone how to make a Faraday shield, considering...

Someone really should start up a business doing that.

considering the possible liability? IANAL but I wouldn't want to do that (it seems it could be legally similar enough to jamming, in spite of the fact that nothing is transmitted), to (Dramatic Enactment follows) have a movie showing be interrupted by a screaming woman saying "HELP! DOES ANYONE HAVE A CELL PHONE? My husband is having a HEART ATTACK and my GODDAMN CELL PHONE DOESN'T WORK!" Time could be lost before figuring out that NO cell phone works in the theater and the management figures out to call for help. The movie showing gets ruined for everyone.

Re:Add an "I can't find a cell" alarm for when...

[Tumbleweed]

>>The movie showing gets ruined for everyone.

>Especially the guy having a heart attack...

Yeah, well, fuck that guy. I don't see his insurance company reimbursing everyone who paid $9 for the movie and another $9 for a soda and nachos.

Re:Add an "I can't find a cell" alarm for when...

[megrims]

Seriously man, the Soda and nachos are still good. Take them home with you. As for the movie, I suspect if you talked to the manager, he'd give you the 9 dollars back.

Re:Add an "I can't find a cell" alarm for when...

[t_allardyce]

Believe it or not most cinemas have these things called 'land lines' where the phone is connected by a wire to the local exchange. Its a new system that allows them to by-pass jamming or farady cages..

Of course the cage is a solution to the symptoms not the problem, i'm guessing that in about 4 years cinemas will have little lock boxes where you have to leave your phone because people will use it to record the film. Its just so unjust that that you can get 5-10 for pointing a camera at the screen but if you play the crazy-frog ring tone at full volume you'll just get thrown out, im all for the death penalty for bad ring-tones.

Re:Add an "I can't find a cell" alarm for when...

[t_allardyce]

Its far better to sue the cinema for the stress you endured witnessing the heart attack and missing the film - you could have chocked on your food in shock!!

not that new...

[bokane]

This has been going on, in a sense, in China for a while. There, many cellphones (e.g. those on the Shenzhouxing and Donggan-Didai plans, and maybe the Quanqiutong plan as well) work by means of pre-paid cards; you can order things online, pay for QQ membership, or join websites by inputting your cellphone number and allowing them to debit your phone balance for the amount.

What about improving existing features?

[Orinthe]

This doesn't apply as much to NTT DoCoMo, but in general more features are not what cell phones need (though they're all fine and good).

The real thing cell phones need is interface designers for their software. I have to click at least half a dozen buttons and wait for my phone to connect to the internet to get anywhere near sending an email.

With my Japanese phone (from AU by KDDI) one button got me into my email menu, instantly. If I didn't want to type in an address I could select someone from my address book incredibly easily, or I could find them in my address book first (also just one click from anywhere!) and then click to email them.

Compare that to my Sprint PCS phone--Menu, Web (wait 10 seconds to connect) Messaging (wait to load) Email (wait) PCS Mail (wait) New Message (wait) before I can even start typing anything in. Terrible!

Not to even mention the disgustingly old phones they're pawning off on us here in the US. I was looking at a new Sony Ericsson thinking "gee, this isn't bad, it's about the same phone I got for free with my service in Japan" (this was about 8 months earlier. only $30 cancellation fee, btw, so you can't say that they pay for the expensive phones by locking you in to the service). Then I realized it was being sold for FOUR HUNDRED US DOLLARS. It's absurd!

Phone

[__aahlyu4518]

With all these features cramped into 1 device (you can't really call it a phone anymore), you lose 20 gadgets, and now also your creditcard and debitcard, when it gets stolen/lost/broken. Not so smart(phone).

Also... do these things still have the ability to ehmm... just call someone?

SecurIDs for 2FA; Phone of 5 Senses

[Ararat]

I wonder what proportion of /. readers are carrying SecurIDs or some other OTP token for two-factor authentication (2FA) at work? At least in Japan, NTT DoCoMo i-appi phones have had SecurID token-emulation software available for a couple of years. (This is the same one-time password (OTP) app that RSA offers in the US and elsewhere for PDAs, Blackberries, and various Ericsson and Nokia mobile phones.) 2FA, like everything else, comes packaged in incrimentally stronger or weaker form-factors. "Soft-tokens" are at one end of the 2FA spectrum, since they rely upon the token-holder for physical and virtual security, while sealed tamper-resistant hardware tokens are at the other. It seems entirely possible to more securely engineer the 2FA code into the phone's internal (GSM?) chip, merging the convenience of phone-based 2FA with the security of tamper-resistant hardware. (I noticed that the guys at the DoCoMo US Labs carry SecurID hardware fobs -- which is probably appropriate, given the resources they protect -- but many of us could safely switch to phone-hosted OTP tokens, even now.) One of the FAQs on the DoCoMO Labs website offered an extraordinary vision in its description of the company's R&D: "DoCoMo aims to strengthen people's five physical senses and expand their activities by coordinating data that is collected from information sources located everywhere, including a person's own body, and connected 24 hours a day to a network. DoCoMo R&D goes beyond the boundaries of a mobile operator to include such areas as multi-sensory communications, alter-ego interface technology, bio authentication technology, agent technology, super reality communications technology, and sensor network technology. By the acquisition of limitless knowledge, DoCoMo aims to lay a path for realizing a prosperous world." A phone for five senses?! Now that's an expansive baseline! For those enchanted by the vision, Wiley just published the DoCoMo US Labs's first book. For $120, you can plumb the depths of DoCoMo's R&D in, "Next Generation Mobile Systems: 3G & Beyond," edited by Minoru Etoh.

And Slovenia

[goranb]

In the form of Moneta...

Didn't we already cover this seven months ago?

[timyang]

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/03/225 7205&tid=100&tid=218

how does it work?

[krunk4ever]

so how does it exactly work? is there a magnetic strip on the cellfone itself? is there an RFID tag which the stores have a system to scan it with? or is there a totally new system such that you can beam the credit card info to the system, or give the clerk your cell fone # and you can enter a pin of some sort.

also, can i use any credit card, or only the credit provided by my cell phone company? i mean, i'd rather carry my 5% rewards card, than to carry less cards.

Homer Simpson said it best...

[Anti Frozt]

"And look at this... A cheese grater!"

Being Careful

[managerialslime]

How is it debt if it's paid off every month?

I prefer using a credit card over a debit card because I get to use the credit card co's money for (up to) 30 days. With a debit card, the transaction is immediate. I'd rather earn a little interest on my money before handing it over. ... air miles ... A debit card might be what works for you, but I think a wisely used credit card can be more beneficial.

As someone with many years of experience in credit card direct marketing, my eyes used to glisten every time a sentiment such as the one above is expressed. Just as one lottery winner makes it easy to sell lots of lottery tickets to the general population, your story is great for selling plastic to the masses.

Many (most?) credit card companies depend that

o you don't pay attention to their changing fine print periodically tossed out with other junk mail

o as a fallible human, you will eventually pay a bill late

o or that a payment will take too long to get through the postal system

Not today, not tomorrow, but eventually the day comes and .... BAM!

A late payment translates to

o BAM!: late fees of between $20 and $70

then

o BAM!: your no-fee free annual membership now costs $50

then

o BAM!: your low teaser interest rate shoots from 6.99% to 24.99%

and

o BAM!: All of your "savings" by using the float are wiped out as you spend your time (and what is that worth) to surf the web for a better card, apply, and then eventually deal with moving any automatic payments you may have to the new card. (Look at all the pr0n surfing time you lose!)

Yes, I have a "points" card to earn those benefits, (just got back from a trip to Australia...now those are miles that add up), but in addition to maintaining a zero balance, I also send out a small payment on the first of every month to make sure (a) the credit card company NEVER has me noted as a late payor and (b) the statement that arrives comes with a small credit balance.

Loss of float you say? Pay $50 at the beginning of the month that they have use of for 2 weeks out of the month. Your loss of interest (at 5% annually ) is $1.25 PER YEAR.

Re:Being Careful

[shreak]

I understand you were talking about people who don't pay attention to those details but...

We've been riding 0% and 2+% cashback now for over 3 years.

Both cars and a number of appliances still sit on credit a credit card account (with enough savings in the bank/CDs to pay them off right now)

We still get 2-3 0% offers each DAY. So when the one we're on is ready to age, we just hop on to one that's 12+ months out.

Here's my strategy to your scenarios:

o you don't pay attention to their changing fine print periodically tossed out with other junk mail

Pay attention to your bill! Not running this game is no excuse for ignoring the fine print on your credit cards. You should always know what your current situation is with your credit provider. Especially credit you use every day.

o as a fallible human, you will eventually pay a bill late

Don't pay late, ever. Why should you? You have the money in the bank right? Besides, being a good payer is how you keep those 0% cards rolling in. They want you because your credit is EXCELLENT. Each one is hopeing to win the lottery and catch that perfect customer. They all lose.

o or that a payment will take too long to get through the postal system

BS. Pay when the bill arrives and this will never be a problem. If they do charge you a late fee (because they are crooked or because you were late that ONE time...) call them and say "take it off please" and they will. If they don't say "cancel please" then they will.

Not today, not tomorrow, but eventually the day comes and .... BAM!

Three years, no BAM.

o BAM!: All of your "savings" by using the float are wiped out as you spend your time (and what is that worth) to surf the web for a better card, apply, and then eventually deal with moving any automatic payments you may have to the new card. (Look at all the pr0n surfing time you lose!)

Sure. if you're credit's not good enough to have the CC companies hammering on your door to GIVE you 0% PLEASE, then don't bother with this game. =Shreak

Re:Being Careful

[legojenn]

BS. Pay when the bill arrives and this will never be a problem. If they do charge you a late fee (because they are crooked or because you were late that ONE time...) call them and say "take it off please" and they will. If they don't say "cancel please" then they will.

I owe you a meal or a drink. I have a US store credit card. A mail problem caused a delay. (Well, I was late mailing the envelope, the money order sat on my desk for 3 weeks). Anyhow, there was a $25 late fee. Considering the balance on the card was $50, it was excessive. I called, asked for it to be removed, and "Robert is one your parent's brothers" or something like that, the charge was reversed.

Thanks!

Lame feature...

[PinkFreud]

The other party actually has to respond.

Re:Lame feature...

[jeffmeden]

There's always the option for an automated response from the recipient, followed by an opportunity to send a audio message that will be queued for later use.

Re:Lame feature...

[cpeterso]

Actually, my phone always me to time-shift my audio messages.